This is a living history interview with Harold P. 

Bowen, a member of the rebel forum one, and the class of 1956 conducted by Marilyn summers on May the 17th, a year 2005. We are at the Georgia Tech Library on the Georgia Tech campus in Atlanta, Georgia. 

And the subject of our interview today is his life in general, his experiences with the rebel forum and also at Georgia Tech. Mr. Bowen, Thank you so much for joining us here today. We're finally got you over here so we can have this little chat. And I want to know first there where you were born and where. Let's start the story at the beginning. First of all, I want to thank you for having me here. And I was born in America's Georgia in 1934. And where you were born in America. 

Now, where were your parents born, if that home place for that? 

No. 

My parents my father was born in a little town called Claremont, Georgia and my mother was Bowen in new decay, the Alabama. 

Now how did they happen to be in America? 

Some 1934. Math, father's family moved him, as well as all of his brothers and sisters to plains, Georgia. Quite close to me, write very close to amorphous. And is that where he grew up then? 

A grew up in planes from the time he was 13 years though. 

My mother father had died very early in her life, and her mother was living with some of her kin folks in America's Georgia. 

And so my mother was obviously moved to America and that's where my mother and dad met or they youngsters. My mother was 17 and then I add was 23. Oh, she married an older may write better than no automated, exactly. A wonderful story. 

So there was just kind of the fickle finger fate? 

That's correct. Law. They come out to meet each other, yes. And they married in America. And we use the firstborn, one of many rows, I say family. I was actually the third Bowen had two daughters, proud of my being born. One of whom still born in the ELA dad lesson six months after she was born. 

So they had tragedy, right? 

So the long cane, you came along the print. 

Well, four years later, my brother came along. 

But you were the first to survive and they must have really been thrilled to death to have you. 

What did your father do for a living? 

My father was a farmer and he was the John Deere dealer for that part of South Georgia, America, in the surrounding area. 

Now 1934 was tough time, very tough. Yeah. That was really where depression was starting to really hit everybody so very hard. And he started his business in 1933. Oh my them. 

But he survived the depression and he must have been assured businessman and he was a big businessman. Anybody continue to farm at the same he continued the farm. 

So did you grow up on that farm? 

Did not. I grew up in America is but I spent a lot of time on the farm. 

Well, so daddy had a town place and in a country place that while they didn't speak loudly, he had people that lived on the farm. I mean, there was a house on the farm, so somebody was doing the work. I hit Earth and basically a farm manager. Uh-huh. 

But they like to go there a lot. 

I went they allowed it in plus affect my grandfather owned the farm adjoining my father and my grandfather had a very large house on the on his farm in ASP and a lot of time in my early years. 

So you know your grant, you knew your grandfather fairly wealth and I did quite a privilege to get to know your grandfather very much. You can do well, actually see that nice. Yeah. He has a memory somehow. I have very good memories of him. Yes. He he passed away when I was 22, 23. Okay. 

So you got to know for your whole childhood then he wears a constant in your trial, right? 

And so so you have the advantage of being in a small town and still having the farm experience too? 

Yeah. 

Now, if you visited your grandfather and the farm, Did you get you have to do chores or get to do chores or were you at the privileged childhood? 

Just know I had that. 

There was no free that was your privileged EHR as I remember very well that the A bout 940 during World War Two had just started, fairly recently started. My grandmother had a garden and she raised, among other things, mostly lettuce. And they would bring to me in town and I would go door to door selling lettuce Nikolay. 

So you got to paddle paddle that allowed us to end some of her other products that came out. 

Or it's very interesting that, you know, you were given I was joking with saying a privileged, but really you were learning a lot, doing about interacting with people and finding things had value to woman. 

Now that you could work? 

Yes. It may have been uncomfortable. It may have retiree. It may be at high level. Was them comfortable empowering know, it was hot, but not uncomfortable at all. 

So you'll learned a good some good life lessons that I think I did. And then as I got older, I worked for my dad on the farm and enduring again during World War Two. 

We grew okra in beams that I helped harvest the okra and the veins and so were they sold commercially and they were sold on commercial real operation, a farmer operation and not just for people to eat? 

No. Larry No. That's that's big business. That was aggregated. Yeah. 

So but in town, you lived, right in town? 

We lived yes. With the right in town. That was America is the kind of town where everybody knew everybody. Everybody knew everybody at that time. That has since changed. Its grown some but not a lot. 

But still it's different. It's different? 

Yes. 

When everybody knew everybody that mean you couldn't get away with anything, somebody will be reporting it exactly right. You said you had a lot of people looking after you write. Your little brother came along and they looked after him Ts. 

And isn't it it was kind of really wonderful and nobody really appreciated at the time that that was going to go away as a way of life and can't be like that more. 

Now, that's a very interesting time of, I guess, how old were you when you started school? 

I was seven years, so I just turned seven because at that particular point in time, there was some rule that if your birthday was after December 31st, you had to weigh the next hole exits. My birthday was January 7. I had to way that layer. Yeah. Which turn that real good. I have may be, at least for that age, a little more mature. Do you remember his school? 

He went to the furlough, grandma skew for five years. 

Now remember theory. 

Well, the principal of that school was a lady by the name of say we're Cobb. Good for you for remembering them. I remember some of my early teachers from there. They really did. They made a big, big impression on me because they were really teachers. They might acquire additional. That was their whole life I had to teach. I can remember more than one getting my hand paddles with a ruler. And you didn't die from it or no, I did not. Did you deserve it? 

I did. In that. Remember very little about math teachers. 

In what we call junior ask you, is that America's junior ask you and that would start with the sixth grade, proud of sixth grade 678, maybe 99 to know. I beg your pardon. 67878. Right. And then I believe in those days, high-school was 9, 10, 11. 

Well, I was the first class that went 12-year. Oh, yeah. Got it. 

And your timing was great, right? 

Because most of the people that we've interviewed from that area were shortchanged. They didn't get that, why they have the expertise came along just in time to get in. 

And what a good thing it was two, it lies in that remembers very specifically the teacher that I had for a general science, biology, chemistry, and physics was a man by the name of Mr. book. He made a big, big impression on me. 

And he said far as teachers go, he was certainly, I think that the teacher that I most remember after grandma skew some of the ladies and grandma school, I remember very well and they made a big impression. 

But this man just gave me a lot of ad is caused me to think a lot. He he knew who you were as a person and he cared? 

Yeah. And that's the exon mark for a teacher. Yes. You weren't just somebody go into the eye. 

Are you a good student in school? 

Did you like going to school when it started out like an elementary school did manage to graduate from Haskell you what they saw over 90 degree overall, I mean, a 90 percent. 90 percent. 

And say you're one of the top students in hours, hours, you to tell studies, studying seriously at the end you enjoyed it and now you sort of came naturally for me. 

Did your parents race you to believe you'd be going to college someday? 

Was that on their mind? 

That was on their mind from from the get A1 ethane. And I wondered, yeah. And so you knew you better take it says right. 

If you've got recommended at school and your mom or dad found out about it, what they have been upset with you? 

They would have, yes. In that they met my mother during that year that I was held out. She taught me all the multiplication tables, really alphabet. I mean, you only seven years old. These are 112. All multiplication tables and labelling and letters. 

So you were homeschooled. You might as well say, I watch for that year. 

And she had you well, did you take part in any athletic activities and your schooling that we went to go out for track? 

I know I played football in my two years of high school, but I was never good at it. 

But it was such a part of the small town. It allows just out of it. 

So you went out because that's why I write expected they do sram cell and not a bad experience. Oh, it was a great experience. You'll learn about teen about coaching like that. And very often, although that didn't, I, I've talked to never turn out to be great athletes. 

They learn things from their coaches just, just from the experience of being sang, no, taking direction and things like that. 

Sorry, the both of the coaches that I had in Haskell to lay the became coaches, Georgia Tech realize Coach Jim luck and coach John Bell. Both of them well known. What are the odds are that I had I went there, they came from America as well. Very interesting. Gem luck was originally from a mare because he'd been born there. In that John Bell was from somewhere where antenna see how meat That's really it was good. 

Now, how did Georgia Tech come into your life? 

Why did you go to Georgia Tech? 

Mr. bologna, and influence to that? 

No, he was not. I don't think. 

But other than preparing well in math and I will go back just for a moment. Sure. My dad no mother ever went to college? 

My mother graduated from high school. My father only went through the ninth grade. 

It was very, very common and rise, but he educated a hepta educate six of his siblings, 33 sisters and three brothers. 

He helped pay for them to grad school, to go to school, and he he stayed behind and worked in one of them went to Georgia Tech, 1, one, which went to Georgia Tech, one of the brothers went to Harvard. And I can't remember who the other one went in. 

So they had prestige aesthetic Russians in 1 tenth of us. I think two of his sisters, the Bessie tiff college than in Forsyth, Georgia. There was a tough call. It yeah. How interesting. 

So he valued education equally. 

Lda himself could not write a so we, having an uncle that went to Georgia Tech, had a big influence on me. And he was a Bowen because it was your father? 

Yes, he was. 

What was his first name? 

Tell foot to ELF ORD because we have several bones that were prominent on football. Things that George he was like a lot of them, Yeah. Oh, it's fairly common that right. He I'm trying to think. 

He finished before World War Two because he, he was Wahhabi in the third, he was the service in served in the army and after keq, right. Four to o before tack, right. He was already out of school. I mean, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. He went after tech. I'm sorry. He went to school then when in reality. And when did you know him? 

I didn't know. And so she was he could have been an influence on the ashes knowledge a little bit. It has a big influence on me in a lot of ways. 

I'm EU's a hard worker and after the war he came back to America since started, they accompany in the or distribution BIT all in gas distribution business in which fear successful part of the great generation we call, Yeah. Yeah. Okay. 

So you you're going into your senior year of high school as the first member community. If the first class of people that we're going to take the 12th year of high school. 

So you had to be thinking about going to college? 

Yes, I was. Again, it was tech. Your only choice, your first toy now and have many know, I was accepted at Alban, an accepted tag. 

And as it turned out, six people from my graduating class in Haskell, you went to Auburn in six service, came to Tech. And it was a little of a decision, not a big decision frankly though, to come to Tech. I wanted to go to Tech. 

I had wanted to for a long time and I reckon in the long run, I don't know why I applied to open, but I did. Maybe I just pray that wouldn't get that type AB. Kind of orientation to tech habit in those days, was it considered a hard school debate was. 

So you knew you had to work cut out for like skin so that they're hard. 

And you would have come to Tech in 1952, which was the absolute epitome of football athletics that exactly Did everybody in America. 

So who? 

Bobby Dodd and the Rambling Wreck and all that. They knew every bit of that. I think pretty much the self. Yeah, I'm enamored with coach. Yeah. He was someone that young men looked up to and he built himself some remarkable teams. 

So it had to be an exciting time to come. Very exciting. Had you ever been to Atlanta or to tech before you came? 

I had been to Lana. Not a lot, but while a fair amount on. Okay. 

Now, how would you get to Atlanta? 

Would you come by train? 

Did combat training some but mostly back car a car a good little piece. That's a good little ride. Yeah. Back then it was Al two lane roads had to take half again as long as it does today. It took a long time. 

So you your year tuition was more reasonable if you came to Georgia Tech because it was an NDA, it was in state. I'm sure your father was happy with you for that damage head was. 

But anyway, mad that it put money aside for me to go to college back in the very early 40s. It was a Y in this ifdef finish deck. 

I was able to give him back over half of that movie, that guy that did your brother go to college? 

He went to Georgia Tech, did he? 

Yes. And their father again supported that? 

He did. 

So he had to take them. What what's your mother's first name? 

The Randolph. Randolph. Randolph 0. 

And so when you came up to tack what you must have written off a letter, I think that was the way you applied by mail, probably in the 1950s. 

Feel sure, and they get a transcript of your credits to see whether they think you're gonna make it or not. Yeah. 

And you get the acceptance letter and you came up, that was probably the first time you were actually on the campus then was when? 

I would say that's correct. 

So you were a stranger came out, was, you know, them from the deep south? 

Yeah. Come on up to the big city. Do you remember the first day when you first got here, what it was like? 

No, I don't. You were assigned to a dormitory? 

I was assigned the how or dormitory. 

And were you assigned a roommate or did one of your classmates come on? 

One of my classmates came with me from America's fellow by the name of George Harris, who got very active in the SKU politics. And he was on the student council lot thickness, what they call it. Then. He was president of the senior class. Also, he's stuck in that. He's stuck in there. 

There's a lot of people tell me, Well, I came up and I had a roommate for three months because of course there was still the days of look to your left, look to your right, you know, while he and that will roommates for the first year and then after that year, I had another room. 

And then subsequently I had what? 

I had the same roommate for the last two years that I've lived in the fraternity house. 

When did you got for the attorney, whether it's your first year first year as president, we rushed is record the call yep. And pledged that time. 

Had you been away from home for any extended periods of time prior that? 

I had then I couldn't tell you. I went to Athens, whack him in the last two or three years. I went there for two months and the someone who's always a good, long time. Yeah. 

So you were used to being away from your parents. 

Now, your parents weren't used to have a newbie away though. I'm imagine your momma thought she was similar to the big city she wants to ship? 

Probably. Yeah. Probably had some paintings about what she was doing. 

Something you off with all of your clothes and stuff to go off to the big city and the wicked ways of the base. Because that was a lot bigger than America just a little bit, no matter how you looked at it. 

So did you quickly settle into student life? 

I did. Go to football games. Football games. Had a good time. 

Well, that that 52, 53 football team was an amazing football when we called it the perfect. Yeah. And so you went to every game that anymore Rat Hat, red Hat that I still have to this day. Good for you. Wonderful piece of memory. Oh, yeah, isn't it? 

It is. 

And how about dates? 

Did you find dates to go to these games with? 

Why did I met some Atlanta Girls through a turn through the fraternity and then met an Agnes Scott girl and David her. 

So there was no shortage of social light out was there for the PECC? 

No. 

But now you are pretty good student. You had graduated at the top of your class. 

So a lot of people came in and were overwhelmed by the academics that they threaten you in any way or whatever you up for all of them. 

Well, I think our sub form, but on the other hand, I started off as a mechanical engineering. 

So your first goal that lasted, I think a court or maybe two quarters, then that changed civil engineering. That lasted for no, just one coordinate. Then for my second year I changed industrial management. 

But the thing that caused all of that was calculus. 

And I don't think I'd ever heard the word calculus until I got the Georgia Tech if I had it one ear and out the other, it was for sure they weren't teaching in an issue then americanus and nothing that resembled yeah. And so I did Yeah, it did me in life lesson was learned. Everything you will pretty much on top of until you met calculus or I guess then that agent, yes. 

So you changed your major idea. 

Now, the first year when you got rushed for the attorney, that had to be a whole new experience for you, wasn't it was definitely pretty exciting. Yeah. It was. 

Now they had a lot of goofy stuff that went on in those days. A lot of goofy stuff. You're right. 

But not dangerous. No, just Anthony, this fun. I never cease to be amazed at the ingenuity. 

The upperclassmen when they're visiting their their whatever you call it, net indoctrination time or your trial a time? 

Yes. 

What did you have to do? 

What do you remember any foolishness at all that you could share with an all too awful, the share, I would say is one that awful but nobody hurts, you know, nobody hurt you. 

But they did try to humiliate you. Exactly. 

So did you have to dress up silly or do something? 

We did a little bit of dressing up silly, but it was mostly doing silly, dumb things in my judgment. Certainly Nao. 

But I suppose the time they were funny. I mean, in certainly not injurious in any way. You're not going to tell me or your ads that are out here. 

Well, you're not going to tell me just even one story. I can tell you one story that they sit down and I cannot remember who went with me. 

Who went with me at the grant part to the zoo to get some elephant dropping, all of that within an ice cream cone. 

Then get on the city bus near Grant Park in red, the city bus back to I think it was fifth Street in depart the city bus. And you're not telling me the elephant dung within the ice cream cone height-wise. Have to put it into the ice cream on my router with it. Oh, my word. 

I just imagine the lux, you got lucky on that but I didn't really I don't remember them lab but I'm sure that you felt you had to do that because that's what you were and that's what we were told that the other thing we were sent to do was much easier task we will send out to get, I will say 24 different brands of beer, empty balanced, not full bottles at the BMT balance. And just all sorts. And back then, it was hard the fan 24 different brands of beer. A world wasn't footnote jury. No. They didn't do light beers back then either. 

So that was a challenge that was a challenge in alleyways and we want to trash cans. 

And I remember very well go to some place that was a drive in restaurant know, ponce de Leon that's out there that had served beer, was scrounging through the trash bins. Try and defend 24 different battled severe Florida. It's hard to keep track of that. And then all you had to do was take it back and prove that S right. And they didn't keep them no thermal window that it was supposed to make a man out of you. I suppose that's the goal. Make sure you are rights are the rights deaths. And now it's funny. It was hot perfectly. It was funny. Not too long after that. That was not funny at the time here. Because they've got the word whole word. Yeah, but it's all part of the light out here. Did your fraternity take part in the Rambling Wreck parade that first year? 

Yes, they did. 

They took part in it for all four years while I was there and they built direc, an athlete one year we won the prize, if I remember correctly, and decorate the house to do they put loves out in front and do things like that. You don't work. 

I don't I don't think that was it was so much a part of a getting to know and making friends with a lot of people to do those kinds of activities was it was now the attorneys by that time, he had pretty strict codes about keep in grades up to yes. 

So you were under pressure to measure your grade could not get initiated if you're Gpa was the lesson. I want to say less than two. 

It may have been to point to something, but it was in the neighborhood of two that they were asked you all the time to keep? 

Yes. 

It was bullishness, but it was also had a serious but it did have a lot of seriousness to do you remember any teacher from that period of time and all those four years that anybody mentor you or make you feel like you were somebody? 

Several did, but I can't remember their names but I did. 

But you did have the feeling that somebody hired? 

I had a good physics teacher, very good physics teacher in chemistry teacher. And those were tough courses. They were tough, they will call duster core size. 

They tried to get rid of people within this course as well, but you stayed, you were okay with that? 

Well, it turns out that Mr. Bullock, who hadn't asked you, he basically was teaching college courses. Boy, god bless myself. I like to save the day. 

Yes, those who did not go to America but went to others small school, you are not getting taught that they, they wouldn't have his fortune. They were the ones that didn't make them. They'd never heard of. A big percentage of the kids started off with me, did not make it through the first year. The six that came out of the whole class. 

Now of the whole class, and I want to say 78, maybe 900 in that class. And it got whittled that gap little band. Pretty good. Yeah. 

Well, it was the way the school operated in those days. 

They took everybody and dusted amount that changed, of course over time to where we didn't take on the left they were able to make out. 

But the other interesting thing about your class the year you came in was that women came the first time. 

Now, you are probably unaware of all the flap about that because you were down in South Georgia not being aware that they were struggling to get women in. This was going to be the big gear. Was a little aware of it. 

So you knew there were there'll be a few feet EOS around? 

Yeah. 

And actually the first year view was exactly the word to is that all I will tell you a few other people than that? 

No. Diane and Elizabeth were the only two that I work here in 50 to that started okay. And then 53 there were a few more, but never got to be any numbers. Yeah. 

Signifigant arise when you were here as you in fact, the first graduating class of in 56 only had two women. Yeah. And Elizabeth was not one of them, but surely new born. She had transferred instantly home and said Come in and 53. And so she was one of the two and Michelle was the one who started. 

So here you are pretty much an all boys school. 

You didn't see me because these women are now and they weren't a part of your social life because the attorney was bringing women in from even high schools in the area you're in, like you said. You got that. 

So they really didn't bother you much, did they? 

Not Adele, but the gland or you just fast and fast and fast about them company because I thought it was going to make everything so awful. And you were there to prove that it didn't bother you at all. If anything, it might have made you dress that just a tad better? 

Probably not, but possibly, yeah. 

Cuz they say that if you had been here when there were no women around at all, the boys would go into some pretty disreputable out. Phaedra actually want it hollow. Yeah. Do you remember a gentleman by the name of Freddie LeDoux did very well. Did you take You had to take a swimming for me I'm in now remember him extremely well. He was rather eccentric. 

Well, it may have been, but he was a wonderful the person that is well, it's a great swimming coach. Absolutely. I mean, he he may have put you to the limit, but it was good. 

It was teaching, right? 

So you survived drought, profane, crying so bad in just thankful to be here today that I did, but it really was not all that bad. 

I mean, what the concept was more scary than the reality, I guess I remember the long underwater swims that you had to do in order to pass in there. 

But it was it was good training. I would say probably really. 

So everybody I've talked to who's taken it, you learned confident. I mean, if you could pass that, makes you full of confidence. Because the reputation alone was enough to scare anybody off at the top. Here. He'd been doing that for a long time, working 15 years yeah. Or you came? 

Yes. 

So the reputation was there and I think if you survived it without going pieces over it, you could feel pretty good about yourself? 

Yes. Some people actually wouldn't take it till her senior year because they can't put it off and off. And some people actually didn't graduate because they couldn't because of that. 

Unbelievable Is there S and D? 

Now, I understand prior to the women coming, they were all drown proofing courses were. The nude. He didn't wear suits. By the time you came, did you wear suit? 

Yes. 

It got to be a worry something for the coach because women were on the camp yellow, but up to prior to the women coming, he didn't let anybody wear. 

So really I never heard that. You never heard that. 

So you were here after after that? 

Yes. We are. Yeah. And it was a part of part of the deal here. 

Well, it was okay. This once you transfer to management the IM classes, you didn't have stayed calculus. 

We still did have a form of cactus, but you've already been through all the calculus you could manage by then anyway, as you said, well, at past all of the freshmen math courses. 

But calculus was looming my sophomore year. And you didn't why? 

And I didn't want to do that. 

I didn't think I could do it to impress the fact that Mechanical Engineering just was not what I thought it was coming up from America. 

I thought it was, you know, working on things mechanical but his was doing mechanical things drawing? 

Yeah. Yeah. That's different than what you anticipate Zach, Did you ever had to take mechanical drawing? 

I did. That was a tough call. I was a tough course. Very tough. You managed. Managed. 

But once you got into the management, do grow to like the classes you were being taught, you felt like you were getting very instructive things like, Wow. Yes. 

Did you participate in any of the campus activities? 

Have you join a management job in the Management Club? 

And I was in the Toastmasters Club, which is what I'd like to talk about right now, that was open to any student. That was open to any student. 

And tell me what what did you do? 

We would get together and literally, as I recall, they would give us topics. A Select tap, talk ONE in you would stand that before the group in. You have to have a prepared speech that this top from the CD pants. 

And so you begin to feel that these talking in front of a group, and that was the whole idea that you'd be a better speaker? 

Exactly. And did they give you critique as to how you would do it? 

I think they did. In this I think you told me was held at the old while the YMCA and it was an after hours course. It was happened during a school day. It happened in the early evenings. 

Was it helpful to you? 

It was helpful because I was very afraid, if you will, about stay laid up in front of a group of people trying TO I mean, I just had a phobia about I did in so an ease the eddies that yes, because there were presentations do and management classes, so that would make that easier. You didn't know that eventually you are going to go into some kind of sales either. You had no idea what your career is going to be, things like that helpful as a Life Counsel? 

Yes. Sphere help make you a little braver, maybe. 

Just now, I'm sure just gave you write, gave you that the confidence that you needed a little kick in the pants, that you needed to be able to stand up and make a presentation. 

Is it supervised by any faculty person or staff person? 

Is our recall it was supervised by a faculty person in that state. They will from the English department, which makes sense, right leg rocker that you are doing. Do you remember ever encountering George Christian? 

Well, I do, yes. And he was a wonderful person. Dean Griffin was just magnificent. Everyone. Yeah. 

Just makes people smile to say, I know, doesn't pay up, you know, and my uncle, he hot he knew him boy, I knew you that did. Which was nice in them. You didn't have to meet him under any doubt or so on. Oh, good circumstances that, you know, even the kids that got in trouble speak so highly of? 

Yes. I'm sure they would. Even the ones that got and try this, he was just a wonderful, wonderful person. And it's always good if you are short of money, always kind to everybody. What a character. We've heard a lot of Dean Griffin stories. He's got a warm place in your heart. They'll pay this. 

When you think about it, you all were here at just, I mean, you had Bobby Dodd to look up to you had Dean Griffin, fan layer is the president, but he was a very upright, dignified gentleman that was very fond of the youngsters. 

Very disciplined, Getty within all softy, which you probably didn't know, but well, his son say me, was in he was in math class, the class of 52, if I remember correctly. It was Yeah. He was real nice. 

I don't remember the occasion what he had daughter he had a daughter that wanted to go to Georgia Tech and he had worked very hard. Van layer did to open this to women because of that. She ultimately, she took some classes here, but she ultimately graduated from Vanderbilt. 

But that was the one of the reasons he was soft. Open towards women come did you ever come to the library? 

I did. Do remember Dorothy crossline? 

I do remember her. I sure do. Another terrific know she was she person for you to wonderful person. 

I don't know that there was ever any other time and texts history that there were so many really strong and even Freddie knew was a really strong personality for you will have to be looked at over and looked after by. 

So that was it. You were here just at the very, very best time. They call that Bobby, dad's golden years ago. 

I think he was everybody's goal that greed is Georgia Tech school really is, it really was the fifties were just amazing. 

What was accomplished? 

Did you ever have the opportunity to go to a ballgame? 

Know what it costs them money to do that. I never went to 0, couldn't go. 

But I bet you listen to the games and well, I did and worried about oh, yes. Yes, I made sure that everything was going well. Really good times for everybody here at school. It's, nothing succeeds like success. 

So when people are winning, everybody feels better about themselves. 

And how did you take to the city of Atlanta? 

Did that have any impact on you at all? 

Did you go to any of the local areas? 

Where did you go to the fox so the varsity or any place else? 

At? 

Yes, I went to both the thoughts and the varsity a lot. 

So they worked harder. You're growing up then? 

Yes. Letting your time here into the big city for the movies. One some occasions, but not too often. We go to in town. And I say downtown. It was Dan downtown anymore. 

But it really why it was that you had to make a trap to get yeah. I mean, you get a lot gets want that. That's right. Some people might take the streetcar. We would normally walk in there. 

But it was fun. I like that lemon. Subsequently, after finishing tech out there, tiff another 22, 23 year, he didn't like it. You never felt uncomfortable or unsafe or anything else. It was a good place for you to be? 

Yes. I felt that way then. I'm not sure yet. Yeah. 

Well, that's exactly right. 

And that time there I've never felt and tell me what what the pattern would be for you when you finished up your your quarter, would you go home for the summer? 

Would you finished up your spring quarter or would you stay on campus? 

Now, I went home and for the summers and it worked. I wanted to hear that work. 

You did go to work, right? 

What worked for your data? 

Either on the farm or in the machinery business. 

So you worked hard? 

Yeah. 

So wasn't powder puff job, not a real job and good. Earn some money and made some money? 

Yes, he paid me. Did that. And then during while I was going to take I worked three jobs. I worked for the what they call the Student Marketing Institute. In the main thing we did was we represented the American Tobacco Company. That was their primary customer. 

And I had lots of friends because they said lots of free cigarettes to be right on the, right on the campuses. Herbert teratogen, pell-mell in one other brand, accept. This was years before anybody thought it was bad. Try them out. Yeah, that's everybody did. That was a paying job for you? 

That was a paying job. And then I worked I worked with Arthur Andersen for two years afternoons. And they pay this wealth like this. I think they paid this better than the job paid me after I graduated from Taylor. 

So they were paying good. We doing I was doing proofreading along with another Tech graduate to become a Technion graduate. And that was a good jack right then. And that was for two years? 

My last two years. 

And then work to jobs selling for company co co cutlery digits, they'll say, oh my goodness, they were that it was a company that if I remember, I was owned by alcohol. 

It was a very I mean, they had the reputation of heavy, the best cutlery on the market at the time, would you sell door to door, door-to-door through references, you'd go out and just go call door-to-door sale? 

Yeah. Boy, that's an experience. That experience. And between all of this, you We had money coming in all the time to help pay for your expenses. 

I did have some money coming in and I hear my daddy raised to with the word gothic, that's Hester and there's no question about that. I was wonder how you got all those things down and got grades to just think of it. 

Well, you're busy, boy, yeah. I was I suppose in them, but I have a good time doing it. Made money in them. My dad did not require me to use that money to pay your tuition. Right. In consequently, I invested that money. 

So you had little incentive to make the Monroe what you wanted to run with it. And so that touches some lessons to me. Yes. That's very interesting. You belong, we looked at in the blueprints that you belong to. 

I can't think of the name of it now, but it was a company that had a k in it and you said Oh, that was the colonial group shirk. Okay. Yeah. What did that well, it's not all about Circle K. Was was the clubs sponsored by the Kiwanis Club International. We had a faculty member. 

Is every cone also supervise that? 

And we had some projects, as I recall, that weren't major projects that we did on campus. As a group. As a group. 

And would they be related to commercial things or retail or a merchant saying, No, I don't want any of that. It was community community service sort of thing. That was pretty altruistic that you were doing a little help. Thank you. Yeah, it'll help practice. And I think the circle K club, the people who in that I think there's a photograph. Isn't a book. Many yearbook, I will have it as well as Toastmasters Southlake is in there. 

So you are really involved when you think about it, Mr. 

Bowen, I didn't you're making it sound like you weren't, but you were you were between the attorney alone can keep you busy. Right. Plus you were in the management cop, which was professional association enemies to do it. 

And you had Toastmasters, you had Circle K, What was SAM? 

That was this SAT if Advanced Management, this every cow, another national or professional, right? 

Laurie, Laurie, we're lucky you got through school. 

But your data at the end, you did it in four years. Zack, even though you change majors, yes. 

Now, if the answer is changed, majors today, they're guaranteed can be here five years. 

So you had an advantage and still get now four years. Did you have to be in the ROTC? 

I was in the Air Force ROTC into my junior year. In that particular time. 

I was told to go to the infirmary and I did and subsequently it was sent to adopt in Atlanta who was an orthopedic person. And I was that happened because my back it was causing me problems. In the orthopedic. Doctor found that I had a defective hip OA in them. 

I still have the defect to hip and I've been to survive this time whenever I have that, I have to have a hip replacement sin. 

But I'm like you manage to put that off for a while. I continue to stick with it. They're not so bad now, you know, they've got right, good at all that kind of stuff. 

So you wait until the technology caught up, right. 

So then you didn't continue in the ROTC? 

I did not keep me out of the arrow to said they didn't feel you were fit and the right to work on a farm and do all the other things I did but not in that area. Had you any intentions of going into the military? 

I did. I really wanted to be a palette. 

Did you know it was kind of a sad thing for you, right? 

Yeah, It was in them, but that those hopes went down the drain and and I suppose o for the best torte down sometimes you don't understand what's happening. You can only see it in her eyesight. One of those time? 

Yeah. Two years of it was obligatory for everybody? 

Yes. Rotc. 

But the third year you are you are going of your own free like volition. 

Do we have a draft then or had the draft to stop maybe at that time it seems to me as though we still had a dream. I still have jobs. 

So you weren't worried about that? 

Now, I was called up for the draft. Oh, you were right in I don't remember that happened the year, so after finishing oh, okay. 

So you managed to get just wanted without hearing from them right. In and I was found to be four F because of this here problem in this. 

So I did not serve any time in the military when 1956 rolled around in the spring and you knew you were going to graduate, What did you have in mind for a career for yourself? 

What were you thinking? 

I was not sure. 

And I was very fortunate in the fact that my GPA was good and I did not I was not faced with any military service. 

So you must have been a hot ticket then. Was I had a number of job offers to jail through the career placement on the camp. I did. 

Who was running at that time? 

If I told you the name, would you recognize it couldn't have been gym wall for I do not remember that. Maybe Jim was running that at that time. 

So they would bring recruited idea. Right. And set up appointment. Right. And you interview? 

Yes. Did you go on any plant tour? 

I did. I went to Armstrong cork. Which was in Lancaster, Pennsylvania. I'm trying to think if I went I think I would afford mode. That's kind of an exciting time that yeah. Yeah. 

Flying you up and down to yes, I was pretty hiding in the what did you choose? 

I chose AT and T because it was the only job alpha head that would keep me Layla. Are you kidding me? 

That's criteria. That was the criteria that time and to this day, that's what happens with graduates. They want a job, they'll keep my Wednesday and lambda. That was what I thought. I won't get that. Now. I mean, I had IBM, one of the big Paypal companies. I cannot remember the name of the company. And as I mentioned forward, I'm Sean cork in London contain that was the Paypal company. 

So you've got an in and an a in AT and T. I'm 80 into eight. You chose them? 

I chose they hate decently. 

I mean, well, why should we even worried about is I recalled AT and T started MIT 325 Alice a month, either 325 of 375, was that competitive to where it was reasonably competitive but it was less than either, but at least part of the jobs that I had offered, but I made the decision to stay here. 

Your dad feel about your choice? 

Did you talk it over with him? 

Why did in that I don't think he had a problem with that. I think he was just do what you want to do, but good advice that was yes, Doing good. 

And they were going to take you in for the sale? 

In our bands, but training or what led to that management training. 

But all of the training we got was done basically was done working with crews and the feel sitting of the switchboard and the old building. 

So downtime from the ground up? 

Yeah. Literally a few months of this or a few weeks to learn the business from a nasa? 

Yes. Were you pleased with your decision? 

Wisely short time delay as they say, yes. And it took all of six months. The sad that that wasn't what I wanted to do then was when I went into selling life insurance. 

And who would entice you into doing that? 

A friend that I knew worked for this Piedmont, it was peed my life at that time. It later became Piedmont Southern life and it has since been acquired by somebody else. Am I don't remember the name of but it was a basic life insurance company. Right. And they were hiring young people ought to come south. Oh, no, I'm sorry, I'm back-up. My neighbor. No. Out across the street neighbor and America's work for them. 

But Mr. 

Lee and he was the one that just talk to me a little bit about the company and how well it was done and how well it was growing. And it could be a good try area. 

So I did that for two years, but basically all of my clients or potential clients had to be cold own at night and say you are working on a funny shifts, right? 

It you're going to call it, right? 

I was basically prospecting during the day and then trying to sell at night with a reasonably new wife and a new child. That was not there's that work and now it's you and you were living in Atlanta? 

Yes. 

So you looked around for something else after the two years that you spent with them? 

Right. 

And how did you land on that company? 

That I can't say, Yeah, Fred, Greg spread the getchar, gets laid it on that through connection with the Chamber of Commerce and America's and IMU back to America, the two years. 

That was a big decision lies in that it was a good decision, looking in hindsight, but about starve to death. 

If you were in a home, place, them at that particular time, they paid me a $100 a week when I started and when I left it was still a $100. Oh, my that was pretty hard to live even back then. America? 

Yes. With responsibilities, timely responses. 

So I'm going back to Atlanta. 

In the meantime, the vice president and president of Reynolds Aluminum Supply Company, which is a was a part of Reynolds Metals Company, had come to America and I had met them at that particular time turn that they asked me to come to Atlanta for a man of you. I came to Atlanta fun out of you. It was hired in our work for them for five years. 

So that was a good move, that it was a great hazard, a very good company. They hired me to start a division for them. What it was they manufactured housing division in it. We so products to the manufacturers of mobile homes, modular housing in recreational vehicles. I didn't know phenols even dip from, from right. That. 

So that was must have been the early concept of that kind of that was the manufactured housing industry had just started moving into the southeast. And they had two big factors in Americas. And there was a factorial when Thompson Georgian, a couple of other factors. 

So why they were doing was literally building the components and constructing them on a site and then moving them nodular housing that done it. 

Well, that's what the manufacturers did. That runs through reynolds. We supplied them with with aluminum siding, we supplied them with fiberglass insulation. We supplied them with some some steel component. 

So the modular housing industry was buying from rental, right? 

Exactly. Right. Don't supply. Okay. And is that where you got the idea that there was a niche market for you? 

Exactly. I stayed with Reynolds until March of 1965. 

And what was your idea? 

What were you going to stop? 

While I had hired a young man who ran a company and America's that sold paint, sandpaper, and some other miscellaneous products to people who repaired car repair, automobile body repair shops. 

So but on a commercial basis, not on a one-on-one right now. 

He he sold them in, but he had started selling to the two companies in the Americas that we're making manufactured housing. 

So the company he worked for went bankrupt. 

So I hired him and we started a little company called Bowen supply, the original supply. 

Well, we supplied the same products that he was supplying hold Paint, masking tapes we would distribute to for 3M. We paints, some small hand tools. And within well, within three or four months, I laugh rentals. In what to work. Oh, okay. Yes. 

So when you started the company and created the name for it, you hired this other guy? 

The other guy because he was without jobs. Right. 

So he had been doing that for a living anyway, you land and see how it would go. Ryan, you kept some money come in, right. 

And then would it look like you could support two of you? 

Then you left Reynolds and women do your own business? 

Yes. In in the interim, had hired to other people to work with him and America's. And because it was taking on I was definitely right in rentals. And I did not I had a bonus program with them. In that during the five years, the bonus program turned out to be very lucrative. For me. In early 65. They came to him and said, we can't know this bonus program anymore. We've got to change out of honoring that they had to change the probe. 

So there was no longer an incentive for you to stay well and just was not as good in so I want to leave that right. 

So I just said to them, I don't think I want to do that and I'll turn them on notice. And at least I knew I had a place to go. And in that two of our suppliers gave me their land. 

That meant I got to tell you this though company I started with $8 thousand in union car bad in Certainty, Corporation gave me their lands of material, which was a big, a big, big, big boost. Mr. Bowen, you left Reynolds to become president. You were already precedent but to actually be an active president of a Bowen Supply Company. 

And in was it in America, sir? 

Atlanta? 

Well, we had opened offices in America, has had a warehouse in November of 960 for when I left, rentals, assisted came with me and we opened an office in 30 330 peach tree road right here anyway. Yes. Hey, in them. 

We would therefore o some three years or four years and move from there to powers theory landing, I think they call it the new office complex. 

So the business was growing. The business grew. It grew from well, from the time we started to $8 million in direct sales in 1969. And another 12 missed a part in 10 million in indirect just five years. You may get us to that point right now. How does the business grow like that? 

Is it you get more customers or you get more lines to carry. Both. Got more customers and more land. And we expanded, we opened two or three additional warehouses. Maybe more than that. We open more on that. I'm sorry. I would probably open 78 warehouses. 

And these warehouses where to store the products you were getting rotten your supply line, right? 

So that your clients or your customers could be service from your warehouses aggregating to get the hang of hot rock work sounds exactly so the whole name of the game as Yeats, really sales on a very large scale, but it's also management so that there's an efficient exchange of everything, correct? 

Right. We we we brought the products in, warehoused them. We would sell them and then deliver the MoMA I will trucks to the customers. And it grew and it grew. 

Now at some point in this time, you must have heard about YPO. I did. In them because your your business, What you were at the helm. He was still very young. 

I had heard about YPO from again, another friend who was originally from Americas, who lived in Atlanta and invited you to write and he did not decline. And at that point in This was in my early 30s. And then did not get re-invite it to somewhere around night. 

Well, back when I was 40 years old, I think 42 was the cutoff point. 

So I had to be before you had to be embodied, you couldn't just go on your own. 

Now, you had to be asked by another member, bonds. 

So when you didn't get asked, when you didn't go the first time, then you blew it for a while that way. Somebody else? 

Yeah. And I just too busy. I really was busy and I was working hard and we never had a lot of employees. Even in our well, we grew the business. And you have what, four or five, hit 45, and then we started adding salespeople. We heard great salespeople. We heard remember these two people from Armstrong core company? 

We heard one from 3M. 

So you're saying here's where supply, right? 

They will supply and thus we say Australia. And they all did well, excuse me. 

But what you're saying is that you didn't have to have a huge staff because you weren't manufacturing the prior two, which is roughly where nothing there. Right. 

So it's a pretty slim line operation that Yeah. We grew the company in November of 1969. 

Now I beg your pardon. January of 970, we sold the company, rewrite the New York Stock Exchange company. That's a big decision, was a big decision. We had grown so rapidly though. We weren't, we were generating profits. 

But because of our growth, we couldn't fund the growth and pay the taxes we will have to pay. 

So it was the best thing for your Iowa at the time. Did they expect the commitment from you to run it for? 

They did. And I did run it for how long? 

For almost three years. They expect to that. Right. 

But then you didn't own anymore, but it will stop ON supply or sailboat supply. 

They did not change the night and they let you they give you back a salary, right? 

In that salary plus bonus. 

And then in November of 972, we succeeded in buying back from them one of the earlier leveraged buyouts. They didn't call it the leverage buyout all the time. 

But we bought it back. We will having the best year we've ever had. 

When we bought it back. You bought back at abroad and Board of Trustees? 

I brought in some outside directors. I didn't directors angel investors that today. Okay. 

See, you attracted some capital than you were in a position to pay for it and come back, right? 

And so without it back, we took ONE some debt and in and we'll still based entirely primarily here in Atlanta with your various warehouses. Yes, you are. I'm writing with them. He right. We had grown to roughly a 125 employees. Wow, I'd say we're probably 25 here in Atlanta in them. 

So it was growing big. We hit them. A lot of new lands. You get a lot of HR problems. People. Yeah, because those kind of fathers ASL. 

So then along came after we bought it back. My vision was that the competitive about US gave the stock and I kept all of their stock. 

We bought it back because the stock just appeared boost going to keep on going up and little did I know that when I bought it back from them, the stock was at roughly $30 a share. The time 975 ended, it was down to $2 a share. 

Well, and I had use a dot to Borrow money against about the company back. 

But our vision was that my vision was was to take the company public in early 1973. And it so happens that real estate VAE is banks started to fail in 1973. That was when, for example, C and S Spike had such major problems. In 73 all the real estate companies who are having problem that you were in good company as well. Anyway, lots of companies with Viagra, lot of my customers would buy grew up. Wow, I mean, you really well over half of them. Are you able to salvage it? 

We salvaged barely, but we salvaged. We never file bankruptcy. 

But it was it was touchy and it's almost like what your dad had to go back all those years before with his his tractor company? 

Yes, sir. By the universe depression. Yeah. Wow. What a lesson, huh? 

Yeah. 

And is that the time then that somebody invited you to what? 

It was? 

I think they invited me to appeal and about 970. 

So you had already reached lover. We had started to recover where we had cut way back on the numbers of people. We cut back on the numbers. We've gotten up to 18 warehouses. 

So we're back on their math like we made a cut back to seven, a cutoff. 

So this time when the invitation came, era where step that right. Because, you know, I had really had never had a concept of what YPO was all about. 

It turned out that that was a great decision because in particularly being in the forum has been a great thing for me. 

And then like a board of directors, the guys don't mind telling you what they fake, which is such a wonderful thing. 

What is honesty can be painful, but yeah, you know, and if you can trust who was saying it, then if life less than you could have used a little bit of that in 73, right? 

Yeah, that's exactly what they came along after the fact. You were a wiser man, a poor man, but a while. 

But the fact of the matter is that made you who you are today. That that's like the baptism by fire. Being a real businessman is going through the bad times as well as the good times. 

So you have more wisdom to pass on to other folks know, when you first got into YPO, which you said you thought might have been in 1976, how how long after that did did your particular form form, the rebel form was very shortly after it. 

So I will say it could have been 7870. 

So within a few years, had already met, the other gentlemen riot ended up being the forum. Forum one. 

Yes, we call it the rebel tapped on the call you rebel chapter just because it was herself just to south. Exactly. And they weren't all from Atlanta. Some of them were Oh, no, no. They were I mean, we had people been cheek was she wanted and we had to begin with. We have a couple of guys from Macon. We had one from Chad knew that that auricle. 

So it was just the south, right? 

And that someone invite you to be on that particular forum or does it just talked and what is your background? 

Just like it just happened. I think it was like the gas. John Darden, I think was instrumental in putting that altogether. 

Because as I recall, john was either YPO National President of the International, national, international precedent, either during that time or just after. 

But he was very involved. 

And then a forum started somewhere on the West Coast, exactly in California, had been seemed to be working it work was working in so John, along with I think the guy from California, jigs Davis, if I recall that name correctly, came over here. It helped organize this group and the group started out maybe 25. Very quickly. Got down. Yeah, What is 14 now? 

What I want yeah, I think there were 600. We were 16. Right. 

And, you know, it's, it's extraordinary for men to bond with that rather the other manuscript that was what you were doing very hurt us, was unheard of. 

And yet it didn't take you very long to establish the commodity and the confidence to each other like these, the forum as it exists today. The best rooms I have, let's say very few people have 14 best friend. I know. Wonderful friends. And I would say to you that I love each and every one of them. I mean, I feel very close to them. That's what makes this so remote. The fact that you have the trust in each other, you could really you trust them with your life. You would trust them with your business? 

Yes. 

If you had the business interests and you would certainly listened and weigh all the antibiotics? 

Yes. Because nothing would be frivolous. 

Now, what do you think made it work? 

Because it doesn't work everywhere. Everybody doesn't have this. What made them work? 

I really can't tell you that. I think though it was, you know, we we will all from different businesses. Number one, that was a big deal. There's no competition, right? 

There's no competition. And I think it was just everybody banded together. 

We've been through lots of problems, business problems, perse emotionally, it was all business provides. 

But as you bonded and started doing social flies, it became more than that, right? 

Because life does that to us. Yes. People die, people get divorced, or their kids don't do what they want them to do. And you pretty much have gone through the whole gamut together. 

And you're in the midst of what will be many more crises, personal crises, health issue, yes, primarily healthy, depth espouse. 

If I then through that, those kinds of things can be very, very challenging. It's mind boggling that there's that many of you to support each other? 

Yes. Because most people don't get that kind of appointment, not alone. That is a wonderful feeling to know that you've got that support. I think it's an amazing thing. Yeah. Just amazing that you have support. 

Somewhere along the line that decision was made that you are not going to disband just because some organization thought you ought to know. That's true because YPO thought that once we age data YPO that we should display end. 

I mean, the reason the make and at least two of the Macon fellows got out is because when they reached 50, that was, that was it. I reckon that was the next one to reach 50 probably in the group and you didn't want to go. That's right. Because I am the oldest person in the group. And so the Gerst bad. You don't have to. Yeah. And in fact, they took the stand that nobody nobody wears go and age differences are very minimal. Yes. I'm the youngest to oldest. Yeah. I mean, we're we're not talking about a huge span. Yeah. I mean, you're all in the same generation? 

Yes. 

But from very different backgrounds? 

Yes. Yeah. Some of you were from a very elite silver spoon backgrounds and some of you like your very own. 

So he knew what it was, work with chance. Right? 

And did not have very privileged. And yet it work through, it does work. And that's what's amazing too. 

Do you think it was a good thing when families got involved? 

Has that strengthen that? 

What do you do things where your wives come to oh, yeah. Christmas party? 

Yes. It strengthens. It does. 

And it gives them an opportunity gives them being the wives, an opportunity to meet the waves it in not only that, for example, my wife Linda knows all the guys very well as well as the wives. In a sentence. It's been, that's been a plus, right? 

He gives her chimps to interact with them. 

And when you have that many support people behind you because it isn't just the 13 other members, that's 26 other for the most part, round numbers. Some of them. It can be difficult because divorce happens, that happens, people remarry. 

You've got a whole committee to sell to, not just your skin immediate family, but you've got all the people that you're going to set this to an extent. 

But the way it is with the forum guys and me, we don't guys don't gels know and we don't go home until the wives. What's go well known, I mean, anything sort of general information. There's somebody sick. 

You tell them what we done before a membership that when you get together for your lunches, whatever you talk about in whatever confidence is our exchange are just that they stake ESA, stay confidential. And you can know that. And that's the magic of Israel. Can say what you want so you don't have to hold your cards to your chest. Exactly. Nobody is threatening you. Nobody's, you're just totally secure in that, right. 

Which is something most people think if they get one or two people in their life they can share with it's a miracle. And look at you. Are you blessed? 

I know these people. Yeah. You talk to me about your us mentioned your wife on to tell me about your family. Tell me about Linda. Linda and I have been married for going on 19 years. She's second wife. Linda had two children back. Her first husband, I had two children by Matt first wife. And they're all bolus and they had all had their pre-work grown up by the time you had Mary? 

Yes. 

So you don't have little kids who had been announced that they were Mac kids were sons were in my oldest son was 2728, my youngest, so 23. They were adults. They were adults. And children and her kids were still both in college. Young adults. Young adults? 

Yes. 

So the blending of the families worked out fine work that very, very good. Everybody had their own thing to do arise. I will get along great. That's wonderful. Tell me about yours. This one is now this one is Fred and he came back here, that S Grant. And he went to Georgia Tech. He went to Georgia Tech was an essay. Georgia Tech to that place you very much so. And he graduated, I think you told me in 198181. And also in management? 

Yes. 

And what is he doing for listening today? 

He is an options trader that has scary, right? 

He when he first ladies Tech did not want to go to work for Boeing supply. And he elected to go with a company based in Atlanta and I cannot remember the name of. And about a year later he called me and said I'd like to work for him. And so he started in sales in North Carolina. Did that. He hits did sales in North Carolina and it might now be partly started in Florida, I think. And subsequently it was transferred the north Carolina, then back to Georgia. And he later became a vice president. Then I made him president and CEO before. It was all over. And I did that sometime in the late eighties. And so he was a young man. He was young. He is also unhappy. I was just going to ask you, did he go into live? 

He did. And he's now out of YPO because He sold company again, 997. And tell me how did you come to that decision? 

You are ready to retire. I was out of it, but I didn't want to keep it on forever as a family business. 

Well, that would have been nice. 

But I could sort of see the handwriting on the wall. It could be difficult. 

But mainly because in my judgment, business was going down. I was now it overheated. And when it overheat still is going to be a cooling off period. 

So it might be best to get out right away. We sold it almost the peak of the overheating, which was a good thing. It was a very good thing, yes. 

Were you Was it a challenge to find someone to buy it or were you courted by other companies? 

We would not really coded. We'll just let the word out. 

And now we had several people who expressed an interest and then call a friend who had recently taken his company public. And his name happened to be Jerry. Jerry. We think we want to sell the company. Are you interested in that? 

There was no hesitation whatsoever. He said yes. 

He said When can we may accompany it was based in Fort Worth and asset will meet whenever you want to make it. 

So we set up a meeting time. Head his in house. He already owned a big company. Unless there's gotta be a murderer. He had sold his company, I mean, to take the public. He was also someone supply prop Hotmail. I was one of your visions but it never happened. Never happened. 

So you did have the ability then to just sell to make a decision right then? 

So we sold him the company. And what's the form supportive of that? 

Yes. Very much. As they do all the problems I had head and as they are by that oh, yes, they will. Great consultants. 

So and then subsequently this company that bought bought a company that was larger than his company and mock company combined. He took ONE, roughly a quarter of a billion dollars in debt. And they went bankrupt along with several other companies. 

So it doesn't assemble now know and want to just under what it Fred do when the when you sell the business, inhale with the business for a while? 

He did go with the business for a while. He made they opened an office in Atlanta and he managed the office in Atlanta. I mean, when I say office, he had a number of salespeople. They kept basically all of our people that we had. They bought us. 

So Novum was displaced now simply into a different ryanair with different happening. What a pity that it didn't make. It got too many bytes to, it was I did a bit. This tribe, they go to bed, but that particular time it looked like growth was going to be forever. I had been through that to other times in a new or unknown be forever. Let's talk about the issue or other son right? 

Lay his his head. And a number of jobs has had several problems. Whether he occupation today, he works with Costco. Which is the word I thought here kind of go every week in our family. He is currently in a training program with him. 

So this has turned out to be a good thing for Hey, it will be a good thing for him. That's great. Do you have any grandchildren? 

I have one granddaughter who belongs to my son Fred. Okay. In Fred's first wife. And how old is your brand or she is 19. Oh, she's gone up to she is a freshman at the University of Georgia. Oh, my God, they had were not really. I leave once a year on football, right. You know. And she is what's her name? 

Her name is Kelly. Kelly. 

But Kelly will do well whether she's too young to know what are the highest is right now. Wants to go into go with someone like Turner Broadcasting just once get intermediate, right. She I think she I know she spent a summer working with Turner. She's in the right school. Yeah. I mean, there's that that's asked for her though. She's excited about that. She said several Y equals little of journalism and news casting in that type of thing. That's what she wants to do. 

Well, good. Maybe it will be seeing on television. Yeah. That's what she wants today. And is Leigh married? 

Lee has been married in is now currently engaged. He was married very early own and divorced and has been single for, I don't know, ten years maybe. And now he's thinking of I know he is engaged currently. 

We're very pleased with the young lady she's engaged, taught, doesn't have any grandchildren? 

She does. Yes. What am I talking about? 

We just have her oldest son had a child. Tell me the names of her two boys since your us with that. David and John. John. 

So David and John and become part of your family till they hit your outlines in. David is currently he is the lead real estate tax attorney for GE in London. Your pay live abroad and they've been a day for about three years. David in his wife Catherine, had a young son. Young baby. They usually young when they Yeah, it is. Yeah. That's his name. George. George. George was born in July, August. 

So he's not even a year old. That might have seen him once and they're coming back to visit with us again in August. A wonderful, We're lucky for reasons that are lonely hero. And what about John? 

John is, is a David. First of all, it was a graduate of Florida State and also of American University in Washington. 

So he's gotta he is both a CPA and an attorney. 

John was a graduate of the University of Florida with a degree in some sort of computer science, rivaling brothers there in John works for a company in Atlanta that I can that tell you the name of doing a lot of programming is right here. 

He also has about three or four separate companies involved with in helping them do various things with computers. And he also has a company of his own that he has done programs for the beauty salon. 

So all the boys are doing well. They always are doing very well. 

Now you invented do not live in Atlanta primarily. 

Now moved coast. We live. Right. We'll see Alan. How long ago did you move to Sam? 

Well, excuse me. We move See Allan. Excuse me, last July. 

Oh, not so long that now we had lived at a place called Spring Island, South Carolina, which is a barrier island located very close to Hilton Head. Okay. 

So you like being right on the coast, right? 

So you decided to write ions the right. And now you come back and forth. We do. We have a house and blowing Rock, North Carolina. Oh, in until just recently, we just moved out of a house in South Florida. 

So what's going to be the main place the island? 

See Allen Mae and blowing rock. 

And blowing rock is vacation home for you? 

Well, it is, but if it's a home for about six months out of the year or whether you live there half? 

Yeah. Let's have summer or winter. Summer. 

So you spend your summer and the mountain, right? 

And your winter on the show, I guess, where I felt like a pretty good deal on it is sprayed in life. 

Not as warm as down in Florida in the winter, but such thing as too much, huh? 

Well, it's pretty temporary lab. We haven't had more houses than we wanted the house We sold in Florida or in the process of selling. We decide we have a boat. 

It will keep the boat and South Florida most of the time we decided we'd rather live on the boat during the two or three months that were around there? 

Yeah. 

Rather than typical house and try to figure out what clothes you got, where you got, where it can get complicated. Yeah. 

Well, it's been quite a story and it's still in process. You are going to think about getting that hip replaced. 

Dy, I'm going to do that because it'll just make so much more mobile has so many things for you to get from one place to another to go so much better for you. 

And now with a new grandson coming along, a granddaughter to watch, go into success, you've got to be fit. I don't keep up with all these people, right? 

That's right. I will do my best to do. 

Well, they've got the technology pretty down pat now so you can always get better. 

But how much an ongoing way? 

Well, some things just don't need to be brought on. It. I'd say you had done an amazing job of postponing because you were at Tech 50 years ago. It's right. And somebody told you that 50 years ago you ought to have that hip replaced. 

So I don't even know they didn't know they were due. I don't know. They just told me I had a defective hip. I have something that is cold legs per thes. 

So you got a name and everything does and I had never heard of it. In very few people had ever heard of, I bet if we went online and google that week. 

But in no time at all. And it probably just very, very fixable. Replaced him right now. 

Well, I can't thank you enough for taking time out of your busy lives to come and share it with us. And I'll look forward to hearing that that hip gets taken care of. Thank you so much for listening to me. It's been a pleasure. It's been a pleasure for me as well. Thanks. Thank you.