This is a living history interview with Ernest Welch, class of 1928, conducted by Marilyn Summers on June the 9th, the year 2003. 

We are at his home in Atlanta, Georgia, and the subject of our interview today is his life in general, his experiences at Georgia Tech. Mr. Welch, what a pleasure it is to meet you and be here with you. 

You're somewhat of an Atlanta celebrity now, so we're really very excited that you could find some time to share with us today. 

So tell me your story. Where did it begin? 

Where were you born? 

I was born in Lafayette, Alabama. 

That is spelled L-A -Y-F-E-T-T-E, the name for the French general Lafayette, but if you call it that you mispronounce it. They say you didn't know where you came from. Right. And what year was that? 

May the 3rd, 1906. And what were your parents doing in Lafayette? 

How did you say that? 

Lafayette? 

Lafayette. Lafayette. My dad was a dentist. His father was the town dentist then. Right. There wasn't more than one probably. That's right. And so that's where they had settled in? 

That's right. And you were raised there then? 

Not entirely. We came to Atlanta in 1921. 

But you had gone through elementary school by that time. That's right. The reason we came to Atlanta then was Lafette was 100% agricultural. The carton was selling ten cents a pound. His patients could not pay him. He went to school in Atlanta so he already knew a lot of dentists here. 

So he decided to come to Atlanta. 

So he came to Atlanta and opened an office in the Cantona building where he practiced medicine and dentistry for many years. What was Atlanta like when you came here? 

Well, Atlanta was a population of about 250,000. 

So it was a big city compared to you. that's right a great difference today when you think back did you get a fairly good education in alabama at that time it was a small town did they have a good education system i thought i was getting a good education but when i moved atlanta after being in a small town where everybody knew me i had a hard time i came to atlanta the first year of high school and i had a hard time that That first year. Where did you go? 

The professor was just too easy on me. What year did you, which high school did you go to? 

I went to Tech High School. You went to Tech High School over where the grade is today. And you thought you knew everything until you got there and found out you didn't know so much. Isn't that funny how we think, we kid ourselves about that. 

But that was typical education for the South. That's right. 

Well, how did you do at Tech High? 

Well, Tech High did all right after I got started. It was okay. I graduated and then ended up at Tech and I did all right at Tech. 

And what made you think about going to Tech? 

My dad was a good dentist, but he was a very poor businessman. He couldn't send me. Ah, money. 

So that's the reason I went to school at night. Right. I had a job and I worked and went to school. Money was a big factor, keeping you local, right? 

Right. And you had no ideas then about what kind of a career you wanted. You didn't know. No, I didn't. 

So your dad probably told you, well, go get that degree, it'll do something. I thought I was going to study medicine. Oh, did you? 

Yeah. All of my family were doctors. My granddad and my dad was a dentist and two uncles were doctors. They were just sitting there going to study medicine, but I didn't because we were too broke. Yeah, it cost too much money. Right. And that was just as the Depression was starting to set. Right. 

You know, it set in in the South a little earlier than it did the rest of the country, so things were a little bit tough then. Was Atlanta a good place for you to move to? 

Did you like living here? 

Yes, I liked Atlanta. You did, so you had a pretty good life going? 

I had a good life in Atlanta. Yeah. Tell me what school was like at that time. What kind of classes were you taking? 

Well, let me explain something. I took business and Mr. 

Fred Wynn, the professor at Georgia Tech, a billionaire named after it, taught me a course in corporation finance. And then I had a course in investments. 

So from that background, it taught me a grade, which I applied later. Today, I'm well-o'd financially because of what I learned at Georgia State. I learned how to invest money. At Georgia Tech. Right. Isn't that amazing? 

Something you learned all those years ago made a difference. Right. And you're giving credit where credit is due. Right. Fred Wynn is long gone, but he'd be happy to know that somebody carried on what he taught. There were women in your classes. Yes, there were. A lot of people say women didn't come to Georgia Tech, but you know better. A lot of them took accounting. At one of the alumni meetings I met some of them, and all of them have had good business careers. 

So there were a lot of women. It wasn't unusual for you to see a woman in a class. There wasn't a lot of them, a few. Yeah, but you weren't surprised. There wasn't as many as today. Oh, no, no. It's different today. 

But you weren't surprised. No, no. It was an expected thing. 

What buildings were they using at that time for you? 

Was it the old GSU campus now? 

No, most of the night courses were downtown. The way I started was on Forsyth Street. There was a building upstairs and then they moved. I can't remember the name of the other street. 

Then later, just after I finished, but I went back and took some courses there, it was down on Walton Street. Yeah. I remember there were some buildings on Walton Street. 

What job were you working at during the day? 

I worked for, it was then retail credit cabinet today, it's Equifax. Oh, so you were at the very beginnings of that company. Did they help pay for your tuition or anything? 

No, no. 

You know how to do it on your own, huh? 

Did you have any interest in the sports and what was going on at Georgia Tech? 

Did you follow the football team? 

Oh, I went to all the football games. Did you really? 

And it was a much smaller crowd in those days. It was. It was a smaller stadium. That would have been the time when Coach Alexander had taken over from Heisman. And we had some pretty good teams at that time, lots of good football players anyway. 

So you were around the year that they went out to California. You had just graduated probably when they went out to California for the Rose Bowl. The year that I graduated they played in the Rose Bowl. Do you remember that at all? 

I remember it well. I couldn't go then, but years later I went to one of the Rose Bowl games just for that reason. Did you really? 

I did. Never too late, huh? 

Dr. Britton, president of the university at that time, lived on West Beach Street, not too far from us. Yeah. In fact, his house is still there. His house is still there. Yeah, it's still there. It's up from 14th Street. Right. Yeah, between 16th and 14th. Isn't that interesting? 

You got to see him then. Yes. He was part of the mingling crowd. He came to the games and such. What is your strongest memory of that time, Mr. 

Welch? 

What's your strongest memory of your going to school? 

It took you four years to go? 

Yeah, well, I belonged to Alpha Kappa Si, a business fraternity, and we had a good time then. We worked hard and played hard too. We did too. 

So you made a lot of friends then? 

Right. Made a lot of friends at that time. At that time, had you started your interest in photography? 

No, I had not. 

So you weren't taking pictures left behind then, huh? 

So it took you four years? 

Yes. You enrolled in 24 and graduated in 28. That was pretty good. Right. Pretty good for the times because some people took a lot longer than that to get through. 

So once you had your degree, did you change jobs or did you stay with Equifax? 

Well I changed jobs, not immediately, but later I changed jobs. I wanted to get on, I was sitting behind a desk and I never was much of a desk fellow. 

I wanted to get on the outside, and I told them that the retail credit company did that, but they put me in the sales department, but I was still behind a desk. Not one of the robin sales. That's right. 

So later I left. You went looking for another place. 

And did you start, what job did you go to next after that? 

Well, it was a national paper company, but I never left them. The National Paper Company was later bought by Sunoco Products Company, from which I retired. Oh, okay. 

So you only really had to make two different changes from the early Equifax to that. World War II came along in 1941 when we entered the war. Did you get drafted or did you enlist? 

I got drafted, but I'll tell you an interesting story. I applied for a commission in the Navy, and you had to have your college credits then. And I got them, and when I got ready, I phoned them and asked them to get them for me. The scoobas down on Walton Street then. When I went to pick them up, who do you think was there to give them to me? 

Mr. George Sparks, President of Georgia State University. Oh, really? 

Really? 

I knew them well I'd had classes under them. 

So that was something I've always thought of. The day it's so large I couldn't possibly do that. That was the early history of the school. That's right. It was called the Georgia State Business School then? 

I don't know. For a while it was the University of Georgia. Yeah. Then I don't remember. Or it was just Georgia Tech and then in 32 it became University of Central Georgia Business School. And then I think, I don't know, by the 40s I think it was Georgia State Business School. 

And George Sparks himself was there, huh? 

Well what happened? 

The Navy didn't take you? 

They didn't take me for, I wasn't big enough. Oh. I was a half an inch too short, I didn't measure enough in the chest. and I was 25 pounds underweight and that was all that was wrong so then I got drafted. 

The army wasn't as fussy huh? 

Yeah and the first day that I was drafting marching from building to building I heard somebody call my name as a man that had been with a retail credit company in New York somebody had told told him that I was getting drafted and he said that he had applied for a counterintelligence course and suggested I do the same thing. 

So that night, this was the first day, they let anybody that lived in town come home. 

So we came home and we had to be back on duty the next day at a certain time in the afternoon. And I met him downtown and we had lunch at a restaurant on Lucky Street. I forgot the name of it. Man Gregory from Georgia State that ran the thing. Oh, at Frank Gordy's place? 

No. On Lucky Street, on Lucky Street you said. Yeah. I don't remember. Herndon's. That's not it. Yeah. There was a Herndon's restaurant down there. Heron's. Heron's. Heron's. Yeah, the old Heron's restaurant. 

What was your time? 

While we were sitting there having lunch and we had one drink before lunch, he said, Colonel Everett, the head of it was over in the Gila building. 

He said, why don't you go and see Colonel Everett right now? 

I said, well, I hate to go after having a lunch. I mean, after having a drink. 

Then I said, well, what difference does it make? 

So I got up and went to see him, and he said, when he got through knowing about me, he said, I'll have you tag right now. I said, wait a minute, let me think about it, and I'll call you tomorrow. It went too fast for you then. Yeah. 

So the next morning, that night, it was real cold. 

I had one blanket I liked to have frozen to death, so I got up and said, Pete, you know what I decided? 

Colonel Everett said we'd be living in hotels, didn't you? 

I said, yeah. He says, I decided to take it. 

So I went to the telephone and called him, he said, I thought you'd go. Yeah. Isn't that amazing that they gave you that much choice? 

It is. To do that. 

So where did you take basic training? 

It was Fort Bragg, North Carolina. 

So they bagged you and shipped you on right away, huh? 

And you were in the Army for? 

Three years. And it was during three very busy years, turbulent years. Did you go overseas? 

Yes, I did. I was stationed down at Macon, Georgia for just a short time after I went into the Corps. Then just not too long after D-Day, I went in on the beach in France. I had an assignment to go to the town of Carrington, C-A-R-E-N-T-O-N. I think that's the way you spell it. The town hadn't been taken. 

So that was true of everybody, nine of us on the team. We stayed in a cow pasture there for about a week or ten days, sleeping in a foxhole. And from there we went to St. Mary Gliese, the first town that was taken. Then on in and finally got to Carrington. Wow. I lived in a cafe in Carrington. You lived in the cafe? 

Used an armor cart. 

But that was better than sleeping out in the cold. Yeah, better than a foxhole. I went back there after the war, too. To look? 

To see what it was like, huh? 

To look. I stayed in the hotel there. 

Well, while in the pasture there, they were flying and bombs were falling, you know. Gills would come right out in the pasture under fire and milk. And they'd bring these big milk, these brass cans, and they're milking these brass cans. And I wanted one. 

Well, after we got in, it kind of got settled. 

Well, I tried to, you go in the farm, we were going in a lot of farm homes making investigations. Every one of them, the whole kitchen would be filled with this branch, you know. 

I tried to buy one off of some of the farm, and they wouldn't sell it, because they couldn't replace it. And they needed it for the milk. 

But finally somebody told me Hardaway and Butcher, and B-A-Y-E-U-X, had some. 

So I went to see him about a half a dozen times, and finally got my milk can, which I've got. You've still got enough of all of them. And you lugged that all the way back? 

No, I mailed it. Oh, you mailed it. I was going to say, wow, what a mess of what that had to be. 

So, my goodness. That was your war souvenir, huh? 

Right. Some people were bringing back helmets and guns, and you brought back a milk can. Right. I'd say you had your priorities straight, you knew what you were doing. 

What kind of an experience was the war for you? 

Was it a scary experience or was it a pretty good experience? 

Well, I was lucky. I was in combat, you know, in and out of the front lines all the time. Some of our people got killed, but I never got hurt, fortunately, so it was scary. Yeah, it had to be scary. It had to be. Especially if you knew people who got injured. 

So you had good luck. I had good luck. You had very good luck to be there. To be here all these years later telling me about it is pretty good luck too, isn't it? 

Right. 

Well, one of my best friends was killed before we got into France where I was in England. I was supposed to go in the hotel and they were full. And I went to a little country hotel in a little town eight miles by and that saved my life. 

Really? 

If you'd have gone with your friend you'd have been gone too, huh? 

I'd say you had pretty good luck then. I did. Yeah, really good luck. 

So you got shipped back to the country when the war was over. Yes. You shipped back to the United States. Did you come back to Atlanta, Georgia? 

Yes, I did. Went back to the same job I had. job picked up your life again and but the war the the war really had a huge effect on atlanta on georgia it did and that lots of people came back to school and the town sort of really changed didn't it with all the returning veterans and the gi bill that's right women having gone out to work everything was different um moving faster maybe huh right the war than before the war They say the roaring 20s was big time, but there were hard times then too. 

But there were no hard times in the 50s. Everybody was okay. Everybody had money, and they were going to school, and you were working, regular jobs. I was treated with great respect when I got back by my boss. We always got along well together, but after that, I could do no harm. 

Well, you were a hero. You had put yourself on a line for the country, so that's the way it's supposed to be. Everybody's hero. You're a real patriot. 

So I'm glad that they were decent. I guess everybody wasn't, so again, you were lucky that they were decent to you. 

Were you by that time with Sunoco, or were you with Sunoco? 

No, I was still a National Paper Company. They became Sunoco in 1957. Oh, okay. 

So when you came back, you were working for National Paper Company. Right. 

So that would have been, what, in the late 40s and early 50s that you went back. 

What was going on in Atlanta at that time? 

What was life like here? 

A lot of building going on? 

Not immediately, later. That's when they first started putting houses up for all the attorneys. Yeah. A lot of houses were being built. Not a lot of commercial buildings? 

It was a pretty happy town? 

Oh, yes. It was definitely. 

Now by this time you were already starting to be interested in cameras and taking pictures, right? 

While I was in Europe, after we kind of got out of the first fighting, I had an old Kodak camera. I wrote to my mother and asked her to mail it to me and that is what I made pictures with. I've got an album in here. And John McWilliams, who was the director of the art school, was here one evening. We were good friends and his wife too. His wife teaches at Emory. He glanced through that album and he said, let me borrow this. I want to take it down and have some copies made. 

So he took it and that's how that picture out there that's And then the lobby of the gallery got enlarged. 

So you had taken some pictures in Europe then? 

I made some pictures in Europe and the last show I had, one wall of the gallery was palladium platinum prints that I specialized in, and the other three walls were all the war pictures. Oh, so you've shown a lot of your pictures then. 

So that really was the beginning of you developing photography as a hobby. It was the beginning of you developing travel as a hobby, too. Right. Yeah. You said, whoa, there's a lot more world out there. 

So you set upon yourself, you take your hobbies very seriously. To learn as much as you could about photography and as much as you could about travel. And you've gone to the nth degree with those. 

You kept over the 50s and 60s and 70s documenting, but you're interested in fine art, so you look at photography as an expression of feeling in art. 

Well, when I entered, I just wanted to study photography. I learned after I got to Georgia State, it was an art school, that was my first experience with art. Like I told you, I always thought I couldn't draw. You didn't know you were an art photographer. 

But really you found out that your eye was towards recording things that had expression and feeling to them as opposed to just being documentation of a place or a time or something happening. 

When did you realize that you were really good? 

Was that a gradual thing or did somebody start telling you things? 

I learned in class under John McWilliams. 

So it wasn't until you went to school? 

Yeah, in school. When I learned, you said when I was good? 

Yeah. 

When did you know you were good? 

When I was at Georgia State doing Silver Prince under John McWilliams. You come in with a print and you think, well boy, this is perfect. 

He would make you do it all the way, sometimes a dozen times, did you have to do that? 

So when you got A's you knew you were good? 

That's right. You do it over, you do it over and over. 

And finally when I got into palladium and platinum, I went to class, the first one he looked at it, that's all right. And after that a lot of students started coming up to me wanting to swap prints. That's when I started to specialize with palladium and platinum printing. Because you did it well. 

And that was what year? 

In the 1980s or 90s? 

You got your degree in 1999 and it was probably in the early 90s. Yeah, probably. 

That means that from the 40s until the 90s you were taking all these pictures and you didn't know how good you were. That's right. Those were not good pictures. That's a lifetime. Those were not really good pictures back then. Yeah, but they were in your show. Yeah. They were in your show so they must have been pretty good. Right. Maybe not as good as you are now, but they had to be pretty good. 

Going to school, how did you get the idea, first of all, to go back to school? 

What ever gave you that idea? 

Well, I went to trying to get an Ansel Adams workshop. 

Well, I read some of them at a workshop in Putnam, Vermont. And I applied for that, and I had no formal training in photography. Fred Pickard was running the thing, and he wrote me back some curt letter that made me mad. I had already sent him a check for several hundred dollars. And I wrote him and asked him to return the check. And he says in the letter, he says, we've had people up here that couldn't roll film into the camera. You come on up anyways. 

So I went on up to that workshop. I had a chip on my shoulder because I didn't like Fred Pickett, but he had some good assistants. And I learned through one of them that he had applied for Ancel Adams workshop. I never heard of Ancel Adams before. Really? 

No, I didn't know who he was. 

So I said, well, how about give me his address? 

I was trying to learn photography. He said, you have to belong to the Friends of Photography and you get in through that. He founded the Friends of Photography. 

So I applied for instance to one of the workshops of the Friends of Photography and got in. And he didn't do much teaching then because he was old. 

But this wasn't his own personal, this was a friend of the photographer, but he helped organize that. 

So we're talking about Ansel Adams? 

Right. 

So you actually met him then? 

I was in his home a couple of times. 

And so through that, after going to eight workshops with a friend of photography, I I was finally accepted to the Ansel Adams workshop just a short time before he died. I went there in July of 1983 and he died in August. Oh, right before he died. Wow. 

So through that. Did you learn anything? 

Oh, lots. Lots. I met a lot of prominent photographers too. Because everybody was clamoring to him at that time. 

Well, instructors. He had fine instructors. Yeah. I would think nothing but the best because he is one of the finest photographers. Today everybody knows his things. Right. 

So you started really taking it serious and looking for more classes all the time. And then eventually you came back. 

When I got through with that I came home and I picked up the papers and it was all about Georgia State teaching photography. I have a cousin that's pictures out there on the wall that is retired from Georgia State. 

So I called Clarence. I said, Clarence, I didn't know they'd talk photography. She said, yeah, they've got a good school. You want to go? 

I said, yeah. She says, I'll make an appointment with you for Mr. Walker, the director of the school and she did. 

And so I went and filled the appointment and he explained to me what I had to do and was very helpful. He got me in missions and I was in it. He helped me to enter. 

So I entered Georgia State. How old were you? 

I don't know. In your late eighties probably. In my eighties. Yeah. 

And so how were you accepted at school? 

What was that like to go back to school? 

Well, there's a lot of difference to when I first went. I found out one thing you have to wake harder than you. It didn't get any easier. That's right. Did the other kids accept you well? 

They accepted me well. I made friends with a lot of them. 

That's another reason I like to keep going, because meet them in the hall and call me by my first name, that's a big thrill. It sure is. 

So it's been a real source of social life for you to go back to school, and you go every semester, you go back and take the course. 

Well, I'm not there this semester because I couldn't get the course I wanted. Yeah, they're not teaching the right thing this summer, but ordinarily. Ordinarily, yes. 

But you got your degree in 1999, and you said you learned you could draw, you could oil paint, all things you didn't think you could do, you found out you could do. 

But still, photography remains your favorite thing. Do you sell your work? 

I have sold three photographs. That's all. That makes you a professional. 

If you sell one, you're a professional. It makes you a professional. You're great. Take a break there. As you said very clearly, if you sell one painting, you're a professional. and you've already sold three. Not painting, but pictures. 

So how does this come about that you had shows? 

Do you remember when you had your first show? 

Well, John McWilliams was responsible for the first show, which was at Kellenwall on Brycliffe Road, not too far from here. Sure, I know exactly where it is. 

But before I graduated, he said, well, you ought to get a show in at some gallery. I suggest you try Kellen Wall. And he gave me the name of the lady to see there. her. 

So I wrote her a letter and asked her slides of some of my work. She telephoned me and asked if I would bring some of the actual prints. 

So I took the prints and showed them to her and she had several people looking at them and she got through, I thought maybe you know she'd just show a few of them in the gallery, she said we'll give you the whole gallery if you can bring about 30 prints. 

So I took 30 prints and had my first show there which was a big success because many of the students and faculty of Georgia State came. 

The second show I had, John told me I ought to get a show out of town, and I didn't know how to do it, but I got to thinking, Mr., the former president of Reinhardt Kelley's, now dead, was a really good friend of mine. 

Before he died, and while he was still president, he planted approximately a thousand trees on the campus at Reinhardt College. 

And after After he retired, he was recording all of them in the library of the school, and I went up there with him several times while he was doing that, and I fell in love with the school. It's a wonderful experience. It is. 

So as John suggested trying to get a showing out of town, I wrote to Galra there and told told them I was a good friend of the former president and I'd like to have a show in. They didn't reply to my letter. I told one of the professors about it. She said, well, that's typical. 

So a year later, I got notice that there was to be a show at Reinhardt College. by some photography organization, Woodstock, Georgia. I can't think of the name of it. 

So I wrote them. You had to be a member of that. I wrote them for an application and join and then applied to enter two prints up there. That's all they would take. They accepted two prints which were on display for about a couple of weeks. I didn't win a prize, but I got honorable mention on two. Then I had a showing that an organization operated by the, it's a handicap organization. 

I can't remember the name of it, but they've had donations from I think Ford Motor Company, company, one or two other large companies. 

So I had about 25 or 30 prints there and that's where I sold the three that I sold. There was another, I had two more prints shown at Ryan Hart and that at Ryan Hart Kennesaw. And I got honorable mention on those. 

So those Those are the only shows that I've had. 

How did the naming of the school at Georgia State come about? 

What year was that? 

When did that happen? 

Well, it just happened recently. 

So it's this year? 

Yeah. 2003. Tell us the story about that. 

How did that happen? 

Did they approach you and say, we've decided to name the school after you? 

John McWilliams called me one day. He was the director of the art school and said, how about coming down town and having lunch with us. I want to talk to you and I want you to meet some important people. 

So at lunch that day he had Pam, I can't pronounce her last name, who's an associate dean and another lady from the development department. 

So at lunch that day, John said, what happened was my brother died and left his estate to my two sisters. He left it in trust with the Bank of America. Before they could settle the estate, my older sister died. 

So she left her estate to Francis with me as the trust officer. 

I was sitting in the lawyer's office with the Vice President of the Bank of America when we were winding up all this business and he says, Ernest, if anything happens to you there's nothing to pay Francis bills. I suggest you put your estate in trust, too. 

So I said, all right, I think that's a good idea, because I was getting old then, and I was having a lot of trouble getting municipal bonds, which I was buying most of the time, then. 

So I put my estate in trust. 

Now, after the bank took over all of our assets, Mr. 

White says, you've got too much Coca-Cola stock and your sister's got too much Ford Motor Company stock. In order to keep them diversified, we're going to sell some of them. 

So I said, all right. 

So he went ahead and sold some of the stock and invested in other things. 

And then he called me and he says, you have to pay a $150,000 tax or if you want to give it away, you give it away. I said, let's give it to Georgia State University. Oh, that was so generous of you. 

So I called John and told him that. And so then after that, sometime after that, he called me and invited me to lunch. And he says, the really one I have had you to lunch is, you've done so much for the school. You're the first, I think he said, to do that. You probably are in the arts. And he says, we've set this up for scholarships for the young people. And they're very appreciative. We appreciate it, so we're going to name the School of Art and Design after you." I said, wonderful. And this lady that he invited was from the Development Department. And she said, well, you're going to have to meet a few requirements. I said, I think I've already met them. 

I'd already put, in addition to that, I'd already put our wills for a large amount to go to Georgia State and some to Georgia Tech. I had said, don't tell anybody this. Everybody's going, no now. I was an executive and my sister's very religious and we've belonged to a church since 1921. 

And her best friends were in that church, so she wanted $150,000 to go to the church, which was all right. 

So I gave them $50,000. A lawyer then was in charge of the finances of the church, I didn't know him. I wrote him a letter and told him that it was for the building fund, all except $5,000. I wanted $5,000 to go to this class at the center school class. 

Now the president of the center school class came to see Frances Olfen. She was here one Sunday afternoon and she said, we never did get that money. She said, I was at a dinner on Wednesday night, and I sat at the table with Mr. Hill Hall. She said, I didn't know him, but he turned to me and said, we've got the money that Mr. Welch said is for your class, but we're holding it for you. You can use it any time you want to. She said, that's not what he intended. I told him to take it and invest it so they'd always have some money. 

So he made me mad. 

On Sunday afternoon I went in there and I wrote him a letter and I told him to transfer immediately that $500 to class. He did and he wrote me a lawyer's letter, two page long, but he transferred the letter, the money. 

Well, good. You got your ***. Yeah. 

Yeah, so after that, when John invited me to lunch, this lady from the development department said there were a few requirements, I said I already made them, which I had. I changed her will, taken the church out, that's what I said shouldn't be known. All that was going to Georgia State and Georgia Tech. it. 

So I didn't hear from the development department, I didn't hear from them three months once more. In the meantime, I had mailed the copies of the wills. 

So I complained to Pam I know real well, the associate dean, and she called me right away, wanted to come by. She came by here. 

So a few days after that they called me again, wanted me to meet in the dean's office. And she had a long document wanting $150,000 this year, $150,000 next year. Then they were named a school after me. I said, that's not what I understood. I said, in the first place, our money is in trust. The Bank of America is not going to agree to know that because it's taken it out of the principal. I explained to her where the came from. Ended that and I was mad. 

I didn't have, I knew he was president of the alumni association but I didn't know his telephone number. 

So I wrote him a letter and made an appointment and went down and talked to him, gave him a copy of what they wanted me to sign. He says, I'm going to work on this immediately. 

In about two weeks he called me and says, it has been approved by the president of Georgia State to name the school after you. I said, wonderful. 

He says, how about coming down and meeting another lady from the development department has been very helpful to me and we all had lunch together. 

This new lady from the development department, President of the Alumni Association, the dean, the associate dean, and Ralph Gillis, who's my director. And so that's how the school got named after me. 

Well, it's quite a story. And the dedication just took place. 

The dedication that tried to have it on my birthday, May the 3rd, but it happened that it was on Saturday, so it was the following Tuesday before they had it. That's pretty close. That's pretty close. And it's wonderful that you actually got to be here. I was 97 on that birthday. Just an amazing story, an inspiration to everybody. It's never too late to get started. Your hobby, as you pointed out to me, is your hobby. You're very definite about that. 

But you had another hobby that took up a lot of your time, and that was travel. You told me that when you retired, you made up your mind you were going to see the world. 

But unlike other people who just do one country at a time, you did the whole world. Tell me how you came to that decision. 

Well, I'd been abroad several times before that. 

But in France, I lived in a French home for her. 

I didn't study French in school, but I learned to speak French well enough to ride the subway and ask directions, that kind of thing. 

So I got an interest from that, and that's one of the things I've been studying down in Georgia State. You want to take it to French? 

Yeah, yeah. Oh, my goodness. 

So I can speak it much better now than during the war. And I've got a friend in Luxembourg who teaches art. He was born just about the time I left Luxembourg. His dad and I were friends. His dad's an architect and through that John's now 50 some years old. 

But his dad's younger than I am, I think he's 92 years old, but he doesn't get around as well as that. 

So I'm working mostly through John and his son. 

So I sent him an invitation to this, but he always, it thrills him to death because he teaches art. Yeah, I'm sure it does. Tell me about your around the world trip. That was in 1971? 

Uh-huh. 

Did you really go around the world? 

Well, really I did more than that, I visited several continents. I went to Europe first because that was what I was most familiar with. 

I went to some countries in Europe and I always went to France first, then to Luxembourg, and I went to Spain and some places I hadn't been before, London. And then I went to Africa where I hadn't been before and that was a real thrill. I can't name, well I went to, I need a map. Yeah. You pretty much covered the whole part of the beach. 

Well the Congo was one of the most exciting, I'll tell you about that. 

But I stayed in a brand new hotel there, which is a good thing because some of those hotels in Africa are not so hot, but there's a nice little chain, I can't remember the name of it, but it was a good hotel. And Kinshasa is a big city too. And it was up on the hill, all the images up there, and it looked right down on the Congo River. 

But I got ready to leave there. 

They had an airline struck, and I found out also I was supposed to go from there to Angola I think it was. I didn't have a visa. American Express worked all this out for me independently, but they forgot to get a visa. 

So I went to a Belgian travel agency and there wasn't a council laying down. 

But he said, come back tomorrow. And I went back the next day and he had a piece of ice. He got it? 

I don't know. 

But still the airline was on strike. 

He said, the only way you can get out of here is to take a bus and go to Matadi, which is a port on the Congo River, and there charter a plane and fly it to where you want to go. 

So I took this bus ride about 100 miles. There was one white Belgian couple on the bus, and all the rest of them were black. I had a lot of photography equipment, so I took up a whole seat. The woman in front of me had three children, which she just let urinate on the floor. Finally, we got to a bus stop. They had to get gas and they wanted to take a break too. I wouldn't get off the bus because when I got on, everybody fights for a seat, you know. I had a guy that got in and held a seat for me and I was scared I'd lose it. 

So I stayed on the bus while they went and got gasoline. 

Then we went on and finally arrived in Matali and I was expecting to pull into a bus station you know. And finally we pulled up the street cone and the driver said this is where you get on. In the middle of nowhere. In the middle of nowhere. 

There I was with this heavy camera equipment and two bags, so I got off, and I stood on the curb there. You step over, the streets were not paved, it was just about that thick. I asked somebody passing where the hotel was, and he says, two blocks there in the street. 

So I decided, well, there's nothing but one way for me to get there, just pick up this heavy luggage and go. 

But by that time a man came that was supposed to meet me and he picked up the luggage and waded through the dust for me following him down to the hotel. 

So I checked into the hotel and they gave me the best accommodations they had, which was just sweet. 

But I wrote home, I told you for sure to picture my grandfather out there from Alabama. I told her, I said, I'm in a street here that reminds me of Wadley, Alabama. 

It had one light bulb, one hanging down, that was all the lights she had and I was writing her under that light. 

So I stayed there and that night, before dinner, I walked into the bar and I sat down in all black so I was on the white. That turned out to be a blessing. I was there no time until all of them wanted to know me. I was speaking my French there too. Were you? 

Yeah. 

They didn't know English, and so after getting acquainted with those, I went on to dinner at 8 and went on upstairs and went to bed, and the next morning this guy was supposed to pick me up at 7 o'clock I think it was, and drive me to the border and across to take the plane. 

So I was down at the desk waiting for the guy and he didn't come. He didn't come. At 8 o'clock he hadn't come. And I was real nervous because I was going to get this plane. 

About that time one of these men that I met the night before the ball walked in and I told him what had happened. He said, I know where he lives. I'll go get him. 

So So he went and got him, he had overslept. 

So he came and drove me to the border and again I had a, I was nervous. We got to the border and the guy that looked after your papers wasn't there. I had to wait a long time, finally I got my papers stamped and went on to where I was supposed to. That was my plane and when I got on it, I didn't know it, but the plane was surrounded by soldiers. They had been shooting across the border there. Oh no. You were in a war. Oh no. 

So I finally got to my destination, but that was a memorable trip. A memorable trip. 

But it didn't cure you from traveling. No. You kept on. Other continents, other stories. Have you been in every continent? 

Well, I went from there to Japan and that was a real pleasure. In Tokyo I stayed in a real good hotel, a five star hotel. And I had a friend there that I hadn't met. 

I had an aunt living out in Marietta that had a sister as a school teacher and she spent one summer in the home. 

So I met this lady. She came up and had tea with me. 

She became a widow when she was in her twenties and she had two grown daughters and her husband owned an advertising agency which she took over when she was in her twenties and she knew nothing about it but she had been very successful with it. She had been in this country several times with that agency. 

So then in Kyoto, my company owned the manufacturing plant, and they knew that I was coming and when I called them after getting checked in the hotel, a chauffeur arrived in a limousine. 

I didn't know this, but he was wearing white gloves which impressed me, but I learned later all the Japanese chauffeurs knew, but that car was at my disposal and the people that were making the plant just couldn't do enough for me. 

So that was a good story. All together that trip you were gone for six months. Right. It's a long time to be away from home, isn't it? 

It is. Did you take a lot of pictures? 

I made a lot of pictures. 

So you have all your memories all stored up into them. 

So between the hobby of photography and the hobby of traveling, you still find time for the hobby of going to school, which is your hobby to collect more. I do some gardening too. You do some gardening. Your yard is lovely. 

Well, my sister really is a gardener. 

She planted practically every inch of this place and I used to help her some and I kept the yard up until three years ago. 

So I had a ride on my wall, somebody stole it, and I was in my 90s then, so I was out of time to get somebody else to do it. Retire from yard work. What do you attribute your good health to? 

My mother. Was she long-lived? 

She lived to be 103. Oh, my word. 

So you got her genes then. Uh-oh. Yeah. 

Well, I'd say you're tracking pretty good, wouldn't you? 

Because you feel well. Yes. You do lots of things. You just don't let anything slow you down, do you? 

Right. Not if you can help it? 

No. 

Well, you've had a very, very rich life. You've packed it. 

Well, I think so, too. You've packed it full of stuff, which is wonderful. 

Kind of makes you feel sorry for the people who don't make that effort, doesn't it? 

Well, some people, when they retire, sit down and do nothing, and they usually die early, too. That's where you keel over, yeah. The secret of your success is to stay busy. right keep your mind going yeah that's what i've heard over and over again keep your mind going so well we've enjoyed so much hearing your story i'm looking forward to seeing some of your work now so we're going to stop here and then we're going to go take pictures all right pictures okay pictures of your diploma okay so thank you so much for thank you it's been a pleasure sir.