This is a living history interview with Coach Jake Rudolph, class of 1952, conducted by Marilyn Summers on February the 20th of the year 2001. 

We are at his home in Memphis, Tennessee, and the subject of our interview today is his life in general, his experiences at Georgia Tech. Coach Rudolph, thank you so much for letting us come and see you here in Memphis at your lovely home. We're so delighted to meet you, and we're looking forward to hearing your story. Tell me, where did you begin? 

Well, gosh, it goes back quite a ways. 

Okay, when were you born? 

I was born in Clarksville, Tennessee. In what year? 

In 1929. 1929. 

And what were your mom and daddy doing in Clarksville, Tennessee? 

Was that hometown to them? 

I guess they were preparing for the Depression because the Great Depression. It came a little bit later, not much. just a few years later but uh what was your dad's occupation uh my dad was a tobacconist a tobacco buyer clarksville is uh was heavy on the in the dark fried tobacco market which was the tobacco that's used in cigars and wrappers and things like that and oh literally they mean darker colored then darker colored tobacco huh right then it's a different type of tobacco than the type that goes in the cigarettes. 

And he was in the business end of buying and selling? 

Well of buying and warehousing and they would sell to mostly the foreign market over in Europe, Belgium and France and England and those type of people. 

Was he from Clarksville? 

So that was the home place? 

That's where your family had been from? 

See, his father, my grandfather, R. S. Rudolph, was one of the early people there in Clarksville. Yeah, town founder, so to speak. And my dad really worked under him and with him. 

So the roots were deep for the Rudolphs there in Clarksville. 

Well, yes, it's not a real ordinary name, but it's a page and a half of a phone book up there. In Clarksville. It's got a lot of Rudolphs up there. Were you the only little Rudolph, or did you have brothers and sisters? 

I had one brother. One brother. Mason, who... Was he older than you or younger? 

He was younger. He was four and a half years younger. And he came on to be one of the top touring golf professionals a few years back. 

So Mr. and Mrs. Rudolph raised two good athletes, didn't they? 

Yeah, I hope so. 

Tell me, did you go to school in Clarksville Elementary School? 

Right, I went through elementary and high school. 

And how early did you find out you were a pretty good athlete? 

Well, actually in grammar school, I guess, I was kind of, I liked to play everything, and I can remember many times, they don't have those anymore, peewee leagues and all have replaced it, but we had, in our neighborhood, we'd have a big game on Saturday, and they'd We'd come from all over town over there, and we'd choose up sides and play with the ages. 

I was playing sometimes where I was eight and nine years old, and there were kids in there that went in high school. 

Really? 

So you were pretty good on your feet right from the beginning then? 

Well, I went as a half a player. Me and another one would be great for one. Together you made one, huh? 

Yeah. 

But you always enjoyed athletes, that was a fun thing. I loved it. 

And did they have a high school in Clarksville so that you went on to high school there? 

Yeah, they had a high school and I had some great years there. And was football your specialty or did you like all sports? 

I played football, basketball. 

They were just starting baseball my senior year and I didn't, I was trying to play but I had hurt my knee a little bit at the end of the football season when I was playing basketball and I had to stay off of that. 

But then I played golf, and that was about the only sports that they had at that time. 

So you did everything. Yeah. 

You were an all- don't we call that an all -round letter man? 

It was a rabbit and excels and everything. I guess. I had as many letters as anybody there, or more probably. Were you a good student? 

Did you like school? 

Yes, I was pretty good. I was fortunate enough to have two years that I was president of the student body. In high school? 

Uh huh. Pretty good I'd say then. Pretty good all the way around. 

Well I conned a lot of people I guess. 

Did you always know you were going to go to college when you were growing up? 

Think back to those times when you were in high school. Oh yeah. You were thinking about going to college. You knew you were going to go. Yeah. It was always on your mind. Because we were, my dad only had moderate income and so we had to work for what we had. 

Did you manage to find time to have part time jobs and things when you were growing up? 

Yes, I can remember my first job was I made a dollar a day. I worked for a tailor in town and taking clothes that he altered from the various clothing stores. 

You were a delivery person? 

I would deliver them, I'd go pick them up and deliver them, just walking down. I was going to say, did you have a car, but you didn't need a car in Clarksville, it was small. 

So you were a delivery person first of all, that was pretty good a dollar a day, that's not bad, is it? 

Well, then it was, you know. Pretty good money. What other jobs did you acquire? 

Movie money, anyway. Yeah, yeah. 

But then I worked at a clothing store, and worked in a grocery store on weekends. 

So you knew what it was to go out. 

I cut the grass at home, and my brother, My brother, the only thing he would do was take, he took out the garbage. 

So you had to do the rest of the chores at home. Yeah, but I started him off playing golf. And that turned out good, didn't it? 

I made him swing. It turned out real good. He was very successful. Did you have a happy growing up time? 

Yes, I did. It was a happy childhood. I enjoyed going back and reminiscing. It was a happy time. 

Things got tough after you were born though because the depression came in and things were tight for everybody. 

But your dad managed to keep the family together and keep everybody fed and it didn't affect your life. You grew up feeling it was okay. My mother became a receptionist for a pediatrician. 

So she was contributing too. And she always, she liked, she'd read medical books, she didn't have any training at all in that but. She had the interest in it. She'd been to college but she had that and I guess she did that, oh, she did that probably 20 years. Yeah, she stayed with her a long time. She died early before we had a coronary. Oh, that's too bad. 

Tell me, when it came time to think about going to school, what school you had in mind? 

Where were you going to go to school when you were growing up? 

Well, growing up, Clarkson, as far as a major school, I would take the national newspapers. but I was looking at Vanderbilt. I had seen them play some. Thought maybe that would be a good fit. 

Well what happened? 

Well we had two unbeaten teams in Clarksville in my two years there. I mean the last two years and we had two of our guys. 

I went up to Nashville with them it's when Red Sanders was a coach coached there and my uncle had gone to Vanderbilt and there was a person in Clarksville they kind of had some influence up there but I went up anyway I was so small and they were playing this whole single wing which was not an offense for small people, although I played up in the line, I had to block on tackles and all that stuff, but anyway, they offered, they had offered me a little bit, but not enough to cover it because we just didn't have the money. 

So what was the decision made to do when it came next? 

So the decision was that I had gone down to, my junior year I had gone down to see, I had gone to Knoxville to see Tennessee play Georgia Tech. 

And I was, when I went over there, I can remember it real vividly because I had gotten, I received the cholly horse or severe cholly horse that I had to go, I went over out on crutches to the game and all. 

But I saw the game and this was when Frank Broils was a quarterback at Tech. He was a sight to see wasn't he? 

Yeah. 

And he, the thing that impressed me the most four was I saw a bunch of, I saw five or six of these little bitty guys like me running around out there. And you said, wait a minute. I said, that's for me. They play short people. I'm going. I said, that's where I want to go. Just like that you made up your mind. 

But, of course, I had the educational aspect certainly was always in the point of the thing, in my mind. 

So, when it came the senior year there, and the guys got the thing, and I didn't get it. 

I had an uncle, my mother's brother that lived in Rome, George, but they both, my aunt, they didn't have any children, and he went out to Darlington and talked with them, the coach, and they had had a real successful team, and of course, Darlington is one of the outstanding prep schools. Definitely. 

So did they think they might consider having you come there and play with them for a year? 

That's what we did. That's what you did. 

So instead of, you graduated from high school and then you went into one year of post -graduate. I borrowed the money from my grandmother. I don't think I ever paid her back. That's okay. Grandmas don't expect payback. There's a little bit of difference in the price. 

In those days, in those days it was you could have the only scholarship part you could have was 25% so it was $240 I think was the tuition for a day student see I could live in town with them yeah so I went as a day student was it a good experience for you oh it was great that's what led that's what did that's That's what got me to Georgia Tech. That was the key to get you into Georgia Tech. 

My coach was a former player there and he had checked with them and he told me, he says, now don't get up tight when you go down there, he says, you've got the scholarship, which you had to try out in those days, and he says, they're going to take you. 

How did you do in Darlington academically? 

Was it a good academic discipline for you? 

You learned some more? 

Yeah. 

So you were more ready for Tech. I just barely passed the chemistry there. 

I took, I had a little chemistry at Clarksville, but I took their chemistry, that was their toughest course. 

But you passed. 

I think 70 was passing, and I had about a 74, a three or four, but I had A's at Tech my first two quarters in chemistry. Oh, that's great. 

So they more than got you ready for it, and that was good. did you play for Darlington yeah and how did you do that year well well so they were looking at you when you came down I did manage to I had good games we played two games in Atlanta with old GMA that's Woodward Academy there and I had got my nose smeared in the infield at the old Ponce Leon Atlanta Crackers ballpark I was turning the kickoff and I broke it clear and at about their 40 yard line I got a shoestring tackle by George Malouf who I wouldn't think you know. I know the Malouf family name. I got to know them real well too. Was Bobby Dodd watching you? 

Did he come to that game do you think? 

No. Nobody was watching you? 

No. This was right when the boys at Tech High had first broke up. There was Shorty Doll who was coached at Boys High. His son was at Tech right before me. He was there when I came and he graduated. 

So what year did you come to Tech? 1947. 1947. 

Okay, the war was just over. I finished at Clarkswood, high school at 48, wait a minute, I came in 48. 48, okay. 

Well the war was definitely over. A lot of veterans were coming back. the school was a busy busy place wasn't it just jammed with people it was it well it was a lot of like say veterans early veterans there did you come in as a freshman yeah and and you were in on a football scholarship you came down for the tryouts oh yeah try out he told you to keep calm and did you keep calm and the tryouts went okay well yeah and they didn't say hey you're too short I had just broken my nose. 

I went to, they put me in, I spent a few days at Pontellia on a clinic which was right there by the ballpark. Oh, for heaven's sake. Yeah, it was real nice. It's top doctors there. And I played in two weeks with a face guard and they didn't wear a face guard then. That's one reason. My nose was smeared all over my face. Because you You hadn't had a face guard, but they let you play with one. 

So what position did Dye assign you to? 

I ended up playing safety, but I was a running back and I had played a lot of places, which helped particularly in coaching. 

Yeah, it helps to know every part of the field, doesn't it? 

What did you think of it? 

What was it like? 

Can you remember your earliest impressions of Georgia Tech, the first time you came? 

I just, I can remember, I can remember I was so excited when we were walking in off of the, I went down, I dressed out, went down and practiced, caught, fielded some punts and then they let me run one play with varsity linemen up there, just a kind of a skeleton play but it was, and I had to hesitate a little bit, I had a very quick start and I had to hesitate a little bit on our team but I shouldn't have hesitated there. They were there. Some of the time I got in the hole it wasn't there. 

But I walked, one of the coaches walked back up, it was Louis, Bob Wood. And he asked me if I was, he said you want to come to Georgia Tech? 

I said, I sure do. He says, you going to get any bigger? 

I said, I will if I have to. He says, all right, come on, let's go up to the office and we'll sign up. 

So that was it. 

And so then they assigned you to Cloudman Dormitory, which was still an athlete's dormitory at that time, right? 

Yes. 

So you were there. What did you think? 

Here you were. You were in a big city compared to where you had lived before. Oh, yeah. Clarksville and Rome are pretty small compared to Atlanta. 

So here you are in a big city in a school that you had thought about for a few years. You must have been awfully excited. Eating at the varsity area the other day. 

Were you? 

Did that help you grow any? 

I tell you, I can remember drinking water to try to weigh 150 when I went back in preseason. Yeah. 

So you really were very slight, but you had a lot of courage. 

Well, yeah, of course I was short, but... You had a lot of courage. I guess, I guess. 

Do you remember the first time you met Bobby Dodd? 

I can't remember the first time, but I can remember, you know, others, many others. What kind of a guy was he? 

What was your impression of him? 

Well... 

Were you in awe? 

You could go in, he was the type of person that, he just had a personality out of this world and he could sell you on anything. 

And if you're disturbed on, I was disturbed when we played in the Orange Bowl in 51, the the Orange Bowl, New Year's in 1952. And that was in Miami and of course that's the dream of every, it was the dream of the bowls now. There's so many bowls and all this kind of old stuff. 

But it was a big deal then. 

Yeah, and it's still a big deal, the big ones, but uh we went i was all excited there i had uh got my knee hurt in against alabama and i didn't think it was that that much and i was still i was able to practice that was We had three games left, I think, after that, or two games after that, but anyway, I was listed as starting down there, but I didn't play, as it turned out, and all, and I probably would have gone out on the first play of the thing, because it wasn't well, but I just didn't see anything, And I could actually have finished at Tech my junior year if I'd gone on taking it. 

But what I did was I could cut it down instead of taking 20 hours a quarter, I'd take 15 and go an extra quarter and it makes it a lot easier. Yeah. The study load's not so heavy. 

So I went up and talked with Todd on that. I can remember that talk real well. Do you remember when he started calling you Jakey? 

You told me he called you Jakey. Just from the start. From the start he called you that. 

Well, the way I got, I started, I had a lot of ups and downs, as everybody does. And in 19, I started playing in 1950. 

Okay, you got to school in 48, and you said you did well academically. You didn't have any problems at first. Yeah. 

Okay, so you were in this Codon dormitory with all the other athletes, but you weren't playing first string at that time in 48? 

They didn't put you right on the first string? 

I was playing, well, we played freshman ball then. 

Okay, all right, so that's the difference. You were playing freshman ball. 

So you were playing every week. They had three freshman games. Yeah. 

But I hurt my knee. Right off the bat, huh? 

Yes, I neglected to say that. I hurt my knee the second game. And, well, I hurt it. It was hurt in practice. 

As a freshman team, were you guys? 

That spring, I waited until spring and went out and it went out, I got it hurt the first day of spring practice doing a cut and drill so I had my knee, it was cartilage, so I had the knee operation then. Oh really, that early in the game you did? 

No, it was, yeah because. 

So they did it right at Tech, I mean they took care of you, kept you on the roster, kept you at school and everything? thing, you had the surgery recovered over the off season and then came back in 49 then. 

Yeah, all the time, you know, all the colleges do that, the top doctor, and I was in the Baptist Hospital. 

Tell me, when you moved into the dormitory with all these other guys, who were some of the guys you were hanging out with? 

Who were your roommates? 

Do you remember anybody? 

What was life like in Cloudman Dorm? 

Well, it was kind of wild at times. 

I mean, a whole bunch of athletes in one place? 

You know, I'd like to think that there's a little bit of a different type of kid at Georgia Tech, and certainly, I mean, they're the type of people that you're going to spend the rest of your life being friends with. 

So you make good friends? 

I don't know how many colleges can say that, a lot of times that's not true, but you run around with certain ones, but at Tech they usually had a senior with three or four freshmen. Oh, so you had a wiser, older head around? 

Yeah, like a brother, big brother. And did they kind of really encourage you to keep up your grades? 

Yeah. 

Now, the thing is, they don't, well, they do make you go when you get down to failing situations, but I went to, if they were off, I had a tutor, I went. And to me, I've always felt that what difference does it make how you get the knowledge of something. If somebody teaches you, you're just so much the better. I mean, you've still got it, and there's nothing wrong with that. Yeah, nothing wrong at all. Nothing wrong with having somebody help you. 

Did the coach make it clear to you that he expected you to do well in school? 

I've been told that Bobby Dodd really expected his athletes to be students too. Yeah, of course there are some students that it's just going to be hard for any way you go. I can tell you one, he was the nicest guy. In fact, right at the first day I think I had a locker right next to him. Bob McCoy, he was from Chattanooga. but he was a real outstanding football player, halfback, running back. He played defense too and he had a hard time passing. I don't know how many quarters he was there. They just keep fine going. 

Do you remember any of the professors you had at all? 

Was there anybody who was particularly good to the team? 

I can't remember. We had one professor in math. I don't know if he's head of the department or not. He might have been. I did notice at Tech that there were a lot of heads of departments tutoring. Yeah, they took the time. Do you remember D. M. 

Smith in math, Professor Smith? 

Because Because I was told that he was very partial to athletes and would really work hard to help them learn. The one I remember in math, that's what I thought. 

It's funny how it comes around, but the one I was, I shouldn't say his nickname, but Shorty Bortell? 

No, Rhett Reynolds. Oh, Rhett Reynolds. Because there was a Shorty Bortell that everyone always had to. 

I can remember in there that one and I, we were going along and he said something and he called on me for something and I don't know what, I gave him some kind of answer. He said, Mr. Riddle, you would know the difference in health with a giraffe. He would have given you a whole lot of credit right then, huh? 

I guess I don't guess so. Tell me what the routine would have been like for you, Coach. 

You went to classes and went to practice and then when you had away games you had to travel to? 

It was a rigorous schedule for you, wasn't it? 

Well, yeah. It is and there's no shortcuts that's ever been taken to take. 

I know as far as that, but it's just like in the prep schools, just like our schools here or like Darlington or any other schools. 

Well there's a lot more burden put on an athlete because of the time that they have to spend practicing. Yeah, but because of that, I know my own kids. 

And one reason that I stayed so long at a place that like me and I like them, number one, was I had three sons and all three sons are graduates of Memphis University School. All three sons are graduates of three of college. Because you were right there showing them the way. There's a lawyer too, CPAs, and a stockbroker. 

So you know it takes that kind of discipline to be successful. 

Well, yeah. If you're busy now, you certainly get overworked at times, but if you keep busy... It's better. It does better. And I know, I couldn't understand, but when I had the roughest times, I had the best grades. 

So the more work you had, the better you produced under the pressure. Yeah, the better. 

What were the meal times like for athletes? 

Did you all eat together? 

Yeah, we had a training table. They had a training table. They fed you good? 

Yeah, great. 

So that was a comfortable part of your life. 

And they worked it out, it was real nice that when I moved to a fraternity, they would give you the, they would pay for the, we would eat breakfast at the fraternity, which made it a lot easier. 

So you didn't have to go rushing on there and then go back. 

So you didn't have to walk all the way over to the train table to get there. 

You said the first time you played for the varsity team, the regular season, was in 1950? 

Was that the year you, were you excited about that opportunity coming to you or scared? 

I can tell you a kind of funny story on that. 

I was dressing out for the home games but I hadn't played and this was fairly, this was about half way through the season and And then 1950 was, Tech went, I think it was four or five and one, something like that. And so it was Dodds' only losing season, I believe, certainly up to that time it was. 

But I was sitting out, and I was sitting with my roommate, Alec Hunt, who, Alec's from, lived in Ruston, Louisiana. His dad was a tech man, and I roomed with him, and he was a line, he played a linebacker. 

So I was sitting down kind of by him there, and all of a sudden he hollered, and he said, Chase, hey, Coach Dodd's calling you. 

And this was when we were playing Virginia VMI, and they were about to upset us, and they ended up they did upset us. 

But I said, oh, he was a joker anyway. And he says, no, no, I'm not kidding you. This is real. 

So I got up and stumbled up. And Coach was calling you in. And he called. He says, he says, Jackie, I know you hadn't played half back there. 

But he says, when you got there, it was one thing that happened. and when you got injured, oh gosh. Coach, we got done in by the bell on the clock right there, so let's hear that story again now. Bobby Dodd called you up. 

Well, he called me up and says, Jackie, I know you haven't been playing halfback, but he won't do any worse than who's in there, I'll take all across the military for it, so I said I want you to go in there and do your best. 

So I ran in. 

He actually took time to tell you that, that's really nice, isn't it? 

He didn't want you to be worrying about it. Oh no. 

So in you went. I got in and we, I managed to stay out of the film's eyes for the rest of the game. That's where they correct your mistakes when you go in your meetings and all. 

Was it a really thrilling experience to know that all those people were watching and you were out there? 

Well, yeah, but... There you were. Actually, once you start playing... 

You don't even think about it? 

Which is one thing that I told young guys that I worked with all these years, I said once you have the opening kickoff, it's just another game. It doesn't matter where you are. That's right. You don't have time to think about it. 

So you focus on what your job is and you do it, huh? 

So we ended up not losing that, not winning that game you said. We did. We lost that game, but I played for the rest of the deal. 

So, Coach, you did a good job? 

The last game was Georgia between the hedges. And you were on the field? 

I was on the field in the game all the way. I intercepted one pass. Wow, so you were a football player. We upset Georgia. We did upset them, even though it was a losing season. We upset them then. Oh, that had to be sweet. I think it was 6-0. That is fantastic, isn't it? 

Yeah, and I don't think Tech lost another game to them for 13 games. 

So that was the beginning of Dodd's luck, as they called it, the golden year. Right, I got that book. My son just gave me another book about Dodd's, it's about southern, southeast football. Oh yeah, Georgia Tech versus Georgia, the southern games, something like that. Tell me what it was like to be a football star now, maybe not a star, but a football player. You were playing first string varsity football for Georgia Tech. Oh, yeah. You really were doing it. Did it feel great? 

Well, I'll show you a picture here and there. Okay. It felt good. 

So you ended up that season, and it was the end of your junior year. 

Well, actually, it was my sophomore year of football. Sophomore year of football? 

Okay. 

So the best was yet to come. I was red charity. 

The first year. And I win an extra quarter. That's why, that's what I did. Stringing yourself out over the year. And that's when I talked, I talked with Todd, I could come back and play another quarter. I knew we were going to have a good team, because we were unbeaten that year, in the junior year. 

So we're talking 50-51, now we come back with the 51 year, 51, the fall of 51. 

Did you go back to your same position? 

Were you safety or fullback? 

Or what position did you play in the fall of 51? 

Well, in the Georgia, I played in the Georgia game, they moved me to safety because I told them after the game and I said, I can play halfback, but I said I can do a better job at safety. 

So they made you safety. I knew I could play safety better than the safety we had. That helped too. I couldn't say that. Yeah, so we came back in the fall and you picked up that position of safety again with the 51 team. And the deal on coming back, well that's going into that year. I played safety and we've been all the way. 

What was the best game you played that year? year, what makes that year stand out for you? 51, 52? 

I don't know. You had a good season. You said the coach started winning. Right. We led, our main records were in 52, although You were good in 51. We were fourth or fifth in the country in 51. 

Who were some of the guys you were playing with, who was on your team? 

Oh gosh, Hartman, Tease, Turner was a pullback, Darryl Crawford was a quarterback, and George Morris, Al Miller, Raybeck. There's a lot of good guys going there. 

Yeah, these are all, Bobby Moehead was one half defensive back that I was real close with because we played all together all the way. He died early. 

Coach, when do you think back of those times? 

Charlie Brandon, he's the Atlanta boy, he coaches, he's our coach. 

What do you remember? 

I mean, what was the school like at that time? 

Was there a lot of school fair? 

Did a lot of people come out for the games? 

Did y'all sing Ramblin'' Wreck, I mean was it real spirited like it looked? 

Oh Lord yeah. Yeah. That was the highest spirit I think that they've ever had there. Everybody was happy. 

Well we had a 30 game all, except for one tie with Duke. I played in that game. 

So it was win, win, win, huh? 

That's a pretty heady experience isn't it? 

Well you know everybody likes you if you win. I found that out. What do you think made Bobby Dott a good coach? 

Oh gosh. 

Well I've always said the thing that I was as far as a college coach, he treated you like a man. 

Now, as long as you, you know, as long as you go and stay in line, they'd talk about like on bowl games that people would see us come in and we'd look so funny that we didn't look like football players and didn't act like football players and all that. 

And when we'd go after our practices, they'd see us down there, I remember down there in Miami, you know, we'd go down to play volleyball on the goalposts with the football, and we started doing that, and the coaches, we were having so much fun, the coaches could get in there and play with us, and I was directly involved with that, and in that, and. 

So you were having fun, you were having a good time. Yeah, yeah. And playing football was a good time. And Dodd never lost. 

The first bowl game he ever lost was whoever, of all people, Frank Balls when Frank was at Arkansas. Frank was a backfield coach when I was at Tech. I saw him a couple of years ago when we had our party thing down there. The thing that made Dodd a good coach was that he made everybody have a good time all the time. Do you think that was part of it? 

Well, that's one of them, but I think he teaches you like a man. 

Now, you get out of line, as one or two did. And John Weigel, he played, it was my sophomore year that he played. He played real good, but he got out of hand a little bit. one night or early morning out in front of the dorm and uh he was suspended and they tried to put the pressure on his eye to let him back in and he wouldn't do it. 

So the coach had a real high standard of integrity. Yet, yet, yet he got him a scholarship to Oklahoma State. 

So he was kind. He got him in. Yeah. Yeah. You had to pay if you did something wrong, but he wasn't, he wasn't punitive. He wanted to do it too well. 

He was there at the meeting that we had down at the, at the dome of football, Georgia you know, two years ago. This gentleman you're talking about, yeah. 

So he had no hard feelings to Tech, is what you're saying. The coach made sure there were no hard feelings. And even a better example is Billy Tease. You probably know the story. No, I don't. 

Well, Tease, he got in trouble staying out too late, that night before the game or something. We were gone. Tease was, when I was in the service, I think. I heard when Tech lost on short wave, I was stationed in Germany. The thing that Bobby Dodd could do then was reprimand, but still be a kind man. He could punish, but still be kind. 

So nobody ever disliked him then, huh? 

He was well loved? 

Oh, yes. Would you have done anything he asked you to do? 

Did you trust him? 

Just about. 

Well, I'll tell you what, I'll tell you what he could do. I was upset after the Orange Bowl game because I did not get into the game. Yeah. 

And I didn't expect to play a lot because I wasn't full of strength and I certainly don't want to weaken the team because of me. 

But you wanted a play. 

But I at least wanted say I've been in it. 

So I could graduate that year if I wanted to or I could cut it down and stay next to a quarter and play then go. 

One place I had to go was a service through the ROTC yeah so I went in and talked to him about that you know and he was I was talking to him I also I told him I was just right at this point I didn't get to play you know at all and I didn't I wanted to know if, I don't know whether I should go on and get out, you know, now or play another year. What did you say? 

And I said, if I came back, I don't know what I'd play. And so he said, well, if we were going to play a game tomorrow, you'd be my safety man. He said, now, there may be some other coaches that might think different. You know, they want somebody else. I said, I don't worry about Techco Stars, just so I get a competitive chance. To play again. And he says, well, he says, well, that's what he said. And I came back, and I never was down again. He did play you? 

Yeah, all the way. Tell me about your senior year. What was it like on the field? 

It was great. It was a winning year, wasn't it? 

Oh, Lord, yeah. 

Well, we won the INS championship, national championship. I took my watch off because it got, I mean my wing, but you have pretty happy memories of that time. Yeah, quite so. I'll show you some pictures. We want to look at your pictures. 

Tell me, besides football, what else did Tech do for you? 

What else did Tech give you? 

What did it teach you during that time? 

Do you feel like you got a good education? 

Well, I don't think there's any doubt of that. 

And certainly after going into teaching, which I didn't count on, I certainly didn't prepare for that. 

Math was the only thing that I could really qualify for, or the easiest thing because of having an hour of that. 

But that might be where I really learned math, teaching it. Teaching it. Yeah, they say that's the way you really do learn. When you have to explain to somebody else you know you know it, not until then. 

So when you look back at your college career as a football player and as an academic, as a student, you think you were in the right place at the right time? 

Yeah. 

What was your best game your senior year? 

Well I got more credit for the Alabama game, but I had made a tackle, that's my biggest claim to fame. That's pretty good. I'll let you see a moving deal of that. Okay. That's a pretty big deal, so you were a football hero in your senior year. A U. P. photographer just happened to get it in the end zone. It is a good picture. 

Well, that's great to have that memory. 

Now, we didn't talk about your social life over these four years you were at Tech. That's right. And you were in the fraternity now, so you must have met some girls. You must have been... I met a few. I was afraid that's what you were going to say earlier. Did you go to any dances or go to any of the movies, local theater, anything like that? 

Oh, yeah. 

So you weren't all just work? 

Yeah, we'd go out, go to the varsity. You remember it as a good time? 

Oh, yeah. 

When did you meet Carolyn? 

I met Carolyn right after, let's see, the year after I went to Darlington. When you went there as a prep school student you met her? 

The year after that. Oh, so you knew her while you were at Georgia Tech? 

Yeah. Oh, did you? 

Oh, yeah. I had her, and her parents. Ah, so did she come down sometimes to see you play? 

She saw me, well, junior year one, Carol. I think so. Yeah, so she did come down and see you play. 

So when you graduated, when it was finally accomplished, you already had yourself a steady girlfriend then. Yeah. 

Were you talking about getting married? 

Well, I was afraid I was going to lose her because I was going into the service. 

You knew you had that military to do, right? 

You didn't think she'd wait for you? 

I didn't know why I had to ask her. What'd she say? 

I told her it wouldn't be so bad if she'd come go with me. And you couldn't talk her into that? 

She said, okay. She kind of shocked me. You did talk her into it. 

Well, good for you. 

So what year did you get married in? 40... No. Let's see. What year did you get married? 53. Yeah, I told you. Be careful. 

So I went in at 53, yeah. You'd be getting in trouble. I went in because I went in the service. 

So 53. I'll tell you what. We got married on January 10th. Good. You remember that? 

I played in the Sugar Bowl January 1st. That was a pretty big few weeks of your life there. I could have gone to the Sugar Bowl with a free honeymoon, no expenses. If only you had played it a little differently, huh? 

If the wedding had been... A couple weeks earlier. 

Well, she says I wouldn't have any part of it because I wouldn't have my mind on it. She had a good point. You just got through telling us how a football player has to focus on his work. 

So I took some tickets that I got and sold them, and we went on our honeymoon to guess where? 

The Peabody Hotel. Right here in Memphis? 

In Memphis, Tennessee. You did. That's right. You did. 

So you brought her back to Memphis, huh? 

Uh-huh. And then you went off to war. Right. Right. I went in the service. 

You went into the Air Force, you told me, Air Force, okay, so where did they send you? 

Well initially you go to Lakeland and then we went to New Rochelle, New York. 

That was an experience for two southerners to go up to New Rochelle, New York to an information education school. 

It was a services old chaplains Fort Slocum and it's just a they call it the rock was just an island right sitting out right there off in New Rochelle and I was so glad to get out of tech and all since thank God I don't have to go to any more classes. And there you were. I went to class from eight to five. It was even worse wasn't it? 

For six weeks. Oh boy. And then we were right towards the end of the Korean War. Yeah the conflict. And we were holding our breath of which way we would go. You were afraid to be shipped across but you weren't? 

Yeah we were sent to Europe. 

So you did go to Germany? 

We went to Germany. 

Well that was nice that Caroline could go with you. 

And I got her over, not right away, but the brand new government quarters at 12th Air Force Headquarters in Ramstein, Germany. And I was stationed at a Landstuhl Air Base, which was a tactical base. 

So it was a good Yeah, it was all right. I didn't care for the, I didn't care for the services, the ways of... You weren't going to make a career out of the military, that was for sure. No, I don't like some of the ways they do things. 

But it was a good experience for both of you. 

I got assigned the base headquarters, squadron, supply and all in there and I didn't like that stuff too much but I finally got the personnel officer. She didn't want me to play football. They had the best football program over there in Germany and Europe. Air Force has their own program over there. And they must have had their eye on you. I told her I wouldn't play unless I saw it was to my advantage. 

Well it definitely was to my advantage. 

So you did play for them? 

I played for them. Our wing commander was a, he came back and he went to the Pentagon. I asked him one night at beer call if he could get me out of supply I thought I might play. 

So he says all right come see me. 

So I went up there the next Monday morning and he put me in there. 

I knew the personnel services officer was going back to the state so I got in there and it was pretty good. Did you play? 

Yeah. 

So you actually weren't competitive? 

I played two years. I told them if I hurt my knee anyway I'm going to quit. Yeah. 

Well I did hurt my knee. I quit there. 

But the second year, I came back and it was all right. And I went through the whole thing and out of the breeze. We won the championship the first year. Wow. We played in, I couldn't play, but we played in Wimbledon Stadium. 

So that was a pretty big deal. Yeah, that was in London. 

So you were just meant to stay with football. There was no doubt about that. I guess so. 

Well, then you came back to the States. You got out of service and came back to the States? 

Yeah. You had to find a job. Right. 

Well I had called my friend when I was at Tech, and he's a former Tech player, Red Collins. He played back Howard Hector, I know you know Howard. Oh sure, yeah, sure do. 

Well he played a head of Howard. 

So that would have been in the late 30s. 

He was, he was just, he played actually a position, he played a blocking bag, but he had a, it was a small bearing company that calls on textile mills and big machinery stuff and. He said he could use it. For their replacement bearings. 

So I worked with him for three years, but I wasn't going too far and all and then I I just stopped into Darlington when I was up there at Rome Craft, that's the big paper mill, they got a big baron up there. 

So you went up and they were just fishing around. 

You got to get there, you go by Darlington, so I stopped in to say hi to the people there because I had such a great year there and they got to buzz me about coming there to coach and teach. Sounded pretty good? 

Yeah, I went. Because the business was down down. 

So from there, then they called me to here. 

So it was a move from Atlanta. You and Carolyn were living in Atlanta. You moved up to Rome when you took the Darlington position. You were there for one year. And you found you liked coaching, didn't you? 

Oh, I knew I like it. 

But it's a case of, you know, as Red possibly said, can you afford it? 

That's always the case. Can you afford it? 

So it must have been an agonizing decision to leave the business world. 

Well it was tough but it's not just any deal and I think a man's got to be happy with what he's doing. You're absolutely right. 

So you made that decision. 

So that was the reason and also... And Carolyn was happy to come to Rome, Georgia. 

Well, she came. Let's take a break there. 

Now, Coach, we know that you were at the Darlington school, and that you had a young family, your wife and your first child, whose name was, is, Stephen? 

Stephen. Yeah. 

So you had Stephen and Carolyn to worry about, to be supporting them, and as we said, you knew you were liking it, you knew you had to be happy, but how long could you stay as a coach? 

And tell us what happened. You stayed at Darlington, how long? 

Well, as it turns out, I stayed just one year. 

And what happened to change that? 

Well, I got a call from a man that was actually teaching at Darlington when I was a student there. Okay. And he was also the line coach for football and track coach. 

So he was your good buddy when you went down. 

So, yes, he was a very popular person and he was not the head coach but he came to Memphis, he had come to Memphis And actually he, with a couple of other men from Second Presbyterian Church here, started Presbyterian Day School, and of which my wife eventually was going to be teaching there for... 

You didn't know that then, did you? which I didn't we didn't know at the time but anyway I had a very I coached the junior varsity team at Darlington they're a little different than the high schools because they seniors also play there and they're playing other prep schools. And we played three or four high schools too on the schedule. 

But anyway, we had a 7-0 -1 season which was real good for them. And I guess the wind had gotten down this way. What was the gentleman's name that called you? 

So, Mr. Linn called you and said? 

He was the first headmaster at Memphis University School. Had you ever heard of Memphis University School before? 

Yeah, I did. It was a brand new school. It had only been in the business for a few years. Right. It started in 55 with the 10th grade and then it went on to be 7 through 12 grades. 

So he offered you a job? 

He wanted me to come down and look him over, so I did. 

Now, but this time you had your second son. Courtney had been born. Right. 

So you had two children, so they were going to have to make you an offer to support your family. 

Well, yeah, yeah. 

So you came to have a look at Memphis. What did you think? 

Well I liked it. 

I liked the challenge of kind of being on the ground floor of the school starting and he had done a good job down there and it looked real good here so we made the commitment and you moved to Memphis. Right. Never looked back? 

Never looked back and stayed a long time. 

What was your intention when you came? 

Did you say, well, I'm going to build this program up and stay with it? 

Yeah, I was… You were going to be making some personal sacrifices to do that, financially. Well… You could have always made more money in the business world. There's no question of that. Oh, yeah. 

So you knew you were going to make some sacrifices. 

You do, but there's usually, I don't know, there's usually a way to get things without being a moocher, so to speak. You have to be a little more creative. But, I mean, you live in a faculty home. Yeah. There's some perks. And, of course, since I've been here so long, this is not my house, but it is for... As long as you want it to be. 

Well, as long as it's not needed for something else. Coach, what was your style of coaching? 

Did you come in with some intention, or did you just have... 

Well, I was very fortunate in, through the years, in having good coaches. And I played, I actually played football from high school 12 years. 

So you'd had a lot of experience on the field. I played a lot. Yeah, that is a lot. Most people don't have more than a couple of years. I played four at Clarksville. I actually started when I was a freshman because that was back when the war was ending up. 

So you could. 

So four at high school and one at Darlington and then Tech and then the military. Two years there. 

So you already had all the experience of being on the field. 

Did you consciously try to emulate the coaches that had taught you so much? 

I certainly used it, yes. It was helpful to have that variety of people. I certainly used that in what I thought was the most effective things. 

Well I've got something I want you to see, I've got a little scrap hook. You actually coached for 39 years, is that correct? 40 counting the point of darn thing. 40 years, not many people can make that claim. not many people that's a heck of a record isn't it well it's a long time to be in one place and you saw an awful lot of young men come through didn't you yeah fine young men yeah yeah a lot of pride in fact that's one of the things that one of the greatest things I think about my job was to watch the the young people come through and then see to have the privilege of being able to affect their lives. Yeah and see how they have done so well. Did you just coach or did you also teach? 

I taught. You taught as well as coached. Yeah when I went to Darlington and never had any idea about teaching I taught four classes. 

When I came here I taught four classes of math and I thought I taught algebra one mainly and I coached football of course I was athletic director now not when I first came here but it wasn't too long in 1964 I think. 

Did you ever have a chance to go back and talk to Bobby Dodd after college? 

Did he know you became a coach? 

I had Coach Bobby Dodd come and make a talk to my team. Did you? 

What a thrill that must have been for you. We were playing Germantown which is our big rivalry. We're not in the same, now they've separated the private schools. That's always been a battle with private and public. 

But you still can play each other. Tell me a little bit about what MUS is now. 

It's Memphis University School, and it's like the Darlington, it's a prep school? 

Yes, it's exactly. 

Now Darlington's co -ed now, we're all boys, still all boys. Hutchinson School for girls is over across the, just right up here. 

Now what about MUS? 

Is that all boys? 

Yeah. 

Okay, so it's a boys prep school. How big a school is it? 

How many? 

Well, it's about 600 now, and that's 7 through 12 grades. 7 through 12. And they fielded a football team every year for the last 40 years. Yeah. And with you knowing what's going on. I had a 22 three-man squad back in 60. Wow. We went 6 and 3. 

So the time came when you invited Bobby Dott to come up and talk? 

Yeah, he was making a, this is after he retired, but you know, he spent a while talking to alumni and funnily. Yeah, he traveled around, yeah, on the club circuit and such, and so he came to talk to you. Yeah. That must have been a thrill for you to have him. 

One of my parents went down, brought him out here to, he was talking over to Adams Mark, which is not far from there, and he came out and I went, took him, got him, he went down to the field right there at the first, and because he had to make a talk at 7.30 I think or something, and this was, no, his talk was, it was later than that, but anyway, I went down to the field, I went to Ken Miller and was the coach at Germantown, he still is a coach. 

I think he's getting ready to try, but anyway, I got him to come out on the field with me and I introduced Coach Dodd. Did he still call you Jakey? 

Yeah. He still called you Jakey, huh? 

Yeah. He must have been proud of you being a coach. He made them bring him back out here and he got here just toward the end of the game. 

So he was here for the interview? 

And we lost, oh, what was it, 14 or 13, I think. Very tight. 

And he was saying that the man that I had, and one of the parents that brought him out here, brought him other, he said, God, that's the biggest high school team I've ever seen. He touched it. Oh, Germantown. Yeah. Yeah, they were a big guy. 

But he went up there and made this little talk, you know, right before the game. That was kind of neat, huh? 

I thought my kids would get a kick out of that. And I'm sure they did. He was still the great Bobby Dodd, wasn't he? 

Yeah. 

Well, it must have given him a lot of satisfaction to know that some of you all turned into coaches, good coaches. 

Well, I would say, I talked to him about it when I, what does he think, what he advised. 

Oh, you mean you consulted with him before you took the job? 

Well, when I told you, you know, back when I went up there to, took the job to... To the Darlington? 

Yeah. 

And he thought it was a good idea for you to try that? 

Well, he said it just depends on, you know, he... Can you afford it? 

No, that was red. That was, was very philosophical. 

But he's right. He took me, I played a lot of golf out at Druid Hills with him, Tommy Barnes. Tommy Barnes, the elusive Tommy Barnes. He's a great guy. Yeah, we're trying to nail him down. Oh, yeah. 

Well, when you look back at it, did you make the right decision? 

Oh, yeah, I wouldn't do it different. Yeah, you wouldn't have done any different, huh? 

No. 

Now, you went on to have another son when you were here, so you ended up with three sons. You have Stephen, Courtney, and David. Yeah, David. Tell me a little bit about the boys today. What did Stephen do today? 

Stephen is with David Myers, who is a renowned eye man. 

They have an eye clinic where Stephen is kind of his, does the, Stephen's got his CPA and he handles, you know, the financial stuff and the organization. 

So he's right here in Memphis? 

Yeah. All three of them are. 

Okay, and what does Courtney do? 

Courtney is with Morgan Keegan, a stockbroker, which comes in handy for us because, man, it's all that stuff. Better to have yourself somebody to do that for you, huh? 

Now what about? 

I guess it is. What about David? 

David's a lawyer. David went to Vanderbilt. 

So he got there. 

He got to Vanderbilt, huh? 

He fortunately had his mother's brains, and David went to Vanderbilt on their best scholarship, and he also went to Vanderbilt Law School. None of the boys went back to Tech? 

No. You're going to have to look at some of your grandchildren to do that then. We're going to make a legacy out of this. 

Well, I've... You've got how many grandchildren? 

Nine? 

Nine. My grandchildren. Any potential tech students in there? 

I don't know. We have the oldest, he just went to a Mississippi State. 

So you lost that one. 

But hey, he just got hit with a tornado too. Oh dear. I don't know whether y'all heard anything about that. No, not at all. Last night? 

Nobody was, they didn't, I don't think anybody was killed. 

So everybody's safe in your family. buildings were really messed up. Oh, that's terrible. 

I think they got about, I just heard that one time they had about three million dollars damage at Mississippi State. Oh, that's too bad. 

Well, I want to encourage you to encourage all of your grandbabies. Somebody needs to go to Georgia Tech to carry on their granddaddy's legacy here. Even one of the girls, you know. 

Well, David's got, he might be the one, he's got four boys. He's got four boys though. Oldest is six. 

So you'll just have to keep encouraging. That's what you have to do, keep encouraging. 

Well, you've been a pretty lucky man, Coach. Oh, I guess so. 

You've got a fine family, and you've had a wonderful job that you've really enjoyed over all the years. And you already told me you wouldn't change anything. Oh, we have a list of all of your grandchildren. We can name them. You've got Steven, Jason, Sarah, Taylor, Jake the fourth, Myers, Gardner, Wiseman, and Carson. Does that sound familiar to you? 

I think so. That's the whole goodly group. Steven has three, Courtney has two, and David has four. It's like a zoo when you get them all together. You have happy Noisy holidays. Noisy ones, right? 

All right. Lots and lots of people. You're very fortunate that they're here in the city so you get to see them for the most part. 

So that's a very lucky thing for you. 

Well, it has been a real pleasure hearing your story, sir. I've never quite understood the psyche of the football players until now. 

And I hear it in your attitude that you could focus on it, you could still be a student, but it was part of your life to be a football player. 

And I think it's wonderful that you've had this opportunity to mold so many, 40 years' worth of students coming through, making an impression on them. That's a terrific thing for you to leave. You've got to see just a little bit. 

Well, I'm going to look at your scrapbook. Are you going to look at that? 

Yeah, we're going to look at that on camera. We'll take some pictures of it so that you can show some of that. 

So let's take a break right now. Coach, you received this book recently, you said, from your... yes this was a gift from MUS going away gifts so to speak 39 years and this is full of if you'll hold that page there just filled with all kinds of stories from people who over the years you've been able to affect some way right look at all these years of coaching all these stories everybody did they have a party for you? 

Yes, they had a reception. Yeah, that's great. Again, we can't thank you enough for sharing your story with us today. We're very, very grateful to you for giving us your time. I appreciate you coming. Thank you. 

Okay, we'll stop on this. Great. Thank you. You don't happen to have two copies of that, do you?