[MUSIC PLAYING] JENNIFER TOWNES: The most overwhelming thing right now is probably managing Open Access Week. All the details are done. The past couple of weeks have been-- I've kind of felt like my hair's been on fire. But we've got a nice slate of activities, including an open access author's reception that'll be very nice on Thursday of Open Access Week. FRED RASCOE: And keeping with the open theme, will it be open bar? JENNIFER TOWNES: I think we are actually bringing wine in, so yes. [LAUGHS] And cupcakes. We're having cupcakes as well. FRED RASCOE: That's a definition of open access I can get on board with. [LAUGHS] [MUSIC PLAYING] CHARLIE BENNETT: You are listening to WREK Atlanta. And this is Lost in the Stacks, the Research Library Rock'n'Roll Radio Show. I'm Charlie Bennett in the virtual studio with Fred Rascoe and Marlee Givens. Each week on Lost in the Stacks, we pick a theme and then use it to create a mix of music and library talk. Whichever you're here for, we hope you dig it. FRED RASCOE: Our show today is called wheel of scholarly communication topics. CHARLIE BENNETT: I said pick a theme, Fred. This title sounds like a cop out, like maybe you didn't have a specific theme or title in mind. FRED RASCOE: Oh, what gave you that idea? Oh, OK, well, it kind of is, but that's because there were a lot of topics that our guest could talk about, and I just couldn't narrow it down to one. MARLEE GIVENS: And that guest is Jenny Townes, the Open Access Librarian at Emory University. Regular listeners may remember when she was on the show before, back when she was at Georgia College. CHARLIE BENNETT: Ah, Georgia College. Because Fred was a little indecisive, let's say, in picking a single topic, what we'll do today is put all the topics on a wheel of fortune, give it a spin, and discuss whatever the wheel lands on. MARLEE GIVENS: This could go a lot of different ways. FRED RASCOE: Yeah, we'll pull it together. Our songs today are all about what any open access librarian is familiar with, and that would be slow progress, heading in the right direction, advocating for change, even when change comes in very small increments. Any librarian working in scholarly communication is familiar with these challenges, and it can get overwhelming. So let's start with "Overwhelming" by Wombo right here on Lost in the Stacks. [MUSIC - WOMBO, "OVERWHELMING] LYRICS: (SINGING) All my life, it feels so overwhelming. MARLEE GIVENS: That was "Overwhelming" by Wombo, and this is Lost in the Stacks. As we said before, this interview is going to cover a wide variety of scholarly communication topics chosen at random. So first, let's meet our guest. JENNIFER TOWNES: My name is Jennifer Townes, and I am the Open Access Librarian at Emory University. FRED RASCOE: And a returning guest to the show. Welcome back. JENNIFER TOWNES: Thank you. FRED RASCOE: Jenny, so glad to have you back. Last time you were on, you talked about disasters in libraries. This time, we've got a whole new thing for you. JENNIFER TOWNES: Oh, yes, yes. FRED RASCOE: You're a open access librarian, and it's a relatively new job for you, right? JENNIFER TOWNES: Yes. This is actually a new position at Emory, so they created it just this year. FRED RASCOE: OK. And you've been on the job six months? JENNIFER TOWNES: Yep. FRED RASCOE: OK. So still pretty new. So when we were talking about having you on to talk about your position, there were just too many topics that we thought about talking about, too many things to discuss. And I know that you said, Fred, just pick something, and we'll talk about it. But I couldn't pick. And so I'm hoping that today you'll help me play a little game called "Wheel of Scholarly Communication Topics." JENNIFER TOWNES: Fantastic. Yes. FRED RASCOE: All right. Because I know even though this is a new position for you, you've been a scholarly communication librarian before with Georgia College. You've been in this field a while, so there's lots of topics that a lot about. And I know anytime you start on a new job, you're tackling a whole lot of stuff, so let's just get spinning. I have a wheel here. I'm going to spin it. Here we go. I've put on all the possible topics in little slots on this wheel. I'm going to spin it. [SPINNER FLIPPING] And the will comes up with Transformative Agreements at Emory. Oh, so six months in, you're diving into that. JENNIFER TOWNES: Oh, yes. FRED RASCOE: Tell us about-- well, first, I mean, we've talked about transformative agreements on the show before, but we might just need a real quick refresher for new listeners. JENNIFER TOWNES: Sure. Transformative agreements, to boil it down, is any agreement that you have with a publisher that tries to move the needle from subscription to publishing open access. So for example, you have things called read and publish agreements. And basically-- there's a lot more to it-- but basically, it means that you as a librarian, whomever is funding this initiative is making an agreement with the publisher that authors from your institution will be able to publish with that publisher open access with no APCs. And again, that's very basic. There's a lot more to it. But in general, that's what that means. FRED RASCOE: Right. So instead of relying on having a library subscription to have access to a scholarly article produced at your institution, anyone can access it because you've engaged in one of these transformative agreements. JENNIFER TOWNES: Exactly. FRED RASCOE: OK. So what is that like at Emory, tackling that in your new job? JENNIFER TOWNES: Sure. Emory is in year one of its very first transformative agreement, and that is with Cambridge University Press. And what that means is that starting in January-- January 1, 2022, authors from Emory who would like to publish something open access are able to do so through Cambridge University Press. Now, that requires authors to want to publish something through a Cambridge Journal. And that's been pretty popular. So far, we've had-- I'm trying to think of the number-- I want to say around 20 articles so far published through this agreement. Don't quote me on that. I can't remember exactly how many. But the process is automatic. Basically, if you're publishing through a Cambridge University Press Journal, pretty much all you have to do is check a box that says, Yes, I want this to be open access. So it's very little effort on the part of Emory Researchers Publishing. And they will also retroactively do some. FRED RASCOE: The author still has to choose? JENNIFER TOWNES: The author does still have to choose. One nice thing that that's been happening now because we just reached the end of our fiscal year, so we're getting all of our reports in is Cambridge has contacted me saying we have some authors from Emory who published with us who didn't check that box. Do you want us to go contact them and see if they want to do that? So that's really nice that we're able to retroactively do that. FRED RASCOE: So what is your role in this? Are you going to authors and saying, hey, maybe you should check that box? Is that what your role is at Emory? JENNIFER TOWNES: Kind of. I'm still getting involved with the administration of this particular agreement. But through some of the other work that I'm doing around our Emory authors trying to fund their APCs, often, I suggest, if you want to just bypass this entire APC funding process, go to Cambridge University Press. Here is a link to all of their journals. As an Emory researcher, as an Emory author, you can take advantage of this agreement. FRED RASCOE: So what's the response when you do your outreach to faculty authors? JENNIFER TOWNES: Most of them are real appreciative. They think it's pretty great. The people that I have corresponded with saying we can't fund this article for your APC, but in the future, go to Cambridge University-- a lot of them say, oh, I hadn't even heard of that. I will definitely do that in the future. And a few of them say, oh, yeah, I've heard of Cambridge. That seems like a reputable publisher. Maybe I should go do that. So overwhelmingly, it's been positive. FRED RASCOE: Do you have strong feelings about whether the transformative agreements perpetuate publishers and publishing companies being in control of scholarly communication? JENNIFER TOWNES: Personally, I feel like this is-- that this is along the right path, but we're still pretty far away from having what I consider to be the best of the best, which would be a completely open access landscape. Whether it's scholarly publishing, or social media, or anything like that, personally, I feel like everything should be open and available, without barriers. Transformative agreements, in my opinion, are a step along that path. However, it's still putting a lot of control into the hands of publishers, and I'm not 100% comfortable with that. But it does make things easier for researchers. It makes things easier for them to consider publishing something open access. And depending on the agreement that you can negotiate with the publisher, it can be not as expensive for the library in general. [BELL DINGS] FRED RASCOE: Well, that bell tells me that we are at the end of topic number one. JENNIFER TOWNES: All right. FRED RASCOE: You still going to hang in there for a couple more topics? JENNIFER TOWNES: Oh, yeah. Ready for round two. FRED RASCOE: OK, well, we'll get back to round two just right after a break. CHARLIE BENNETT: We'll be back with another spin on the Wheel of Scholarly Communication Topics after a music set. FRED RASCOE: File is set under HN64.c72. [MUSIC PLAYING] CHARLIE BENNETT: You just heard "Who Pays" by The Varukers. I think that's how you say it. And we started that set with "Little Steps" by Nostalgia 77-- songs about slow progress and who pays for it. [MUSIC PLAYING] FRED RASCOE: We are back with open access librarian Jenny Townes from Emory University Libraries. And today, we are playing "Wheel of Scholarly Communication Topics." This is a fun game. JENNIFER TOWNES: Yes, it is. FRED RASCOE: All right, so your new job-- Open Access Librarian-- and you're tackling a lot. So we're just putting up all the topics that you could possibly talk about on to my giant wheel here. And we'll just spin it and talk about the next topic that comes up. So give the wheel one more spin here. [SPINNER FLIPPING] And the topic-- Managing APCs at Emory. OK JENNIFER TOWNES: All right. FRED RASCOE: So yeah, you and I both know what APCs are. Just for new listeners, we might need to refresh memories there on what an APC is. JENNIFER TOWNES: Sure. APC stands for Article Processing Charge. And what those are is if you are a researcher, if you're an author and you want to publish something in a journal and you would like your particular article to be open access, very often, that journal will charge you an article processing charge. FRED RASCOE: So at Emory, I think there is a fund to help authors with that. JENNIFER TOWNES: Yes. FRED RASCOE: Is that something that you're working with? JENNIFER TOWNES: Yes. I manage that fund. And it's called the Emory Open Access Publishing Fund. And we fund around-- last year we had around 60 articles funded, I believe. And we are working on our next fiscal year, which started in September. And so we're working on a whole new crop of fund recipients. FRED RASCOE: I know APCs can vary from publisher to publisher, but is 60 about a usual number per year? Or do you have an idea since you've only been there about six months? JENNIFER TOWNES: I went and looked back through our records, and this particular fund has grown fairly exponentially throughout the years. We started with funding-- I believe it was three articles. And we've grown a lot in a short time. Last year was very big. The year before that, slightly smaller. But we've gotten a lot of interest. FRED RASCOE: And for listeners who might not know, these APCs often run into the four figures. JENNIFER TOWNES: Yes, yes, very often. FRED RASCOE: So a fund can be depleted pretty quickly. JENNIFER TOWNES: Yes. FRED RASCOE: So in your handling of this APC fund, what does that mean? Do authors have to come to you, cap in hand, and say, please put some money in here, so I can publish where I want to. How does that work? JENNIFER TOWNES: Sure. We have a fairly well publicized application process. And it's out on the web through our Scholarly Communications Office department website. And one can go there and click on the link and view the guidelines. And if they decide that their need meets the guidelines, all they do is click on a link and fill out a funding request. And that application is pretty short. It's short and sweet. You just check some boxes, fill in some information. That comes directly to me. And it's on a first come, first serve basis. And basically, if your need meets all of our guidelines, there's no reason for us not to fund it. FRED RASCOE: What kind of guidelines are in place? Is it where they publish or what the research is on? JENNIFER TOWNES: It's not subjective in terms of what the research is. Basically, you must be affiliated with Emory. You must publish in an open access journal. It cannot be a hybrid journal. And a hybrid journal would be a journal where some things are behind a paywall, and everything else is open access. FRED RASCOE: Right. Journal has to be exclusively open access. JENNIFER TOWNES: Exclusively open access, yes. And we use the Directory of Open Access Journals. And if it's a book as well, we use the Directory of Open Access Books to Judge whether something is fully open access or not. And you must have research that, if it was grant funded, it is funded by a grant that does not allow for open access publishing within the grant itself. And that's usually the sticking point. So if you have an NSF-funded project that you would like to publish on, the NSF actually allows for open access publishing to be written into the grant. So unfortunately, we can't fund those. FRED RASCOE: Right. That does sound like a sticking point. So if an author comes in and says, hey, the National Science Foundation funded my research, they gave me $100,000, you can say to them, well, actually, your grant says you can take 4,000 of that hundred and whatever thousand you got and use it for article processing charges. And therefore, you're not getting any of Emory's money. Is that right? JENNIFER TOWNES: Exactly, yeah. We are a fund of last resort. So if there is anything else that you either could have done or could do right now, then technically, you don't meet the guidelines. FRED RASCOE: So just in the last few minutes of this segment, how do you personally feel about APCs? JENNIFER TOWNES: Personally, I feel that APCs are an end run around trying to make things open access and access in terms of free of charge. And I'm not a fan. I'm not a fan of APCs. I feel like that there is-- surely there is a better way out there, and it's simply moving costs around, like a shell game. Instead of the library paying the cost, it's the author paying the cost. But now with funds like this, the library is still paying the cost. So it's difficult. We want things to be open access. We still have to play this game with publishers. But in the future, I would really like to see APCs either severely diminished or go away entirely. [BELL DINGS] FRED RASCOE: All right. Well, once again, as you can hear, we've reached the end of our "Wheel of Scholarly Communication Topic" segment, speaking of playing games, by the way. So we've got time for one more round after a break. Can you stick around and play one more time? JENNIFER TOWNES: Absolutely. FRED RASCOE: Awesome. Great contestant. Thanks, Jenny. [LAUGHTER] MARLEE GIVENS: We'll be back for one more round with Jenny Townes of the Emory University Library on the left side of the hour. ALEX MCGEE: Hi. This is Dr. Frasier Crane. I'm listening. Oh, no. Wait. [MUSIC PLAYING] Hi. This is Alex McGee. I am the University Archivist, and you are listening to Lost in the Stacks, the Research Library Rock'n'Roll Radio Show on WREK Atlanta. CHARLIE BENNETT: Our show today is called "Wheel of Scholarly Communication Topics." And our guest Jenny Townes has been a great sport playing along with our goofy format today. Jenny has been working in scholarly communication librarianship for years. But her new job at Emory is specifically called Open Access Librarian. We wanted to find out what she thought of having that very specific title. So Fred asked her about it. [MUSIC PLAYING] FRED RASCOE: What does it mean to be an open access librarian? What does it mean to you? JENNIFER TOWNES: To me, it means being an advocate, first and foremost, primarily being an advocate for all things open. The open access landscape is vast, and it can be extremely confusing, especially because even we as professionals have not been great at having a single definition for open. So acting as an advocate for the Emory campus in helping faculty choose open educational resources from developing a program of open education practices at Emory all the way down to managing our open access publishing fund, these are all different ways that I can be an advocate for all things open for the Emory community. CHARLIE BENNETT: Titles may change, but the job often remains the same. File this set under VK555.B74. [MUSIC - CRAZY HORSE, "85 EL PASO'S"] LYRICS: (SINGING) Well, if you had half a heart you couldn't do this thing to me. [MUSIC - RICHARD AND LINDA THOMPSON, "WHEN I GET TO THE BORDER"] MARLEE GIVENS: That was "When I Get to the Border" by Richard and Linda Thompson. And before that, we heard "85 El Paso's" buy Crazy Horse-- songs about trying to adjust course and head in the right direction. [MUSIC PLAYING] FRED RASCOE: We're back with Jenny Townes, Open Access Librarian at Emory University Libraries here in Atlanta. And we are playing "Wheel of Scholarly Communication Topics." We just couldn't pick a single theme for the whole interview. So sorry. I'm just asking you to talk about all these different things, Jenny. JENNIFER TOWNES: That is just fine. FRED RASCOE: OK. So all right, of all the potential topics, I've got them on my wheel. We'll give the wheel one last spin. [SPINNER FLIPPING] And it comes up to-- no whammies, no whammies, no whammies-- comes up to committee work. OK. JENNIFER TOWNES: All right. FRED RASCOE: And you just started a new job at Emory, Well, you're six months in. And that's always-- even though you're an experienced librarian, you've been in it for years, any time you start a new job, you're thrown into all kinds of service to the profession, scholarship, and things like that. This is one of those service things. Can you talk a little bit about some of the committee work that you're doing right now? JENNIFER TOWNES: Sure. I've recently become the Co-Chair of the Association of Southeastern Research Library's Scholarly Communication Interest Group, which is absolutely a mouthful. FRED RASCOE: It doesn't have a cool initialization or acronym or anything? JENNIFER TOWNES: In my brain, I just call it ASRLSCIG. But I don't think that that's something that anyone else would be-- FRED RASCOE: Yeah, it doesn't quite trip off the tongue, I guess. JENNIFER TOWNES: No. [LAUGHS] My co-chair is Elaine Walker, who is the Scholarly Communication Librarian at University of Alabama. So we've had our first couple of meetings. And talking with her and outgoing chairs Devin Soper and Rachel Caldwell, we've developed a slate of activities for the next year. And we'll be continuing with some things that listeners might be familiar with, such as community calls. And we're also going to try some new things, such as creating a directory of copyright and scholarly communication training. FRED RASCOE: Ah, OK. So sort of putting together a bunch of free and open resources for anyone who needs to learn more? JENNIFER TOWNES: Yes, yes. FRED RASCOE: Oh, OK. Nice. I do quite enjoy the ASRL presentations. And I believe I've been on the community calls as well, at least some of them. JENNIFER TOWNES: Great. FRED RASCOE: So what drew you in to being a-- not just a part of this interest group, but co-chair? Were you volunteered? Or did you just decide that's something you wanted to do? JENNIFER TOWNES: Yeah, I volunteered. ASRL is a group that has really been helpful to me when I was starting off at Georgia College as a scholar communication librarian. And Georgia College is not a member of ASRL but the community calls that are open and available to everyone and a lot of the scholarly communication interest group resources were extremely helpful when I was first starting out as a scholarly communication librarian. And I wanted to give back. And when I got to Emory-- Emory is a member of ASRL-- I saw the call for volunteers for a chair to go out over an email listserv, and I thought this would be an excellent way to give back and to also be involved. FRED RASCOE: So what are you looking most forward to in your-- I guess, it's a one-year position, or is it multiyear? JENNIFER TOWNES: I believe, it is a two-year position. FRED RASCOE: Two-year position? JENNIFER TOWNES: Yeah. FRED RASCOE: What are you most looking forward to over the next couple of years? JENNIFER TOWNES: I'm really looking forward to making connections with other ASRL librarians, particularly ones working with open access transformative agreements, as we just talked about, and forming a network of people, network of other professionals that I can talk to and who I can help along the path and who can help me as well. And one of the things that I'm particularly looking forward to with our slate of activities is the Scholarly Communication Unconference, which does go by SCUNC, S-C-U-N-C. FRED RASCOE: There's some great acronyms that you're giving me today. JENNIFER TOWNES: Absolutely. FRED RASCOE: SCIG and SCUNC-- yeah. JENNIFER TOWNES: Yeah. [LAUGHTER] That has been in-person in years past. But of course, the pandemic necessitated a virtual conference, I believe, for the past two years. But we are looking towards possibly having an in-person Unconference in spring of next year, SO spring 2023. And we're just in the beginning of planning stages for that. FRED RASCOE: Unconference, for those who may not have heard the term-- pretty much everyone's familiar with what a conference is and going out of town to go to a conference. Unconference might be a new term to some. JENNIFER TOWNES: Yeah. If you've heard of THATCamps, T-H-A-T, THATCamps-- so basically, it's like that. It's a day of a crowdsourced agenda that is set the day of with flexible scheduling. You go into the Unconference with the ability to get up and move around. If you've gotten everything you need out of the discussion but the discussion is not over, it's OK to get up and move to another session. And when you arrive, whether it's virtual or in-person, it's crowdsourced. Everyone puts in ideas for how the day is going to go. And usually, votes are taken. Different rooms are set up, and it's extremely flexible, extremely on the fly, and usually very, very current. FRED RASCOE: So you don't necessarily show up with a paper about the latest scholarly communication research in your hand, ready to present? JENNIFER TOWNES: Not necessarily, no. FRED RASCOE: All right. So what other kinds of service work or committee work do you see yourself getting involved with now that you moved from Georgia College to Emory? JENNIFER TOWNES: I'm really looking forward to doing some diversity, equity, and inclusion committee work. Emory is extraordinarily committed to those types of initiatives, and I'm really looking forward to working with the DEI committee at Emory. I've already joined that, and I've been sitting in on a couple of meetings. And it's something that is near and dear to my heart, so that's one of the things I'm looking forward to. [BELL DINGS] FRED RASCOE: Well, Jenny, as you can hear, time is up on our last segment. JENNIFER TOWNES: Oh. FRED RASCOE: This was fun. I enjoyed this format, just hopping around over the three segments just kind of randomly. And so I appreciate you taking the time to do that. Thanks for joining us. JENNIFER TOWNES: I appreciate it. Thank you. MARLEE GIVENS: Our guest today was Jenny Townes, Open Access Librarian at Emory University. FRED RASCOE: File this set under PN1992.8.Q5. [MUSIC - GRAPEFRUIT, "ANOTHER GAME"] LYRICS: We will tell you what to say. [MUSIC - GOLDEN SHOULDERS, "THE COMMITTEE"] LYRICS: (SINGING) Our way of life must be preserved. CHARLIE BENNETT: You Just heard "Another Game" by Grapefruit and before that, "The Committee" by Golden Shoulders-- songs about group dynamics and advocating for change. [MUSIC PLAYING] This episode was called, awkwardly, "Wheel of Scholarly Communication Topics." Fred, have you got a way to wrap this thing up? FRED RASCOE: Oh, sure. Jenny was unperturbed by my silly and awkward game show premise. And she even volunteered to do it again sometime. So I asked her to give us a preview of what topics she might want to be on the wheel next time. [MUSIC PLAYING] What topics should we put on the wheel for next time? JENNIFER TOWNES: Oh, gosh, the scholarly communications wheel of topics must be enormous, must look like a bicycle tire at this point. [LAUGHTER] Maybe copyright, maybe the types of trainings that scholarly communications librarians can access. FRED RASCOE: Right, for sure. Open educational resources, probably another one. JENNIFER TOWNES: Yes, absolutely. I would even include open educational practices as an umbrella term because that involves a lot of things. Subvention funds, such as the tone monograph agreement that a couple of different libraries have signed on to. FRED RASCOE: The scholarship, I mean, even just a review, like scholarship in the field that's coming out now. That'd be a wheel on its own. JENNIFER TOWNES: Oh, my goodness. Yeah. [LAUGHS] FRED RASCOE: OK. Well, we'll put all of those into the hopper for next time. JENNIFER TOWNES: All right, sounds good. [MUSIC PLAYING] CHARLIE BENNETT: Thank you for the sneak peek at our future episode featuring Jenny Townes. FRED RASCOE: We could also get Wendy to do a wheel of archives topics. CHARLIE BENNETT: Oh, I like it. MARLEE GIVENS: Yeah, or we could do library instruction topics. CHARLIE BENNETT: All right. You know what? I'm convinced. This all sounds good to me. Just because we're rock and roll radio show doesn't mean we can't have a little game show-ish content now and then. So let's spin the wheel roll the credits. [MUSIC - "WHEEL OF FORTUNE" THEME SONG] MARLEE GIVENS: Lost in the Stacks is a collaboration between WREK Atlanta and the Georgia Tech Library, written and produced by Charlie Bennett, Fred Rascoe, Marlee Givens, and Wendy Hagenmaier. CHARLIE BENNETT: Today's show was edited and assembled, well, by me. And I left nothing to chance. MARLEE GIVENS: Legal counsel and a compilation of favorite vintage game show theme songs were provided by the Burrus Intellectual Property Law Group in Atlanta, Georgia. FRED RASCOE: I got this strange urge to buy a vowel. Special thanks to Jenny for being on the show, for playing along with my corny idea, and thanks, as always, to each and every one of you for listening. CHARLIE BENNETT: Find us online at lostinthestacks.org. And you can subscribe to our podcast pretty much anywhere you get your audio fix. MARLEE GIVENS: On next week's show, we talk about storytelling in the academy, featuring a former guest who is also a former colleague. FRED RASCOE: It's time for our last song today. I had fun with today's wheel-spinning show. I hope you did too. So let's close with a song about having a good time just spinning around. This is "Spinning" by Grae, right here on Lost in the Stacks. Have a great weekend, everybody. [MUSIC - GRAE, "SPINNING"]