Thank you Indra.

There were really as being
said OK the confluence of this

as well as contradictions between what
our first just because I had to like

maybe these ideas are not
completely separate

from you know my way things like Go
with God research was upbeat and

we got a horse on me and I thought
there was this big gulf between us.

I'm not so sure of that anymore.

The time for this guy no less looks very

wise lives Delhi area is a source text
man study in the fields of chemistry

psychology and he's also a published
author especially of literature and

nonfiction essays on dozens of topics
cooking politics religion sociology.

I think it's all the new media
you know and some because I'm

curious the author of the novel swept
numerous short stories anthologized to die

monster die press a Baltimore enterprise
of yours he wrote by with the column for

two headed cat dot com which is
unfortunately no longer a production

online but if that's all you
are copying on line if you can dot com

for more than twenty years he's going
to professional information technology

industry working with the university
system of Georgia Cabot industry

Cabot corporation Coca-Cola you know
other multinational corporations and

lately he has branched into the world
of business startups incubators and

capital investments here and
is in a vice or

to a small investment bank
Alpharetta Georgia and

let's listen first people I spoke with
when the idea started bubbling up and

again in this book and this thing about
the zombies that are you have I read

something fictional published and it was
obvious that lies beyond any brands.

You know that there's more news on
days than than you might think.

So I think you know I know you know.

There's such a thing as there is a wasp
that will attack other insects and

you use them for its own curse for
procreation like yeah.

Tara dam a liar.

I guess a big guess somebody
told me all about that and

I said God you know people are talking
about times I mean banks these days.

Yeah well because of the financial
meltdown we're seeing so to the very

thing you guys seem to never think
about it's obvious that I was modestly

moderately interesting and so were that
conversation of about forty five minutes.

I came away thinking yeah this is really
something that's going to go on and

then everybody and then I think so

happy really happy to have it here
to share this unique perspective.

He's going to speak for now is the title
of his appreciation is fashionably late

Sundays among his nature technology and
the business world.

This is one of those now during going
to station myself over there and

you can watch it again.

Let's see if we can make this work.

First of all I

think you're probably right.

Only one place or not

you feel there right.

Was that.

Or maybe it's just you know

closer to the station and
this is basically all

you will I chose a better font that was
far too clever to to to work today and

I didn't get to install it on the machine
because we don't have a case.

So on some of the text will come
off the bottom of the page but

I have my own copy of some
of the help out as well.

So I can.

Basically I've got four parts
to to my whole presentation and

we'll go through them as you
know in a reasonable pace.

You know we start off with definitions of
you know what you're going to be talking

about and then he's mentioned the three
different arenas the natural world

the world of information technology and
the world of organizations and

business and what I'm actually going
to do today is make a case for

there being a kind of
natural zombie ism that

such a simple concept both in terms
of consciousness in terms of.

Natural activities that it's not
really surprising that it can kind of

make the leap into
different parallel arenas.

If you were a kid should start here
just go on to the definitions part.

And here's here is part of the problem
when you talk about matters of life and

if you are religious in nature then you
know you have to talk about whether or

not there is a soul present.

If you are not religious in nature then
you have like an even tougher problem

because well dead means it fell over and
hasn't gotten back up yet.

And we're still waiting and waiting and
you know eventually get bored with it and

put in the ground.

But you know sort of that.

OK it's a little insensitive but
you know when you're

dealing with topics that people don't
work nearly talk about over DOWNER You

don't have a chance to practice the the
social norms that go along with that.

But of that that it is a serious problem.

You know you talk about death as
the big door and once you walk past it.

You're gone.
But for the first twenty minutes or

so of death.

It's a revolving door.

You know you've worked with a.

By use ever dealt with you know
people emergency situations your

rooms you have got the paddles you've got

all kinds of opportunities to keep
the door spinning and try to grab them and

bring them back which you know brings
with my own personal fascination

with what's going on here is you have
a borderlands between life and death.

And all the interesting stuff
happens right at that very edge.

If you're familiar with it.

Vance mathematics perhaps you might up you
know about the topic of you know fractals

where the border of a country.

For instance is infinitely long it was
sort of a ruler you use because you

get to map every little curve
the border between life and

death eater either evolutionarily
speaking at the beginning.

Or.

Functionally speaking at the very end.

It's very complex territory and

I find it fascinating when does
a chemical process turn into a life form.

You know again without
resorting to religion

it's really really really
tough to map that territory.

So I like to work at it from you know
at least the beginnings standpoint

more than from the end you know when
to when do the processes that suffer.

You know feedback actually turn
into a living process for you.

So let's see we have next year.

I thought my notes will
probably be more here and

here we have the let's see
the previous slide was a mention of

a problem determining what a soul is
these are scenes from Blade Runner.

I'm sure it's a familiar enough movie for
most you present.

You know you have
a constructed individual.

That looks very like a normal
individual in fact to

use the same actors to portray them.

And here he is undergoing a K.

a test for for
empathy empathic reactions to see if.

He is actually a human being you know
they kind of make the point in an offhand

way that it really doesn't matter
except in terms of you know some

sort of sort of artificial social context
whether or not they're alive or so.

But but
dealing with zombies in particular.

Again you know functional definitions and
I'm not talking about you know that.

As much as a historical as
you know common context.

We have you know some things
that we used to define

whether something or someone you know
a commuter on the train next to us on

one of our coworkers who haven't hasn't
had their coffee yet this morning what it

what it takes to actually consider someone
you know to something to be a zombie and

you have you know someone who
is supposed to you know that

you recognize as being a functional human
being not actually being so functional.

You have traits that are portions of
their identity that seem to be missing.

You know the priorities that
they used to exhibit or

have now been replaced with something
else in traditional you know popular

culture any way zombie ism is you know far
more communicable than you know having

some hardworking source or you know take
care of you and put you into the state.

You know accidental contact or

you know a bite while you're not paying
attention you know is this sufficient.

And then you end up with you know sort of

the other features of zombie ism that
makes them more and less or if it.

You know a zombie movie is not going
to go anywhere with a single zombie.

This is not terrifying.

You've just got the one and
it's you can run away.

You can knock it down.

I mean it's just one zombie is not
a harsh show you really need to be

completely in overwhelmingly outnumbered
with that threat of being even.

Further outnumbered as
the as the situation there.

You know progresses.

And that's the other part of it.

You have you know an individual zombie
possibly is aware that there are millions

more so it's not really all that intent on
defending itself it just needs to commit

that one act that would transmit
the problem to make it your problem

and that gets to the end
of the idea of motivation.

You know what is the zombies motivation.

When you're dealing with a concept
where they don't really seem

to have much of one but they do take
actions and it's you know you have to

analyze what those actions might be
to try to figure out what is up.

So I've got two different
ideas that could be

the driving forces behind zombies you
know one is there is a zombie master that

is controlling the zombies and
has given them instructions somehow.

And is trying to get them to perform
some goal is not their own but

a central goal of the of
the controlling entity and

the other thing is actually something
that happens in nature all the time.

We have a bunch of organisms that are
built on you know largely the same design

that have two or three very simple rules.

You know if those rules are brain
transmit virus you know you've only

got you know very you
know two to work with and

if they're all in the same environment
suffering the same stimuli.

They will all act pretty much
the same as a unified horde.

And you know here are some
possibilities of you know with them as

if examples you know that there's a book
by Madeleine L'Engle A Wrinkle in Time.

Is anyone ever Some of us have

to remember back pretty far
to get there but there was a.

A small city where everybody
did the same thing

everybody all the kids played
the same way in the same rhythm and

this kind of facility had captured one
of the main characters of the book and

they were trying to rescue him away
from the controlling brain and

actually what that has to do with.

Some Central American bat God is lost on
me but that's where the name came from

and I mentioned that the zombie master you
know you resurrected a bunch of zombies

and now you put them to work for
you either is soldiers or farm workers or

whatever and
you know we have another right.

You know concept of that from
a different form of my dad it

hardly matters at this point where you
know someone who is the cause of the rest

of them being in the soup that they
are has some sort of control over them.

I you know whether they have their souls
in prisons and can give them orders or

if they're just you know some sort of
weird vampiric family hierarchy thing.

But on the other side literally
on the other side for

me today we have the you know herd and

pack behavior which is again you have
a bunch of individuals that share a common

goal a common such an extent of
commonality that they work together.

Either you know accidentally or

due to having realized that someone
else is better at certain things.

So you cooperate and
I've got just barely visible to

most of you this thing this is
a medieval slime mold metaphor.

I don't know if I'm just not
going to assume many people

are familiar with slime molds today and
just jump right into it the amoeba

as its own individual you know
it's a lot smaller than that but

we're going to pretend you can see it
is completely autonomous It's pound for

pound the most vicious predator on earth.

Literally engulfed anything that it
cares to eat it just surrounds it and

consumes it but you know bunches and
bunches of them mean

they don't exactly team up and
form any kind of hunting packs.

You know that but when resources dwindle.

When there is not enough water or
food in the area they actually

do come together as a communal
organism as a as a colony.

You know like you hear about for
jellyfish and such they form transmission

tissues for removing nutrients
around they form fruiting bodies and

spores and until you take them apart.

It's really hard to tell that they're
exactly the same organism just under

separate drastically
separate conditions you have

the free swimming I get you know
capitalist who you have the Congress

version of or they hold everything in
common and transmitted according to need.

And if you know you don't really think
of political models and time and

microbes but apparently this sort of
structure happens all the way down to

single celled organisms and well I guess
the argument is multi-celled organisms

get their start in just this fashion and
I've got an extra bullet point down here

that is completely invisible for each of
these you know the centralized mind model.

Largely does not occur in nature without
actual you know threats of violence and

hostages and things like that and
the other the emergent behavior for

a community organisation that happens all
the time sometimes whether you want it

to or not and
which brings us to our second set which

is catch up on my notes here.

How it actually happens in nature.

More specifically got five different.

Samples here they can be pretty disgusting
so we'll go through pretty quickly of

again we're working on microbes and
such as the causative agents but

the things that are actually
being controlled at this point.

And we are talking a you know literal
mind control or more complex organisms.

We have a type of fungus here right at
the top we have a microscopic you know

fluke that swims around and you're in
danger but you know well what accounts for

an answer bloodstream I guess we have
something that's a little bit larger.

It's an actual name a toad.

Or no matter or worm and
it's completely macroscopic and

then we have a couple of you know
a microscopic agent that affects mammals

just to get out the bugs around but you
know if you're trying to prove a point you

start small and then a really
disturbing microbe at the very end and

all will get to that when it when it's
time that we start off with a a spore that

lands on an ant tunnels and with a little
you know fungus fibers into its body.

It consumes the ants into your organs but
not the critical ones.

And then it induces a kind of.

The and

has to do certain things once
this fungus has taken over it.

It has to find a particular place
up off the ground that is the right

temperature and humidity and clamp on
with its little jaws and then die.

And when it dies it produces these little

fruiting bodies and for years and
you know it's kind of hard to see and

focus that we have here with
the light levels but the.

Portal thing there is holding
on with its jaws like this

was its idea is probably not its idea.

You know the next one.

I'm a well actually the.

Fungus that is that is attacking this and
is actually related to

the fungus is that we are actually
studying for medicinal purposes in people

who are immune suppression and for
protection from the radiation.

During I'm chemical treatments and
it's not really a foreign concept of

the chemicals that might be causing this
and to take certain actions may actually

be things that would be of use and helping
and controlling human medical conditions

with the next we have
the this is the Lancet flu.

I'm not going to go into white and see
what they eat but it includes snail slime

and when they're consuming this they take
in little sis that then infect the and

in particular ways including one
of the little cysts will hatch for

just the one and go up to ignore of
gangland it's right by it's a softness and

then make it climate related grass

every night when the temperature starts
to go down and just hang on at the top.

And if nothing happens as the day
heats up again the next day comes it.

Climbs back down the stalk and rejoins
the the team back at the nest A but

if a passing Calcutta's by needs it.

Well that's awesome for the flukes because
that's where they live so this whole part

of this whole process is how the flute
continues its own life cycle the ant

is a vehicle that performs specific
tasks that this thing makes it perform

that is certainly of no good use
to the ant and is very strange.

I'm sure to the other ants
where you go every night.

That's the next we have
to hear word this is.

Something that again gets into
grasshoppers and crickets and

katydids you know that some of the
prettier and nicer and more harmless of

the insects and what happens is this
worm hatches inside of these animals and

just winds around its innards in
a fairly noninvasive kind of way

until the grasshopper gets close
enough to a body of water and

then they're not really sure how or
why but

there's some of the proteins exuded
by the name of the name Adam or

from a kid confused about
how gravity works so

maybe that's it just makes
it misjudge how it jumps.

But jumps into water and the worm climbs
out and looks for another warm and

then they made you know
there are videos for

this on You Tube feel free to
look that up on your own time.

That is not you know these
things are nasty but

completely macroscopic we
have left the realms of you

know little things that are invisible
that can get inside of you.

This is you know definitely a more complex
organism they swim like little eels and

was very graceful in the water and

then there's another microorganism this is

a the causative agent for talk so pleasant
was this you know if you're pregnant.

They tell you don't go anywhere near
a cat's litter boxes make that your

husband's job as if it wasn't already for

most of us but
outside of humans and in rats.

It has a very interesting
thing that it does.

And it's rats ordinarily when
they smell cat urine and

decide that this is not a good place to
be and you know that makes perfect sense

if your rat because you know you really
shouldn't hang around workouts are because

they eat you a rat that is
infected with Toxoplasma gondii.

Suddenly is fascinated by
the scent of cat urine.

It usually ends poorly something

yellow all disgust that the cup in his
office for his clothes just decide to skip

on but this is a wild mouse
that somebody on Flicker

cut was jumping onto the head of his cat
the cat has not had chance to react yet

and he snapped a picture because he
wasn't expecting any of this but

you know what usually happens
after this is perfect for

the lifecycle of toxoplasma gondii which
continues in feel annoyed creatures

rats are a vector and

nothing else they get into cat feces
to pick up the little cysts and

transmit the life form back to the cats
where it's a natural host rumors

are actually that talks of plasma Gandhi
has some sort of effect on humans as well

you can watch the debate on this
rage daily in which a pedia

because you know anyone can edit it so
certain paragraphs keep appearing and

disappearing it's possible at
the time I put this together.

It did not say anything about the fact
that when you know the people who

are infected by Toxoplasma gondii actually
undergo personality changes they go and

they definitely undergo measurable
changes in reaction time it

makes that it can slow you down
horribly in fact statistics that

they pointed that I went to go check
out that it actually looked relevant.

So you were six times as likely
to be in a car accident.

If you are infected by Toxoplasma gondii
what it does not actually say is that

you're six times more likely to be a cat
lady but that is in fact what some

people are arguing is that it
makes you more trusting and

warm hearted and
actually changes you in ways that.

Makes it more likely that you
will encourage a place for

the hosts of toxoplasma gondii jury still
help kick what could be a tomorrow.

And this is a disturbing one that I
just mentioned earlier to the stand and

it's a very interesting thought this is
this is well Bach Yes it is a reproductive

parasite and probably the most common
reproductive parasite in the biosphere

it gets into bugs because you
know bugs are easy to hack.

If you're a virus.

And what it does is it causes all sorts
of things largely is bad news for males.

It can cause them to die.

You'd think this would be
the end of a species but

it's got more tricks in that it
also causes Parkin to Genesis.

It's transmitted largely you
know only along the female

chromosome you know that it's only
in the females that this has only so

it actually pairs down
the number of males in the nest

to maximize its own existence and
actually can.

There are many species now that have
been effect infected by various

strains of Obamacare.

That just do not have males anymore and
get by just fine.

It's a bad precedent but

worthy of note in that you know some
small microbe can actually have such

an overwhelming effect on other
species for its own purposes.

In fact some of the other changes that it
makes in these things as it is you get

more of a hive structure than you know
the central family that you see you know

with the mommy wasp and
the daddy wasp and all the baby off and

it's it's not like that anymore.

You get a you get a queen you get.

You know someone whose job it is to
to replicate get other workers and

it just really looks like.

Those are the collective has taken over
your hive Once you have this all back in

fact a warning strains of Orbach Yeah
this is largely irrelevant but

if you're Wasp was infected by one cannot

interact with I mean to the males of the
species if they are infected by it cannot

interact cannot meet with other
infected while Bucky is strains and

backs will cause the death
of the egg cells.

If Woods are transmitted at
the point of fertilization.

So that's the cytoplasm again
compatibility was talked about down here.

But yeah this is causing rapid rapid
changes in species a shift for

you know different strains
of insects that get it but

on something that's actually disturbing
to me is someone has already pointed out

to me similarities structurally and
function wise between robotic Yeah.

And another microbe that is actually not
a microbe we've been carrying it for

years ever since we turned multicellular

it's an organ our mitochondria are inside
all of our cells we actually use them for

energy sources on so
you know level they are transmitted

through the female side of of things
in fact you can track genetic

you know strains of humans back along
their female lines by analyzing

the mitochondrial D.N.A.
because that's how it's transmitted.

If you know males weren't
entirely eliminated this point

maybe is an oversight maybe it was just
kinder I don't know but and again I've

got a disclaimer I would down here this
is largely you know specialisation.

And then wild speculation had that
because I couldn't find any real

evidence other than the fact that
people were talking about it.

So they'll probably be
papers about this too.

Three years on down the line but on some
of the cooler things to think about for

growth that will Bucky and
mitochondrial work.

You know you've got enormous
segments of spiral D.N.A. zzzzz.

I actually practice this gesture a lot is
very different than tell you that you know

certain certain genes are turned on and
off by a mechanism.

I will affectionately called
clamping it's just some chemical

squeeze a certain of the coils together
and that becomes accessible to our

neighbor transcription these chemicals
that cause these the compressions for

turning genes on awful some of those
are actually produced in the cells via

transcription I mean is a very overly
complicated machine for what it does but

some of these chemicals that cause
those come from anywhere everywhere.

Your diet your parasites in your body
all kinds of things actually have

epigenetic influence
on how your cells work

which is the perfect way for
a microbe to hack our own system

if it was going to you know
it's the amount of change.

You know the amount of code we
have in our D.N.A. is huge.

We use you know of what we understand
of it maybe five to ten percent

the rest of it.

They call junk D.N.A. actually turns
on and turns off as cell functions but

you know people playing with the junk
D.N.A. and chickens have produced tails

and teeth which seems to
me like a very bad idea.

Chickens are yes yes this is if you've
ever actually seen any of them or

you know it's and
I can say anything about eating them.

I mean with that but anything that
would take a chicken back towards its

earlier Vall also Raptor this
is just a bad idea in my book

makes a good story has made several
good movies does not belong

in real life or Montana and Canada where
they're actually doing this experiment.

So you know when they escape.

I will give you the names of
the people responsible but

to leave the leave the natural.

I'll be going to the natural world
which is my personal playground.

I've been working with information
technology for ages and

ages I got started doing models of
biological civs systems on computers

because it was fine and
as if you're going to do the Frankenstein

thing if you keep it in a little box
no one can tell what you're doing.

No one comes by with pitchforks and
torches.

And also there's a big read off switch for

if it gets out of here
you know artificial life.

You know you the arguments continue and
go on at length and volume for what.

Actually it takes to for a process
to be life I mean if you model life

correctly at the small enough
levels where you draw the line.

I mean we just kind of believe.

And maybe it's a good thing that if it
happens in the little box with the big

write offs which it doesn't have to count
because you know there would be activists

trying to protect the lives of these
things and we'd have to deal with them.

And it's complicated.

But once you modeled all the processes.

You can do you have to draw your line.

Is this actually close enough to be real.

Is it not.

So we've got you know a couple
of examples of you know.

Well I'll skip through some of
the more boring technical parts but

you know the part of the problem is that
Big Read off switch was not quite fast

enough because we already have.

Well transmissible organisms that
come in through your email inbox or

your web browser and make your computer
normally your friend do things that you

don't want to basically get

into the problem of generating spam
as you get through some of this.

There's a very you know these these
these viruses these things make computer

do things that you know remain that thing
with the ant Where do you go at night

so and then some of them actually
require human intervention.

You know your aunt just
got onto the Internet and

she's found all these whole things and
they keep showing up in your mailbox.

You've seen them ten years ago.

In fact they still have a date
on them from the ninety's and

you know but
the human interaction with computers

the system doesn't really you know
that border is not really well defined

you know that twenty minute revolving
door window between life and death.

There's an even longer and weirder one
between people in the equipment they used

to communicate and

let's get we're going to the to
the last section here where the code

is code you know whether
you're talking about D.N.A. or

or well the point I'm getting to here.

My laws and
articles of incorporation these rules

that have to be followed in order for
your corporation to exist and

you can just make them up people
who are who join corporations run

corporations that they get lawyers to put
together the code that their organization

organization uses to operate it can
include anything I do mean anything.

There are certain things that
are illegal or bad practices or

whatever but
you know these are his words and

they're made millions of them and
sometimes they put millions of them in

these documents which is usually bad you
really want to keep them small and simple.

Or it gets out of hand
you know we have the same

things that cause the early
transition from death to life or.

And you know because things can
happen to healthy corporations

that can make them into things
that were that should not exist.

Here's an example of viruses
that can happen to your company

that are transmitted through your Forbes
Money magazine you know these things where

somebody has an excellent idea and
it saves their own company and

your company is like not making as much
profit as your boards were like so you

try these things out of this book and
the transition can be horrible

because it's not tailored for your
company's seems like you're good at it.

Idea the time can and
somethings that are really

honestly good ideas are really
an enormous drain on a poorly.

You know poorly designed company and can
just tank your your your portfolio it can

you know eat your resources to the point
where your company is no longer viable and

then it just spends its existence
trying to explain to the board and

to the marketplace.

Why it's in the shape it's sand and
at that point it is dead and

lurching around and you know consuming
other things madly trying to

correct its own existence problem until
someone takes care of it with a shell

business organizations are not
the only organizations that can

fall prey to these kinds of thing.

Anything that has a charter that is how
your company acts how your organization

works is acceptable to the same sort of
invasive code problems you've seen it.

Hundreds of times I'll go
through a couple of examples.

Just to make sure that we are talking
about zombie companies here.

Basically what has happened to
the Republican Party in the past twenty.

Thirty years is a classic example of
something that used to make sense and

now does not at all.

See back here.

Yeah that the early church suffered a you
know that her early Christian church

suffered a really bizarre change if you've
ever done any analysis to look at him how

it operated before and after the Apostle
Paul Zz doctrines became incorporated and

whether that was a good thing or
a bad thing.

I don't know.
It certainly more explosive thing and

communicable thing after
that happened whether or

not you think of philosophies as you
know an epidemiological phenomenon or

not leaving out the value judgements
both for the Republicans and

the early Christians here you have
to make up your own mind the I.S.O.

nine thousand thing when it came out
in order to be I assume one thousand

certified completely you had to sign
this whole thing that says that you

would only do business with other business
partners who also I assume one thousand

certified that was weird and

set off every alarm in my head and

you know you again when you're the
adoption of processes that work fine for

some people that might not be exactly best
effective uses of your company's resources

for its own sake might be good for the
people who work for it and that's OK But

you've seen where companies existence and
the existence of the people inside of it

might not have any kind of meeting
place and that's always sad to watch.

But you know here's the here's the sun.

My point that you know you only need
a tiny set of very simple rules to make

the transition from one life to life and
once you have those rules

those rules can be hacked by anything
by chemistry by just simple chemistry

to some microbrew really wants you to
jump in a pond so it can escape and have.

A lovely night on the town.

And you know it.

These these are these are things
that you have to keep in mind.

When you're actually trying
to write organizational or

your top Anea for your computer program
for everything you really need to have

in your own head at least what
would count to be an immune system

that would look to see what is happening
and make sure you're properly funded from.

That gets me to the other one of you

on.