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>> This is a living history interview with Bill Bennett class 971 conducted by Marilyn summers on January the 23rd the years 2008 we're at the scene gallery in Decatur Georgia and the subject of the interview today his life in general his experiences at Georgia Tech Bill and I may call you that you know at least what a pleasure to be in your beautiful beautiful state laws are here and although the viewer will never see this we are in the gallery and just used to be Scottish Rite Children's Hospital that's correct and tell me what you said what year did it open it was 1999 and any opened that same year I was actually designed and the other read it was one of the below PREMIER It looks so good for the premier architects in Atlanta no doubt I don't like any of the many of the fan Georgian particular there is around the city and even though this building does not particularly looking Georgian in style it does have a lot of Georgian elements to it and where in the West Wing is rare in the West Wing which you said was once the boy this was the boy's Ward there's a submarine go must a do it go to this wing way that the other in which was the girl's words a wonderful a deposition because we know Scott's right moved on in the early eighty's and went somewhere else and here's this building now being used to display beautiful beautiful art you have about 30 artists there parroting supply you with all and it's as I say to that everybody can't be looking around like I'm looking around because it looks lovely Let's get to the story now tell me where you were born and when I'm a native Atlanta I was born in the old Piedmont Hospital which was believed in downtown Atlanta it was indeed a town and I said to my 14th one thing 14 then what were your mom and dad doing in Atlanta and my mother was a nurse she had come to Atlanta from south Georgia to to nursing school I went to a girl that she go to she went to Georgia bad.

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The talk about school of nursing right now and while she was here she met your father she met my father who was a police officer had C.N.N. born here in Atlanta he was a he's a native that man and several generations back on i'm sure how many it's been one of the things that I would like to do some time is research men and you know there are times in my spare time research I know where all your grandfather with my grandfather was a captain in the Atlanta Fire Department You have done and then your daddy was a bluff my of my father was a policeman now when you were what your earliest memory of it was I guess we might not earliest memory of it Lana per say it was going to riches or downtown anything hotdogs and I believe it was a McCrory's across the street.

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That's just my earliest memory that they remember how it's a very old and the 1st 34 years ago I can't I don't know you don't know you know I you know I would say a maybe a little older than that because I act remember being able to use a button for myself that is maybe 56 years old I would say you remember your father in his uniform Yes absolutely as matter of fact I remember he would YOU know which is probably not a good thing to do in today's world that he would come home and he would put his revolver up on the dresser and this note that he would get would ever dream of I connect up short.

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And so yes I have very vivid memories of my father in uniform and I just ran my grandfather died in $1050.00 which is a year after him even know he was a year after I was born you know so I didn't know this is not all my father said Did you know your grandmother knew my grandmother my grandmother lived into her ninety's and you did know her and knew her very well now you're in your maternal grandparents were down in south Georgia and I'm maternal grandparents were down.

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South Georgia. Quit and and kero they were not living together I don't know if they were officially divorced ever or not my grandmother my mother's mother was part Cherokee and part whenever that she was a very very. Stylish Southern Baptist of went through the one to 51 room church with the proverbial funeral home fans in the piers in front of you and my nose is there the memory of visiting with service she was very she was a fairly poor person.

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And money in worldly goods but she lived in a rambling house with a tin roof and my most vivid memory of those days visiting her was a kero which is a very very south Georgia is relate with visit her during the summers lying in awake at night with an oscillating fan and just waiting and hoping that fan would get back around to you saying.

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That was that high class that high I'm sure you know I'm sure that was well yeah I could imagine that if you made that very clear I can just imagine I thought you were going to tell me listening to the rain on the tin roof Well you know that is the word of a comforting Well yeah it is it's interesting thing that you should bring it up because we grew up in southwest Atlanta and we had 40 acres down around new to a creek and I had a pony so not exactly a city boy and even though you know one another well I don't think that was inkling 1st of the city back in those days it was never ever good side from downtown Atlanta riches and they riches from riches I guess from the south end to Macy's on the North End which with Davis and his date that night at that time that was all there was to it and everything outside of that area could because they're all there was no Lenox Square I remember when Lennie square this bill and you were would tell me you know if you know where your family's property was south it was in southwest Atlanta we live own Adams drive was just between IF and cascade heights for subject when can I get what I was actually just buying 40 acres that's a pretty good little parcel with a farm yet to now is that it was I would it he was a homeless.

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It was I waited so this is daddy went to work in the city during the day and then came home to my dad when I was glad to hear my father word Yeah my father worked day shift my mother was a private meeting nurse and worked that night shift so you had a mama that worked too which is rewriting for the right yeah very nice How many brothers and sisters I have one brother who was also he was he was in the brink or for some period of time given the older than your younger he's had for years overnight OK and his own was also in the fire department How interested I thought championship boy just had to do if you just read all my Yeah sure we did what we wanted and the reason I thought of that particular thing was you talked about the timber if I had a pony and Willie stapled up in the woods and her stable had a tin roof so I would often go up there and read when it was raining and how wonderful memory yeah and so that's that's the reason you brought me here back around to that part of my life is to you know that you may know you have a tricksy Tricksy a good name for a boy kind of an idyllic childhood for you that's like it was it was a good challenge and was it was you didn't go down that just Southern Now you mention your Southern grandma did you mention your father grandpa you did write you went right when you're well you know we visit him as well he anything could have been caught up with OK and he was he was a craftsman he did work they did a job with the post office but he retired from fast office and he had always done crafting woodworking were mostly wood he had so I was a collector and he had a little place that was I don't remember the one to the highway that went through cop with but he called it the wigwam.

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And he collected arrowheads and civil war a member of the house you know the truth and it just so he find the culprits our fossils if he was very funny give this here at least craft a satori and a switch up and. Bad Man what a great memory you know it recently bring these things up because generations now and future generations don't have these memories because not every race you know way from the nuclear family so it's nice that you have this so very nice childhood to regret it so.

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Did your grandmother ever take you to church in her one room only as that's all that was of that was required. So was it take you to church here with the church so that was had to look forward to other visit Well yes then you must to stay down there for a few days at a town where we would take a month off because of the when we had to we would take a month off and my mother was a private duty nurse and she was going to go to work to take the boy I just not take a case on him we would spend a month in South Georgia but all of her family her mother and her father and her brothers and sisters were also if they had lost their hands and I we would get away from this them out during this during the summer period.

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The worst time of year because of charges that were you know they are standing here but the 1st family now what about your grandmother in Atlanta your dad's mom where did she live she lived. Right in the city fellow chemists and wrote OK So you know from time to time we saw her you know we saw her for you frequently and very frequently and was she interesting like your other 2 great There is no issue she was not just a minute Otherwise you're just another sad nice lady.

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My Aunt Mary lived with there who was a very very interesting person and that we were actually closer to them than my grandmother let them. Marry Dad passed and I will be 5 or 6 years ago and he was married down Mary did Mary bit America where. But your grandmother says about grandmothers daughter daughter you know my father's sister and she took the role of caring for Grandmother after grandfather passed Yeah yeah yeah She lives with her and they're pretty much yeah we're going to I think all that happening now well where did you start school I started schooling when Southwest in my name was the 1st school I went to was cascade Heights cascaded on the tree and how did you feel about going to school off of school are you deaf like I like the sound maybe so when you know that you like to read yeah I know I was I always loved school it was this is it was a lot of fun for me that's good that's good to know you had teachers I had buyers I had very very good teachers.

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Especially after I get to have skill and you know my early childhood teachers I would go remembered that well I remember playing. Usually go somewhere along in elementary school somebody gets you the bug to read yeah you know or inspires you to pay attention to the written word and then acting Kerry was now at the time you were in Cascade high school was it Elementary to what 7th grade in the middle there was that was done in the 3 to 7 that we laugh we moved my mother died and when I was 13 I was in 1963 I guess that would have been and like to breed that year and so after she died we moved then the white flight and everything else started to happen around that same time so we moved from Southwest Atlanta due to the cap County and there was a pair of drastic new it was a pretty drastic will have to give up your PONY Yeah yeah yeah sure mama when you yeah yeah yeah so yeah it was a firmly traumatic period of my time for me and as a change schools changed.

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And so I ended up going to. Kimberley Elementary which is where which is right over here off was off the Boca Krista Yes So this area this area has the say here of the camp and down there was a junior level of interest for the elementary school and I was the next part of the lead up and then I went to Walker High School where you didn't have the traditional No where did I ever say we went directly from the 7th grade to a writer by that interestingly enough Walker at that time was a new school and so in order for it and that and that point that kept Candy had to be the school system in the country.

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But the I'm a new school wanker I mean when the 1st year from 8th grade me great tits great so I was. No I actually DID WE were the 1st graduating class from that Haskell Says they keep adding me like the daddy in a year we want to live and it was so my flesh will grow to it's now on the lines of I believe this is nothing now so where did the camp follower of the promise of 11 years a school there was no 12th grade Now we did have a 2 did have a 25 have come here had 891011 didn't write it 5 years from high school right and you enjoyed high school and you're a member of that there were all the teachers there all yeah I loved the house because America fact it was it was in high school when people finally got a mission earlier on to prove it we started that you have a D D that one of the teachers recognized that that was a little bit different than those kids in that really it was a much smarter than people thought much of.

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Which we got very good jobs going to burning with Miss Anderson and here you graft if there was somebody who had had inspired a lot of 10 points for me and then my life and yes protecting the academics and then lecture me in that in that letter that would have been her it's wonderful that that number heard again.

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Because so many people can't put their finger on who it was let's grant that she noticed that maybe you were smarter then you were generally you know parents not yet and then when you were cut up were you playing all the time. And the were trying to I was just not paying attention.

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Because it was that easy to do it was not it was very difficult to do because you were mostly through gathered around the fact that I had written a look in the that the wind yes. And so she was detected that there was some villainy that wasn't being exercised right then but actually looked at my test scores and isn't that interesting and you had of course have done very well yes but the ability to say just what would she have brought this to your father's attention that she pursues the school's decision OK And then that would have to then you know you my father was a prisoner was not.

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The. There's an old school paradigm you know that I'm a parent my mother my mother was really the one who pushed education then who took an active role and let her die and let me so yeah yeah I'm a lot about learning about the maternal overlooking and it was very typical of the times we didn't have hands on dad so much back right exactly didn't know what to do yet.

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The kids you know I had to think age boy that way because I'd rather was 17 at the day and I thought you guys gave him a run for is well we had that we had our moments. There anything your brother didn't think they're doing you did I think probably pretty much I'm with all their mates you know we really my brother and I are very different that I'm the same but the same token we are brothers and we never want to similarities so we get a similar type situation yeah Were you ever involved in athletics of school play football and wrestling Yes OK So that was good healthy stuff yeah yeah and then Mr Anderson noticed that you were really quite bright is that you just needed a little more focus or more stimulation right now in those days they didn't rush to walk to a pediatrician put you at red lights no no no no they was no such there was you know so I actually had more from you where I was at that time with the camp Candy I don't know what the classes are arranged now but there was essentially 3 levels 123 with the very dirty bridge be and then Level one in the overachievers the level 3 I was on level 2 OK you know it's a medium you know it's in then you know after after that point in my life that's beginning to take hold that level 3 classes more in other words more you have new that you needed to have challenge right exactly exactly what help is of the really important for your future It's absolutely I mean I think that I would never imagine that I would get a Georgia Tech that had never crossed that branch that probably that had that had not happened.

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The simple fact know is that all this is a honor to us so when she called your attention to all this and you found out you could be curious and challenged by learning you did better that yeah definitely get better you liked today we call him A.P. classes they have Yeah yeah they didn't have a peep last you dare leave a child you haven't timed out even gifted there was just one love 1133 we did have the Beta Club in the National Honor Society both of which I was members of but you know been my junior and senior years and so that was the only real academic recognition you got me here there was no A.P. classes to this in that of caf That was your 1st semester for 1st quarter and what was it like growing up in Atlanta at that time you know I'm more akin to divert the later years your teenage years my teenage years.

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What did you have to do what was there for entertaining drag racing OK we'll see now I want to. So that's a drag racing with a drag racing after school people go over to different areas around town and you know people would have your $57.00 Chevrolets and people would drag race.

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That we're not talking about officially sanctioned right now we're not talking about we're just fun things to just have and I know well my brother and I shared a car that's good and I mean it was a $57.00 shit happens to be a city have to live 7 ships or so and that you could be found over there what else could you get to just go to the movies that we would to movies that you know there is only 4 movies for theaters in town there are a lot of grammars the Fox or the Roxy in the reality that was it and the starlight.

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Drive that Niagara light was driving with with Miss awfully up with the drive and that would you would that have been a date saying yeah that's a little movies Yeah yeah I don't know what else that don't mean you know it well the old you have video game who would watch the little bit of T.V. not I'm not allowed to see what the support Johnny Carson was important I was late at night you said that much well yeah this is I mean Carson was important but when you look back at that time Bill does it seem like you had a happy coming up time but my teenage years were tough my teenage years were were fairly tough for me without having your mom and dad just being the welder by you yeah and so I worry I didn't come around amok in them is a lot of ways and then Academically I was pretty you would said Do you ever get the size of your you know personally I don't know if I'm a father of 3 remarried in that time and I have decided to step brother his name was Jerry and I don't know if I can say it last night that was I Jerry Creasy and jury an hour for a class well that's good that was yeah I think that we're in the same class we're very different.

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This for academics around cerned and he was more of a jock and he had still got to be friends yeah he had a rock N roll band How can that yeah so we've seen. So they go just to play it like Spidey I don't know if you mean I think like batting may still be around but they're just kind of places universities really and so they would play it likes badly play it different functions around town and around the state and so I travel along with them and the group Phoebus become a group they want to handle all their stay and I want to know very much that I know the Quitman help them out with them the band you remember it was a rough routers Roughriders Yeah rock'n'roll Roughrider rock N roll Rock N Roll a lot of our big big thing to have in our own little time of your growing is we have to get it there James Brown so I can't remember his name I wish I could remember his name but he was right it was all about him there's a lot of Motown down here and.

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You know that those are those are fun times and that was the good part of being if you know you know I was it was really a teenager was with was was tough and that was my brother and I did that kind of him for ourselves and then my step brother now you know even after my father remarried that was when the junior and senior year in and I was there so you know it was it was pretty much I guess maybe sophomore as well and so things were pretty much set by that.

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When you start thinking about going to concerts. Probably have to follow my signature here and how much you know every day but I thought I'd never really got I thought lonely that I knew that I was going to go to college you do you know you work out yeah yeah I knew I was going to going down there now that I was.

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Well even the dad wasn't pushing Yes I was that this is going to come back to your mother in front of my mother carried me through the wood there was never a question in my mind that he was going to come out there we go to cut case so your senior year rolls around and of course how much help to get from school and they say we ought to be applying I have a counsellor you know I don't remember you don't I don't recall I think it was all on my own and apply just to schools I applied Auburn University and perhaps Georgia Tech OK and had waited to see if somebody was taken away to see what was happening plaid I think at that time you did and probably still you have to put in what you plan on majoring in that was usually the African Yeah so at that time I was playing a major in that I don't live for his early on of course you're all space engineer on having to do with there and there was not a quick generic very popular very pop during that time that was during right but during the space race.

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Yeah so you're going to do what every other American boy is going to go you're going to go to school and you're gonna learn how to put a rocket in the Moon Yeah exactly that that's right make it that's what. You probably wrote away you probably sent. Gave them permission to get your try and you had to send an application by mail clues that don't mean very definite nail right OK so.

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Just accepted by both schools the NGOs excepted the best living comes the critical decision how am I going to decision there's a lot less expensive to go to Georgia Tech if you have all been announced grew up going to Georgia Tech every Thanksgiving my father would take us to the Georgia Tech Georgia freshman football game which was it.

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Says God is right was connected the guy was right was that's right now that's right back to right the Brestovac that was the flying leg so you're right yeah there were the football players don't dedicate all of our the risk the monies that were not in from that day to that his.

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Right yeah exactly now one of my strongest memories growing up was going to that game was every Thanksgiving Day And you know that was when freshmen didn't play other than freshman ball right they played freshman ball there was no there was nothing so far as so then here you are Grant feel that least once a year yes more so you're familiar with the my father what the boys had which was great as I was just now Grady Absolutely and that's actually so and it was a big feeder school for Georgia Tech Yeah so so do you regret ask him if he was going to help you pay for an arm like that well month with my mother having worked and you know dined when I was 13 and I get the last I get this is security checked every month so you could pay PATRICK So I paid for it myself and I worked as a he didn't have to say here Dad I really want to go to college are you going to help me you know I did it yourself yeah and yeah and I worked at riches.

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For measure you know that you know I got accepted that OK this even though you're only what 18 years old you know you're just really 717 and you're smart enough to know that this is the practical thing for me to do that so you know I'm not going away to college but but you had enough money to stay in a dorm live on the campus so it's kind of like you know in the work I worked at risk.

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And there if well let's talk let's talk about when you 1st heard that some are actually going to high school you know you're going to by that time you knew you're going right yes OK is that when you went looking for your 1st job I worked out and I worked through our assets the I.R.S. What are you doing to them open mail really are open demand just that they're opening mail now I can i didn't use as you were growing up as spect you had any number of jobs over and you know I was a part of just the wrong you know because part of growing up more lines of work to buy off my house for a period of time is just something your dad would have expected you do everybody gets to do here is out there now that we're under so when you got to tack you moved into.

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I believe her parents store here are some OK so you're going to have a whole different experience right exactly you know you're smart because they already told you you're smart you have to done well on the exams or any and course at that period in time what year was that when you came to 6th year graduate from high school in 67 so I would say all the 67 OK in 107th nobody really cared too much wester.

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I mean they did everybody and then it was survival of the you know that was the method that we did yeah or pretty much so you might have been prepared with fact you probably were paired because you were in a level 3 class well I was not the parent.

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I was I was not appropriate I don't know if I was. I think I was prepared academically but I was not prepared to mostly or social well and that would be a big case and that's what kills a lot of people yes yes and the ability to be able to focus and really study I mean calving the Smarts isn't good enough if you don't apply the right right so I want to take you to figure that one out 1st quarter 1st quarter.

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Chemistry I think somebody just. Expected more than you could deliver and they also have a tough time tactic was more used that it was a much healthier sacrifice easy for me and they seem to prize themselves on the fact that it was going to be difficult because they wanted to only have the smartest of the SMART Yeah you know and things and I don't want to get off track the things have changed.

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I don't think that philosophy has changed over mono but it's still just as hard as it ever was but Fraser to help more yes to help a lot more help things they have that is so expensive to get to have someone matriculate into the system now we don't want him to go away where the old attrition rate was you know to surge look at the left look to your right that is that no no no we don't do that anymore it's not the act but the economical now and it's so hard to get in now that those that are there really really have to work there but with that haven't changed but a nurturing to nurse has come we had no touching it your time it's that one of their dreams and had none at all and the world was kind of a crazy place because we survived the Korean conflict somewhat that we had Vietnam we are right in the middle of Vietnam where we had a hippie movement 29 then or some places than others not much going on it was never much going that Georgia Tech that there was apparently Ramsey's or between 10 and 14 streets they had melted ice actually as a result tremendous he said so the rest of the of we'll just.

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Action available to you should you be happy that you know this this is distracting you never get nicely and let's put in an very nicely and you know Martin Luther King was a cowshed assassinated during that period that 60 now 60 I don't know I've got I would have said what I know Kennedy was assassinated what 6465 in there yeah yeah 63 or 64 or 65 so 5 years later because we did why was it Georgia Tech we went there remember prayers with him at the funeral Well let's talk 1st about that 1st quarter of chemistry gotcha chemistry again.

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And all of a sudden you weren't making that I got a call of the son and I was at the top person in the class shopping and it was so terribly shocking thing you know like turn that way a good day these people come that are big fish and little ponds and come to the big pond and they're there and that we're big fish in a war it's pretty scary you know it was very very sick and we're confident Well you know I don't think there's a loss of confidence and yet another you know I don't think I ever knew I was going to make it through is just how the net take it apart and see if I knew it was about to take a walk and then what about roommate did you draw a good roommate lived actually lived in a room with it was the 2 it was of kind of a suite in a way that I would have for free what about OK well this can be good and it could be all my roommates were of always had very very good with so that was good that turned out yeah a good thing most of whom I'm still with one of whom I'm just very dear friend Jonathan and you know and that's something people forget are or don't realize when they come from what colleges it's where you do make some of the best friends that love or have in your life you know because everybody's going through metamorphosis when they're in it and enter into better life that you know the pressures they're so the end of the 1st quarter how did your grades.

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A different after repeated anything I put it that was that was what I was then I have better not. Well that's what makes for a good movie visit and I think you were specially labeled a survivor OK I was never really going to make it I was with the right all of the 3 roommates make it to identify them all 3 in the room I wound that's great for a few when you were you know there for the 2nd quarter and it's my 1st we were there most of us were there through up with you throughout the year wonderful you really did luck out yeah when I did you take part in activities on the campus and it's a good football game with the flow of course we'll let the football basketball band where they at that time.

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Well Bobby Donna just retired when that storm so that was pretty pretty rough Yeah we sat around with another mine owner the worst game I remember as Notre Dame beating this I think the final score is about that's 72. Or something of a love affair as it never went to sleep humiliating complete Emily Asia and then Notre Dame at that time was ranked 1st or 2nd they don't they're not they're not let out bin Laden that that there are such they're not very kind it was not very kind at all and people were throwing things at them.

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You know well I heard about that I think that yeah got written up in the book I have to think probably so there were there were there were some minor by today's standards minor rebellions going on yeah you know women were already there not in critical mass so but time you laughed I think it was 70 or 71 that there were not there to say you know we'll my men there were so much made up for one of the women that I went to high school with.

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Actually Katie Kathy had Adams as her last name I think a 1st name of them since she was one of the cheerleaders That's never been a true leader in high school and of course that then we had to read to the dance team they were. High school look I had some were No I think there were at school so I think they were professional dancers Yeah wow I didn't even know that they were you know they were.

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Quite a lot of fun if you got that in your look at because of course most of the interviews we've done of all the 100 we've done has been older people because you're afraid of losing them you know we're just now been there you know to sixty's and seventy's folks yes on my is familiar with that history as I am with the early days but I don't 1st time start seeing little bit of rebellions I mean there's a little bit of drug use on the camp is a little bit along here there's a look at that and you know whole lot not kosher.

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But if you wanted to get into that you could find it if you don't you know I had none of it and I think of that. Most of my contemporaries marijuana. Some use the other by not going to marijuana was a very prevalent there was a lot of.

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Back Talk and the technique Yeah I probably was slower trying to be coy Yeah. But the bottom line is if you're not going to be there if you don't do the work that's right there was always a bottom line though there was a space vs chapter that had to pick the women of the.

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House or face down time we don't know. And we also had on the campus Well 61 African-Americans integrated to the campus and by 67 when you came in there were 5 maybe him you know yeah I will say I can't remember if that was an example of how the seventy's but there were enough there you brought up the King assassination there is a there were enough of them there so that there was some meaningful.

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You know I think at that time you know during that that part of the sixty's everybody was there everybody seemed to be there to be much more socially aware that I think yeah you are satisfied with the civil rights we're still right now and human rights everybody you know it's more open minded to everyone else so it was it had its ups and downs that time.

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You know everybody felt that for instance we had African-American musicians around the camp My God it's a camp that at times I was like that it would have been definitely a no no I was very little Richard I was yeah Richard there. Janis Joplin was there one time with so Janice We got a pretty good I have to have very good very good concerts no doubt I'm going to have a concert Peter Paul and Mary.

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Mamas and The Papas we have some very good concert out there on legends then and I'll see that around legends I don't know if they were legends one thing I have that is they were genuine up into the sixty's it was all the big band sounds and all that now it's like the stress and everything that came that was our claim to fame and then as we know it you know got into the middle sixty's and we became much more edgy much more down hearted when the world was changing on Elvis Presley came to the Fox dept there was no you know you were right downtown it well they called it midtown but I mean really down there was downtown yeah you're right there Isn't it was going down there and pretty exciting time and yet you had to come back to that dorm room and know you were going well we had a good mix going room and study and pull all nighters and we went to do what we did yeah when did you make your mind up that it wasn't going to be engineering after all what was shortly into my freshman year.

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That it wasn't because of any experience that I had that actually that there was space industry started for. On the part really started falling apart if you weren't a practical young man you are going to make a living doing that and for my physics Well physics at that time would give you the opportunity.

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You have a lot of available elects. So you were able to take a lot of electives outside of the physics department. To broaden your to broaden your educational and your experience and your scientific knowledge and so I was able to take it like these in mechanical engineering or civil engineering and make yourself very well I would think that it was a very very fine opportunity to become well rounded but the core courses in there were killers physics of course Absolutely nobody knew when they don't want to call that what separates me because I get that for but I guess maybe if you had to spend so much time studying the quantum physics you're thermoses accts that has Excel and maybe what you deserve to have a little bit of something if you go to the center engineering courses which were not easy either not imperatively speaking it with the Bradley speaking for instance the Kerry camp or any professors from that time through the adapter would receive.

[00:37:23]
Astronomy and I think maybe electronics at that than Dr Woodward the kid comes to mind because that's what he said he was a very enjoyable lecturer everybody loved his classes they liked to fuss Remember am more practical in nature than a lot of the physics of physics department at that time could I VERY see a rant was a very theoretical very theoretical so he was doing the more fun because he was doing the front part that's great and in story that whenever his name because so many of them just you know they were you know this is this morning some of these names are just coming back exams and they're speaking with you yes and I'm so glad that that it's because what we want to do is make those thoughts come back to you there were some characters on the campus at times I've done had retired but he still have very much yeah yeah so you would have seen him walking across Yeah it's not that we had George Griffin who there was a British higher Dean and Dean Del had come around but I had a few experience with Dane did you yeah I can't remember exactly what the circumstances.

[00:38:28]
But I was in his office let your guard. It with the army he was an easy touch sometimes you know you will you give me good advice I've got so many fun nicknames that you guys called him as I've interviewed people you know when I can't remember any you don't never dull the pain the holding in our head you know I don't remember Jed for sure a lot right actually dull day perhaps perhaps it's only because it's such a natural yes it's to college yet for his initials but they made it sound like he was that Jed like it was you know example that something like that you know so but he was he was trying to stay on top of all you've got you know you know you're in a was I don't recall really while I was in his office I remember standing outside a little bit and pacing and I'm not don't remember really didn't come with to be on or no it was not to be.

[00:39:23]
Deemed on with the day to spew that Santana you know to the Dean's List is a wonderful thing but not necessarily bad and not necessarily bad and then I do remember he gave me some wonderful advice which extends my memory at the time but also you know they give it tell me I did I didn't it did shake me up a little bit was good he'd like to know that now that he actually somebody every 2nd thought of what he said he'd be happy you know that when did you start to really like going to school.

[00:39:52]
It was so hard the 1st 2 quarters but then did you get the hang of what I've always enjoyed school and there were certain only certain courses that I enjoyed and I know you enjoyed the students or got into the social experience and became. Very good friends with people you know and attending the hope college experience was always very fine with me academically there was always one or series of 2 places a semester or a quarter that I could get into and everything else just sort of see me kind of purpose a perfectly OK So you know it's it's it could.

[00:40:28]
Be understandable that maybe English didn't appeal to you that much or I think you're going to your family's enjoyed English and history you know I was wondering if appealed to you would not have appealed to me and those that I really had problems with enjoyed quantum physics there were physics for some reason just gave me fish and I think it was in your I think it was a vector calculus that Riz really just really threw at me off the things were changing into with technology in that you guys had calculators and what else now now yes now we have slanderous You still use your slide up there you slide the 60s the late sixties Yeah we started there was no cure no calculators 1st got the waiter I remember using was when after I went into the service the 1st you know it really cackling at the end of the sixty's if they did we weren't allowed to use it's very possible I think we weren't allowed to use and they might do it the way you had a sling your cycle around yeah we were more about and so you were still one of his guys can get Wow.

[00:41:31]
What was your social life like did you date a lot when you are in college so you had a pretty good reason we dated Agnus got women now and the nurses all right you know when we take some of the nurses that they didn't nurses it to were bad just that dated her with a lot of us David Duerson Yeah I think that was part of the thing and that the the modeling skill Massey I hadn't heard about that yeah there was a modeling school here really messing mom with mathematics going that yeah I think anybody can know what about places to go eat what would have been a popular Well of course of our city and we usually just went to the Varsity hung out the Parsi Mesley when we went off campus would get up to maybe go have a laugh for a while fly off at that time that was on the street none of us had cars.

[00:42:23]
The least my 1st 2 years I was 16 years some of us had countries and we be able to get out and but as you drive around but you must think you're just I mean years. Juniors of course yet to them Yeah yeah we've done it we wouldn't you know take take take They're not like yeah but if you had a date night with Phil Green still around the 2 greens are still around about Harry stakeout Harry just around.

[00:42:50]
The time some of the. The what's the big store chain of restaurants that we have here in town now the French that there's one it. County Square. It's a pretty passport to spot great appeal if you have to run international That's not who I sounded like at the peak that's a very popular place to tell me I was there that's right.

[00:43:16]
But there was a there wasn't a big chain that you would go to for anyone to change it so you don't mean the peasants at the present restaurant are the 1st the 1st signs that restaurant was on Spring Street I think just right after the speech I believe this room was located in the back to be a date night and that was the date night thing and then there was a steak out there grumpy much there was a bunch of red red cars put together I can't thank all of them you may know that and read up a cabin by a friend I was different and I am thinking the cabin was different this was a good subjects they brought in some bright red cars and just you know there's a kind of a many things and put them together and remember something like that and so we would go there a lot and there was a the numbers coach and 6 people but yeah and to.

[00:44:05]
70 you know 26 straight yeah right or it out right in there yeah yeah just because one plays a place to get the middle and pitch the match in there was a match and it was on the outs and yeah and then your cavern managers or you could have a lot of places you know we had a little more of a push to get them out of the passage of the Rams a lot of them just within walking distance you know we really didn't need to be and that's what I never thought of them and when she had mastered the fact that we were to have to study we couldn't negotiate it any other way you got your hang of it and did you enjoy those years hard during those years tremendously yet I don't know you got my wife about why Stern is you know you met and during that cash where did you meet her 2nd Scott she's a Scottie.

[00:44:46]
And I always heard in the earlier times as I said older folks that the Scotties had to go to bed too early or they had curfew too early what was the curfew when you're in my house to sleep for 12 I want to call it with money later that you know that you know I have to have been there by 10 o'clock I was late and they would have been killed or sometimes the children.

[00:45:05]
The place to get around that yeah so you know there were curfews that there were curfews you made it for years yeah I made it for years which is you know today they don't even smoke to bring try that you made in 4 years with the really difficult heavy Yes you know and the one thing that was inevitable was you had military duty to look at I mean what never got across the board everybody where it was not quite across the board because in 1619.

[00:45:37]
Up until that time pretty much it was pretty much across the board but you know there were people that could get out of it in one way or another in 1959 they had the 1st lottery. Painters address but you know and how did you draw from number one no they drew 1st days out that you would not have is Afton 14th was the 1st birthday draw on.

[00:46:02]
So I had a collapse before the bears. Were you know I guess you know if you're not looking back over this is good for me but because you know exactly what was going to that you were going to happen now and I think we've seen alive we stop having obligatory arrow to see Program right so you didn't come in on an hour to see an hour for did you take our 0 to $4.00 and never never never took another you were from that 1st group that were just totally non obligated Exactly so you had but but but but because you had the bad luck you were going I was going to they tell you which branch you were going to have any option and then you know we only people drafting.

[00:46:46]
Was primarily Dolly the Marine Corps did go through it there was a period of time where the Marine Corps were drafting but not your period that I'm not sure it might have been in the thing is that sort of like at least you knew what you had coming but you sir couldn't plan too much because you know you had well that's reason why I was in there for 3 years as I ended up an enlisted did you because of the inevitable and because you could pick and choose that.

[00:47:14]
There's a story about that I want to know that story and I want to go back and talk to about M.L.K. OK Greg. Bill I want to get back to the King assassination we had talked about that just briefly before I want to explore that a bit more with you and nationally when it happened the school didn't react they were not going to do anything and they were not going to do anything that as I recall wondering whether they should because yes that was a big issue and I asked the students to leave and at least I know I think we did was and they did suggest that the students may want to leave with that then Atlanta with the D.N.A. in the south with the funeral being here there was something concerned about civil unrest at that time OK So you were aware of it yes you chose to go we stayed on campus is stayed there we stay on campus we went to the funeral if you have any recollection of that I'll have to F.N. aggressive that.

[00:48:19]
Grassley has that effort to go after one of the tell me what you remember. Mark remember says where it was a very peaceful town that was not you didn't feel any type of hostility even though we were white there were many many many white people down around the white community was present and there was a black and white community was very present and because I think part of that is you have to remember when this was an it was during a period when there was a great deal of unity at least among college stage pianos so the feeling was that they were justified they had rights Yeah there was no way in Texas although there was an event that there was no civil justice there was no sense of hostility or no sense of rest in it at all that I could see.

[00:49:14]
So you did go with your friends with their family friends and they they ended up closing the school writes and there have been some mixed comments I've heard stories both ways that you know somebody had to force Georgia Tech to make that decision and other folks saying no no no they were always going to do the right thing but as far as the campus is concerned it was a non-issue you didn't sense any at midnight already and it's been much the whole city the host city pretty much shut down and how did you feel about the assassination were you horrified by it I think everybody was horrified that you know had any sense of social justice or any sense of equality which was very much a part of our culture at that time I think you know people were very hard I've lived in the north at that time so I did not you know I didn't have the Southern experience for it but but my my belief was this the campuses were very supportive of the movement you know where you know if you're just there has always been a friendly conserve even a very conservative and you know if you want to put a label on it but at the same time I always felt the sense of community there and that they were very much a part of the community around them and so even though you know the conservatism was there it was not it was it was not expressed in a way that was anti-social are not sympathetic to those causes that were being explored at that time so what Dr Harrison who was the president on tech at that time was just really an ordinary guy he was a really nice guy.

[00:51:00]
And was from the north so he you know he. Led Georgia Tech towards integration because it was for Right Thing To Do Right exactly and if not now when I'm in of course this is going to happen it was very peaceful. I had a chance to talk to him before he passed away and that's a time and he looked back at that time very fondly.

[00:51:23]
And was so pushing upon it was a well engineered and aggressive should Yeah as I think so we go we know was there that was the integration really came after I left that where the critical number is King Yeah the bad times you got there we already had some black graduates you know they know they had they had made their mark and it was just a slow process of getting people who were qualified enough to make that adjustment of culture and maturity and all the things you were worried about were going recently enough mark my roommates for the most part during that period were from the north my very best friend was from New York City.

[00:52:03]
That their father was from Maryland and a whole different ad Rochebrune job that. We had won a few roommates who were from the power from the south and they you know your your your ideals your thoughts to integrate with the each other when you're Remember when you're so close together and and so I am so you know it's interesting because when the 1st blacks integrated the dorms there was a terrible outcry there and you know what they did they pick somebody from New York to Rome with that it was perfect that's could care less is I so you know it's just all a matter of bringing up still in all it what it was a challenging time for Atlanta for the South where Dr King was assassinated and then life goes on you know very pick up the pieces and so build him went forward and.

[00:52:55]
You we've already talked affect you drew number one which just seems incredible that of all the people you know I was there as we have been out that. Evening and you know the whole lottery been held as we get back out on that maybe 50 birthdays I didn't know at that time with the ones previously picked were so they got up to like 250 or so and I was feeling pretty good about things and then after the fact they went back through the numbers a welcome.

[00:53:25]
There I am here I hope you know that when you start thinking about maybe I should enlist when I started thinking about enlisting when my 2 S. to firm and start running that you were only allowed 4 years. That's all you were allowed so much to asked affirm it because I graduated one quarter I was there one extra quarter the summer quarter now 2 extra quarters I graduated in the winter of $71.00 OK so if there are 2 extra quarters I want some a quarter and then false quarter of night and sending one so I was just past my.

[00:54:02]
Deferment period they had rejected reclassified me and that summer from 2 S. which is a student deferment to want to which is by the bye bye. Appeal of the pill the classification. Went before the draft board of course they denied it and but by that time I was willing to follow quarter and we're going to be able to finish up but not really they said OK dude we don't know if you will be both a ship or not we might think you they were pretty blunt about it yeah and A So women outnumber exactly what the timing was a bit in a case.

[00:54:43]
In order to finish make sure I finished up my degree before I had to go to Fort Knox. I went ahead and listed No of course you take a test and they decide what your best suited for and blah blah blah and at that time the recruiter taught me into him a western military occupational specialty of the school because I had a physics background with some of the electronics mag out of this cover radio relay attend.

[00:55:13]
Radio Relay and basically what it was at that time there were no satellites or were no you know transmissions from people in the field couldn't go through mountains it still was you had to have some type of relationship on top of hills and know if there were some 1st down here up there and now back down again that's what these people specially what is just signing them you know Manning naming them manning them with all of this education you had to deal with all these things because in a hand.

[00:55:48]
And as it turned out these people were very serving quite a few of them were separate in Vietnam. And how do you talk you into that that I don't know I don't. I don't know you don't have a lot of choice Mitchell So some are a 71 year and you're going to graduate in a quarter.

[00:56:08]
So what happened well I graduated and went directly into the military because you enlisted they let you finish up that finished at. The one of their was a delayed entry program. I went to basic training at Fort Knox Kentucky and then went directly from there to. Advanced training at Fort Gordon.

[00:56:30]
Here's our court warrant. In August I. Can hear you are still in Georgia here in Georgia. I would have been there maybe a week or 2 and the commanding officer of the school was the captain. Call me in his office he was a tech writer. To meet him everywhere he should be should not be here.

[00:56:58]
But he he was savvy enough to know what kind of education yeah you should not and should he have thank God he noticed you know her yeah you really get there is personal records and the owners there was a Tech graduate and so this you don't want to be here and to be to make a recommendation Well I was experienced for within a week or 2 to Edgewood Arsenal Maryland which you didn't mind at all but that it meant I spent 3 years.

[00:57:24]
Testing weapons wow what if you hadn't met him you could have gone to Vietnam that if you know better I am somewhere wow boy that was an intervention was that you know I tell you what the text read gifts are more valuable all the time when you look at it that way so what did you find that work in Maryland remotely interesting was very interesting as we tested you know whatever weapons were coming on line at that time and we would test I'm in the field we would develop the tests and we're securing Aberdeen Proving I would improve it down here you know again it is a big big focus on our work here you know as wood was part of Aberdeen OK we tested most of the testing that she was done in as well could you have applied for a transfer of your own without his help you know so it really was an intervention.

[00:58:18]
Well bless his heart I mean I had no idea such of such places even exist and everybody's you know what you with this you just become whatever they tell you to be exactly you go where you're told and that's all I want yeah wow so everybody there were mostly college wreckage.

[00:58:37]
Sure because it may be well and that's what he wanted men around with stuff like that so that the reactors went by clearly uneventfully friendly on them is the only 11 critical thing happened you got married to get married in August of 1903 and how did that come about.

[00:58:56]
When you had been hoarding or writing letters and well yeah and I met during my senior she was of it too was a freshman that I can scout and we dated throughout my senior year and when I left to go into the service we communicated she came up to Maryland a few times I came back home on leave a few times and the family decided to behave Mary's And did you have a wedding here in Atlanta Margie had only had a wedding then the western side in North Carolina when Who did you know there but that's where her parents were all her parents she was from with inside OK so that you had a family wedding day at the right depth and then could she come back and with you she still had to finish out she were married in August and she graduated actually graduated early from Magnus got a big leap in that she finished you have one quarter at the up to Maryland January or February of A but they didn't com a date married.

[00:59:59]
I think that out yet but well you know if you're in the military I mean we had an apartment off the stuff that you know so you started your married life with the army routine there but it was pretty it was pretty regular there that it was very regular It was more of a civilian type that was fair there then I'm not a very scrappy Army atmospheres is not really a bad gig when I go to battle a.

[01:00:27]
Were you already inspired refused Yes very much for like as I make and I forget if Martin Luther King's funeral which I don't know if that started so it started when I was very young as probably 10 than 10 years old I'll just say that children that now actually talk and I had always the outside Brownie camera that member used in the 1st ball right are whether early point of origin the way that was and it just as time went by you got more sophisticated I got more sophisticated and you know I took a class here or there and any classes at Tech no classes that you know we didn't have photography and I didn't know that yet was there and we also were always looking for people to shoot for the time after that at the news and I did lip read that you never appeared human Never I missed that whole play bill then you would have They're great at that you know I would eventually that's up shop for something small newspaper some ask a sports and small college sports so we have been great to come back and find your at your little byline on some of the 1st stuff in the yearbook something so sun I forgot you may have an opportunity and said we are here but life went on and what were you thinking as you were coming to the end of your list that period but as well house thinking well what I meant when I did from here of course you know I have to Green says it's and there's not a lot you can do with that undergraduate degree in physics it's a little R. and so you know I started thinking about a career and what I wanted to do and.

[01:01:56]
Very soon I'm in very for 2 assists very fortunate in my life and that things just seem to fall into place and so I thought well you know some of the questionnaire in sounds interesting and it was just a it was a new science was a new curriculum at that time I think Georgia Tech was just getting that off the ground so I thought well let's go back to Atlanta and the see what happens and so you know I went back and looked into the programs the cyclically interesting problem I think I'll let the.

[01:02:33]
Applied if I can and see if I can get if you have a G.I. Joe and I had an agenda and so my wife was a chemistry major Agnes got the only cat chemistry major and I can scout I believe. I think there might have didn't want to respect.

[01:02:53]
That she was also interested in pursuing the investigation so we came back to Atlanta and. Enrolled in Georgia state that's where we're going to Georgia Tech to take math some prerequisites for biology I just wanted him George to just that we're slowly easier to be honest about that yet to be honest and.

[01:03:19]
Pick up these prerequisites and. I took some courses in biology and chemistry at Georgia State and where they use their yes or else nope they were I was a lot older then yeah yeah I was you know I was if it was a different mentality Yeah but I think there is your bit young other hand I think organic chemistry and physical chemistry and the like that they want to rule in an easier there than they were presented with it and I guess the feedback is now that yeah exactly is that the need to have this knowledge and then get a chance of getting their own school.

[01:03:55]
Enrolled in school she went she started her master's degree in chemistry about the same time and at Georgia State That was cool Yes and I know right young married coming out of going out for advanced degrees you get apartments somewhere down in where we had a report that brought to the for North Druid Hills right on the Burma complex is still there as a matter of fact certainly and we live there during our tenure in graduate school.

[01:04:22]
Anuj you decided just to stay at you Well I'm and when I met one of the professor sneers is ones I'm an avid laugh and we just hit it off and serve working in his laboratory and this it was that were to work with him microbial physiology was what my master's degree visit and the family work period arresting and he was very pleasant person to work with a very.

[01:04:51]
Bright. Very progressive type of person came a mentor he was a very much of a mentor for me and that great wave of things yeah and I can say that set up in very forcing the mom life to have people like in this in her my life and in the influence in one way or another well you know the search assistant for you know I was a while I was a research assistant laboratory and then I did some teaching assistant ships teaching laboratories are likely to help with that although it's helped with the bills and longer so you don't really have to go look for another job you don't have to as a print other job at that time my wife was working part time in the library at Georgia State at the time and she pursued her study right and so how long did it take you to every 3 years 3 years you had your masters and again like in 78 you graduated from my masters did you think about going out for PH state or well I did you think you wanted to get some hands up in the moment to get out get a job and you're ready and I was I was I was ready and I worked for a period of time at Emory University for the professors there named Dean Danner it the Dean was its name he wasn't Now he was going to be dating was it and he just recently passed and they asked you I think and and so you were hired individually to him at Emory to do some research Right right I worked in this migratory his research system and I went to my transition for this nice transition for me in the meantime I applied for government work and just on our 1st when I had the time and you put a general application then again you know you might get called by the F.D.A. or you make you come to the C.D.C. to make it come out of the environmental protection or you don't you know you don't know you know I don't specifically have at that time you did nest specifically apply for one agency or another plant is a societal testicle think your fate is the one that took you I think.

[01:06:53]
I was hired in September of 1978 as I'm. Microbiologist I guess it was my time I don't. Suggest. It was $978.00 was 2 years subsequent to the listeners' outbreak disease outbreak in $976.00 and there still is there is tremendous amount of work being done Legionella at that path that was higher specifically to work on that organism and it was a temporary position you were hired temporarily retired temporarily OK And we're saying is that the Center for Disease and drought Yeah OK to see how times have been rolled up cliffs in red so you took it as a temperature I think it is a temporary position I don't even recall what my salary was there was no mystical.

[01:07:44]
But together with with that they my wife there in that same period of time get a job at the F.D.A. and we bought our 1st house that same year so you're managing now temporary but did they tell you specifically how many there was year is year to year of year to year years and you have a new contract basically you'd be renewed every year you know depending on whether they had the money depending on whether that position was still OK a bailable and.

[01:08:17]
So I worked under those conditions for about 3 years. I don't even recall if there was a promotion within those 3 years I don't think so that during that time there were some permanent positions that came open that I played for and sets really was you got like get hired and then your full time employee that had benefits and then our full time employee and actually the time that I spent the temporary employee counted towards my retirement What I thought the so.

[01:08:54]
Did you like the work I love the work it was marvelous The people were marvelous it at that time since the C.D.C. the Centers for Disease Control was just that it was nothing there but infectious disease we were 67 buildings I think it's you know with nothing like what is there today and it was a very much a close much closer to creep than I think that that I know that this was a much closer to create There there at that time than there is now for several reasons.

[01:09:28]
One of which is that the director or director of C.D.C. at that time was not in the pointed position they came up generally from the right but on the right so on and it was so as no not as many politics involved it's are you know that we had that.

[01:09:48]
Almost like being in college and that you were all immunity Very much so every day most everything everybody knew everybody else you know was a can a career that you just didn't walk away from yeah it was that so people were there it was a cut throat it was no.

[01:10:04]
Little down little bit of it were human beings after I had the energy in the eyes and they were scientists and there were 6 people want to publish a new word so there was always that yeah I still you know get your info you know Absolutely will be treated as a side project or over all I you know we would work in specified projects.

[01:10:25]
Somebody always mind you to these or how it was cute me whatever was happening that the time if there was the 1st laboratory I worked in the know it was geared more towards Legionella than anything else. The laboratory itself was contactors analysis so I worked with the ring there's a MS that were transmitted from animals to humans brucella to bring the anthrax.

[01:10:53]
Leptospirosis number different other work in as I'm and we were very very specialized in that the time I started developing this is a specialty in immunology. It's just the way things work out and again just like this to supplement just happened to be and so over my 27 years that I went to my G.S. 5 to fairly high grade level and left their view of.

[01:11:22]
Them laboratory chief. So it was a very gradual. You were comfortable with that and then just let things go over they would go yeah I actually found your niche and specialize in the immunology Yeah yeah so your research was focused on different kinds of vaccines and know my research was focused on it use it I mean I see for diagnosis.

[01:11:45]
How interesting that feels very interesting and we. Would produce what were called monoclonal antibodies to not only measure anybody with any human being to produce diagnosis and by response in the human brain but also just directly detect their work in estimates of so it was a very very that was a cutting edge technology at that time you were a detective now with Sivits is my fact we did have another sect that they from one of our investigations.

[01:12:19]
That was did that the values eighty's I guess there was a up break up of. Illness and in Brazil that these children would get a contempt divide us. And 3 days later they were dead my word and so was a very famous is a very dramatic type of illness a very fast fast acting home and so C.D.C. was called in and we see you see then and as now we're divided up into what may be countered that emptying your logic section of the laboratory section was talking about with some I seen some vague as it were that to me only just and then brings us to bring specimens back to where the work is done and then we did track down the like to Cajun of that disease and they didn't know that the segment of it they were able to treat it then after Sandy whatever it was had and you know where you are you remember the tree that moved more than that you were able to recognize it early enough to where you were able to treat it before it went on it before it's you know it was caused by organism the mouth was G.P.S. and the mouth was influenza is a 2 organism that's pretty commonly the session to conduct a minus but this was a little bit of that type.

[01:13:45]
Of like you know generally speaking the general public just I mean it's sways with all kinds of different careers has no clue what really goes on under those roofs what's happening over there how much meticulous research goes on to make now loads of the things we don't know that I've done so that goes back to your question you asked what with the Big Dig where we assign things well for instance in that case the obvious thing to do is to make prints of monoclonal antibodies the organism part of the measure and the body response and the patients to you know a variety of different organisms that we had test for to see if we can pinpoint what the you know what particular Yes And so you get these you develop your own little reputation with them and the.

[01:14:33]
Facility so something comes in this is something somebody special effects they're more apt to more advanced and research on this and think guy down is that down the lab alley around the hall and so that's how you would acquire things to work on right now and you work on the mysteries tell you solve them are yes.

[01:14:56]
I don't think we have enough appreciation for Eccleston that I think he has a I can't think one outbreak that we didn't track them in your logic ages for. It it's just a constant because the world is so confused and full of things so it's a constant business it's very much a constant there is this becoming more because it is good and I love you know everything why why why do we have this now what do we have that when we have this before you know a lot of it was because it was a recognized that was always there but nobody was there but nobody knew and then the part of it there's one fact that we're such a mobile.

[01:15:32]
You yeah there's world which thing it's as something being totally is hidden with more about everybody that affected by mobility right and more people to their end people living longer all of these would be things that would affect and would call you know more order to it. Microbiology is a very orderly process is it not I mean you have fixed.

[01:15:56]
Parameters that you work with. You have to know I think that there's a so you can drive years back there's like any other science or is approaches that you take. But at the same time there's you can have to be able to think outside those parameters you have to be able think outside the box to do what if scenarios within your own mind but your own within your group with the the capabilities with your then your laboratory and so then I think that's where the maybe the connection between art and science really comes into play is to be able to think outside the box because Ravi's we're always faced with surprises Well I didn't know that was.

[01:16:46]
And there's a saying that you hear quite often many laboratories that especially when we're doing different testing for of an art than a science. You know there's a crisis alignment and you learn to express yourself through the work you're doing well with us in the not only intellectually but also just being able to this day run a test sometimes doesn't people one person to do a test the return run time at a research test that's something that's been through F.D.A. approval and yet you know anybody can take out of the box and use a strip turn to let.

[01:17:27]
You know. The doing research and especially I think maybe in a microbiology lab where we're dealing with. Lab systems we're not dealing with Yeah nuts and bolts that there becomes a point in the process where you develop a feeling for into this new intuitiveness that they're coming based on experience thanks very much and I have experienced a mixture of experience but I also think just as the general nature of the in the new intuitive person doesn't just make it he's there to be skilled in this probe in this area of science do you have to continually educate yourself That's so you try to keep on the cutting edge of all the new With his knowledge will you keep his new you keep up with the literature you that's you know that's the quest to publish the quest The publisher knowing the quest to publish yourself better read with somebody and read whatever the people who are doing review other people really do wish and I love that part of the game I'll That's part of the game and you publish a lot of published stuff somewhere between 60 and 80 publications although I hear probably 35 or 40 of which I was 1st author of that's published that published a pretty good that what would you say singularly looking back at 27 X. years.

[01:18:55]
That you would be proud of. What was your singular This is a terrible question like get all the favorite but tell me what you know what we're really proud of that a breakthrough an accomplishment or a paper or an expert Well I think that the Brazilian per pre Cleaver that was a big deal was was probably the it was certainly one of the most exciting and I think probably one of the proudest things that I've ever been in because of a flight because we saved lives directly and that's that that's again part of the job and the elec think of there was a conflict with the 1st time that really listeria was.

[01:19:39]
Recognised in this country at least as a potential problem for our community that was when there was a blistery as this outbreak in California the white. I guess it was mid to late eighty's. Where we were the only reason it was recognized was because the Hispanic the listeria is an organism which causes abortion in pregnant women as one of the very fast men at the stations of it but it also affects others in the business and that just in this wise but that so happens that is the cheese at them imported from Mexico and it was the least there was the company had been imported from Mexico it was used probably predominantly in the Mexican population in Los Angeles all of a sudden an outbreak of a sudden prickly when the story sure enough that the local hospital boarding and nobody could put the fare at last had no break but the finger on why so we were right but we were able to trace it back to the 1st probability that the behavior of the team that went out to collect the evidence brought it back and the suspect in this has to go on every day day in and day out kind of a that's a big world business it goes on every day and cities he does it for the whole country the whole world whole world where the whole world you know.

[01:21:04]
When was all but AIDS outbreak taking place was that in the late seventy's and eighty's that was more like a mid eighty's I think up where you are around the fight Yeah but I'm always love always been involved in Mike and bacteriology and that's a different thing I mean yeah there's a virus viruses and they found there was about me just ask me as a primary Yeah purses are very much outside my area OK so the actual bacteria but the this is the eco lie and things that are really sick of the Carlisle 157 there were some in the paper today about income by some probably yeah it's that's was more during my final tenure there that was I was keeping through 2 or 3 laps so I was there and more which to pin a more on my Especially in immunology rather nice specially if one any one particular organism.

[01:21:56]
So my last 7 day years there was foot was spent on the board and reality which was equal I want that to happen someone I loved listeria the ones we read about the paper wondered if you know the reason that this you read about on the papers didn't do you you oversaw are you were there to time when it grew.

[01:22:16]
A lot lot you started out with 7 buildings as it came the mega complex that it is now. The work force go to the launch of Atlantis to the next what do you find that did you find in your last year when you were thinking about retiring that that the up and comers the young people coming in were well trained and qualified applicants for the most part they were they were well trained but they were real trained academically there were it was about 5050 I think that people would come in well claim both academically and practically I think the practical application of science is a different than the academic side but just wondered how well academics preparing you know youngsters to go out and face the world.

[01:23:08]
Of you broken them pretty fast and I think people break in pretty fast to realise that there are many real world now there are national not a leprechaun I mean there's a lot of their help around has to choose Yeah there's of what I'm after in that is that a lot of the 3 names was a good thing because the reason I think of that is because academics you know what used to be as they say a very bizarre thing back in the day you know when I went to tech you know your had your 5 or 6 basic things you were going to be 5 or 6 basic degrees and now there's 400 by some degrees you know so we're we're refining refining refining and I wonder you know is there a point where it's gotten not as practical maybe are too niche or you know or because you were you went in there kind of as a generalist in a way you know you.

[01:23:56]
Rod the lab experience he just serious Yeah I don't know either health always felt like as I was very fortunate to have a broader experience Yeah I would think so yeah because I think there's a tremendous number of different things to Florida today you know the answers are getting I didn't know I don't know that's a good question then but that's quite possible only time will tell us yeah it's just something to talk about yeah I know the young people that I would have your supervisor would be with have contact with some of them were just Truman had tremendous intuition and some of the know it to white people just completely like it like the world area yeah so in and was working for the Food and Drug Administration you were from where she worked for only about Suri 3 years with them and she got a job at C.D.C. she came to our city center where she worked at and Shanley at and toxicology OK And so we were very much a professional family that went to the children started coming on at the children started coming my wife decided she didn't like she's saying.

[01:25:06]
That I don't know 1st of her individual circumstance ever want to do with it that she decided that some point in time that she was going to go to medical school. And so applied to medical school and was accepted at Emory and quit her job and with the medical school that she actually did go to met she went to medical school while the 1st child was born during her 4th year of medical school like to her and I thought there was a multi-tasking woman for you how do you manage bearing a child and we had medical school at the same time Wow Well I helped out a lot.

[01:25:46]
About you so she actually became a physician. And became a mother says they got in their 2nd child was born the 4th are very rare resident they can what what this she specializes in his path on just. So she did go back to the research of it yeah well it's a very practical preferably use a very practical if you're going to be a parent especially because you have our 6 hour yeah extra hours for the most part not much college yeah a little bit but nothing really smart what about it is that she's pretty good really bright if you're pretty bright.

[01:26:20]
Was it a joint decision you and her together that you were going to retire. When you made the decision that no it was always an independent decision OK You just knew you had enough of it or when i do i had enough of that about 3 years before.

[01:26:35]
When you play A For that you know if you want to started a business you know which we're a part of sitting here right now OK And how did that come about was it an opportunity or did you meet your business partner when it opened that you decided you were going to have a gallery Well I was adamant that's we talked about a little bit up always done for the photography and for a period of 4 or 5 years prior to opening the gallery in 2001 and I would have been knocking 969097 around starting then.

[01:27:13]
We started for myself and I think that my current business partner but somebody else started. Working our systems. So you to simulate your own work and take it out on the road right yet it mostly wanted most would be fine but even if it just helps if. You have to catch you have a very.

[01:27:35]
Not a very discriminating crowd that comes to look at once not why they should pay that much money is that no matter how humble you know I think Zach you are you only would get a lot of commentary like we'll have to take that picture everybody else I can do that is right this or that but but it was hard work it was very hard work did you find it rewarding it all the time you know you like selling your art I want to do dealing with people working with people so that part of me and you know I liked working with Martin as well so that the whole the whole experience with the exception of how physically demanding it could be was very pleasant so you could see yourself transitioning into that in some next phase of your career Yes very easily so you plan to carefully you everything ran both for 5 years because there you.

[01:28:23]
Hung up your shingle so to speak yeah and Ne Ne's been with the strip been with the gallery for 3 years where we're equal partners now but it actually started to Gary with the with the person that I was doing our special. And that partnership. Kind of dissolved if you're a period of time the way they had you know the way they had good to begin seeing Gallery here in this very space that's OK tell me how you found that.

[01:28:52]
The person there went in business with that that time found a space who had been looking around to cater left indicator and here isn't now so. When you have a car park but you know this is a big space that you know that a small space our size small space in the this story is that people start with like the space in well you know this.

[01:29:12]
We have you know we've been looking at spaces and you know Germany there were much smaller than this perhaps half an hour or less the size and but nothing seemed to really suit us or our mentality and in this the 1st partner produced what kind of art and just talk for is also photographer OK So this is like really big for just photography that's what a decision had to be made that you were going to have more than we've had have with different dogs if you not only more than just photography but with all the windows it's limits of the limits you're hanging space so you have to incorporate mediums other than I kid I'm going to gather that this doesn't look like this for.

[01:29:55]
That we were the 1st tennis match that we'd help them get out so here when I'm looking at it your hand right this is this is the way we were limited a little bit there were only 3 were limited to quite a bit I guess in what we could physically did because it's on the National Restaurant the storage place I know now the wood floor it's a beautiful floor they were here there were a school so you had just for finished but we re finished filming this part over here Prince and her bra did out so you see think and so you had to yeah it was too expensive for us to run I'm dealing with ex you know it's amazing the difference in price yeah.

[01:30:35]
But if it's suitable and know you're very prone to that you know this if it's less so because this on the historic record you can't just do anything you want right to me that when I start a particular we keep making structural changes we did have these 2 was here built out to give a little I want to paint things space.

[01:30:53]
Beautiful metaphor corner I mean this is still down under fire and 6 years ago it was just the beginning of the gentleness of the area so you were taken to kind of a ranch we were thinking of kind of a risk did you buy it or do you know we lease illegally so this gets not for sale yet that has the the building was restored under.

[01:31:14]
The codicil between our landlord who is not profit and rehabilitates structures and this is a for structure that done like it is this is what they plan to. And then when you say rehabilitate or restart the exterior they can restore the whole thing or they did you know they did the for a 1st date Well when we came in they were just starting this deal as this very handsome from the outside too so they gave us like as.

[01:31:45]
The lamps to finish the job to finish the job OK Do we want to keep these floors if we want to put just will know him over no we want to keep the stories from our way but it will add or make the whole class so you know so we had you know had to put some of our own resources into it but there are there are there are.

[01:32:06]
Mission as to risk rehabilitate structures for. For reuse by the less fortunate with the being disabled or the engine or the elderly or whatever obviously just cannot be that live there it's not just it's not set up to be the one that makes apps hard and it's not about no no no if you look behind the building there are a number of little bungalows that were built as part of their code to sell So someone you dislike for the disabled So that's how they manage sex I was going to take so what you just yes that yeah so they you know I put extra money and you know it built these back there is something that they were able to get the funding together to to do it to do what you get the main.

[01:32:57]
I think we have a contest one night I don't really recall to be honest with you just always then it was we just came late we went through the blood of different scenarios and but not it was obvious name now now if there's a kind of a play on words added in the S.N. This isn't a visual scene death scene it's very and it's some wonderful concession say so but you quickly had to find out that you had a choir.

[01:33:26]
Artist artists a board of artists that would put their Do you buy their work or you just display their work for them yeah I mean we certainly we Germany's take things on consignment that's the best way to work force for them and that's one of the most difficult things must know there's a lot of difficult stuff should start with any of this and this is why Yeah typical me but to to find artists if to build your reputation and that's the critical thing to do you have to be a place to come to this Acme you have to have a you have to have a reputation your reputation is built on the artist and so you have a higher class of your people you bring in the better your gallery is seen as that is active in the world.

[01:34:06]
Really the best that are to or we bring the better every day. You know. We have to look for shows do put shows on here because have not bought one show I'm a really bad Afghan boy that's labor intensive Yeah it is and we return we're going to try to cut it back we did cut back a little bit last year and we were trying to cut it back and the mission about thank you just for me is the last 100 shows a year that I would not in fact have back a subject so do you always do the shows with your 30 artists that you have on knock down now and just outside are you know we just have what you know we journalists just right now we're just concentrating on the people we have in the past we have to go outside somewhat the causes we're trying to bring people are to stand where Ted was like look at different large lots of different people in the track different audiences because most people have some sort of following and yet that by the same token you want to be able to represent people represent artists that you can help build a career with and you can build their career and they have to be a good reputation so they got on the show mentorship all day so they did it so it is certainly should be there should be there should never even thought about that so you do accept some of the responsibility for showcasing I don't think of our that's our job that's your job that's what they pay us or that's what our presence is if your stuff is all it's the obligation you have to any thought because we have a tremendous obligation to artist and I mean artists through that they play turn showing art I grieve Yeah we do we try to have small shows one or 2 or 3 people at the most it's not enough thing to do it to get publicity from whoever they're following your publicity from their followers from the collector's C.D.'s in the not too hard strong mailing list sending out press releases because this is a tremendous amount of land but we've been blessed that we have had some very very good artists from very early on do you love what you know yes absolutely and I love that.

[01:36:10]
People in my office know it's of retired mean it's a retirement job for you but at the same time it's really not because you've got a lot riding on this so you have a full response there with that but does it cut you more slack than you had when you were at the C.D.C. I mean the time when I'm on time was well do not know the time of Perceval then they put the structure time the way you want to structure so the let's look more last it's not manifest OK so if you want to work here at night you can work your time around do that yes I work for free while Amy and I want to close up and don't talk a bit about a need because she's been a blessing to this place that.

[01:36:48]
If we want to close up for the night for a few interesting looks like just go be a better deal during lights off we gonna save your life we don't do that very often the ME ABOUT ME How did you meet her Amy was one of our artists and.

[01:37:04]
We met right right before the year before I retired and I thought of her and of the gallery as an artist and what's her medium like to. See all types she wants you to fight and she just they are that's one of them as of right over there is a monopoly and.

[01:37:26]
So over a period of time we developed a friendship and the mutual respect for each other and in the same period of time. With the this partnership that I had at that time that we have looked at this in the greatest artists in a great so with when that finally did happen which was a perceivable.

[01:37:48]
Advice and they need to come in and start working with and and soon after she started working with this we found how. Much we company Jim. And I. So. Wish her strengths are your weaknesses and by sacrifice that's why you're back to anybody that God does US relation is the one of Jamie is a marvelous artist and in she's a nurse she's mortified right now that everything in here is not pristine in the U.K. come to have mentioned when I came say worth it and obsessed by it but just the head and shoulders think I like what we're looking at which is one of if I may say one of your color you know I have seen this and what that tells what epigraph what that was think it in Montana it was taken on a trip to to Glacier National Park that was taken outside the park.

[01:38:42]
In move a state park and in Montana and I can't recall the name of it's very very cute it was taken right. Right Assad said just across the plains and you can see the mountains Yeah just yeah I read in the background has a series of undulating ways that I'm looking at very beautiful and so you compliment each other artistically to yeah.

[01:39:04]
Yeah I'm photographer she's a painter that better you know any term rates a news act that very good with numbers I think that's. Analytically she handles that and the gallery part of it more and she you know I handle it more the gallery Purab it than I do we work together on all of it that we recognize that we're all right we're our strengths are and we very seldom do they know conflict that has usually been easy let's say let's go back to your home I want to talk about your sons you have new boys to boys Robert and John Wright and Robert the oldest one right tell me what pasties pursued.

[01:39:47]
Both of them went to the public school here in Decatur. Good schools very good schools and cater we have people that from outside the system the pay tuition Yes I'm here. Robert applied to I'm not sure how many schools see a plan through when he was given was it when he was looking at colleges but of course Georgia Tech was was on the list.

[01:40:11]
And he would accept it to the most of the colleges and he applied to I think well I know you remember what the one or 2 exceptions were what they Christian was one of them that the that that was did get it that he was accepted at Georgia Tech and having become with me to this is having had a very very good.

[01:40:36]
Upbringing in the tech tradition. Can simply watch somebody got he would decide that he was graduating from Georgia high school is going to go for help then he was eligible for hope that certainly had the inside Well yes and I was we went in harder than when I was somewhere else where we've been here we were prepared and.

[01:40:59]
When. Some effort the fact that he was able to take advantage of the Hope and his hope for years I might add. That he for him it's a consumer commodity. Well I would like to what does he pursue this as he has a chemistry major so he followed his mommy's may have footsteps so that I think since then chemistry enters in the So he goes through tech and how many years 4 years he graduated 40 and so he got his bachelor's degree and that's really great for you know 4 years did you have a good tech experience you know here you could take a space of this marvelous tech experience See this is and that's how you got to know the difference between nurturing professors Yeah actually I don't think we're cheering administrators ever so close to your day you have is it with my wife and I went to you know it's not to the orientations for you know we asked you to and we were just so impressed with pretty with how much they want to help these units had success not only that you'll get back but in a world where the training leaders for this not sure if he thought he would run into the a freshman experience but yes I met a great program and I presume he's a gifted student parties because not he was there definitely was a good he was a gifted and us go and so he graduated we you was probably your promise was probably 2002 so you say very recently as I did to kind of you know but see it's a numbers game a jumbled up and I'm mad 2006 and what was he doing now where we can be applied to graduate schools for I think 5 graduate schools across the country in forensic science or is not a lot he got into all the programs.

[01:42:44]
The University of Illinois in Chicago said if you come here we'll let you even take a year off so between 20060 he's got to make up tents with the time that will be great for with the year of him which he probably really needed when he spent the time hike the Appalachian Trail from a majority needed to that wonderful what an accomplishment to be fair that the rest of his life absolutely and heaven is the fiance spent some time and just been through Europe and just doing what he wanted to that's grand but right now he's in Chicago University Illinois in Chicago is pursuing a bachelor and the future is a master's in principal science some of the specialty in chemistry and hand one and then his 2 as play list is go from there to straight to into the workforce and he's like you he's not going to go get a Ph D. you see what you did and you have found that you're right and in the world waiting for him to graduate because that's not like you said there's not that many schools right but the need has got in incredibly well in wrestling up when you interviewed with the G.B.I. last month the month before.

[01:43:54]
They had 1010 people that they brought in to for the interview and they gave them some written tests. The gentleman was down there there was in general having walked out after the written test and said OK Tell that to make Giacomo leave the rest of you stay or is Robert one of the you know you don't like the state and so then they want to call you up to fill it out so you know I say that he went out to the if you've stage and then and then they're going to record check may have an interview and he said he looking for a job you know he's been going to school yes they want to get their hands on him it's like it's like you know I don't think that Marvel desk now what about John John is a junior.

[01:44:43]
And he just touched down pictures Georgia Tech to give us not to think kind of John this as Robert this is either real thank goodness and it was borrowed basket now you know you could care less about going to those games with this and that he's brilliant absolutely brilliant and what has failed is that he's a.

[01:45:06]
Big started in computer science which is still a computer science major but in the meantime between his freshman sometime in a sophomore year he decided to double major in computer science and the electrical engineering someone steps up so he said he's even got a D.C.. He's a double he's a double That's wonderful So he really is going to be still finding out what he's going to do when it will have time to go to another.

[01:45:36]
The computer science will certainly come but if you don't get the application yeah it's the 3rd letter green Gerry's very mathematical mathematically inclined inclined and so that's I think that satisfies more that part out being so he'll be doing something a that his computer science advocate Yeah I would think so wound and with things I can hardly wait to find out he has also sued 23538 of right now you are lucky guy or whatever very blessed My word that is really young tech for the boys to be entirely different and yet both be very gifted academically gifted you're lucky you have to realize there are people who tear their hair out for this if you know it's somewhat and thank God there's never been any issues with drugs or alcohol you're very alert for your primary how you brought yourself up your 2 boys have had 2 parents all the way down here have been there and make their different life to different side of the nose unable to how old they are and you were more of a hands on father I was you know I'm going to you know this question of for me going to various up to your father's role Yeah really father your kids clueless and yeah yeah exactly things happen to him I'd rather imagine you're pretty proactive as a parent Yeah so yeah keep them yakka Well my wife's a medical school and they have done a residency with during the 1st 8 years of issues still in practice I guess she practices it so the raise.

[01:47:01]
So she's that retiring Yes No thank God. Somebody has to have a day job that night and I think. There's a boys approve of your venture here that they think well or they don't approve or disapprove of it it's just that it's just me. I don't think they don't have an active interest in.

[01:47:23]
Either job in their particular is very artistically inclined or you can see that I actually have seen that John it's very very early on in this job where you know that when you were recommended to us somebody saw you at a street fair and fit in and it was where the fact that you graduate from Georgia Tech and that's kind of how we're just this now a biologist and artist at the same night and said you know the little piece of paper it was a mimeographed or I'm not Mary whatever you call go up or to has changed to numbers for you and I am a staff and when you were somebody lining up that's what it was this is actually was it was a little Xerox you know copy of the same gallery logo and it says the bottom build in a telephone number and then someone wrote on the bottom of it this guy went to Georgia Tech might be an interesting interview so we were sitting down to look at you know because the 1st 1000 people to meet him we'd like to meet somebody who uses both sides of their brain and you you told me today you think that that's not the case you don't think that it's that brain uses exclusive you think they're going to come back I don't think it's what came about how I think it's how I think I think there's a bell shaped curve and there are people that fall within the center of the curve that perhaps do think was one side of their brain or there are definitely but in the past so what about the I was out here on the plains on the fringe which is where I think about this 2nd year of that phrase that maybe take with the size or the brain are able to so I could tell whether you have a whole lot of the riddle that I have no more interested in art or STRAIGHT TO BE Yeah yeah it's based.

[01:49:01]
Can't be analyzed on the paper define to me it doesn't exist the person the person. When you just started I know exactly where that came from it was from James Dean who does oral character Kopete the cat he was sobbing graduate there was a letter going to near 0 we had Georgia power he had quit Georgia power at their use when you're 36 they have it and he makes his living as an I says living there is a whore and he was passing out your yeah he's always represented James since reopened he's running for whenever I walk a decade or so he gave it to somebody for yeah I guess if somebody gave it to me and yes that's funny because boy this is better a really fun afternoon for us we really enjoy hearing your story that I hope you have I've had more fun than you have let on the other guy many interesting things that I can't thank you enough for taking time out one of thank you for including me and it's it's been a pleasure thank you so.