Are you aware of the uses sort of the
restrictions of the uses that you can make

of copyrighted material under the fair or
fair use doctrine in your classroom and

if so what happens when you posted online
mixed with your own intellectual product

when you post it online or
the copyright issue is there and

what about your own interest in the parts
that are your product as opposed to

the parts that you've incorporated in
your classroom and on the other side.

All of us publish or
try to publish in notable journals and

shortly after you get your acceptance
you get a little copyright form to file.

Do you have options there or
do you have to just sign this.

I find sometimes to my chagrin to my
co-authors that these things get signed

without much reflection and yet
that's not necessarily the case.

So it goes on and on in how we are touched
by our interest in intellectual

property and we'll try to discuss
many aspects of that are here today.

Now publishing and intellectual property
law are very fast moving fast evolving

fields and many things have happened
in the in the last decade or two

of roughly two decades ago open access as
a as a model for publishing started one

of the notable events was the Los Alamos
pre-print archive which which grew in.

And from its original base in physics
put out a very disruptive model for

free publication free both
in the sense of the cost and

in the sense of access in the past decade.

There's been many other very
notable events such as the founding

the Public Library of Science the Berlin
Declaration on an open access and

numerous other things
seems to be one of these.

Historical events that's sort of
snowballing and we may hear about some

of these on today this panel
is sponsored by an open access

group which is to some extent an advocacy
group that the library of this

is involved with however in my view
this panel is more of an informational

event and we would like to be sort of
nonpartisan and just open the floor to all

sorts of questions you might have about
your authorship and intellectual property.

So I have convened a panel here of

some Georgia Tech faculty that I'll
introduce and one outside speaker.

So to my left is the Tayana Harrington
from el-Sisi she

teaches in L.C.C. but she's also trained
as an intellectual property lawyer and

teaches courses in that
subject ask Steve Harvey here

is from the school biology
because biology in particular has

seen a lot of interesting developments in
publishing and intellectual property for

example the National Institutes of
Health of have put out a mandate for

open access for grant funded research and

Aaron Bobet from the College of
computing will give perspectives from

one of the areas of scholarship in
which things are most rapidly moving

how we're going to we're going to
start with an outside visitor will

take a little bit longer than the rest
of us to give a presentation.

My friend a neighbor Joe that
actually know Joe from a social

networking type of event that
predated Facebook Namely

we were fellow parents on
a very soccer team at one time.

That is also a neighbor and but
Joe was a notable intellectual.

Property lawyer who has been involved
in cases involving Google for

copyright infringement cases which I
think you can start by telling her about

the best we do

about my case but you know what.

Yeah.

Why talk about yes.

Why are you going to stand by the way
tech is not played by to do that.

Thank you.

I'm going to also besides talking about
that because he did ask me to talk about

some of mine if you put it in the faces
of talk a little bit about a state

of Martin Luther King B.C.B.S.
I represent the King family and so on.

Trust me hope no one I repeated
the publisher enough and

if we have time then I'll talk
a little bit about Rosa Parks versus

outcast has got first day T.N.T.
which is music on phones and for moral

rights cases Dr workman I was sitting in
your audience and I worked on the B.M.G.

Latin case and I have another case with
Google in Brussels involving more lawyers.

So the Authors Guild versus
Google Authors Guild

is like Association of opposite
color class action in the south.

I'm just going to court the southern
district of New York several years

ago according to represent millions of
all those books in the American Library

because I'm weak counsel Google
what I will say it will be

limited in questions and answers will be
limited to what is in the public record.

But I think there will be
a problem with hearing

on the background.

Google on the partnership with a number
of libraries that are now about thirty

university libraries and
others are going to lend books that go to

the course when you scan a book
you're making a copy and one

of the rights of copyright is the right
to use the copyrighted work productively.

These were these books your time
in copyright some out of copyright

basically a book published after night
twenty three is possibly copied because

copyright last very long ago
isn't gonna last very long.

So we go to was very careful to try

to separate out these two categories for
a reason.

Let's show you not some of the publishers
not to be outdone by the authors about

a month after the office girls that fall
they're on sale by a big New York couple.

So we got sued twice for doing.

But the same people who are suing
us also license us books.

Some of the war because
they want to make money and

they do you know and that's all right.

We welcome them like prefer
it to be that way and

fortunately it's not always that way now
showing a few minutes three years which

I'm sure most of you have seen because
you probably use this tool before there's

a full view of the public only it's
a new type of download the say

that's a very old book and just because
something is written about Balzac doesn't

mean it's in the public domain because
there are new updates and mourning which

Professor Dr introductions and then they
claim copyrights in the Kindle version.

So it's back to the drawing board.

So it's got to be really we have a limited
preview and this is one of limited.

Review where the authors of
the publisher supplies the book and

say you can you can put the book up and
we'll tell you how much.

So let's go a little bit what you say and
we do that you can read their

online basically whatever the publisher
says and show you that moment and

then we have the reason for the loss of
what's called the snippet a tiny little

bit based on the pixel count
really put out a spear.

There are still going to hear your

THAT'S FUNNY complain gave a speech
on a similar case at Microsoft about

five years ago as a there's one
thing I can be sure of at Microsoft.

They all know how to line up and

and so they went down and
I said OK yeah I'm helpless.

So about one hundred ideal orders
to work in the audience immediately

ran to the stage and they were helpless
there and then when I T. person comes in.

Of course you know how they are officious
just got away often and she did and

it was a thank you so

we have a lawsuit for copyright
infringement our defense is not that we

get caught but it where you want to have
it with a nice little bit of background.

Very briefly because of time when we
have the state of Martin Luther King.

Here's the upshot of Dr King
of speech on August twenty

eighth one thousand six hundred
all I have a dream C.B.S.

thirty years later took what they call
their footage of the coverage of that

speech and sold it as part of a program
with Mike Wallace about the twentieth

century old Dr Martin Luther King and
the march on Washington.

We told them they can't do that.

They said we can do it.

It's fair use of force the members the.

Yes.
We so then eventually one.

I would like to talk about
that case with Case closed.

There are what I want you to think about
is I have a dream being used by C.B.S.

to use sixty two percent of
the a program that they sell for profit.

One eight hundred number they translate it
in Spanish Portuguese Hebrew in Mandarin

that I know are sold as a copy
of a video cassette and D.V.D.

for ninety nine dollars
Is that a fair use and

we can talk about that on the other case I
want to talk about before we get to Google

but this bears directly into the Sun Trust
first so you know there are two

rulings and three rulings in this case
the first ruling I lost the trial court

argument was that a book called The Wind
Done Gone rotten from the point of view

of a fictional slave on the plantation
Terra in the book and movie going when

that fictional diary was a fair use of
the book and moving on with the when

my client an African-American woman from
Nashville Tennessee who'd gone to Harvard

and graduated with honors before
everybody to figure out which I do not

know I went there is going to
say that I didn't get an Alice.

She came back to Nashville the first thing
she did was to write a best selling so

I'm Patricia you're with a country song
very talented lady and then she turned her

attention to going with the when she
wrote this diary as a refutation of

the rosy picture of the plantation tariff
that was depicted by Margaret Mitchell and

by India really and we were

sued by Sun Trust which is the trustee
that owns the copyright in the book and

movie going when the judge
over my strong Prada station

enjoined publication of the book we found
an emergency appeal which in a lot.

Circuit as in most circuits a First
Amendment claim is second only to a deaf

local fixer so he got a very quick
ruling at one point I was given forty

five minutes to write a brief encounter
with thirty minutes to write his and

I had fifteen minutes reply
we're going obviously meant

it was a fast track case the judge agreed
the panel and the love surgery with

me that you could not join a copyright
infringer book as a matter of hours.

Frank law can enjoin
publication Pentagon Papers but

the New York Times where
American soldiers and

allies in Vietnam are being killed
because of the publication.

Then you can't enjoin a book that maybe

is a parody of Gone With The Wind
second opinion said it was there and

what they did was divined of a concept of
transformative use which plays directly to

what I'm saying a moment to a
transformative use is a very controversial

doctrine that first came about in the case
called Campbell be a couple rows.

Campbell be a couple rows
involving men in LOS or

Campbell who was a member of
a rap group called Two Live Crew.

It's ironic I was speaking I
teach copyright memory and

I was speaking about this very
case as one of the law school.

Of course you know or

like when I informed her that going over
the I'm going to live crew are doing just

that shocks I said anybody heard of Luther
King you know you've heard of rap music.

Yeah well look at Cavil wanted to do
a rap version of Pretty Woman and

if we have time I brought to the CD and

all the while of that during that what the
court drawing on our Harvard Law Review

article by the Bureau of file is now the
second sort of Court of Appeals the court.

Held Supreme Court held that two
Live Crew made what's called

a transformative use of
the song pretty warm and

when they did their song which was
popularly known as ugly one was

a different song same tune if we can
time you'll hear it sounds very close.

Except the lyrics court said that's

a transformative use first time this has
been adopted in American law judge will.

Al's article in The Harvard Law Review
is out there but unlike most

law review articles this one was read and
you and it became part of the law.

So now comes my case and I'm arguing
that if that's transformative use so

is this this case.

Agreed that what my client
on Alice Randall had

done was a transform a should
have gone with a critical parity.

So that's transformative use

up until two thousand to Kelly a review so
it's going down now keep in mind.

Campbell be a couple rows Pretty Woman
song and Suntrust the wind.

I'm going parity both
attacked copyrighted work and

transform They use different words
different images different techniques.

It's a different work here.

Livia really saw was the first time the
transformative use doctrine was adopted

where there was no change there
was a copy what happened was

can't put Kelly was a photographer
many photographers are barely

touches they try to protect
the copyright in the works.

He had a an image several
images on his website or

even saw used spiders and
robots to crawl and

find these images and
post them on the a river so website so

that people could shop with a photograph
in doing that they made server copies and

it was also a display violation display
is one of the rights of copyright.

This is their home page.

They change their name to ditto.

But you can see you can get a picture of
just about anything even Saddam Hussein.

Let's say your teenage kid goes to

Washington on a field trip
with a high school and

has having too much fun to bother to take
a picture and you want or you know get.

You know you want a picture of
the Washington Monument they can go and

buy a picture of lots of
choices of the much money.

They buy it by going to the river stop
page but they can't buy it from Aruba so

what they can do is click on a funnel
which explodes into a larger view and

that doubt that larger view is
too soft to download useful but

what they also learn is they can go to
Kelly's web page and buy a clean copy so

Skelly complaining about
far from losing money.

He's making money.

People are going to his web page
will never know about it but

copyright sometimes
takes a very copy right.

Far right view of the law and

as opposed to the copy left
movement at Stanford and Harvard.

If you are different and so
they sue in at the time.

This is a very controversial case
the Ninth Circuit the notorious night

focused on transformative
use the more transformative

the less important commercialism is Aruba
software's commercial I mean an icon of

a place where they sold them
advertising you know they're not

making tons of money here they're
not Google but they are commercial.

But the Course says that doesn't really
matter which Transformers have underscored

assignments that is dear to my heart is
Google Corp Aruba's use of the images

serves a different function
than Kelly's use improved use.

In improving access to information
from the Internet versus for to stick

expression focus on the fact there is no
transformation of Kelly's photographs.

There is not like you you know
draw on the image of Kelly's and

make fun of his picture that might be
a transform you hear these pictures being

reproduced exactly on the server and
in a softer version when exploded and so

there but this is transformative Yes
because it is put to a different use and

you can already say i'm sure why
this would be helpful to Google for

scanning books which we are good for
doing that to put them to yours.

The other case and
we talk about as Bill Graham Bill Graham.

If you knew you had people my age which
we remember was a promoter of a musical

shows rock N roll and
in those days it put up posters and

you go to a concert hall San Francisco or
in midtown Atlanta and

you'd see who's on the line Janice Joplin
the Grateful Dead one of the fans with

the Grateful Dead during your encounters
Lee wanted to publish a book about

a biography about the Grateful Dead and
in doing that they wanted

to include those posters in the margins
of the book as a way of explaining how

the dad moved from being a backup band for
Joplin or whomever to a lead thing and

you could see that by looking at
the posters where they are depicted on

the poster posters copyright a lawsuit
comes about and the second circuit.

There's a picture of a poster

like a farm male you got a reproduction
of the poster in for example.

On the days.

Yeah yeah.

And so it's a complete copy
not a transformation and

yet the court finds it is it offered for
a different purpose.

The fact that it is a creative work the
second varies factor doesn't matter here.

The amount taken they copied the entire
poster that's one of the Fair Use factors

which you have to do that to use it in
the book you could truncated it was for

the fourth factor the all
important market effect.

What is the effect on the market.

Of course is you can't really Priya
the transformative market that

that comes out of parody lot of my
case on drugs where Suntrust are good.

We would like to do
a sequel from the point

of view of a slice of first
of all that you've got.

Yes a real serious leftist to believe
that Margaret Mitchell Ayres will

do a something a sequel
faithful to their book not like

we have time off a year
Connelly story questions later.

But the court is saying you can't preempt
a transformative market a parody market.

Of course content owners will object
to parody also this is hurting my book

and of course if you can't do it there.

You can't do it here either here.

The fact that Bill Graham could have
sold those posters in fact there were

negotiations between the point and
defended the license the posters they

couldn't agree on price or
said there was a market but

you can't by inserting a certain
copyright to vigorously Korea.

You know the fair use of that or
so to Google quickly

got on time before but I'm sorry what.

This is not an actual picture on Google.

You'll find this something we constructed
to illustrate what I'm going to talk about

and talk about three
categories is a code and

what I would talk about is a train wreck.

So here.
What you're seeing is a public domain

version here you see a little better but
you'll

see here in this public domain work which
you could read in its entirety the U.S.

government knew well before that
the advent of Hurricane Katrina

that the levees in my command parish
would not withstand some category three

most Category four and
no category five hurricane.

So if this is so we want to know
that they can go to this which is

based on the Corps of Engineers study this

is the second category this is like
a category of books where we have.

A license and
we actually have a license as a professor.

I think it through lying through it.

I believe a Pulitzer Prize winning book
called A great deal of the publisher there

was happy for us for Google to
promote that book as we did here.

And so here you get to read a little bit
maybe a third of the book on the first

chapter or whatever they say
I picked this part because it

addresses the work of Michael Brown you
remember him from fame a good job Brownie.

And according to the professor

to mind Hurricane Katrina would
make a direct hit on on our

New Orleans I'm trying to read on line you
responded by letting the day pass he did

send emergency response management teams
to the region normally a reflex action for

me I'm a director he did send hundreds
of buses to the periphery of the Gulf.

He passed out flyers they want to know
about Michael Brown you buy that book or

you can just rely on me now.

Why the lawsuit.

Here's one.

This is the what we call the snippet.

This is from a copyrighted book and
based on a pixel count.

We are reproducing in response to
a search for my puts in a certain sense

Katrina drawing for
whatever words you find this book.

It is a copyright book although
you could read the highlighted

words working Katrina.

It's funny I was making
a speech I'm sorry.

A lot about this and you know there's
still a lot of testosterone flowing

in the out there because of the start
fights ahead for a couple thousand years.

So now that they're momentarily peace they
decided to attack me as an American one of

the guys deficit.

So you could see what happens here.

They're talking about
how the price of gold.

Rose during the training.

He said We always knew
it was about all right.

No answer that but this is a very
useful service let's say Europe

as Dr Wortle is a post-doc and
you're going to do a study

of a woman who was employed in
the life of the impossible.

And because of sexism or

whatever reason there's never been a book
really about her death or her life.

So you want to do that
right there that book and

I've got to work this
one way in my own life.

I'm going to bigger and better.

She's a post-doc here.

But if you want to do that book.

Robin what you would do is reach six
hundred thousand books on the phone we

are four and the French Revolution but
there she is a fast

reader she's not back to us so instead
she would put in the terms you know

Google Book Search not become the thirty
books that address this one in some way.

However a blue collar for of and
then she could buy those books.

If they were fined or go to a library and
for them if they were in a library which

they would be because I would a copy and
that advancer scholarship which

are artifacts in the Google Book Search
cases basically no harm no foul.

We're not hurting the market off.

Now as you probably have read that there's
been a settlement entered into the long

long road of settlement has
been a lot of public speaking.

There's been a lot of objections
Microsoft in particular is objective.

We all know and and and
the Justice Department

that's in question and
we'll see whether it's approved or not.

My point of view it's a good start.

So it's really you'll get to see more
of the books under the settlement.

Then you would've after we won this case
in the Supreme Court going forward because

everyone which would work
in the Supreme Court.

You'd only just read this.

If it's in and
of the sort of work you get to read more

will also be a library staff as
you know that's a good start and

I certainly hope it's approved
showoff I'll stick around and

if there's time for questions or
to play to live through will do that.

Thank you Joe.
That was a wonderful first phase of this

of this event that the way we
have various points of view and

expertise from the campus.

Well what it what I will do is
that invites my panelists to just

say a brief description
of one of what they come

with a take away from our intellectual
property and authorship and

their perspectives and
then we'll open it to the audience and

answer questions one or other of us
never seem to close with a final.

OK I don't mind that
story that I heard and

I just have to start by making sure you
know that I have an access person and

support access and the work that I do is
generally about access but because today.

I need to talk a little bit
about academic authorship.

And what happens with copyright and

what happens in this structure
of academic work in Access.

I have to talk about limitations.

And I think there's an end
point where access could

make academic work flourish that
there are there are possibilities but

it's not the world that we
live in at the moment so

I present the material
with that in mind and

also my focus is on copyright
because this is I think the broadest

area that academics work within at
least in print material although this.

I think this this falls into other
areas in digital run media and

digital development as well so.

So knowing that I'll start.

Authorship in intellectual products
can first benefits to authors or

of those who gain control
of Oxford works by way of

contracts by work for har and
other less common mechanisms

the Constitution's intellectual property
clause supports authors benefits and or

order to forward broad interests and
public goals to advance warning and

innovation and
to make public dialogue possible so

authors work it's the stain by incentives
to create balanced against the need for

public access in this balance
the constitutional goal of advancing

knowledge is supported under
US Copyright Law authors can

distribute copy perform create derivative
works from their intellectual products and

can prevent others from accessing
their work to do the same in many

cases this leads to benefits for authors
that take the form of economic incentive

payment reflects valuation of the work and

this valuation translates
directly in the economic benefit.

Although authors retain legal options
to make their work publicly accessible

until fairly recently few
provided access to their work

when values fail to translate
into direct economic support

but academic authors develop work that
even when it does lead to economic

benefit most often provides a range
of varying benefits derived from and

leading to different forms of valuation
most academic authors of copyrighted

work earn very little in the form
of royalties for books sold and

most produce articles for
which they are not paid economic benefits

to academics come instead in
the forms of salary sustenance and

increases resulting from tenure and
promotion.

And tenure promotion is rewarded on
the basis of academics ability to

publish in journals and with presses
which are respected in their fields so

valuation then is focused on
the representations of the quality of

academics work rather than more directly
in the value of the work itself.

This imprimatur of a respected press or
the imprimatur of a respected

press provides the stamp of quality and
thus the positive valuation for

the academic creator a few
academic authors are able to forgo

publication in established journals in
favor of providing public access and

still be tenured and promoted In
addition most academic presses and

journal publishers refuse or hesitate
to produce to provide public access

without readers in libraries sales or
subscriptions because they rely on

payment to sustain their operations and
in fact anecdotal evidence today

indicates that in the wake of recession
publishers are actually struggling and

they're cutting back on numbers of
publications produced per year and

they're limiting publication page links
and in some cases their shuttering all

together and this situation severely
limits the desirability for

providing open or other forms of
public access to publish works.

The result is that academic authors are
inhibited from choosing access when their

benefits of tenure and promotion are tied
to a traditional form of institutional

valuation of intellectual products but
if institutions valuation of

academic work in for size more strongly
the benefits derived from broad

public recognition authors could be
supported by choices to provide access

to these are and there are a number
of potential benefits including nice

academic creators who develop digital work
such as games music video and software.

Occasions are likely to benefit their
universities more broadly drive

providing wider access to their works
academic authors of either print or

digital work could expand their big
news for recognition expanded visibility

could Hants the Petitio potential to take
leadership roles locally nationally and

internationally academic creators could
broaden the reach of their insights and

new ideas readership could be expanded
beyond narrow fields of academic

subscribers and
authors innovative ideas and

insides could have a greater
impact on society in essence

the important goals of academic
institutions to expand their reputations

on the basis of their faculties
leadership influence and

as self such their institutions
impact could be high and

with a greater valuation of the benefits
that Access provides today the basis for

value of intellectual
products are changing and

the academic producers are developed and
an academic producers are developing

products that could provide
benefit from those changes but

academic creators are unlikely to
make efforts to provide public access

unless University evaluations on
these bases are clear and unless they

directly support tenure and promotion
decisions that provide economic security

because we have a little bit more time
I want to add one more aspect to this

that I didn't mention here is that
a number of academic producers

have an internal desire
to speak about issues and

the speech affects the work
that you create that

are important to academics in
a way that I think transfer

transcends the either the economic
benefit or the benefits of to.

In your book and promotion for a number of
people Open Access provides a means for

speech in a way that that
a closed system doesn't.

And this this potential benefit is huge.

Although not necessarily reflected in
in the economic benefits that are that

are protected by four authors within an
institution within academic institutions.

Thank you Steve Harvey.

So I mean I'm here is a from the academic
point of view I'm a professor of biology

I have published in mainline journals
in biology and chemistry and physics.

I'm the co-author of a book that was
published a little over twenty years ago.

I have edited one or two books and

I'm currently writing a textbook so I have
a little bit of familiarity with books and

articles from the standpoint
of most professors at least in

the in the life sciences and
physical and chemical sciences.

There is a little financial
concern about open access

it doesn't matter the copyrights
that I assign to journals.

If I own those copyrights by and
large I would not make any money on them.

Anyway the the amount of money
that you receive that is paid for

the purchase of a few journal articles
is not substantial in the case of book

publishing that I published a monograph
coauthored a monograph actually in one

nine hundred eighty seven and had a
standard of royalty agreement the book is

still in press and my total royalties over
those twenty some odd years are probably

about five thousand dollars so it's not
a substantial sum of money with a textbook

of course this can be fairly modest
I'm writing a specialized textbook and

I won't make a lot of money off of it
if you happen to write a freshman.

Biology textbook or if you're Paul
Samuelson of course you get pretty rich so

there are considerations there but for

most academic scientists at least there
is very little financial concern.

The principle concerns that we have
because of the rules of copyright and

open access have more
to do with convenience.

So for
example I am not allowed to publish P.D.F.

copies of my own articles on my web page.

I don't own the copyrights for that some
journals will not allow you to actually

publish those I can put a P.D.F. of the
manuscript as it was edited in excepted.

But I don't have the right
to put the P.D.F.

on you say well you just put the link.

So I have links to on my website to
journals that Georgia Tech doesn't

subscribe to and you cannot get these I
had to particularly irritating experience

a couple of years ago when Georgia Tech
stop subscribing to a journal of which I

had published for years I couldn't get
a P.D.F. of my own article and so I called

one of my former graduate students who is
now in the faculty of a medical center

that subscribes to this journal and he
got it for me so I assume that I got it.

Illegally but the convenience
factor is there both because

of the inability to
post our own papers and

also because of the lack of free
access to certain important journals.

Now I have a little bit
of journal experience

I was on the editorial board of
the biophysical journal for six years.

That's the Journal of the biophysical
society of professional societies with

about seven thousand members and shortly
after that I was on the council then

I was president of biophysical society and
this was at a time when scientific

journals society journals were dealing
with the financial consequences of

the rise of the web and that the
journalist Jill published in hard copy.

Although many members.

You have to pay extra for it.

Now you you get it as a member for
free and electronic versions and

the society's Publications Committee with.

The help of advisors and also discussions
with publishers was wrestling

with two issues one had to do with
archival copies for many people just

archiving things electronically
seems very obvious if you're my age.

However I have in my office some old
magnetic tapes that have data on them that

nobody will ever be able to retrieve
Fortunately they're not those are not

terribly important but as matter of
fact as as the physical media change for

archiving electronic materials
there is concern about the archival

ability obviously paper copies
have their own problems.

So there is the archival
side of it in there and

then there's the financial side of it
which is already been mentioned scientific

journals traditionally were supported
by three streams of income.

One would be subscriptions a second
would be authors fees many

journals charge authors a fee to publish
and the third to be advertising.

Those would be the three principal
ones and then professional

society journals are often subsidized
by the professional societies and

with the rise of the Internet and

easy access to things journals
worry about how they will survive.

It turns out to electronically publish
a journal even if you eliminate the paper

copy you still have all of the production
costs of making the first copies.

There is still the set up in the printing
and in most cases if you're going to

control the quality of
the of the final product.

I'd like to say just a little bit
about the three levels of open access

journals that we deal with Evans
has already referred to these

to the website that the journals that
started at Los Alamos in physics.

I don't have never published
in archives A or K.

I.V. but
there are people in my field who have and

I considered at one time publishing
an article there because you can publish

they're not refereed you have to meet
a standard format and you deposited.

There and
then it gets there permanently and

before I published it I called the editor
of The Journal where we hoped eventually

to publish the final article and
I asked him about their policy and

I said Can I take this material than that
i posted online in this online journal and

can I submit it is a manuscript because
when you submit a manuscript or

journal you sign a statement that
has not been published elsewhere and

he said from the standpoint of this
was biophysical journal again he said

the Stanford point of B.J.
says the article was never refereed

they do not regard archive as a full
fledged legitimate Journal and

author of a biophysical Journal article is
not allowed to cite a paper in archive and

so he said from our point of view you can
submit a artifice it can't be identical

you would have to make
some changes to it but

there's no copyright
associated the archive.

I believe there is true of the public
domain but it's not refereed so it had

we were wanting to publish quickly to get
something out there to stake a claim or

I knew our competitors might get in print
ahead of us a second example that has been

very very successful over the P.L.O.'s
journals the Public Library of Science.

They have a series of journals that
are completely freely accessible but

the authors pay for them.

So you will pay somewhere between one and
three thousand

dollars to publish online and that's
how they covered most of their costs.

They started out with some grants I don't
know how they're currently funded there

was considerable concern in the beginning
about when a POS would be financially

viable in the long run and I don't I'm not
aware of the McCann of the financial model

that they're currently working with maybe
somebody else here will know that and

then there's the open access policy for

those of us who have grants from
the federal government and I and N.S.F..

I'm familiar with the and i policy which
requires that every article I publish be

publicly accessible within twelve
months of the time of publication.

So the journals can hold on to it for

twelve months without
releasing that publicly.

And it's the author's responsibility
to deposit a copy with and

I each of the final manuscript and

then there are it's the author's
responsibility to verify that they

did when the twelve month period has
passed that the journal copy the original

copy is finally made available some
journals automatically do that and

others do not other granting agencies
have somewhat stricter terms.

I was going to say so for
going back to buy a physical Journal.

If I want my article
open access immediately.

I have to pay a thousand
dollars to the journal.

If I'm willing to let it wait for
twelve months then excuse me.

There's no charge.

It will become open access after twelve.

If I were funded by Burroughs welcome.

And we have people on campus
who are Burroughs welcome.

According to the kind of things I've read
on the web requires a public access be

available after six months and in the case
of some of these journals they will is

the author's responsibility to communicate
with Burroughs welcome I believe

in the case of Burroughs welcome the
author has to pay the thousand dollars.

Howard Hughes requires that the articles
be available immediately and

there is an arranged between the journals
and the Howard Hughes foundation that in

the Journal of the author I think
asked to contact our Jews but

Howard Hughes pays for that I think
I have those numbers right thank

you finally are involving
a lot of computer perspective

that's a pretty different
perspective that's first

let me either apologize or
take credit for the problem that is for

computing perspective in some sense
we've made this problem happen.

And both in terms of
first just the original

technology that allowed people to
produce documents in such a way and

then of course the notion of how to
archive and to share them and with all

due respect to Joe Hockey left was
actually invented by a software engineer.

Rick.
Stallman from MIT who wrote the original

Emacs word processor and he wanted to be
able to strip the software freely but

in a way that if you got a copy of it.

You knew you got the complete copy and
that's how the whole copyleft thing got

started and then it became an interesting
way of the seventy things the general and

whole notion of open source
happened in software and

then people just said that's
a copyright kind of thing isn't it.

And it sort of has evolved from that and

to understand the tight relationship
between sort of technology and

this notion of open access of was a quote
a friend of mine when how many people here

know what a lot tech is or
tech actually before law tech OK so

it was the first real decent
mathematical scientific sort

of text formatting that you
that a user could do right.

You could really do this yourself.

And I remember and I was in the late
eighty's early ninety's or Mary friend of

mine said you know it used to be that if
a paper was typeset I knew it was good and

that changed dramatically with
your ability to do it yourself and

that actually if you will is part
of the the beginning of the end of

copyrighted scholarship as we know it and

by the way I really do believe it's the
end of copyrighted scholarship as we know

it especially in the notion of scientific
investigation large manuscript production

large works that have sort of mass
consumption is something different but for

here all sort of restricted to things
that are of interest to a community and

that community typically is interested in
the content based upon how it dances their

knowledge in a particular way but
doesn't sort of have a large mass appeal.

So the next is that there's
no question that open

access is going to happen it's
here it's not going away.

If the music business can't stop it and

there's bazillions of dollars in it
certainly and they haven't stopped that in

case anybody thinks they have it's
not going to go away and scholarship.

We also have to make a big
distinction between Access use for

profit and access use for consumption.

All right in the music world there's
all sorts of access world for

profit so when M.T.V. shows.

Music video they make a lot of money on it
when every teenager I know exchanges music

videos in Europe and by the way they use
i Tunes in Europe and don't pay for it.

Whereas kids in the United States
do pay for it and

I think the only difference is
the availability of gift cards.

We had a German student live with us for
years.

She'd never seen an i Tunes gift card.

OK so the whole idea that you pay for
music to her was bizarre.

OK.

And by the way the reason i Tunes
succeeded is not because they got

the copyright stuff correct all that can
stuff it was just so easy to use and

was such a natural match to the way people
want to use it that paying a buck for

the music scene seemed OK.

And even they you know those you know
that used to be that you could only

play it on your i Pod for ninety nine
cents but now for a dollar twenty nine.

You can pay it on anybody's i Pod and you
know they did that because they realize

people were just burning it to a virtual
CD that ripping it making a copy and

that's playable everywhere
as you all know that right.

OK And it reminds me you know this
is expression out there a lawyer.

Couldn't find who said it first that
culture trumps strategy every time and

it all and it almost always trumps law and
it always trumps on enforceable law.

So you know if you want to pass a law in
Georgia against online betting Go ahead.

OK how is that going to vent me
from betting in the West Indies.

You know it's just not there so
so open access is coming and

it's in a variety of ways.

You may have seen a spring or

just announced this past June
something called Spring or open.

It's the first ten Journal of
the spring or that's open Access and

it does all these things you would think
you know authors retain copyright or

the Creative Commons freely
available the submission.

You know.

Basically they're going to do
everything that everybody was doing but

they're going to put it in the spring or

place to try to maintain a certain
amount of decorum actually and

it's a real question of what the economic
model behind that is going to be.

And so you know some things may be
changing too slowly for your tastes.

You know some people you
know a lot of things I

read out there seem to be
things like you know things.

Dollars can do to fight those big bad
publishing companies are the big bad world

publishing companies.

I'm not really sure you
need to fight them.

Most of them are on life support or going
to be on life support and they know this.

So instead you might actually think
about is there any vestige will use for

them and how do we want to
engage with them and then for

just will mention you mention
about the and I H. and S.

Actually I think one could argue that
funding this scholarship that comes out of

funding that came from the government in
some sense of how come the taxpayers don't

have access to the stuff for free
anyway they paid for it to begin with.

And that's sort of coming along.

I want to give a slightly different
perspective here I'm a school chair so

a school chair through a review promotion
ten years is part of what we do.

And I think frankly this is
a completely artificial constraint.

When people say to me open access
is going to kill our beauty.

I don't believe it at all.

R.B.T. criteria adapt and
if they sometimes slowly and

always with contempt but they adapt and
I'll give you an example.

So there is a faculty member in my school.

You guys know what an age indexes.

OK age index so if you've written H.

articles that are cited by each
people that's your age index OK so

in computing having an H. index over forty
is considered to be a pretty good deal.

OK So there's you know several factory in
my school have Agent X. is over forty.

There's one happens I want to forty five
because he was a pretty decent researcher

before he became an administrator and
he only has fourteen Journal publications.

OK And that's because all
the action is at the conferences.

All right so the computer vision pattern
recognition conference has a we get

fourteen hundred submissions every year it
has a twenty five percent acceptance rate.

OK that's where the evaluation of quality

comes from OK these are tightly peer
reviewed but easily disseminated.

I do the typesetting of
the papers that appear there.

OK so do the other fourteen hundred
people that submitted those papers.

OK And then there.

Posted online and
you know what the I Tripoli posts them and

it isn't I Tripoli but I'll tell you
there's another conference a national

conference of computer vision which for
four years.

We just did on our own out of in
Rio through some of the faculty

because the guy Tripoli wanted all this
money lots of he said you know what

we don't need you.

We just pay a printing press.

We know how to make things better.

Eventually I triple e decided that they
would they would they would participate.

Now I know it's not that way.

Currently in various scientific other
sciences but for no deep reason.

OK you can have your own
community peer reviewed

systems that are independent of
the notion of copyright so I have here.

The question is not peer
review versus open access.

It's really really really not you
can have peer reviewed open systems.

Now you can't have a journal
that you can just submit to and

publish Well that's going to you're
going to get the quality of that exam

I mean that's like a blog
actually the people are right.

That's right.
So so

reviews check now there's the electronic
journal of artificial intelligence is all

these things they're all the ONLY
that are only online submission.

But they're reviewed by exactly the same
process that we always review things.

OK.

So I really think
the question is not R.P.T.

the question is not quality control I
think the question is just making sure

that we in Akademi let our models drift
as as the ability to do things for

the last thing I want to mention just
because it just came out the association

of research libraries I guess just
released a report and involved.

This is term an interesting approach they
say that they pull together a group of

people to come up with four different
scenarios of what research would

look like in twenty thirty and
the idea was that a research library

might want to think about how
will you play in that world.

If this is what research looks like so the
four different scenarios loosely One is

that the sort of research
entrepreneurs so.

The institutions don't matter.

You just have sort of individual
researchers doing their thing.

These are the matter.

I think that one ignores the fact
that you need good graduates that

was to do research or
talk too much about that one.

Then there is a one that
says that reuse and

recycle basically there's no funding for
research and

life is bleak and then the but then
they say something that is just wrong.

They said the crowd allowed
pro-choice is widespread producing

information that is ubiquitous.

But of low value and

again this confounds the idea that just
because something is easily accessible

doesn't mean there were stringent
quality control in how it got produce.

So look in my field and in other fields.

There are really high quality conferences
and there are shall we say not so

iconic conferences OK the access
to both of them is the same.

It's simply the community
standards that have been adopted.

There's no other discipline charge but

the one that I really like they talked
about global followers global followers

was in some sense the research is not
dramatically research environment not

dramatically different than what we have
now except that it's much more global and

different domains are driven by
different parts of the world.

OK so you guys know the book
Snow Crash by Neil Stevenson OK so

I guess we own the pizza domain or
whatever order and

if you don't get that joke you
ought to go read the book anyway.

But you can imagine that cancer
might be something that's pushed by

the United States robotics might be
something that's pushed by Korea

pollution control might be
something that's pushed by China.

OK you can imagine things and

one of the interesting implications of
that is that the cultural norms that come

from these different places will be
operating within these communities.

So now I want you to think about
copyright law for scholarship and

now think about China.

OK we can't protect anything in China
that actually has lots and lots of value.

How are you going to get Chinese who
might be dominant player in that space.

I'm just picking you know and
they have a complete.

Clearly different view of what
scholarship copyright should be so.

So the the idea that we could even
pass a law in the United States.

That's vend going to become
the model that operates.

I think that will require a much
you know wider perspective.

So you know to me it's even more
complicated than sales tax.

Right.
I mean I don't know

who writes sales tax laws these days but

that's got to get harder and harder by
when you buy something from somewhere but

you click from over here and then it
gets mailed over there but by the thing.

The thing you're buying is electronic We
pay sales tax on music when you download

it in the not yet you know sort of yeah.

So I mean the question is you know
what jurisdiction gets the sales tax.

If you get it when you download
something out of the cloud and

now imagine it's a really cool article
written by computer vision nerd.

You know which is a deep interest
to exactly eighteen people.

OK So you know it's for
for an age of forty six.

It'll have to be a deep
interest of forty six.

Anyway so it so
to it to wrap up I mean this stuff is

just happening in this stuff is just
coming and the technology within you.

Evolve.

I think from universities perspective our
trick will be how to maintain quality

in the face of the change of the mechanism
of publication dissemination.

And those two are not lock step right.

I mean we can create quality
image in the enforcement

mechanism of quality assurance
mechanisms under these new models.

Frankly if you want to you want to provide

better rebuttal just a couple
of time Thailand question.

I'm compelled a couple of times.

One is the term copyleft
it drives me crazy.

I love the concept behind it.

I agree with what goes on with popular but
there's nothing particularly like

leftists about access access
is built in to copyright law.

It's built into the Constitution
without access.

We don't have the mocker say we can't run
and the intellectual property clause.

Ensures that Access is a part of it.

So there is nothing particularly
outrageous about access.

It's not in the air you have a letter
out you look at your terminal copy

love it meant to be a joke right.

You know that is not implying
any Marxist with the right.

It either but

I want people to understand that it
says that even though the term is used.

It's there so that there's no in it.

Bishan without that term.

There's nothing you have you don't have
to do anything radical to make use of

rights of access in copyright or in or

in other aspects even even trademark
in other other aspects of the law.

I mean there are accessible in some
light and the the other the other

issue is I think context drives
what happens to academic work.

Ideally you have a situation
where your chairs are wise

enough to realise that that the mechanism
doesn't matter when it comes to quality

I can say though in the past
in our situation we.

We had a theme like not not our current
thing who's been awesome but for

our earlier he told a number of
individuals that their publications

in electronics in electronic
journals were not useful that they.

Regardless of the work regardless of the
peer review process and regardless that

the journals themselves were considered
some of the best journals in the field.

They were there was no support for
publications electronic journals.

So the great thing to do.

Of course is not to try to change
anything about how we publish what

we're publishing but
to get them to understand the right.

Yeah right.

That's yeah.

So something must get older.

It'll be you have to see
the changes of concepts and

ideas I think is important so
sorry I was just OK I had to head to

Jonathan's I understand that shows you
just give us a couple of quick things.

Article for.

The Section eight cause eight of the
Constitution authorizes Congress to grant

to authors and inventors for
limited times the exclusive rights

to their works of science and useful
works works of science at that time so

they keep sentry notion
braced park literature music

where the Supreme Court has looked
at the balance between the right

of access the guy is talking about and
the right of the author to be lorded

there is a delicate balance because you
do want to incentivize creation of work.

It's a very capitalist notion but

where the two conflict in the north where
there's a conflict between public benefit

and reward to the office the Supreme Court
has always said if it's a toss up

public benefit prevails where you're
there you are I think Aaron said

something about how do you have a sales
tax in United States China or something

along the line there is something
called the Burne international treaty

which virtually every country in the world
is now a member of the United States was

I think the last certainly the last
important country joined we only joined

back in March one thousand nine
that treaty makes it possible that

the reason I could talk about copyrights
very able or in Moscow or other places

where I've spoken is not because I know
their law intimately because their law is

basically the same as ours very use
differs much less fair use in Europe.

We'll talk about if we get back to
Google but other than that the laws

are about the same this is because
copyright is international even more so

than tackler trademark law and
certainly more so and so

it is possible to have
unfortunately John not there yet.

It's not there and

in Bosnia in fact you can find
karaka copies right here in Atlanta.

But there is progress being made and

it is possible of course part
of why it's the same is.

Back pedal and we harmonize
with the twenty year extension.

So it's not on the term of copyright so
before good the extension was passed.

We had her life for the out there.

Plus fifty years now we
have life of the out there.

Plus seventy years.

It's a means to harmonize and
get in step with international bodies for

trade purposes not as Sara Lee
to support say in fiction

in fictions of the Constitution or
the of the framers of the Constitution

where that was the reason for
that it actually was your your guess.

Was it was one of the arguments I
always blame the Walt Disney Company

for the yeah.

The young lady.

Now that is about to go
in the public domain.

Sonny Bono is widow with
a congressperson from there were killed.

So therefore she's trying to extend
copyright she which protect content owners

the story has it you know I said Article
one section because it talks about for

limited times.

So Ms Bono was being asked by
the studios in Hollywood to extend

copyright She said For you want and
they said Well how about longer and

she said I've got an idea who
I don't know if it's true.

I just heard a part of
what she said was forever.

Minus one day as a limited
term that's what they want and

there's limited there so I was like yeah.

Disney said just give us twenty years.

So I think I see it more as
a way of extending protection

to valuable intellectual property then
it was the harmonization effort but

it is true to Europeans and
to their spouses and I'm

finding lots of interesting
information I didn't know before but

in the spirit of open access I'd
like to open the discussion to

the audience of those
many of us with proper.

There's about

event.
It depends on the way you

use the other article.

If you quote big chunks of the brain and
then you could run into a cop.

Even if you say even if you don't
plagiarize In other words you

give accreditation.

If you quote too much of it verbatim
that could be copyright infringement.

If you use the ideas.

That's perfectly all right.

Copyright doesn't protect an idea that
only protects the expression of the that's

a easy thing to say it's a very hard line
drawing some but what it basically means

is the way you say if you say it
differently but express the same idea.

That's fine it's art I'll send you
a bill with your name like yeah

that's probably just about I think Steve
Harvey has maybe another way or yes so

so it is certainly true that the copyright
related your article on the intellectual

property are completely separate Now I'm
old enough to remember the times when

there were great debates about who should
only intellectual property that was

funded by the federal government and
the difficulty was that if I had an idea.

It was patentable the federal government
had no interest in pushing that forward so

I think it was about one thousand
a year or so that Bob Dole and

it was purchased by passed it by Dole Act
which gave intellectual property

rights to the to the author
of those rights.

Now as an employee of Georgia Tech
those rights actually are vested with

Georgia Tech and they're all
universities have standard agreements

about how those can be developed and what
your financial reward from those would be

I have one patent which I got when I was
at University of Alabama Birmingham for

which I received some sum of money.

It was not a large sum.

It didn't produce a lot but

they are completely separate
to answer your question.

Looks like hero and I don't want to just
this Sara Lee legal thing I do want to

say that has a particularly
interesting relationship in academia.

One of things you may or may not know is
that faculty are not only permitted but

they're encouraged to consult.

So you're permitted as a back
member to consult the day a week.

Typically when you consult with a company
they have to sign some sort of every And

typically in those agreements
there's something about all your and

this is worth because you get squirrely
inventions ideas several you know whatever

are going to be property of the of
the company you're doing the consulting or

I've instructed my faculty and
I know legal with as well.

Etc Those are ones that they have
to look at very very carefully.

You know as a as an academic who in some
sense one of the main elements of your

position is the creation of ideas.

The question the ownership of
those ideas is fundamental.

I will tell you that the companies
do not pay attention to the law

in the dream is that they have written
because I know a little bit about

the launcher folks who know more and
I know some of them are just ridiculous as

you say you can't own what I wake up
at night thinking in exactly express.

Never mind the fact that I'm
only consulting for you.

Four hours a week and my day job
is you know back here to tech So

that is an issue.

I will tell you following this issue of
copyright versus intellectual property.

One of things we've been trying
to do is to get people to file

the school intellectual property
disclosures even if you don't have.

Eventually pursue it all the way to
a patent because it has a way of sort of

tying a ribbon around the stuff that
is the intellectual property and

articulated in a particular way and
then that sort of serves to sort of

distinguish it from just a very
broad class of ideas that you know

that you can go to argument about later
and going back to the thing over here.

This is completely in the mostly
independent of any notion of copy

of the expression.

The idea notion sits on
their intellectual property.

Yeah yeah I mean couple of couple of
issues with this is first of all work for

hire is a legal construction and
then you've got to determine that based on

the thirteen elements of what makes up
an employer agency partnership law and

then you've got to look to
see whether this is a ploy.

If that for the employees the find as
an employee is working within the scope of

his or her duties.

That's one thing you can't
actually create a work for

hire other than that legal structure but
what you can do is contract

away the rights that you might have
beyond what work for hard limits.

If work for her is slipping.

So that's less want to inspect you
have to look at the one that's really

one is the work for
her that you can't do anything about and

those are those thirteen elements
that don't go into that but

then the other is a well it's elements.

Let's go and then the other is
what you can do something about.

And if you contract that away
in order to get that benefit or

whatever their position is then that's
your negotiate a deal negotiation

that will do this to other aspect is
when they're at the core of what I found

interesting lately and
haven't explored fully is this idea of how

the intellectual products that you create
are representative of that you are and

what this means to you as a person
beyond what it means as a product.

Create to benefit from economically and
course only we all know plagiarism is one

one way to help determine what happens
to what Representative is your work.

Joe you could correct me
on this isn't there one.

I think it's one zero eight.

It's like when I wait a year for

something that indicates this
representational aspect.

You're right to give it somebody else's
use of your product because it is

it's your right to representation aspect
of your work is that I was afraid so.

May I ask what want to wait want to wait.

I haven't got it all right.

It's a library exemption.

OK I want to learn want to wait.

When I was offered a trip to New Orleans
via the American Library Association

developed talk about it.

So I learned it and forgot it that
very night on Bourbon Street.

I mean I'm very very tedious technical and
so I don't know I did have a comment

though that I wanted to put on Robin to
your point one reason to and this is being

told some of that it with the content
requires that one reason they have these

expensive notions of ownership is not only
because they want to own the content but

also because they don't want to be sued
by you by you later for stealing their

intellectual property we just want to case
which refutes they did larf Or you could

have got me on representing Sony Pictures
and Adam Sandler movie Co You don't mess

with Zohan invasive young diffusive
you know that Santa plays the part of

an Israeli a member of the side who leaves
to become a hairdresser in New York and

you know he becomes you know successful in
that bit of a womanizer were sued by a guy

who claims he sent this screenplay and
idea to Sonny and

his character is a gay guy who was
kicked out of the Navy SEAL program.

Don't Ask Don't Tell and
became a hairdresser and

both of them point to hairdresser
like a I mean you know a hair dryer

like a like a crystal and there are other
and so the claim was that we had.

Access to this Navy SEAL guy work and

he's not a real Navy serial He's just
that's his character and he said.

Sonny has and in Columbia and
all the big studios have

a very strong policy they don't accept
unsolicited manuscripts for that reason.

So when they hire someone as a consultant
visit double problem because there is

the risk that that person would then
say you had access to my ideas and

you stole them.

So it is both to avoid litigation.

I think it's an interesting question as
to the enforceability of those agreements

copyright purports to define the scope
of intellectual property and

writings patent and
inventions and where things go

beyond that protection of ideas you're
talking about state law protection and

maybe preemption or maybe national policy
arguments you can made that would keep

some of that in the public domain but
it is common for these contracts to be

extremely expensive and I'm glad your your
department challenges that when you can.

Yeah I mean it.

You know that they want your stuff
signed over you know you get your

car your children you know and
everything but

what they really want are the brains
of places like Georgia Tech.

So they're willing to
back off a little bit.

Well to get your brains.

Hey I mean the real problem if you're
from Georgia Tech is to make sure that

I mean it's fine for the back of the
handbook to say you know you go out and

consult but creating some sort of Chinese
wall between the intellectual property is

you know is fundamentally My advice to the
fact the number you know when I say I'm

not a lawyer I just play one on
school is that you know they write in

very explicitly that it's only directly
with respect to the task though in which

they're working on the company you know
with the company and for those of you

who really want to get squirrely down
copyright versus intellectual property.

Go talk about computer software.

OK Where the ability to separate out the
algorithm from the idea from the Express.

One of the idea that
is you use the word X.

to represent a variable not
what you know I mean it.

It's less merger.

I mean it's unbelievable.

And so we in the in the computing
world we have to work sort of

extra hard to maintain that
separation which is why people always

end up when ever when ever there's a doubt
they will always rewrite the code.

They'll even do something on the lines
of one person will read the code

they write up a spec of what's in it
that spec is handed to someone and

then that person writes new code because
you want to avoid the copyright infringer

not the intellectual property because
if there's a path you will vote but

you have avoided any notion that
this person copied the code.

So for us.

It gets even more sort of complicated.

To

the class know what Poston.

Do you do

you say anything your students about their
restrictions on using your material.

Well that's

pretty good.

You know this we brought this up briefly
in the general faculty meeting last week

and I noted that the Weinstein case which
was not the right case we have seen by

Wiser is the case that tried to think of
which I brought your coffee today but

that in the case
the professor has a right.

His nose to nose and
of course the tricky question.

This is this is in your
realm is where you separate

the notes in the forests of the notes and
whether you know how much control.

You have over performance
versus the notes themselves and

if you're performing the notes.

You really retain your coffee right now.

And that other that other issue here
which I guess is one zero eight.

It's it's another part I never can
remember which part of the copyright law

that says that it's this section
that treats representational

your right to maintain
how your work references.

You talk about when I want to say
I say OK I say I had the six of

the eight The WHO has the moral like yeah
yeah it's the fifth essentially what's

moral right even though we don't
really follow the life here.

Like what we do or
the other will never get why not.

It's like yeah so
I think I think you're Sir you're.

Your problem.

I think it's actually very

paranoid myself I actually hand out
when I teach coverage in law school and

after each lecture I give them my
class notes which are very expensive.

The tradeoff is they have to close their
laptops during class and listen and

then they can get the notes later and
have nothing on my God they're going to

do what they're doing with you and
say something but

I think I own the copyright in my later
years I don't know what the border regions

policy are there now it used to be that
they were going to own the universities

are going on right to that level of that's
where the real money is being care of

some classics professor publish
a book because they see money there.

I think that is tightened up.

There's an actual case
involving college professors.

It's about thirty years old and
it can be modified by contract but

in that case the court said that
the university of sued a professor for

using his notes when he moved
to another university and

the court said forget about it.

They said university professors
are a peripatetic lot.

The first time I ran they were not here
and they're probably more peripatetic

today they were then and look at and
they said if you if you take away your

professors not if you take away his or
her ability to like a letter.

It's like a restricted cover and
the law frowns on that because we want to

encourage people to make a living so
university professors absent a contract

on their copyrighted works
their notes their books.

Now many universities your
driving glue to have changed

that it really became almost do with
GERD because of the value of patent

copyrighted works not so
much but maybe so what I would

probably do if this really is a concern
is tell your students in writing talent.

Maybe hand it to them that you know you're
delighted for them to use your notes and

learn from them and
to comment on what they say you cannot

permit authorisation not only because your
own the copyright which you probably want

to say in a nice way because
you can be very confident.

Not only because I forgot
to write the book.

As a matter of distortion a possible
confusion would arise and

it's a matter of you know when you get
advance knowledge to the nice Well that's

what I did I think I'm going to do that
next week next semester together if that

Professor exception to work for
hires you know where I ran it so

fair that they could they
take their own notions.

They're not

really your

mind so
can I can I make a circle with them one.

I'm not sure

that I would make a nick
of an observation or

suggestion I was on a faculty
Medical Center before I came here and

I lectured medical and dental students
as part of a large course of hundred and

some odd students every year and the
students got together every year and paid

one of them to be a scribe for the course
and what we did as a faculty was require

that we knew who that scribe was and that
we got copies of the notes that was all.

And what we did was we had a disclaimer.

So for example here every year when
I start my course I spend ten minutes

lecturing the students about plagiarism.

I'm what I will do if they
keep my stand of mine legs and

tell them I'll throw them out like I say
things will have no legal rights but

I want them understand what I want and
understand it is the camera when you say

I've spoken up I have been warned them
that I will not tolerate it and you know

and Georgia Tech is really good procedures
in place so we issued then at the start of

every year we issued a disclaimer in
the clerk or syllabus saying we know

that the students are transcribing the
course we will put the name of the student

who was the scribe chosen by the students
we didn't have authority to approve it.

Chosen by students and
we simply made a disclaimer there that

we warned the students using those
not not might not be accurate.

The flipside is you know I won't go so

far as the the Facebook folks who
say you know privacy is dead.

Get over it and I will go as far as to
say the ability to limit individuals

from producing information that is
consumed by the entire world is gone.

There's no I mean you can't you can try
to work around you can try to do but

fundamentally they can publish
whatever they want to publish.

So you can post gently that

says look I have reason to believe that
you need to come to class in order to pass

this class and they'll be material here
that you can't get just from the notes.

But at the end of the day the students
are going to vote with their feet and

that will be you know up to you to
make it so that it's really true.

You know if you're a regular you
know if you if you're a bricks and

mortar university with class a recovery
in our one research university and

and I'll say besides being our one
let's say are one scholarship.

OK because not all scholarship follow one.

You know one thing that we're going
to have to do is figure out what is

it that we produce for
students that are not available when you.

Subscribe to the University of Phoenix or
other online universities and

by the way case anybody is wondering and
I don't know about Phoenix in particular

you can get great educations from
a lot of these places I do not believe

that it's an inferior education
along certain dimensions and

it's very dangerous for
us to just believe that.

Well we're just better.

What we have to do is we have
to provide value added and

one end to bring this back around to open
access presume for a moment open access.

OK for MIT that other assume that
getting at what sort of archived

about Georgia Tech is
available to the planet.

Why would anyone want to
come to Georgia Tech.

Well that's up to all of us to create
some reason for them to actually be here.

And if you do that then students will
come to class even though the notes

are available open access and you know
those kinds of things it's painful.

I will tell you it is definitely painful.

We're in a transition and

any of you know that you know just look
exponential growth is never pleasant.

I don't care what it's of OK for
me it's body fat whatever

but because because basically
what it means is that your

models don't come along nearly quickly and
that then that and that then that's

where we are at now it's part of why we
have this conversation right now right.

The expense of growth of access and
our models and so

I'm going to push back on the you
know if you've got R.P.T.

people that aren't getting their
heads around where the real action in

the field is you know the time for
a bunch of things can happen.

One is the really great people
will go to the places that

understand where the really
great work happens.

And so you're you have least one day
in the audience his job to help hold

onto these great people and that's
going to do things like helping drag

the university kicking and
screaming in with a lot of screen.

And by access model course that answers.

The simple answer is put your nose
as you want to stand on line and

nobody else is going to
bother trying to put notes

that are inaccurate because you're going
to be the most accurate that it's failed.

That was there was a lot of questions very

little.

While he was

there right there will where
another star couple others

but your

what.

And the law like

this probably not a question for
me it should be a question for

your fellow right.

So far right that there's no that's right.

But even among the old science of customs.

There are quite a bit on terms of them and
between them but

nothing really would be greeted
with the societies are there and

that means that I come back
to those all sides there and

by the way things are going to get so
now we're going to really nerdy OK So

as you may have heard a few guests or
a couple months ago researcher at H.P.

reported to have proven that Pete is not
equal and for those of you don't know what

that is it's an old computer science thing
that's has some relevance must some might

argue but one hundred twelve
page proof is kind of thing

that normally would go through deep peer
review in center whatever Dick Lipton who

is on the faculty here has a blog and

he's one of the experts in this and you
got to understand this was remarkable for

a people's N.P. conversation he had
one hundred thousand hits on his blog.

Now this is old school now

they say hits were by probably
the same few hundred people.

OK because this is the it's
not a very large field.

What happened was in a period
he can trace you can trace back

in a period of about four weeks of
very intense scholarly conversation

was had about the probable
flaws in the proof whatsoever.

And if you now look at it it is
the the good the smart money is

right now the proof doesn't.

LOL But this is pretty old school work

old school feel using the new school
National Academy members embracing this.

I think actually one way of thinking
about this is it may only take a few

Nobel level or
Clearly top of the game folks to embrace

this view of the world and you might
find that shift happens very quickly.

Now let me tell you a dirty little
secret journals Pirtle allow

mediocre science to persist for
a very long time three.

Right.
Yes rather.

OK And
well because the review process while.

Well established is very gracious.

Conferences tend to be relatively ruthless
and one might even argue that for

some of these sciences to get
to the level they need that.

Now we still have journals
within computing etc

because it's where you publish
the whole story right.

You've got page limitations on
the conference bits but I might just take

a couple of leading visionaries who
are well established to embrace that for

a title and let it come out of that so
many feel more than that matter but

quite quite recently they
looked at a number of

their own proof and everything
discussions that have gone on and

was essentially blogs that are put
on there and yet Arabs right out

of the most notable ones happen to be one
of them created by your own Terry talent.

You know a Timothy gallops I'm going
on holiday with a great fan but

you know there have been brought together
people from around the world and.

These are these are there are others
important theorems that are being proved

and they're not going to
I predicted in his years

we wouldn't even be having this
conversation because the world is changing

to such an extent that what we value and
how we value information

how we value what we do with it is all
a matter of how we interact with it.

It's not all the rest of the stamp
that says yes this is good.

This is man.

It's it's a public interaction that
helps to determine the value of what we

print is so so

in the biomedical sciences it's a really
interesting question because when I was

a young man there were lots of conference
proceedings they no longer exist.

Nobody publishes conference
proceedings if they do

they're very boring generally not all.

And you go to meetings because if
you don't you're in your behind and

I think that most of the things that
we publish are archival actually and

they're the ones of course that go
on the CD but I agree absolutely

about the peer review process we've all
had that experience you have one or

two reviewers of the term and the fate
of the paper rather than a community and

I have no idea what the future
will be in biomedical science but

if there are the leaders of
the field we know what's going on.

Could you go to meetings and
you know what's going on talks and

notes in your thing and come back and tell
your group of keeping up the literature

swords a lot of meetings that let me get
back to the archives in this regard.

I think you said that one of
your I think Steve said that

you could give references to bring that
to the archive physical general and

biophysical Journal Dr not been allowed
in the last probably three years old but

actually in mathematics and
physics we do this now and

in fact I never wait for a journal book or
read something and you know fight.

I go to the archive and I know it's
publishing you know I'm going to

read that article there of
you is not perfect so you go.

I have some level of skepticism fears and
those red letters and

so on came Lee site to the our and
also our five.

So something like that with a video there
so saw something that's just wrong.

It is out there in the print journal.

You may never know it's been read but
it looks like somebody way that

you

probably shouldn't sign those away in fact
that the library has had links to some

suggested documents that you can point out
that to those annoying copyright forms for

when we wind up out there that
I mentioned some of this but

you know the fact is I have no X.
particular piece here but

since I've been married to a boy or for a
long time I've I knew that you can fix it.

Contract the property market up.

That's just plain truth happens that you
know most academics are aware of that.

So just say that five do terrible things
that the publishers are asking for

they have to market up what the publisher
needs and really all they need and

most of these my wife's a college
professor also in what they need

is a non-exclusive right
to publish perpetually

around the world in both print and
Internet media but the non-exclusive and

usually they want to be the first
publisher and you can grant that and

then retain the rest of copyrights
copyrights are a bundle of royalties.

So for example you can retain
the all important film right

there right here but
not by rights seriously.

Yeah but seriously those rights of the do
by retaining the copyright is a boat and

when you get another exclusive right
you're not granting really a copyright

you're bringing up a license to use
something then that and they believe you

to put it on your web page and receive
comments and most publishers will do that.

I publish occasionally myself and

I always give a non-exclusive right
first publication retain everything

you know.

Well depends on the contract but
ordinarily you have to put injury singly

For instance if you're
in the sciences even.

You may have your your funding agency
never ever open access to the mandate and

then and then the journals in the position
of being on the weak side of those

patients they have to read it after six
months or hear something like that that

gumbo actually very nice allows you.

That article if it's valid for you.

It's not always that easy that you're out.

So another dirty little
secret that has shifted.

I would say in the last decade

is that publishers need you
more than you need them.

Hey that wasn't always true and
that is becoming more and more true.

And so the leverage that you now have with
respect to negotiating those contracts is

much greater marital you before
they're on life support.

Will the final blow to them would be
people saying I'm not sending you my stuff

anymore so they were they really
are incented to try to have you

feel that they that there is a your
desired output of publication and

you can almost imagine
auctioning off your manuscript.

I mean we always thought of it the other
way around like God I hope I get accepted.

Imagine you decide the other way around.

I know this works great.

So all right.

Start the bidding at two hundred dollars
now you know it's not going to quite go

that way but it is the case that you can
request rights that you think appropriate.

So so so let me answer that a little bit
because I realize you said something that

I forgot to turn to account for

in the old days which is like
last week the archive mattered.

OK where the archive was and
what the archive was because you

had a place you could go and
access today it's the index that matters.

So in some sense it's absolutely fine
suppose your text libraries wanted to be

the archival place that I put all
my things that's perfectly fine.

I don't need them to
be at the I triple eat

because all you're going to do is you're
going to go to Google or son of Google or

whatever the next thing is and
you're going to look for

this stuff and it will pop up to three
different places you can find it.

One of which will be Georgia Tech one of
which will beaching all university and

you know one of which will
be my personal website and

where you get it from won't matter.

So I think that that's actually
the role of the in some sense.

The only role of the archive
is to not get burned down.

I mean that seriously write it
has to exist in some form or

perpetuity such that the indexes
link doesn't go stale and

if that happens you're done there.

Yes I was going Valleyview with this one
quick story about archives and there's

still a place for them when I finish
the speech I'm very able we went for

a walk to a restaurant and there was this
beautiful building off to one side and so

I asked my tour person who's got
carrying me along what that was and

she said That's our library and
we had in this library

manuscripts dating back to the twelfth
century of various religious groups and

other learned texts and

she said you know there's an interesting
story Joe because during the siege.

One night a shell from
the Serbs hit the library and

caught the library on fire and
the library began to burn and

she's It was the most remarkable
thing at a time when Christians and

Muslims were at each other's throats they
stood side by side shoulder to shoulder in

a bucket brigade and put out the fire
to save the books and manuscripts.

But the story doesn't end there
another year and a half went by and

during of extremely cold winter in
Sarajevo with the surge continuing

and the Serbs had cut
the trees around the city.

So there was no fire and so with great
reluctance and some cases tears in their

eyes the citizens who were still alive
took the books out of the library and

burned them for firewood so
if we can have it.

Google can get there to these places
before that happens we'll at least have

an electronic files of a still
place when it is already.

Yeah yeah.