This is a living history interview with how Miller class of 1954 conducted by Maryland's summers on April the 24th of the year 2006. 

We're at his home and kings port, Tennessee and the subject of the interview today, his life in general, his experiences at Georgia Tech. Mr. Miller, It is a pleasure to be here with you today. 

Thank you so much for taking time out of your outdoor life and laughing about how much time you spend outdoors to let us come visit you today. We're so delighted to be here to hear your story. We have to begin with, you were actually born here in king's court. You are a native. Tell me when you were born On February the fourth, 1930. And what was your daddy doing here and kings board at that time, he was home place for him. This is his home place and my mother's own place. Far back to the miller roots go here, gosh, in a way back to 18 hundreds. 

So that means that their parents were born here to your right? 

Yes, That's correct. Wow, you really know, go argue that that's amazing. 

So they came and they just stayed, right. 

What did your daddy do for a living? 

He was two or three different things, primarily in real estate and appraisal, and that he enjoyed real estate very much. 

Now you were just after the world. I mean, we went into the depression the fall before the winter you were born. 

So was your dad able to stay in real estate when they get pressure, they might so he worked at a bank and with a billing supply company. 

So but he's still like the real estate business very much. 

So he managed to keep you all together through the depression? 

That's correct. 

Did your mother work or was she a home she was a homemaker up until about 1950 and she worked in retail stores. 

But for your coming up time, you had a mama you had a mama who was home to raise you. 

Did you have brothers and sisters? 

I had two brothers, older or younger, one old and one young child. They're both deceased at this time. 

You're the last or the Miller boys and actually that's what you were referred to as the Miller boys, right? 

Correct. Yeah. You you knew everybody when you grew up then you must have known it just everybody in the community. We're grandparents still living when you were a child? 

Yes, they were. 

Mother's parents were farm people, work in a rural areas and my grandfather, Miller, that there was a general practitioner, medical doctor. He was one of the hoop on your doctors when they were probably six or eight doctors in this area. Oh, for goodness sakes. He made house calls, did? 

That's correct. I can remember when he passed away, the one gentleman was a palmar at his funeral. First baby, he delivered this area and that tomb and was 65 years of age. Oh, for goodness sake. 

So your granddaddy had been delivered babies for 65 years? 

Yes, that's correct. No one even knows how many babies probably he delivered. Everybody who got bored. And when he died was home. 

He had been to the drugstore that they used to go to the drugstore to get medicine while I sat in on them, analyzed his home was a prescription he had gotten for elderly lady and he was starting to take it he was going to take it to her. Oh, for heaven's sakes. 

Well, he had a life we call well-lived time. Yes, he did. He served the whole community for a long time. That's so interesting. I wonder where he went to medical school at the time that on Hopkins. Hopkins. And then his family had been from this area. 

So we came back here and practice. That's a rich history to have as an address. And then your daddy came along and that was the second generation. He had one brother, had one on my father's side. 

So there were plenty of people around here who knew you grow. And my mother came from a large family man, and they live within a five-mile radius. 

So this area oh, my God. We know a lot of people. 

So you knew about family being around you. 

Usually when you talk to somebody who comes from a small town, whether they were related to you, whether they were kin or not, everybody looked after you more or less or minded your business? 

Oh, yeah. 

Did you grow up in town? 

Town until about the time we started to school and leave, moved to having a more rural area. And so then you had to put my grandfather live the doctor when you're on somebody's property. 

So then you had to be commuted into school, right? 

They paid for high school. Let's go back to grade school. 

Grades go and went to the county grade school in their county, which wasn't within walking distance less than a mile. In those days, no one gave thought to what you walked? 

Walked, right. That was through the eighth grade. Okay. 

So your brother had started school before you, so when it was time for you to go into the kindergarten or first grade, how? 

His grave he just took you along with him because he is gone anyways, right. How did you take to school? 

Did you like going to school? 

Oh, okay. I realized later years I should have studied mathematics in Georgia Tech. To pay better attention. I ever went to that but only a known what it was going. Like everyone. I didn't know for sure what I wanted to. 

So here in King's port, the process was eight years of elementary school and then you didn't have a middle school, you went right into high school then? 

In the county? 

They did. In the city that it had been a junior high school. Oh, so you did you did you? 

I did not go No. I went straight to the high school. Okay. That's quite an adjustment. I can still remember those days. County High School. Which county? 

The Southern California County High School. 

Is that whereas? 

Sullivan county elementary school and I went to the city, that determines the high school. Davin spin it. Dobbins minute. Okay. When did you start playing sports? 

In high school? 

Pretty much when I was in grade school. Had no real organized sports. 

They had basketball maybe, but that was just a dirt court and it didn't have any of the floored him wasn't organized. Are not organized. 

No legs are going into high school was going to be your first time with organized for us? 

That's correct. 

Did they offer just football or all through high school? 

They had everything that was available at the time. Football, basketball, baseball, track, track. That was the four major things. And have those four major things, what did you participate in? 

I went out for football. It's interesting. When I first went out, I didn't know anything. I said I'm not going to do this. I quit. I didn't like to quit, but I had other things to do. And so then I went back out in the next spring when has suggested the things. Okay. 

So for your first attempt, it wasn't all that great, right. Thing to do. 

And what else did you have to do? 

Because I've had little farm chores and tours at home, which is a good point. 

I'd want to bring up your family believed in you having responsibilities, right? 

So you had farm tours to do milking cows, pigs, chickens, and real firebrand, real farm tours, very, very responsible things to do. 

So besides going to school, you were you were a hand we're helping hand on the properties and always enjoyed Dan. Did your folks believe in you taken little jobs to earn money, extra money, I mean, like sure. 

If you can find any town summer. 

Did you ever find anything? 

Not really as a more general form or equipment community? 

Mostly which I didn't work at the post office during the Christmas breaks and this type of thing. A lot of they used to do that. 

I just I didn't people work at grocery stores and beggars and write a paper route? 

I just had things to do. Home hinder, stay busy, pretty busy. You're a big guy. 

So what happened when you went out for football was second time, did they have a good coach? 

Who was the coach? 

Hey, we haven't had a good coach available. Name of it. Shocky who just last year I think, of Virginia. 

So he was really good. 

He was he was there for three years and the fellow that Bowers was that coat from the hair and he's deceased. 

I could just imagine them laying eyes on the sides of you with your big all-hands and everything saying This guy has gotten this material to work with, had a lot to learn, but it just doesn't work. 

You didn't even know what football was did you hardly had learned that game? 

Because I had not been a spectator, but maybe one or two games. 

I didn't know this when you live in a country, but was football a big deal here and kings board? 

Yes, it was himself. Yes. It's always been drinking sport from back in the early days when they first started. They play scratch Friday nights. 

I didn't like the only entertainment they're swapped out, so had good crowds and I was very fortunate in high school. 

And four years, the Plato had won one game with lost in 19 forty six, forty five, forty six, forty seven, forty eight were undefeated, those other things. 

So you were learning pretty good. What I'm working on it had a lot of good teammates. 

Now, we're talking about here in the 40s, we're talking about World War Two times? 

Correct. 

So you came out of elementary school to go into high school at a time when the world isn't going on. 

Do you remember anything about the war? 

Did it affect you in any way? 

Much because getting close, they see I'm just 15 and 45s were already beginning to think about Colonna fellows guys were going in at age 16 or 17, your brother was just older than you? 

Yes. 

But he didn't have to go. 

Did people from the town that you knew go though? 

What about like vibrations and all those kinds of things? 

Did that affect kings port at all? 

Being gas rationing real good about that? 

Sure. Yeah. 

So it was the kind of war that everybody it was a different kind of war than the wars we have today. When everybody was ready to step up to the plate. 

But there was a draft and you couldn't get out of it if you had to register for the draft at age 18. 

But while you were busy going to high school, but there was always that hanging over your head. Write you a lot of people and I remember coming back. Yeah. 

Because by the time you were in the upper grades, they were starting to come down on the enormity of it when you have seen people, you know, come back after having been in war. 

It's a lot different than reading about it, isn't it? 

You see it on their faces and know what they are. Did you get to like the game of football? 

Yes, I did. As time went on, kind of like a war. It's like battle strategies and such. 

So you are fortunate enough to have good coaches that really sure why aren't you? 

Yeah, very good. Spiraling in. Now. We had one fellow was a former tech named Bill Jordan. 

He was from the state of Alabama, but he was here the insurance business and he coax them on their side. Then you didn't have to teach. Maybe all the time, you get some way to get around that. Very, very good. Very good for you. 

Did you ever say tell you to talk to you about Bobby data at that time that he had come he'd lived here in King's well, when you knew he came, got his name was here and he had been at the University of Tennessee, I think 1930s was the first year he went to Georgia Tech and he'd played here in the principle and was here in high school. We used to refer to them frequently. 

So the name which is part of your growing up? 

Sure. And his brother worked here with what was the king sport press, a bookmaking for him. He was comfortable with and used to see him weekly someplace and passing along the way. Did you ever think at that time that someday you are going to go play for him? 

No. Crashed your mind? 

Never thought about it. 

Even if I didn't know if I'd go to college and I always kinda had mine, maybe back in my head, I may go to University of Tennessee and study agriculture if indeed you were gonna go, but it wasn't a big deal for you? 

No. Okay. 

What changed all that? 

How did you end up going to Georgia Tech, I guess? 

Playing ball and getting recruiters came in. There was a fellow named coach **** Jones that was at Georgia Tech at the time. He was, he made a lot of visits into a friend, Bill Jordan, and he was going around locator. And then Mr. Jordan who was coating here and a friend of real estate. 

And another fellow from here is John Robert Bell, who coast it takes him, he went from here to take in the forties before the war. 

And he coached in here, he coasting in high school in Georgia and cedar town, America since some of these places and he was up here and he took us down there. I say it took us. There are two fellows that, Jack Patterson and Darrell Crawford. What a year before us, I've heard of. He's in Atlanta now. Jake is deceased. 

But then the next day when they say they took you down, that you mean they took you drove me down to look at those two goo right side of the school. 

And was the idea behind that, that they could talk you into going to school? 

If coincidentally, they took five of us of a team in 1948. 

And it was myself and Harry Right now, our aspirin see some headaches and until it Tom, Trent and for other state in some way. What did your parents think about you going off to college? 

How did they find? 

Well, okay. 

But they had a new coach Dodd from back just a little and, you know, his history, he was older then goes down but that was okay. That you're gonna go you're gonna go on a scholarship? 

Correct. 

So it was not going to cause them into money. Talks to me. Did they have a hard time talking into it, Mr. Miller? 

Not really. No. County made up her mind feeling you still didn't really realize what you were stepping. You didn't know you were gonna go meant to go to school? 

I couldn't go to school. 

That was one of Bobby dad's famous things as statements was Gentlemen, you're here to go to school, will play football for from you first met up with him when you accepted that scholarship in 1948, right? 

The war was over and the World lot of veterans come into storage tab because of the GI Bill. They can all come in or you are just a young old kid. And here were these gnarly old veterans coming in. Do you remember some of them. What it would like to go? 

Oh, yes, Yeah. 

It was they were a faster game and they were ahead of us and so this had to work at it and stay with it. They were there to get their education and not to mess around. I can try it. I understand that they really worked very hard academically to get their degree. They did the only party on Saturday nights. A lot harder than most would think. 

But they expected everybody to keep up with them on the academic mine. How prepared you for academics? 

Fairly good. We have a good high school here at Dulles minute, and it was the Air Force. If if we just grasp it and do what we're supposed to do. 

But then like I said earlier, mathematics was the thing that I should have really focus down. Right? 

Where did you get the kind of help you needed? 

Here's hospital. Oh, I take oh, yes. You are over your head and math. You've got remedial help with you've heard I'm sure of Dr. D. M. Smith. 

Oh, I had did you ever actually have him didn't have him talk with him and he spent a couple of hours with me a couple of times. He was a counselor trying to like, couldn't be taught mathematics or so. He'd always make some statement. I tell DOD he could get his **** dumb guy. Just his term instead of making the work so hard. 

But he, he, he did some that there was a fellow which I didn't go to him as a tutor. He was a professional reynolds. They don't let the robot her nickname, everyone called him rat. And he had a good counselor in a tutor name of maintaining a calling man and he played ball there. Mud. Mud, MUD maybe. Oh, no. 

When you got to tech, you went into a dorm at that time, did you go into the Cloudman dorm? 

Dorm because I think when you came in it was still had those little maybe bunk beds and that type thing. It didn't have a good big mattresses of the head, those wire bunk beds with them. 

But it was the whole group was there. 

I think that brought us closer together and they had a good, real good relationship, having looked out after everybody else was together. 

One of the interesting things about that time for all of you, when you think about all of those men folk jammed into one building like that, I'm told there was only one telephone, a payphone downside. You've been you've heard that I heard this story about the time I got oh my goodness. Today everybody laughs because everybody has their cell phone in their pocket. They have a phone booth at the entrance. Someone get a phone call. The three floors up. 

What was your first roommate? 

Who did you room with? 

A fellow from here that I went with that and they say so Maddox, was it the first time you are away from home for any length of time? 

That's correct. 

It was it was not only a journey into a big city, but it was big time then it'd be a way it wasn't like going to camp or stop and this was big time. Atlanta, missouri. Good big town. Then we'd walk walk to town. You know, we'd walk up to the apartments. 

The tech would apartment complex or town or wherever you go, the one to many cars around over there, right? 

When you think about that, let's just talk about the first year. You did you come for summer? 

No. 

You didn't come until the fall? 

Actually, when I'm finished here in December at high school, I was I came to Atlanta and to take in January. You started midterm. The midterm. That's why I took some remedial courses to catch up. To catch up. Yeah. What was your first impression? 

I mean, big, yes. Bigger than school but bigger than what you were using? 

A good one. Did you encounter Bobby Dodd at that time or was he too far over? 

Say in in passing and closer. 

So in a spring practice, we'll just playing football practice, at least. He came onto the Hindu, you were from King sport, your daddy. 

So he'd have a kind word or two about that, no doubt. Talk with you in case you were in school at a time that just had amazing men folk for row mass. You hit george Griffin around, correct? 

Dean of Students. Everybody loved George. 

Did you ever have an encounter with George for any reasonable time? 

Nothing, nothing bad there, just to help you along. Dna J was another very kindly old friend, Ajax, Freddie Lynn new. Did you have to take drown proofing? 

I didn't take that. Did not take it. The athletes were exempted from that. Yeah. Yeah. 

But you heard about he didn't like Oh, yeah. I saw watch some of it. And yeah, he would've liked to have gotten us all into it. Oh, yes. He wanted to dance on you. There's no doubt about it. Yeah. Your dad used to argue left and right. 

So dad would send your notes about, you know, one thing or another. George was even apt to do that, would send him notes and say you pass. 

So and so I didn't want to let go of him. They didn't know what he wanted them to know. Yeah. He thought it was terrible ways that you all didn't get that training. Right. 

But then good, some bad. I know a couple of guys took it. They volunteered, but they did was not compulsory. 

Did you have to wear a red hat the first year or did Oh, you did people, some people steal kidney about when methane. 

The first year, even the athlete's head to where everyone in our city had to wear little red patch tool. To Chris, I guess the first quarter. Yeah. 

Well, the freshman team was extraordinary, wasn't it? 

According to George Morris, you were all extraordinary their first year. I wouldn't launch record wasn't always good. 

But the potential is there, correct? 

Yeah. And I think all the coaches were drooling over what they were going to do it. 

Well, isn't that about the time that coach dad went out and hired himself some real good Other questions, right? 

Because in 1949, I guess I was a freshman. Freshman weren't eligible to participate in varsity sports. And your Big deal with 501950? 

We were a group of sophomores and we had a bad season. And the one lot record in 1950. And it wasn't all that good, but we did the LSU and Georgia. That was good. Good. 

Your job in the freshman when you were in the freshman team was to beat Georgia for the Thanksgiving game, right, so that you can get the red hats off for the rest. We try to know georgia be this. 

They had to wear the red heads first of the year supposed to become the spring practice of 1951, right? 

We practice eight or ten weeks. I think there are no limit element like today. 

And we really worked on us and coach gray, regular age was primarily working with what position where you paying? 

Playing tackle the whole the time? 

Yeah. 

And you played both sides? 

You had you had Toronto Coleman around, you had Frank Boyle's, you had coast. 

After that he hired those people because he realized he had himself winning bunch of guys, right? 

That's correct. Did you know that you were did you realize that you were a special group? 

No, not really. I didn't I didn't feel like I just knew were just having fun with a good group of guys and working. We had a good relationship. By this time you had kind of gotten along okay. In school, you are getting okay. Great. Okay. Yeah. Nothing exceptional, but I was getting by. And you were you were well-fed, as I understand it, you were eating with Ms. Twigs? 

That's right. Yeah. Athletes table under the stadium. They are running right across from Cleveland. Dawn had just crossed the street, across the street and go in and eat good, real good. I've been to define lady. I've been told that she said a fine spread. Keep everybody in line. 

She said she's going to be some meat on some of these people who assist tyrosine getting knocked around so much because there weren't a lot of real big football players were not Oh, I was probably as big as any one. After 25 to 30. 

That's there was huge for that time, was because when I think of the ones I interviewed, pepper Rogers and Jacob moved up there Guys evenly and Haldeman wasn't very big. No. No. You were really more so than Norway. 

But he's very strong, but he was scrawny. You and George were bought the biggest guys out there. George had big hands like you've got big hands. And you just having a good time. 

Far as you're concerned, you were playing and having a good time, played the way in and have a good time. School really came as you were winning, as the 51 team was winning, winning, winning. The school really got all invigorated and all full of you guys were hot to go. Law school spirit came out, everybody was happy to be a Ramblin Wreck. 

Did you ever stop and think, what on earth am I doing that? 

Because you have some of those people plotted for that to happen and it just kinda happened to you didn't It was just developed portion came along at a good time. 

What happened down the off-season when you weren't playing football, were you still enjoying it? 

Atlanta and Georgia Tech? 

Sure. That everything was going this way. All right, nice, relaxing and very enjoyable. The precedent was Blake fan layer. That that's correct. And Colonel Van layer and you got I mean, another good role model for you. Took a big interest in Mr. Carmichael was the restaurant. 

All those people things we're real close because I guess the student population was what? 

Six thousand, five hundred, six thousand? 

Yeah. It had only been about three and then the rank swelled as the veteran started coming back. By the end of the 40's there, we're seeing a place to put it. Yeah, we got there but most of them they were leaving their own. Did you join a fraternity? 

Know I pledged in paternity, but that's all. That that wasn't for me. I wasn't financially, socially and hold it just wasn't going to go year-old me go, correct? 

Yeah. I did not appreciate it, but we're good. I used to visit some of the fraternities, but well, for pirates. 

Did you, did you enjoy your social life? 

I mean, did you go to dances? 

So when you have money that date and that type thing, there's any transportation because tuition was being paid for and books are being paid for it anymore. Handing you on spending money? 

No. I think it was in they were alive. They give us $15 a month. All honesty. 

We didn't have the training table to eat on Sunday evening and they had a competence that you still wouldn't go without eating? 

As if maybe $15 ago. Good way. He's at that time. Most of the time eight there, you could do your laundry, you could go up to the varsity juniors. 

There were a few places around where you picked up in the yellow jacket over on the other, if you ever heard at the end of the j Omega L them the other side. What was that in highway 41 at the intersection. Was that over my Coca-Cola? 

Yes. Across from where? 

The yellow jacket. I've seen pictures of that. Yeah. Yeah. Right across from Mechanical Engineering Building was across the street from it. 

I know what used to take a weld and we took a welding class and some of the guys would slip over to yellow jacket to get a refreshment. As I'm thinking correctly, we call that the tech Parkway. Of Lucky street really? 

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's right corner and it was on the far side of it. 

And then on this side of it, on the very corner there was aeronautical engineering, the Guggenheim buildings on the corner right next to it, homebuilding. Yeah. 

Now we call the evidence. Yeah. I guess you could just I don't know. I don't know why it's there. I haven't seen buildings. Those buildings have not gone. They couldn't building is there an aeronautical Guggenheim is there. 

But yeah, it was pretty close, pretty tempting. 

Did you take public transportation, jumped on the streetcar to go anywhere or not much occasion if we wanted to go. 

But mostly you either walk where you are going. 

Are you stayed home? 

Right? 

Did you have any professors that you felt were particularly interested in helping you get through besides DM Smith, anybody? 

The most of them were timely towards that, right? 

Like people like the physics professor, Mr. both tails. 

So what do you want to tell here? 

Coach tennis. He was a tennis coach, I guess, yes, he was born. He does. They're interesting. 

But other people, like I said earlier, Mr. Friday, when he when he went in, it was the business teaching business teacher. Major? 

Yes. 

I remember interviewing in a very elderly gentleman, almost 100 years old who told me that he said, I'm a wealthy man today, thanks to Freddie, be with what we were doing. Yeah. 

But you see him he'd be saying baseball games. Watching football? 

Yeah. Yeah. I thought that was so funny. 

He said If you did if you did what Freddie be, when did you say that male, but he had the basics down on investing and manage your money. Not very many people listen to him at the time. 

Didn't have any money, didn't know if we'll ever optimistic, had to start with something in order to invest in something really cool people around the time it was, did you do remember like homecomings and Rec parades and taking part in those kinds of things? 

No, we didn't take part in those. I remember all of them. Short tail parade. They had the freshman I guess primarily would go uptown. They pulled those cable colors, lose it. You never did anything within this yet. Most of that was done in football season. We're busy, we're wide. We weren't supposed to be participating in those things. Those are the ones that, you know, it was I think I saw that one time. Yeah, it's a shame because really they were great traditions. They still are. 

You guys were practise, practise a disciplined and and you know, when we are academic work at home, if we had. Saturday morning classes scheduled at home. We had to attend all classes. Name or not. It has been tried, I think. Dave, again, if we had to attend up until 11, if we had one after the 11, we can be excused. 

But I know two different seasons. I think I had that tin from eight to 11 going to be the football that afternoon. Nobody cared secondary to you in your place, so to speak, by doing those things. 

But he got a big head. I think they did and we didn't care. Didn't we thought that was a thing to do. I think I think DOD was really a master at doing that. I feel good about themselves, do the right thing. 

But he didn't want to treat you like you're some kind of special style or something. He just wanted you to do the right thing. And one thing, I don't know if you've talked with many people about Coach Alexandra. He was there when I first went down in January. He died in 1950. 

So he was, he was very interesting. 

He stopped me a couple of times, I can think is I would coming down the hill, he probably stand out there smoking. They're talking then he did he called me up and talk with me about it. He's one told me who to go to for math tutoring and that type thing. He had a big answers. 

He took an interest very much so, you know what surprised me so much about doing the history of Georgia Tech was finding out that he when he died, he wasn't that old 61, I think. Yeah. 

But everybody called him the old man. Yeah. Right. 

But the old man when he was 40 or 40? 

Yeah. He was a gentleman. He treated people. Had a different personality. Yeah. Good. Yeah. He played under Heisman. That's wrong. 

So he had a very conservative approach towards football, different than Heisman did, but he was certainly shaped by I interviewed his daughter, his youngest daughter. Okay. I didn't know. She Rebecca, she donated all of his papers to us for the Archives. 

So we have all of his letters and all the thing is, is wonderful to piece it together. It was very highly respected in the game of football all over the country. Was not. Dad came along because he he he hired him before he left university of Tennessee. Yeah, He sure did. 

I'm told that that's the only thing dad ever regretted and later life was that he didn't finish and get his degree. 

The one thing he felt bad because I didn't He always tell you boys, you get your degrees and get your degree. And he tell you, he said Don't get one of these athletic t-shirts and Georgia Tech grew up them. 

So they haven't been one of these professors. 

He said drapes and he said some of these guys are just looking for you to come in and they said they'll blast here. He said, Dress decent and get the class. He was giving you the word was the way you get through that word. 

Now talk to me about him. 

What was your relationship with dad? 

Not as close as some other people, but he was always very genuine and friendly and very helpful. And he said he took an interest. He knew he knew what you were doing and he knew he knew your name. Oh, yes. Yes. I'm told that he motivated people just by respect for him. You wouldn't want to hurt his feelings or let him down? 

That's right. 

Did that really motivate you? 

I don't remember who, but somebody told me it was like playing for your own father. Yeah. Yeah. He had a very unique way. And then mannerism that a lot of people didn't have. 

That he could talk with intake and he didn't care to call your name in a group meeting and tell you in a kind way even make you want to crawl under the leaf, you know, but, but he'd make it and he could do it in a way that they could. 

And the coaches, some of the coaches, coach roles was a real energetic going in Ghost Dog belief and he tell you, we're going to practice a certain length of time? 

Well, you'd quit there. And some of those those are won't go on another 15 minutes. No, we're quitting now. 

So you say Frank, wind it up. He he was a man of his word. He was respected for their coach like that, even survive today. It's questionable. Questionable world. Yes, it is. It's a very questionable but I don't know if it could. 

But it's an interesting thing because so many people talk about the greatness of him then he was one of the great wall across the country. Yeah. Then probably the great Bob. Excellent. 

You've probably one of the best on the sideline during the game and making adjustments to what he could see in whether he could do. He was strategized, knew how to call the shots. Yeah. You come up again sometime he made grabbed me and he said. Can you block that line? 

Backer him or her? 

Can you can you hold it? 

Oh, yeah. You'd asked me personally and then hit somebody, said Let's do this or do whatever. He changed them, changed and why you could change it. 

And he put into play one time we had never run playing Georgia when Athens, he real quickly grabbed a fellow chapel around who can play the little chapel because you know, his history. And he said, can you throw a pass in the chat, go ahead and play them. It's probably a whole year. He said, Yes, sir, I couldn't do it. 

So any women in one of these fake one and stop and pass and just go to touchdown just because it can't be faked everybody out. No one expected. I didn't pay any attention to who was back there. Why? 

Because to go and see him before? 

Yeah. It gave him something to talk about for the rest of his life. He said he said I figured a few thought I could do it. I must be able to use a lot smarter than I am. That was psychology that he was working. He was very interested on so many things. It's really hard for me. It means some people to really describe everything that can go in and check on his behalf. 

But one thing that everybody agrees across the board, everything you read about ever written about him was he was a great athlete himself. 

Oh, well coordinated and just a wonderful athlete, right? 

Because I talked and work with some people here who participated with him. And gatherers use to talk about because they said that was his interests. And you see pictures when he was 12 years of age, he was playing with the varsity sports. 

A fellow lead always Franklin, who was the coach here at the first coach at this high school, came against both from or how I understand. He had done it because of a dog because he knew he was playing it at age 12 or lovely. 

But I played a lot. These guys have played with him. And it wasn't only football. He was great at golf, he was wonderful at tennis. He was just gifted. He was naturally. 

I'm told that one of the things that he would do every once in a while just to put some of the boys and their place was to have little bets with them about who could kick football half-hour or Alabama or to place it someplace or something. Somebody said, I don't remember who told me the story about a sports writer who challenged him. Daddy's, you walk as far as you want to go and stop and turn around. I'll put it in your hat. And the guy said he was a believer for the rest of my life. 

He told us there's a group, I'm about gambling, playing sports, not to do it because he said he wouldn't reason he quit playing golf as much as he did. 

He was getting too messy hit play with guys like Bob Hope and all these people got to be an issue for the school and they didn't want him to do that. 

We would the college all-star game at Purdue University of practice, and for which I played in Chicago. And we were one of the big recreation halls. They produce shooting pool. And he came by shooting. And he would hold the acoustic different promote people can be in a place like this. They said that he learned to shoot when he couldn't get over it. He was a liquor and he continued to shoot pool that way. And did they did well? 

Yeah. 

But I've always thought that was interesting. They got transferred along. 

They said nobody in their right mind ever been to bet against data on anything if he thought he could do it, he probably maybe that's where that famous dad's luck came in. A lot of it was gone, no, he came here to visit his brother one time. 

His sister was telling me and he hadn't played golf and alone time and they took him out to Country Club the play, and he wanted to match with them before and he hadn't played golf and just a natural athlete. 

He wasn't natural and you got to travel with him a good bit because you went to ball games? 

We went to how many games did you go to? 

The Orange Bowl and sugar. The controversial sugar bowl? 

No. No, no. My brother was with it the other way. 

So your brother came up to school to your younger brother? 

My younger brother don't know that. What was his name? 

Don Don Miller. He was then 5456. He played. 

If you picked up right where you left off that Dr. 

Miller boys, there were the hostage boys and the Miller boys and the Morris and every other varietal voice to the money. I never interviewed in either Marines. Exposed to the wonders of dodge. Not dad's not only coaching, but also as athletic director. In later times, but he he he took you guys places that you would never have gone. 

Like if you went to a ballgame, you got to do big grownup things like go to separate clubs or nice restaurants. He was good to know where we played University of Mississippi in a sugar bowl. I guess that was in January first 1953. 

And I knew I'd met two or three of the Mississippi players with other situations and coached odd took us straight into New Orleans to the hotel they were hoping, but looks in Mississippi practicing auditing going down there, relaxed, having a good time in the French Quarter. You know what? 

That's not bad. Not bad at all. He tweeted you like gentlemen, I expected you to behave that way. You should hear it when very often anybody ever broke his trust? 

No. 

If I did it get the plate broken as we said, they used to say, If you get your plate broken, get taken off the training table, eating and lose your scholarship? 

Yeah. I hadn't heard that. I heard somebody can get your plate broken thing. Okay. Yeah, that's an interesting expressions. They explain it to you. He had to dismiss too real good players. 

One was probably one of the best athletes who come to Georgia Tech from name of John why ago? 

He was excellent. He was in class with some rules. You broke some rules. And then Billy T T was ready just to break this goo record is rushing out. Nobody wanted to talk about that, but I know I wasn't there. 

I was in the military, so I was doing all the research, looking at newspaper headlines and there was ability, and then all of a sudden there was no morbidity taken. I don't know what happened to them, evaporated. 

Where did he go? 

And they said that he broke the rules and that dad said to him, That's the end of that, but he did find them another school and he did get him a football scholarship. 

So the kid went off and played so well, I don't think so. He didn't play but he had a scholarship, maybe he did. 

I don't know exactly because I knew he officiate it in the Southeast Conference Football official group for some time. 

And no hard feelings because evidently not they knew they knew the rules, the rules, and never did discuss it with, you know, there were no hard feelings. I was told George told me that there were no feelings by George would know. Yeah. 

I think that I think the game you're describing you the sugar bowl game was the one where they said the coach over there kill his mother, he could beat dad. Looked at the film, I looked at the footage of that of that game. Really interesting. It was because he was, he had great strategy and came through. 

But one of the things we didn't talk about about your Georgia Tech time was the ROTC program. 

The first couple of years you were obligated to be in the ROTC, but after that you weren't but you stayed in it? 

I stayed in four years, most of us did. It was pretty common. A Korean War. He was yeah, it was coming about that time. And so most, most all other state in the head and the different branches, Army and Navy, Air Force. 

And the idea of courses you'd rather go in as a commissioned officer, then there's a footnote, right? 

And so you did do that. 

Graduation was a funny thing happened to you on the way to the hat though before when you got to the certain point in your career at school, you were drafted to go into before you had finished, you didn't have your degree yet, you got drafted to go into the football team. 

Was it San Francisco? 

How did that happen? 

Did they they send a scout to see you? 

I guess I just drafted in Orlando. And one of the owners after the draft came by and talk with us, talk with me. And we talked to I just signed a contract with him. There you go. You're gonna go ahead and paste in. I thought I would go one here and say, it's dry and you're just going to go give a shot. 

And then we selected two along with what, 34 of us, George Morris, myself and Bobby more head and peep Brown went up to, they've had a All-Star game. 

The players from college seniors with a play together for about three weeks and then play the champion, National Football League Champions, which that year was the Detroit lines. 

And when went up there for three weeks at Lafayette, at Purdue University, Lafayette, indiana and practice in Chicago. Tribune put that. There was a big thing. I don t know when they discontinued it, but they sponsored in. Oh, did you all do that was enjoyable. 

We got beat, I think, three touchdowns to one, but a couple of years, the college team one actually didn't actually give you a little taste of what it was gonna be like to go into the pro, why it's different. 

If you go one more step. And you went out to San Francisco and San Francisco. We left Chicago that night after the game. Fluid. And then they had you had to stop in Oklahoma City or someplace to refuel. And we got in, I can remember 1953. We got in the morning. 

They put us on the bus and we've played an exhibition game up in Sacramento, California because they were paying you and they go off together here. Is that the farthest you'd ever been away? 

Yeah. Yeah. First up over in Kelvin, it was a pretty big adventure. That was a great experience, great. 

And then there were only 12 teams in the National Football League, Two Cities and play with them for one year when one sees and then I came back to school. I finished my sixth. Did you actually play any? 

Yes, I played and I played quite a bit. You didn't like quite a bit, so you had a nice taste of what it was going to be like. He decided that you'd go back to school when they weren't paying big bucks in those days? 

No. One way to get anything at the time, probably as much as you were worth. Here's me, in your opinion, That's how you were aware of maybe a coach dad wanted you to come back. 

He'd said if you're going to find that occurs, you encouraged you to play he he didn't encourage you to go play pro football? 

No. 

I never did not want to be able to encourage Hamlet to the thing that I thought that was funny when I looked at the records and things that he said was that he encouraged these guys that had girlfriends to get married. Yeah. He liked that. He would take the Caribbean. They weren't married. He would take the wives on trips with them. 

But that wasn't incentive because they behaved better after that wouldn't fly today at all. Today they started encouraged, I'm sure, definitely. I don't know how many of the players are married. No different world. Everybody is different in that. It couldn't be that way anymore. 

But you came back to school. Were you allowed to play when you came back? 

No. No. 

I just stayed in school and gotten the degree and got the commission and servicing and had been recruited to work for Tennessee Eastman. 

I didn't apply and they had did you apply for that job or were you recruited when you go for it? 

Did you know you wanted to come back to campus? 

I thought that was probably the best thing I could do. Thanks. Part was what you had in your mind. 

You want to come back on and I've had some had some personal problems in a family and my older brother had gotten killed in an automobile accident well, while I was in service and your family was dealing with tragedy, right. 

So you were coming home to be part of the family as well? 

I was in military service by me. 

So you got to get your commission. Came here, worked for just a little bit of time. And then you were called up, right? 

You get called up and you already have a commission. Do you have to go somewhere and go through many officers training for 17 weeks. We had a Officers Training and then I was assigned to an attachment there at Fort Benning. We were trained then it was transferred to Fort Jackson, South Carolina. I felt going in another training group there and they made me the sports sports officer. Oh, no, they had us for something. Yeah. Oh, yeah. That was sports was a big thing in military service. Carryover from World War II and all that. And they were still doing it then. They had all sports and had all these great athletes. That was the way they were serving their country was to keep the morale up. We played the marine basis and air force bases. We played it Bowling Air Force Base from Fort Jake. I was in Fort Jackson. They had the ear. 

Now I'm God, who started at play pool bowl year before enforced basis. 

Well, what's the sports officer's job but he arranged these matches, but yeah. Schedules and equipment and everything involved with it. 

Well, that was a good job. Good job. Knew a lot of people make a lot of friends. 

They say during the summer a lot of people would come in for two weeks training and you'll see people use known you'd played against them, competed with me. Yes, it was. 

So your service time wasn't a real burden for you? 

Not as not as bad as it could have been. 

And did you stay state side the whole time that we had when we finished our basic, we could fill out a form to state where we'd like to go. And I thought it'd be a good time to go to Germany. 

So I said either Germany or the West Coast someplace. And so I was assigned for Jackson. Nobody will ask about what you really aren't good. I know there was a colonel at Fort Jackson that new ascend he had contacted. I found that later. 

Coast DOD as to some of the guys were and they were looking for somebody to coach a football team and to do that. 

So I was drafted for that on the recommendation of Bobby and brought back doors in graves. 

Break ball went on the record, say you are one of the very best tackles and all of his very nice compliment, very nice compliment coming from him. He's still going at it and still producing heat. They respected man in his field, isn't it? 

Yeah. 

So that was a wonderful tribute to you that he said that, well, the two years ended and you came home to King sport such query, just start your civilian life and go to work. Like everybody always has to sooner or later working in with Tennessee Eastman Company. 

And you started with them, you said doing human resources jobs were some personnel work of type and wage administration. And it's going to be easement as a chemical company. They factor they manufacturer chemicals and plastics and fibers. At that time, it was a division of Eastman Kodak. 

Eastman Kodak, I think they started back in 1917 or something making wood alcohol here for theme development was a big thing. What they originally grew it grew from there. Yes, it is an employer that 8500 people there. 

So kings, if that's the major job of kings port identifies and they also now they have a plan in Columbia, South Carolina, long view, Texas, and Batesville, Arkansas. 

So it's a company that has grown and grown. 

How many people are there in King's board on the average, What's your population? 

In a 40 thousand new Penicillium Linux, that's a pretty big employer that employs 85. 

Alright, so you started to work with them in 19? 

Well, officially you were on the record before you went off to the 1950s. 

But you were gone. 

So you didn't actually come back until 19576. 

Well, you actually started working first, you said in human resources and things to do with personnel work. 

And from that, you got into the manufacturing and manufacturing materials handling in his supervisor and even they were operating the ammunition plant at here in King sport and then it call it the host and Norm ammunition plant. Yeah. I was transported there for five years. And materials handling. They they made a lot of high explosives that was developed during the early forties. 

So that doesn't help for World War II, but it won't matter where you live and it's still operation now. 

Okay, so it's still a British Antarctic. Now. It's interesting to look back over those 15. Yeah. 

You remember what it was like when you were going through it and now how much has changed and how much has stayed the same. Keys borders changed. 

It's much more opportunity than it is a little town like you grew up in, right? 

But you still can walk about anywhere in town to know somebody? 

Just about people everywhere. And you just stayed with that company? 

I just stayed with him in good company and appreciate it. Did not make all that much money. They have good benefits. Qwerty. That's the big thing is safety stayed on security. I had a lot of 2550 or service employees. That was a common thing, as common as a company that took care of its own? 

That's correct. You said you didn't get rich, but you didn't have to worry about a comfortable living. Um, tell me about your family. You had three children? 

Correct. 

And had three children in the first one is hey, Junior named after you write and had twins, Robin, Susie. 20th. Okay. All right. 

Tell me about how when did he do for a living when he was working with a pharmaceutical company, he lives in Chattanooga. Did he go to college? 

He did. 

So to University of Tennessee and East Tennessee State in life working with the manufacturer's sales? 

Yes. Okay. And does he have any children? 

I have two girls. Okay. And then Rob and Susan, twins. Twins and Rob does not have any children, but what what does his career? 

He works with Eastman. He has worked so well in the manufacturing areas, did he? 

Yes. 

At East Tennessee State, right here at Johnson City, right? 

Again, Susie, both of them graduated from East Tennessee State. You wait till your path. Did Susie follow? 

Season sales of promotional items at this time. She has like 33 daughters and so that gives you five grand daughters, granddaughters there. They may live right here. We have here that will house and gentlemen, He's in the twin Robin, Susie or here? 

Yes. 

So you get to see the three girls that locally then this being a second marriage with my wife Phyllis. She has two children, a son and a dollar. And their sons in new Brownfield, Texas, just north of San Antonio. He has two daughters. 

So that gives you 77 girls. And the daughter is married and hands in Columbia, Missouri. They're not even close by there. Right when the family gets together. I mean, you have seven granddaughters. You tell me they're just the oldest one is just going to be 13 in June. And the youngest one is fine. All right. That's a lot of girls. Girls to gets active. It just the course being spread like we are. They've only been together a couple of times, but nonetheless, it's active when two are present. 

Two little girls can make the action for, you know, they're, they're just villus or she is she from this area or she's coming from Tennessee, see from them in Middletown say, you know, tendency is East, Middle West. And she's from Middle Tennessee. Is this effect. This is East. Here in East Tennessee. 

She came here to work in season attorney and she's with the walls with the district attorney's office. And ten years ago she's retiring. August 31st. She's a criminal court judge. And the county here, the second judicial district mission you run for you. It's a political elected position. Finish, judge. I have not told you that I filled out a fellow will run in and filled out a two-year term. She ran against the incumbent and was elected. And then she was elected for another eight year terms. 

So she'll have a ten years. And then she's going give it out. She's going to give it. All right. 

Well, you have a little taste of politics. Yes, I hate her. We didn't know what we were doing. My father was always interested in local politics and many more. 

But that never tell you? 

Not No, Not much. 

I just tried to support and work with Phillips when she was he tried a few things you knew when you football professional football, When gonna be your thing, you know, could probably wasn't big enough, as credible as the years went by. Bigger than most. When I'm playing pro football, I don t know that ever played against anybody. Smaller than four? 

My butt really tight. Bigger than all the guys I know that went to play. Your bigger than Larry Miller, Larry Morris, or re back. And those bonds are not big guy, never Rogers and he played their positions. 

But even then, Johnny, three big guys, they're a little guys. 

If you compare it to them. I know what those then the pro football linemen a big re re backup data. You they were a lot bigger than him. Today. They're giants, right? 

Downright scary. I told someone I can stand behind them and you wouldn't see me. You're probably right right by today. Everything is different. Yeah. Everything is bigger and better. Oh, you've been inducted to everybody's everybody. You're eligible for us Hall of Fame. Very fortunate. Don't all have the same name. Sports Hall of Fame, hall that being fortunate. 

In Tennessee, East Tennessee, Georgia Tao of course, Georgia Tech, and also ga, ga, because you played in georgia, those are great honors that are given to you by your peers. Sports people. Very humble feeling, well, you're a very humble man. You're very modest man about all of your accomplishments. 

You look back at the time, what was the best times for you? 

Oh, man, I don t know that all of it's been good. It's hard. It's hard. I've tried to think of it and I've run through my mind. And there's been so many things for is in sports. 

With some Bowl game that you just knew it couldn't get any better than that? 

I really didn't feel that. 

Just an honor and a pleasure to have the opportunity to play and then participate and to be fortunate to win the game. And you saw it, right. 

You always thought that before as any, any particular one thing, I guess maybe being selected, playing in college all-star game would be one of them. That would be certainly a big loss, is only a small number of people can say they did that. How did it feel to get your degree? 

Three. You remember? 

That? 

I remember, yes. And I didn't go through and graduation. Lives in an army. I was off of scheduling and military. 

That's not fair, but we're caring for kernel then Lear, you Tom that the president, he'd right to know and it was wrapped around the diploma. Just saying thanks. And that isn't that wonderful? 

No one's ever told me that before either. Yeah. 

So he made it personal for you because you were off serving in the military? 

Because when you think about, you were probably the first one in your family to graduate from college. Your parents? 

My father went to what was East Tennessee, stays at Teachers College at the time. 

It may be a while on your grandfather enforcement gone to college to be stolen or it wasn't common? 

It wasn't accompanying notes up. 

But your parents didn't get to go to your graduation because you were off in the military. 

So it kinda made it a little special that Van Lear made the effort to do that, isn't it? 

Yeah. And you still have that diploma? 

I have it someplace. Don't you lose that. You've been you've had a blessed life. Yeah, sorry, I don't have much to show for it. And you told me you didn't have any story to tell me, but you will run on where you've had. We've talked quite a bit. Yeah, you had lots of stories to share with me and I thank you so very much for taking the time. Today. It's been such a pleasure, pleasure here. Webpage where you can get a good one.