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>> This is the living history interview with Betty. Brennan attended evening School of Applied Sciences in the one nine hundred forty S. conducted by Marilyn summers and July the twenty first the year two thousand and nine. We're at her home in Atlanta Georgia and the subject of the interview today her life in general her experiences at Georgia Tech Betty Brand thank you so much for letting us come and visit you.

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This is going to be somewhere it already has been somewhat five. So I'm looking forward to hearing the whole story. So tell me please. Where you were born and when. I was born in Memphis Tenn. September too early for nineteen twenty three. And do you know what your mom and dad were doing there and Memphis at that time my father was working there but we both both sides of the family grandparents all live there back so and it was home.

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It was just a home for everybody and that's where what was your father's occupation What was he doing. I don't even know what he did most of his allies which was short but I know he was a salesman at one time because he would leave on Mondays frequently and then come back on Friday night and.

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So he would go out on the road ahead and go out on the road and work and what about your mother what he my mother was a stay at home mom. As she was from Memphis also yes he was born in Memphis. My father was born in Chattanooga or somewhere near there.

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OK Now tell me about grandparents let's start with. Your mother's grand mother's parents didn't live in that area and my mother's Pires his name was Philip Philips was their last name and he was a musician and a successful musician and a good. You know a good musician but not particularly.

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Well accepted by my paternal grandparents speak out they were business people and very successful and. So they might not have thought me like you but they didn't think. But he was very nice and my grandmother. My maternal grandmother was you know the DA are an olive that sort of thing in very prominent and in those circles so one of them had one thing and the other one had the other my father's family.

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My grandfather married my grandmother and I don't know whether they were in East Tennessee are in Virginia. He was a merchant and she was one of the few women who went to a higher education back then in the late eighteenth hundreds. So she hanged. She had gone to comedy she had gone to college and was a teacher and he met her and they married and he was a merchant and he invented are discovered or something.

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A medication that was called breedings rheumatic campaign. It was like the Olivia pink I'm what I call and they made a fortune. I had made no I had medicine. And they had they lived moved to Look I am in Tennessee and it's Calvary Vinton it's rad on the river and this is big and well when I saw it.

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Lifetime which was. Fifty years ago maybe it's still had this big porch year and I'll force the big rig was a. Like a store like a big store there in hand. I don't know. I doubt it's still there but then they moved to MIT this because this was a business that was so huge you need to be in a big an even big city and so so he was the president of the company he owned it.

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It was his company and he had the patent on it and he also worked well except for one thing hard cancer came and things were not as well and he married right. Mack grandfather dyad in nineteen eighteen before I was born them so you never would I never knew him but man.

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His wife my maternal grandmother but the pattern on grandmother raised me in a way. So that's what your example. But I caught her grandmother you called her grandmother and what did you call your maternal grandmother that I guess grandmother I don't even remember as you very little ever name to that.

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Yeah I know. I don't I have very little hands with her now. Did you have the oldest child. I was the oldest child. And two and a half years later my sister normal was born again so also and Mrs and you were Mary Elizabeth and I was Mary Elizabeth but Ma'am ma'am I give my mother credit for this she changed it to bed it Betty because she said Damn the story was a little girl called Mary Elizabeth and she was a dirt is a child I didn't keep her clean and she would and her mother would come out sad and scream Mary Elizabeth.

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Mary Elizabeth and she said I looked then it meant a macular little girl who would hold up her hands if they got one speck of that there it and she said I cannot tell her. Mary Elizabeth and so she started in style. He did but it. Then I thought the long game but it's a long time you've been at ease as which it is and says Build your own thinking.

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Let's think for a minute if you will with me go back and just think what you're really his memory of being a child was the first thing you can remember when I it's less right. She's saying I do have a memory. I don't know what it is we had it my grandparents lived in a big hassle of course when your child everything there was a little baby and all and big you know it was on a corner and it head that it was a Victorian half the big one and it had too sad sad it had.

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Porches you know open porches near it and we had I guess it was a Model T. car. Because it would have been the you know largely on sometime in the twenty's I was born into a three. And I remember being taken for RAD back out in full. And I remember sitting in the back seat looking van and it looked like I somehow remember that you could see through planks in the back seat.

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To the ground to the street below history behind us and I was frightened of that car. That I remember that the stately well because it was a little bit of a trouble for you. Of course that's a good that's that's what we remember we don't remember what Mary you know and it's very possible that you know they had put loose floorboards down I don't know where it was the rumble seat or of I remember that the ad that and you probably were just a few years old at the time that it.

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Yes it was before. After that we moved from that has to another one so that was not you know for a fact then that that was your first home and you have to remember that I know of the I remember it. I do yeah I recommend your dad and uncle taking you on his little little drive around and then after that you moved to a different house moved to another house.

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My mother and father and I. And and my sister. It was a big hassle it was a duplex. And we lived on one sad and my grandmother and an unmarried lived on the other they opened up so that we were all together which grandmother. This was paternal paternal back right as she was a widow ninety eight and I had her so she had the end there.

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That was for so then my heart was her daughter her daughter. Excuse me and when the King was there died. OK And so that we lived there. We lived there too. You know the two families you might say that what was the aunt's name Manch name was Georgia.

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OK and have continued to be close to her for many years in fact I had been always close to her because my mother liked to have a good time and Bill places and do things and my father was happy to do anything she wanted to do so. So if Joe got it was the builtin baby she said a perfect line that she was a man right there for you was so.

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Then I don't remember I really don't remember remember being asked one time about Christmas about Christmases and I remember telling my. My best when as a child. I had a certain doll and she said it's so strange. We had no money then and we got out O.. Dogs a cradle and from another another on a painted it did look new.

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And she said I just put together everything that act could and the only new thing you got was that on the doll cost a quarter all mine and I remember you having all those years I remember very I should. And I remember but that have. But I do remember that that was a great Christmas which shows that children have no idea when the value and particularly if the love that goes hand in hand with a positive time you know the positive memory.

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Do you remember starting school school I remember in Shreveport Louisiana my father and mother in masses Drew and I were down there. You look at them. OK you know that has and to keep them there. OK And so you know let me go and I don't know whether And I know but I didn't like it.

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You know like school you get like three point. **** I didn't like leaving my grant run I bet you didn't I didn't. And so I went to. And I have won a very important memory from the for that. I don't remember was kindergarten or first grade semi ather first grade.

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I don't remember when you know they started having kindergarten kinda guy get buried all over the country again. Right. So I was either bad for six yes. And my mother evidently had taken me or picked me up at school and forgot I bet that I had a very you taking.

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My mother picked me up and we went mad this big field. Huge field with a chain link fence around it and a big barn at one end. And just gray and this huge field. And we got out of the car. And a little airplane. Comes and lands on the grass.

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And my dad didn't jump Sapt. He has driven he's flown with plane. Like of him or dad harassing me and was flying it there might have been another man but at and he ran across and jumped over the fence and grabbed me and big me up. You know at never forgotten that story.

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And because then it ties in later on when land great memory for you to have to carry them by and that really. Yeah but I never was happy with Report and I remember being sent back to Memphis. Shortly thereafter and I can't remember whether I went back alone or whether it was a woman going To me this and took me back.

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I probably was a handful and of course I don't remember anything but Earth and this year I was the perfect shot it but any advantage. I got back to MIT is where my grandmother and aunt were. And they were going to keep you to go to school I was going to and I was going to live with them which didn't last long.

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My mother and father came back. OK. They were obviously having troubles but in the right. So I need back yeah you were going to school in Memphis than I had just to actually think that must have been the summer. I don't remember a school from the mayor. I don't remember school for mayor.

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So you went to spend the summer with your program which is yeah I who she was saying but where I am told that then my mother and sister and father came back and that's when we were in this house with the Divide it has to do blacks. OK.

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And then one day my mother came in and said to me to sit on that baited I was six years old sit on the bed and do not leave the bit until your daddy comes home. And she left a letter for him on the mantel. The bed. It was a bedroom but all the rooms had.

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But you know explanation for you know explanation is that what is it that I haven stand that I am a bit in that I will be in just a little bit and be sure seizes the letter. So she left with my old sister and a fast forward ahead years before I ever saw our Again she left and took my old sister she and I told you she was no she never said goodbye.

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I'm leaving. I don't know when I'll see your anything she said but the advantage to she simply lives and but I do math father came home shortly and I told him and I remember. He stood at the mantel and read the letter he couldn't figure out you know I was there.

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And he crashed. As a comet is a crime so anyhow Bash was not only left to she took your sister to the she took a little bit of full school Sister. As you know how is my view but but that was the plan and Jane is so you have left and I think.

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I was going to do it in its buying She was the Rue McClanahan of her day and. But in any event that your mother you're saying that his mother was that she actually bluntly told you that you were the plain jane she didn't ever say anything she I don't recall her ever say anything and can and to me or do I don't know she might have been a good mother.

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You have not enough and I don't have enough memory to know that. Do you need to. What did your dad tell you did he did he think it should go and she said she's gone. He didn't say that much and I know where she went and literally no she went with.

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A friend of hers. I get new memories every ten. Glyn Gray's Castle Elma Kinney Sergeant swine. I was a good friend of hers and he was a singer with a well known but I ended that him being gray and Casanova by him but any event that your mother went on to live with this friend who really wanted to live and live here and have learned a lot about it.

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Norma with there and I didn't see them for a long long time not long after she left. My father got sick and they took him to the doctor and he had tuberculosis. Can then at that time when we moved from Thailand which is where we were living then out to that is age of Memphis.

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And we had a really nice. Rib recast as opposed to the wooden Victorian once before. In the middle of a block whole block we. Apparently it will it actually. My grandmother a man and lived there. So your father bought the family together that way. We stayed together until he had to go into a hospital.

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So eventually he and I you know sanitarium and was there for two or three years and they were going to move him into what they call the infirmary and he knew that was there and of course he couldn't see me I could come to the grounds of the sanitarium and look up and he could come to the wind and rain and way that's about what he imagined.

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So in his going to I says I want to come home. If I'm going to down the back to sit you won't be snug and leave more than do three months. At the most. So we got a nurse they got it. They got a nurse wonderful wonderful woman and he came home and he lived for like.

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Two years until I was ten. Really. So you did get some good memories I had them and I never was allowed in the room where I could look kind of the still occasionally contagious. And he could see me and he had his bit the bit put up a foot or something above where the legs originally went and.

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He could see out the windows and watch men playing in the front yard things like that but in right he lived for just a couple of years and then he said at the time you're ten years old you've lost your mother and father and your mother didn't come back for you when he came back for the funeral she didn't.

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So that's not exactly the doctor at work that was found. I have a belief that my there might have been one in between there and I'm not sure she married but not immediately after she left. But she did marry again. A man I couldn't stand because I do remember seeing him.

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So I think that was before my father died but in right she came back they end and then act Needless to say I didn't like crash so shaded her with his death and I had already I'm. And you know his he was very natural and I said wait a minute and I thought what were your feelings towards your little sister.

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I liked her fine but I it wasn't your clothes because we know she was really new or how strange it happened. What a strange way it happened but. Could you count on your grandmother and your on. Yes I were wonderful absolutely wonderful and I remember but what about that time I had to say this but I remember they said this grandmother is so old that she is too old to have the care of a ten or twelve.

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I was twelve. But then I stayed there two years. She's too old to have the care of a teenager and and Betty has to go. Where else. Well it was decided for me that I would go to California and stay with them out in a cold day or.

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Who had two children little older than me and so I went with I are you going to not consulted. No I was twelve years old just barely twelve. And I was perfectly happy to go provided I could have a permanent I had straight hair. So and let me just I'm not in a bar and I will go if you'll let me have her mother now you know I want to when we were talking before you mentioned you were very close to Georgette.

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So you were going to be leaving her are you going to be leaving your grandmother nice for the only two grand again other show that Georgette I was I had looked after my father and she had developed. Tuberculosis and she was going into the hospital. I'll have you know people were just going to pieces around you.

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I know so I but and you will tell me I am not going to tell you that I want to put in here because it got me through some bad times. Later in life we had a couple that worked for us. And a black couple who did everything and they had a very nice two or three rooms.

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A behind and the kitchen and during these depths of the Depression see we move there in like thirty and where they are until thirty six when I left at thirty four thirty five. My grandmother said I'm so sorry I cannot keep you any longer. We don't have any money and I just cannot afford to have you stay.

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Now you're welcome to live in your rooms and your little home back there but the just no money and they. Course it will know we're glad to have a home we were you know they're going to eat and have everything and. Later on. Someone said You never had a bad time as I said we had a terrible time we had no money made head no money in our show for head no money and nothing but a **** what do you think that when you get samples like you really didn't know what you were talking about what you really did was that what they were doing was swapping services for a room they built actually and they were happy to do it and they stayed for ever and saw in it that it would look like you had a maid and shelter.

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Then he drove me to **** and they were not good people though they were good and them shortly thereafter they moved to California which is where I had gone to be with my on in the call of the two cousins out there. And I'm going to have to dispute that.

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This would take a week to do this if I went in and met some very very interesting people. When I went to school in Dallas or new but like Clark Gable and Caroline all art it we're not going to skip that but before we go there before you left your grandmother before you moved to California.

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Did you ever see her again. Yes yes. Unite and I write her again and grandmother would they just said she was too old and that there was nothing particularly wrong and the thing that is so amazing is I look back and I think she was she was seventy.

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She was and and here to maybe that's not that that is the bank be had. I acted back they say you know but I'm the daddy is always to all that's ridiculous. And your grandmother was not the most nurturing of people she did take good care of you but she was a blight you said she was from the old school.

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She's pretty blunt with you know what is she the grandmother that told you about how you had to develop your person and know what not. My grandmother that she probably did say that because she. She was very religious. I think that had a lot to do with it.

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They were her father my grandmother's father was a first Methodist Bill Bishop. In the Tennessee Holston conference and she was more religious and he was OK I should be able to get there that what I have vision about and the chance to get it with her and she it but it has she was very religious and she vanity and now this was just something you couldn't do.

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And so she was trying to keep you. Yes she was keeping me you know the way she was and I did what she told you had to do but she just told me that you can't depend on looks that looks are not what came out in life you have to have more substance than that.

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And Norman has the looks but you're going to have the brain. She would tell me that you know you're you're the smart when I was so it wasn't had time it was getting that again a reality but that that that I got from her. It must have been sad for you.

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Betty to take a back and you were lured by the prospect of the curly hair you were God I was going to have that permanent that was a big deal. So you know now and you know I am not going to you were going. Yes they had only to go to California a few years before I was part of California out on it with city we.

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It was in L.A. it was in the we lived. First lived in here most of beach briefly and then moved to Palace Verdi's which at that TAM only had seven seven or eight has in it and they are there hundreds or thousands out and I didn't recognize it when I was there.

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Les what was there and what was their first names which a cop and. Yeah A and A Carol. OK And they were willing to take you. When they were willing to take me in where they kind of they were very nice. Did you get along with your two older cousins act out with particularly the boy who was three years older than I He was very popular and it rubbed off on me all the girls wanted me for their best friend that I would come home and take them home with me and I did that I like my cousin he was a doll and she was six years older and she was in the universe at all right.

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Yes yes I understand jail and I was twelve or now and I got to ask you what school you go into I started at. Her most a beach and graduated from what was eighth grade I guess they enter ninth grade. And then the following year we moved from her most a palace Ferdie's and lived in this lovely home overlooking all of the coastline and I went to Redondo has to now which is redundant.

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How did you meet car Gable and are right down in her most of beach and has in the little school grammar school that I went to my best friend was old girl named Mary Antony and she lived down the Strand several houses from where we lived. And one Saturday we were going to go on the beach the water the Scion was right up to where there's where the Strand.

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Was paved and then the house is and and. So we were going out on the biggest gather and I brought my towel and I ran Diane and yelled OK Marion. Come on down or something. And so she says will be there in just a minute she comes out in this man and woman are with her.

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And I didn't. I mean I knew I knew them but I didn't on sure there's Carolyn Barton and and Clark Gable OK. You know you're old enough to remember them both. You know I think everybody in the world would go with any hand care as it turned out chair a lumber yard was Gene Peters or something who was the sister of Mary and Teddy my friend's mother Fishel the other.

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And the mother and sis to the two adults. Nobody talking Be careful what you say in front of the courage because Yeah right because they had quite a book to be Larry. But anyhow they did their thing and we did it but we were all out there together.

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Did your friend Mary energy she took a guess I'll get better. Not by God why did this man know this is my this in my goal or whatever it feel like to take for you to focus and realize that was our I think is the house we lived in I have a block.

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Was he. And it had a patio in the middle. And there's a front had was rented by a woman called. Who's been Sky's you. She was Russian but she was a head dramatic coach in G.M.. And we had the back a all right. I spent most of my life sitting on the step watching people come in and sit for a listen.

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Our visit or whatever and I asked. And met. Not really Mitt but I mean us. US perception of the aisle the stars. I mean you know and they were if you'd have been a camera by a few days you had I'm sure I was eleven I wore and I would have had some big shoes to do and member man saying something that's terrible.

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Betty. She doesn't want somebody sitting out there and had them on our steps. And she put her something to that as that and that said she doesn't man bit is just a little girl. She's going to make a big good she doesn't match. So I sat there and they let you all call and I was a lad of girl all went up fighting everybody and how were you doing in high school because I did plan you like I lived the last hour longer so loved you I loved to I really love who did you stay in that school on time that I did.

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No no that's not what I say it that I really liked and I didn't am a night owl like them but I was always out Sather and I knew it. And I wanted to get back and this Georgia that I had been sick got well and married her doctor really wanted an interesting story that was and he had delivered me as a matter of fact he'd been a family doctor all these many years and also he knew the family he knew the whole family and home and his wife and dad and.

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So she married she married the doctor her first marriage and she was thirty seven and believe. At that TAM I'm not sure but I think that's the number thirty eight. So just done for you and then she said you can come here if you want to come home and I said we did what you calling talking to them on the phone or was it letters letters letters or once in a great wow I remember my grandmother talking to here who lived in Atlanta was her daughter.

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Most Sunday in that same as a special right or something when we were still in Memphis before I ever went to California. I do remember we were the only ones in the neighborhood or had a telephone in our house thing and and also we were the only ones with the lines by a three minute sad to have.

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And that is that this was an older area in the suburbs. So people and this hand out houses This was back. Yes This was back in the we moved there in one nine hundred thirty. Yes so they would have their one common privies or something right there but I remember how many people want to come and see these.

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Interesting things that man have a telephone in the bathroom and. So you get a letter you got a written invitation then from your aunt Georgette say I had yes it's not bad. Actually I came back east or you came to visit. I came to visit Well not the first summer I guess but yes and I came and lived with her and man Uncle doc and we called him Uncle Jack.

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And so he looked back to me and those back to Memphis for my lived. It would have been my last three years and I **** up at that but yeah I did but that's what it is and you happier in Memphis and happier to you know than I was very happy to be with her and I like him fan.

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He was not a bad girl to have. He was a prominent man then and. Well situated and we had a nice home and everything was fine and he was however as I learned later and now a holic. And I graduated from high school. What year was that. Nineteen forty.

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Yeah nine hundred forty and and moved that summer after and I was sixteen. Tori you know what sixteen going on seventeen and I became a seventeen and I was sixteen and I think that you could get through school when you were going back and that I was always and I was very small as valedictorian Emma I was like when I was yeah I was smart.

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I really wasn't all that smart but I mean I was the random lot of dumb people as but. I know that you have all put it that way. I know you were pretty smart but I didn't write it was you why and when you graduated from high school I mean just to get out and get a job get a job had no money whatsoever and nobody in the world ever wanted to go to college as much as I did because I love to and I have kinds of things I would have liked to have done but it was totally impossible to the country was in a recession and we were too.

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So but I had I had discovered by then and uncle had been an accident of all things. It was not their fault. I always when I discovered he was and I wondered about ways wondered but it was not there. File. I just got a call and they said you know where in the hospital and I went they were they were in bad shape.

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Both of them. But I didn't write the I had to stay forever in the hospital in those days they didn't kick you out because it was no Medicare or anything like that and them. So I was living in a boarding house in Mosul you left them and I left right and just have a do a yes and got a job.

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Whatever to get a job or I first worked for a lawyer who was a friend of the family and his wife ran the office and she needed that handy man sort of person acted as learned to type by the hand and then you could file and type and runnier and.

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You know there was no fear the act to be sent down. Ten blocks down the street if I needed to you know to deliver something. I worked for Pav dollars a week it was wonderful. It from five dollars a week. You could live in a boarding house and I did live in a boarding hands let's see.

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I'm trying to remember if and. Somewhere around that I had been working for. Bill and Max mean he's still on his run. Before and I was making bad with. I may have gotten a job right after I got graduated and assisted a proofreader in Atlanta type company now that we're that's a good place to learn stuff you had to be a proofreader and now one reads in one watches you know I don't remember the details but I know with both sat there together and she and I did the proofreading it was a land type company your husband owned.

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And now. I did get attend Act that. Ten dollars and work they are. For a while now I have to now work there. I don't remember I was getting ready to move to another job I had an offer and they said well we'll raise you to thirteen dollars a week and I said wonderful and I went down.

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We had layaway on those in that ten. If you've ever heard of layaway pay and you are a little money down a little money and it at about a about a three piece suit with the blue fox collar and of fur coat. You can remember that arrow I remember it perfect going you had to pay out for a lab tie you down to forever.

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I mean that but my **** made that because I would hate that for you. Nobody could take it away. That I love is right out you could take it away. No no that tried to lay away. And anyhow it was a thrill and I got it bad to come then to live and how could the Cape were still open that fits you.

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You want me in the yeah very good employees because they have their I can't wait you there I've hey. They and I got the. Like on a Wednesday or Thursday just a really bad cold or something like that. I don't remember all the details but I know I was very sick.

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And they said and I was living in the I had moved and I was in a really nice boarding house with two other girls in this huge room. And I was alone though. They've had the accident man and then and I came down here to Atlanta. Because her sister and brother in law were here and they had a farm sort of with a capacity and they could there was a house and place to go in and so they did that and I am.

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So I was alone up there and they said. You need somebody you're very sick. We need to call somebody. And that's when I said I don't know I was really sick because of that I guess you could call my mother and my mother did come on Sunday one kid in the sun did she change her using you know where you where you want.

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She was just by then I knew where she was. She came to see you at the boarding house and she came to see me and brought me a milkshake or something like that and going up. You know. And that we you know. What she had come to my and now this was just not too long after I had graduated maybe a year she had come to my graduation and that's how I had gotten in touch and she got demands to graduation and I remember thinking crad because I had to make the speech in my dad when the it was awful.

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Yeah but then right. Then she came and she said I wish I had a place for your you could come to study with me or something and I said no I'll be just fine I'll just be fun but they just were upset that that was thinking about us by mass family and so.

[00:39:56]
I had the Tuan stand here the there was joint. And then the end of the one that was living here and married here and they said you might as well. Come here but don't let. Edna's husband who own the farm is what it was called would farm out.

[00:40:15]
To cater it was forty or sixty acres in this lovely home mommy and I had no children and didn't want to and he was adamant she did she would have but he was adamant no children and had that you can't let him know that you're moving here now find your place because he is he's mad enough that my sister and brother in law are here and he made it clear you weren't welcome there are no no I could not be around but act come and live.

[00:40:50]
Came down before Christmas the center sevens was Pearl Harbor and I came down before Christmas and I went to work January first as secretary to the manager. You know I wanted your tag. Even if we look back at these stories. It's like you were a ball on a pool table I was like one of those what you get in that lane you but you seem to thrive where we're going to land my unit well and I did what I had to do and in that cell.

[00:41:19]
She can say I like time I don't think about it. I didn't even see today. Children actually say things to their parents not why. I had their you know I don't know as to be born and you know I'm not I am doing it or am going to do it and I'm going to be even dreamed up that you just had nobody to complain to who Makin to complain to go out to the cemetery and then my grandmother had dad and she had ADD my life she died here.

[00:41:50]
No you don't man out there and I in addition to that in my life. My life you've Maskil. And that's why it was easy to leave that and be good because you. Once you're not nobody else but me I was there for that you. So you never even thought about staying in Memphis once once Georgette moved away.

[00:42:08]
No I never really lived mantis and now looking back that wonder. No wonder I didn't really like moved when I would you like man is out of hand was bad memory bad memories in a way of way but again you know I never thought I had a good life with my father and with my grandmother and when I married a time a long time in there.

[00:42:33]
The Lots of love and attention and you had diversion when just when you went to California and when looked at still but it was a version of No it was I did a lot player and what you love for the family wanted to be back to be alive.

[00:42:47]
Yeah. And so once your aunt and uncle were coming down to Atlanta then there was no reason to stand Memphis and right there was no reason I had no past say yeah. And I love it and your did you just left everything you know. Did you ever see your mother again after that.

[00:43:02]
Yes I got she had written a letter to you after I got down on his show you did let her know you were moving. Yes I mean at the end I was we were it was OK we're talking here that she'd married again by the way in our heads married a third husband very very nice one younger than she was and really so we got a lot a lot actually named and here how first of all a pal.

[00:43:30]
How did you come down here. It's the winter time of night it was all the way it was last train and when it came on the train on a track which it was a train would have been very nice for traffic weather Yes Hang in there. What there was no other way to get a riot.

[00:43:45]
Unless you went bad but so you had to go to your job and let them know that you were leaving and to look at all as I'm leaving and they understood and were they were worried I thought that doc to them a little bad they understood that that was.

[00:44:00]
You're absolutely right about when there was something right for you because you were almost seven years old by right. Sixteen or seventeen intended Templer and then it was that so and it kind of was a scary time because of Pearl Harbor. Yes and then talk of going to war you were smart you knew what was going on and so when I was thrown I was as old then as I am now a lot of weight a lot of ways and I So you got to check it.

[00:44:28]
You and I just took the train down here trained and I don't know any when you let what's out there and what are the and I know that lived on the farm for the over the holidays. And I'm certain a ad in the newspaper and I got this job.

[00:44:45]
OK And this job was as a secretary as secretary to our office manager of twenty's and through five some pretty cool. Tell it to and tell you about how you got a job you answered and a pain. I thought I had in the paper that you would go out and I just let me use her car and I drove to Diane and.

[00:45:06]
That's a pretty big thing for you. I mean here I didn't I had made four trips across the country alone and in a train and train change trains and did the whole head the fit I had done that alone. Yeah they want to get travel so they now when I look at where I'm here.

[00:45:26]
So this is a graduate of the school of hard not really that pretty girl right. So it's seventeen. You can travel and do you know how to do it and I know how to drive a car and in that drive a car. I've known that do that says thirteen.

[00:45:40]
OK so here I am pledge the car and I will interview go for an interview. And he had me then just right then located. It was down walk to the street just as he got out. We had to get off the bus during the day you know when I was working and walked and while to the street from Peachtree to it was right by.

[00:46:00]
I was there. Yeah I was downtown and and so you when it said this interview and had had me and the bad day and actually ride it. First a girl I had met when I had been here on vacation this summer or two ago was married and. A little older than I and they had a spare room she needed the money and I will grant them I rented a room for her from them which didn't work out.

[00:46:31]
And but then I was able ad I answered and I read in the paper to this boarding house. Seventeenth and peach tree across from a restaurant. How many Shany we used to be there and I can I know exactly what time Rhodes writing a letter was down there and then that is when I was eleven that area is an issue and it is north of the area.

[00:46:55]
But it's in that and it was a nice old one of the great old stately homes and I made a couple of friends that had her lifetime from there and then I'm OK So did they pay you enough money to pay for a boarding house so much where you mean I was out it was fabulous.

[00:47:12]
I was making ninety two dollars a month. That was big but that was big bucks and thirty dollars. A far room and to me was. You got to me but that you could go up the street there was a national restaurant up the street in the back to get the blue plate special to twenty five cents and it was a meeting to vegetables.

[00:47:36]
What do you remember the name of it. No I don't you know and then but you do remember mama she and Mammy ma'am and the Shan and I remember that in the roach theater but and at their own little story. The roads to your building is still there and so bands and yet there and them.

[00:47:54]
About you know you're working for this got what were your jobs what we're supposed to do like answering the phone I well I just did it. I had to I guess I had shorthand and I wrote his letters and there just whenever needed to be done it was a big office there were maybe twenty people all told in the office.

[00:48:13]
And it was a very big on and he was just office manager. Now. There was another man. We share. I can't believe I don't remember his name Paul Wilson was the Atlanta manager he was over the whole area more or less well and I would guess with these be the people that booked the theaters Yes the film.

[00:48:40]
Yes yes and I movies now we'll go back to the fact that one of the girls that I met was what they called a booker and she just sat in a little niche black and Teller stage and the and she filled out. Which films went to which the her and which group can remember the details and I am but probably all the major cities around the country would be in touch with you know his radio and like this with the Atlanta land and this was that land on you.

[00:49:16]
You got a block of pictures you couldn't book one picture you had to back to a three bed well you know one good one. In fact I was aware that it was they in and out of my hat but in right she was a booker then there was another one.

[00:49:29]
That I made that was that girl was dark the bird another Darth the dark. The pair was a. And the camera a bookkeeper of town and she kept books and then I and I said I worked for the and there were several man in there still at that time and I worked my way up in.

[00:49:56]
That hour from. Mr. I want I should not McCord but it's similar to that and then to Wilson there was Atlanta man to man name Harry balance him every woman stared death up and it mean in a way that he really wasn't he was just abrupt and lab speaking and he was a district manager for the whole south and he was a big wig here and he had a big beautiful office and a prat as his secretary had a big private office and I was sitting in Mr Wilson's office one day doing dictation he said Can you read this back and I said Of course I can read it back and he said I need her.

[00:50:39]
Paul she comes to work for me. So you know or am I was immediately on my remote it up to the district office his wife had been his secretary. And she when they married she quit because they had to call children and she had a say in the system who moved into her her job a second.

[00:51:02]
IMO didn't really as a system and but he flew airplanes he had an airplane and his wife. Pat out so flew the plane which would have been quite unusual. Yes very unusual day in and they encouraged me and he would let me if I needed to go out and take a lesson at a different Dan he would say just and he had a fire steak on the back of his office and he said just come in the back and you can take off him and take your lesson and then come back so he let Larry Kind me and he was Can man he really want to help and they had saying that you were taking less and yes I was OK and we've got to back up our story a little after now and how did you can interest in fine you think it black to the memory of your dad and the only thing that I think that.

[00:51:52]
Well. That was a very popular war was World War two Everybody wanted to do something. It was a. It wasn't like the by me. And so we had wanted to do something. And I didn't know what I wanted to do and I can't remember right now I have got into Civil Air Patrol.

[00:52:15]
But someone said you'll like this. It was a come up. I mean a lot of people joined it did they not in I don't have a not yet Devon airplane and flat as a rule I guess I just got a lot of learning. Let me do anything about this that and I was what was called an observer and you learn a lot a little stuff and I.

[00:52:37]
I had begun that that was after work at night around and weekends a lot of weight gins he would be doing and I would be doing a civil air patrol work at the ten AM that I was still working. Do you think it would hang on a thing that you went to meetings for but there was that when he went to you go to the meetings they were out and they gave us assignments.

[00:52:58]
And then how do you connect and then they offered you the opportunity to learn how to fly or where you almost had that desire to do it. Are you would have gone to that there are other things you could have done and went into take flying lessons. All right.

[00:53:13]
I didn't know where to go to take flying lessons dart the bird who was a booker at Twitter addresses. That's no problem after parents own the flying school at it can or field which it was thing in and she said there's no problem. There was a very famous man who was a flyer from here.

[00:53:33]
He had started it and when he got older. For some reason sold it to the birds. And maybe it kept his name affected remembered bigger but it can't any hand she said you can do that. That's easy. And so I just went. How much did they charge you for it.

[00:53:51]
You paid three dollars to the instructor for half an hour and three dollars to rent the airplane was that she you could rent it. Playing for some really dollars for had I have been married to get cancer and learned that was that everyone had a good heart attack the bookwork part of it in the ground where right you didn't have to get very much because we're flying in W.I. You just go out there and they show it to you and I remember our shock.

[00:54:17]
I hadn't been in an airplane before I'd ever been in the first time I was ever in an airplane was when you let on for a last minute and can't focus light lest it when it is little or no yes it was a Piper trainer that column and there were two seats one in front one in back.

[00:54:36]
I were yellow. And little. And Alec at that thing and you know Committee out it looked like was a little paper and paint and. You don't have any it will you did look at this. Yeah blow paper and bank that's exactly what it was awfully what I thought want him back down.

[00:54:57]
I am a star and I had a real nice instruct our own home. Home. Again when I who was a Bill Bell I'll never forget him. Bill and I'll be all he really know is business and he was he was darling he was. Pretty old to be still doing this.

[00:55:18]
Boy He's probably forty I thought he was pretty old when I don't know. But any right to me. But very nice. I had my hands are less than I have I can't tell you have bailed out. I don't remember anything except the fact that. This can't be happening I am really doing this and I loved it from the very beginning just loved it so you know and it was this I saw that where I bought.

[00:55:49]
They in is when that was it was after I had a few lessons by the time I got to actually be up and with the civil air patrol and. He said we were GO Dand to the coast to the Georgia coast. We did submarine and we look for submarines.

[00:56:14]
But stand right there. That me here out in the West you're out of the east coast of Georgia spanning seven Marines and I want to back you up and he asked you to tell me a little bit more about how it went. You got a license. Did you get a license.

[00:56:35]
I had you know I since then. This was early on so they let you fly out there. They didn't let me fly at couldn't fly at the people who were in that aisle had their own airplanes. And they. They were disability and just free and just people just as they were volunteer and they were volunteers that was all volunteer.

[00:56:55]
It was you know did you know someone who had a plane out there right. And it was well through the Civil Air Patrol in the meetings that we went to You could be a stand of this one or two that when I was an observer because and I just started but I find your model in a line his own plane.

[00:57:12]
And I was just looking at and what did as the or what I didn't see and it was all. It really was not as serious as it's a man's. But it's what that was all that we could do. It was and it is we are not anything very informal if we saw anything that was the least bit suspicious and I never did they would call whoever it was they do that or they report it and they sense that I didn't know about it I guess because I was never in that but actually the better I did see things didn't think yes yes it looked like he was a service.

[00:57:53]
It was absolutely a service. And then the called on us. I remember added some key. Of youngsters who are interested and I don't know what that those people were now teaching life and how to recognize shingly teaching. Look but I guess the early things that I learned about a plane.

[00:58:24]
I learned from books and I just got out of the lab where I purchased there was one call through the clouds or something that was supposed to be good. And then there was. And I bought that and studied it. It was very basic navigation and meteorology. My son who's pilot now I was utterly amazed when he picked up the telephone at home after he I didn't you know we just learned to fly right after college.

[00:59:03]
And they'd given the direction he would be flying. If that say he wanted to go to Birmingham and they'd say flat and such and such and degrees. And then he'd call another M. and they say you're going to have clouds at such and such a level and I mean I had to figure that out you had to learn to do that with a pencil and paper.

[00:59:26]
And it was it was not easy. But anyway. I was just beginning to learn I was about a page ahead of these kids I think they were young men and it was some boys group alway's who I never knew have say no and I would I would get caught in every job in the world but then right.

[00:59:49]
I did that for a while. Just does that and desert island chair Yeah it was awful. I mean am I guess this is all volunteer a life was. That is easy Dan as it is now. But then you're right. I remember the first time I guess right after the war when we didn't have to work on Saturday.

[01:00:12]
I mean you know Nando's people act like you're I seen them do something illegal. If you say it was part of the course ever but yeah I remember that the first it was the first job I had they when they said we will be working on Saturdays then Tim's proud to come in eight in the morning and then acting get a warning.

[01:00:34]
OK so now here we are and you're taking your issues took on the important taking your life and and US Now you're getting a chance to go with the C.H.P. route then they and but in the meantime. I had learned I had moved out of the boarding hands and I had found a girl whose husband was in the Navy serving in the Navy and she had a little officious if Art went up the street at fifteenth Street and beech tree.

[01:01:01]
She wants someone to share the rain. And I could do that for thirty but it was the rint was thirty thousand dollars a month on that apartment and nice little apartment. So you split that we split saying my gosh. And we had to pull the bay and out of the wall.

[01:01:19]
Murphy Bed any half that with so our saving money and rent. Anyway I was still flying in need never save money when your no no. Was it money was being right yet for your yeah but as there was some reason I owe. The four I moved in with her she had another girl living with her who was married to a Navy lieutenant and I had been sent up to Brooklyn Navy Yard and.

[01:01:45]
He called An Irish. That girl come to me and said Why don't you all come up and spend a weekend in New York and you know my husband Those are all these Navy people and they have to take you. Out and you might as well be doing that is if you can get a ticket.

[01:02:04]
Well it's very hard to get take it but but hey he works for what the scorching company then it was a brokerage firm in Atlanta a good one. And she was able to get to kick it sound the southern around the one. Pulling a train. In the meantime I had learned about a girl named Jacqueline Cochran from south Georgia who had started last she had begun teaching women are getting them together and they were working for the government.

[01:02:39]
She had married a man I think his name was Flo it Odom he was very wealthy man in New York. And. She about that is about believe that was his name and. He was helping her great deal and they got to know people in Washington. And so I I don't remember how I got in touch with her.

[01:03:02]
How I thought I would I just knew this is something I could do and I'm sure it was just so scuttlebutt around the airport that this is what she can do it. Let's say what that stands for. It was a when an air Women's Air Force service palace can't.

[01:03:18]
And. So again I'm going to New York I go to New York because that's where they are. So I would have all this. I'll just have yeah I'll let Rice and you know I only took the we can't take the land. I went to the wage into New York.

[01:03:39]
And telephoned. This husband act got the number of her phone with her phone that's all I didn't know was when he had her the phone and I said for her and and he said No I'm her husband who are your son and I told him who I was and I had come up there specifically I want to talk to her because that.

[01:04:00]
I was learning to fly and I was about ready to you know what could I did he said I can handle it for you. She's not in Thailand but I'll make sure that she gets information and will contact you and as I say I think a busy person if you want something then you ice the millionaire.

[01:04:18]
Back when it was hard to get us as in dollars and that was amazing to me but then right. Sure enough that's where they have they got in touch with me and that's how I got in touch with them originally. So you know OK so I come back and this little woman calls me one day and says I want to interview you know I'm down here from Mr Odum and Jacqueline Cochran is with company and.

[01:04:45]
But we want to interview you for was. That's wonderful. And I went to meet her and she said well you're a little bit you know you have to wait just part of a year. I guess but the worst part is you have to have some credentials you have to be able to pass a test on more advanced meteorology and never get a shot because I had no or none of that.

[01:05:09]
In the meantime and the of the flight school I was going to and I and I had clothes because since I'll go and find out on the hospital got to war that right. They had came just barely in time to get started and I was still able to rent the little planes and so she tells you that and more advanced I had to head this extra advised training before Act could get in.

[01:05:39]
And I said well I don't know where to go because. The flight school that I've been going to is closed and I don't know of anybody who's teaching that we're going to get it. And she just come right out and said Well what's wrong with Georgia Tech and I said well I don't think any girls have gone in.

[01:06:00]
There. And she said well they have a guide. Did she that you won't be icing for a regular school or credit that will that they will be reluctant to do you just go and I think it's a sure you can go beat whatever you do whatever you need to dig.

[01:06:20]
So does she flies back to New York or Washington wherever and I go to Georgia Tech. Now you go to Georgia Tech. I want Lockheed All right. You just I don't know I have and said Where do I want to talk to somebody about this and but somehow I think I might have just gone because judging from my reception they might not have said.

[01:06:43]
And then I'd walk in and I find this man. And he said it must have been the registrar whoever. And I did that one there any time because he said Well somebody just told you that who told you wrong because we don't have any girls and this school.

[01:07:03]
This is a boys' school and absolutely no girls are going to be going here. And I said well I don't know where to go and he said well that's you know that my problem or something I'm very sorry and very sorry but we just don't have any girls that's all there is you know it's not a discretionary thing we just don't have girls.

[01:07:23]
So you have acting tears or whatever and it right or right. And they got right and say they told me like tell me no that it's a boy **** and I can't do it and I don't know where I'm going to go or what I'm going to do I'll be in touch when I get more information or something to that effect.

[01:07:41]
Very soon after that. I get a call from the little lady that interviewed me. And she said we have towed. General have Arnold who was the head of the it was not an Air Force. Then it was the army an army air corps. US Army Air Corps. He said top general and he is a friend of Odom's and Jack and Patrick and he said you'll be hearing from them because we were able to see in the message that if they came accommodate us that we will no longer be able to send them in a money our continue their credit donation.

[01:08:36]
Warded So then I got a telephone call from George Bush with his so happy to have. It looked at funny on that app and. Let's see the manpower the women were allowed to come in under the manpower and when when we know when that was well it actually was an active by Congress.

[01:08:56]
By the assembly general somebody in one nine hundred forty and and the reason I'm wondering is because you know many have who didn't do that. Well we were a land grant school in Allegra's schools were ordered to a comedy. If we went to war. So when we did go to war in forty one and it was official then they would they were told to start but I think the work you know how it is we're just doesn't filter down and I don't know about it because I don't want the family to tell didn't tell God again that that I was talking to some of my hand.

[01:09:28]
I remember this so well and I don't know whether it was from someone I knew from work our way or. But he laughed and he said Well of course you're not going to get in there that's a boys' school and when I said well I did or something and he said no you did and they didn't want to believe that I have now.

[01:09:46]
Yet you know one hundred women were coming and he just stole many being as they had to be trained for the jobs the men were leaving just as your your little school was closed because they let us know our place. Yeah and. So there had to be training on that and they were definitely teaching navigation and meteorology and other things and now laid into them so they called you up and said Sure come on down.

[01:10:11]
Yeah right. And I still got a little card. I have no idea what I did it alone. We were in Iran are going. I'm sure I did a lot of that. And I only remember going in that it's a rather large pleasure. And you were and what you call it would make you said you remembered architecture I didn't remember that I mean I could be crazy but I just remember as they were growing up those steps into the Arctic here.

[01:10:35]
Well that was physics building or so without visit William Smith building officially but it was a building that had built and in the one nine hundred twenty and it was down near the library you had to go down. Jerry's really you knew you would have probably do you imagine you took the bus or did you go on.

[01:10:51]
I don't know I know I had up. I owned an airplane before I ever got a kid is that well you didn't fly to Georgia Tech. I'm sure but you were not that far away living all right. Peachtree and fifteen. No matter you and probably the class was full of men in uniform.

[01:11:09]
Of course as well as the BT navigation of Meteorology. It was all the troops that were being trained and so a lot comes as a fresh young lady who is that actually learning how to fly just like these guys had on a flight I would roll the classes and you probably went what.

[01:11:28]
Maybe three as a week so I don't remember him in the eyes I when I really don't remember that and the thing that I can't remember is how long I went some man. I must have done some tests are done something that I got. Like called and said you know come to Texas to Sweetwater which is where they trained you for the law.

[01:11:59]
So you got through that. Thank you for your extra must have had outage through that would have given way I'll give you a degree in art and you know I got you know as to just get in there and I don't even remember what that was you did get a certificate that meant that you finished I don't know I just I'm not sure about a few of the women say.

[01:12:19]
So we know that there were you know it was just a little thing that I was and it said Georgia School of Technology because now before it was a member. I was before that right. And yet when you were going to those classes you came at night because they were even if all evening school applied sciences.

[01:12:36]
You don't remember saying just guys. It was all just guys. I don't remember the fellows and I do remember that most of the time when we'd leave. We would go to Galway I was close to my home. Sure you were. But we would go to the Varsity. And have a hot dog or our injure were you again after classes.

[01:13:02]
So you must've made friends of mine the guys. Yeah it was where I was for sure. Ten. And sometimes I would go over there and have to suck it. We had a little gravel me right after after trying to go over that. And wanted all the time but I mean again I remember that.

[01:13:20]
So in that he not only a learning experience. No social experience right. And now. You get all kinds of information from different people that are working on different things and in different venues I mean it's just done. So nothing out there for nothing is ever wasted. Yeah it was a hang out.

[01:13:41]
But yet you got valuable information from being there. So once you had completed this prescribed number of weeks of doing this are months or you know you don't have a lot of I don't remember way back to ten of those a long time but I know that at first I remember vividly that the thing that just.

[01:14:00]
Threw me was when they said I'm not old enough. Because I knew that there was nothing I have to do that. I mean if I you know I accept what I had to learn and quantum physics acted learned and it's good but I couldn't do one thing about not being old and now let's figure out the math on that you were probably nineteen at the ten because twenty three was when I was twenty five to forty and read forty three was when you I mean when I was born and so it would have been a were you were nineteen years apart of three was when I was twenty.

[01:14:37]
Yes So this was forty two. We know for sure. And so just but as we've been going through the years. So you had just had your nineteen irony and they were just going to give you a little more time and I guess I had to be twenty but so are you getting do you wet Libin Florida you might have gone for a few quarters then to school and then three quarters and you did and you did make some friends and you were learning about navigation and meteorology so they were starting January like I own they were definitely they were definitely working big time in that field because it was no what.

[01:15:16]
As far as I know there's no other place and. Lana And I had never thought about this before. When I had to get examined to be sworn into the Y. sort of get into it. They had no facilities for women. They were a man. I had to go to the Naval Air Station and I go out there and said What are you doing here as and I'm going to the examination because I'm going into the service.

[01:15:50]
Well I don't know what you do but you can't go in there with the man and I think I can **** that Jane going though. So they they figured it out and I went where the nurse. Says I went and the doctors that examined the well and you must have been a very small minority of people actually going into this then.

[01:16:11]
Yeah it was a real smile now when you heard about the what you were still working for twentieth Century fun arrived at a time when you heard about one. So did you talk to you two were your boss and say to Mr balance well I will admit your balance was pushing me forever that you know go go go.

[01:16:25]
He wanted to he wanted me to do this because he you know was a big wheel in the. And so they've got that you were going to be doing up your job. So what are you going to get paid by the military. No you get nothing. Well yes.

[01:16:40]
Once I got in when she got in say a can I am had to pay all this myself. This is why I was in such terrible shape and because I get hungry whenever I had already or my right. So it's so you your what you do you don't quite have your plants license yet you get the navigational training in the matter of Meteorology and you got your certificate and am ready to go and so they assign you to Sweetwater he says everybody is sweet water Texas is where everybody went for their first training for Wasps.

[01:17:11]
OK but by this time you. You have to first had your physical and I don't have a feeling I'm down. And I'm on the train going to Sweetwater White Water Texas and I get the wire saying don't proceed to Sweet Water go back to your station. Because we're being closed down.

[01:17:32]
For goodness sakes. When I go by bus train I was yet I was really devastated I mean where do you go from here. And I went back and I picked up where I left off in a way I continued with Civil Air Patrol and that the and I don't know where whether wasps got in in our Whether it was actually the United States Air Corps out I just don't.

[01:18:00]
Remember that. But I was doing some. I was getting some orders here and there to flag this fly this plane here and this plane there in that plane. And now from that land i Reporter from Macon are from some you know local people and I remember they don't they didn't I was the only girl.

[01:18:26]
They didn't like me that way. I mean they were they should like to me should not. I don't I would like their hard life. So they would make fun of me when I would teach. I was teaching stuff then I would get up and teach I was what I had just learned I was very good at that what I just learned I could repeat the next night and I might not have been so good but that next night I still remembered and I had was teaching them and they would make remarks and I didn't have my uniform.

[01:18:57]
So so they were mean remark on this woman who will create the students the students get away young man that they were in primary training in the air for and that Air Corps. So you were already like Tara Yes I was simply trying was this was in Atlanta at the out of the out it what is now that Lana airport but was there in Canada field and they had they were here I am that I have a place that they can remove from me.

[01:19:35]
You know and they would like make they were making I want to I want these smart alec kids out was then how twenty twenty one. And so they would make comments about how you just can't keep it to be caging here and I and I said. You know are something you can do this and I said but what I can do is act in a war.

[01:19:55]
She was out of this course if you don't act better than you're doing. And then react. So the act that got mapped on a cross at that would didn't happen often but they were they were not just thrilled to have me I was taking up their space sort of due west and remailer jobs women were doing it.

[01:20:14]
Somebody was in that realm to have a measure well run yet there you were the really early day that you were so they and I am. I remember one time that I was assigned and to tell you a what was an old Stearman back playing. It was called a peak keep thirteen and it was the open talking with the two way.

[01:20:38]
And I was to take gas think it was to my can but I'm not even sure it needed repair with needed it. It really did. And I had to wear the Army issue. Which men and even a parachute. But the worst thing was the boot. The some way to about a hundred can at the most at that TAM that's hard to believe but that's what I was then and.

[01:21:06]
The smallest outfit small was uniform our shoes they had were just swallowing but had to work right away and go. Yeah then I go I want to not only that. And I was going to help make this guy's going to kick me out. He says want to put me in there.

[01:21:24]
I had to clan into that plane. Well that was almost impossible but I managed to get into the plane and he standing there tell me this is what you do this is what you do this way and I knew the plane was just on its very Leisel legs and I thought you know.

[01:21:46]
I'm terrified of flying this plane and I have about as much chance to get in there. You know is that due to the main would I say. But I thought Is it going to be harder to flag the plane. Are to get out and say I'm chicken makin do that is what I know which choice you made so that I would absolutely I think that made me on the run away.

[01:22:10]
I wanted you where I went but that I was terrified and that's not what looked like the most courage and I thought think of the great you had to do this you were flying different kind of lighting did you. I mean you don't even find for a couple years man right by the media Max.

[01:22:27]
That's just incredible that you were well look at all the youngsters that won the second world war. They were eighteen years old and had been flying six weeks. That's true. You're right you're part of it but not very often to someone's death and say well the women were making a contribution to well they don't they didn't he.

[01:22:46]
And you really were making contributions which is why the story has to be recorded and I mean this is really a remarkable thing you had your day job and you had your right child arrived there Yan weekend and your weekend it's really funny and my sister kept saying Why don't you get married she had two children by the end her had one bad day and maybe next one next year.

[01:23:07]
Adam I Was she married at eighteen had a child it. Nineteen or twenty. And now nobody could understand and I kept saying I've got plans but if there's so much I want to do I truthfully really had a lot. I wanted to do but you were enjoying what you were dad did love doing it can have a good time you were smart something to contribute.

[01:23:30]
I really enjoyed doing what I did enough. Did you have any social life at all. Did you guess that I had dated all the time I mean I had not all the time there were no man around or anything but what was I but what were there. I hate and ****.

[01:23:43]
And so it was that the model was yeah but yeah I did not have. I had one sort of romance. During this ten am a man that. One of the fellas I met that was he had a plane and he. He might have been the first one to play with when I was observing.

[01:24:10]
But you did it you know what I baited him and then he John he went into he became a chaplain in the Air Force when in the same majors he had almost everybody you would have had contact with was sooner or later going to be going and that's exactly right.

[01:24:27]
They were and in one case I don't know what franticly getting married because Right. If you interview well but he was he he never mentioned marriage and course I didn't either. We wouldn't dare do it in those days but then you're right. And I thought I would you know die when he left because I was in love with him I thought.

[01:24:47]
And it's another one and he came back and he was going to he was ready to get married got a good marriage. I could truthfully say no because I had planned somebody else. And that was terrible. Does that mean about the illegals Yeah people think they're in line and they don't even know what love is so that's exactly right.

[01:25:08]
Are you did change. Yeah. Absolutely. A.J. and change and now he was a lovely lovely person. And when I don't think of him finally that yes I did it. You're my family but then I had met John and I knew that when dating haven't come and I know the answer to be yes is go to the movies or do fun just in it was a.

[01:25:29]
Yes and let Yes and it was always go to the movie are just walking just out. We had no money and nobody that you didn't have money really. Maybe you double date it's one person had a car. But he made it and then you had a good time and we had a good camp where great and it was a happy time even though it was a difficult time because everybody was in the same boat me when I was that.

[01:26:00]
Good place to be a single Yeah it was as good as in Atlanta at that time. If you had been here while I was not the best place to move and get was very hard to get acquainted in and get started here. I think it's different now but I don't know for sure but there were four hundred thousand people here then and it was it was so I thought that next time I think I did and there were not all that many restaurants you went to a club if you were lucky enough to be in a club.

[01:26:27]
Are you went you ate in your home and also I had a kind. I act in her member feeding people at my apartment you know because there weren't there weren't that many well they won't last guns were around the room. Well as you're his sides I'm ashamed of.

[01:26:48]
There was here in stand that would have been up to that woman and you're right. Yes that was that and it was really nice but nothing. It was all expensive. Yeah and well I don't know that it be call'd expense about those dangers but that was you don't have any money and every now it doesn't matter but it but I'm I didn't have any spare time I when I said they had I didn't really date because I didn't have tanned to date enough to can't.

[01:27:19]
And then what. After you. I came back home and then I'm doing all this and I have to get a job. I didn't go back to twentieth century decided not to do it inside this Saturday I'm not going to go back. OK just had this ad and I want to go back and I got this job with this.

[01:27:38]
Concrete company. Mr builders because they would pay more. I was definitely needing more money master builders account Mr builders It was from Cleveland. I have and right away. I just moved dried up and I told you the story about what to tell them and I want you to tell me again that I because we worked on Campbell when you were telling me that Israel that was right and.

[01:28:00]
I went to check. The specifications for the repair of the new riches Dan Dan your job. There was a technical job you were you actually I came in there to be the office manager and just handle all the details and you very kindly I heard Whitley. Found out that I was really needed in these other areas and they had a secretary for me and just said get out and do what you need to do I would go down and read the specifications of new jobs coming out.

[01:28:33]
I say of my gown and so all the materials to the architects and they wrote it in and then I would watch and when they make that pick on drag. Yeah I would go to the contractor to make sure they used to materials this can so and one of the jabs you had was with that renovation it reminded bridges and I went down there and they were supposed to ease.

[01:28:55]
A particular concrete that had a lot of irony in it. The rebar in the barrens and they are. Like shrapnel almost just bits and pieces of a crap and set to it. They put that in sat all the concrete it makes it much stronger and when they embed this heavy equipment.

[01:29:20]
It holds it so that it doesn't shake it doesn't come loose from the concrete it. It could legitimately I took a legitimate product is not just. For cosmetic reasons. So you so I go down and they're not putting in enough of that it's not going to do and so I went over and complained and mentioned it.

[01:29:43]
You know you're not in this right now. That's how we were told to do it and I said well is just not going to. It's not going to be approved. Not if I quote There's so I went home and I went back. He he called and he got the man.

[01:30:00]
The architect Stevens is a life name of that. Firm Wilkinson Stevens or something but then you're right he said I don't play with I can't deal with a woman I'm just not gonna do for you. Very proper. Suited not not and workmen's clothes suited and everything and that of the as perfect about it.

[01:30:21]
And I am went back and then I sent one of the men who was by the way also fairly new. But then you're right the man at Sears Rich's said she. What's wrong here. Whack a wire and I are going to have that you think I might have trouble here and he's in the main man and said yes you're Evan and that putting in of him because when it's not going to hold up and so forth.

[01:30:50]
And he said what can I do and. Remember Bill Matthews and he said I had to come back and tell you I had to go back and I said whispering. How what and it went. You can do to make it pay as you must. And that you got in the last half hour.

[01:31:08]
Then a number of two maybe years or so later maybe not that. I was at a dinner and this was for the United Way or something. And this man was the layers and I was there and he actually got up and said he wanted to apologize. But what he'd say and how he was a client I said and but you were so nice.

[01:31:34]
He said to me but you were always so nice and I said I got ten percent everything. That you bought from my company. And you can always get in about you want to die with zombies I get my ticket for you get it you know what the bottom line was is and it really.

[01:31:57]
And so it was tough in the workplace. I mean you. Never mind you meet at it. School and you met it in the training field you met it when you were a pilot and you also med it in the workplace just doubting whether or not. A lot of that this time you got the idea you were going to go in that school.

[01:32:16]
I didn't know what I was going to do I had this job that paid fairly well and that was a big priority. But it wasn't a great job or I mean it was not a career. OK And I thought what do I want to do what can I do what do I want to do and.

[01:32:39]
I thought you know. I go to law school just like that. I don't want to go to last through that phase and there were added want to be a lawyer a new couple of women lawyers and I knew I didn't want to be that but felt lost go ahead appeal you want to learn what there was to learn or I was running into obstacles in some schools like Emery you can go to night school there and go out sorts of places but they don't apply and toward a career of course they don't really you know just for your fun in a way.

[01:33:13]
And so do you and I had to go at night I had to work. I mean you know it was like forty years so I got it all right. I could not do anything you know so that law school was it in that's what I did at the site I went into them.

[01:33:26]
Yes they would buy Devon and did you find that interesting. I loved it. I really liked it. I had a great time and I remember there again there were three women and about sixty man in the class. And I remember one of them. One of the men making the smart remark and newly in fear was teaching a class and.

[01:33:53]
He made some remark about me I would ask a question. It might be naive and stupid. But I didn't care I was asking if I needed to know I wasn't ashamed just pretend to be dumb as I was mad and at least trying to get smart. And I go right and he made this man made some kind of a mark and knew all said.

[01:34:18]
If I were you I would not have anything like that to say because her grades go I'll the way. From ninety two up. And here's a hard hand seventy. So he got put in his flight he got put in and do a bit that was do says our grades are always ninety two.

[01:34:40]
And I am one of the then i think i might be the only one that finished in that I don't know. I didn't maintain I don't think that ninety two or ninety five or nine year average because the life course was real property and that was my Poor's object.

[01:34:57]
You still have a nice dream laneway ad met my husband that was a and then act changed and went to. Then I had the opportunity to do the baby tend to work. Became the action that was your next job but that was years you finished an Atlanta law school and by this time you met John so tell me I'm a head.

[01:35:22]
Hi Jimmy his brother who is the father of all these nephews and talking to you within my last goodbye so see there was a reason for you to go yeah. So you had Janet on there thirty A.M.. One day. I had broken up with somebody a man was ringing her hair she says you're going through the garden of life and you're passing all the flowers you're going to end up that way.

[01:35:50]
Nothing but a we don't really it really is very colorful up there but you. Dear going to end up with the weed now good thing at him but I don't. Him ANY hand so his brother made sure what he said and I've got a brother. You should know he came to the.

[01:36:08]
I was staying for the weekend at man. In the country and man and these are the bran and so they have that in that area and that's where the party was being where I had a date with I had a date with his brother. Because they he weren't in him.

[01:36:26]
I did somebody picks you up. How did you do your job. The brother. I asked me for a day in class in law school because he was the host and they had this place that I'm OK with their pay and with and I didn't want I wouldn't go with him for in the he was not in one I was interested in but he said I want to talk to Beth something and he said Damn.

[01:36:51]
And engaged to a girl and Astro Yeah but I think I need to have a hostess for the party is for the law school. He was so I was in gauging that to be yelled at and just be with him so I was so relieved like goodness. This'll be one day just a one day.

[01:37:12]
So I was not at all interested in going but at the reason I did he stepped stammered he stuttered and he was just so embarrassed to ask me just and he was funny in a hat and I just didn't have the nerve to decide you know. And that's why our in-depth with that and that came to it so he came to get me Saturday night.

[01:37:35]
And I was finishing up a man went to the door and she came to me and she said I've just met the man you're going to marry and I am. No you're not. You really think so and I went and it was John he had come with Jesse and now he was your all be your aunt knew that right out there and I said that I mean but she did they loved each other till she died.

[01:37:58]
But if it had. But that she could see that he was out of it and you got out of debt. He met the may have met there and you're going to marry. Well four years later I'm married and but then you're right I got to sell the job with baby tendinitis so that all right now you know anyone can start dating after that.

[01:38:15]
Yes when I have a date about once a week or maybe two weeks and something like that and he went out to get married. He wanted to get married and I was saying no no he got no and he'd been four years or forty eight in the army he was in office and he came in the Air Force actually and he was also a lawyer.

[01:38:33]
Yes he was he had a good thing in the Army. In Him He came home and really wanted to settle down which is understandable. And I said no no no I'm not going to get married. I don't think and he said this don't say anything man just forget us that that will just start over something that wasn't even met in about nine hundred forty six and you know that was him and I in time for six again.

[01:38:58]
So hard and yet so excited to go to work for a company that produced by you tend as the little baby. Tables like you know having found that Jack was as if this uncle that wasn't too friendly to me at first had gotten it and that was smart and therefore you get like me and I have.

[01:39:22]
He had a friend that had the French as for this. Nationwide. And he Calma uncle and said you know would you like to take on the southeast Americas and I'm retired I don't I mean I would do you know what about it and it just out of the blue he says yeah I know somebody she just finished law school and she's smart as she can be and she could do that job.

[01:39:48]
And just and I mean that it. No. Are you. No no. No woman. Can that hand you know I always want courses still anything. And. But finally he decided well give her a chance. That's all they would get were chains if she can raise the money. And I went down she missed for a minute at the bank and said You know I've got to have twenty five thousand to start.

[01:40:13]
Twenty five as a new combat house then for ten that was a good one. And he said we can do that you don't have any record or anything and a credit Reno credit rating. No nothing. What have you got nothing but maybe a membrane you know. And somehow I don't know.

[01:40:34]
Somehow he said well do it I will not give you the time I will retain the title. I'll put a will put up the money and hold on to the title and as you have to my. Ship of my out of the warehouse to the state. You collect the money and then we'll.

[01:40:57]
Release the love stuff for you to say that so they were becoming a middleman in your business in a way that right. Are to then. And so that has started and after you know I had made profit right away because that it was all a cash deal practically.

[01:41:15]
And I did that for a while. Now so a lot of baby tenders didn't want it and that. And where you went then I was well you do one thing else to know you had I had it had I had their work. You had a friend you were acting a franchise.

[01:41:32]
I had six states and. These men each were in charge of their own state but they bought through me. I have bought at bottom from the factory and a half and I thought OK I literally have like a dub or I guess yeah that's what you call and so that's what I was doing so literally the deal you made with the bank which bank was it.

[01:41:56]
C.N.N.'s C.N.N. I always love seeing the show and they were so nice to me. And I that carried me through till I got enough capital to manage it on my own but they were ringing the mayor and everyone to get we don't have we can't count the same number you do and I said well I was out there on my feet and we you know can and I know he had their house over that it was aware as it were that a lot at the end of a get out at the railroad in a junction because the railroad was the way everything was getting Israel has a literally so you get a whole are a lot of merchandise and you literally had only I had I had to back by the carload it was twenty five thousand for Carlo hot so that's how come that was the twenty five to start with was to buy one carload then you sell it to make a profit and then pay them back.

[01:42:46]
And then they did it and that's the way the whole deal with. Yes you carry so I got through that and then but now I am no skip to when I get got married because so you did that for about four years you maintained our relationship years arena as I said OK And meanwhile you finally made up your mind you were ready to get married and it was and you didn't act I did.

[01:43:13]
I thought it's probably ten but I was not ready. No I was not quite ready. But I had been at it. I went to visit man a sister and before this happened and back up to several years before I had a power after I was after I came back from the wasps and everything that I had an apartment.

[01:43:40]
I had a letter or something from my mother. And then decided she was only twenty six I was twenty when she was when it. She was twenty when I was born she was twenty six and she lived and have much longer and I agonised. Carrying on this feeling because she made a mistake at twenty six and I called and told her Come visit me I had this apartment and you know I'd like to see you.

[01:44:14]
So she did and so we had a nice little visit. OK I needed to put that in because I had been up to visit my sister in Memphis and and cousin and I came back and I had a date with John on Sunday night and I he we had dinner in a movie that's what we always say it.

[01:44:36]
And then came he brought me home and he said this is something I want to talk to you. Bad. Had ninety's. You know four years ago I asked you to marry me and. You weren't ready to talk about it he said Nan and I had to know something because I want to have a normal life and I'm home and children and everything and I want you to either say yes you will marry me or I want to go find someone who will.

[01:45:06]
Will but then I was saying Never mind never mind. Yes I was going to say Yes yes he says no you have to look Thursday Emma come back on Thursday and you can tell me. Well I said I want our dinner and something I don't know but he says no I'll see on Thursday I'm OK That tells you what kind of person he is so in in here.

[01:45:25]
I was frantic at that he found somebody else. He did a good little bite instead it. What would have been a little you know like now let's just what I said that all these others just fell. The ones that I went diving with than the ones that I went partying with and all this death just that were there more.

[01:45:47]
And knew that he was I had known that and knew that he was a person of integrity and honor and al the things and a darling sweet person you just for granted but I wasn't quite ready. Well but then I was. Twenty seven and it was time so they and and my mother came to my wedding.

[01:46:05]
And that was so when John came back on Thursday the answer was yes I think that exist and question about that. And so then you started arranging your wedding and then your mom that was comes and that was in the summer with married in October October fourteenth. And now.

[01:46:21]
You get married here in Atlanta somewhere married and play in the Morea chapel is that the one hand. Right. Emira. And Dr Mackey makea away. Dr Mackey McKay maybe. But then you're right. And that's where we're married and the head reception it. Man knuckles plays out in the country.

[01:46:48]
And we moved into our hands. Instead of having the wedding we got to have and where we should first and it was Alston drive. Right across the street from Eastlink country club do you know where that is there's a really ran Diane Pretty badly but I think they're fixing it all up which I was to do two doors from the Whilst in last there was an article about it yesterday in these paper.

[01:47:17]
So you landed. So you're right over there. I was right over there and. We there was a there's a store back there but I have but that's immaterial it's more of the brand I'm sad sad but then let me turn it into a very established family here and play around established friends.

[01:47:35]
His father was a banker and he retired back to Atlanta he lived. John's mother. Was a very interesting person she was Pennsylvania Dutch they lived in Pennsylvania. They had their home is out there is in books out of nowhere. I think I gave him. To David. She was a musician.

[01:48:05]
She went to Julliard one of the I don't even know was college junior then but she was a. She was a concert pianist really good. No one ever paid intention to her because she met this man and I guess they loved each other and he was smart ambitious.

[01:48:25]
A great person really and they married and he'll walk ten or fifteen banks up in New Jersey. He went up there weren't so she didn't have any I weary and I didn't. And yes she never had any careers she just imagine the children if they had they had five children.

[01:48:47]
Head just it was two girls and then John and then eight or nine years later they had the fifth child done but it then event. They came down here and now. His father he had made a lot of money by then. And could afford to buy like four hundred acres so south east Atlanta.

[01:49:14]
Used to land. I where it was the head. Lakes and they had deer and I just ran some O. newspaper stuff I was going through yesterday get pictures of their place but in any event. His father Dad but when Janet just had one year University of Georgia and he came back and finished at Emory because his mother was alone.

[01:49:38]
The girls had married Bo in many ways and in hang out where they had married at that point by Daniel right. He came back and finished at Emory. And then went to law school at Emory. And that's a story of that time but his mother the last thing he did John did before he went to the hospital when he died he wrote I'm just hyper.

[01:50:00]
Like this about his mother and what a wonderful woman he paid tribute to her. Yes. Her story and one longing to someone other talents and I said I had to remember how his her name was Cecilia Marguerite Lurie's and of worms the show our age the stories and Germany.

[01:50:24]
And and he remembered what a wonderful pianist she was and everything about her she contributed in Atlanta. She played in Oregon and played the piano. She was a great. She was a giver and a great great mom and he wanted everyone raved about the father because of Father gave money and did certain things but he didn't give of himself.

[01:50:51]
And John could see that his and other media and other day and I also he made a point of saying. The seed money that went into the banking business came from her seat but she never told it. That kind of the way society treated that that whole thing and she married.

[01:51:11]
Allen you know that's just the way society treated that. So you had found yourself a very good position you were in a good position moving to East Lake and you're not going to live in an apartment anymore but now you've got a house to have an absolutely lovely have and a lovely house and does your husband think you can still work or does he want you to quit your job doesn't really want me to work and he does which I didn't care much all of that time right.

[01:51:37]
But he didn't manage it wasn't he just we didn't discuss that. So much he had just finished writing a book and didn't have a job and my family was furious. You mean you're going to marry and I didn't have a job and I think that if a person like you and one of which money has a hit.

[01:51:54]
I don't know. Not much because we've got our dad here and what we're doing. And you're going to marry. You know my mother and I said No I you know I'd marry him if he if he does and I have an image his name is if you did you know I mean that's not what you base a marriage at.

[01:52:11]
Now the obviously some people in my family didn't think I am and I was going around. Now I don't last chapter we know we've got you married. Finally. But just family was a little bit upset because you married a man who wrote a book and didn't have a job.

[01:52:34]
So look at Bill to John right. It was a fiction but it was Col Rowe country. And it's a story about Dan in south Georgia when he first came home from the service he that was that where his father was from than in the near States for instance and then believe it is.

[01:52:54]
Bullet can. And and he I guess he had no police state with the sense that OK So he was either a wit or were head Mariama way and so he as a said he wrote that book did he have a publisher if he just got a book that a publisher's from the lab or and sent it to the first one and the first one to do it and you're kidding me.

[01:53:23]
That never happened. I know it doesn't. And so that book actually got published Absolutely. And the first marriage about I had I not been at a very long way in. And now we're going to all these literary Atlanta literary whatever it is and arrive just go at it.

[01:53:40]
Yeah. And how come all the book to it for you because he was invited as a good is what he has published not that Bush start or that just does and hand you know that was Wow that's amazing. So then he. But then the worst thing was that he was a lawyer.

[01:53:58]
We have to remember that it's not he's never. Fashion. He just didn't that what you want to do with the law to try. He had worked at think for briefly for a lawyer's tied Atlanta to whatever it was as manager of the underwriting department. And I don't know maybe that's when he quit to write the book or something but then he didn't work anymore.

[01:54:23]
And then. They called him back and I him. We had been married very long. And they asked him if he'd like to come back they would buy. Rehiring. And he said well maybe sometime but I promised Betty had to take or do in New Orleans. But that will in the end they would like to me up off the floor and I did and we could go to new Rowlands another day.

[01:54:54]
You know we're going to New Orleans that my rain. This is the rain he got you in your eyes the rain down night was beautiful and thank you. And so he like to travel to yes he was very adventurous and that was the beginning of the John and Betty of the road show that you know I don't have until my children were out of Mass school.

[01:55:16]
Maybe that lice year or two I would not leave them overnight. OK And you read that was the first time what you owe and that you're on a road trip and it yeah we didn't have that line yeah I did it by hand. Yeah well I went one can that I do remember after that.

[01:55:31]
Yeah like you both did enjoy it. Yeah and we both like to move ran and you came back to find you were pregnant. I would. Yeah right in new things live a dinner right. That was a very very nice trip but then during the time that the children were growing up we live.

[01:55:50]
Sadly years. We live a seven years and also address on ALS to drag and then we bout that. I judge the picture right now in that period of time you had two children and I had two children and I helped a man build and a quick and off this ship with a Gilbert Will Withers he was into electronics or something.

[01:56:17]
Crystals and he had done that during the war he did some of them. But in hand he built this and I went and helped him. Do that because he said you know how to put in office together and I said I sure do. So John didn't object to that they in that.

[01:56:33]
Yes to that they would get the boy started school and he's like area or we gone by that and we do it about what the time is just as they were in one of the old one out one year. OK Tell me about the boys that was the oldest son was was waist John John Westervelt and we call it the way I want him last.

[01:56:52]
And he was born in one hundred fifty one right in the end of August nineteenth. He did live and then David was they who was born into fifty three early January or early him fifty two because they were close together yes they were and lots of fun of the first one was a blue eyed blonde in the.

[01:57:12]
Just a second one was brown hair was brown How did you like being a mom. I loved they were cute and I we did everything I mean I enjoyed playing with them you know. However much as I like and that and I was able to have help. It was different from the days to day Act that have all the help I needed.

[01:57:36]
But starting at age two. They were ready for Sunday school and all the activities from church and they also were old enough to take to the lake over it. And he's like and I started them and they were jump. They were diving off the batting boarded a three and making a speck.

[01:58:00]
McKillop themselves very good at it is an adult and yes John into golfing did you did you know it is the end of it. He was and got out kinds of platters and things in there where he was a. Club change and the reason I ask is of course we all know Eastlake was where Bobby Jones I was young and early eighty's and so many of the great players were around Reiman you would have known never been exposed to I knew them well not to not post that they were older than yeah then you die and die at the Yanks were good friends of mine.

[01:58:40]
They lived right around the corner from where I live where you live and we've been good friends. And Diane in Margaret Yates on the wrong plug on the. Burke haven the first day or so that we knew. So you were pretty happy there for the first several years and you got the boy started to I said as fat man and I have to worry aging and they were out in the country still still and they had to get out there was no.

[01:59:10]
They had no body to look after my help them or do anything and she was and they didn't need hundred acres but then they don't like about the place next to them and when they were able to find a buyer which was extremely difficult for that kind of property add in that experiential.

[01:59:27]
They moved into Bourke Haven peach tree in a really nice apartment ten which was a good long ways from East Lake. So forever so we. I knew but I got them to go east like I mean to the Berg cave and because I knew people had already started looking and R. and started looking and knew I wanted them out that the neighborhood was deteriorating and he said like an eye for stewardesses and I'll.

[02:00:00]
Ans ARISS I was we needed to move and I started looking I had been looking at must have looked at fifty has is in the area where and where we eventually moved. But one of the reasons was also we had by then got manna from Brazil a good keeper.

[02:00:17]
I had already been out on that in at the end of their last that was but their every day which was not far but nice. David has to have been. David has to been. Fab and then when you know when we moved there. And now with head his sixth birthday there.

[02:00:49]
There's And I you and I but I have it work that I love and will be handling for a living by this time I know he did go back to work for lawyers title and stay there for a short period of ten and he was approached by lieu of all the title company to open a brain here and here and land at which he did and then he decided very soon after that he just start one of his own and he opened one call southern title.

[02:01:27]
I think that's right in this terrible. He had a couple of partners and then he opened a company called Guarantee title insurance company with. Partners Griffin Bell and Trammel McIntyre and now there was another fellow that was in there for a while. John De Mar SAS nor was also in there and was Janet was doing the work I was that they were present.

[02:02:00]
There's And John was doing the work and did the company man the company did pretty well except that. I believe first Wellington and no first. Trammell was made a pointed a federal judge and he had to give up ownership in a company that would that it was legally.

[02:02:24]
Connected to the probing of the profession. So he had to get out of that. So we bought he is and then it was a while before rescinded but Griffin went on to being a judge and then going to Washington. And then he gave a death and all that and then during Lent and then he he went and with another man and woman.

[02:03:05]
You know. He and Bob Crawford. Took over another Atlanta. Tyler company and. Because Chicago tile. And trust wanting to come into this area and they wanted John they would have bought anything that he was in and he had he made a deal with them that he would be their general champs on an Arctic to sell that company.

[02:03:40]
They didn't want anything they didn't want to compete with him. Nobody did and he was he would. So he then he that was his found work was and she kind of go time will hand he moved in to the top of the so our place. So instead he went back to.

[02:04:00]
A lot instead of being Ted a company but he was general counsel for sure. Brackets I don't think she sighed and. But this is down further we moved into that has a fifty eight children will one funny thing about my little boy. David. When he was by out I had started turning gray I would bad.

[02:04:28]
Pretty gray and merrily thirties and now I decided one day this is not that this does. I'm not ready for it yet written in it and when I said you know made my hair or whatever color it did. And I came home and and I it was first grader second I'll read first grade I guess first grade.

[02:04:51]
And he says mommy. Now you can get a scoop here no older than the other guy me in his skill of learning never done that and he had faced our day years so I said you know. I'm just not going to keep food in with this colored hair I'm just going to let it go back.

[02:05:11]
I can't stay in food NG with this they've to please don't. Mommy I love Irene share. I'm so he was you have fully let that down and I had all different colors and you never know from one one dependent time one time to the negs all that I mean could be anything you can be whatever you want.

[02:05:33]
Yeah Rana So you were in for cavemen for a lot of years forty eight years and it was a happy time it would have to ten. You got involved with Cartman clubs and that was one of your vet so you worked were you a hands on Gardner. He was the hands out Gardner he was in love and I helped because I would go and yet I would make deals with everybody intended trait Billups and like and play and.

[02:06:00]
Because everybody likes to do that but he I mean like. That's what Cher but but they want. He wouldn't go do all this I am as always sharing you what the **** you stand up for and we were active an hour of the guidelines and I was out then you got and I was president president of the.

[02:06:22]
And in tell me what was the flower show was held at that time at the well that first they were held at Rich's stand I am but they and they were held. When I was president we had them at. There's a big touring that Linux. And we used to tour a minute.

[02:06:40]
So the Garden show moved around is what you would meet with her and it would but it started at one time which is yes because Elizabeth. Frank just to get here OK. Edmonton. Good for Hakon still Yeah I did. Yeah but you're getting her. This but it misses Frank it means he was the Navy captain which is a nice job to have any Have we did I did that and I was that was.

[02:07:17]
I was a brain new prez member of the kind of put up a state. Garden Club I had only been in a year or two or something. And this woman Colleen she says one she please exact term to be for a to be president of the junior flash Association and that's the one that does all the big stuff and I said No I just can't do that.

[02:07:41]
I've got this to go to the reasons and she said them and I said No you just have to get somebody else. And the new member why don't you. How And I asked. Somebody else that's been here longer. She's an R.T.A. and then her body. Just to do you have there you were there everybody in your family you should great organizational skills yeah right.

[02:08:07]
Was acting how to do their share it did and it was successful. When I did it and did you belong to the book came in Country Club. There can't be no we didn't know I would even still go to that Lana athletics club and when all the way out but while I was president of all these things the different clubs around town.

[02:08:26]
With a sent me the letters to say that. Please feel free to use their club for any activity has very nice. Yeah. And now they have mother I had looked out there went to dilute thought that I did lose and they closed the one down to an even a what is man.

[02:08:42]
There's anything there but probably ask that's interesting because Atlanta is so much made up of you know the Piedmont drive in close run a capital city and yes. Driving to more than anything when I was doing these different things. Because if you wanted to raise money or to get people to work.

[02:09:03]
And you invite them to the driving plan. They all work. There's just got to caches has got that about it. So I would use and it's natural to Atlanta to summarize she wouldn't go far out because they'd be hard to get more people so that work and that's what I thought I saw to school.

[02:09:22]
They had went to pace and. You know with going to wherever he could get in that year and he had the hijab the dollars I would call a handful. He was a handful. He was always a handful so the Saints were paying him but actually had probably actually like me and.

[02:09:43]
But gradually he graduated from Grady. But day that he was in place for a number of years went back to North Fulton rather when he I guess when he started high school years and went there. And now I graduate from the awful both excellent It will manage it.

[02:10:05]
He. David didn't know where I wanted to go to college but he went up to Swanny in Tennessee and what was his interest. He really didn't know he wasn't sure he it's a good theology school and he thought maybe that he people go through teenage years. They want to do something that matters.

[02:10:30]
And that's what I did basically and everyone does that and you and I should have a drive to something. It's just to do something meaningful before you finish college he had to Saturday he wanted to be a doctor. I wasn't sure he wanted to be should be one but add just let him track me and he was late apply and he had to wait an extra year and I thought goody goody.

[02:10:57]
He had to go to do something else and he didn't know what message. Well if you want to be a doctor. No matter which want to be going to Georgia state and get a business get an M.B.A. you need an M.B.A. a just a graduate is now in there.

[02:11:11]
And he did it and it was exactly. I knew that to evolve from the beginning and I was so gratified. He just went in there was straight A's and everything great notes that this is wonderful. You know the so he didn't bother with medical school health and it never leaves I mean he and his niche was business serving as him but if that was where and with star dad I will Thorpe and at the end of the first semester I got a letter from Dr Emerson Amosun and Emerson that said.

[02:11:44]
We have it. We have rather enjoyed. Him. He had a great hand but here after please have him have the great tans and. And so many words but that's what he said and then. We moved into what was then the cab junior in and he finished there he got to Poland to cred.

[02:12:11]
For P.. But no Seesmic he didn't even make it in P.. It was in orientation. Because he got in orientation. So that was the end of his college and he did death every sort of thing you can imagine. And he had a great life when he dad thought he'd been as you saw and wouldn't have any friends so that we just have a service at Arlington which is where you spring into him and there was room for you know fifty sixty people that Solomon knew that proud of the fab they are you have never seen such an admiration of people there were Pepsi trucks.

[02:12:51]
There were limousines six feet and six. Streets they had. Every kind of people you've ever seen. You can see what it was how they were with the one who was he there were only women he was a lot like you mama. Yeah give them any work seein that at the time.

[02:13:10]
You just or you had a hard can a lot of times you know just because sometimes that's because so much time. And that he never met a stranger he went out and he said to my buddy. He would come sit in a chair in my bedroom and I would say what you want to do then he said nothing and I said we've got to want to do something you have to want to be something.

[02:13:31]
And he said the latter I have to want to be something I just would be either to sit here in this chair forever. So you and your hand he just didn't really want to grow up years that that's probably right which is that Peter Pan but then you're right he did a lot of different things.

[02:13:48]
And what he wanted to do at the moment was fan or not he dad six months after Jan so I had a hard year that was a good year. What year was that going to do. That in September of one nine hundred eighty eight and David in. And David and read I got married in.

[02:14:09]
Set in December of eighty eight and with that in March or April of eighteen then. Mind you did have a high and that was about a year and so John never had to go through what you had to go through that yourself is saying last time again and again there was a greedy you had to take care and it was a it was hard.

[02:14:37]
David was very helpful even though he was living in Florida then. Well he rose. He always did he always did when he had to do something he did talk about John a little bit he like after the boys were on their own enough you could travel we you did some remarkable being a big I went where he wanted to go.

[02:15:02]
What did happen not long after. And well no he did and I think thirteen years when that didn't seem possible but then forty years that of the hasta. He was out of all you know. He had been a few years at. Chicago cattle and they and their executives had to go for routine physicals and for the first time he and he just he had barked all the way through for the first time he let his secretary make the appointment he went in them.

[02:15:36]
Monday morning and then they called me and said bring him straight to the hospital and and call the office and he said well I've got a bunch of lawyers from out of the country acting do it man. And I said well I'll be there with your pajamas in a robe and you just come as soon as you can.

[02:15:56]
Which he did and he had what they call thrombocytopenia. And that is. He didn't have enough platelets. And his blood wasn't plotting. And he was OK's I'm sittin Brucey energy and how they did all kinds of things and he was the one that never and nothing ever worked that took out his spleen they found a bit to monitoring with land which it took off but it was not dangerous.

[02:16:24]
So he started having a lot of health issues he had health issues then we went up to Mayo those three cans I guess but then you're right. Shortly after that I mean he was not sick he was just an hour away from dance if he was not near a hospital where they could give him a place where am sure of.

[02:16:49]
Why you and I mean but he was on some therapy that they used to looking at ANY had to have that every two weeks the the derivative every time. What and when that in the time that you could travel well I'm am going to say this have been like in January bad the tan my April I'm a got a rant.

[02:17:14]
He was looking at brochures. He said Why don't we do this. Why don't we do this. And we started travelling. And the first one was a cruise with a visit it and believe that Amsterdam to begin with. Before we got on the cruise and then of these it in Lisbon afterwards and that was fun.

[02:17:37]
We and then all the places in between as it was a ship stopped. Do you think it was because he realized that you know he had there comes a point in time when you realize you're on board all being you I'm sat in my cell and smell the roses right away.

[02:17:50]
I Phone. He was a reader from the beginning he was not like me. Somebody said how did you ever get together because he never speaks and you know. And I said that makes a person. I mean what could be more burglary subtended story. He would do that is I want to speak.

[02:18:10]
I want to think. So you're letting him see words you know have to stand there he told me about the time you went to London to the big tell that they went and I met a nice but yeah you know that's something I mean that and in fact the first trip we ever made was to Paris and then to London and then it was not a cruise that now this one was too.

[02:18:35]
I really don't know because we didn't have David and we used to have David at the beginning and he would go with his when he could. He was also supposedly working. We had an invitation through the agent that I don't you. We had been using a travel program a person in shock go.

[02:19:00]
Invitation to Cuba go to Royal Ascot. If we wanted to because Bill but when the agent said If you want to go and the year before I had contacted him because there was a an article someone sent me from a Texas paper paper that said from for those of you who have been ever way down everything do we have a trip for you and it was this man and I wrote and said I'd like to know about this trip.

[02:19:35]
But in the meantime John and I went to La Cruz. But John loved it. It was fun came home and he flopped. And the maid said Mr Brennan David's planning to go with you to Europe big Christmas to said you're going to take him to England thing I thought of yeah that was back when I ain't sure that thing.

[02:20:00]
And I mentioned it. John I said John what are we going to do that it is got somebody to help we're added his job and he thinks he's going to go Christmas. This was in November. And then maybe the end of November and John said. Well I just got home I hope I am and I said you're right we can do it and he said Well.

[02:20:21]
All right. I did have many of the thirty year olds want to go with their parents. I'm aware they don't want any part of their parents. He said Let's go out whatever you do whatever that thing is we'll go now. That was not this trip that you have iced about this was a one before.

[02:20:46]
That we we went to London and environs and we had Christmas and New Year's and it was a really really great actress wonderful it was a wonderful trip and David got to see his first ballet and I was worried about that because at seven. John is not crazy about ballet loves the music but but one thing is not because it was a woman's thing.

[02:21:13]
And. But David act when it went on and that he was and I thought thank goodness he does have that from me and he had that from his day. He enjoyed everything because everyone liked him and we went to we stayed at the most stately of all stately homes while we were there.

[02:21:34]
And we stayed at this sort of all in the embankment rooms and we did everything went to the New Year's Eve ball at the Savoy and he actually David actual data stack Aaron Brown. But any had John was doing these things and them. Down the road we had this special invitation.

[02:21:56]
That said if you'd like to go. We'll see if you'd like to go that we can have. At lunch. I would go to Royal Ascot and have lunch with my. So I said OK guys. John Courson John says yeah we do that. See how that is and so they have to visit you.

[02:22:15]
That's why I add that we got the invitation early make sure they send your question and you got to do that. And John had to have this outfit that he had to wear. And so when we got there. That was one of the things we did you actually met Cleena Louis actually met the Queen and Prince Philip de France Philip and the queen Queen Mother that John set of a sad and he said he took a real interest in why we're crazy about each other and then afterwards too there were eight of us in this old group that Bill was taking over and.

[02:22:56]
So I was not impressed with any of them but I thought you the Queen Mother was very nice and so we actually had an invitation to go to the garden party at Buckingham Palace and I thought well I have a way or you know because I figured we're going but no it was just Janice apparently he made a good in them for impression that the queen mother added him reality to get his name so I mean if you read about her in history.

[02:23:26]
She was very down to earth. She really sweet little lady yeah didn't have a whole lot of nerves about her. No but neither does. Elizabeth. But she's a little more I guess a little more active and pretend to say I know work as I don't but I mean you know she I guess most of it is just pictures of things as a but she seems more laid back or some than she did when I think they me like he's not she doesn't throw away around as much as you might think think.

[02:23:57]
He did. Philip Philip back. Didn't I hear he didn't even take to him I didn't take him but he did he was there because he's right. He's paid to this is his job. Ron He was the consul. And he was still in on that many people can imagine that kind of vacation so it's a pretty cool trip pretty to talk about you have taken.

[02:24:20]
How many trips around the world war three life that you know that I've done on the. The cruise ship they do one every year it's called World Cruise and it is usually staged dice either at Los Angeles are in Miami and it makes a circle again and does this step and it usually it takes.

[02:24:47]
Around a hundred days to a hundred and ten days. I have actually done it. Now John has this was after John dad John could not began more than thirty days really of muppets and so your trips with him were regular more art. Yes my last you know monologue.

[02:25:08]
And then but and then we had started here. We had started doing that at the cruising because it was a little harder to do the lion trips and I mean this thing is they call a it is likely L Absolutely. You can do it but we had our he been to just a lot of places and now we know he was ready to get on a cruise ship in us and that guy is relaxed and he told me that dancing on the cruise ship was something you enjoyed doing well and you know I didn't that he wasn't that great like the casino and I liked Al the entertainment has marvelous entertainment and then you get to go to wonderful wonderful plays So after playing this year.

[02:25:56]
So after John passed away that I just continued so much. Said you still doing just what you did and I said Well John would want me to sit in the chair and cry alla dental course I mean he when he knows what you're going to be watching and he's very watching very improving this and in on that but and so you and you get three around the world.

[02:26:20]
I've done fab five all together. So you've been around the world five times and now one can just wait a minute. When was this. John and I would go every Christmas to serve my not that's where the matter **** is that's a little village below the mat are in Switzerland.

[02:26:42]
And one year we took David maybe two but want to know and then after that we would go to the Emma and spin and new you know years and that's where Jemmett that Walter Cronkite and how did and how did that come about teaching math and he was covering it.

[02:27:04]
FIRST TO BE A was doing the New Year's Day ballet being a ballet or concert whatever that they'd broadcast for public broadcasting every year we were there a little bit before that and the ballet the chord to ballet or whatever you want to call it was going to do this performance for us there were about twenty four of us that time.

[02:27:31]
And we sat on little gold chairs and out come the ballet and do the ballet farce which was fun before dinner and Walter Cronkite was going to was there to see our to do something and we met him that's all just meeting for nothing more than that. Really.

[02:27:50]
And then years later will face forward from there. To. A few years ago maybe eight years ago I am alone. Walter Cronkite and his wife Betsy are on the ship. And also one of the passengers. Is. And he introduces me to Betty and surprise surprise that he remembered.

[02:28:25]
See I am I have been man has been and I had met him you know as anybody remember you from then and he did. Wow But I had more and more impressive people than that remembered. But in any event he had received a bet he had recently Beth his wife and they invited me to have a drink in the land before then or now Barbara Walters was wont to say was on the trip she was giving a lecture one morning or telling a matter whatever she did out of no I didn't go.

[02:29:01]
She snapped one but in a rage she let it not be known all over the ship. That she didn't want to be bothered with people who want to shake her hand or say anything you weren't about to bother me and her that she didn't want anybody wanting it autographed out of grass are any time she was there to relax and so forth.

[02:29:19]
So as though we any of us were of the type that would care. So I'm going into the Lanch with. Bitsy and Walter Cronkite and. As we get there. Here is Barbara Walters sitting over here with her little girl that travels with her and she starts to get a hand with all the fans just keep walking.

[02:29:42]
People are going to keep walking. We went on over to the other corner but I thought about that this weekend when over there when I saw that and I wasn't thrilled over what she Barbara Walters said that you know they had everybody giving testimonial to Saudi and everything.

[02:29:58]
And then when I thought he. Clearly sad I'm on camera of anyone interested in her opinion on anything I did. Yet and then end it at that. So they apparently did not get along so well but she was going to speak and I wanted to be friends. Then it was nobody.

[02:30:15]
Maybe she thought he was only worthwhile person on the Ship Island but that was so funny just keep on walking. Don't get them. People tell me the story about the astronaut. Back when my son who was about thirty which would be eighty three that fits just fan. And I had a nephew one that I just counted.

[02:30:39]
He was three months or older and Halley's Comet was coming. I was supposed to appear that summer or whenever it was. And so it was supposed to be seen in the South Pacific was a place it was going to be seen. Of the best viewing area. So calm and we took we invited Mitchell The cousin and David and then John and that.

[02:31:10]
And we flew to we arranged to be on a ship that was going to have like a haze coming though build an odyssey. And a beautiful little ship smile ship. We flew to Bangkok and spent a few days they are then flew to. Singapore and had a few days and then we got on the ship.

[02:31:33]
And we just were floating around everywhere trying to save the camp and the very thing on it. You were coming again to be OK I go to bed and say forget this. I'm not interested in that it's nothing. It's not going to be as good as a minute.

[02:31:49]
Is it. And now. OK OK We had an eye strain not with us. And I can't remember the name and neither can. David. And he had talked to us about the heavens and the you know well the just general you know he was very fit and I liked him a lot but he was not one of the three.

[02:32:15]
That were on first the on the moon but in right this was very interesting and we enjoyed it but. About took cockatoo thirty that came and knocked on my door Come on Mom the you can see that come it and then we went up and now. All of us in our pajamas and right up to the top that you have the astronaut in is why I've been all of us they were not that many on that ship it was a nothing.

[02:32:43]
It was and I'm worth it. No but I mean if you're like me that. Yeah I would not think it was yeah you could see it because they told you that see it you know all but if you had only been on your own you wouldn't you know I wouldn't know it was just the most things that you have anticipated a level that no less than when in reality.

[02:33:04]
So anyhow we came and we did have an interesting into that trip sort of. We were suppose we've been to date on the ship and went to a lot of places in there. I remember one of them was Jakarta and then. Forget that there was no bus and we had we were going to get all Zambo and go.

[02:33:31]
Now you won't you are just so you know you just. Just think you're so young. There's this is a little island in Mindanao Mindanao. At the very southern most part of the Philippines. And the little islands and the anger. We had been to once before but it that they only can.

[02:33:56]
There was a famous World War two song. That anybody. Everybody should know. How the monkeys have no tails in Zambo I guess. Exit you didn't even enter it. And you never saw him think about the monkeys the Nano details example I guess what everybody else knows because you think that we're going to go look at this point.

[02:34:20]
So do the monkeys have no tail. I don't know how they should be much use. I don't but but then you're right this is that my going to be my second trip there and it was the first one and the first time I was there was something else any had I sent a message that some tourist had slapped against a passenger you know a visitor a traveller in Zambo I guess seventeen year old boy slap and to be careful to warn the passengers and the other would two or three people and so.

[02:34:56]
The captain said. Well we don't have to go to the design Boeing go. We have an invitation to Borneo. They have opened up this National Geographic has put in an interactive ten preserve. And they will let us see some of their babies and you know you can go there and it's a better thing in the good.

[02:35:25]
OK so we went and stayed we skipped Zambo I'm going that trip. And we went to. Some by yeah believe this what the whole place was you get on now they had only seen white people once before when when now. National Geographic was working with here and so we had they had let the children.

[02:35:51]
There's only one school bus in this sort village and they let the children stay home and let us have the school bus. To go. To act to a rang to Tang preserve from the dock the children I'll stand and look in so many looking white people you know and I get them aren't they.

[02:36:09]
Funny and death. We drove in to see the Iran detains Now there's a creek. Maybe a little bit wider than this rain but not much that goes there. This sort of a hill dance to it and it goes down and sort of open a little bit and then the trees are all around.

[02:36:30]
We couldn't cross over because the you couldn't cross the creek that was the rules I guess and smart are right good tans knew that they couldn't either. They came to they edge of their water and let me do that but I was good at the edge of our water to look to do you know what you can really leverage still I absolutely had a very vivid.

[02:36:56]
So then we went back to the hill a little bit and they had the place where the rooms where the babies were the lower rank attains and they let David in and Mitchell play with that or rather damn good and I had they had that So on the way back.

[02:37:14]
There's a hut. With the with the that's true. Foul over it. OK this is a store that has everything in it from food to clothing to buildings of blather whatever they carry in this still veil in general store by General Store and John says you're not going there and I said well they said we could go early and no he says I'm not going to let you Casey through it has no light in there.

[02:37:43]
There's no telling. You'd never get you might never come out and I said you can stand here waiting with the bus on the corner but I am going in. So I did I don't think you let the boys go in though you made to go as I'm not sure but I am one hand and you know look the brand a bit and we came back.

[02:37:59]
And. Had some paintings or some for major fruit from that didn't even know what it was and they said. You certainly don't mind eat that. And I said well it's got ran down and you know it's got big and fat is going to be perfect. Now I know you're not going to mean that you're not and he said anyhow we get back to the ship and we start out and the next day.

[02:38:26]
We get a message that they're two why are. Factions in this slow and kind man. And that they had some political differences and they blew up the hood. And I said well we didn't go to that at all why going because we didn't want to get slapped. So we went to good timing is that what I think you are you know where they blow but I'll shut up.

[02:38:50]
But we were gonna love it isn't that funny and charming was not a time you know you know all my life I'll bet you can't some remarkable summaries average there and you know when I called you and said Can I come here your story so well I can't think of anything I would have to talk about **** you I knew well I don't want to go but I won't give me any lives Man Alive but it's not accurate out of magine in a body of being interested in an old lady yet and in any because you've had privilege in on usual experiences that you no one ever thought about writing a book did Johnny to write another book know what he wrote a lot of books he would ride textbooks or both.

[02:39:33]
I answered he would teach it. Casey only in law school I went down to Georgia Tech and not Georgia Tech Georgia said. You know the one here Georgia State. Ok carry poor brain to Georgia State he would teach he said to do good for a dram. For a new religion fear one new religion fear was teaching and he had.

[02:40:00]
Dimiss and then John did ride. He rode a musical play to be real and he sent it to Richard Rodgers and it was returned saying we did not open it and we did not open it because Mr Rogers does his own thing and John and I said are you going to send it in about us he said.

[02:40:20]
Certainly not. Back in there with him. Makin me think it was right. Write your target you're right you're right. Nobody else. So he let me that manuscript in his will and I saw it in their lies and that I was going through some so many wonderful memories and I do have a lot of memory and you and you came to a point where you decided the house was just a little bit too much to get on as it was just impossible.

[02:40:45]
And I was not enjoying it. It was a job work and the living room was particularly not wonderful because I actually saw him sitting there all the time it was filled with now and I didn't need it. So you sold it and moved here how long ago three years ago three years ago and he told me a lovely thing he said well I gave up the house I was very attached to.

[02:41:09]
But I got a wonderful view out of it. I do I have a head around that because I had ninety plough or don't you see actually and I have time for a better place to finish up my life and I hope this is where all finish it and I hope it's not in some closet somewhere out till my son.

[02:41:30]
But I'm you going to go broke or something and I said well if that happens. Out come down and live in your closet until she dare. I don't think that's necessary. What is he lives down in Florida. You said DAVID Yes he is a developer. And he's been partners all of that reminds me I want to talk to you about.

[02:41:52]
The Brookhaven historic preservation of conscience fact you and John took that project on. Arrived when in I don't I mean the year. I don't know then. Years ago. Well not to tell you the truth. It was not that long before dad because OK and it was probably in the eighty's the YAML year.

[02:42:15]
Yes When he had retired so it was during that period. It was a tremendous job. We just decided that they were entitled that that was a place that really needed to be historically listed with the starkest son and he spent many many many hours down at the court house tracing back titles to see who had lived in these ads and how long they have been occupied by the same person or what you hear.

[02:42:44]
And that's Pakistan pushing the history you know the neighborhood as a neighborhood one of the Got it. We registered that we did it. How many houses all together three hundred something but I can remember it like telling your dad to to have you know act talk to every single house owner.

[02:43:00]
He did it he didn't have to talk to them. He didn't answer is yes then he does not work and I did team you two were and so we did and then but the kind of the neighborhood association was not thrilled about it. Some people said well because and so the park had to pay fifty thousand dollars to their lawyer for doing that in.

[02:43:24]
Maybe they thought that if they acknowledged John doing all that work that they he'd send them a bill I said no we never would have done that we did it. You did it because you like as we wanted to and I do. The reason I know when it was a couple of years later it might have been after new prison and something came in those associations.

[02:43:44]
I had some beautiful letters. And one of them. And I said I would like to be told the publisher of the year book or whatever they put at your book I suppose. The Register residence. I said I'd like to thank them for having written. You know the letters and you know and I remember I put it in there an appreciative.

[02:44:11]
They're acknowledging what John had done and have much work he put in it and that my only regret was that he didn't live long enough to see that to get that realization and to that I could see the recognition. It is himself marvelous area and not actually a lot of that that the woman who was in charge of ANA at the Cotton States exposition went to Atlanta and was working on it you know to to to earn the right to have thinks expositional.

[02:44:41]
That though some of those homes out there were so much a part of what was going on some of those women that took that role were were living out there at that time so that it is a lovely old neighborhood. It's a I chose it because it's not.

[02:44:57]
I felt it wasn't pretentious it was not at that it's a good neighborhood to live in it. That it was just what I wanted then and the the people were nice. Well it's a wonderful thing that he did for the community and you're right a lot a lot of developers are not happy about that because it means they can't just do it and want to do what they want and I got time the story about the developer that wanted to build on the corner.

[02:45:27]
Hiring hall. Well I wish I could remember it's better. We don't remember him right then I think right now. He bought up the property and several houses. At the corner of Peachtree and one of the streets there and he wanted to run his claim was to put it high rise or at least a few stores.

[02:45:51]
Of. A building and. We had defied him by saying. You know you cannot do that because this is historical property and to there's nothing in there that tells you what you can build you can build if you own the property you can put what you want to know you can ANY had ended up the IT and I got upset and just said you know.

[02:46:24]
You can do whatever you want to do then. And if you have shade falling over the houses. Diane that end of the block. You'll have to get rid of that much of your head you're building. So that the shade did hit the Historical Society. And I'm pretty and he didn't do it.

[02:46:46]
He still came back he gave it up and good and because you get that little little of text that was in the covenant for the year a little brighter that they couldn't. You can infringe on the people within the estate and then they have you know everything is a McMansion and now it is but it's still a nice area and we don't have the their apartment sound Peachtree their apartments on the street Dunwoody.

[02:47:18]
And all that but in that one little area. It's still domain this historical write history. Well it's been quite a ride that he but you have had a remarkable life have you not Joe I did you even know it wasn't the easiest of beginnings. But maybe it helped to form who you became well I have friends all over the world.

[02:47:44]
I and Jan They mean a lot to me they would once said. You're not how much longer than I have to keep up with all your friends and I said. My friends are all over the world there are people I travel with and I act and that's true.

[02:48:00]
I mean how old are the Earl kind of up with people. I'm keeping up with then we get together. You know they'll say that my eighty eight I was frequently will be on the ship at the same time and and it's like well it's like a second home for you because getting out of there.

[02:48:17]
You feel comfortable there. And then John takes a hundred percent OK we know now as yeah sure he does and you were a handful for him from the get go. Well I'm never I never knew it. You loved every minute he loved every minute of it. I mean your it turns out it worked.

[02:48:34]
It was banned because his life would have been much less adventurous without you. Yes it was because a man is never going to get out and go and do anything I was you know. Yeah so you were at that and I did and I could and he could blame everything on me and he could get through the at one time we were going on a ship and we I He always wanted to cabins with the door between.

[02:48:59]
Because he wanted to be able to go to sleep or wrist when he wanted to end your life is owned by a three. And one ship didn't have one available and they called and said But we have it was the how an American or Rotterdam which was their main ship and he came back with that and said Our Queen suite.

[02:49:22]
Queen is not going to be on while you're on there and we decided we'd let you have that suite. And now if you'll come out and he was going to talk or do something and so he said will send me a diagram of what the suite consists of and I said Well our queen his entertaining the Reagans and everybody and his suits are I'm sure it'll suit Mrs Brennan and he and he would be a man and John says Not necessarily but.

[02:49:57]
He did it was that made it all. I mean I. I look at Fred I was all bad. You know he knew what he wanted and then. It's exactly you said Sure it'll soon it was Brandy's in that they're like. How much fun you had that have a good life.

[02:50:13]
Yeah you have to complain. Well thank you so much for taking the time today. We've been this way it is a lot of fun having them is really nice of you to do all this and so I'm going to get a copy of the course you are writing and then we're just real pleased that you could find time for us that you weren't off on the high seas somewhere and and it's been such a pleasure.

[02:50:36]
Just a real thrill to be you Ira. I just think if it hadn't been for my nephew art. We wouldn't even know I was like Thank you Art wherever you are you. You are a poster child for growing old gracefully and you say you in it ain't over.

[02:50:51]
No no no never know what it say that is there you will. You're very welcome.