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>> And it's my honor and privilege to introduce to you this afternoon Professor Dana Bunn truck whose lecture will be followed by an opening of the exhibition season upstairs immediately afterwards there's a lot to say about Dana. I hope at the risk of embarrass not embarrassing her not the least of which is her generosity of spirit and I owe quite a lot to her myself from my 1st trip to Japan when she opened tons of doors for me arranging me for to meet people to visit to visit buildings and even helping me line up accommodations and I'm not the only person who's been a benefactor to her the benefactress of in fact he that's it.

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Even this past summer Dane and I went to the shrine city say together and we were able to visit an amazing new project of Sana in Soroka the cultural center which is just nearing completion. You could say that a motto for Dana is Dana opens doors. Like that.

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This has intellectual registers as well she studied architecture at Tulane and then at Michigan she's taught at Carnegie Mellon and i T. has done a number of postdocs in Christie just fellowships in Japan at various universities there and for the past several years she's been at U.C. Berkeley where she's become full professor and she also chairs the Center for Japanese Studies.

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In her 1st book Japanese architecture is a collaborative process opportunities in a flexible construction culture the book was a bit of a groundbreaking account of contemporary construction in Japan and it involved countless hours that she spent on job sites of important buildings as they were being constructed around Japan hours that she spent watching and documenting the process talking to architects but not just.

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Also the contractors the. The producers of various materials that were involved etc etc and you can say that she knows design and construction both from the ground up and that she knows it from diverse cultural perspectives and it's no wonder that to construction courses that she teaches at Berkeley are enormously popular even better she gets the students out in the field on job sites where their project is to study a project under construction and they get to document and interview people learn firsthand what's involved in that whole process she's also currently working in the industry sorry in the energy industry and energy use in contemporary Japanese architecture and her talk this afternoon is related perhaps more to that called what could go wrong and I think it's extremely timely that today marks the 100 year anniversary of the great Boston molasses massacre.

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Where something very much went wrong. One of the things that's interesting about this building is that. It kind of it could have happened at any time and dose work you don't look at on those who are can see any kind of a clear evolution except for an evolution in scale and location is it got more and more famous he worked more and more abroad his buildings have bigger and bigger and more complex but a lot of ways the moves are pretty straightforward and he's playing the same game he plays it well and in interesting ways now I'm not the only one who likes this building is kind of interesting under must like it himself because he did it twice which is pretty unusual for an architect to write their client one of competition had a very difficult construction site and one of the Japanese magazines had a competition name an architect that you want to work with a really weird site.

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Do you have a problem with and will try and get that architect to build your building and the owner was a guy who worked for a construction company and the site it's probably easier I think they photo shopped out all the wires I'll show you in a minute is right on the edge of the sea and the building itself has some things that make it fairly complicated it's 4 storey tower that lands on a very small footprint so it's pretty expensive when it was built in 2003 it cost over $300000.00 and so it came to about $240.00 bucks a square foot now you'll hear that Japanese construction is more expensive enough true but it's because of the craft and because of the earthquake issues but 60 percent higher than normative construction is still expensive and the guy actually because he worked for a construction company was getting a deal this would have been an even more expensive building if he had done it he didn't have those connections and he was interviewed in The New York Times about the building and one of the great quotes was he said My wife often complains about the ups and downs involved especially when she has to bring groceries up to the kitchen after shopping because the kitchen is on the 4th floor and it's only stairs no elevator OK I'm kind of now that I've been thinking about this building in terms of talking to you guys I think I'm going to go back and see if they're still living in it because they're a little older than me and I'm wondering what's happening to their needs you know the body of the water that this building faces the inland sea is salty and I'm going to put a little tiny hatch up on the roof and I'm going to show you that building again that allows the owner to get out on the building and try and spray water on the outside to spray the salt off the building because nobody does power washing in Japan and you know I don't think it works let's just say that so let's agree that this particular building isn't very practical but that doesn't mean we can't love it it's poetic that's one of the attractions.

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Japanese architecture within our community and your Mark mentioned and instantly I should say one of the things I love about dealing with both Mark and Sobber is the way that they integrate really rich discourse both buildings when I deal with them they're like me they want to get down there and look at the nuts and bolts and things like that and that's really rare for design faculty I think it's much more common for the faculty like myself the teach technical topics to want to engage with both the design and the technology design faculty often act like technology is something that you can kind of add on later after you've done the diagrams that may be different here but that's my general impression with a lot of schools this is a test question that another colleague of ours at I don't know did several years a couple years or year after the building was completed 2005 where he was asking about how you would handle some of the water issues on this building and remember you supposed to be able to climb up there and wash the front of this building right to get the salt off so I mean the water issues in general let's just start by assuming that they're not a really conducive part of this whole discussion.

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For me as somebody who cares about whole buildings as somebody who was licensed for about 25 years until I got tired of paying the extra money I think that architecture should be something that has both the pragmatic and a poetic side I think that we can have to have one or the other and so I think it is Bread and Roses OK And on the side of the roses right that's the whole sort of Vitruvian what you call the new status the beautiful things about the building so with us on no building you know little tower at the end of the Inland Sea That really sounds like kind of a poet.

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A piece of poetry right there right I want to live in a little tower on the edge of the in limb see it has an over large window it has a big tall space the guys says living in it is like living on a ship and you can imagine that also if you look more closely at it you'll see that it's got a really solid base in that it opens up more and more as you get higher which is another kind of a poetic justice or and the building has this wonderful sense of both a symmetrical partner an asymmetrical part in balance and then the bigger game of the 2 buildings playing with another level of symmetry so the rose is part but I teach construction I think all the pragmatic stuff is important to the bread the meat of the stuff and you know if we talk about it again in Vitruvian terms we would talk about Fermi Tass and commode right easy to use not working out so well for on dough understanding cost and understands cost and construction he just wasn't too worried about it plausible approaches to maintenance and your ability this seems to be one of the things driving Sobber these days very exciting not a lot of people thinking about it but you know like our governor just one of the 1st things he did in the state of the Union Address this year was to say he's going to give our university money for deferred maintenance and every professor in this room is thinking man you know so you know really important to if you own a building and then keeping structures say making them perform well that kind of thing one of the things that's interesting about looking at Japanese architects versus looking at architects in a lot of places in the US is that they in which one they're going to compromise on so when we make compromises we compromise on the poetry of the building in favor of the pragmatics that's a very typical thing in the US is driven by strong economic interests who make sense in Japan especially in the circles where architects you know of.

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Operate very often the thing that gets compromised is the pragmatic side in favor of the poetic side so it's a sort of a reverse and why do they do that and the answer is prizes OK if you do this you really stand out you get picked up in the media people go to your lectures you know you go to a TOE and a lecture and other people line up they wait for hours to get in because they're very excited because they understand the poetry of buildings a lot of the kind of lay people that get excited about architecture get the simplicity of these buildings and they recognize why they're different and exciting and it's not just John Doe So in the case of the Pritzker Prize you can see that there are a number of other people working in this vein who again have won this prize in fact if you look at I'm going to move this over so I can keep doing this you look at who's won Pritzker prizes 7 people from Japan one of whom is operating out of Paris have won the Pritzker Prize only 5 people born in the U.S. have also received Pritzker prizes in Japan as a 3rd of our population so they're much more successful on this particular score and even if you're looking at immigrants there's only 9 U.S. based firms that have one Pritzker prizes including people like the Canadian Frank Gehry and you know there are 6 people that are living and working in Japan that have one Prince surprises so you know the poetry has a real benefit for architects that's worth paying attention to on the other hand the problem is that the reason we get hired the reason our clients ask us to do things is not for the roses necessarily but for the bread right there just Syrian about the value we bring to them is based on that and so one of the problems is that if you look at Japanese architects you can see 1st off they're really poorly.

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Paid OK So this is from a few years ago I think it's 2013 and the average salary is about 48000 a year and this is for people who are like 49 years old and have about 16 years of experience and if I told you that you're going into a field where you're getting paid like that you probably would not be very excited the good news is in Georgia it's almost double that this is exactly at the same time so you can see this little guy over here I have to actually read it here 80093000 right roughly double the salary for an architect to work in Georgia versus an architect working in Japan that's a big difference right and it says a lot about social value some of you A visited Japan or you've looked in the magazines you thought about going there is an intern and one of the things you might also notice is that the offices look like this they look like your studios actually are very nice Do they look like that all the time.

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No OK it's just because it's the beginning of the semester they're really nice they're clean you have lots of space this is because you'll set them on. His office OK And I actually I kind of panicked silly paper there's no insulation in this building and so everybody's got those little heaters under their desks and they've all this paper and the corner from where it said you must sit to the front hoarder is defined by these bookcases which if you're running through I think you're going to knock down all the bookcases and I'm always afraid in the wintertime they're going to burn themselves down and I'm told that if I try and call the office I never think about what time it is if I'm calling so to most office because there's always somebody there 3 in the morning there is somebody there and they don't have the economic infrastructure for the secretary and the other kinds of people that you're used to here it's a very very.

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Limited funding context for the studio and so that's kind of an important thing to think about now if I go back to the judo I know building this is a guy at what's called Fukushima Daiichi couple of nuclear power plants and melted down in 2011 now most you guys are in your twenty's so you probably don't even remember this but in March of 2011 there was a couple of big earthquakes that happen pretty much concurrently and so they registered about $7.00 on the magnitude scale which just let's say it's a really big earthquake it's not the biggest earthquake we've ever heard of but it's a really big earthquake there was a big wave called tsunami that washed the entire eastern shore of the northern half of Japan and about 20000 people just disappeared.

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They did they were just washed out to sea Well one of the things was that in the 1970 S. when people were building nuclear power plants they needed some weighted Coolum and one thing that looked like a good idea at the time was to put in nuclear power plants down right against the ocean because then what you could do is you could take this cold water from the ocean you can cycle it through the nuclear power plant you could cool it doesn't sound like a great idea the problem is when you have a giant wave that washes up on to a nuclear power plant it shuts down all the backup systems and that's why they had to meltdowns they were actually really lucky it could have been a lot worse so what is Ted Antos building have to do with the nuclear power plant Well here's a section of code on those building so here's the living space up above with the kitchen that the wife carries her groceries up to on the 4th floor this pink line is the only insulation in the building OK so it's solid concrete walls you guys know it doesn't have to be but it is there is actually double glazing on that big tall window but the double glazing is in a steel frame that probably doesn't have a thermal break there's a guy here from Y. K.K. who knows more about whether it does or doesn't but let's just say 99 times out of 100 in a building from this period no thermal break I'll show you some other examples the windows are fixed they're not operable you can't open them and so what are you going to do to be comfortable Well the insulations actually there to keep the hot water pipes hot.

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So you can see it's between an interior space and an interior space but what they're trying to do is search trying to make sure that the floors where they're walking around either in slippers and their stocking feet aren't cold and they thought that the best way to do this was to put the insulation right there where those hot water pipes are now for anybody in this room who's my age or older these kinds of buildings are not surprising this one's in Tokyo it's more recent infrared technology allows us to take pictures of it but if you look at buildings from the sixty's or seventy's in the United States you'll notice that a lot of the action at the envelope was about dealing with this problem you have a lot of humidity inside the building you don't have any kind of thermal barrier between the inside of the outside the surface gets cold you get condensation OK And this is how I was this was Dow Chemicals offices so they said we didn't clean it up this morning because we thought you'd like the picture because they knew me and this is how much water had collected overnight in their window sills from the condensation so from talking to anybody I know in Japan they're very familiar with this problem which creates a lot of other problems to Donna's building sometimes have sick building syndrome because that condensation is captured inside the building and it can promote fungus and mold right so that's a big problem too so this kind of thing is like I say not uncommon we used to have it Chewy dealt with it in the seventy's Japan can eventually do the same now Mark unsober when I was telling him about this last night they said.

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But maybe Kobe is climate is so benign that they don't need insulation and I actually don't think there's many places in the planet where that's true but you'll be happy to know it's not true here here's a Lamma. Here's Kobe OK Pretty much the same latitude and in fact if you look up the climate data here's Kobe's climate Here's George as to climate you get a little colder as we might be noticing right now.

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And your summer is longer but interesting the maximum highs and lows are very similar right and so this climate is the environment in which this large concrete uninsulated building exists. Now is total and I. Is to go on Doe a bad architect you know he's operating in a different environment he's operating in an environment where insulation is not the norm and so here you can see this is in 2014 so this is after the meltdowns and everything and this is all building so if we go out into Georgia some of the buildings you're going to see were built in the $1950.00 S. or the 1940 S. or something like that and if nobody's done any energy retrofit some They're probably not insulated either but these buildings don't meet Japan's building standards and the standards are pretty benign OK so the 900 $99.00 standard assumes you're going to have about 4 inches of insulation in the walls and about 7 inches of insulation in the roof and only 5 percent of the buildings in 2014.

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I complied with the 999 standards right and 40 percent of them had no insulation so as to know no better architect no is said to my bad architect I'm going to show you a said Jim a building with minimum insulation They're good architects they're working in an environment where people didn't think much about this the solution was to add heat so if you talk to your parents or maybe a few guys your grandparents if they go back far enough like this old dude is he sent his hot plate in for repair once and 68 notice what he's doing he's got this raggedy look and coffee pot that sitting there and he's just going to drink coffee because it's going to sit there and keep absorbing heat all day long now most of you i hope of never drank coffee like this but if you do you'll just cover it's not great coffee we don't do this anymore right we've figured out that you can insulate the coffee cup and you can actually get better coffee right if you go to Georgia Tech even found you guys all right so.

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Why doesn't Japan instantly those standards I showed you those are mandatory. So why doesn't Japan have mandatory requirements the buildings and one of the answers has to do with going back to the oil shock when we all started thinking about this so in 1973 when we had the 1st oil shock one of the things was the buildings used a very small slice of total energy consumption.

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Manufacturing including making steel and concrete which are very very energy intensive industries used a lot of energy and transportation used to a fairly small slice but once you started to do this change the dynamics for home and your fracturing used to energy it was also easy to change things like the design of cars and trains so these 2 were able to be easily addressed and Japan put all its energy into pulling back how much all this energy that's Joe used all its effort into pulling back how much energy was going to be consumed in industrial production rather than in buildings for the U.S. at that time this piece was much bigger we had to deal with it and so we actually got in front of dealing with energy consumption in buildings as well so what happened this is you can see everything stayed pretty full on out along this period after 973 because people were very intensively trying to save their own country's economy by reducing energy demand all the energy came from outside Japan's energy itself sustainability ratings are about 4 percent OK That means 96 percent of the energy they were using was coming from outside Japan and so they had to figure out a way to deal with the fact that OPEC was making their energy expensive until OPEC collapsed and then you can see what starts to happen it's like the both of our happy days are here over here in and everybody starts using more energy now these days don't go up much why not because in the manufacturing processes they put in new plants and new equipment and now they're invested in the new plants and new equipment and so it's not going to climb as fast even though their production is going up the man.

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New fracturing systems are already in place and you can see transport goes up some but if you actually look at it in terms of miles traveled or something like that you'll find it doesn't go up very much but what goes up is buildings OK So manufacturing the energy actually comes down from $73.00 transportation it goes up some but the miles traveled goes up a lot buildings residential buildings 2 times as much energy and commercial buildings almost 3 times as much energy so now you're starting to see that the kind of cavalier way that people do with energy in terms of the regulations back in the seventy's have implications so this is causing Germans house this is where she lives when she's in Tokyo and one of the reasons I put it up is I wanted to point out that there's another thing going on as well which is that you're going techs are thinking of it not as a building which has to survive cold but it is a building which in a kind of old school way can keep you comfortable when it's hot so this picture there's this bench and it's right there and this is giant window that brings area in and there's a roof piece here where almost the whole roof opens up and allows the air to go out and so this is really kind of a shady outdoor space where she can entertain friends and she can sleep and all that kind of thing so that's not bad.

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Well as long as it's summer time. Now I'll tell you a funny story about this house Soja moved in in February and I happened to be living in Japan at that time and so I went over and I said Dorry Hey congratulations new house right I brought flowers all that kind of stuff you would do and we sat down I said How do you like the house and she said.

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It's very cold it was a pretty cold winter that year and all of this right concrete floor no insulation you can see the roof no insulation walls no insulation and all the heat was up there and said I was down here right and she was like I am really unhappy I'm really cold I'm going to go on an international trip and I'll figure out what to do and when summer came around they decided that the best solution was now was here we'd say insulate right but that's not what she decided to do they tore up this concrete floor and they put in a heated floor.

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OK so that she would be more comfortable and there'd be more heat radiating from the floors and saps where she was for anybody who's studied energy issues to seems very counterintuitive but what you guys have to understand is the whole discussion we've had about hot air being up in the ceiling and all that kind of stuff that comes from more than 40 years of awareness of the way we need to conserve energy in buildings and it's become very commonplace to understand it's talked about in the newspapers it's on the television these kinds of discussions right now aren't happening in Japan because there hasn't been a sense of urgency about doing this OK so what happens is that energy becomes a kind of a luxury especially electricity is seen as a luxury in Japan this is a new art exhibition it's 100000 square feet of immersive technology the just opened up last summer in diabolo which is a recreational area of Tokyo by an artist group called Border load or Team Lab and the outfit the thing is called borderless it has $500.00 servers it has $470.00 high powered projectors it has a bunch of human load in it because everybody wants to be there and all this heat being dealt with by air cooling systems not by any kind of insulation it's very cool if you go you have to go see it because it's like you know being on the safest L.S.D. trip you could ever be on right I mean this just is amazing thing you walk out in your brain is deformed for about an hour but this is not what I would have anticipated as the next major art movement in Japan only a few years after it had nuclear meltdown it's right it's a very strange direction for industry to go now you've seen examples of this even if you've never been to a die.

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Every time you look at an expensive neighborhood in Japan you see the way the light is used as a kind of projection of luxury and so this is in Ginzo which is a very expensive area to go shopping in and you can see there's a lot of ornamental illumination and then there's also a large areas of glass where there's a connection between inside and outside a lot of the single pane glazing and there's very limited use of day lighting beyond the kind of periphery if you go into these buildings you'll see pretty quickly the electrical light takes over and the electrical light may do exotic things that may change colors it may have displays there's all kinds of ways that there's an expression of the kind of excitement that electric light suggests.

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So by now I hope you're starting to ask yourself like what does this really mean for us as architects and one of the things I keep saying to people is if electricity is the problem and it isn't Japan then we're the solution we as architects are the solution because somewhere between 60 and 70 percent of electricity in any developed country is used in commercial and residential buildings OK and some of that is your little computer and your phone and that kind of thing but a lot of that is the lights and the heat in the refrigerator and all that stuff and so if we figure out how to conserve electricity then that's going to play out really powerful ways in our countries so I know it's separate occurred to ask yourself how did we get in this mess in the 1st place but the answer is everybody thought atomic power was the kind of magic bullet for everybody right so Jean Seberg is a guy that was trained at Berkeley in the thirty's he was a professor an assistant chancellor and stop at Berkeley very influential guy and he said that atomic power will make a like tricity too cheap to meter I'm sure you've heard that is your electricity in your house too cheap to meter now yeah me either OK So but there are some really interesting connections between electricity and nuclear power in Japan and architecture why isn't there we go OK So I don't know if you know do you a New South Wales to work new so I did this separate from said Thomas on Sama is their joint practice in each have their own individual practices as well and this is an art museum called Arts Ok it's up in northern Japan and you know if you read about this normally This one's from 2008 you're going to see this.

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Something like this so this is from a art magazine I can't read it from here to tell you which one and this is what the author said based on what new shoes I would told him in a conservative cities such as to enter this it's a bunch of old farmers where the lifestyle seems not to change for 50 years the opening of a contemporary arts center was not a project welcomed by all now the this cosmopolitan journalist says why would you not want this fabulous knishes out of a building in your midst you must be rude OK they're not roups they're just fiscally concerned OK so here's a total operating costs for the building one point $1000000.00 It's a town of $65000.00 so I do the math it's going to cost just $17.60 a person to operate the building every year OK they get a certain amount of event so you need to see it up there they get a certain amount of it from the national government and from what's their version of the state what's called the prefecture but they pay a lot of it themselves OK so they didn't want to pay for operating the sixpence of building and why was it expensive Well it's a cold place OK The average temperature in January is a bone what is or what it's going to be here in the next few days I had snow those a lot and this is the building plan OK and I don't know if you noticed but every single exhibition space is separate and isolated room and also all of these are single paying glazing.

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And again no formal breaks in the framing All right so one possible reason possible I don't have the budget information for the high operating costs is probably keeping it comfortable for the little old ladies and little guys. So I said I was going to connect this to nuclear power one of the things that's really interesting is the more electricity you use in Japan the more money there is for nuclear power because there's a hidden subsidy in everybody's bill and that subsidy yields it's about 2 bucks a household a month OK not a lot of money but you don't see it on your bill you can go through your bill and I put a bunch of stuff up there and you won't see anything that says nuclear subsidy interestingly enough more recently there was a desire to start to also subsidize renewables and you can see the $0.06 involved for the renewables on your bill OK so they come lack this money for the nuclear industry and what do they use it for.

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They use it for promotion for getting local communities to be excited about having nuclear power in their community so if you've been to Japan or you've looked at the magazines and you thought wow this is a town of 65006 bunch old people what are they doing hiring knishes Our And why doesn't my town of 60000 hiring issues Iowa the answer is your town isn't getting subsidized to take nations our and that town did and so altogether there was about this is about let's see 20.

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$20000000000.00 again $20000000000.00 in subsidies that were used for promotion for different kinds of nuclear development and all of that about $6000000000.00 for promotion and it went for schools and culture centers and recreational facilities and roads all kinds of stuff like that and. After the nuclear power plants melted down one of the things I did was I started digging around the bunch of information just kind of randomly like you might to try to figure out is there nuclear money in any of the buildings that I've been looking at and I was able to find some like Toyota So this is actually funds for to lot of city it comes from that old nuclear fuel pool plutonium reprocessing plant and also some large hydro plants OK and that year they got $20000000.00 yen which sounds like a lot but we can go through each year we can start to look at it and we can add it up and it only adds up to about $1300000.00 over 5 years.

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Remember it costs almost $1200000.00 to operate this building for a year and you can only get these subsidies for 5 years so they're actually not coming out ahead by buying into this deal right and you can see examples of this all over Japan All right so this guy's pointing at Fukushima Daiichi and one of the things that's probably occurred to you by now is I have a Texas a group aren't incredibly idealistic people right we all want to have positive change in the world we live in so when these nuclear power plants came down what did my community do what did architects do and they did what they could they put a lot of energy and a lot of their own money into doing things but you'll notice a thread which I'll talk about in a minute so one guy organized a kind of Tour de France fun movie grew up Americas and stuff where they had these people doing bicycle race is through the communities kind of bring excitement to the community bring some money that sort of thing can go Como you probably know about proposed a new museum built of rubble that didn't go over so well as you can imagine.

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Ito Toyo got some young architects together to design a community center in the because and then they also raised all the money for themselves which sounds really great except I have to tell you 60 percent of the population of this town is over 65 and you know I mentioned earlier about needs I actually met the mayor this town and he said this building got the Golden Lion at the Venice be an ol A and that makes no sense to me because most of my local community can't get beyond this room right why are you people giving awards to this building.

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I went around and I talked to some other people at some of these buildings all of these are funded through home for all they're funded by I donated $10000.00 some of your professors probably donated money people really tried to kind of support the citizens of Japan so this is another community center that's built there's a lot of little temporary buildings for little old ladies because they lost their houses and this is where they can hang out so I went in and I was hanging out with them and I noticed this so there was this I've got a lot more images of this but I'm only going to show you a couple there was a concrete floor as you saw there was a membrane roof so cold part of town of the country and so we're sitting under there and I realize they had electric heater underneath the table this is not uncommon it's called a cold out suit but I was also pretty comfortable and then I saw there's some insulation and some metal that's taped to the floor and they said we did that.

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They did it themselves because surfie were cold in their legs were cold they weren't using the building so they went ahead and they did it and you can see the way that plays out so the area under the table is kind of warm the minute you get away from the that area that they laid the insulation in the mantle on now it's back to being really cold OK So kind of limited use beyond that another group which I'm very fond of Archy ate raised about half a $1000000.00 internationally $300.00 architecture students and faculty from around the world went and worked and got involved in projects now there are $200.00 students in Japan they did a lot of workshops this is one of the architectural teams these these chips are protesters in Tokyo they're friends of mine and these are their clients and these are fisherman OK they're really quite well they're retired fishermen they're now in their eighty's little lady he's actually married to another woman who's disabled I think he's actually a friend or something and he wasn't in one of the buildings and they made these 3 buildings.

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That replaced the homes that these people had lost and you'll notice that the buildings trying to be really sympathetic to the vernacular expectations of the community that was a big discussion among among our key aid how do we actually deal with the fact that the people that we're building for don't want big fancy architecture so they said OK we're going to do this we're going to go ahead we're going to make them with tile roofs and that sort of thing well.

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They started to realize they wanted to save energy in these buildings and so those 2 architects came over to California and they met with a bunch of my colleagues because there's no infrastructure for finding engineers who can help you figure out how to save energy through passive systems in your buildings if there is no demand for it then the construction the contractors and the engineers and that kind of thing are going to learn how to do it so you have to go elsewhere so these architects came over to California and some friends of mine we'll show you in a little bit went ahead and advised them about how to design this building they talked about vapor barrier and about creating locations where you were going to have cold air seeping in and change the performance and they showed them how to use infrared cameras during construction to create a safer and more comfortable environment Well there was a problem so this is that little old ladies house I went to visit her and one of the things you might notice is here's a kerosene heater a lot of the people in the country use kerosene and I'm pretty sure none of you have ever been in the space for kerosene was the primary heat while Sobber when you were a kid but fundamentally this is not a very healthy way to do things the exhaust from kerosene burning is bad for your health now this little lady said I'm in my eighty's I don't really care I'm going to go ahead and burn my kerosene heater and so all the people in the city got really upset what are we going to do because we don't want to be responsible for shortening her life and so they decided what they were going to do was they were going to basically vandalize the high performance windows and doors.

[00:42:12]
So that what would happen is you'd get a lot of cold air that would be drawn into these windows and doors and create natural air movement and for those of us who are older you can kind of remember when there was talk about what do we do have the building doesn't breathe right this was a conversation we had 40 years ago so the damage the weather stripping and stuff another little ladies really happy because she operates or kerosene heater plushy figure she pulled a fast one on the flashy architects from Tokyo.

[00:42:43]
The other thing that I noticed though was that the other clients they had these kind of air conditioner or heat pump type units like you have some around here that they could turn it on as American dition or heater they had a remote for it and they said to me we've ended up using kerosene too and I was like why are you doing that and they said well we can never figure out which promoter is the right one right and I pointed to this one and I turned on the heat 2 rooms over and that's not what I want and then I have to read it and I don't know where my glasses are and the system actually was too hard for them to use and so even though some of these buildings could have made really persuasive arguments for high performance architecture in these little communities the fact that they were incompatible with people's understanding is about how to use buildings became a problem all right so our kid was working all over Toko they were trying their best in truth they only built on about 30 sites they did some other stuff but fundamentally.

[00:43:55]
If most of them look back they say we put a lot of effort into it we're not sure how much we accomplished Meanwhile the Japanese people were much more effective and have been much more effective they were going crazy because they suddenly realized if a nuclear power plant melted down in their community the government wasn't planning on doing a lot to help them and so the Japanese people were literally out demonstrating which is very unusual in Japan and as a result Japan has closed down a certain number of its nuclear power plants each one of these represents a reactor the M I think wow that's a lot of nuclear reactors for a little tiny island 1st off remember it's a little tiny island it's not connected to the grid it doesn't have any electricity supply coming from someplace else in Georgia you can get electricity from Alabama are in New York or New Jersey or wherever Tennessee and you're fine but these guys all the energy has to be produced in Japan they had 54 nuclear power plants on the day of Fukushima Daiichi meltdown.

[00:45:08]
They had a 10th of all the nuclear power plants in the world in Japan pretty dramatic so this is where the meltdowns occurred they said Knapp and the nearby went to yap or done right OK A couple other ones that kind of figured out hey maybe this is not a good idea they're pretty old and so they shut down about 19 plants they have 9 plants operating now they opened a couple more in November 6 had been approved but they're not operating because a public voice OK people are too hostile to nuclear power 12 more are seeking approval and ninety's little grey ones it's the industry trying to figure out how far can we get right if they can't get these approved they're going to give up on these if they get these approved they're going to try and get those other 9 into the Q So there's still a big question about what Japan's energy performance practices are going to look like and by the way here's he serves down here on western Japan kind of just above Kyoto The other thing that they started to discover is that under these nuclear power plants are fault lines and you guys don't live in a seismic area but I do the reason we have North quake this morning was that we have a fault line that runs actually about 100 feet from the building I teach in OK and when you have a fault line what happens is the Earth can either move this way or move this way and a lot of these nuclear power plants turn out to be on fault lines that's nobody's fault not choose another pun.

[00:46:51]
The reason for that is that seismic engineering is only about 120 years old. So when they built these things in the seventy's which is 50 years ago seismic engineering was a lot more rudimentary than it is now and they only decided that there were plates and fault lines in the 19 $160.00 S. So they didn't even know to look for this stuff when they 1st started talking about plate technology it was incredibly controversial so they started building the nuclear power plants not knowing how this is going to play out OK so one of the things I hope you've been curious about is did demand for energy drop in Japan after these meltdowns and the answer is kind of right kind of.

[00:47:42]
An nuclear power dropped a lot but your peers got a great idea which is not unusual not to reduce demand but to increase supply elsewhere and where does that increase supply coal and gas Japan is the only developed country in the world right now that is building coal plants Yeah I figured you guys would love that one so here it is coal right now well 2 years ago was supplying a 3rd of Japan's electricity it's up OK And furthermore They've been some articles on it why Japan finds coal hard to quit let's look at these numbers coal share of nuclear of Japan Japanese electrical power is expected to increase to 46 percent by 2030 if they can restart more nuclear plants and if they can't 56 percent.

[00:48:44]
Now I don't need to tell you about climate change you guys all know because this is the challenge for your generation OK In Japan it should be as well most of Japan's major cities are along its shores so if they see sea level rise and they see nastier storms it hit somewhere everybody lives OK and increasing coal production is probably not the right solution I'm not going to go into it in great depth but one of the reasons that coal and nuclear power are so entrenched is that they are highly valued by the business and political communities OK And we as architects are not our voice is not at the table in terms of a solution for what to do about nuclear power in Japan and that's a pretty serious thing so you may be wondering by now I got a lot of friends in Japan and there was this nuclear meltdown and what was I doing so I would tell you a little bit about a few things I've been doing I was actually on a I was scheduled for a panel a week after the nuclear meltdowns and they went we have to reorganize this and they got rid of everybody else on the panel and just filled it with nuclear engineers and just take my word for it you don't want to be in a room with a bunch of nuclear engineers after a meltdown because they're telling jokes OK and the people on this side there were people who were from Japan who freaking out had actually fled to Berkeley by airplane and wanted to know what was going on because they thought we would give them better answers so I got hit right in the face with the nuclear power thing one of my old professors was there and one of the things he said was Hey Dana.

[00:50:34]
What about the kind of brake line between electrical supply in southern Japan and northern Japan and I'm like What are you talking about and he explained to me that there are very few transmission signs connections between the 2 parts of Japan and so all the nuclear power plants that were in the southern part of Japan would not be able to make up for the lost supply in northern Japan which meant we are already knew in March that it was going to be a really hot summer how would you like to be in Georgia with no air conditioning.

[00:51:13]
That's what all our friends in Tokyo were going to experience and we knew that the clients were going to turn to the architects and say what I do about my building right and we also knew that the architects didn't know anything because they were putting insulation in their floors Right OK So we did a workshop we spent a very intense couple of months developing the whole work booking clearing a glossary and all that and then we went over there and we taught people like cuz you all said tomorrow about the basic issues for conserving energy in buildings and this is such a mob these 2 Susan noble already is a friend of mine who I teach at the Berkeley her husband and she heard George always knows they own an energy consultancy they want to people like Frank Gehry and stuff so they're really really high level energy conservation organization I'm not saying Frank Gehry saves a lot of energy but if he wants to put a Monet in a glass building in aboud Dobby they're the ones to tell him how to pull that off without cooking them and the Monet right so they're really smart people now Susan and I both have connections to Tulane I was a student there she 1st taught there and one of the things we learned from Hurricane Katrina was when we got in touch with people it to Lyon and said we want to help do you know what they said they said we're too busy just trying to dig out can you wait.

[00:52:45]
And when we waited it got too late and so we knew that we couldn't wait that if we were going to make a difference we had to go now so we planned this workshop we invited a bunch of people we went over and one of the reasons that I felt like this was going to be a great thing to do was through a big earthquake in Japan remember Kobe Kobe had a big or he moved he supposed to be down here Kobe had a bigger quake in 1995 OK Really interesting or quite for those of you are interested in earthquakes thought up epicenter was below the city so the buildings moved up and then came back down again OK this was city hall in Kobe that used to be a story.

[00:53:36]
This is actually the building codes fault because there was a law that said that you had ever really rigid base to transfer the stresses into the ground from above when the building was starting to move but it got narrower at this level and so as a result when the building came down and then it became back there when it went up and then it came back down it pancaked in the same place a building after building after building this was 5 in the morning nobody died in this building Aren't you glad to hear them lot of people died in Kobe but not in this building all right.

[00:54:12]
So what happened what happened was really exciting this was my exciting moment this was you know Mark mentioned my 1st book The 990 S. where this amazing flourishing of structural design solutions in California because we had the Northridge earthquake and in Japan and a whole bunch of new ways of doing things like buckling resistant braces and other sort of solutions appeared at this time and it's now become integrated so I knew what was going to happen after Toho coup My plan was that it was going to be really straightforward there was a crisis and everybody was going to go hey what went wrong and they were going to do some critical study and then they were going to figure out how to change course and I was going to go to Japan and I was going to see exciting new solutions because I got to tell you something and Susan and George saw this in that 1st workshop to Japan's highly competitive architectural community can do amazing things when they put their mind to it they had this Apple store that they were going to people redesign and there was in Taipei and I figure world's Finland and stuff like that and they had different teams in the goal was to get to 0 energy and the 1st day Susan and George got to me ha ha ha this is not going to happen and we figured out how to run the calculations with grad students who didn't sleep for 4 days so the grad students would keep these computers running overnight and every day we'd come in and say OK you're this close now we're going to talk about things like lighting right and we move them forward and to these teams actually got to 0 energy.

[00:55:51]
0 was the target Susan and George were blown away they were to hard anybody who was in that room at the end of this workshop because what they did was amazing so I thought you know what we were going to see by now was stuff to excite the rest of the world and why did I think we could be a part of it so this is the part where I tell you a little bit about California because California is as it often is a provocative alternative to the way other people live so here's the electricity demand in California OK And this is what happened so oil shock economic downturn people go I got this I know what we can do they put in building standards and new standards for refrigerators and stuff like that and California's per capita electricity demand has been flat since the $1970.00 S. flat flat flat Now this is the United States which as many of my friends from the Lawrence Berkeley labs points out means that there's another poise up here OK because that's an average OK this is Japan and here's that burble in the seventy's and then you can see it taking off again and this is the ninety's early ninety's 25 years ago Japan's per capita electricity cost is higher than California.

[00:57:12]
That's fairly amazing most of you probably believed in most Japanese believe that Japan is an energy come conserving environment Japan's manufacturing and transportation industries definitely are we who are responsible for all that electricity we ain't right and you've kind of seen that so houses play out just kind of like you know so here's Georgia by the way.

[00:57:38]
You are above Japan OK by about double of this period Here's California down here right and if you want to know who the high liner is it's Wyoming right why isn't Wyoming cousins in the energy producing state right places like Texas and Wyoming consumer energy because their politicians are not trying to put the brakes on it OK and that's a very straightforward answer but why are we so different not just because we're of California OK I mean we like change but it's not just because of that so 1964 we remember 959 when a meltdown OK we have a nuclear meltdown where no this is a really good one but database you know if you fly into San Francisco and you're coming north coming down the coast from the north side towards asshole photo and you look out you'll soon as Peninsula with a big hole.

[00:58:34]
And they were going to build a nuclear power plant there and they discovered in the sixty's that there were phone lines and a bunch of people got in boats and they surrounded little tiny boats and kayaks and all this stuff we are California and they got around this peninsula and they raise tack and they prevented Bodega Bay from getting a nuclear power plant OK And so the average companies gave up on that one this one I think was just shut down because it was a kind of a test reactor humble day here's another one all the sudden there was an earthquake in people went It has fall lines to maybe we don't have a nuclear power plant on faultlines so they shut it down this one super interesting this isn't Sacramento which is our capital and what happened there is that people like you started a referendum to close down the nuclear power plants and you can imagine they were told this was going to cost the community a lot of money you're going to have to shut down the power plant you're going to have a alternate forms of energy you sure you want to do this and they said yeah we won't do it so they shut it down economy went up childhood leukemia went down OK So great example there are books in Japanese about this one we had 2 nuclear power plants on the day that Fukushima Daiichi happened OK One was immediately retired the state of California said we don't want what's going on there the 2nd one they decided to retire at the end of last year and it's going to take 6 years to do it so we've actually gone ahead and shot a bunch of our nuclear power plants and what does that look like it looks like work for you guys it does.

[01:00:21]
So spurs economic innovation efficiency related jobs up 15 percent also a lot of money for education less power plants we didn't have to build new ones a 5th of the state's like tricity needs are met by conservation so our population is going up but we're not building a lot of these new plants slash C O 2 that helps you guys out so you can actually raise babies and about better environment research is a really interesting area and I'm going to show you one example on research but research is a part of what we as professionals should also be doing and so we saved money for a state for individuals we created jobs for people we advance the profession we have this kind of virtuous circle right you can't do this only with the market but the performance standards can start to drive the market and the performance standards also drive innovation so that you start to get these 3 Poles working together to create more exciting architecture I know I gotta finish this up soon let me show you this you've seen how we're spending it 0 net energy buildings we have 200 California you've recently built 3 and you could be designing those buildings you know how right but you also need people to drive it so they believe in California is that well considered regulation drives innovation benefit society and our profession economically and people say Are you sure and the answer is the numbers don't lie OK The G.D.P. in California is higher than the rest of the country OK I'm going to jump forward a little bit and I'm not going to show you that workshop but I want to talk about.

[01:02:17]
Again. Because I think this is really important so some of you have probably seen Kazuo said Thomas Howes from around the same time this is the plum Grove house and it comes from that stuff that happened in Kobe there's incredible excitement from the mid ninety's on about new structural solutions and so said you had no idea I'm going to build a house where the walls are the structure and they're going to be made of steel and they're only about half an inch thick and so here we go don't do this in your studio as your professors won't believe you but that's what the wall looks like it's steel right half an inch steel plate in small cells the drawings show some rigid insulation I've been on the outside I never saw it one of the people in the office told me they drew it because the would not publish a drawing without insulation.

[01:03:22]
Others true or not but I cannot believe it and then jumped on board because that's required by the building codes OK so they glued to dip board to the wall because it was required by the building codes. And this is what the section looks like so the roof had roughly are 3 insulation the walls had.

[01:03:46]
If it's really there roughly are for the floors have R 6 it's upside down again for the same reasons I told you about with Andro and their marks I'm happy I didn't have this written on here there's an R one paint that was developed for Nassau OK that cost a lot of money so they painted on the outside of this building OK now I'm going to say one thing that makes me crazy is they got to load it up that roof with insulation super easily.

[01:04:18]
And really enhance the thermal performance and it wouldn't change the ascetics of this building one bit so there was one easy move but you have to understand building performance to do it and at this point in time so John didn't understand it some of you might have been to this building done around the same time the 21st century museum in common Zollo and I've been there 2 big planes of glass and in fact when I went there when the building was under construction I took this picture this is the detail of those big glass walls so it's steel.

[01:04:59]
No thermal breaks 2 panes of glass laminated and that again use heat to maintain comfort so here we are on the site with that detail right. OK so we understand 20032004 she's not thinking about it now I really love students because you guys ask great questions and you ask them of us and you share them with us and you make us think differently so a guy who was a Ph D. student in Milan did a really cool thing he started comparing said to most buildings in different countries over time and this is what he discovered he discovered that So this is the building I just showed you there is all the insulation it's getting familiar right it's in the floor chimney on the floor it's in the floor don't do this right somebody is going to make it a test question this year anyway now a little bit up there OK then they get to Switzerland Switzerland isn't she codes so they say all we've got to put insulation in and they've actually got triple glazing there are some thermal Bridges has a still trying to work it out but they're working with local architects who are helping them figure it out and then next building in Switzerland now they're getting a little more insulation France France they finally get it man load up the roof right Lobsang to lation the roof really helps but here's the thing knowledge alone is not power remember what I said about the fact that you need that infrastructure of other people working with you Markham Sobber and I went to this building last summer when it was just being finished up up it actually opened in October so no Oka this is the biggest building 7 was done in Japan a while and it's a really beautiful building but this is what the insulation looks like if there are more for sound.

[01:06:54]
Then it is for thermal reasons you can see that there is no insulation there but just notice how it's even been put in this isn't a dumb contractor either this is Talk of construction this is one of the world's fine well I used to think one of the world's finest construction companies but when it comes to insulation maybe not so much you know you can see that they were just kind of jamming it in and most your professors have told you that if you just jam it it doesn't work very well so you have a situation where you need those other people around so in short knowledge alone is not power for more slides and I'm done what about you right what about you here in Georgia and the 1st answer is you still need to be educated you need to know what you want to be able to do you need to know what the good tricks other people have are and how you can utilize something so you know here's how your classes write this is the building physics modeling class from last fall some of you took this architecture 6 to port to right OK there you are you doing that part that's great Another one is to find ways to express thoughtful leadership which seems to be something you guys are actually working on these are you guys Jeffrey Collins and soling KARRIEM I don't know who they are I don't know if they're here today but if they are you can tell them I call them out and you need to do that because you need to be at the table remember the politicians in the business people at the table but the architects who are leaders in Japan were not invited to the table and have not been able to fight their way in so they're not influencing just decisions and discourse that leads to leads to the last one I thought this is the way it works that's not how it works OK You and I all know the climate change is going to change our profession and if you wait other people are going to decide what that looks like.

[01:08:48]
So what you have to do is you have to start thinking now about what it is your contribution is going to be you have to SEPTA table now the reason the guys were so successful after the Kobe earthquake is structural engineers and steel manufacturers and concrete companies have been talking about better solutions they've done the research they knew what the answers were they just couldn't get people to put it in the codes that a bunch of people died and all the sudden everybody want to talk about what to do there's going to come a moment where people want to ask you what to do you have to be at the table and know what you want to say that's really important because if you wait you're going to be like Susan and I after Katrina Hi can we help all please wait dull tone dial tone no answer right OK I think it's great this Martin Luther King weekend.

[01:09:42]
There's been a lot of change you're young you don't know how much change there's been I said I went to school at Tulane I went to school and all and I can remember when I went to school when I was 18 at the time so it's 50 years ago now 40 years ago and I went to school and there were restaurants with little windows and people who were African-American could not order food inside the restaurants they had to go to the little windows.

[01:10:14]
Think about how much we've changed it's not that there's not racism but the opportunities have grown and if we can change those things and we can change sexism then we can change this and the people who change it are not going to be old farts like me it's going to be you guys thank you.

[01:10:36]
Thank you yeah. It was a slap on. The wall by all. Who read it. For. Longer than just getting here to the site. At 6063. Sleepers or yeah now the land and the and the site right there are all manufactured off site perfectly Dale and put together like that for a shows that dropped out of those 12 inch long gap and screwed U.T. right beauty Yes no doubt you know they've got a system that's so different than we have here.

[01:11:36]
In terms of. Doing the stuff on site on the fly now this thing is like a machine shop so what's the deal. What's the deal in terms of how do we change you know what's the deal in terms of there with the rest of our destruction here why don't some of the other things in place with the systems much differently we've been struggling here with our site struction that he's figured out a little hard to hotels so I do a lot of stuff on prefab people prefer is only about 15 to 18 percent so what he asked about he saw our building where there are prefabricated building components so we're coming to this little residential how.

[01:12:13]
Those beautiful pieces would probably be somewhat wasteful because they weren't glue laminated they were dimension lumber they were pretty big but I was impressed that they were bringing these to the site prefab accounts for somewhere around 15 to 18 percent of the construction industry in Japan if you went back and looked at that house you might not find a very exciting because people think of houses as commodities I've actually got a slide let me pull it up real quick just to give you a sense of this and see I'm already for a lot of questions here right up.

[01:12:49]
There we go so Japan buildings are commodities who last 25 to 30 years houses especially And so as a result people think of him like cars so they're less concerned about his specs and about fine tuning them for their own needs and they're much more interested in production and so that what that meant is that in Japan and this is actual numbers not per capita numbers during this period from 1902 to 2014 half the years they built more houses single family houses in Japan than they built in all of the United States and we have 3 times the population OK so now you've got a very developed industry and it doesn't have the challenges to prefabrication that we have because it doesn't have the aesthetic issues about customization and visual appearance and that kind of thing and so as a result what you can do is you can fine tune production in actual fact the prefab industry is having a lot of problems and if you want I'd be happy to send you a chapter that I have on that.

[01:13:55]
You. Know. Right now every. Now. Rog. Like and so I gave a lecture in Sendai I was probably 15 years ago and you know when you're a foreigner in a country a lot of times people ask you to go and talk about your own country so I was on a Fulbright they asked me to go and talk to a bunch of old guys up in Sendai who are studying English and I thought all guys are not interested most of the stuff I research so what I'm going to do is I'm going to talk to them about resale on residential property and return on investment and when I explain to them that at the end of our use of our house we sell it and somebody else buys it and you might even do things like put a new door on to raise the price all these old guys went.

[01:14:49]
Because each one of them was looking at the moment where they were going to have to tear down a house they'd lived in just to solve the land because the house is actually a liability right and there's no return they don't make any money off of it and I'm like here's why house I earned more money in the California real estate market than I earned from the state of California as a professor right and they were like I can't believe this so there are a lot of big differences in the housing market a lot to you guys might be really excited about the funny houses you see like the ones I showed you but there you go they're being built in a very different kind of an economic context and with very different kinds of pressures and expectations let's get a question from a student and the students have questions please have questions bunch of them fled but the grad student state right yeah.

[01:15:47]
I I made Jada and. I'm interested in knowing if in your research or maybe with your students you guys have looked into systems of generating electricity from. More renewable methods in other words they can the building consume the energy from waste that it produces. Yeah that's I'm wondering if there's a lot of interest to in this in Japan but what most people say and I'm going to show you a slide a minute the kind of backs that up so the 1st thing you want to do is you want to reduce the amount of energy you demand and then the next thing you want to do is you want to create renewables and so one of the 1st things you have like imagine you buy a $67.00 Chevy OK pre or oil shock big boat made of steel and you're right even if you try and put an engine in it that's electric the thing isn't going to function as well it's too big it's to have a you trying to get on the highway you're coming on the moon working right OK So you want to think about that there's a lot of subsidies in Japan to do that this is a 0 energy building that's done by Tyson Corp It's one of the innovative examples I was looking at now I have a kind of a secret weapon I had a back on my phone made by floor that allowed me to take infrared photos and so when the guy walked me around and showed me this building I said Can I take a picture and he thought I was going to look like that but I took that OK it's 123 Fahrenheit on the back of this.

[01:17:29]
Thin film. Solar. Windows OK these are supposed to be creating energy but they also create a lot of heat because they're very inefficient This isn't November OK so it was really hot he freaked out he was trying to get me to delete the photo I wasn't going to delete the photo I thought it was a great photo Here's the actual way the solar wall is designed OK you can see how they're bringing the electricity off and he also showed me this model which demonstrates again no.

[01:18:05]
Breaks right for years I bump into this guy to answer me why didn't they put thermal brakes in this window OK every single time I talk to him I talk to his boss and say did you not know I was walking around saying this to a bunch of people Mr yagi here is from why K.K. he and I are fighting the same battle on this he wants Japan to have better windows too because he can sell them to him and make a profit OK and I'm really good with that because if he makes a profit then you're not spending money on electricity it's like you're insulated Cup OK So right now in Japan you're seeing a lot more of that and so the thinking is more this OK but you're putting in a lot of high energy advanced technology and all those solar panels and thin film and all that stuff takes a lot of electricity to produce a high embodied energy and what we do our piece is not getting a lot of attention OK And what we do in California looks more like this it's not the more opposed to the cool stuff we like cool stuff we all like toys where the center of the tech industry right but we start with this OK make our buildings more efficient then put the bells and whistles on and we're all good right OK one more question you guys got a different stuff we're going to Mark's opening right which is supposed to happen in 2 minutes so one more question no no it's got to come from the store I want you guys don't to ask questions here as bad as my students how are you in the rainbow you got a question yeah yeah.

[01:19:56]
And the differences in California and the rest of the United States are particularly marked you know we're still building vocal. Maybe you'll never open it. You never know you really never know but. How do you see the rest of the United States being able to follow that California model of decommissioning plant so we have to really exciting what do they call it killer apps so one of our killer apps is we have as part of our building code a requirement that you have to upgrade our title 24 Energy Performance laws every 3 years.

[01:20:47]
So when our old shorts Nader was governor you know he's like Trump right he didn't want to do it so it goes up like that much right and then now we had he just retired Jerry Brown right the old Governor Moonbeam and what he did is he said who put I want to really take this up he was incredibly demanding on the architects but he's created a lot of innovation a lot of new opportunity so one thing is when you have the opportunity to influence performance statistics or performance regulations you want to look for ways to automatically ratchet it up that's a really big one the other way which is going to take more time but I think it's really important for your community is we're kind of a crazy democracy I don't know if you heard this year last year it wasn't on the ballot but they tried to put on the thing on the ballot that we would split the state up into 3.

[01:21:45]
And this guy got to have signatures so it has to be on the ballot but the Supreme Court said we're already had that conversation got rid of it because in truth we have something on the ballot or some guy want to break it up into 7 OK Now how do you end up with something so weird on the ballot and we get a lot of other stuff like that it's a very aggressive democracy in California anybody who gets a bunch of signatures can propose a law and it's on the ballot in all the citizens vote on it and many of the things that we do that started the whole building energy issues came about because citizens were very much involved in making those changes now I know because I gave money to Stacy Abrams that around here it's been a little bit harder to have what looks like a really robust democracy but I think working towards that and making sure that you have the ear of people who are in leadership in business leadership and in political leadership is shoe Julie important so you know a lot of times architects we get locked in our own little language in our own little place right how do you even know anybody in the political science department or the business school could you do that's great but most of you don't write you're not going to have their ears if you don't get to know them now so one of the things you want to do is you want to figure out ways that you can actually influence people who can make change and that was something I had a lot of interesting conversations with architects about right after the nuclear power plants because I would go and I'm kind of naive and I'd say well we never really talked about this before but like how do you influence your politicians and they go like in flu my politician.

[01:23:33]
I don't influence my politicians and I say well like do you go talk to them and some of these guys are like the hence of big corporations and stuff and they'd say no I don't talk to them right. And they have very limited voice in really important areas where we can make a big difference so I think those are the things that you guys need to be working on and if you do that when these things start to percolate up as people are like you know Georgia is really having a lot of economic damage and you are already because of climate change then you can say we can be part of the solution we got this we really know how to do this you know like insulating buildings It's like brushing our teeth right so it's that easy now let's go see Mark's show thank you very much.