This is a living history interview with John Weitnauer, class of 1949, conducted by Maryland's summers on September the 1800s, the year 2003. We're at his home in Atlanta, Georgia. And the subject of the interview today is his life in general is experiences at Georgia Tech. John, if your permission, you said I may call you that, sir. Having known each other for several years, It's okay. It is. Absolutely. 

We are so pleased that you could find time for us to come and see you today here and your beautiful home and talk about your whole life story. And so I want to know where you were born and when. 

Well, I'm delighted to be a part of the program. And I was born on May 21st, 1926 and Miami Beach, Florida. And history on that. 

My mother and daddy from or from Atlanta and the keto, Georgia and we were living in Miami Beach that time it goes my father's parents for them. We wouldn't hurricane 1920s six, living about three blocks from the beach, I'm told. 

And I was less than six months, but it came through and the people in Florida did not understand the eye of the hurricane that particular time. 

And the the hurricane first going through rarer roughly, very quiet and easy, and people started going across the causeway and so many people were killed and that hurricane because of one it coming quickly in number two, there, not knowing about it. And then not knowing about the eye of the hurricane. Until I was in a Stone Mountain granite type house three blocks the beach. They had over 50 people in it. 

And the people had mattresses or what have you in one of the few houses standing I'm TO after that hurricane that close to the beach. What an amazing experience. 

What was your daddy doing there besides the fact that his mom and daddy Well, at that time he'd gotten out of the Navy and that time he was driving and they want to call a Ginny bus. That was transportation from the beach back to the city. Was in the Navy in World War One man. He was. How interesting. There weren't a lot of people in the Navy. That's right. He had an interesting story to tell him. He did. 

But my mother says we don't have this kind of weather indicator, Georgia, we're going to go back to the keda, which we did. 

But let me go back maybe a little earlier than that and talk about my grandparents. 

Three of my grandparents came directly from Germany, and the fourth grandparents, mother and father, came from Germany. And that's the reason I've told my children. That's the reason I'm so easy-going and easily get along with his strong. 

But one of the grandfathers came over and he could not speak English. 

And he met a man on the boat who told me go to Atlanta, Georgia, meet Jacob else's who at that time else's afford main cotton mills gave me a job. And he later worked in voice. 

His job, his self up to the being the treasurer, the full domain cotton mills, the land of opportunity, a wash. 

And he died on a ship coming back from Brooklyn to Atlanta during World War II, there was a blackout and two ships collide it somewhere off the coast of North Carolina. 

So you probably knew him? 

No, I did not know him. This is my my my grandfather know because he died and Bobby 1970s and 1980s during World War II. I'm sorry. I meant World War one. Before your time. The fact that your grandparents were down there in 1926, even your parents? 

That was pretty early. It was early and I can remember my father talking about the amount of time. 

I can't tell you how much, but the amount of time and the difficulty of driving from Atlanta, Georgia to YM open and flat tires and murder and you name it, that was a very early, early date to be a pioneer homesteader down there. That much. 

Well, there's a lot of land speculation. I remember the story of my father telling you about this chutney bus. 

What is driving, that a piece of property supposedly turn hands four times on the, on the way from the beach to the city. Real speculation. They were fortunes made in life. That's right. That's right. Swaps and in good stuff too. That's right. Mama had her way though enough of the hurricanes already, right. 

So we came back to it, decayed a Georgia and live with my aunt for short period of time, a mother, father built a home on South McDonald's street indicator, about six blocks below Agnes Scott. 

And what trade did he take up, what he moved back from? 

Well, he has a number of jobs, but at that particular time, my guess and I remember as a kid from 30 to 39, he had a tough time because of depression. 

He has a lot of odd jobs, but he later went back, went to work the form Eigen cotton mills as a machine fix us a sewing machine fixer because full main cotton mills made bags. And so that was his job of fixing, keeping sewing machines running. 

So there was a little family tradition with the bank now than what it was to the extent that molecule, on my mother's side was also worked to form my own cotton mills in Minneapolis, Minnesota. And he ran that particular platform for number of years. 

Is it coincidence that a German ancestry person met a German ancestry person or was there a German community in Atlanta? 

Okay. 

I think that there was a A Fast app size German community in Atlanta area because again, remember my father talking about the old man, his father, that group playing pinochle or what have you on Sunday afternoons and a beer bottle of beer will ask them all afternoon. Today, a bottle of Nursing. That's right. Too expensive to extract it. That's right. 

But I'd say there was, in fact, there was a Lutheran Church in Atlanta on Euclid Avenue. In fact, I think the building is still standing. And at that time back in the, well around World War One, the sermon was delivered in German. 

So I'd say if they have a pretty good group of German people that particular time, it wasn't that much of a coincidence that you end up being West Germany? 

That's right. Try it anywhere in the same community. Did you have brothers and sisters job? 

I was blessed having three brothers, and I was the oldest. And I guess I kind of broke my mother and father in the three to come along. It is. 

And one was named because about five years younger than myself and then a gene who is maybe four or five years younger than that. And Joel who was much younger. And Joel incidentally as a Georgia Tech graduate also? 

Oh, yeah. Yeah. 

So primarily model was a homemaker? 

That is correct. Dad tried to keep everything. That's right. I want to make enough money to come in to feed them for boys. Where you lived indicators. 

So where would you have gone to elementary school when I went to win on a park grandma school. Okay. Building is still there by Dale Miller was the principle. You can remember? 

Yeah, I do. That's amazing. Male. Was John a good student? 

Dui school? 

I'd say I enjoyed school. I guess that was a B student. Maybe some mama didn't have any trouble getting you to go off to school? 

No. No. And she had she had no probability of boys probably we we knew what to do. Nice head was without giving it a whole lot of thought. Everybody didn't know what to do. That's right. Yeah, there's too much that goes into it today. They give them too many choices. Do I mean, you know, this is what I want to be. That's mom. There was a right way and it was mom or dad is, you know how to keep the peace. 

After you got through elementary school, being a good student at Tommy at that time, did you go into middle school? 

At that time you went to high school? 

And just as I was starting in high school, I guess, and 39, they went from four years to five years. And that was a quote to thing to do at that particular time. 

I was taken outside take the five-year maybe mother helped me to take decide to take the five-year cohorts to get more courses in. Because I knew my father and my mother went to college. And it was drilled in my head that all four of us we've got what I'm going to call it. And number two, don't get married till you finish college. No doubt in my mind, I was with a family mores. That's right. Absolutely. Interesting. And you see there's no family mores anymore. That's right. 

So but they were the rules you live by. You grew up knowing you might as well do well in school because you're going to try it. 

So where did you go to high school or junior high. 

And then after the war started, somewhere along the way, I'd start to get out in four years so I could go into service in the fourth year, I guess it was I really double up courses in math and chemistry and things like that. 

So I could go to Georgia Tech. Very good student then well hours As and Bs to well, that's very that's very good. 

Did you ever get involved in athletics at all? 

Well, I went out for basketball one day and that's all it took one day and they said, Why don't you try something else? 

There was more than heist and that's why some slumping about scale and I just didn't have any scale to that right. That house. 

So you just said, oh, well, I tried the law, but that would mean did you hear about Georgia Tech because you lived in the area and you've heard about it or oh, sure. Yeah. I guess I had two options. One is I didn't have the money or the family had the money to go out of the city. And I guess at that time was Georgia State. 

Well, why was it the division of University of Georgia, Atlanta and Georgia Tech? 

And, um, I had a feeling I want to take textile engineering because of boxy. I could go to work for mine, cotton mills and textile engineer without any trouble. Role model, you saw a try. 

So he attacks lead to nail. 

But let's say you were prepping yourself to go to Georgia Tech? 

Yes. 

What kind of academic reputation to Georgia Tech have at that time, at least in your mind, what were you thinking? 

Well, it had had a good reputation. May be tough. Yeah, that was before the time of rankings, national rankings. 

What happened? 

What did I asked in your mind what you were thinking now? 

But it was it had a good reputation. 

So the next brother coming up was still in high school when you were going off? 

Correct. And she was just starting to go into high school. You were setting the path for, I guess he went to Emory University. He didn't follow your path, is followed by a tribe. 

Had you been to the campus at all? 

Had you ever been to a football game or never went to football game beforehand? 

I don t think I don't have a lot of time because I was in high school. I worked a good bit. Worked at ANP twenty-five cents an hour. And would you believe any good German family has their children? 

They were able to work. Yeah. That's right. Yeah, that's right. Of course you would never even entered my mind. 

You weren't you were probably always working at wondering how laws I had from time two jobs I worked, I jerked soda tables, drugstore on the square and the keto. And I guess the sum of one went to tech. I was working about a 60 hours a week. Which your father didn't feel sorry for you or your mother every day? 

Well, not yeah. There's doesn't feel sorry about the crime. Good for you. Yeah. Growing I grew up that joint family too. 

So you are never considered exceptional. And it didn't mean you couldn't get good grades either. Oh no, you were expected to chug along the malls and behave yourself. 

Of course, tell my parents told me that if you get a spanking or Soviet school, you expect now when you get on Hamline, I know that you've behaved yourself and your work well most of the time, even though there wasn't much money, was it a happy time for me? 

Absolutely. I didn't I didn't know we had a problem. Everybody was in the same boat. Really an exceptional thing to find my bird. 

And the people you knew, there was some indicator who had money, they not something that they've flown it and say, you know, we got and you don't know. 

So you didn't feel like you were deprived? 

Not at all. Not at all. 

The first time you came to Georgia Tech, he knew with the campus was you were aware of that? 

No doubt. Yes. I was able to get there. And I bet public transportation was the way you got around. Oh, absolutely. You didn't come with a car digit? 

Oh, no. No. 

In fact, I used to hitchhike from South McDonald's straight up to the square and then hitchhike from the square to tech. And that was my first year as I got school most of the time, hitchhiking back-and-forth. Did you wear a red hat? 

Yes. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Some of the folks I interviewed said that that Hat was actually a good way to get a ride. It was I still got it upstairs. They advertise. Good boy. Let's write the word wrap. 

So what was your impression or tackling you that they're trying to think of your earliest memory. 

What did you think? 

Well, at that time is, as you know, is a grant feel as it used to be, and the hill and maybe one or two square blocks, that's about all they wanted. 

It was a pretty small place and they seemed to me and I went to the the current administration building tech towel for the registration process. 

And I guess the dormitories that was a success centers located now, that seems like it's part of the registration process. Those nodes, I try. 

And you were going to be different than the bulk of the students who are going to live on the campus and that you are going to commute from home? 

Well, I had no choice, but to the extent there was no any money. You're right. As far as the tuition and such, that was fairly reasonable. 

I want to say and this may not be right that the tuition, something like $35 a corner all semester, probably close to being ready for for whole. And I think there were two semesters at that particular time. It wasn't until 1945 that they went to court. And of course it was the Georgia School of Technology. Yes. Yes. Fine too. 

So you were entering it in the end of that era of Troy, Dr. 

Britain was still running right across the campus, had been president for quite a long time, expected the tech boys to behave just like your dad? 

No question about, well, I think I think that then in all the years that tech students are really good students liquid education and did not, do not have a lot of side issues. 

Social issues are settled to the extent, I think socially conscious, but I don t think that they go off and veer off as they do in some schools. 

Well, I can't tell you how many times people have told me that they didn't have time to mess around. 

Well, we did a lot of focus. That's right. 

But responses between school and work and maybe dating occasionally, you continue to work. 

He still had to have a job because you won't have any money to spend, but if you didn't earn it, that's right, right. Absolutely. And there were things like books. All right. Nobody was handing anything. No. It was all go workforce. 

Well, I think that I proud fact, I know I paid my education then followed by my clothes. Didn't even have to pitch in here. No. No. He was still looking after three more boys who ate a lot. Yeah. I'm sure they reside a lot too. 

But it was kind of I mean, talk about a burden. I mean, you had to get yourself there might happen to be on time, right? 

No. You can't be late. You didn't get classes? 

No, ma'am. You were on a very strict routine probably five days for classes, right? 

Absolutely. That cuts. We had three cuts. I think. Three cuts and I don't know what the penalty was. Rather use them carefully. That's right. 

You weren't out requests when you got the Rat Hat when you got there because everybody else is wearing absolutely right. And it didn't bother me at all. No. 

So proud of him time. 

Did you start going to the football game span and taking part in some things on campus? 

I'll be honest, I don't really remember. I probably went to several. 

But again, I was working either one or two jobs at particular time, so I didn't have a lot of free time for something like that. 

And it was no, I did join a fraternity and ATO and we work on Cherry Street, which is right across where the 00 affirming was. Probably close with allow libraries today, I think that was a good experience. Great group of people. 

So you made friends there? 

I did transfer till now. Till now. Yeah. Actually, I'm a board from the Cato who went to tech and became an ATO, got me involved. And I pledged and they're just a great group of people that costs money too. 

So that meant you had to work a little harder, right? 

That's right. And it's a lot harder when you live off the campus. It is two years. 

Well, it's ready the first year that was in 43 because I went in service into 44 years. I came back and 46. And I spent a year at home in 46 in the last two years is when I went to the fraternity house. Okay. 

So that first year when you were commuting, there probably wasn't a whole lot of stuff you could get involved with after hours because you had a job? 

No. That's right. Now. We did have a fraternity house and I double date with Bill Smith or somebody else. 

Why was my freshman year you live in a hard time going to school? 

On time for a little bit of everything. Absolutely. That the world was going into pieces. 

And in the winter of 1941 when Pearl Harbor was attacked, I imagine you were just like all the other youngsters itching to get into it. That's right. 

And I joined the CAP, I think as a civil air patrol and did marching, having a little field jacket and the patch on my shoulder. 

And of course you were doing ROTC because everybody was doing no, I didn't do I did not do our Tc and get away with it because I think I joined the Reserves. In fact, I did join of reserves and 43, but they didn't call me until November 44. No. 

But when you went to takin 39, you didn't have to take our OTs. You had to John. You didn't have an app. 

Well, I'm glad you told me that. He never kicked. You see, my mind is disabled in some way and I'll only only mentally you are taking. Okay. I was taken. 

Our team went into the reserves and the similar patrol and then you actually put yourself on the line, you're gonna get drunk. 

But anyways, that is correct. And they didn't call you went to win in November 44. November four is 44. And you got, presume a letter. I did matter. 

Well, it was not draining. It wasn't the palate because well, ps but now I wanted to go into service. I really do. I think that I don't think people can even understand the fervor Patriots. That's right. We hear from people who were in that same boat. Almost everyone can't remember where they were when Pearl Harbor occurred? 

I do. Where were you How's that? 

Uh, and Adams, we'll Georgia flying model airplanes. One of your hobbies. You ever join the model airplane called the attack? 

No. They had no. Didn't. Back then. Yeah. They used to do the oh, yeah. 

Even earlier than that, they used to put the model planes on the grant field and even do little halftime show is I did not realize that a couple of the plane slip from there. 

Sometimes they would paint a face on it or, you know, make something that would make it look like a wasp. Is that not a buzzing? 

Yeah. 

So you missed that one? 

I sure did. 

But you remember hearing the news, did you realize how it was going to affect your life? 

No. No. 

So you have you held on to a little bit of your youth? 

Well, yeah. You say did you realize at that particular moment no. That day, no. 

But it didn't it didn't take long to sink in. 

And I guess that when President Roosevelt made his speech, that he began to sink in pretty fast as to what we know, I lost. Yeah. 

So what happened when they called you? 

You got a ladder and with Fort McPherson for, I guess three or four days and I went to Keystone feel in Mississippi for basic training, I think 16 weeks and then I went to enlist it to become a pilot. That was my objective. 

For echo, and I thought those guys who had those beautiful pink jackets and bars and hats and sand round has been just great. I they have on some of those Garden is the menu. Casey going to be a pilot. 

So they said no to that right off the bat. 

Well, Kiesler field. 

So I went to a mechanic, Scooby 29 mechanics coup in Amarillo, and I still had an urge to get some boss, so volunteered to go into infantry OCS and I was accepted and went to Fort Benning, Georgia and sent you since if you're an alco, you had to go through a basic six weeks course because you are not as smart as a basic infantry people who'd been through that training. 

So I was going through that six-week training and started in on Sunday. 

I was running the battle condition, of course, to try to get in shape because they made you do a lot of push-ups, lot of push-ups. And I busted my knee and had had surgery. And so that threw me out of three of three hours. 

And I guess I want now I was lucky because the people who had been graduate, who graduated for most classes went to the Battle of the Bulge. And so I guess looking back, I was very fortunate. 

But then I've sold you Sophie courses into hospital area while I was in Fort Benning, which those were courses that people could take and get kicked up credit to a graduation. It's kind of a mail-order type of thing, but they're very inexpensive. And then they shipped me back to Amarillo, Texas. And there was this the jaw processing people on and off the field. 

I guess one of the funny stories about that, when I went back to Amarillo, I had kind of a bad attitude because the war was over there. Yeah. 

Well, that's where I had been there. It has nothing to do really. I felt productive. I would just kind of goofing off and the guy was processed me on the field and he says, Can you type. I said no, but I could can you do this? 

I said No. Can you do this? 

I said No. He was a Georgia Tech graduate. He said John, he said, I'm trying to keep you from wanting Japan. Now. You can't do it. I'm playing, I'm shifting your rear-end the Japan as I can type. I can type. And then I add I going on about July the first 246 installed it back to Tech in the fall to 46. 

So your timing was pretty good all the way through including your knee? 

It was looking back, I would say, Oh, that's right. It saved him from Ben. Yeah. You were that close to it? 

Well, you still had a chance to taste the military? 

I did. She needed of that. And you learn how to talk? 

I did. Was there ever a thing in your mind that you might not go back to school or was it? 

No. I took an algebra book with me when I was in service and I worked I worked problems all doing. I was I was in serviced by algebra problem. Wow. I've never heard anyone foil that fond of it. Not that far. I knew I had to pass the course with bad because you couldn't get too much. That's right. I'm coming back was easier because you had the GI Bill. Oh, absolutely. 

But even then I worked but I had the GI Bill. You wouldn't know what to do with it. It made it made a big difference. It really did. And Georgia Tech was a different place when you came back? 

Yeah. Entirely different. 

So there were narrowly veterans and people like you who've been gone a short time, he came back and there were still a little what do you look down at? 

The rats were still there, Hey buddy, not every vitamin that people in fatigues and yeah, it was a pretty short period of time and crowded, very crowded. 

So many people go back. 

So it wasn't the innocent place that had been before the war, I'd say that's correct. Changed itself completely put on a whole new face. Basically. 

Did you see any change in the instructors and the quality of education you are getting? 

Or were you pretty convinced that you were still gonna be getting a good education? 

Well, I'll be honest. 

I don't think I really at that particular them thought about the quality of the professors and how good the education was. 

Because I just had the feeling when I went there, there was a, it was a good school and a place you to want to graduate from. And I had the same feeling when I came back. 

So I can't make any comparison between the professors before and after, and more than likely the number were there before and after. 

Now I'm sure there are a number of new ones because of the influx of students. 

So from who you know who the discharge, yeah. 

I'm told that it created a whole different environment in the classroom because you didn't have as much messing around when you had veterans who were focused on That's right. That's right. That was the bell curve quite high. 

Well, they told you, you know, we're going to flunk you guys out there. They were serious. They were and what is the way we we cleansed? 

That's right. Nothing wrong with that. 

But the fact that the older folks who had may not have been a lot of older chronologically, but we're older in their life experience. You can't go off to a battle and come back. And that's right. They knew they wanted to get out of school. Absolutely. They weren't there to mask. 

The fraternities, I'm told often partied heavy on the weekends, but they always studied during the week. 

When you came back, you decided to live on the fraternity houses that after my first year back, my last two years when I live in fraternity house. 

And when did you make your mind up? 

You weren't gonna go not to textile engineering, but how did that come about? 

I think I felt that for some reason that that didn't trig me as much when I came back. And I believe I'm right in saying that industrial engineering was just starting around 46. And Professor Gross close, that's the right way pronounce it. Was the dean or the head of the school that I went to talk to him. And then it sounds to me like that would be a good thing to do. 

So you went right to the, the head man and said, What is this gonna be all right. And he encouraged us. He did. He was recruiting. Oh, yeah, sure. Because knew it was brand new at trying to build his empire. 

And he did well, he sure did great stock, had a great idea and brought all the disciplines together so that you could be an engineer, but sort of a multitasker, but Troy and engineer, that'd be a good description of that, I think so. 

And you found that you could take to all the different types of classes that you were taking was somewhat more difficult than others. 

But mature went out. My first two semesters and 43 at Tech, I left with a well-known 1.68 average, which is, you know, is not very good. I think academic probation, I think one was passing on kept you in school. 

But I was working and going in. I had a lot of excuses. 

Why was that low? 

But when I came back at a three zeros, first three-quarters was no more fooling around and no. 

But the sad thing about it is I flunked descriptive geometry, which is a drawing, you know, cones and oranges and stuff in a second and twice. 

So they put me in night school, which really irritated me that a 30. And this is a one-hour course. They put me at night scale. And I've been to the third time I've taken a course that particular clause. And if I had not gotten the word from the day class that some of the same test was at night. 

And so I pass the course or I wouldn't have been there probably because I could not see those intersecting cones are what is one of those things that wasn't going to happen for non-model O'Brien. 

Now, tell me about that. 

They could if they didn't think you were doing well on something, they being the administration, could order you to go to night school? 

Yeah. I think I think that because I would have done it. 

I think that if you flipped the course of the same course twice, go to night school, it wasn't something you would volunteer to? 

Oh heck, no. 

Did you have a different teacher, the same teacher? 

All these different teacher? 

I don't think it was a teacher. I just think that my mind, for some reason just couldn't put all the lines together. 

I've heard people say that about different types of math courses or even in mechanics courses, thermo is one of them, which just sorry, out of my reach. Yeah. 

So it's kinda that situation for you that can really ruin your grade point average to when the flux I pick. 

Well, unfortunately the one out and count too much. 

But then I went back into school and in the fall. And where we went. When you went to night school, that would have been what year? 

I would have been in 47. Okay. I'm going to ask you a question. Thinking cat line. 

In 1947 when you looked around at the students that were tripping in there for, this was called the evening school of sciences because it was on the campus. 

Is that correct? 

As opposed to what some people call it a night school, which was really already transferred to downtown commerce. 

Now this This I think was just there was a I took other courses during the day. No. I think at night, I believe. 

But I know I was denied school and it was just if part of the base curriculum because I was taking other courses that are needed for graduation. 

The reason I'm asking is because we've been doing a research project on the registration cards and stuff and we know there were a lot of women there at that time. Yeah. Every time. I don't think I saw one for a lot of other other than a secretary or something. Is that right? 

Yeah. They were taking math courses, drafting, mechanical drawing, drafting slash. Yeah. Yeah. I don't recall. 

Thing of course is the manpower Act from 1941 had mandated that women could go because we needed to train women to the Riveter type, right? 

And of course, once that hat started happening, they continued to come and there were many of them there. 

But you don't remember it? 

I really don't. I written down, we might not have been taking the differential geometry. We're taking I just wondered if you noticed any. No, I can't remember back. The nice cool wishes that one quarter then? 

Yes. Then you went back to your regular routine? 

Correct. Were you tracking to graduate on time then with oh, yeah. Oh yeah. I'm just looking forward to win the day. Would you sell right with the mentality there? 

I'm looking forward to getting out. Absolutely. Absolutely. 

And how were we getting out in those days? 

Was it at the Fox Theater? 

Where? 

It wasn't it? 

Yeah. What's your memory of that? 

Well, I was one of those things up. I was glad to do it, but it didn't ring a bell. I don't get to rollup about that particular thing. Oh, absolutely. And your parents can absolutely. Yeah. I'm sure they. Had you been recruited to go to work anywhere. 

Now really, I want it to work. We'll actually add in a Beautiful Mind cotton mills and what your goal had been. That's right. 

And I had a job offer, but I want to work for a small company and for some reason, I was damaged by job in Thomas with joy, you're running a laundry dry cleaning plans of superintendent and he was going to expand and Tallahassee, you're gonna have a profit sharing plan. 

But I realized somewhere along the line within a year that that was not the feel for me because one, he did not expand. Number two, on Monday morning sometime I'd be up at four o'clock in the morning. Be sure the steam was on the ball. Tight junctions. 

So when someone depresses showed up, they had steam on those presses. And sometime you wanted to building painted on Saturday. Within a year, I left and went to work the full domain cotton mills. 

So you did come back and take that? 

I did. 

And what were your responsibilities? 

Just as industrial engineer, it was primarily at that time taking your time and motion studies in setting standards. In other words, how long does it take a personal so 50 bags. 

So how long does it take to do various tasks and the cotton mill and making everything more efficient? 

Well, more. Initially it was setting standards, in other words, so that there were people who paid on piecework. And so you set the time for standard operation. And if a person was over that, then they will get a bonus depending on how much over the standard. That was my first job in doing cost analysis. 

And then later foot of mine, cotton mills, I start scheduling the oblique tree equipment that was the machines it bleached out the cloth. We made very low-grade Eisenberg and cheating for bags. And by time you wash the cloth, There's not a lot of fabric left. 

The mode and the straw would kind of washed out with, with backfill it with various clays and one heavier, so full, so flour or sugar or other things we're not sift out of the bags. And then I start scheduling is inspection equipment and in the cotton mill. And then laid up. I was put in charge of the White House and had the other two operations. 

And in late I was scheduling all the equipment in the cotton mill, all the 2000s looms and working with the New York sales office and other out of the bag manufacturing plants as far as their requirements. 

So we know what to put the looms on for particular range of clients way up the ladder, right? 

Right. How many years were you there? 

But five years you've learned everything you need to know about. 

Well, I knew that the way they will go on there, we're not going to be in business long term, which was a very good thing for you to know. That's right. And so I was very fortunate extent that I got the Georgia Tech. John Bolton came out every week, every two weeks. 

And that would list maybe maybe four or five or 68 pages long and a little synopsis of the job it was available. And I noticed one from riches. And my wife at that time was working at Sears. And we've talked about I said, well, I'll just go get an interview. And so I got went to the interview and got the job. John. Let's go back and talk about ATO and your time there. We skipped ahead of ourselves. 

So when we started about your first job. 

So now let's go back to ATO in the last time when you lived on campus and how different your life might have been in the house. 

Help your social life was a big help because going back again to 43 when I joined ATL, that was my social life really so is dating and being a party's attorney. And then, I guess in early 40 for the o beta theta powerhouse became available. Hawk them Green, who was a ATO alumna, got the money together to buy that house for ATL. And so when I came back in 46, the house was there. And where was that house located? 

Its own forth and forth and follow maybe it's still there. I mean, it's all in the colon. That's right. Right. Right next to the SAE house. 

So I really pin it down. 

But I guess if attorney was my social life there because the parties on the weekend and dances and what have you and it was really the A great part of my life, both especially the last two years when I was living there. Because you got to know the people in attorney even better. It seemed more like the quote, I guess being in college rather than living at home. You there all the time. 

But even from 46 on, we did a lot of work and renovating fraternity house. 

Oh, you actually did hands-on work? 

We did hands-on and so-called downstairs was the initiation room, and it had a lot of different things in there that we had moved out of the pit, dug in and what had we fill that in and we put in the floor, partly the initiation. 

But in any event, we did we did a wiring and put cheat rockin pad murals painted on the wall, may lift it up. Oh, yeah. Very nice. Yeah. 

And again, back then we had house mother mother Rogers, who's a great lady, who I'm sure made us all behave a little bit better than we would've behaved. And if like today when they don't have house mother. 

But she cooked for you? 

Oh, no. No, We had a cook. 

So you came home from lunches and no. 

I think as I recall, I think our meals with primarily at night, there may have been lunch, but the nights I do remember line Tinder tables. 

So you were in a community where you were really getting to know people. We're eating, we're recreating with a really close relationship. It did. And the many close friends still, some living and some deceased. 

But it was a great poem my life at Georgia Tech Baldi, about the only activity I was in on the campus of the blueprint. And I work with ours can love is one of the blueprint staff. And what was your role? 

I think her hand no, no, not I think I was a gopher. And do that. Somebody had to do it. 

Well, I'm good at that kind of thing. Yeah. 

The Blueprint is such an important part, Georgia Tech because it's the snapshot of the history it is here. Yeah. And when we go back and look at it, we know what was going on at that time. 

So when you came back, did you work on it then or no. When I came back in 46. Yes. When you went to work for someone at time, right. 

And they've been 47, but I did work on the blueprint and remember very vividly, I worked with OS can love. Where was the offices for that then? 

Was it over it the way I think it was the author why? 

Yeah. The alumna present myeloma house. 

So you used to hang out over there to come for meetings, to talk about where I'm gonna do, right? 

Was it a dilemma then everybody get around, just talk and talk and talk about what they're gonna do in wait till the last minute and then do it. I don't recall that I would say that the method of operation well, I don't know. I don't remember that. 

I know we've met all the deadlines were supposed to meet with the technique there too, with that same laws. It was in fact almost it was it was the student activity bills. They'll focus on detail because again, they were not many buildings to speak of in the forties. Forty six, forty seven, forty eight. 

When you were there with the barbershop still there or had the barbershop move? 

Could have been in the robbery? 

Why? 

I'm asking? 

I'm not sure. I don't know. I know what had been there early in it. I don't recall. Moved. 

So it could have been you don't I do not remember. 

And brooms that you use for the rooms that now our offices for the Alumni Association? 

That's correct. 

So at that time, had the renovation been made with the stairs in the front? 

No. You still had serious like so by the end of the message. Thanks. 

So yeah. 

So you weren't down lives? 

That is correct. Yeah. It was a good hangout. They watch they had a pool table upstairs. That's right. Nice place. 

So it was a good place to hang out and they even had sockets in the ballroom, didn't they had what? 

Sockets, dances and things of that sort? 

I don't recall that fraternity men probably didn't. 

Well, we had a little dances and turn it dance and things like that. 

How did you meet girls then? 

Any problems with that or were they around? 

I know of some girls that I had known indicator as I was in high school, I dated and actually I met my first wife at an ATO party. And she was a lady by the name of Margaret Neale Penn, who was from Roanoke and Clearwater, Virginia. She was a graduate of Randolph Macon women's college. She laid over the next year after that, she went to Ohio State to get a masters in psychology. 

And I think I'm right here that she was the first female trainee that Sears Roebuck head in the Southeast. 

And actually after I met a fraternity house off, so I'll go through the training program because I was at that time working to credit department, the retail credit problem, Sears, Roebuck on ponce de limb. That was one of your part-time job? 

Well, my part-time job. 

So somebody else brought her to the ATO part? 

That is correct. I'd are there. At that time. Adam ponce de Leon, it broccoli. 

If there's a great big house at that time, it was a boarding house for women, professional women is about 50 of Olympic out. Wow. And Mr. Dashiell ran the operation. He was tough. You had to be handled girls in by 11 o'clock. They didn't get in as many bears a college. 

But that was in 49, I guess, and peg and I were married in 50. And so did she gave up her job to go with your down to the laundry? 

No. No, we did not. Merit after that. You got out of the way. Where do hedge a little adventurers got married. That's right. Then she went she went to Birmingham, is personnel director in that store. And then she went to another store up in Northern Alabama. 

And then after was selling an eyesore career, she was she was she's a brightly John was working over the Fulton male. That's right. 

That did not look too bright then I think I was making I think I've took home $46 a week at that particular time after taxes. 

So it was not a hopper. 

It in fact, I left Thomas will laundry dry cleaning and we're going to meet her parents and Thanksgiving or maybe it was in August. 

But anyway, I knew I had to have a job for well, I just had to have a job because he would know what it paid. I didn't have a job before I met her mother and daddy. 

And I did so I was raised I was I guess Huston didn't backfill main comp because they weren't going to be given. No, he wouldn't take he will look kindly on that. 

But the five-years you learned a lot of things. I did. I did. It was good. It was a good training and good people and I enjoy it. I really did. 

So we're back to where we started above. 

You saw the ad interestingly, in the Georgia Tech career, right? 

So I didn't even know we had a curb your bullets and adolescents who did something? 

George Griffin had had his hands and no doubt, yeah, I don't know when it started, but this would have been about 195455, I guess 54. And so I interviewed and the job was a service superintendents store for fashion. And actually we're trying to bring in some new people at riches for various jobs. 

And it's kind of like a development phase they wanted and they were interested in you because of your degree and your I wouldn't I wouldn't say that. 

I think they would just look for people who had a college background who may have been working and they thought might be a good candidate. 

So happen that the man who was in charge of the warehousing and full of mine cotton mills left to go to riches for the division services, food and tendons store for homes. 

And unbeknownst to me, he taken that job and I was being interviewed for the same job in store for fashion. And another guy came at the same time. You were interviewed by a tech man? 

Yes. After I'd gone to some other people. Yeah. Okay. 

So Mr. 

Newlyweds, what position at that time he be either chairman of the board, the chairman's exactly commitment. That was way up high, way up high. And they actually he would actually take his time to interview people coming in and he would. 

But that was a relatively small company back then. Yeah. 

Now this is talking about riches that was started by the rich family. That is correct. And they were gradually now expanding, right? 

What did you what did you think of Mr. Neely and what did Mr. newly think of you? 

Well, you must have liked me, heated blackball me. He gave you that gave you the phone, got the job. That's right. And you mentioned that we were chatting, that he actually remembered your grandfather. Oh, very well. Very well. Yeah. It was small enough with the company for him. The name and know your grandfather and coming back to full and buying cotton mills. I've interviewed I was interviewed by Joanne and Joe ashes. Wife was normally else's system. 

And there may have been some concern on the part of Joash And regarding Norman the way he was running the meal. He didn't he asked me questions about I said I'm sorry. I said I'll answer any question like that mustache. You better go see Mr. Norman. A little more savvy than that. Yeah. Yeah. 

So you guys a heads up and started a career that would end up being your really major career, right? 

Your life. That they put you through a training program? 

Yeah. We had about a two-week training program. That's very good. We went through every phase of store. We did some selling, worked in little mail on operation, returned to vendor, went to the White House. 

So we were pretty well grounded in the soil as a basic operations with hands-on. That's absolutely. That's right. 

And meanwhile, you and then you married you were married by this time, so you were establishing herself was married by that in fact, we had either one or two, true. And by that time, you were pretty well established. Lot of responsibility laws. 

So you had to dig in and I had a non-working outside wide working very hard inside and I think to children. And you took to riches. I did. You liked it, that was great. 

And how did your career develop? 

Their Lewis says about Richard, I think that back in the fifties and sixties that working enriches was like work at Coca-Cola is just a great company to work for a wonderful reputation, good people. And people want to know about return path or how do you make any money with their return policy. 

So it really was a one-off experience with a great group of people. Which isn't that time was a drawing point for all of Georgia with folks from laws would come out. 

You remember the holiday season spraying for spring clothes, Easter because holidays were big times for sales as such, right? 

What it was, but I think that they came all year round. 

The Nancy Hanks used to come from Savannah through Macon and pick up bringing and pickup ladies and we'd meet them at 130. 

But the term was Station, walk them all the stall and they'd shop has all my life. Tea room of a fashion show. Music will get him back on the train about five o'clock. 

Going back to making this available, you mean some of the management people ask Well, yeah, to welcome, you know, yeah. 

Well, my gosh. 

Now Southern hospitality. That's right. 

Well, they were important people. 

Well, isn't that interesting? 

I would say that that's really how riches was treating a catch, right? 

There wasn't important person to now. It was just a really interesting time. It was just straight because lady's dressed up to go shopping and absolutely. The tea room. Tell me about the tea room. That was that's where all the fashion shows withheld and Magnolia room to room. And had good food. Store of course was at five points. 

Well, one block away brought in Alabama. 

And you could walk from the train station? 

Well, yes, because actually be walking up right across spring straight from the terminal states across Spring Street. And you'd go into the back of the store for homes. They were shocking for everything and those things, yes. Mailers. 

But a great time. 

Now, did you have a lot of competition from packed with Davidson's Davidson? 

They will competition, but I say it, I think it's right that we were, by far the predominant store in Atlanta in the Southeast. People were coming from all over and say, Wow, That is correct. 

Afterwards, right? 

I hear any storage, I hear the stories or people are coming from Alabama work that right now because this was the Mecca or should I pause? 

The good old days? 

Well, they've all the good old days. There wasn't good. You really had your customer can bring back anything they want to. They could. And I'm told that people stretch that to the degree that so well, I'll give you one story. I hope it's not too long. I was in my office one day and somebody from furniture call and said Mr. 

So and so's all the walls returned his third heart a bit, and then we'll pretty expensive items come back. You had to throw them away because we couldn't resell them. 

So I went all the way in chat, it was a gentleman and as I want you to touch it and feel it and sit on and lay on and be sure that this is what you really want because this be a fourth and a bit, he said, okay. And about six months later they cause the Mr. So-and-so his back and he wants to select another hotbed. What all the untold us a. 

Well, you remember my last conversation. She said Yes, I said, Well, we're going to take this one back. 

But let me suggest you go someplace else. The bar the next one. And he said, Okay, well, about two days later, MR. deck call me and said that this happened, John. I said Yes, sir. He said, Don't ever make our customers unhappy. He says You take care of our customers. I see, yes, Actually, he did. He did. And I was really a firm believer after that in the policy. 

Well, that person was obviously using oh, yeah, that's right. Wow. I finally realized that say I was going to protect us. It was going to let him get away with it. Absolutely. 

Because he said, a customer who is unhappy will tell many people while the unhappy, a happy customer is not going to say while they're really happy, but they'll come back. 

So his belief was really word of mouth was important. Oh, yes. And it was because people really don't like to take merchandise back. I mean, even today you don't like it. 

But I think even more so back then. 

But if you make it easy for somebody, then you feel that much more couple of buying something and knowing that it's going to be a hassle when you bring it back. It really worked for him too, didn't it? 

It did. 

Now, I think I know the pause is changed then all stole because what the morality of the people today is not what it was. In the 40s or 50s and 60s, somebody would be using that are running around. I try. 

Now the richest was famous at that time for the pink pig, right? 

I know it was going to pay day of the fifties. I don't know, but you're right. It was I'd say yes because I remember the lighting the trees. 

There'd be a group of civic people and some obstacle Richards would sit on the roof of the basement basement store. We have coffee and donuts and what have you while the lighting and treated place. And I'd take my wife and children after that to the roof of the pink pigs door for home. 

And we'd ride a pink pig that was a lot easier for me to get my six foot four in a big, big but I did. 

But that was a great time with the kids. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. It really wasn't rich part of the history. It was and below, you know, had animals, ducks, geese. Cows, movie like cows, goats. Doing that particular zone. We read the time of the great department stores. They want. 

That's why stores they were every every major city had a really department store, no suburb stuff, but Troy. And it was an occasion to really the heyday for me. 

I think the first branch of riches was 19, I think 1961 way open Linux and Belvedere at the same time. 

But that almost diluted it then prior to that, it was just like Mr. 

Rich used to say, that we will never open it Brian stores, this is a flagship store, but he changed his mind as a smart people. 

If you don't make progress, they recommend. That's right. 

So he did change with Brian. Did you ever feel like you were friends with him? 

Friends? 

Oh, yes. 

Well, what was he like, Mr. Rich? 

Well, he was a very unique person. You could walk to this thing. You walk down the street with **** rich. And he was so distinguished look is one, he was kinda show up. Very short hair. And a great my stage and impeccably dressed and not being sacrilegious. You can hear somebody as they pass said, that was **** rich. And it's just kind of like you're walking down the street with God. I mean, he was just so high. 

But he was known because his picture being the paper and what have you. 

But he wasn't. He's a fun guy and he was a good merchant, and he was also very generous to the community. He was sure philanthropist. He was well the rich foundation and which did many great things back then and still going. I mean, it's separate today, but the rich foundation is still existed. 

So he had that sense of altruism towards he did, that he made his living room. 

And you know, the story of somewhere along the line when school out of school system couldn't make the payroll. 

I think they should script enriches case the script, which is an amazing story because the teachers didn't have to eating because he honored. 

And I think the story is true that somewhere along the line, cotton became a problem as far as, and they, they bought cotton or paid for the farmers for cotton until they could sell the cotton. 

So they were very thoughtful about the community and the customers. 

Now, one of the major things that happened in the sixties, of course, was integration, right? 

Well Rights Movement. We were right at the heart of it here in Atlanta. Enriches became the focal point for the Scythians and you arrive. 

How did he handle that? 

Well, I'd say, well, yes, I think that a lot of people were because it was horrendous change. 

But human beings don't like change it. That's right. 

But I think that they took a new enlightened approach when they said, Okay, we're going to integrate our food operations. 

But I can remember my office on the fifth floor with a band tuck, who's the General Superintendent now as a service, every time we'd have a call that, you know, there's people beginning to order to bridge. We go down to the bridge second floor and close it down. 

Well, they actually close close it down. And then after the policy, yes. 

So when those people quote, left, then we reopened again. And Lonnie King was one of the young Afro Americans who would show up and start the process. 

But we, looking back on it, it was almost ritualistic game you that Oh yeah, that's right. You do this a lot. Is that That's right. 

Until somebody where the business leaders got together and said, you know, we need to change what we're doing. 

And so I can remember very vividly though, people were selected to come and eat and the theorem, Afro-Americans, We're very well, we had no problems. 

I can remember very well the I guess you'd call them made at that time in needlework on the fifth floor, was chosen to be one of the first salespeople on the floor. 

So they were really implementing these integration policies, running the store? 

Oh, yeah, absolutely. And it went very well. 

And I don't think I'm sure there were some feelings on some of the employees part naturally, but we had no backlash met within the organization. 

So there never was any real rumble over it. What was the Ivan Allen, of course, was very strong, right? 

Yes. 

Commitment to the integration, right? 

Did you see that having an effect and all of you, his leadership wants a yes and a good friend of his, he wouldn't know what was going. Oh, yeah. 

Well, they would be heated, be part of it. 

And there's no doubt that rich and bronchi, who was at present, and Ivan Allen and other business leaders got together. And maybe Mr. William, I'm speculating. I don't know. I would say we need to change Mills Lane. What are we doing? 

This what we're going to do? 

Yeah. Yeah. 

And they they really did set the standards and when they realized that change was coming and accepted, That's right, everybody follows. Let's write much more civilized in a much more civilized manner. Although there was nonviolent for the most part here in Atlanta, as compared to Birmingham. No, no, no doubt about it. They handled it in a very civilized well, whatever the regrets. One other thing I want to ask you about was the wind costs. 

Were you living in Atlanta but I wanted to say was that 464046? 

I was living in indicator and I remember going home maybe from a data something and my mother that I heard on the radio, I don't think we had TV about the one called file. 

In fact, one of my fraternity brothers, Zach Smith, was involved in helping some people that that particular file yourself warned honestly, no. No. It's still stands. 

It does hotel know the history states and it just seems I just wondering what your take on it was because it was historic, heck of a shock, unbelievable. 

Now we move back to riches and you're building a career. Tell me the progression of that career. 

He started out I started out as a service Superintendent, which in fact had the service managers and they were in that time, they will quote the floor walk because you'd think you'd just customer service. Customer service. 

And their job was primarily to be sure the salespeople producing, selling properly dressed, nice customers, they have any exchange in which the merchandise may not, may have been defective or if it has been used, then the serviceman be called. If it's a brand new item coming back, no question. Right. 

But it's serviceman will come in the return on the credit. And I did that for you in a store for fashion. 

And then in January of the next year, I took over that same type of job for the stove homes and budgets tall, so I became them the service Superintendent for the whole store, including mail-order, telephone shopping, some other things. 

Now heel up position until about 19 63. 

And I went out to Cobb County to open our third brainstorm as a general manager of the Cobb County store. 

Riches open to more stores and 65 North Dakota north the cap shopping center and the one at green brown and I went out to green Brian to become the general manager of that store. 

Then about a year after that, more or less about 1968, the personnel director left and I'll shows me the personnel director, nanos human or human human resources or HR guy. And so I had that job and during that time we put a profit-sharing plan in and did some other things. Not that I was a leader, but I was involved in that particular situation. Then riches aside and go into the discount store business. And another thing that was the beginning and I was about 1969. The thing about Mr. 

Rich, He said, somewhere in the early sixties will never heavy discount store wasn't just like we were not going to have any branch. Right. 

And he'd come back from an AMC meeting in which date and Hudson's, Dayton's at that time started a chain by name of Target. And they reported about what happened at AMC meeting and he came back to, I will never do that. 

But anyway, 69 we started. 

I was chosen to be the operations type person and another man was chosen to be the merchandising parcel. And we opened our first two stores and March, I think, of 1970. 

And we did it a short period of time because we had a lot of support from riches, Alvin first through the tag, right? 

But a lot of work in real estate. We use some of the richest computer systems, payroll systems. 

So we had a lot of help to be removed that fast. Ridgway. There are no enrich way. I did that. How did that name come from? 

Well, it's rather interesting. Mr. 

Red, they used to be some airway stores which was part of the discount store of LSA as out of Indianapolis. And so we thought that rich way would be great because it gives them legitimacy. Used in Paula riches name. 

But Mr. Rich didn't like that. He said no, he said I want to separate. 

So we finally came up with arco, a richest company, ARC. 

And we start publishing, I mean, talking about in the press and follow along, we got a letter from the Atlantic rich field companies that we don t think that's a good idea. They, they should be touchy around there. 

So we went back to our publics, to people to try to develop a name that we thought would be good. We couldn't find something we thought would be as good as rich white. 

So Mr. Rich gave in and says, Okay, fine. 

So that's how we came to use the name rich boy. He took his dance but he was willing to be flexible, right? 

That's right. For you, right. 

So then Ridgway started to take off. How many ways? 

Well, in by 1986 we had 31 stores and we had stores in Georgia, atlanta, and Athens. We add stores and South Atlanta, Colombia three. We had four, and Charlotte, and we had six in South Florida. Hopefully, if you add those bus ones in Atlanta, it ought to be 31. I did not tell you how many when Atlanta you did not. And in 1986 where we were bought Richards was bought by federated. In 1976. 

In 1986, February decided to combine rich way with one of the other discount store chains known as go circle into one operating division. 

And the principles of chairman and president of the other division would give a response bit of combining the two. I could have gone to another division or principle or I can retire 60 years ago. And I said, Well, I don't have much money but I'll just retire now. And I did in 1986. He retired as the CEO of rich way. 

If rich way at that time, I think one of the interesting aside, how feel like Georgia Tech graduate was the CTO go circle. And this is before Federated borders. I scale if I could, I didn't know him. 

If I could come up and follow his store managers around because I'd run brainstorm, but never discount store. And he's very generous in his time. And then over the years he was very generous with his time. And Justin, he after that experience, went on to found the optimal. He did a very good job. Good man, had a good time what he did. Yeah, I think how has always had a good time. That's his personality that is. 

Now you've retired but you weren't going to just do nothing. While I was lucky to the extent that I was on some business boards and some non-profit boards. And I was able to go in some other business boards after that, which is somewhat unusual. And so it kept my ego up. 

You had established yourself firmly in this community called atlanta, and so you weren't demand to be well, I don't know about that, but you came back to Georgia Tech all along. 

You were constantly connected to tell how many positions of responsibility and leadership there? 

It was not like you were sitting around? 

No, no, I was, I was active and I really enjoyed working. I really enjoyed my experiment. And George Thomas will join him that year. And full of mine, cotton mills and riches. 

But I've also enjoyed your learning curve. 

But I've enjoyed being retired. 

But you were very involved. What retired for you isn't really sitting around. Oh, well, I wasn't making much money. You were sitting around now? 

Very, very involved in the community. Did did your parents were they involved in their community the same way? 

No. No, because it knows that they were not for that. Was it from Richard? 

I'd say it was from Richard. I really do. 

I think that giving them what they were doing, they went they felt and how they themselves did for the community. And I just kinda grew into it. No one told me to do this, whether it be United Way or Red Cross or something else. It's just kinda came out from the, I guess I enjoyed it. It was great role modeling for you. Imitate. They kept you very, very busy. They did. 

And then lo and behold, just when you thought you weren't going to be on a payroll, another opportunity presented itself. Tell me about that. 

Well, that was in 19 98 and the CEO of Holland had to be replaced. And my good fellow directors either couldn't or wouldn't take over the job as CEO. 

So I was selected and I was out there for about 11 months until we can find a new CEO. And a lot of fun turned out not to be a bad thing. 

Now there was some bad days, but she always asks you to answer them good and bad days. 

But overall, it was a fun experience. It was great group of people at hall and just tremendous. And I've been on the board since about 1972. 

Well, I knew a number of people at that time. I was living at St. 

Simons and when Larry prints Carl who was on the board, he said, By the way, John's as you know, we have a plane at hall and so you can fly back and forth on the weekends. We would pick you up on Monday morning, would fly back on Friday afternoon. And I said That's fine. 

So we agreed on salary other anyway, within the second week I was at Harvard and we saw that airplane because we're trying to change the culture of the company. Oh, my word. And so I was not very small extent then flying ASA back from Atlanta to Saint sample or Brunswick. Yeah. Much tougher commute. What it is, no doubt about that, but they'd been too much money spent in two different many areas. 

And I saw her there to economize and getting economize because we were going through some tough times and send a message to the company. Things are really changing. Pretty strong methods when you beat her on South. That's right. That's right. 

Well, I'll never was very small. Like it anyway. Anybody thinks that you make that sacrifice the head to know. It was, it was for real battle, typing. Right? 

And yet, looking back on it, now, that year was kinda fun. It was well, were you were ready to step down from an after a year? 

Oh, absolutely. Because the company was moving into other areas other than just checkpointing. And one is I was too old. And number two, I'd have the skills for that particular job. 

The man, Tim turf, who has a job today, is outstanding individual and is well-equipped to what they needed to do is hold the teller study. That was it. 

Well, the big thing was that we were implementing about, I think 30, $35 million, a new business that had been bought, literary, bought the year before by the old CEO below cost. And one was a very, very large account. 

If we're not implementing, implemented that business from a particular bank, Khalid probably would have gone bankrupt. And so that was a job to all we'll all we did was to focus on implementation. That we will not buy anything. We're not selling anything. We're going to implement that new business. And it was a very difficult job. 

But the people that have magnificent, I just show up for work and I'm doing well. We worked on it when he worked on it, but they were great. 

So you hardly were there. You were there a year and then you were retired again? 

Yes. Did it feel like you had too much time on your hand? 

No. You just picked up. Tell me about your commitments to Georgia Tech. There have been so many. 

Well, oh yeah. I wouldn't I wouldn't be doing it. Still wouldn't be doing it. 

Well, I'll tell you no. 

I think that may be what got me involved again at Georgia Tech was Alvin first enriches and he stopped me one day. 

So why don't you join the thousand plus club or some category? 

And I think that's what it was at that particular time. This would have been sometime but 1957, I'm guessing exactly. Right. And so I started doing that and I've felt a little put upon. 

But anytime I have to say Alvin, no. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, he's gonna do it. And so that started it. 

And then there was some type of formal session about some of the graduates coming back and spend a day, a day and a half on the campus. And I did that. 

But then when I really got involved, I think is when the centennial campaign started. And Jerry Yates and earth can love came to see me. Pretty convinced. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. And so I said yes. 

And I guess that's when I really got involved with tech because it toward the end of the campaign, as asked her to go on the foundation board. 

And that was a long series because you've served us at that time was the assistant treasurer for whatever time they wanted you to. And then Treasurer and then you moved up in the cheers. Cheers, right? 

Yeah. And that was a big commitment. Bob Forrest was at that time he was a treasure. 

Now they want to think about how we grew. He would come by the Foundation office once or twice a week in sign every check. 

Now sign the check is not too much over. He went and looked at the backup on every check. 

So he was being very careful, very careful, and very careful. While I would tell the people to look at the check and look at the backup paper. And if you didn't look right to let me know. 

And I went on the hill on, I guess five or six occasions and talk to the people and to better understand why they thought that should be paid. In some cases, we did not pay. 

So it was a hands-on opportunities. Right. 

But you couldn't do it today? 

Is too big today. The foundation, all the bills that go through. Yeah. Omega operation. It really is what it was powerful. When Earth didn't, love passed away. You and Charlie jumped into the fray. 

What Johnny Johnny jumped into this Friday and I just worked as one of the people I with Alvin forests and all the other people in the campaign cabinet. 

But it was all about being connected. Absolutely. Was, it was the networking at its finest. I tried people rallying to the cause and filling in the gaps and more money was raised. 

And anybody could possibly have imagined, you were hoping for what, a 100 million, we're always really weighs 200 million. Before it was all done in Canada, it was closer to 300 million. Okay. I know two or three years. Okay. 

So when it was actually a 100 years out, an amazing thing to not only devil, but almost triple. 

Well, we did that in the last campaign. We did it again. Yeah, we're pretty potent development. 

Well, with people, it's the tech people. That's right. It's the it's the tech people. It's also a good development staff. 

But Wayne club has done an outstanding job. 

Was that this current campaign and the current campaign we went from 300 million to 711 million, which is just mind-boggling, right? 

Not something that a person can do one of them wants for their lifetime and just about everything out of it. And, you know, we said 300 million that Mike Thomas. 

When we plant setting goals as we raised $700 million, he predicted, he did. 

At that time, he wrote on a little piece of paper $700 million and John state and sign it and asked signed it and it was a $5 bet that if B though it was or was not, and so I haven't campaign was over. We had that note that might give back to John state of myself and the five-dollar bills, two of them. It's a plaque in his home now, if you work that we had to pay him what he remembered mike doing it. Very nice and he's proud of that. He told me the other day at the football game is I've got that in my new home. And while he's all set up though, what a nice way to win. Yeah, it was so significant for Georgia Tech. You've certainly seen that campus grow fantastically your time. Definite boggle your mind to drive around it. It's unbelievable. Yeah. Could you have ever predicted when he got involved with it back then? 

No. No. In fact, I couldn't even predict. Four years ago when they started talking about Tech Square, they would turn out like it did. I mean, I was there. 

I remember very well Charlie Brown when he was president foundation, say we need to buy this land on 5th Street, don't know what we're going to use. 

Well, we really need it. He is. 

And he started buying at laying the foundation of his recommendation and then weighing clef and his people and foundation people just came up with the plane. Fantastic. It really does stagger here, max. That's right. As we've got, the buildings are opening and we're going and looking at them. We just couldn't see this. That's right, ma'am. Thank gathers people who can say visionaries. We need those. Tech has really come a long way from absolutely. We're 43. 

Well, that's all the way over there in space and every which way? 

Let's talk a little bit about your family. Okay. 

Well, I've got four children. And kit name is John cosmic kid is an attorney with Austin bird. And kid has three children and living in Atlanta. And then I have a daughter named Neil Payne, we call a pity. And that was my wife's nickname is penny a pen. 

But she went to Peggy most of the time. And pen is married to a doctor living away cross, and she's got three children also. Then I've got a son who's a god. His name his name is David. David dank. Dank being a family name. And David is a went to Davidson, then he went to Columbia Seminary. He was a minister church, and he came back to Colombia and got a degree in counseling. And now he is working with Bob Patel on his foundation. 

He and Nancy have two children, and then I've got a daughter by the name of Margaret Tatum, but unknown is a boy. 

She will kill me when Meg Meg and she works, McCurdy candle is a office manager, married to a school teacher. They have two children. The parent Atlanta then? 

Well, actually, yes. Actually, I should have mentioned David and Nancy. I mean, David David, Nancy, Megan, bill both live indicate them. And actually paying in our live indicate all our married life until 1990. And Meg actually lives on the same street that we had a house on it one time. 

And both of those shoe and David and makes sure on a going the same grammar school they went to indicate a Westchester. That's really what it is. 

So really you're lucky because only one of your families, of the four families. That's right away. Not too far away. For a while. Oh, wow. Yeah. A few years back he married again. I did. I met June again at the Georgia Tech function. 

So I'm indebted to Georgia Tech both for the my first job at riches and meeting Peggy, my first wife, my second wife. 

But June's husband had given someone at Georgia Tech and she had been invited to a development function to build a hotel. That first function, I think in the in a building. That's right. 

And so she called a friend of mine from the Cato who was a grammar school, high school Georgia Tech fraternity brother to take them because she lost from the keto at one time and you build wife who since died. 

So they went to this function and I was coming in from St. Simons and went to the same function and met June through Bill. 

And about 23 weeks later, about eight o'clock, I got a call from June and asked me if she asked me if I remember who she was. I saying you that good-looking, red head brain. 

And she said, Would you like to go the president's box for the Clemson game where I was early in the morning. And I said, Well, I just got back in town. I'm really committed for that particular weekend. Hello, give me a range check. She said, no, this is the only time I can go. 

So about five years later I went upstairs and selfies a cup of coffee and, you know, you kinda stupid. Peggy had been dead for about six months, I guess. 

And so I called her back that you know what, I've been able to rearrange my schedule application here. 

So I'll wait until I was filming. 

And so I went to the game and then we had dinner that night and saw the next day and just went from there. In fact, something rather interesting on a wall over there as a picture made in 1948. I think it was in the basement, know otherwise. 

The attorney house party and Bill Smith where I used a double date with within that picture with a girl and I was going through my memorabilia other day getting ready for Georgia Tech ATO reunion about six months ago, I came across that picture and I looked at and I says Kali. 

So I took it upstairs. I said June as issue anymore. And I'm in the same picture. And we said that we never remembered each other back then because she said she dated Bill Smith. I said Well, you know, I WA with Bill Smith all the time. I don't remember meeting you. 

So what it says is that we didn't make much of an impression on each other back in 1947. It took, it took about 50 years for that to Mela. Is that both of them at the same place? 

Yeah. Unbelievable to be. Yes. 

So she's a great gift from the universe to you. That's right. Good day. I'll have a grant to fund together. I'm blessed. Lucky. I've been lucky all my life. My parents, my brothers, my children, my grandchildren, my y's, my education, my jobs. I've been blessed. You have indeed. We've been blessed because you're sharing that story with us. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you for the opportunity. 

John, why do you give money to Georgia Tech? 

Because give you your very generous well, no doubt in my mind, and I'm obligated to the day when education. 

So you're paying back? 

Yes, ma'am. Way to go.