This is a living history interview with Dr. 

Tom Malone, Class of 960 three class of 1966, conducted by Maryland's summers on April the tenth of the year 2002. We are at the Milliken guest house and Spartan Berg, South Carolina. And the subject of our interview today is his life in general, his experiences at Georgia Tech. Dr. Malone, Thank you so much for letting us come and visit you in this beautiful facility. We're delighted to be here. And so happy you could find some time to put some thoughts together here today for us. 

Where did your story began? 

When and where? 

While I was born in Jackson, Mississippi, March 27th, 1939. They have there for about a year and a half. My fam family moved to Baton Rouge, louisiana. 

How much family was there when you when you were born, where you and align on the hand the third of I'm a third of a man, Children's Still I had one sister was first and then one brother older than me. And when we move to Jackson, they were three of us. I mean, to Baton Rouge. 

Did your daddy do for a living you were in in Jackson to start with? 

Dad was a sheet metal worker, sheep cam. 

And so he in his profession, he got transferred to or he moved to Baton Rouge and he worked for other sheet metal companies at that point in his life. 

And then he moved to Harrisburg, Mississippi when I was three and started with an uncle, started the sheet metal business partnership themselves. And so you were three years old, that's probably the earliest memory. 

You wouldn't even remember Jackson then what your warm that lack and remember Baton Rouge? 

Very briefly, hours. I think my mother found me on morning. 

We lived on the freeway, the Baton Rouge freeway, and someone knocked on the door very early one morning and I was in the middle of the freeway, had gone out the front door with no clothes out. You weren't sure? 

Ha so that was the 100 back seat where somebody would have told you that story. Again. 

But once you got to head, he's had his burger my pronouncing that correctly, Yes. Where would that be where you started your education? 

That's where I started my education. I live there through high school. Okay. 

So you see your family settled down right there and they increased in multiplied eight boys and one girl. Wow, you're sated mother? 

Yes. Eight boys. Your data obviously was gone for a baseball team. Just came shy. He just ended at once. Yeah. 

But he had nine. He figured that was enough. Sister was the first we lived in the country. She must have been like a snake. It momma told you boys, she was and she was a terrific and she has now eight of our own work. 

So we're, we're a family, very much a family. We live in a country. And it's actually a very rural area, very roll and pitch outside of Harrisburg. 

And we had our own farm and that's the farm was the source of most of our food and the food of our animals which were also part of us it. 

So we, oh, we're part of a big family. They grew up on a farm. 

Everybody had chores and everybody had chores from the minute you were able to do anything from picking up the eggs from Diana asked a milking the cows, feeding the hogs and the horses, and the goats and chickens and turkeys. And because all of this had to go on, but your daddy still kept a job. He kept his business his business, so he was a busy man and expect to live out for me. And my mother was she had nine jobs with those nine children were a challenge. She was up to the challenge. That's just so everyone it was teamwork. Everybody had their response and that's where I learned teamwork. 

That is, everybody had their job and we we also had to wash dishes because my sister couldn't wash our dishes. We always ate together as a family of 11. 

As we get further and we took turns washing dishes and you broke one, you had the pleasure washing them for a week. Haha. 

So we had a system at play. We had incentives to do things, right. That's a great thing. 

Your mom was a real organizer, wasn't she was she'd been or she'd had been a crazy because it's just a lot of people that try logistically. 

It's nice to that everybody share chores that it wasn't designated to being all your sister? 

That's right. 

It wasn't the sexes household that every shot and she watched actors when we did most of them, we did most of the housework when school started. Five years old, maybe six years though, so okay. Little roll. Let's go in a little town called Raul springs and it was a, it was a five room schoolhouse. And I went there through the Sabbath. Great. Are you good student? 

Yes. Like to go to school. Laughs. Go and and I I was a good Did it to be good job. I do enjoy like selling. Yeah. And you were a good reader. Url animals. I was a very good read a very early, very early. All of this had jobs. My first job was the age of 10, and I didn't realize it at that time. It was beginning of my career. I started in the textile industry at 10, but I didn't know what lesson. 

And I worked at a sawmill that cut dog would shuttles this I'll mail made the shuttles that go in lens. And my job was when they sawed off the dog would scrap to make the shuttle. They threw it in big piles and my job was to but the wood on a wheelbarrow and haul it to 300 yards. 

I were in the woods and stacking and cores, 16 feet long, four feet hang out, paid $1 for every quarter each course. 

So what does it literally dog wood from the tree and the dog with trees. And that was their family dog which the shuttles were made from dealt with. It was the only interesting, withstand the tremendous hammering of backwards and forwards and alone. 

But you asked me about reading because I worked on those and that would mail after school and on weekends and all summer. 

But it was boring. And so what I did was read, I had a book, mobile. And the country that came by every two weeks. And we have atomic came by with checkout 14 books. And my whole plan was to have read those 14 books before it came back again. And the book, Olbia, was it supposed to give you about two bucks. 

But they finally agreed to give me one of these with little books. 

But I read for textbooks awake. I mean, every two weeks, weeks, one through the summer. And that was when I started reading. Every reading teachers dream. Really rack up the reading bytes. Mother always said, one thing that people can take away from you is your education. 

And you're going to have to educate yourself and let others educate you, but you educate yourself by reading. She was a wise woman. Wise woman was achieved and a teacher. And instilling all family values and principles. 

But also recognizing that education is going to be the key to the future. Fight as hard work, education, teamwork, the golden rules. She was a teacher of one ladders. She's very famous. Everybody, everybody color granny before she passed away two or three years ago. And, and she was everybody's grabbing. G was higher granny. And even though she was a mother, she was granny, two grandchildren and great-grandchildren. And she was a teacher. One liners. The golden rule do unto others. Never could, never quit, quit or never wins. 

So she was seen as edition I never could. 

And the whole family learned the one liners from her and she knew how to get your attention when you didn't do things and it was called a P3 lab working away. That's actually got your intention to do that very often. 

Now, she took care of us and dad was quite strong and lived and taught by example, mother taught by one ladders. He was your role model. They are always see the right way to go. You've had a happy coming at time 0. Absolutely. 

It was hard, but it's not a star, but she didn't know it was hard because everybody was doing this was challenging. Big family providing for your sales pair, proud of that job. All the way from ten years old, I've had a job my entire life. Hey, when I got old enough, 15, I've started work at a service station. You couldn't go to work without the under 15 and lots of places for for legal reasons. And then I worked for my father and and so when I got old enough to do that, which is 60 and 70. 

So the work ethic was very much a part of your calm enough time. 

All your brothers, the same way everybody got jobs or even all of them started their own businesses with me. I was the only one that didn't follow my father and he's having his own business. How interest and I was I'm the only one that quote, they ran out of Mississippi. 

When you are doing well in school up in seventh grade, you said you stayed in that one school that had some crazy to go into junior high was that I went to junior high and our father we lived in the country. 

But my mother and father said we want to have the best education. And we want you, if you want to compete. And athletics. And the city skills were considered clearly superior skills. And they had athletic teams and they were it was a AAA big SKU for the state of Mississippi. And he had to pay tuition. 

If you went to the cities go you had to pay tuition. Really, even though it was a there was a public school. Where do you live in the county? 

I had to go to the county SKU. 

But if you'd pay tuition, you could go to the city SCO. And he decided we were all go into the city scale. And that was a commitment educator, a difficult thing. And even though he he finished Task2, my mother only finish the 11th grade. They got married. When he got run at ASCO, which was very much the width at times. 

But he told us education, she taus education. How would you get to school? 

Bicycle was three miles three or four miles in the country. Rode the bicycle school. 

But I went to play football and basketball and track. And so he he said, If you don't play athletics, you will get a job afterwards. 

If you play athletics and stay on the team and you make your grade, you can play any athletics you want to. Man, he had a real system. 

We had to be it's good eight and had to ride a bicycle and that was a nice ride every morning and coming after practice, it was back after dark. And that's the way we wanted to scale. 

So you think of your junior year, junior year, times the seventh, eighth grade, 88 through 12, eight through 12 transferred in. 

So can you ask yellow and then they had a lot of high school. It was Harrisburg ha ha. 

And how did you do were you an athlete? 

Did you do well in the sports? 

Football players, basketball player? 

I was attract player and I was pretty good. 

So you competed to your heart's content. 

And I was fortunate enough to be only all start aims and LBJ teams cell isn't really positive experience. 08 of the boys all played football for Harrisburg half. 

And he was one of our family, played on the high school varsity football team for 22 straight years, Africa. And had some kind of a record for this. Absolutely. I suspect my lawn boys, it rather well known in that area. And all others play the same position. All of us play guard and land backer. All eight. I was it was like it was stamped on our Hay. Had your little Malone your garden land back here. And we were all good football players. 

And but I was the only one, I guess it played all three sports, but we all played football and my parents went to junior high or the beating games on Tuesday night. They went at the junior high games on Thursday night. 

They went to the varsity Haas group game on Friday night, and they went to the college again on Saturday night and they never missed at my knowledge, I don't believe they're investigate. You were very fast even grandparents, why? 

They were tremendous. 

So that was a great teaching. And that's where we learn the family teamwork and we learn athletics teamwork. And those came together and form. 

All I was his last Where we are all different but they're all the same old clot came from the same thing. Where you raise what's an innate knowledge that you will go on to higher education. Now? 

Now, because my mother and father didn't serve, I did. 

My oldest sister got married right out of high school with his brother, even though we had a football scholarship, didn't take it after I got married and came to you. When it came, I was the first one and I'd been my sister was an absolute straight a student. And, and, and and my brother was a good student but not a great. He was a better athlete than man. 

I was at third and I got a football scholarship to go to junior college and decided that the military army started a buddy bit too concept than that. 

If you go into the Army for six months rather than ASCO and then be seven years of reserves, then you wouldn't have to worry about being drafted when you got out of college. 

So there were 62 of us in Lascaux went together as a group three days after graduation, two to four jacks and South Carolina for training and education. 

So as a group you enlisted in the US? 

That's right. Sixty two hours. 

And the understanding was you would go through basic training and some active duty, but then and then you have to use reserves. 

So obviously you were available if if there was an emergency, but what you get if you didn't have to worry about, I wanted to college and then beyond the lottery or the draft and have your education interrupted. And I wanted to get that behind me. 

So I did. 

So I gave up my scholarship to go to the army. Scholarship would have into the community college in your area? 

I try to play football. 

So when I came back six months later, it was nine months before September starting. 

And I had to decide what to do and I didn't know I still didn't expect to go to college and decided to go to work. I went to work in bridge construction. And by the time I had been doing that for a few months, different. 

I'll cite places in south Mississippi building bridges and living in a house, trailer, and go on home on the weekends. I decided that maybe my mother's message on education was right. Let me do it that way. My army and I said I can do better than this. And so I call my football football coach. I gave it that his head is a scholarship, still good. He said no. He said but you can come try out. Said I offered you the scholarship. I fill those vacancies if you want to come try out. 

But he said they're going to be a 100 plus people try out for about 17 or 18 scholarships if you've come try out. Okay. And I said fine. And so I did two things. Number 1, I started every night on the bridge construction. I got my helmet and football shoes and shorts from my high school coach and I worked out every night. Amazon. And the second thing is the only see I ever made and Haskell was in chemistry. 

And I decided that if I went to school, I was going to be a chemical engineer and I had no idea what a chemical engineer did. 

But we had a career day in the high school senior year where they had people from different careers come in top. I went to one, I went to several. And there was a gentleman that there was a chemical engineer from Gulf all. 

And he talked about the careers of chemical engineers and is basic message was that degree, you're almost unlimited what you can do. And I knew I didn't know what I wanted to do. 

So I said, Oh wow, that of all the things I heard about, that was the broadest. 

So all of a sudden I had this wonderful down. I didn't know any chemical engineers. I never knew an engineer. And you didn't eat it? 

I didn't like chemistry, but I decided I was going to do it anyway. And that junior college had pre-engineering. They didn't have chemical engineering. 

But I decided if I was going and I wanted to do chemistry, I had to address the sea I made, which actually I had very high grades, but I was, I was a very I was a wonderful troublemaker in play. 

And the teacher took off a grade point for each time you disrupt the class? 

It took me from an a to a C. It wasn't because he didn't know the work and as you were happy, but it made me mad. 

So what I did was had my girlfriend each week while I was working bridge construction, she would take my high school chemistry class and she would write a test for me chapter by chapter and how we go all in US. And then when I come on this week is Chapter 6. And I would study at night eight drum, I worked out for football. I'd studied chapter of chemistry and I'd go home on the weekend and she'd give me a test on that. 

Now let's say you are. 

So I was coming, I wanted to be good when I went to pre-engineering to succeed in chemistry. That's how ultimately are in my chemistry. 

When you went for the tryouts, you were physically fit and mentally alert, obvious, and more mature than you had been on the original scholarship because the army certainly had to be a maturing experience and try not to mention the bridge-building. 

So it's nine months later, approximately AMPA graduation. 

And you went for the tryouts? 

For the try out every day after the first practice, they had to be down to 3233 players for the total T. 

But more than, Hey, if I'm at, we're we're returning sophomores. And so at the end of each practice, they'd be certain people, they come to the dorm and say, go home. And I can remember my roommate and I started hiding under the bed. I think, yeah. There's something really bad. 

And fortunately both of us made it did make me think what's goal was that we didn't say that that was Pearl River. 

It was called Pearl River Junior College then Pearl River College today, BRC and pop up in Mississippi. Grave reinstates go. 

You both made the cut of my cat and you were back in school again, right? 

And the engineer and family to go to higher and you can try it. You were right for it. That's right. You obviously we're ready for it. How did the football playing Go? 

Okay. We were terrific football pair. My experiences that lieu school it only had 300 students and they were 16 of them and Mississippi. 

And it is I look back over my education career, that those teen experiences were incredible impact on my life by my education was two. 

And as I look back through my entire education career, and I start naming the educators, the athletics for a minute. The educators and teachers, I had. I've said it had the biggest impact on my life. 

Five or six of them were in that little junior college, isn't thoughts and I had the best calculus teacher I ever had was in that little junior college at the best chemistry teacher I ever had. And that junior college, I had the best economics teacher high overhead. 

And at college, it was ever had hype about is because they were there to teach, because they love teaching that and publish your research. I am but Emily, where they did nothing but teach a course unless classes were small. And I was a good student and I excel, but they were great teachers. And the football was a wonderful experience. The coach that I had was a genius. 

He was a legend in his time and he got call that every wadi want and what was his name is coached TD Adobe hold it. And other than my mom and dad, He was the next day he had more impact on my life. He was a teacher of people. He treated area individual as an individual, treated them all differently. And I spent nine after 98 night with him, watch and fails. 

But talking about laugh. He was a psychology major. He was, he was my mentor. Turn those years and we won. We were, we were right up in the top two or three in the nation. He was a genius and winning football and me 18 out of 16 years he won the state championship. 

So he was a great, great, just a wonderful person who's a teacher of peoples. 

But he's also a teacher strategies. And i've, I have reflected on my life. 

There's probably not a day in my life business that I don't apply and do something that I fundamentally learn from he and my mom and dad. 

But he was the one that was a clear position it as a teaching role. Mom and Dad was by example. 

And so whether it be business strategy or how you motivate people, how do you win? 

I got it right there. He led you to believe that you could go ahead and be a chemical engineer? 

That's right. 

So you didn't start thinking about only two years. You're going to go more accepted. He enticed me because he entice me. At the end of those two years, I had scholarships to several other skills. The University of Georgia, Southwest Louisiana, Southeast Louisiana college to play football. 

But I was really small. And I really I decided maybe it's time to go get an education, but I didn't really know how to do it. And I didn't know who's going to pay for it. My parents could find. And so he this the coach. Sorry, I didn't have any plans to go forward. I was going to quit and go to work. 

So every step of my education will happen incrementally. There was no plan. And he came to me and the assistant coach, I work with two coaches. 

This junior college is assistant coach had been hired away, but he was also the high school chemistry teacher. That coach was. 

And he came to me and said, will you coach the spraying the land until I can hire a new coach? 

And then the high school coach It was leaving was teaching chemistry, came said, Would you teach my high school chemistry? 

We don't have anybody knows chemistry like you do. 

And so my last semester and that junior college, I coached football for the spring training and I taught high school chemistry. And he offered me a job then as his assistant. 

And I was absolutely knew I had to take it because that was a chance and a laugh down here was my ADL now asking me to be as assistant coach. 

But I always believed in asking people for their input. 

I went to the basketball coach who I also played basketball farm and I ask him what would he do? 

He said, Do not take that job. 

He said I you, you you admire coach old and you would do anything for him offering you this job? 

You can say no. 

But you got to. 

And I said, But why? 

Said you gotta get your education? 

He knew that would've been an impediment to and he said, You gotta get the education. And he said, and if he won't you and you get your education and you still feel high. He was wise. Yeah. 

So he gave you the rationale you were looking for to go on. 

Now, how are you going into life? 

It wasn't caveat. 

That's a big story because it was quite by accident what happened? 

That goes during that period of time. 

Why was that last year as a sophomore, it happened I was back and had his bird Mississippi and one of my very best friends fellow named Ray might fail. He and I had grown together up together, had been France both li a wet and the country. Used to ride to school. Sometimes he come pick me up on his motor scooter, So wouldn't have to ride my bicycle. 

And he was going to see a newspaper writer, a fellow named Jesse his house I have a brother named Jesse hues, but this is a difference as he use in Harrisburg. And he was the editor of the Harrisburg American paper in a great interest in and young people. And he is the one that had convinced me to join the army reserves. And I never had any other action interaction with him. 

But my friend Ray fail how we're go on to this one and oh, and in the country and he said I've got to go see Jesse. His I said, Well, what about he said I'm gonna go talk about my life, my career. He wants to spend an hour with me. He said Come on, Go with me. 

And so I went and when I got there, I just sit and listen to him, talk to my friend about his career and what are you going to ask any questions and things. 

And and then when he got through, he turned and looked at me and he said, By the way, what are you going to do your lab? 

And at me, I'd had really no interaction with him. 

I said, Well, what do you mean acid? 

And I just off the cuff I had said he said, Well, what do you want? 

I said I don't know. He said, What do you want to do that? 

So I want to go to Georgia Tech. And you don't know why? 

Yeah, I did. Because when I was a junior, sophomore in high school, we had a great football team. My brother was a senior oldest brother. And I had to all Americans. Both went to Georgia Tech. Fellows named Joe Stone dog it in a video ward and they both, Bobby Dodd came after those two guys. We got him and I said, My God, that's gotta be a great school. 

And so when I say Chemical Engineering, I'd also ask, where was the best engineering skill in the South? 

And they said, Oh, no question, it's, it's Georgia Tech. 

And so consequently, I had that on my radar screen, but I figured it was a drain that could never happen. And when he asked me that question, it was right then I'm a man. I said I want to go Georgia Tech. And I figured that would be the end of the discussion. And then my friend turned and he said, Mr. Hughes, he is really a terrific athlete and he's a terrific student. 

But he, he has got any money. Just like he didn't have any money. Ended up both going to Georgia Tech relevant. 

So and consequently, he said, Well, let me ask you a question. Would you be willing to do take some test? 

And I said, sure. And it was right at the end of the year. And I'd already been selected the valedictorian of my college. And my friend Ray told him that. 

And he said, Would you go out here to Southern University of Southern Mississippi and had his bird and take a ray of test. And that's it. Sure. 

Well, I said Why? 

He said, Well, I just want you to do it. What do you do it? 

I went and took all day test lodge a test. 

About three weeks later, he called me and he said, I want you to come see you on Wednesday and I said, Why don't you said you're going to Georgia Tech. I said I'm knowing what he said You're going to Georgia Tech. 

He said you won't believe what you scored on those test, what worked and what wasn't scholarship? 

It was it was it was an IQ test and it was Knowledge Test. It was already a test. And he said You're going to Georgia Tech. 

So he was aware that there was a program universe of Southern Mississippi. 

But you'd still what I said, but how am I going? 

I can't go. He said I don't know how you're going to go, but we're going to find a way. He said, I want you to go talk to your high school football coach. And I ask if he has any ideas. 

Fellow named Buddy Watkins and recently where my high school coaches, So they said I went to see him and he said I have talked to Mr. use. He said, I know what kind of student you are. I know how you did it. Pearl River. And I said, we're going to find a way ITU to Georgia Tech. And I said but he said My dad has asked, my dad came and we have nine children. He has he's a little cheap metal bits and do that. 

So he said, Well, we're going to figure out, I'll never forget he stood up and he said, I'm going to tell you, you're going to Georgia tag. 

If I have to borrow the money to pay your way. Oh, minus is a pattern. 

But he said, but I've got an idea. And Hercules powder company had a big plant there. And he said, I know the person that heads up that plant. And Mr. 

Gardner was a graduate of Georgia Tech, the plant manager for that very large forest products that the plan of Hercules powder company. And he said, I want you to go coach Watkins said I want you to go talk to Mr. Gardiner about your desires. 

You go to Georgia Tech and I'm going to talk to them ahead of time and I might have Jesse his talk to it. 

And so when I went, he said, oh, you've got some very strong supporters and they tell me that I should talk to you. And I said, yes, and they said, Well, they think that maybe you would qualify. Our co-op program. 

And he said I said, Well, I don't know what a co-op program AS and he said is where you worked quarter and go to school a quarter. And they said, Would you be willing to do that? 

And I said absolutely. 

That's the only I said I'm, I'm really to smile to gone to senior college and play football even though we have scholarships. I know I need to get my education and Georgia Tech won't take junior college transfers. And the others Google I was looking at was LSU and they wouldn't either. 

And Bobby Dodd want to players for five years, a red shirt year and for years that was his pattern is the way time he took no junior college transfers. I had a scholarship to University of Georgia wireless bots was a coach. And but while the bots and but I said I want to go to an engineering SCO. And the two engineerings goals. Don't take junior college transfers and I don't know how to pay my way. 

So here we were because a GS use and coach Watkins, I'm in front of fright garden and he says, Would you be willing to work? 

I said Of course I would have had a job all my life. Yeah. 

And he said, Well, I tell you what, if you will if you can get accepted at Georgia Tech, he said we only take co-ops from Georgia Tech. We don't habit for we have two working intuits go. And he said We have one slot coming open. 

And he said If you can get accepted and if you will make a 30 average at Georgia, take your first quarter. We will hire you. That was a great deal and that was a good deal. 

So he said, But you gotta get accepted. I wrote a letter. It was I think it was the Carmichael I think Carmichael was the registrar at that time. 950 out of it in 19 that had been in the spring of 960. And so I wrote a letter saying why I'd like to be accepted. And I got an invitation to come to the campus to be interviewed by Mr. Carmichael. And I'd never been there. 

Have you ever been? 

And I got my car and drove to Atlanta and I had a little o Chevrolet then and I drove all night to get there. And that office wasn't open. 

I got there at four in the morning and I pulled up beside the football field, grant feel and slip my car until the registrar's office is open. 

And I went in and I interviewed and he said, Well, you're you want to be a co-op students? 

I said yes. And he said he said, Well, I want you to talk to Dean Griffin, George Griffiths. And I know ribbon. I said, Well, okay. And I went to see Dan Griffith. And he said, You know, you've got a terrific background. You've done very well in school. You did very well a competitive test. 

But coming from a little junior college in Mississippi. And we know you're a valedictorian of your class, but you know, Georgia Tech's a special place. And yes, we have a co-op program. He said Griffin said, I want you to walk on the football field and trial for Bobby Dodd. He said, I know we didn't take junior college players. He said, But I want you to try out. And I said, But I came. 

And he said Why? 

I said because there's one slotted Hercules and it's to go to school in the summer and the winter, not the fall and the spring, so I couldn't walk on in trial. 

So he said, Well, you can't come as a co-op student because you have to start co-op program starts as a beginning of sophomore year and you have to work six quarters to get a co-op degree. 

So if you started, you've already finished your sophomore year. 

And I said You mean you're telling me that I can't come to Georgia Tech as a co-op Cause I have finished my sophomore year. He said, That's right. Those are the rules. I said. 

Would you please welcome me as a new Georgia Tech's do it? 

And he said, What do you mean? 

I said I'm a starting sophomore. You've got to start over. 

And he looked, he said, would you do that? 

I say that's when I get in Georgia Tech and that's what Out it. And he said, Well, let's call him Mr. Carmichael back. 

And he sent me back over and I tell him the same thing and he said, If you'll do that, we'll consider you. And but he didn't give me an answer right there and it was two weeks later for I got accepted. 

So now I've been accepted at Georgia Tech the start versus laugh more. I figured that I would probably flunk out anyway. 

Because how is that possibly going to be prepared for this great Georgia Tech's go and it's a little scribble down in Mississippi, which everybody thought was that at that point there yet you hadn't had a chance to evaluate against the real world. The real world. 

How could I stack up against the Grady students at the greatest college? 

And I had done my reading and it was fantastic. And I said, I'm not ready for that product as if I'm gonna do it anyway. 

So i and he accepted me and I started and I started in the summer than 60. 

So you started as a tenth and that's a sophomore, first-quarter sophomore. 

So I had to take everything out. 

So it was caught my eyes over again, yes, I want everything I can to help calculus. 

I had the best calculating, had taught, Kevin, and I had taught chemistry, but I had the best calculus teacher. Name was Miss web. She was fantastic and I hit her for two solid years. I really knew it. I could've taught the class and I'm just I couldn't she had great teaching me. 

So but I had to make it 30. 

And all of a sudden, I found out what Georgia Tech was all about because I started my roommate was from Tennessee Tech would norms summer. And I knew I had to make a 30 or I was out and I was out for good because I had no money. I'll recourse had $500 that my father loved me. They pay for that first quarter. And he said I to that you're going to have to pay your own way. And I knew about work to figure it out. I can make enough money just to pay the next. I could do it one quarter at a time. And I went at the end of the sixth week. I was flunking everything. I thought I didn't understand the Georgia Tech system wasn't like my college system. Will what you've made is what she got out. And I made all A's and junior college. I had one day my whole time I was there and I sit here, I was and I was making grades. It they would just shocking them. A. 

It didn't matter that they were the best goers in the clay because you didn't know that? 

I didn't know stan about grading on a curve. They didn't know yet these terrible fifth term. 

But I knew I was the best in the class, but I didn't know I was failing. And I pack my bags and put everything in my trunk. This end of the sixth week of the summer quarter, which was 10 and 10 weeks long. And I went home to quit Georgia Tech. Broken heart, broken hearted and I was flunking out and just the heck with it, I just quit. 

But I'm going to wet all the way home. I started remembering my mom's one, ladders. Winners never quit quitters, never we never could. Oh, those things, you know, set you start high. You can do anything you want to know. My grandmother told me that over and over and over you do anything you want to. And I said Here I am going home, quit. And I got home. 

And the first thing she didn't know I was coming and she was achieved through her arms around the neck. And I'm so proud of you want to tack and I'm glad you got home for a weekend. I didn't think you would be able to come home. I said I like I said, and I never told you I came home. I never told her everything. Say though Friday afternoon, Friday night, Sunday afternoon, back that I mean, I didn't pack up. I never went back. I went back to Georgia Tech and I made a 38. You are literally sat. I would not leave the campus until I got had every grade because I knew I had to have a 30. And I'll never forget my calculus professor. Wasn't near. Yeah, Dr. Ray, WE are a wife. He was a tough cookie. He was a good teacher, but he was tough. And he had a reputation. He had not given an a in like year. I general principles are general and I'll never forget. It was he was my last grade. And he said he told me, he said, I don't give A's. And he had, there were 43 students in the class. Never forget, they said, everybody told me two-thirds of the class will get an elf. This is first-quarter sophomore calculus. And I will hit. And I kept going and I stay and I would go to his office and I'd see a post them on the doors. You know, he didn't have posted. And I go out there and I'd sit until he'd come in. And I'd say he said, Well, what are you doing? 

I'm waiting to see my grade. He said, but, you know, places all over, you finish their own home, you'll get your grades. I said No, I'm not going to like get it. I went for three days. I went for three days. And finally he said, you're really serious about this RG. And I said, Yeah, He said, What do you expect? 

Expect an eye. And he said, But I don't give a I said even when they learn, he said I don't give A's. And I said, well, you know, I really think I deserved it. I just want to be right here when you post it, I said, Well, it was the third day he posted it. Did it give you and a head and a Thank God. It was 18 and I clase, there was one B and it was a math major taken it for the third time. They were three C's and anybody else flunked the class isn't tense and it was a dusk course. That's what happens when it was first quarter. 

So that was my experience and your official donated? 

I floated back to Mississippi. Yeah. I mean, but with my I made a B in English literature. 

So I was going to be equal. I can do that. I can do That's why I said etag got started at Georgia Tech. 

That's quite a story that gets dark and that funny how you had to figure out what the mentality was there. It was tough, it is tough, it is tough. It's so valuable. I learned how teamwork, my family, my brothers and sister, and my mother and dad, and team athletics. I learn learn how to learn from my mom and myself and my junior college teachers. Learn how to survive at Georgia Tech. That was what it was. That's what I mean. Yeah. 

People asked me what did you learned your checkout? 

I said I learn I could do anything I wanted to do. I could survive in that. It was, it is a survival skill than a, you can be very good and steel fails. And I saw lots of my classmates to ask. I said that yes, I'm dropping left and right, that we're smarter than me. And my, uh, my opinion, a lot smarter than me intellectually. 

But they didn't have the toughness to stick it out at Georgia Tech. And when I look back at Georgia Tech and I think all the graduates that I know a friend. And we reflect that's what I hear over and over and over. 

If you can make it Tech, you'd do anything. Yeah. 

So just decide what you want to do. And one of the things I did do because now I lost a year. 

I went to every professor and said, if I could make a very high-grade that matter, how it's pretty challenging to say the back and just absolutely be right up there. That a plus level where you give me credit for the others that I already have done. 

But they wouldn't let me do a head. 

And then organic chemistry it they let me they said If you will make an a, we'll let you have the lab, credit for the labs, the physics. Guess it if you will make an a plus, I give you the other two quarters of physics. 

So that's good. You could negotiate that. I did negotiated. They went all it happen. As a result. I got most of that. First year. I was able to jump only into mostly junior courses. And well, that's minus sign. As a result, I was in four quarters. I wasn't getting missing a year. 

And that's when my dear love from junior college and I admit I decided it was time for us to get married. And so I told I'm coming home. I'm going back to Georgia Tech for my last year straight through where you get married, a C grade. And she agreed. And so she had been the head major out of this go and the college bands when she was in high school. And I was football players. 

So that was the beginning of that time. I was I had a dream, Mang a cheerleader and becoming a coach that when that wasn't my drink really. And what I did was I made a major it and became a journalist. That's interesting because you certainly are. That's what I am today. I'm a chilling and that's how I did that. I just cheer others, but that was a beginning. 

So we went back to Georgia Tech and will probably go back to Tech. What happened when you went back home? 

Did you go to work for the yep. For Mr. 

Gardner and he was killed and the work that fall, You didn't come back to school that couldn't see? 

Yeah, It's whack and golf football. And aged every quarter when I came back, Dan Griffith had asked me to come see me every time. He said I am talking about COACHE data batch you, I want you to go and try out for football. He did that for three years. 

Isn't that something? 

And I say but I came anyway, so I was his mouth but he got a chance to see what a division. Yeah. 

So I went to work for and I did. And then of course I ended up not being a co-op degree because it didn't work. We're full quarter. Yeah, that's why I'm wondering about because I know you didn't had a clot. 

So I just worked four quarters. That work experience valuable to you. It was incredible. 

I mean, that was the next learning step for me was that I could also do well in a very technical environment, very highly educated people because I made a real impact of the collapse to that haven't been for a reason. Yeah. If there was a reason for that and going back there, it didn't break your heart naturally. I go to work and it helps you financially. Sometimes you've paid my way to go. It did have a 100 percent. That's why I'm such an enormous support of the co-op program. 

And now when you when you were cooperating and earning the money and everything, your co-op job was in Harrisburg. And so I could live at home. 

So you could let add I could pay my way for the next. Keep your relationship up with your future wife. Yeah. 

So good luck to you and you got it. She was still had major it. Yeah. She was doing her thing so and weekends I'd go down, stay in the college dorm. The coaches are let me live in the dorm and, and money. 

So I really learned how to make do, hey, let me school cafeteria with the athletes and he let me humble the chain for the gains so I could go to the game on the school bus in the cafeteria. 

So amazing how much that I want you to get in that way. All of us, that's really great. When you came back to school the next time it was spring. And you were there for the spring quarter, so you miss the whole footballs? 

That's right. That had gone by the bot. Did you find it is challenging coming back? 

Oh, yeah. It wasn't a jury had been a nightmare. And I said, You know, I won't ever come home again during the middle of the quarter. Not I may renew. I'd I'd planned to quit. Yeah. 

So just get that said, I don't have time to write letters. When I'm at Georgia Tech. It's it's nothing buts go to help me. When I come back, I'll be home. Okay. 

But when I'm there, It's going to be a zombie not out again. And that's what we did during that time that you're in school, you're focusing on school. 

You didn't have a social life and all that digit? 

Well, I was I was John to fraternity fast Sigma Kappa. Oh, you did? 

And it was the only one. The reason I joined it was because it was the only one that was active in the summer. Oh, I see. 

So you have to have something to do. Something hasn't stood and that played played intramural athletics. I paid paternity leave. Oh, well, that's good. 

So you didn't get something more. 

But that's all I did. And I ended up getting elected president my fraternity. 

So I did some things. 

Well, that was good. 

So it was, it was a full body demand periods, so to speak, even though it was somewhat abbreviated and did what did you think of Georgia Tech at by the time you had come back and you're second quarter, that spring quarter, you finish that up. 

Now you are all college meant by this time you are going to realize your dream. You knew you could be a chemical engineer. And no question about that. 

Did you stop and look around and say, What is this place anyway? 

Now, he did say this or something I gotta do, and this is what I'm gonna do. 

And I don't have a clue what I want to do in life, but I know this is part of the path and I'm going to do what my mother always said. You know, just do the best you can do. Getting talent and hard work makes a lot of Digit. 

Yeah, doesn't it though, did you find that professors were interested in you? 

I mean, if you wanted someone to give you extra care, did you get it or was everybody a hard nose? 

I guess I'm asking whether any mentors at all in that group. Not until I get all the way to my senior year. I then you embed it. 

So well, I met somebody interesting may go into graduate school, which I had no intention of doing. Absolutely none. 

Well, the first milestone was going to get out here. I was getting married and got married and I was I guess I was okay. It was 1962, so I had to be 23. Okay. 

So you will not know. Yeah. But, uh, we had we had nothing a $100. And you're headed to Atlanta for a wife that had never worked and never had a job. 

And and we'd been mayor and we'd been married now one week and we took a 100 dollars and went through the Smoky Mountains and state my roommates, parents home. I always go off. 

But I had a job for ten hours a week at the Georgia Tech experiment stations that had been offered to me that 10 hours a week. 

So that helps. And she was going to get a job. 

So everyday she would go and laugh. And we found it was on Spring Street right where the TV station is up there. 

There was a little place called Southern detectives and they had an A-frame house right down on Spring Street that you could walk to from the campus. And he had this was it warehouse and the Southern detect his own the house and they were renting it. 

So it had three apartments in it. And they was $80 a month. And I went to see the guy and I said, But I don't really have a $2 amount. 

He said will tell you what to do if you will manage the other two apartments, I'll give you 10 dollar discount. You probably saw I had enough we had gotten enough money to pay 70. 

So I had one month rent paid and we had $200. Yeah, amazing. And we never had any doubt that we'd be fine. I mean, there was I can't ever remember thinking this was a crisis. I think it'll be fine. Yeah. 

Well, yeah, one can miracle or three days she went and interviewed and she can she said Tom, they say the holiday. You're you're you know, you've been married for a week. 

Who've never had a job? 

Your husband graduate Georgia Tech and nine months, what do you say you want to do? 

Much bottom land. 

The end of the first week she got a job with American Mutual Life Insurance Company right there, one block away from the apartment. 

So you didn't have to worry about transportation to actually or any of those? 

I sell outside and worked out. 

And you lived I love, no doubt because nobody had the right Wonderful Life is that I don't get to go to work now, getting through nine months away. And and you could see that the light at the SNP, somebody moved the light. Yeah. They said, Wait a minute, you're not done in a year homework or move the light. And he said you've got potential to go on. He said, You gotta go to graduate school. And I said No, no, not me. I have got enough education. And I remember going back again and asking for advice. And I went back to see Frank gardener digit related. 

And they would try and Jaime and they wanted me to go to work for Hercules and and I everybody I interviewed, I had a job offer with and but Hercules was he was really after me. Frank going wanted to hire me. 

So I went to Harrisburg and said Tell him they wanted. I will go to graduate school. And I remember him sitting in his chair and he said, Son, I have three PhDs. I said what? 

He said, I am sitting in this chair. I'm telling you I've got at least 38 PhD's of experience, experiences. And I remember that sounded good to be here. And I went back to Canvas. 

I said No, right? 

I'm going to interview and I will start the interview and start to grab said Would you just do us a favor? 

I said what he said. 

Will you take the National Science Foundation competitive exams? 

And that's the one I want to do that. 

And he said, Because if you were to win one, it's a very, very big stop and it would pay your way to graduate school. And we get a matching amount for this go. 

So all of a sudden I felt like I was let us go down if I did do some, everybody's how he convinced me to take the exams and I took them. I didn't do it. I just went to them. And it was I remember what it was one or two days, but I think it was two days of six halves. And I was interviewing and I'll never forget, I was I had spring break. I was interviewed a whole everyday. 

I was down and Norco, louisiana interviewed and Shell chemical at lunch or an interview and I had a phone call from homework Rob, he was the head of the department accounts right now. And he said, Come on back to school. 

I say, well, why am I? 

I'm interview and he said no, and he said, You won a National Science Foundation Fellowship. Wow, and I just couldn't believe you did it. And I could and I said, No, I want to finish these interviews. He said No, I want you to come back to nine and then we can talk about more oriented to you. I want you to come back to night. And he said I want you to cancel the rest of the week. And that's it. And I in somebody's he was able to convey an idea. I got on the phone, counsel, my other interviews drawback, flew back to Atlanta. I got there. He started telling me about while to take this and I say future. 

But in a garden told me, you know, he didn't need it. And he said, but you've got to you've gotta do it. 

And the never forget, when I asked him, I said, Well, you know, I see the chemical engineering PhD students. They've been here long pair. 

They were, at that time had been there nine years that our members in the Hebrew well, but but he'd been there nine years. And I said, Doctor grub, I want to ask you something. 

What is the average time from the time a BS degree to PhD? 

He said I would say five years is a typical at that time. Was taken about to get your masters and then get your PhD. Sediba is two years for your masters it now there's three years for your PhD thesis and all of that. He said that's just what he said in most doesn't teach some and all of that time. He said that's typical. And so I said, Well, I want to think about this now. 

Well, I came back and I said I'm I ask you one more question. 

What if I said, what do I have to do to get a PhD? 

I said, what are the requirements? 

And he said, You've got to do a PhD thesis. You've got to defend that thesis early and you gotta have an oral exam. 

But before that you had to pay she PhD qualifying exams, written three days of examples. Let's say you take this class or that girl. Okay. I said Are you telling me I don't have to take any classes? 

He said no. And he said, he said but all the PhD exam questions are often graduate course in graduate courses. And this was in July. I mean, this was a I'm sorry. 

This was in just before the end of the spring, the last quarter because that's going to be graduating. 

And he said I said to you, so what do you if I were to tell you, I could do everything you just told me and do it in 2.5 years, would you not let me out? 

Because I had been here long enough and had this grace that the SKU I said, Would it just be just not acceptable for somebody to lead to finish in 2.5 years. He said, now, I said Are you telling me that if I sit right here 2.5 years now, lucky right now and say, I pass a qualifying exams, I've done my thesis, I've defended my thesis and I passed my wall in front of the committee. And you're not going to say but time you had been here long enough. He said, I promise you I wouldn't do that. And I shook his hand and I said I'm going to graduate school. 

But I'm finishing the end of February 960 six. And I'm starting in September. That'll be 2.5 years. Exactly. And I said I will be through completely. And I'm going to work on first week of March. I don't know where. And I said now. That give you a problem? 

He said No. I said Well, it the staff. He said No. I said has anybody ever done it? 

He said No. I'm all for that. 

So I said Okay, I tell you what I'm going to do. The qualifying exams said once a year. I said how many past them in the last few years. He said in the last three years five people. As to how many people took him. He said, I think about 30. And I said, Well, I'd say I will take them or they've got some will take them in October. And if I pass, i'm I'm going for a PhD. I don't I'm not going to get a masters and it'll go all the way. 

And so I'm not gonna take any courses unless they are one or two or three that I just think I really out-of-date. And he said, But I don't think you can pass a PhD exams in. I said, how many times can you flock? 

And he said want high. 

And I said, Okay, I said so maybe if I decided to take him to my flaw combated, maybe I'll take them one more time. Maybe I'll give another 12 months. And he said, Okay, nothing event. And I want to elaborate. It went to the library. And I started at Georgia Tech Library and that's it. I'm done. I said one of the subjects covered and I got the textbooks for each of the classes. And I went to the library and eyes much of the elaborate or four months or whatever. 

And I took the pH equality to talk about library morning, afternoon and live in a lab room and just sit in their study session studies. Then I went and I went in and took my PhD exams. And incidentally, even on the PhD exams, you had many of the problems. You could actually go to the library. 

They give you breaks that you could go and have two hours at the library as part of working your PhD qualifying exam. 

So the library Well, I knew the library. 

So every time I get two hours, I was raised to the library. And it helped that you would help my share. And I pass the piece they were to have is passed on that first round, the first row. 

So I have all my work. 

So when you went back to Dr. grab and told him I did it, he was 30, he was tickled. He was thrilled. 

He was given the kickback from the National Science Foundation and he was getting that, uh, you were obviously and I was going in. 

So the next thing he asked me do was to be on the bowling team when you're afraid to say that Georgia Tech chemically bonded day, we had a Big Mac and he was he was chairman. 

So I became a member Hizballah day. He just wanted to make sure you turn into a cell. 

So that's how I got to graduate school. They paid your way and it was a nice thing to live. 

Well, I ended up I did very well because I ended up getting an ethyl ethyl Cooperation scholarship and I got to Proctor Gamble scholarship scholarship. And I was hanging out once in a while is at work and I know I didn't. I worked at times a week for the demonstration experiments. 

So it worked that was conducive to what you were doing, are related to what you're doing canal engineering, chemical engineering. 

But it was a work on a contract under nasa. Okay. 

But it was killing machine, it was way out stuff. 

And I decided that was an area that triggered me for my thesis because my thesis adviser to hinder muggy, It was a great guy. And he was tracking they were four of us ended up in my clays. And the year Head of May's gone. All in our labs. 

We were very, very good students and we all went to work for Henry McKay, who was a Georgia Tech graduate. He was Georgia Tech graduates. 

So there's and there's the hearing was back now teaching Chemical Engineering and he was a Georgia Tech graduate. He was a great guy and he was attracting the very outstanding PhDs. 

And what happened was he got almost all I'm in a period one of there that went to grad school work for him. That wasn't terribly popular for the last, but he doesn't want it. Got it because he was doing research. He was doing research in addition to teach, and it was a great teacher, it was a great researcher. And he was very, very good at attracting government research, nasa funds and stuff like that. And so all of these appeals, all Ellis did very, very well. We all work for him and and he was also a great motivator of cross department education. 

So he encouraged me to take a few courses in chemistry. And he encouraged me to give seminars on a campus. They had student graduates do seminars. And he was I gave the first, he told me I was a first kill me. 

To give a giant departmental seminar to chemistry and chemistry and together from the Cavendish and apartments. 

So he was always pushing me and that's my hand. He got back to Eberhard in the chemistry department, my PhD thesis advisory board class. 

So that was ever done that, and it was, it wasn't very popular by the way. Why? 

Because that he did things that didn't fit the mole. And so he got criticism. Why you put in Chemist on your chemical engineering advisory board. That's what Georgia Tech. Today. 

But it was very positive and they were hot. It was a great chemist and teacher and Dr. 

Ziegler was the other number that he was a great thermodynamics teacher and so he was on the advisory board. Did you feel like you were in the right place? 

But I decided I was going to finish in 2.5 years and I decided that I had to pay. 

So it's quantify and exams in October the first year and I did. 

Now it left me almost full two years to do a thesis, little to use that guess, and to do that thesis. And I worked three months on what Dr. Magee wanted me to. And I decided it was a deity in area, was a very theoretical thesis and I didn't want to do that. 

And he said, Well, what do you want to do? 

And I told him it was it was way out to and dealt with propellant fuel additions and things. 

And they were highly explosive that existed only it in liquid nitrogen temperatures and hypothesize that you can make some chemicals and what the bond strengths it will be. And I set out to prove it, and I did. And I was able to synthesize those weren't my laboratories two or three times. Does these were like Yeah, it's just a passing around. It was but I also decided that the only way I could get through and 2.5 years or five years of work and 2.5 years, I want to really get through doing less, less. 

So it was just not what I was going to do and be so slick because I want slick and I wasn't so smart, but I was a hard worker. 

But I said I can do five years of work in 2.5 years, help us. And if I commit the time and effort, and basically through that two years, I work seven days a week. Oh, my thesis, mostly laboratory work in the library. And I worked 20 hours a day except Saturday night. I didn't work. I mean, I didn't sleep. I worked all night, Saturday night. 

So that was my schedule. 

So why does your wife have to say about the schedule she was working. We already had a baby by then. 

So you had your first child. 

So we're going to have a baby and she's working at the PE. 

But we're doing pretty good financially with all those college has kind of things and such. And I said I'd show us is to take five years to get through and go on with our life or 2.5 years. 

But if you let me have all the hours for 2.5 years would be through. 

And we will have sev I have this and we will have accomplished what? 

The primary reason why I went to graduate school was not because I wanted to go to graduate school. It was because number one, the school wanted me to go. And number 2, error professor that I talked to said you've got to go. 

And even if you don't want to go, because you ought to be teaching at a university level when you finished Georgia Tech. And you will never be able to if you don't get your PhD. And you don't know what you want to do. 

But you ought to be a researcher and teacher and university. That's the only way to get it. 

So that's how I reconciled in my mind that I will get it because they don't more doors. And I didn't know what I wanted to answer was a higher percentage point. 

She was our outer percent and our I'd work and slams slept four hours a night and Saturday night I work online and I do all my paperwork on Saturday nights, my thinking and writing, and that's out. 

So I did five years of work that we've done. A lot of people say, How could you be smarter to as anyone who's worked hard putting the hours. 

So that's how I got through. They literally knew who you were at the library, didn't think. Yeah, you know, and it's very interesting that I didn't get to know the librarians. When you told me I didn't get to know her personally, I always say, you know, my poor heart. By the time you were there though, she was a very elderly lady in it already. I asked her time. She was still around, but would not have been as and I always was getting people to help me. When you ask and they did and I can remember, I had to learn the library by myself. I never ask for help. And I remember took a while and she learned, but I didn't ask for I should've asked for help. I didn't say. 

Now, you kept his pace up and it was a killer pace for the whole 2.5 years? 

Yes. 

Always with the goal at the end of the line for you could see where you are going and February and it has to be through. And there's a self-imposed deadline. Yes, he saw no reason to deviate from it. The print shop became a bottleneck. Did it greatly upset? 

I had a very thick pieces and I had four weeks to have it printed in. And they said they couldn't do it. 

So I'll just go and I couldn't they would not let me have my oral without having the written and printed thesis. 

So I had to I had to go to the print shop and tell him that I'd already accepted a job to start the first week of March and it's finished. And I begged ONE and they came through for me. 

But that wasn't as important as data. Lily, tell me about done the famous John Lilly and Atlanta's Donnelly glass shop. Of course we know him well as the Georgia Tech glassblower. 

And he played an enormous role and my success at Georgia Tech that nobody would ever know tell me, because he was the glassblower and my work with some very, very sophisticated glass work that had three chambers, one inside the other that you could put electrical discharge and a total vacuum inside. Liquid nitrogen temperatures only outside. It was a very, very sophisticated multi chamber lies. And, and I designed it on paper. And he made it for me. 

So very sophisticated, challenged him, and he made it. And I blew it up twice on the right. It's amazing how challenges and I go. Form. It sounds like mother, if you drop your dishes, you wash them for await. He ate or the second time a blowing it up. Because of the material I was making was very explosive. And a view lost control of the temperature and it started heating up. It blew up and they were being shattered and I hid it behind plastic walls and stuff. And I enter the second time at blowing. I was on my home stretch and all they had about four months left that I could do my last experiments. And I blew it up again. And I went to Donald Lily. And he says, young man, three times is enough, three times is out. Three-strikes, is that and he said, If you bought up again, I'm not going to remake it. Tilt. Come see me. 

So if you're going to finish your PhD and it requires this piece of glass work, not blow it up again. Boy, and he successfully made it again. And I got through those last experiments without blowing it up again. I'm sure because I didn't want to not finished my PhD. I was kind of an odd way to end up there. 

So the print shop and my glass with very critical and the print shop and the library and the Donnelly lives of the world came and, and to my aid and Henry, Maggie was a fantastic mentor, incredibly motivating and supportive and and it was that environment that they won't be delighted to hear you say that to, Hey, I just got a letter this week from him. He's he's at Charlottesville, Virginia. And he he had seen the article about my award in the state and they wrote me a lot. That's great. 

So he's he's stay we stayed in contact. That's crazy. 

So Greg, yeah. 

So the big day arrived. Did you all through a graduation? 

I went to work first, but then I came back and graduation. Go to work. Did you go interviewing all Gan to tickles? 

You didn't have time to do all that. You won't believe how much time you can have if you planet. 

Because my interview and process was one that's probably the most interesting part of my personal life. 

When I got, I decided that the more and more I ask professors what I ought to do and what I ask when I was a co-op student, what else do? 

I got very diverging recommendations and I knew I didn't know what I wanted to do. I didn't care it just as long as I could achieve my potential. 

And it was an environment that allowed me to do that, not be rewarded for doing it with no aspirations are where that might lead. And so my professors were all saying, you've got to go and teach and do research. Gotta be a university teacher. And my thesis had won the sigmas our award for the best PhD thesis on the campus. And so it got some recognition and they just said you can't do it. I remember Dr. Newton. He was a great teacher in that Kennedy Department. And he said, You just can't go to work for industry. And he said You must be a teacher and researcher. And, and I remember him bringing me a book called The management jungle. Trying to scare you. I just don't want to work for industry. He said You don't want to work for industry. You've got to be a university, research and data. 

So I remember that I wouldn't read it because I had already made up my mind. 

So here's a case. I wasn't willingness. And I listened to him, but I never told him I didn't read that book. I said I don't want to be scared out of doing what I want to do. 

And what all of that conflicting advice I decided that I had say I've taught by sale for my PhD, thesis and coursework. Maybe the library could teach me something about careers. And so I went to the library to study careers, and I found two articles. And one of them dealt with how the people had risen to the top of major corporations. And I was being told that at that time that you are going to work for three to five companies. That didn't matter who you started, just as long as a good company. That was the that was the theory and it's even more so today it's seven or eight or nine companies. 

And that it didn't make too much of a difference where I went as long as it was a good company, that was it for. 

But then when I went to the library and I'd heard that over and over and over. 

When I went to the library, I found an article that she had done a diagnosis of how, what were the characteristics of the people who got at the top. 

And one of the shocking pieces of data was it 54% of the CEOs of the top 100 manufacturing companies in America at that time. Had only work for one company. I'm 16% had only work for too pretty and it was 20 plus years was the average time to get there. And the average age was was something like 50%. I've got your age or the age of 55. 

And what it said to me is, hmm, maybe even though on the average people change out three to five times, I don't want to be average, average acid 70 percent of the people that got to the top only worked one company or two. That was extraordinary information for me to learn in the library. And then I found one other article. And it did a study of people that had been out of school. 

And what it did was it steady compensation as a function of time and age? 

And it but it was also looking for one other thing. They were trying to prove that change in jobs as a way to get ahead. Compensation lies. And this article, blue at totally out of the water. 

The data said that if you drew a curve that kinda went up with inflation at peak that in the early fifties. 

And then it actually only average went down if you just plotted the 10 thousand people that they survey. And then it broke it down to how many places you've worked. The only one above the average in compensation, the entire curve for those that weren't one company. That was pretty clear to you. 

Then I said Now, if you believe that to two pieces of data, you will decide carefully who to go to work for. 

The first time. This has been a first where it makes a difference. And I guess one other thing is I was interview and everybody. 

How long will I know before I made the right decision and it was almost like it was stamped on people's head all about five-years. 

Everybody I talk to about five years, whether you made the right decision or the company made the right decision. 

But you and so I decided I was going to make getting a job, a time alone science. It was going to be another thesis project. 

So I set out to determine what was important to me. 

And I wrote down in a grid all the things are important to me and how important they were a weighting factor to a 100. 

And then I said every company I interview, I'm a rate of one to ten on each of those multiplied by the weighting factor. And kinda perfect score would be a tenth. And I said, that's gotta be the way I don't know whatever it is. 

And when I did it, I started out and the first company that I interviewed was dealing Milliken, which today is Milliken and Company. And I did it to practice because I was I knew I wasn't going to work for Milliken during Milligan. I never heard of them. I got a brochure. I thought they may tractors. It was John Deere tractor looking at that next step. And so but I knew I wasn't going to work for text. I've never been in a textile plant, didn't know anything about it. 

I grew up Mississippi, close to the petroleum, the chemical industry, Baton Rouge and New Orleans area. That was what I was going to do. The big oil companies or chemical companies. 

And I knew I could and Hercules and so that was, uh, my agenda was to pursue that path, but here I was Milliken. 

And when I got through interview in Milliken because one of my fellow graduate students had gone to work for Milliken and milk in research. And I didn't know why he had gone to work and I never had time to worry about it. And he called me and said, Did you get a brochure? 

I said nella threw it away. I said, Why did you go to work for a company that makes tractors? 

He said We'll make tractors. We make textiles and we had little chemical business. And he said You've got the interviews. 

So I finally agreed to come up and stay in his home because he was married and graduates go. And he and his wife invited to come and stay in his home. 

So I wouldn't charge accompany for hotel bill to interview. 

So it was okay to practice. Okay. And I did it and I got a nine out of 10. 

Well, long story short. 

Over the last eight months, I was interviewing some on-campus and picking who I was going to go visit. And I decided that I was going to interview everybody I could. And I interviewed close to 50 companies either on campus. I didn't go visit 50, I didn't have time. And I was able but I had all my questions. I had all my questions and any interviews. I had my list and I was scoring, first of all, based on the interview. And they they didn't make a certain score. I didn't even give him a second thought. 

But it turns out that I rated 50 companies, about 50. Everyone that I interviewed gave me a job offer and some that I wouldn't ever visit. And he gave me a job offer anyway. At that time, it didn't matter. My canada degree at that moment was in great demand. 

But there were three companies. They ended at the top. And it was Milliken and DuPont and Procter and Gamble. They were and they were at nine. And everything else was seven or below. 

So there was just all of a sudden make a decision. I interviewed those three companies, three tabs. They everytime I re-interview them, Millikan went up tap one time and then another dance. 

So Milliken, they ended up 9.2. And the rest of them stayed at nine Procter and Gamble and upon. 

And I said, either you believe in yourself or you doubt your, you have thought is, is discipline as you can about what you want, not what your professors told you won't not what others told you out along with my other fellow classmates thought I was crazy. 

Why would you ever think about going to work for a textile company? 

And I remember they even used to seeing you on campus. 

They'd say Maybe I have to accept that the Chubb knit one pearl two hours, you are not that megafauna. No matter what. That's what I'm going for five years. It turned out that was how I got to Milliken. 

And I tell a little story to finish it off because if I had not done that so thoroughly, I wouldn't be at Milliken today. 

It goes in my second year with accompany second third year over six month period of time, I made some big impact and elegant. And apparently that got around the industry because a major textile companies still successful today. Gaming offered me over six months time and by the end I had three children under six. Hadn't paid off all my debts from Georgia Tech, it alone from the lattice Rotary Club. I had to pay back. I had a first mortgage in a second mortgage on a new little home we had built. Then I had all kind of debts and not much money, no money. 

And so this company all from a over six months, doubled my salary and three times less hours and then four times my salary and then fat times my salary. And then said, you name the price. And I said thank you, but no, thank you. 

And I guess at how could you do that? 

I said because first of all, I've done the homework on what I won't live. 

And I said if I can get it from you, I'll get more from Milliken outlaw at and I remember that guy has said, you've gotta be good. Because I never heard anybody did that. And that's how I came to Milliken. And that's why I'm still an elegant I could my wife thought I had cracked up real. 

She thought that that 20 hours a day at Georgia Tech, you turned your mind, you have crack that she she could not believe it. 

So that was I believed in myself and I believe that I'd made a good choice. And I related myself with Milliken. And every time I rewrite it I'm after I was here, I raise this goal. 

So you could see that was the right place. 

And it was very interesting because my classmates, I ended up getting some of them to fill out the scorecard did I made an error? 

Interests was just totally different. 

So different people have different interests. Of course, I had to match up what I wanted. 

So today that's what I recommend to all of the people we hire. 

And I asked him, even though they've already gone to work for Milliken, I said You didn't go through this process. Do so. 

Now, make sure you because you're not the right place, you ought to go and find it. Like it's not going to go out of business because you made a bad mistake. 

But it can have a devastating impact on your laugh if you made a mistake and you don't correct it. 

So I spent 4.5 hours with all the new people that go to work for this company. Just answering questions in groups of 50. They go all over the country for seven weeks. Colleagueship orientation program. And that's what I spent 4.5 when I'm at the end of it, Let him ask anything they want. 

But the last 30 minutes I tell them my last story and I tell them Haslett Milliken, why I got here opportunity to leave and why didn't lay. And I said, and if you're different from that, you ought to know it. 

So that if you've got a different vision of your life and what you're seeing at Milligan, the quicker you recognize it, the better it is for you, and therefore for Milliken thoughts around that. 

So that was my great. 

Oh, incidentally, I offered to teach at is a seminar at Georgia Tech's several dad, but nobody ever wanted it. I want I feel like I'm writing. 

So that's how I got to Milliken. It's an amazing story. And once you've got here, you never look back and you never regret it. And obviously, that's, you know, you're in the right place. And I proved it to yourself. 

I don't think though that they went here because very high my mind was that I wanted to make a difference in big difference. I didn't know what that meant. And I knew that I could do research. I proved it in graduate school. I've proved it with my PhD thesis. And I knew I could do it. And I had a PhD in Georgia Tech, Milligan. And how many? 

So I had to go to work research. When I tell them I'm not going to be a researcher, our run something, I will make something happen. And Milligan said, Terrific, the right place to do this. And most of the companies said you gotta be kitten. With your background. You've gotta be a researcher. I interviewed top people. I interviewed 13 days ago. He said he's a Georgia Tech graduate. I won't say who getting his PhD. Absolutely fantastic. Stood there. And he's been told exactly the same thing, right? 

It's a discussion, mentor them all and make them. And it turns out he's he has a same interests that I had back when I was getting out of scope. And that's why he was so excited. Hello. Yeah. This is like MEK and ERK match up. Yeah, you have to, so you're going to match up what you want. 

So here you are in the company and he came in in the research division that kind of know what else I think in this day, you had your mind made up by mistake because you were you were told it was going to be temporary five years maybe for the company. 

But they said I said Hello, I'm going to have to be or is it just go get a feel for it? 

Come on endlessly. And of 18 months, I said I've had enough. Hi, You said it I want to move. And they say where you want to move. I said anywhere you want to put me. And they said, But we're a big company where, whereas I said, What about geography? 

Don't care. What about they don't care? 

I said I'll give you one request. Put me somewhere. That's so bad. Then how about it? 

Thanks. It can ever be say I can make it. I could make a difference. And they did. They did. 

But I made a big difference. I won't get any details, but I made a big difference in three weeks. And it was dramatic. And that's what that's why those offers came out a little later. People in the industry, well, they heard about it. We're very secretive in Logan, but people are always high and Milliken people. And so people laughed and they told the store, you can't keep those can see now. 

So oh, and I was then about the Callaway company in March of 960, a company in two years? 

Exactly two years. March 6866. And the day they bought it, I went said I want to go to the Lagrange, Georgia. They said Why? 

I said have you ever been there? 

I said No. They said that We just about Callaway. What do you want to do down? 

And I said I want to go on a carpet business. And Callaway had several businesses. And they said Why? 

I said because that's the future. I said I want to get right on the ground floor of something that Mr. Milken didn't buy that company. Just to look at it. He's going to make something happen. I want to be part of it. And six months later, they transferred me. That was right in the middle of when I had you name the price offer. And they gave me a $1 thousand raise to go. I never total the company ILM Alpher, way more the way they would offer me. In fact, I misheard name the price. Nobody gave me if that's not arranged them who took the Great. Thank you. We're excited about God because that was my future. And but, and it was eat that was very distro this track. 

I mean, it was it was very traumatic for my life as I guess she had at the edge outcome and I had to move the child has come at eight weeks later. I said No, no, we're husband. A wife would go together and we did the HOA. That's the family. And we stick together. And we stick together. That's what my mother dollars. You stick together. Unfortunately, Mrs. belong back to up that she did every step of the way. It's definitely thought I broke up mentally, but I married you for better, for worse, it does. 

So and that's the way the career built. 66 until 1984. You went from place to place. Different facets of the industry. From carpets to know, from research and a yarn dyeing fabrics for parallel to carpet dying. And I got there in March of 68, in October of 68. 

And in the next three years, roughly, they made me plant manager that plant and then director manufacturing of it and then the Business Manager. And then you said, Okay, I got this down, let's move on to something. 

Well, that's kept that and then it was just one business. 

But Roger Milliken put me reporting directly to him. And you've never had a he'd never had a he had three division presidents. They were all 50 FAP lesson. 

You were here, he rose and I was very young and he set that up as a separate little carpet business reporting to him. And then he gave me the furniture, fabric, feathers, and many formed a division and 70 forward. 

So now I've been there six years, but he made it made me a president. I'll be running it, but he didn't call it President. They've been made me present in 741 and running activated, still reporting to him. 

And then in 79, he asked me to take over the chemical business, which had been around for 25 years and not successful. And in too much I told him not to go out of it. And he got very mad at me. They said that I didn't give it to you to go out. I could have shut it down myself. 

And so I said, Well, you gotta give me six months to change it because I still had hope carpets and furniture at home. And so in six months we completely change at division and it became a huge success for malignant. 

So I've been a starter of new things and new businesses and repositioning of businesses. And 84, maybe the price of the company. 

And that was an extraordinary move because it was the first time in the history of a very old company. That's somebody who wasn't a Milliken syntax. And as a president of the company, how's it going? 

I was loading. It was 84, so I was I was 44, 45. 

So you beat the odds are pretty big margin. 

So that was the way it happened. 

And he needs a second, guess yourself anywhere along the way and say, I'll maybe I'll go see what plants do in our, our digital Where you at the end of my first year, at the any first year, you one of my first year. And I'll always remember the two people. 

It's amazing how you remember people that influence your laugh, even though you had and how much to do with them. 

I can remember the guy at Procter and Gamble, who was a president of Procter and Gamble, one of the divisions, that entity and those three tabs, his name is Jack Sanders. He was present on their same sounds. 

But I said I always ask the question if you were me, what would you do? 

And I said I can go wherever I want. Obviously, I've got lots of offers. And you've given me an Alford. 

If you were me, what would you ask that I haven't asked. And he told me and he told me some things that made a difference. You listen, listen. And they they they had a key part of Milliken go on habitat. 

But he was very open and very honest. 

And and then and he said You're you'd better look where corporate headquarters is because that's where you're going to be you're going to be successful. And I had a guy who was it Dupont was Ron would live. Never forget. He said, Have you ever want a job, Kami. 

And at the end of the first year, I get very upset at my boss about something very emotional and it wasn't me, it was not really, but I got upset. And it was Friday afternoon and I went home that night. And co Ron, lovely. I'd kept his folly. He gave his phone number. I called and he said You gotta work anyway, you want to Monday. And DuPont. Wonder, wow. 

So I call, I call my boss up for that phone call. And I said I want to see you and you're off. Is it not in the morning, Saturday morning? 

I said, You know, I was here. I am made the decision to join his company. He was a very key GE at recruiting me. He was outstanding guy is terrific. It was not a mentor, but he made me mad. And he said, Oh, I decided last night to leave. I gotta cut, made a phone call and I had job offer on the following ago. And I said I'm not going. I said the reason I'm not going The reason I was gone because you guys had a good enough reason. I got enough reason. I say but I want to tell you why. Yeah. And we did. And about an hour later I said now, why don't we decided I'm not going to leave. 

And that you empower me today what I'm live because he was sitting on top of him and he said, You got it. 

So I did I was I was the only town others where we'd lots of offers all the time. Yeah. Did you have fun back at it? 

And find the 66 to 84? 

If you ask. What Tom allows, the obsession is its people power. 

And people power means heaven, big challenges, demanding challenges, and having fun doing it with joy. And so that's what I did. And I did it all my life and I was having fun all the way. And only because I was accomplishing it. 

And when I went to work for Roger Milliken directly, he had to have my urine review every year, the owner of the company. And that was I was in my early 30s. And not a year has gone by. And about 30 something years reporting directly to him that I haven't told him the same thing. When I quit having fun. I'm go along and they won't. It won't be anything personal. It won't. Because I made a mistake. Anxious. It's quite be in font. 

So when you ask me the question, was it five? 

Every single year? 

Since the day I started important Am I told him that? 

I said Don't ever, one of his mentors though taught me something. 

That's de France OG Kingsley was his mentor and he's a great guy and theater over in a building where you had came for the summer challenges of France's kings theater. He was his mentor. And I used to be in the guest house with him quite often. And when it cause I was working on the grinding and come in here. 

And I said, I always ask people, what are your, what are your key learnings in life if you weren't going to share me one or two things. What are your lessons and you would share with me that turns out to be a great question to ask. And I asked Mr. King's of that. He said, First of all, don't ever let Roger pay you so much money. You can't be your own man. Never forgot that. And I told Mr. Morgan that. I said Mr. login, you will never pay me enough money for me not to be my own man. And I said, and your mentor told me and he probably knew. And he knew it was true too. 

And I mean, it wasn't a threat, it was just a statement because he always rewarded they very, very well. 

But I said. Thank you. And them alone, family, thank you. That's reward. 

But then I will have fun down. 

So here's always give you those, venture, those. 

So it seems like a little thing, but it's not one of the things that, that Milken's become so famous for that you oriented was this quality program, quality in manufacturing. That people customer service can be there even on a production company. And that employees can actually have vested interest in their company. 

Was that just the combination of everything you had learned your whole life come to one focus? 

Yeah, but limited happened. How did it happen? 

Remember that football coach had told you it had such an influence on my couch. There'll be Holden job coach and there'll be held when Mr. Milliken read the book, quality is free. He was at that time 65 years old. 

And we were and that terrible downturns of of the business that was in 1987 and add 8080, terrible business period 8081. And he went the veil with his family, which he did every year. And he came back and he read his book called quality's free. 

But Phil Crosby. And he stood up and told us, he said this is a dramatic book that I've read. It talks about managing people completely differently than we ever out. 

And he said, but it also says that if you can make this change and the way you manage people, you can dramatically reduce waste in your system that people are the yellow ones can eliminate your people. 

And he said, I don't know any said is 22 percent of sales is the typical average better manage company. And he said, well, he said, You know, and I don't know if he's right or not. 

But he said, but Eve, who's half right? 

Instead of us moaning and groaning a nation our teeth about bad business. Why don't we work on this? 

And we ended at so of course everybody says yes, yes, yes, Mr. Milliken, very dynamic leader. 

So he invited Phil Crosby to combat was on Sunday morning a to the January, January two, but it is on Sunday. We don't we don't pay any attention to days. 

And so we started and he tried to get Phil Crosby on the phone or education manager get Phil Crosby on the phone. Phil Crosby, Sunday morning, He said, I don't work on Sunday as well. In any case, we gotta we gotta one of his people, he still wouldn't come. You didn't know Melaka and he came. 

Now, that was how we started. 

But then in a matter of when we had a big meeting at panel Georgia 980, told this story when the Georgia Tech Group was up here and you couldn't possibly remember it, but it's like a point in history for Milliken because we had Phil Crosby to come in and we put for the first time ever, and it was called our pursuit of excellence one. And it was in February 980. And so we went down there and add 3 and Phil Crosby was the key speaker, and boy, they give it. 

But then as we and we decided to go to his quantity college, I was at first wanted to go down and take a group of 12 and I fail the course. I failed the course because I was a division president, the first division president to go. I took my division and we all decided it was a bunch of buck. We call it snake wholesaling. And so we said This is terrible. And then right at the end of the three day of the week of that it was a week. The week I showed a little video clip. And they interviewed about three CEOs of companies. They were all small companies. I never heard them. And they own the videotape, talked about how they embrace these concepts. I had it dramatically change your company. 

But that was the last thing he did. And we've been through all these lessons at all and every night we just went out and had Fanon town. We didn't work or study all the way back. I was thinking about that film. And I said, My God, this thing is unbelievable if he would hate true. 

So I've got at the airport, Atlanta airport and I told the toilet, we huddled together and I said, Guys, I'm going back. 

And they said, Well, you mean you're going back? 

I said I think I have just blown the opportunity for Milliken to every embrace crowds because if we go into our roger Milliken, it's no good, it's no good. It's over. It's trust. I said I'm going back. I don't get to have more motivation that report to you guys. And I'm going back. And I came back and I went to see Mr. Milken. He said, Well, you know, they said He said Phil Crosby told me some. Said What's that? 

He said, Mr. Milken, you can't change your company. How you've been managing it for 40 years your way. You can't change it. You've got to find some horse that can. And I remember he looked at me and we will walk and walk and ride across the ground right outside. His guest asked I wanted a bill and he said that might be yeah. Yeah. The horse. He said it might be they didn't say asked me. He said, maybe you'll be that horse. And I can remember. I said he just gave me a big challenge 980. And I said I had a place at Amelia Island, Florida. And I told my wife we were gone the Florida for three days to think. And I went and I walk the beach. And four and I started asking myself, what would coach hold him did? 

What would DO beholden do. He was a great people motivator. Unbelievable. 

He motivated people beyond their wildest dreams of to achieve and bottom gathers attain like they'd never dream they could be. And then he was a great strategist a bit. He beat his competitions with average players and did it year 8, year eight year. And I said, I got some business. That's business. Has it different. 

I said what would he do? 

And I decided that we're going to radically change their approach to people. And at three days I said he'd have a pep rally. He bring the players together, he get the players in the middle of the day. 

So I I went through that process. I came back and I told Mr. Mulligan a calling. I said, you know, landing what he told me. He said Yeah, I told you that. I said I want to see how serious you are. He said, Well, what's that? 

I said, you know, all of Milliken. You want all Milliken. You run it your way and his great. 

But you say money to change. Are you willing to let it change? 

He said, Yeah. I said, well, let me see how serious you are willing to change. You run the company by having an incredibly strong support staff. 

But a lot of people call it Roger millions police force. They are out there to make sure you do it your way. 

I said, I want to ask you if for the next year you won't let any of your people come to my meetings nor you at me do my Give me one year. He was dead. He said, Well, I don't believe and not asking for help, I said I don't eat. I said I'm only here because I always ask for help. 

But I said I need to cut the string. And if it doesn't work, then you haven't lost anything. I'm the only one present download Georgia, the rest of out there in Spartan Berg, they can't do it. And he said do it. And I asked myself then again, what would though we hold them do. And I put into play so radical change and approached environment of people. And I create what I call the Super Bowl environment. I said business is no different at that time. A buddy in business now, 66 to 8014 years. I've been running a business now for several years. I run a division. And I said, What I'm gonna do is unleash the power of the people. And if I was an athletics, how would I do it? 

And I say it was my mom. And I said, what is the most successful athletic team and America, the Super Bowl. Whoever wins that Super Bowl is the epitome of success. And I said, I'm going to create suitable back. That's what DO be held on Monday. And so I set and I asked my say f of y is a Super Bowl successful. And I wrote down a 100 things as I can do a 100 with it. 

So then I asked myself, what I've always learned to do is ask a reverse question. 

If I came right down in a very few things, what's important? 

The way you answer that quite often is ask yourself, well, if I didn't do this, would it kill it? 

So you say, Well, I asked myself what would kill the Super Bowl instead of what made it successful. I said because if I could come up with a real short list, that's the answer. And I ended up with 51 with school boards. Visible that you can see. There were no Super Bowl School Board tab and scope. 

The chances you have a cat, would you have a 120 million people watching on TV? 

Now? 

You may have the people in the stands, but probably not even there, but certainly not on TV or second year, but not after that. Why did they had didn't have a championship? 

Championship or read something you're working toward. That's the big one that you can do repeatedly from year to year. 

And I said, and then I ask the question, you know, for instance, I ask myself, what the Super Bowl you got 220 million people watching. What about the Provo two weeks later? 

Dial this dollar from both legs, planted each other. 

But then I plan for anything, their plan for individual glory. And people don't pay attention. Championship, know championship, you don't have a suitable environment. 

And then in the Super Bowl that they want to know next, what was the most valuable player? 

And America, different Japan. 

So there we were. I said now, boy, those are three. I said are there any others that said what did he had AFT stands. What did he had no fans in the stands. Tv but nobody scream and holler. No ban or cheerleaders. Gotta have cheerleaders. Gotta have fans in the stands cheering and scream and Alan create excitement for the players. They play beyond ever what they drain. And that's it. Finally would've any I haven't got there behind ahead teamwork. And I said that was a five. I said, Why can't you do an end business? 

And that's what we've been doing ever since. 

So 20 years ago we launched the simple concepts of creating the Super Bowl and back. 

And that's why do you walk through these? 

So that's what you saw when you were here exactly what you saw, visible scoreboard, TAM and scores and people keep it rather than when people were in the tan. And then we put into place massive numbers of recognition events. We put into the quarterly sharing rallies, pep rallies. 

Deborah helices, or the excitement of counting again, when people come into being able to present and voting own how good they are and having winners coming out of this guesthouse day afterwards to celebrate together every 30, and then handed the year down to Sydney auditory him the most valuable players at top 5% get elected by their peers. The teams of the year gets selected. Massive. We have, as a result, we have today three fall evenings of nothing but recognition. 

One for the People at this site, one for all of our manufacturing people, and then one for all the company. And he didn't see up back leg Zell at bag. 

That's one I wouldn't team awards for individual words a second, but we created a gazelle awards because I've satisfaction graded top gun for the leaders of the business as it got very superior, finite or the wing but Award for the support people that helped them get it. The wing when the Top Gun partners Award for having wonderful with a given customer. 

We just put in I just put in one another, I think another I know that first year when you really were putting it together and you were introducing it to these people, how long did it take you to get buy-in? 

Well, what happened was at the end of the first year, they only division that it made any improvement in the scores that Phil Crosby toes we had to do was my division cell that. 

So there was some editors. 

The second year, I results zone, which showed that they began and the rest of the company went up a tiny bit. 

So that was that. And Roger Milliken did something that was absolutely wherever book written. 

It would be one of the dramatic things that changed his company because he asked for a meeting at this guest house on a Sunday afternoon of all the presenters. 

And we said in that room or that side of the guest house, the couch is round like this and mismo say, I want to talk about this two years now that we've had in his Crosby thing. And he said, it's very clear, we've made a massive commitment to this. 

But I want to hear you guys tell me what, whether you think it's really make a difference. And he went and I was a junior member that I was a kid. They were the real beings. And so he went down the row one-by-one and they said Nice appropriate little things. 

But then they got to the one of the presence that was always the one willing to be the gauntlet. And and but he didn't say much it first. And then he came to me, lysed. And I and I said, Oh my God, I said I'm fixed to alienate myself from the leaders of this company. 

So I said, I think it's important to be able to do it. And that's about all I said. And he said he didn't he had something in mind. I didn't know that. He said No, no, no. Come on, Tom. Tell them what you're doing that's different. Tell them about you share in rallies. Tell them about your recognition event. You hadn't had people cross. 

So he was taught any aware he was totally aware though he didn't come for that year. And he said, let me just go and tell him what you're doing. 

And when he got through, he looked at he says, Well, what do you think about that then? 

Any of that stuff, this was DO beheld and stuff. This one is one Crosby start now. This was there'll be held them step, create the environment. 

And one of the presence, the one that was always the flags that up and he said, I'm glad you asked for that that question because he hadn't attained because he said I want attain. We've been talking about it. And we just tell you right now there's no You got to stop that. You have got to stop it because it is wrong for Milliken. This is going to destroy this company. That is stuff that that's not the way you build a company. He said. 

And and we're sitting here and seeing you do something that we don't understand why you're doing it and why you would let that go down and Lagrange, Georgia. And then he put his hand on the hip and he just said and it just ain't Millikan. Who? 

Boy. And I said Tom logos. Wherever I go to worry about that. I remember dead silence. Investment dropped his head. 

And it must have been a minute, seem like a century to be a look that, that this President, he said, You know, you're right. I'm a hard stop. He said that hasn't been Milliken, but that's Milligan in the future. 

So feet bond because that was when he turned the whole That's one change except me. And my husband says now that was in that was an 83. That was an 83. Any major? 

Maybe for my presence. 

And he told me that was wanted those hardcore people buy in or did they go one by 11 by one they did even the real because one day they didn't buy. And by the way, as long as I was down there, they don't like they didn't do one better. 

But we made like 70 percent improvement while they make 15 percent improvement. Got to look at the number. And that's why I got my present a coupon. And so then when I came up here, I've told them We're going to start sharing rallies. We've been having Sharon when I was down there for years. 

They worked and they said, You can't do that up here, tom, you're the young kid, you the new young president for you. No. You can't do that. The pros are people tabulate. I had got in and I said But, you know, nobody has to calm. You guys don't have to go up. And they said, Well, nobody, uh, come. I said, Well, that's okay. I said that day what we're gonna do, we're going to have a firstname next week. 

He said, Well, nobody's been working on having felt like I said, Oh, I just let him come talk about their department. 

I will let every department of this site and they were 32 them contacted him to come and they go have 10 minutes to tell what they do to the Homebrew acid. You know, the you know, the people when you walk through this building. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I said okay. 

Well, let's let's just walk through and let me just understand. 

There's of course, they couldn't they'd been working for 2030 years and they write a OpenOffice planning, but most of them, they didn't know. 

Now they knew a lot of them, but they didn't know a lot of As and how would you like to work 20 years and know the gods woken right by everyday doesn't know yet. I see. Do you ever thought about my badge? 

I never wear name badge. Women would never do that. 

Well, of course, they did. 

So does the budget. 

But we had that first year and rally. 

And the guy that was head of all of our engineering, he was a Clemson graduate while a story of a great guy. And he was very near retirement. And he was a very tough, hard-nosed. They've never smile like out. 

And he worked directly for this MOOC and build it to so it is all they said, Well, you know, want to store is not going to do that. I said, Well, don't ask into I'm going to go ask everyone. I'm Will they do it where they just come in and tell us what they do. 

And then we go and when we get through, we're going to ask the room to vote on who did the best job of telling their story. 

I sound we're going to talk about any projects or when no process, just what they didn't do it for last 10 years. And when we did, I'll never forget. I said I will give a plaque, that one it gets the best one. They had said, I'm just going to select them, not me. We voted and we'll get through. Guess who won the award? 

Mr. story, problems are and as he came down yeah, two years or three years away from retirement. He came down as he approached me. 

He had teachers, of course, because everybody wants to be and the rest of his time in the company, he always told me. He said You can now, that was one of the greatest moments of my life. Everybody, I only work from this to Milliken. And the other people never really knew what idea. 

And I said how about the people out cut and the grays in ten into yards? 

I said, do you think they'd like to tell their story? 

And they did, and they got a chance color Sharon rally. And for the first year, not a single president K. They really didn't. They stayed away. Yeah. 

But boy, I was there. The people were come in like bad and telling their stories and win an award. And then we had another meeting. Oh, and I guess I misspoke. I said answers, you know, hasn't gone home. I said, Well, it's going good. He said, but nist mountain K2. 

But the other presence had together decided they weren't going to come get him break. He said, You know, admissible when we've finished, he said, You know, it's kind of funny. I said I mean, he said I think dawn of those say it's unbelievable result. He said and but I've had two or three say they sure wish their presence always there. Yeah. Saudi said they have to tell spot that mess anymore. I'm talking about a company that's the most incredible uniformity of leadership. 62 years this year. He's 86 years though he changed the company radically. It when he was 69, radically by empowering somebody to do it and support. 

Well, It's amazing that he understood that he couldn't be the horse that you have. You'll cause we told him that any of us and he listened, time is really critical. And he said, You gotta then fan the fire. 

But there's a gap because I wrote that I went to all kind of industrial psychology and all they said You can't change. 

So I'm adding that okay, change. 

Well, he's wrong. Raj millions the epitome of change. And there's nothing more radical change. How do we deal with people? 

And he embraced it with a passion, like he does all kind of change. Alone, There's no doubt it worked. The system works. 

If we call it a system with a mentality of a quality improvement programs. 

Because you had scientific evidence to back it up, right? 

It didn't take very long before you could show on paper with percentages, with numbers that don't lie or we can always had that. You had we had these scorecards. 

So from day one, you knew what you were doing when they change, you sell a result. It wasn't theory. 

So you worked on it here in Millikan as a president do and incorporated into all aspects of Milken's like that, then you took it beyond that. You reached out beyond that. Tell me the process for that. 

What were the ramifications of being successful? 

Well, the key thing that opened the door for us to share was actually came about because of requirements. 

A lot of us, and we decided in 198788 rather, the first year, the Malcolm Baldrige National Quality Award. We ought to compete for the Super Bowl environment, for the soup while. And we said, you know, if I love anybody, like anyway. And we never really knew whether we'd well or not. 

But we said, want it be great to try to win a Super Bowl of Quality, the National Quality Award. 

So we set out to do it. And the first year, we gotta be Motorola. Thetas will just probably a good thing. I was going to happen to us was that there was one area that was lacking in our process. It was very significant and it was in statistical process control. We had not done it in a world-class way. We controlled and different techniques, but we didn't use that. And that was very important in the Baldrige Award. 

And as a result, we ended up eventually learn that, well the next year, we obsessed, we were obsessed with becoming world experts and as statistical process control. And we said, Baghdad, we know we're better than Motorola. And but they want it because they're doing the whole thing better we are. And so we, and the next year we won. 

But one of the requirements was that if you want, you had to share your story with others for a year. What a good requirement. 

So we set up to do it and we had massive responsiveness. 

And we ended up having literally every single week at theater full of people from other companies, like learning from us. 

But one of the requirements we said to them as they came was that we would let them come to a theater full of people. 

But inevitably then some company will want to come back and do their own benchmarking. And these were who's who of American business. 

But I had already learned myself as a young business leader that things learned about individual was not transferable. An individual item sales could not move an organization. 

When Roger Milliken, he had to create the environment and have the horses that can make it happen and encourage the horses, but an individual couldn't do it. 

And so I had already seen people visit Milliken over the years and we had had people visit, include myself and tried to study benchmarking performance elsewhere. It never happened. 

And I, so I concluded that if we were going to have all these visitors coming and groups, that the only way that would allow them to come is are the top 10 to 12 people came, include the president, CEO, because if it doesn't, you can't do it. And that's what happened at Georgia Tech. And you know that it's positive and it's, but it's hard to sustain the language. Don't sustain it. 

It just doesn't go if there's no continuity or liters and the leadership and some believe and some don't believe. 

But I decided that we were going to bring them and let them come with a comp 10, 12 or more, and that they in turn had to get the calm. They had to agree to let us benchmark them. 

So if they were and that was they had to tell us they were with us, what they thought they were the world's best at. What was the very best thing they did, and we would go benchmark. I'm not found out. We had to take 10 or 12 people to do anything about it. 

So this whole thing of sharing became number one, sharing from the Baldrige Award. Also sharing with the world's leading companies. And they were all over the world. Only they'd let us reciprocate. 

So it opened the doors for us to learn from the world. I can great network monitoring. 

So over from 990 then to 990, three or four, I think we had over a 100 thousand executives come here, over 10 thousand companies. And it was who's who of the world. 

And so that's, and as a result of that, they were awful lots of opportunities and to spread the message. And it's the whole movement in the Young Presidents Organization, which I was a member of. 

Six of us, decided to make that a core issue for the 2500 companies that were members of that organization. We launched it. I launched it and got Phil Crosby to be my co chairman for it. 

So we just began to spread it all kind of places. It had a great impact on a lot of companies. Industries certainly did. And we were very fortunate. 

And I think as we look back, we every time we 11, we set a goal when another one because it was when another Super Bowl, one another so that you can keep on coming. And I think we're the only company that I know that is one all the major quality awards in the world. And wow, what a client we want. We want the US Quality Award the second year. We want the European quality work for all of Europe. 

The second year they had it. We've won the TPM prize. We want more TPM prizes and all of America. 

But together, all our companies, We've had 20, 26 plants now when the TPM prize in Japan, huge celebrations of our teams. All I'm go It's a big event every year. I think all of America is 1, 5 or 6. We 12025 or six, something like that. 

So, but we have use those as wonderful goals. Strive to be the best of the best to win the Super Bowl. And it's part of the Super Bowl environment. 

So what do you think about a lot of, you know, what, what drives people, what makes people excited. They want to be the best, and they ought to be the best that they do the right things to catch hold. 

And ever now, he took his philosophies and apply them all oddity read while he lived until he was 8085 or six, I can remember I put on for his 80th birthday. I had a huge event for him. And we had several 100 people come from all over the world. 

So he knew, and he knew that I was having big success. 

That mean, he died before a lot of these other things, but but he knew in and I remember we establish Adobe Helen scholarship his name. 

And I had a big beautiful montage of three poses foreign painting that we gave him that's in the library. That college, that's his wife is still living. I get a note from her every year. 

So he was he knew why he was my mentor. And that's always under H0, always disclaim that he had any impact on me. That kind of hers. 

Well, that that's fine. You know, better. 

But what's interesting is that as I talk to people that through the years that played for him, I'll say the same thing on it. He had the same kind of impact on them. 

But I would just want And he I don't think he ever understood the breadth and depth impact that he had on others. And it was his teaching. 

Philosophy is his ability to treat every person as an individual, not asking me, how can you do that? 

How can you know you are a year or two years of college here to football season. There you're 18 months. I play one season, spring training, one more season they go. 

How do you do it? 

And he said, Well, first of all, you gotta know that every person as a person and an individual, you have to treat them individually. And he said, and he said, Hey, there, you got to take some big pictures. 

He said, but he said there are people that if you kick on one time you kill them, they will kill for you. 

But if you kick them, you just collapse them. And he said there are other, he said That's not too many people. He said then here's another group down here. That they, the more you tell them how good they are, the worst they get. He said If somebody, if he's talking about athletes. Yeah, So you gotta know. And he said, and then the rest is in the middle that you gotta do some of both. It's the Oh, it's the fran target and thank you. Encouraged you slap on the back, you kick the most number in that bucket that you do, some of both. 

But he knew and I said, But how do you decide which kind of person they are so quickly? 

And he said, Oh, that's easy. I said, Wow. 

He said first about a color Haskell code instead, what motivates this person? 

Kick and praise combination? 

He said Then I call their mother. Their mother. He said When I talk to them, I know. He said I don't miss one out of 20. Isn't that amazing? 

Just how, what motivated him as a person. 

So did his homework and everybody can be there because he knew that's how he won. He won by people being better than they thought they could be. And then he made him where he got told them to teach, work together as a team. And he was a brilliant strategist. He was an absolute business trip. I use his business strategies everyday cuz you knew they were that work. How do you beat competition? 

That's what it's all about. You've each competition in the marketplace, believe it or not, the same things. And it's how people are doing their homework and developing a game plan to be better than him. 

Hey, that's, that's my that's my whole philosophy around athletics and the people, things built for my mom and my dad and ham. 

And all of these things that built the quality program at the same time goes hand-in-hand with success has been a success rise business. And that other people couldn't see for a good and C. 

But we had one other thing we put in place. You've talked about scoreboards were only scoreboards for quality and reworks and waste. And I'll ever though, we had there forever, Raj amalgam has been the leader quality. All laugh. Not a lot. 

I've had a name and they didn't got a pursuit of excellence and it didn't use this approach to people. 

But he was always a leader that, but one of the things we did now that Buck Rogers, who was on our board of directors, they called him Mr. IBM. He wrote the book, the IBM way. When he retired at the age of 55, is the youngest president worldwide IBM marketing. And he came, we brought him here because I was always looking for people myself. And to bring in, in, this molecule would always reach out when I'd brings. 

But in any case I forgot exactly how we identified Buck Rogers is one of the guys. Want a break. No. 

I got him to be our speaker at one of my one of our meetings in New York and in New Jersey, Meadowlands. And he came as a speaker and he was a great speaker. I said missed ONE. We got to get that guy, bring it down here. We did and we're going through and I talk about people have an impact. He said two things. He said number 1, you've got a great environment you've created for people. 

But you really have to do a really understand about people. They aren't all the same and they aren't all equal. 

You gotta force ranking people to identify, not number one, Who's the right at the top and who's at the bottom that you need help. And he said, That's one thing a day. We embraced it with a passion. 

He said, The other thing you gotta do is you gotta get a scorecard for your customers, like you have your plants. 

And we started that method of measuring because of Buck Rogers, independent outside customer satisfaction. And we embrace that with a passion like we had done all these other things. Roger Milliken embrace everything with a passion. He wants to do it the best it could be done. And when we did, I started doing something I've always done. I use the facts and data and AI and allows him every way you can analyze. 

And it wasn't but three years into it, 84 to 87 that I realized those goers that we were getting outside where they raided us against our competition in 24 things was absolutely the roadmap to how to win. The, There'll be hold a kind of analysis that's what he would do. He would analyze the bejesus out of it. And then he decide here's what we gotta do. Datums. I said there's our SCCOE board and I might even have a care whenever we're ago. This is amazing now. 

Analytica hard and a little conquered Iraq with everybody AS and on the front of it is a one-page statement. Have Milliken went that coward? 

It says on the top, it's a database. The profit impact of Milliken strategy database result. And that's there, There's 18 years of customer satisfaction. 

On the back is our Business Basic and people values that I said, you gotta put it on a paper so that people know what you're all about. 

But that's how you when I said that car being the focus that card tells you exactly what you did win. 

And it's 18 years of surveys of where we rate every customer rates as relative to our competitors on all of these things, one to ten, 110. And that data tells you exactly what you have to do to win. 

Now you have to make it specific to a market and a competitor. 

But this data, this is, this is the customer in a quality. They don't lie. That was the second thing that came out. 

What was the change in people's second was a very different way of thinking about the customer and get facts and data. 

And we were shocked and our first customer satisfaction and customer focus we were and you thought you were doing we thought we were great and not something dataset. I see what you got to be willing to risk. 

Something like that because it might do something about it and then do some of that same thing with the morale of our people. Risk the truth. Do the morale of our people every year, every department. 

As a result of this, the morale of our people since we started this 980 is gone, which it was, it was for 30 years, an average of 70 out of a 100. They have 90. I mean, it's phenomenal. They're empowered, they excited. We've had company after company to company come through here. And when they are never forget when Exxon came the top 12 people in a chemical division. I spent three days you're studying. And they came at the end of that three days. I will never forget being in theater. And they said they wanted to come for three days. I told them they can only come with a dozen, um, and the president game, and they did. And they said, we have studied 50 something companies try and understand. This was a 980. This was 1980 to 90. 

And they said, We concluded that the company that has continued these concepts, that started with Crosby, I said we did do this, done it the best is Milliken. And we want to come and see why. And they said We don't want to talk to Roger Milliken and Tom alone until the end. And so what happened? 

Roger Miller was gone, so we didn't have any chance. 

But they spent three days. 

And I remember going to the and they split into teams of 43 and forward when all over the company plants, all over this site. 

At the end of it, they came together and I said, Well, one nail for an afternoon at two hours or Tom along, just ask questions. I went and had no clue what was transparent at night they met by themselves and compared notes. 

They were really intently trying to understand because they said they told us they said we did have done everything, you've done, saying consolidate everything. And I was able to improved. And then I started to have users have continued. We don't understand it. And I'll never forget. That day was the day that I can remember. 

I had been thinking about this myself because lots of people who come here and you tell them and they leave shaking her head. I don't know how are we going to do what we saw at Milliken. 

And so I got there and the very first thing happened, the president stood up to have them on one row and that sine theta. 

Now down here, Sydney. And he stood up, he said, You know, we've been here three days. 

He said we have going into your search lamps, we'd go in your offices, data process, and we've talk to your people in your shop. We've talked to some people, literally a janitors. We've been to several of your plants. He said, We have come to a conclusion that we have never, that everything you're doing, we're doing. We think he said, But there's one thing we've all identified that we don't understand. He said a proof where we have gone no matter who we talked to with no Milliken management relative. I mean, didn't matter. 

He said we, as a group have concluded we have never seen people work and harder or more excited about what they were doing and having fun. Fact morale. And he said, and we don't understand it. We don't know what we would go back and teach our people. And I said, Well, I'm going to risk being an absolute, appeared to be an absolute screwball. Because I will tell you a story that I've never told anybody. 

But I mount faults of trying to explain. 

If I was going to explain to my family, what would I tell them? 

And I said I will tell you like you were my family. And I said, Please don't think badly. I mean, if you think it's really silly. And I tell him the Super Bowl story. First time ever I told it. And nobody and I was dead silence. Know it was there were 12 stone face looking at me. And I remember looking and I said I have made a fool of myself. How can I ever tails such a foolish thing that That's what we're doing. Because I'd never verbalize it. I'd never verbalize that to anybody, but I've been thinking about it. And so I did because they were so intent on learning. And I said, Let me try with you. And I did. And I remember the president finally I had to like two minutes. They were dead silence. And I just kept my head down waiting to be goodbye. And a presence down. It's as simple as that. It was all around us and we can see it. He wrote me a three-page letter. When he got the 90, went home. I should say that letter for the records. I didn't I should have because I always get so many anatomy. I just pass them on and they disappeared somewhere. 

But he wrote me a letter. 

He said, I've never, He said here I've been president of x i and chemical revision, highly successful company. He said, and I thought I was a people person. He said, Bhante. The more I thought that simple little Super Bowl story. He said it was like a club. My it he said it was so obvious. He said I couldn't sleep last night. 

He wrote it the next morning so I couldn't sleep plays like asking myself, how could I miss that? 

How can I not see that? 

Even when I was immersed in it? 

He said, but when he gave those little fat pieces, he said, Dang, that's what they're doing. And all of a sudden, it was clear to him. 

And he said that he said you all the other they said, but though that little example made it clear difference, now that for that game, enough courage than to start using a terrific read. And then I started talking about an inelegant because I found out I could go into any play it. Everybody business. And they're sad. School boards aren't there. Promise you they won't be as severe. It's not going to work. Yeah. And they have to do it their way. It's gotta be there. 

They got everybody can understand the Super Bowl, everything, even if you're not a football fan and apply that to your customer. And there's, that's where my business. I know it works beautifully. It does, but people have to buy in to try to make it. 

But you don't get good scores just because you won't do it because you're nice and you smile and you earn the wind. And you've got to have the school board to do it. They don't give away. And almost now remember Bob Gavin? 

Yeah, No, Bob Gavin very, very well. And of course he was, he and I kind of put this university challenge together. Then I got Georgia Tech, NC State to do it after it was already over. And I call I call back crease and I said Pat, I don't understand why you didn't respond to that. This could be great for Georgia. 

But nevertheless, I, I'm, I'm on the President's Circle, Bob Galvin. And and and he said, you know, time. I said, What did you guys learn from us? 

He said two things. He said, number one, we would have never done what you did and the people area. He said You absolutely blew our mind. 

He said, but the second thing, we never knew, we never considered doing a customer satisfaction survey. He said, You changed our company. Wow, through hard times now, but they're going to be fine. I got you started out saying you're going to make a difference. No doubt you have. 

So that's the National Academy of Engineering. 

I've told that I've shared that story with a National Academy, I've shared it with the President's Council and I've given lots and lots of speeches. 

But I quit doing this beaches after seven years or eight years, I do. 

Well, it's like dropping a stone in the water. The ripples just go out, go out and we can't see the shorts. 

We don't know how far, very gratifying I get letters and let me tell you what's happened since six years ago suddenly and it's never too late. 

So sine goes on. 

So that's what we've done. We've tried to spread it. We continued our sales to learn from them, yeah. And what's the starting thing as we, we went back to Japan in about five years ago now, that's 1997. And I, we've been in this 13 years. We made dramatic results. And we sent a team back to Japan to go and restudy to see what. And we saw some stunning improvement from what we've seen in the early eighties. And we found that they would just two or three things. 

That they had chains that were totally fundamentally all dealt with people, how they did it and how they approach in the system. We embrace those. 

We made as much progress in 9898 to 2001 as we've made the first three years, is 980, just by fine tuning that I'm looking and looking, and that is our data. Always in flux. It's always dynamic, it never becomes dead. It's add Roger Milliken philosophy. The biggest room in a whirl is a room for improvement. If a carpet with Milliken carpet feel quite uncomfortable, right? 

But it's true. Tell me about Tom alone, the mayor that tell me about your family. What makes you tick? 

And I'm a family man from the beginning. I like it. I love everything. I love athletics, I love fishing, I love it. I love everything. 

But I don't have time for I got to thank my family and my job, and they're inseparable. 

And there was a time that the family comes first time the job that you have to prioritize but there yet and they know that. Tell me, let's go in order of age. Who was the first child? 

Well, the first jazz Debbie, and she was born in 60. 

She was born while I was at Georgia Tech graduates assume you didn't tell us when she was four? 

He was born while I was at Georgia Tech. 

So that kind of pigs or Abby has children. She has three children, two girls and a boy and they were McKenzie and Sidney Coleman. Our second daughter, Tammy's married she's married to bury babies when they live in Charlotte. And then just turn on time. He has two children. She lives on Lagrange, Georgia. She's married events from Grafton and they have two daughters, Iceland and Caitlin. And so we have fat. 

The other three aren't married. My son is a next child. He went to Georgia Tech Scott. He I did. I have an alkyl able my children and then Lisa is the next child and she lives in Atlanta. And the fourth fifth child is a Christian and she's a glassblower and she's living in August. You say you have four daughters and one son, right? 

So she's a glassblower. How interesting, John Lilly. And incidentally almost all of my awards. 

When you walk with a bill and you'll see hundreds of awards of a top gun, which is a 14 Tomcat jet in one battle. The wing when Award is an F 14 jet to I'm sad, besides support. 

The gazelle is a glass bottle and it makes mile Does he saw all the awards that I had today than I give all those glass award Donald bikes. 

Now Hassan makes most of the time hesitating on most of it, but but she is she's a glassblower and That's quite interesting. Teller, I keep telling him that emulate non, but she wants to do her thing. 

She was very artistic problem and I've always had a philosophy letting the children do what they want to do. I'm very probably err on that side, but I've always believed can't tell. 

You can't force people to do things that they feel like they're doing it because, uh, you isn't the only one that went to Georgia Tech? 

Yeah. Did any of them follow Chemical Engineering? 

He didn't eat it. 

But now I was going to say I did do a little influencing how Scott I'd like to say because he wanted to he decided he decides he's going to Georgia Tech. And I said, Okay, he was a good student, but it wasn't a great student. 

And when you looked at what? 

When he came along these 32, now, the student quality been going up, up, up, up. His competition was a lot tougher than what I got there. 

So I think he's a smart as I am, but I think I couldn't get in tech today. And it was going to be marginal for him. And so I just ask him one question. 

I said, Do you want to go to Georgia Tech or do you want to graduate and you are today? 

He said I will graduate. I said then I'm I'll give you some advice. I said, Why don't you go to a smiles go. Not because you did it. 

But I think that I would not have made it a Georgia Tech about an entity as a freshman, I wasn't prepared mentally. I was prepared academically, I was prepared. I was I would have quit. In my opinion. I said go to a small school, but a really good one. And if you do really good, your freshman year, then transfer to Georgia Tech has collapsed. You don't know your sophomore year and take it over. 

But that the facts are you will you will find out how capable you are yourself. I go into small Tesco and I said Georgia Tech will know that you can do well. And I said he was a co-op student. You will get the benefit of working. And I said, I think the benefit that you get a working while you're going through SKU is enormous. And nobody really understands and appreciates that. And most students a lot I'm, don't want to do it. 

But I said that's what I would ask you to do. He said Okay. And he did. And he went to Emory of Oxford. 

So when he has had time to go to Tech, he said, Look, this is what I'm freshman year. He did very well, worked very hard. It was 600 students there. And he did very well. And he transferred, he went to work. 

It's a co-op student for hurts holidays and he's happy, very grateful to you that he did it that way now did it in chemical engineering and he did very well and he decided he wanted to go to graduate school. And I said, Well, why don't you work a little while. He said, No, I want to go to graduate school and I have decided where I want to go. Just like he didn't apply, but one place at Georgia Tech, he never plaid an alternate school. And he planned an embryo Oxford. 

And he was lucky enough to get and, and he buy at Georgia Tech and he says, No, I'm going to do a new when you get my MBA and I'm going to run out of school, I said, Well they never go except yet. They only take people that fancy said, Well I'm going to collapse to go team. And I think he was only one of two that they accepted straight out of graduate and undergraduate. And again, his MBA. And he went to work for Anderson and and was with Andersen Consulting and then you got hurt. Anybody wants to be an entrepreneur, he wants to start his own business. He will somewhere along the way pretty soon. 

So hopefully, he's inherited, but it's not us. 

But he's not he's not a big company man like me. And that's fine. Yeah. Everybody marches to their own drama. Everybody has to be their own. And I probably err on the side, but that was one influence I detail. 

That's marvelous that unless it could influence your life has been one of influence first for being influenced by being in the right place at the right time. Had You'd lucked out with good parents, you lucked out with good mentors. And you were quick enough to take advantage of your native abilities and your opportunities. That's a wonderful blend. It gives you a blessed life. 

Well shared all of that over the years. 

I think the key thing that I learned is something my my grandmother and my mother, my father always said, you can't possibly know everything. 

But somebody does reach out and ask for help. And they taught that you can help each other in the family and others can help you. 

What I learn that I didn't know was It's amazing the number of people out there that just thrive on helping others if they are ask. And so when people always ask me and my yellow pea classes where I spent 4.5 hours. 

If you were going to give us one piece of advice, what would it be? 

I always get asked a question. And I said it's, it's a very simple answer. Seek out those it can help you. And make him a hero for helping me. And they'll make you a hero. He sets up a year willing. To be honest, which and really quite big. 

And it would be very, very selfish of me to have had benefited from so many and not be willing to do that in return. And that's our last spouse people. It's not things people. 

So I've been in a company that's that's valued, that let it happen. And I've been part of a great organization. And when you net result, we have accomplish a lot of things. We had a leader that was obsessed would be in the best of the best. He was obsessed with create and change on the premise that's the only way you can stay the best. He was willing to change himself to let it happen through his people. And it's a, it's a pretty unique story. I mean, it's a fairy. And he and I, he and I now I've added it up. I mean, he's been my balls for 30s, been run and accompany for 62. We've got between us not a years of continuity in this company. 

So we've been able to do some things, basketball, cable and measure the results, right? 

So we know what's worked and what hasn't worked. And you understand the pursuit of excellence. 

Well, we work on it and it's, and it's exciting, it's fun. Keeps haven't find it. 86. He's still having fun and I'm still having fun. I'm two years away from retirement. I can imagine. Like yesterday I was at Georgia Tech. I can imagine Tom, I'm not retiring. 

I really can't, you know, so we have policies and rules, but it will be replaced by something that will be 0. The only other thing to Haley's and Ali even will be one way or another. 

The transition to kinda come home measure of our success is whether we have really, really put into place an organization. 

Those fundamentals that alone, that card and the fundamental environment that attracts the best people in and get that we've taught them how to work together as a team in a way that when we go, the transition will be seamless. 

Now, if it's not, we didn't do as well as we thought we had. 

So that's our, that's our whole mission now, is to make it seamless. To make those people behind us run the company better than we could. And collectively, I bet they do. I bet you the next generation. 

I'm willing to bet that it's going to run it better than he and I'm willing to bet to transition because you worked at it. This has been an incredible story. We have learned so much from you and about you today. 

I think you've passed it on, which is a wonderful thing, to take the blessings and gifts that you've gotten and pass them on and make a difference. And we're both of us very inspired by it, as will be everyone who sees the story. 

Thank you so much for giving us so much of your precious time to be a part of Georgia Tech's living history program. 

Well, thank you and thanks for giving me the opportunity to tell my story and I never have told me. Hello. 

I don't know how connected it is, but as I've enjoyed sharing with you in a way that I've never shared with anyone. Thank you. 

So very important step.