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>> This is an oral history interview with Fred Johansson class of one nine hundred fifty three conducted by Marilyn summers on July the twenty third one thousand nine hundred ninety nine. We are at his like home in Clayton Georgia on beautiful Lake Burton. And the subject of our interview is just life in general and his experiences at Georgia Tech Fred we are delighted to be here with you today really truly are.

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It's great fun to see your space here and to be comfortable and tell us into your story so Marilyn what a pleasure. It is for me. Where do we begin. When you mentioned we talked initially a little bit and when you mention something started off it my whole life family etc This sort of thing.

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Back before I was born in one thousand nine hundred eighty I had a brother who was accidentally killed in an accident and it just mother was not there when it happened some This was in Houston Texas some furniture was being delivered and the truck that brought the furniture back out and of course I don't know it's I think the child Maurice was his name was on the back of the truck of course and fellow know how to read.

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Well anyway mother kind of went into some doldrums and the doc this is the best they told daily the best that you can do is to have another child now at the time there was Charlie. Katherine Marise and I wasn't around course marched in one thousand nine hundred eighty so mother became pregnant became pregnant with me somewhere along the way and I was born in.

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September the twenty third one nine hundred thirty one born in Houston Texas St Joseph's Hospital by the way which is still there and the reason why I know it's still there. Houston and Atlanta I think have a lot in common. They're both growing in. Fantastic that dynamic city.

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Well put cetera. So I can keep tabs of what goes on in Houston. It's easy when I was with Delta. There was a power base in Houston and so I knew a little bit about what was going on and use and those are still there. St Joseph's is still there.

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Anyway after you were one child you could say you were very welcome. In this world. Yes Yes Very much so very much so. And of course it was my sister never lets me forget where I was that I was the baby boy. I don't think so. We'll talk about it later when they were I don't think so.

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Mournin Houston. Dead he was with the utility company they are off. It was Houston Power and Light but when I was five. We moved to Atlanta. And to go back if I may something about my mother and father. OK. Both mother and daddy were born in one thousand nine hundred six dead in January the tenth mother October the third.

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They were married it either eighteen in seventeen years of age or seventeen and sixteen. Dating only got through the eighth grade. Mother did finish high school somewhere along the way and I think my reasoning for being a tech was because they only got through the Great. So he raised you to know you were going to have a higher.

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Yes Yes And course left and then. Well I guess we will get to the latest to watch shows tech. But anyway they were both born in Pensacola Florida dad and mother both were first generation Americans then the Norwegian. Mother from Germany and maid name was Chris never knew mother's I never knew my grandparents on my mother's side at all.

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In fact a vaguely remember seeing my grandmother my mother's mother possibly once and that's all I remember mother did have a sister called Katie used to color and Katie Holmes and I was named Pete last name was Anderson not sure handsome but Anderson. Anyway I can remember seeing a picture of.

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Teddy's mother and father in Pensacola they ran a grocery store little neighborhood grocery store. Marilyn I can remember seeing them in. For coats Florida. We have that picture somewhere and I think in the house you know that my sister has been here I've got to resurrect it somewhere along the way and.

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Do you know how well you know you know yes yes yes I know that I know that. Anyway in a way Daddy Daddy. Having just gotten through the eighth grade and that was all he got a job with the transit company I believe his first job was counting tokens street car tokens in Pensacola and back then the transit company was associated with the utility and course then they I guess went to her place worked his way up etc That sort of thing he did tell me he used to take some courses and places that sort of thing after Pensacola.

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Let's say they moved to Tampa after Tampa they moved to Houston and of course Houston was where I was born. Stayed there till I was five years old moved to Atlanta. Moved to. And Atlanta why why did you know he was transferred Of course he was yes he was transferred once again.

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So and then pick it out. It picked it picked him out and believe it or not I think I think they rose to very. He was treasurer of that. I guess like company. Well my stars that is really remarkable. I think so. I think a lot of for you.

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Yes that he was kind of a stern man who had lived through the Depression and of course I was brought up right after the Depression in thirty one and to see certain things that are going on now are really kind of mind boggling the way things people are spending money and going through this and going through that whereas of course the wife and I Bob and I just see life we just we just keep going on more concern here we just kind of keep things till it's just nothing left anywhere it's the guy that it's just the mind so all of your education was in Atlanta.

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Then your elementary school where do you remember where you went I went to I went to I went to kindergarten at Spring Street and the only thing I can remember about Spring Street is that I dropped a broke a bottle of our and choose. Then candy God and of course they gave me another one but I had to go back the next day with a nother nickel all the pay for the pay in addition to the one the for the one that I broke in in Atlanta.

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Went to Sacred Heart which was one run by a group of nuns from the first through the sixth grade and then of course from the seventh through the twelfth I went to marriage. Back then it was called Marius college high school isn't that interesting that is interesting. Yes.

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College High School. Now how would you get sacred Harker to marry because you didn't you lived where I lived I lived and they park right in town I lived in N.D. Park and as I was Marilyn if I can go. This regress just slightly. We lived around the corner from the governor's mansion which was on the Prado right course.

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Now it's on West basis for road but anyway we lived and right around the corner and mother would have a maid several days a week. I don't remember how often and of course all the maids would get together and walk their charges the charges around the neighborhood. Several times I can remember going into the governor's mansion with the maid and I don't remember the maids name around a dining room table where people were eating the governor had to be there to.

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And and all being totally welcomed and have to be in about five minutes and all the people in done saying goodbye. They would take us all out and I'm kind of wondering Did anybody there know who we were or maybe everybody somebody this thought that well that so and so shallow that sort of job.

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But anyway. Everything was really open. No no security at Sacred Heart they saved newspapers because this is was a little source of income with that because by this time we were we were also perching a war time so yes. Yes they were I can remember. Well I mean how did you get to Sacred Heart for males like.

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That's too far. Why. Well on occasion. It is it is not not not that often. It was bus there was that sort of transportation. I don't really remember how I got to. The younger the the first years in school but. This was a duplex where mother and I and they lived and of course we lived in the downstairs unit and up stairs was the German I consider him really I guess my second father thought of the name of.

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Cliff Carson went to Davidson what a gentleman he was he had. To Remember gone with on him trips to Daytona Beach his wife was from Alabama she spent a lot of time in Alabama. So he did they did not have any children and I guess I was his I was one of his great fun for him.

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Yes one of his children. And daddy would ride with him to to work. We would go he would go somewhere before eight o'clock and of course where daddy worked at the time Atlanta just like him he was on Harris and Peachtree Street. I don't know what's there now.

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And of course cliff place business was down town in the middle of town he was in the real estate business I saw but all I can remember is that they dropped you off. They dropped they dropped me off. Not all the time I can remember at Meriton and probably my later days at Sacred Heart of my first days at Merion serving Mass and of course it merits and Sacred Heart were combined and the church and the school.

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It marks we had all priest had very few lay teachers Laver few lately just and each of those priests wanted cost the same as this is what they were Dane for and all and they had three altars. There would be a priest starting at six o'clock at each altar six six thirty seven seven thirty and normally eight o'clock.

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There was only one mass being said and it was said on the main old I can remember leaving my house in Atlanta on a bicycle seventy three riding the bicycle down mother and then he would get me up. They thought if this was a pig. A privilege a massive responsibility ride my bicycle down there.

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After us. Served mass. I would ride my bicycle back home get in the car put on a uniform if I was at merest put on a uniform and go to school and I remember that it really wasn't difficult. Back then I don't think anybody was concerned about my safety or anything they were really good student.

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Probably so. Better than the tech I think of course as you continue to progress. You know becomes your world becomes more diluted. Well probably broke out you cation generally teaches you to focus and yeah yeah yeah like school. I mean did you ensure sure where if you were going to win that well yes I guess fairly much so then I have.

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So when you look back on those times as I ask you to look back right now. Was it a happy childhood. Sure sure sure sure sure that you had. You know you have doubts when you're that age you know what I'm talking about when you're little in danger of going on.

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They used to have. And they park you know there's nothing Square and of course I know I play feel like every street and the park was that way I was brought up and raised. Nothing is going to square everything a circle with esplanades in the middle of winter like yes it is and it was designed that way.

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I hear tales. I'm sorry I'm not living there now because I rode through there not too long ago but magnificent and what they've done the some of those old was it was like being raised in a park then you were you had yes we would all get together play for play for this is something I didn't see much in raising my children and in that I didn't see we would get together after school.

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Play football in one of the spin AIDS run through the flowers that the mothers of the neighborhood had put together put together in the center and they would come out yet and screaming at us but you know they knew who we were and probably their own son was there as it was a pretty free environment.

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Yes yes yes yes the Flexi. Racers I don't know this is the thing you used to sit on and stare with your feet or law down and stare with your hands in the brakes on here. Our legal profession would prohibit those these days I mean we wouldn't know about this because they just fit just right beside an automobile you know yes I mean you could you could have those now days anyway.

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But it's a great time super super time it was not a well to do time. Lots of people without jobs and things that you never felt you had to do with your dad managed to keep a good living. Yes yes very nice very much. So when when daddy.

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I don't know at what age. I did want to say this I had thought about this earlier that he was and I'm this is not a boastful Fane and I don't know whether the gas company helped him pay for this and I did like to play golf. He did like to swim something of an outdoorsman but with lousy health.

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He had a large hard extremely high blood pressure he went to do clinic and spent some time back then back in the. Dad died in one nine hundred forty seven. So back then they didn't have the pills or the medication that they have now. So they put him on a rice diet and I can remember him eating rice and honey.

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Don't remember much else mother used to make him a fantastic dessert like a lemon or lime sherbet with frozen fruit and everything I can remember that was fantastic but he was so limited. And so restricted David did like to drink he did like to delight his cigars. But of course all of that came to a sudden stop and and his later days at work day he would get a company car he would come home for lunch because of course having to have special haven't have special faint and he was Dad was a big believer.

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Of. OF FIRST FRIDAY. Church and communion now. He dedicated all of his first Fridays I guess it is when he went to church and his and his communion that time to say to not a lengthy illness before death not a sudden death but he didn't want to linger on and on and on and on and believe it or not it did in his case.

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Gosh. It worked out. I'll tell you a bit about that but anyway I used to go with him when I was at merest we would go down. We would go to church a Sacred Heart walked down to the S. and Cafe which is now would be if it was still there.

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Cross from Macy's of course from Davison's or from the the circular hotel in the West or the west and right across the street from they on on pastry and then we would have a tree that would that would be a tree getting back mother dead he was a member of the Athletic Club and East Lake Country Club and they were combined you had like you had a town you had a you had a country club and I would get back to this story later on but they wanted me to learn how to swim cetera and to be safe in the water said because that after all they'd lost one child.

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No more because mother kind of this hovered over me at times but not that often but but she would anyway they had a swimming instructor there by the name of Freddie. LUDDEN And maybe we've heard the name we've heard before that I'll get to later on. But we were you experienced immorally I experienced him earlier maybe a age of six or seven.

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Wow. Whatever the case is and he would assemble he assembled all of us we kids together and he said I want you all to stay underwater until I count to ten and you will be able to hear me because I will talk to you. Well there was another child another kid in myself that really couldn't handle.

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His T. and this man they were a long time so he said you know come on over here. So he said Now I want you all to do this once again and we were right below him so he started counting as we were under the water and before he got to the end I wanted to come up and guess what his hand as I do here but anyway the others.

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You either he was a hold of us on the water. But anyway that's just kind of the that was kind of life back then and course the parents place it at the ready person surely surely and the parents didn't think bad of this. I mean that was just another part of growing up the discipline and the water.

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No but anyway and of course I did. We'll talk later on about is this about about to swim and corset. And just had one of the earliest experience with Mr New Fraley learn a lot of Fred's in my life. It seems like beside mine and fairly new couple of Freds IT tech I think growing up was great when I was in a for social fraternity at high school in Maris there were about thirty five or forty.

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We used to have dances all the fraternities and sororities in Atlanta not they were that high school level little high school level would have dances at the Biltmore So you were quite as social no no no no no I don't think so no I don't think so but everybody just kind of did this you know it was just kind of part of life and Barbara not is fair.

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Last weekend went to a wedding reception that was at the Biltmore in the Georgian room and that right. I mean a lot of memory brought back a lot of memories the music they played now that Marilyn is for this will be a lot of what they played back then still good music.

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Some of it but real loud to amplified but life was life has been good as you participate in sports activities in school formally Yes yes I did know him. Baseball the replacement baseball more than more than anything else never to the and some football junior varsity never had a vastly level.

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I was extremely skinny I will talk about that later too. About in the military because I didn't really have a problem with that but I was skinny and it made me do jump through another hoop for the military so that sort of speak so. But anyway I caught this boy has been around he went to his son went to tech chapel run No ran the run or you've heard of him caught.

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I caught when chapel pitched this was on a junior team and course you never knew with which way the ball was going to go because Java did have a lot on it and back then there were there were no signals you just kind of had three I'm all right.

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It's three outs in any. You know this just informal baseball in form of baseball the point being you had a well rounded coming up time you had low social activity left the tickets heavy you were going to school. So you had a well rounded happy childhood or Nevertheless I said I think so.

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I think without a doubt they would get the idea that you were going to go to school college or any college you remember how young you know you don't know the daily Daddy knew his health was failing because he died in forty seven. I started Tech in forty nine and I don't remember how long a period Daddy went through this blood pressure.

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I'm going to say or a couple of years two or three years and he sought anough about education in that he took an hour and then charge policy for my education to be sure that there was money there. Also he was well planned well right. And I don't remember how much it was I wish I could remember.

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And it didn't start until I think I reached. I started at eighteen I don't think the insurance funds or money started coming until eighteen. Had he selected tech for no no no I didn't care. So there were no i didn't care I was kind of limited Marilyn restricted because of the small amount of my say the small amount of money.

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It was a nice sum of money at the time I could not go to a state school and live. You know you were living at home I knew I was living at home and even Embry was too expensive. You know I don't I don't know how much their tuition was so I was somewhat limited or restricted the tech but you know it's everything works out is there's always somebody out there guided you and of course the older you get the more I believe that there's somebody like a like a little boy running down the street stair in a rubber tire or whatever the case is something around or frisbee whatever the case is with a stick.

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I think there's always somebody out there tap and yes and possibly you're asking for a little a little help along the way. So really tech. Kind of was the answer. Had you observed tech like what the teams were doing over the years was that something you were interested in never or was going the decision to go there.

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The first time you took an interest in school. I like Tech I think it's anger in tech. Now and it's kind of kind of a tech kind of a tech person I don't know it was nobody ever put a ring in my nose and led me to tag.

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OK You know I went there did it voluntarily. And of course this was kind of what what what the funds could do I thought about I did have part time jobs nearly all the way when I when I went to tech. And you said you started nine hundred forty nine thousand nine hundred forty nine now.

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Prior to that. We chorused World War two started. Yes Yeah and in one nine hundred forty one a lot of young people young and young men knew they were going to have a works period some growing our O.T.C. programs right. Did they have merest. Yes but it wasn't there.

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It was a military program they didn't have a military program an air is a marriage by the way it was a boys' school really boys. The last time around. The last I've been in school with a woman that was over I would say I said six when I was twelve years old.

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Yeah. And of course of the whole there were we'll get it when I was a senior they did it for four female for females of which two two were there when I graduated I met. You did you have military minded you know it was inevitable. Yes yes. Back then of course they still had the draft.

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And you could either join our O.T.C. program. Everybody let me put it this way. I never bit I was not a veteran. I had to take our O.T.C. OK everybody to the best man I was back then had to take our O.T.C. again but you knew going into tech you were going to be in our O.T.C. progress.

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Yes and yes we're going to hopefully be able to stay in school and get a degree that was your intention but definitely we're that ready for the world. Right right. You lost your father. Your dad died in four in forty seven. You know what a junior in high school.

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Yes yes yes a great trauma that was well on I guess I guess so but you know back in Mama handle that Mama did I think Mama did extremely well now that I look back on it. It was kind of I think it was tough. I'm sure it was tough for mother.

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They only owned one home in their life and that lives together that was think maybe two one in Tampa and then one in Houston. They want to Houston. They did on but when I don't know if that he'd owned a house. When he moved to Atlanta I just didn't really care about the maintenance of the places that were that sort of thing.

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It was tough on mother when I I don't I don't remember any. Did to approve of you going to tag. Yes yes yes yes she want to me she wanted me to go today and she wanted me to go to college. My Brother Charlie who. I'm trying to have when he was born my sister was born in one nine hundred seventeen.

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So dad so sorry. Considerably older than you. Yeah definitely think there was a gap there was that gap between my sister. And then my brother I'm going to guess was born in one nine hundred fifteen. She has somewhere there about need that when the war came. He had been working in the old fields so he remained working in the all fields he remained in Houston.

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Yeah. So a bit I say a big man not a tall fellow maybe slight little shorter than I but but Broad is we used to joke it's but he worked on all rig and his arms were biggest as they were he was just a a big man a big man but also unfortunately had the heart problem.

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And who died when he was sixty two. Now of course. Dead when he was forty seven fifty one. So. Medicine or the medicine just made things make things better such as all of us two older siblings you were almost by this point time you time your father died you were your mom had.

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Yes yes yes she was more than happy that you were going yeah locally then so yes yes. Locally and of course I can remember. Getting back and once again to church. I can remember Mother always wanting to attend the very first mass of the day I don't know why but every Sunday seven o'clock that Adam it Sacred Heart and what else did you have a lot of us.

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Bonce abilities for her. I mean you drive where she didn't. So you had to take no I did I did drive. Cause I worked in the yard cut the grass uncle clear off whatever. And I worked around the yard. I did I guess various responsibilities I don't know any overburdening if you didn't feel burdened I didn't feel burdened I remember that somebody wanted me to take on a paper route we talk about a paper route later on but so I do want to take on a paper route when I was young and Daley said no because I feel like I'll be out there doing it and mother you know I will be out there and you're saying Come on you've got to live the papers.

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So I didn't want you to do that. Yeah yeah. So they they kind of let me I don't think I was some people may have thought I would be spoiled but I'm not Marilyn there's on seventeenth Street one eighty six seventeenth Street as I said a duplex Mr Carson cliff cost living upstairs and I live in downstairs next door to us it would be a higher number.

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I don't remember one. And ninety something done really matter. It was a brick house and there lived a lady who had two. I don't know if you would call them they weren't boarders but anyway her name was Mrs Hancock and the two gentlemen that live there and they were just that one was Dr David Smith the head of the math department attack and the other one was Dr Perry pretty sure his name is Perry head of the English Department now they were there you know for as always I can remember for years for years.

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So in other words if I moved. Let's see if I moved to a lot in one nine hundred thirty six. They were probably there then I don't remember them not being there. Dr Smith drove a Plymouth coupe with a wrong. Bull seat I can remember having seen the rumble seat up course we lived close to each other there.

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I mean that was just the way everybody did. And it's very nice he had a he had a some problem with his leg. I don't remember what it was a little less a lay he had a he had a he had a little limp. Dr Perry I don't.

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Dr Smith always made a comment I can remember here and his few of his comments about merest. Because his being the head of the the math department. He knew what kind of students tech was getting. And he knew where the good math students were coming from and where those that would come a slight Not really not really in the program.

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Well prepared as well prepared very well put it he knew where they were coming from too and he had made a few comments about the merits not be in the best in the world and of course I will say this when I got to I will say there was Grady High which became boys had the very last year when we were all saying yes when they went to Georgia Tech there.

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They made a man. But the English was suffering whereas when I went to my When I went to take I made all A's in English and my math but we did talk about the math program a little bit later on but. Was he a family man kind of distance I think.

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Cause you know what do you have I guess a man that's I have no idea how old he was sixty fifty five sixty sixty five. What does he have to do with a eighteen year old in one thousand year old thing out there. All right a brilliant a brilliant fellow I think in he was well respected they were quiet he and Dr Perry and Mrs Hancock they never did make.

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I never did you hardly knew that they were there. I don't remember. Did I ever have either one of them in a class never never had either one of them but I will tell you Do you want. I have a few experiences with Dr Smith mad. Please. OK and of in the freshman year before I leave the freshman year when I got when I wanted to go to tech mother bought mother sold like we used to have an old green one thousand thirty seven Ford always will be your mother so that it was quite a large car as you can imagine.

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I mean it was just the size of cars back then and she was able cars were hard to come by and she was able even in I think in forty seven to forty eight. I guess I come to help her get a little Chevrolet. And of course mother was very possessive of her shovel a specially not you know with a young teenage boy and back then by the way you could drive at fifty you could get a you get your license at fifty.

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I mean the big license at fifteen which I did. But anyway mother didn't so let me have a car to go to school to Later on I remember but before that I would get maybe ride the bus. Whatever the case I can remember walking across eighty five in seventy five.

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When it was in construction and at the time. I'm pretty sure it was only two lanes two lanes each way and then they came up with the tunnel setter So that's really how that's more or less is kind of how I got to school a nation. In the freshman year.

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All the whole curriculum to the best of my knowledge was the same for everybody. I don't know a lot that has changed and you took that everybody took the same courses in The Freshman year I mean it was just a known fact. And we took three math courses.

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Took a college algebra trigged trigonometry and an analytical geometry course. Now I will not brag about my grades they were all passing grades but they were I don't mind telling you they were days and I was glad to get them. But doing each of my. Each of my freshman math courses.

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There was always something. It was one time in each quarter because being on the quota system was one time in each quarter that I was really stumped. So I would call Dr Smith who lived next door. Man I should have lived with him. The day that I didn't know what I did and I did I would tell him I was having a problem.

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He said well he was said Well come on over or baby come over night at six o'clock whatever the case is so he would sit in a chair. I would. Neil beside him. I remember this is happened three times I would nail beside him and he would tell me what a problem.

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I don't remember there was always a problem. He would tell me how to solve this problem and how it concerned all the other. Can I say mathematical problems associated at the start really good Alicante put it all all together and not once it didn't matter. If I had that exam or a problem on an exam four weeks later six weeks later you knew it I knew it and this have he was the dearness professor or teacher I guess you would call him the teacher of anybody anybody that I know.

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I could sit down and explain it to you and kind of so logically and as I said before if any of those questions were ever brought up later on those were your good ones those my God what info. Personally I say there was always maybe one on it because you know out in the Blue Book the blue book exams.

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Other than math how did you take the tech I took to tech I say pretty good said you did very well with English. I did did very well with English. I did you know back then. If you failed two courses a quarter or if you failed one course in consecutive quarters and night school.

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So you had that hanging over your hallways had it hanging over your head. So in other words if I if you know if I well. So my second quarter chemistry course there were this is no joke Maryland I can just about there you the exact figures there were a freshman chemistry one zero zero two there were twenty four of us in the class.

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Twenty one of us think my goodness. And I just it supposedly the teacher we heard later on the teacher was an organic chemistry teacher which doesn't really tell me anything but anyway cause and so therefore when you went back. This is our Remember when you went back and I had to take.

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Chemistry one hundred two. Again all over all over again if I have busted again. You were out of there. Night school and I guess what. I don't remember never having had to go to night school. I must Adama Well yes I did pass and I passed everything. Other than that one but my grades were not good and I say they were very challenged when you were there very very much so challenge is it because you were knocking yourself back to studying you couldn't get it or did you have some other life goal and well you know there's always something else out there and of course I was at school now by the way with a lot of veterans that I don't really get in the way the veterans begin to leave and of course they were all older mature wise their families children.

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They were there to get the job done. Whereas I was eighteen nine by you know Paris eighteen nineteen twenty years old. You know thinking about dates you did hear everything that you did pledge for fraternity. I did. I did a place as a you there's a lot of names with it and I will tell you this little story tech if I may you know we had where do they sed I don't know they still wear red cap.

[00:38:28]
You know it's not required as it was OK We used to have to wear a red cap and I was thinking of this the other day we were able to take the red cap off. And I don't remember if the freshman won the game or if the varsity won the game.

[00:38:47]
The freshman or the phrase from on the game. OK I was trying. I was trying to think of thank you. Where that is that you weren't talkers till break until right until the court ended very much so. But hon. It was George my time. It gave me my social life.

[00:39:04]
That's at the very day that tech did you find you could find girls to date through the fraternity go to dance or were nothing more or less of a guy that we got away dated Why did you find anybody today. I was a local boy. It kind of was not a strange character in the fraternity but you know I guess of the twenty.

[00:39:31]
I must think there were about twenty interests and story of that table out and they shaved and attorney I thought it was kind of it's funny now that it's all over when they finally tell me what they did to you. OK. They had with their head. What is known as Hell Week police this is what I remember they still have that you know yeah they did OK.

[00:39:52]
They want to donors hell week and of course on Saturday. They gave you your task or your duty and they assembled all of us together and I'm thinking there's. About twenty pledges. Marilyn they give me the task of stealing legally. Of stealing the five Delta theta goddess statue in their chapter room now.

[00:40:21]
The essays did not have a chapter on other words when we met. It was just it was like the dining room and they just made it into a chapter room where the fire. They also had a room that was nothing but for their meetings or maybe their power house or whatever the case was and they had a goddess I don't remember they got this its name and somebody enough after they found out about it.

[00:40:45]
So they said they think that would be good for one of the places to do now. Back then and the fire delts were heavy in football players. You guys big guys. And of course my task. This was given to us at like eight or nine o'clock at night on a Saturday night not task could not be performed till two or three or four o'clock in the morning when everybody was in bed right.

[00:41:09]
I mean I could I get into that chapter room and then they would watch it right and of course you got all of all those all the those big guys you know now doing this by yourself. Well now there's you know I did Ally. No no you were allowed to get allies and of course my being from Atlanta.

[00:41:28]
I had a car. And of course one of the few cars there in the pledge class. So I helped other boys get get their task done. I don't think we want to talk about some of those other Already we are colorful right. They are colorful. Well the one the boy I was working with and I'm trying to think of what his name was his his task was to get a plaster of Paris cast of a woman's breast.

[00:41:59]
I don't think that's too bad it's nothing. Well of course we had to go. To somewhere like on Edgewood Avenue or whatever the case cited somebody who was well known as we had to get the plaster of Paris set to this. So if they say had organize yourself I think it's saying this is what they wanted us to do and they wanted us to work together.

[00:42:19]
And we did and I want to know how did you do. He succeeded in his and then they came about time but two or three o'clock and one of my good buddies also a pledge made but by the name of Johnny Hicks was from Talladega Alabama. He played football only college a freshman level at the time and he knew a lot of the guys so he said Fred.

[00:42:46]
So they had a fire escape in the back. So we waited till about three o'clock he went up. He knew what he was looking for. I'm pretty sure was Johnny the did it went up and knew what he was looking for got it brought a bag down and of course here.

[00:43:00]
I've got this statue the statue was only I'm going to say probably not two feet tall. I don't know what to do with it and you don't steal things you were brought up this is this is a bad call. So anyway I take it to one of the friends one of my plays mates dormitory room and as I walk.

[00:43:22]
I mean here. It's four o'clock in the morning and here as I walk toward his dormitory and he's with me. I'm carrying this statue a guard. No security guard never asked us any questions. Nothing like that. And I we put it we put the statue. On the floor in his closet I remember that when we have felt so bad and that the next day I went to the president of our fraternity and I said name was Bill or but I said Bill I said told him what he knew what I had to do and I said but we got to get this thing back to them he says OK go get it.

[00:43:56]
So we went to get it and we went to the father held house he went with me and we to walk up you know along steps group of steps that the father. Hell some guys are saying where did you all get that. So anyway that is so a little funny a little funny task.

[00:44:15]
I had a great time. I think I had a great with attorneys I had lunch there couldn't afford much else. I had a lot so that wasn't THAT IS THAT was an advantage Tell me about your Freddy the new experience college. OK Well course he was head of the when you were if you were not if you were in the military you were exempt from our O.T.C. and you were exempt from any P.C. courses and I'm trying to think of what the P.C. courses I had to take were my freshman year I didn't have to I may have had to take two years.

[00:44:45]
I knew I had to take the military mandatory for two. But the swimming he had tied your hands and feet behind your back. But this time you had to learn how I had learned how to swim and you're right I wasn't and of course. Marilyn was all boys school and nobody will bathing suits we just so you all went and if you wore a bathing suit you were very good.

[00:45:11]
Yes you know if ever there is make it is James take it as a jaybird a tie your hands behind you and your feet. They were they were tired together but they were tired hands behind your feet the time was the test the start to know if you needed this no no no this is let through right this is just one of the tests they gave I don't think just the drown proofing method in they they would make you jump in.

[00:45:33]
I don't at the bottom part of the pool and out of that ten eleven twelve feet you know what was no big deal and they'd make you do it for a whole hour for some people it was no big deal for something for it was Well that's right that's right.

[00:45:44]
The only other thing getting back to my not being able to hold my breath very long and that the other thing we had to do I thought was rather tasking the task is that you jumped in with let's dive jumped into the pool and you had to swim to the very end and back on the.

[00:46:04]
Water. Now that said Olympic size pool and I think it's if I said fifty yards I think it's fifty yards underwater and that would to me concern me more Nathan else and of course I can remember a fairly new say and. We had one day to do this.

[00:46:19]
I mean they didn't you couldn't do it next week or two weeks from that you had one day to do it. And this is if you don't do it the first time. Your chances of doing it the second time I liked him for saying. So you better make it.

[00:46:32]
Yeah but he told us what they said you get out of the very bottom of the pool and the bottom of the pool at the time and I may be the same thing had little square tiles. So I looked like you were really covered the distance covered the ground.

[00:46:45]
Of course you got down to the other end without breaking water and came back that was a The other thing for the new and I don't think they did remember me and rightfully so with everybody but he was. All me and Marilyn like that sort. Of teacher not a bomb a force instructor.

[00:47:04]
They're all did you do it the first time. Yes you did it the first day even though it was hard for you to hold your breath you did it. Well yeah but I think your body is hard for everybody else and and. You know I always had always could swim at least and thought I could you have still have to be careful.

[00:47:21]
I was active with the Boy Scouts for. Five or six years scout master for two when the Boy Scouts have the finest water safety program I've ever seen. I just feel that I am but a wave water is soaring and he didn't traumatize you for life which you know no no no wonder you know he may have a fire to fail fail later on but you know what I did he.

[00:47:42]
So I did was it a happy time for you if the tech. Yeah yeah I think so but once again you know kind of eighteen years old and big feet skinny body. You know not really knowing where you fit in this. You know not having much responsibilities and.

[00:47:58]
But knowing that you should have it set with us as a commuter student did you have a hard time finding time to. Study going back and forth I think your mom would keep after you make sure you did right or she let you do your own thing. Well as I think she let me do my own thing in the best of my knowledge my grades were sent to her.

[00:48:16]
I got a copy of them. I think in my mailbox. Some of my courses I don't know if this is true anymore. I had quite a few courses in the administration Bill and I want to bring that up as they still have courses there. OK I took a Greek letter to a course or can you imagine taking Greek letter to have a public speaking course there which was quite significant for people.

[00:48:40]
Yes it was. Yes it was and what I do remember about that is always and I guess I'm still guilty of this waiting to the last minute to come up. I wanted to talk a had to give a five minute talk and I want to give it something about something totally different and Marilyn there is a dog called the Rhodesian Ridgeback and it used to hunt lions believe it or not a dog.

[00:49:02]
It's not a big dog it's like a small. A lab I guess you could say but that small I'm not a big lad just a small lamb and it's got the hair on its back curls the opposite direction. So they use and hotlines and I support that would be a great discussion a great topic so I found out that there was a doctor in town that own two.

[00:49:27]
But by the time I wanted to get some information and I did talk to him the night before I had to give the talk and he gave me some information I don't remember what the outcome of the talk was but it wasn't a lot of perspiration and I think for a while before and of course I think this is probably true in and in most things that I did it take.

[00:49:46]
And I'm sorry called printing. Yes yes yes yes yes yes it was like the. It's like the architects of one one but it's like these. Architects who for five days or seven days never slept they stayed working on their you know and they know they had forever they knew they had it at the beginning of the quarter but they.

[00:50:04]
I wanted to give you credit at least for coming up with a creative topic. I'm sure I did they actually yes yes. Yeah yeah yeah yeah I wanted to because they would be novel you know dog used to lions but anyway. And you were involved in the Arrow to see progress are O.T.C. program y'all for years.

[00:50:19]
ALL FOUR YEARS course had to be Marilyn to you had Yeah right to had to be you would be exempt from the draft in your junior and senior year but you would be drafted or at after after you graduate. So you know that was good. You knew that was coming so you stayed in the R. O.T.C. and of course they are O.T.C. was an advantage because it paid you a small amount be and I don't know if any thirty five dollars a month.

[00:50:46]
I think maybe they gave you a free uniform. I learned a lot out there doing I learned a lot in the military. Yes. It course it taught me a career a career that I didn't think I would enter. Yeah was was ever interested in. If I may let me tell you about it.

[00:51:10]
They had to go. I was an Air Force or O.T.C. and they had two roads. You could take and each was a different commitment. One was a commitment of two years. One was commitment of three years now Korea ended. I think in one thousand nine hundred fifty three of I think it ended in one thousand in the first part of fifty three.

[00:51:36]
It was at fifty two match should know about. Anyway so I assume that they wanted like to have a few more pilots so they drop the four years it was four years. If you went through pilot and then you had to stay in for a total of four years so they dropped it down to three years and I saw I saw during my time.

[00:51:59]
And in the military that those guys that were going to Palatine and. Could be. We went to summer camp. MacDill Air Force Base in Tempe I always had to go to a summer camp they got to ride in B. forty seven which was a six and. Droopy Wayne jet bomber magnificent airplane is still pretty to this day and I got to ride in A C forty five which is a twin engine pellet driven airplane hot unpressurized and they got other good deals other good tasks along the way.

[00:52:35]
And of course flying did I always like to built model airplanes as a little kid. You didn't mention that was all you did have an interest in airplanes. Well I'm sorry. Yes yes I did I did but you know in the rubble of Rubber Band Powered never could afford.

[00:52:49]
I say never heard of Ford just never got it. It just never got one don't know really had could afford of interest waned. But used to build rubber model airplanes but I saw that the good deals that these guys were getting so. I went and talked to whoever it was in the R.T.C. program and told them I would like to get into the pilot training program.

[00:53:11]
So said the they said well OK fine I said first and you go dude we had to give you a physical. Another physical so they sent me out to Dobbins and probably had the best physical I've ever had in my life and this was before course this was before the sigmoidoscope son the barium animals and all of this other stuff but.

[00:53:32]
I thought a fantastic physical given to me about young. A young doctor young military doctor of course and I don't know it it just. You were impressed with that I really yes yes. Why did you do are right. Sure sure. Shot past a passage. So then I began.

[00:53:51]
And this program and of course I want to still want to get back to tech and I'm still trying to think of some things that you would be interested in a tech doing fine just you're still our tech guy. Right. I still have changed your option to change the options so I would go where you graduate.

[00:54:09]
You're going to have to go off to power to try and try power and this is looking good to you all that is that is looking good to me too. Very much. So here I remember your graduation visit to Fox So you went Yes yes yes he would have all mother one course would have missed it.

[00:54:27]
He got to remember. However I don't remember but it was a big family case and I was sure. Yes yes yes and. My goodness. Get in get over got to go back out go back to tech you feel a bit if I may. I worked a lot. I worked for I had a couple of jobs that I think I had to really believe were fantastic Dillard Munford I'll talk about his job.

[00:54:54]
First he was a past military guy. And. You know he had the money for do it yourself stores. Then he bought the seven eleven S and then he he had he had a business he had his hands I think in several billion says. Anyway he had his first business I guess after the wall was an insulation company rock wall and if you if you melted rock and if you blew air over it fast enough.

[00:55:26]
It became an insulation. It's very itchy you know what I'm told but it was a loose insulation they didn't put it in the bat. You know like you know about insulation. So I got a job with him working like maybe three days a week as an estimate and I would go to various I knew how.

[00:55:51]
And my drafting taught me how to read plans etc that sort of thing. I still have must scale I don't think I have my scale here I still have my skill I still use it by the way that I had in drafting mechanical drawing it was called. But I would go to we go to various places in Atlanta that had the plans like Dodge I can remember dodge and company used to have plans for all the big bids and I would go to go from school and his office at the time was out on confederate Avenue which is not too far from Grant Park.

[00:56:25]
And so I would I would estimate and there was at the time a lot of wary called Wari housing must be named after a Congressman Debbie H E R Y I think as I was well but a lot of wary housing built in built around bases and cars they were all the same as nothing but a fancy barracks for married couples like Project Project home right.

[00:56:51]
More or less anything else and Mr Munford of the month for company would bid on tile floor tile. But our insulation been on caulking caulking around when there's one other thing numbers. Try to think of the other day what he would bid on. But anyway. And of course he would see that they wanted a certain tile like an asphalt tile or rubber tile on the floor and you would take off dimensions and of course these projects for humongous Marilyn and one time I left out the clause and what's ended up being considerably considerably less and of course what happened is that month forgot to bid.

[00:57:33]
So. And of course he found he knew what the next he was able to find out what the next lowest bid was. And we were so far removed from it. So he said never did get upset with me but he said Fred go back and check and see where we could have made a mistake here and I did and I found out I had missed the classes make a long story.

[00:57:51]
He called. The man the officer in charge of taking in these bids. I don't know if he tried to get out of it when the fee tried add on to it or work and it was a captive. And in the conversation there. Call him Captain Major. And before the conversation was over he was called McCurry as one of the one of the smartest men I think I want term No he's a probability I'm just yes and of course all that promote him along the way and all I can think about is he was a graduate and what you were learning a lesson I was learning the lesson yes yes yes.

[00:58:27]
Marilyn. It don't want to leave Tech please not quite yet. And I told you about the job with the month a company I had also another job. I don't remember if they coincide it. I had one right behind the other one of my summers. I worked in the old feels.

[00:58:46]
I always had a job. It seemed like work during the summers whatever part time I guess is something I'm somewhat proud of but you know it just everybody did. I mean I was not unusual but one summer I worked in the old feels and Houston. My brother got me the job.

[00:59:08]
Gosh it was tough work and but good work and great pay and of course she was so tired. The only time you went out if you went out at all was the weekends because you really worked from early in the morning till late at night it was not a dawn to dusk job but it was pretty tough and when I came back home I say.

[00:59:31]
Now more money than I made when I got out of tech provided I had saved fifteen hundred dollars. Lyle a lot of money. Johnny Hicks we going back to Johnny Hicks his father was a Chevrolet dealer in Talladega and Johnny had a sentry boat with a mercury twenty five Mercury hurricane twenty five and it was a century wooden boat had.

[00:59:59]
Dual mahogany colored decking on it. Beautiful book maybe thirteenth. Thirteen a half feet and John had tired of it wanted to sell it. We had come to Lake Raven wants brought our house. Mother Mother Mother Lou was her name brought her up and she stayed the weekend whether sis was just just a group of guys.

[01:00:19]
She was a great house mother I don't know how those ladies survived with all those guys in and out in making all that racket but anyway. She was fantastic. So we came up to Lake Raven stayed I think it the lake Raven hotel. Spencer Smith Johnny Hicks and myself and mother Lou.

[01:00:38]
And we went ski and headache fantastic comedy with Johnny was tired of the boat he wanted to sell it to the trailer had been handmade by the minute his days dealership. I mean it was we're talking to where you were he took him. Marilyn. He wanted round one thousand nine hundred eighty eight hundred fifty dollars for it so I came home and I told mother of my desires I said my mother said.

[01:01:04]
Like to buy this boat. She said. All signs she said you don't want to boat she says just sits in the water and it just rot. This is before the glass was real but then all I said No no Mother you don't understand I said it's on a trailer you haul it behind the car and she says and whose car.

[01:01:26]
Do you plan on using well with a well Dell serial the boat was out so I had during my senior year I had a lot of money. You were a rich man I was a rich man and of course back then you could get date football tickets. If you were a senior getting football take its course.

[01:01:48]
I think football ticket. I believe we had to pay a little something for them and I want to get in the tuition to begin with when I first started. Anyway. You had to pay for the football tickets but for a few extra bucks. You could get date football tickets so.

[01:02:04]
Mate I had a glorious fall. They were taken late is the light is to the game and everything. I really enjoyed it. I believe when I started at Georgia Tech. It was fifty nine dollars a quarter. Plus attend. Maybe ten athletic fee what ever have you. Another peak or so I took track was done on the old track there inside.

[01:02:33]
I guess the track now has been changed to be sundered. Was jumping hurdles everybody just had to jump hurdles he had to do this here about you know kind of put you in this in this little package. I stumble and I got. Stumble fell over a hurdle and fell across on the ground with my palm.

[01:02:54]
And one of my knee. One palm more than the other so the coach wherever it was conducted a peak or sent me to the training room I guess he would become. I don't know if it was Buck and he got out a rather stiff ****. Somehow Sali it and you know what that's even worse than I think it's even worse than that it just described.

[01:03:24]
Did he scrub scrub my palm back here and the this part of the palm. And one of the knees and I can remember that all four You'd be careful. Jeff and all those early years I mean you know I was just about just about the professor's attack if.

[01:03:43]
It's. Freddie B. When I think he taught me securities it's won a hall. He was something of a I gather professor one was a real big promoter back in his days he was talking about that. Back during the Depression you kind of wonder if no one. We got ourselves in a depression.

[01:04:05]
He would buy land. He said he would buy land for maybe down Florida for a quarter million dollars and he'd write him a check. That he didn't know he knew darn well the check when any good but he said he had just received a check for the same maybe quarter million dollars three hundred thousand dollars for some land that he sold somebody else and he put that check in the bank.

[01:04:26]
But he said he knew probably that check when it. Everybody was hiding money. Everybody the same like this was this was the way it worked. And he was telling all about that yet he was telling. As to be cautious as to be careful he had. Professor Brown that man Brown always wore a hat.

[01:04:45]
I don't know what he said the bats. But in class and I don't know what he tours had class. He wore the felt the old man's felt hat always wore felt have never took it off. Never did see him we don't know if he was bald whatever. A little eccentric.

[01:05:03]
Yes he had Freddy Ajax who was head of the placement a little twitch which he Freddy. And I think although. Well probably among ourselves and of course I know it's he was a fun guy to see if I got think he did in his place but I don't really know.

[01:05:19]
You know I had to go in the military. I did go through some interviews they really weren't interested in me my grades weren't too good. I was in many other activities extracurricular activities of course this is what they wanted back then they wanted the guy that. I guess moderate grades mediocre grades lot of activities.

[01:05:41]
This is what the in the Du Ponts and everybody was looking for and of course if you had everybody knew you were going and everybody knew I was going to the military some they would go ahead and hire let him go to military and higher back there was a boy he was I think he was a A.T.O. back then.

[01:05:59]
Marilyn This is class of fifty three. I remember of a leaves a blond boy. Unhittable or I don't remember his name nice fella. And a lot of activities. You know a big market. B mark on campus. Ethel Corp I don't know if the company I know still exists or not paid him five hundred dollars for.

[01:06:21]
Such art. But that was a big money back then because when I got out of the military my job was John's man of long we paid three seventy five and that was three years later. So five hundred back three years before was big money. Well when you graduated.

[01:06:38]
What did happen. OK For some reason befriended this this fellow student. I don't even know as name. You not only told me I could get a job he had a deuce me to a girl. I mean could you give me could you ask for anything better. Her name was Carolyn Cole Carol and I dated each other.

[01:06:58]
I guess for a year or two of course it was getting hard she more or less took me through pilot training and we wrote corresponded I would get with her at home. Cute girl pleasant girl. And he also I worked for eight to design company. At. It was off of West Peachtree now a big office building there and what they were doing they were designing the two for the Lockheed C one thirty.

[01:07:34]
And we drew on glass cloth to five Thousands of an inch and little magnifying glass that was up on the stand. I may still have it and it's and I have two inches tall a you Drew. They gave you the drawings it but you had to drawn to scale and what they would do is that they would imprint this.

[01:07:56]
They would take a picture somehow going through the glass cloth on piece of metal and they would be able to work around that and they would they would make the Z.. Form great response. Well whatever the C one thirty is still going. I did I think a few of the big ribs the job paid good.

[01:08:13]
This was a job that went around kind of everywhere like these people maybe active in Atlanta Georgia working on C one thirty four year two years three years and then they would move to maybe California and work on Born work with going out there are lucky you know somebody that was your interim job that was my interim job and I started the military on.

[01:08:35]
August C. seventeenth. Funny I remember that day but I remember my discharge day was three years late October the sixty. And how did you take eyelets training. Well we had to go through a indoctrination program just intern into the military we all had gotten out. I got my commission all Second Lieutenant we went to Laughlin Air Force Base in San Antonio.

[01:09:06]
I did not have a car so I rode out with two boys and one was from the University of Georgia. He was going through pilot training one was Bob Brant who was a Tech graduate and I more or less rode in a good drive in one car they followed each other out.

[01:09:24]
So I would drive with one ride with the other side to this sort of thing. We spent about two weeks at Lackland something. I think kind of interesting and that I did way enough. You know in the military got to fit into some sort of cube or capsule would have the case is some sort of block and away one hundred forty four pounds and the minimum you could weigh.

[01:09:50]
If a mile high. To go on a politician it was one forty seven. So what they tell you do just eat a lot. Well the doctor said Look I'll tell you what you do. He says. Milk and bananas. Stay with you for a long time. You know stay in it.

[01:10:10]
It's hard to digest to get rid of those two he said what I want you to do he said I want you to get up in the morning eat as many bananas as you can drink as much milk as you can. And you come back and you ask for me and I'll be here at seven o'clock in the morning.

[01:10:27]
And so I went back. We went out and got I guess I got a dozen but on those couple of gallons of milk or whatever and I did I think the next morning I would ask him wait one forty eight. What was so he sent there. Not only yes what was so unusual is that the boy from Georgia.

[01:10:44]
He was of he was he to eat an agricultural degree at Georgia and he lived on a farm and he had been gored by a book when he was young and of course he was this great big scar and they were concerned about lead him and pilot training because of the scar and what that would have to do I guess with pressurization temperatures or whatever the case was never did know but of course he was he was the most healthy of the three of us that he's a real moose.

[01:11:13]
So they were picky picky about yes I think so picky. So we stayed out there for a couple of weeks and then we split and I was assigned to a club US Air Force Base in Mississippi and where Bob and the Georgia Boy went. I don't remember but they went together they stayed together every night in that are you not talk to Bob I see him and he'll tell me the feller what he's doing.

[01:11:36]
They still kind of stay in touch a little bit but I had to go to Thomas Air Force Base and this will do you think you'd make the right choice without it I say without a doubt. Marilyn but it's something that's given to you that you don't want to fail.

[01:11:49]
My first instructor. Probably all remember him as long as I live. His name was George H.. Far southern boy from Birmingham Alabama that this was an unusual program and that. It was a contract school. It was close Air Force Base in Columbus Mississippi. It was run by the military they had maybe five permanent offices on the base.

[01:12:17]
But everybody else was contract. So my instructor was a civilian. Marilynn he had a mouth about it never shut up. It was right in your face it was right and he course said that we flew Cubs initially just twenty hours in the super But I think they felt like if they wanted to if they found fall to one of the washout that's where they were doing it was where they would go to do it easier there got twenty hours of that and because he sat behind you talk constantly yelled all the time.

[01:12:54]
Also remember that. But really kind of taught me the real basics things like. I can remember in a T. six he would say things like. Fred. If you wanted to climb. What would you do with your stick and he said you pull it back and he said Yeah and he would turn their plane upside down and he said pull the stick back then.

[01:13:22]
And of course he would go down so he. He came up think he made you think like you know where you brought the stick toward you or away from you. The nose of the airplane towards you away from you. So those things in the course he thought she and she went flying and you just hung in there with him for the cub and then in the T. six I'm thinking we got about one hundred forty hours they kind of a nice single engine airplane.

[01:13:47]
So you were well trained well I think so. And then as before the waiting before you got your wings then after interest and at it and close Mississippi. There were twenty five open and you know that back then to be a jet fighter pilot was. Can like Top Gun.

[01:14:06]
But in course has advanced program but anyway it was you wanted to be go through jet school. Well for some reason and I don't know why they did they let us decide as to what school we were going to. We picked our own. So there were twenty five vacancies.

[01:14:26]
For the single engine jet school twenty twenty one vacancies I'm sorry twenty five of us wanted to go and get we met over after dinner one night and then one of the dining hall in Columbus and we just talked about it and a few of the guys gave a hand but there at the end there was four people that said no either three or four people that said no.

[01:14:57]
I want to go like the twenty four the twenty five or said I want to go to jet school so what we decided to do is that we would put three either three or four pieces of paper and I had that said. Multi-engine all. And they all the other one for black.

[01:15:12]
So I drove picked him piece of paper that said multi-engine so I was out of the the single engine jet program. So I had to go to multiengine school but you know what it said this time when you're on the shoulder all the time. And they were got the job would either.

[01:15:27]
If you hadn't had if I had had that in the reason why I say that because I instructed a little bit. I went through went through. Basic in Enid Oklahoma and flew twenty eight in the twenty five there in training. But if you had gone to single digits.

[01:15:47]
They didn't get much flying time so Delta when I want you I don't think so because I got out of the military with about not that much time but I got the military with about fourteen fifteen hundred hours which was extensive compared to May I say marketable. Right right right.

[01:16:02]
And of course. So. So it was it was it was fortunate that I did and. I went through the advanced training in the in B. twenty six's and we were supposed to go to Germany and they they said no no we're not going so they made instructors out all of us through this and that was even the other that was not.

[01:16:21]
Yeah right there was nine of us and I was so they sent some of us to Lubbock Texas and that's where I went on structured for the rest of the time until October. Fifty six and it is not told if it came back I came back the month before I came back a room with a boy about name of George Phillips White who also graduated from tech but later he had gotten out and he instructed also and we decided we'd have one last big blowout.

[01:16:51]
So his girlfriend Nancy Tatum who eventually married Nancy Taylor went to Duke. So we said we would go to do. Well I don't know if anybody had been gone for three years other than maybe Christmas. That's about the only time I came home and so I knew of nobody so he says.

[01:17:10]
Nancy will get your date a blind date. This was the month before I got out so I got me a date with my present wife and I thought that was such I thought yeah it was and then a call. How did you do not good not good at all in a car seat then then and then of course we came we came to the came time to go to Durham for the game and of course you know this is back in chaperone days if you're not married such a that sort of Fame.

[01:17:38]
So Nancy and Barbara you know they stayed at a home where their mothers knew where they were etc This sort of thing so and Phil and I stayed someplace else and even then Barb and I didn't get along. We still comment about this. Bob and I still don't get I mean she well you didn't just didn't care too much of each other then how did you how I don't know.

[01:17:59]
And then of course that was and I want to say got out October that was in November. Then I. A few Christmas parties I got a job. After the military not really knowing what I wanted to do I got a job with Johns Manville no longer in existence but I said well you know you don't want to fly back to some house you want to do out there so I got a job with them and I saw they made on the specs to see met.

[01:18:23]
Pipe. So I stayed in the office here several months. Barbara. Yeah right. And then there was a quick they had a Christmas party. Barbara was going to some Christmas parties. So we started asking each other out to these Christmas parties and then I guess that's how it all started.

[01:18:39]
So eventually you got to like yeah yeah. How long did it take you to court or got married the following April we didn't take very long didn't know what a current you are I could write right. Fifty six winter and then write a separate rang fifty seven spring and got married and it was because of a have a short courtship short short courtship and I had guys have been pleased blessed.

[01:19:04]
Ever since. Although we do have a difference. Every now and then. But I was just really quite remarkable that initially you were attracted and then you mean yeah right. How long did you stay with John. Stay with John's Manvel for two years all you did was well yes.

[01:19:18]
After I had been with them. For about a year. I said you know if I want to do that. I don't want to know if I want to do this and I've been just about kicked out of people's offices and I sold a big product at least in the Division I was selling was a water main pipe.

[01:19:41]
So you sold to municipalities set or water districts and such or that sort of thing and I asked competition was a cast on Pipe people who had been in business and I had a pipeline in the ground four hundred years. And here we were juniors on a block with only twenty five and thirty years experience thinking of being a pilot at all.

[01:20:00]
At that time. Where did Delta come to you had to go well after about a year. Year of this I said I'd talk about it and I said you know I think maybe that maybe I'll look around so real interest and Barber says make it. Delta. And I don't know why because at the time.

[01:20:19]
Delta was a carrier the did go west of Fort Worth. We did go to New York. I don't know if we went in the Canada or not we had some flight went to about I went to Monte go buy a had a few trips that they were all flown out of New Orleans.

[01:20:35]
And East and was you really dominant Karen carrier. So after about a year with John's about what I just started every time I would drive south. I would go by and talk to him at Delta. So you started courting them. Right right. So I started calling them and you know they they at the time both east and Delta had furloughed places so in other words you know when they get maybe a pilot maybe fifty palace they don't eat they come back.

[01:21:05]
They're furlough the bottom fifty a while so they go out on the street at something so Delta had a furloughed class Pirlo group East and had a furlough class but before they were hire anybody else they had to hire all of those back. So. I got a call from Delta sayin.

[01:21:26]
You know we're getting ready to start a class and would you be interested and of course and I had must must have gone to talk to the one of the cheap Polish than there for five times. Betty. I don't hope I didn't bore him a time. But he knew probably I wanted the job and of course by then we had a daughter.

[01:21:47]
Janice Sallis was your first Janice Janice the first born had a daughter. Neither one of the parents knew about it. My mother or Barbara's mother and father knew of the possible change it was something that you just didn't really know a fellow who. And to do so. Who I talked to a lot about Dell it was a guy the name of Charles and wired members in the middle name because I remember from high school in college he went to take Charles Harmon Cox who had been in the military he flew F. eighty six in Korea and had gotten a job with Delta and our Charlie and I went to high school not together but he was one year ahead of me.

[01:22:26]
So it was somebody I knew Adel and somebody I could talk to. So Adel was about ready to hire the head to go get a physical F.A. physical it's not their doctor but from another if they approved doctor first class physical they sent me to an industrial psychologist.

[01:22:42]
By the name of Janice Dr Janice J. and us and his reputation preceded him because when you knew you were going to get to see him it was the last barrier. And he had a rocking chair Marilyn and he would tell you to sit in the rocking chair and nobody knew if you should rock.

[01:23:09]
And of course tell you a little story about him later on our two oldest Janice and then followed elec Bob and I thought we would get the jump on the ball and find out really what they were interested in when they went to college. Where their interests were so we went to see.

[01:23:27]
Each of them at their time before they went to college and I school went to see him and he gave a bunch of tests an interview to banal and of course after each and a view he would call us and we would meet with him. Barb and I would be with him and either.

[01:23:43]
Janice or Alec and we would talk about where the entrance were and of course I'd already got the job with dollars already flying by then of course eighteen twenty years. And of course I would go in and I would say this is the rocking chair and he would laugh.

[01:23:59]
And it would have had it would have no it had no Barry had long hair you think if you. He sat there and not moved or if you rocked or did anything that just had no head no part of it he said he said later on but he did have Del records had the final say so and we had a chief pilot playing with T.P. ball great guy.

[01:24:21]
Once again he was a. I have dealt with a lot of strong men in my life more than I thank you. I guess we have to be strong people and he told us at a policy meeting one time one of the pilots got up and asked my question to get ball.

[01:24:40]
I commute and hire so and so or how come you don't hire so and so was such a good guy and he knew he knew the situation in new the case and he says. We never go against Dr Janice's he said we have done it twice. And we don't have either one of those pilots with us now.

[01:25:00]
So he so he had the last say so of course and Delta had the final say so but fortunately Delta hired first because two weeks about two weeks after I had been with Delta. I got a call from eastern Iraq. And as history would have it. I would not have made it to retirement.

[01:25:19]
And that in general and I would be out there working to this day I would be out there were you. Thanks so much as I watch you know me. Thanks but I was so how how did you think about we already had two children your wife not our only one with the all you want to wear that's only one hundred when you were a young married young man and you were going to play does John made the three hundred I think in fifty dollars fifty three seventy three fifty I go for three fifty in school.

[01:25:47]
How long was that period training. That's a dentist story there too. I'm going to say six weeks to two months. They sent us through a five engineers school all of us with politics. And Senator a flight engineer school because Delta wanted no different factions in the cockpit. They wanted three parts so to fly to be a third officer second officer on the D.C. six seven or you coming up jets and everything you had to have a flight engineers rate.

[01:26:24]
OK you get this right and that was extra training that was actually training and believe it or not we took there was a three phases to that written an oral and the flight. Well it's very comforting to know that there were so precise about. Yes but let me tell you a pass the written and the class they were all of us had passed on there were five parts of this road all of us passed all parts of the written so free of us the first three that was sent to take out oral examination.

[01:26:53]
Guess what. One passed and the other feller and myself failed so they they crank up another school again so here I've got a child. Why I had just changed jobs. Barbara's mother and father father who was in the railroad business. My mother who thought he's out of airplanes no more thought.

[01:27:16]
What is this man done. So anyway so a little more little more work a little more effort put into it always makes the outcome little bit better. So a limo study and and I go back and take it again and pass. Maryland. I've had to really have had I think the best job in the world is no doubt about it being a pilot for Delta they used to have kind of a funny say and.

[01:27:45]
I have been asked by copilots and flight engineers once I've made captain did you go to Tech because there was kind of rumors floating around that if you went to Georgia Tech you could get a job but. Well you know Dave Garrett who was a trial. I mean man was he got his master's degree Tech we had Ron Allen who got his degree attack and Anyway just a lot of people as they were hacked.

[01:28:15]
Yes yes there are a lot of success mutation for graduating people who were successful. Yes yes I think on it. It's the. The school the military experiences. It's a. I'm trying to get the right word. I come up with like it's you you have projected yourself it's an accomplishment.

[01:28:36]
You got to do it. It's like I had my son. Number two trial was an Eagle Scout. I have seen him get a job because he was an Eagle Scout with his competitor did not. It's just the commitment and the commitment that you make really and marvelous reflection on you that you know accomplished young succeeded in those.

[01:28:57]
So you loved being a pilot that was a good thing. Well it was a good thing. One hundred first of all when you. You see I left the Air Force I was in command. I was in control. I was an instructor they did what I told them them do I try to teach them the best that I knew how and I didn't have much time myself I mean I would like a George H. forest was to me I was a first lieutenant that had been given this test to do I think I did as good a job as I could the squadron commanders would go with us.

[01:29:29]
Quite often I would have always somebody ride with me once a month while I instructed somebody. This is seems to be oriented on the part of group every six months Adel airlines I got to check ride every six months I got a physical every six months yes every six months you got a course a simulator check and once a year.

[01:29:54]
Somebody always flew with you. It didn't matter if you flew to Europe which is a long flight. They flew with you once a year over and back and they wanted to see. How you flew and then they wanted to see how you more or less controlled the command of the airplane.

[01:30:09]
So I enjoyed the George the the military and GA Delta when it first started with Dell or you're flying with men. Who really are responsible for the airline's success. They were making it right. They were making a reputation Hyundai flew from Jackson Mississippi to Birmingham Alabama with nothing.

[01:30:34]
They they were no. I can remember one time we landed was on a D.C. three a copilot we were going into Brunswick Georgia and the the the captain at the Miller was his name. Nother good ole country boy he says Freddy said let's swap seats. Now this you normally didn't do.

[01:31:02]
Now you would never do it back then. This was back in the late fifties. Of course a sort of a dollar fifty This maybe fifteen maybe sixty. He said friendless swabs. The what we were going from Jacksonville to St Simon's Brunswick though whether it's St There Paul was at St Simon's The weather was so bad he said Fred he said you put me over the airport and our landed and the he knew.

[01:31:31]
His thinking was my goodness. We're so far ahead. He knew that if we could get over the airport and if he knew he knew which direction the wind was blowing which way it would be blowing when we got there. So when we got right over the airport his sitting in the right seat he could make a circular right turn down below the clouds because he had been there so often he knew in respect of where the airport was the King and Prince of whatever it was.

[01:32:04]
He was looking out and I think the quite remarkable. Henri comes with experience only comes with experience sees guy would know tree is Rivers houses before. And of course I didn't never did fly that way but I bet you knew everything on your way. Well tried to try to you'll never have any narrow escape.

[01:32:22]
Now Ryan had a measurable one one time and I'll tell you Bill. Bout that later on. George H. far stop and. Every time you went out if you did anything first or knew they would go with you like night flying night cross countries. He would take you on your first night cross country and he made a comment and I think this is maybe true in life that you could use.

[01:32:48]
Fred remember if you get lost. It doesn't matter why you got lost it. What matters is what you do after you get lost. So you know you can more or less if you make up a lousy decision on maybe go on with it all or John's boundaryless not history you got it got a history Hey just look back and just.

[01:33:08]
Just keep going because. That's how you word it. Anyway the first fellows that I used to fly with were the old guys and they were tough and Stern I say some were most of them were somewhere you had a lot of aspects for them a lot of respect and of course then I started flying with the World War two boys they they were cause came in the cause then they became captains and then I was copilot then I guess it just you just keep working up when I worked went through the ranks is a flight engineer is a copilot flight engineer on the six seven.

[01:33:41]
Then I think it was then I went through a time as being a copilot on maybe the D.C. three and the C. forty six then went back to flying flight engineer on the on the Jets the D.C. eight on camera eighty. Then I left the flight engineer see.

[01:33:59]
Totally. And then became a copilot then after that after I checked out his captain and. Seven years the pilots had an agreement with Delta that after that they would try to airlines move slow advancement was real slow and you could have a guy that had been a copilot for twelve years.

[01:34:17]
You really didn't know if he could check out his captain a not so the pilots asked Delta if they would do fifty a year so I checked out after seven years and I think but two more years and I started flying started flying in the country for forty six first and then then the full forty was kind of a desire a little airplane.

[01:34:39]
How did it work out for you to be got away from home so much. I was Barbara managing I think it worked out fine. Yes yes as far as I know on this place here on like Burton is how long have you had it. I'm going to say.

[01:34:57]
Barbara I've been married forty two years we got about forty years. So you were a long time ago. Yes and we started a little six hundred sixty square foot place just been adding onto it. So as you add it onto your family you get it right. I got I got bigger and bigger.

[01:35:13]
I used to date a girl. Whose father was present the Georgia Power Company who had a place on Lake Raven and Barbara used to know some friends at a place like Raymond so we all were familiar with familiar with the lakes and we all I did the usual tell.

[01:35:31]
And of course when we when we came here we could walk out on a little dark and I saw all three places. Now go out there see twenty something right. But anyway that's just kind of the way it is anyway but I've enjoyed it. The Delta was good progress all along the way they've been extremely her career was progressing well wisher family of family growing hair that's where we had Janice then next came.

[01:35:56]
Alec. The only son and a fine young man all of them a fantastic. The magnificent five after after Jeff came to Lara after Lara came Kristen and then Emily Emily is a little period. I guess between maybe a year to live longer than the other ones and that when Emily came along we added on here.

[01:36:23]
We did things and a lot to the house just got it and we just kind of really expanded the walls. But have also a great place to be five children all the children and Barbara. I think a more possessive of this place then they are a home where everybody has been brought up and raised this is a great place Barbara used to leave and I'm I know she did she would leave the day that school was over she would come back the day before school started you said how could she do this because in my in and out of Atlanta and in and out of peer I would maybe get books or find out what was going on.

[01:37:05]
I would send her all the information or uniforms Barbara knew everything that was going on and so she could stay up here. She's the first boat now on our first boat is aluminum boat. And we still have it pay two hundred fifty dollars for board from a fellow power that was a good deal and he had the motor and I couldn't afford the motor and I says Don Don Bryce was his name.

[01:37:28]
I said Don I just can't afford more he said That's all right he said I'll get rid of the motor elsewhere. So I was fine with another guy. The head and all seven and a half horse power wizard. So Bob Connelly auto stores it leaked at every seam and hon I said what you want for it he said All couple of bottles of whiskey.

[01:37:47]
So I paid him. So we had a boat a motor for two hundred fifty dollars a great deal about a whiskey barber would leave in the morning go down to the other end of the lake Cherokee campground that had a washer and dryer she take all the kids.

[01:38:02]
She'd go down for I mean in. Then come back and then when Kristen was born. We bought the spring that she was bought born I bought a new motor for it and course we still have the motor and it still works great and that are wonderful and of course just hanging up down there but hundred children have been utterly fantastic all the girls went to St Mary's in South Bend or Notre Dame where you.

[01:38:29]
They have a T. shirt and what's the name of that school across from the same. Anyway. They all went there they all graduated three of them went to Italy for. For a year. We Barb and I went over to see each one of them while they were there spend a week or two weeks went to Western Carolina in color and silver.

[01:38:53]
And I can't say really anough about the children all all of them with your colleagues. Yes Yes All are they all got married in order. Except the youngest one. Emily is not married. Emily is now with Delta. Janice will start off after just after graduation. Janice moved to move to Seattle and she's been there a sense.

[01:39:19]
She got a job out there. What what was her well I say she's been there was since she came back and she worked with St Mary's in the promotion department I guess you could say in the end there. Greg in their in their program to promote the school what else can I start a relationship with relations department maybe whatever the case if she worked there for a while was her interest was sort of like Dad I don't think Sano profit was maybe English or something of this nature.

[01:39:49]
OK So she went out to Seattle moved out to Seattle and stayed there. She came back for a short period of time work to St Mary's and then went back out to settle this top school. Met Ron nice guy. They have two children. And their names the names of Moffat and Patrick and they're coming this coming Saturday.

[01:40:09]
We're leaving and going into town tomorrow. So we have Janice and Ron Ron what Ron's speaker. OK Ron speaker and the two child and the two children and Janice has not changed her name. And I don't know why I don't really kind of understand whatever she wants to do.

[01:40:25]
That's great and Janice is call her she's responsible for the success of Barbara. I think a lot of the success in raising our children because she came home she would play teacher. Aha so we had what I did. And yes you know in our house in our call.

[01:40:45]
It's a little room and by the furnace Barbara's nickname the doll room and Janice would come down there and she would conduct class. And of course Elick He now works for a outsourcing company I guess you call it the power. I think he has I don't know right.

[01:41:04]
Proud of like twenty some odd fellows under him. They read me the cetera take care of some of the lighter utility fare around Hickory and I sort Harry. Arak elec married. Marah Marah New York. They have two children also Clayton and heavy and of course had he was my grandmother's name but I don't think Hattie is handy Ali vet.

[01:41:31]
So one of the names is from a mother and I think the other name is for a relative of Mars don't. And maybe four for the grandmother to you know I don't know that Kristen comes next. LAURA. Right. Kristen I was getting ready to say something about Kristen.

[01:41:50]
OK and that she was here for a couple of weeks has been just moving a set of this sort of thing and we in course married to a Christian is married to George George told us and they live in Toronto. Off living in Providence and this pregnant and cause that's the fifth It just seems like they all do everything in order.

[01:42:13]
So we eagerly await what Emily's what I mean when is she going to be married sort of this sort of thing but I'm so much pressure on her and right right right right. But what about Barbara is a bar what to do you go to college and I don't know if you've noticed some captain's chair as we have here.

[01:42:30]
One is Georgia Tech and I got it at the bookstore. Well I called you Bill. College at their bookstore and I says. Do you all have anything like this and they didn't they didn't have I don't want to tell you how much it cost to have one of them done but it was important think it was there before they were poured into their yes I was pressing what was Kristen's interest in school music.

[01:42:55]
She said she's a music major We we we still get together and she she I think. Marilyn I saw play my last three years at Delta I did tell you this my last three years Adela I flew International. He did it for a couple of reasons. The main reason was money.

[01:43:16]
You know your retirement pay was predicated on what you flew the last three years average of the last three years. And of course overseas paid more. So I flew to Europe the last three years and every now and then we would say we would break off from the group or whatever they would all would flower night long and they take us into a hotel and I kept hearing a lot about the.

[01:43:42]
So I asked the group anybody interested in going to see in the phantom no. So I went down and stood in line. I got to see. I was behind a post. Small post but I was behind a post I could. So a song. That is played in there is all I ask.

[01:44:08]
Well and loved it and of course I came home couldn't talk enough about it. So Barbara I get Barbara and Emily. And it's a time. Once your children are out of college. No more passes. That's it. Feeney Emily was still in school so we went back to London and I had some tickets this time so we all saw again the Phantom Of The Opera So Kristen and will play she always brings the music wherever we are together.

[01:44:34]
And she has only a piano now in Toronto and she bought a set for it and she plays and I saying that's great and we cry. Yeah I'm not sure yet. Of course the actor's name or the actress is named her stage name is Christine. Ha yeah and right close to Crystal.

[01:44:53]
But the children are all men there was about Laura. Laura is married to Meredith Jo all Georgette coat and I don't mind telling her this. Maybe I call her my Miss America Rhodes scholar. She's tall and slender. Smart. We ran a marathon together. We we've done a couple of half marathons in Atlanta together but it's a piece trees together and there's some half marathons together and she said that a lot.

[01:45:28]
But I think about a marathon. So we did the grandma marathon in Hobart eighty eight eighty nine and eighty seven. I don't remember up in Duluth Minnesota. We did that one together. She has no children she does have a child she married George and George Will as a child so she says Hey I got a ready made family.

[01:45:46]
She works in Seattle. Also they were all over then Fort Myers. Let me see he was a contractor had his own business. The son comment we make around the family the his dermatologist was becoming his best for. And spending too much time in the sun so I think it's time that we leave and they had spent some time with Janice and Ron in Seattle.

[01:46:11]
So they said we'll go. So they quit their job. Jaber of course is off on his own they quit their job. They moved to Seattle. Barbara not told one of the cars out there for them. I have a fairly it's not a big truck but a fairly nice US truck so she had a little convertible so we towed it out there.

[01:46:32]
She loves it. They are mountain climb and bike in on the outdoors folks. She Great. Go ahead. I was there say not tell me about Emily Emily you have to doubt about what I Emily is a flight attendant she worked out she cost went to St Mary's she worked at camp here in the harbor camp which is one of the boats that just went by and you will probably hear a few more she worked there for two or three years worked really for the Y. out again and the why does this camp up here.

[01:47:09]
She became a flight attendant. Come on to say three either three or four years ago June or July. Three or four years ago. Has a great time world see in the world even though my sister says Fred things are not like it used to be. I don't tell.

[01:47:27]
Emily things don't like it used to be and it is different. Her she has a good time her trips are good. She has she has fun. They said and that is the point and but she enjoys and she's met some That's a nice folks and she's had she's able she's able to handle a lot of situations.

[01:47:47]
Right now Fred let's let's talk about Fred. OK Fred retired to do what I just said in around her. You keep yourself fairly busy stay stay somewhat busy Maryland have your interests have enjoyed on I like to like woodworking out. Building. I'm working all the doc down there now spending spending probably too much time on it if I get if I'm able to spin.

[01:48:15]
Three four or five hours working out I'm happy. Used to be eight on and I was but I'm happy that now and I do some woodworking I'm doing some things for Barbara done some things here. The how do you say we're working. You don't just mean hammering things together you car.

[01:48:34]
Well I have car a car the horse that was one of Lara the third child she said Daddy she said Your quote I have a list here I won't read it to you but she says she said Daddy she said you have a lot of interest. Why don't you just sit down and write where you interest or what you would like to do.

[01:48:53]
My second choice was to carve a carousel horse for Barbara. Now the reason why it wanted to do this is that I saw some carousel horses on a motorcycle ride to Chattanooga Tennessee and nineteen ninety and I've always wanted to do this and because Barbara is my favorite person my favorite character.

[01:49:16]
I wanted to do one for her. So I started off. It took about fourteen months. It's a small horse it's not you know they come in three sizes I've learned all of this on a carousel depends on where they are on the carousel outside is a large horse.

[01:49:32]
This is a small horse it would be on the inside. And it's say a jump of all four legs of all I have it. Look and say it's totally full Barbara. I have it. Individualized barbers both Irish and French and I have put it. Shamrock and they frugally on each side of the horse and on the belt with the strap up here and it's name a mayor after by.

[01:50:04]
Because I think one of Barbara's favorite characters of her favorite people in her life most loved was her grandmother who they called America which is a French term and I say French it means mother and but they're foreigners long are is horses. Yeah so. And of course it was I did it and of course it got all the time and a little short story in Maryland.

[01:50:31]
When General Sherman. The fellow with that burned Atlanta heard of him yesterday heard enough. You know when he got to Chattanooga. He told his men. He said. On my way to Savannah. I think. Let's bypass a law and I will go through Clayton Georgia. And they said General you can't get there from here because one summer I was building working on the horse.

[01:50:59]
Came from here. And was it. It's about a three to three and a half hour ride and we have to make note of the fact that this was all done in complete secrecy that I never did that no Harbor did not know one word I would give her clues clues like.

[01:51:20]
Eighteen rows eighteen each row. What is there like a carousel has eighteen miles on a driver who knows who knows that it's so yes and so as she shall be adorned with beautiful stones and she does well mayor has all the stones as a jewel in or enter ears or you know on the some of her level strapping and so it isn't right for your creativity you know yes yes and I'll tell you what's a fact to see people who just can't visualize what it looks like and go right to it and I kid I'm disconsolate having refer to.

[01:52:01]
What is this horses and the Lego. Level looked like so it was a real challenge. There was a real challenge in Georgia. Great. People all trying to do the same thing they were but they're building they have put it together a carousel in Chattanooga which by the way is the mechanism that came from Grant Park in Atlanta and that was a fun fun project.

[01:52:20]
It was a good project good project a little longer than I anticipated but there's always five or six months long I want to finish it by Christmas and then get finished until May. Fred has toys too well. Well I do have toys whether the major toy. Well that big blue thing that it's a motorcycle a story about that.

[01:52:44]
Barbara came home with Emily twenty seven twenty eight years ago. I mean she came home with all the toys. Let's Tori's I had to come home with something so I came home with a motorcycle. It was a high end up to three fifty fairly decent size bike. Maryland.

[01:53:05]
I just wanted a motorcycle I said. And of course. OK so I went out and bought one got it from a dealer in Carrollton Georgia. I drove it headed for a little over a year didn't put many miles on had about twenty five hundred miles and I came up here one Saturday morning it was in September.

[01:53:23]
I remember the pretty day I had been flying for days. All my get up four consecutive days all my get ups was early so I got up at like it's four thirty five o'clock you know a lot and I was you know could go back to bed so I said I get on my bike and I go to the lake was the end of September we left at Labor Day So I got him a bike I rode up here and I called Barbara we're supposed to go to a party that night in Atlanta.

[01:53:48]
So I called She'd in a way I was so I called and told her when I got there mid to late. I'll come I will be home in time. On the way home. The only straight piece it was little Caylee. The only straight piece of. Asphalt the. Front tire blew out always on the bike started shaking and I looked over the handlebars and you could see that the wheel saw put it off.

[01:54:11]
I'm sure it got all fine dirt in my pants it it kind of went up in there anyway so I said I don't think maybe this is the thing to do because I had five children they were all in school somewhere in school or about ready to go to school and because to live in for so and have a good friend here Larry.

[01:54:32]
Barnes who I went to Daytona with him in eighty nine and eighty nine to Daytona with him in eighty nine and I sat in the back of his little bike all week long and I says I'll never do this again if I ever come down to Daytona for bike week I'm going to have own bike so I went out.

[01:54:48]
Had a trip to one of my European trip flew out of Orlando to Nick and because we had to come down the preceding day we had to be there for that flight naturally so we came out the preceding day so I told him I was going to be there.

[01:55:08]
He said Let me take you by the dealer. So I said OK So he came back pick me up. It was the prettiest However camp he came by and prettiest bike of the house in my life so he carried me about the dealer from when this was this was maybe in January.

[01:55:27]
And I bought a bike then and I told him I'd pick it up around the first part of the market bought a Harley barn a Harley and I didn't know really how to tell. Barbara because see after I bought the bike I flew to Munich. I had a couple of days in Munich.

[01:55:42]
Then I flew back to Orlando. Then I had to fly back to Atlanta. So. I am I going to tell the boss about this but anyway she did seem to object. This is the fourth one I've had I think I have one of the things that Laura suggested that I do that I have written down I want to take at least want to weekly.

[01:56:04]
Trips every year on my bike. I think it's nice. I had gotten involved with this good friend Sam bass with with Bella together. He graduated from Georgia Tech after he had started. He retired in ninety three I retired in ninety one he said he said Phillis going nice long trip I said OK he's we said forty we want to go.

[01:56:29]
So we decided to go to Alaska pretty far pretty far you and so we would do it well about I want out and bought another bike that Marilyn I had two motorcycles. I bought this other bike from a friend. It was more or less of a touring bike not a touring bike than what I had and.

[01:56:49]
Barbara doesn't understand. One bike but two. She was sure that they had really pushed it so when I went I bought another bike so about a month six weeks before the trip. Sam call and he was really telling me the truth. I thought he was just trying to get out of the trip because I've known Sam for thirty.

[01:57:12]
We've been with Della thirty two years together thirty three years together not known him for that long. So I thought he was just trying to get out of the trip. He said. Freddy said My back is really killing me. I've got he says I don't think I can go on a trip he said in fact he said I'm worried about flying.

[01:57:28]
My last return to Delhi flying. So he said. I set about it he said I better not promise. I said OK well. I bought this by half the world who I was going to last. It's a commit but. Marilyn you don't stop. So you got you know what you were in five years.

[01:57:49]
Well a cell phone. The best trips were twenty six days. To be out there and back. You get to get to know your bike one of the things I really want to do but the way I went up there and back had not the for. First problem. You know yourself well well when you do something like I think so because there was a time and I don't remember the state was in Alaska.

[01:58:13]
I clocked I went twenty some odd miles on a highway and never saw a car. I mean you just you just ride in ride in riot and fortunately go those I think Harley's all bikes are a so dependable and never it never a call to once and that.

[01:58:34]
It just ran in the course I came back and I did sell that bike. I've been on to Milwaukee where the home a Harley is I've been there twice go to Daytona every year we go on little excursions spend the night. I'm not a around the corner sort of guy I want to when I get on it.

[01:58:59]
I go somewhere and I will I WANT TO LIKE THE NATION. So it's kind of destination I went grocery shopping yesterday morning start about taking taking a bike but decided against it because. On and off the bike on and off about that's not what you have that's why I'm a tour.

[01:59:14]
Kind of a highway sort of guy. And it's been a lot of fun. My woodworking has been fun. Build a few pieces of furniture than anything grand and glorious but do you still give up things on your list of things you have two pages that are the one that is why I don't want to tell you but I have to do have restricted myself too and I hope to do it but it gets it keeps getting further away and I'm going to have to just take it but take the bull by the horns.

[01:59:44]
When you go to Alaska the highways a little circle and a great hue monger state you have fair banks Anchorage Glen Island Haines Haines Junction I guess it is you have this little little circle and. There's so much. Out there that is totally so much totally unbelievable. So what I really would like to do.

[02:00:13]
Is and all little towns even out west. All the little towns melodramatic has there's a post office has probably got a little airstrip and I don't mean in Alaska but I mean out west. I want to would like to buy a little airplane single single engine airplane little tail dragger something I kind of start off with and spend a couple of months flying.

[02:00:39]
I think I've been away from it now for eight years I would have to self discipline myself again you know Dell airlines used to have they had insurance we could always we got insurance policy. There was a period of time that if you were killed in a light airplane accident.

[02:01:02]
The insurance didn't help. Did not pay because I don't we. There was a period of time when I thought remember two pilots with a last three policy in one year and a light airplane. So I thank you. That have to discipline myself all over again as to what I could do and what I couldn't do it would weather recreational type of very much so to be able to see some things and what they have today is these airplanes are so dependable come out of their old they've been rebuilt.

[02:01:28]
They're so dependable so that on the wish list. That's on the wish list other things. Barber not spending Christmas and New York. At least before Christmas in flying in the domestically New York was probably my favorite city. I just love to get out and walk and I wall get up early in the morning just walk around and look at wonders and I'm not about going to run.

[02:01:55]
I never run out of variety of Maryland never run out of things to do go maybe another trip with tech. Look forward to another. A union that tech tech does they were you know the lottery money well lots of friends lots of friends. Lots of friends. Yes Yes Very good times you had a very fortunate.

[02:02:14]
Been blessed yes. Yeah like there. Thank you sir very fortunate very very blessed. Lots of new grandchildren. Lots and lots of grandchildren Ireland I tell you what you know. I think you've become closer. As you see you become closer there's somebody out there. Yeah. Even on more more hardware higher power more aware of that higher power.

[02:02:48]
The older you get and and I think it softens your little and and you feel like you're in synchronization with that power and yeah I love it love it more than I want to be. Yeah yeah. But it. It's a it's been a great ride for us. Has it has it and I would like to think that you wouldn't change something.

[02:03:08]
If you could go back and do over again. Probably not. Probably not never have a look behind. I have tried for jobs in the security business came home I talked to courts and company that was when courts and company were big security dealers in Atlanta. Talk to Merrill Lynch in Atlanta.

[02:03:26]
And after the military but I don't know everything. I'll run you made the right choice right and right choices made you. Right right. Very much so and I've been really been blessed luck. I will say this I know how much time I have left you mention about this is when you're in an airplane just saying you do of course things that you don't do and in not my whole career.

[02:03:50]
Marilyn my whole career. I never had to jettison any fuel that was no big deal. Delta did when you made. I will say this about Delta and I can't say enough good about them but it Del it when you made captain and if you were out in. If you made a decision after all you couldn't call home.

[02:04:07]
Yeah. You couldn't call your attorney or anything of that nature. You had to make your decision for yourself and if everything worked out. They never questioned it. They never second guessed it. But anyway I've had to shut down engines. No just out of precautionary saying I've had to have a runway phone died gear problems one time.

[02:04:24]
I had all these various saints happen but never had to jettison fuel and that you're grateful for my last trip. Now where they let you take your family to give your wife a positive based pay yes first class out there and back. I couldn't afford to take my family to Europe.

[02:04:42]
So I took a bus and Francisco. My last trip my last take off. The spoilers acted up. I had to jettison but sixty thousand pounds of fuel to go back in and no. So anyway they fixed them they fixed them and so we took off and landed that was my last fight a little a little just a little tad bit of humility for you right.

[02:05:04]
Just a little bit and I know it wasn't big you want to get my foot. It was just something and you're dealt with it. I know yeah well you know you had to had to thank you so much for taking time. Mary I love you are everything to share your story today we like you.

[02:05:20]
So I did immense thank you thank you. Gracious hospitality old you know Marilyn thank you dear. Thank you.