edward spence class of 1933 conducted by maryland summers on january the 23rd 1996 at his home in decatur georgia the subject of the interview is student life at georgia tech mr spence thank you very much for allowing us to come to your home today we appreciate being here and we want to hear your story will you begin at the beginning i'm glad you're here to ask me these questions, I'm very glad to give them to you. I entered Georgia Tech in 1929. I was there four years. I got a Bachelor of Commerce degree and I worked for my uncle at that time. I went to night school. Tell me who your uncle was. My uncle was named Robert Lewis Whaley. Had he graduated from your uncle? 

He's a role in my life. He went to Georgia Tech. He's a lawyer. I follow his role. Exactly. I'm also a CPA and a lawyer, and I followed his example. He was my role model I followed in life. Where were you born, sir? 

Born in Tomo, Georgia, 1911, and I was 84 years old. 

Did you know always that you were going to go to Georgia Tech? 

Did you always know you wanted to go to Georgia Tech? 

I knew. That was my role model. I knew I'd go there someday, somehow. Because of Mr. Whaley? 

Mr. Whaley, that's right. He was a role model I followed all my life. and this was your mother's brother my mother's mother's brother and so finally it came time you were old enough to go to school and you decided to go to the night school is that correct well see i had no i had to wait for them and i had no money except what i earned so i had to make my own money so i had to make my money to go to school so i went to night school and the school that time was on from downtown, on Farley Street, over a store. 

Oh, really? 

And then they later got their old building down the other part of town, and their old building, they went there for about three years and graduated, taking that building. 

How many students were in school at that time with you? 

Were they large classes? 

No, I'd say about, each class was only about 20 people. 

So you had small classes? 

Small classes. 

And what kind of classes would you have taken for this degree? 

I took mathematics, accounting, economics, history, English, regular courses you take in college. And you went to school full -time? 

Full-time. 

So did that mean you had to go every night? 

Every night. When did you do your homework? 

At night. When did you sleep? 

Well, you slept very little. You don't need to sleep when you're young, see? 

Oh, because you're young, you don't need to sleep. See, my uncle, he was pretty loose on me. I could study at work. I had my own office. When I kept books, when I got to keep books, I could study at work sometime, too, see? 

Oh. He was leaning on me, see, so I could study. 

So were you actually working for him then? 

Yeah, at that time, I kept books for him. And you mentioned, where did you live now during this time? 

At the YMCA. 

You lived at the YMCA, and this was the one that was downtown on Fowler Street? 

Yeah, Fowler Street. And his office was about two blocks, so I just walked. 

So you didn't have any need for a car? 

No, no need for a car at all. You walked to work, you walked to school? 

That's where I worked all the time. And that pretty much must have been your life if you got through it in four years. Yeah, that's where I had my whole life. I worked and studied all the time. Worked and studied all the time. Was it a pleasant experience? 

Very pleasant. I enjoyed all of it. I enjoyed to go to school, enjoyed to work. My work was interesting. I kept books for him. I enjoyed keeping books and going to school. It was, I had an enjoyable life, I was, I enjoyed it. It was a good way for you to live. Did you have, did they have interesting or good professors that taught in the night school? 

D. M. Smith, he was a world -renowned math teacher. And Eugene Gunner was taught history, I mean taught business law. He was extra talk, he talked very clear, he was about, he won't emulate the way he talked. And I had very good teachers at Georgia Tech, very wonderful. 

Now, D. M. 

Smith taught at the regular school, too, so he was teaching day school, Well, it was taught both schools, that's true, they both had taught both schools night and daytime. Oh, my goodness. 

So they had kind of a grinding routine, too, didn't they? 

That's right, too. We heard a lot of stories about D. M. Smith as being quite an interesting man. Yeah, he was an interesting man. He was an interesting man. He's a very interesting man. He kind of influenced the way you lived, too. He used to have a bad use like the father. He lived the way he lived. 

So he was another role model for you, then. Oh, yeah, role model. That's right. He's a very humorous man, too. He had to give up to him, too, you know. Did he? 

Well, that was interesting. He made math very interesting, too, like math. 

And so there you were living right downtown, going to school right downtown, and it was a good experience. It was a very wonderful experience. 

You didn't have time for any of the social things that would be associated with going to college then, did you? 

No, no, no, no. 

But you did join a fraternity. Yeah, I did, and they had dances once in a while. They had a dance, you know, and then I'd go to dances once in a while. 

So it wasn't us all working, no players, there was some play in there, too. 

So did you go to the dances that were held on the campus? 

No, downtown. Oh, they had them downtown? 

Mm-hmm. And they were sponsored by the fraternity? 

Yeah. Where did you get the girls? 

Well, I had a girl. Oh, you had time for a girl? 

Sure. 

Well, how could you have time for somebody? 

In fact, the girl I married later, I went to school with her. At the time, I got a lady later married her. I got my first wife. She's dead dead now. 

But that was right downtown, too, so you didn't need to go look somewhere else for a girl? 

She was right down there, too? 

You said you had gone to school with her? 

No, she lived in Decatur. Oh. I rode the bus out there, you could see her, back and see her. What was Atlanta like in 1929? 

Well, I can't see much change. See, everything's gone out the subway now. Yeah. 

Downtown is about the same, you've got the bases downtown, and the UPGP is still downtown, but it's the W-C-P-2 -H-3-G-E-S-C-O, but the downtown is the same, it's all just moved out, downtown's just moved out. 

What about the fact that the Depression occurred in 29 and 30, did you see much of an impact on Atlanta? 

Yes, well, nobody had jobs. 

But you had a job? 

I worked for my uncle. 

So you kept your job then? 

I kept my job. I kept my job. I had a job my whole life. 

Well you were very fortunate then, so you didn't have to get out looking for anything else. Did you notice that other people though? 

Well sure, everybody was out selling apples. Selling apples? 

On the street corner, he was out, down the limit, so he was out, nobody had jobs. The pressure station, nobody worked, nobody worked. And so Roosevelt, the president, he changed things. Roosevelt had a giveaway program, all these things he got, he started a giveaway program. The WPA and things of that sort. That's from your town, of course. Yeah. 

But we read about it. We know what happened. 

But you actually saw it happening. Right, what happened? 

I saw the guys out there without work. You actually saw people without work. There was some significant building going on in Atlanta at that time. They just opened the Fox Theater. Yeah. Do you remember that? 

Very much. Oh, yeah. The Fox Theater used to have wonderful shows every Sunday afternoon, two-hour shows. I had to do some of the name people, you know, play on the stage there. I used to hit my girlfriend out there to show you there. And it was cheap to, about 50 cents, you know, see a good show. 

So because you kept working, you could afford to do that, huh? 

So you got to see a lot of big-name entertainment, that one? 

Big-name entertainment, that's right. It was a beautiful theater. Yes, it was still pretty, still pretty. We still go there once a while. Do you? 

You take your current girl out there. Yeah. 

So you had a pretty good life, even though it was a depression. It didn't affect you too much. It was wonderful. My life has been, I tell my wife sometimes, I never wondered if anything in my life. I always had anything I wanted, just life's been good to me all the time. How wonderful. I think about it all the time. I've got a good life. How wonderful. 

And now, so you finally, did you ever at any time think that you wouldn't be able to complete your studies? 

No, never. You always knew you were going to get that degree. I knew I was doing. I knew I was going to get a law degree. I always, in my eyes, I was going to do these things and no question about it, just don't do it. 

So do you remember your graduation in 1933? 33? 

Yes. Where was it held? 

On the campus. On the campus. 

The mayor, what's his name, Ivan Allen, he was, you don't remember him, Ivan Allen? 

You're talking about Ivan Allen Sr. probably, aren't you? 

He graduated the same time I did. He was probably the same time I did. Oh, I see. 

So he was one of your classmates then? 

He was in the next school. I was in the next school. Yeah, yeah. 

Did you have an opportunity to make friends with classmates? 

I mean, did you make any kind of friendships that lasted with Georgia Tech people? 

See, I've lived with most of them. You think you've outlived most of them? 

Yeah, I had good friends in the fraternity. I had good friends in the fraternity. 

So that was a valuable contact for you? 

Very valuable. Most of that was in the fraternities. It was the best kind of thing I could have was a fraternity. 

Well, what happened once you had your degree? 

It was 1933 and you had your degree. What did you do then? 

I still work with my uncle. I still work with him all the time. 

And you made up your mind you were going to go on to law school? 

So when did you enter Emory? 

About four years later. 

And you eventually, in 1940, I think you said, got your degree? 

So there you were, a young man with two degrees, and what happened? 

When did you stop working for your uncle? 

Well, I stopped working for a young... 

I worked for a lady who had been in Florida for about a year, and I quit, stopped working for a publishing company, and I wrote some articles about taxation for the publishing company. They had two papers that I wrote for both magazines, just writing for them. People kept their books and kind of work with them. The World War II come on. Uh-oh. World War II. They come on. That's difficult for the war. I was in there. In fact, tech did this. I was in the Navy, Reserved Tech, and so I just kept going with tech even in the Navy. I was in the Navy in the Navy. And after World War II, I went to Korean War II. Oh, so you had quite a lot of military service then. I had a lot. I'd come out as commander, maybe. 

So when you came out of World War II, what did you do? 

When did you go with the IRS? 

At the World War II. And you had a long career with them. Yeah, about 20 years. And you were a special agent, you said? 

Special agent. 

In the field, in the field, like that special agent, that's when, that work, that people You know, Texas, I put them in jail for tax evasion. You were one of those guys, huh? 

Then I was there for a year, then I went to Washington. I was in Washington for nine years. I did writing my court decisions and reviewing court cases in Washington. Then they loaned me out to foreign countries. I worked for about ten years, nine years overseas. I was in Peru, Chile, Galatia, Indonesia, Thailand. Wow, you've seen a lot of the world then. And all that time you were working for the U. S. government. Yeah, yeah, U. S. government. And you stayed there that long a time, ten years away from this country. Yeah, yeah. 

Well, that was a rich experience. 

Well, you know, overseas I got big cities just like Atlanta. Big cities just like here. You had big hotels and restaurants. Everything was the same. Same thing. 

Did you have languages? 

Could you understand everybody's language? 

Well, when I was in South America, I had to learn Spanish. I went to Emerson every day from my island to go to Spanish. 

And you couldn't never speak, but you could go to the hotel and get your room and you could understand something. Good enough to get by. Get by, that's right. Yeah, yeah. 

And what did you do when you went to Malaysia and Thailand? 

Now, Spanish didn't help you over there. They spoke English out there. Oh, did they? 

They spoke everywhere in the works except in South America. They spoke English everywhere in my Malaysia. 

So that worked out fine. Yeah, it worked out fine. 

Did you find that your tech degree was valuable to you? 

Did you find that your degree was valuable to you? 

That's where I got jobs. I wouldn't get a job otherwise. 

So that was the key. That was the key, yes. 

Can you think of any stories that you might want to share with us about professors or about classes? 

Well, D. M. Smith, he was a wonderful teacher. I enjoyed him. He put humor into mathematics and Eugene Gunby. He could speak very well. He had a voice that was just a charm of snake and I enjoyed his talk very much. He took minutes along. And other professors, I can't remember too much about them, but they're all wonderful teachers there. That was a wonderful learning experience at Georgia Tech Night School. 

I said they had the same teachers that they should have, The same teachers taught more school, and that was a wonderful experience going to school. Which is hard to say. People just don't like to go to school. I enjoyed going to school very much. It was never hard for you. Were you a good student? 

Well, I finished about the top ten of my class in Georgia Tech. I guess you were a very good student. It isn't easy to have good grades at Georgia Tech. No, I know. They're not pushover teachers. That was very difficult. D. M. Smith, he's hard, but he made it very interesting. He's hard to use a folly on his school. 

So actually taking math classes were fun to you? 

Very fun, fun. Boggles the mind. 

Well, see, my mind, I'm a CPA. My mind runs in that line. For mathematics, yeah. Did you sit for your CPA after you graduated from Georgia Tech? 

Yes. 

Was that when you got licensed? 

You didn't have to go to school any extra for that? 

Yeah, I took special courses. for that. 

So that's a hard exam, that's one of the hardest examines in the world, I see the examination. 

You have to go to special schools just to see that they have a, you have the law, the theory, auditing, and the problems. 

Now the other three are either, but the problems never kill a horse, those problems. 

So where did you go to school to get the special training for that? 

Well they have special schools on site. Oh okay, so you went to CPA classes. Yeah and that was a challenge for you then. Big challenge. 

But your background at Georgia Tech helped you? 

Well it helped me tremendously. See I took math and you know statistics in Georgia Tech so that's a background for CPA work. 

So it prepared you well. Tell us what it was like to live at the YWCA. YMCA. YMCA. Oh yeah it would have been more fun at the YWCA. YMCA, I had a wonderful time there. 

I lived there 10 years, and they had a wonderful gymnasium, you know, I could go down and work out, and they had a good place to do sundays, and I made some good friends there, and that was 10 years. That was 10 years a good part of my life living at YMCA. And it was convenient. Convenient, convenient the way I worked, and on. It must have been very reasonable too. 

Well, five dollars a week, something like that. 

So cheaper than running a house or running an apartment or something. 

And also, see, you stand a mischief, like you're a wife and see you stand a mischief, you don't have girls, you look like a monk. 

So you weren't John Spence the monk in those days. Compared to some other guys, anyway. That's right. Some other guys, you don't have girls, you don't have all that stuff. 

But see, I just moved to the wife and see, and the wife and see, and go to school. Just a straight, straight line until World War II come on. 

Were there any other students that did that or were you the only one that lived at the YMCA? 

Or was that a common thing in those days for students to live there? 

That was the only one I did. You were the only Georgia Tech student living there? 

There was a YMCA on campus on North Avenue. Very few students lived in that. Just a few of them did. 

But this was the whole separate area. 

Can you think of any other stories about being a student that were interesting to you? 

Was your uncle proud of what you were doing? 

Very proud. He was proud. He was a role model. He was proud I followed. He was an example. In fact, I worked for him for a time and he followed my career as long as he lived. Unusual things. See, he took care of me and when he got old, people said I took care of him. Mike used to go to his house every afternoon, see about him, see he had needs. I see the nurses took care of him. He gave me power 20. I took all his financial affairs. 

So I took care of him for the last few years of his life. 

So he took care of me and I took care of him. Isn't that wonderful? 

It was a great trade for both of you, wasn't it? 

That's right. 

So he came to your graduation and took a lot of responsibility for what you were doing. That's grand. And he must have been pleased when you graduated from Emory also. He was proud of everything I did, so he followed my career as long as long as he lived. When did he graduate from Georgia Tech? 

Must have been in the 20s? 20s, I guess, yeah. Early 20s? 

Yeah. 

So, well, was he the only one in your family that ever went to Georgia Tech? 

Yes. 

So that you two are the Tech legacy. Yeah. 

Well, my brother, Tech in World War II, come on, and he, they got him out of Tech to go and then he went in the Marine Corps, he was a colonel of the Marine Corps, and then he's retired, and he lives in Miami. He also went to Georgia Tech. 

Yeah, but life didn't work good too, because he went down to go to Tech, he got a Marine Corps, and the Marine Corps, he's a colonel of the Marine Corps, and his life is good for him too, you know. Oh, that's great. 

Did you ever have an occasion to know George Griffin when you were at Georgia Tech? either in the Navy Reserves or? 

Yeah, he interviewed me when I went to the Navy. He interviewed me before I went to the Navy, you see? 

Oh, he did. He wanted to see who I was and what I was like. He was an interesting character. He was an interesting character. When I went to the Navy, he interviewed me before I went to the Navy. 

Well, heck, I mentioned, but he wanted to see who I was before I actually went to the Navy. Yeah, I guess he was responsible for the ROTC programs and the Navy Reserve programs. 

And that was a good thing to go in the Navy for you? 

That took out to be a good thing? 

It was very good. The Navy was a wonderful organization. It was a clean cut and they had wonderful officers and I served. Did you see any duty overseas? 

Never see it. What happened to me is they put me in Jacksonville, Florida, putting guns on ships. 

And then later they put me in Washington, a desk job, a rail walker, I bet they're washing the same, on the same desk, do the co-rail wash the whole time. 

So you must have been doing something pretty valuable. They didn't need to put you out on a ship somewhere. 

Well, I knew about, I knew accounting, I knew about logistics, I knew things like that. I knew how to, you know, keep track of things forever, so. Which is an important part of any kind. Right. 

So the labor was part of my, one of the part of my experience, too, I treasured that tremendous labor. 

So it didn't matter when they recalled you back for the Korean War. No, I was glad to go back, let go back. Disrupted your life, though. 

Well, my life didn't get interrupted all along, but it's always for good, though. Always been for good one way or the other. 

So you were flexible, you were ready for changes. I'm ready for changes, right. There were always positive changes. Oh, yes. 

Well, it must be, you must have started working for the IRS after you came back from Korea then, after the Korean effort. No, Washington, at World War II. Oh, after World War II. 

And so when the Korean conflict came about, you were working for the IRS at that time? 

No, no, I was working, the guy was working for a publishing company. I see, I see. 

Well, when you look back on it all, Mr. 

Spence, what was your, what do you think was your greatest accomplishment? 

Well, I guess one is to finish at Georgia Tech, that overdo for me a lot of things. And I think in the Navy, World War II and Korea, that was a good experience. 

So overall, you just feel like a lucky guy, huh? 

And I also married two wonderful women, my first wife was a wonderful person, when I got there, I was a wonderful person, all those wonderful experiences. you were pretty lucky all the way around did you ever have any children no so you've you've had your full career and your wonderful wives and it's been a good life that's what i couldn't ask anything better i could go with one i never go about one thing that i couldn't i couldn't choose one thing about my whole life what a remarkable thing to be able to say that if you went back you wouldn't change anything one thing do you feel like you you were born at a good time and you Good time. Good time. Good time. Good time. Give me a lot of good time. I was in Washington, D. C. the good time. That's marvelous, isn't it? 

The overseas is a good time. 

Can you think of anything else you want to share with us today about John Spence's life? 

You're a happy man. 

Well, I'm a happy man and I guess that's a lot of people in in the world like that, but I guess not all people are happy. You're absolutely right. Not many people are happy. 

I was going to say that's, I can't, I was, what you read the paper, there's a lot of grief and a lot of good in the world, but my life has been a grief, they've been in trouble, they've been a charmed life. How wonderful. Thank you so much for sharing your story with us. We really appreciate it. 

Well, I enjoy talking to you now. Okay.