0046-CarterJames [00:00:05.56] MARILYN SOMERS: Carter, class of 1946, conducted by Marilyn Somers on September the 20, 1995 at the Carter Center in Atlanta, Georgia. The subject of this interview is student life at Georgia Tech. President Carter, thank you so much for having us here today. Will you tell us your story in relationship to Georgia Tech, please? [00:00:23.80] PRESIDENT CARTER: Well, my ambition had always been to go to the US Naval Academy. And I had finished one year at Georgia Southwestern College, but I couldn't get an appointment to Annapolis until a year in the future. And I scouted about for the best school in the nation to prepare me for the final examinations for Annapolis and to have a good career there. And obviously, Georgia Tech was the choice. [00:00:49.44] So I went to Tech and I had one quarter as a freshman. That was Tech's rules. So I had to wear a RAT cap, and I had all the hazing of a freshman, which in a way prepared me for Annapolis, which was even worse than that. [00:01:03.97] I lived in Knowles dormitory. I was very active in the Naval ROTC. And worked out there in many ways as a preparatory thing for going to Annapolis. I took the most advanced courses I could in chemistry and physics, in electrical engineering and mechanical drawing, as we knew it then. And also, I believe in Spanish. [00:01:35.91] So the Tech experience was wonderful for me. It was the first time away from home. Georgia Southwestern College is just 10 miles from my house, so this was my first experience away from home in my life. [00:01:48.23] Tech was much more difficult academically than I thought. In fact, I've been to four universities. Tech is by far the most difficult. And although I made fairly good grades because I was a dedicated student, knowing that my life in the Navy would depend on it all, I had a hard time with electrical engineering. It's the most difficult course I have ever had to study, even nuclear physics of an advanced nature at Union College in Schenectady, New York, later. [00:02:18.18] The main roommate I had was Robert Ormsby. Ormsby was a scholar. He and I were somewhat competitive in the classroom. He was an aficionado of classical music, which I professed at first not to like. [00:02:34.58] I remember one day he went to a four-hour mechanical drawing laboratory. And while he was gone, I put on his classical music. I remember it was Afternoon of a Faun by Debussy, and I was standing there really enjoying the music and directing the imaginary orchestra when Ormsby came back to get another book and found me loving his music. [00:02:56.50] We had something of some confrontations because we were competitive academically. Later, when I became governor, I was invited to go out to Lockheed to see the first edition of the C-5A. And when I got there, I was amazed to find that Robert Ormsby, my former roommate, was the chief executive officer of Lockheed. [00:03:19.10] And I told him that. And he said, ''Do you think you were surprised to see me head of Lockheed? How do you think I felt when you were elected governor of Georgia?'' So we've stayed in contact. And he's retired at this time. [00:03:30.96] I had to earn some money. I didn't have much money. So I was an usher at Grant Field. Since Knowles dormitory is almost part of a football stadium, I was an usher every Saturday during the football, every time we played at Georgia Tech. And I helped take people to their proper seat. And also got a free ticket, obviously, to go to the game, which was good. [00:03:57.68] I knew Bobby Dodd as a very notable person, and others at Tech. But as far as individual professors are concerned, I don't remember their names. I remember some of their characteristics and some of their stern ways. [00:04:14.67] Tech really introduced me to a strict discipline. I had a good time at Georgia Tech. I had a girlfriend then out in the East part of Atlanta. I used to ride the street car out there. When I went from Georgia Tech back and forth to downtown Atlanta, I walked down Techwood Avenue, and I still remember the route very well. And the only other thing that I recall offhand is that they had a very good YMCA there, and we used to go to the YMCA and play ping pong. And I think they had a billiards table. [00:04:52.59] MARILYN SOMERS: So there was time for social life, even though-- [00:04:54.51] PRESIDENT CARTER: Some social life. And then I went to church at the First Baptist Church. And on occasion, could go to the Fox Theater. But it was a time of no foolishness. We were in the war, and those of us who were in the Navy in any capacity felt that we were part of the military services in not a frivolous but a very serious way. [00:05:22.70] MARILYN SOMERS: Has a way of maturing people. [00:05:24.50] PRESIDENT CARTER: Yeah, that's true. And it wasn't a time-- it wasn't a proper thing for students at Tech to be ostentatiously frivolous. We had good times and the so-called RATs, they had to wear the cap all the time. And we were pushed around somewhat by the senior students. But Tech really taught me a lot. [00:05:48.62] When I got to the Naval Academy, I was well advanced compared to other students at the Naval Academy in the engineering courses. And I went through the Naval Academy and then later did graduate work in nuclear physics. [00:06:10.05] When my oldest son came along, not because of any pressure from me, but he chose to go to Georgia Tech as well. Got a degree in nuclear physics there. And then decided to go into law. So he went to the University of Georgia and went through law school. But our ties to Georgia Tech have been-- always been very close. [00:06:28.19] MARILYN SOMERS: It pleased you that he went there then. [00:06:30.25] PRESIDENT CARTER: Yeah, it really did please me that he went there. And I still feel an intense loyalty to Georgia Tech is a peculiar thing. But when I was governor later and Georgia Tech would play Navy in football, I would certainly invite the superintendent of the Naval Academy to come to the governor's mansion for-- maybe even to spend the night. And I was eager to know how things were going on at Annapolis. [00:06:53.65] But I found myself uncontrollably supporting Georgia Tech, even against my more serious later alumni where I was a graduate. And I think that anyone who goes to Tech is filled with a certain permanent spirit. And the songs and the Ramblin' Wreck automobile and the yellow jacket symbol still arouse a great deal of sentiment of a pleasant nature in me. [00:07:28.88] MARILYN SOMERS: Did you ever have an occasion to meet Dean Griffin while you were there? [00:07:32.62] PRESIDENT CARTER: Well, I knew Dean Griffin and knew of him. And I'm sure I met him, maybe, as all freshmen did when they first went in, because he was such an effusive outgoing person. And he tried to make all the Tech students-- some of us were very homesick and first experience in a big city. And as I say, it was my first time away from home. But Dean Griffin always tried to do everything he could to make us feel that we did have a family at Georgia Tech. [00:08:00.42] MARILYN SOMERS: He tried to make everybody go into the Navy ROTC, too. [00:08:04.34] PRESIDENT CARTER: That's true. Well, he didn't have to make me because that was my first request. And I put a lot of time into ROTC effort because I knew I was going from there to Annapolis. So I had a pretty sure subsequent appointment. [00:08:19.30] At that time, the appointments a year in advance were not very common, but I had a definite commitment from my Congressman that if I could wait one year, that I would get the appointment, providing all my academic credentials were in good shape. And having finished my time at Tech, I had no problem with the Naval Academy exams. [00:08:42.08] MARILYN SOMERS: So it served you well. [00:08:43.86] PRESIDENT CARTER: Yeah, it served me well then, and it still serves me well. When I was governor, by the way, I had a great concern that the Board of Regents was heavily dominated, which is putting it mildly, by Georgia alumni. [00:08:59.01] And I made sure that Georgia Tech didn't get left out. But I think that historically, the governors of Georgia had been graduates of the University of Georgia. Almost all of 15 board of Regents were graduates of the University of Georgia. When there was a choice between getting some money and not getting much, the University of Georgia got it. Georgia Tech had to do without. [00:09:22.25] When they built the stadium at Georgia Tech, it was built very inexpensively then and the Tech alumni and others had to raise a lot of the money. When they built a stadium at the University of Georgia, the state paid for the whole thing. So one thing I did when I was governor was to really protect Georgia Tech. And I don't think Tech has ever had a better friend in the governor's office. [00:09:45.29] MARILYN SOMERS: I'm sure not. Mr. President, as someone who has gone on to great things, accomplished many things in the world, was it good to have had an engineering background? Do you ever find that that's been helpful for you? [00:09:58.50] PRESIDENT CARTER: Oh, it's been helpful to me in shaping the way I do things, the way I address complicated issues. To do an analysis ahead of time, to try to see what all the factors involved, to weigh the factors these are important, these are not very important. And then to try to explain it in logical terms, I've written, I think, 10 books, and even maybe including my book of poetry. [00:10:21.58] I think my style of writing is still shaped by the engineering necessity to be concise and understandable. So I think in almost everything I've done as a professor now for 12, 13 years, as an author, as a poet, as a governor, as a president, my whole life has been shaped to a great degree by engineering. [00:10:44.32] And I worked in the Navy for the greatest engineer who perhaps has ever lived, Admiral Hyman Rickover. And I was able to, within certain boundaries, get along well with probably the sternest taskmaster that any young person has ever had, Admiral Rickover, because I did have the Georgia Tech background. [00:11:05.77] MARILYN SOMERS: We set you up for that. [00:11:07.23] PRESIDENT CARTER: That's right. And I remember when I was president, I came back to Georgia Tech. There's a law in Georgia that prohibits the universities from giving honorary degrees. And I was invited back to make, I think, the graduation address at Georgia Tech, maybe in 1978. I don't remember the exact year. [00:11:29.11] And they changed the law to say that anyone who is an alumnus of a university in Georgia, who later became president of the United States, can get an honorary degree. So I have an honorary degree from Georgia Tech. [00:11:43.09] MARILYN SOMERS: Oh, wonderful case. [00:11:44.39] PRESIDENT CARTER: So I'm not just an avid and grateful undergraduate, but I'm also-- I have a PhD from Georgia Tech as an honorary. [00:11:54.28] MARILYN SOMERS: But which we're very proud of as you are, too, very proud. Can you think of anything else you want to share with us? We know how valuable your time is. [00:12:02.16] PRESIDENT CARTER: No, I think not. Except here at the Carter Center, we still rely very heavily on Georgia Tech. When we have an interesting challenge in Latin America or with a developing nation, or with a special factor, say, forestry or environment, I regularly turn to Georgia Tech for help. [00:12:23.82] When we had the first major conference here at the Carter Center after it was established on nuclear arms control, we shared with Georgia Tech the responsibility for analyzing the theoretical and practical nature of arms control. [00:12:37.86] And so we've tried to retain our ties with Georgia Tech very easily, I might say. It hadn't been a difficult thing right up to the present moment. And as you know, in the Atlanta project, which is one of our major efforts at the Carter Center, Georgia Tech is an academic partner of one of our key cluster communities. [00:12:59.04] So in every way we can, we still use the Georgia Tech support. And the central headquarters of Atlanta project, the entire computer system, as you may know, has been devised and shaped by a cooperation between Georgia Tech experts and IBM. So in many ways, my present life is still shaped to a great degree by Georgia Tech. [00:13:22.54] MARILYN SOMERS: Wonderful partnerships. Wonderful collaborations. [00:13:25.68] PRESIDENT CARTER: Since I was 18 years old. [00:13:28.04] MARILYN SOMERS: Thank you very much for your time, sir. [00:13:29.78] PRESIDENT CARTER: It's a real pleasure. Thank you, Marilyn.