the Living History Interview with Frank Smith, class of 1955, conducted by Marilyn Summers on June the 13th, the year 2005. 

We are at the Synergy Building in Atlanta, Georgia, and the subject of the interview today is his life in general and his experiences at Georgia Tech. Mr. Smith, it's a pleasure to be with you here today, and I'm going to call you Frank. You said that was fine. I've been trying to run you down for a few years now, so it's a pleasure to have you here today, sir. It's good to be here. And thank you so much. Let's start at the beginning. Tell me where you were born and when. I was born in Columbus, Georgia in November of 1931. 

What were your mom and dad doing there? 

Well, they were suffering under the Depression like everybody else was at the time. 

But was that their home place? 

That was where both of them were born and lived all their life. 

And what was your dad's occupation at that time? 

He eventually wound up being an electrical contractor, but he was an electrician for many years before he started his own business. And having a hard time with the depression. Oh, yeah. 

And then finally, believe it or not, the thing that cured the depression in Columbus was World War II because of Fort Benning. Isn't it a shame that it has to be that way? 

It was tragic that it had to be that way. Yeah, but that seems to be the way the world has grown. I mean, it's just the way it is. You said both your parents were born in Columbus. Right. 

How about their parents? 

Were your grandparents from there, too? 

Actually, I think if you count, I'm a five-generation Georgia. George and my great -great-grandfather, Simeon Smith, moved to Georgia in 1830. Early people then, really early. Early, even before, while it was still Indian territory. And he moved here from Maryland back in, as I say, 1830. And so the name Smith, you would think, would be very hard to trace ancestrally. But, you know, they all lived in the same place for all those years. And it was really quite simple to do. Yeah, isn't that nice? 

So they all applied their trade in the Columbus area. That's right. 

And technically, my father was born and grew up in Harris County, which is just a bedroom community of Columbus. 

But he worked in Columbus all of his career. That's amazing that they stayed right in one place like that. It is in it. Yeah, because it doesn't happen anymore. No. 

So you've been able to look back. 

When you were born, were some of your extended family around? 

Did you have grandparents to know? 

I had all my grandparents that died, but my mother was one of six girls. 

So you had aunts. 

So I had aunts like crazy. Yeah. And my father was one. You know, worse things could have happened to you. No, that's right. Aunts are great. 

I was the first grandson, so to speak, so I was the apple of a lot of people's eye, which I took advantage of as best I knew how. It comes natural, doesn't it? 

I only knew it after I got grown that I could do it. I bet you had done that. Did you have brothers and sisters? 

I have a sister. I have a sister. Younger or older? 

She's older and lives in Baldosta, Georgia. Oh, boy. 

So you really were the baby boy. That's right. And everybody's little darling, huh? 

Yeah, that's right. 

And my father had three sisters, though, and two brothers, and so we had lots of, we could fill up a dining room table pretty quick. That's the point I was trying to get to. You knew what it is to be around family. Oh, yeah. You had a lot of family input. What was Columbus like when you were growing up at that time? 

Well, it's funny. 

I used to have a hobby of knowing the population of cities when I was growing up, and so one of those hobbies was the population of cities. and the population of Columbus at the time was 53,280. Whoa, it was a pretty big thing. It's right big. 

Yeah, but did you grow up in a neighborhood that seemed like you were in a smaller community? 

Oh, I grew up in a neighborhood that you walked everywhere you went. You walked a block east to go to the movie, and you walked a block west to go to the drugstore. Everybody knew everybody in that area. Everybody knew everybody, and everybody knew everybody's relative, too. 

So you better be careful about who you met. The point being is everybody was keeping an eye on everybody, too, weren't they? 

That's right. You better watch out. Yeah, so you had a pretty safe, comfortable coming up despite the bad times. Oh, yeah. And that you knew you were loved and you felt safe. Yeah. We never knew there was a depression when we were growing up. Isn't that interesting? 

Because they kept you safe. Yeah. Everybody kept you safe. They didn't bother you with their worries. No. 

Time to start school when you were, what, five, six years old? 

You started the school, and depending on your birthday, if it was before September, you started school at 6. And if you were 6 after September, you started the next year. 

So you didn't start until you were almost 7. I was almost 7. Were you ready? 

Not really. You didn't want to go to school? 

No. 

Well, I enjoyed school. 

Usually if you're like, you know, your sister was older than you, you like to go just for the social, if nothing else. That's right, yeah. You get to meet a lot of other kids and fool around. You did okay in school, though, in early school. 

What's your earliest memory of going to school? 

Do you have any special teacher from that time? 

Well, I remember several things which you, I think, find amazing that they would be things that I remember. 

The first thing I remember was being told that I couldn't eat during any time. I could not eat a sandwich because it was not the lunch hour. 

I mean, you know, the teacher pulled me aside and said, Frank, you can't eat while the class was going on. Because you really thought you could. I thought I could. I didn't see anything wrong with that. And the other thing, it gets back to the depression again. 

I had a real good friend, you know, six years old, and he used to always bring a sandwich for lunch, which I really, his mother, I thought, must be wonderful because she made such good sandwiches. And what the sandwich was was lettuce and mayonnaise, and that was it. Oh, my goodness. And it wasn't until I was grown that I realized that's all he could afford. Oh, my goodness. They were probably growing the lettuce, too, huh? 

That's right, probably. Weren't likely. Yeah, that's right, yeah. And you thought that was great, huh? 

It's just a question of adjusting. That's right. I thought that was wonderful, yeah. 

So when you think back to those early days, it was a pretty happy time for you. Oh, yeah. Despite the time. Yeah. 

How about when you got into middle school? 

Things change much? 

Well, you know, kids get meaner as they get older, up to a point, and I don't think, I think I enjoy the early school days better than I did middle school. Yeah, well, they're tough times when you start coming of age. Yeah, and I had the best time of anybody to know in the man in high school, so. 

But that in-between time wasn't so pleasant. It was that in-between time that it was a little uncertain. They couldn't, they didn't know who I was, really. Yeah, so growing up. Did you get involved in sports? 

Yes, I did. As early as junior high? 

Yeah, yeah. I played football and baseball just about as long as I can remember. Really? 

Yeah. 

So when you got into high school, would that have been 8th grade, 8th, 9th, 10th, 11th? 

Or what was the grade? 

We didn't have, when I went to school, we had a 12-year program, but we didn't have junior high. The middle school? 

The middle school. We just, I think we went through the 8th grade in elementary school. and then went right on to high school. Okay. And when you got in high school, you played sports a little more seriously then. I mean, you went out for the teams. Yeah, sure. Did you do good? 

I did very well. 

So you were a good athlete. 

Well, I thought I was a lot better than a lot of people did. You were a big athlete because you're a big man. Yeah. 

So you must have stood out in the crowd, as they say, huh? 

Oh, yeah. But, you know, you get on the football team, a lot of people are as big as you are, too. Surprise. That's why they're that surprise. AND YOU SAID IT WAS BASEBALL AND FOOTBALL AND NOT BASKETBALL? 

NO, I NEVER PLAYED BASKETBALL. 

IT JUST WASN'T SOMETHING DONE AROUND YOUR TIME? 

I PLAYED FOOTBALL ALL FALL AS YOU KNOW HOW LONG FOOTBALL SEASON IS. IT STARTS IN THE SUMMER AND THEN IT DOESN'T GET OVER UNTIL CHRISTMAS TIME. IT'S SO IMPORTANT. I DIDN'T WANT TO GO PLAYING SOMETHING ELSE AND THAT WAS BASKETBALL SEASON. REALLY FOOTBALL IS THE IMPORTANT SPORT IN MOST SMALL TOWNS IN GEORGIA. IT IS, YEAH. so you were encouraged your mama didn't mind you playing no she would sometimes get rather traumatized oh I think so you know I got knocked out on kickoff one time and I was laying there flat flat on my back for I don't know how long oh it scared the heck out of her scared her to death but she knew that's what you had to do that's right and she stayed in the sand the sand thank God you would have never lived it down if she didn't hit the field would you no you see that that happens sometimes but i know kids just oh please keep my mother away so um so all together you had a good time in high school oh i had a real good time i was surrounded by lots of friends uh you know with good allies we just it was good clean fun we didn't have the problems kids have today we didn't have the drugs we didn't have and i don't think we ought to get paranoid about that but but we really didn't have them we were just as innocent as they were small yeah that's it a time of innocence and the ground was flat and the times were good yeah so it doesn't get better than that huh it doesn't get any better than that and tell me where along this process did you decide you were going to go to college or is it something you always knew you were going to do my father never let me entertain the idea of anything else. I was a given that I was going to go to college. Had he been to college? 

No, he hadn't been to college. 

But he knew how valuable it would be. 

So he by gosh was going to have you going. That's right. End of the story, huh? 

That's it. How did you pick Georgia Tech? 

Well, maybe I'd better tell you this. One of the best -kept secrets known to man is that I went to the University of Alabama for a while. Oh, you did? 

Well, now that's pretty interesting. When I graduated from high school, I went to the University of Alabama. 

The reason I did was because I thought I wanted to be a doctor, and it had a reputation at the time of getting a higher percentage of its undergraduate students into medical school. 

So I went to the University of Alabama. 

Why did you think you wanted to be a doctor? 

What provoked that in your mind? 

A guy that I admired and was always very kind to me was a doctor. Oh, that's right. name was Nathan *****. I'll never forget him. That's nice, isn't it? 

It is nice. 

So he was a role model for you to look up to. Yeah. 

So you started, what year did you graduate from high school? 1950. 1950. 

Okay, so you started in Alabama that fall. I started in Alabama the fall of 1950. And of course then you were just taking undergraduate courses, core courses. 

How'd you do? 

Well, I didn't do very well because I was taking biology I don't think it was as difficult to transfer it, say, to Georgia Tech, so I don't think it was as difficult as Georgia Tech was in the first year. I've always said that. How long did you stay in Alabama? 

Just only a semester. 

Oh, one semester and that was enough? 

After I got through with all that sort of stuff, I said, Frank, there's no way you're going to be a doctor. 

So you gave up that dream. 

So I gave up that dream. Yeah. And then start looking around to see where else you might go? 

Yeah. 

Well, I had been recruited to play football at Tech. By whom? 

By Coach Dodd. Bobby Dodd? 

Had he seen you play? 

Yeah. He was aware of it? 

You had talked to him? 

Yeah. And you turned that down? 

Yeah. To go to U. S.? 

In fact, they called me the day that I was supposed to report Georgia Tech dinner. And actually, the guy that recruited me the most was Ray Graves, who was a wonderful man. Just a wonderful coach and a wonderful man. 

And they called me the day that I was supposed to report, and I hadn't because I was going to the University of Alabama. And somehow I hadn't told them. Maybe that's why it was a well-kept secret. I know. It's a wonder they'd even admit to ever offering me anything because of the way I treated them. 

But anyway, I called Coach Graves up and said, I'd like to come to Tech. 

And he said, well, you're going to lose a year of eligibility, but come on, we'll still like for me to be here. 

So they did offer you a football scholarship? 

Yeah, so I came over. 

Okay, so you transferred, started then with a winter semester? 

Started with, see, Tech was on the quarter system. Oh, okay. And so I started in the third quarter. 

Okay, because Alabama was on the semesters? 

Yeah, they were on the semesters. 

Okay, so it was after the holidays. It was after the holidays. I tell you, the day I started was March 26, 1951. It was way after the holidays, okay. That's right, yeah. 

So you came, well, we had terrific teams at that time. Oh, yeah, yeah, that's why you have a hard time getting to play. 

The second and the third strings were all wonderfully gifted players, too. Yeah, we must have had 25 halfbacks who could play anywhere they wanted to play. 

Now, you didn't play at all because of that one year you lost of eligibility, which means you couldn't show up until the following summer, which would have been the summer of 51. Yeah. for the first little chance at playing football. Right, right. 

So you came into Tech in March just to be a regular student. Right. And do you remember where you stayed? 

Did you go in there? 

I stayed in Cloudman Dormitory. That first? 106 Cloudman Dormitory. With all the other football players. That's right. At that time. 

How did you know Cloudman was a football Dormitory? 

Because I interviewed some of the other football players. I know. I know. That's really all to say. Very few people know that. I think it was, well, it wasn't too long after that that Dodd changed the system and everybody. It was the next year. Yeah. 

But at that time that you were here, I would know that it would be Codon, which must have been one heck of a place to be. Oh, brother. Talk about testosterone. I'm telling you. I mean, big guys, too, I'm telling you. Oh, yeah. They both had legs like mules. 

Well, how did you do when you started in school? 

Now, let's not talk about football yet. You're going to classes. 

Well, yeah, I'm going to classes, but I didn't do very well there either. I just didn't know how to study. That was the big part. That's the key to make success. It is. 

And I've often said, too, that a tech degree is a test or proof of stamina rather than intellect because they literally just work you to death, especially the first year, 21 hours. Isn't that unbelievable? 21 quarter hours. And you thought you were going from the pot into the fire, no doubt. Oh, man, I did. I said, what is going on here? 

In fact, I went back and said I might come back. 

What were you coming to tech for? 

Did you have to declare a discipline? 

I was where I wanted to play football and it's where I loved it. 

Okay, but I mean you didn't declare a discipline, engineering or? 

Well, they didn't have college boards in those days. I mean, not college boards, but college SATs. SATs, right. Exactly. 

So, but they did put me through a little test with a fellow by the name of Horace Sturges. I don't know, you know, Horace Sturges and I. We turned out to be, as I grew up, great friends. Horace was the associate registrar at Georgia Tech for 24 years. Oh, okay. 24 years. Just think of that. 

So he knew kids. Yeah. Yep. 

And it went from there, from being a registrar at Georgia Tech to being the president of Kennesaw State College. Oh, I see. 

So, I mean, he made Kennesaw what it is. I mean, he got it off on the right foot in the right way. 

Now, did he counsel you on what you want to be taking? 

Well, yeah, he did. And where did he put you, in industrial management? 

Well, I told him. 

I said, what else do you teach other than engineering? 

And so he said, do we have to teach industrial management? 

I said, well, I'll take that. 

But it was still hard. Oh, listen, it was the same course. I mean, everybody was taking the same thing. I was just beating you up. Did they offer you tutoring because you were in the program? 

Oh, yeah. Thank God. My dad, thank God. Listen, I'd be dead without that. 

So you applied yourself and you gradually caught on to the fact that you had to focus. Yeah. 

But I'm going to finish out that part of my story, but the only way I got through tech was getting tutored. Fortunately, my dad gave me the money to get tutored because I really went to college twice. Once tutored and once publicly. It was that hard, huh? 

Yeah, it was for me. I made the dean's list the last quarter that I was here, though. Which is, what an accomplishment. 

I mean, if you think about it, you know, starting in the hole and working your way to the very tippy-top. I'm proud of it. 

Well, you ought to be. You sure ought to be. 

Now, what happened at the end of that quarter after you were still here? 

You weren't on academic probation or anything. No. 

So were you allowed to come out then for, well, you weren't for that first year. You weren't allowed to come out for a job. No, you could then. Oh, okay. You could practice. 

But you couldn't play. You couldn't play. 

Okay, so you went to your first practice. And I practiced and all that, yeah. 

So you got to know some of the guys. Oh, yeah. I can tell you, everybody in every position they played. There were a stellar group of people. Oh, they were outstanding men. And you had the best coaches in the world. Oh, yeah. Every one of them to this day still speaks reverently of people like Graves. Oh, yeah. And Frank... Broils. Frank Broils. And, of course, Bobby Dott. Yeah, sure. And so you were right there mixing it up with the best of them. Did you enjoy playing football with them? 

Oh, yeah. I wish I could have run as fast as they did. They were better than you. In fact, you may have interviewed one of them. I always get a kid about John Hunsinger. Oh, yes, Johnny. 

Well, Johnny, I remember meeting at spring practice in March of 51. And Johnny was fast as lightning. And I tell the story about I met him, and I did an end run on him, and I tried to catch him. and I'd still be chasing him if he hadn't had to go to class. That's the way it ended, huh? 

I know, that's the way it ended with me back where I started. Yeah, there were fast ones, big ones, little ones, and a lot of smart ones, too. You had a wonderful group of people. 

So school started again in the fall, and you knew you weren't going to be able to play with the game. You couldn't even play on the freshman team, nothing, for that first year. 

So that gave you an extra year to buckle down and do well. 

But I didn't do it. 

But I didn't use the time, you know, like I could have. As productively as you might have? 

As productively as I could have. What else did you get involved in on the campus during that period of time? 

Well, fraternity. I loved SA. 

So that you were rushed and you accepted them? 

Yeah, and I accepted that. And there were a lot of the boys that were in fraternities at that time. That was the only thing we had in town. It was the only game there was. It was the only social life we could have. We didn't have a student son or didn't have, you know, a rec son or a place to go or whatever. There was nothing, if they only could see today what you guys had to put up with. Oh, boy, I'm telling you. They're so lucky they don't know it. It's wonderful to see them have a lot of money. 

Well, when you think back at that time, you're not playing football. You did join the fraternity, and you're struggling with school. 

Now, the fraternity put pressure on you to do well in school, too, because they wanted you to do well. What else did you get involved with? 

You had a secret life here, Frank. I know. I'm drawing a blank. You had to have gotten involved in things because you were tapped for ANAC. That wasn't until later, but they had to have a reason to do that. 

Well, let me tell you this, I got tapped for ANAC as an alumnus. You were an alum already? 

Yeah. 

Well, I was alum already when I got into ANAC, when I was tapped for ANAC. And they just put you, we looked it up and it said you were the class of 55, so it didn't happen. 

Well, that's the way they put me in the record book. Oh, but it didn't happen while you were here at school. No, sure. Oh, okay. 

Well, that sets one story straight. Okay. All right. 

Now I want you to tell me some stories about what was it like to be at Georgia Tech. 

Well, I don't know whether you want to put this in on the film or not, but let me tell you what my first day at Tech was like. Please. 

It was in Cloudman Dermatory, and you may have heard some other famous stories involved with this, but I will tell a story about two guys who should remain nameless. decided, I don't know what the altercation was, but they were in the room across the hall from my room. I just happened to be there. And it's my first day there. And so, words come about between these two guys, who are obviously quite athletic and quite strong. And before you know it, they got a brawl going. And I'm trying to get out of the room. 

I can't get out of the room for being in between in the brawl so finally I get out of there and one of them by that time has gotten a bed slap out of out of the bed and has broken it over this guy's back oh my word and the next thing a few hours later the police show up and and to arrest one of them One of them has gone downtown and preferred charges against the other one. 

Now, that was my first day as a 17-year-old at Tech. What an impression that made. I thought, my gosh, what have I gotten myself into here? 

Hopefully, that was an isolated incident. It was. It was very isolated, thankfully. 

But because if it had occurred again, I think I'd have to leave. You'd have probably scared to death. Yeah, that's right. 

What about the professors? 

Did you meet anybody that you thought was a good professor? 

I was always amazed at the professors at Georgia Tech, and I'll tell you why. They were either very, very good or they were horrible. 

And I only realized what had happened as I looked back on the thing from after being out for, say, 25 years or so. 

And a fellow used this example, just said the same reason existed where we had such good public servant employees. in Atlanta and these people were of the age that they when they graduated they were cast out into the street by the depression and they were lucky enough they were lucky enough to find a job in a public sector which paid whether the depression was there or not and if they did they even got script payments that to get paid and so you had the cream of the crop that came out, say, of college in 1931 and 1932, and they were teaching school. 

And then you had a lot that came out of the college in 1938 and 1940, and they went into the service and came back after the war, and they were teaching school. 

So you had people here who were having outstanding backgrounds and records teaching, which were the best ones you could find. They really were good. And then you had others that fell into the, you know, average, you know, fill up the day kind of job. And that was, they were the bad ones. Were you lucky enough to get some good ones? 

Oh, yeah, I had a lot of good ones. Can you remember anybody's name? 

Oh, yeah, easily. Tell me something. I say easily. One of the two that I remember so well, because they turned me around. I went from D's and F's one quarter to A's and B's the next, principally because of these two guys. Not only in taking their courses, but having them teach me how to study. They were Jim Sweeney and Walter Buckingham. 

Well, that's wonderful for you to remember them, because they're probably long gone now. They were. Walter, he committed suicide, unfortunately. He was president of Drexel when he did. 

But there's nobody to sing their praises anymore, so it's nice to know that you really thought they were good teachers and they cared about you. Jim Sweeney was head of the business school, I think, at Tulane. I don't know about that title, but I think that's what it was. 

But they helped you. They not only were teaching you the subject matter, but they were teaching you how to study it. They told me what it was all about. 

So that you could. 

They were saying that you're here to learn how to work and to represent Georgia Tech when you get out, and it's going to be like we were teaching baseball. You're going to play for the New York Yankees, and we're not going to have anything less. Wow. Yeah. 

So you were given some responsibility. Oh, yeah. They were very serious about what school was all about. There were a lot of instructors that got nicknames for various things. Do you remember any of them? 

Well, it was Batman. An unbelievable character. Yeah, I'm telling you. Absolutely unbelievable. I saw it and I couldn't believe it. I had one course from it and I could not believe it. It was just the way they said it was, huh? 

Yeah, just the way they said it was. I just couldn't believe it. Who else? 

Some of the old darlings that were still around, George Griffin was still here. Oh, Dean Griffin is an institution unto himself. God, the place ought to be named after him. 

Did he have to get after you? 

Well, he got me out of trouble one time, and I happened to be president of the fraternity. Oh. 

And we had this unfortunate experience where somebody, I was an SAE, and across the house, across the street, the Beta house was across the street, directly across the street. 

Well, one of the good SAE brothers got up in the second story of the SAE house when I was president and began to shoot BBs or air rifle pellets into the windows in the Beta house. Oh, no. And they caught him, caught, you know, and caught everybody else was doing any kind of shenanigans. 

Well, because it was fraternity center, and I wasn't there, but I was the president, so they called me up on the rug to, D. Griffin did, to give me a Hail Columbia about having all that kind of stuff going on. See, he said to both his sons, I'd say. Oh, boy. But. He let you know you better make them. 

Well, he told me this. He says, we're going to, they had a thing at Tech then, a disciplinary action they took you. They gave you an offense, and you couldn't have three offenses and graduate. Oh. You had to. It was really sort of military-based. 

If you got an offense, you could work it off. You didn't walk the yard on them or anything like that, but you did something. I don't know what it was. 

But you can only, you got three of those, and if you got three, you were out of school. And so Dean Griffin says, we're going to give you an offense for this occurring. And I said, well, wait a minute, Dean, I already got two, and it's going to put me out of school. 

But he recanted and didn't kick me out of school because it was, you know. 

Well, you hadn't had anything to do with it. I didn't have anything to do with it. That's why he let me go. Yeah, I guess in the long run it wouldn't have been fair at all. 

But you were expected to keep all the brothers in line. Oh, yeah, you're right. If they didn't stay in line, it's your problem. What a terrible problem to have. You can't keep people like that in line. No, in fact, the SAE is not on campus anymore because they can't govern themselves. Uh-huh. 

So it was a forerunner of what came to pass, huh? 

Yeah, that's right. Keeping them in line. That's right. What are some of the other good memories? 

The SAE, you said, offered you a social life. What was a social life here at Georgia Tech? 

Well, believe it or not, it was pretty good. I believe it because of why. Tell me what was going on. 

Well, most of it, as I've said before, was fraternity-centered. You'd have parties. Yeah. 

And in the fall, which was the highlight of the social season, you typically had a dance and the fraternity hired a band. Big bands. Big bands. Usually, they're 12 pieces, probably. Usually, the S. A. E.s had one every weekend during the football season. Oh. Oh. 

So this wasn't a big black-tie thing that, uh. Just a regular dance. Just a regular dance. 

Now, the, let's see, if we go to the 52 season, you couldn't play 51 season, but by 52, you could play. I wasn't physically able to play. 

Well, what happened? 

Well, you just saw me walk in on it. I had very bad arthritis. Even when you were that young? 

Uh-huh, yeah. And they didn't know what to do with it, they don't know what to do with it today. 

But I had bad knees and they didn't do anything to knees at all. Oh, in those days. In those days. 

And it didn't do you any good to be playing football on those kind of knees? 

In fact, the school, his name, football doctor, Lamont Henry, said I'd better stop playing and I wouldn't be walking by the time I was, you know, 35 years old. It wasn't that bad. 

So you had to give up the whole concept? up the whole concept of that. And then your dad had to start paying tuition and you weren't on a scholarship anymore. That's right. He could afford it. It was okay then. Yeah, it was okay. It was okay. Yeah. 

But it changed the whole perspective of your life from being, you know, being Mr. Big Football to being... Oh, not really. I fell in love. Oh, you found something to substitute for that. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, in fact, we were, my wife and I were married the last year that I was in school. 

So, well, you'll have to tell me how you met Kathy. All right. You fell in love. Tell me how love entered the picture. 

Well, I met my wife. That's how it fell into the picture. How did you meet her? 

Well, it's a little bit complicated. As I told you, I had gone to the University of Alabama. And she had gone to the University of Alabama. And I did not know her when she was there at the University of Alabama. 

Well, I did know her too, but I didn't date at the time when she was at the University of Alabama. 

But a friend of mine who was an S. A. E. at Tech, a guy named Joe Hall, said that there's a girl over there that goes to Alabama, you ought to date, and I said, really, what's her name? 

Kathy Rogers. 

So I started to look up Kathy Rogers, and when I looked up Kathy Rogers, she was pinned to some Sigma Chi. That didn't work. 

So I said, why waste my time with that, that doesn't work. And so time goes by, and I see her down at the beach. I've forgotten. This must have been 1952, yeah, 1952. 

So you're firmly going to Tech at this time. Yeah, yeah. What beach? 

Where were you? 

What beach? 

Daytona Beach. Okay. You just happened to run into her. Just happened to run into her. 

In fact, she was having dinner at this restaurant, quite a well-known restaurant, I can't remember the name of it, with the girl she was down there with and two other people. 

So we talked, and I saw that click up here. It says, you know, I'll go back to school. I'll look her up, which I did. 

After finally getting it established over the phone that she was no longer pinned to SIGMA CHI, I HAD NOT MARRIED AND HAD NO PLANTS TO, I GOT A DATE. BUT SHE WAS IN ALABAMA AND YOU WERE IN ATLANA. SHE HAD LEFT THEN. I LEFT AT A VERY IMPORTANT PART. WHERE WAS SHE LIVING? 

IN ATLANA WITH HER MOTHER AND DAD. OH, RIGHT AT HAND. AH-HA. RIGHT ON WOODWOOD WAY. AH-HA. NOT HARD AT ALL TO MEET HER. NOT HARD AT ALL TO MEET HER. SO, TO MAKE A LONG STORY SHORT, WE 'VE BEEN MARRIED 50-SOMEHOW YEARS. SO YOU STARTED DATING RIGHT OFF THE BAT? 

THAT'S RIGHT. 

Knew you were in love, and that kind of made it feel not so bad that you weren't on the football team. Oh, yeah. I didn't miss it a bit. Did you go to the games, though? 

Oh, yeah. Did you take Kathy with you? 

Yeah, sure. What was it like to go to a football game in the 50s? 

Well, it... I mean, it had to be exciting because it was... Oh, it was good. It was fun because everybody, it was just, you know, they won all the time. And did really, even after 51 and 52, they lost maybe one game in 53, and that's, I don't think. They were definitely Bobby Dodd's golden years. Oh, yeah. They could do no wrong. 

And because you had a pretty girl on your arm, it didn't hurt so bad that you weren't out on the field, huh? 

No. 

Well, I look back. You were good about that. Yeah. And by this time, you were doing better in school, too. Oh, yeah. I was doing better in school. Much better in school. 

So you felt comfortable by this time? 

Yeah. Yeah. Did you were in the right place? 

Yeah. My dad was good enough to buy me a car. Oh, wow. 

So that really made things nice. Oh, wow. What kind of car did you get? 

Well, it wasn't a new one. It was a 1949 Chevrolet. Not too bad. It was, you know, a two-goer. 

But it looked like a Cadillac to me, you know. It was the best thing that ever happened. Oh, yeah. 

Well, maybe you met on the campus, too, because everybody didn't have cars, did they? 

No, they didn't. You know, we just parked on the street. That's how few of them there were. That's really a joke today, isn't it? 

You couldn't do that. 

But can you imagine being in Atlanta trying to get around without a car? 

But people did. I did, yeah. 

So with wheels, you got along a lot more places than other people got to go. 

Now, being from Columbus, which was not a small town, it was a pretty good-sized city, but coming to Atlanta was a lot different. You had a lot more opportunities here. 

What did you all do? 

Like, what was the typical date? 

I know you didn't have much money, but what would you do? 

Well, the typical date was a movie. Movies. And maybe a snack or, you know, something after. Yeah, afterwards. Afterward. We didn't ever go to the varsity with a date. Not that there was anything wrong with it, but we went somewhere else. 

Where? 

Where would you have gone? 

There was a little place on Peachtree where Peachtree and Spring merge where Equifax is right now. called Crossroads and it was a drive-in restaurant where they used to do it where you drove in and the car hop came out and got your order or there was another place on Peachtree Road north of there which I think was called Rusty's. 

So if you had a date you'd do something a little classier like that yeah and and if you if you really wanted to do something classy maybe you'd go out to Donna first and then you go dancing or oh there was that you could dance at some of the hotels oh okay we had a lot of hotels in downtown that's right they know they were all downtown too so you could go downtown and dance it was a pretty wonderful time wasn't it oh yeah it was so it was so simple and straightforward and not much fear or uncertainty pretty wonderful time it was a wonderful time yeah so you and Kathy started keeping company pretty steady then yeah to the point where you were ready to get married yeah in 1954 you said 54 August of 54 and was she working yeah where did she go to work that was if she worked first few years we were dating married She worked at Central Chevrolet, which was a Chevrolet dealer in Bucket and no longer exists but there are still people around who remember and actually worked for them too. 

So you were able to live where? 

Did you live on the campus and married housing? 

I really lived on the campus either in Glen dormitory or in the SAE house. Not after you got married? 

No, no. Once you got married, where would you live? 

We rented an apartment on Peachtree Road. And so you commuted to school for that last year. And she worked for Coca-Cola. They say that after... 

So they were right across the street from the school. Oh, right over here, yeah. I've been told by others that when they got married, the grades got better. Oh, they did. Much better. Did that work for you? 

Oh, yeah. I blend ******. That's why I made the Dean's List. 

It's like, okay, I've got to buckle down and get this over with because I've got things to do and places to go, right? 

That's right, yeah. It's also called growing up, that maturing takes place. 

Well, if I wanted to get a job, I had to make grades to explain why I did such a lousy job my first few years, and whoever was going to hire me. See, to prove you could do it. That's right, yeah. 

When you look back at that time, Frank, from 51 to 55, those four years that you were here on the campus, what do you think of? 

Was it a happy time, a hard time, everything you did? 

We've been talking about football and Coach Dodd and I got to be very close friends when I became president of the Alumni Association and a lot of other reasons that threw us together. 

He once told me, he says, you know, Frank, I'd have signed a lifetime contract to keep playing high school football and I'd signed a lifetime contract to live the life that I led between 51 and 55. Because it was okay. It was okay. Every time I reached with my hand in my pocket I had money in it. Not big money, but I always had, it seemed like to me it was more than adequate. 

I think you were here at a really amazing time for, you know, when I go out and talk to Georgia Tech clubs, I always talk about the 50s. 

You had, first you had Blake Van Leer, who was the president, you know, fine military gentleman, you know, very upstanding. You had Dean Griffin, who, as you said, was a legend into himself. You had Bobby Dodd. You had Freddie Lanou, who was a character. Oh, he was a character. 

But he also built character. I mean, he really made people do more than they could do, which built their character. 

So really, you really were here probably at the best time in the history of the school, as far as having outstanding role models for young men to emulate. Right. 

Frank, when we think about these times, and I was mentioning Freddie LaNue, did you have an experience with him, per chance? 

I took 20. And you passed okay? 

Oh, yeah. Actually, if you were playing a sport, you got an automatic B in the PE courses. Uh-huh. 

But in Freddie's class, or whatever you want, Mr. LaNue, whatever you want to call him, you had to prove that you could swim. Could you? 

Oh, yeah. Yeah. I was a fish. Swimming PE never concerned me at all. 

But I didn't really take his course. Okay. You just proved... I made a bee in his course. I just proved I could swim from one end of the pool to the other. There were people who couldn't do that. Oh, I know it. There were dozens of them. There were a lot of them there when I was doing my thing. And I thought, man, I'm telling you, I wouldn't put up with that. 

Well, you know, they didn't get their degrees if they didn't pass them. I know. I mean, there actually were people that left here without a degree after all that sweat and toil. It's amazing. And yet, he really did build confidence in yourself. 

If you didn't know how to swim and you made yourself do it. What about Mrs. Croslow? 

Did you ever come across her? 

Library? 

Boy, there's an alumnus. Yeah, no, I know when you were a student. 

Did you go to the library to study? 

I went to the library to study all the time because it was the only air-conditioned building in this place. Was it really? 

Yeah. Because it was a brand new library. It was a brand new library, and you could go in there, and nobody went there. 

I don't know why they didn't, but I was sure I wasn't going to tell anybody to go there, because I wanted to have it. You caught on quick. Isn't that interesting? 

But it is. 

I wrote many a book report or a term paper or whatever in that library, sitting in the lounge chairs and live in the lap there was a lap of luxury as far as I was concerned that's hilarious that they didn't no one had caught on to that I know it yeah yeah so those are really really great years for you they were wonderful times okay so you get out of school at that time would you have interviewed for jobs while you were on campus your senior year oh yeah yeah I was did you get a lot of interviews I got a lot of interviews I was with it with of course I I don't think they, they just, the only thing they knew is what part of the class you were in academically, upper third, middle third, lower third. 

But I had a lot of job interviews and I had a lot of offers. I got, I had, and I'll tell you a funny story, I got offered jobs by GE and Westinghouse and IBM. and I was caught up in a dilemma because to go to work for either Westinghouse or GE both of which played more than IBM at the time would require that I move to Pittsburgh in the case of had to go through the training programs right yeah and and to Schenectady with GE and the The only other alternative was IBM when I could have worked in Atlanta. 

Well, I didn't have the money to pay the moving bill. My wife and I couldn't afford to pay the moving bill. 

So you had to take the lowest offer, huh? 

So I had to take the job with IBM, which I always considered after scientific study, you know, and I decided to do it. Best decision I ever made, really. Yeah, it really was, but you didn't know it at the time. 

For you, it was what you were settling for, right? 

Yeah, but I learned very quickly that I had not made a mistake. Which is good, which is a good thing for you to know. 

And I always continue, when you take a job, you know that whether you made a mistake or not in about three days. Yeah, pretty fast, pretty fast. What the heck am I doing here kind of stuff. 

So did you find that the placement service was helpful to you? 

It was wonderful. 

So that whole system worked great. It worked great. They taught you how to do your resume, so you would... Gave you an outline to do with a resume, got it printed for you, had your picture made. That's what it was all about. And easy sell, as they say. 

Now, Frank, had you taken ROTC when you were here the first two years? 

No, I didn't. I had taken ROTC in high school, so I didn't have to take the first two years of ROTC. 

Oh, you didn't? 

And then I had, because of my injury on my knee, my leg, I couldn't get into the second, third and fourth year, which are years in which you... Would get your commission. Would get your commission. 

So you didn't have to worry about the service then. The military was not a situation that was worrying you. We still had the draft, but the war had... 

Well, I tell you... At that time, Korea had died down, but now it was starting to kick up. It was still ******* up all the time. 

When I was in school, it wasn't a matter of if you were going to the service, it was just a matter of when. 

But you didn't have to go. 

But I didn't have to. Because of your physicality. I've often regretted it, frankly. 

Well, yeah, but if you couldn't walk good enough or if it would have been worse. 

Well, the only salvation that I take, or at least comfort that I've taken in having not been able to do it, was the head of the draft board told me, I asked him, I said, I don't understand why they won't take me, because I knew a lot of people that were much worse shape than I was, that they had taken, I thought. And he said, well, I'll tell you why. 

He says, you shoot, you get in the foxhole, and you shoot somebody in the leg, you take one person out, you shoot somebody in the, no, I'm sorry, I got it backwards, take a scratch all this. 

If you shoot them in the head and kill them, you take one person out. 

If you shoot them in the leg, you take three out. 

So there's two of them got to carry them off the battlefield. Which is a lesson to think about, isn't it? 

That's right. 

So he said, we don't want you out to end it, foxhole, because we'll lose two other guys. 

So you didn't have to worry about that. 

So many of the young folks did. No, I didn't. And you could get right to a career. 

And what did IBM have in mind for you they trained me as a what they call electronic accounting machine salesman okay I was one of I take pride in the fact that I was one of the first people IBM ever hired off of engineering campus really it wasn't their habit to do that what it seems like a no -brainer why would they well it just hadn't reached that state of that stage in life and but after they hired me they were satisfied with what I could do even as an industrial management student. In fact, they liked the mixture of the two. There was enough math and physics and whatever to understand the product. Yeah, to understand the product, but enough of the arts, so to speak. The marketing. The marketing and that kind of thing. 

So you were a salesman. Yeah. 

Did it mean you had to travel? all over the world oh boy and I hated it at the time but I realized what a good time I had well I mean a young Mary doesn't want to take off and no see the world if you can't bring her with you so I mean it's a burden when you travel well at the time you see we didn't have the kind of transportation system we've got now where you can fly home on the weekend yeah no no really no matter where you didn't start all over the world where did you start right locally well locally I was decided in Atlanta okay and you did well so the training program was like to almost two years really that long yeah that's unheard of that's that's the way it was then and what did they expect from you at the end of two years then you're gonna go well you had a territory that you had to manage and you had a source of revenue that see there were all rental machines and so you had to make sure that they kept those machines on rental you know one discontinuing it or not using an MOI or God forbid using a competitor's product. 

Now it's up to you to get in and hustle that then? 

That's right. 

So it was... And where was your first territory? 

Tallahassee, Florida. 

So you stayed in the south? 

Yeah. And you'd go during the week and come home on the weekend initially to start with? 

Yeah. And was it in car? 

Yeah. A lot of driving. A lot of driving. A lot of driving. 

But you felt like you were making a difference and it was a good place to be. Yeah, and I made a lot of money, too. Because you were good at it. 

Well, I was good at it, but they paid well, too. Did they? 

Yeah. 

So you started there in 55, and you stayed with them for a long time, Frank. That's right. How long? 

Well, until 15 years, a little over 15 years. I've forgotten what it was, 1970. 1970, yeah. 

And in that time, you went from a little regional area to more of the United States, and then eventually overseas well I didn't make it overseas except part-time I mean or special projects okay thanks came I got to do a lot of things because I was one of the unique people that understood the big machines are really big machines that they sold and you know that filled up a room you could walk in the computer and all that very early days of computers so so you started learning right off the bat about the computers yeah you just thrust me right in there you know I was I was known as a technical hire. 

So by God you're going to be technical. I was going to be technical. 

But nobody knew much about it so. No they didn't you could fool a lot of people. You were on the ground floor. That's right it was fun. It was really fun. 

And what would possess you to change your mind in 1970 and go somewhere else? 

Well my wife and I we moved three times, built two houses, renovated one in a period of 18 months so she was tired of moving and I had said when I was covering Florida you know I hated the territory in Florida, can you imagine that? but at the time it was practically all sand but nevertheless and I had said that if I ever get back to Atlanta I'm not leaving and the way I figured never to leave is be my own boss and so I started this crazy business that did fairly well I eventually sold it to the National Data. 

What was the point of the company you founded in 1978? 

Well it was managing computer installations we would we would manage computer installations under contract. 

Okay so you were the middle man. Yeah rather rather you. 

The company produced the computers and the company got the customers but then they hired you to install or the customers hired you to install? 

The customers would hire you. 

So you were it didn't matter who the manufacturer was you would just have so you started this you founded this company tell me the name of it again Computer Management Inc. 

Okay and was just you to start with? 

Oh yeah it was me and two other guys that knew what to do and knew how to do it. I knew what to do but I didn't know how to do it. You knew what but not how. 

So you had to get yourself some technical support in that new house. That's right. 

So how did the company grow? 

Did it do well? 

It did well. How big did you grow it to? 

Well, I guess it was about 20-some odd million a year. Pretty big. Pretty big for that industry. 

And that was really, in the 1970s, the computers were really catching on and people were thinking, oh, this is going to be the way of the future. right so um you had an offer you couldn't refuse is that the reason you sold it and i think you sold it in 86 yeah well no it was a lot a big combination of reasons um that could have been one yeah i could have been lazy was the other nah it's hard work it's hard work but no you weren't lazy you just didn't have your fill of it you're ready to try something i know it i wanted to see see if there's something else in the world other than the back end of a control panel and then somebody made you a good offer national data yeah and they bought the whole thing right they didn't make you go to work for them for a while no no they didn't so it was cashing out and you started looking around for something else and what next caught your eye let's see is that when you went to work for general electric no that was when I went to work for American software oh yeah American software which would seem to be right up along the Oh, it was the same kind of work, except it was large mainframe software, and it was founded and run by two Georgia Tech guys, one that was a year ahead of me and one that was a year behind me. Oh, so 54, 55, and 56 got together, huh? 

That's right, yeah. And you helped put American software on the map. 

Well, I don't, I wouldn't be so bold as to say that. And I would, for God knows, I wouldn't want to put it on print. In print, because Jim Eddenfield and Tom, too, but Jim's still active in the business. Yeah. And I dearly love them both. It was a good partnership. You enjoyed being with them. Yeah, we enjoyed being together. You stayed with that for a little while. Yeah, in fact, it was hard to believe almost eight or nine years, I guess. And then I really retired, is what I intended to do. That was your whole plan. That was the whole plan. When I left, when I went out the door, walked out the door of American Software, I had retired. And GE is the one that made me an offer I couldn't refuse. And you also found out that retiring wasn't... 

Well, it took me two years to get used to it. And it also wasn't, you know, you can't play golf every day. You got to where you weren't just enjoying it that much. And so, Atlanta's not a good retirement town. There's always something going on. Everybody's always working at something as well. Yep, yep, yep. 

Well, you've got to have buddies that don't work to retire. 

So you find yourself by your lonesome, a good offer came along. That's right, a good offer came along, and I took it. 

Well, in general, I think they made you an offer once many years before that. Yeah, that's right. Give it a try, you know. Fortunately, it was a lot more money than they did at first. 

But they didn't expect you to move to Pittsburgh. No, they didn't. 

But they expected me to run a much bigger business than I thought I was going to be running. Oh. 

Jack Welch believes that you're either number one or number two in the industry you're in or you don't want to be in it. 

And I asked him one time, I thought this was funny, I asked him one time, why? 

Why did he think that? 

He says, well, if you're number one or number two, and number one catches a cold, if you're number three, you get pneumonia. 

I mean, if anybody's leading the industry gets, if the industry goes south on you, there's not a **** thing you can do about it, and you wind up getting hurt badly. 

So that's why GE's the company it is today, which is a great company. It's a huge company. 

But I just didn't want to, it went from nothing. When I went there, there was just really nothing except a little internal work. And Dan Wells had gone all over the world and made the thing $11 billion. Thank goodness you're not there now, huh? 

No, I was right. You'll appreciate this. I was driving out 400 in the morning, fortunately, against the traffic, and back in 40 miles. I looked at myself one day. I said, well, am I driving 40 miles to work every day? 

I don't need to do this. You don't even need to do it. I know. That's right. 

So I... You decided to shorten that career. Shorten that career. 

But you were with them for a little while. Oh, yeah, they were wonderful to me. They were just nice. And then you retired again. Uh-huh. 

How long did you stay retired that time? 

Well, I had started the TUF, the University Financing Foundation, back in 1980. Oh, you started it early on, but you weren't working for it. 

Or you were working on the side? 

Well, it's a little complicated, and you may not want to hear this much about it, but I'll tell you. 

TUF is really a tax-exempt organization, and we were founded to provide buildings at below market rates and research equipment to colleges and universities who were having a difficult time raising the money to buy the buildings or the research. You see, a college typically has a good revenue stream, like in doing research. 

But they can't build a building because it has no capital. Unless the legislator gives them the money. Unless the legislator gives them the money. 

Well, the Georgia legislature doesn't provide funds for research buildings, athletic facilities, or performing arts. 

So they have to be privately or something? 

They have to be privately financed. And people don't really give much money to research. They won't really give much money either to performing arts, and recently they've started doing that. Yeah, because we have a few more of them around. 

So if you were a small college or a two-year college or just someone who's not on the legislative hit parade, so to speak, and you want to add to the campus, then they would become your client? 

They would come to us and see if we would help them raise the money, and we developed A WAY TO DO THAT WITH INDUSTRIAL REVENUE DEVELOPMENT BONDS, WHOSE CREDIT WAS NON-RECOURSE. 

THAT MEANS THAT THE REVENUE THAT HAS TO PAY FOR IT OR THE LENDERS CAN'T COLLECT THEIR RENT OR WHATEVER. SO IT'S KIND OF A SAFE WAY FOR THEM TO DO IT. IN FACT, YOU CAN BUY INSURANCE THAT INSURES THE FACT THAT THEY WILL MAKE THE PAYMENTS. There were companies in New York that write insurance. 

So it's a good, it's not too risky. It's a good safe haven to... And that started in 1980, and of course, it's still very much a bustling business. Oh, yeah. You're the president and founder of it, and you came back to work there in 2002. I was on the board all that time. All that time. And there were three other directors, all of which came out of Georgia Tech. John Adderhole is one, and Tom Hall is another, and Vernon Crawford, if you remember. Oh, yes. Vernon was on our board for a long time. Oh, yes. Yeah. And so you've been able to help many, many, many that make institutions. You keep it in the state of Georgia? 

No, we do business all over the world, really. We've got a clown in England that we bought a dormitory for. Oh, how interesting. 

So it enables universities to grow their, what do you call it, their plants. It does, yeah. The plants. Yeah. 

And see, when they finance it, paying that rent over the years, the wonderful part about it is it's a non -profit. We can donate the building to them after they pay off the debt. Oh, I see. And that's what you do? 

That's right. Oh, that's a wonderful business. Oh, it is. It's a wonderful. 

So this is just to keep you entertained right now. 

Well, sometimes it gets a little more than that. 

Well, now, we know you tried retiring twice, and it didn't work, Frank. Yeah, that's right. You live with it. 

So there's your career. 

Now let's back all the way back, and let's talk a little bit about some of the activities that you've been involved with. 

After you graduated in 1955 and went to work for IBM, when did you start getting involved with Georgia Tech again, and how? 

Well, I guess I got involved with Georgia Tech when I moved back to Atlanta. 

Okay, so that was back in the early 70s? 

Back in the 70s. Yeah. And you came back and thought, hmm. 

Yeah, and I got solicited by a roll call, and I gave somebody a roll call, and I started getting mailed every day, you know. And my wife says a day without mail from Georgia Tech is not a happy day. Because we get something every day. Isn't that awful? 

Persistent they are, huh? 

Persistent. I know it, yeah. 

But it's well -intended, and I don't mind. 

But you decided that you'd get more than just giving money. You'd get involved physically. Yeah, and I got involved. Travis Brown was the guy, I guess, that got me involved with Georgia Tech. 

What was the first thing he wanted you to do? 

He wanted me to serve as a scholarship committee of the Atlanta Georgia Tech Club. Okay. 

And he knew I hired young guys out of tech, and I ought to be able to interview people that were graduating from high school. And that's a way to get your hand back in. 

So I said, sure, I'll do it. Isn't it funny how one thing led to another? 

Yeah, at least it just goes on. And I can remember the ways I got involved with Alexander Thorpe. 

Had you been going to the games when you were here anyways? 

Yeah, I had, but I hadn't really ever gotten involved with Alexander Thorpe, but I got involved with their scholarship. They got some academic scholarships. Again, to raise money for youngsters. And then eventually the Alumni Association tapped you to be a trustee. Yeah, that's right. You got to know a little bit more about what's going on. Right. Lordy, lordy, they made you president. That's right. What year was that? 

Do you remember? 

Yeah, I never will forget it. I was president in 79 and 80, I think it was. 

And I always said I did double duty because the two guys that were in front of me and back of me had others. One that got married or got remarried and one, I've forgotten what he did. 

But I was always filling in for them. It wasn't waltz in for one year and waltz out, huh? 

No, that's right. You got extra duties on that. 

But you had fun. Oh, yeah. It's a way to get to know people. And at that time, you were still interacting with Dean Dahl. 

I mean with Dean Griffin and with Bobby Dodd and that she said was how you came to be really good friends with both of them. 

I can't tell you the number of times I sat at a dental meeting and heard Coach Dodd and Dean Griffin make this little speech. Lucky you. 

Coach Dodd used to always tell Dean Griffin, he said, Dean, don't tell that story again, again and again. They teased each other about that, huh? 

They did, yeah. They sure did. Frank, besides the Alumni Association of Georgia Tech, you got involved in the community period. 

Now, would you date that back to coming back to Atlanta in the 70s? 

Is that about the time you start looking at it? 

Yeah, I would think so, yeah. 

Is it because you had your own company and you felt like giving back to the community? 

Or do you come from a background of that kind of service? 

Well, no, I don't come from the background of that kind of service. 

My father, or the one that was served in a public office, and I guess maybe it sounds kind of corny, but I've always had a love affair with Atlanta. I don't think it sounds corny at all. I think it sounds great. 

In fact, the ideal job would have been to be working for the Chamber of Commerce and maybe run for mayor or something. It doesn't pay nearly as good, though. It doesn't pay as good. 

But I got involved with education and the things that surround it, the Alumni Association being one. 

The other one that did change my life in some degree was I got involved with the Chamber of Commerce, the Atlanta Chamber of Commerce as chairman of the Education Task Force. Oh, great. 

And I happened to be in that job when Atlanta was going through all the trauma of school busing and faculty transfers and all that sort of stuff. 

And the person who I had talked to run for the school board, I had talked him into running, Tom Beebe, who was the president of Delta Alliance, he got promoted to, he was not president at the time he got elected, but he was promoted to president, and that meant he had to give up the job on the Atlanta school board. And I was elected to take his place. 

So you served time. I served time. I often kid a lot of people about saying I was one of 24 candidates, and I lost. Tell me, what years were those? 71, 2, and 3. And you were up to your ears in alligators, huh? 

Oh, boy. I'm telling you. 

I mean, it's a job where you can make a difference, but it's also like putting a target on your backside, isn't it? 

That's right, yeah. Everybody's ready to take pot shots at you. It's a no -win proposition. It's a no-win proposition. And, you know, everybody knows how to run a school because they've been to one. Yes, of course. You've been there, done that. I know it, yeah. And you get all that. And you find out that that's not how it works at all. Having gone doesn't help. It only works if there are nine people on the school board. You get five other votes. That's the only time it works, huh? 

That's the only time it works. 

So that was your touch with politics there. Uh-huh. I had a lot of encouragement to continue it, But I said, I've had enough. A few years did it, huh? 

That's right. And then you also got involved with the Y. Yeah, I got involved with the Y. 

How did that come about? 

Had you ever been to Y's when you were a kid? 

I worked in a Y fundraising campaign. 

I had been to the Y as a kid, but the way I got involved with it was fundraising with a fellow by the name of Joe Bransby, who was the executive director of the Metropolitan YMCA. Joe and I hit it off. We were fast friends. so I got involved with it before you know what I wound up on the board and I was went from the board to you know you go through the chairs you get on the board and then you go through the treasuries and then you do this it's a way it takes such long-term volunteer oh I know this one anybody ever does it especially pull up the Alumni Association you know they just dream like that this year they just changed the system this year they changed the bylaws so it doesn't take man it could take forever nine years Yeah, no, they streamline that, so that one's got a little more efficient. 

But really, a lot of organizations do require you to go through stages, you know. By the time you get up to be president of it, you know everything there is to know about. 

So that's the good side of it. On the other side, you're giving up a decade of your life to a cause. 

But the why, again, must be very satisfying because it helps a lot of people. 

And you cover, you learn, you know a lot, you get to learn, you get to know a lot of people over a wide range of Atlanta. You're not just confined to the downtown wide city or your neighborhood. You can do that because each one of those neighborhood-wise has their own board. 

But ultimately, the buck stops downtown at the Metropolitan Wide. 

But it's fun to do it, really. You know, the kids are, you see kids playing soccer, you see 20,000 kids playing soccer. You have to get a good feeling about that. Yeah, yeah, you do. 

What other things have you gotten yourself involved in? 

I've always been involved very much so in my church. And what church is that? 

The Lutheran Church of the Redeemer. And a lot of tech guys go there. It's on Peace Street and Fourth. 

That's been another place to pay your dues, huh? 

Yeah, and my wife grew up in that church, and she's been active in it, and I fell in love with it when I was at Tech. Did y'all get married there? 

You got married there. 

Well, that's home church then. That's right, sure is, yeah. And so those are good feelings, too. Right, very good feelings. um if you were giving advice to young people today you know when they first get out of school of course the big hustle is to get a job and get a car and get a house and get all these things but then give back right you've certainly been a prime example of well it's fun and and it seems like the more you do the more you gain from it isn't that interesting you're given but you're getting i've never left any of those things and said it's just taking too much time. I just didn't do that. 

And besides meeting a lot of interesting people, you really do get a good reward out of having made the college. Yeah, sure. It makes you smarter. I think it's a learning experience. 

Isn't it funny how you can learn from almost everything? 

You know, it's often easier to deal with people that work for you. 

I used to tell my boss, I said, you know, I was surprised how much better I could tell a joke after I got promoted to management than I could before. 

He says, what do you mean? 

I said, I tell the lousiest joke in the world, but people just fall in the floor laughing. Just like you did, huh? 

Man, that's kidding me a **** bit. Because you've been there and done that, too. That's right, yeah. 

Isn't that interesting? 

It depends what side of the table you sit on, how clever you are, huh? 

Sure, that's exactly right. 

So you picked up on that quickly. I want to go back just a minute to Dean Griffin. because you did have the opportunity to know him pretty well. He was still very vital at that time. 

I met him in the late 80s, early, not just before he passed away, and by that time he was not really vital. He had a funny little laugh because we have some recordings of him. I know it, yeah. He had this funny little laugh. He didn't even have to say anything, did he, to make people appreciate him and laugh at his jokes. Just him being there was good enough, wasn't it? 

That's right, yeah. 

He was the case of not a great storyteller, really, Because he always laughed before he got to the punchline. I was going to say, he couldn't tell the story because he was laughing. And yet everybody thought he was so funny listening to him laugh that they just couldn't get over it. I know. There, I think, I don't know how many of y'all, but so many people can do perfect imitations of him. 

I can't do it, but I'll tell you this about one of the most unique experiences I have ever had involved him. And we, the Alumni Association has these trips, you know, the vacation trips, the travel program. Right, yeah, the travel program. We went on one to New Zealand and Australia one time, my wife and I. 

And we decided that the Alumni Association had been a National Alumni Association as long as it should be. It ought to be the International Alumni Association. 

So we got the names and addresses of all the Georgia Tech alumni that lived in New Zealand and Australia. Really? 

And you'd be surprised how many of that were. 

And at the time, Phillip Austin was ambassador to Australia from the United States, a former lawyer who was here. He's not a tech man, but he's had tech in his own years and a good friend. 

And we decided we would get in touch with these alumni that had moved to New Zealand and Australia for various and central reasons. And one thing I found out, it wasn't necessarily work that made a move to Australia and New Zealand. It was retirement. Oh. Money was worth so much more in New Zealand and the cost of living so much lower. 

So it was a good place to go then. It was a good place to go. 

But I called, I don't know how many, to tell them that we were in town and invited them to a cocktail party in Sydney, Australia, from New Zealand, which is like 3,000 miles, but it's not 9,000 miles. Did anybody come? 

Yeah, they did. We had a swarming there. We had more people than you could think about. 

And from Australia, of course, right there, but also we had a few from, let's say, from North New Zealand. And one way from up in the upper tip of South Australia. 

But I've lost the train of my thought. Oh, we were talking about George Griffin. You said it was a funny thing that happened. Did he go? 

He didn't go, but everybody that I called wanted to know how Dean Griffin was. There you go. He was the one person that anybody asked about. I don't remember anybody asking about anybody else. They didn't ask about it. He was kind of like the glue that just still is. Yeah, he really was, still is. I don't know how we were doing without him today. I found the same thing when I go and do club presentations. If it's an older crowd, that's all anybody wants to talk about is Dean Griffin. And the interesting thing is nobody has the same story. I know. There may be some similarities, but, you know, a lot of different stories about him. I've got to tell you one that you will appreciate because you were talking about his laugh. His laugh and all that. 

Well, he used to call me at work, and I would answer the phone. 

Well, my secretary would answer the phone. She said, there's somebody on the phone asking for you. I think it's Dean Griffin, but he can't hear me. 

Oh, he got hard of hearing? 

He couldn't, and I'd pick up the phone and I'd say hello, and I might have to say it two or three times before I got it, but I could hear him breathing on the phone. You knew he was there. 

So he was right in the mouthpiece and he had it to his head. 

But he just couldn't hear good. He just couldn't get it. 

Well, he practically lived on the telephone. I mean, he was calling somebody all the time, mostly asking for money, but, you know, for the boys. Yeah, well, he was asking a lot of times. 

The reason he would call me often was I knew a lot of people, at least he thought I knew a lot of people, and he thought I was a good source of references for work. Oh, yeah, looking for jobs. 

I've still got the letter that he wrote me one time about how much he appreciated me doing what I did. Oh, isn't that nice. Yeah. How sad it was that a man could be in his 40s and lose his job. 

So he was looking for older alums, not just for the kids. Yeah, you had to be, I'd say the youngest one I ever talked to was probably about 40. Really? 

Well, see, he did start, you know, the career placement service for that very reason. I thought he did. Yeah, he's the one who started that, he started that program in 1923. Good grief. 

So way back when, you know, and was really keen on always keeping people employed. 

And some of the funny stories he's told me are people that he got jobs for that didn't even want jobs. Like the guys that came home from the military, you know, He was trying to line them all up. He said, I don't want to work right now. I just want to take it easy. 

Now I've got your job here, you know. It was a funny, funny story. He must have been very persuasive. 

Well, he was. And totally charming. What do you want, boy? 

Yeah, what do you want, boy? 

It was one of his favorite lines, yeah. Tell me now about your family. We know you married Kathy in 1954. Yeah. And you have children. I have children. 

My oldest child is John Frank Smith III, And he's married and has three children, two girls and a boy. And the boy is John Frank Smith, the fourth. The fourth, yeah. And the girls are whom? 

The girls are, oh, gosh. Just take your time. Louise. Louise. Louise is the oldest girl, and Sarah Charles is the younger. Okay. 

Now, did John go to college, go to school? 

What's his trade? 

He went to Southern Tech. Okay. He went to Tech for a while. He went to Tech for two years. And you get a kick out of this. He came to me one day and says, I want to change schools. Because he knew I'd be concerned about it. And I said, Webb, you want to go as far as me as long as you go. And he says, well, I want to go to Southern Tech and take civil engineering. 

And I said, what do you want to do that for? 

He says, well, I'm tireless of doing no **** accounting problems. And I don't like the workbook, and I don't want to get into something that has all that. 

I said, you're telling me you want to go to civil engineering to do all those labs, all those drawing labs? 

Think about this again. Think about that. 

Well, he was a very poor student at Tech. Oh, you know how hard it was. You had already been there. You knew that. Yeah, and I never raised my voice to somebody being hard. Yeah. And he made the dean's list at Southern Tech. And did he go civil engineering? 

Yeah. He did? 

Yeah, he sure did. And that's what he's doing today. He's a civil engineer? 

Yeah. Oh, that's great. That's great. I forgot what they actually call a degree. I think they call it civil engineering. They used to call it something else. And tell me about the others, your other son. 

The other one is a, he's married and has two children. His name? 

Is Scott Smith and he has a son named Tyler and a daughter named Savannah. 

So you have three granddaughters and two grandfathers. And two grandsons. Aren't you lucky? 

Two wonderful daughters. You know, in-laws. Daughter-in-laws. Yeah. In fact, let's give them names. Jeff is married to KK, who is with the bank here in Atlanta. And Scott is married? 

And Scott is married to Joni, who teaches school in Cherokee County. 

So they're close around. They're close, yeah. You get to see them. You get to see your grandchildren. 

If you consider 25 or 30 miles close, it's close. 

Well, you can see them if you have to. Yeah, that's right. And you didn't tell us what Scott did for a living. Where did he go to school? 

He teaches flying. He teaches flying. Yeah, he has a pilot's license and has an instructor's license. 

So he just qualified for it this last year. 

So that's his current occupation. That's his current occupation. Did he go to tech? 

No, he didn't. 

But he worked for IBM for a long time, too. Oh, did he? 

He worked for IBM, I think, about nine years. Okay. 

So now he's doing what he wants to do. Yeah, that's right. He's flying, huh? 

Yeah, that's right. Out of Peachtree DeKalb? 

Yeah, Peachtree DeKalb. He flies out of, I think he gets his plane and equipment out of Epps. Oh, sure. Another tech alum. Yeah, that's right. He is. 

So you're pretty fortunate to have your family right close by. Oh, yeah. And especially since you've had health problems the last couple years. 

Well, they've been a big help, too. 

As you said, you don't know what happened, but everything just started falling apart, huh? 

That's right. It didn't cooperate like it should, but it's gotten better now. Which is really wonderful to hear, Frank. We're delighted to see that you're managing. 

And you say your goal is to get that hip working the way it's supposed to and keep on keeping on, right? 

Exactly. 

Well, it's a good story. It's a good story. You overcame a lot of odds to get where you were and where you are. I will tell you, I think anybody who came to school here did. It wasn't a piece of cake for anybody. There were a few guys. 

Well, it's been a great while. We come across somebody who says, oh, I never had a bit of trouble. I never studied. I never did. 

Well, there were a few guys that went to some of the top private schools that did quite well. I always remember the Baylor guys used to do really, really good. 

Well, I think if they had the opportunity to be in a private school that was military-based, like the GMC and Darlington and some of those places where they really, it was discipline that they got. Yeah, that's right. And, I mean, they learned how to study because they had the discipline. It does make a difference. Oh, absolutely, yeah. Yeah, you know, you didn't know how to soak it in unless somebody trained you. 

I think any of the Georgia boys who went to the public school systems throughout the whole state were at a great disadvantage. Boys high folks didn't have a lot of trouble because they did quite well. 

But everybody else, in fact, most of the South Georgia schools didn't even have 12 years. Oh, I know it, yeah. 

So these kids were coming up at 16 and 17. Lord, we were murdering them. Right. You know, because it was really up to you. I know. It was like being thrown in the pond. Yeah, yeah. It's up to you if you're going to survive or not. And a lot of people, you know, got dusted out. Of course, it's not the way we do it now, but that was the way we did it then. 

Well, thank you for taking the time and coming and sharing your story with us. My pleasure. It's a pleasure for us to have it. Thank you, Frank Smith. Thank you.