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>> This is a living history interview with Tom parent class of 1949 conducted by Marilyn summers on April 12th the year 2007 we are at his home in Tallahassee Florida and the subject of our interview today his life in general his experiences at Georgia Tech Tom It's a pleasure to be here and I'm beautiful space that you have just it's lovely everything from the beginning of the drive into the home are you very happy here one place without trouble like you I want to talk about your life right from your earliest memories coming where you were born and when born in Clarkston Georgia December the 8th night 120 Clarkson's a little town 15 miles east of 5 points in Atlanta 15 miles east of does exist today yes and a lot of different forms and.

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I can't I don't remember the park it's between Decatur and Stone Mountain I didn't even know that I guess yeah I guess I do know that yeah and then the it was a long way from Atlanta was that of a farming community agriculture are not men only not necessarily not necessarily 50 miles was a long way because transportation was challenging what were your parents doing in Carcassonne.

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My dad's family had moved there. In the early twenty's from Elbert in Georgia he had come with his father and mother of. 5 brothers and 2 sisters big families right our chins up in the north part of Georgia come what the strikes and my mother's family came there from Alabama my mother's father was there a farmer.

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And he had a day or if they're near Clarkston. My dad's father was a farmer and they had a farm located about. Probably 2 miles from the dairy farm and that's how they were probably and I'm sure that's how they made it through some association at church I believe so they definitely were agriculturally Yes And we're probably going to work every day Carson was definitely agriculture right and they must've come because they thought it was going to be better than where they were she said I would assume so it was you don't move somebody with 88 kids right Alicia thought you're going someplace better opportunities you know and I thank you for the kids it turned out to be getting near a lot and I would go up to an absolutely 2nd was that when they were thinking of you know well I was like you have time that's right and I think.

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My dad's father grandfather there and I had some financial troubles with a big farm he had an elder can and then later on had financial problems on the farm that they had there and the gap can well let's face it farming is a very challenging way it will make your living very challenging Do you remember your grandfather pear Yes he lived long enough for you to have some kind of knowledge of Him Yes I used to go quail hunting with him when I was you had great and 11 years ago yeah well this is like he was a gruff Go to so much a man of this time I was a very.

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They're reticent didn't talk very much but when he said something you need to be listening as if he said something it was worth listening well he thought it was that made it worthwhile you may be held accountable if you were paying attention yes they are. I never thought he created my grandmother very nicely but I think that was part of the time it was but he supported Iraq in remembers a young child setting dining room table with the entire family and you could not eat if you chose to but you never complained about the food and if you took something on your plate you ate he had rules those were his rules grandmother she was Saudis ago and both of those with fruit he had nobody complaining about food that she had prepared so he supported a great deal and that reason in that respect and she was so easy going she might not have taken any offense anyways probably you know he was providing the food for the table and that was a territorial thing probably to argue.

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That she did you have a good relationship with her to yes yes she was a warm fuzzy grandmother whose mom a parent the parent to the family and all the people who came to visit him and about how she just had a part of my bad mother how many children with her and your immediate family in my family yes just a younger brother Yes So just the 2 of you right but both of them now your father you said came from a big family did your mom come from a fairly big and yes she had.

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7 Sisters and 2 brothers so see I did with the the time they just ahead huge families in agriculture because they had to work most of what she worked on the farm. Mother was born in Oklahoma when it was still a territory Really you know my grandfather had left Alabama and gone to Oklahoma was an adventure well.

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He had a sister who had gone out ahead of him and she enticing to come out because the farming was better and all that and they stayed a number of years long enough for her to get born out right and they moved back to Alabama western Alabama and when she was about 6 years old she probably didn't have a lot of memory of it you know well she remembered she can remember she says I remember Tell me about Bill and then too the little town of Randall that Oklahoma and seeing Indians and.

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My grandad had some horses and they would take a. Bunch of horses and into town bartering and trade and you just was your mother's memory and what you wish your mother going. She wanted in the night you know 7 Ok so it was past the rip roaring West but she was right on 113 Yeah that's when they were doing some of the Wild West shows and letting you know I leave Oklahoma became a state the following year after she was born to we always talk about her being born yet a territory and not an alley Yeah I know that and then they came back to Alabama for a while before they came on the cart right she was probably about 17 or 18 awful she when they want to listen to Carson if they hadn't she would make your dad up and his job would have been all this drive interesting did you know your grandmother or grandfather on that side of the family or you know you pretty lucky you how well our grandparents and that you know well when I was born I had 8 grandparents great grandparents really great grandparents I don't remember very well because there were 2 of them right but but you certainly had a lot of family around you my granddad Ben It was my mother's father that night teen 390 well you could well remember him yeah I remember he had I guess it was the skin cancer that finally got him and I can remember him coming to Emory University for the little only treatment that was available in that area and in course it was.

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Too far. Along before they could do any good for me was a really tough life and I don't think we have enough regard and respect for what those people did to Denmark labels you know biggest gamblers in the world they were caused and have to at risk with the weather constantly out in the elements kind of like a to be for their time and like at things like an on the farm in Alabama used to spend the summers over there or a couple months out of the summer with a cousin also a family the still back in Alabama right right just not your well.

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Digress little bit they moved to Clarkston and then at some point when back to the old home place in Edwardsville Alabama which is west of Alabama So no problem well my older aunt and my mother had married so they have cause to go back all the rest of them did and only would visit all their occasion which was quite a trip the night train 30 from Atlanta to Ed was ill it was about 80 miles and no but of course it was in the end of the road to ren I can remember my mother talking about that a model t. Ford 2 babies I guess I was maybe 3 and Bill my younger brother was just born in the wanted time she would warm milk and take it.

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You never knew hello if you don't like because the road one paved they get stuck in the mud minute. Pharma close by would come pull a mile but it was risky then there was no getting back from there to stay on the overnight places even though you weren't all that many miles as it was torture was right.

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That's why trains were so popular I would ride the train from Atlanta to Ed with you isn't my grandad would come over some of the amps and my cousin and I would go back with a new it's been 6 weeks during the summer holiday has a pretty good morning all right did you get chores to do on the underwear Yeah so we also we also got the deep dish Blackberry pies when with your Blackberry and there were rewards has always had a little bit of a Huckleberry Finn kind of a life that you really will do about it we had a good places to swam in the river close but you had with safety and freedom.

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You know you don't already know that that was something to be talking about in the history and it doesn't exist by that I meant nobody was telling you what to do every minute so you didn't make your own choices and you were relatively safe like a fallen tree and break your leg but nobody was going to come carry you off somewhere out on the farm that they did not have electricity so if so you got up early in the morning worked hard during the day you went to bed early because you couldn't say anything at the house was built such that there was a breeze one way or hallway between the kitchen and dining room and the rest of the house for the same purposes everybody built in that way if it's a kitchen caught on fire would burn the whole night and breakfast was a big meal.

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And much time was the biggest meal and then done it I'm was what was left over from midday and they often just called it supper Yeah and yeah yeah breakfast breakfast dinner and supper back then because you went to bed so early Yeah they're going to be like saving time is needed and you are really over at the mercy of the of the hall lamp set on battery operated radio and I hand crank Victrola Can you remember that yeah I can remember Bangor was this record red sailed in the sunset I don't know a lot remember that but I do proud of because it was maybe your granny favorite She played a little red to make you call us your granddaddy your grandmother mama parent what did you call your grandmother then it.

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Grandmother she would call ground because there were a lot of fun names for all you are right I am all of those I just wondered what you call them we call grandad apparent papa and she was Mama and on the other side of grandad and grandmother that's going to have good memories mind when you think about him you can see him in your mind's eye well yeah so you were loved you were long waterhead of we live I was very lucky yeah very lucky to have all that while it was tough times during the years because right after the worse the depression but I bet you never went hungry No but when most in food no question I didn't always have what with my luck to pad but no one so then that was a benefit of being with an agricultural family as opposed to the city folks who as matter of fact on the farm is a pretty well I mean it was and when you were going everybody go my food but it was good help yeah that was it but you have a lot of fresh Yeah yeah I bet you have a diet that they're telling us is the I.

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Should be eating right now yes so that's the best bet is to believe in them and the 1st one it was in time and on course on the farm in Alabama where they did not have electricity they didn't. Never Fredricka but they had a cellar a deep at the root cellar they got right and surprisingly it was cool i never as a child never quite understand how could be that coup but if you went down you could feel you could feel it very much so and it would keep milk for a long period taboo it for a short period Tad and I get most of the most of the maids were dried So you didn't have the a lot of fresh meat and it kept all the root vegetables Well it would have to taste it isn't even apples and very well squash punk and yet those things kept from Season is there much of it was a way to pack things I think and that they probably can't they probably.

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Very much so well even did that when I was a child because people referred to you for building at least thing and if you know what the good economical way to have good food there was canceled available of course in the stores it didn't taste as good as what you make use on this truth I think back to that do you remember the canning days when you were coming up yes we had a talk of Georgia was a little town just I know 2 or 3 miles from from Clarkson and they had a community cannery really if you brought your stuff there yes we had the place where I lived as a child was on 2 and a half acres and we had big Arden's every year and.

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We would either raise that food our sales or above food and take it to the cannery and prepare it and this they put it in jars and 10 cans all while I never heard of that yeah for yeah and that was in Tucker Georgia Ok You know there's a cannery there right now and wonderful really was it could well be that this was this was.

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60 years ago 70 years ago so whatever produce she did and then they charge you so much for the processing and they had so much you can sometimes by machine and you know what you had to do it yourself you had a. You had an appointment time and they had furnished the cans need playfellow and or you paid so much cannon had the different size cans depend on how you want it then you put your own food into it put your own food and then what did they do put it through some kind of heater some well know Lou we had to prepare the food there they had all the equipment of that styles and all of that right now I can't even imagine how that would work well that it was a hard they work that we all yeah and then what about label I think we dissed marked on the head to head no no probably think replanted like I told him it's marked and I think.

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That's so 5 I didn't know that they had one it's just daddy do for a living he can continue farming you know he had had enough farm and because he never got finished high school to my grandad you know it was needed my grandad felt like they need to be on the farm Yeah and like you said he was a gruff old man front line there were many there were 6 there were 6 bowlers and the older 3 never finished high school the younger ones did and as he went I went through there it was it was and he had sought innate skill as a as an automobile mechanic Yeah and he.

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Worked as a mechanic for. A number of years you happy enough people to tell how they all work typically understand how an engine works and he did get you there but he worked as I remember he worked for the Ford dealer indicated as a mechanic. He never knew in the morning when he went to work where they'd still have a job that night and that's how risky it was and if they just had a real slow week that it's like someone off of somebody.

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After my mom died and going through all her things we found a diary that she had kept all the time for 2 years before they married holder not courtship and all that and one of the things that kept her disturbed all the time was the stress that Dad was on because of course all that no one in that right religion and he got laid off Catholic that wound fans Christians recording Yeah yeah you didn't know that until after you know them and never knew she'd get along it was like opening a transit warning of a loaded great great.

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Man she said with a company like you know that now he was a Maurice and pretty easy going sort a guy hard worker but I want to pester mama more than that. They're compassionate person. He had a bad experience when he was bout my teen years ago and that he accidentally backed over the child of a neighbor and killed.

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And it affected him the rest of his life worse just never he never mentioned that does I only found out about it from years later from a fairly gossiping neighbor that leeway and he was holding it in if he was not but I always noticed when I was young even when I started driving he would ride with me it would be riding alone in a big children and there he'd always sort of tense up a little bit an overreaction Yeah I get a little bit and I never quite knew why.

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I was probably. 25 years old before I knew that happened I hadn't heard it was for him it will read all those lies Yeah and it was just an accident yeah I know it's internet no wonder he was so complete child was playing in the yard and the parents and it's horrible it happened well you know he does but I teenager to do something like that he would never kill me or course it really adversely affected him but he.

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Likely never talked about it very much but you could tell it to him it was very little in life your mother was aware of it so she was kind she comforted she knew about it they were with a pulse which your mommy's a calling to pretty much so she was sort of quiet and not a real introvert but she didn't talk an awful interrupting kind of a real stable household in that respect I would never have an hour and gone on not not none of that.

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Actually we lived out in the country because the road was enclave between Clarkston Tucker. An automobile going by was almost to the vet. For stock at a fire I can remember my dad was a disciplinary and but I can remember the one of the few real chastisements I got and it was with a belt What did you to tell I had up of we call them a flip it was a.

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But you don't know what a flipping It's like a fork. We've got a mouse of a tree we have a bread Ok and it looked a rubber band and you could shoot rocks it like a sling shot you know sling shot we call it flip tell us what it's like a whole lot of fun and did you shoot the side of an automobile Passau deer you know what he had to make you understand that when he did he did never dated to get everybody.

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There said never even tried to help him to his 2 boys it probably didn't kill him to do that but it was his responsibility to make sure he lands and I put a little denim side of this guy's car which paid him back and I think yeah and then as they were thinking what were you thinking it's already thinking I did just this just article when you were about 5 years old I did I was born in December and.

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Got an early start so I was always the youngest although I through school and even through diligence I know you were younger than the rest your class because that's an issue when I was still 20 and that that's you know so here you are 5 years old just barely You weren't even probably then you probably weren't even quite 5 if the 1st thing with the number of writers must have been.

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So where did the same school and Clarkston Elementary School which was a mile and a half away I had to get well that was that was interesting. But at that time dad had acquired 2 automobiles 2 bottle a forward and mother would drive a screw mother know how to drive all of that school but we had to cross Peachtree Creek in order to get there and was that a big deal you know very small creek low bridge until we had heavy rains and you know what happens to Peachtree Creek when you have you know I can remember our drive all over that bridge when the water was maybe.

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For 5 inches over the top of the bridge. Now she was not a risk taker but she had to do things like I go on to do like you if you and I You went to school your little brother was still home so you make the big deal go well just go before before we had the 2 cars.

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I would ride in the morning with my dad who was going to work instead of my grandmother's house she lived in town until school time and then I'd go back to and run back home with him in admin and I'd do a little work of what I don't mind it a lot of shifted I got home with a cousin or somebody like that though I have no family close by just made it all worth it worked out if it was all that everybody here but I had an I have to live the same town and had a 3 because ns a name again you had that safety factor nobody left with much work anything it happened everybody in town knew about or you got worse like you get into this fistfight with some other kid on the line reported immediately everybody in town knew about it including parents you're in big trouble again so that those places now are just been sucked right into Atlanta so it doesn't seem like that but I can actually see you telling me I mean I can see how Tucker has a little downtown area.

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And so here you are going to you you are going in not to talk or but to car Clarkson Yeah and. You went. School when you were still very young did it was a kindergarten or 1st grade 1st got it right in the 1st and it was is are all we did I kinda got as you do were you a good student.

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I guess I passed the line or went yeah I did I knew how to do it were sociable I had after I had a real good 1st grade teacher Ms Maynard who I still remember I'm so glad you remember that he was a tough old lady but you know she was a good day she was she got to start off right out of it and that's a great memory to have that yeah how many great stayed in elementary that like so you went one through 7 and then you get transferred to a junior high no just right in the high school high school with which was only 4 years and I graduated when you were in 11th grade and you finished 11th grade and jumping up and hit a merit we had a high school only had.

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About 32 students in the classroom to graduate lighting 45 and we had our only reunion 50 years later and I want to try to find some of the kids or the people who work at it. By the high school to see what kind of records that are people so use myself as an example I said look up my file and see what you have all men terms of the dresses are all right well we looked at looked fine a fan of and said we don't have you graduated you only went through 11 group.

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You know that we don't know my gosh how about that if. You were 16 then. You were just 16 when you were out in 11th grade Holy moley that's young teacher title someone out is. This your parents all your you said your father didn't even get to go to high school did he believe in education he did starting about that that was one of the gold that we had cause.

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We had a pretty pretty tough early years when I was born we lived in a 2 room house not a 2 bedroom I wrote 2 room house just like a little shotgun house or something. And they built a house and $939.00 homes same site and. It was 2 bedroom one bath living room dining room kitchen that was more than a 100 percent improvement volume yes it is well built house did your daddy help build it you know we had a contractor friend it built I was built of good materials and they built it on a but 6 and a half weeks which reasonably readable to like about today it cost $2600.00.

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Per house and we razzed it just. On 20011 so it lasted all those years only it was just as solid as rock a matter of fact my brother and I kept some of the tempers out of it you know that and I mean is it that you were born 28 so you already 11 years old when you moved into that house the bigger out so you could really appreciate you know that I ever had I don't remember.

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What street where was that on what road Coolidge or a college road and I don't like yeah and I love my job assignment and night team 39 was as they brought material on the job I was supposed to check and be sure that if they brought 10 pieces of lumber or 2 pieces of plywood that that's what we've got because Dad was paying the contractor but I still know it will be able to get up on the invoice right yeah right so you learn about responsibility just like me I kept track of all of the letters.

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But you know what I did not you know I can remember. When when I was last doing that we had up I must of had a small radio some time but I can remember that was when Germany went into Poland and I think 39 I guess somehow I remember hearing that well hearing that all about flamed and then that's what I really got interested in world happenings What was I when I found that it Clarke you know I fright and and who said you know that was just for you to have a coming of age here an 11 year old you're already aware Yeah it was it is alright I knew I had met trouble I didn't know exactly Loney 11 years old you already knew it meant trouble yeah you can distil.

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Because I'm sure I heard aunts and uncles nobody else was talking about it I think because they're worried about who was going to go to exact I mean they could see the handwriting on the wall as it turned out it was 2 years before Pearl Harbor bright may still not have that one Pearl Harbor actually when the attack took place you certain that was going yeah you know when you're working you remember that you were just 13 just like yesterday you can remember when you were certain because it was Sunday afternoon and we were listening to and friends who live about a mile away and I can remember one of their kids and I want to floor reading the fly paper when the news broadcast came out and.

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I knew it was. Pretty pretty bad but about 12 then I guess and then close the next day was when war was declared and there's all of the papers and everybody knew life in the pipe is our colored pipe to Roosevelt's the corruption of war speech in the old screw and we were not very much aware that we're.

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A lot of time with should have been just innocence and blueberries and what aren't into well where this yeah and. The high school years were totally different than the had been before and were after because it was all there and I was in high school right during the war.

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A critical time really interesting times you can remember the way you were old enough to remember it was going on so then you remember being affected by it what was rationing and are being as they call it and shortages of things that we had we had rationing of food in Tarzan and most all consumer goods were Russian So you were aware of that yeah and.

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Our sporting events and ask you a quick tale a great deal could you could travel very far so we just. Had competition with the schools pretty close. And it was even tough getting there because you had to try to decide how you would go and had school buses they know what he has room and didn't want to use for them that sort of thing and it was per We did not have an ask you land you know because the papers were not really were not available to get it printed all of those Frank places we didn't go or.

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That's really interesting and I don't know that it cuts back that far right kind of like a lot of small communities and old gymnasium barn the year I was a junior I guess so we had to go to heaven and deal just to practice basketball where you an athlete to get involved in all sports I was involved in all 3 of the one much of an athlete but I suspect it well no waiting for you to go but we were were small high school you and we played 6 man football the problem to her that I never did it was.

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A unique way to play. Radiated 1st right but most of the schools would have won the schools were not large enough to have a feel of the big teams on the dark and basketball Yashoda play basketball and baseball those are the 3 but you never got around and well but it was a small.

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What you're trying to tell me Is anybody could have played just about that but if you have a coach Prof respond Yeah well are difficult the school principal was the basketball coach and the football coach was also a teacher and. I guess we had a baseball coach. But sometimes it talking to gentlemen they'll remember their coach you know almost like a dad that is now because they took an interest well you had to go to coaching was not the principal's primary interest he just did it because it had to he had nobody else to assign it to the guy who's the football coach.

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Had some interest in it. So you actually learned a few things from your money but you didn't see yourself as becoming some star athlete you knew you were just doing it for the fun and then I don't remember many. Many coming out of that program in any of the schools and I hear that ended up that end up with a scholarship that's one of the west of the country like that right now I've heard tell that people all rallied for the war effort you know a small town forced us specially good like mine savings bonds lurking or collecting gum wrappers and stuff with that happening in your area to your love and I can remember going to a bond rally and at the courthouse square indicated where Bob Hope and Arthur Lemoore were the celebrities that that's pretty head d.l.l. it was it attracted quite a few people and they came to cater they came to help the solicitously a little war Bob and the whole thing was you know help your country and say I've seen the posters and you know heard people talk about but I didn't know to take it down to the small towns it really is at war bonds were given as gifts more than anything else probably do in that time though.

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They paid off would well I'm and I had a good rate of interest and it was good waited to see if you saw the whole thing work some how to do it and had words of. Amazing now you. You were good student you were doing fine you said your dad supported higher education he wanted you to college when did you start thinking that you might go to college or did you always know you would well I always thought it would and they always thought it would but given was and have to Georgia Tech and why was that would have enough money to go anywhere else.

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But then we were there now it is in Georgia and in Atlanta there were other colleges like Georgia Tech. It was the best when I. Got it. You know that whatever it is yes but yeah I didn't know for sure exactly what and it one time I thought I want to be a dentist and embrace had a dental school too but I'm having a bad sponsor me and I really couldn't afford it would have cost a fortune you wouldn't believe how much money I spent going to Georgia Tech Much money said you know my dad spent.

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Around $4.00 to $500.00 a year for 2 ish and books and that's a pretty good deal whether it was but it was there to help on his part but I lived at home and that's based on money but how did you get back and forth how that was that was a ordeal I was very fortunate in that we had a neighbor who lived across the road who worked for Texaco and his office was at the corner of West Peachtree and North Avenue and while he's got a people who always went to the office early so he always want to get to the office at 730 but you know we're always share a road with him and then walked down North Avenue to the campus and that I did that for the bulk of the 4 years I was very fortunate that getting home I thought was a different situation because I had classes some time it lasted till 6 o'clock and he was gone i then he was long gone and did you have Saturday classes yes he probably didn't work I did and I but you do that's why I don't I don't remember how I got it I honestly don't remember ever remember hitchhiking.

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It was a safe thing to do and I did it. I want to while I would see somebody when I was waiting for the bus in the street car that I knew so there was public transportation that went to talk or or to Clark Well it was round about what I had to get from the campus to downtown to get to the streetcar that was going where it's going to Stone Mountain and it went through Clark So there was there was a street car all the way from that land of the stoma and that's not that's now a bike and.

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I can try to pave all where they just to the road bed with the streetcar worry him saying I didn't know you could do that wow yeah that was a long ride in the long run it was a long ride and made for a long day yeah I guess it did and that was it expensive or how cheap host pretty I mean like maybe $0.15 down when you made up your mind you wanted to go to Georgia Tech had you been there did you ever go to the campus go to football games when your kids know so you were trying to get it just on its reputation without any more haven't investigated it and you were going to take it on with only 11th grade education right where I know you never got to trigger calculus you know you just had your basics confidence that we had we had we did have trigonometry but did not have calculus Ok And it's so you don't have a clue what you're getting into did you did it just like to well that I had to make matters worse and that this was the fall of night train for 50 my gosh all of that or some of the veterans were already there and the rest were coming.

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This was a dedicated group of people that some of the American family I had with children they had no time for messed around nothing at all all you wanted was an education and a job and many of them lived up in Marietta on the campus up there and want it and a lot of them didn't ever think they could get an education it was the g.i. bill that yeah build it so they were going to have to sign up for a campus was totally all the crowd is here you cut out the 16 years all the teacher student ratio was something that nobody would tolerate today.

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You were one of those kids that I hear the all gnarly retrofits talk about with the kids a lot of your classmates from 49 went to war 1st and then get that front row and they they just they would just assume walk right over you with this I wouldn't say I was in calculus class with a guy who would shut down for German her full I'm God how could you even relate to that a good mom and I was I was intimidated I was intimidated for 4 years.

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I think some of the faculty wasn't well they were because these are what we call gnarly old veteran even age was irrelevant they had seen death and so I was I was. Greatly afraid of a professional I mean he would like authority he was the thought of figures that he brought you was like a policeman or a judge or something like that you were these you were yes ma'am no there were you know these veterans I just about had all of the authority figures they want to deal with it so they dealt with the professors just like they would say who is anybody with that great role model for their work.

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But. They had a lot of bad ways to heavy drinking it down and smoking so that was a lot of that going on that was a bad example for you I'm sure you didn't do that you know every day not living on campus because I didn't have the.

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Same gun robbery with classmates that you would have living on campus but I got to know a few people fairly well and. They were aware of those guys yeah I got to be pretty good but is with a guy who had been on before 7 pilot during the war.

[00:40:45]
And about well he stayed in reserve and he would fly out of Dobbins Air Force Base and. He was. A pretty wild sort of guy I mean he was he played already stated Hardy dry and Hardy wrote it motorcycle or I you know when I'm back I know he went over an embankment on Peachtree road one night and they found him at the bottom of the hill not too bad her own circle was sort of messed up.

[00:41:17]
And junior year he was flying a p. $4.00 to $7.00 out of the band's Air Force Base and crashed on takeoff and when they got to he was he was in an area that had been cleared he was certain over on a stump waiting for home and a little blood tripped and that he had a set of eyes for the Air airplane was pretty well the ballast and then that same guy I know it was after I came to Tallahassee it was in I think 54.

[00:41:51]
I was eating breakfast one morning to rest and read the morning newspaper and read about these 4 pilots out of Atlanta in the Air Force Reserve who had been killed in a crisis the night before and he was one of us one of the all. I can thank a run of I probably will a bit later but there's a plaque to them that I that I'm aware of what Yeah yeah yeah because somebody wrote in and asked us to see if we could find them and that man would be something I would be looking up and I found it well he he married also in his change in year and the girl he married didn't put up with a whole lot of food and she changed his life and lately.

[00:42:36]
He said All is not all is well and they write right that's right so you can remember that and trying to remember it and if you don't if you don't I can send you the Forney of because I am their names on it. Tom what was it like to be a 16 year old and go into your classes at Georgia Tech Do you remember the 1st coming there I mean you didn't get assigned a dorm because you were home so you write comedy there you know how did you register for classes the 1st time did you go stand in line like that in the old gym and didn't have a clue did you then do you know what classes I wanted you to act how could you possibly be prepared I started as are called math in the band algebra which I was prepared for in about 03 weeks into the course must prefer sister son if you want to graduate George you don't have to.

[00:43:35]
But a foundation in mathematics he said you need to take a remedial course like we all for a noncredit course but he said Without it you go have a tough time was right he was right is one of the best legs I would it had I not done it I probably would have been down there even having taken a remedial was tough enough but it was all I could do to get the guy you got any case I missed a turn or story calculus you know it was a not a language people and differential equations was lucky I never even heard of such writing so I can't imagine being so well done and so in this that I mean it was so sheltered I had worked for 3 months with the Railway Express and there in Atlanta between ask you and we read everything I just thought I'm going in September and that was about the only.

[00:44:29]
30 minute there I ever wrote but I probably was more intimidated by some of these veterans when I was. Only one I have talked to other people that felt that I and they they didn't try to be intimidate is that they just were I mean they will just take care of my years older they had say an awful lot of the world I didn't know about a lot of them had been injured a wonder during the war were not boys they were men they really were Yeah they really were it's a heck of a saying to be intimidated by the faculty and stand by circus like I was it's and you're just like ground up and out and you didn't temple date those guys at 1st was it intimidating nobody did you know as a matter of fact I can remember an entrance I guess is one of the few times that Georgia Tech and University of Georgia have gone together totally united to take on a project and it was in the night.

[00:45:26]
47 I believe when Jane Talmage was still the governor. And through his the funding of some of the university this Georgia Tech in the verse you know taken off the national credit the right to work jeopardy of losing their right and here were these guys who had gone through or were trying to get an education when they found out that they were going to graduate and schools that were not accredited they raised skated well I'm a day we had a March on the Capitol there is a great bunch of them came in you were just a kid you know partner Yeah a bunch of them came over from Athens and we got together and marched on the Capitol and you know I don't know I know they were signing petitions they never hung and I said well not all of us want to graduate from school that we're not accredited You know this a focus on the last is not accreditation allow only lasted about 9 months and then that's a long time and I mean that's a long time that you know I don't like I don't think there were any graduation well.

[00:46:28]
It was no June graduation tonight paired with the big classes were not so nobody really graduated from manana gratitude universe to believe that was planned that way because of what was going on right that going to what you were so young to be caught up into all of that yeah you know so Bruce serious mood they were going to kill him I think.

[00:46:48]
What he never got elected again after that that he wasn't God What pretty short laugh but I think one of the I remember reading that one of the things they said is you know they will never reelected that down and he really blew it with us on around with when you have all been messing with I was in this joint like Marilyn political the battle going on that was very clever going he wanted to his own appointees in the right direction and he wanted his own budget knowledge on the regions he was messing with everything it was a total mess was now we all that's where you get your nose got on that they were they were to group and I think it's exciting that you got to March on the capital you must've been awful yourself doing now you know I don't know that much but we did create a slanderous only been a few of those things and tax history you know you were part of it yeah and it was you know as you said I don't mess with something that's so important that I don't really remember how many of the world I blew that were 2 or 3000 people that went on to know what we compiled look in the newspapers and I know going up that it may not have been quite that many but it was a good sized group and the police there well my dad a policeman would be estimating the crowd size that you know they were all my leg and they're up their point across Yeah you know you know by and large as you were going still in your freshman year now were you ever scared you weren't going to make it time that 1st year yeah.

[00:48:10]
Yeah I got a day by your class because I was by your faculty and I just can't I can't remember taking the catalogue down and looking at how many credits I had to have to graduate it was overwhelming and I thought I'll never get there there's just no way to do it and but then there's there was it was so crowded.

[00:48:28]
And there was so many in screw that nobody took less than 18 credit hours and minutes I had many a quarter where it was $21.00 I know some guys who took $24.00 I don't know that I ever did want to know but it was it was a full time and when I hear my grandkids or other kids they talk about 12 hours don't go to class to know that's all it's making when I do things ever I can remember Ben and Freddie little drown proof and calls for peace in my freshman year you did take it freshman year one or a quarter did you know how to swim yes I could toilet Well this is what I want my hands and feet.

[00:49:11]
But I took it there in the one a quarter and it was in the Pooh behind the ole ole gym and it was the 1st class I had every morning. How I Got It was and it's not like you slipped into a warm shower warmed the cat out what he had another glass start in the right after 910 minutes yeah I'm the time I got out I can remember several mornings that one of those and I had a crew cut back then they do hair would much of a problem but I can remember having ice in my hair because you from when I walked into the classroom and nobody cared nobody cared.

[00:49:51]
But did you surprised after all you did know I've seen grown men get teary eyed about that so there are people that were scared to death of it because they didn't know water you know not George that mammal a lot of water right that it was like there were that it was your mates there either it was mostly the veterans that were so overwhelming went right and they didn't have to take the job heck no nobody can tell me what it is like what I do and so they said but but not many yet so most of those in that class were young guys I may have I'm the guy from Lake Charles and some others who were in civil engineering because in the freshman year we did were pointed to a civil engineer as a matter of fact I started out in aeronautical engineering because of the time I started Tech I had my pilot's license you know when did you well that now there's a whole story we made there how how did you get a pilot's license well back on the same plot of land where we lived in the little house until my next door neighbor was a man who was whole to an automobile mechanic and worked with Mudd a head in the family but he was also a barnstormer on the weekend he and I had his own by playing a boy we're talking to Karen what can a bird know this is this is like 19.

[00:51:14]
Night team 34. And I took my 1st ride with him when I was about 6 years old and his wife would go with him on the weekend and they would fly out to these little towns in a low Georgian land and somebody is come past me Phillips Mr Phillips and they let you go for a ride here 6 years ago I went to let their fly on one side it is a flying close to home and I want to over and it was open cockpit biplane sure it was he said in the front passenger side in the back now vice versa he said in the back but I said it so his wife got in the cockpit with me she told you on her last night and they didn't have a helmet Valma So she held her hands under Larry here versus them and here are a couple of I forgot to slim Iran but you know kind of basic flying that was the day I was in I guess that's what you get bit by the desire to do I guess that's when the bug bit me and go see I was always interested in what he was doing and I'd go with him at times to as I got a little bit old to.

[00:52:25]
All these Bond film and weekend type yes I know you know he did but he. May be worn out of life and he had quit the barn Stallman by the time I got old enough to do it so I started taking lessons in the early 19th $45.00 I mean after he started Tech no way that he got out attack Ok now now before I had to wait in 45 No I was still in high school a graduate in my direction of more product make that the Ok I thought your high school so I was in high school 11th year and I didn't cost money you know it cost.

[00:53:07]
Well the reason I said it was 45 my instructors I had 2 instructors Arco one was my pappa jobs in the. Dick rushing bird they were both that are in from the Army Air Force and they'd come back and have a line to destroy they would instructors the only place to do that was a candle or feel on the whole you know a candle or feel is what it's like you know now it's hard to feel now to run with it on the south and west runway and they were both about 5000 feet long which is nothing not by the day standard few little hangars along the way and.

[00:53:49]
There were 236 base operators there who had Piper Cub in the 2 guys who are working for one and I got one it cost. $7.00 an hour to run a pipe. With with fuel and it cost $12.00 an hour flew in the truck to get $4.00 so I would work anywhere I could to slave up money and every time I'd get $12.00 or $24.00 I'd go take an hour block that high you were either petty like towards that yeah and i would you tell me about it.

[00:54:29]
I always amazed me that they let me do. That your mom what about Mon-El the road with me my dad rode with a one time and it was enough. But how many hours of instruction did you end up having to get to be a pilot Well I soloed in about 8 hours.

[00:54:49]
You get 8 hours us instruction and then you're on your own I don't think that's like that well I'm not complaining I was able to fly the 1st time bomb so I'd take small dual instruction for my private pilot's license a little bit less as a student pilot's license but I did almost 16 birthday my goodness which was the earliest that you could have a student I found myself in had the rules for going to say well they had somebody fly by that sat next to ours and because it was simple flying and as a kind as a student pilot you could fly alone or you could fly with someone who had another student pilot or private that was that show that the rules say that others did well it was very safe I had another friend in this little town where he lives who had his student pilot's license and you guys would save your money we would save our money and it would split the I would go fly for an hour and he'd fly have a load mudslides of it because you love it there much of it just loves it and it was simple fine yeah and simple living there were not a whole lot of the airspace restrictions about it so you didn't have one little thing when you came to Georgia Tech you had your pilot's license right but I bet you didn't tell very much.

[00:56:05]
To another. Part of it and then know that it was your little secret that I kept flyin a little bit during that 1st year. That's why I don't join the Finder and almost 17th birthday I got my private pilot license and then probably just a little bit after that I didn't do very much line folk what it was when I would imagine you didn't have a lot of you in that once you start school again this neighbor was still flying not barnstorming but he was flat out of a little airport in red land I would fly with him occasionally but I want to appear there from 4 to 6 through.

[00:56:48]
Up and. Sixty's where did their little flight. Had intended to go and therefore has an hour to see it to get ahead of years Ok Right now it's a difficult. Time here you are now we've got you through your 1st year which you must have thought of as a miracle right if you were still there.

[00:57:23]
It wasn't easy for you you were transportation hassles you were you had your studying at home which is never never never easy now and you've probably had to learn how to study because most people that come out of a high school really don't know what is going to happen to them when they get attacked and it's a different way of learning right I've been I've heard it referred to as the fire hose.

[00:57:46]
If you feel that way so it's not overwhelmed with everything as I let you perseverance stuff there for your 2nd year did you have to declare a major at some point in time you thought about aeronautical map how we start talking about it I declared it early in the sophomore year aeronautical Stone article and it just are taking some of the 8 classes began to take a couple of the fundamental classes and then tonight Dean 47 which is couple years after the war realize another they graduate a good job.

[00:58:18]
Although all the crap about the fact remains true mind all aircraft manufacturers and shut down all work curtailed and these guys were having trouble finding out there were people that were very experienced and relax right what was your shot at Yeah so I along with another guy who'd had same experience I did start out her nautical we decided we'd go for civil because it had so many different disciplines that we could choose from so it turned out to be a great decision for me I'm really good at it in your heart you knew you were an engineer of some kind I guess you know I only had that one thing and that was there any professors at all that were mentors to you or even remotely interested in you I mean you were struggling with recognition and have group there I'm sure you've heard this before but but and one of the early orientations will when you know where you sit here and say you're less than like literally have a look you're right the 2 of you will be here for years my and it was pretty much that was these professors I'm not I'm not being critical of them know it but know what but they had more than they could handle it say my life told is true that the teacher ratio is really high and they really just didn't have too much time for people so it was really survival of the Fed if I really really was and.

[00:59:45]
If I if I regret it Georgia Tech with anything it would not be in a good teaching me to be a good engineer is teaching to survive. I mean actively that hits the nail right on the head you learn to solve problems to think and to endure but that's about it that's about it because all the odds were against you making it and they just kept pounding you on the head with that over and over and over again and the campus was tough it wasn't like it is now I mean you know you have a student better unit you didn't have anything you were strictly on your own which you recover make out of it over toward the goal that logic still come in with some qualms with her.

[01:00:25]
Classes and it's now I didn't know that I had fire over is that well it was do toward a better alleged camp. Back then the campus is very small and nobody had any inclination no thought to have a baby but we will move past it and learn untold always be that way and there were even people homes and stuff that were intermingled on campus right did you ever go across to the alumni house what we call it now that it was the why is she little pull over the l a half times so that you have full tables of it had those labels up on the 2nd floor in spring.

[01:01:01]
Now in your day you still went up the stairs in the front to get to what we call the mezzanine right that was the 2nd floor and right place I'm told there was a barber shop there that there was a pool table that a lot of the student organizations met there did you have any of those kinds of activities not at Arco I can remember going over there when I had a of glass and the dish hole hanging out a little bit but that's in the 1st year and it was not a very political place say that it was well used at that basic real basic it is it that opened in 1011 but even at that it got hardware right there in real hardware there wasn't much for you to do in the way of recreation on the campus not that you were hanging around finding any but I really would have been even if you don't remember one thing there was was a s.s. dancer or big deal in those days did you ever go to what a normal and don't regret the why go no.

[01:02:02]
That was a big deal I allot of the veterans other than other than going to class which restricted make quite a bit I don't remember many functions on campus that I attended I'm sure I did but I just don't recall many I'm not sure who did and I don't have the one now but for you to.

[01:02:22]
You didn't have a social life there that really did you have a social life anywhere Were you dating a little girl who had had to football games because when I found out I had tickets but the inevitable get there but I was my job I didn't want to go and that was back in the day as we say when you dressed up for Game It was respectful you know Bobby job was there it was coach Alex still read coach also if you want me around look to you nothing director and you have to let it direct and yeah pretty good teams after the war heads bird to Dame Durden war Rocco said unable to see guys that were playing on the team and so your time there there was actually good teams well.

[01:03:07]
But ecstatic problem mediocre due in the late forties now the good teams started developing early not just the early 56 later that's when they really had for your time yes do you had to wear red hat always your own you remember that you very much so you were the kind that would never have defied or they're not O's.

[01:03:30]
We're afraid now so I don't think people understand that and I don't think they understand that you didn't what you were told because that's the way you were brought up and there was that fear with Noel and and and you protected to I remember the Auburn group cable one year when we were freshmen and man if you live in Auburn ghastlier here at Camp you in bigger trouble than you were if you'd shot the governor I guess on my count that I was it was a big deal yeah I'm been told even that going where in public somebody could.

[01:04:01]
Protected it was a bad of honor at the same time big obligation. And so you did go to the so fucking That was one social thing and it was always on Saturday and always on Saturday afternoon until you could count sometimes I have a class on Saturday morning in the lab before the board and you hang on and stand the cancer man.

[01:04:22]
Did you haven't you said last that makes me think that shot classes did you ever taken a shop class or were they already gone by your time most of them will go on the model we had chemistry Lael been as a can engineer and Leben physic Lemon in general I always like getting what shop classes are found now I didn't I didn't do you remember seeing Uncle Jaime around anywhere because I know you are mentally and him he was he was a legend even then relax on but no head in the class of the beginner see him now you did get to see if you know it was kind of peculiar looking he was so angry or he didn't pass on 151 project is definitely there during your time I can just remember seeing him but now I just want to play Dr Smith d.m. Smith in the last department I had to add one class and how you did you know what I'm told that he was probably one of the finest teachers ever to claim he was right and he was great and that what year was was he great in the classroom as a teacher you felt he was and he was a.

[01:05:20]
He could be real casual or he could be very formal depending on what he needed to be he wore the same black suit the whole 40. Years Try 30000 you know and not shop best all over and he drove a fairly old automobile and I remember the park next to the administration building he was a character in your time you really want to carefully because he had a purpose is there lay up he served on the athletic board and he was he was tutor for this right we always felt like he was partial to the athlete was all right he did I don't think he.

[01:06:00]
Did anything that was not the. Little. Boy but he would spend a lot of time with him to be sure that. That they made a great. Vested interest so to speak and a good example as if you know he was a had been thought Bill and is or read a new I found that out I really yeah he was a he was a vaudeville performer and that left a little insight into that says a human Yeah I had it I'm told it was it could be rather entertaining in the class yeah lot of dry wit I mean and and he would.

[01:06:35]
He would chastise a person but he did it in such a way that it was amusing to the person and everybody everybody else has been made fun not to know that not only this but and another character professor that was there at your time with Glen Rainey did you have a plan ready for use as your persuasion or had had him for.

[01:06:59]
One English class I guess you remember that there are no I that would move the that was the duck. What he was I when I 1st got taken by said you ought not to leave the less you get not miss at least one class and I was 14 of do this some never were able to do it but I was looking at the work that you were fortunate to have him because he truly is a legend and reading was pretty much on the line too because he was so very funny he was a funny man and they tell me I have had guys tell me that they felt like they could have paid money because they were so intertainment and then other guys tell me if my mamma knew what he was saying.

[01:07:38]
You know it out because I guess it was never on got away with murder we had some really and it was not got Heinie that tradition of those all kind of professors is really a great part of Georgia Tech and I remember Dr Atkins daughter who headed up the sea screw and ducks ours Dr Sours is fals very empty is coming this is all messed around with the reputation Yeah so I guess our ship he was pretty interested in you kid yeah and he was so I was the 1st time I really came to understand how college professors.

[01:08:14]
Work outside the university because I can remember a time of 2 he couldn't make it to Monday class because he'd been flown to. Somewhere somewhere as a consultant and he was quite a sold soul to expert when you lose that did that give you more respect for them that you know something and then much I think it has a certain amount of a grantor to the I've seen it abuse here if it's you I mean I've seen full professors out been a friend I did as well yeah and starting in there in their own entrepreneur who's running their own businesses but back then there was that they really were there was a p.r. consultant yeah and about them and it was a little of what they were able to teach you because they were getting real world experience and that was a wise thing and most of them were writing and publishing papers to get right on their topics and I remember ducks ours had.

[01:09:08]
A club had hired him to for some big salt problem Milwaukee and that was a long way away and he told us about it dollars what some of the problems were which was over most of I did but it was interesting yeah a lot of. Credibility Did you ever going to library and run into this crowd long yes she was a lot of like Linda and God Grover had so you didn't see her around to know that it the big lab or.

[01:09:37]
The Carnegie you know she was so clever with what he did during that time period I mean I'm in awe of her she was a woman before her time and she was well respected the fact that you actually saw her I would identify her as the thrilled to meet us she was great she really bought people around the Sunday and it was her library and it was in the pram which Mary was her librarian and they were there too for good grades I did.

[01:10:04]
That but she worked so hard to get that library thing placed and you know I don't realize I don't think back at the time realize what a huge thing she did for that library 57 years later is still that's classic you know wonderful building and it was all her doing he made the money she made and have been you know.

[01:10:23]
Although that isn't it right for you were there in a very rich time for it was well. George Griffin was there yeah and did you I didn't you know we didn't have too much interaction with him but you knew he was not meeting any trouble well not a lot that's right that you didn't get in any trouble.

[01:10:43]
You were good but he was can remember some stories where he helped the guys who really knew what had just been hard up to that for you know what that's right that's so as well you want to have his hip pocket fine and if you if you had.

[01:10:57]
I remember a couple of guys had some really issues with professionals and they'd go to Optus to join us about it and then like in a couple cases we understand having time to put in a good word and I would just say it evaluated themselves and decide if it moved yet by today's standards that would be good over years now.

[01:11:16]
But if that is how we get out that's when he went on with that you know he had over this and do what you need to do and he was really it has such a marvelous reputation in the interviewing of the privilege I have interviewing people like you for a job placement finding job read Ajax was quite a carryin he was another character between the 2 of them you know we had the earliest times I went in the country and one of the best and one of the best ones and to this day 10 years ago but after that George shared his job placement out so far that I had guys tell me he got them jobs when he did what.

[01:11:49]
They wanted the rep that is if you graduated and you got at least one job offer and by God it was a veterans coming back then you already graduate from Tech now coming back looking just step in and say hello to him and get him a job even though because it was a lot of time off you know I can remember hearing him say but but but Sir do you know I don't want to work right now I want some time to read sit up get a job in the.

[01:12:13]
But it would be pretty crass bagman term of the technique could get a little bit raucous there was no law so we had a professor and and I can't remember his name but he had a little bit of a tic like my God and then me well he left Tech and went to Auburn and sort of made it but I'm a head now this was.

[01:12:38]
Maybe the year before I got to go but he stayed about 3 years and then he came back to take and I don't remember meditating they had led what I remember was what to say had led to a chin is back in. And they got away with bad boy the whole room of a man to chastise them for but it was it was I thought my gosh we had sad but it was the old yes I was there during your time you're one of the few who know that you went there you know people will tell me right through the 50s that they knew about we know they did it Dad 47 as she was it was she like you and I saw her that you know you were there right along at the best time of the history and that should mean I knew her real mongrel out a little short this week got some great pictures of her and I could see it so funny because I was always he even she was really as we have a good authority as they say that Chester Rush is the one who brought all that history out he went on the ride for articles and shared with us so we could actually find out that no sideways didn't live for 10 years with only 2 I think and here in the 50s that dog was dead 1st over there and they said all those.

[01:13:57]
Crazy crazy it's their need to associate yourself with something that's legendary and I'm sure we've all done to them a little Yeah I hope it was it was stuff to spare and then sideways got in there stuff always been something Britain dining hall was a good place to eat lunch I mean you actually when there aren't a nice deep breath which will lift all the girls that want to go home but always a luxury there it was reasonable we've heard a lot of funny names for over the years.

[01:14:23]
And speaking of Britain that he was just he was and is the climate he had stepped down as president he actually should have before the war but didn't until after the war and that's when then there came a right of a leader. Then Lir was there during my time yeah did you ever have enough to meet him or see him I don't know what you mean the least we saw him I don't even know military man never had an interaction with him but again you know we had some good times like one clear and feelings like that which would imply that that he was.

[01:14:59]
Kind of a disciplinary in a real or aggressive sot about Lux that used to hang nicknames on just about everybody and I love with it to him a little how would you say that how would you say fine let blog clear why the German l.o.l. he was he was a good president he was like you are like you know you see them just quick I think so because 11 he was the one who instigated the women coming to catch him when he was so opposed for so long and it took a man who had a daughter to know the value of now Brooke moving on I got to hand it over to name the dining hall for what it was named for him I think earlier where very early on.

[01:15:40]
But I was thinking of the nicknames again Ptomaine Palace or the other when I dated Hash House now another way was what was there North Avenue. In the way of commercialism I know the part that he was there and of course the expressway with not know you were closer to town that the whole campus was it was like the test was a movie theater there and juniors you remember that genius came after me starting 47 well didn't he as somebody it was caught it was somebody else running it not the family it is not the Clinton you talk about own campus I don't know they have no no i North Avenue Do you know that in the summer is not a remember Jamie is one of 9 when Tommy Columbus's father took it over but it had been there for a couple years under you know greasy film whatever they call that you know so with pastor that was before your time and you don't remember the tech would leave that was on the corner there of North Avenue and Ted was.

[01:16:37]
I believe yeah that yes got a lot of pictures of it but I remember the tech would develop on all the while that was ran out of the way they handle this was right on North Avenue I don't know why don't you know and I know that one well maybe it came after your time I don't know I think I can remember I can remember going down North Avenue that morning class and I still 947.

[01:17:01]
And I start low and I mean I realized I'm everything was covered and you still came and I came to school most of the classes canceled. But yet and North Avenue down that hill was a really expensive. Really was the power and some of the power lines were down and that was because of the cancellations places like that it was it used to say it was a big snowstorm and ice storm to be gone or we've not experienced one of those but I've heard about them but they're legendary just like right out for ice storm and a lot of indirect Abaco today can really be an.

[01:17:45]
You've got into civil engineering and you did well you felt much better about yourself that did you find I mean when you were high school you got good grades did you have good grades good good when you got to Georgia Tech did you find yourself lowering your standard.

[01:18:01]
Well the competition with a good bit higher ups like I think I did up with I think I had about a 2.8 when I go well you were almost a genius No that's great no are you kidding me 2.8 that some of the 3 boys that was really good for the time especially with the competition I remember.

[01:18:21]
Flunked the thermodynamics course that's only one I remember flunk and I dropped $11.00 when I was headed to a trial last started over but if I might even let a truth get into the ground it was the right place for my head in math and physics with a with the toughest.

[01:18:39]
But you know you conquered and you got what you got into your major and were doing your c.e. classes you felt like you belonged and you made the right decision and you hung in there and worked ever all those very fortunate people who was who had no choice as to what my vocation would day but I loved it and it worked out great it's funny that you said that you didn't have to think about it or I don't want to do it if I happen I mean it was either Georgia Tech or nothing yet and just and make the best so that it worked out yet worked now all good things come to an end although you weren't thinking they were very good things at the time but you finally had enough credit and you were right on target for years you stayed 400 which is pretty remarkable what school one summer to make up for the remedial my ass in that sort of thing early years and then I had to carry heavy to go to our o.t.c. camp until after I'd graduated I see so that that Bochy some time in which branch of the arrogancy did you sign up for air force so that you were Air Force all the way and I had planned to make a career later for that a psycho healer distinguished military student which gave you the option of taking up permanent that was a crisis nation which military right you put that on your web page.

[01:19:59]
But it didn't work out that way no and the reason it didn't I want to Dobbins to take my Air Force surgical and I couldn't play last because the problem. Did you know you had eyebrows not adept at one time I mean that they want but I just couldn't could make standard so I get a real picky by then there were has the world there sorry but sorry not decided well if I can't fly I don't want to be an Air Force One on the desk jockey so I opted not to go on active duty when I went and that's when you did take your last 3 years of out to Caesar or did you take the last 2 years no I thought it was always well for you that was a way to earn a little bit of money to me and when I was not in line with helping the unit mine officers they drove no one you know farmers on all that but I thought Ok so when you graduated when you actually got out completed your requirements you had to wait until a June what was that the right time for you in June to graduate show that I graduated in June and where did we hold graduation this foxy it was at the 5 I thought my class was the largest ticket ever had to date I'm sure that a large amount sent to him so many likely around 1800 and that was because there were so many veterans that come into the early group of veterans who are graduating this did your parents come to you right so you know they were much happier and so most people when they graduate also get a commission you're not getting a commission that yeah I got a commission in reserve You did it there for the Air Force Reserve Russia right and happened that commissioning ceremony the right before right after you.

[01:21:40]
Seem like have no camp this just before graduation and those were also the days when you actually got your diploma Yeah it was real real it right what were you thinking you were going to do did you go through Georgia and h.s. Steen edge access placement services you signed up for that I did and I had seen several interviews and.

[01:22:04]
That's pretty good well it wasn't because there weren't that many jobs there plus of labor but they were again I was in very picky and did you get any any visit that site that you meant to to the eye openers sent to somewhere no I had the only offer that I got was from the punch line railroad and they came down to tick for the interview and they didn't ask you to come back and see where you were going to work it was the.

[01:22:35]
General Manager of the eastern region and. I had a pretty fair interview and he said the Sun is one thing I want you can understand he said we've been hiring guys from the south on the punch line real road for a number of years and he said they come up there we teach him how to handle the railroad in the 1st line we know they're back working for a railroad industry he said if we offer you this job and you take it and you don't like it you're the last.

[01:23:10]
Week of the risk of like a little pressure but and I said Well Ok then you found that you were so young you want to 20 years old. And I knew I had been very far out of Georgia that time no I bet not I bet not and you were going to go and I'm assuming the Pennsylvania because that's where the right is to Downingtown Pennsylvania which about 30 miles west of Philadelphia and I had a big steamer trunk that I packed everything up on the minute and shipped it on the railroad up there I went why even knowing what you were getting in no not no it was go live heavily and I went up there in.

[01:23:52]
September and. Then not come home again until the following. Christmas a year state 15 months before even getting the never came home the 15 some what happened when you showed up up there you took a train to get up there probably is this they sent me a pass on take me to get off the train and here I am yeah I'm late they told me who reported to the division manager and.

[01:24:20]
And this is my new housing he. Did help me find a place to rent a room with a widow lady who's. At the front of the movie who was probably a bad 70 years ago and her name was Mrs Rajesh and it was a 40 so you got a room and spoke it well no no I'd eat out all I had was put a little room to sleep in and I don't think she really was interested in taking it aboard except it meant a little bit of money and money.

[01:24:52]
But you don't know or you. Well know she was she was fairly friendly but she just did and I didn't have any any commendations like to have just the room and I did all my meals out and my real hospitable. My boss was only about 9 years older than I was and he had a wife and 2 small children and I got to know them very well.

[01:25:18]
Is with them good bit he made you make yourself a little group there what did you do handle 15 months learn I did well they moved around a lot I was genuine or near and I stay there Downingtown for probably 2 or 3 months September then came. December they had a big snowstorm up in the the mountains of Pennsylvania and they had to take a lot of people from throughout the railroad and send them up there to help repair the transmission lines and communication to you know I didn't know that I went up there to take care of the logistics for the work crews that were coming in and I had a crew.

[01:26:02]
From Trenton New Jersey who was send there to repair the communication line to come down and look them and all I was supposed to do was take care of the housing and their food and I didn't know much about what it was they were trying to do. And that was one of the real she said you cations of my life I bet it was I spent people from all over I spent a week with those guys and it was the roughest bunch of guys I like that was in my no more innocent little time after that.

[01:26:40]
I didn't know where the war can I knew they were between 2 mile posts somewhere so I go up on this trying and I tell the conductor that I need to get off and I'll post such and such and he dumped me off right out in the country snow they had one suitcase and they dumped me off at this mile post and I knew that we had passed work and so they had to be followed so I started walking up the road track and when I got within earshot they saw me coming and I heard one of the air comes another one of those young damn engineers who knows everything.

[01:27:24]
So I got to think I got a real good stuff boy and they are my boss and told me before when up they said you know we've got all our safety rules and they would get it in step on the rails and you didn't but you did drive the national He said it's going to be cold up there these guys don't be working 161718 hours a day he said if you see somebody would a flask in this bug and just don't get too excited.

[01:27:54]
Well that was good advice probably it was because. They put a whale out a look at the. Key for themselves or know it was there any breeze to finance and that was a real eye opener for you it really was. On the job about 4 months so they moved around a good bit I lived.

[01:28:16]
When I got married I had lived in 17 different places between the time I left the old take. Jack and I married. There were short stays a lot of time but like I went to the laboratory and. Altoona Pennsylvania which was the railroads Les Abend I had a training session there was in Philadelphia for a while at the Asian had called the so you know I was just a junior and they were already a thing and I didn't How did you work for them I worked for them almost 2 years and I did and that's when I got called active duty it was a busy busy 2 years that went away and I don't know much about railroading but I knew they were doing something wrong and I knew that they're not see they were yes I knew the railroads were in big trouble and I didn't quite know what the unions had taken over you see the waste it was very bureaucratic so they had no cost containment policy well they felt they had some but but they couldn't manage him and he was going to listen to you Well I didn't really know I just knew there was a lot of waste and there was a lot of redundancy and a lot of a lot of.

[01:29:29]
Bureaucracy that it was just just killing them I mean they they were going to survive and sure enough the all the way was just a pencil line it was all of they just let the times go past them and the trucking industry and the airline industry to sort of.

[01:29:45]
Basically put him out of it so when I left to go on Air Force now well let me just say it that way you can you you've got summoned you've got it you've got called Yeah I got all of us terrific they didn't find you well they had my records because I was still in reserve and they kept in touch so that wherever you were you know I was so I still report to Fort Dix New Jersey for the 1st quote.

[01:30:10]
And it was not if they just sent me to the place nearest where I was in and you've already had a physical and had done well on that one years well over 4 hours of flying to this client but I didn't have a problem with the regular physical so you just have to turn it into the railroad you've got to go yeah and they do or they did have a control over how did you know that they didn't know they gave me a leave of absence and my job was assured when I was there again because the Korean War started early fifty's in this region a place that probably not for that and that you reported up to New Jersey for your dictatorship and less physical 1st than that they those characterized now those who 1st and then the tone I'd get to go back in get read it I'd get my orders in about 2 weeks so I went back and you go back and say Here you go along well I went back to the job punch landed with a lift within about a week and went home and I got my oldest report to gunnery Force base in Montgomery Alabama where you were still going to see them out and then know yet again you know so you went to the Air Force that you know you wouldn't have been through a book camp so you were going to be all right you know book Air Well I was a 2nd lieutenant then as go through boot camp from a little while I lived in the back lot of the school it was I had been to our o.t.c. summer camp which was a little bit like still to do with that but.

[01:31:40]
So you got to live in opposite quarter whatever this is it was like a cheap motel no. It wasn't bad they were good and. I was. Assigned to. What the Army called Post engineers it just might not it's. And so they were going to use your education yeah yeah they definitely kept to it you know the pretty silly thing about it let's sort of well matched people up by that time and had you met Jack yet Now Ok so you're in the service No I'm the the school of aviation medicine which was based in Randolph Air Force Base in Texas had a nurses screw at gunner Air Force base in Alabama.

[01:32:29]
So we'd get a new class of nurses coming through every 6 weeks old it was tough they. Might do us a little more so you know I try they have right and then the only look good I had to look at and cause all the all the nurses were 2nd lieutenants or both so well I had access to the office club and it was well much more going on right there yeah around it not better and you were there for how long I was there for several months I came of exactly how long and then I went to she knew their Force Base to the Air Force Institute of Technology and took a 5 month both graduate course which then get me into degrees but it got a little boy education which would work but then again I'm not it's not a bad duty you know and then here and when I left there I was stationed in Eglin Air Force Base in west Florida doing the same thing I've been doing that you are lacking when I was little Barry and then when I left there for he was still at Eglin and.

[01:33:37]
That was. 2 and a half years that all get together and then I just that was the point I decided I would not go back to the railroad wanted he said I just didn't see the future in it so I wrote him a letter and resigned which meant you had to look for a job.

[01:33:52]
Well I'd already been offered one by the time I wrote my letter of resignation I was better to have a job without a hedge a little bit to the lot for Georgia Well there was a construction project going on. At the base that was. Basically the. First steps in launching rockets and this contract was to build in a bunch of the a group of rocket launchers they call them back then they were just in class and tracks that propelled the rockets often and these grand larceny or what do you think contract constructive thing yeah it looks more like a railroad track inclined and the rocket would sit at the bottom of it and then fired off and shoot up in air and it goes some distance this was the real real early stages and I had nothing do with that except managing Inspecting and watching the contractor who was building these so it's just like you describe your daddy all of.

[01:35:00]
Us and the guy on things the guy who's the vice president of that company was overseeing the work and he was a cave man. I got to know him fairly well and he will know what I was going knew I was getting that he will know what I was going to do when I got out there for them and they didn't plan to use it I would like to come to work for us and we needed.

[01:35:23]
No the engineers would like to have. And what was the name of the company that was trying to construct. And that was lookin well the home office with a grain of South Carolina and there was an office in Tallahassee and that's where this guy book walked into the station he was a vice president of triangle and he ran the Tallahassee office and that's the good argument out that Ally and.

[01:35:49]
That's how it happened and. How I actually went to work for them on that job site. Before I can tell I said just as they finished it up so you mustered out of the service and moved to state right there well it's a name that where we were should know where is that.

[01:36:14]
Eglin Air Force Base Clint if we were Ok I moved off but it did not in Miami know it's in west Florida between Pensacola and Destin a case of this area near destiny Ok if you're still uncertain but so you read up to it yourself I just floor I just moved found a room again you were getting pretty adept at doing well and this will really stink to this latest husband was in the Merchant Marine hardly any but in the March for that you had she had 4 children and her mother or his mother all lived in a real large house their own Chuck to watch a baby talk to hatch a day and she read mail room upstaters And yeah night my meals out but I lived in it was extra income for her ideas and by just that her good at that and her husband was at sea most of the time and.

[01:37:13]
So I lived there for a few months before transfer to finish that project when the classic. Well Tom what was it like to be living out there on a bank this enjoy it it was great that was where I 1st experienced the hurricane no that wasn't great no you know but what was it like well we had some warning that it was coming and we.

[01:37:37]
Secured the job as best we could and let everybody go home and I remember going back to the place where I was staying and as a road by I saw nobody getting very excited about hurricane. Well I had a baby so I go back to the map and I waked up to go to dinner and on the way back up good little town people would just mail in the plywood and clothes and everything down and I decided that.

[01:38:07]
Id to go back to the room make a love story short the family was livid with I had experienced through 3 hurricanes before in the side they were going to stay there they're working on a different drive. Well not having men through on either side like I'll leave it like I just.

[01:38:27]
Saw till later that is all moving and that I'll go grab up in south Alabama so. I'd be back sometime later on. This time they decided maybe they ought to go to so we had a caravan of 2 cars. The grandmother the mother of 4 children me and 2 dogs you know I saw.

[01:38:55]
You didn't even know where you were going just out of town head up into South Alabama and had to go as far as up Alabama before we'd find a place to welcome the cellco everybody was a row chanted Yeah for bumper a little bit but we left little bit later than we should but anyway I ended up sleeping in the baller room of the hotel that was put in a cot and there better then that storm that was the only place to sleep and get a storm to live then.

[01:39:24]
On purpose days I've ever seen in my life was the day I went back to the job after the hurricane it was just like the world had been swept clean in it which is nice and pretty and bright we had not very much damage there. So when all it was probably a quick question I don't know what that means and then says that job was over move Tallahassee in and with the company it was a major triangle contract and and so you settled into the did you run a room again or did you not part as well my boss's wife found a room with a widow lady who is the widow a federal judge who had passed away a couple years before Mrs Wallace and.

[01:40:10]
She was a very nice lady and again no Mildred I just to this place to sleep and I had it out all the time and. Stayed there for about 6 or 7 months and then was transferred down to Perry Florida which is about 50 miles southeast now has it Procter and Gamble had built a real large pulp mill there.

[01:40:42]
Major construction was over in. Our little cup and I had been working to a drum to do some work in that mill and. Convention that we would all be the contract to follow the original contract through all their might and new construction and they gave us a contract to do that.

[01:41:05]
So I went on the job down there on the. Black. 17th of July while the other contractor was still in residence and still working and. Then they terminated them in about 2 weeks and we walked in there with about 30 craftsman and. Worked there for the next 40 years all my work you're kidding now until Wow sanitary carry Florida and what did you get some place a little more substantial the listener while there was a hotel that was.

[01:41:46]
Yeah it was a fairly old hotel it's the refurbishment of Dimes and slim but. Did you not get the feeling you were putting down roots somewhere in the know you are not yet no no no way to do that and I had. We were working in the. Middle there and I was a.

[01:42:07]
System project manager and. Had plenty to do I had a cousin who's being married in life and I was coming up for her wedding and in. Their knowledge time Jackie had finished university Joe just this week we've had a mixed marriage for 52 years and that we're not worried but.

[01:42:35]
She had worked with my cousin and he didn't know if I did know or never met her but she asked jacket and all the brides book or some chore at the wedding in the matter at the wedding and. My aunt my cousin's mother had been saying for a long time that I ought to meet this young lady so other people where well yeah you know those things yeah work how cool you matter everybody that's both a good one but somebody had already got to got to meet and talk to a little bit to know that she's living in Atlanta and you're living in Paris and back then there was no I said me fine and Highway $19.41 which is a little lower this drive and.

[01:43:28]
Told I'd be back to a little like syrup again but a lot of some of it but when I got back to Perry we had a sort of a disaster many disaster in the mill and we had. A lot of extra work and working around the clock weekends so I know to contact you for almost 6 weeks you've been in the Hall No she probably thought you were chip go yes but anyway I colored dollars coming up.

[01:43:58]
For the express for seeing her well my folks were still living in that area so I'd come up with them and. See if you want to go football game with. Modernized. So that was your 1st official date on of the a lot Well I think so I'm not so.

[01:44:19]
Well I'm. Sorry about it Ok All right take her to a Georgia Tech football they were playing Georgia that I know is in it Ok and you hit it off pretty good hit it off pretty good and after that I had a couple of weeks and then it finally.

[01:44:39]
Evolved into a routine of where I would leave Perry. About 6 o'clock on a Friday afternoon drive to Atlanta every week it. Boys get to Atlanta about $111130.00 go by her place which done a couple hours together and then I go out to my folks and would do what I was there graphically undesigned.

[01:45:05]
We were good enough tires all we were doing what I would do on Saturday and Sunday went to church together and then I'd leave the back to turn around and go back well I'd leave about midnight on Sunday night and drive probably night and go to work only on Monday morning book and that's right if I could do it in a but we did that for several months and I was out an automobile and I finally decided we had put in.

[01:45:34]
So I took what 7 months to cook to do the courtship part. And us to finally the Marriott and that was after all a tech go to football game and a simple overnight and the last of the games and miserable weather cold soda raining and. We lucked froze to death and driving back to Latin.

[01:46:01]
At our side I didn't ask you to marry me and you did in the car well we got back to near Atlanta stop in Stone Mountain. And than and then went out on the. Just tell my man well that improved good. Night was a little bit romance but that's when I popped the question Do you have a ring for her yes yes I had gone I had one that I had what I got well and I had already talked to her dad I mean she knew it was coming some time but.

[01:46:38]
She was from Tifton and when she would come to visit her folks I would go up too so it's not that far you got to know the visit with them got to know her mother and dad and. What what what what did you pick for a date now this is December May 1st.

[01:46:58]
My friend like you so you are still on the road again only live our life or that automobile out as you get married test and then at her home place and her home blown home church on May 1st 1905 Ok thank you she had never been to Paris and I bought a little house down there without telling her yes.

[01:47:23]
It was it was a big house like I said a little. It was like 1200 square feet was a modest sized concrete block just very earth charming Her dad was in the furniture business as well as a drug. Stores and so he foreigners to whole house for less than $500.00 all for good.

[01:47:52]
I had it shipped down and put in. I took a parent she knew there was on near the coast she couldn't vision was a Florida beach. Because been in the panhandle that is no big in then I quite like that she found out very quickly that she was going to have a bad relent Lord and she also found out very quickly that.

[01:48:17]
Being married into the construction business didn't give you any privileges at all we had the one car and I remember 1st week 2 she needed to go somewhere and I told just color kale. And they had been so used to the construction people who'd been there for 3 or 4 years stiffen a moan just about everything that happened they would not take a year in the town and to pay 1st aid for pride I think what am I doing here well I think I think we were there for about 2 weeks before the 1st neighbor ever visited us and she was just about to go that for Jack had she had a job when she was up and Mrs I mean and Lana Yes yes she had she had worked with the student department at the Florida Georgia Baptist Convention and she had been with a lot of people all the time so and all the sudden here has also been a 1000 like nothing and I was working every day and you're probably workin out lot I was because I'm sure you were a lad and one long after that that we got our 1st dog my office man and raisin.

[01:49:30]
Cocker spaniels and you got a dog out of Roz a dog home for her to take there that you so much given time bored and restless. In. First child was born Tom in September 5th 6 and. Had made life pretty busy from then on it in yeah once you got his yelling and then as a youngster close together an age yet relative little bit too early yet Kim was just 11 months younger than Tom k. and then David but 3 and a half years behind that.

[01:50:08]
So we know what Jackie was doing and we're getting her this year and that we did the house and ferry from where we we did. For a little while and then during that time my jacket mother passed a bloody and. She had a long term illness and when they found out it was terminal her dad was retiring so they moved to Paris really let them down so they could be close by right and go she passed away in period they'd been living there probably 6 or 8 months and when she passed away so now we just we could be right with her own children and.

[01:50:50]
Because the 2 young babies it was part of. This was this was 158 and her dad had started building a house they different an apartment when they 1st got it he started building a house and when i'm other passed away he. Said no they might well he finished the house and said we'll do so I just live with you know it's all move in there.

[01:51:16]
So it was is his house but we moved in with him and. Pretty quickly that that was no work he was pretty head trauma and I guess I was a little bit Jackie's got right in the middle of all of that but fortunately for him and all of us even married in about 18 months and he met somebody in Paris know it was a somebody not a you know I'm from Tifton that he had known years before and.

[01:51:46]
Jackie said that's probably the only thing preserved by marriage she was glad to see him again for a relationship so then he moved away yes left and when I haven and I just stay in that house we stayed there until. 1962. We got a contract with Procter and Gamble to build a plant in Augusta Georgia in.

[01:52:13]
But this time I had become the project manager on that working period and. My boss walked into decided out of the project I did on the job and I gushed and I won but 32 years old and I. Were nervous about that but in the end it worked out very well so you moved so we moved to gusto they stayed that place for 40 years at the pub now but you did no no we did the company the company did.

[01:52:44]
And then how many years and I guess but 2 and a half and then back to Perry for a big construction project for about a year and a half and then move Tallahassee in August might in 65 and then the bank yeah stop that movement so you got to pay your dues getting the company going I guess so yeah I guess so and then settled into a little more samples and then a 965 we had we'd built a couple of pretty good size plants and were.

[01:53:16]
Tele hassle if this was growing a good bit faster than the Home Office was and in South Carolina in. We weren't doing the same kind of work we were doing industrial work they were doing commercial work and so we decided maybe it was time to to break off and form a new company so 965 Watkins and another guy called Thorn a cellphone and lock in Probably you were a partner right and.

[01:53:49]
Had a little problem with the parent company when we did that because we want to keep clients that we had always said in an unlikely we had a little bit of a legal problem there that we had to pay our way out of which put us a little bit deeper in the hole.

[01:54:04]
Probably paid off a lot but in the long run but short term conducted I had. Taken a 2nd mortgage on the House to. Finance finance and just what real sure thing it worked at where will we get more and more work all the time and obviously you had good word of mouth for that and I think 53.

[01:54:27]
Elect Gulf War and the guy who the vice president out vice president structured vice president. Had. To murder his spine didn't live there long. Really See that was one of the partners on this right asked what happened to let time. Walk into his real individual he was when school Vanderbilt played football up there was born and raised in Augustus you know had a few little things in common but he was a turnoff to mist and always thought just put off until tomorrow what you don't really need to do today but when we formed a fluke up in 65 we did i MacIt So some it happened in about a we would have had much you probably kept caught on and I kept telling you what kinda that we needed a buy sell agreement so that anything ever happened to us we were all pretty compatible people we just didn't want to disclose my fighting with.

[01:55:33]
Wives and children so it was about 1960. 73 about 972 I guess we finally taught walked into the less developed by cell agreement and luckily it was just the next year it happened then we were able to make a transaction with his widow and it was never any hassle everything was just fine and that's when I really realized he would have a good year and then a night 175 just 2 years later.

[01:56:16]
Watkins NY had been traveling together we were up in Wilmington Delaware and taking some clients coming home that night.