Thanks for your direction and
thanks for the invitation.

Also thanks for letting me
Playland Skinner before you start.

That would never happen in Germany I
was telling the commie the day

that you get to play a soundtrack
before you start the lecture and

they were they were really
blown away by that so

you're onto a good thing here.

Recall Ours is a kind of idea about how
we've been working for the last few years

and I think there's an idea about
how the practice is set up which is

maybe you know typical of our
generation but this idea of

the academic aspect of it of teaching
which both myself and my partner do and

then the research aspect which is part of
the practice itself as well as overlaps

with the academic and then the practice
itself which is a building practice and

has been for the last twenty years so but
this kind of way of balancing between

these kind of disciplines has been
a really important way for us to in a way

think the practice how was the editor
of this book that we just finished

in the last two lines and for
him this idea of brick collage or

is an idea of your arm is the name of
the book which means kind of room for play

is the way we think about in the practice
this idea of experimentation about a kind

of open end in this approach
to each project so.

And discard about that is going to be
importance of being able to construct

things to be a Spearman to look
at technology emerging technology

old technology and materials and
think about how we can use that

in a way to drive
an architectural project.

So when we landed you know at the Tuesday
and and it was funny you know I mean

the twenty years ago Europe seemed to
be a really promising place to go for

a young practice.

And and
when we got there we started to look at

things like technology started as
Scott same starting to factories and

as we were doing them we would learn
about the things they produced and.

Introduction to technology tools.

Made us really curious about how we
could start to use these things for

producing our own architecture so.

Maybe when we were students we were like
this you know in the late eighty's when

software starting to emerge he would
use it to produce kind of architectural

form and then later down the process
think about how it might materialize and

what kinds of tools would produce
that in the meantime we might

find ourselves you know starting
with materials and tools and

in a kind of process driven approach see
what kinds of forms what kinds of forms of

specialization they might produce.

So this is idea of you know activity about
going around and shopping around for

different methods of doing things and

then with a kind of built in curiosity
what where that might lead us to

at the same time I think there's an idea
of collaboration of working with partners

who have techniques technologies which
we can use which we can appropriate

we started with Trump not trump to trump.

And which then lead to other companies
that we work with who may or may not

work with architects but have a kind
of interest in seeing their techniques.

Have architectural applications so.

That works you know in all sorts of
different places around the country cross

Europe where in a way we can to collect
these partners and then work with them and

then very much of that can then beginning
of a process front you know will go

into workshops with them and see how it
might produce a project at the same time.

Being in Europe we have a lot of
really good engineers in Germany and

in the U.K. and we work with
the engineers also in a kind of up front

process in terms of starting a project and
in a way thinking a project so

some of these cases sustainability
engineering or structural engineering.

Often have really the key kind of status
and how a project is thought about

how it's conceived at the same
time we use institutional partners

as a kind of place between say
starting a project and thing and

actually doing a building so often we use
exhibitions as a way of testing ideas or

projects these are a couple of examples
we'll be doing a summer house for

the Serpentine Gallery in
London in the summer but

these are and many exhibitions
that Venice but really for

us interesting ways of testing some of
these ideas and another thing we did

in the last few years to start to
produce these kinds of atlases and

you can also do this as students they're
very quick they're very cheap but

we like the idea of the Atlas almost like
constructing your own building catalogs so

we did this with the architect
architectural sociate in London so

we could do these very quickly very
cheaply and the focus was not so

much on any building that we did but
really about processes of construction and

the idea of verbs about doing something so
it's stacking your Falding or

cutting how that might produce a kind
of project so we sort of producing

these almost like you know like like
a manual or something and at the same time

these manuals were complemented by
exhibitions where we would accept.

You know some of these work pieces you
know almost like a natural science.

Exhibition where these are models.

They're often working the scale of one to
one that kind of work pieces where they

did have a kind of you know almost
like an encyclopedia or an archive.

But in a way for
ourselves you know for our practice so

you could activate these things you
could use them on a project or not.

But this became kind of an interesting way
of working in terms of gathering these

things at the same time there was
this kind of funny relationship

of learning from from industry but
the same time.

We were building for industry so we're
building lots of factories you know pretty

huge in southern Germany and Switzerland
which to us you know seem kind of

like a neglected building type
ology you know we knew about.

Factories in the twenty's for
Ford in Detroit.

Or near here in northern Italy but
it was you know it can be an interesting

project in terms of the workplace
how people work in factories What do

they produce How do they communicate
with each other and the same time

you know we could test these ideas
about materials and production.

Prefabricated concrete and
how you could use that to make

a large building and factories are kind of
interesting because they're never finished

you're constantly adding on to them so
it's a really kind of an interesting

building type of both in terms of its
content what they were building in these.

Spaces but also as a kind of
architectural project in themselves so

what we would do as we started to
discover some of these techniques or

Technologies was to use students and
we used to have students

in our office as in turns and we almost
run it like a studio so students would

fly from Berlin down to Stuttgart and
then look at a machine and start.

Testing capacities for
machine this is laser cutting

How fast can you cut something how
intricate what would be the economics of

producing something like that and then to
think about architectural applications so

this was the installation of the Swiss.

Architecture museum in Basel where we
took the tubes and started to rotate them

which could then be an idea for
an application for a façade.

Lot of focus on facade making in the last
few years also so whereby you know

kinetically rotating the tubes the project
has obviously kind of its That week

capacity like a more a at
the same time as a performative

capacity as sun protection
produces kind of transparency or

Pasadena for this strong room in Sweden
but that's like a really compressed

path in terms of starting in you know
really almost a naive way about how to use

it to a material but then to move quickly
how you might be able to exploit that and

use it in a building some of
the things we do is to revisit

historical projects so
in a way space frames.

Were historical for

us if you thought about Buckminster Fuller
pay in the sixty's and seventy's and

then we would think well how could you
kind of rethink that project digitally or

even parametrically in different
materials from steel to concrete so

that as we're doing competitions
you know in the European seeing

we try to embed research projects
within that So this was for

a museum in Zurich that we
designed a kind of structure for

both the facade and the roof so in this
case the space frame makes the facade for

the building at the same time there
was a kind of climactic idea for

a space here would be a different
temperature and humidity that and the.

Gary spaces over here so that you're
doing these competitions win lose or

draw are there is still some kind of
a some kind of value in these projects for

us in terms of studying them.

As it was kind of hinting at I mean
we like really really big models and

working one to one but
also going back and looking at historical

models I such as kind of Roxanne's hangers
that he was working on forty's fifty's and

sixty's as a kind of idea for a kind
of mega structure a super structure so.

That.
Might be a reference in a project like

this is a competition for exhibition hall
for steel they make these really nice

chainsaws in southern Germany so
and it was also a kind

of attitude about technology I mean if we
need high tech we use high tech if we want

to use low tech then we'll use low tech So
the idea for the project was to use or

change size they had a forest
where they could in a way harvest.

Pine trees from their forest and
then our idea was to very simply

use the trees to strip the bark off
of them to make a kind of space train

out of logs so I mean for me coming from
my town it was a very obvious way to work.

But to make sure room for
them next to their old fifty's office

building which we also required with a new
facade idea but to really use the tool

in a completely direct way to
construct an architecture for

them so in a way like Vox ones plans for
play could be extremely

flexible they could have exhibitions
they could have events there and

then be covered by this long span
timber structure that we could also

build really cheap and
we could build it really really quickly.

We in the time frame and then have this
kind of activity here terms of testing and

showing you know chainsaws.

In that space.

That's what they do they can
juggle them in everything.

So when we did that for
us was a very obvious kind of

path in terms of really
looking at what they did and

then coming up with an architecture
that would fit for that and

these are these companies which
means they're family owned companies

the architecture is really important
in terms of representing their ideas

so another thing that we DID YOU KNOW
IT'S IMPORTANT exhibitions you know for

architects and gets you know you know your
models and drawing so much anymore but

really use exhibitions to create a kind of
architecture at the scale of a gallery so.

Structural project was one
where we used scripting to

laser cut plexiglass so it's cut would
produce two pieces which would be

tangent to each other and
then to construct a kind of environment

in the gallery through these pieces
that we would then animated by light so

as you know light travels through
plexiglass and then the actual edge of

the cut would be where the light
would come through the space.

With this other idea of sort
of two cutting another one was

you could scroll cut.

That would then start to produce a radius
like a catenary arch and then to look for

applications for it so in a way and I was
talking to Scott about this earlier but

this is kind of a typical project in the
office where we're going to students from

G.S.T. and pan and just we were asked to
do opinion for the German architecture.

Museum in Frankfurt so

students just made you know millions
of ideas about if you had machine.

It can make you know a radio complex arch
what kind of forms could you make so

again the invention of
a digitally defined radius R.

to produce all of these different kinds of
models then you know we selected one that

we like and then you know then at some
point went to the structure of the you

know again at the beginning really with
a structural engineer looking at a way how

to produce this how to
produce it with skin also so

what we did is we went to the museum we
built we mark this up at a scale of one to

one we had a little clip that
fastened on to the steel

each piece could be unique and
then found a way to easily

attach Plexiglas shingles to it so you
just put a kind of piece of Delco behind

it you can just stick stick it on to
the holders here so we can skin the whole

thing you know within a couple of hours
and you know the rain would go over it

you could put you know full of A C L
cells on it if you wanted to so

that was you know kind of process
of again a kind of discovery

of a machine that would make me Reeses and
then looking at the kind of baseball and

formal models that would make.

Think it is a project and a work in
progress and been working on for the last

year this is the first integration of it
in an exhibition we did in Berlin and

the idea of it was a kind of vertical
space frame where we took two millimeter

stainless steel rods and
then started bundling them together and

we tried to weld them but it took
forever it was almost impossible so

we just ended up taking zip clips
you know like for a garbage sack and

clip the whole things together but
it became an interesting project

in the sense of a kind of vertical
structural that was almost

demure to your eyes because it was so
fine and the reflectivity of a.

We taught ourselves how to build these
things in a kind of mass production

mode where you could fasten and put these
things together but the idea of a kind of

structural rate and then discovered we
could attach a roof to it in the floor

it almost you know like an idea
I suppose of a labyrinth so

from the component the bundles we could
produce like almost like a domino

type structure with a very
lightweight would play I would

roof and
plywood floor to produce a piece so.

And what we did is we built it this is our
studio so we just built it in our studios

at a skill one hundred one which I mean
I saw a lot of that today with your

work I mean because you have so much space
here you can you can build this way which

we could test the scale of it we could you
know we put a bunch of sandbags on top of

it to see how much weight you
could put on it before it crushed

how it worked in terms of
light how it worked spatially.

You know how it works for
lunch breaks you name it whatever so.

Then the sort of next step in this project
which is what we working on right now

is to look at the project at a much larger
rate so if that was like the one to one

piece that we produced we looked at it in
this case literally like a domino system

where you could keep adding to the project
to produce almost like a mat scheme or

you know look at the scale of maybe like
a small village or something like that and

what that scale would be and what kinds of
arrays we could produce with the idea so

so as a work in progress you know now
we're sort of shopping around for

a venue a place where we could
construct this where we would have

more space to do it but again for

us it's a kind of experimental
architecture that is somehow parallel.

To do the other projects we're
doing in the office but.

At the same time has you know kind of
impact on the way we think about our other

projects this idea of collaboration
is is one that kind of jumps over

disciplines a few years ago we had one of
the competition for design house in Munich

for a B.M.W. and the head of design
at the time was Chris bangle.

American from Wisconsin and
he had invented this really strange car

which was called rather than
metal car skin for Gina It had

a lasting fabric for
it so Chris's idea was.

You could in a way configure the car you
wanted to in terms of the components of

the car but
also in a way the shape of the car so.

We thought it's a cool idea for
for architecture for a car but

I mean even more so for architecture so
we ran this at a studio at the G.S.T.

for lightweight housing so
in a way kinetic so

you could have a house to get bigger or
smaller you could you could add to it.

In cost very much it was lightweight and
run that way somewhere in between we

tested this idea as the kinetic was so
for man it was for this was for

Rem Koolhaas is elements of
architecture being Ali last year.

So we built the kinetic wall
in the context of his wall so

so in a way you have an arc of
walls from you know extremely

archaic ones a stone
wall brick walls kind of.

Things affected by modernism critical
partition wall you know very big

glass partition wall and then you know
maybe a little tongue in cheek looking at

a kinetic wall something that might
happen you know in the near future so

I mean we did this ridiculous model and
then showed it to RAM and he.

We loved it and but it really wasn't so
much about making a wall but

the idea of the kinetic aspect is
something that would change the section

you know how that changes the space
between our wall and another wall so

and and this was something
that really came out of.

Chris is you know research for a car
idea but the idea was that it would have

a front to it that you would experience
as a surface as you walked along and

behind it is kind of the nuts and
bolts of the machines that push the skin

a timber space frame that
holds everything together.

But in a way for us maybe is a different
way of thinking about a building block

that you could add two or three or four
of these you can make a roof out of this.

And that also overlapped with
our studio ideas for the G.S.T.

in terms of new kind of housing so it had
that it was a surface it was translucent

it was made of it was pretty cheap.

It wasn't easy to put it together but but
as a kind of again work in progress or

you know thinking about an architecture
that we haven't quite sorted out but but

using these exhibitions
to get to that point so

in the meantime I mean we are doing.

Building projects that again
are informed by that research

aspect of the practice so
I mean it's probably a good example we did

a few years ago was in Korea which
is the so-called true tech building

we've never built in Asia where we had no
idea of what context might mean there.

And it was basically this kind of Instant
City master plan where they were really

building buildings left to right so
it's kind of core and show buildings so

it wasn't about detailing every
single aspect of the building but

coming up with the idea of it and
it was about the time of the practice also

the idea of facade making or
facade as a kind of architectural site.

It in its own right was a way of
thinking and working so in this case

it was to use reflective
glass as a kaleidoscope.

As a way of assimilating the building
into a kind of emerging or

unknown context to have a visual effect so

no matter what's happening cars driving
by or the weather changing the facade

would respond to it so
when we were students in Cambridge.

We really like you know a building
like Hancock Building which you know

famously had this reflective glass
skin in the seventies and you know it

has kind of you know relationship to the
historical buildings around it at the same

time what really fascinates us about it is
it was never perfectly flat you know there

was always this little bit of
distortion in the surface that.

This kind of strange kind of ability to
camouflage itself into this context so.

But rather than a deficit we saw that as
a kind of positive thing so what we did is

we start to make one to two markups in our
courtyard so this is our offices behind

and realize in a really really flat
surface you can get an amazing amount of

kind of visual distortion again
like a like a kaleidoscope So so

the idea was to take again you know
underground parking here off that core.

Was like a veil to wrap the Korn
shell building with this skin

that would have this ability to kind of
mediate between you know fairly private

into your program
an extremely public exterior

as a kind of work live play so
in this slide you kind of see

these lots being prepared for
the next phase of construction that.

Didn't matter what the neighbors would be

contextually the building would somehow
respond to that so a lot of it was.

Metrics of working it out figuring out

you know how big of a piece
of glass we could use.

Finding a fabricator in career bringing
the glass from the states from Minneapolis

working with the grid adding this idea of
diagonals combining a three dimensional.

Crystal shape but side piece with a two
dimensional one taking one type in

food being it upside down so
you get incredible amount of complexity

with at the end of the day really
just to kind of basic types and

then you know how special invitation here
with entrances show rooms down here but

and something it was also about kind of
shifting to a different building culture

you know in like Germany you could do
this but you know but it would be so

expensive they would want to do it and it
would be the building code or anything so

shifting you know to a different place we
could do a completely different kind of

skin surface solution for a project
like this to explain the geometry to

ourselves we started building large scale
wooden models are going to figure out how

everything could connect in again
this fairly flat building section.

We combined C.N.C. technology with
just off the shelf aluminum window

extrusions and then just by cutting
them we could generate this kind of

geometry for
this building to do this we brought

in from Hong Kong they did workshops
with the Korean fabricators So

I mean it was really super exciting for
us to just kind of drop in and

away from Marise to sort career and

work with local fabricators with
you know some European expertise

to produce a façade system that for
us you know for anybody really was.

Completely unique and
doing it on time and budget and

all the stuff to task to do a mock up and
blast it you know with wind and

water you know typhoon strength.

To get it to work and then and then get
permission to go into a kind of very quick

production runs of staging these
pieces and bringing them on site so

again it sort of dawned on us you know
they were really beyond the kind of

building catalog tradition and could
actually start to construct buildings for

ourselves in a really unique.

Way and not in our backyard you know
going to go places that were for

us quite quite exotic and be able to
operate both as a kind of an object but

also in these kind of interior lofts.

To produce kind of a new for us kind of
a new idea about what office space could

be like and how it could be experienced
and then you know in a façade it could

change it could become highly reflective
it could be transparent at night and

it could be affected it could
also be stolen by Chanel.

And trying to sue them you know we
all we wanted was the shoes and

we threatened to sue them and
then they threatened to sue us and

we said well you have a kind of
chronological problem you know we actually

did the building before you
did the spring collection so.

We will talk about patents later.

So but this is the building again as if
you mean it would respond to cars people

walking by changes in the weather
insane window watchers washers.

Advertising But you know so really you
know really wasn't about the building

being about you know a fetish about detail
making but it was really about kind of

service that could you know be animated
by you know just an environment that.

It's constantly for
us was unpredictable and changing.

In that kind of context and
as a curtain wall that could wrap and

continue roof garden in these kinds
of details so as well as you know

huge windows that could open almost
like barn doors or an entrance here and

then kind of in terms of detail the facade
of the suspended stair on the interior and

then a version of the facade
as a lobby wall in the in

the interior so.

At the same time you don't think things
are jumping back to Germany I mean this

kind of a typical situation where we've
been working with this company you

know for the last fifteen years both
renovating buildings adding buildings

along the the Autobahn here where in
a way this idea of the green factory

where you could add to this building.

At least until you crash into
talers here the neighbor here but

in a way buildings that can be added to
other buildings which we were doing which

were more one off like solitary buildings
like this continue building here but.

But in a way this place has
really been like a laboratory for

us in terms of doing different kinds of
buildings different type all of these

different kinds of technical
solutions we'd like a like a really

a large capice where we could could work
one of the buildings we wanted to do for

Triumph was to.

To use their technology in an even
more direct way to use the laser

cutting to produce a good
house to this campus.

Historically you know we
were thinking of you know

friends are going to
prove a from the fifty's.

Who was working in metal sheet metal and

were thinking well you know he had
the technology would we do today so

the gate house is this this gigantic
County of a project to work with stuff.

Near van or so back it sits on these
four columns here in compression and

tension there is a gigantic you know
kind of weight in the ground so

it doesn't tip over.

Going into the project we discovered you
know the trunk was it was making things

like this which could scalable you know
it could be like the deck for a ship or

it could be a tabletop and they were laser
cutting this and welding it extremely

light very quickly and so the question was
could you take this and think about it at

the scale of a building so
as a point of departure is something they

would be familiar with so inspection you
see there CAN WE were the building this is

kind of a giant counterweight over
here and then to create a facade for

it to be entirely made of
glass just just completely

a glass curtain long so what we did was.

We started inheriting these.

You know loading diagrams from various
artists which we always really fascinated

by these drawings but maybe you know
like in a more literal way like how

could the building visually
you know very sort of directly

represent the kind of logic of you know
loading the compression tension so

what we started to do was raise or
cut one to fifteen models that.

Took on that idea of lightness at
the end of the camera lever and

more compactness at the loading points
from the loading drawings that we

inherit the same time other
layers in project in this case.

The thickness of the wall became a giant
light source we could put lighting within

the depth of that structure so
as a gateway it could show.

Exactly how it was constructed it worked
as a kind of almost like a giant lantern

so like so many other projects we built a
one to one to understand how to fasten it.

You know integrate
the gutter into the project.

Built all these things offsite and
then brought them inside and

then just lifted the WHO roof and
one piece and then dropped it on the four

columns so in a lot of that was kind
of translating this sort of apparent

simplicity of the piece that they
had before the laser cut piece into

something that you know needs expansion
joints and you know all the complexities

of making into the building you know
it had a kind of reverse camber So

we put these sandbags on to
the roof to kind of you know.

Line up into a single line historically we
were interested in translating the idea of

that's how they make fences in Germany and
have a lot of time.

So these kind of logs
between pickets Our idea was

to translate that into these.

Plexiglass troops which variant side which
then we could sandwiched between two

layers of glass to produce these curtain
was so it had a kind of ornamental fact

the same times it had to perform in effect
in terms of being the Sun shading for

the spaces in here and then and then
like I said is entirely made of glass so

even the posts are made
of laminated acrylic so

in the daytime or
nighttime the entire facade is.

In a way completely translucent or

transparent so
in order to do this we had to.

Invent a detail for it so you have
this kind of double facade here with

sun protection all that stuff
which is of course very fragile.

So if it snows like two meters on the end
of the county roof it won't crush

the facades who built this kind of
accordion gasket So those two things could

move independent from each other so
but it was you know this

kind of pleasure of kind of going through
a project where with the engineers.

You can invent the kind of material.

Idea structure idea the project but all
the kind of technical resolutions details

that make the building work and
make sense at the same time.

We are also we did the campus
restaurant for the company and

these cantinas you know in these twenty
companies it's usually a really horrible

cafeteria in the basement of a factory
where they have terrible German food.

Here the idea was to transform the
cafeteria in a way to an event space so

they use it for that for meeting for
communicating for events for music for

speeches for
you know Christmas parties whatever and

the idea then was to this idea of kind of.

Structural idea was to to look at cell
structures and hierarchies of cell

structures and how that might make a wide
span structure so with our students you

know right off the bat you know we were
looking at you know like timber way and

you know it steel structure or
you know concrete structures and

then started to look at the hybrid
structure of timber and steel and

then through to think about
the roof as a kind of filter.

For daylight in the space and

then it seemed to start working rather
fabricators and these guys are.

In their down the Black Forest and
there are these amazing kind of timber

fabricators so so they were keen on
this project and working with this so

within weeks we could go down there and
start doing mock ups with them so

you know so this will sound bite is really
the idea of teaming up with those guys and

figuring out you know where you could see.

Honeycomb structure in a really
really complex way and

then combining it with steel which is
you know super strong to get these wide.

Band so so these images are really about

the production runs down in the black
forest so they were doing this run for

us in the other Bay They were running
to grow bands Pompidou project.

This is going to areas like taking
all our drawings on board and

redrawing the thing started building
a mock up you know looking for

a place you know to make it you know
dumbed down details of who to complex

making simpler and then ended up building
the mock up into the building so

which means we could build things really
fast and pretty economically so these

are the pieces coming from the factory on
site and we would use these little helper.

To put it up quite quickly so
the idea of the building is

to make a deal you know in this campus but
not so much as an object but.

As a roof you know almost like a leaf.

Over.

And so the whole campus is
connected at a town level so

in cold weather everything you know be
connected and to use the roof to enclose

a double height space here which you enter
in a kind of minus four metre level and

then have a mezzanine over it so
this is the other bond over here

the idea of the landscape is that it
comes under the building and then out and

then the roof floats over that space and
then the roof or

has a kind of structural depth to it
that allows us to condition the light

that comes through it so again once we had
the steel up we could construct this quite

quickly you could sort of target
different structural pieces for

it and then you know so
we're just on the second but

this idea of an open plan that could
change and then by putting the building

slightly underground we generated this
mezzanine level here there is only one

core in the building we use these current
groups of two or three columns to kind of

stiffen the roof laterally so
it wouldn't tip over and then.

All of the cells could have a kind of
status so they could be skylights or

they could be artificial lighting or
acoustical

cells within this whole kind
of matrix of the structure so

so in a way the ceiling of the space
is extremely articulate very specific

in terms of you know what those each
one of those cells is at the same time.

The planet samples a kind of open plan
we could use it for a cafeteria or

for event space but it's also the first
building really where we design

all the pieces the precast concrete stairs
we designed a tile floor at the furniture

I mean we came up with a new facade
idea for the project which had

these two different kinds of spaces a kind
of double height space and then a kind of

overflow space in this mezzanine which
is much much lower within that So

again you know jumping around
activating different fabricators.

I mean there's a real long tradition
in this country for terra cotta.

Surrounding buildings particularly don't
turn of the century the last century you

can find ceramic people who make
a custom tile for you that are not so

expensive both as a kind of exterior
cladding and in this case also for

into your one and so again we could kind
of shop around find replicators to make

in the case of this building all
of the all of the components for

it again the idea of unlike the factory
buildings which we're all adding on to

as a kind of you know social center for
this.

Campus where everybody can meet you know
the blue color group blue collar guys

workers and the white collar workers can
all come here and sort of overlap so.

In the meantime.

I mean.

We were.
Doing factory three years in years and

then in the last few years.

We started working in Berlin which
is maybe typical of working and

living in the town you are usually
don't do that much work there and

with the change of the city planning
director we found ourselves doing more and

more projects in Berlin and so
this is one of the first ones we did

which is an office building for
French energy company.

Near the train station and
it was in the context of

a whole new path master
plan here to the south or

the north area of the train station here
so the building was getting a lot of

attention from the press and politically
it was important you know that the city

was not just doing these very
cheap hotels around the.

Station but
an architecture of a higher quality so.

Maybe like the Korean project
it's also a Korn shell building

we knew the sort of focus on the facade
would be extremely important so

in a way we looked at historical
facades in Berlin and

you have to remember really
you know when like New York or

Chicago has a real strong
tradition of high rise making so.

So in a way if you thought of
something like the Chicago frame

as a load bearing facade was in
a kind of we started think about it

the same time we didn't want to do it
in you know a little historical way.

But we're interested in the kind of
precast concrete being differentiated

within this skin so
in the skin you know the windows

from a sustainability point of view it
made sense you could have operable windows

you could generate opaque surfaces that
you can insulate better you could hide

the sun screens on the exterior
in that facade and then to detach

the building as a tower from the lower
buildings which is kind of the typical.

Berlin type ology of tower in
a twenty two meter high base and

they create this pedestrian.

Passage so
it was a way of I guess looking at a.

Master Plan not being set in stone but

something that could adapt to the Pacific
of this building and the client so

he said it's a load bearing facade
with a relatively calm free interior

where all kind of you know performance
stuff happens within that facade.

Because of our you know how
with every cation we could.

Produce the form work for
the concrete outside of Frankfurt.

Which are very precise but then you know
a kind of funny other thing happened with

precast were you know historically
you do something in precast and

then you just repeat it
a thousand times and

we discover we could make one hundred
fifty unique pieces that were extremely

precise that had a really beautiful
finish as a kind of exoskeleton

structure in this process in making
the facade as a kind of low bearing

facade we had a can two story component
which offset kind of stitched together

structurally and then combined it with
you know almost kind of an origami K.

cut section that produced this kind of

visual dynamic in the facade so
that again it was somehow familiar

as a historical type the kind of
Chicago frame I guess we call it but

the same time has this kind of visual
dynamic of having a side work and

a kind of visual dynamic diagonal
around around the building.

That and also you know maybe you
know unlike say World Trade Center

the buildings there you know
seventy's flat flat glass facade.

This kind of depth in the facade.

Again where the sun protection is but for

us it's also a spatial depth both as
an exterior as a public facade but

also as an interior that you experience

like some of the other projects we've
been around and we designed a tile for

the interior of the building.

On.

Their.

Brains.

Tear with the ceramics here and
this stair details and then.

Have completed last week a second
building with a metal curtain wall that

now defines that pedestrian passage
between the two buildings but

you know we will be doing four buildings
at the train station each one.

Is a kind of variation on itself so each
one will have a slightly different idea

about the facade and
how it gets executed in this

assemblage of building so for
this was kind of injury shift from

industrial projects to your
much much more urban ones.

Now that another project which is
very much a kind of work in progress

is the smart materials house for
Hamburg and

this project which you start about
five years ago was a call for

affordable housing in Hamburg
outside of Hamburg proper and

it was called competition it was called
so-called smart materials house which

at the time didn't mean anything to
us I mean you know in the material

could be use of a smart way or
a stupid way but.

So.

We started using that as a premise for
setting up the project and

for housing and the idea was to
create a kind of precarious element

out of it for like concrete and
combine it with.

Timber So it was important that it would
be flexible space it would be domestic

space and had a kind of exterior
to it through these balconies so

I mean the first thing we did
we were there engineers like and

transfer Lars we went shopping you
know through all the kinds of you know

materials that were out on the market that
were allegedly smart you know from you

know public carbonates and and through
a lot of the experience of Mike we started

looking at him from like concrete In
feel like concrete is itself insulated

concrete the aggregate is clay or
recycled glass.

So in a way it's like one stop shopping
if you have a piece of this material

you don't need anything else it's you
know the fireproofing it's the structure.

It's the insulation and
then the idea of combining that with.

Timber which seems an Orthodox so so

that's the concrete when you cut
through it and that's a good.

That's a picture after
our Christmas party.

But you can take that material
right the glass and then

you could use that when it was recycled
as the aggregate for this material and

the material if you take a mature and
you put in a bath tub it will float at

the same time structurally
it was really really light.

We were interested in this idea of
prefabrication this is needed you know

looking at a model of a plant and our
part about how were these plate buildings

in the fifty's and
sixty's social housing in Eastern Europe.

With a limited number of components you
could produce these things in there were

but I mean there's miles and miles of
these things all over Europe at the same

time in the plant and
there was a kind of arts program where.

There were ornamental systems and bedded
within the kind of repetitive systems but.

So in a way we were really
kind of revisiting this.

As a kind of production idea but
also some of the geometrical

an ornamental systems within that
then all the sudden we realized with

this materials like the thicker it is the
better it is so it was like the opposite

of you know buildings you know from
the sixty's you know glass and

steel they want to be extremely
been in this case like returning to

because what we call push a that kind of
planned victimise which is a space on

right a very figure on one that was
kind of made logic to a project or

looking at other historical
projects like he's.

This kind of beautiful idea really of
a kind of figure all plan that could

have a kind of material substance itself
but make space in a very different way so

once we had them to roll the term and
we came up with this component.

Which would be like this so for us you
know it's kind of like a bureaucrat or

something and had a kind of reversibility
about it you could flip it upside down

would work the same way you could put all
the heating and cooling in it we made it

kind of so we could put it on the floor
stand up on its own you would need any

scaffolding to hold it up it would have
you know this kind of finish to it so

it was kind of the idea of you know one
stop shopping or multi-tasking element

that you can make architecture with so
we built these really large

models in our shop in this case is just
pink foam that you can cut easily with

you know like a wire wire and sort of
building these models and then realized

how strong these things were structurally
you could you could push on them and

they were incredibly stable you could you
could make each floor plan a little bit

different they would stand on top of each
other you know like a house of cards or

something but you know not simply
cards like really thick cards and

the Into You would have kind of
interior space with the concave.

Services would make these
balconies which were required and.

There are many who come up with a whole
new idea about low income you know

affordable housing that could be built
really cheap and really really quick.

So for us it had a scale you know
these for us it had a kind of you know

maybe human or a bit of a domestic
scale for for housing so with one or

two components you could produce a lot of
variation plexi you could combine these

with timber operable windows again
on a kind of timber floor and

then in terms of plan making you have this
kind of you know undulating perimeter wall

which is the insulation the structure and
then the insides you can do whatever you

want you can have like open up live loft
or if you like a bunch of walls you can

put a bunch of walls in here make it into
tiny little German you know keeping rooms.

And each floor could be slightly
different from the one above it so

there was this kind of logic of stacking
these things around a core that could

be done like a prototype so you could make
this one it could be four stories it could

be six stories you know you could build
it in Hamburg you could build it in

Helsinki it wouldn't really still working
still make sense and you could build it

just build everything off site and
then haul them with trucks and

then some of them quite quickly again
with the kind of limited number

of construction components
to produce it so.

So we went through this whole process of
you know showing it to a developer and and

you know we won some money from wholesome
this is the ability guys in Switzerland

they give us some money to start marking
up actual one to one pieces I mean we

knew had it again like some of these other
projects I mean we knew how to do weird.

Form work based on some
of our other projects so.

So hard once you made one form you
could produce you know forty or

fifty pores like this you
have different finishes for

them so
in a way even that was in a competition.

We could prove the viability of
the project quite quickly by constructing

these kinds of elements in
the meantime in Berlin we had

a housing crisis I mean if you think about
Berlin in the Cold War It was a shrinking

city people were leaving it the government
had to give you incentive to go there and

study and live there so in the meantime
there's a housing crisis in

the meantime in the last six months so
it's sort of a hyper crisis with

the refugee crisis we have a million
Syrians people from the Middle East

moving to Germany within the last
twelve months so in a way.

The miracle you know really I mean
this is it's every day is changing but

it has been seen as.

This this kind of crazy thing of so
many refugees coming through.

You know Germany of places slightly
smaller than Montana where I grew up with

eight hundred thousand people.

That so in a way in the east you have.

You have housing of N.P.
housing but no jobs and

then in the West in the south
a lot of jobs but no housing so.

So in a way we could continue working
with area for a light project

as a point how are to look at density so.

Right now and this is what we did
the stream of students is like

how do you add density in a city like
Berlin so you can build a skyscraper or

you can build on top of existing buildings
or you can build next to them or

you can build buildings
you know in between.

The spaces where the buildings were
destroyed in World War two But in this

case for urban living which is was an
initiative by the city planning director

about generating affordable housing
now housing for students and.

And refugees.

So the idea was to look at
a prototype using their idea for

a kind of point high rise so this is
the car mark so they this is the Alexander

parts only this was like the kind of thing
the communist you're the kind of show.

Street you know for the SO for
this platen by this Marxist housing but

we found at the same time it's not
a particularly dense residential place and

it was in a particularly lively one is
fairly homogenous programmatically but

we discovered there was at least twenty or
thirty sites where you could drop in new

housing with out you know destructing
neighbors in terms of you know light for

air setbacks through
this kinds of types so

these are all the sites
that we found with more or

less the same kind of building type all
A-G. that you could you know thousands and

thousands of apartments without
having a negative effect on.

The neighbors.

So that one and
again some of these other buildings.

That these are adjacent to so in a way
there's going to be familiar in terms of

how they will be constructed in terms
of the production of materials but

also kind of familiar.

In terms of.

Even the kind of architectural language
of these buildings along the Kamarck so

way in this case that the engineering
adjusted slightly bad steel

rods into the concrete to produce a high
rise high rise in this case the concrete

is in you know embeds the rods it protects
them and stiffen them from buckling

to produce you know twenty or
twenty four storey high rises.

Quickly just to finish
on a couple projects.

Again using installation
as a way of getting to

you know an architectural
building project.

We produce in.

Solution for the alley.

In a site specific and the idea of
the installation was to provide kind

of public encounter has
a new Museum of Modern Art.

To make it kind of publicly available so

we've got a really
fantastic site next to the.

Mosque in America next to it in
this area of this room where we had

a five meter grid and
produced an installation.

And one of the things we did as
drawing this thing in Berlin and

then going to America to build it was.

You know hyperbolic structure you know
using a lot of software to produce

it at the same time and disappearing
ways of building it which were local and

kind of handmade so we looked at
a tradition of weavers as a possible

way of constructing this exhibition and
so we drew the thing digitally then

we made a large scale model in our
shop which is an idea of rule geometry

which is simply straight lines that
are set to each other that can produce

complex surfaces you know but
in a really simple way so.

Sort of way this is the grid that
we produce next to the mosque.

But I think for
us it's an insulation but for

us it's also a prototype so
we do produce these things but

there's a kind of open end in this where
you know maybe this becomes it becomes

we scaled it a different project or
it's the scale of say a factory or

you know in the north or could remit
to realize in steel or concrete.

This is Mohammed who was our foreman for
the project so he was an expert Weaver and

knew how to construct the piece how to
produce the kind of knots to make it so

this kind of collaboration with
the technology you know to us.

We had no idea how to do this
stuff made the project work so

we used local strip pine for
the scaffolding.

In this sucks we would find guys you know
who had well these really simple pieces

for us and we used donkey power you know
to get all the projects you know all

the material on to the site and then could
build the whole thing in two weeks so

this is the project when it was finished
which you could kind of move around or

you could move through
it as a kind of space.

And then again using very kind of
ad hoc ways of I mean these were

foundations which were just trays of
metal with rocks put into them and

again the spacing of the string or

yarn had to do with the amount of
time we had to produce essentially

a temporary installation.

So in a way that project led directly

into this one which we
finished a few months ago.

For the American Academy so you know
shifting from the south to the north we

were interested like some of these
other projects in a large you know

roof structure but
at the scale of a you know pretty small

pavilion the American economy is the over
here on the left is the historical villa

from the one thousand nine
hundred three along the lake and

you know very beautiful garden and.

For fellows to study so in a way it's
a kind of study where scholars could

come in here and have a kind of individual
place to be private and study or

they can open the doors and
come out to a porch and sit there and

hang out in meet other people and
then enclosed by the steel roof so

the translation was from of course
a scale but also one of translating to

a steel structure it's next to the strata.

Here from the forty's and
it's situated behind this wall so

in plan it's really simple
mistake America series of seven

Saudi Carroll's you know toilet in little
kitchen and then as a kind of I guess for

me an American idea study a porch around
it it's a little bit off the ground so

you can open your doors and sit on it and
work also in the nice weather and

then built out of you know a number
of limited components of the roof and

four columns which are also you
know the drain pipes for the roof

that cloud this extremely
precise you know laser cut

steel construction that
could produce this piece.

But very much also I suppose
in the tradition of.

European pavilions from you know.

Viewing in Zurich to you know Barcelona
pavilion things like this so.

So the structure is extremely light.

Stands across the spaces the sliding
rooms and then you know we feel that with

furniture from.

That then the idea was this kind of
too high it's the kind of door with

the sliding doors here and then the roof
as a kind of canopy that encloses

the whole space but then then we had
figured out how to do through the project

America project in terms of how to
do a complex hyperbolic roof for

the Project which works like that in
the daytime intonate night time the walls

kind of up light and light sort of
emphasize the roof as a continuous

surface and then this study space is
you can you can close the curtains and

study and it kind of individual space here
again if you want to you can come out and

use the space and
the extra year so I suppose you.

One of the ideas a project like this
is has been this idea to work between

different scales of projects and different
kinds of focus and intensive detail

in the kind of tectonics of the projects
so which is in a way I think

helps keep the project you know
quite lively for for a so.

It's a slightly different lecture
than I did the other night but

I want to show you what that means for us
in terms of the kind of research aspect.

The fabrication aspect of the project and
how that might find itself or situated

itself and in the kinds of building
project we're doing the practice also so

thanks again for the invitation and
it's fantastic to be here thanks.

To

a.

You know it's a good question I mean it's
having a lot of difference because I

mean what you didn't
see is the lectures for

the other night is I mean there's a lot
of temporary housing right now so

in places like the Tempelhof the airport
from the thirty's is filled with

two thousand refugees so there's a kind of
ad hoc temporary housing so what I said

would be the next step which would be more
permanent but it's such a fast moving.

Situation it's yet to be seen if the
Syrians will actually go to back to Syria

in the fifty's and sixty's you had
migration from Turkey the so-called guest

workers those communities stayed and
built their own communities in Berlin and

so it's you have to be seeing if
that's a can a temporary condition or

it's going to be a permanent one I'm
guessing a majority will integrate

you know through work through into
that society if people leave again

they're still studied the demand for
housing in Berlin in Germany so.

I don't expect occupancy for people
migrating in migrating our I think they'll

be a constant demand and so whether it's
refugees students or the simple need for

affordable housing I think
they'll always be a pressure so.

And so the things we design and
build will.

Are flexible enough to accommodate
those those different situations

no matter who who that might

be.

You know.

Yeah yeah yeah that's true
that I mean it really

flattened out you know when I
would have practice you know

as an intern you know hundred years ago
it was much more I recall and I think.

What happens now is students come in
then they know things we don't know so

I think I think the hierarchy like.

There was a couple projects like
the project with the Penn students and

they used to.

They brought in skills that we
don't didn't have so in a way.

They can work pretty independently or
offer something new and so

in a way I think.

That works out really well so
in terms of setting up these kind of

study projects in the practice I mean
I'd like that idea of apprenticeship but

also the idea of running a studio
within the the practice so

it's easy to send them down someplace
to and have them do a survey and

say new technology and
then they'll come back and report to us.

So that's that's changed quite a bit
in terms of what an internship

with that person might be what the.

Might do so that's I mean in
a very optimistic way it's a way

of rather than us going out and telling
the world what we're doing bringing

them in and they inform a lot of
the processes that we're doing so

that's kind of really exciting
change then the other

question the middle stand which
is family owned companies.

Which I guess maybe eight years ago
you would find in this country so

they passed on from
generation to generation and

so these are places they're really
proud of and not just simply.

Place kind of thing but

also they understand the idea
of architecture is a tool for.

Attracting people to work
there to be competitive so so

companies like I would be which definitely
isn't family own but they'll come

to us and say you know what's architecture
and what's master planning and

how can that make what we do better you
know in terms of attracting talent or

the work process or
I mean it's quite quite interesting so

I think you kind of see
that across the board with.

These kinds of companies in Germany and
then I think as you saw on a couple

examples some how their technology
being part of the architectural process

whether it's you know chainsaws or
you know laser tools but.

There's a kind of I don't know
where it's also this idea of

patronage maybe I mean when you're
actually working with a person or four or

five persons and not a committee or
not a shareholder a stockholder I mean

there is that there's a completely
different dialogue so.

So I think architecture is given
a different kind of status in terms of

what it can do for them not simply to.

Not in the kind of Richard by way of
having you know a beautiful pristine

architecture but in a way the work place

you know in a way there's a really a
social component about the work place and

how that plays out in
architectural setting and

how the architectural you know again for
some factories they broke down the idea

of white collar blue collar but
he was together so how people work.

Has Changed.

In Berlin last week and so

the Tesla plant in Arizona which
is a mega mega structure and.

You know what does that mean

you tell actually is it just
a gigantic big box project or.

Do people actually work there or
is it just robots and

most of these companies we work for
there they have robots but they also have

a lot of people that work in them and
how that works so I think that helps give

architecture a kind of it instrumental
is that in a completely different

way.

To microphone to

yeah.

Yeah absolutely yeah it's not it's not
always linear like we do this we do

this we do this and we got that I mean
we did the show table doing a large

hotel project and
it was really about being in the.

You know it was like a building
of the scale a master plan

most of this really about modeling that
thing as an idea and then it went and

now it's going to building scale so
he's got a jump cutting.

Across work areas in the sense
that you do what you need to do

to get the result you want so
it's not always.

You know sometimes it's material to
form to space to program sometimes it's

modeled you know.

There's different ways of connecting
the dots I think in terms of process but.

It's kind of nice for us because it's so
differentiated I mean the projects are so

different in this calles and
the strategies are so different so keep.

I don't know I mean you know I mean it's
a kind of like the you never have to

worry about being signature office or

something because the projects
get set up but I think.

You know I don't know made me think
going back to the twenty's you know

you're always looking for.

Something new tool something to drive an
architectural idea so we do like it when

there is a possibility that something some
kind of tax that's generational that helps

generate a project whether and sometimes
contacts which sounds old fashioned but

sometimes it could be a landscape that
generates a project sometimes it's

a technology that might inform and
result in how it so I think.

You know that you know that somehow that
keeps things maybe even more honest for

us.

To find what those instruments are in
setting up a project and then using that

to to drive an outcome.

I could with the limited Skinner back

on.

OK great.

You know yeah I know there's
little triangle Yeah

it's not always perfectly symmetrical it
gets kind of squishy you know sometimes

yeah there's something that's kind
of moving around and changing

and.

You know.

Your.

Great.

Great let's talk.

About yeah yeah.

I really.

Think.

Yeah yeah yeah.

Yeah yeah yeah and I think it's
really interesting because I think.

You know everybody said if you work with
our students they make our you know your

music through his Maker and there's always
that gap between the academic studio and

you know I hate to say the real world or
something but

I think that's one thing
we try to do is to try to.

Yeah yeah yeah that's.

Yeah.

It's great.

Yeah.

You know now I totally agree.

I really enjoy it.

I just.

Enjoy the.

Process.

Yes.

You know.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah yeah yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I.

You know yeah.

You know it's really you know.

OK.

You.

Know I think I mean I remember
when I was a student you know in

the middle of nowhere in Montana and.

You know we took structural
engineering classes it was about

doing formulas you know I mean it
was just something I had to do and

it was years later in practice we started
working with threats from years where

you know that might be a structure
that might be an architectural idea.

And it was so exciting you know in this
with engineering you know the structural

debt up the neck could be a space and
they could be Program and all this and

these these things that used
to be obligations became.

Work areas that you know could be
you know an architectural idea could

be an idea about sustainability could
be an idea about structure could be

an idea about a mechanical system and
that kind of inclusiveness was so

excited when you when we talked the eight
or you would you were constantly kind of

going across those boundaries and
it went from being you know I would geisha

into being a kind of opportunity or
it's series of opportunities that was.

So fabulous that you know it's like I'm
going to turn the lights on or something.

At that point it was so interesting but
I think predicting the context of

a school like this I think you have so
many resources and you have so

much opportunity to kind of create
a vitality that that way so

and you know and you can you have
spaces and you can work on hands on and

you can do I thought things you know build
it the scale of one to one and I me.

Man you can you can do a lot.

Of what you want.

Through several projects.

Just to avoid that is to know it was
the pavilions you did when you were doing

the laser and you know we kind of deal and
these are just like.

You curious what your side is we
are talking technique of material and.

Literary skill building with
the rotating two that never got built.

Several years later in
the Barcelona tower precast

pieces that shows up again yeah
yeah it's not metal it isn't

laser you know but
it's the same kind of like you know or

recast to create the same kind of
boring routine Yeah you know so

to me that's a material study that you
might think has no relevance to where

you are later it can resonate
through different you're completely

you know I thought that was
yeah I don't see that our.

Christmases see it but
yeah it was amazing Yeah

yeah.

Right.

You know.

Like.

Resources is always the stuff
we don't get paid for.

You know.

So.

Yes.

Well I thought well I mean when you can.

Find an application for it then it becomes
a lie but I said I said you need a certain

amount of freedom I guess of
doing it that it doesn't.

I mean our research you know it's not like
ten people with white lab coats you know

that so often in a car can do it every
day I mean it's a really dynamic in fluid

there are sometimes it's nobody sometimes
it's ten people sometimes it's sponsored

by you know things like serpentine
house we're doing our Sometimes it's

aligned with an actual ongoing
project sometimes with competition and

sometimes in some guy you
know some student just

throwing pots on a wheel in the basement
you know just the hell of it so

it's very somewhat informal in terms
of what it is and how it gets done but

there's usually something going through
a bit but the first part of the.

Presentation or the idea of the Atlas
of the archive is kind of where that

stuff goes and I think it's got was saying
sometimes it gets activated right away

sometimes five years later sometimes never
at all so I think there is this idea of

maybe that's the encyclopedia
part of producing this stuff and

using it but how it gets done is
one question and then what it is

maybe is the next question and
then the third one is can you use it or

or or not so but it's you know
somehow it's an activity that

you know it's an exercise it's important
for us because the tendency is you know

you have all these forces on you
know economics get things done.

Don't be experimental So it's a thought
maybe it's a form of resistance.

To the you know the building culture
the building market clients developers

who are not always you know
encouraging that so so it is

a kind of space that we had to set up but
also have to protect protect in a way.

In the practice but.

Yeah it's a much more dynamic and
unpredictable one then you know doing

projects you know building projects.

At the end of the day yeah yeah I think
yeah that's part of the set up and

I would say.

That in the form of resistance right
status quo most people do projects in

Berlin and so
that also is part of the identity of what

we are you know what the practice is.

So much.

So.

Yes and.

Yes.

And you know from.

Your.

Response to.

You.

Well we're going as I mean I mean I
mean context is one issue I mean Urban

is another one I mean that there
would be another rector and

we did we have in the last five or ten
years start working on master plans and

urban scale projects and.

Not just OK.

You know.

I.

Respond.

Difference.

When your.

Own the present show today.

I mean something like Korean Not
at all I mean it's almost

was without any kind of
context other than up down.

North south so apart I think that exists
almost without a context other projects.

I'm trying to think of the project
of today maybe the tower right I

mean that was an idea of adapting to
a master plan it was also an idea of

adapting to views and orientation and
you know all of these things

that project would say would
being more context drawing

the sense.

Here.

I think so yeah I mean the like
this one ritual is one.

More bottom up I mean from material the
tools to a kind of building block and then

and then siting them and
then through the siding as you say.

They can then start to differentiate
self was left right up down So

I think in that case it would
start later in the process

versus other projects but in public.

Would start with those conditions of
site as a kind of starting place so

I think where a project starts and
stops depends on the set up but

is addressed it does become a kind of
probably threw down the row the line and

some of the Kamarck you know
the point towers for example.

That's information that gets put in
maybe at a later stage in the process.

You know we're doing a building right now
which is a logistics building which is

giant storage and it's a huge building and

two people working it and then so
we just treat it as a site so

on top of the building we build
a fitness studio you know.

It was yeah so there's this weird kind of.

Connection between almost no occupancy
of the gigantic building and

using it almost as if it was a site to put
it another activity it's quite active but.

You do find these kind of weird
juxtapositions of no occupation and

a kind of hyper occupation of different
points depending on how they're doing I

mean I think it ran showed last week at
Tesco You know I mean it was gigantic and

I think it was almost eighty percent so
what does that mean Urban is thickly

What does that mean architecturally
really you don't need skylights you don't

you mean you don't like an architecture of
almost warehousing certain activities but

they're not I guess about
a kind of human activity.

So you end up again with these kind of
sites within a larger site that's about

a very different idea of production and
activity.

Future and I don't know.

The humans running the robots
in most of these things.

We don't you don't we don't like it and
then we don't like it's all about

how you get something made so in a way the
stop drawing has superseded the rendering

you know we're not so much interested in
we have to do them for certain reasons but

we're less interested in
drawing is representing or

giving an impression of something and
we're more interested in drawing as.

You know into an instrument
to construct something.

Yeah yeah.

Yeah we make a model then we make a rhino
model of it we give it to a fabricator

they draw how they understand it send it
back to us we sign them they build it you

know that's what driving is for
us now you know.

Very well.