This is a living history interview with Mickey CRM or shine, class of 950, one conducted by Maryland's summers on July the 25th of the year 2001. We are here at Georgia Tech and the Wardlaw building. And the subject of our interview is making life in general, his experiences at Georgia Tech. Thank you so much for joining us here today. We're glad that you came to Atlanta. Pleasure so that we can hear your story. And after much delay, we are ready to rock and roll. Tell me where you began. Where did this all start? 

Well gosh. It started in 1929, I guess. When I was born in Jasper, Indiana. Jasper, Indiana? 

Yes. 

And your daddy was Frank, k-mers summer shine, and my mother was Frieda, summer shy, freedom Mueller, summer shine. And what did that do for a living? 

My dad was a cabinet makers. Jasper, Indiana is recognized as one of the leading furniture manufacturing centers in the country. They make beautiful quality furniture. 

So he was a craft, he was a craftsman, but he also was a musician. What instrument? 

He was the drummer. He was the town drummer. That town Dremel drill. 

And I say that because well, why was growing up? 

I can't ever remember going to a dance that my dad wasn't on the stage playing the drums. 

So he really literally play it every time there was music to be made that yes. Was it a planned it will tell us what they didn't buy. And of course back then in the late 40s, it was the big swing, 0, 1 Konami Darcy or music fan. I did. 

But unfortunately, yeah, I do have some rhythm as well, but I can't saying I can't play an instrument that daddy didn't pass that all. I don't know. 

But he was he was he was an interesting man. Like you said, he was a craftsman. And he made the beautiful furniture. And like say, a cabinet maker. 

And if you've if you're familiar what we call the brake fronts, the tall boys, they call him paul Boyd Craig, France, where they have the three sections. That was his specialty. Right. 

So yes, we'll works of art? 

Yes. 

And he was that a craft that he learned from his father? 

Because many times, artisans pass those kinds of things down. Yes. His dad also was. They worked at the same company, Jasper cabinet count. Your mother many years. Yes. It was passed on to him. He he built the house. We lived in a good deal of furniture. And in today's age, it's just amazing. I mean, those are cherish it. I'll cherish about things. I hope you have some of that furniture that you can now rarity. The wedding present was a was a tall boy, break for all, wonder, civilian cherished a minute. It's in our living room and it's beautiful. He, as you would expect, a sort of a perfectionist. And I've seen him working on a piece of furniture that was just about finished. He would look at it. It's the miter just wasn't right. To tear down it over and over again. 

And I see that truly as craftsmanship, people just don't do that anymore very much it is, That's why I find you arrive a feeling that although he didn't, he didn't give me any musical talent. I think he gave me philosophy there of you got to, you got to do your best. 

So if it's worth doing do it right, exactly. And later on in, in my career, I saw the picked up on a phrase. It's early in the original. I think it depicted his philosophy and to certain extent mine. And it goes something like this. Good, better best, never let it rest to your good is better and your better best. 

And through the years, I can't tell you how many times that trade has been said in, in the deep recesses of our mind. One had a great philosophy when I wasn't entirely happy with what was going on. 

Good way to say, Hey, pay attention to your dad, would tear down and start over, you know how to do it, right? 

Yes. Did you have brothers and sisters? 

I had a brother and two sisters. 

So you've been up in the midst of a yes. 

But I was a baby. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. 

So they can all my brother, my brother and my two sisters say, Of course I was a favorite, you know, I like to think I was. Why did you go to elementary school, St. Joseph great school as a Catholic grade school. And maybe I'll describe Jasper a little more. Counter town is Jasper in the 940 senses it was 5000. Oh, we're talking small towel. Yes. 

But at that time in 940, there were close to 30 woodworking plants and tiny little town, yes. Just about everybody was encased in the in the business. Exactly. And it was a Jasper desk. Jasper office furniture company. Who's your desk? 

The Jasper cabinet company, Indiana Chair Company. Jasper Chair Company. 

And these were these were all sort of companies that were offshoots of the large Catholic German families in that area. 

And so brother, which would spin all for the family and start his own company, is how the woodworking expertise was. 

It all came together, they all came together and how the continuity was built in through the years, through the, through the families. And the craftsmanship is very, very, very good. 

Jaspers compared to some of the elite centers like High Point, North Carolina in Battle Creek, Michigan. Because rapid humans, grandma? 

Yeah. In Grand Rapids, Michigan. Yeah. Thank you. I never you remember that and Jasper is right up there with it and still is. And they're still oh, just a tremendous number of woodworking plants. I think perhaps there has been some consolidation, but the Kimball international started. Is there, the home of Kimball International is there and Jasper. And it started from and these weren't large companies, say they were relatively small. 

But it started with the genesis of Kimball International is a Jasper wood products company. 

So happy place to Carla. 

There's an awesome place to go up by this, this philosophy that, that I relayed theory of good, better, best was, was true and everything that those people did, the school system was great. 

The recreational facilities were very in 1938 in Jasper, they built a high school gymnasium that had a seating capacity of close to 5000. Oh my word. I said 930. 

So everybody in town could kind the 1947 with and in the 1940 census, 5,041 up that cell to make a blue arrow on in the community can catalyze Guo Jia. 

Isn't that a man on Friday nights when the high school team was buying kinda guy saying, you couldn't see it. It said it was a tremendous towns support and pride and everything that happened with the tremendous. And so what a beautiful and Barb. Keep your hours very, very lucky. There are no arching in those days. The sisters taught school too, I guess rapidly. 

And there may have been a few lay people, but mostly it was the sisters that hot and they lived to teach, Did they not? 

They really did. And it was the sisters of providence from Saint Mary of the Woods in Terre Haute, Indiana. And there's a tie there because that's where my mother I had a knife and come around. Yeah, it really is. 

So so my love affair with a Froude and started back in first grade school. Like going to school as a youngster. I really did it and I look good. I didn't and you liked it. Fortunately, I was able to do well in school and I enjoyed it. And I I I I did I enjoy school. Very new and athlete from the beginning. No, not in grade school. I was in grade school. 

But one of my one of my big disappointments I guess, was not We had very organized groups like this. The fifth, fifth, sixth grade great school team, and then the seventh, eighth grade school team. 

And it was it was fairly well organized, but I was always interested in sports, but I I don't guess I matured until about the sixth grade. And one of my big this point, as I was mentioning was, uh, I I got cut from the fifth grade. You know what they were? 

Well, it was interesting. There's there are several reasons for that. I think. One was my stature. It seemed like I grew about a foot between my fifth, sixth grade minus that foot as dry. 

Plus I have to give credit to my best friend, Jim fridge, who is also a classmate of mine in tech, that Jim and I grew up together. We went through grade school, high school, and college. And we lived a block from each other. And Jim is one of my heroes. He, he really taught me the importance of the essence of competition. Jim, Jim is the ultimate competitor. And it wasn't until I understood that were jailed was coming from, you know. Give you an example. I live a block away from Jim. Bob is on the way to school, so I pick that book by James asked and we'd walk to school. Oh, we wouldn't we wouldn't be a block up the street. 

Jim would say, you got a nickel fumble around my body, I have an echo and he said, I'll shoot some gutter, I guess, for the nickel. And we'd shoot marbles up the gutter, leg up the gutter. And if I hit him, I get is Nicole and if he hit my egg and you don't well, I got tire lose a nickel. Yeah. Are we get the school we'd have 1520 minutes. We'd shoot baskets, you know, again, he dare you heed. He was always pushing it. 

But the Jim, Jim believes strongly in this work as this competition that if you're going to play the game, you gotta go all out and do it to the best of your mental and physical ability, et al, said is challenging you. He challenged me all the time. 

And today, Yogi of an Irish close as brothers, in fact, perhaps even closer when you get right down to how fortunate you are to retain that friendship. 

It has to be very valuable, exactly right? 

And we were very fortunate to, to be sort of a like we were both guards on the basketball team. He was the pitcher and I was a catcher, also, a spy. You can really double tag team everything exact. That's great. Very good. Where did you go to high school? 

Jasper high school. As you left the good patronage of the nonce and went to a public high school? 

Yes. 

But the reason for that is in Jasper. At that time it was about 90 percent Catholic. 

So there is Jasper high school was pretty much a Catholic high school, although it didn't have the signature. That's exactly right. A very like community, everybody on the same. Social wise, economically based on the saints, even keel. 

So there wasn't exactly and hasn't have-nots. Yeah. It sounds really know. It sounds like Leave It to Beaver. 

Well, it really really was, you know, there, there was no class error one everyone had a chance for everybody, Aragon had the perfect opportunity to develop and now you hit high school. 

Did you take a little more active role in athletic? 

I started in my sixth grade, really didn't even take that one. 

I don't know because like I say, I was growing up pretty fast and then I was moving from from softball, which was the early grades sport to baseball. 

And I was catching and we had we didn't have little league back the MO we had what we call American Legion ball. 

So Jim and I both at that point or we were maybe playing with people in where we were in the seventh grade we were playing with in Legion ball. We were playing with kids that were soft freshman and sophomore in high school. 

So you had some real competition and doing well, right. And so and you did well throughout high school? 

Yes. And like basketball, this very small town, wonderful, comfortable growing up, experience. While an asset. It doesn't sound like it could have been any better really. It was perfect. 

How did know when your parents were raising you? 

Did you always know you were going to go to college? 

Was that just a given or did you just occur to you later in life? 

That's an interesting question. I think early on, perhaps, maybe in grade school, seventh, eighth grade, somewhere in there. It wasn't a factor. I didn't think about it. 

One when we got into high school that the discussion began of rainwater, you going to do? 

Where are you going? 

And that one very much discussion about scholarships, you know. 

But from an athletic standpoint, because during this period, if, if you look at it from a chronological standpoint, we're right in the myths of the war. 

So this would have been like 4344. 

And if anything, and in the back of our minds at that point growing up it was where are we going to be in the military? 

Muslim welcome to last for long. 

Was it going to last that we would end up graduating from high school and the next day be at the Induction Center, which of course was happening all over the Oh, yes. 

Well, it happened and then the class of 40, 44, and 45. Hey, everybody. Yeah. 

So you would just pass that time you were able to finish high school? 

And at what point in time did you make the decision you are going to come to school up to college. And how did you pick Tech? 

Well, that if I could describe the period, please. Jasper and India is a hotbed of basketball, has always been hotbed of basketball. 

So a lot of the colleges, Indiana University, Purdue, Kentucky, even though it was in the Southeastern Conference, was a premier basketball state. High schools were tough and college recruiter good. 

Not only just Kentucky winning national championships in the late forties, but you had teams like Western Kentucky, Evans Will college, and Evans Will Indiana. They were they were all very good and they had established programs. When the when the war ended. All colleges, welcome back their veteran players. 

Well, at Indiana and Kentucky and Purdue, Illinois, Evans Will college, Indiana stay. They had a wealth of talent coming back from the, from the military. 

So their sales pitch to college, it to high school graduates back then. Forty six, forty five, forty six percent come to come to come to Indiana. And when you make the team, you will have a full athletic scholarship. 

Contrast that to some of the themes in the Southeastern Conference, who were primarily football colleges, foot, football was the predominant sport. They had a wealth of talent coming back from the military football players. 

But they haven't come on. Yes. 

So at the time the athletic directors were saying that we need a balanced program at Georgia Tech, if I can use that as example. 

So there was an effort to build and give basketball scholarships. Say Craig and I was recruited from Georgia Tech. And the man that did this was a Hoosier from southern Indiana. His name was Bob Polk. 

Bob was a naval officer in the 12 program, I believe they call it, and was a professor here at Georgia Tech. And the basketball coach during the war was Dwight Keith. Dwight was sort of a assistant athletic director, but he was he was a numbers guy. He was sort of the administrator of the athletic department, but he inherited the basketball team. 

Well, Bob WHO grew up and tell City, Indiana and went to evans of our college and was a great basketball player at guard at 700 college. And of course then he ends up in the military. 

But what would you think? 

Indiana gym rat would do if he found himself on the campus at Georgia Tech teaching naval history or whatever he was teaching to those cadets. What would he do in class was over? 

He probably went to the gym. He went to the jail. And Koch dry key thought it was the Second Coming here because here was Baja out. My gosh. 

Instead of rolling the basketball floor and Thelma bells ago and it was Bob folk comes in and he starts the drills and defensive schemes and they all fell. 

So what did they did? 

He go around looking for? 

Well, they they offered coach WHO a job. He he he he had some pride to, I guess. And he said that he would he would like to be the assistant coach at Georgia Tech for two years. 

But he wanted to commitment from the athletic department that he would be able to recruit and bring in. 

I think I remember correctly, bob coach folk told us that he wanted the five players a year, which he did get got three, I believe. So. He was accepted by an anti-immigrant look in jasper. Where Yao plank, so good You were we were here, were known. We were very good. Plus del cities 30 miles from Jasper. 

So he was coming home to the skin, to the evans Ville, Indiana tell city. They're both on the river. Jasper sort of in the triangle between the two. And so he he knew all the coaches up their high school coach. He was plugged dad, he knew what was going on. 

He went to where the where the goal was, so to speak, you know, and you and Jim both for playing and playing, wow. Yes. Yes. Yes. He i and u then a scholarship. 

And, and there was another young man named Joe keener, who is tremendous forward at Evans Will Central High School. And he invited Joe and Jim down in the spring. 

And first time, tower landmarks time to Atlanta, first time that Georgia Tech acquires it first-time to Georgia Tech. It was an eye-opening experience for her. The homepage for young for two, for three young man really not. Joe grew up in a little larger city, Evans bill for Yahoo. 

And they trusted enough to, to get on a train and Evans bill and come down our own pretty big adventure lastName. First time honestly for me, it was quite an experience. 

Can you remember what you thought? 

I mean, did you think this this is that this is where I belong are well, yes, but yet we precautious, we still had some options. There are some other offers around. The park coach gave you on the yellow, jasper had had feelers out. He was a Purdue grad. And so he's going to lookout I mean, excuse me. He was an Alabama grad. Okay. That but he wanted to that was asked for it. He has some ties at Purdue and he was talking to them, you know. 

Well then how did you make the decision? 

I guess after that three days here at the Tech in the spring of 47. It was a it was not a basketball court recruiting trip. We met Dean Griffin. Coach took us to meet Dean Griffin. And course, this guy's a charmer. Was he put the moves that you know, he he talked about the tradition of Georgia Tech. Have you ever heard of Georgia Tech me for them? 

Oh, sure. The song I was around when you're familiar. 

Of course, we're familiar with with the outstanding federal law, football and et al, that this peripheral. And Joshua else to 0. We met Dean Smith and Dean Smith was always the math the mail, yes. Dm was always playing sports. Yes, he loves sports. When Abraham Ajax. Write out the big guns for you. 

Yeah, Daddy, DNA jacks here we were we were just, you know, high-school, not even graduate high school. Yeah. 

In DNA, Jack's tells about what great job opportunity that I have when we graduated from Georgia Tech. That was if that was his department, he was dean. I don't know what he's Tyler was a career placement year career place for anybody. 

But he had a assistant dean, I believe, students, I think. And he, and he and George Griffin. Griffin were were really good friends and they work closely together. How Joe and Jim made up your mind wherever it was, it was going to be together. Oh, that was that was pretty much the thoughts. And attack the solver with each other then. Yeah, we did, but, but I think what was interesting is coach polk knew that too. I mean, he thought he was going to get two for two for 12 for one offers. He was. 

So I'm almost positive that we would probably ended up going somewhere together, you know, because because Jupiter was pretty excited and coach work harder and coach better, we're baseball coach was cockpit of a baseball coach and he was like the you come gave us very happy. 

So another big inducement in the spring of 47 was the old college freshmen rule was going back into effect. It had been suspended during the terms of the war. 

So everyone was, was saying to recruit them, come to Georgia Tech. Come to Georgia Tech. And you will be eligible for four years of varsity competition. 

If you enroll before summer school starts, like looking first to July or the 25th of June, something like that. If his latter part of June. 

But the rule was July first, you have to be enrolled before July 1st so that that applied pressure to the situation then? 

Yes. 

But it was attractive because going back to the other programs that were established, the chances of freshman breaking into columnar shape one and actually playing and getting a scholarship with all this talent coming out of their location. 

So that was very attractive. 

And Bob pull this flat out, said that I know, I know we're, the tech program is you will play a lot of ball. You will play for four years. 

So varsity ball, you a letter for four years, varsity ball, and you'll play a lot of ball. And there's a good chance that you could start your freshman year. 

So that was very attractive. Very, very attractive. Did your parents influence you on that? 

No, they did not. They let you make your own decisions. They did certainly appreciate them. Although they thought 400 miles was a mouthful. 

Well, how do we go? 

And it's been a wrench for them. They realized it was a real opportunity. Yeah. And Bob folks. Bob folks, the prediction came true. We, we all played a lot of freshman ball. I was fortunate enough to, to Tolkien or an hour, both fortunate enough to play. Start and have always been blessed with good Hill. I think I'm still in the record book of playing a 106 consecutive games. And Georgia Tech. 

Now, back then we only played about 2022 games, Twenty-three a year. 

Now they play 30 hints that more. 

So I'm still in the top ten. 

I'm sorry, number of games, you know, those interesting point if we keep his word Huh? 

To the latter right? 

Now, having selected Georgia Tech, we probably did it on the train, ride back. The three of us, we decide I could just teary odds law kind of I what to do? 

Yeah. Yeah. 

I don't think what are you worried at all about the academic part of that? 

Did anyone say, Hey, this is a tough school you're going to have to study and oh, yes, they did tie it all. Dean Griffin. I remember that very, very strongly. And Dr. Smith did too. And he said that math was was was which was his department, was was very strong. In fact, I remember the statement being made and I think it was Dean Smith. I mean, Dean Griffin said that that institutions are measured in several ways. He said the seller measured by their facilities. And some are measured by the faculty, and some are measured by the quality of the graduates. And he says at Georgia Tech, we are building the faculty. This was right after the war. We are building the faculty. We're short on bricks and mortar. We're short on facilities. 

But you cannot beat the graduates of Georgia Tech. They are excellent. And Perhaps one way we sort of control that is that only the cream gets skewed. I didn't ever to act for that didn't store glassy. Look on your eye like I did. Oh, hi, he will be with you next year at UK. Miss a good, strong student. You had good grade, you stayed strong all through high school. 

So you are just perfect for them. 

They must have been just throw line to get their hands on you, knowing that you would do well academically because that's what they're looking for, isn't yes, doomed airfoils back to that Jasper heritage tradition of excellence there that you had learned how to apply yourself? 

Yes. 

So by the time you got back to Jasper, you decided you're going to be ramble Rex? 

Pretty much. So. We did I remember chatting given IOC or WeChat it everyday. 

But Joe are several conversations over the telephone with Joe and and we we did decide to go to Tech. And you made it before the 1st of July, so you were going to qualify. 

So when did you actually come to the campus them? 

In in the spring of 47. 

Now, I mean, after you went back, what did you come back to start school? 

Was that summer. Okay. I'll give you a little prologue. That spraying in the in the high school ranks. Indiana played an All Star game every year with Kentucky. And it had been going on for several years, even during the war, it was able to be sustained. 

So fortunately, I was one of the selections for the Indiana all stars, as was Joe keener. 

So here we hit on the Indiana all-star team. We had to Georgia Tech. Who would I like to guide? 

It really? 

Guides. Very good. Very good. 

So how did the howl of the papers that you are coming in? 

Yes. Oh, yes. You got on there. And then the program in the All-Star game, it is the high school and then committed call. And we were we were in with some very nice company. Bill Garrett, who is from shall we build Indiana, was the first black Big Ten player at Indiana. And he was a great, great center. 

So we we had we had a good team, Indiana off of it that you do? 

Yeah. 

We played Kentucky some time on this like Saturday, maybe the 15th, 16th, 17th of June or somewhere in that timeframe. I was Saturday night. On Sunday. We gym and I flew out of events fail with Joe keener. And on Monday morning, we're in the line up at Tech registering for the previous summer quarter. 

O says you didn't even wait for the thigh you came for summer quarter event, came for the summer to be eligible. Bar sneak out. That that's what that meant. I understand. I've often thought, tried to think back of the thought process that went into making this selection. Because it was, it was, it was a selection that that has certainly influenced the rest of my life. And of course, still influencing my, my love for Georgia Tech. And it was serendipitous because anybody could have recorded you. You were you were good. 

And what magic occurred? 

You you really can't put your finger on what it was, but a combination of things. We were here. Joe was getting a lot of pressure, may have until college. I bet they wanted him to stay there. 

And it was I know he he wrestled more than Gemini did, I believe home that decision, but I'm awfully glad he did. That was fun. It was it was fun. Having selected Georgia Tech, which is a major life decision, if you will. We were into June, latter part of June, all of July, and into August. And as far as I know, we're all doing fairly well in the first quarter grade wise. And also that was a that was a plus. We were feeling good about that. 

And it looked like we were going to come out a seller session, some reporter session with a very good start going into the fall. 

Well, Bob pull towards the middle end of August, calls this in in is Joe and Gemini sitting there. 

We thought we'd done something wrong in her heart or maybe a stubbed toe and one of the classes or are we just didn't know we were perplexed. And Bob says that on the most painful thing to do is to tell us that he's leaving Georgia Tech. See referencing a mentor who we were we were losing our anchor tag. This was to be our basketball coach and he had made a lot of promises. He did. 

And he said that he had an offer to be head coach at Vanderbilt University, that he had, had been debating in wrestling with it. He says his wife's about the throwing up because of this decision. Let's see here. She was from Southern India and also in Vanderbilt. 

Was another what, 200 miles closer, I guess, to Indiana or not? 

I really don't know what that was factor, but it might have been. 

But it was a prestigious school, Vanderbilt. And he said that they gave him tremendous salary increase. 

And they had agreed to not all of his scholarship demands, but that they they were going to build the basketball program at Vanderbilt. And he was asking you to understand. And he was asking us to understand. Then he says, what I will do is on or year three scholarships at Vanderbilt. He's proposing that you could leave and go with him? 

Yes. Oh, boy. And he and he says, What's that data? 

Okay. Apparently doesn't seem fair. It probably probably thinking bag. It probably wasn't. 

But yet he would he would honor. He said, if we if we elected Well, I think maybe put some caveats. 

There are some who was taking over Did he tell you who will be taking over here? 

Well, there was a he was he was assistant, but he was sort of running the thing. 

There was a man by the name of Roy MacArthur who is the BI team and hit Scott for the football league and letting you know, he would be stepping in. 

Well, he he was going to continue to be the head basketball coach. 

So having made our selection in May, you were being invited to tell it again or in August. Here we ought to make this decision again. So. I'll say that decision MAY was easy compared to the station that we had in August. 

It's really not fair to have to cut you youngsters in Annapolis what a rents know, because you could be really attached to your coats. 

Someone who put himself in a line for this same time, you'd already had a taste of what was going on here? 

Exactly. 

And I'm not going to speak for Jim Joe because they they were ties when when we were all three going to Vanderbilt. Didn't go back and forth on yes. Yes. And how close did you come? 

Very close. Very close. 

And we we we went through the whole we got so that I remember we had we had pluses and minuses on blue line for you guys. 

And I think maybe the final decision, there are two things I think that influences is the first-quarter. You already have that under your belt. We add that on our bill. And I they all 30 is love, love, love that. You are already captured by that, right? 

Right. You could do it. He did. Wow. And secondly, we we were all three O's were competitors. We we play we play the game pretty. 

Are you play too hard to win, to win and to the best of our ability and the thought of sitting out a year, yeah, that would have been any non playing was yeah, that would have been anybody wrath. It kept coming back to that. We said, Look, we're going to say you take your chances and stayed. We did. All three O's. Never looked back. Ever look back. And I can tell you sitting here today that that was right for me. 

Well, it was the right decision for Georgia Tech. Question about that. 

So yeah, it was a good marriage. It was a good seal. That was kind of a rocky start for you all. I mean, in that you had we've been given the world and then had the red pulled out from under you. 

But did you really flexible? 

It worked out fine. Mr. Poke left and you survived? 

We did survive. Was a tough but unfortunately and I'm going to be very honest, very candid here. 

The basketball program at Georgia Tech never advanced beyond or it did not advance to the expectations that Bill Alexander and coach who became athletic director. And there's some some at some point in there. And Bob Polk had visions of it becoming, so they they lost in him going. 

His, his leaving Georgia kind of hampered what George and I don't basketball loss with Bob leaving because we had some tremendous basketball talent and you had so that plan that was underutilized, let's put it that way. It was amazing. It just never did. It was socialized but it never really took off? 

Yes. Yes. Yes. 

But you all became rambling Rx if you dug in your bath? 

That's right. 

And the rest of it was just the way it happened to be that you started off on a real row and began to play freshman basketball with a vengeance? 

Yes. Yes. Yes. Real joy ride, right? 

Mickey, let's split. Talk about the impact of your coming south. And Atlanta was 400 miles south of home. 

And your family, How did your parents feel? 

How did your mama handle you come in? 

It's interesting. 

But I know my day I was very proud. And quite honestly, Georgia Tech, an opportunity. To go to Georgia Tech would have been the style of the realm of the financial capabilities. And they have a scholarship. 

I think they were they knew my athletic ability would probably get me a scholarship because they'd seen the letters that came in from numerous colleges and all. 

But Georgia Tech was, was prestigious. And they recognize that and they were happy for me. They say, I know my dad was now my mother. She, she marched a little different drumbeat. She was the she was very outgoing, very happy person. Never met a stranger. She she just she loved life and she thought that 400 miles. Yeah. Especially her baby. That she write to you? 

Oh, yes. Yes, yes, yes. Quite often. And it wasn't so common for people to have long distance phone calls and now it's time. 

So reading was the primary way of keeping in touch, right? 

Yes. She was a faithful letter writer and she's concerned about what's going on. 

But if I might digress just a minute for a story, please. We lived in Cloudman dormitory. 

Now, if I can describe club and dormitory and 940 seven, in the as you walked in the entrance of club and dormitory, there was one telephone booth. And I can't tell you how many athlete it was. The athletic dark brown glob MIMD arm is the athletic darn. One telephone was in the hall. 

So my mother was constantly complaining. 

It was always busy 0 because she was trying to Kai Shi and we'll try to call and she would say now you have to call me. You have to call me because I can never get through. Can you imagine could tell a student today that there was one Del Valle. Yeah, I got a whole life of their own. 

And then there was always there are some pre Madonna's that lived in the Cloud but dormitory like play Matthews and bow, a psych sues the class of 50. 

And all these guys, all these football players that had a cadre of beautiful young girls calling every night. 

It was hard for an all round ball or they get a call through even from his mom here in the middle of the night, we're going to see well, but anything that's frustrated by that she was dressed data I remember talking about. It is interesting how we communicated back them with one, yeah. Sometimes a call would go to the athletic office, you know, and we'd get a message. Call your mother. Called literal in those days because she was harvester worrying and fascination. We write the right thing. Hey, did you ever hear? 

Yes. Yes. Occasionally came down to some games. My mother and father and Jim's mother and father were also very good that night, yes. 

So they could share the ride down. 

So and of course, they were all here for graduation. That was a whole day's drive in those days. Oh, yeah. The roads weren't everything easily holdings dry? 

Yes. People didn't just go out to the airport and fly anywhere either. It's a mosaic, very jagged and that's very different time. And you had to negotiate mon eagle up in Tennessee. And it was about a 67 Mao winding trip up the mountain and then back down. Back down. Yeah, there was. 

But going back to my mother, she she like I say, love life and she gave me my luck. She gave here lot. She did. She was she was very lucky person. She she loved the play cards, bingo. She she she she wouldn't a gambler. She wanted a big better. 

But she just like the competition and the fun. Yes. My my sister's boyfriend's would would come in to pick glory up. And if Glory one ready? 

My mother had him at the table playing game again. Rami and Gloria first all time. Mother took their show mine. She she she she really was. And so I People, people have told me all through my life is Mickey or your ears as lucky. You're a very lucky guy. And I said I am, but I get it naturally. I get it from other things to do. 

And if I could describe her philosophy of life, it was with with this outgoing personality and her her interaction with people. She she always thought that you'll ever wants to while you ought to take a chance. Because you could be walking around unlucky and never know what. That's like that for SAP to. 

So she urged you to reach for the golden ring? 

Yes. In ever now. 

So I had I had a mother's philosophy of lock in, taking a chance going for and my dad's influence of hard work, hard work, and never accepting. Anything less than you're capable. Those two, when you blend those together. I'm very lucky. You hit the 0, everything going your way. And just how did you end up that first summer in school academically. 

Now, let's talk about the grades. You did well. Yes. Okay. 

So you are ready for fall? 

Yes. When the rest of the freshmen all came streaming in. 

Now, did athletes have to wear red hats than we did? 

And I have Marat had you watch, they'll have it. It's right there. At home and all of us. Uh-huh. And what what was life like? 

How how did we settle into what we do? 

Didn't just play basketball. You also went out for baseball. 

You went out for dare I say every single opportunity that could rapidly be position under your name and the year book there has to be 15 or 18 things. 

So you do everything why you are here? 

How did you manage it? 

Well, you know, i'm I'm going go back again and be try to be as as the analytical about that question as I possibly can. And I really think there is some Genesis to it. The fact that I didn't fulfill my expectations in the basketball arena, rarely. 

So that audit and and I I arrives at this through the years, Maryland, not not something that I, I decided back in in 1949 or 48 that but over time you'll come to the sensor. 

We, since we were really the best basketball team, even in the Southeastern Conference, that I'm, that I'm going to get my satisfaction by achievements, so to say, and other outlets. 

But looking back on that, that really spurred you to get involved? 

Yes. And I was but it was my nature to because I was active in high school. 

So in your everywhere do an MRI. 

But you still manage to keep the grades that because you rather let's do sell you were doing really great. Yes. 

And was was I remember being Griffin column in in the in the spring and the spring of 47 model my last year, which was a which was an interesting quarter because I had the summer. They said 47 nochmal name. I don't want one. Yes. Thank you very much. Yeah. 

He he told me that he had gotten some the information from the registrar that if I had certain grades in these three subjects that I was taking my spring year, that I there'd be no question that I would be over the 3.3 and would graduate with honor. And so he really challenged me in order not to not mess up. 

Now, no. Not this last quarter was nine hours. You only take an INR. 

So it's like you want to alert, Don't let him. 

So I appreciate that. 

But that's kind of man. He was he feared that he cared. He was looking after one individual when he add 1000 to be concerned about than I do appreciate that. And fortunately, you didn't you're doing that. 

You have him giving your best as you said, last me, they stood with you the whole of the head then I had a little help from from the head of the English department, Glen rainy know it was Dr. Walker. Dr. Walker. I think that was Dr. Walker. P. I was taking an elective from him. It was a literature class. 

And he he asked me if he was signing projects for this class, you know, certain certain books to read, no. And he got this me told oh, class. He said Look, he says most of you are juniors and seniors and he says, I don't give a right up front. 

Yeah, that's a challenge, he says, But, but you can get a good grade in this class if you read the books, sign and you do a book report, a book review on the book. 

One of these one of these half a dozen or more books that he was assigning and do a in-depth book review on it. 

So that's what that's that's fine. You know. I by the way, he was a fraternity brother my head. 

So I thought, well, I'll lose, use every angle I can get an a. I wrote this book. I still have it at all. The gosh, came out a minus. I didn't give you a name. I couldn't get them to do the minus. It probably does. A funny how their way. 

Some professors that were like that, that just kinda had these weird little thing I know is interesting. 

But of all the things you did get involved with, I know one of them you are near and dear to your heart was the random rec club. Yes, I love being part of that because it was such a rich tradition at Georgia Tech. Plus end. And the mission of the RAM and rec Grove was to support school spirit. And I thought all through having come out of high school with a great school spirit. Always felt like there was something a little lacking in the school spirit attack. And and I think it was the times, the times for the cell I'm on tour, really difficult. And we need to say to that at that time, the GI Bill had gone into effect. And so you were, the campus was swarmed with returning veterans. In addition to all you youngsters that are here? 

Yes. Shams. 

A great deal of these people were married, which was urinary housing and very atypical of the college experience. Exactly. And so maybe you're right. The Times did make things not as if collegiate, yeah. Yeah. 

As your image would be in, you set your mind to make and that better one or that one of the reasons why the RAM, or they are always the most enthusiastic group, you know, re kind of gung-ho for Georgia Tech. And and I like that. 

I could identify with that and share those those and that's an affiliation you've stayed with her all these years? 

Yes, I have. Yeah. Army about going out for another one. Going going back to the, to the times. The flip side of perhaps a little less school sphere than collegiality. The rah, rah. Because of the impact of that. 

I can't tell you how influential and how positive the veterans who were at Georgia Tech, what a positive influence they had on someone like me. I enroll in Georgia Tech when I was 17 years old. I was an 18 until July of 47. 

So it was like You've heard the expression, the rising tide lifts all boats. Yeah. 

Well, the veterans lifted all boats. All students. 

So you learned from them. It was an awesome time to be going to Georgia Tech. The the the academic environment really geared themselves to the veterans. And we were treated like we were we I'm talking about yeah. Yeah. N1, the young ones, the 17 years old and the 18 year. We were treated like adults. And it was a good thing. It was a very positive thing. Give you an example. I'm sitting in a management class. And back then, the, I guess the preferred approach to education from the professor's lecture. 

And your boy, whereby they take notes like crazy and at the end they are, the bell whistle would go all feudal and you get your assignment. And maybe there were two or three questions through the whole period though. That five minutes, it was mostly luxury. Did the lecture. While I'm sitting in this management class. And this professor's, I'm sorry, can't tell you, Hey, I can't remember. 

So this will, this hand goes up. This fellow's subtle laid back. He says, Professor presser of sorrow of stone. Interrupting. 

Yeah, he said, you know, he says all this theory that you have an expanding now for Daisy says that textbook stuff, he says the real world does work. He's challenging professors. Just look the stand. And he says I fill it goes on. He says, I was a colonel in the Air Force. 

Couple thousand people in, under my command, he says, and he says, I believe we lost the war, had spoken nearly all this. Edi use the couple of choice words, you know, and, and the professor was, was mortified. I mean, he was done. In fact gave us the assignment for the next class in sort of dismissed. 

Well thereby the sort of swarmed around the kernel and said, Hey, way to go. 

But because it was a big dose of reality, their high exactly. 

But I want to tell you that the next, the next class, when that professor walked in, he had, he had been thinking about this, I guess. And to his credit, he came in and sort of apologized to the class for abruptly closing it on. And he says, You know, I've been thinking about this. 

And I have a feeling that in this class here that we have so much expertise that I'm not tapping that been expanding on the theory. 

And if you all agree, what I would like to do is to open this class more to a give-and-take presentations of what some of you have experienced. More of a case approach if we can, he says, and I think we'll all benefit in the long run. Wow, that's a real Come around. One, that, one that amaze them rarely was. 

So into the face of reality. These people works theory. Yeah. 

Well, can you get to be a carnal unless you know what you're doing while I'm sitting in there. Maybe a soft I heard x2 and y2. And I'm looking at this guy, isn't I'm 20 years old and he's probably 29 or 30. Yeah. The he'd lived a whole big long head. A head. Oh, that's great. 

That you recognize that that was an advantage to you to have that exposure was really pretty decent TO I mean, they tolerated the younger ones. Yes. Yes, I'm mentoring and 22 fairly long, but I'm not so sure that tech has ever gone back. I don't know. 

I don't think it has, I think too, that the Germantown lecture mentality, right? 

As a turning point for everybody. Yeah. 

And I, I have a feeling and talking to some of the president Scholars at the presence dinners and things like that, that the tech is is an entirely different the educational environment and it was very hands-on environment. Yes. Yes. Yet to be earlier. And the problems the problem solver from the beginning has been prying eyes on it. I don't think our faculty looks on incoming freshmen as enemy. The enemy they are, are no, you're absolutely right. Things are changed. And their expectations or they're not going to they're not going to nurse maid them. 

Now you gotta be an adult. You have to be an adult and then solve for the men. Tell me about baseball. Did you go out for me so I think I read yes. Yes. Uh-huh. Play played baseball for two years. And when that fun Oh, yeah, I love that. He applied for fun. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Fifa played to window, of course. 

But they spoke a time and having a good time. 

And then sophomore year, spring of my sophomore year, I guess, to play baseball one year, the spring my sophomore year, Coach McArthur Institute, It's bring basketball practice that took that away, that knock this out of playing anymore baseball. 

So I later one year in baseball, in four years in investing in basketball. Oh, yeah. What about your social life? 

Did you have one? 

Oh, yeah. Yeah. I'll talk about that. What were people doing for fun and 47 or 4040 dive, big dances going on. Then we add after the World War, there's still dances after the war? 

Yes. Yes. And I was pledged Sigma Chi, and that was always a social opportunity at the Sigma Chi house. Maybe the best way I can describe the social life. 

The tech was one time when my mother did get through and we were chatting and she said someone, but are you being you enjoy yet? 

Yeah. Are you dating? 

And I said, Oh Mama said, Let me tell you. 

They're there exist at Lana is this Mecca? 

For example, I was down at five points the other day around lunchtime and hustle more good-looking young women in in downtown Atlanta all my lunch hour than I have. And then maybe several years, Jasper, She's already launched and eyes at all. I didn't the law, it just did. There were always there there were a lot of now we were not co-ed then. Of course the edge of it. 

But I have a feeling that Atlanta is like, is this the powerful magnet that draws these beautiful girl, South Georgia and Alabama into Atlanta door and become nurses and all. 

So there was never a shortage. 

And whenever Lady date to dance with and take to the movies, movies weren't a big deal still in the late forties and early fifties, right? 

I remember the fellows they Agnes Scott, girls not, you know, didn't I didn't. Yeah. One of the problems back then, it's hard to understand is transportation. It's hard by today's standards, by today's standards. 

Friday since there were just a few people that had card the veterans, some of them that they had their own lives to they weren't they are telling you that they did. 

And then we always had a cadre of Atlanta students that had their family cars occasionally and that help at all. 

And they were all I was I was always so this, this wonder at the generosity of the tech student that sharing, sharing car, you know, the, the Atlantic Fellows with fewer experience, Southern hospitality every inch of the way, right? 

Really, That's exactly, that's a good way to put it because they were just really isn't a map, It's a real thing. It's true. Goal is local native land and people are very, very hospitable. Welcome, That is true. 

Tell me the story about Your senior year, when you invited the girls to come and tell me that whole starting from Stephen scholar or how many about Steven's guys? 

Well, how did that come about in the first place? 

The, the Stephen's college is a very exclusive girls College in Columbia, Missouri, which is, which is somewhat adjacent to the University of Missouri at Columbia, but separate campus at all. 

But it it's been, I guess it's been knowing is sort of an elitist girls school, Stephen's college. 

Well, in 19, 50 or 50 early 51, perhaps. No, I guess it was it was latter part of 50 maybe that fall of 50. 

They elected Georgia Tech as the campus, the boys at Georgia Tech that they would most like to be associated with. 

So I got a call from a friend of mine from Jasper, the Schneider, who was a student at Stevens college. And she was telling me about the about this election of Georgia Tech. Though. In the meantime, I wasn't aware of this, but Betty who was telling me about this association. 

So Stephen's got halides and Georgia Tech. 

The the administrations are two administrations had been talking about getting some sort of a spring visit together with Steve coming here. Stephen's coming here. 

So telling and Bruce sounds one of our classmates, 51 classmates was President Student Council, and it was kicked to the student council that the Stevens student body or the wood would like to come to Georgia Tech and it happened in the date was set. I get another call from that is Schneider saying mickey out, I'm not going be able make that trip. 

But my roommate is her name is still a dirge is and I want you to somehow some way when you assign dates for the all these is a girl's going from Stephen college that you And Tilly be dates for the evening. 

So I so I think I can handle that. 

And I have a picture of our entering the gymnasium that night when we had a bay and this guy can cancel, knock themselves out there, I think. Yeah, we did. There. There are some very attractive young lady. Much as I'm Kelly, yes, indeed. You did fine. Have a wonderful time. We had a good evening. We add a nice night, come by bus or train or why? 

They bust and many of them were there. Seems like there is 60 or so, like three buses, my word, and they pull up the alumni head. Han Feizi feels as though he was, he was active in it at the ICC in her Bradshaw. Lot of error and brand bruce of course. 

But anyway, we had we had assigned remains. And so the girl would step off. And so one of the faculty advisors from, from Stevens would call the girl's name on Tilly dirt. Like a wrap up and I thought it was fun. And they might have had a just a Cinderella. We'd add them to. It was a fun weekend. 

Your question about did you put them up on campus somewhere? 

They stayed at one of the downtown hotel. Oh, really? 

Yes. When they venture that I'll turn to meet, yeah. And then it seems to me that they were also going on further south to another college. 

Well, that was a heck of a good child friendly spring break for their meal and a break for us. When you look back at those times, Mickey, we've been sharing the mom morning. 

The whole experience for you was an excellent experience, even though as you said, the basketball program didn't live up to your expectations. 

Overall, Georgia Tech lived up to your expectations without a doubt, in fact exceeded your expectations? 

Yeah, it was a great Yeah. It had a greater impact on your life. You mentioned that George Griffin was memorable. That took time out for you? 

Yes. Did you find any other mentors on this campus? 

Were there any other professors that oh, yes. Yes. Yes. I mentioned Dr. Walker and English department. He I would see him at the fraternity house. In fact, I think he was sorry and charge the night that I was initiated into the Sigma Chi. 

And so I I can't I can't say that I had a real close relationship, but when I was in the English department and I would see him, we would stop and talk in the hall. He was friendly to you. He was fairly, Hey, I start things recalling. 

Did you ever have any contact with Dan Smith after you that you're just seeing it from time to time 0 as the stature of that man in the department. And he would, he was a very, very intelligent man occurred. 

But he would he would tutor the athletes how, yeah. I mean, it was forever here going. Just awesome. 

The time that he spent with the student athlete, he followed up with you if he saw you, he was receptive to yours? 

Yeah. 

You were made to her walker, right? 

There was a there was a man and the professor in the Industrial Management Department that I accused him of being from Indiana. I accused him of being from Indiana because he loved basketball. And NEA they tell by the Hoosier, not basketball. 

And, you know, well, I'm sure anyone from Indiana, but back then in the late 40s, Professor Fred, when was the faculty advisor, The Athletic Board. 

But he really did have a preference for basketball and he he loves he loves basketball. And we were the beneficiaries of that. Because he liked to go on the trips as faculty advisor. He would he would he would go on these trips with us. 

And of course, I was in his department, but he was not head of the department then a man by the name of Dennis and what's far remember correctly, was hit was a dean. 

And I've often said that I got my Industrial Management agree on a train between Atlanta and New Orleans. And I see you're curling your eyes to tear down that turn. No, I wouldn't being tutored happened. 

We were going to New Orleans to play two lane and the mode of transportation back that was with the with the varsity basketball team was we'd have you you drive it's rentals for the sharp rides to Athens, to Tuscaloosa, or even to Gainesville, Florida. 

It was a car ride to New Orleans, Louisville, Kentucky to play Louisville or Lexington, Kentucky to play Kentucky. 

We would go on a Pullman overnight poem and well, we got on the plane, on the train about six o'clock somewhere in the evening. And we're heading to New Orleans to play two lane. And as we get on, professor when gets on. And what unusual for him to be on a, on a trip. We would get all settled in our car, and then we go into the dining room dining car and have dinner. And then we migrate back to the to the car that we were assigned to. 

Well, I'm House after dinner, I'm sitting there chatting and Professor when walks in and says, Becky, mind if I sit with you and I said, have a seat, professor. And WeChat this at all. Robin. And a sort of a law I guess. And he reaches down into his briefcase and picks out of this briefcase a paperback novel. And it's a Zane Grey Western Berlin novel. 

And he's sitting there and I get pretty quiet, I'm sorry, little embarrassed that I didn't have of industrial management tool for missed opportunity heads-up piece. He starts. This book, and he's turning these pages almost like it was a mechanical timing. And these pages, we're turning this one after another. Was the speed drinking? 

Yes. And finally, I couldn't take it anymore. Just say I said Professor. Are you just looking at the pictures in the book? 

Are you reading that book? 

He laughed. He lies all make ethers. 

Ii said, during the war, I was in the Pentagon and I was in charge of, of military information and education. And he says at one of the things that I was fortunate enough to pick up on was speed reading. And I said, You mean to tell me you're reading that book and he's and he says, oh, yes, yes, yes. He says I am. 

And I mean, And it was it was a rhythm that he had and he was just this go and write down that those two pages, turning the page. And I said, Well that's fascinating. 

And he said when he says, there are some things that you can really speed read, he says like these Westerns, he says, They're pretty easy reading. 

He says, Sometimes when you get into the more technical material, you have to be careful about speed 3D. And he gives me the lecture about speed regime. And he says, but even these Westerns have a Morrow, have a lesson. And I said, Oh, he says Yes. 

Are you interested in Western? 

And I said, well, you know, growing up that was about the only movie Saturday afternoon you saw were the Westerns. 

And he says, well, if you recall, he says The the share in these Westerns is always the fastest GUN in town. 

And as a yeah, I agree with and he said Now he says, You've notice if you've seen any of the movies and, and also on television, you know, the early tail and television That was all it was all enveloped. It was cowboy movies. He said If you if you if you recall, he said the fastest GUN was was a share. 

And also it says if those shares live to a ripe old age, was able to retire to the ranch and enjoy the rest of the live. What they did Mackey? 

No. 

He says, Well, they never got into a shoot with a faster gun who they knew sooner or later was going to ride into town. Though he, so that's first lesson. Sooner or later, a faster gun is to walk in is going to ride into town as of yet. Yeah, I can I can understand that. 

And he said Now, remember that those sheriffs who live a long life who retire to the ranch, they don't get into a shootout with these faster guns. And I said, Well, yeah, but hot, hot, hot, hot. 

How did they avoid the shoe dots? 

There seems to be a shoot odd going on almost every page of that book. And in the movie he says, the smart ones, depth you ties fast. Uh-huh. That was my Industrial Management agree. Halfway between that allow you believe that and you can apply that philosophy the rest of your life. 

I can't tell you how many times that data you remembered that it from that lesson because I knew in my management career of 30 years, I can't tell you how many people I deputy and survived to enjoy the ride for the latest year that you actually internalize that message and kept it. Which even at some, that's amazing. He really did T2 elastic to hit. 

So he was a good mentor for you and me really well. Arctic line man named the billing, if I'm not mistaken. Yeah, industrial management, building bread when billing. I think I'm pretty soon. And there is the windmill thing is still spent. It's still good. Okay. Because he was fine, Fine. Professor, fine teacher and a fine man. And love basketball. And let's go back to basketball. It. And that you played off or year? 

Yes. And as chimp-like, Wiki, Wow, Humira NGO or in joking here. And you all had a big time playing. 

But Just never got to the big blight. She thought you were going to get to what became right. That is it's at the schedule. It wasn't progressive enough or oh, no, no, no. It was it was a chemistry. 

And i've I've concentrated on Joe keener and Jim fridge because we all came together at the same time. 

But we own this 51 team. We had very Bunker who came up from Augusta, and Benny register who came from Columbus, Georgia. 

Then his dad was a high school basketball coach and Columbus for many years and up ultimately became the mayor of Columbus. Mr. register for many years. 

Berry was a great athlete from August forward on the team in Benny was set shot too, and as such are less than he could pop them from anywhere. Then we had Mel though, from Florida, Illinois, who has a class of 51. And he was he was he was a pioneer in basketball. 

So what you're saying is that this was a unique group of talent that was in one place at one time? 

Exactly. That should have been better. Yeah. 

As far as the records were answer I was told by the set shot was the two-handed such out any any distance from the basket? 

People shot to hand, et cetera. 

Mel DO I don't know who taught him who is high school coach was but he and coaches wouldn't let you shoot one hand. I mean, it was sort of an ALT know in order to shoot one hand. 

But males coach, encouraged or let him shoot one handed. And he was a Dead-Eye. Mel is in the Hall of Fame here. Basketball Hall of Fame score over 1000 points back when there were no three-point play. With our layout. Do it the hard way. 

But I can't tell you how great it was to lead a fast break down the floor. I can get you can't really see it. And if we're passing the ball back forth and I see Mel dole on the wing. 

You know, it's going to have and man, I'll make that one next phase to the left and whip that ball over to the right to mail though. And he catches that ball. Anys is left, toe and right TO inch slyly together. A little pigeon towed and up, he'd go switch sugar. Isn't that hope? 

And behind us we had talent. Go or TTR Olmstead was class 50 to use an outstanding guard. Pete silas coming on. 

Now you all know Pete, he's done some great things. Hemorrhage already a very tall. We had Bill Klein from North Carolina who was like 68 or nine, a center piece Silas was was a guard. I mean forward and played center also. It really well, It's a beautiful thing. 

But we, we had talent. 

We didn't have the chemistry that was, was developed and it needed a galvanizing fact or someone that would have made it into the Atlantic. 

One will be honest with you, we needed the basketball coach rather than a B team football coach and head Scott for football, we needed a basketball. You would have had you had you had had a baby Commons or the guy we have today? 

Paul Hewitt. Paul Hewitt, you would have been or are even awake hide or even a white car? 

Yeah. He had his day. You'd want a pity that it just was that gap in time there, huh? 

Yes. Yes. 

That spring spring of 47, Bobby Dodd was disappointed also in the under utilization of the basketball talent. And all he had just taken over his head coach of the football team. That's right. 

But he's also athletic director. And he call me. He, he, he, he was one of the first coaches that relied upon his athletes for input. 

I mean, he, he actually respected what your Hayes aspect that we really did and he did it quite often. I have other examples where he did this. He call me and we chatted for seeing like an awful long time. And I, and again, I get this words, get coached out. Theme in my head. I were alive. I don't know why I kid has all his life. 

He wanted to talk about the basketball program and want to know what you thought about it? 

He wanted to know what I thought about it. And we talked for a couple hours. And I told him what I thought about it. 

And I told him what I had an experience in my four years at Georgia Tech with the upcoming stature of college basketball in the South. 

In 194748, right after the war, North Carolina State decided that they were going to be not the doormat or the ACC basketball. North Carolina had a good program. Duke had a good program, but North Carolina was going to be the best. 

And what did they do? 

They went to Indiana, got a very successful high school basketball coach by the name of every case. In hard him gave him the the facilities and the finances to develop a basketball program. They built Reynolds Coliseum over there. And in 940 nine, Georgia Tech was invited to the first dixie classic in Reynolds Coliseum. And we get over there and we play very well, go to some final. 

But on this north Carolina State team was like going home at **** Dickey, Sam read, Sam ran Zeno. I thought the Indiana crowd up. What case do he brought with him from, from, from, from Indiana. And you know, the rest of the story has a saying about ACC basketball. At the millennium. The Raleigh newspaper, head of a two-page article on the father of ACC basketball. 

And they voted every case as the basketball coach of the shot obviously with a very good decision that they are in fact a right tibia technically that have two lane cliff wells right out to Indiana, took over the lane program. 

And I talk I have I have a lot of here, a host and I've told you about heroes, heroes login, Big Pharma. We go to line and it's all County Indiana boys down there. 

And Jim breathy is the center, not geographies from Jack from Washington, Indiana, 30 miles from Jasper. 

And he was the center on the Washington High School hatchets basketball team and won back-to-back state titles. And in 40 and 41, he goes into the service for 45 years. 

And where does he end up after it comes out of service to children play? 

And here I am, play it I guess here WHO from Indiana generates the same thing to line? 

J. Mccrae, who was an all American at Indiana University back in the late 30s or ends up at LSU. And they have a tremendous program developing at LSU. 

So I'm telling you like everybody was on the ball except Georgia Tech, Vanderbilt vow poke up at Vanderbilt know, doing a great job. Aid offer up was that it was the B out the ultimate Kentucky. 

So I'm telling coach and a coach, a, DOD this what's happening at these other schools. 

And he sees the very interested and he said, oh boy, he says That's, so what you're saying is, when we need a dedicated coach in basketball, And I I agreed with that. 

Well, he thanked me and about three weeks later he called me back and he said that he'd been working with the athletic bore and he had outlined a program to bring in a top-notch basketball folk basketball coach. 

But that it was his time at Tech when finances we're really entering in. Dad dad had an DOD was a networker. He he would pick up the telephone and he'd call the at AD at North Carolina State. 

Hey, what do you do? 

How do you handle this case thing? 

Or he just networked and he found out what was going on. And he found out also what it cost to do a program like this. 

So, and they weren't, they didn't have this mind to put to it that is that Lean is more or less telling you, right? 

So he asked me again my thoughts and I told him at that aren't under the circumstances. 

That is our athletic director, that there was one man on the Tech campus that could devote himself to basketball and that he would be accepted by the players, the juniors to be, the senior, junior, seniors to be, and the upperclassmen that were coming in and that think that he would, would do the necessary development. 

He go to the Coaches Clinic, see do everything to make Georgia Tech a viable, well-respected basketball program. And that was why I say he doesn't want to put the already learned why. I'm I'm not going to take credit for that. 

But you didn't know didn't do it. Maybe I'll only what they didn't know. 

But I'm that I'm going to say that I'm thankful that that coach dad had enough. We're back for for me to ask me what I thought. And that's all I'm going to take credit for. Their fair share. A lot of other considerations. 

I'm sure the words but WACC took the job and it was great to know that there would have been that student confidence in him. I'm sure that meant a lot. Yes. And a lot to whacked. Yes. We were talking about CodeWriter and I have a tremendous amount of respect for for whack. He took over this basketball program and 51 and really, I think did an outstanding job. You can you can look at the rector records through the years that coaches at the helm. And he was a fine man. Roger kaiser, who was our first all American basketball player. And by the way from Dale, Indiana. 

Roger, as quoted many years ago, saying that co charter was a was a father that we all had at at tech. Thing to say yes, that father we didn't have. He was the resident he was a resident dad. 

And and you know, what that says to me is that coach higher dimensions were far greater than basketball coach. He believed in, he believed in the student athlete. He he wouldn't coach that, thought that he was in the entertainment business. 

Like a lot of coaches think they are now co charter to this day and he was 89 years old on July the tenth. To this day would say that the academics is more important and always came? 

Yes. Yes. And he truly valued his own Georgia Tech degree. He worked hard for it. 

He never really got over the miracle of having kept saying, I don't know how a country boy like me got here. 

Yeah, he never got over that miracle of of coming to tech and having the option and he was so grateful to Alexander forgiving him the actions and, uh, yeah. Right. And you wouldn't know it from gawk in a coach, our Heider, but he was. Excellent athlete. He was a tremendous baseball player and a tremendous basketball and natural a natural athlete. He really was very much like mad and South. Dad was always trim in a natural everything. 

So I think you can tell that I have a great effect and great affection for Coach Heider. And it's amazing. Things seem to come around. Manager of the telephone company in Paducah, Kentucky and 950 five. And I get a call from Coach iter. And he says, Mickey, we're about to jar some money loose at Georgia Tech. 

So all that's encouraged me and he says, I'm talking about the basketball program and that will good coach. He says, we're going to be able to hire an assistant coach. And I'd like for you to be at 0 my in that something. Oh, my he came around and came around fast. 55. That was only four years after you were out? 

Yeah. And you had to make a big decision? 

Another big decision. 

So I wrestle with it. An auto him Coach. It would be an honor. 

Now has bachelor, they're not married and Footloose, fancy free. I said that the interested. About three weeks later I get this call. Go charter. He said, Nike says I talk to coach. And he thought it was an excellent selection. 

But he wanted to talk to the folks at Southern Bell. And after talking to Southern Bell, they had said that that I had a a a future with them. And they were putting what was best for you ahead of the game. That's pretty incredible story, Nikki? 

Yes. 

So they went over your head to see whether you had a future there and add and because the company went to bat for you, they didn't give you the job. That's what you're telling me. A coach told Coach eye to look elsewhere. Goodness sakes, saved your front and your head. 

That's that's documented by the way, on some of the things I told you earlier and on that tape, That's an amazing story. 

It isn't a phased from yourself because your druthers where you would've come home in a heartbeat? 

In a heartbeat? 

I think back on that, I've had many calls from Georgia Tech and including year. And I really can't say that. I never say no, I don't believe I've ever said no. Diagram now. 

So anyway, hey, I'm proud of that. That I'd take that extra step and get out. 

Yeah, what was best for you? 

In other words, they didn't know they were going to be offering you a brilliant future. They would just wanted you for the here and now at that time, they know in a yes. 

And in addition to that, they said that the potential was there for it to be knowing that you would go ahead and climbing the rungs telephone and and I I did. I was responsible job with them. You had to go back. And I had a great career. Amazing, isn't it? 

They were looking out for you. And I and I have to give Southern belle a great deal of Southern Bell and South Central Bell. And then Bell saw a great deal of credit for, for my development. Given B, the opera was right there, had, had the sense to know you. We're going to go a long way, Mickey. 

And isn't it nice that I recall when I retired, I told my folks there in Kentucky, you and I return that I sometimes retiring was was like an out of body experience. Have you ever had an out-of-body Higgs Fahrenheit and I can hit the Yann LeCun back. 

I like my dad had one that he was but 91, a little over 90 when he passed away in any, he had eaten in great health all the way until right towards the end. 

And he had a setback and I visited him a couple of times in hospital and he was reluctant to talk about it. 

But at 1, he said he said McGowan, I was almost a gardener. As a what do you mean? 

I call my dad humor. He had a nickname and he says, well, he said he's always go on. He said In fact, he said that I saw bright lights. He said, I saw these beautiful, beautiful flowers in this pasture. He's never seen green. As, green as these pastures. Worrisome favorites, beautiful. And I said, Well, tell me more about this. You know, I, I really started got interested. 

And he said, well, he said, I was just sort of seems like I was a sort of floating in there, you know. And he says within then it was gone and then any change the subject. 

So I'm telling this one, I'm retiring. Total the stories that the retiring is sort of like having an out-of-body experience. These I see. Having made the decision to retire, I'm sort of floating. 

I look and I looked down and I see, I see these beautiful past year, these bright lights, and I see y'all working. 

But let me tell you something. 

If you have to war, you can't do it at a better place on that south to do atlas. That great. That's great. Tell me, Mickey, Do you remember your graduation? 

Yes, I do. He has a real milestone, of course, graduating from Georgia Tech. And where did it happen? 

Where they hold a day? 

It was in the stadium. Fiber cotton were a huge class, probably weren't Champ. I don't, it seems to me like the fifties, early 50s, where will they probably soul has 1000 men. I don't know. I don't know what we had before because the veterans were graduating. As true. 

Answers that had come through and say you had a lot more student body had increased and multiply? 

Yes. 

So did your mom and dad come down for graduates? 

Yes, they did. This. The fridges we're here. L is wonderful and I was proud. They were for us the euphoric time really. It was wonderful. And when the expectation on your parent's part to come in home. 

Well, that's an interesting story in itself. 

Why do you say Coming Home? 

Hub view, you say that going back to Kentucky to Jasper, How wasn't coming back to jasper? 

The end, they didn't have the expectation that you were done? 

I had I had several interviews and I mean, I say this, I've said there's quite often eternally grateful to General Electric and IBM. I had interviews and in New York with those two companies. And I'll tell you, being a country where you want it. Yeah. I did it with a far to the northeast. And so DNA jags. 

When I came back from these interviews, I told him that I really had my affection for Atlanta, had girl and a force than I thought I want to stay I want to stay here. 

And he says, well, if you have this offer from Southern Bell and chances are you stay in Atlanta, you know? 

Well, chances are there is a vice president of Personnel. Mark would remember his name, that he he never did say that I would stay in Atlanta. 

Well, but its headquarters and I probably will. 

So I I set I set my acceptance to Southern Bell and a week before graduation before about folks came down to graduation. I get the letter back from Mr. Marcu. 

And it was thanking me for the acceptance and they asked me to report to Louisville, Kentucky on July second, 950 haha. 

So you knew you were going to Louis? 

Said she talks and tell them that? 

I was despondent. Guy went up to Harry's bar. Remember there is no rang strictly, true. Whatever they said. 

Well, anyway, I finally got home. My mother and mothers are pretty perceptive than they right away. 

She says, when achy, what's wrong? 

And us that all nuff mock, know I can tell what's wrong, what's wrong. And I says, all Southern Bell. 

Well, my mother was was always pretty energetic. She had heart let you finish your shoes. Oh, they don't want you to in either Nussbaum. They want me but they want me to work in Louisville, Kentucky. And there was this pause on the line and the next the next exclamation was 0, 0, 1. I think it was safe and say that, well, we weren't that much closer. That much closer, of course. 

Well, we'd think that was great. 

So I I it gave me a whole new perspective. And I guess I had I had a second choice. It would have been Louisville, Kentucky. Growing up and Jasper. Our morning newspaper was little Courier Journal. Our radio station was high par WHO AS from Louisville being only 6570 miles. 

If we had a major shopping expedition, hit went to Lily, was to Louis, they'll say You weren't going home all the all the all the baseball and basketball baseball and basketball type award. 

You know, if you if you want your division or so, would be to go to Louisville to see the low-level kernels. 

They were a triple a baseball franchise than and we we'd go to the Louisville Cardinals basketball games if there was an awning on basketballs. 

So Louisville was our was our market good place. It was that it was Sherpa with it. 

So boy, they weren't wasting any time either July second, she were to be reporting? 

Exactly. 

So you had to pack up your stuff exactly. In a sense, went home? 

In a sense. And on July the second I changed my name to Mike. Oh, because they didn't know you were making. 

It stands to reason Michael Francis will be caught bike sitting at the entrance to Southern Bell headquarters in Louisville, Kentucky. And it's like a ten in the morning. And I was supposed to report at 830, sitting in a line of chairs by the receptionist's desk. And everybody's coming in, going to the elevators. And all of a sudden the elevator door opens down the hall. And this man, blue suit, nice tie. Nice, good-looking man is walking towards me. 

So I know he's come for me. And he gets about three quarters of the way and I stand up and he says, Good morning. I'm Paul McCandless. And I stood up and I said, Ms. Callas, I'm Mike summer shy. 

Now had I think I know you've got a fat all way back there in those deep recesses. I knew I wasn't going to be a big business. Thai food. I want to make that a little bit client. 

So what it became a whole new person. 

What's interesting is that everyone in the business, community, business, your world, knows me as Mike in Jasper, mic or Mickey. And at Georgia Tech I'm Mickey. 

Well, we can understand how that works. 

Can anatomists mind it's, I thought maybe they applied that to you, but you thought of it yourself? 

And that career, was that was it going for you to stay? 

Yes. Yes. 

And tell me about well, I worked for three or four months, July through October, I guess, and then I was drafted I wanted when the invitation came. It did have that, yes. Yes. 

And you were drafted into the army, into the Marines? 

I didn't know you could get drafted into the marines during the Korean conflict. 20 percent of all draftees were assigned to the Marine Corps, has interests. It is interesting and I guess hi, I got two. Good question is a lot of people asked me a question. Who weren't you in the ROTC at Tech. 

And I I was not because after my sophomore year, the first two years are mirror we're sort of mandatory ROTC. I'm colorblind. And so I was precluded from going into advanced advanced on advanced program. 

But when we get to drafting people, we don't care that their color by barely not. And what's interesting is Jim Fresh Life, know how he wore glasses, white glove. 

So Jim and I did not take advanced the military, which was a blessing in a way for a short period of time because it gave me an opportunity to have all kinds of elective oh, my word. Yeah. Military course. Yes. You made a good use of all that to you guys? 

Yes. Yes. 

So here are your four months on the workplace and all of a sudden you're drafted. Your, your company course honored your cheer job. They knew they did the right thing and you had a lot to yes. To the monitor? 

Yes. 

Did you have to go through the horrendous Marine training? 

Them are we'll talk in Paris Island and while all other grim thing I told you earlier, **** lucky. 

Okay, where did it come in here? 

I'm at the gym and are drafted the same day here. And we go to in Annapolis reception center. And after a couple days of waiting, we're finally call up. And we're standing in this group of several 100 recruits. 

And the captain from the army comes on and says, As you know, 20 percent, That's how I remember the 20 percent of all recruits are going to the Marine Corps. And we have Lieutenant, So-and-so here from the Marine Corps. 

Are there any volunteers? 

I looked around and there were a few scrawny guys raise their hands, you know, and he took them. And then the lieutenant start walking down like can you guys over HA in front of me. He says, I submit it, get a whole. 

And he looks at Jim, Jim had his glasses on at the only way I can think of and gents escape that looked at Marine Corps and he took a look at Jim and fast. 

And so after all those years, you mentioned of being through grade school, high school, college, induction. We are part of the induction. Same time. Parris Island was full. 

Well, that was a lucky pray. Yes. Set sent me to San Diego. That was a lucky. 

But you're not going to leave the flat. That the we get this San Diego Recruit Depot and we start farming the Training Battalion. In the first, after about three days, we get it all together and we're in-line inspection. And they had us lined up current eyes. 

Now about the third or fourth than in the first column. This two or three DIs and a major Come on The inspect the troops. 

They stop at the first man and jet little bit with them past the next two or three and stop in front of me. 

And the major says, and what is your name? 

Recruit, what is your name and assets are? 

My name is Summer shy, sir. And I'm looking at him right in the eye. And he says summer shot. Sir. Yes, sir. He said you from Indiana. Sir? 

Yes, sir. And he said The Jasper. And I said sir, yes, sir. And then he sorrow, relax and he says, There was a Mickey CRM or shine at Jasper. Those are great basketball player. Did you play basketball assets, sir? 

Yes, sir. And all of sudden, we're carrying on basketball conversation. He's from Evans bill in the ad on it. I'll kinda Hoosier Indiana basketball, not any new my whole career. And he knew Joe keener his whole career. My gym for his home. And he asking questions about words for it. 

Obviously, I'm just standing around while the DI I happened to look over the major shoulder and the DI is blood red. I thought he's going to show up. And then I thought, oh, he's going to choke me. The last question that the major Torreon asked me, he said, Well. And he's called me Mickey. 

He said, How would you like to play on the on the on the marine Depot team? 

And I said, Sir, I'd like that very act that you did say that two days later. I'm on the bus going to Long Beach State College as a member of the San Diego Marine default team. Oh my word, monkey, you were lucky that was really liked. 

So my whole two years of military, you play basketball and baseball? 

Oh, they let you play baseball to my word. Emily, you just to have the honor of the of the organization play your heart out. I get that. All right. Way to do their duty. 

So I'm very proud of my military career. You know, I I kept the troops entertain. I kept their morale, allow her to California. 

Knew you were in that line up or that was just serendipitous? 

I we became pretty good friends because he was at every basketball game. 

In fact, he was a race horsing enthusiasts and we even went up to Del Mar, which is a race track 2030 miles north of San Diego. Together, when I wouldn't practice singer and flying. And we had a great relationship for six months there before he got shipped out. 

What did he know that you were there with notice now, I asked him, I said when when you stop and ask me my name as it, did, you have any idea that he says no, but we would have found you because in the in the recruiting process or the reception center, they would have kicked out my profile to because they were just some for athletes probably or whatever other specialties that might have been me. 

But as it turned out, he just happened to be in the right place at the right time and the right guy walked by, what you say it test everything out. Yeah. Way you work. It probably speed up the process by a couple of your mother was happy about that. 

But but the sea he was from Evans bill and joking or was it right the day before? 

The day before Jim French and I went in an atlas to be inducted. 

We talk to Joe and he said that he was he was also in that process and looked like he was going to be drafted in a couple of three weeks. He asked about Joe keener and I said there's a good chance that jo keener could be heading this way. Oh boy. And he said, Well, we'll look out far. For one decade. Torreon captain, a major story. It says, Guess who's here. And as it, Keeter, and he says yes, he says he'll be over practice when they are. Joe. Joe and I were on this on the San Diego Marine Lab. And that's okay. I'm very, very lucky Melon. Yeah. Yeah. Protect it. Take time. 

But that reality said Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'd go Southern Bell, Save As or two years and then they send you back to Louis XV. Elegant. And then what happens? 

Well, of after this is 195350, latter port 53, yes. And then I spent a year so in Louisville. 

And then I was sent in February of 55 to Paducah, Kentucky as a supervisor there in the office and later I was made manager there and Purdue. 

So I was in Paducah for about four years. 

So you were just kind of stepping up. 

Now, is that were you married where you met Pat? 

I met Pat in Paducah, yes. 

And telephone building was adjacent to the hand and Supply Company? 

My window in the office looked out on the hand and supply parking lot. And about ten or 1030 in the morning outlook out the Venetian blind and watch that come to work. How did she has fatter? 

She's very attractive. 

And how did we all thought meeting? 

She also dated my she was dating my roommate who arrive there though. Who when I came to Duke a room with Fred malls versions. 

So he introduce you to her, right? 

How long did you court? 

Well, Fred got transfer from Paducah. More good luck on your more Good luck, Raphael. Sorry for her. That know about two years, I guess, and then it'll United fairly long courtship. Yeah. April 30th of 960 fat are very wonderful. And then in short order for lovely children. Tell me about the children and what order? 

Patsy, first with a daughter. Daughter Michael. Sign Emily and David. 

So you got 22? 

Yes. Or good luck. Good planning. 

Now, though, we're again blast. And was the principle part of your career in Lexington? 

Louisville, Paducah? 

Lexington. Lexington was out was a general telephone company, a territory. 

So let's see. Oh, before we were married is transferred back to Louisville like sometime and 59. And then we were in patent hour in Louisville. We're Michael and we're Patsy and Michael were barn. 

And then we were transferred to Atlanta for about four years to come back, those advertising manager for Southern Bell located and hurt building. 

So we were here about four year. Emily and David were barn and of the Lamb. You have to allow native art. It really is. And then back to Louisville. We're mother. The rest of my career was was finished. 

You stayed, put them in there and adenoids so you could put down roots, build a home, saying yes? 

Yes, yes, yes. How long did your mom live and your dad your dad, does that? 

Tell me find it. Yeah. 

So he had an opportunity to see you great success? 

Yes. Your mother have equal opportunity. She passed away January first, New Year's Day, 961. 

So not very much, not to see, not know, and didn't gets another branch. The, the the real real sadness in that she would have loved those grandkids. Oh, you better believe it. Yeah. 

So that's he arrived in March and your mother had passed away. Very unfortunate. 

Now that when I was your sadness to the S1 and that you stayed with the company through many, many changes. Name changes? 

Yes. Yeah. 

I don't know if like home buyouts, but mergers and what it was it was more just consolidations back and Southern Bell split into the two companies, Southern Bell and South Central Bell. And I was course in Kentucky and the western side of the nine state area. 

So I ended up in South Central Bell with headquarters in Birmingham. And then of course we had the AT and T break. Then we became a an entity Bell saw. 

And that's what it ended up and that's what it is today annual ended up retiring as a Belgian as a general manager. Bell saw that sound. What are the children doing today? 

Tell me about the family today. Wealthy. Patsy is well, Patsy went to the University of Texas and she got into the music business. She got your dad's talent. Maybe. 

That's interesting, is a lot of people asked me that, but she she she got into the administration of it. She manage talent and well, she had an ear for it. Yeah. And she's a she's a very outgoing person? 

That's yes. 

So she's kind of a competition of her grandma? 

Yes. Thats is the oldest. And just about six months ago she announces their engagement. 

So every time you say you're going to have a new son-in-law, so later this fall, they haven't set the date yet, but I think it's before the urine am oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'll go Michael, is it went to University of Kentucky. 

And he really did take after his grandpa is a contractor, carpenter, how? 

He's very good with his hand. And he and his wife. Trish, live in Cary, North Carolina, which is a very active area. Kerry is the triangle area between Chapel Hill, Durham, and Raleigh. And it's very fast-growing area. 

So it's good good place to be in in the in the building business to see have children, two children, Taylor and Hannah. Okay. Girls. And then Emily. Emily, Sort of our freelancer, entrepreneur and the family. She went to the University of Colorado and ended up in the retail business. 

For cerebral retailing, national retailing outfits, and then open up her own health food smoothie store. Seasonal t isn t domain Main Street, but I'll go get her. 

Well, she is but it's interesting that cheese she was in that business for about four years or so. And she's doing doing very well. Until the big company they start moving in honor that have challenged US. Hey man, across the street. And then another California firm came in, and then Starbucks moved him. 

So within a period of about after about three years of her developing her business, all of a sudden they start picking it off, you know, and her staying far was difficult. 

So she took the better part. She had health foods or dietary products at all. 

So she mood and she did quite a few competitive moves that would sort of try to stay ahead of competition. She got into the organic is big in California foods. And next thing you know, Starbucks has organic coffee. 

But anyway, it was a great, great experience far. 

So now she's on the Internet with her health foods and all. 

And she's she took a job with Northwest Airlines in their reservations, the center there and California, especially the suburban tough. She lives in Venice, which is the shaft children? 

No, she's not married. Okay. And at least David and David is in Louisville, Kentucky. 

And sort of in fact, he looks a lot like me, everybody says, and lot of the family call him chips when he was young, chip off the old law. He after he graduated from University of Kentucky, took a job with the Tomoko? 

Yes. And he's account the account manager and marketing environment in Louisville. And he has three children? 

Yes. Megan and Patrick and David. 

So you have three granddaughters to grant some? 

Yes. Yes. And did ME and two to two lovely granddaughters when daughters-in-law may say, Wait, Oh yeah. Iteration men done AS this. We have a wonderful family. Nice family. 

Did anybody take after you with basketball day? 

David and Michael were athletic and they all played high school sports, football and basketball football, seeing about whether their sport but not call it. 

So you remain these college athlete and your family. Let me tell you about that. I am so thankful that I'm 72 years old. 

I played sports back when I did because it's Taylor today because they list me about 510 some program say 511 when they wanted to stretch me a little bit. 

But I'll tell you that the cheerleaders are more athletic than I. The cheerleaders or more. I'm serious. I learned that they can jump higher, run faster and better and better. 

So I'm just going to imagine today, you're going to say, when they hear what the SAT scores are of our youngsters today. The average GPA that I couldn't make it at Tech today. 

And they probably clear-eyed, everything is bigger and the exact one which has red line with where we began at the German philosopher, better, better, good, better, best. And it's nice to see that, that tech is reaching to be the best. 

But it does make us pause and say, we could do this. Nobody can take away the memories. And the memories have been really wonderful. You have so many good things to share. Tremendous, It's been a great life. I have to agree with you that you've been very, very lucky. Yes. 

Very lucky in your life, right? 

But I had a challenge with that, you know, with with with giving my luck to do any by hug him, I'll lock and my work ethic that anybody who wants to buy the wants that, you know, it's, it's a, it's a free gift. 

But if I give you my luck, I want to also caution you that you really need to to to to take a chance every once in awhile because like I said, you could or you could be walking around lucky and never know. Yeah. Great. You can't be passive. You gotta take it. Test. Test. You gotta you have to test your law. Yes, yes, your soft and then I freely give my work philosophy. Great, one, good. 

Your story has been very, very, not only pleasurable, enjoyable to get to know you, but to hear you're lucky story. Great memories of Georgia Tech. And we're so grateful to you for coming down to Atlanta today. Take time to share this with us. You're welcome.