is a living history interview with John Hardison, class of 1942, conducted by Marilyn Summers on November the 17th, the year is 2004. 

We are at his home in Brazelton, Georgia, and the subject of the interview today, his life in general, his experiences at Georgia Tech. Mr. Hardison, it is a pleasure to be here with you today, and we thank you for taking time for us. 

Well, thank you for coming. 

So we could hear your story. 

So now, where did this all begin? 

This all began with life back in little country, town, in Fort Valley, Georgia. Fort Valley, Georgia, okay. Back in 1920. And what were your mom and dad doing in Fort Valley when you were about? 

They were farmers. Farmers? 

Farmers, right. I'm a product of the farm. How many generations back farmers? 

Oh, it probably goes back to the founding of this country. 

Really? 

So the family had come early on and settled in? 

Well, they came over from England, and they migrated up to Fort Valley, Georgia, and Byron, Georgia, and homesteaded up in there, quite a few hundred acres. 

So it goes back many, many years of farming. 

When you were born at that time, which was in 1920, what were they farming? 

What was the principal crop then? 

Cotton, corn, and peanuts. 

So we had come back to cotton by that time. That's correct. And peanuts. Peanuts. You were doing just what one would expect in the state of Georgia at that time then. 

Of course we had watermelons and cantaloupes and stuff of that type that we grew for the market as well. 

So it was a very productive farm. Very productive farm. Supported the family. Did you have brothers and sisters? 

I have four siblings, one brother and three sisters. Older or younger or mixed? 

I'm the oldest. You're the oldest. I'm the older one. You were the first one to come out with all the responsibility behind you then. 

So, how long did you live in Fort Valley? 

Is that where you went to school? 

I lived there until I went to Tech. 

Okay, so it's a long history of living here. 

Well, I was born in a home, but we didn't have hospitals back in that day when we were born. We were born birthed at home. 

Now, your mom's family was probably around and your dad's family, so it was a traditional thing. Everybody welcomed the new baby and business went on as usual, right? 

That is correct. Did Fort Valley have a little town No, we were a community. In fact, we were something like 10 miles from Fort Valley. Oh, good distance. 

So you didn't just pick up the door. That was our address. I did not go to school in Fort Valley. I went to school in a town called Byron, Georgia. Byron. Yeah. But? 

You want schooling? 

I want schooling. I want to know. We went to a two-room school for the first six years. How did you get there? 

Walked. How far? 

Three miles. Wow. Wow. Little kid. You were what? 

Five or six years old? 

Oh yeah. And you were the first one. 

So you had to go by yourself? 

Well, we had other kids in the community. We had probably 20, 25 kids in the school from the community. And everybody just hiked it, huh? 

That's correct. And to top it all off, my mama, she was a very entrepreneurial type person. 

So she even boarded school teachers. Oh, did she? 

You lived with your teachers? 

Oh my goodness. That's all they said, I had three psychiatrists to come up with. it's not like you weren't being watched every minute of the day that is right so when I did something wrong it came home immediately with the teacher my mama first and then my daddy came in about late in the afternoon and it came to him so I had three opportunities to correct myself good attitude Mr. 

Harrison good attitude I expect you didn't make too much trouble then with all that kind of accountability well I left home one time oh really I got about a couple of miles away and came back. You were so mad at something? 

We got mad at something. Oh, darn. What kind of a grown -up time was it? 

Your mama had babies right after you were born. No. Not for a while? 

No, we were all spaced five years apart except one brother. You're kidding. I'm kidding. 

So she waited until you were ready to go to school, and then she had the next one, and that's the way it went. And the next one was my brother, and that was seven years after me. and then the next three were based at the five-year adults. I'll be darned. 

So your mama was childbearing for a long period of time. That's correct. She had a lot of help around the house. I mean being in the farm. 

Well you were raised as an only child then for a good bit of time. When I was rotten. You were rotten to the core. I was rotten to the same. 

But not too spoiled if they sent you off the door to walk to school three miles. Good heavens. 

So we went to school in in the Lakeview School, what it was called, through the sixth grade. 

And that was pretty much, you said, two rooms, so you pretty much knew every person in the one school. Every person, yeah. I mean, we had from the first through the 11th grade. Was it like a county school then? 

It was a county school. It was a county school. County School of Peach County, Georgia. 

What kind of an education did you get? 

I thought I was getting a pretty good education when I got to Georgia Tech, but that's a few years in the head. 

But generally speaking, I mean, it was a pleasant experience for you to go to school? 

Oh, yeah, you had reading, writing, arithmetic, and those type things. Of course, you didn't get into it. This is a grammar school now we're talking about. Yeah, we're talking elementary. 

So it's purely elementary. 

But you learn how to associate with people, and you learn responsibility. 

Well, for you, you got playmates because you didn't have any at home. Did you have responsibilities at home to do chores? 

Oh, yes. My chores was always this. to pick up the eggs. We raised chickens to bring in the firewood and bring in the water. Because at that time we didn't even have bathrooms like in those we had. 

So that's pretty, I mean that's a lot of responsibility. 

Well it was, that's correct. 

If you messed up everybody suffered, right? 

Well that's correct. 

So fortunately I'm glad when this sister came along and got bit along because she could have a lot on it. That's really, it's quite a responsibility and there wasn't anyone telling you how to do it. You knew you had to do it once you were trained to do it and that was it. 

Well, that's right. Yeah. Our generation, we did what we had to when we had to. Just because. Just because. 

And nobody was entertaining you anywhere, were they? 

I'm smiling when I say that because kids today expect to be entertained. 

Well, there were no TVs around and there were no radios around even in those days. What did you do all the time then? 

What did we do? 

Yeah. 

Well, we got up at sunup, and we did a few chores before we went to school, and we went to school and got back around 4 o'clock. We did our chores in, and then it was about nightfall, and, of course, we were all readers. 

We ran around with kerosene lamps, but we'd read, and then you went to bed about 8 or 9 o'clock, and that's it. Started all over again. Started all over again. 

In the summertime, when it stayed late longer, you got to read a little more maybe? 

Well, we got to do more farm work. Yeah, I was going to say there's probably a whole lot of time. We learned how to plow and we learned how to pick cotton and stuff of that nature. Wow. Really, really. It's kind of a, when we talk about it, it sounds idyllic, but it was a hard life. It was a lot of hard work. 

Well, it was a hard life. 

And of course, you've got to remember now, this was during the boom days, then the first part of it, then we had the Depression, you remember? 

Yeah, after that, yeah. 

They hit us in 29, so then things began to change quite a well, so we were pretty well off up until the Depression. 

Well, you had plenty to eat anyway, if you were on a farm, there would always be plenty to eat. Hearty eating. Hearty eating. Good life. Great life. 

Now, you mentioned that the little school went all the way to the 11th grade, but you only went there until the 6th grade. The 6th grade, and then the school was dissolved, and we all went to the school in Byron, Georgia. Which was a bit farther. 

Well, it was about 9 miles away. You didn't have to walk there, please tell me. 

So by that time, the depression had really come wrong, and my dad started to farm, and he began to look around for other things. 

So he bought a school bus and transported us to school, all the kids in the community. Oh, so that was a side job with him. That was a side job with him. Extra money come in from that, would he be charged a little bit? 

That's correct. 

So you definitely had a ride then. You got to go, boy, you could never play hooky hill if your dad was driving a bus. You didn't even get a shot at that one, did you? 

That's correct. 

So you started in the 7th grade at the Southern School? 

Byron School, Byron Public School, which was elementary plus high school, 11th, 11th grades. 

And bigger, more kids? 

Did we do good? 

Was bigger, had more kids? 

Well, I would gather that we had probably 75 to 100. Still not a very big school then. Not a very large school, no. No. Of course, my class was only about 17 in my class, but the younger classes had more students in it. 

Now, if you had such a limited number of people, did you get to have athletic activities at all? 

Well, I was a big basketball player and a baseball player. 

We did all those things, and we had a very prominent basketball team in Byron, and did right well with being small. We had a diminished coach, a fellow named Holland. He was about 5'5", but he was a real driver. He made you be more than you were, huh? 

That's correct. Pushed and pushed. Did you like sports? 

Did I do what? 

Did you like the sports? 

Oh, yes. I loved sports. It was a good activity? 

I loved the sports. 

And of course, that was in the wintertime, and then in the spring, We didn't believe we had played baseball for it. 

Now over that period of time, the economy changed drastically because of the depression. That's correct. You've got to remember it hit before. It hit in 1930 and then 1929 was the last good year. 30, 31, 32, 33, 34. It just got worse. It got worse and worse and worse. Yeah. 

So everybody was really scrabbling around for a week. 

Well, everybody was in the same boat, and everybody, nobody thought anybody was poor, nothing like that. No. 

Well, you still had enough to eat because of being on the farm. No, plenty. And, of course, my father, he was having a lot of land. He did have a lot of land. Not that it did him a whole lot of good at that time. 

Well, no, of course. Nobody was buying it. 

Of course, he finally had to lose part of it except about 200 acres in it that we kept the whole home place. And, by the way, it's still standing. 

Is it really? 

And every time we go by there, we kids, why in the devil didn't we buy that place? 

Because you didn't? 

It's still sitting there. 

It's there, but it doesn't belong to the Hardison family at all? 

No, it's out of the Hardison family. 

Was it your father who built it, or was it your grandfather who built it? 

Oh, it was built by my grandfather. 

Okay, so it's got some years on it now, then. I don't know how long, but it probably goes back into the 1800s, I'm sure. Oh, why didn't you buy it? 

That's a great question. We should have. Yeah. It just never occurred to anybody at the time. That's the deal. 

Well, it never occurred to us is correct on it. We all got out and got in business and we had a little money around. 

But then the opportunity had passed because the guy had bought it down there. Didn't want to sell it. He didn't want to sell it. We had an opportunity to go through it many times. 

Well, that's nice. Brought back a lot of memories. 

When you were in high school, you were playing basketball in the winter months and baseball in the summer months, where along the line did you start thinking that maybe you were going to go on to higher education? 

Was that something your folks instilled in you? 

Well, my idea was to be a doctor. Don't ask me why, but I wanted to be a doctor. Okay. And that was my dream. 

So you knew you were going to go to college? 

Well, I knew I wanted to go to college. Whether you were going to go or not was another story. or not. That was a big question on it. And how did your parents feel about you going on to college? 

Well they wanted me to go. Of course finances were going to school back in those days. It was almost eliminated. I mean there was none. I mean everybody didn't have that. 

But I knew I wanted to go to college. So. And I got quite a story if you want to tell. I want to hear the story. 

How did this happen? 

So when I was in the 11th grade and we had a superintendent of the schools, a gentleman named Grogan and he happened to know the head of the co -op department at Georgia Tech it was professor Mike Daniel his name has come up before oh yeah but he was a big co-op guy so he says I told Mr. 

Grogan knew that I wanted to be a doctor and I said there's no way in the world now that became about because we had a country doctor named Dr. King and everybody loved Dr. 

King and he wouldn't administer all the babies and anything that came along and uh dr k took care of us medically on it so i guess he was a one i want to emulate but when i found out it could not be a doctor and i say he said well they got this place up at georgia tech and i'm not really i don't know whether i've ever even heard of tech or not really but he says you're off on the farm and you're probably a mechanical mind and so why don't you think about it so this was probably i don't know in April. This is Mr. Grogan telling you this. This is Mr. Grogan, the superintendent of the Byron High School. 

So around the first of May, he says, have you thought about it? 

I said, yes. He said, well, I'm going to write a call. I don't know what he called to what? 

Mr. McDaniel and see if you can get an appointment with him. I said, well, okay. Okay. 

So along about the middle of May, we got a letter from Mr. McDaniel, I did, giving me a certain date to come to see him, which happened to be on a Saturday. In Atlanta on a Saturday. In Atlanta. 

Now remember that, we live in 100 miles away. Yeah. My dad, he's always killing two birds with one stone, so it was cantaloupe season. and uh so he says well now son uh i think if you take a load of cantaloupes up to the market and be able to sell them on the friday afternoon and friday night and then you go out to georgia tech on saturday and see that so i said well okay i'm 16 years old take them in what school bus oh take the school bus he used it as a truck As the school was out, we loaded it. The school was not out. He made his delivery, so he loaded it up with cantaloupes. I'm trying to picture this. This is a school bus loaded with cantaloupes. And a 16-year -old kid. Is going to drive the bus all the way to Atlanta. Had you ever been to Atlanta? 

Oh, yes. You had been. 

So your father was in the habit of going to market with stuff up there. 

Well, he was going himself on it, right. 

There was an outlet there, a farmer's market or something? 

The farmer's market was out in Murphy Avenue. 

Okay, so you knew where you were going. I knew where I was going. 

Well, what happened? 

Did you start off that? 

Well, he took one of the neighbors down there, a fellow named Mr. Lewis down there. And Lewis Dukes was his name. 

So Mr. Dukes and I go up there and we sell the cantaloupes that night and early the next morning. 

Now, I got to present myself to go out and see Mike Daniel, I don't know. 

But anyway, I had an appointment with Mr. McDaniel on about 10 o'clock on Saturday morning, so the cantaloupes were sold. We drove right through Firepoint, this 16-year -old kid. Of course, you've got to remember now, this was 60-something years ago, traffic-wise. Went out to say Mr. McDaniel, where I parked the bus on the campus, I don't know, but I parked it somewhere. 

And we had a long conversation, and finally he said, well son I think I can take you into school so that was got mine that's the way I was admitted see I didn't apply all the SATs nothing like nothing like that in those and this was in what 1938 1937 1937 this was in May of 1937 okay and he said come fall you're gonna you can just come on up and go he says I'm gonna get you in the co-op program and I don't know it started about the first or second week in July oh so you're gonna go summer co-op first okay you're just going to get out of high school and you're going right away to college so i said now well i think tuition was about 40 dollars a quarter then and books were probably 10 or 15 dollars so i had to come up about 55 or 60 bucks plus i was going to sustain myself during that time so remember this depression you had to sustain yourself means room and board okay so i had an uncle in atlanta he lived out in Little Fire Points area. 

And he said, well, they called me and he said, John, I'll sleep you and I'll feed you, but you got to get the tech by yourself. I said, okay. 

So in July, I went to live with my uncle named Mr. Johnson on it. 

And I think I went up on a Sunday and then I went out to Georgia Tech on Monday morning and enrolled and had my $40 for the tuition and got enrolled. 

Now, were you going to go to class first or were you going to go to work first? 

No, we went to class first. 

So that's why you had to have tuition in hand then. That's right, so we had to have it in hand. 

So we did have summer school then in 1930. 

Well, that was late 37. We went from around the clock in those days. I don't know where to go off. It wasn't always like that, but I can see that that could happen. 

So we went to school six months, and we worked six months. Oh, really? 

Not on the quarter system at all, but on the half year then? 

No, three quarters. Three months in, three months off. Three months in, three months off. 

Okay, okay. All right, that's what I expected. Quarter system. Quarter system that way. 

So you got on the campus when it was very few students. Very few students. Not too many people did summer school. 

So that can be an advantage and a disadvantage, depending on how you look at it. There wasn't as much social life going on, but... 

Well, if social life had been going on, I probably couldn't have enjoyed it with no monetary things around. Yeah. My deal with going to Tech was to get an education. I didn't go there to get the social internet. And it worked out pretty good for you. It worked out wonderfully. 

Now, the one thing that happened was, of course, you had come from an 11-year school program in South, well, not South Georgia, but south of Atlanta. You weren't one of those city slickers. that's correct so and you had a sketchy background for some of the things that you needed to have like mathematics physics chemistry that sort of thing well chemistry I never heard of never even heard of it and remember that I'm one of these guys that came out of the school and they were a 98 point something average is valedictorian yeah you were I thought I was real smart yeah and you how long did it take you to find out you might not be the first five weeks that I knew I was not smart no you just didn't have the opportunity for the background. Didn't mean you weren't smart. The six weeks came around, that's when you get your grades in. And then I said, well, I don't want this. I'm getting out. You didn't think you were college. I wrote my daddy a letter. I said, Daddy, I've got me a job up here delivering papers. Atlanta journals are going to pay me $15 a week. I got the only letter I've ever gotten from my father in my life. He said, son, you want to take up there not to deliver newspapers. He went up there to get an education. 

So you stick it out. 

So he made you stick to your guy. He convinced me to stick it out. And I did. 

So that's when it came to chemistry with Shorty Bartels and all those guys. And I never heard of it. 

The only chemistry we'd ever had in high school, we probably took some sodium out of the water and then flabbed up or something like that. Very, very little. Very little. How about the mathematics? 

Math, I didn't have any problem with. 

So you had a good background in that? 

Well, apparently I always had a fairly good hit from there, I thought. Which was very fortunate. 

Well, of course, when I got into calculus, I had a little problem, but I soon was able to master that. 

But chemistry and physics were the things that really gave me fits. And you weren't the only one. Almost all the boys coming from the southern part of the state weren't exposed to that. The 11-year school systems didn't expose anybody. That's correct. 

Sometimes simple math and algebra, but very seldom geometry or trigonometry or some of the other things too. 

So you had some catching up to do that. We had a lot of catching up to do. And you were living off campus. I was living off campus about four miles from school. 

So that made it even harder because you have to spend time getting back and forth. And how would you have gone about doing that? 

Well, the money was short. You're not going to believe this now. For the first year and half. You know how I got to school? 

But in the morning, my uncle, he had a pants store downtown Atlanta. He would drop me off on Forest Avenue, and I would walk the rest of the way to Tech. Really? 

Wow. Nobody even think of doing something like that. I know, I know. 

But you had to do it. And then when we got out at 4, 5, or 6 o'clock, whatever it was, you know how I got home? 

I walked. All the way home? 

Three miles back. Wow. 

Well, you were physically fit anyways, weren't you? 

Well, I was physically fit, but I was monetarily poor but that went off about the first year what was your first co-op assignment well I got with the Central Georgia Railroad on it and fortunately I was very fortunate with them so they for some reason liked me and I got all kinds of experience in the railroad did they did that you actually learn constructive things there they didn't just use you for monkey work they you they taught you things I mean I went through machine shops I went through the blacksmith shop I even got to learn how to move the locomotive around Wow so you really had some good well a fella named Jack Mason down there for some unknown reason he took a liking to me that's what makes life go around mentorship so yeah a fella named Jack Mason and my final I think six months down there I was more or less of a well what I did I was analyzing the waters and the boilers so you were actually doing real chemistry work there so the co-op part of Georgia Tech was good for you absolutely you made a decent amount of money to well we started we started out as I recall back in those days we didn't have we're working 50 hours a week and I think I'm making about 90 cents an hour but I was fortunate and got on up where I was making about 300 dollars a months on the railroad. That's pretty doggone good. I was doggone good back in those days on it. Your daddy had to be impressed. 

Jack Mason kind of like me on it and by then I was able to save a little extra money for those forty dollars. 

So when I got to I think in my junior year I bought an automobile. 

Wow you were really you made up for all that walking time didn't you? 

I bought a A $60 Chevrolet, a 1932 Chevrolet that I was able to drive back and forth to school with. How often did you get to go back to visit your folks on the farm? 

Well, I went back. Of course, I worked in Macon. I got my co-op job essentially in Macon, which was right there at home. 

So that was close. 

So you did see a good bit of him then. That's correct. And I had a good opportunity there because fortunately I had an uncle in Macon. He said, well, son, I'll house you while you're at school. 

So I saved the board there. Thank God for big families. 

So I had a family that put me through Georgia Tech. The whole family had a hand in it, huh? 

That's correct. And a lot of hard work on your part. Let's go back to the campus now. You mentioned Shorty Bortell. Of course, nobody called him Shorty to his face. Oh, yeah, we did. You did? 

No, not to his face. Not to his face. Not to his face. 

Professor Bortell was famous for, I'm told, he used to write with one hand and erase the board with the other one. Oh, my God, he was a ******. 

But you learned from him, didn't you? 

Oh, he was a good teacher. 

Now, there was another teacher that comes to my mind at that time, D. M. Smith. Did you ever have him? 

D. M. Smith, I'm thinking he was in the math part. Oh, he was math, all right. In fact, he was one of my mentors to get me through on that stuff. 

I'm told he was probably, I mean, so many people have told me he was probably one of the finest teachers in the world. I mean, everyone thought he was a wonderful teacher. Then we had a guy named Ziegler. You know, there's seven Ziegler brothers who went to school. I guess you know that story. Yeah. And by the way, Bill Ziegler, he was in my class as a co-op. 

But he finally, he went regular. Do you know Bill Ziegler? 

Oh, I know Bill Ziegler very well. He didn't graduate in 42, though. He picked a different year to graduate than you. He may have taken a little longer than you did. I thought he graduated in 41. It might be 41. Because he changed over. He just stayed in co-op about a year. He could be 41. I just saw him not too long ago. He's doing very well. His father was a teacher at Georgia Tech. Oh, yeah. And that's who you had? 

Well, I didn't think it was his father. I thought it was his uncle. Was it his uncle? 

Anyway, it was Ziegler. He taught chemistry. Boy, he was a ******, too. That was his father. Was it his uncle? 

Okay. Yeah. 

Well, I didn't understand that because I thought he was Mrs. Ziegler. I had seven boys that she ran. Seven sons that she sent, yeah. That she sent to Tech. Yeah. 

But her husband also taught at Tech. 

Well, I didn't correlate that. so overall did you feel that the professors were there to help you and you got a good education now we had a guy named John's I don't know where that name is ever come from but he was in mechanical drawing that part I've heard some sad stories about mechanical drawing he was a ****** too yeah and of course we all learned to write and we didn't learn how to write we doggone sure learn how to letter did you learn did you ever have Glenn Rainey I don't remember that English, English in Speech, Persuasion. He was a character that was around in that time too. And we had a guy named King who was in the Mechanical Engineering, Professor King. He was a real, real mentor. Took an interest in what you were doing. No, no, I don't mean to everybody. And I can remember back in those days, which was Depression, and he'd always bring out once a week. 

He says, just remember, if you can go work for a chewing gum company, you're always going to have a job because they never go through depression. And then he had another saying he'd always teach us. Do your job when the guy ahead of you, then you'll always be promoted. Do your job and your boss's job. You can get your boss's job and you'll finally light cream rise to the top. 

Well that's really motivating. That's the way Professor King used to teach us. 

So he really motivated you. Oh he was motivated. 

Now did you have any of the uncles that taught in the shop classes like Uncle Heiney in woodworking? 

Oh yeah Uncle Heiney was in woodworking. You remember him? 

I remember him. He's quite legendary at Texas. Very legendary. He stayed there until he was into his family. I don't have it here. My youngest daughter, she collects things, and I think she's got the bookcases and the things. That you learned to make. I learned to make. She still has those. That's great. They're treasures. Y'all got real hands-on experience from those uncles. 

Well, it was hands-on, and, of course, being a co-op, it was, to me, if I'd had to go over it again and I'd had kids, I'd always make them go co-op. Yeah, yeah. Because you get an idea of what you want to do on it. Right. Or even better, what you don't want to do. 

It can be very motivating to know you don't want to work, you know, in a blacksmith shop or something like that. 

So it's an advantage. 

But you also graduate with some experience. You get out of there and get high experience. 

Yes, and when graduation came along the last year, this fellow named Mason, he kept on saying, John, I want you to come to work at the railroad. I want you to come to work at the railroad. 

But for some reason, back then, I could see that the railroads had a very limited future, which they did for long years. 

Now they're coming back now. 

But you could really see it at that time. I mean, I visualized it. I said, Mr. Mason, I'll think about it. 

But I finally had to turn him down. 

Now let's go back to when you first came to Tech in 1937, the fall of 37. It was summer you got there. ROTC was mandatory at that time. 

So you would have had to enlist. For the first two years. Yeah. And I went into the ROTC. You did. 

So that had to become part of your life too then. You had drills and uniforms and glasses. I'm Captain Alford. That name comes to mind. Oh yes, Captain Offord, sure. That's a good memory you've got there. I remember his name. His name comes to mind. He was one of the pushes in the military for us. 

Yeah, and so you had that experience to add to the education you were getting and the work experience you were getting. 

So those are pretty busy packed times for you. 

Did you participate in any of the lighter side of campus life? 

Did you go to football games or? 

Well, I always went to the football games and I got my rat caps away. I don't know where it is. 

So you do remember that part of it. 

Oh, yeah, we remember that thing in freshman year, huh? 

I've heard some really colorful, shall we say, colorful stories about the enforcement of the rat hats and stuff, but not so much for co -ops. Co-ops got exempted from some of that stuff. 

Well, we co-ops. We didn't have much time to participate in too many extracurriculars. You didn't get into too much trouble, that's for sure. 

Well, that's good. We didn't get into any trouble. Yeah, straight and narrow all the time. I don't remember one of my classmates in co-op ever being in trouble. I don't remember. 

But did you make friends? 

Was it a pleasant environment for you on the campus? 

Well, your friends you made were purely in class. They lived off campus. You had limited opportunities on it. 

Because sometimes people say that their time at school is when they made the friends they had for the rest of their lives. 

Well, that is true to some degree. 

But I guess the co-op people seemed like we all went different ways. Yeah, which is, you know, you were in different majors and that's bound to happen. 

Well, I mean, when we got out, we went different ways of the war coming along. Yeah. Mr. 

Hardison, when we look back on those days prior to where, you know, Pearl Harbor was attacked, before that you were aware of what was going on in the world. Were you not anticipating that something, the U. S. was going to get involved? 

Well, that was on 19, well, even a lot of 39 and 40s, particularly all of the 19, a lot of part of 40. Yeah, you could pretty much feel something was going to happen. All the turmoil was in Europe. 

So you were very aware of that. Very much aware. 

The co-op program had been offered to you for a two-year mandatory, but then you exercised your right to go the additional two years. The ROTC. Yeah. Mandated by what? 

What was your motivation on that? $21 a month. They paid you that Princeton sum. Absolutely. $21 a month. That was a real stepping force. Yeah. And it was money right in your pocket. Correct. For something you were used to doing anyways because it had been part of your lifestyle. And we didn't have to buy the uniforms. The armies bought the uniforms for us. And you knew that you would get a commission when you got out too. Which is also a really nice thing to have is that commission. 

So there were a lot of reasons for you to stick with it. tell me where you were on that infamous day when Pearl Harbor was attacked I was at my uncle's house 1047 Ouachita Avenue on a Sunday afternoon with the radio on in my room studied and all of a sudden I think it was H. V. 

Kelton born came home Pearl Harbor has been attacked by the Japanese you can't You can hear them saying it. I can almost hear that to today. Yeah. 

Did you realize what an impact it was going to have on your life? 

Not only that, but when we got into school the next morning, there was quite an impact on the entire campus, particularly amongst those ROTC guys. Because you knew where you were going? 

We were ready to go. We were ready to go right then. Were you really? 

That was just the way you felt. Yeah. 

So you felt violated and you wanted to get out and fight for your country? 

Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. Wow. I just can't even imagine what that must have been like. Everybody was thinking the same way. Cooler heads prevailed though. Better to stay in school. Stay in school. Get your commissioned officer thing and get your education. Correct. 

So somehow or other y'all settled down a little bit. You didn't have too much longer to go at that time, did you? 

Well, we had until May to go. 

So it was six months. Right. And you settled down, and by this time, was school coming better for you? 

Oh, yeah. I got to be a fairly decent student by that time. I think I graduated about a B average. Yeah, that's very decent. 

So you never got put on academic probation, so you were never really that bad. You just had to really struggle to get your handle on things. 

The campus visibly changed a great deal as far as the student body was concerned because everybody was focused on one thing by that time. Particularly ROTC people. Everybody drilling, knowing there was going to be a future there. 

So you finally got to the point, we call it getting out, the graduation. Was that May of that year? 

Well, we had a little bit. Of course, we were interviewing for jobs now. You've got to remember that. Even though you knew you were going to go there? 

Oh, yeah. I mean, unfortunately, the recruiters were still coming to campus. They were. They were coming to campus. And I had interviewed. And by that time, I'm trying to remember the guy's name, but then thermodynamics professor. 

But I got all interested in steam boilers and of that nature. I picked up some of that from the railroad during the boilers there. Oh, sure, you would have. 

So I took a job, I mean a promise of a job, with combustion engineering in Chattanooga, Tennessee. 

So you interviewed and agreed? 

Interviewed and they accepted me. 

And did they all have the understanding that you probably would go in the military? 

They all had an understanding in that, and we had a verbal understanding they would still hire us if we came back. 

If we came back. 

So I accepted a job with combustion engineering in Chattanooga, Tennessee. Do you remember Dean Ajax? 

Oh, yeah. He was around at that time. He was the one setting up all these interviews. George Griffin. 

George Griffin was doing it for you? 

George and Dean? 

Dean Ajax was around, but George Griffin, he was a holder there. And he was getting ready to go off to the military himself. Absolutely. Because he was a commander of the Navy, I think. I don't remember what he was, but he was a Navy Navy owner. 

Yeah, I know he had some persuasion with the Navy because it was bizarre that Georgia Tech was chosen as a Navy ROTC center when we didn't have any, we weren't on water, we didn't have a lake. 

In fact, those early papers, they used the lake from Piedmont Park, Lake Clara Muir, as their boat excursion work and such, which of course has to be a joke, you know. 

But I think there were only five or seven schools in the country that were chosen, and Georgia Tech was one of them. 

So we have to feel that George had a big influence on all of that. 

Well, we had, as I recall, a rather large naval contingent. Oh, he was trying to persuade everybody to go into the naval. Of course, we can all remember they had the blue shirt uniforms with a white shirt. We had, excuse me, I had to have an arbitrary drab on it. They were a little more colorful looking. Very more colorful, very more colorful. 

Did you ever encounter George on a personal basis? 

Did you ever get to talk to George? 

Later on I did. 

But not at the very beginning. After the war. There were always stories about George. To me, the funny thing about George is that every story is different. Everyone had a different experience with him. He was quite a persuader. 

Well, my encounter, we'll get into that later on, but it came after the war. After the war. so here you graduate in May of 42 and how long did it take to find out you were going on active duty as I recall we had to report I was in the Ordnance Department at that time to Aberdeen I had to report to Aberdeen Proving Ground in Maryland immediately immediately as I recall I only had a few days and I cannot remember the exact time did your parents come up for your graduation yes oh that's great you got to give This was a lady there, too. We were not married at that time. Oh, you had already met Helen? 

Oh, yeah. Oh, I think you better tell me about how you met Helen. 

Well, we'd have to go back on that. This is actually not a true story, but it makes a good story. Helen was a nurse in Macon, Georgia. And, of course, I was working in Macon, Georgia. And there was another lady down there that was a nurse also in Macon, Georgia. And ironically, I was going with both of them during my junior year. You were going with, you were dating both of them? 

Both of them during my junior year. And one time I'd have one up for a weekend, another for the next weekend. 

But then when the war began to rage in 1940 now, I had said, now you've got to make up your mind which one of these two ladies you're going to take on. 

So, this lady that I finally took on, she had a brand -new 1941 Plymouth. And the other lady, she had a 1940 Chevrolet. You're not telling me you judged them on their cars. Absolutely. That's the story I tell you. It's not true for a minute. 

But anyway, that's a side story. Not when you introduced her as Helen of Troy. No, no, no. She had something else going for her. I know that. 

Well, we had a lot going for her. 

But you started dating her in 1940. 1940 continually. Okay. 

So when you were going to enlist, you weren't only saying goodbye to your mom and dad, you were saying goodbye to Helen, too. Goodbye to her, correct. Yeah. Pretty traumatic time in a young man's life because you were still very young. 

Well, at that time, I was, what, 21 years old. Yeah. Not yet 22. That's correct. And you're going to go off in a war that you already knew was a ****** war. That's correct. Everything was bad. 

So it had to be very, very emotional, very dramatic for you to... Suck that all up and pack yourself up and head for Maryland, huh? 

Head for Maryland. And I assume we went up on a train, as I remember. Probably so. I'm sure we did. Pretty much everybody was traveling by train on those days. And you were stationed up there for how long? 

Three months. Not very long. 

Well, it was 90 Day Wonders, they called us. That's what they called you. 90 Day Wonders. 

And you came out of there fit to do what? 

Well, in there, we finally got a choice of what branch of service we were going into. 

Now, you think it wasn't a guarantee. Of course, I chose the Air Force. And fortunately, I got into the Air Force. 

Well, they called it the Army Air Corps at that time. And the reason that you picked that was what? 

I thought it was more glamorous, I guess. Not that I was going to be a pilot. 

Yeah, by this time you just turned 22 and you're thinking, okay I'm gonna do something that sounds kind of classy like something new and wonderful I didn't feel like I want to go to North Africa somewhere like that so where where did you go from Aberdeen okay a little story before we go to Aberdeen when I begin to graduate Helen came up she had an aunt that lives in Washington so Helen came up a week before we graduated a couple of weeks and we got real serious then. I said, I got real serious. We're going to have to do something about whether we're going to get married or not. And I think we talked about it, but we didn't make any decisions. 

Now this was probably a couple of weeks before we finished at Aberdeen. 

So when we finished at Aberdeen, we had three days to get to, four days to get to to Montgomery, Alabama. That's where my first station was. 

So I caught a train to Macon, Georgia. And that night I asked Helen, I said, honey, would you marry me? 

And she said, yes. 

So the next day, I think I had $40 in my pocket, something like that. 

So we went down and bought a ring for about $10. bucks. And we got the preacher at the church she was going to to marry us. Right then and there? 

Well, the next day. Oh, so you weren't kidding around. This was really moving in a hurry. 

And I went down and told my mama I was getting married, and she thought I was too young, and so she wasn't happy at all about it. And she didn't even come to have a little ceremony at the church. And Helen's mother was not able to come either, because she was living in Dalton. All this stuff was happening in a hurry. Oh, my. 

So I had an aunt and my sister that came to the wedding. And so we had three days left over before I had to be in Maxwell Field, Alabama. 

So we went to the Elder Hotel in Indian Springs, Georgia. You probably never heard of it. No, I didn't. And we went there, and I booked for three days for our honeymoon. And back then, for $3 a day, you had room and board and three meals. Oh, for heaven's sake. Of course, we, two young kids, the only ones up there, this was probably for elderly people. I mean, elder, E-L -D-E-R was the name of it. 

But it was a very nice, wonderful place. Nice, private place to be. To go, but we went there. 

But we had a little accident, and we had to go to a doctor. and went to the doctor, and that cost me another $3 to go there. 

So we had to cut $3 out of the day, so we were going to stay two days. 

But by marrying, you could then bring her where you were going to be. 

So did she come to Alabama with you? 

No, not first. 

She went to a mother's up in Dalton, Georgia, and I went to Maxwell Field to find out where I was going to be eventually stationed. And I stayed there about two weeks, and then we were reassigned to Salmon Field in Monroe, Louisiana. 

So then Helen and I went to Monroe, Louisiana. 

So you did get to set up a... Right, about three weeks, two weeks. 

Well, this was a very, very common thing to happen in those days, wasn't it? 

The fact of the matter is you were facing life and death, so you might as well get what happiness you can. I assume that's what it was, but a lot of kids got married before they went into service. 

So it kind of guaranteed you somebody was rooting for you, you were going to hear from them and you could stay in touch. Did your mama get over that and write your letters? 

Oh yes, she became over it. And Helen was one of her favorite people, of her three daughters and Helen. That all turned out to be a happy situation. 

So we went to Selvin Field, Louisiana. That was my first station. And I was the ordnance officer. That's O-R-D-N-A-N-C-E. And I was a brand new second lieutenant. This was a brand new field down there. 

And my responsibility in the ordnance department down there, this was a navigational training school, what it was for. It was to keep the vehicles going. That was our responsibility and ordinance on it. And so we were there for about eight months I think. 

And we became very, not active, but we got active to a certain degree in the Baptist Church there and made a lot of friends there on it. 

So you had a happy time during that time? 

A very happy time there. And I almost got I called a marshal there, that's the only time I morphed. 

What did you want to do? 

Well, I was always kind of innovative and the kids didn't have a way to get from the barracks down to where the field was, about a mile. 

So I decided to build a piece of transportation for them and I built what we called a tuna billed trolley. You took a page out of your daddy's book. 

Well, that's correct. 

So we took an old truck, and I don't know if you've ever seen it. You've seen these trotters you can jump on and jump off on. Sort of like a tram kind of thing. Absolutely, and then we had a double transmission. It went about three or four miles per hour, so you could jump off and on. And I got that built, and then the colonel there, his name was Harbo. 

He says, Hardison, I want this thing to go to town on Saturday night and tell these boys can go to town. 

I said, I'm sorry, Colonel, but this thing, I don't have, what you call, a registration, which is a license. I said, we can't take it off the base. He says, Hardison, I want this thing to go to town. He says, well, do what you got to do to get it out there. 

So I had enough sense to know that back in those days there was two chains of command. You could go through a technical command, or you could go through the regular command. 

So I went through the technical man to the Chief of Auditance in Washington, which he could go directly to, with a request for registration for this 10-minute trotter. 

It immediately came back, there was no way, because this vehicle you got had been salvaged, and I want that thing dismantled immediately. 

So I told the colonel about it, he said, I don't care what it is, it's still going. 

But anyway, to make a long story short, within a week I was transferred. Oh, my gosh. 

Well, they put you between a rock and a hard place there. And I was transferred. 

So Washington had you transferred? 

Well, it was done there. Where to? 

Well, we went from there to Ogden, Utah. 

So Helen and I, and our 41 Plymouth. And by the way, that time, she was about five months pregnant. Oh, my word. Your whole world just showed up. It is we were. We took off the way up to Ogden, Utah. with her. What was going on in Ogden, Utah? 

Well, that was another service command of the Air Force. 

So we were there for about three or four or five weeks. And by the way, that's ****** territory, if you know it out there. We won't get too much religion here. 

But finding a place to stay was almost impossible. It was almost impossible. And we'd go to knock on the door. We had what you call the service center for the military that people had offered their homes for. 

And you'd knock on that door and of course the first question they'd ask, do you smoke or do you drink? 

And if you did, you were out. 

Well we finally got a place in a basement and lived there. I mean it was a basement and right over the next door was a cold furnace. Oh my word. And by that time I think Heather was about seven, six and eight months pregnant, something like that. 

So we were transferred then to Sacramento, California. 

Well you're making your way west. That's correct. 

So Helen had a sister in San Francisco and the doctor at Ogden she said I don't think Mrs. Hardison should travel by car but she can go by train. 

So she went by train to San Francisco Mexico, which was only about 40 or 50 miles from Sacramento, or not Sacramento, anyway. 

She went there, and then we found a place in about a week for her, and she came on down and stayed with us there. 

We were there about six or seven weeks, and then I realized what an idiot we are, two young kids way out here in California with a pregnant woman, about seven to eight months pregnant. I said, we need to get back to the east coast somewhere. 

So I don't know where this name has come up or not, but an old Georgia Tech man named Bill Owens, which ever come up. He was the adjutant out there. 

So I went to him, I said, Bill, I need to get back to the west coast somewhere. East coast. I mean the east coast. 

He said, well, okay, so I I could get you back here, but you got to be there in three days because that's the only time when you got orders in, you had to be there or else. 

So I knew Helen couldn't drive. I couldn't go back in the car, so we got arrangements for her to come back on the train. Which took more than three days, didn't it? 

Oh, good God, she took her for about ten days. She had to go everywhere. That's what I thought. 

Now, we were living about 15 miles from the base on it, but anyway, the guy that was written to us. He agreed to get her on the train. We got passes for you. Back there then, it was almost impossible to get it, but we got passes on it. 

So she took a journey for about a week through Chicago and all back to Macon. By herself, because you had to be back to the other base. Wow. What a lot of decisions for a young couple to make. 

So we went back there, and then I went on down to Orlando, and down there we went into commando training for Africa. By that time I was a commander of a company on it. 

So she was pregnant at that time and then I got a call that she's fixing to deliver. 

So I got a three day pass to go to Wiken from Orlando. 

And while I was up there, she had a hard problem with delivering and I got a three -day extension on it through the Red Cross. 

And in the meantime, my company shipped out, and I left behind, even though I was coming to command it. I'll be darned. They left that home. 

But anyway, they went to North Africa, so there was a blessing to that point. You didn't want to go there. There wasn't a particular interest in going to North Africa. No, so they went off without you. Meanwhile, the baby finally came. The baby finally came. And that was your first daughter. That's my first daughter, Carol. Carol. 

So then you had to go back, though, even though this was a newborn age. 

And then we were transferred down to Venice Farley and we stayed down there about three or four months and had a wonderful time down there right on the ocean and we had a cottage right out between the Gulf and the bay there and had a lot of friends and I was another company commander down there. 

But that wasn't the end of the story. That wasn't the end of the story. 

So anyway I was replaced for some reason down there in H2. 

I think this was in the first part of 1944, yeah, and sent it to North Carolina as a casual and not with any assignment of why I was able to transfer it I never had known because I was a company commander down there. 

Anyway we went to North Carolina which was another staging area for it and from there that was my beginning where I was assigned to eventually to China and there was a lot up between the two. 

Okay, so you got an overseas assignment, then Helen couldn't stay there anymore. No, she did, so she went back to Macon. She took the baby, went back to Macon. 

Well, she didn't go there. She went on to Macon from Venice, Florida. Oh, she did from Venice, Florida, so you were in North Carolina by yourself. She didn't go to North Carolina with me, no. 

So when did you find out where you were going? 

That was in 44? 

That was early So we were stationed and we were sent to with orders to go to India. India. India. 

So we boarded. And you didn't know what for? 

We didn't know what for. 

Well, it was... It was assigned. I was an individual, not assigned to a unit at all. 

So we got on the transport. It took about six weeks. By boat? 

By boat. All over the Pacific Ocean, unescorted. Lordy, lordy, and there you were in India. In India, so we finally landed in India. And then we got there in Bombay and stayed around three or four weeks on a sign. 

Fortunately, I met a lot of British soldiers, officers, and got to go to their officers' clubs and so forth during that time. And we traveled all the part of not having an assignment. I was able to report in to headquarters and do what you wanted to the rest of the day. 

So you got to look around at India. We looked around all of that part of India. And so all the types of religions and the shrines and went up to Karachi and up into Pakistan. Then we were assigned to Calcutta, which is completely across the country. 

So again, we boarded a train, and a boy named Alan and I, who was a, I lost, he was a tech boy too, that we met up in Bombay. 

And he and I were assigned to Calcutta, and I never have been able to find out what happened to the boy named Alan. 

Anyway, I got to Calcutta, and we were there for about three or four weeks and looked around there, and then we got orders to go to Kunming, China. And the only way to get in China at that time, you had fly, you know, over the hump. And nothing, the bomber road had been cut. 

So my orders read that I was still kept on a certain aircraft. 

So this was an old B-24 bomber, the way they called them, flying boxcars. 

So they were actually flying over aviation gasoline. 

They carried 50 -gallon drums of gasoline in the holes, so they threw off the drum of that and put me in my baggage, and we went to them. Okay. That's a true story. You were sitting in the space where there had been. No, I was sitting up with a cockpit with myself about to freeze. Oh, my word. 

So the accommodations were not quite as luxurious as they might have been, and you still didn't even know what you were going for. 

So we landed in Kunming, China, I don't know, about 3 or 4 o'clock in the morning, and I guess my first invitation to combat, if you want to call it an invitation, the Japanese decided they were going to bomb us in, so everybody scurried to a foxhole. How we got to a foxhole, I don't know, but that was my first night. I spent in a foxhole in Kunming, China. 

At that time I was a captain and I had a major in there with me and he decided he wanted to smoke and I dressed him down right quickly in a better sense. 

So that was my introduction to China. My word. 

You're welcome to China, huh? 

So I reported the next day into headquarters of the 14th Air Force and that night we got into a compound up there. We called it HOSTA, HOSTA No. 9. HOSTA? 

H-O-S-T-E-L, they called it. HOSTA. HOSTA, okay. HOSTA. And you were part of the 13th, you said, or the 14th? 14th Air Force. 14th Air Force. 

So I reported the next morning, and they said, well, you were over here for one thing. 

I said, what's that? 

He said, we got to do something about setting up repair facilities for these few trucks we got over here. 

So you've been chosen. 

And I began to put together, no way it is or coincidence or not, it goes back to when I was left Selman Field, Alabama when I built that little trolley. 

Now whether that got on my record or not. 

But anyway, that was my assignment in the 14th Air Force. To actually To set it up a deal. 

So we took it up and I finally got a little company set up with three or four people sergeants over there. A bunch of Chinese and we set up an assembly line. To make transportation? 

To rebuild the vehicle. I must go back because we could fly Jeeps over in these B-24s. 

But these 6x6 GMC trucks, the larger thing, they had to cut them in two. They could not get them on the airplanes. 

So they cut them in two? 

So they cut them in two in India, a little bit of dust they cut in Maine, and we were putting those things right together. 

I remember during this time this was the beginning of the stage that we were going to invade Japan from that part of China. 

So this went on for, oh I don't know, for months and months and months that all this stuff was flying in. And finally, in April or May, the Burma Road was opened. 

Because remember, Stilwell was down through there, and he was run out by the Japanese way back in 443, I think. Then all these vehicles began to come into us over there in May and June. To go on the new road that had been... 

Well, I mean, they're coming over the Burma Road. And all these things now in the Stager, and bombs and everything in the world is coming in for them. 

Why? 

Well, isn't it kind of a miracle that you didn't get bombed? 

Well, we were continually bombed, but we never really did enough damage. They killed more Chinese residents on there than they did us on it. 

And the bombs they were dropping, we called them banana bombs, they were just personnel type bombs, about two or three feet long, full of strapplement on them. We really never had a lot of damage on them. 

But then in the first part, the latter part of 45, Chiang Kai-shek was in re -command of the 14th Air Force. And he says, I don't, we were still sending strafing aircraft out to strafe the bases. He says, we're not going to do any more strafing for the Japanese over here. 

So remember now, I was not a pilot, but we had all these 18- and 19-year -old kids over there who were pilots and ready to invade Japan from there. And they'd go out on their missions where they could keep their skills up in flying. And occasionally they'd just, well, I think I'd just take a shot at this Japanese base. 

But you don't know what kind of **** was all raised from over there from there. 

They wanted to keep their hand in, huh? 

So there was no official doing that, but they were doing it on and on. I can see those kids now over there, 18 and 19 year old. 

So then, I don't know when, about May or June, well we settled over in Europe and everybody in Europe was fixing to come over to see us and then Mr. 

Truman decided to drop the big bomb and that was the beginning to the end of the whole thing over there. 

So within six weeks after the bomb was dropped, of course you know, the officers were declared peace between them. 

Now we were sitting in Kunming with all this stuff ready to invade Japan. And there was no place to go. And remember this, the communists were all ready. We fought the communists over there. Yeah, they were the silent deal all over China. Chiang Kai-shek and his group, they were not that. Mayo and his group were the communists, but they were silent. 

So it was pretty known fact that we were going to have a problem as soon as it was over. 

So everybody except us in the Ordinance Department left Kunming after us. They flew everybody out and left all this stuff there. And our group was ordered to destroy everything we could. I knew you were going to tell me that. 

So we blew up and we blew up and we blew up everything. Of course the planes and all that went out, what we could. And so it finally got so bad that we evacuated too. The idea was not to leave any supplies for the communists. 

So the communists could take it over. 

So you destroyed all the stuff you had been hauling over. All that we could. We left, we left billions and billions of stuff. And I'm going back, jumping ahead 10 or 15 years, but we've been to China several times since then. And I see all of these Jeeps and all that I like. And you think I know where those came from. That's exactly right. I'm jumping ahead 10 or 15 years. How about that? 

So we went then, by the way, I should have brought it up. Four of us become real good buddies. 

We were living together in this hostel, a boy named Bounds, a boy named Schaefer, and a boy named Zill. And so we had all become real good buddies. 

And all the other three, they went to Shanghai before I did, because I was left back at the destruction. Yeah. 

So we teamed up again when we got to Shanghai, and at that time, the Chinese army was trying to get reorganized, and they were trying to get American officers to stay over to help train them. And that would be Chiang Kai-shek's Chinese army. Chiang Kai-shek's army. The four of us agreed to stay. 

Really? 

And at that time, I was a major, and making about $600 a month, and the Chinese had agreed to... Compensate you? 

Well, to pay $600, too. 

So $1,200 back in 1945 was a heck of a lot of money. Oh, yeah. 

So I agreed to stay over, and Bounds stayed over, and Schaefer stayed over, and Strolls agreed to stay over. This was probably in September or October of 1945. 

The other two of them, Stroll and Schaefer, they chickened out, so they got out of it and came home. Bounds and I were going to stick it out. 

Well, just before Christmas, by the way, I had already made arrangements for Helen to come over. Oh, really? 

You were going to have her come? 

She was coming over to Shanghai. 

And Shanghai back there then, I remember, we'd come out of Kunming and we'd never seen a white person except military. And Shanghai was full of white Russians and, I mean, it was an upscale, it was a New York type. Real metropolitan. Okay. Real metropolitan on there. And we were billeted in the old English Ambassadors billbacks out there. A beautiful place, I mean, for that time. I mean, we had this and that. 

And so I said, and at that time, you could have lived on $50 or $6 a month with a butler and everything else in China. 

But then about Christmas time, I said, harder than you and nuts to stay up again. 

So I went again and talked my way out to getting out of everything. Changed your mind. Changed my mind. 

So Helen didn't come. Helen did not come. No. In retrospect, you have to be really happy. Absolutely. Glad you made that decision. 

Well, in retrospect, within a year and a half, the communists took over the whole thing. Yeah, it would have been a disaster. 

But you had enough points to get out of the military by that time, did you not? 

Well, I was assigned back. I'd been in four years. 

So then I got orders to report back to Fort Mike I in Georgia. I got a troop ship again in Shanghai. We again took about six weeks to get back into Seattle, Washington. They called it a leisurely cruise, huh? 

Right. 

Now, when you left, how many months service did you give to the Chinese Army? 

To the, I didn't give any. Oh, before it actually, it never really started. You made a commitment and then you didn't have to. We made a commitment, but I never went through on it, so we never went through on it. Quite an experience. 

Now, tell me what the relationship between that was and the Flying Tigers. 

Were you, were the supplies that you were bringing in, supplies that went to the Flying Tigers? 

Oh yeah, oh yeah. The 14th Air force was the fine tiger. That was Sherald. Sherald, he was headquartered in Cunveen when we got there. A little guy about five, five, five, six. Real athletic, really expected all the officers to try to beat him in softball and this and that. 

Oh really? 

So you had a chance to interact with him? 

So, but after I'd been over there about four or five months, he moved his headquarters up to Chung King, which is about 150 miles north. the suppliers that was coming through you, all the materials that were coming in. The whole 14th Air Force. Wow. 

It was actually, that was expected to be the one that was going to do the, was going to aid in dropping into Japan. 

Isn't it interesting when you look back at that time, that something you saw your dad do, you know, all those years ago, in 1925, and then you reapplied when you were in the military, and then here they are asking you for the same skills. jury rigged some transportation huh absolutely absolutely history repeating itself you're you're assigned to fort mcpherson but you you came back by cruise ship to where did you land to sierra washington and what happened there what happened was i think it was 15 or 20 of us was slated to go to fort mcpherson and back in those days the commander of the group was always was a senior officer. There were two majors only to come into Fort Mike first. 

Well I didn't want to be responsible for 17, 18 hundred GIs. 

So this major, what we did, I said what's your day to rank major? 

He told me. I said well you outranked me by three days. You didn't command. I outranked him. 

But you didn't tell him that. I didn't tell him that. 

So two or three days I wired Helen and I'd be in Atlanta at a certain time. 

So when we got into the terminal station in Atlanta, the train, the G. I. was going to be shuttled on down to Fort Mike 1st, but I jumped off the train and there was Helen and met me in the terminal station in Atlanta, Georgia. How about that? 

This was in, I don't know, probably January, February of 46. You were gone a long time. You were more than happy to see her. I don't think any of us can even imagine how you give up that much of your life. 

You're busy all the time, so the days fly by, but when you go back and try to collect that time, your little girl went from baby to... 

Well, she was two years old when I got back. 

She didn't know who you were from anybody, as they say, from Madam's House Cat, right? 

Well, at that time, I had about, I think, almost three months of leave before I was going to be discharged. 

So we went rock and roll with that. We went down to the Henry Gray Hotel that night. That was back beginning. They had big bands even in there. And we had a ball the first night we were there. in Atlanta. Then we went on down to see my folks and then to see her folks. Did that for about a week. 

So it was a great homecoming time. Homecoming. And then I said, well, now you made a commitment to combustion engineering. You're going to do something about it. 

So I wrote them and told them that I would appreciate it, but I was not interested. 

You didn't want the job so then that's where I went up to the Georgia Tech to the alumni office and that's where I became with Georgia Griffin oh sure because he was out of the military by that time that's good and wheeling and dealing as they say so so I went up there and he said well I told him what I'd like to do he said well I don't know a thing in the world like that but I got a good job with Texaco that I think he will like. 

So I went and interviewed with Texas in a week or two and had pretty well agreed to take that job, but it was a traveling job and it was more or less in petroleum and stuff of that nature. It really wasn't what I wanted. 

But then I got a call from Mr. George Griffin. He said, I want to talk to you. He said, I think I got something you says come to see me. 

So I went back up to Tech to see him. 

So a fellow named John Rogers who has left Genuine Parts Company because, and by the way John Rogers he was an alumni of Tech in 1928 and he was a member of the football team, the Wrong Way Corrigan by the way is a side dealer. The Rose Bowl, the famous Rose Bowl guy. That's correct. 

But he had He wanted to leave Genuine Parts Company and he wanted to start up an engineering building company, which he had already started. 

So he said, you might want to go down and talk to Mr. Rogers. 

So I went down and talked to him and Mr. 

Rogers says, I'm just getting started, we've got just a few people, but here's, I'm lightlining what I intend to do eventually on. 

Well, it sounded interesting. He said, I can't pay you much money on it. I said, I can't pay you but $250 a month. Can you live on it? 

You got anything? 

I said, yeah. I got a wife, and I think they got a potty or something like that, and that's about it. 

But he said, now, this is a startup situation. 

So I agreed to go with him. 

So you went on a wish and a prayer? 

Wish and a prayer. You were going to be doing something you'd like to do. 

So I got in there, and I learned the business on it, of the manufacturing and the sales department and all and became his number two man in there and this was now in 1946 so 46 we didn't grow and 47 we didn't grow and 48 we didn't grow and helen she was every time i was coming home she says john you got too much sense and too much education too much background to keep on in there so I said well honey we're gonna eventually make it so 48 came along and then in the latter part of first quarter 49 mr. 

Rogers came up with a new business plan and selling what it was from that business really took off like I don't know what so it was a good thing that you were patient and that's what it required it took almost five years. Did it really? 

Before it started to pay you a decent living? 

Really in 50, 51, and 52. Of course that was boom times in Atlanta. Absolutely boom times. Everywhere. 

Of course there was automobiles and everybody wanted engines and we would begin to sell them all over the southeast. And what part of that business did you focus on? 

Were you in sales? 

I was in manufacturing. 

So you were right on the hands-on part of it, using your mechanical engineering and we grew from a little place on West Peachtree Street and we went over to Honeycutt Street and we found a plant out on Huff Road. I know where Huff Road is so you never went very far from Tech then you were right. 

That's right I don't watch that and I haven't been that a long time but anyway we grew and grew and grew and then in 19 I began to get a part of the company as an ownership. 

So he was good for his work? 

Oh yeah absolutely good for his work and he brought his son-in-law in who was a good he was a good administrator and he began to get a part of it too. 

So we were growing and growing and growing and then we went public in 1962 all over the counter and we acquired two old plants one in Garland Texas and one in Columbus Ohio And the business was really growing, and of course I was working seven days a week, except one thing, I refused to go on Sunday morning, I'd take my kids to Sunday school and church and they went there. The kids would always remember from that that daddy would do that. 

Now wait a minute, we only met Carol, so we had someone else that came on the scene. Oh, well, okay, I forgot little Cheryl. Cheryl came along in 1947. 

Okay, so there was a few years between her. 

Well it's almost four years. Carol was born in 1947 and Carol was born in 1943. I'm right now on that. 

So the two little girls can at least remember their daddy was around to do that. That's correct. 

But you were really paying your dues weren't you? 

Well we were paying our dues because we were growing and growing and growing and I was a workaholic. and uh but eventually it paid off so as i say we went public in 62 and the business continued to grow and then i guess one of the memorable things that my kids remember and my wife remembers that finally in 1967 i said we're going to take a real vacation now i'll back up a little bit uh helen's daddy had died and her mother was living with a sister in Macon. And I was active all over the country in associations. 

So Helen and I would go to conventions four or five times a year. And so we did travel the United States. 

And when we'd go to conventions, I'd always take another two or three days to explore that particular area. 

But in 1967, I said, we're going to take a real vacation. I think I can get away from the company that long." So we set out for a six weeks journey of the United States to take the kids on. Oh wow, the girls got to go. And they got to go. They got to go. 

So that was the real first vacation that I really took. Was it by car? 

By car. Just driving around and seeing the state. By car. In a 1967 Red Plymouth. And it saw the whole country, huh? 

A brand new Plymouth that we took out and saw the country. 

I mean, we went all up through the Northwest and Yosemite and all up into Oregon and the forest and then on down to San Francisco and Los Angeles and Disneyland and Las Vegas and the Grand Canyon. We took the whole shivangio. It sounds like fun. And that's memories that the girls will have forever. 

Well, the deal was in Las Vegas, I can remember, but we stayed there for about three or four days because Helen and I had been there quite a bit on conferences, and we stayed there about three or four days. 

Cheryl at that time, she was about, I don't know, 12 or 13, so of course you couldn't get them into the places, so they'd have to dress her up, so she was 16 or 16 years ago. That's the deal. Anyway, that was the first great family trip we had. 

But then Genuine Parts began to make overtures that they would like to take us over on it. 

So in 1968, it was not a sale, we had a stock swap, our stock for Genuine Parts stock. And we became a subsidiary of Genuine Parts in 1968. 

All of my working life, even in the military, I had been pretty well called the shots like I saw and really had never brought it, even in the military, as I say, never had too much supervision. Too many bosses, huh? 

And we had been our own boss from 1950, well actually 1946 until 1968. 

So they began to get these yellow memorandums on John Anahol, and he was a part of the genuine parts at that time and all, and I was not real happy on it. 

So I told Helen, I said, honey, I said, whenever our financial status reaches, I'm going to resign. 

So Cheryl and her husband, he was in the military, this is Vietnam, but he was sent to Germany, and they were over there. 

So Helen went on to Germany in 1970, and I was going to work. I had planes and all on it, but then at the last minute I had to cancel out. 

So Helen went on by herself, and she and Cheryl toured the whole of Europe in the Volkswagen for about six weeks, and they just had a real ball on it. 

And you were missing out, huh? 

And I was missing out, so Helen came back, and she said, now, John, you have got to go there while these kids are still there. 

So in 71, I said, I'm going come **** out of war, and so we went over there, and by that time, the military in Germany and all over Europe had taken over the best hotels for the R &R for the guys over there. 

And of course, I'd become white-headed by that time, and we'd travel to these places and stay in the military hotels, and we stayed over there six weeks. ourselves. 

And then we were coming back home and got on in London and I got off and picked up a copy of the Financial Times. 

And I saw at that time our wealth, if you want to call it, had reached the point that I said that we were going to hang it up. 

A decision just like that, huh? 

So I went back and I told them if I was to be in General Parks, that if they are convenience Now, was Mr. Rogers still around then? 

Mr. Rogers did die, and unfortunately Mr. Rogers never lived to see. He didn't see the success of his company then? 

No, well he saw us through 63, he died in 63. 

Okay, so he wasn't part of that merge with Genuine? 

No, no, no. 

So he passed on. He had a massive heart attack and died. 

So he didn't get to see the real fruition of his dream. Of his dream, yeah. 

But you did. 

Well, he did, and his son-in-law did, by the name of Brett Agle. 

So in January, February, they said, well, I think it's about time for you to go, and I said, good. I am ready, huh? 

I am ready. 

So that night I went home, and Helen and you were going to do it, and I said, well, I'm no longer with genuine parts company, and she said, well, that's great. 

But I've always had supper for you and I always fixed breakfast for you, but I'm not going to have you for lunch. Because she was very active in us things. Yes, she had other things to do. 

So she did her thing and I did my thing. That's called an adjustment period for retiring, right? 

Oh, it's a tremendous adjustment period. I'm remembering that I'm coming out and all I've been is a workaholic on it. And I joined Rotary and I joined Silver Tan by that time. but I really didn't get into it because I was too busy on it. 

So I messed around for a year and this like it went crazy. Not enough to do, too quick of a change, yeah. Because I said, I'm not going to, everybody wants you to do this. I said, nope, I'm not going to do it. 

So I was looking around to really buy another company and we were looking at national engine there in Atlanta another competitor and finally we got us not a solid partner up in New Jersey and we were just about to consummate the deal and I got gone to New Jersey on a Wednesday or Thursday to see we're gonna get our finances in part and they were gonna come down the next day and we were going on to St. 

Louis but I got a call that night that I came in that one of the guys that died and Ellen heard me on the phone. 

She says, what do you want to do? 

She said, Ellen, what do you want to do? 

Tell them you don't want it. 

So we squashed it in. That time then I got all the jitters out of them. 

So then we went up on Lake Lanier and we bought a house, a cottage, pretty good house, 24, pretty good size house. We bought a boat and we bought a boathouse and everything. 

So you were going to practice playing, huh? 

So we began to enjoy the lake, and from then we started traveling, and I mean worldwide. 

So we started traveling in 1972, or 73, and did so up through 2000. 

So what that did was gel for you that you were ready to see the whole world. You didn't need to be a workaholic anymore. That's correct. 

But when I was in, I was very active in Silvertown. I mean, I was active in it for about 20 -something years until we came up here. And we got active in the city municipal deals, and got active in the churches and stuff like that. 

It wasn't a political deal, but I was always on the edge of politics in that, don't I? 

And the kids in East Point, of course, by that time, the Atlanta environment was beginning to change, and East Point was beginning to go down. 

But I stuck it out. I said, eventually, we're going to bring this town back, because I was... 

But the cheap kids, they moved out. 

But then finally I said, well, we've got to get away from there. 

So we came up here in 1992 and saw this thing begin to develop. And then I took an option on the lot on it. And finally in 1994 I saw it was going to go. And so we built a house. And moved here. And moved here. And you still continued to travel from here. No, fortunately, we haven't. 

The first years you did. 

Well, fortunately, unfortunately, let's put it this way. 

In 1998, Helen over in Greece fell and ruined her knee, and she had to come back and have a knee replacement in 1999. Okay. And that's just gotten harder and harder to do. That got harder and harder to travel on. Yeah. I'll go back on the traveling. Initially, when I retired, we started traveling by cruise ship. And finally, after a year or two, we said, we'd be too young for this. 

Because we'd all, both of us all like to go to the, I don't mean exotic, but to see the poverty of the world. 

So then we began to go to places like Burma and Russia and China and India and all of these other places in the world. And you tell me you have been to 137? 

I think it's 135, 136 countries in this country. Which is just amazing. We had one particular ship. Helen had a heart attack in 1988. And by law, she had this in February. And she was climbing Mount Everest. Oh, my word. Wait a minute. In November, before that, we were there for about three months in that area. Wow. And I guess the good Lord was looking on me because she didn't have any problem. When she got back, she had a heart attack and had to have bypass surgery. Oh, wow. 

So that kind of prevented us from going on to all these out. Then we started traveling again by cruise ship. 

But for 30 years, you did a whole lot of traveling. Oh, Lord, we did a lot of traveling. 

Well, we continued to travel for the next 10 years by cruise. In fact, we had one ship that we got 397 days. Oh, my word. Oh, my word. 

So you've definitely made that, you made that as zealous of a pastime as your working -up was. That is correct. You were a travel-holic instead of a workaholic. Both of us enjoyed travel, both of us enjoyed traveling. That's wonderful. And I used to make documentaries on them, I mean slide programs. Yeah, yeah. I enjoyed looking at them again and again. 

Well, we don't, but back in those days it was great, a lot of people in civic groups wanted to see them. Sure. We did a lot of that. They don't get to go to all that. Churches, they want to see them. I got a whole room full of them back on them that I don't know what I'm going to do. Tell me about the girls. The girls, okay. 

Well, the oldest girl, she went to Florida State on it, and she was going to get a B. S. in nursing on it. 

So she went down to Florida State and graduated there. 

And ironically, the first year she was down there, she was going with a boy she'd been through all high school. She wanted to get married. She came home, I think, sometime during the first year and said, Daddy, we're going to get married. I said, Honey, we don't know about that now. I said, You're going to get an education before you get married. History repeating itself. And I said, You've got a four-year school down ahead of you. Then it's okay. 

Well, she's as stubborn as I am. 

So she went back down there, and she started going year-round, so she graduated in three years. Whoa! She applied herself. She said, my God, I'm going to do what my daddy told me, but I'm going to do what I want to do. 

So she finished in three years, and she married a Georgia Tech man, by the way, two of these. He's a writer now, so he's a graduate of Georgia Tech. 

So you have to commend her on her good taste, right? 

And how many children does Carol have? 

She's got two children on it, and she's got three great -grandchildren. Three grandchildren, which are our great-grandchildren. Yeah, fun for you. And tell me about Cheryl. And Cheryl, she came around, and she went to the University of Georgia, which wasn't too good. 

But anyway. What did she pursue? 

What career? 

Isaac. She got a special education. Special education. 

Cheryl, when she got married now, she married a lieutenant who had graduated from the University of Georgia, and he had obligations of ROTC, so they were assigned to Germany. That's the reason we got into the German situation. Right, right. 

Then when Cheryl came back, Bob, he wanted to go ahead and get his master's degree, and so Cheryl, she went back to Georgia and got her master's as well in special education. for it. That's great. Does she teach then? 

No, she didn't teach. She took off for about three or four years and had a child. 

And then she got involved, believe it or not, with an optometrist, which I didn't know it, but they do a world of work at Shepherds and a place like that. 

Well, I deal on it. And after about six or eight years, she finally got burned out with that. And she's now, I don't know if you've ever heard of it, Babies Can't wait. She's got about 40 or 50 families she visits. Oh, so she's still very involved then. 

And they take these kids that have got difficulties and find the right places for them to go to the doctors. Uh -huh, that's a big job. 

So she's involved in that. 

And Carol, by the way, now, going way back now to going back to right after when she was born, the Red Cross got me in delay and I didn't go to Africa. 

So apparently then when Carol got it she got involved with that type of work. 

So she's involved with the Red Cross? 

Well she's retired. 

She's retired so she was she was the number two commander of the Atlanta Division for a lot of years and hit the Red Cross. 

So she retired last year. The year before last. 

But she was trying to get to come back so she's just took two months or three months so it's going to be a two-month deal she took like three and a half months went down to mobile to straighten the chapter out of that but she's still very very involved so you have um three grandchildren three grandchildren okay so three grandchildren equates to how many boys and how many girls got one boy and two girls so one grandson and two granddaughters that's right and uh the grandson he's all involved in food deal he He wants to be a tech chef, he's about 32 years old, but he's going back to school again for that now. 

And the granddaughter of Cheryl, the daughter of Cheryl, I think she's going to be a perpetual student. 

But she is now getting a degree and MRIs and all that kind of stuff. Oh, that's wonderful. That's wonderful. And she's finally decided on that. 

So you're going to have a chef and you're going to have a technician, a medical technician, The third girl, she decided she got married when she got through school and she wanted five children. Oh-ho, so she's on her way to being. She married a fellow that does fairly well financially. 

So you're able to have... 

So she's got three children, but she's finally got to say, well, that's enough. And every three will do it. 

So that gives you three great-grandchildren. Three great-grandchildren and three grandchildren. Wonderful, wonderful, wonderful. And two daughters and two son -in-laws. 

And a house big enough to have a reunion for everybody, right? they can all come and they kind of pulled the wool over my eyes for thanksgiving they've always come here for thanksgiving and christmas and for some reason they circumvented me on this one they got where are you going somewhere else carols going to have us but i said no more christmas what is going to come christmas well this is a big house it was just made for christmas well that's right i mean we all come down here and the kids can play yeah finding a room for everybody The girls will be here. They come in Friday and Saturday. They'll decorate the house and put the Christmas trees and all that. Oh, isn't that nice. That's great. Which they like to do. It's wonderful that your children are so close at hand that they can do for you. 

Well, that's true. We've always been a close family. That's great. In fact, my family has always been a close family on our lake house. I mean, my family always gathered up there for three days every summer. 

Well, you learned from at your father's knee. You certainly did. All the way down the line, didn't you? 

It's been a wonderful story. You've had a very full life. We didn't learn how to build engines. I didn't even know we built engines in Atlanta. 

So it's interesting to know that Mr. 

Rogers had a company going, you know, when the post -industrial areas set in and all this was going on in Atlanta. You were a part of all that. 

Well, it's still a great industry, unfortunately. Genuine parts, but I won't go into the details. They finally decided they didn't want to continue with that business. 

And after I left and Fred Egger left, after about three or four years they finally disposed of the business they owned. 

So there is no John Rogers. In fact, what happened, the plant out on the gut row burned down, that was the beginning of it. 

But there is no John Rogers company now. No longer. No longer. 

But it was kind of bad on it because we had five or six hundred employees. 

But you were there for it to be at its very best. Absolutely. That's wonderful. 

But the engine business is still thriving, not ours, but it's more or less in Fort Worth and Dallas, Texas. 

What a good thing that George Griffin bothered to tell you, even though he thought you were going to work for Texaco, that there might be something you'd like better, huh? 

That's right. George Griffin's a great guy. You'd have had a different life if you'd have gone the Texaco way. 

Well, I don't know what I'd have done. You'd have been traveling a whole lot, and you wouldn't have been with your family as much. That's correct. And I expect for the final remunerations on it, it's been a great situation. Of course, the best thing that ever happened to John Rogers is we merged with Genuine Parts Company. 

Of course, Genuine Parts is still growing like a weed, even though it's a nine billion dollar company now. 

Well, it's been a great story. 

Well, it's been a pleasure to be with you. Thank you so much for sharing it with us today. 

Well, thank you for inviting me to tell this story. I rambled and rambled and rambled. It was a lot of fun. Thanks. It's a great deal. Thanks ever so much.