[00:00:16]
>> This is a living history interview with J.D. Walton class of 1950 conducted by Marilyn summers on November the 15th the year 2010 we are at his home in Atlanta Georgia and such got the interview today his life in general his experiences at Georgia Tech J.D. Walton is a pleasure to be here with you sir and thank you for seeing us on a rainy day in Georgia it's a pleasure sir and I told you I want to start with the very beginning so tell me where you were born and when I was born in Nashville and told Caroline and that was to have the 23rd 125 and what were your mom and dad doing in Asheville at that time they had was a manager with on the pickup Korea and ice for them.

[00:01:06]
And then. When I was. About 34 years old we moved to Atlanta where he was assistant manager for a year I guess. In that newly opened innocent of the and it will have an OK but in 1925 he had taken this job and that's where he in your Mom just happened to be and that was this is whole place was he born in Nashville he was born in but we're going to North Carolina and not too far from my father so North Carolina was home place right tell me a little bit if you can about your father's parents did you ever know your paternal grandfather.

[00:01:46]
My father's father was. Quite a bit older than he was I think born in 850 and say dad you know I think I feel before I was born so you never knew you and you're not going to bother but I know I knew my grandmother there what did you call her.

[00:02:11]
I can't remember right now so her not too often she was not a big part of your life growing up no I asked because sometimes people have affectionate names for grandparents rather than just grandmother or grandfather so you've got your dad's parents were really not big part of your life right well he was the youngest your dentist ever been married 66 children is it possible that your grandfather was involved in the war that you know in the military anyway no OK But you know he was gone long before you came I mean who's And what about your mother where was she from originally that she with from.

[00:02:52]
Well I think they call it happy family but it was near Boone North Carolina so again North Carolina went home place for a little bit farther north so Boone and how about her parents did you get to know those friends there yes very well OK you knew them well what did you call them when my grandmother would called Nana and you know my grandfather would call possible or the special name so that's right yeah this went off and they were around when you were a girl you know well they were around Statesville North Carolina is a hidden booth to Finchley to states that all my mother pretty well grew up there she was the oldest of her family she was the oldest Your father was yes so and were you the oldest in your family were you their child OK You were the 1st job so the young couple is moved to Asheville where neither of them were born but they moved there so for work yes and do you know how your dad happened to get into the food business or more of a manager business when.

[00:03:57]
He was more of a manager but his real interest was outdoors work primarily so. He had a short time when he was with the construct. Of some of the highways in North Carolina and North east part of the state on both west around so it is so he didn't have that kind of experience you know he may have taken his job with S.W. because in a family to support it's a way of having something I have right now what do you remember about your mother's father your grandfather Well how did or what was he that he was in the publishing business he was an editor for the local paper There was a yeah and that's one month and he was.

[00:04:50]
Obviously been to paper business he had a typewriter and sure I messed things up period I think this is typewriter so he let you go into the. Well no this was at home at home no no I don't think he was a storyteller. Not really he was a writer not a story and he he loved.

[00:05:12]
Education and in fact he had taught in a small school in I guess it was the globe in North Carolina. Greek he had taught such and he had an ambition to read the Bible in the original Greek after he retired one unfortunately his eyesight failed towards the end so he was never able to do that but he let everyone know he would like to know you as you know that now yes so he was very much an academician Yes very scholarly if he could read really.

[00:05:50]
How that's pretty interesting so he must have gone to college in South yes where did he go to college I don't remember that would be a good thing to look into it with well this is on the modern right and what about the man what was she like well she was.

[00:06:07]
Perfect Home keeper and gardener and that sort of thing the heart of the family and you know at that time when I was very young they were still you know cooking on what so and so if any memory of that recently I had the is the memory of their doing that and getting the wood for the you know I don't know where they were in Georgia so shall we ask you what is your earliest memory can you remember things from when you lived in Asheville.

[00:06:40]
Not really really. I remember. They lived in the home for a friend he was older and. I remember it was interesting he would feed the squirrels that would come up to the house and so I have memories of the squirrels coming up on fortune and you were just just and you know that is a good memory as well it may have been when I would go back to.

[00:07:13]
You know to visit Now how often were you allowed to do that once you moved to Atlanta they were you know pretty much that way then yeah our. Dad you know really enjoyed getting back to the mountains and that sort of thing so so we go back because we want to hear or maybe more than that did they ever send you there for vacation No you never went by yourself.

[00:07:40]
So you moved to Atlanta when you were 4 years old you think moving past that time OK moving to Atlanta 929 then that that was OK in early 1929 but then the depression and that was a big deal did your father keep his job during Yeah I was in fact.

[00:07:57]
The food business apparently you know very well because I was never a waiter you know money problems. I think we're still pretty young yes where my name is right do you remember where the family moved to in Atlanta where did you live as well we'll move just. Well as I can remember that picture in your having your.

[00:08:23]
They became members of Druid Hills Baptist Church at that time and couple of years later then they know bought a home still in that area. On noble try. And I was there really began your elementary school well actually up again no nearer to pertain haven't you saying we like him and I think was the name of the school but I was only there.

[00:08:55]
Half are here in kindergarten. And then that you can remember that I remember that again and then after we moved to noble trial then I went to. Morningside Elementary School and those schools of course are still live here just and then I went to O'Keefe after that which is now connected with tech you're way ahead of the game you know so much about that just slow down there I want to know where was S. and W. When I went to a restaurant your dad worked at it was all Peachtree Street and it was across from what was then Davis impacts and so downtown right.

[00:09:39]
So did you ever used to go there when you were little boy you know we know. They've served one of their big bigger meals was Thanksgiving when. And so we go there for Thanksgiving meal and it was there in the cafeteria Sir John thanks giving him so everybody went there so you remember going there you know and it would be crowded Well we had people going out instead of staying home and doing what we think of as the traditional family home and there were a lot of people you know traveling or whatever.

[00:10:14]
So they were always had a big day for Thanksgiving and I would think that being right downtown and your dad probably were crazy hours he probably had to be there almost all that well he would share that early this morning with this. Because very shortly after he came they became the manager so he had the assistant manager.

[00:10:42]
But they have to work on holidays and weekends and I mean it's kind of just open all the time myself so it did you get to see a lot of your dad anyway even though he worked those hours the way they had it set up most of the morning that you open up and get started you're also like 2 o'clock in the afternoon so when you came up from school he was there and you know he would be there every other day so it's always a alternated And then if you came in late late or hours I guess 10 o'clock or something you closed at night so you actually saw your dad is I mean did you ever have any brothers and sisters I had one sister but and still have and she was 12 years younger.

[00:11:30]
In other words about attorney you were more or less an only child negative early 12 years and that was your high school before she had gotten so there you were the only child you spoiled Probably but I don't. Think they had didn't really let you get spoiled. Did he give you chores to do.

[00:11:51]
Really I mean I know there were things you know I had to do but. You know on a regular basis. And what about your mom was she was to housework and you were only boys. So she stayed right on top of you. And when you went off to 1st grade do you remember that experience of being in the elementary school fairly well probably a little bit it was.

[00:12:20]
Probably more like when I was. What I have been here for I can OK he said some people can actually remember their teacher's name from that time period I remember I think great teacher. His character said so but that. Mr Pelz I think was the principal something good for you for remembering that they're all long gone when nice to give them credit and you know that was back in the day when they were teachers who really really really that was their whole life that was that it would make sure that people like you.

[00:12:58]
Knew exactly what they wanted you to know right and literally get your attention and make you learn Did they call you Jerry do you never did that cause I'm sure it was Jesse at that time at that time you were just. And were you a good student. There to hide did you like going to school pretty much in the course.

[00:13:20]
I was talented art was you know that way of course I was taught how to be of course tell me when did you start knowing you had some talent without well mother was. An artist but. You know. That's something she'd like to do she did take some hard but so is naturally already did she draw or paint what she says some of.

[00:13:47]
She did quite a bit in the oil but also in what they call temper I think what it was you know like a Korean Right I mean like Cho and she was very good in both of those what did she what were her subjects did you deport everything she did portrait portraits of dead and several others so you grew up seeing her work with him.

[00:14:14]
And so you you followed her for them yeah and it was it was good in grammar school because for how I mean that you get out of other classes and some because they had some projects you could work on because that was back when Art was part of the correct you know art music that I was very much a part and I think you know.

[00:14:35]
Something that we don't have as much as you know so your natural talents came out to you for a project. Well that's pretty good interesting way to not going to tell me that I'm glad I found that out so well when you got to remember that. Till I got to grammar school so that's where you really shone was in your art class and you know that's great that's a good memory to have if not you are living a noble drive which would be close to.

[00:15:01]
More closer over to Morningside you said Go is in that area also where would you go with your mom like to go grocery shopping or to the drug store some I said where was the community that was in the Highland right down an area near Highland Marion and so grocery store would it be the Piggly Wiggly that was down in there or wet what what if it had been anyone I guess I can only remember something sometimes people remember you know going to the store because it was such a different world you know and did your mother have a car during the day yes she had her car you bought a car too.

[00:15:37]
So you were relatively prosperous considering the bad times in writing that your car so you were used to getting driven somewhere even have to walk all the time. To screw up and we were close enough to school like this happen by yourself are you going to tell me you walked in the snow with their fat my phone and it's like if it writing was worth a commission because you thought so and we did you were one of the lucky yeah you just have to slog through it and that's right.

[00:16:08]
This is that an elementary school that goes up to like 63 it did then and then what did you do then you transfer to a middle school they call it Junior High OK what with that and that was 3 years and then high school was 3 or 4 K. where was the junior high you would go to it was basically where Georgia Tech.

[00:16:28]
So it was OK if that was a middle school then our junior high so that you know it changed its name it's just that it's over and we have to clarify it in now wasn't that a pretty good distance for you know in those days. But I took the bus in fact.

[00:16:46]
I guess students get what they call it but they had a token I think it was 5 cents or something but that you could use some students could you get what your parents bought these tokens for you and you just cut the public transportation and where would you catch the bus Well the bus was at the bottom of the hill that we live in St We lived on Noble fact I think that is still a noble there is bus and had I guess the end of that line is still about 2 houses from where we live it and so you go it was up to you to judge the bus and the game just off to school with their neighborhood just that we're doing that with you yeah I don't remember too many and we picked up kids.

[00:17:30]
And then there was a street car somewhere in there and then we would transfer to another bus you're kidding me you had to transfer twice. That's good but was as bad as walk in the snow by now. You know that Mr connection Yeah well you could hear that a routine thing and then.

[00:17:52]
That bus that we talk about called. We got off it the Biltmore Hotel. On boys Peachtree and then you know all the rest and well rest that way or that's got to be 2 blocks at least maybe 3 Well it was it was kind of scary in a way because it was a.

[00:18:14]
An area not really inhabited there weren't houses there's a well that was like the expressway went through. So it was a. Rough area yeah very sick street in that area and it was just an open field basically between Lordy lordy that's it such as drop you off the lot you walk away now to go onto buses and a trolley to get to work school must take a lot of time you have to leave her yearly up there I don't know that was so much a part of what you were doing so well and I said My goodness roasting you out at the crack of dawn MY expect a lot from and they would never later like that happen to the.

[00:19:01]
Fact that a lot of it was screwed up US citizen somebody just our body got there the best thing then and then what was the chief like compared to the school you had been well of course it was. Broken down into classes and subjects and things like that which I don't remember really much of that in grammar school but usually in middle school boys started involved in sport and more music than something like that which way did you gravitate Well I still did art but it was.

[00:19:35]
Well dad was very much a handyman being an outdoorsman and so I had picked up a lot of things from him and then we had things like electric shop and. Getting the folk a Chanel dry as well as Mum right there and on T.V. And so I enjoyed you know all of those things that had to do with print shop where you learn to sit.

[00:20:01]
Type in that sort of thing that a print shop Wow I don't press it was a pretty big school well it was we think of it now as not being that big of a building compared to the rest of test but it was a pretty good sized demyelination.

[00:20:16]
Going up and down stairs in the. Gym with memories of that time who do. I can't remember. So I guess one of the biggest. The excitement around there was when you called with the wind came to Atlanta yeah I remember that magnetized the whole city and I saw you heard all about it before hand and didn't know much about it but what you heard about it and it was you know the cafeteria was decorated and posters and things like the reality so you get to take part in some of that Wheldon No but I did get to go I guess once or twice to the restroom to the cafeteria and of course they were you know signed enough you have to remember that it was happening yeah you know what in 193939 yeah and they had this big parade the newspapers and there were more people to praise and lived in the city probably so.

[00:21:18]
Maybe your folks went to the parade you don't remember going to the very no other movie stars on the Hill and the excitement did you get to go to the movie theater to see it you know said to him it did he went below so yeah you know wow you're one of the few things that I know that got to do that was a big deal wasn't it it was and I guess so but you know they had working downtown and the business community and so on had you know some perks and he had won tickets for it and so on plus he was just good business I mean you know from our people and so he stayed in the restaurant business that you know I'll tell you the return I mean it would have been what about 14 years old you know that so a teenager probably able to go downtown on a bus same time you felt like you know pretty much because you were your own man and you to hang out with a bunch of guys that did that going to go down the library and Saturn it well I don't remember the library thing I do remember going to the library periodic leap but it was in the.

[00:22:21]
Major thing is what would have been the things that you boys would have entertained yourself with when you were a teenager. Well going to the movie of course was a big deal when they were holding down town and so you went on the bottom and the trolley or whatever to get to downtown right Aleksey lows in the reality show well there was the.

[00:22:45]
I can't remember the one there were 2 very close to the lows and then as you went up the street there were a couple in the other side the capital and Roxy or something so there were like 5 theaters within 2 blocks so just imagine having to leave your district.

[00:23:07]
Did you get to go to the 5. South African Yeah sometimes you would get to mine in fact it was. It was kind of a fun place to go to. Because there were exits. In the balcony area where you go in and. Get up from the top area where they have posed a little bit that sort of thing make it look like I'm of the man who could do was to make it would be an adventure to explore when he had just made it 6 the door so you could get back to.

[00:23:43]
Do that while you're watching the movie we probably had seen it once it was paid to get a movie and then had a new venture out of the thing and they had professional ushers back in those days that would keep an eye out for all of it well not so much that well I think a lot of time saved me joy the movie but I sat down and watched the movie and I don't know for they really should teenagers around and not what what what kind of movies and was it the kind of thing I hear about almost Saturday and seeing.

[00:24:14]
There you know I think there was either the capital with Roxy the it had to go west or. You know what's the series where they were Saturday and of course 2 you'd always complain. About the way it ended last time the way it started to live they did match better than for you guys Well there were you know you'd see the hero going over a cliff.

[00:24:39]
You know in this buggy. And then next time he jumped up before going over that well it's not fair. They've made it their own way but you were all keeping track and then I waited I was I mean and it was cheap and it was she said her name that right you know it watches at least once I mean sometime it's a whole Saturday afternoon you can stay and see it again and they showed Movietone News Yes our news reels about what was going on in the war and the war in the world and now you know by the time you were in high school you went to boy I was on you right by the time you went to high school your little sister was born.

[00:25:20]
All right so you had your little sister come alive. What did you think of that heaviest sister when you were already well if you were a big brother obviously and it was exciting for the police to have the baby what did did your mom name or well Ellen her.

[00:25:37]
Was her name Eleanor. Eleanor Steele because her mother's name was Steele before being. How did you get the middle name I didn't ask yet it to start I know we didn't know because you know what we find any family there were at least in looking back through some of the names since the.

[00:26:03]
Jane you know if you kind of there were at least 3 or 4 to Lafayette so it was a family tradition to carry Well I think it came from the Revolutionary War and then expand in the country that line yeah and. Unless it was such a major figure I think you're in the war and I think you know they just wanted to use that name I guess like way back it started as a tribute Yeah many fights within the family carried in I mean you got it you know and you know but there were a lot of Lafayette's that I don't know exactly how I'm sure they didn't understand French they just otherwise so would in fact I got something you know at Georgia Tech.

[00:26:50]
That had the name written as small to the left and you know what he said the only way I've seen it written properly. Now. Is all due course you got through the middle school and the next move is to go on to high school and there were 2 high schools at that time that most kids went to their boys higher tech but there were 3 as well and then there were lots and there was none and Russell and others right out of your choice for you to live through it would have been that choice yet and those 2 were and how did you make that choice.

[00:27:26]
Because most everybody else went to boys from the area you know that we lived in at that time and that if another stand that the boys had was more preparing for college than tech time was preparing for a vocation was that a consideration for you. I mean did you think you were going to go to college.

[00:27:46]
I was pretty sure I was going to go to college and I had a really because. The love of the outdoors in fact when I was in high school I was even trapping. In our neighborhood. So I mostly muskrat but I just love the outdoors and that was with that but that would make it look college No but I was planning to go to Georgia.

[00:28:17]
And probably going to forestry or wanted to be a forest ranger on no one but they were your parents encouraging you to think about if you were in high school I think it was probably sort of expected OK. It was a family morning they were going to have you know that was it you know and your grandfather was he still around your mom's father yeah he wanted more and he was still around they would have wanted you to go to college they know that all of those things were in the background just like their influence but you know what it is you know keep up with your studies because if you want to go to college or something you know it was boring assume you for sure but you're going to go so you better keep up with yours I am so once you got into Boys High tell me what that experience was like what you did you went to a boy's high it must have been 41 yes it's the war was already a No Should it started it was well you didn't start it over in Europe we were you know we had corporal harbor years but you were probably aware were you that there was a were going on somewhere you know Newt you knew that but you wouldn't know it from going to the movies because it was your in the movie you know but it was.

[00:29:38]
You know there was a lot of isolationism at that time and it was almost like that's somebody else's business that was happening somewhere that well it wasn't necessarily happening they I guess they thought back to World War One and they thought you know that them had what. That's what the general population was making that's not what the politicians I don't know.

[00:30:00]
So you look at you and your boys high which is a whole different kind of school on penalties and. And how how was your just said in 2 ways why. Did you enjoy it yeah it was a lot more you know. Open to a lot more activity going on there I understand they had fraternities and sororities I think they did maybe a couple of which didn't who we were in different time.

[00:30:32]
But there was this is where you're thrown into you know the big boys world. Whole lot more and they had fun sports and you know I often thought. Thinking back about it that they had probably the best way to breaking each in school in other words having 3 in middle school or junior.

[00:30:59]
There was a lot of calling beginning to grow in that time and separating that from older so you felt that was a good way to do it the looking back on it. And in fact over the time you got in there you were ready to settle in you know more mature well more or less but also that there in that big.

[00:31:21]
Age. Disparity that you'd see so you you know there's not as much. Of the older ones either taking advantage of younger ones or younger ones. The last thing the older ones and I felt like that was a good fit for a professor they were more professors and yes many of the males you know which of course you didn't have so much of in elementary school right about O'Keefe were they a lot of male teachers or to both I think all the shops where were my home and so you were getting a transition in remember kind of the real learning.

[00:32:02]
And were you well prepared for boys' high they had high academics and yeah I think that's been so and I don't remember anything relating to you know in trips or anything like that I mean I think about it right away from O'Keefe wanted to go to boys hunted I'm sure there was a some sort of an area.

[00:32:23]
That most people from a certain area. Just naturally went to boys I. Jus graphic area and a. I'm going to 2 schools are very close and they're right next door to each other well we shared maybe on yet and then for boys I don't remember about tech. Because the only time we ever really saw each other and those were in the main building were pretty much the academic.

[00:32:52]
Class lasses now and the vocational classes were more on the tech side now they had they had good football games saying you know Haines a good baseball team but it school was separate you know they didn't have to say it is all play together. It's just the opposite I'm under the impression that they were you know fairly good competitive teams that there was a lot of school rivalry you know there was so did you get caught up in all of that well you know you always you know you were 4 boys and you hated take that step.

[00:33:27]
They were there training for the other end yeah yeah and you mentioned that you liked the outdoors as your father taught you about trapping you know so I picked that up as a way to you know be outside into things and of course it was it was enough Roy area around it yeah and it was it was good and you could make a few dollars a piece so whatever I guess the scans to serious.

[00:33:57]
They were right there in that so might as well you may have them you know look I don't know well I guess I just dry him out then yeah you have to skin a woman in drag him out and chances are kind of that well that was sort of natural because they had you know we shoot squirrels rabbits things like that of course he.

[00:34:18]
Has been hunting was like for deer and that was up in North Carolina and physical National Forest to do Africa with no and that was that was a lottery. They allowed so many people to hunt deer they had a deer hunting season and they had was fortunate and I don't know whether there were any politics or not but he'd be on the way and he would get drawn take it down and then probably this time of the year in November you know the remedy simper and so when you know we talk about how they buy the stuff to go deer hunting Well you could only be by yourself because it was an individual draw on the lottery but I met the family didn't go so you would you come home with tears.

[00:35:08]
Most times most times and do you remember eating it yeah I cooked it and in fact I had one on. One of the. 4 was that I knew what all the way through we went through the morning so I had no peace and well I sighed and he remembered the time.

[00:35:29]
That dad had made. Business and sandwiches and I took him to morning so I had a class and he remembered how everybody said this man was such he never had venison There's an article talking it so your mother must master and you know yeah well dad there was a cook you know cook it and whenever we go you know when fishing or somewhere like that and be there to 3 tell you to tell it you know what ways but what he wanted to cook which was good you have happy memories of you that you were in good bunny Yeah you did a lot of good things with you did you ever get involved in Boy Scouts Yeah.

[00:36:14]
Yeah I went through life and never got that your life sort of began to lose interest. As it happens as you get older but you did go through a lot and did your data with you through all of that stuff not really that much but. Not enough people talk about their cub scout leader and even the I mean your Boy Scout leader as somebody who was influential right.

[00:36:42]
And looked at the case for you well. Yes no I guess I made an. Outdoor activities you were happy to do that and I was what did you get to go to Boy Scout camp did a couple good tatic Burdett for Daddums right out of the big time and but it was way out so.

[00:37:07]
You know. I thought it was way out in the country what it was that far. But if you were city boy there was an opportunity to so you went for overnight camping there well you know you went for I guess they had one period set up a week so whatever so well that's where you go for 2 weeks yeah that's where you get your merit badges because they have all of that set up in the hope of outdoor stuff as well as I did You are quite a few where you know what to do in there somewhere or maybe.

[00:37:44]
Every one of them is a happy memory no doubt you know you have a sash and then President time you get into boys your big time you're not doing what it's got stuff like that anymore what I said for the track. Trapping if you were doing now you're on not to waste and who would know that I mean that's a source of revenue you mean Well it was mainly a source of getting you know did you ever have any jobs while you were in high school if your parents ever say you need to go work at the grocery store you know paper out.

[00:38:18]
Well ahead back in those days selling Saturday Evening Post was. What most people do it for a while so when that like you had a route you mean later on in you you had the magazines to sell I don't remember the T.V. they think it's subscriptions to I had the video magazines so as near as I can remember we they we give you so many sell and you went out to peddle them don't you know Aren't you the really sort of like Girl Scout cookies and yeah and there they were Yeah that's interesting that was a big deal magazine back in the people depend on so you get a little bit of money from the and that would teach you how to manage money and then you had to pay for your own trips into town.

[00:39:07]
How would you best describe your high school your 3 years that boy's house to. A very mature and period in fact. Not to get hit too much but I think the same thing with the military in fact I often felt looking at what I definitely. Felt while you were boys how you when you look back at that time you realize you're taking more responsibility being more dependable did you start dating girls in high school so yeah I mean they didn't have them as school dances they're big time dances I understand well I'm not sure I can remember exactly where they were I mean most kids learned how to dance Yeah well you know some where in that time between people and boys I guess I took some dancing lessons so that was part of the deal you know they're going to dance you know anywhere do you remember December to 741 What is your memory of.

[00:40:16]
Sort of wondering where Pearl Harbor is where 300 and I don't know I never heard up and but everybody pretty well knew it was that afternoon that Sunday afternoon. Because it you realize that that was going to directly affect your life not really your school you were close to that one I think the adults.

[00:40:40]
I'm sure they didn't realize I'm sure they didn't and you mentioned to me we were talking earlier that Clint Castleberry was that we're pursuing with you did you ever get to know him or not when not personally I mean that you weren't even aware of him well over there but I was aware of him because he was quite a for some of the boys had put up with me and I understand he was even a better baseball player than he was the football there may have been I didn't realize.

[00:41:13]
So but you were aware that he was an athlete and I thought yeah I think he was maybe a created ahead of me at the time and I remember one time he and some friends came to our church and I got to sort of meet him there. You sort of surprised he's not a big person.

[00:41:36]
But really he wasn't they can ask you know he was fast and he could you know he was a force on the team because people couldn't catch him. At least one of the so it was the speed that made you know speed and agility and John because he could just you know move all around people or I don't know why I never thought about the pictures but I always thought he was probably a big dude is saying when in fact.

[00:42:09]
It was sort of a tradition that. As people moved on into college. That Babbitt I've used a lot of small people and he stated you know rather have a fast small person and slow big person. When did you know you were going to go to Georgia Tech. After the war.

[00:42:35]
Well I pretty well knew. You were going to go to college 1st you thought U.G.A. you know before the war or before had got involved in the war. So you know you did have a big change things really did change your mindset was when you got out of boys high was in 1943 and your thought was Well if I don't go in the war I'll go right now to U.G.A. Why did you go in the war what was going on I didn't want to be to have to leave enlisted and you chose what branch of the Navy that your thought was and sort of being in a foxhole so I think the adults torture that normal not really know them and I've heard before that adults I would like and I guess I had a vision to maybe getting in the Air Force and I had course I had and it was always been interested in flying.

[00:43:27]
You never mentioned that before so well it was always your interest but just excitement I guess that and did you make model airplanes and also you did do the time and so you typically thought you could fly places that well you know in fact there was a. Civil Air similar for trouble c.a.p and showing that that's a big deal James Dean Well it is it was much more than studying at the time I mean what were they were teaching you about one plane from another and well mainly how to navigate or how to you know things that you learn.

[00:44:10]
Basically and books about flying and you had some of that in high school. I think that everybody choice is similar but you know I mean you have regular meetings then you got maps and you learn how to write in a fireplace engine wasn't the whole idea of Yes father yes they yes it never happened so yeah but I said Yes You were those 16 year old Casey and I don't know yeah it could've happened so that was part of your growing up times it so as you approach graduation you start Air Corps.

[00:44:47]
Well. The Navy has it in their court. And. I just kind of like the Navy you know my eyesight was a problem. There were a lot of us at that age. Thinking about you know what may happen. That wanted to improve their facial invasion was one of the main criteria for right.

[00:45:16]
And you know taken care to listen to and what they're going to try to save yourself up to get ready for and well pass the test and I knew by that time that. I would be portals. Even if I got in so I would rather be in the Navy under those circumstances to remember going down to enlist you know in fact it was my 1st day because I didn't want to take the chances of anything happening before that so you went right when you eternity.

[00:45:54]
So if you remember I guess dad probably did that you know you knew you were going to do that yeah they had and they had. One of them they had but. Well it was a business friend as well as just a friend. That was a Reserve commander in the Navy in fact he would take Georgia Tech.

[00:46:24]
Davey all rock to see hoops actually get out. On the they could share it for a week or something like that only one thing. And. I can't remember his other name but the commander. You know did he just like money OK And so he encouraged to join the Navy while it was you know someone you knew yeah he was in the Navy and I thought that with the could you know Harris recognized that it was going to have to happen you know either be drafted or I guess Yeah so where did you go I mean was a downtown Atlanta somewhere else or existed you know they had.

[00:47:12]
A med surg the how they were set up because but there was a place where you to stand up for the Navy or for I guess it was the same place for the other 2 but I'm not sure I just remember you know signing up and then he got on the but I soon.

[00:47:31]
I guess most people if somebody went down to Pensacola that's where were you when you signed up and went right away I think I went that day really yes wow and stead of having time just so when you went down there that was made in your days as that was that you had a little the little diddy bag this year you know I don't remember you had a suitcase put whatever you signed you up and you know you went I imagine there were plenty of things in the newspaper about it and they recruited.

[00:48:02]
To serve your country patriotism was running really by that time and we were well well into the war and you know they were looking for people that rightly so the advice was don't go to college just go writing is this not in the way. You. Have to them explain you then are more important about being able to go to college in Georgia take kind of a 12 program you have the you didn't you chose not to do any of the well I took Remember taken to test.

[00:48:35]
But didn't make that whatever it was it was required and so and so when you know there's always a possibility you go to college. Is there is a military yes a century and so on during that you you got taken that day. Do you remember where you went yeah Pensacola you got sent out of my skull as well by bus we're on the way down through South Georgia Yeah.

[00:49:05]
There you are so pretty exciting experience Post story to weather the weather is the other guys from Boy I wish I could tell you know they don't remember so you were cut off and on your own. And you went through the basic event they had a fairly short training period.

[00:49:27]
The other regular navy bases this was a naval air base and I don't know whether it was to set to get people through the system faster but it was just short but it can and I think it may have been something like 6 weeks I can't remember if you went up to Great Lakes or somewhere it was at least twice that long so they were really meant just turning them out Well also if you're going to the Great Lakes I think you're going to be on a ship and you've got to learn a lot more.

[00:50:04]
Than he would what did you learn you learn how to get up early Your 1st of all you did a whole other. Physical Training and then as you just tested them to find out which way you had a certain there were you know aptitude test I don't remember much about them I think they more or less sorting by.

[00:50:27]
I think just what they needed. And it went to Radio School. From that but there was sort of what did time in between. Where was the radio school help Jacksonville So you were 10 schools 6 weeks well and then there was a period of waiting in to get sent home in your uniform survey could see you I think they you had only 3 day.

[00:50:57]
Passes and then you get back and you were on hold and so you were just doing things there. And of course they were playing and that was the place had water be. Several of us can't remember too much of the other but I was assigned to the flight line and so we could out in the morning and start to play and get a letter read it for the people who were training right it was an advanced training so they already knew you have.

[00:51:32]
So they were in some sort of for advantage so you were doing the grunt work to get ready for everybody else and I did you know by that time that your eyes were going to keep you from being a pilot no yes still has a flight in fact they do some testing later at Radio screw.

[00:51:51]
Me eyes were good enough for that. So do you remember going to Jacksonville. And what were your trade with their higher operate radios Yes Well. You know the building radio but you're going to great if you're going to fly a face a quick and you're going to peak the communication between the plane and the ground whatever.

[00:52:19]
It was most of it most of the flying was flying but the pilot who's. A diaper on the pilot. Torpedoed the pilot or. The see what the others are just plain support fighter pilot so you are to being assigned you know you're going to fly you just might not be the pilot right now but you wouldn't be you know it was aviation school but it was Navy aviation Well it was it was Naval Air Station Jacksonville but what you're going to do is stop right the radio and so there's an intensity part of learning how to communicate with morse code because that's the only way you can communicate right.

[00:53:10]
You're usually. I don't know the details of a cause and everyone on the flying that way but. I would imagine with morse code. You would be communicating in a way to say that it is you know no discernible on both hands you know what he had but it's all they don't know and it's also coded yet so that if they intercepted anything don't know the code whereas if you communicate by force that's mighty which it seems How long were you in that.

[00:53:47]
I don't remember exactly but I was like 6 or 10 weeks or months more maybe a couple of months and then one day well instead of getting a flight which was I have to keep going there they took the 3 top in the class and they became instructors which was that.

[00:54:08]
Not my desire but. It I enjoyed it so you became an instructor so using go anywhere is right there Jack right and then what were you instructing. Morse code. If you were going to pass on your new colleagues yes to the next move the next group that would become the end run and you were a little disappointed well just point not fly that was the whole idea yeah yeah.

[00:54:37]
But I don't know what are you had is an important task well I enjoyed doing it and so of course I put in for transfer you know not too long after that. Hoping to get into action there something you know where you're doing something but but even that was.

[00:54:58]
What I wanted. To Patuxent River Maryland The funny thing about the military didn't care all that much. But I. Had a great experience a tux remember. That it was. The Texan Navy. Test sooner than A.T.C. I think it took a lot of experimental planes. You got to see things you would have known here you know they had I guess.

[00:55:34]
A fighter plenty to whatever from you know just your very area. Action So there you go you were in the catbird seat just. Fine. But we think back to that time I mean you were in an exciting place but you weren't real happy with what you were doing so you were observing and tell me what came next up in Maryland Well I was signed to the communications.

[00:56:10]
Department of division of which at the time was just basically. Teletype sort of thing where again just like sending telegrams it's up. To the what General office and worked in the office. There was in the woods talks in reverse is very wooded area in Maryland and. Which was kind of good for yeah a very good economic dollars And so when.

[00:56:43]
It was almost an 85 kind of job and when I get all thoughts were. I would be and what not and. Enjoyed that very much so is what it is to get out and feel like you're somewhere else there was a commander who was 2nd in command of the communications that Patuxent River or at least the Navy part of.

[00:57:16]
The airport and he approached me one day and he said. I notice how you enjoy the outdoors and you will Boy Scout that sort of thing about it he said I've got 2 young sons. I think at that time that was 5 and 8. When he said I do have some traveling responsibilities and I'd like for him to you know have a big old companion.

[00:57:50]
That kind of it be a older brother for the kids and would you like to come and live with us in the not too far off the base and of course he was driving in every morning. And I said sure that before. And so moved in they are just.

[00:58:12]
Into their home and unhealthy but you know well they were you know paper like most people living off the pace they were getting it right but it was a great little house right on the Chesapeake Bay. And. It came great experience and learned to really love the boys and it is something that bout being outdoors and well it was just sort of natural when I was a pond behind the house and so when I had sent him my fishing gear and so on so it was you know like a more like a Pay Commission Wow that's one of those which was great and of course I got to know them very well he was from Maine and played football at Dartmouth in the White House his name yes Larry Durkin the who actually amended organ you were working for.

[00:59:06]
And. Being from Maine he was you know had a lot of stories about the north woods and on which you enjoyed immensely trying to lighten Moosehead Lake I got to know you know in my mind yes and then. He was responsible later on the he was a little apprehensive about doing that of getting me transferred out to the west coast where I could actually fly.

[00:59:39]
The Naval Air Transport in fact the. Group we were with was Naval Air Transport Service. Even though I wasn't flying on the East Coast for us that connection OK you're on the East Coast in Maryland you said he was responsible for bullying you you know you were itching to get into something more than you were well so home are where you could see how long were you staying with him and his family I guess about here that I'm on that's a very long Yeah so and then he had help to get transferred to the west coast I didn't know it but OK we're on the west coast of Alameda California OK so you get out of there and that's where the Navy transport service was that the West Coast and their responsibility was to if I can use the word ferry or you know see to it that different personnel were transported from well it was like it was anything it was new layer transport so whatever it is but it was people not airplanes that you were transporting you were just using airplanes to transport people well people in things and they were there during the height of the war I'm sure they were taking supplies in and out and yeah but it wasn't that you were moving the planes from flying because that was another thing you know and I'm you know so you didn't actually pilot the plane no but you were part of the the truth of the room yeah and what part where you are as me said the radio operator operator and from there from our immediate you went into the Pacific arena.

[01:01:18]
That route was to. We had a number of stops on the way we were going to the Philippines and 1st stop was a little bit then there was a fuel stop it what they call Johnson Island that's just a small island it was just to the. Refuel Sambor because the next step was going to be in the Marshall Islands which.

[01:01:44]
We call mature. And from there to say I pay. And then from so I pan to Manila you folks right were all the action was going it had been Yeah yeah it was just that you were there just after the match but you were transporting in supplies and bringing back well mostly supplies there were times that we had people but mostly it was you know there's a large point here there were sea planes and there was even mine and.

[01:02:20]
Anyway it was that part was you know like a holiday and I was embarrassed because. The service we were doing they were having fun. But it was still a job I know and they had to be done so you know and what. The routine was that. Our 1st stop would be how little we Peter 24 hours and the next plane that came to Honolulu we flew to Europe and then we were there 24 hours the next plane came through we flew it.

[01:02:56]
So I pan and it was a regular route to you know it was just standard. Put mature I mean all of these places you have nothing to do for 24 hours. You have a little bit of getting ready when the next thing to come again. And you know beautiful islands and like to swim.

[01:03:21]
Facemask and swim things and settle before. And so I hope that you know what Joy the water. Collecting shells and whatever that was the sound into all. RIM And so it's all clean owns and so they're all circular when they see nature and on the inside of these craters it was just pretty white sand outside.

[01:03:54]
It has sort of a rim but it's like color on the top and so you have to be careful Yeah I'm voting on that but. But it was you know what a full time. Now the other places weren't so good for swimming. To be as bad to pants up to do it and so you were seeing the war after the fact you know it is that sentiment and you know how many of these round trips to the did you make.

[01:04:25]
I don't really agree limber problem I ever did see maybe more like 10 or 20 I was I was just there from must have been the summer of. 404645. The stranded member. What the war ended officially in 45 and I'd say you stayed out of it you never enough points to get out yet no more than 4045 took a little while even with people that had points yet to get everybody moving on so but you kept the route you're flying that it's pretty you know intense what I wanted to do in that kind of air time I mean you're putting a lot of no other light hours.

[01:05:15]
In the air and that's that's the most comfortable place in the world to be snow but then you were rewarded with good swimming on the other if that's right is well into middle children which broke but so when you finally did get out it was through Alameda. Yeah well they call it that was in the middle of the bay there but there's a.

[01:05:38]
Part they called Treasure Island and so most Navy people were they got out through treasures out through treasure How did you fly back to Atlanta or did you know my history that I don't remember I think. You were lucky and you know there were a lot of going on the big trades you know there were.

[01:06:01]
Going out there there were you know you were in what they call cattle cars and they were not like a regular train and they weren't as bad as cattle cars you didn't have to wear that for the whole time all boast I mean you you had you didn't stand up the whole time well you'd like to stand up because these things that have stores.

[01:06:25]
Outside so you couldn't stay in there you know it was it was tough for accommodations and a lecture passenger train Yeah not as bad as the cattle car well I did have one winner that I went back out there to come home on leave and we were going to.

[01:06:46]
I think you're what they call it is like the lamplight car it was from the 1800 households I said in my house this was the water and the route took us through good means that underpass area was and we had ice about an inch thick on the inside and only one of those it was place to call it and it was pretty cold and but they did light it with these landslides.

[01:07:14]
And kind of charming all the well history was a very scary thing so well so when you left your how you did come back to where you know you know was there and what you were then eligible for the G.I. Bill Yeah so was there any doubt that you're going to go to college you know for that to have that time I wasn't interested in going to become a foreign strength didn't think that was your future you know.

[01:07:37]
That I was too much still interested in technology I had thought about coming to tech and taking her not to call engineering. But. During the war the aircraft companies had taken any engineer they had and made a major nautical engineers so there was a surplus of the right was 1st place I didn't see the space thing coming.

[01:08:05]
Because that really put him to pick up but I'll tell you the eve came back and I was a fairly easy to get into to it seemed to be I mean I don't remember any any hassle did you respect your parents all you know we did OK You know I was happy to be there when I was sure yeah I would've been before yeah yeah yeah whatever you were old enough to know this is not a bad deal you know right and you had a little bit of time with the same home well my parents said but a cabin I guess.

[01:08:40]
1st of 46 upon a lake in one of Georgia. They had always wanted a place where you could face and now let sort of thing. So they had bought this place and told me about it but they bought that and so we went up there when you got right away and.

[01:09:04]
And it had it had a cabin and then it was a like a garage at the road. And a boat to Caracas there was a framed and room for the by 20 and nothing there except the framed room and I thought well that you know today I thought too that that would be a nice place to fix up as a separate.

[01:09:33]
Accommodating here for you. But it had it was in the hillside and behind it of course was a hill that came up right from the. Back of a took a right where you think you're going to live there well no not just days or summer you could stay the summer they could use it like for a cast or whatever but the back of it needed to be dug out at the time to put a.

[01:10:03]
Bathroom and make kitchen How did you do that and so that was my job what you made yourself and you want to have it or not yeah it was a lot of hard taking but now I I happen to know what you apply for school but you would wait till school started I have known at that time you met somebody who came pretty important in your life well if we had what was the circumstance what a routine there was to take the back of the.

[01:10:33]
House and then when it came. Suppertime itself and in Co Down to Holt's both about us which was a local sort of thing happen but they would have to have thing there and they had a juke box or whatever and so I met this young girl she had.

[01:10:58]
Before they actually bought this place back around 143 P. 4142 they had rented a cabin up there and you know the parents OK and. I would never had a boat I would be out on the lake and so on and so I met this girl home. In 46 at holes poked house and.

[01:11:28]
Asked her to dance and so we think it's going well and she remembered a time that I was up there on leave because we're always like this. And he didn't remember her but she remembered you know ahead and she and her sister were stranded but they have a little.

[01:11:51]
Outboard motor boat and he's in the motor equipped to do ride to the rescue we have just gone by and I stopped about all day do you know it's wonderful your hero is. So anyway she remembered to head and when she younger than you are stronger than he and I was 3 years younger and now you were his men were Jews and I was.

[01:12:15]
No question about it but it was a friend of mine who'd been a pilot in World War 2 and we were best friends and he was there to help me take out the house and so I told him when we left I said sticker on the Murray You knew right off the bat I was filming her and so it was and where am I but you were leaving and she would live where with her for well they had a They've rented a cabin in the family she from which she from Atlanta from Marietta A from the area and she was there with.

[01:12:49]
Her sister and on a bus and OK so when you went back to Atlanta she went back to Marietta did you stay in touch. With that what I heard writing letters calling doing well what she. Started to take in the fall and she was already going to University of Georgia OK So you were geographically pretty separated then but you can't we stayed about you know because every weekend or whatever I had traveled over to Athens and so we'd have you know Saturday night or whatever there which was you know.

[01:13:27]
It's faster to get there now but it was not like it was doable just to OK we're talking $146.00 in Georgia Tech is just loaded with veterans and I mean everybody's come back to school on a G.I. Bill you didn't sign up for aeronautical engineering What did you write what did you well there you may finish my 1st year today you know I want to know when you got there which is showing a major property cleared it.

[01:13:56]
Are not likely to know you didn't even have to get in because I didn't know anything about any crime in you take all the Course I'm about anything so how prepared were you for TAC boy prepared people fairly well well it did it did more than I knew at the time yes they did you you did have a hard time no effect.

[01:14:18]
I did all right in chemistry you know that. Focused. But I really loved it that 1st year. Everything sort of came back even though I didn't know that much even when I was a boy sat and I thought well this this is great and I'm going to like this it's going to be looking at the you know and you were commuting you were getting from home did you have a car.

[01:14:44]
Yeah I could there were times I parked my car and then other times I tried it was somebody else there with so you did not put our own car yeah right on to us but it wasn't a big deal get back and forth to trial and you really found you liked going to school you have.

[01:15:03]
And I didn't and I guess at the end of that year you kind of make up your mind make up your man and that's when I didn't go to promising future at that time because of all the sewing which did you well. Like I had mentioned I liked art and I liked chemistry.

[01:15:28]
Then for some reason other put the 2 together I thought well that is opportunities of artistic abilities to supplement ceramics and. Chemistry which is basically what sort of a mix it is it's high temperature chemistry so I went to see Dr Mitchell. And it was not the best meeting because I made a mistake with saying that I like art.

[01:15:59]
He let me know right away that that's not what they teach it like going to be an artistic lab and that's it. The only reason I mention that is I thought maybe when I leave it there might be some opportunities for me you've got a problem where or what are where or whatever where I could you know enjoy the 2.

[01:16:22]
So anyway. It is here prepared to be all right he accepted you but he did it was no reservations start with Yeah so anyway I thoroughly enjoyed. The. You got right into surrounding it your hands met and did the mineralogy and. I guess everything to do with raw materials was was very interesting did you remember any of the professors besides Dr Mitchell Yeah all over say all they had 3 professors.

[01:16:58]
One of. Was my favorite professor anywhere. So why sum up. So that I. Missed his 1st name when I saw what I saw he had 2 sons that play football. Like what I saw and another Peyton. You know frankly why son when he was a toddler but he the professor the right he taught mineralogy the use of the microscope and all that sort of study really took a shine to him and when I met privately he was a mentor to take him geology like very much who did you have for chemistry.

[01:17:43]
I don't remember later on this started out with. Talk of Whitley No I'll take it down I don't know how much that was a. To the. Way they had normally do it but he was a. Tenured professor. Teaching freshman. Chemistry. And not just you know one of the best Professor C. later became.

[01:18:20]
Head of the department and I was then why Whitley Whitley help you. It was not uncommon at that time for you to have professors that were not much older than you or well he was very very young when I met that but he was that he was the middle of the one and it was it I thought it was one he knew how to teach and he was there the very interesting time was now and then later had just come in when we were under the 1st precious ministration in a long time because of course Dr Britton has been there just for asthma so that so that later comes in and he starts changing things around and by the dad's got good material good football teams and he starts changing things around and there's just a lot of you know when coach Alex was there at the time you had George Harrison at the time you had Freddy the new you know you probably didn't have to take Brown profane because that you were a veteran Yeah yeah but you must been aware of one or yeah well we did the same thing in the Navy basically because the Navy had to do that yeah it was well he also was the 1st person that really I guess understood.

[01:19:33]
The act for a while now he did a lot of research into because that was that. A top secret thing during World War 2 nobody even knew it existed and yet he was working on those that but and also we we would open one date where he for his face was where we were on the campus later so.

[01:19:57]
We would see him then and he was showing us. How they had quite a lot of work. Then why it why people hadn't been successful in underwater. Freezing mechanism isn't that well you can't you can't pool where and with your lungs more than about 3 or 4 inches below the surface you can push air as you call it but you can't pull it and he understood that principle well.

[01:20:31]
The Frenchman. That that developed it found out how to make that difference and what he did was to make a control device they choose war on your chest and therefore the. Air Supply was no more than an inch or 2 from your lawn and then you could have and you have more you have air coming in under pressure but it's only released when you inhale I can remember people telling us that for they don't know it was working out all kinds of contraptions might that in all of his spare time and sometimes what he did is he grabbed on students to be his unique Yeah so that's.

[01:21:18]
Yeah I hear started that right from the get go I know you know he'll never break down everything in the head with his but not a lot of people know that he was actually experiment you know underwater brain size except for the poor souls that took part and there was one guy who talked a lot at times about how Freddy used him.

[01:21:38]
Heard Macaulay's name I don't know if you ever knew her or her because only was one of that he eventually took off or drum proofing from home runs after you know long after when Freddie passed away but he was also one of his subjects. Yeah he said son of a gun he put it down 30 there you know if that was going to work.

[01:22:01]
So fine stories about that but the the point where you were there were some very very interesting people and very much who do you have memories of. Well there's so many here. That. I took well. Before coming to take I had. Worked in Cleveland Ohio. Where you were just talking about after you graduated we haven't gotten you through you know YET to well how do you live there was after.

[01:22:34]
We kind of got it all from 000 with their money I thought you know my you were stupid you know damn well you did not know my US did I would have thought you would you know what I mean. The geology department I'd like geology very much while I was going there and.

[01:22:54]
I can't remember studying right now but he would talk about geology in the sense of geology itself not so much we took mineralogy in that way in order to. The rules because we want to use them and right mix. But he I guess was the 1st one that I had to kind of explain a little bit about how things got where they are.

[01:23:22]
Not anything about what you have written me. It's like to give you know give you know no one credit because they're all gone yeah if you think of it you tell him you know I did you ever meet do you know the Smiths why you were there I don't think so OK he was still there when there is he was Uncle hiding it was still there when you were there you had you ever see him around like you have a team around the campus you know you did have a chance to actually I've seen him and when you guys came back you were doing the shop classes you know that had been there when the war so you were settled in well you really could do it if you were in the chemical hearing for example but the fact that you were in a red another engineering program your focus was on that right so you were working there where were the ceramic engineering classes how they were then this or that we could you know every building where was that it was.

[01:24:14]
It was sort of a small Well I'm not familiar to new places Well it was that one time it was the Navy. This was perforce the ceramic and you know you still had. You know a fox on the front of it that said maybe or O.T.C. or something so you were right on the very fact they were surprised there is an down from my welfare street I think came up in from the city politicos.

[01:24:45]
Yeah because part of the naval armory which was was there a 3rd that went by there OK It went out of the I think HILL Yeah it was up the hill Yeah the physics building was on one side the street and sort of well if you're going around the stadium would have been the at the Naval armory filming right yeah right you were at 1st Street and I guess 3rd and FOWLER Yeah it was a let corner yeah yeah that it still is.

[01:25:12]
But it's been many things I detail it was ceramic and yeah every so that you have labs in there to work yeah we had everything in there Wow Well you know they have the kills and the you know yeah everything the outside of the building says the same but lord knows how much she says I know and there but our classrooms where they are of course.

[01:25:31]
Physics and chemistry there was all your little section right in there well yeah it was close close by so your time those 2 1st 2 years you were on the campus you were pretty much staying right in the heart of the camp and here you were a minister very things and you did well you were interested so you did you know you know meanwhile you were keeping your relationship up with you we married in 48 when you when did you get married when we're 9042 nil haven't in June of 91 yet so you came back to school you know that Paul is a married man that's right yeah Where did you live did you run an apartment where we thought.

[01:26:12]
We couldn't get an apartment or hardly We are just somebody that but they had. This is it. There was the Naval Air Station hunt shambling Yeah and it was a you know what had been a hospital there in fact it was still called for Gordon in the Senate Kerry not there yet is still there still road they call Hospital Dr Yeah I know exactly where that OK and they had barracks.

[01:26:42]
For those that were you asleep and yeah there were I think the parents had for each one had 4 partment and there were 2 up stairs into the downstairs and we were able to get in there. I guess after about 6 minutes or something that's a long commute it was put to their goal tech people yeah I thought I could be there with it's own little world it was like a village really I mean you have I understand it was a barber shop there and I just am in all cases and up and so did you have a car by then or did you have we got a car in 49 and that's not going to make your move there by then I've heard stories about the taxis that ran back and forth because the bus line didn't go that far.

[01:27:29]
But they remember the taxes too much because they take a lot of these to open for work ticket about to catch a bus and they were running circles you know the circle the SO and robbing him blind sure yeah so what you got so then with Jane your goal was to get that degree yes it's going in the world right there right and I had.

[01:27:52]
In 1950. A company in Cleveland Ohio had an intern. Contest I think they had tests they appear here. For ceramics students that. Were. Doing something at the hadst who are still students. In there will pour some and then will no they never tries it now Scorpio you heard about it Media Center Yes it wasn't it was kind of interesting because Georgia Tech had a course Porson them on what courses were to the minimal past sin stoves no lets her stuff it's just a class composition it's noted on to the metal and it becomes what they call porcelain have well it's something that's not emphasized at all that I mean you have of course part of the routine is part of the routine but another school that was more yeah I know the university thought I know it will help study some of the others all very big and that did you enter the path and I thought that I had done Georgia Tech ceramic engineering was and maybe still it is not the only department take that he thought.

[01:29:24]
Required a thesis of 400 credit and I had done one connected with. White wire China whatever it be but it was a way to study some aspect of it but it wasn't typical but it was you know what you dream up I guess when you want to do some different and I thought well maybe I could do something along those lines just looking at the class.

[01:29:55]
But that would be used in ports and. What was once it was a nationwide contest to him and take time it was a lot of money it was $500.00. Which was a couple of months have already been inside of what the heck entered and I won Wow You were the national when he got out and what did you get out of that besides $500.00 well.

[01:30:21]
You got a job offer right well trip to New York and you know hold the stuff that goes with the award but that was kind of find they had he would say to New York excitement here we're not really see the site but attend a meeting and so in the process they well there was a lot of hurt feelings because people who were in the you know majoring in person animals.

[01:30:48]
They thought they should we're not you know it's. The way we really study porousness mammals of the company which was called feral. Like the idea that was completely out of the box and usually the to say that certain that that typical So they offered me a job and I said.

[01:31:12]
You know I don't know much about porcelain animals. Georgia Tech or says that at all and they said well that's what we could kind of like because from. When we're going and things as about Yeah right yeah so then you don't even have to go look for a job when you graduate and do you remember graduating.

[01:31:32]
I didn't even come for the graduation you just left no because they wanted me to start and to write the 1st thing for the graduation would have been June Yeah but I had to. We had to figure out some way to to get. Home so we're going to you know so you packed up our town your base your graduation I missed I missed my graduation for helper I was the biggest graduation tech you'd ever had you know 950 right and you're not one of those guys to the line and say they didn't have bought any greater waste but one I know it was a whole year right and I graduated in January or February whatever the date.

[01:32:15]
And they were hanging around you would need to well. I did some work for. Mr WEST on. Because. I guess by that time maybe I had heard differs also on the tennis and so I knew I would be waiting until we live a little time to split and there and then did some work and then moved on well I went to the meeting then in May and they wanted me they are not the 1st to fly so you collected Jane and you 2 went up to Cleveland Ohio to start your life with a stop in for one which is on the way back Amanda who had been my commander he and his wife had bought of what had been a man in the Revolutionary War and were fixing it up they were going to be this commander Durgan they are not to lead us anywhere for a visit and I had to wait it because what they have because Jane it never met them well that's OK And so we spent several days help a new plane to pour in to satisfy the fans but anyway the grown up by that they were getting.

[01:33:28]
That was a nice photo anyway and what happened when you moved to Cleveland to find an apartment there well. We had an upstairs apartment in a. You know so more total now was you when Jane after you married she worked at Georgia on the campus then right so that you came in to work every day together you came for school she came for work right and you made short shift of getting your degree getting out of the way now when you got to Farrow did they have work you were interested in well before there are no after after I had won the prize.

[01:34:06]
I had applied at Berkeley I was going to get independence degree and protocols. So they have a very good story we can do near new apartment back to here that apartment became a good friend of mine when I didn't hear anything from them and we had to call ahead and leave make up my mind about going to.

[01:34:30]
Cleveland and. So that I hadn't heard anything in fact. They had said that I think it was. You know a student teaching position there and setting them had to agree where it perfectly OK But she said you didn't hear back but never from her panel and so you went on a quiz so I went on to Cleveland in the meantime I had gotten.

[01:35:00]
Correspondence from Berkeley I'm sure it's because of the content. That's it you know we read it for you come away it was too late by that without it so you didn't change your mind and we went on the air now when you were in Sarah did they have work to worry interested in yeah I mean I thought because it was as you said out of the box from what you did well the application that I use to study what the stakes of the end was never were out of the box because it was a sort of a novel way of study so what did they find for you to do there well it just they had a regular research and development OK part of our Indian ceramic you know right in were you comfortable because I mean everything you do with that one so concerned with the planning it and there were actually enabling the handle except.

[01:35:59]
To get properties of the whole idea was it was a continuation on your own finding out what was in that right and what you would have learned you know some of that in school they were doing it by trial and error right in the laboratory Well I had problems to work on and I had a lot of fun with that way because I got to you know innovate some stuff so you didn't regret your decision I don't know but your you stayed there for less than less than 3 years to not have a year yet and what prompted you to move.

[01:36:32]
There was a well I think ferment station which you know back in Georgia when I did and of course I would love to come back to today. There was one individual that was in this new department which basically was a new room in the Hinton building and he was the only funding that was the day in Kate's.

[01:36:57]
State Gates the G 8 you know obviously obviously you were aware of this gentleman named Angus and I had no doubt he got the ceramic department very much run a and you were in touch with him I mean yeah well I somehow don't know exactly how it started.

[01:37:17]
There might be an opening to have somebody else there OK because the only work that was available you know. Strap excited guest It wasn't really ceramics were Georgia Clay's and there was the state had a certain amount of money that they would support a program to sort of characterize some of the clays if they were doing a lot of work prior that with the keel and yet it but so much the majority of the Kalen that Georgia produces goes into paper right now and you know there's a printer at that time yeah that and I think that still is in Refractories.

[01:38:00]
I guess that a couple contacts maybe some other companies in that built area Kalen of course of a big for the refractors industry. But it was with all of relatively new area for ceramics and what you're saying well are opportunities for experimenting sir I hope. The only money that they had coming in was cool you know as a Caylee because I said you which are yet running again.

[01:38:30]
So I thought well. It's only been about 2 years but it has learned a lot of the crowd no other way so the things to do with remix so you want that effort and I might you know because I have experience in that I might be able to get some money through the Navy or somewhere.

[01:38:52]
So that's what it's all about it's coming up with concepts and getting it right it right and so it was almost a last minute thing because we've been talking for 6 months or so and apparently they said you know. We haven't we'll make an opening and I go down and join Dan and which we what we could do so you and James moved back to we moved back to my head and moved out near where we were a long time ago because I have to share what I had got an apartment and they were building your apartment and then you went to work at the Union Building and what did you think well.

[01:39:34]
It was a matter of sort of getting your feet wet 1st Both things were I found out you know as I went along that door to take that experiment station was very open to innovation it was like the Wild West right and yeah time you had so many innovators and now the same didn't exactly so.

[01:39:57]
After about a year maybe less than a year to handle have and went to Clinton. And I think that makes that was a an individual it experiments that experiment stations that with a company of people like myself. To you know government activities that were in the business of supporting research and especially the Navy he had been in the Navy before.

[01:40:32]
You know to mention his name I can remember when I was around it was but he was encouraging to you that well I was sort of his job and to be he introduced me to some people in Washington who was the head is yes at that time who were you working hard on were a lot of them it seems just so many.

[01:40:59]
At one time was was there. And said at the chemistry thank you History Division I think to call it along with your boss when you went there was one thing to think it was the one true Fred to help mentor. And he was it was a well to chemistry OK So ceramics was working under candidates honest OK And I said.

[01:41:28]
There was a lot of problem in the Navy with the submarine what they called snorkel to. Of left them to prevent a war that they could exhaust a diesel engine exhaust and all with this little pipe stuck up above the water and. It would work with stainless steel but that really wasn't what they wanted to use so they were considering Porson and I am a coverings about for the snorkel too and you were aware of that so well I became aware Yeah so you could then they were let in and I had done I had experience in that field so it was a natural fit and then that we back grant money yeah and then we got the nice grant from them helped us build some equipment that we needed and that sort of thing and that also builds your reputation to somebody who knows what they're doing him in ceramic engineer but about.

[01:42:32]
56 I guess this was 52. The red 156 a man came in to the north and. Wanted to get in touch with somebody they could do some research or experimentation on to make up a ceramic mold for testing iron pouring iron into. Something that would survive. You know that they make a say in Boulder pour iron and in the early things destroy it but he thought if they could do something like that he could.

[01:43:12]
So they do you know you use it over again and he had become aware of some scrap ceramic which was a scrap of. Silica. And he was effectively any side of that and more to see if you could do that which So he came in to C.N.N. as a regular client you know that was a regular thing for people and I think hey we got a problem right you fix it well it was something he wanted to invent in the sense yeah.

[01:43:44]
So we we followed you know use of the scrap material and so many you said after that after that worked or right he was worried about the source of this material know the words assist but you don't remember it again as he thought about it which was really.

[01:44:03]
Genius idea but he said. Basically the maternally wanted to use was silica like silica sand basically used in little stalls for him mixed but take that and melted which people were doing it was a lot of chemical. Glassware hurts all that to stay in very high temperature is that they would make out of you so much but he said Suppose we just melted the silicon but didn't care what it looked like because when you make a nice to perturb clear to you.

[01:44:42]
The So look at Mills It's such a high temperature and it's so sticky it really has to get very hot over 3000 what 3000 degrees and there's so much money put into that that you couldn't afford to use that to make something like. Metal one frying pan or whatever.

[01:45:04]
And that was really the start of the experiment than fantastic period of time because once people you know basically do them helping reduce an electrical arc to milk that it would make like well I'm trying to understand so you were collaborating with him when he had the ideas you had the lab and but he has to come in and work with you on this stuff so he come in and see what was going was going on but you could see that it was it you said a genius of an idea right because it has so many properties which people are looking for military expenses What is it what are we talking about it we're told to Velika you know that's just pure silicon.

[01:45:51]
Now and where do you get that. Out of the backyard practically I mean both of these where each is around and you are being sand in other words and it's a major component of also having this so you by saying about a truck I have reached and that what I don't understand what was different about what you were doing as compared to what everybody if you consider the class itself you want to make an object out of this it's extremely expensive Right but if you're not if you but if you're about to put the properties.

[01:46:26]
Sought after. It doesn't expand basically which means that if you heat it on one side it doesn't break if you take a bubble and so what would you end up with. To form it we're going to take this thing that some help and grind it out. Make like a powder then take that powder and mix it with water and then we would treat it like any other sort to make hot so you would be high pretty and do a lot of different less of it so that was the magic part way that was the magic then over sudden all these ideas come to mind so a whole industry hoping that the new could and what the Navy and not the Navy do with the military.

[01:47:16]
In the late fifty's they had plenty of have a case where all they had particularly one application which was ballistic missiles and course it got the most for what I was out working on that but not with ceramics I know you are bringing a new one well they had tried ceramics but every time you heated fast and I had temperature it breaks it's just like poor boiling water in a iced tea class is the strategy but if it doesn't expand.

[01:47:53]
And shatter in fact. Once you start making the ceramic. You can heat it up to 2000 degrees or some and just put in and water. And it will stay Chloe underwater but it didn't break and you guys were the words that were uncovering the secret the secret was making it cheap Yes I was so you don't have to make imbeciles that was a really big deal I attracted a lot of money well I did because I help if you make it as a ceramic it's opaque which means that.

[01:48:31]
And also it's very insulated that you were talking about this happening in the late fifty's 565759 with Sputnik Mir and then that was the beginning of all of the competition for this basement Well they had program they had efforts at Redstone to valuate materials it turns out to her World War 2 But the term is that a fair amount of work on would.

[01:48:55]
It seems strange that you might use wood but it turns out if you have thought of wood and you heat it intensely on one side it doesn't just go in the flame it charges and it takes a while for that char to transmit heat. Like putting a log on a power it doesn't suddenly catch on power up all the way through it you know you understand right so you were in a sense doing it with a different kind of material right and they tried ceramics because they would like them but they all just shatter when they test them by hand a rocket engine and it's awesome that engine which is $4000.00 degrees or so yours did and I was there and in fact boy there was a lot of concern at 1st something was wrong with their test facility because they never had anything to sit there and you know which it is so that was a real big thing you know for a certain that but but the same that was a proof because about the same time David moved into what they call a plate of materials where it's just.

[01:50:05]
This was gone well the surface of a very slowly heat but as it heats then it sort of solves Yes and it's a finite time that you really enter it's you know it doesn't call on for hours so. I'm sure that in there man they thought about the fact that this might break a ceramic might break otherwise we might hit it with something to break where you're pretty and so's the boat was going on you're pretty happy and yeah yeah I mean it was like you were in the candy store Yeah that was one exciting thing after another well you did it intuitively once we got really the point of want the same some do but Redstone.

[01:50:52]
A 1000 other applications came yes because it's just one thing led to another and there was a lot going on the D.S. not only in ceramic engineering but in everything that's been crossed the board right there were breakthroughs left and right with the VS was really become Yeah our forks and you were happy to be there so well mainly because.

[01:51:14]
You can pursue these things that you like you said you were a kid making and then you have to indulge yourself was because that was the funding there to try new things and make the world a better place who knew what was going to be my right. J.D. is we look at this career that you had left Let's cover it by highly so without So we don't get too technically because we can't possibly cover everything you did in Ahmed times of the sixty's what did you feel were the highlights of the sixty's for us the.

[01:51:55]
Obvious started. Having this new material we call it you it's all but what made it where you were using it when they ran you so all of these are had is a proud how you can use it to meet a lot of. Problems that you're running into in the sixty's specially with the on the missiles were missiles the space program all of that and the fact that this material takes sudden heating up and it doesn't break but other properties like cause it's transparent to radar.

[01:52:37]
Suggest other applications for right and heat is in follow up in. The last fortnight if you go on for those 5 times the speed of sound things are getting very hot right so what we foresaw at that time that you know sort of the world's Or just read to so many things we can do we start menu creating things that the world's going to need the right and you get the funding always for the me like they will socially as missiles want to go faster and the missiles that are guided by radar have to see where they're going right and so literally he is exactly and for a low temperature flight you know you're out of on every aircraft of everything you know moving around just needs some kind adult to protect the radar but there were even in the sixty's beginning to.

[01:53:38]
Look at flight Polaski said leave it like 5 times just because the sound so in the hole is bulky it isn't hearted getting over a couple of 1000 degrees Fahrenheit. So we just for granted experiment well they fit in and just tell the story because we knew people were looking for things like that so what you put the fact you've got a better way on there the world how spread out I'm right and the Navy was interested the Air Force was interested in others as well so a lot of time during that period was as we got funding was to find out how it works and there are lot of experimental defy system jet engine exhaust rocket exhaust things like that can provide heat and at that time there was a missile being developed that was going to close I have times the speed of sound and that was going to get very hard and we didn't know how to test it but we're pretty sure we've got a few that will be here it's not that now is going.

[01:54:48]
On out in New Mexico they need it some rockets with it that they were putting to test things with. Lower speed they were you can testing people and help the effect to have a lasting. And they heard it was interested in this particular missile and so they modified the sleigh and now they are that 4000 feet it would Pico and about 5 times the speed of sound isn't that amazing it is.

[01:55:22]
So so you could test things that you will come up but then right and we had a contract had to develop some way to connected and we would could just sit. Yes the radio out there it has to we have to get help connecting techniques and so on but we did and they were having fun where you know we weren't it was about I mean this was the program with the department growing we're hiring more people and in fact about I guess it was in the early sixty's we had to move what we've already taken up a large amount of space and in one building.

[01:56:02]
And so they they had a building over in area 2. Which was at least the space we had in him and then they built an not building one but a penalty where we could experience fabrication and that sort of thing so the Institute was supporting you and having this all happen an exciting time with it was and in addition to the raid on.

[01:56:31]
Lucky it was interesting what we get promoted that is there's a possibility for making. Surfaces that could be heated and it would heat rattle and you could use the ceramic to form the metal which is much cheaper than they can think steel dyes and then I have a great rest and there was the unlimited need for that and tools and bigness that sort of output that led to.

[01:57:04]
An even more breakthrough. On a plane that you were to say anything in the late fifty's. For supersonic foam or the skull V 70. Everything had to sort of be reinvented because the plane was going to flight 3 which means of all the services that aircraft were going to be in the 5600 degree.

[01:57:35]
Temperature area so what you're saying is it was a it was redone on steroids so I had a very rough enough the Concorde would like to have flown faster but it flew it ran amuck to yeah and that was hard enough to beat the limit for whom I'm so now you've got a built plane not a stainless steel and that's heavy compared aluminum Yeah so North American came up with the idea of making the same which honeycomb where you have 2 pieces of metal and a honeycomb and that's really important weight.

[01:58:15]
And they know how to do that you brace the pieces together. At a reasonably high temperature but you've got to hold them while they're being praised. And stuff they had there was there going to be huge surfaces that are hot that can hold as well for maybe 4050 feet.

[01:58:42]
Like a wing section and not move. And it seemed to be a sort of an impossible task but a challenge but. During the same period of time a company is being built by John orbit a man 1st hope for a guy that came to talk and he was beginning to follow the.

[01:59:09]
Story that we were slick casting so he could make it lightweight and then they could. Cement together box of this stuff because you want 70 feet by 40 feet whatever so you were pretty there out there I was delighted and they can put heating elements strips strips of heating elements.

[01:59:32]
And a blanket of insulation and then put this honeycomb on it could be as big as you want. Because the B 7 is a huge airplane. And that never become a reality but it works and they've built to be 70 using that technique so that was so you were part of that as part of that but meanwhile you were working on the radio and.

[01:59:59]
And yeah in fact the finessing all of the tests that we were running with the rockets with of that missile became the Patriot How about that we all know where that one is right now and so it looked was an early earlier version right in that war of one but the hope or 2 that it was doing better to have it was never meant to intercept a missile it was a video of a fast something to catch the aircraft bombers and things like that.

[02:00:37]
How would you characterize it what would you say were the highlights of the next decade the 70s. When you were moving over into the seventy's I guess just with what we're already doing. That's one of the servants came on I think getting that time Maurice lonesome I think and believe that a trip to get to swear it was but when he came back well it was suppose we'd read ahead of time that there was a sports over from this in the Pyrenees.

[02:01:12]
And so when he got back and get existed I'm pretty sure existed he wrote to me and he said we need to look at that furnace on sort of within about a year I guess I contacted the people there and. They said you know Sure come on look at what we were facing at that time was another application of for radar but not in flight of.

[02:01:45]
The Cold War was really heating up and if you're going to defend. An area like a missile silos. You know it's a target everybody knows where the his fellows are so you know the enemy is going to be after you know the missiles are down deep enough you don't have to worry about physical damage but you do have to look in see these missiles coming in and that type of radar has to be above the ground.

[02:02:20]
Physically they can be strong enough to stand but the radar has to be protected so in order to be protected it has to have a cover these are smaller pieces but they have to be covered and the thing that most it's to prevent with the 1st when you're assuming a bombs going off now then you've got to withstand that how is the flesh of that but on that dust so much damage the shock wave comes in later how do you protect it and so we had.

[02:03:01]
I think already at. The Army. Center in Massachusetts had a smaller so for this we need to protect larger areas so we're looking for something bigger looking for some real pay and that furnace would do it it would be to get Japan and Europe at 8 inches so.

[02:03:27]
The family had come over just for a couple of weeks vacation over to row over to Italy what family just changed Misael to knock yourself out to younger that way you had mentioned what you thought about it so you went for a vacation over there and you did you go back and then so we decided we contacted the people at the ferries and they would meet us at the train and.

[02:03:51]
Where you had entertained the idea then of actually I don't know if you can buy it I mean it it's. It was a wonder how he ever got the money to build it because at the end so enormous Well it is said and it's so limited as to what you can do with it but it's a thing we did buy it then a leap of a small version We didn't buy him a version of I don't we bought something from Italy right but that was another story.

[02:04:22]
But this thing from this which really was our bread and butter for a long time there. So you don't want to look so 1st of all right and then what did you bring that was your i Pad well that this would be the ideal to evaluate materials to see both how they transmit radar right while they're being heated that this really was flash.

[02:04:50]
So that was that was the concept behind it that I or were you going to build your own here you know. C.T. the service even a spare met with them over there then I said well we could do it just like you had a relationship in New Mexico you were going to have a relationship right there early and what is the well it was bought and brought here that was the smaller one that.

[02:05:13]
Was practical from the standpoint of testing so the concept of concentrating so when energy so that's what we've brought we've bought the smaller one didn't do experiments with it well and to tell you wait that system OK so hot for making steam Who would have paid for that how did that come through.

[02:05:35]
Was that a grand something that it was a grand. There there was money being spent all the time a conversion using solar to make things work. Was when you were going over there. To work with them to do to conduct your experiment on the big one what was the timeframe when the when the little one came with the before or after that well that the the one that came here was entirely different I mean didn't work the same way and but we called it a solar furnace Well that was really a separate solar energy it defies you know which it was getting called a furnace no because it was what we could do lower temperature test of things I mean they called it a test facility is well established where was it.

[02:06:28]
Right on the main campus was you know it's like when they took it down they built about the building over there and it was in the area where the high manly arithmetic back in that area there yeah I think so kind of wasn't when they paved over. Hemphill impale it was in there is it goes down to where the police were going but it actually wasn't that you were interested in are working yeah I actually did Civic Association to get it OK here it was for a different project there but if you were doing OK or different it was solar energy where is the solar furnace is a device to carry out experiments on what that were said the little bit service purpose Absolutely How do you make a decision to take it down then the way to You mean the one on the campus Yeah I was retired by then somebody else we came back down after you left them but all the time you were working there it was there yeah once you negotiate you actually helped negotiate gitting it here yeah which was a big deal or no you call it the small one it was not phone but it was it was small the stores.

[02:07:42]
On the range of the experiment and you know I know so the studies you could make a comment but you know did you actively use that even after it came you know in part of your research you know. But the big solar furnace was a whole different ball game that was.

[02:08:00]
Somehow 230 feet high just because it's in trade or does it still exist you know they're still to us and we went by there. And how often did you go back and forth. Perfect regularly over by 10 year period pretty regularly like 2 or $34.00 times a year you know so you've logged a lot of miles ahead on their dad and when you wait it's day for a short period of time well I guess that's the longest time was a month or maybe a little over a month you know and you were like a visiting professor to them but we were going with a paramedic or not I guess well question we will do is this out of the goodness of their heart no way we're paying them that he uses the silver and of course is in the world of one like that so when there are other countries also doing that others are there and I think others came along I think one of the reasons they were.

[02:08:56]
Like the 1st time we went over for a moment. I didn't realize it was there for the kitchen one. And they normally wouldn't best weapon think about that's why they did mine every year and I think that early on but it was Berkeley or MIT or any of the other technical know if you schools doing that they there were some you know what.

[02:09:22]
An energy company actually thought based on a lot of stuff because we publicize the thing pretty that's what we're doing but there were no other actual schools or universities because even here at the time you were there were. Eventually you went live there no that was in Italy This is the Pyrenees the one I'm OK with that you have to be very confused now because I don't know the difference so there were 2 large furnace is that well they were so different one was not really that hard which was the large one the fake reflecting the furnace that was really a furnace where was that that was in the Pyrenees and that's the one you were going back and forth like that what was the one in Italy of.

[02:10:08]
The only one the only place we've worked in Italy of a one has technology transfer program for the radio that they wanted to make they were part of the NATO system and they were building the spiral missile so but the majority of your time with the Pyrenees and not Italy.

[02:10:32]
Italy was the continuous time. That was the technology transfer where these things happening simultaneously Were you working on both by then so you could have been going to the Pyrenees or you could have been going to Italy. Comes the don't you weren't that was not clear to me and I did not understand so they were continue with an even odder there at that time you were negotiating for the one that came here as a list so there were actually 3 different facilities will call them when really there was experiments going on for you the one in Italy was more demonstration OK Italy it turns out France both of those countries have a longstanding history and with solar energy of it not like we're using them but in the 1700s way back when I think they were already thought a pretty idea chemistry studying elements.

[02:11:39]
Required heat and a lot of places and they actually harness. Well if you call that magnifying glass harnessing it was the beginning and everybody was doing it the interim and frankly if you can cycle in it's pretty you think God is the biggest of the. Things that come from trying so we had all these different projects and now what you're telling me is that when you were in Italy it was more of a demonstration of the experiment really well making radio which was what you were experiment thing in creating on it but we we developed it when you say it sounds like it's an object that gets made and it's done but it was a continual resigned Man of it wrong correct Well there are all stages in other words you have to make it there so if.

[02:12:30]
You have to machine them number one you have to machine them so they match the frequency of the radar but were you doing that kind of work you know somebody else was what you were with the experimental work underneath it that allowed it to even become a pass a bill that was all that Texas but then when it's over in Italy that's where the testing was going well that's where the manufacturing was going to was OK and they had to learn they had splendid a program that you were to take.

[02:13:02]
So there was a lot of networking going on between other countries and other military for and all of the military was involved in a way because of course the applications the military program our Welding. So that the company itself after they know how to make them. Which has a lot of precision stuff when.

[02:13:23]
Then everything else they do is them with the radar itself was being developed or radar being developed right add to or detector in one area right so all of this was all happening simultaneously and you were keeping very very busy there was no doubt of that ceramic for the right place for you to have a light yeah you never were bored were you and I 1st few minutes right.

[02:13:52]
When did you move into town rather than stay on Champlain. 55 so 55 you moved into the big city with this sounds into this very happen to kind of years ago close out. Yeah close shot to where except when you were busy raising the world now I know again from talk to you earlier that eventually you actually moved there you and Jane moved to him in a row to move to Rome for several months yeah 7 months the 1st time and then.

[02:14:26]
After that I had to retire so it was after I was visiting. Went there while you were actually employed by E.E.'s Well I took a leave of absence You work to work in the editing. So I was basically an employee there during that time we had our. Current one not a contract we had an agreement.

[02:14:53]
I guess with the State Department 3 Georgia Tech that I could take this technology and teach them apply it I think had supported us from about a year before they had to do it here in other words where they could watch it and see and then they were rated you speak Italian no to James because I know but how does that work look in their lowest 100 degree for his face thing which they are probably not a lot of the workers that I work with did not did not.

[02:15:24]
Chief people and everybody learns to get along yes did you enjoy that time absolutely to live in a different country and I want to go on but Rome was this fascinating as you said it is shocking I guess is a wonderful wonderful city you can't run out of things to learn so I think the menu and some of it is so magical There is wonder if.

[02:15:47]
It is you had to have found like so many people that foreign travelers brought me here is your whole different perspective on the world does is a kids learn the same thing so it's OK it was a great experience. Let's come back to Georgia Tech after that period talk resumed How did you ever make the decision to make your decision that you want to retire why did you retire well what are the.

[02:16:17]
Still haven't other things to do with the tech which I did it. After all this exposure to solar energy. And most of it was have visibility stuff. I just picking up when I began to look about it history so. That. For example there was a chemist by the name of love a love R.C.A. that you study when you're taking chemistry.

[02:16:54]
That. Kind of developed a technique for getting very high temperatures with solar energy and then it was you know hundreds of years ago if you come back to the 1700 kids you have no electricity. You have no Fergus's and yet they're managing to do what you can you know make China and that sort of thing you know we get there we're doing that for but you know centuries if you want to study of material and control over how you study it.

[02:17:27]
So what energy is of magic because it goes through class so it needs it you can make a vessel out of class and seal that input of element whatever in that environment and then study and study it at hot temperature almost impossible to do otherwise because what did that happen so it was your fascination with history that prompted you to retire you know it was all the things you can do in this field.

[02:18:03]
So you just wanted more time to do that well I wanted more things to do. And I was very interested in. Some of the 30. On deforestation that goes on in Africa there were tears there were issues all over the world you rejected it so what's your thought if you're not tied down to a job you have more time to do the know that I could figure out some way to get money to take to start doing these things I loved off because then you would become a contractor you know there was what did that work Tracy you know it worked because so often the need was there no it hadn't been a couple years as you get older you you figure out why it hadn't been accomplished but most people think they just won't use it.

[02:18:55]
And you think about women over there has it been hours every day collecting wood would just cook with us and so you see that is a burden that you find out later that the fact that they have to walk 10 miles to get enough wood to cook dinner.

[02:19:20]
Didn't happen overnight it happened over 1520 years so now it's a social event. And if they didn't have that social event and had something else to do to men are not really excited about the fact that they're doing something else that they don't know exactly what they're doing when people make and stuff you're saying everything's relative one thing in fact another thing and it takes time to realize all these relationships and the fact they have in each other and when you look at it you know on solar cookers and somewhere near 1800 so on the podium to the 3rd I think it was even commissioned a solar scientist to make solar cookers for the French Foreign Legion because they were out in the desert where they don't have any wood and now other touted is you know the future for 3rd world countries and you know except that they're too expensive Well now they're coming up with cheaper ways of doing all that well that's what we think about that all the time now and that was one of the things we were working here working on this there was a young graduate student by the name of Rick Stengel it has to be in real life seek a I think you can take a saw and begin at the 75th anniversary but he'd come I would come up with a mathematical formula that would let him take over a sheet of aluminum just a flat sheet and cut a spiral in it certainly with it certain size and it can be twisted in a form where each of those little.

[02:21:05]
Circular periods is tilted so it catches the difference or is if you can make something this big and it's flat. You know most of the solar cookers they make are the hard degree pieces of aluminum that are for them so what you're telling me is that you were not I witness to these things from all sorts of different ways and we all had contacted.

[02:21:31]
I guess it was one of the Heat organization. And I said How about I try to go over there and see if. We can make some over there where the people could make it so yes because yes the whole idea is to teach them how to do it right you don't know well and then to find out what works because they can actually test that you were actually an employee of E.F. for 30 years that were you know it was 30 years and so that half that time you decided to hang it up but be your own site and your nominee rep or your own engine if you were as much scientist as you were engineer I mean it melded together there and yes.

[02:22:15]
Tell me about your family we have not talked about it and we know you had children but you and Jane married in 1048 right and she's been your partner through everything because that right and the end you had how many children for 4 tell me Rick Rick was born in Cleveland it was before we moved back to Atlanta.

[02:22:37]
He said oldest obviously you know he's. He's our philosopher or. Whatever I mean very interesting history. When when we lived in Italy. Actually we've got 3 boys and girls Rick and yet we're going to get you know I want to let's talk about Rick while we were in Italy of he attended a university over there was something I mean you know leadership meeting or him I guess he was there 3 quarters and.

[02:23:18]
Had always sort of been interested in history I think but I can't it's very closely in there because we're tended an English speaking church. And we had a new interim pastor. Who was the sort of who grew historian. So than Pat the seminary in lieu of all. The stories that he spoke Greek and Latin he was a scholar increase in Latin and his relationship to wreck were well spent a lot.

[02:23:56]
Better already. So he was Rick come back to go to the seminary when you came back in and was very excited he did an internship it what was George a Baptist hospital and so on Chapel which he loved. But after that they had other requirements that the just was not interested in so he decided that he wouldn't.

[02:24:29]
Stay and maybe it's a hope to find a hospital so what it is very sort of he went on into the public. Service East with 3. Department I guess a couple of one. Children and Family Service know so he does work in the coming sector today right here in Atlanta tonight OK for town and did he marry right he married to a girl you know Susan OK and she is from Maine which was another interesting and she said he met in Salt Lake City wow he'd love to ski so naturally now and do they have any children yet they have 3 for each other in the next one on the line was paid right and where did he go to school what did she do for well what did she never went to college I did she for her.

[02:25:29]
For a while she was with an insurance company but then what's more interesting than being a mother in fact she and her husband married him and his name is is Bobby OK So Peggy about this is they have children they have 34 AM so I always responds in a daughter OK just like you do it right OK And then we have Jayden and we did a do for a career he went to and he didn't but tech so you mechanical engineering.

[02:26:04]
And they live in your Stone Mountain you know it's wife Lisa OK and they have no children but he's out of control. Yeah so he's our tech man yeah OK And then finally you have baby versus writing Bruce and another take my god yeah I didn't know what it is because it's not having can genetically He was near my.

[02:26:27]
Whole different world now from your time I'm sure yeah and it's did he marry you know to whom to Melissa Melissa and they have 2 children they have 2 children though so that gives you a past all of them and yeah I know his regiment. From all ages you know well the oldest going travel is.

[02:26:48]
Of around 32000 and then the youngest is 6 that's all a few yeah wow did that really 22 groups because Bruce married late and that is true we were born Yeah all the others were well that's kind of fun though if you have a baby you know it was in the family what about your sister Eleanor.

[02:27:10]
She will choose to live it when she lives in Denver and I suppose I don't know her and her husband. It was sort of a. Ideal of mine in a sense it was a ceramic engineer I was really happy that it's the way she and and. So you do stay in touch with.

[02:27:34]
J.T. when you look back his life made you do today you remembered things you hadn't thought about a long time you tell me but now looking back at this post retirement we know your tech career what's been the most says 5 things for you since you retired Well it has been a big SPAG because of that but in fact at the time I retire.

[02:27:59]
Mother was undergoing breast surgery. We were you know active in looking after her although she had an apartment later she told her house but. She had to follow later. Right but at the time I guess. Full time after I'd retire and I had done some consulting up until that time but.

[02:28:29]
The injury that she had she had a couple of head injuries. She couldn't live alone. So she moved in with us. Jane and I had been thinking Well just before that time. That. Her father was getting the when my mother. At the time I come to live with us.

[02:28:56]
In fact the year before we finish this room we had decided to head it because if they moved in with us you have more of a well and they would like the environment out here because the next year she did. How long did your mother live how old was so and yes and she was not going to almost 91 who she had a lot in mind but about your dad he had Parkinson's I wanted he lives he lived to 60 I was is going to say you lost him early on and you know that your mother had a lot of money they tell you she was like you have or genes Yeah but she was a sickly one and then they call it up and then she lasted longer Yeah so the you said it was a mixed bag so what you're saying is you've got lots more responsibility here area and such like that so it was a quite it's free it seemed that it might be but but did you realise any of the things you wanted to do well I had a continuing relationship with.

[02:30:00]
Italy this year when that interest and I have to we retire I had 3 different 2 months. With this company over there because they were looking at things that actually the reason we ran the sled test. Was to find out what happened had damage rained and so I had not fad.

[02:30:28]
Of water drought because the salad. And so they just complete to take the things out and civil be done a lot of that research has been important to general science for the development of the space program for all those things have been going on and so you were seen researcher in all of that we spread a lot of news yeah I did it and the nice way to say it we've had a lot of news and I think some of the most people know the space shuttle of course has to use.

[02:31:04]
This and they're made out of the silicon not ours. But based on research that you all were doing well one thing you know it's one of those things that is visible until you know what it does all these things it's transparent to radar and have you been able to develop any of the interests and hobbies that you were keen on mostly because of history that came out you always were interested in history and not in school no no and as an avocation on your own to do your own research that and as I understand no Biblical history is important to you doing a lot of reasons that's really just me and I'm sort of in play in him something he has instigated that right so you do a lot of reading.

[02:31:52]
History. A lot of reading of history so has a been fun to go through the yeah this is really a memory lane to read a number there and then anything is a good thing you didn't get caught the Berkeley it is what we always say for this yeah because you don't know what happened there but you know for us for Georgia speaking for Georgia to have been the most recent for our kids every search everybody's life would have been different it's about Absolutely yeah so it has been a wonderful thing for us to be able to call you a rambling wreck to write and to know you generated to more Ramle Rex That's right and more than likely.

[02:32:31]
Out of all those grandchildren you know for which you may get some more but I just never been more than the computer wire everyone just back to maybe they won't be scientists like you or just but they can be doing other things but we thank you for giving us all your time today and thank you Marian it's been a pleasure to get to know you and to hear your remarkable story where you kind of certain Listen.

[02:32:56]
We're delighted thank you so much thank you.