[00:00:04]
>> I mean one of the fans here who joined us today Michael I know since the opening when he was part of a group that whole is still whole philosophy off and it's in the it's been heard by this group of people made it possible from up there as well what was all of that the beginning that started in pool night here of Georgia Tech where.

[00:00:34]
Really a community all this small also all especially interested with its roots and your lies to you were the same conference as some of them in Europe and that many of these of the. But there was a guest joining us my guest is a professor at the Institute for the business of marriage studies to give us a view of the day.

[00:00:59]
He's currently a visiting scholar at the Center for most of your songs at the University of Pittsburgh and that may be possible to bring him here. But there we did this. On the area that this is a couple of days as well at the intersection between a lot of the coffee yourself the parking lot the kid was sculpting the space of actually.

[00:01:31]
Explain human. Integrating and make. This kid he is with socks subsequently has been published this book covers the all of the big blocks of real science scope of neuroscience the you and and percent of normal friends who are going to listen to Never. And almost anymore. He is editor.

[00:02:00]
Of several books some of this. Was the past president of the International Association for this very studies who are 4 or 6 and there's a board member here it's a it's a student support team. He published a large number of articles in the area in the earliest ranging from credit record for example they.

[00:02:30]
Should. Last a lot of your paper and before so if you're here and you are so it would be nice if you're all could join me in welcoming here with all of us look really really looking forward to. Well thank you so much Michael and also Carol color trouble for inviting me and I'd like also here to acknowledge.

[00:03:00]
The Center for Philosophy of Science at University of Pittsburgh who invited me as a visiting fellow for the fall making it indeed possible to to join you here or tonight for a talk on I guess or quite odd topic here on the campus of Georgia Tech. What I hope to do today is to show you what are the challenges but also options perhaps for into this but I recall aberration in the binaries integration between different fields so I'm approaching the topic of neuro theology the integration of cognitive neuroscience and religion just as an example which I think helps to.

[00:03:46]
To articulate what are the steps that typically are taking. In case different disciplines are aiming to collaborate and what are the challenges what are all sort of concerns related to such an interdisciplinary integration because even though I work at this rate that is binaries studies have been really invested in it and I think we should not blind ourselves against the risks in involved in that.

[00:04:17]
So this picture shows you and I guess most of you have recognized the Dalai Lama looking at the subject of meditating subject being put into an Afro-American scanner which in a way is quite free presented if as we will learn over the next 45 minutes. For newer theological research.

[00:04:38]
Subjects being put in a scanner or doing meditation or praying a practice is in many cases Eastern so Buddhist. Monks were instance of people that have a long expertise in meditation along those lines. And then with a keen interest on what actually can theology or of the operationalized in terms of.

[00:05:08]
Religious practice what does it bring what does it bring what does it show at the level of the brain and also what does a chill at other indicators like health wellbeing cognitive processes like attention that's. Just a small background indeed my thesis was also on this kind of interdisciplinary intersection between philosophy cognitive neuroscience and hermeneutics.

[00:05:36]
Into this but now it is already mentioned I'm also part of a neuro coach as a newer aesthetics or a research group at the University of Amsterdam where we are particularly interested in the interaction between the brain and the world for which we've coined the term world being to bring which has been the topic of several conferences the 1st few in Amsterdam and unfortunately.

[00:06:02]
The 3rd one is in our Who's which I will miss because I'm here. My talk in this largely of 3 sections for us a little bit of a background both on into this area integration and neural theology then I am walking you through a set of new theological.

[00:06:23]
Steps towards newer neuro theology which I have coined Nur a few cation assumptions what does it take to neuro fire to enable a particular topic to be approached by the methods and theories of neuroscience and the 3rd section is raising some concerns and challenges Apparently the world itself has been challenging for me.

[00:06:50]
Right as you probably know we've had in 1900 the decade of the brain which really capers per to Crocket if neuroscience cognitive neuroscience itself being coined in the backseat of a cap in 1970 like neuro science now expanding into the world of cognition of emotions etc and gradually there is this field has established itself as a new interdisciplinary an expert on it included every new topics after the decade of the Prain people hoped that there would be a continuation but then really venturing out in other areas of like research academic research or the areas of problems and so there was an initiative for a decade of the mind in which potentially also humanities and social sciences could play.

[00:07:49]
An important role however that. Suggestion was not followed up instead money has been growing in recent years 2 to multi 1000000000 projects a European and an American one which are in a way even more focused on the brain on the neuro science and a computational implementation of what we've gathered in terms of knowledge about the brain so the idea of the proposal for a decade of the mind included topics like healing and protecting minds like think about mental health issues.

[00:08:31]
Where I think apart from Carpenter science or medicine we could also think about social sciences because including social A G anthropology. And reaching the problems of cognitive neuroscience could have included humanities but unfortunately as mentioned the decade of the. Mine never made it none the less given the is expansion of cognitive neuroscience over the years.

[00:09:00]
Ever more disciplines including the humanities and social sciences have made what is called a neuro turn I've turned to neuro science to integrate their methods and concepts. To a lesser extent cognitive neuroscience has also taken up questions and topics provided by these other disciplines like the social sciences and humanities.

[00:09:26]
So there are also some of this volume on the newer scientific turn order newer turn even talk about the ubiquitous adoption by multiple disciplines. And indeed if we are looking at a list though not flawless list but over if we are looking at the list of neural disciplines arranged in the order of appearance so we see Thomas Willis current a word neurology in 6081 and then you can see here like.

[00:10:01]
In the 2nd half of 19th century neighboring disciplines like from what neuro science are neurobiology to pathology is perhaps not that much of a stretch physiology and psychology Also it's not that much of a threat so we would call this whole range. Of examples of narrow into this Pinera the sort of disciplines that are relatively closed to neurology and the 1st really somewhat surprising example is neuro theology where a humanities discipline theology has been integrated or is seeking integration with neural science already in 1962 and then it takes until well new really follow G. is about animal behavior Well looking at animal behavior like rats and monkeys has been.

[00:10:55]
Prevalent in Crockett of science and neurobiology for us for a while so maybe. Maybe that only. The birth of a new era politics another example of why interdisciplinary T. can be seen. I'll get back to a newer theology and its birth in 162 but I want to mention that of course the interest in the brain and its relation to religion has been with us for if we're just focusing now on a Western tradition for many many centuries indeed Hippocratic text on the Divine disease a mob of some throw from the 4th century B.C. tries to reject a hypothesis is that.

[00:11:49]
The seas yours. Involuntary speech falling behavior associated in our terms with epilepsy was back then consider to be a divine madness caused by a divine intervention and some demon haunting a person. In contrast to that divine or hypothesis about the divine nature of the sacred disease this Hippocratic doctor tells you this is not at all a matter of divine intervention there it runs in the families and if if it would be divine it would perhaps be spread much more widely through a population so we have to look at explanation that centers that focuses on the brain because the brain as this Hippocratic doctor says is the origin of emotions of our speech of our vision of the imaginations and.

[00:12:54]
As you probably know the Hippocratic thought that there were 4 different humors or. Fluids that correct arise someone's personality but also functioning of the brain and this Hippocratic doctor said Well if there is too much moisture in the brain everything gets like in flux things are getting a little bit chaotic so neither the sight or hearing can be addressed and the tongue speaks in accordance with the sight and hearing so jibberish going in chaotic phrases instead of believing that there is some kind of a deal a demon that speaks through the tongue of the unhappy victim and even the Hippocratic Dr obvious an empirical hypothesis is considering that animals suffer from the same condition as we buy it now also know that they do they suffer cancer from epilepsy and he said just well if you will cut up cut open the head of a goat suffering from a sees your you will note that at that very moment the its brain will be 2 more east.

[00:14:06]
I'm not sure whether you can see this this early print of hypocrite is but here is someone drilling a hole in the score of someone that we know that these cases of trepidation were quite prevalent not just in Greek antique with you but really thousands of years before that.

[00:14:25]
In other words the real connection between brain and religion has been around even before far before 962 so what happened in 1962 the novelist Alice Huxley in his final novel introduces their person Dr Robert and he is the one actually that talks about that mentions. Neural theology. As and I'm quoting.

[00:15:00]
I see now what the old Roger was talking about you can't be a good economist unless you're also a good psychologist so this is 9062 far before behavioral it economics was on the rise. Continue to quote are a good engineer without being the right kind of metaphysician And don't forget about the other sciences said Dr Robert pharmacology social the physiology not to mention pure and applied outhaul or G 30 knowledge of the self neuro theology not to chemistry micro mysticism store these are like mushrooms my missis is and so this we are in the midst of the sixty's of calls and others Huxley who wrote also the doors of perception.

[00:15:46]
World opens several doors to alternative perceptions among which for him new or theology was one. After this 1st mentioning of your theology and it is novel it took another 20 odd years for the 1st and Pyrrhic article or the scientific article to emerge to appear with the title North your energy the working brain and a work of theology in which it is author as book presents a hypothesis about the 2 sides of the brain that somehow are responsible for different forms of processing that are in a way prefigured by what we can read.

[00:16:38]
Theological texts and in that sense it is a kind of a pretty figuration that we see in several authors in the field of north the other G. who have a kind of a. I don't know say a partisan position. Like really being motivated by a particular religious stance and trying to employ or scientific insights to offer explanations for what is finding religious text etc or to support the specific city of religious experiences and religious cognition.

[00:17:23]
Now I think it makes sense. Apart from novels that's a tried to think about these collaborations between theology or a science because if you think of what neuroscience might have to offer to a theology it's theology and religion in a wider sense I'll come to this question of definition but often theology and religion are taken as kind of overlapping neuroscience can offer ways of investigating the claims and descriptions offered in Biblical texts or mystical tax.

[00:18:02]
Trying to support or perhaps also critique the kind of the distinctions that I made there. It's made for instance also offer ways of exploring the connections between the mental processes involved in religion and religious behavior and all the processes of course nowadays much is done about mindfulness which is stems or has its roots in meditation practices and meditation practices are considered as part of a religion but also there are also some overlapping networks between creativity for instance and.

[00:18:39]
Religious processing so a neuro science can sometimes really offer ways of exploring connections that perhaps. Theola theology in self would it would not find then of course it can develop models and explanations or for explanations that are somewhat broader than those offered in theology itself. And as merchant perhaps even more I think does a theology or religion has to offer to neuro science because we're looking at different traditions in different cultures with very well defined and described practices stimuli like potential materials in terms of texts rituals practices that are well defined and are being practiced by.

[00:19:32]
Many subjects like thousands millions of subjects from an early age on so it can provide neuro science potentially with a whole set of materials and subjects for studies. However as we will see in the more critical parts of this Dr. As far as it is done now there are many also concerns about how these connections between your science and theology are me.

[00:20:05]
And when we are doing this we are engaging in interdisciplinary integration and interview disciplinary integration is often seen as the essential part of the crucial part of into this but narrative and it did this Pinera to you for those that probably do not know this is a term coined almost 100 years now by the Social Sciences Research Council.

[00:20:33]
Hoping to bring the different constituent societies much more closer to each other by offering funds for collaboration's and one of the 1st individuals so in that sense it really didn't fulfill the intention of the of the program one of the 1st was Margaret Mead project on. The investigation of sexuality in Samoa and as you can see there are many other different.

[00:21:02]
Social scientific approaches involved in the project even though she conducted it by just by herself. Now as mentioned and as you can find in this quite influential. But also kind of a common sense. Definition of it it has been every research integration is key to interdisciplinary T. and taken as a distinguishing feature from princes multidisciplinary the way you can offer additional insights in a particular problem like in economic insight and a plan a logical insight into urban planning like a new campus but without the need of bringing the different insights to gether which would require for instance the development of an optimisation solution like trade off between economics welfare sustainability etc So it a Gratian really poses extra challenges compared to multidisciplinary research.

[00:22:06]
However when we are now we would look at why they are how do we bring about such an integration then we can find many different views on that in the literature many often. Come to by a form of induction so looking at what actually happens and trying to formulate a general picture of how integration appears and one of the early books.

[00:22:36]
Julie Thompson clients book into this been our duty. Which is a kind of a tour Dorie zone and an analysis of what it is in our tea amounts to and she offers. 4 modes of interaction mentioning that this is not an exhaustive list. Most of interaction that. Can be did just different differentiated in terms of the depth or intensity of the integration and indeed if we look at the most shallow form it's just like a borrowing of a particular method a particular statistical method or a game theory approach and then apply it in a completely new field like the application of game theory in cancer research of Robert Axelrod has done that was for a moment.

[00:23:24]
That in itself does not really require the integration of disappearance of fields of research but merely like adoption of a particular section and then. The media wants to require more intense collaboration. With the 4th form of interaction being really in the emergence of a new into display like new or theology or nanotechnology for instance where really new it will also new textbooks new journals new set of laws are being a stablished.

[00:24:04]
Underpinning the particular field. Another account of into this been married to Gratian approaches BOR or rather as a kind of a process either in cognitive or an algorithmic process where there are particular imports like different concepts or methods from from a field that can be more or closer or less close to each other so there can be more or less commands a rehabilitation between the ingredients and then in some way they are brought together in an integration integrated relation which then heals a particular hour or so this is another way of describing what happens when different fields are integrated with each other.

[00:24:55]
And we have developed our own textbook in into this been our research where one of my aims was when I started doing this is really showing to students that often into this Bonaire integration is a quite messy or patchy process where as we will see in the case of newer theology you start with protests making a particular assumption allowing 2 fields to be at these partially brought together then a particular method is being developed and maybe a particular group of subjects turns out to be ideal for the kind of experiments and then a few comes.

[00:25:37]
Up the starts emerging but also as you can also see in there were theology sometimes as a kind of bounded rationality a place that is a field takes a particular term almost by by accident and then that particular paradigm of experimental paradigm or a particular set of theories defined a field and it takes a kind of an extra effort at some point to reconsider the direction the field has been taking and perhaps considering broadening or changing direction of the of the fields so what we wanted to do and I'm not going to walk you through this.

[00:26:23]
Most confusing picture but what the picture re presents is that there are different new elements that you can try to integrate between different fields so you can borrow theoretical and or methodological elements from different fields you can also if you're thinking about applying a particular insight from a field for instance applying insights about the cognitive or psychological F.X. of prayer or meditation into health.

[00:26:58]
For that you probably don't need too much methodological or theoretical reconsiderations but it's really thinking about how can we then apply the particular meditative practices with patients in a clinical sit setting under particular conditions so it's a very different. Form of integration in a context like that and if you're only thinking about theoretical integration Alright so this has been kind of the background let me just briefly check if if we can continue or if there are already obstacles I should clean up OK if anything emerges please let me know so I'm now.

[00:27:45]
Taking you through a couple of assumptions and I may skip over one are true that I have prepared in light of the time. Assumptions that enable this integration of cognitive neuroscience theology. I think it should be noted right away that these assumptions are not dish young have so there can be examples of nurses and they were theological research that have adopted one or more of these assumptions.

[00:28:22]
One of the 1st and quite influential steps of having taken not just by William James who is mentioned here but by others is reconsidering the broad field of theology which ranges from theories of xa Jesus or have no tics to a systematic theology institutional theology even pastoral theologies for pastoral work.

[00:28:50]
James. Describes this. These 3 different fields and then Ferrie clearly mentions well that he as a psychologist or perhaps a neurologist but he refers to himself as a psychologist that for him really is only personal religion that he can engage in and he and I quote He mentions religion belongs to the domain of psychology understanding personal religion as the feelings acts and experiences of individual men in their solid shoots so far as they present themselves to stand in relation to whatever day may consider divine or else where he talks about the.

[00:29:42]
Description of man's religious constitution so here is a huge delineation or limitation of the field of theology. And I've called this to cognitive use ation of the domain of religion or theology so as a psychologist and also cognitive neuroscience is we can talk about cognition emotion in a vision perhaps motor processing but that will be a problem as soon as we put people in brain scanner for instance.

[00:30:14]
But all the older like the cultural and historical environments or Presidents cannot really be part of this. Psychological cognitive you know scientific investigation. And just to. To underline that this is not just an odd sort of William James Wood has been really adopted quite broadly in recent somewhat critical approach account of the newer theology it is called Indeed the Archimedean point of point where newer theology can be pushed from the ground coming it can.

[00:30:55]
Take off. As I mentioned Hippocrates already thought about right taking the divine matters as just an example of a personal experience or bridge based in the individual's brain and not in some wider religious or social cultural context now in the 19th century. Cognitive Neuroscience or neuro science neurobiology at the time really focused mainly on disorders trying to identify particular locations in the brain that are responsible for specific disorders you will probably know or perhaps have heard about broke up all broke the French neurologist who had a patient who was only able to.

[00:31:47]
To use speech very limited amount of sounds and words and he discovered Passmore times for after the person died that he had a kind of a hammer or IT or 2 or more at a particular location what we now call Brokaw's area which could be correlated with this particular disorder so the idea was we use disorders and then see how they are related perhaps to kind of a dysfunction or tomorrow or whatever in the brain.

[00:32:23]
And interesting so one of the 1st E.G. investigations so electric recordings sculp recordings of small currents that happen in the brain. Were also with epilepsy patients and as mentioned epilepsy is often associated with. Religious revelations or madness in order persons' terms and here the investigation was also about religious conversion so often persons would often or a seizure after a strong seizure.

[00:33:01]
Converts to a religion but that's the author's note and I think this is relevant. These electric patients that would convert after a strong or 1st strong episode of epilepsy they were already religious so they were like secular or atheist that then converted to religion no they had already a religion a religious background but then would feel a kind of a need to re restate and reconfirm their religion and as the office also note often they had suffered from periods of stress.

[00:33:42]
And a fortunate accidents in their entire lives around that time so even though there's a focus on the brain we in their accounts they already. Testified to the fact that it was probably not just a matter of brain events but also responses to external external events. However a 3rd stop.

[00:34:13]
That has been very influential is not just look at disorders patients but also try to identify a group that has a specific religious expertise or has engaged for a long period of time for consistently with a particular form of practice and then see how this has played out in their brain.

[00:34:40]
Processes and also in a cognitive processes because in Crawford connective neuroscience what we do is we investigate brain processes but try to corral a these with particular cracklin to functions like improved attention improved concentration and improve problem solving or improved. Creativity So it is to some extent. Do we need to rely on subjective report like OK I've been meditating very intensely and at this particular moment in time my meditation or my particular prayer was really I think it's most intense so we need those subjective reports to be able to correlate the measures brain measures often also physiological measures like heart beat skin conducted.

[00:35:33]
To see whether we can Carlie between the particular religious experiences or practices and what other. Functions the subjects are experiencing and one of the 1st was a French article. Where they found Yogi's in India and they would engage in a particular form of yoga meditation which is correct arise by 8 different phases and this is the most intense phase of.

[00:36:10]
The meditation So these are brain electrodes here are muscle activity so there's a complete rest and here is heart beat where also here there's a kind of a more intense and a kind of a disruption of the normal heartbeat. Interesting he also ds authors refer to some contextual elements a mention that it would not be impossible to find these kind of yogis outside of India not in France and they refer explicitly like that these yogis are not not like the fire Kias travelling around in in the West or on campuses on academic campuses but they are secluded so they won't travel and it was really just because one of the authors is his father was part of a particular yogis 2nd yoga sect which allowed them to engage in these.

[00:37:20]
Let me check. Right so what else can be done since a lecture is taped I take it that the slides will also be online so I want to walk you through all the information on the slides but often instead of just focusing on a group of religious experts.

[00:37:42]
The different groups are considered like Franciscan nun. In this study Franciscan nuns doing recitations and Tibetan Buddhist doing visual meditation and then seeing how do these differences play out at the level of the brain and also in the subjective reports and perhaps the cognitive functions associated with it but as you can imagine this is almost like.

[00:38:10]
Comparing brain wise apples and peers with each other like verbal processing verbal praise prayer which activates brain networks designated for speech etc memorization or visual imagination which would activate very different networks so it's kind of interesting but also quite common complicating complicated to derives insight in very specific theological religious features from such studies nonetheless I think the the idea behind it is interesting and the assumption that we can find or can isolate particular reason religious features is.

[00:38:57]
Seductive but as I mentioned maybe overstretching someone. Then. What they do and I want to go here is try to localize it somewhere in the brain or even on a gene of these very simple localizations are really. Well taken and oversimplified picture of the brain as well and the final assumption that I will mention before using the last 5 minutes of my talk for some critical remarks is using provocation or intervention techniques.

[00:39:35]
Seeking whether via electoral stimulation or the. Intake of. House and not Jeanette how the synergy ends with a day can enjoy this particular features of. Religious experience like feeling one with the universe or feeling particularly open mindedness etc. Up to the got helmet developed by pursing our colleagues and of course what is really also somewhat complicated here is that there's a whole setting here laboratory setting a doctor or a helmet it's not really as we would call it ecological valid comparison with meditation or prayer in.

[00:40:24]
Stead there are perhaps elements of suggestion. Suggested by this setting that play a role as well so it may be that the provocation of religious experience is not just by some electrodes here and the helmet but really relying on the sad thing as well so results like this should be taken with.

[00:40:48]
Caution. As I mentioned my final section will be about 5 minutes we'll be raising some concerns. About these Chinese sumption these new or if occasions some just and I've already mentioned during. The different assumptions some of the most are concerned so I won't go all over all these more methodological practical concerns but I think what is really important to realize is that many of these studies are for really from very basic flaws in terms of the number of subjects the village at the end of the significance of the results not keeping also is often 2 or generalizing their findings to the whole domain of religion such.

[00:41:42]
So here are a list of concerns but fortunately as the field is somewhat growing perhaps not exponentially but it's really growing there are also ways to mitigate these concerns to respond to those challenges So for instance these groups also have tried to. Come up with a set of features a distinctive features of meditation and they've.

[00:42:10]
Discussed. Different definitions of meditation that are prevalent in the literature and then through these 5 different nations were scored on particular correct touristic. Then in their own discussion they notice that there they would add to that a. Feature of being embedded in a religious spiritual or philosophical context a feature that was not included in 8 or of the 5 prevalent definitions so this is a way of at least trying to create somewhat more coherence between studies by at least reaching agreement about what.

[00:42:51]
We looking at when we are looking at meditation practice and another response to the local easy to very specific brain areas has been to. Develop much more complex mechanisms that also are not completely uniquely devoted to religion but considering the fact that the brain is often like reusing different areas like Broca's area is not just for language but is in use in action processing in all kind of hierarchical structures that we need to process so the brain recruits again and again for different purposes the same areas and these authors.

[00:43:36]
A colleague from Amsterdam from and phoning on so well for different parts of religious experience we can refer to existing neural networks that have been developed in other areas for instance in cognitive a process of theory of mind and apparently when some religious prayers for instance personal prayer being performed by subject they engage this network that we also use when we are engaging with each other now what I want to underline that there may be something more serious at stake with the North for cation assumptions that I listed before and that that is.

[00:44:27]
Preparing religion or theology for Cognitive Neuroscience of extent he. Has invited of forest authors researchers to consider religion in such a way that is is focusing on a self on an individual taking out of its individual of its social cultural and historical context. Considering that self as mainly being brain based so the embodiment of experience is largely left out.

[00:45:03]
That self is also in the words of Malibu the New Your liberal self a self that can learn itself via meditation or prayer particular functions and then trains its brain in a certain way so the notion of Plessis is D. or a new or A plus is the is very much.

[00:45:26]
Associated with the subject as it is taken in cognitive neuroscience and then there is of course a sensualist a reductionist conception of religion religion being repressed entered by meditation and prayer whereas in most cases. Meditating or premature project. Performing their practice in a whole web of engagements with others of the practical engagements Also there are many religions like including forms of Judaism that do not.

[00:46:01]
Emphasize so much prayer or meditation but rather practical and gauge men and with the world doing good in the world so that the new or theological studies present us with a very small specific portion of what religion can be and by then using those newer theological results as a kind of a representation of really.

[00:46:27]
Age and theology as a whole would really be a form of misleading and of course as the 1st. Slide of this person put in a brain scanner watched by the Dalai Lama. Also shows there's a kind of a comedy cation of religious experience. Religion being something that you can hear and now are someone to do are particularly experts being more or less interchangeable with other tasks that people are doing so again a kind of a simply simplified notion of religion so I think.

[00:47:09]
Neuro theology could gain if the balance between it is bent and if the other elements of theology were left out from person or by focusing on personal religion if those other elements were being brought to bear upon your a theological research. Of course this would require also reconsidering experimental paradigms different research lions and as I mentioned in the beginning what you can see in a field like this is that the 1st toadies of them like doing picking low fruits and then a particular train of thought and a train of experiments gets on speed and it's very difficult sometimes to change its direction but I think there are many interesting notions that could be brought to bear on the Such research and who would really and rich the few.

[00:48:08]
Of them probably also contribute to a decade of the mind in a richer stance. Than we've seen at the beginning so I hope that even by presenting some critical. Remarks on earth your duty. The message that there was new grounds to gain has come across as well. Thank you.

[00:48:43]
Right. Right Michael. Really. All. The best. With all the. Rubbish. From. The problem whether you know. Right. Or wrong you know I think that's the. Goal of. Really. It's a. Process. So it's like this you go your. Separate your. You're just. All. But going back to what I said he's getting So the question if you're going to pick up in the European place and just expand shame on why don't you look into it's a really interesting area of experience.

[00:50:51]
Right I think this is that's a good point I think generally. The contribution of neuroscience to let's say Target fields like theology but also it's like education or politics have be considered quite critically like what are we learning from cognitive neuroscience that is rather relevant for the for the FUD.

[00:51:18]
Also because we need we need the subjective phenomenological reports anyway so many of the benefits words of the health benefits have been reported we didn't need cognitive neuroscience to tell us that on the other hand I do think that competent neuroscience can help to raise new questions for instance as I meant to take the associations to different Tal's the different forms of prayer or other cognitive OS with can help at times to for instance if we would apply this to.

[00:51:59]
2 health issues. It would be interesting and we could use numerous a cognitive neuroscience to help us to find on the what conditions these particular forms are adopted in an optimal way. So it does in that sense it could help but as a dollar stands the integration is relatively shallow I completely agree with that and I think that sounds like cognitive north south as I mentioned is.

[00:52:31]
From about 1970 these this field is even younger so it's really something that has been developed only in its infancy right now but I could see that as so often for theologians. With many of the other newer this. And as well it seems also to be a kind of a newer legitimacy for their own field and of course there's a lot of money flowing into cognitive neuroscience so there may be very pragmatic elements involved as well but I think there's more substance to be found.

[00:53:27]
Right yeah but I think that. Is a very protected sample it's a very attractive sexy technology as studies have shown. And like even experts as soon as they see in an article new or images like brain images they tend to take the article much more serious and consider it much more valid than if they would just see like tables of locations and activation signals which represent the same.

[00:54:04]
As I mentioned in one of the earlier slides this comedy for occasion of religious experience is particularly I think stimulated by the requirements of Imaging Research where you don't do it you cannot have people sitting in a brain scanner so there's a whole form of meditation or prayer are chanting etc that is excluded so these technologies and they able but they also are really constrained and given the seductive ety of it the constraints are sometimes I believe somewhat on the tomato or under appreciate.

[00:55:19]
It. Yeah well that there are there are so. Even though there are some very influential figures here. That have produced a particular paradigm. With which I got some concerns are also some groups I'm thinking for instance of the group or in our who's in Denmark where anthropologist. Psychologist neuroscientist really working intensely together trying to develop paradigms where they take into account anthropological studies of the differences in particular practices and trying to develop ecologically valid paradigms where they can tap into those differences so in the D.'s are groups instead of but many of the older works are done by a single or.

[00:56:43]
2 authors often somewhat invested in religion so I think you can see that these larger into this but I recall abrasions are coming out on the ground is that does that also to your question. OK OK Well there may I may have may have understood it's so what were.

[00:57:23]
Our rights. So I think what we see what you see in all the literature is often. Starting from theological literature and then adopting particular neuroscientific. References like articles that are adopted to a particular purpose but not always in a very critical sense for so for instance these local Look at these ation efforts.

[00:57:57]
Have been going on. Even long after in neuro science it's idea very. Simple as perspired the localization had already been somewhat abandoned so really motivated by particular theological assumptions you see a somewhat limited adoption of more recent and recent If you get richer and that has been changing I think in that sense of the literature and all sort of citations are really richer in the last couple of years to them yeah.

[00:59:13]
I think again. This really is one could even write a kind of a generation generational history of your theology I think where particularly. Like a work of the last 10 years excluding what I meant to somewhere by that are his group of shirt. Or. Arming curates. And in a.

[00:59:41]
Couple of colleagues there. Including work on embodiments cultural neuro science in their work which really has asked for new methods like. The much more sensitive to cultural differences trying to develop experimental paradigms these may play out in different labs different locations. So in that sense.