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We treat material not as a limitation
it's more like a jump off point into our

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discussion so very often folks
do things around a material but

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they might do practices that reach beyond
it so it seem to day that touch on.

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Craft and fibers but my Ph beyond dolls
helping us to explore this beyond

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us is really a big leap there comes from
all the right places so she has a Ph D.

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in computer science but has a background
from Boulder and has got a better in

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theater and before that and came out
of Boulder and into MIT Media Lab.

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As the inventor of the Leap Pad and

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continuing that work in the Halo
group at MIT She worked

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with all the right people she published
with MS Resnick just make up by.

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I'm it's only talked about today and
she produced all the right people I just

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talked to she creates Fantastics humans
hung up on of us and is one of them and.

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It's another amazing soon that came
out of group by David Mehlis So

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it's great to see that there's so much
connections between pc's to us because

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we had some of them here already and
some of us connected to them already but

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also on the level of the faculty and
it's great to have her back here.

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I met her in a conference I forgot the
year when we were struggling and trying to

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push or we're recording a piece in the end
we both lost you know it is because

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I was doing this both left and mighty but
it was a good moment to connect but

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it's been a while so it's great to
have her back and to catch up and

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see what you'll be doing ever since and
see what hand in the machine

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means to her so please work on with me
they obviously teachers it thank you.

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Michael and thank you all for.

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For coming today it's a treat to be
at such a fantastic institution so

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many rich connections here to
all sorts of different parts so

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today I'm on a talk about
really about craft and

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craftsmanship that's going to
be kind of the focus of my X.

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exploration and discussion and
so I'll just dive right in.

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So I wanted to give you some context for
me I guess and for

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where I'm coming from in kind of
the foundation of my career so

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I grew up in a really rural area this is
a snapshot of the house I grew up and

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it's a house there on the left.

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So yeah kind of how in the middle of
nowhere which was a wonderful and

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really interesting place to grow up.

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One of the things that characterise
this place was a place that was kind of

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challenging to make a living there so

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what do you do when you live
in the middle of nowhere so

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my family's answered that question is
that you work as a craftsperson So

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my mom and dad together collaboratively
starting from when I was a kid.

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Founded a furniture making business
where they design and build fine for

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nature so
this is one of their recent pieces but

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but I wanted to give you this context for
a few reasons one I just love to

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celebrate their work because I
think it's awesome so they've been

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running this business kind of having
this practice for about forty years now.

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And they're still at it it's a small
studio and they hand build furniture.

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And yeah it's really marvelous and

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so I I really grew up in
mashed in craft in the world.

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Of design and
also the work of like hand production and

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care surrounded kind of by tools and
art supplies and all of that so.

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So this is just a big part
of who I am I feel like and

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kind of what my history is and
what I'm drawn to and feel connected

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OK so getting more to the heart of the
matter I wanted to start by talking about.

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What I have done now professionally for
the past twenty years or so

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fifteen years so I think I think
of my the professional work that

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I do now is really starting in graduate
school so I was in graduate school.

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I connected what had been up until then
really two separate strains of my life and

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my interests so one was an interest
in science and technology and

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mathematics and the other was an interest
in art and design and craft and

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these that seemed kind of very
separate kind of things to me but

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I arrived in graduate school to study
computer science really intending and

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expecting to be a fairly traditional
computer scientist I figured I would

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be a software engineer but
there I discovered it was actually that

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there were communities of people who were
kind of interim grading work from art and

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design and craft and the work worlds
of engineering and mathematics and

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science so
one particularly revel atory moment for

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me in graduate school was learning how
to work with and build electronics so

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that was just a delight so
learning essentially a craft that kind of

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connected to what I was studying computer
science that was fantastic I have to.

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I remain forever grateful
to a wonderful kind of

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colleague of mine no want to illumine
is a who essentially kind of

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taught me everything I know about
electronics He was awesome.

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The other revelation for
me in graduate school was stumbling upon.

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Completely in chanting body
of materials in particular

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fabrics and threads that were made.

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Made out of metal so
constructed out of metal and of course I.

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I was also just learning how to
work with electronics and and

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it was seemed marvelous to me that
you could kind of combine these

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universes you could use these gorgeous
kind of decorative threads and

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fabrics as a lector coal objects and

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you could construct electronics on
textiles so I became infatuated with this

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discipline of electronic textiles and
began to do work in that space.

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So.

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So my approach was to initially explore
the space for myself so I built

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a lot of garments and other textiles
just kind of playing with techniques and

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materials that you could use to actually
mash up the world of electronics and

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textiles so that was that initial approach
was kind of explore the space for

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myself as a designer engineer and
practitioner so this is

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one example kind of early project that
I made a series of kind of garments and

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other things that were had L.E.D.
displays stitched into them that you could

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program and do these kind of animating
mathematical patterns and shapes on.

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But I was also interested then
in sharing my experience of this

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rich kind of beautiful new domain with
other people so the next step for

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me was kind of developing a set of tools
to make this domain accessible and

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engaging to others and so that's took
the form of creating a construction kit.

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Of so of all computers and Sobel sensors
and output device where you see here is.

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A little so of all computers so there's
a tiny microcontroller in the red blob

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in the center there and each of
the pedals in that flower shape could be

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used to control something like a sensor or
a light or a motor.

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So I built this kit and

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began kind of introducing other
people to computing and electronics

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through this medium of electronic
textiles that I had found so in chanting.

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That kit then I collaborated
with some friends and

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colleagues at Spark Fun electronics
a small company then in Boulder to create

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a commercial version of the kit which
came out in two thousand and seven so

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waxed October was our ten ten year
anniversary which is pretty cool so

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this is the commercial version of the kit
called the lily pad we know you see there

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a little sold Sobel computer and
then different sensors and at Leidy's and

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a little battery along with
a spool of conduct and

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so what has been kind of
the most remarkable and

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fun part of this process for
me has really been then

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seeing what other people all
did with with the kit So

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here here's a snapshot of just a couple
of my favorite projects over the years.

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Yeah linger there but
yeah you can find more

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documentation of all of these projects on
line each of them is just really lovely.

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I was then as Michael mentioned
fortunate enough to go to

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MIT after I finished graduate
school where I founded

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a group called High Low tech kind of and
the.

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Impetus for the group was to
kind of explore similar and

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other integrations of arts and
technology design and craft and

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to also kind of hopefully make
those integrations accessible and

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engaging to lots of other people and
to think about taking the kind of

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generalizing this approach to it have
an impact I'm changing both the culture

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of technology and kind of technology
spaces and also the culture of art and

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design so trying to bring those worlds
together and disrupt kind of cultural

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patterns that seemed more
accidental then really fundamental.

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So I'm not going to go into detail about
the work that I did at high low tech but

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I will just say I love this work so much
as Michael alluded to I have the great for

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fortune of working with just like
amazingly brilliant wonderful people and

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their work I'm so proud of.

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In the amort of the work that my students
did that we worked on together while I

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was there so here's a snapshot just
showing a handful of our projects.

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OK so what I wanted to spend the bulk
of my talk today talking about

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is my experiences and explorations really
since I've left MIT in particular.

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Set of very new work that that I've been
working on maybe just for the past year or

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so that feels like it's
still really in its infancy.

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And I'm excited to have a discussion with
you about it so this is kind of part two.

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And part two I think of in certain ways as

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craftsmanship as like a way of life so
I had.

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Up until I left M.I.T..

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I had thought of myself in
certain ways as a crafts person.

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In many ways that identity that part
of my life was subsumed by other so

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I was also an academic I was
a researcher I was a scientist.

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But since I've left my academic position
now I'm kind of only a craftsperson

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I mean that's not entirely tiredly
true but that's one way to look at it.

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So I've been thinking about well what
does that mean to be a craft person.

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To me it has many facets so
the first is an economic

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one that means to me that like my
parents before me I earn my living

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as a craftsperson and I there are lots
of different ways to structure your

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life as a cross person I think many kind
of honorable interesting paths but for

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me the most straightforward and kind
of honorable one is a simple one which

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is like I make stuff and I sell it to you
so I like I make goods and you pay me for

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them and that is like the foundation
upon which I hope to build my life so.

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That has many.

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That imposes upon you certain constraints
and limitations but I will talk

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about those later but there is so there's
an economic aspect to be an craftsperson.

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There's an ascetic one.

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So for me what it has been the driving
force of a lot of my work is just.

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I love beautiful things I'm
drawn to beautiful things.

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I I I want to reinvigorate and

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and prioritize kind of the role that
beauty plays in all of our lives I think

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that's a worthwhile and
important part of being a person so

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I embrace like beauty as an end in and
of itself

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there's an intellectual aspect so
I think it's important that.

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For me it at least and I think for almost
anyone that your your work is not only.

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Not only kind of put pleasing
to the eye but also engaging and

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pleasing to the mind and for
me that means that I hope that some part

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of my practice is always exploring
territory that hasn't been explored before

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and finally I think craft is a physical
engagement I mean part of what I love

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about craft is making stuff
with my hands with my

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body that it's not purely an intellectual
activity that it always engages the body

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so that's to me what it
means to be a crafts person.

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This has taken the form
a new kind of design and

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craft firm that I've started
called Rural digital.

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I should mention in honor of the fact
that I have returned to my home state of

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New Mexico so I'm not living quite as in
the middle of nowhere nowhere as I grew up

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but I have returned in some sense
to my rural roots and so hence.

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So I wanted to focus on a project that
I've been working on for about the past.

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Year or so like I mentioned So
this project started with a course that I

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taught at a local maker
space in New Mexico

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around computational design and
fashion so thinking about computation.

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Design kind of fabrication and
the body and

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this was hard to a group of people who
didn't have any particular experience in

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those areas and so
we started with some simple examples and.

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Where I began kind of is
I began with the work of

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the great artist in the space so
Lou it was actually work kind of predates.

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Computers and in certain ways.

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This is but it's very algorithmic very
conceptually connected to algorithms and

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math and so on so this is one of his
pieces this is a page of text and

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here he is circled all
occurences of ifs ands or

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buts on the page and connected them with
straight lines so that's that's the piece.

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If you're familiar with his work he's done
just well he's a wonderful artist but

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there are very similar architectural
pieces that he's worked on kind of

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connecting architectural elements of
a room with string and so on anyway so

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he's used this as a starting out point and
I built some simple software that let you

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kind of place dots and
then kind of connected them with winds and

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you could move stuff around and kind of
choose the pattern that you liked and

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then I made some physical examples as well
so the like a laptop bag that I made just

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points in lines connected together so

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earrings are fun using the same.

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Set of simple algorithms and so.

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One of the things that I found kind of
most compelling in chanting about this

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early set of explorations was
actually just the materials.

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Of the materials that you are that you can
work with in the space of this is dyed

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wood veneer so
both both of these are made out of kind of

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dyed would be near here it's
applied to a sheet of felt.

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And here it's simply laser I should say
that both of these are kind of laser cut

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so the material aspect
the ways in which I could use

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the computational process
computation plus fabrication but

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but still engaged kind of a rich set of
physical materials was really interesting

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so that was the starting starting point
for some of these Explorer explorations.

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I then kind of took that
starting point and.

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Started to work on a whole whole series
that were essentially based about based

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around compositions that I could make with
these really simple funded fundamental

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geometric shapes namely circles and

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lines so I just started playing around
with ways that you could combine circles

216
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I was particularly inspired by
the designs of Mari MECO So

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a wonderful textile design firm
one of their textile patterns.

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Where.

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00:18:59,092 --> 00:19:03,822
Their work is very simple or an organic

220
00:19:03,822 --> 00:19:08,641
they work with these like simple
organic shapes just really resonated.

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So the first thing that I wanted
to do was just draw circles that

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like were irregular circles a really
simple thing to do computationally and

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it's easy to write a script that
can draw kind of irregular circles.

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Then the next thing I did would just play
with like layering irregular circles

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seem to me kind of pleasing designs.

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Once you have of course
the software written it's really

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00:19:39,559 --> 00:19:42,669
permutations of this basic basic thing.

228
00:19:44,179 --> 00:19:49,479
And then here again are laser cut
versions of these layered circles

229
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these are cut again in
the died kind of wood near and

230
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then gold leather the.

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Next step was kind of adding in
that was a kind of just circles

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the next step was adding in line and

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so I started to just make a whole bunch
of different combinations of circles and

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lines all family a little like Point
animal creatures made out of circles or

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here a couple of those expire and
then turning those into objects so

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here's a pair of earrings again cut
out of the dyed wood when you're black

237
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then playing with other material so
these are.

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Some of those figures.

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Out of stainless steel so
a different fabrication process so

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essentially almost like a photographic
process to pursue birth and

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going back to the body where I
tend to kind of always return T.

242
00:21:00,767 --> 00:21:06,307
shirts and then they start to play
with compositions of these structures

243
00:21:06,307 --> 00:21:13,327
into a larger design so this is just
laser cut from paper from black paper

244
00:21:17,717 --> 00:21:20,916
this is laser cut from white paper and

245
00:21:20,916 --> 00:21:26,327
the white does a wonderful thing
of reminding you of lace and

246
00:21:26,327 --> 00:21:30,306
a craft traditions of lace which
I've always been really attracted to

247
00:21:34,426 --> 00:21:37,666
here this is laser cut paper or

248
00:21:37,666 --> 00:21:42,115
in a couple of layers like a handmade
paper that then I've been.

249
00:21:43,296 --> 00:21:47,526
Paint with different dials and
water colors again kind of bringing

250
00:21:47,526 --> 00:21:51,236
the role of the hand and a bra back
into constructing these objects.

251
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Here playing with different materials
again this is a laser cut out of Thai Rak.

252
00:22:01,809 --> 00:22:07,479
Which is a an interesting material in
large part because it can withstand all

253
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sorts of abuse so this is a curtain
that has been outside on my patio for

254
00:22:14,129 --> 00:22:19,719
the last I don't know four months or
for five months or so so

255
00:22:19,719 --> 00:22:25,018
kind of makes this going to enables you
to bring this kind that these kind is and

256
00:22:25,018 --> 00:22:32,479
all sorts of environments and
speak and then this is a felt curtain.

257
00:22:33,809 --> 00:22:36,059
Two layers of white felt

258
00:22:43,379 --> 00:22:43,930
or more.

259
00:22:49,630 --> 00:22:51,880
More recently I've kind of come back to.

260
00:22:53,360 --> 00:22:58,360
The simple circle again so
I've found myself as I've made

261
00:22:58,360 --> 00:23:03,369
more of these pieces wanting to actually
take away more and more of the complexity

262
00:23:03,369 --> 00:23:08,100
like the most interesting part I
think is the negative space and

263
00:23:08,100 --> 00:23:11,720
kind of delicate lace like qualities so
initially I thought.

264
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The most complex shapes and
forms were would be the most exciting or

265
00:23:19,190 --> 00:23:21,899
compelling but gradually just
kind of taking away more and

266
00:23:21,899 --> 00:23:25,609
more kind of come back around to just
the simple circle again as being.

267
00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:33,999
Compelling and interesting
algorithmically generated drawings.

268
00:23:42,169 --> 00:23:47,739
And then I have been working on a series
of rugs actually so this is a again laser

269
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cut felt multiple layers of it kind
of it here together to make rugs

270
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so that's that is a little bit
of what I've been working on for

271
00:24:03,809 --> 00:24:08,079
the past year or so again feels like
a project kind of in its infancy.

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00:24:09,289 --> 00:24:12,969
When But
it's been a delightful exploration for

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me I now wanted to step back and
just talk a bit about.

274
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Reflects on like.

275
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The experience of trying to be
a crafts person who works with.

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00:24:25,499 --> 00:24:28,688
Computation who works with fabrication and

277
00:24:28,688 --> 00:24:31,419
also Also with more kind
of traditional craft.

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The first thing I want to talk
a bit about is complexity so

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00:24:37,290 --> 00:24:41,039
if you're familiar with the universe
of computational design.

280
00:24:43,260 --> 00:24:50,610
Right now it's a really vibrant super
interesting exciting field particularly

281
00:24:50,610 --> 00:24:54,890
I would say in architecture and in fashion
like just amazing stuff is happening.

282
00:24:56,240 --> 00:25:01,009
But most of what you see is
like spectacularly complex and

283
00:25:01,009 --> 00:25:03,589
this work is gorgeous like so
this is a piece

284
00:25:03,589 --> 00:25:08,470
that is done by one my former MIT
colleagues Oxman She's awesome so

285
00:25:08,470 --> 00:25:11,320
he should know her work if you're
interested in the space she's great.

286
00:25:12,410 --> 00:25:18,450
So so and she is a really I think
a wonderful example of the work.

287
00:25:20,090 --> 00:25:26,860
That is happening in this space
again incredibly rich complex

288
00:25:26,860 --> 00:25:32,279
very sophisticated algorithms
tend to drive the design.

289
00:25:35,540 --> 00:25:39,280
But one of the things that has
motivated my own explorations.

290
00:25:40,690 --> 00:25:46,710
Is thinking that well the work that
is really driven by a kind of new and

291
00:25:46,710 --> 00:25:50,110
very sophisticated kind
of complex computation.

292
00:25:51,150 --> 00:25:58,070
Is wonderful that work is wonderful
There's a lot of space for much simpler

293
00:25:58,070 --> 00:26:03,040
explorations of computer so
this is a piece by.

294
00:26:04,651 --> 00:26:09,461
One of the pioneers of computer art so
awesome Hungary an artist

295
00:26:09,461 --> 00:26:14,430
this is a piece of hers from
the late sixty's this is a computer

296
00:26:14,430 --> 00:26:19,281
generated drawing that then
is fabricated with an X.-Y.

297
00:26:19,281 --> 00:26:23,220
plotter So a essentially like
a pen that draws out kind of

298
00:26:23,220 --> 00:26:28,201
automatically draws out her design so her
work Also I encourage you to check out so.

299
00:26:29,430 --> 00:26:33,790
As tends to happen the women who are
pioneers in these field tend to kind of

300
00:26:33,790 --> 00:26:37,651
disappear into the shadows over time and
the men who gained prominence but

301
00:26:37,651 --> 00:26:41,131
actually many of like
the most interesting.

302
00:26:42,430 --> 00:26:45,380
Early artists who worked with
computers were women and

303
00:26:45,380 --> 00:26:51,061
he was she's one of the pioneers and
just a beautiful body of work that you

304
00:26:51,061 --> 00:26:56,291
can that you can explore actually a lot of
this is online and really well documented

305
00:26:56,291 --> 00:27:01,391
documented but one of the things that I
find striking when I look at this work and

306
00:27:01,391 --> 00:27:05,061
others from the time period
is how like resin and

307
00:27:05,061 --> 00:27:07,690
timely it feels like this is a space that.

308
00:27:08,830 --> 00:27:13,761
Hasn't been fully explored yet
there's I think.

309
00:27:15,830 --> 00:27:18,660
While the this work is is striking and

310
00:27:18,660 --> 00:27:23,611
gorgeous so is this in its own way so
a much much simpler.

311
00:27:25,050 --> 00:27:27,401
Algorithmically but still really rich and.

312
00:27:29,709 --> 00:27:31,249
There's another reason that I.

313
00:27:32,339 --> 00:27:35,939
Advocate for
kind of filling out the landscape of

314
00:27:35,939 --> 00:27:40,449
white computational complexity here and
that is I think that.

315
00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:47,499
Computational design and fabrication
can be a tremendously powerful and

316
00:27:47,499 --> 00:27:51,959
of pathway for different people
into kind of learning about our

317
00:27:51,959 --> 00:27:57,499
computational world so
this is a project that I'm for.

318
00:27:58,659 --> 00:28:03,799
That I worked on with my former
student a wonderful wonderful

319
00:28:03,799 --> 00:28:09,058
student Jennifer Jacobs and she developed
a programming tool that let kids

320
00:28:09,058 --> 00:28:14,419
combine elements of kind of freehand
drawing with writing programs and

321
00:28:14,419 --> 00:28:19,069
this is a snapshot from a workshop that
she taught where kids use that tool to

322
00:28:19,069 --> 00:28:22,108
create their own drawings and
then screen printed kind of T.

323
00:28:22,108 --> 00:28:27,579
shirts with those designs and what I want
to say about this I guess is just this is

324
00:28:27,579 --> 00:28:33,749
Wasn't this isn't like a computationally
super sophisticated or complex design but

325
00:28:33,749 --> 00:28:38,499
it's like it's gorgeous it's great it's
gorgeous and it was something that this.

326
00:28:39,798 --> 00:28:42,629
This kid was like felt
really proud about and

327
00:28:42,629 --> 00:28:47,659
really engaged in and interested about so
so we should be exploring

328
00:28:47,659 --> 00:28:51,209
the whole landscape of possibilities and
computational design and

329
00:28:51,209 --> 00:28:56,059
I just think there's a ton of space
here that hasn't been explored so yeah

330
00:28:59,809 --> 00:29:04,569
so the other thing I wanted to talk
about is the relationships between like.

331
00:29:05,639 --> 00:29:11,349
Computation and craft in particular
the relationships between kind of

332
00:29:11,349 --> 00:29:16,858
automated production and hand
production that happen in these spaces.

333
00:29:18,919 --> 00:29:19,578
So.

334
00:29:20,699 --> 00:29:25,839
Here I think there's a very interesting
kind of continuum that's possible

335
00:29:25,839 --> 00:29:31,218
when you work in computational
design in in many ways I think.

336
00:29:32,229 --> 00:29:37,419
The ideal that is articulated and
perhaps most like widely recognized and

337
00:29:37,419 --> 00:29:42,008
thought about is an ideal well where all
of the design happens on the computer

338
00:29:42,008 --> 00:29:44,819
all of the design kind of happens
in the design of the algorithm or

339
00:29:44,819 --> 00:29:49,829
the software and then the physical are
the production of the physical artifact

340
00:29:49,829 --> 00:29:53,939
is like totally automated and there's
really wonderful work in that space so

341
00:29:53,939 --> 00:29:58,799
near he who I mentioned earlier her
work and it has that character but

342
00:29:58,799 --> 00:30:01,229
also one of my favorite design teams.

343
00:30:03,309 --> 00:30:07,039
Nervous of their work and
I would say also follows that paradigm so

344
00:30:07,039 --> 00:30:12,209
their design the kind of creative
work is entirely on the computer and

345
00:30:12,209 --> 00:30:14,219
then the production is fully automated.

346
00:30:15,429 --> 00:30:18,768
Just stop for a moment and explain this
piece because it's really delightful So

347
00:30:18,768 --> 00:30:20,529
this is a three D.

348
00:30:20,529 --> 00:30:25,029
printed dress so
in the way that this was made.

349
00:30:26,169 --> 00:30:30,729
Is there software lets you
take a scan of a body and

350
00:30:30,729 --> 00:30:36,649
then well you can kind of create
a dress that's made out of these

351
00:30:36,649 --> 00:30:41,749
interlocking kind of like
the ball interlocking three D.

352
00:30:41,749 --> 00:30:44,829
printed pieces I should say
it's made out of hard plastic.

353
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:53,960
This fluid fabric like structure but
that's made out of hard fabric and

354
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:59,309
their computational software computational
model accounts for not only the shape and

355
00:30:59,309 --> 00:31:03,260
design of the dress but also the mechanics
of how the thing needs to like fold and

356
00:31:03,260 --> 00:31:06,300
bend to like actually work as a fabric.

357
00:31:07,340 --> 00:31:11,369
So you you design it then
this is like a huge thing

358
00:31:11,369 --> 00:31:14,310
body size thing how do
you like print it so

359
00:31:14,310 --> 00:31:18,630
the other thing that their software can do
that's totally delightful is like you can

360
00:31:18,630 --> 00:31:23,870
then crunch up that dress like
computationally into like a small volume

361
00:31:23,870 --> 00:31:28,690
it isn't printed and then you kind of take
it out of the country and you have your.

362
00:31:29,889 --> 00:31:33,400
So you can see just a gorgeous
video of this whole process online

363
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:38,280
there's like kind of amazing and
spectacular So

364
00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:43,490
that is some of their work but again
the physical construction is entirely

365
00:31:43,490 --> 00:31:46,869
out of meat it's just three printed
comes out of the printer and you're done

366
00:31:50,799 --> 00:31:58,599
another designer who I really admire is
Travis Fitch he's in this mode as well so

367
00:31:58,599 --> 00:32:03,029
he designs these mathematical
structures entirely on screen and

368
00:32:03,029 --> 00:32:06,479
then they're printed in different
materials this is a ceramic.

369
00:32:07,589 --> 00:32:08,479
Three D.
printer so

370
00:32:08,479 --> 00:32:10,428
one of the wonderful things about three D.

371
00:32:10,428 --> 00:32:11,288
printing is or.

372
00:32:12,638 --> 00:32:16,989
Were able to work with like an ever
expanding set of materials including like

373
00:32:16,989 --> 00:32:20,939
ceramics and saw flexible materials and
tools with all sorts of different colors.

374
00:32:22,458 --> 00:32:28,089
But but yeah his work is really
wonderful she mentioned he also works

375
00:32:28,089 --> 00:32:32,288
with the design collective called
three As for that does gorgeous like.

376
00:32:33,379 --> 00:32:36,178
Fashion Design in this space so
they're also great.

377
00:32:37,748 --> 00:32:42,349
But but these two examples again
there's no like work of the head

378
00:32:44,018 --> 00:32:46,908
we could argue about whether like
computer work is work of the hand but

379
00:32:46,908 --> 00:32:50,408
for my purposes we'll call
it more intellectual than.

380
00:32:52,608 --> 00:32:57,519
But there are other models that
are also really really successful and

381
00:32:57,519 --> 00:33:02,058
really present and I would say in many
ways increasingly present in this space

382
00:33:02,058 --> 00:33:03,619
and it gives me hope for a kind of.

383
00:33:05,098 --> 00:33:08,378
For craft in the in the upcoming.

384
00:33:09,779 --> 00:33:12,569
Upcoming years so
this is a beautiful piece by.

385
00:33:15,139 --> 00:33:17,938
Who I worked with when he was a Ph D.

386
00:33:17,938 --> 00:33:21,489
student at MIT He is now a professor.

387
00:33:24,139 --> 00:33:29,629
At Hebrew you National University
in Jerusalem this is

388
00:33:29,629 --> 00:33:33,599
a set of bases and

389
00:33:33,599 --> 00:33:38,628
what he did here was he built
a whole series of these bases

390
00:33:38,628 --> 00:33:43,918
using traditional kind of
techniques from pottery.

391
00:33:45,179 --> 00:33:49,328
Or slip cast and
then hand kind of glazed so all of

392
00:33:49,328 --> 00:33:53,328
the construction of the bases was done by
hand he then took several of the bases and

393
00:33:53,328 --> 00:33:56,769
like intentionally broke them and
then using.

394
00:33:58,039 --> 00:34:03,229
Computational to computational
techniques he says he recreated

395
00:34:03,229 --> 00:34:07,589
the broken pieces in the three D.

396
00:34:07,589 --> 00:34:09,239
printed lattice and

397
00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:14,439
that's what you see kind of filling in
the spaces in the two forms on the left.

398
00:34:15,998 --> 00:34:21,339
So here there are a few things going
on but one is a just really interesting

399
00:34:21,339 --> 00:34:26,039
I think integration of computational and
the handmade But the other thing

400
00:34:26,039 --> 00:34:30,259
that he's playing with is the notion
of like uniqueness So one thing that.

401
00:34:32,589 --> 00:34:38,219
Is compelling often about handmade objects
is that they're unique one of a kind like

402
00:34:38,219 --> 00:34:43,418
you know that someone's kind of individual
labor went into producing them and

403
00:34:43,418 --> 00:34:47,469
that's not generally two
of fabricated objects

404
00:34:47,469 --> 00:34:51,748
the notion is you can have an infinite
kind of production run of them but

405
00:34:51,748 --> 00:34:55,979
here even though the pieces are fabricated
they're kind of necessarily constrained

406
00:34:55,979 --> 00:35:00,529
to be unique because they replicate
kind of the broken pieces of the vase.

407
00:35:02,029 --> 00:35:03,388
So playing around with that.

408
00:35:04,819 --> 00:35:06,268
Here's a more recent piece.

409
00:35:07,319 --> 00:35:11,449
From meets Lab This is a collaboration
with one of his students.

410
00:35:13,628 --> 00:35:17,179
And here they did a series
of pieces exploring.

411
00:35:18,248 --> 00:35:23,109
Joinery and furniture making So
here the idea is you

412
00:35:23,109 --> 00:35:28,228
design a piece of furniture and
you can take the joints or

413
00:35:28,228 --> 00:35:31,669
any of the joints in your piece of
furniture and instead of making that by

414
00:35:31,669 --> 00:35:36,688
hand using woodworking techniques
you can kind of put the design

415
00:35:36,688 --> 00:35:40,828
into the into your into their software and
it will generate these three D.

416
00:35:40,828 --> 00:35:44,659
printed will and of joints for
you and then you can

417
00:35:44,659 --> 00:35:48,799
put the pieces back together with
a combination of wood and these three D.

418
00:35:48,799 --> 00:35:52,909
printed parts in a funny
way this actually.

419
00:35:54,148 --> 00:35:59,339
Alleviates some of the the difficulty
in making furniture by

420
00:35:59,339 --> 00:36:04,418
hand because the hardest part in making
for sure by hand is the joinery So

421
00:36:04,418 --> 00:36:08,748
this can make your joinery
task simpler while also

422
00:36:08,748 --> 00:36:13,089
adding this kind of beautiful
kind of fabricated element lovely

423
00:36:14,140 --> 00:36:19,359
problem project coming up
another person whose work.

424
00:36:21,249 --> 00:36:25,989
Just beautifully integrates
fabrication and computation and

425
00:36:25,989 --> 00:36:29,469
craft is the fashion designer Iris and
her pen.

426
00:36:30,559 --> 00:36:35,039
She's just amazing so
these are photographs from her actually

427
00:36:35,039 --> 00:36:40,039
spring twenty eight hundred collection so
on the left is a dress that's made out

428
00:36:40,039 --> 00:36:44,669
of laser cut pieces and on the right
is addressed it's made out of three D.

429
00:36:44,669 --> 00:36:49,589
printed to pieces but
in both of these cases Kay says

430
00:36:49,589 --> 00:36:53,718
it's not as though like she laser cut some
fabric and called it a day or she three D.

431
00:36:53,718 --> 00:36:57,249
printed address and called it a day so
on the left what she did.

432
00:36:58,349 --> 00:37:00,898
Is she laser cut a structure.

433
00:37:02,328 --> 00:37:05,629
But instead of doing what you would
normally do with a laser cut structure

434
00:37:05,629 --> 00:37:12,278
which is take the whole.

435
00:37:15,418 --> 00:37:20,850
And each kind of what would
normally need from a laser cut.

436
00:37:22,939 --> 00:37:29,039
Out of Billy's or cutter and
it here to this sheer backing fabric so

437
00:37:29,039 --> 00:37:33,118
this is kind of like
the anti lace lace dress.

438
00:37:35,879 --> 00:37:40,839
Line You can actually there's
a lovely video that shows the process

439
00:37:40,839 --> 00:37:41,478
through which.

440
00:37:42,558 --> 00:37:45,909
These garments were made the garment
on the right was made through

441
00:37:45,909 --> 00:37:50,579
a similar process so
here like the fin like shapes are three D.

442
00:37:50,579 --> 00:37:55,658
printed but then they're painstakingly
kind of it here to this.

443
00:37:58,059 --> 00:38:04,709
Lucent textile backing So a really lovely
combination of kind of new technology.

444
00:38:05,799 --> 00:38:10,529
Fabrication and
computation with old old traditions

445
00:38:10,529 --> 00:38:15,818
of kind of could cure
hand work in fashion and

446
00:38:15,818 --> 00:38:20,079
I would also like to say about her
work is that it keeps getting more and

447
00:38:20,079 --> 00:38:24,798
more interesting so one of the thing
that's things that's just really marvelous

448
00:38:24,798 --> 00:38:29,598
about this space is so young and
kind of she started out one of the first

449
00:38:29,598 --> 00:38:32,878
projects that she did that got a lot of
attention as she made like a three D.

450
00:38:32,878 --> 00:38:36,558
printed dress and she's one of the first
people to do that it was like three D.

451
00:38:36,558 --> 00:38:39,609
printed structure is really cool and
beautiful and striking.

452
00:38:40,969 --> 00:38:45,649
But to my mind kind of
as her work evolves and

453
00:38:45,649 --> 00:38:50,729
she integrates more traditions
from craft like the work is

454
00:38:50,729 --> 00:38:53,058
more compelling and
rich and interesting so.

455
00:38:54,689 --> 00:38:59,749
Yeah just a wonderful wonderful designer.

456
00:39:00,929 --> 00:39:02,508
So with that I will.

457
00:39:03,659 --> 00:39:05,578
Often say thank you very much for

458
00:39:05,578 --> 00:39:09,538
your attention and I look forward to
talking about all of this more Thank you.

459
00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:39,030
You're going to crack you for
your analysis with.

460
00:39:40,470 --> 00:39:40,970
This.

461
00:39:43,500 --> 00:39:44,770
We're here.

462
00:39:47,489 --> 00:39:51,780
We're in this is not necessarily you know.

463
00:39:53,240 --> 00:39:53,740
It's.

464
00:39:55,599 --> 00:40:00,540
Such an interesting question
I was getting to back into.

465
00:40:02,909 --> 00:40:04,919
It deserves the.

466
00:40:06,139 --> 00:40:06,639
Crown.

467
00:40:08,529 --> 00:40:09,029
And there's.

468
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:12,570
A wonderful intellectual work.

469
00:40:14,959 --> 00:40:16,990
By the resignation.

470
00:40:18,020 --> 00:40:22,110
Whole book kind of on this topic that's
magnificent not all look it up but.

471
00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:24,759
And get back to about that but.

472
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:32,490
I will I will answer
a question part by saying and

473
00:40:32,490 --> 00:40:35,919
this seems like a detour but
I think it's very related is that

474
00:40:35,919 --> 00:40:38,620
one of the another issue that
I almost kind of brought up

475
00:40:38,620 --> 00:40:42,260
as an explicit discussion topic is how
you document your work in the space.

476
00:40:43,310 --> 00:40:45,289
And a lot of.

477
00:40:46,340 --> 00:40:50,560
What is currently kind of
missing from my documentation

478
00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:54,060
is the software side right so so.

479
00:40:55,499 --> 00:40:58,960
And that is very important and
interesting topic and

480
00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:04,190
it is not necessarily it doesn't
happen by itself what you often want

481
00:41:04,190 --> 00:41:10,510
to see is like animation of
the algorithm kind of working right and

482
00:41:10,510 --> 00:41:16,660
animation of the structure kind
of growing or being formed and

483
00:41:16,660 --> 00:41:21,380
that documentation requires thought and

484
00:41:21,380 --> 00:41:25,200
effort in and of itself and
I think to me that is.

485
00:41:26,219 --> 00:41:29,800
That feels related to your question
slightly different point but

486
00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:33,109
it reminds me that the software
is a thing in and of a.

487
00:41:33,109 --> 00:41:38,830
Self that plays a tremendously important
role in this entire process and

488
00:41:38,830 --> 00:41:44,440
I am in my own work figuring
figuring that out still in the phase

489
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:50,330
of the figuring that out so yeah like what
kind of window into the software process

490
00:41:50,330 --> 00:41:54,669
do I want to provide and what does that
look like and so on and so forth so yeah

491
00:41:54,669 --> 00:42:04,669
thanks.

492
00:42:08,819 --> 00:42:11,229
Very much for your were very nice.

493
00:42:12,819 --> 00:42:16,719
You really were saying how can we just.

494
00:42:17,828 --> 00:42:23,899
Say no we're not ready for
now we're going to.

495
00:42:25,409 --> 00:42:27,968
Get this Saturday seen very good.

496
00:42:29,189 --> 00:42:32,829
Grades you know anything in
her you know you're really

497
00:42:32,829 --> 00:42:36,069
going to be great you know when you have.

498
00:42:39,768 --> 00:42:43,878
A few things one I would say to some
extent that decorative objects are.

499
00:42:45,369 --> 00:42:46,299
If not exactly.

500
00:42:48,029 --> 00:42:52,499
We could have an argument about what to
what extent they are not functional so one

501
00:42:52,499 --> 00:42:57,379
of the things that I think is interesting
along those lines is that jewelry for

502
00:42:57,379 --> 00:43:02,469
example requires a lot of user testing
before had deployed in the world so

503
00:43:02,469 --> 00:43:06,708
one of the things that I learned
is like the lovely I became so

504
00:43:06,708 --> 00:43:11,619
in chanted with a kind of wood veneer
as like a material it totally breaks so

505
00:43:11,619 --> 00:43:15,079
like you could where I make it made
a bunch of jewelry out of wood veneer and

506
00:43:15,079 --> 00:43:17,388
you could wear it for like a month or
two and then it would break.

507
00:43:18,708 --> 00:43:21,969
So that doesn't exactly get your point but
I feel like there's an interesting kernel

508
00:43:21,969 --> 00:43:26,999
there about kind of stuff perhaps
functionality isn't quite the right

509
00:43:26,999 --> 00:43:32,069
distinction that stuff that you use
in your everyday life and the and

510
00:43:32,069 --> 00:43:36,539
the demands that that places
upon kind of craftsmanship So

511
00:43:36,539 --> 00:43:40,079
there's I think there are interesting
issues there that have so

512
00:43:40,079 --> 00:43:44,869
far been a big part of my practice and
I guess stepping back I would say that for

513
00:43:44,869 --> 00:43:48,009
me that has been the more
interesting distinction perhaps

514
00:43:48,009 --> 00:43:52,888
stuff that you use in your everyday
life versus stuff that you don't and

515
00:43:52,888 --> 00:43:58,009
a lot of the more academic work
that I've done like you make

516
00:43:58,009 --> 00:44:03,069
a gorgeous dazzling thing and
then you show it and then that's it and.

517
00:44:04,188 --> 00:44:04,688
And.

518
00:44:06,409 --> 00:44:06,949
And in a true.

519
00:44:06,949 --> 00:44:12,238
Traction was to try to really
work hard to solve the problem of

520
00:44:12,238 --> 00:44:17,729
stuff that you could use like for
a long over a long period of time like

521
00:44:17,729 --> 00:44:23,318
in your day to day quite answer
question but that's maybe where I'm

522
00:44:23,318 --> 00:44:33,318
thinking.

523
00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:41,660
Maybe.

524
00:44:45,738 --> 00:44:46,718
I would say.

525
00:44:47,829 --> 00:44:49,138
Yes and no.

526
00:44:52,979 --> 00:45:00,148
It was there were no theoretical kind
of constraints on what I could do mit.

527
00:45:01,808 --> 00:45:04,499
But it was tremendously.

528
00:45:05,769 --> 00:45:11,378
But I have found as any of you who have
become a professor I'm so sure you are so

529
00:45:11,378 --> 00:45:15,599
intimately familiar familiar with these
kinds of constraints that once you're

530
00:45:15,599 --> 00:45:21,768
an academic you are not the practitioner
anymore your kind of the leader of a team

531
00:45:21,768 --> 00:45:27,478
of amazing wonderful kind of brilliant
people but it can there's no

532
00:45:27,478 --> 00:45:32,679
there is not a natural space for
you to have your own creative practice and

533
00:45:32,679 --> 00:45:37,368
so that was maybe
the biggest thing that that.

534
00:45:38,938 --> 00:45:44,039
Felt challenging to me and I don't
think that that impossible to create

535
00:45:44,039 --> 00:45:47,969
that space but it takes a tremendous
amount of effort and a tremendous

536
00:45:47,969 --> 00:45:51,438
amount of like fighting against the system
that doesn't give you that space but

537
00:45:51,438 --> 00:45:54,679
like Neary is a great example of someone
who has made that work really well.

538
00:45:57,319 --> 00:46:00,339
So so that is a big that's.

539
00:46:27,939 --> 00:46:28,489
If you want to.

540
00:46:30,368 --> 00:46:30,868
Know.

541
00:46:32,939 --> 00:46:33,439
That.

542
00:46:38,029 --> 00:46:38,529
And that.

543
00:46:40,208 --> 00:46:40,939
Was very.

544
00:46:43,489 --> 00:46:43,989
Very.

545
00:46:46,919 --> 00:46:47,419
Very.

546
00:46:51,829 --> 00:46:53,149
Brave this is.

547
00:46:57,629 --> 00:46:58,319
How you put it.

548
00:47:00,689 --> 00:47:01,478
So interesting I.

549
00:47:04,590 --> 00:47:09,810
There there is a certain sense in
which I mean I think particularly when

550
00:47:09,810 --> 00:47:14,920
that when I was at MIT which just made it
very almost like like comic book clear or

551
00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:17,470
something that I had gone
over to the dark side right.

552
00:47:18,830 --> 00:47:21,980
Like so there is a little bit of.

553
00:47:24,620 --> 00:47:28,870
Kind of the community that I grew up in
is populated by you know really smart

554
00:47:28,870 --> 00:47:32,940
interesting and gauge people but
who in many ways are in a stealth for

555
00:47:32,940 --> 00:47:37,410
in a prior time in a kind of
suspicious of technology and so

556
00:47:37,410 --> 00:47:41,440
on and so forth so there's that
is an element I think of there.

557
00:47:42,489 --> 00:47:47,650
Some of their response to the work
that I do they're also very proud and

558
00:47:47,650 --> 00:47:50,480
parents and in a.

559
00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:59,860
I have I have not pushed the discussion

560
00:47:59,860 --> 00:48:03,590
in a way that I could that would
probably be interesting but I suspect.

561
00:48:04,860 --> 00:48:08,230
I would say that my sense is they
do they're not enamelled of.

562
00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:12,240
This general style of work.

563
00:48:13,580 --> 00:48:18,510
But that they are supported and
interested supportive and

564
00:48:18,510 --> 00:48:20,410
interested in the work
that I do because I'm a.

565
00:48:21,430 --> 00:48:26,340
Daughter so so there could be there
could be an interesting like more

566
00:48:26,340 --> 00:48:29,709
contentious discussion there but
it's one that I've never had so yeah.

567
00:48:46,610 --> 00:48:47,110
Right.

568
00:49:08,049 --> 00:49:09,409
Not necessarily.

569
00:49:10,710 --> 00:49:16,010
I think I think what they object to more
of than the work itself is the ideology

570
00:49:16,010 --> 00:49:20,729
behind it and to the extent that
the ideology is about automation and

571
00:49:20,729 --> 00:49:24,610
that the desirable and goal is to remove.

572
00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:30,660
The physical kind of engagement
with materials all together and

573
00:49:30,660 --> 00:49:33,279
kind of move it to
the screen I think that is.

574
00:49:34,590 --> 00:49:38,180
Almost like a philosophical kind of
ideological standpoint that they

575
00:49:38,180 --> 00:49:39,100
would object to.

576
00:49:41,939 --> 00:49:47,680
And then the hybrid ground I
think is more contentious So

577
00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:50,650
I think it's more about
ideology than it is about.

578
00:49:52,320 --> 00:49:55,470
About the engagement with the actual
materials although I think

579
00:49:55,470 --> 00:49:59,180
what the actual process is really
telling an interesting right so

580
00:49:59,180 --> 00:50:03,460
what just a little anecdote
about the dress so I organized.

581
00:50:05,070 --> 00:50:09,070
A gallery show in New York
a couple of years ago and and

582
00:50:09,070 --> 00:50:13,430
nervous system was going to like
show that dress at the show and but

583
00:50:13,430 --> 00:50:16,620
they hadn't hadn't produced it before but
that was the plan and.

584
00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:21,370
And they couldn't do it because it was
like it was too hard like they didn't meet

585
00:50:21,370 --> 00:50:24,620
the deadline for the show so they had
to show like a much smaller version of

586
00:50:24,620 --> 00:50:28,740
the piece but it gets at that which
they obviously eventually did and

587
00:50:28,740 --> 00:50:31,990
I don't want to mean that I don't
mean that as like ha ha on them or

588
00:50:31,990 --> 00:50:36,019
anything because that's an incredibly
complex like sophisticated task but it was

589
00:50:36,019 --> 00:50:40,430
an interesting anecdote about how like
complex the actual physicality of a like

590
00:50:40,430 --> 00:50:45,650
making that work is so so yeah I also
think that's interesting and probably.

591
00:50:46,680 --> 00:50:51,810
Like it's conceptually interesting as
well as like practical as well as like

592
00:50:51,810 --> 00:50:52,810
more prosaic the interest.

593
00:51:02,639 --> 00:51:03,139
Right.

594
00:51:07,238 --> 00:51:07,738
So.

595
00:51:11,538 --> 00:51:12,038
You know.

596
00:51:18,169 --> 00:51:21,308
What I'm saying but
what is the perfect right.

597
00:51:26,319 --> 00:51:28,249
From what we are going to.

598
00:51:30,909 --> 00:51:31,928
Begin to learn and.

599
00:51:32,949 --> 00:51:33,739
What is the.

600
00:51:35,649 --> 00:51:38,408
I mean the answer is like there's
no perfect thing right like so

601
00:51:38,408 --> 00:51:39,979
so I mean yeah I was.

602
00:51:41,789 --> 00:51:47,568
I mean well I was at MIT I was like God
if I only had some time to myself and

603
00:51:47,568 --> 00:51:54,759
if I only could like have my own like kind
of creative engagement like I miss that so

604
00:51:54,759 --> 00:52:01,029
much and now I'm like I if I only had
amazing community that right like

605
00:52:01,029 --> 00:52:06,409
like you there's no perfect thing
there's always tradeoffs and like but

606
00:52:06,409 --> 00:52:11,168
but at the same time like both
experiences like incredibly rich and

607
00:52:11,168 --> 00:52:16,779
wonderful and so like yeah there's no
optimal thing I don't think but you just

608
00:52:16,779 --> 00:52:22,579
have interesting as you go through life
that's not answering your question but

609
00:52:22,579 --> 00:52:28,999
I mean maybe to try to attempt
a more serious answer I think.

610
00:52:30,799 --> 00:52:32,149
The different structures and

611
00:52:32,149 --> 00:52:35,668
different systems just give
you different constraints and

612
00:52:35,668 --> 00:52:40,588
different benefits and it's not clear
that you can like have the good without.

613
00:52:51,987 --> 00:52:52,487
You.

614
00:52:54,947 --> 00:52:55,447
Do.

615
00:52:58,328 --> 00:52:58,828
So.

616
00:53:26,537 --> 00:53:27,037
If.

617
00:53:29,838 --> 00:53:30,338
You.

618
00:53:40,899 --> 00:53:41,989
So.

619
00:53:43,109 --> 00:53:47,848
I doze questions are certainly ones
that like I personally struggle with

620
00:53:47,848 --> 00:53:53,548
LIKE TO WHAT TO How do you spend your
time is kind of another way to frame it

621
00:53:53,548 --> 00:53:57,479
I do think that there is an there is

622
00:53:57,479 --> 00:54:02,358
like really fruitful space at the
intersection so like with I me like he.

623
00:54:03,839 --> 00:54:07,229
Engaged in like learning
about pottery enough so

624
00:54:07,229 --> 00:54:12,768
that he could make these pieces and
is he a Master Potter like no but

625
00:54:12,768 --> 00:54:18,579
he did like spend several months
like learning about the medium and

626
00:54:18,579 --> 00:54:22,189
the materials and
that I think it makes it that

627
00:54:22,189 --> 00:54:26,568
his work much more interesting than he
would that it would be if he didn't like

628
00:54:26,568 --> 00:54:31,189
take some time to really substantially
engage with that craft practice and

629
00:54:31,189 --> 00:54:36,849
likewise with computation I think you
know there's a level I think you have to.

630
00:54:37,888 --> 00:54:42,149
Know something about computation
to do meaningful work and

631
00:54:42,149 --> 00:54:45,898
in that space but but
I don't think you have to be an.

632
00:54:47,148 --> 00:54:50,779
Like an expert practitioner
in either to do really

633
00:55:02,609 --> 00:55:03,149
started.

634
00:55:05,389 --> 00:55:05,889
Her.

635
00:55:10,009 --> 00:55:10,509
Life.

636
00:55:16,609 --> 00:55:17,109
Was.

637
00:55:20,759 --> 00:55:21,259
Working.

638
00:55:23,168 --> 00:55:24,359
There was.

639
00:55:27,159 --> 00:55:27,659
You know.

640
00:55:35,580 --> 00:55:39,489
A perch I mean so
one thing that is actually.

641
00:55:41,060 --> 00:55:46,739
Motivating my work in the space is I
think there is a lot of opportunities for

642
00:55:46,739 --> 00:55:51,840
like new tool design at this
intersection right so there are so

643
00:55:51,840 --> 00:55:57,389
so so maybe I'll get there at some point
just like what is it that you want to do

644
00:55:57,389 --> 00:56:00,139
when you're kind of designing
objects with computation and

645
00:56:00,139 --> 00:56:04,670
what are what are some kind of
canonical things if you're working with

646
00:56:04,670 --> 00:56:09,520
particular fabrication technologies that
you'd really want and a tool that would.

647
00:56:10,600 --> 00:56:17,060
Kind of in particular be inviting to
an engaging to novice practitioners so

648
00:56:17,060 --> 00:56:20,689
so one answer is like there aren't
necessarily great tools yet and

649
00:56:20,689 --> 00:56:23,799
I think there's a lot of
opportunity to make new tools so

650
00:56:23,799 --> 00:56:27,609
that's one answer the other
answers like there are OK tools so

651
00:56:27,609 --> 00:56:32,920
like you know what is most popular
certainly in architecture is like

652
00:56:32,920 --> 00:56:38,049
Rhino plus grasshopper and grasshopper
is like a graphical programming

653
00:56:38,049 --> 00:56:42,880
language that isn't terribly intuitive but
like but you learn and and.

654
00:56:44,479 --> 00:56:47,249
And of tinker and
figure it out and I mean.

655
00:56:48,259 --> 00:56:50,459
Both the nice and like I think.

656
00:56:51,748 --> 00:56:56,688
Troublesome part of a of like that
combination is that it lets you very

657
00:56:56,688 --> 00:57:01,479
quickly play with really complex things
kind of the negative side of that is like.

658
00:57:02,709 --> 00:57:07,328
What you see in the spaces like let's just
Voronoi diagram everything right like and

659
00:57:07,328 --> 00:57:11,799
that's like we'll call it a day because
it's very beautiful so you can get stuck

660
00:57:11,799 --> 00:57:17,778
in like tropes of like somebody else built
a little widget and like that's awesome

661
00:57:17,778 --> 00:57:21,719
as opposed to kind of exploring your own
like Intel and intentionality and like.

662
00:57:22,819 --> 00:57:24,548
Your own expressive expressive.

663
00:57:28,020 --> 00:57:32,840
But anyway that's a wonderful place to
start processing also is is quite lovely

664
00:57:32,840 --> 00:57:37,919
and there's I think what was
particularly nice about both of these

665
00:57:37,919 --> 00:57:41,709
communities is that there is a community
of people that you can turn to for

666
00:57:41,709 --> 00:57:45,279
kind of help and support and
they're generally quite encouraging of and

667
00:57:45,279 --> 00:57:47,470
like support of newcomers.

668
00:57:51,949 --> 00:57:56,120
Those are a couple of inches all the other
thing I would say is like one of the most

669
00:57:56,120 --> 00:58:01,020
exciting things is that there's a software
called Beat beetle blocks which is like

670
00:58:01,020 --> 00:58:07,760
Eric Rosenbaum is at MIT Also
he works with mature as an arc.

671
00:58:09,700 --> 00:58:13,570
Developed this new software where
you kind of walk a turtle around

672
00:58:13,570 --> 00:58:18,710
in three dimensions and like plop down
shapes as you walk and and then you can

673
00:58:18,710 --> 00:58:21,529
like print that or do whatever like
fabricated in different ways and

674
00:58:21,529 --> 00:58:25,270
it's just it's a really beautiful kind
of new addition to this space that I'm

675
00:58:25,270 --> 00:58:27,570
really excited about so
that's another really cool

676
00:58:34,180 --> 00:58:37,210
Well it's logo So it's yeah yeah.

677
00:58:40,759 --> 00:58:46,360
To anything that's been
going on in the her.

678
00:58:47,439 --> 00:58:51,500
So when we started to do this about
a year we did it on pottery and Clay and

679
00:58:51,500 --> 00:58:55,599
I bumped into Diane and
I didn't even mention before but

680
00:58:55,599 --> 00:58:58,970
we actually is a collaboration
with Georgia State University and.

681
00:59:00,089 --> 00:59:06,319
This School of Art and Design and Darren
happened last year and this year and

682
00:59:06,319 --> 00:59:12,670
very happy to manage to get it Jones
to talk to us and present her work so.

683
00:59:14,120 --> 00:59:18,160
Jess has got an M.F.A.
from East Tennessee and

684
00:59:18,160 --> 00:59:21,929
has been working in five of us and
quilting especially for

685
00:59:21,929 --> 00:59:25,720
quite a while I look through the different
exhibitions that she's been doing one was

686
00:59:25,720 --> 00:59:29,470
called Digital alchemy which is one of
the what I would have laughed to see but

687
00:59:29,470 --> 00:59:35,519
a lot of her work so she said just stayed
and fiber Department now but she is also.

688
00:59:37,740 --> 00:59:41,070
Associated in the gender studies and.

689
00:59:42,629 --> 00:59:44,429
A woman genetics or the studies.

690
00:59:46,040 --> 00:59:50,900
At Georgia State so that alone is already
part of the question that we are trying to

691
00:59:50,900 --> 00:59:56,430
us in these events what does Kraft What
does that making help us to develop to

692
00:59:56,430 --> 01:00:00,150
become when we make a what does that
making do to us as we move forward

693
01:00:00,150 --> 01:00:04,970
Southlanders very interesting what is
constantly an exhibition as I said already

694
01:00:04,970 --> 01:00:09,270
but what I found really exciting
about it that has elements of mapping

695
01:00:09,270 --> 01:00:13,360
back on is and space and architecture so
see this idea of mapping and

696
01:00:13,360 --> 01:00:18,279
communities in the world of quilting and
fabrics I think it's very exciting so

697
01:00:18,279 --> 01:00:22,180
she will give fifteen minute introduction
to her work then we move over to Clint's

698
01:00:22,180 --> 01:00:25,840
you to give a fifteen minute adduction and
then we hopefully have

699
01:00:25,840 --> 01:00:30,540
a lack of discussions about all the and
one of these work and

700
01:00:30,540 --> 01:00:36,860
gesture thank you so much

701
01:00:43,820 --> 01:00:45,919
can you guys hear me all right.

702
01:00:52,040 --> 01:00:55,769
He said I do work with mapping and

703
01:00:55,769 --> 01:00:59,200
that's actually my map otherwise
I would be completely lost.

704
01:01:00,610 --> 01:01:05,179
And thank you Michael and Darien for this
opportunity I knew I would probably not

705
01:01:05,179 --> 01:01:08,940
get to talk at Georgia Tech about my work
because I'm definitely the most different

706
01:01:08,940 --> 01:01:13,380
out of these other two fifo and
you'll see that very very quickly.

707
01:01:15,020 --> 01:01:16,899
So I'm interested in mapping and

708
01:01:16,899 --> 01:01:21,770
I'm interested in the way that my
mind maps through wandering and

709
01:01:21,770 --> 01:01:28,380
I happen to base my work off
of a lot of chance events and

710
01:01:28,380 --> 01:01:33,249
coincidences that I feel that
are connected that are probably not so

711
01:01:33,249 --> 01:01:37,519
much like the way I find my way around
Atlanta which is usually being lost and

712
01:01:37,519 --> 01:01:43,260
then finally figuring out where I am that
is sort of how I produce my work as well.

713
01:01:44,370 --> 01:01:48,420
So I'm going to talk about two
events that happened here in Atlanta

714
01:01:48,420 --> 01:01:53,710
that created a body of work that I'm going
to show you that is some sort of digital

715
01:01:53,710 --> 01:01:55,260
there's the digital element to it.

716
01:01:56,749 --> 01:02:02,110
And one of those is that I needed a new
phone and I decided in twenty fifteen that

717
01:02:02,110 --> 01:02:07,200
I was going to finally get a smartphone
which is a decision I completely regret.

718
01:02:08,300 --> 01:02:13,360
And as I was putting my fingerprint
into the phone which I find horrifying.

719
01:02:14,730 --> 01:02:20,090
It's mapping like just Jones Topol
graffiti on my thumb and

720
01:02:20,090 --> 01:02:24,309
I thought that was really freaky like I
have a little fun landscape in it's taking

721
01:02:24,309 --> 01:02:31,150
in that information and so I became really
interested in that and this coincided with

722
01:02:31,150 --> 01:02:35,750
finding quilt tops in thrift stores and

723
01:02:35,750 --> 01:02:41,640
quilt tops are the parts of the quilt
that you normally see they are made

724
01:02:41,640 --> 01:02:46,730
from pieces they are connected
through sewing with which is a process

725
01:02:46,730 --> 01:02:52,160
called piecing so to piece a quilt means
that you put these pieces together.

726
01:02:52,160 --> 01:02:57,439
And the top means that it is that
front part with the puffy layer and

727
01:02:57,439 --> 01:03:02,500
with the backing so
it's a piece that is unfinished.

728
01:03:03,929 --> 01:03:09,239
And I was completely amazed because every
trip to the thrift store that I made

729
01:03:09,239 --> 01:03:14,270
I felt like there was one waiting
there for me and I found them so

730
01:03:14,270 --> 01:03:18,350
quickly and they're all hand done
like all of these are hand piece so

731
01:03:18,350 --> 01:03:22,510
they're not even done with the sewing
machine which I found really remarkable

732
01:03:22,510 --> 01:03:24,210
because in my work I use is so much.

733
01:03:26,660 --> 01:03:31,640
And so thrift stores are really dangerous
if you're a textile person because textile

734
01:03:31,640 --> 01:03:38,490
people think that she who dies with
the most fabric wins right so.

735
01:03:39,800 --> 01:03:44,130
So this is a this is a problem and there's
a fine line between being resourceful and

736
01:03:44,130 --> 01:03:45,589
just plain hoarding.

737
01:03:47,199 --> 01:03:51,999
So so I'm really careful with this so
when I took these home I was like

738
01:03:51,999 --> 01:03:56,559
OK we're now committed like
something's got to happen between us.

739
01:03:58,290 --> 01:04:03,960
And this became actually a large
body of work that I call topo quilt

740
01:04:03,960 --> 01:04:07,669
and topo meaning to PA graffiti.

741
01:04:09,690 --> 01:04:14,650
Also means for
me top of like it's a pun off top of quilt

742
01:04:14,650 --> 01:04:19,140
right so that's also what you'll see

743
01:04:19,140 --> 01:04:24,040
later is part of the kind of hidden
language where I use quilt language to

744
01:04:24,040 --> 01:04:27,830
talk to quilters that are in the gallery I
try to privilege that kind of information.

745
01:04:31,270 --> 01:04:36,830
And so these are unfinished quilts but
what I you know because they're tops but

746
01:04:36,830 --> 01:04:41,180
I end up adding the batting and the
backing and the binding around the edge

747
01:04:41,180 --> 01:04:46,840
to finish it but the thing that I do in
addition to this is I add a silk overlay

748
01:04:46,840 --> 01:04:52,400
so I put black hand I'd silk
organza over top of these pieces.

749
01:04:52,400 --> 01:04:57,350
And I use a digital projector
to project the lines

750
01:04:57,350 --> 01:05:03,070
of topographic locations
in Atlanta on to these maps

751
01:05:03,070 --> 01:05:07,660
I stitch on either side and
I remove that organza So

752
01:05:07,660 --> 01:05:12,030
you'll see a detail of this on the left
and you'll see my assistant Margaret

753
01:05:12,030 --> 01:05:16,840
performing quilt surgery where she's
cutting off that top layer and

754
01:05:16,840 --> 01:05:21,719
revealing the brighter colors which
are at the original quilt top.

755
01:05:24,530 --> 01:05:28,280
So this is the resulting piece from
that this is a comparison here between

756
01:05:28,280 --> 01:05:31,769
the quilt top and the finished piece and.

757
01:05:34,598 --> 01:05:39,008
This is a piece with the topography
of the Atlanta prison farm and

758
01:05:39,008 --> 01:05:44,799
I try to sometimes choose
locations that play off

759
01:05:44,799 --> 01:05:50,999
of the quilt pattern in this case
bars right so pattern is bars Atlanta

760
01:05:50,999 --> 01:05:56,519
prison farm along that same line this is
the finished piece with the information.

761
01:05:57,568 --> 01:06:02,669
Along that same line would be a pattern
of bow ties with the topographic

762
01:06:02,669 --> 01:06:07,619
information of the Claremont
lounge which is a great place.

763
01:06:09,519 --> 01:06:10,079
And.

764
01:06:11,199 --> 01:06:13,489
A glorious strip club here in Atlanta.

765
01:06:16,789 --> 01:06:22,489
So because this work is unfinished.

766
01:06:23,659 --> 01:06:24,579
I would.

767
01:06:26,178 --> 01:06:27,619
I would I believe.

768
01:06:28,909 --> 01:06:34,229
That it was made locally so
if you finish a quilt and you bind it and

769
01:06:34,229 --> 01:06:39,498
use it or give it away it's more
likely to travel somewhere but

770
01:06:39,498 --> 01:06:44,269
if it's unfinished I believe
that it was abandoned and

771
01:06:44,269 --> 01:06:47,829
so I believe that who made this quilt.

772
01:06:48,848 --> 01:06:55,928
Shares my landscape here in Atlanta
right and I like to think about what

773
01:06:55,928 --> 01:07:01,068
in their world might have influenced
their choice of quilt pattern so

774
01:07:01,068 --> 01:07:06,578
quilts often respond to both
well you know the natural and

775
01:07:06,578 --> 01:07:10,989
the built landscape but they also
respond to a social landscape so for

776
01:07:10,989 --> 01:07:17,719
example you know in quilt language
triangles mean flying geese right

777
01:07:17,719 --> 01:07:21,699
or a long rectangle in
a pattern is a log cabin.

778
01:07:24,369 --> 01:07:29,798
Quarter circles linked together form
a drunkard's path and interlocking

779
01:07:29,798 --> 01:07:34,209
circles or a wedding ring quilt and
these are all really really interesting.

780
01:07:34,209 --> 01:07:34,979
Patterns to me.

781
01:07:38,208 --> 01:07:38,719
And so

782
01:07:38,719 --> 01:07:43,829
I really like that in this piece which is
the topography surrounding world of Coke.

783
01:07:45,378 --> 01:07:50,488
I can see a comparison between this
Coke sign which is that five points and

784
01:07:50,488 --> 01:07:54,308
the pattern of what's called a Dresden
circle which is the little sort of

785
01:07:54,308 --> 01:07:58,079
partially pieced embroidered
circles that are the motif on this.

786
01:08:03,150 --> 01:08:07,390
And I think what's really interesting
with this and you know I'm going to make

787
01:08:07,390 --> 01:08:14,070
a comparison here about skill and
resources is that on the right you have.

788
01:08:15,660 --> 01:08:17,780
A piece that was probably
made by a dressmaker.

789
01:08:19,559 --> 01:08:22,520
Each of those pieces of fabric
in the original quilt top.

790
01:08:23,920 --> 01:08:30,750
Was a fabric that was too light and
finicky to be sewn together and

791
01:08:30,750 --> 01:08:35,890
so what she chose to do is hand so
that to a sturdier

792
01:08:35,890 --> 01:08:42,129
fabric behind it before each piece was
sewn together to make it easier to sew and

793
01:08:42,129 --> 01:08:47,549
that's a skill that people typically
pick up in things like dress making and

794
01:08:47,549 --> 01:08:51,060
her hand stitching actually makes me
think that she was likely a dressmaker.

795
01:08:52,479 --> 01:08:58,110
The piece on the left complete
opposite this is someone who found

796
01:08:58,110 --> 01:09:04,110
an upholstery sample book and
decided to tear out all the pages and

797
01:09:04,110 --> 01:09:09,360
without any disturbance of those
pages piece them together and

798
01:09:09,360 --> 01:09:14,090
I really really admire this because you
can see all the different color ways and

799
01:09:14,090 --> 01:09:19,899
they're not particularly organized in
a two dimensional design kind of way but

800
01:09:19,899 --> 01:09:23,250
I think they're really really elegant and

801
01:09:23,250 --> 01:09:26,630
to me that's that's one of the most
unique pieces that I found.

802
01:09:29,769 --> 01:09:34,930
And this is a comparison here that I
have between two pieces by the same

803
01:09:34,930 --> 01:09:37,790
artist so the original quilt.

804
01:09:39,070 --> 01:09:44,810
Dressmaker strikes again same
thrift store months apart so

805
01:09:44,810 --> 01:09:47,700
two closets were cleaned out and

806
01:09:47,700 --> 01:09:53,150
these pieces made it to the exact same
place where I found them months apart and

807
01:09:53,150 --> 01:09:57,690
it finding this kind of stuff and
knowing something about

808
01:09:57,690 --> 01:10:02,510
that person leads me to believe that
I'm that I'm like a quilt psychic.

809
01:10:04,330 --> 01:10:09,310
But I now I'm an insider in sort of their
world that I think is kind of cool.

810
01:10:11,700 --> 01:10:16,650
And I'll make a little comparison
here too this is a piece

811
01:10:16,650 --> 01:10:21,060
that was so the original piece is so
exquisitely made.

812
01:10:24,020 --> 01:10:26,670
The connections between the.

813
01:10:28,200 --> 01:10:32,639
Location and the pattern aren't
always a joke like it or it isn't

814
01:10:32,639 --> 01:10:37,380
always like bow ties and Claremont
lounge This one's a lot more subtle and

815
01:10:37,380 --> 01:10:42,210
this one is is made from
you know I decided Mason

816
01:10:42,210 --> 01:10:47,050
mill would combine with this quilt
pattern because of the relationships of

817
01:10:47,050 --> 01:10:49,950
patterns in the pathways that I
found there when I was hiking and

818
01:10:49,950 --> 01:10:55,030
so I put those two together so the
relationship between the topography and

819
01:10:55,030 --> 01:10:59,999
the quilt pattern are kind of summer
tie in summer loose so I don't want to

820
01:10:59,999 --> 01:11:03,480
be a joke and I want there to be like
some flexibility with that relationship.

821
01:11:04,719 --> 01:11:08,719
But this original quilt top was
just exquisitely made with a lot of

822
01:11:08,719 --> 01:11:12,840
really good material that
someone invested in and

823
01:11:12,840 --> 01:11:16,340
it was all hand pieced which
is an extreme time investment.

824
01:11:18,109 --> 01:11:22,139
But I want to contrast that
not in quality but just in.

825
01:11:24,530 --> 01:11:26,480
In sort of material access.

826
01:11:27,520 --> 01:11:29,320
To this piece which is definitely made.

827
01:11:29,320 --> 01:11:34,300
Made out of shirt sleeves and
pant legs from different garments so it's

828
01:11:34,300 --> 01:11:39,199
very very clear when you see the piece in
person this was definitely exactly what

829
01:11:39,199 --> 01:11:44,710
was on hand and this person could collect
these things and put them together.

830
01:11:46,020 --> 01:11:50,320
Probably with the same
drive as this person

831
01:11:50,320 --> 01:11:55,509
right the same kind of motivation I think
is behind that but I think what it reveals

832
01:11:55,509 --> 01:11:59,929
is a different access to material and
a different access to technology and

833
01:11:59,929 --> 01:12:03,200
I think that that's something
that's really important in Atlanta.

834
01:12:04,240 --> 01:12:09,299
Particularly recently with
issues of gentrification and

835
01:12:09,299 --> 01:12:14,619
the way that some people have access
to a lot of things over others and

836
01:12:14,619 --> 01:12:19,029
Atlanta is very very known for
this and come discrepancy and

837
01:12:19,029 --> 01:12:22,270
things like that so
I'm interested in that.

838
01:12:23,529 --> 01:12:28,900
Back to the fingerprint what really
interests me about quilts is that they

839
01:12:28,900 --> 01:12:36,440
are themselves a landscape they sort of
have their own Topol graffiti as well

840
01:12:36,440 --> 01:12:41,280
and I think they respond
to the environment and

841
01:12:41,280 --> 01:12:44,700
although they're anonymous
they give us clues to.

842
01:12:45,870 --> 01:12:50,980
To their maker that I think are really
fascinating and one of the things that I

843
01:12:50,980 --> 01:12:56,980
really wanted to do in this
series is to honor the maker and

844
01:12:56,980 --> 01:13:02,800
the original quilter here because
potentially this person is a neighbor

845
01:13:02,800 --> 01:13:07,460
of mine this person could be like someone
that I share the city landscape with and

846
01:13:07,460 --> 01:13:11,980
that relationship is really important
to me so that's one of the reasons that

847
01:13:11,980 --> 01:13:16,730
I choose to use their language or
our shared language of quilting.

848
01:13:18,350 --> 01:13:24,990
Is so that these pieces if need
be could be recovered so there's

849
01:13:24,990 --> 01:13:29,320
nothing permanent that's been done to
these original pieces so I'm not painting.

850
01:13:29,320 --> 01:13:33,790
In the not printing on them I'm not
hardening them in any way they're still

851
01:13:33,790 --> 01:13:38,590
the same pieces just with some
stitching which is easily recoverable.

852
01:13:41,340 --> 01:13:42,640
And that's my last line.

853
01:13:46,750 --> 01:13:54,801
Thank you so

854
01:13:54,801 --> 01:13:57,081
I cleaned the setting up
Clancy last year Georgia Tech.

855
01:13:58,480 --> 01:13:59,861
He's a research scientist.

856
01:14:04,210 --> 01:14:08,151
Basing my neighbor for
four offices down the block

857
01:14:08,151 --> 01:14:12,021
He's also the program manager of
the variable computing group right.

858
01:14:13,111 --> 01:14:15,641
Center he's also connected to the.

859
01:14:16,951 --> 01:14:17,971
Center and did some.

860
01:14:20,371 --> 01:14:23,871
Fabrics and and
projects with them I understand

861
01:14:23,871 --> 01:14:27,740
somehow when Ziegler is typical almost for
the way G.B.

862
01:14:27,740 --> 01:14:31,821
You works it's very into this when they're
used to center that because Italy and

863
01:14:31,821 --> 01:14:36,951
this is the into just in a center here at
Georgia Tech that includes all kinds of

864
01:14:36,951 --> 01:14:42,660
different folks in computing liberal
arts engineering public policy and

865
01:14:42,660 --> 01:14:48,651
Clint this kind of typical for this scum
comes in with a background in fashion and

866
01:14:48,651 --> 01:14:54,641
now industrial design and thrive Spike
combining them and doing something new and

867
01:14:54,641 --> 01:15:00,191
exciting with them so that he lives that
for offices down the block from me I work

868
01:15:00,191 --> 01:15:03,951
because we're always passing each other by
and see each other's work maybe one day

869
01:15:03,951 --> 01:15:07,141
somebody excited to see what he's doing
at the moment and please reckon with me.

870
01:15:12,310 --> 01:15:14,520
I'm super excited to
be able to talk about.

871
01:15:15,541 --> 01:15:22,560
It and some of my Actually some of my
really early work Georgia Tech but I think

872
01:15:22,560 --> 01:15:27,610
it's kind of mentioned my background
much like yours I grew up in a very.

873
01:15:29,930 --> 01:15:32,040
My town was a South Georgia farming.

874
01:15:34,569 --> 01:15:38,589
My grandmother owned the fabric store in
town and my granddad take sewing machines

875
01:15:38,589 --> 01:15:41,839
so this is like everyone went
there to buy their fabric and.

876
01:15:42,969 --> 01:15:46,179
He fix the sewing machine so I had this

877
01:15:46,179 --> 01:15:50,468
like after school I would go hang out
in the back room and make paint T.

878
01:15:50,468 --> 01:15:55,198
shirts and then I would watch
my grandad like tinker with so

879
01:15:55,198 --> 01:15:58,788
in machines and all these things so
that's kind of how I grew up.

880
01:16:00,048 --> 01:16:06,198
Like any smart boy in Georgia who's
good at math went to Georgia Tech My mom

881
01:16:06,198 --> 01:16:11,829
was like you're going to be a scientist
I'm going to be a designer and now.

882
01:16:13,509 --> 01:16:18,559
I got an undergraduate degree of
industrial design I went to Italy and

883
01:16:18,559 --> 01:16:22,868
went to grad program in fashion design and
was Kenny and

884
01:16:22,868 --> 01:16:27,398
then came back here he can Pica tour

885
01:16:30,188 --> 01:16:34,197
and then gradually got so.

886
01:16:39,496 --> 01:16:47,316
He can Pikachu or so when I came back to
Atlanta I started make it to a business.

887
01:16:48,406 --> 01:16:54,806
Where I was really interested in
maybe we'll have a discussion about

888
01:16:54,806 --> 01:17:00,786
what we think of ourselves as like
I do I define myself as a designer.

889
01:17:01,906 --> 01:17:03,776
With some wonder standing of craft.

890
01:17:04,805 --> 01:17:09,106
But there's a whole discussion
around are like designers craftsman

891
01:17:09,106 --> 01:17:13,567
makers like that hold this conscious but

892
01:17:13,567 --> 01:17:17,897
I consider myself a designer because I was
really interested in the process how do I

893
01:17:17,897 --> 01:17:22,957
take something that can become unique and
look like a craft and

894
01:17:22,957 --> 01:17:28,297
each one is different but
create a process where I can make.

895
01:17:29,876 --> 01:17:38,397
So we worked with we source the cotton
from North Carolina design the T.

896
01:17:38,397 --> 01:17:39,057
shirts have the T.

897
01:17:39,057 --> 01:17:41,667
shirts made North Carolina and
then we got the blank T.

898
01:17:41,667 --> 01:17:43,177
shirts and handed them with.

899
01:17:45,186 --> 01:17:48,787
A natural processes and
hand screen printed them and

900
01:17:48,787 --> 01:17:53,456
did some embroidery I T.

901
01:17:53,456 --> 01:18:00,466
shirt I was dye with organic cotton from
North Carolina was died within the get

902
01:18:06,696 --> 01:18:12,755
on top of them so that was two
thousand and six to two thousand and

903
01:18:12,755 --> 01:18:18,687
nine and part of what I was most proud
of with the company sustainable but

904
01:18:18,687 --> 01:18:26,268
also regionally focus to create this

905
01:18:32,138 --> 01:18:36,697
so women stop buying one
hundred fifty dollar T.

906
01:18:36,697 --> 01:18:38,288
shirts in two thousand and eight.

907
01:18:44,279 --> 01:18:49,729
I started using class and
wearable product design and

908
01:18:49,729 --> 01:18:53,729
that star heard about the class and
was like hey can you help me T.

909
01:18:54,809 --> 01:18:57,849
It was computing class and
that led into research projects.

910
01:18:58,999 --> 01:18:59,769
So this is.

911
01:19:01,469 --> 01:19:05,879
Where we started looking at
embroideries using conductive thread.

912
01:19:07,268 --> 01:19:07,929
As.

913
01:19:10,960 --> 01:19:14,400
This had been done before
it wasn't super novel but

914
01:19:19,239 --> 01:19:23,031
it is on our kind of kind of surround this

915
01:19:25,031 --> 01:19:29,152
is the first is the human
factor surrounding that So

916
01:19:29,152 --> 01:19:33,872
how well can you find an interface
because it's created by an embroidery or

917
01:19:33,872 --> 01:19:38,932
printed where should those go in the body
those kinds of human factor questions so

918
01:19:38,932 --> 01:19:43,241
we looked at it how do we create
interfaces are designed them so

919
01:19:43,241 --> 01:19:46,721
that they're easy to interact
with on the go while you're not

920
01:19:46,721 --> 01:19:50,842
visibly looking at the interface and
what do those interactions look like.

921
01:19:52,672 --> 01:19:58,412
Part of this which was this is a moment in
the process that I was really happy about

922
01:19:59,901 --> 01:20:05,471
we have to in using these types of
interfaces we're using capacitive it's

923
01:20:10,281 --> 01:20:19,632
on the body we decided to try

924
01:20:32,411 --> 01:20:40,431
and in doing that and by state

925
01:21:08,822 --> 01:21:10,261
it's kind of a full circle moment.

926
01:21:11,762 --> 01:21:16,793
But I just had to explain
that to you over the course.

927
01:21:18,213 --> 01:21:19,953
But how do I convey this

928
01:21:52,042 --> 01:21:55,011
so what we tried to do
is figure out a way.

929
01:21:56,121 --> 01:22:00,182
To talk to designers and
skilled craftspeople.

930
01:22:01,441 --> 01:22:05,992
Building a skill in a way that they were
used to seeing that kind of information so

931
01:22:05,992 --> 01:22:10,810
we created something called
interface watch look

932
01:22:10,810 --> 01:22:14,571
these are just examples of what a normal
swatch book might look like Asians

933
01:22:16,952 --> 01:22:22,042
get and play with it and see

934
01:22:24,543 --> 01:22:31,622
and then watch and example

935
01:22:34,063 --> 01:22:39,283
something that might pop up on on the edge
we purposely didn't try to dictate

936
01:22:39,283 --> 01:22:45,043
specific uses So the way a swatch would be

937
01:22:57,611 --> 01:23:01,782
used for that but
that we just inspired really.

938
01:23:02,972 --> 01:23:12,962
Created the

939
01:23:12,973 --> 01:23:15,463
Swatch book and
we use this watch we can and

940
01:23:17,603 --> 01:23:22,833
one of them was with
an Italian musician named Rowe

941
01:23:22,833 --> 01:23:25,803
where we showed him the Swatch book and
we worked with him for a week.

942
01:23:27,233 --> 01:23:31,363
To create a garment that he
basically as a musical controller.

943
01:23:40,778 --> 01:23:46,698
But he used it to control preset
functions that he created but

944
01:23:46,698 --> 01:23:51,829
this is the one we process where
we work together a musician and

945
01:23:51,829 --> 01:23:55,518
designers technicians engineers.

946
01:23:56,918 --> 01:24:00,649
And part of what we did with
the Swatch book was used as a way

947
01:24:00,649 --> 01:24:03,119
to communicate between people so

948
01:24:11,577 --> 01:24:16,268
because this this is not a garment
that's going to be washed really so

949
01:24:16,268 --> 01:24:20,358
we were able to create basically
an art piece rather than something

950
01:24:25,317 --> 01:24:32,036
to have a moment where Rowe was
able to play with the textile and

951
01:24:32,036 --> 01:24:35,846
interact with it while at this point we're
able to talk to each other about what it's

952
01:24:35,846 --> 01:24:41,145
actually doing and how he actually can and

953
01:24:49,386 --> 01:24:54,195
pretty visual like how it works and

954
01:24:54,195 --> 01:25:00,366
then another project really quickly
was a project that we called monstre.

955
01:25:01,936 --> 01:25:02,745
Basically that came

956
01:25:02,745 --> 01:25:12,745
from.

957
01:25:24,435 --> 01:25:29,365
We did some actual sketching together and
we played with fabrics together so

958
01:25:29,365 --> 01:25:35,283
this was this was traditional type of like
design which also showed her the Swatch

959
01:25:35,283 --> 01:25:38,834
book so she could understand like you
can touch fabrics and control things.

960
01:25:40,514 --> 01:25:41,474
And in the end.

961
01:25:43,334 --> 01:25:45,434
We ended up making a dress with all this

962
01:26:22,623 --> 01:26:29,485
so those kinds of things you
know find their way back in.

963
01:26:30,825 --> 01:26:32,525
And super quick my last project.

964
01:26:34,495 --> 01:26:40,544
That I just worked on is kind of
a culmination of Whenever I work on these

965
01:26:50,346 --> 01:26:54,555
and I thought why not make that
a little more formal and organize

966
01:27:05,575 --> 01:27:06,375
them so.

967
01:27:07,615 --> 01:27:12,594
Through an exhaustive literature
review and that are pretty

968
01:27:12,594 --> 01:27:17,863
simple and show you where it's like for
instance this

969
01:27:17,863 --> 01:27:20,984
is where you can hold more weight where
you can hold less weight on the body.

970
01:27:23,603 --> 01:27:25,573
Areas of the body that have this

971
01:27:29,825 --> 01:27:35,535
is a map about active touch so we're on
the body do we use our body to investigate

972
01:27:35,535 --> 01:27:39,825
through touch where on the body
can we feel touch feel haptics.

973
01:27:41,314 --> 01:27:43,835
Different they work best on the body for

974
01:27:43,835 --> 01:27:47,394
different uses and
in each one of these body maps come

975
01:27:52,654 --> 01:27:57,585
in the list of academic resources
where you can find why I

976
01:27:57,585 --> 01:28:01,905
made that choice right that's
available for free but as a designer

977
01:28:01,905 --> 01:28:05,145
I was most excited about this moment were
active like that all the maps on high.

978
01:28:12,219 --> 01:28:13,128
To combine it.

979
01:28:17,449 --> 01:28:20,809
Kind of the general areas where
wearable technology is or

980
01:28:20,809 --> 01:28:26,309
could be and
all that information is available

981
01:28:43,560 --> 01:28:44,470
how am I supposed to

982
01:29:21,559 --> 01:29:24,040
thank

983
01:29:24,040 --> 01:29:34,040
you.

984
01:29:50,578 --> 01:29:52,408
So we have to.

985
01:29:55,060 --> 01:30:01,340
I think it was great that Clint ended
with pictures of the body so the.

986
01:30:03,220 --> 01:30:07,240
Discussions part of these discussions
of variable computers and

987
01:30:07,240 --> 01:30:11,630
fabrics and how we combine things and
how we combine the.

988
01:30:12,980 --> 01:30:17,269
Digital with non digital a lot
of things happening there I mean

989
01:30:17,269 --> 01:30:20,730
we have new technologies we
have conductive threat we have.

990
01:30:22,540 --> 01:30:26,700
A whole screens and
stuff that's on the on on our bodies but

991
01:30:26,700 --> 01:30:30,229
the bodies are still there right so
it's still our.

992
01:30:32,299 --> 01:30:37,690
Input system and I'll put this still the
same thing there are people also working

993
01:30:37,690 --> 01:30:41,130
on this I'm aware of that but by the at
least for the topic we're talking about

994
01:30:41,130 --> 01:30:47,959
today as I just was really interesting to
see how that hits this part that stays

995
01:30:47,959 --> 01:30:52,220
the same which kind of it I don't know
that's a question's medical problem so.

996
01:30:54,010 --> 01:31:00,240
Is there any balancing that you see
happening in that so that we have.

997
01:31:02,390 --> 01:31:04,490
A body system that is.

998
01:31:05,780 --> 01:31:09,969
X.
thousands of years old and clothing system

999
01:31:09,969 --> 01:31:14,340
that is dynamic it might change with
whatever the Twitter feed is or

1000
01:31:14,340 --> 01:31:19,399
that that has its own logic
like you know the from the.

1001
01:31:21,179 --> 01:31:25,999
By them and
almost have their own AI system so what.

1002
01:31:27,020 --> 01:31:33,999
Does that reflect back on my body or
is this like a seed in this connection or

1003
01:31:33,999 --> 01:31:38,050
do things go wrong when when
these things hit well for me.

1004
01:31:39,690 --> 01:31:44,339
I think in your

1005
01:31:44,339 --> 01:31:48,509
question there's another there's in
your question there's another problem.

1006
01:31:49,649 --> 01:31:53,458
Which is really how different
disciplines view the body.

1007
01:31:55,399 --> 01:32:00,378
And so in skill based disciplines
like fashion design and

1008
01:32:00,378 --> 01:32:03,269
I call it a skill based
disciplined just because.

1009
01:32:04,308 --> 01:32:05,789
The.

1010
01:32:05,789 --> 01:32:09,048
Way you learn fashion design there's
all these rules like you would think by

1011
01:32:09,048 --> 01:32:14,589
watching a fashion show that it's about
art and being like you know flamboyant and

1012
01:32:14,589 --> 01:32:21,499
creative but fashion is one of
the most ruled in regulated

1013
01:32:21,499 --> 01:32:26,858
like engines that exist
because you know there's.

1014
01:32:28,248 --> 01:32:32,149
There's ancient ways of cutting fabric

1015
01:32:32,149 --> 01:32:36,989
that make it fit on the body
in a certain way so and so

1016
01:32:36,989 --> 01:32:41,409
fashion tends to start from those
like regimented like pattern blocks.

1017
01:32:42,539 --> 01:32:47,259
And it's not just that it's also how often
those come out and how often how often you

1018
01:32:47,259 --> 01:32:52,279
show you know what's new and
what's new is regimented in time frame so.

1019
01:32:53,339 --> 01:32:57,229
It's really interested in how they
deal with this idea of a constantly.

1020
01:32:58,259 --> 01:33:03,879
Changing what we think they're
changing on the body where is

1021
01:33:03,879 --> 01:33:07,498
the technical people that I tend to work
with and the computer scientists and

1022
01:33:07,498 --> 01:33:11,659
the people that deal in human factors
are like the body is the body and

1023
01:33:11,659 --> 01:33:16,009
like we just have to figure out the best
way to make this thing move right so

1024
01:33:16,009 --> 01:33:20,669
I'm like I think it's getting those
people to talk to each other.

1025
01:33:22,588 --> 01:33:27,349
And work on something that sits on
the body so like a short example would

1026
01:33:27,349 --> 01:33:32,499
be if I have a fashion designer they may
want to cut a silhouette in a certain way

1027
01:33:32,499 --> 01:33:37,539
which means that they need to put a sensor
they want to show off a person's waist so

1028
01:33:37,539 --> 01:33:41,488
they want to put the sensor like on the
shoulder on the back but that particular

1029
01:33:41,488 --> 01:33:44,979
sensor the engineer sitting across from
him saying no that sensor needs to be on

1030
01:33:44,979 --> 01:33:48,568
the waist because I have to read this
certain thing that comes from the waist.

1031
01:33:49,789 --> 01:33:52,238
And being able to negotiate
what's more important.

1032
01:33:53,839 --> 01:33:57,339
Is is why I think those
kind of relationships.

1033
01:34:05,548 --> 01:34:07,839
A little about that maybe.

1034
01:34:09,579 --> 01:34:12,369
Particularly responding to kind
of technology on the body.

1035
01:34:14,369 --> 01:34:17,899
So I worked for I have worked

1036
01:34:17,899 --> 01:34:22,049
many years in the space of electronic
textiles and wearable computing.

1037
01:34:24,269 --> 01:34:29,349
One of the interesting things
about the field that you.

1038
01:34:30,388 --> 01:34:33,859
Are one of the interesting things about
that field is that there are some striking

1039
01:34:33,859 --> 01:34:39,059
retirement so
some of the most interesting designers and

1040
01:34:39,059 --> 01:34:44,479
practitioners of practitioners in
that space have like left the field.

1041
01:34:46,429 --> 01:34:49,709
So I take them or take a lot of Maggie
orthe who is in many ways kind of

1042
01:34:49,709 --> 01:34:54,848
the founder of kind of working
with electronics and textiles and

1043
01:34:54,848 --> 01:34:59,629
in kind of a design or oriented way one
of the very first people to do that.

1044
01:35:00,668 --> 01:35:04,109
She no longer works in the space and
there are kind of some others.

1045
01:35:05,299 --> 01:35:06,468
And that coupled with like.

1046
01:35:08,488 --> 01:35:12,059
A narrative in wearable computing
where it's always about to happen

1047
01:35:12,059 --> 01:35:14,939
right this is kind of like
legendary in our space like every.

1048
01:35:16,109 --> 01:35:19,969
Every so often there's like big news about
wearable computing and it's like it's

1049
01:35:19,969 --> 01:35:25,548
about how to like really happened we're
really about to have this mainstream

1050
01:35:25,548 --> 01:35:30,179
like wearable computer thing and
somehow we we haven't yet got in there.

1051
01:35:32,429 --> 01:35:32,929
And.

1052
01:35:34,499 --> 01:35:38,518
I so that that's all kind
of background I wanted

1053
01:35:38,518 --> 01:35:43,509
to I guess share some of my eyes thoughts
about working in the discipline and.

1054
01:35:44,749 --> 01:35:48,919
To me these things perhaps or
are interconnected so

1055
01:35:48,919 --> 01:35:53,518
I've stepped back some from
working in electronic textiles.

1056
01:35:55,048 --> 01:35:55,879
Feeling.

1057
01:35:59,399 --> 01:36:01,118
Kind of an ongoing affection for

1058
01:36:01,118 --> 01:36:04,119
the space but also a certain
kind of disenchantment in my.

1059
01:36:04,119 --> 01:36:08,028
Particular kind of version of
disenchantment is I I have discovered that

1060
01:36:08,028 --> 01:36:14,139
like I love the materials of that space
which I think I am totally infatuated with

1061
01:36:14,139 --> 01:36:19,519
like mashing up like fabric and
electronics like I love the look of like

1062
01:36:19,519 --> 01:36:24,609
making a circuit on textile like that
the you can do that it's gorgeous like

1063
01:36:24,609 --> 01:36:29,398
I love kind of the cultural implications
of that the like this that acts that you

1064
01:36:29,398 --> 01:36:34,669
can kind of that naturally come
out of that combination but

1065
01:36:34,669 --> 01:36:40,129
I'm not super interested in anything
you can actually do with the technical

1066
01:36:40,129 --> 01:36:45,359
like I don't really want to record
my physical movements all the time

1067
01:36:45,359 --> 01:36:50,159
like you you can do kind of a beautiful
interactive like theater and

1068
01:36:50,159 --> 01:36:54,719
dance performances and that's interesting
but then that's kind of what you do.

1069
01:36:57,398 --> 01:37:01,249
I don't like blinky lights and
closes like fun but

1070
01:37:01,249 --> 01:37:06,269
then that's kind of
that's the end of that.

1071
01:37:07,639 --> 01:37:13,919
So that is that's kind of my feeling
about wearables in many ways and I.

1072
01:37:15,719 --> 01:37:19,309
So and I don't want to be too cynical
about the discipline because I

1073
01:37:19,309 --> 01:37:21,118
think there's really
interesting vibrant work and

1074
01:37:21,118 --> 01:37:24,309
I don't want to abandon it or
say it's like not worthwhile.

1075
01:37:25,449 --> 01:37:28,179
But I've personally found
kind of a dead end but

1076
01:37:28,179 --> 01:37:33,298
I wonder if my own personal that it
isn't connected to the fact that that.

1077
01:37:34,478 --> 01:37:39,149
There seems to be like a hump that we
haven't gotten over in that space so yeah.

1078
01:37:40,879 --> 01:37:41,999
Yeah can I call my mama.

1079
01:37:46,699 --> 01:37:50,608
Yeah I had a conversation with Maggie and
I'm so

1080
01:37:50,608 --> 01:37:54,299
tired and
I think I think part of it is pushing.

1081
01:37:55,419 --> 01:38:00,108
Part of it is like working for
years and it's about to hit it's about.

1082
01:38:01,999 --> 01:38:06,859
Which is why I'm Which is why I'm
personally really interested in

1083
01:38:06,859 --> 01:38:08,379
what I'm interested in which is.

1084
01:38:09,439 --> 01:38:14,419
How do you get the people who
are responsible for creating the desirable

1085
01:38:14,419 --> 01:38:20,809
objects or brands or fashions to
understand what they could do with it.

1086
01:38:22,019 --> 01:38:26,088
In a way that it's not really my
responsibility to come up with the killer

1087
01:38:26,088 --> 01:38:29,838
app but I'm in but
I'm able killer application.

1088
01:38:31,908 --> 01:38:34,549
I want to mention the sound sequence

1089
01:38:34,549 --> 01:38:36,799
that we created which my
actually kills someone.

1090
01:38:39,299 --> 01:38:39,799
The.

1091
01:38:40,969 --> 01:38:41,569
Killer.

1092
01:38:42,858 --> 01:38:46,049
I'm probably not the person
that's going to come up with that

1093
01:38:46,049 --> 01:38:49,399
like the thing that's going to hit
thousands and thousands of people

1094
01:38:49,399 --> 01:38:54,279
I feel like my responsibility is more
about how do I communicate these ideas and

1095
01:38:54,279 --> 01:38:59,239
processes in a way that the designers
that can come up with that idea and

1096
01:38:59,239 --> 01:39:03,998
that's really interesting to me like also
watching conflicts happen like between

1097
01:39:03,998 --> 01:39:09,809
like technology people and
designers but but

1098
01:39:09,809 --> 01:39:14,028
so take this turn to what I was
really excited about the material and

1099
01:39:14,028 --> 01:39:18,759
now you're completely in the material like
like metal and paper self-made paper and

1100
01:39:18,759 --> 01:39:22,988
so you return to the rule
like you said right so.

1101
01:39:24,418 --> 01:39:29,918
And I see and yes work that
this is very much like return

1102
01:39:29,918 --> 01:39:34,278
to return to your state to the material
you find them in fifty dollars and

1103
01:39:34,278 --> 01:39:36,738
you stay as true as you
can to that material and

1104
01:39:36,738 --> 01:39:40,929
then build on top of it without
digital stuff involved.

1105
01:39:43,009 --> 01:39:44,988
With a minimizing as well so

1106
01:39:44,988 --> 01:39:49,909
I'm choosing to you know I put in an
application for a grant to get digital and

1107
01:39:49,909 --> 01:39:55,448
bravery machine to make that
fingerprint as accurate as possible

1108
01:39:55,448 --> 01:40:01,589
thank God that didn't happen thank God
that Grant failed and now I can take the.

1109
01:40:01,589 --> 01:40:05,909
Digital information and
translate it to hand because I think it

1110
01:40:05,909 --> 01:40:10,709
would have weakened the work in
a lot of ways in order you know and

1111
01:40:10,709 --> 01:40:16,089
I mean like there just right now
there's an element of finger painting

1112
01:40:16,089 --> 01:40:21,039
with the topography that I think is
a lot more genuine and interesting than

1113
01:40:21,039 --> 01:40:26,359
if that mark making were done
in a really calculated hard way

1114
01:40:26,359 --> 01:40:30,898
you know you but so you don't
have this this this is basically.

1115
01:40:32,289 --> 01:40:38,358
It's like the look what you can
return to the actual craftsmanship.

1116
01:40:39,509 --> 01:40:42,858
And avoids what might be and it's not
always isn't meant as a critique but

1117
01:40:42,858 --> 01:40:44,948
sometimes it is just
gimmickry that we can.

1118
01:40:45,999 --> 01:40:49,439
Learn anything these days so
it's a blink using on this part so

1119
01:40:49,439 --> 01:40:53,389
but Mike My question is almost like
a continuation of what plans interest is.

1120
01:40:54,399 --> 01:40:59,538
There seemed to be potential there that
it's not that sometimes brings up and

1121
01:40:59,538 --> 01:41:01,928
sometimes comes and goes and ages and

1122
01:41:01,928 --> 01:41:07,399
where people who try to push it all
the time is step potential that is

1123
01:41:07,399 --> 01:41:13,098
inherent to the combination of the two
right or is the potential more like

1124
01:41:13,098 --> 01:41:19,139
the collision of the two that creates
some some interesting friction and then.

1125
01:41:21,269 --> 01:41:21,769
I.

1126
01:41:23,129 --> 01:41:25,569
Think you know when
the killer is there but

1127
01:41:25,569 --> 01:41:29,738
that's also an interesting point of value
because I was talking to a ceramicist and

1128
01:41:29,738 --> 01:41:35,708
he was telling me that he was teaching
little kids how to make a coil pot and

1129
01:41:35,708 --> 01:41:41,609
you make a snake and you turn it into
a pot by twisting it in a spiral and

1130
01:41:41,609 --> 01:41:44,799
one of the kids said Little kids
was like it's like three D.

1131
01:41:44,799 --> 01:41:46,098
printing with your hands.

1132
01:41:48,139 --> 01:41:49,119
You know so maybe.

1133
01:41:50,528 --> 01:41:51,939
So maybe that's sort of.

1134
01:41:53,219 --> 01:41:55,649
The way that a lot of beginning to think.

1135
01:41:57,969 --> 01:41:59,659
That kind of makes me hopeful you know.

1136
01:42:01,219 --> 01:42:04,119
I don't know.
All of this makes me hopeful I would like

1137
01:42:04,119 --> 01:42:09,849
preferred to see the craft part
first to see that this is how

1138
01:42:09,849 --> 01:42:16,638
the clave feels before I think there
is just an offspring of plastic

1139
01:42:16,638 --> 01:42:21,979
rightly so I have for me that's
why I like it and also now with a.

1140
01:42:23,179 --> 01:42:26,658
Background like growing up
in a community of craft so

1141
01:42:26,658 --> 01:42:31,838
I'd like you if you come out of that and
you you have a roots in that from

1142
01:42:31,838 --> 01:42:37,209
the beginning that would not turn there
would not lead to that statement I think

1143
01:42:37,209 --> 01:42:41,469
you would still see Clay as clay or wood
as what it in metal as metal and I think

1144
01:42:41,469 --> 01:42:45,739
that it is a bit strange to communities
that we create with this three D.

1145
01:42:45,739 --> 01:42:51,009
printing first but maybe it's just me I
don't want to be dumb I leave it up here

1146
01:42:51,009 --> 01:42:56,099
if there is folks jumping in having
burning questions peace agreement us so

1147
01:42:56,099 --> 01:43:02,719
we can we can repeat them for
the camera and Sarah.

1148
01:44:15,349 --> 01:44:15,849
Yeah.

1149
01:44:16,878 --> 01:44:17,378
I mean it's.

1150
01:44:18,798 --> 01:44:20,549
So many things to say on that topic.

1151
01:44:22,099 --> 01:44:28,458
I think that there are tradeoffs in
those different like life styles.

1152
01:44:29,488 --> 01:44:35,059
I would say one thing that I almost kind
of included as in my talk as a topic but

1153
01:44:35,059 --> 01:44:36,489
then kind of stepped away from is.

1154
01:44:37,829 --> 01:44:42,279
A thing that it's taking me that
probably seems obvious when I say it but

1155
01:44:42,279 --> 01:44:43,649
it's taken me a while to.

1156
01:44:45,239 --> 01:44:51,469
To realize in a kind of concrete way for
myself is that a particular

1157
01:44:51,469 --> 01:44:57,689
pitfall of the path I've chosen is like
thinking about working as a craftsperson

1158
01:44:57,689 --> 01:45:01,929
person's very direct way of making things
that you use in your day to day life and

1159
01:45:01,929 --> 01:45:06,868
then that you're trying to sell that that
can be intellectually constraining in very

1160
01:45:06,868 --> 01:45:11,888
he in probably quite obvious ways so
I'm thinking about like how do I make

1161
01:45:11,888 --> 01:45:16,819
a pair of earrings right like OK like
it's really like earrings are great but

1162
01:45:16,819 --> 01:45:21,808
that's like a perfect
limiting box to be in and so

1163
01:45:21,808 --> 01:45:27,659
I think the particular danger of this
path is making sure there are space for.

1164
01:45:29,169 --> 01:45:31,628
For more or.

1165
01:45:32,999 --> 01:45:38,479
Open ended kind of speculative
experimental work that's like

1166
01:45:38,479 --> 01:45:43,529
what you have to be intentional about and
careful to preserve in in my current life

1167
01:45:43,529 --> 01:45:49,369
whereas the almost the kind of photo ops
it is true of the academic space where

1168
01:45:49,369 --> 01:45:54,719
all of the world work is quite speculative
and exploratory but you can often

1169
01:45:54,719 --> 01:45:58,978
lose touch with kind of reality it right
like as you say you make a project or

1170
01:45:58,978 --> 01:46:04,209
a car I feel like wave your hands and
say like yeah some people liked it or

1171
01:46:04,209 --> 01:46:08,369
I don't want to be too critical because I
think so much valid work happens there but

1172
01:46:08,369 --> 01:46:12,789
but you can be very disconnected
from the world and and and

1173
01:46:12,789 --> 01:46:14,909
something is lost when
you're disconnected from.

1174
01:46:14,909 --> 01:46:17,949
The world there's a lot of
richness that comes from for

1175
01:46:17,949 --> 01:46:22,879
example I think making objects that
are in use over extended periods of

1176
01:46:22,879 --> 01:46:27,759
time as opposed to in use for
you know a half an hour an hour a day.

1177
01:46:28,899 --> 01:46:30,038
So so.

1178
01:46:31,159 --> 01:46:35,909
So I think each particular
kind of context for work has.

1179
01:46:37,159 --> 01:46:37,799
Has.

1180
01:46:38,979 --> 01:46:40,719
Things that it emphasizes and

1181
01:46:40,719 --> 01:46:44,609
deemphasize is but all I think
they're all valid ways of working but.

1182
01:46:45,649 --> 01:46:49,609
But we should be I guess aware of
I think the limitations of and

1183
01:46:49,609 --> 01:46:55,299
what incentives of different
how they influence the worth a.

1184
01:46:58,750 --> 01:47:02,629
I completely agree when I had my business

1185
01:47:02,629 --> 01:47:06,489
one of the reasons that I decided
to close the business was because.

1186
01:47:08,190 --> 01:47:09,210
I was so.

1187
01:47:10,579 --> 01:47:14,560
Married and excited to the process so

1188
01:47:14,560 --> 01:47:18,970
I created this process I created
this like true story like and

1189
01:47:18,970 --> 01:47:23,820
I was so
excited about how the shirts were made and

1190
01:47:23,820 --> 01:47:27,190
coming up with the concepts and
like all of that that.

1191
01:47:29,390 --> 01:47:34,260
Unfortunately I was a bad business
person there was no there was no way to

1192
01:47:34,260 --> 01:47:39,160
exponentially change right so if I hired
someone to make the shirts then I wasn't

1193
01:47:39,160 --> 01:47:42,790
making money on the shirts only made
some money on the shirts that I sat and

1194
01:47:42,790 --> 01:47:45,840
actually did and
then I hired my friends and

1195
01:47:45,840 --> 01:47:49,730
I was like well I know he needs to make
this much money to like pay his rent and

1196
01:47:49,730 --> 01:47:54,529
then it was just like I was making money
I was always just breaking even and

1197
01:47:54,529 --> 01:47:57,240
then I found Akademi and
where I can just come up with ideas.

1198
01:47:59,020 --> 01:48:04,260
And like I love it you know like I prove
something works and I'm like OK this works

1199
01:48:04,260 --> 01:48:09,570
go go go go make money on that like
that really makes me happy sad but

1200
01:48:09,570 --> 01:48:14,819
so if you talk about what community so
what personal stories do making process is

1201
01:48:14,819 --> 01:48:20,650
generated by these very different
stories likely a set one is speculative

1202
01:48:20,650 --> 01:48:25,569
driving full would and and see where
whatever us next to could be next and

1203
01:48:25,569 --> 01:48:30,160
the other one is how could
this actually be real and

1204
01:48:30,160 --> 01:48:34,340
that it's not just speculated but
like be used so

1205
01:48:34,340 --> 01:48:38,969
the community of actually uses
is something that is it's a.

1206
01:48:39,999 --> 01:48:41,340
Different perspective to.

1207
01:48:42,609 --> 01:48:46,730
A lot of those things and
whatever hybrid craft us it's always

1208
01:48:46,730 --> 01:48:50,260
usually always prototyping and
it's one piece only and

1209
01:48:50,260 --> 01:48:55,060
it's really expensive and if it works
on day Monday you're lucky and and

1210
01:48:55,060 --> 01:48:57,440
that's a different idea to
what's this has to be a T.

1211
01:48:57,440 --> 01:48:59,010
shirt that actually.

1212
01:48:59,010 --> 01:48:59,960
Warm on the street.

1213
01:49:00,989 --> 01:49:05,270
One thing I would say along these
lines is I think there's some really

1214
01:49:05,270 --> 01:49:07,890
luminous like awesome example.

1215
01:49:09,409 --> 01:49:12,430
Of a success I mean in all spheres but

1216
01:49:12,430 --> 01:49:17,720
like I mean I talked about nervous
system in my presentation but

1217
01:49:17,720 --> 01:49:23,589
they stand out to me as like
a design firm that kind of

1218
01:49:23,589 --> 01:49:30,060
does a stunningly well at doing on the one
hand like groundbreaking research into

1219
01:49:30,060 --> 01:49:34,250
like computational design like they're
the at the forefront of that field and

1220
01:49:34,250 --> 01:49:39,160
that's like they're outside of academia
and they do that and on the other hand

1221
01:49:39,160 --> 01:49:44,709
like they sell like beautiful
widgets to that are affordable and

1222
01:49:44,709 --> 01:49:50,980
accessible to like that to everyone and
they are successful at the business

1223
01:49:50,980 --> 01:49:56,020
part successful enough to kind of fund
both the creation of these beautiful but

1224
01:49:56,020 --> 01:50:00,439
kind of prosaic artifacts as well as this
is really groundbreaking research so

1225
01:50:00,439 --> 01:50:05,740
I think there are some really like there
are some inspiring models out there.

1226
01:50:07,109 --> 01:50:11,170
But I do think kind of connecting

1227
01:50:11,170 --> 01:50:16,200
like the real world and doing really
groundbreaking research at the same

1228
01:50:16,200 --> 01:50:20,890
time like that's a tricky nut to crack but
I think you can but it's really tricky I

1229
01:50:20,890 --> 01:50:25,859
mean inside of academia I think there are
also examples I mean I think for example.

1230
01:50:27,510 --> 01:50:29,780
This is jumping to a slightly
different discipline but

1231
01:50:29,780 --> 01:50:34,719
again one that I know well but examples of
people doing groundbreaking work that is

1232
01:50:34,719 --> 01:50:40,219
then commercialized and they can kind of
connect to the real world in that way and

1233
01:50:40,219 --> 01:50:44,840
then some of that commercialisation
can fall back into research around for

1234
01:50:44,840 --> 01:50:49,370
example like long term use and
my cultural impact so I think.

1235
01:50:50,639 --> 01:50:53,760
You know that's what a lot
of what I found most

1236
01:50:53,760 --> 01:50:58,739
interesting about the lily pad
Arduino is the my ability to kind of.

1237
01:50:58,739 --> 01:51:03,910
As a product and then kind of study its
impact on the world like that's really

1238
01:51:03,910 --> 01:51:08,610
interesting and my former student D.G.
is now able to do kind of similar research

1239
01:51:08,610 --> 01:51:13,760
around and a paper based computing and
paper based electronics so

1240
01:51:13,760 --> 01:51:18,349
to me there are there really interesting
examples coming from both kind of

1241
01:51:18,349 --> 01:51:23,030
communities that managed to bridge that
gap but it's a tricky one to bridge and

1242
01:51:23,030 --> 01:51:27,570
there are forces that it's not natural I
think in either setting a bridge that gap.

1243
01:51:28,710 --> 01:51:31,160
There but
this is really curious so it's so

1244
01:51:31,160 --> 01:51:37,990
one of the things you talk about
here is critical making exciting but

1245
01:51:37,990 --> 01:51:41,480
the idea of making us an intellect is
part of the intellectual a critical.

1246
01:51:42,660 --> 01:51:45,080
And counter with something
that's YOUR work for

1247
01:51:45,080 --> 01:51:49,450
example with the quilts the idea of I
interpret them and I critically respond

1248
01:51:49,450 --> 01:51:54,009
to them through my own practice but as a
response to practice I think this could be

1249
01:51:54,009 --> 01:51:58,380
very nice to describe some of those
approaches where what you're saying is you

1250
01:51:58,380 --> 01:52:01,730
know that's all very well and could be
one way but at another one you would say.

1251
01:52:02,740 --> 01:52:06,960
It's almost like the economic like like
almost group Reaganomics like the them

1252
01:52:06,960 --> 01:52:13,310
isolated I can't talk about economics
I have never done a company

1253
01:52:13,310 --> 01:52:17,929
so I go or go ahead I don't need
to very busy invalidation or

1254
01:52:17,929 --> 01:52:23,100
something all of you use a functional
acceptance maybe as one where

1255
01:52:23,100 --> 01:52:27,789
I mean I don't want to cite this is
the only way that I like to do work it's

1256
01:52:27,789 --> 01:52:31,830
it's a way that's particularly
interesting to me I guess is.

1257
01:52:34,410 --> 01:52:36,289
Answering these questions of like.

1258
01:52:37,370 --> 01:52:41,920
Kind of everyday use in the real world and
and

1259
01:52:41,920 --> 01:52:46,600
and and economics being a big
part of like everyday life so

1260
01:52:46,600 --> 01:52:51,780
in terms of thinking about being
a craft person like selling objects

1261
01:52:51,780 --> 01:52:55,469
is one way to do a craft but

1262
01:52:55,469 --> 01:52:58,830
to be a crafts person that I found
kind of compelling and interesting so

1263
01:52:58,830 --> 01:53:04,151
I don't want to suggest that those
that that be using models are the only

1264
01:53:04,151 --> 01:53:08,020
models of success I guess they're ones
that I am particularly interested in

1265
01:53:08,020 --> 01:53:13,351
invested in I mean I think being much more
of like life is an artist's right that

1266
01:53:20,379 --> 01:53:24,081
values and a different way so there

1267
01:53:26,961 --> 01:53:30,621
but I do think in Gage meant
with like the real world

1268
01:53:32,620 --> 01:53:37,130
and selling like products is is one very
interesting is an interesting one and

1269
01:53:37,130 --> 01:53:42,320
I guess maybe the articulated a bit
more it's one that hasn't received

1270
01:53:42,320 --> 01:53:45,130
much academic attention but warrants it.

1271
01:53:47,198 --> 01:53:52,578
Maybe one of two Build a question
out of this is because there was one

1272
01:53:52,578 --> 01:53:58,308
difference that I kind of sense at least
where Clint was doing was how can we

1273
01:53:58,308 --> 01:54:03,349
communicate as well as
possible to actual question

1274
01:54:03,349 --> 01:54:08,599
as I was a craft the fashion
makers these new.

1275
01:54:10,219 --> 01:54:14,648
Things whatever however they
might use them in environment and

1276
01:54:14,648 --> 01:54:18,639
what widely I was seeing in her
talk issues were talked about

1277
01:54:18,639 --> 01:54:22,509
Disrupt cultural patterns I was
one of the Senate I kind of

1278
01:54:22,509 --> 01:54:27,119
just grabbed out of context that I like
A listers option but it's more it's

1279
01:54:27,119 --> 01:54:31,889
not necessarily a Smoove conversation
that I would out of there was more and

1280
01:54:31,889 --> 01:54:37,529
I forgot in what context you brought
it up but that very nicely what but

1281
01:54:37,529 --> 01:54:41,378
yes you mentioned when she had to scan
her fingerprint or whatever eye for

1282
01:54:41,378 --> 01:54:45,719
anything zero zero is
the technology this kind of.

1283
01:54:47,009 --> 01:54:50,958
It jumps to you and
kind of stops you short in your tracks and

1284
01:54:50,958 --> 01:54:56,668
says I a second Wow Do what do I do
with this with this thing that suddenly

1285
01:54:56,668 --> 01:55:01,729
overtricks my every move I get
that feeling you know I think

1286
01:55:01,729 --> 01:55:06,829
I need to kind of find a resolution for
that engagement of technology and

1287
01:55:06,829 --> 01:55:10,199
so I think that you know when
you think about mapping and

1288
01:55:10,199 --> 01:55:14,399
the way that you can be tracked in
that kind of stuff through a place

1289
01:55:14,399 --> 01:55:18,049
that's something that really
kind of hit home with me.

1290
01:55:20,479 --> 01:55:21,130
The.

1291
01:55:22,680 --> 01:55:27,060
Question mark that opens up in my brain
is whether an effective positioning

1292
01:55:27,060 --> 01:55:31,540
of technology to the craft in the case
is actually not a system you know

1293
01:55:31,540 --> 01:55:36,390
it's actually not positive it's actually
bad for you it kind of negative kind of

1294
01:55:36,390 --> 01:55:40,710
kind of you realize suddenly that
whatever you get identity theft and

1295
01:55:40,710 --> 01:55:44,759
it's part of the digital
culture as as we live in but

1296
01:55:44,759 --> 01:55:49,310
you you have this as something
to respond to through whatever

1297
01:55:49,310 --> 01:55:53,540
means they can be a hybrid they can be
single material and there's a question is.

1298
01:55:54,780 --> 01:55:59,559
Should be positioned as an as an obstacle
to overcome almost like as an exclamation

1299
01:55:59,559 --> 01:56:04,960
mark to to deal with or helping hand to

1300
01:56:07,781 --> 01:56:11,831
go forward into a new commercial or
whatever future

1301
01:56:13,720 --> 01:56:19,451
but I think maybe some of you
have problem to be something

1302
01:56:26,151 --> 01:56:28,531
I know that you try to combine so
you can hide.

1303
01:57:21,081 --> 01:57:23,741
And that technology wouldn't
be foreign right so

1304
01:57:23,741 --> 01:57:26,381
it would be inherent in that material.

1305
01:58:16,879 --> 01:58:17,379
There.

1306
01:58:20,158 --> 01:58:24,079
Well a couple of remarks on that I
mean one is just to hearken back to

1307
01:58:24,079 --> 01:58:25,469
our earlier discussion about.

1308
01:58:26,699 --> 01:58:30,579
When you work at the intersection
of disciplines like to what extent

1309
01:58:30,579 --> 01:58:33,809
do you have to be like
a hybrid person kind of and

1310
01:58:33,809 --> 01:58:38,849
I think to some extent you just have
to and so the expectation that you can.

1311
01:58:39,889 --> 01:58:44,019
And that you cannot is perhaps a.

1312
01:58:45,369 --> 01:58:49,999
And unfruitful one so that is one comment

1313
01:58:49,999 --> 01:58:53,979
that I guess I've evolved to that
point of view which isn't to say that.

1314
01:58:56,689 --> 01:59:01,129
That that you should adopt the ways
of like whatever like electrical

1315
01:59:01,129 --> 01:59:05,459
engineers because what is most interesting
about I think these intersections is

1316
01:59:05,459 --> 01:59:09,538
that in fact crafts people don't adopt
the ways of electric and engineers but

1317
01:59:09,538 --> 01:59:13,088
they find their own ways of working
kind of within that discipline and

1318
01:59:13,088 --> 01:59:18,129
it is that that strangeness that is so
exciting and interesting So

1319
01:59:18,129 --> 01:59:22,309
that's one comment the other thing I would
say specifically about electronic textiles

1320
01:59:22,309 --> 01:59:27,809
is that there are certain things just kind
of given the the current like limits of

1321
01:59:27,809 --> 01:59:32,729
material science and that like you can do
in textiles and others that you can't so

1322
01:59:32,729 --> 01:59:37,218
you can make like input devices
out of textile materials and

1323
01:59:37,218 --> 01:59:40,008
you can make output devices
out of textile materials

1324
01:59:40,008 --> 01:59:42,898
you can really make computers
out of textile materials.

1325
01:59:44,289 --> 01:59:47,809
But there are so
many I think there are just gorgeous

1326
01:59:47,809 --> 01:59:51,218
examples out there of of
how to do the inputs and

1327
01:59:51,218 --> 01:59:56,629
the outputs I mean Hannah's work is
like just which I assume you're quite

1328
01:59:56,629 --> 02:00:01,499
familiar with if you work in the spaces
it's just a gorgeous like brilliant.

1329
02:00:02,809 --> 02:00:08,898
Kind of landscape of especially
how you can construct like centers

1330
02:00:08,898 --> 02:00:13,599
using traditional textile techniques and
approaches I mean it's just like so

1331
02:00:13,599 --> 02:00:18,959
awesome and and there is more limited but
still really fascinating

1332
02:00:18,959 --> 02:00:23,319
work that's kind of analogous and how to
make output devices so I do think that.

1333
02:00:25,340 --> 02:00:29,249
Those things I mean one of their
strengths but also potential weaknesses

1334
02:00:29,249 --> 02:00:33,840
is that they're not so would you
tie the bill right and so to an X.

1335
02:00:33,840 --> 02:00:37,609
they are really less about
a product that you buy and

1336
02:00:37,609 --> 02:00:43,790
more about ways of working with
perhaps a left excess a bill and

1337
02:00:43,790 --> 02:00:50,860
less known but anyway so those are public
that I have a slightly different

1338
02:00:50,860 --> 02:00:55,000
it's not actually different at all I
completely agree with everything you say.

1339
02:00:56,360 --> 02:00:58,059
And this gets back to that.

1340
02:00:59,229 --> 02:01:03,390
Crass person designer
kind of conversation.

1341
02:01:05,360 --> 02:01:10,150
I think right now like if you're
working in an electronic textiles and

1342
02:01:10,150 --> 02:01:12,630
you're doing amazing things like Hannah

1343
02:01:12,630 --> 02:01:16,980
like you have to be a crafts
person you have to be someone who.

1344
02:01:19,008 --> 02:01:23,949
Has has a large hand in the work and
also you have to be this

1345
02:01:23,949 --> 02:01:28,969
hybrid type person like I can do these
things because I am a crafts person I

1346
02:01:28,969 --> 02:01:33,438
know how to be a craftsperson and
I and I am a hybrid type person.

1347
02:01:34,578 --> 02:01:38,359
Getting back to your question and
specifically talking about materials.

1348
02:01:39,658 --> 02:01:46,199
One of the reasons I'm so interested
in being able to explain to designers

1349
02:01:46,199 --> 02:01:51,499
why this is interesting is because
that's the that's it's a chicken and egg

1350
02:01:51,499 --> 02:01:56,739
thing right so if designers are wanting
to design with this stuff then Tech so

1351
02:01:56,739 --> 02:02:01,108
many factures aren't going to put in
effort to figure out how to make them and

1352
02:02:01,108 --> 02:02:06,029
and therefore needle manufacturers and
and the people

1353
02:02:06,029 --> 02:02:11,038
that can make conductive materials are not
going to start creating needles that will

1354
02:02:11,038 --> 02:02:15,419
that will run an embroidery machine with
so I mean like if we walked over to my lab

1355
02:02:15,419 --> 02:02:19,399
like we replace parts on the machine
to make the arms slightly different and

1356
02:02:19,399 --> 02:02:23,418
slightly different like materials so that
conductive thread will like slide through

1357
02:02:23,418 --> 02:02:28,799
the machine without all this friction but
and so

1358
02:02:28,799 --> 02:02:33,899
it's like a chain right so to get finally
get to where like you can go to the store

1359
02:02:33,899 --> 02:02:38,579
and buy a fabric that maybe does more than
just has like one conductive trace and it.

1360
02:02:40,238 --> 02:02:44,958
Requires someone that's
making something for

1361
02:02:44,958 --> 02:02:49,039
Target deciding that
that's important right so.

1362
02:02:50,119 --> 02:02:52,918
That's kind of where I'm sitting I'm
sitting on the other side trying to

1363
02:02:52,918 --> 02:03:00,738
convince designers but I also value
like secretly I love the craft

1364
02:03:00,738 --> 02:03:06,249
right I love the opportunity to have
to be like I get to make it costume for

1365
02:03:06,249 --> 02:03:10,979
a designer because the soon as I
say it's a costume then I'm able to

1366
02:03:10,979 --> 02:03:15,668
like let go of all the trappings
of like it has to be like so

1367
02:03:15,668 --> 02:03:18,939
useful and functional and
I have to know the human factors of it.

1368
02:03:18,939 --> 02:03:22,909
I can just make something that
like I can spend like two or

1369
02:03:22,909 --> 02:03:27,509
three weeks like making fun
like like loving the work of

1370
02:03:27,509 --> 02:03:32,438
making it right so
there's this kind of turmoil.

1371
02:03:33,469 --> 02:03:37,328
Like between the two a little bit so
yes and yes.

1372
02:04:28,449 --> 02:04:35,699
I think I think they are needed and it
gets back to what I was talking about but

1373
02:04:35,699 --> 02:04:41,359
as a person who's interested in
textiles and also on body interfaces

1374
02:04:41,359 --> 02:04:46,709
some of the ideas that I have have
come from like old world textile

1375
02:04:46,709 --> 02:04:52,129
manipulation techniques like smocking and
quilting and knife pleading and

1376
02:04:52,129 --> 02:04:57,328
like these tangible like textures
that you create with fabrics.

1377
02:04:58,479 --> 02:05:00,359
As humans who have had fabrics for

1378
02:05:00,359 --> 02:05:05,999
a long time we're like automatically want
to touch it and feel it investigate it and

1379
02:05:05,999 --> 02:05:11,209
figure out like how does this like get put
together which goes back to your mention

1380
02:05:11,209 --> 02:05:16,239
of like the phone like for
my generation like there's still a lot

1381
02:05:16,239 --> 02:05:21,309
of magic about what goes on in the phone
like you like touch the phone and then all

1382
02:05:21,309 --> 02:05:26,498
of a sudden it's doing what you need it
to do right but you don't you're divorced

1383
02:05:26,498 --> 02:05:31,689
from how it's actually making that happen
whereas when I look at a knife plea

1384
02:05:31,689 --> 02:05:36,599
I can look at it and figure out like like
and feel it and want to investigate it so.

1385
02:05:38,619 --> 02:05:43,099
I feel like there will always be a need
for that more humanized element.

1386
02:05:44,989 --> 02:05:49,789
Especially in as things
continue to become more mass

1387
02:05:49,789 --> 02:05:53,439
produced luxury items will
have more of a hand and.

1388
02:05:56,698 --> 02:05:57,969
A human element to them.

1389
02:06:02,219 --> 02:06:06,470
My mind there's this is about
like foundational kind of

1390
02:06:06,470 --> 02:06:09,339
educational philosophy in many ways.

1391
02:06:13,190 --> 02:06:17,040
So just a small anecdote
a really striking moment for

1392
02:06:17,040 --> 02:06:20,030
me in my in my time at MIT I was on.

1393
02:06:21,210 --> 02:06:22,300
The committee of a.

1394
02:06:23,710 --> 02:06:28,229
Material scientist animate
mechanical engineering student and

1395
02:06:28,229 --> 02:06:34,319
he was working doing really interesting
work around the like space suits.

1396
02:06:36,000 --> 02:06:42,739
That aren't like and

1397
02:06:42,739 --> 02:06:50,748
anyway it would be really nice for
astronauts that way.

1398
02:06:53,178 --> 02:06:53,678
But

1399
02:07:04,640 --> 02:07:05,360
like shape.

1400
02:07:10,019 --> 02:07:13,140
So so anyway in his committee.

1401
02:07:14,350 --> 02:07:17,290
One of his committee meetings he was
talking about all of the ways that he was

1402
02:07:17,290 --> 02:07:22,230
like a modeling like stimulating like
the different physics of like different

1403
02:07:22,230 --> 02:07:26,810
ways he could construct structures
out of night and talking about like

1404
02:07:26,810 --> 02:07:30,750
anyway different structures and
I kind of immediately aswell

1405
02:07:30,750 --> 02:07:34,519
just build them build it like it's not so
hard to build this thing just build it.

1406
02:07:35,560 --> 02:07:36,840
Another professor who is.

1407
02:07:38,250 --> 02:07:43,120
Material science professor he was like
I'm going to get this not quite right but

1408
02:07:43,120 --> 02:07:48,140
but the the essence of what he says is
like no you cannot build anything and

1409
02:07:48,140 --> 02:07:52,280
tell you model it like you need to
understand the physics you need to be able

1410
02:07:52,280 --> 02:07:56,590
to predict exactly what's going
to happen and like like to for

1411
02:07:56,590 --> 02:08:03,320
him he saw like no benefits like
building with your hands and my mind.

1412
02:08:04,899 --> 02:08:09,120
I mean I think he has a valid stance but
I think there are interesting.

1413
02:08:11,160 --> 02:08:16,730
Implications for education so to my mind
the mind and the body are connected and

1414
02:08:16,730 --> 02:08:21,620
like we make sense of the world through
our bodies as much as we do through like

1415
02:08:21,620 --> 02:08:27,930
abstract thought and to there is
kind of a recurring dialogue within

1416
02:08:27,930 --> 02:08:32,480
education about to what extent everything
should just be totally abstract and

1417
02:08:32,480 --> 02:08:38,060
to what extent like you should
engage your body with the world and

1418
02:08:38,060 --> 02:08:41,180
I mean no surprise like I fall
into the later latter camp and

1419
02:08:41,180 --> 02:08:45,800
I think there's really good evidence
just from psychology and that like we

1420
02:08:45,800 --> 02:08:51,120
are bodies we are embodied people and so
that engagement with the natural world is

1421
02:08:51,120 --> 02:08:55,889
provides us like the foundation of like
the way we make sense of the world and so

1422
02:08:55,889 --> 02:09:02,349
to eliminate physical engagement from
education is it's foolhardy and very

1423
02:09:02,349 --> 02:09:09,200
we're not going to be as capable as people
acting in the world if we subtract away.

1424
02:09:09,200 --> 02:09:13,959
Like our physical connection to it so
very long winded apologies but

1425
02:09:13,959 --> 02:09:19,610
I think there's there is yes it's
a larger philosophical kind of debate

1426
02:09:19,610 --> 02:09:23,709
I mean I teach in textiles and
I teach digital textile design but

1427
02:09:23,709 --> 02:09:27,740
I also teach how to do repeat
patterns screen printing

1428
02:09:27,740 --> 02:09:32,480
completely by hand with
no digital technology and

1429
02:09:32,480 --> 02:09:37,689
students that take the digital
class first often feel

1430
02:09:37,689 --> 02:09:43,480
at a disadvantage when they go back to
the hand and students that take the class

1431
02:09:43,480 --> 02:09:48,520
that's all hand done first they go
right into that digital class and

1432
02:09:48,520 --> 02:09:53,719
it's easy and it's easier in
a really interesting way because

1433
02:09:53,719 --> 02:09:58,110
they're thinking about how many color
separations there are in a screen and

1434
02:09:58,110 --> 02:10:02,160
they're thinking about how it might be
printed and how it might be woven and

1435
02:10:02,160 --> 02:10:06,850
that's a really really different thing
than starting with the digital and so

1436
02:10:06,850 --> 02:10:11,559
Internet to your point with education I
think it's absolutely fundamental for

1437
02:10:11,559 --> 02:10:14,069
processes like that and to understand.

1438
02:10:16,349 --> 02:10:17,610
I completely agree.

1439
02:10:19,800 --> 02:10:25,639
And what I'll touch on is also using
the hand and making as communication so

1440
02:10:25,639 --> 02:10:30,270
when we when when we monitor or
observe these like

1441
02:10:30,270 --> 02:10:35,099
groups of different types of people
working together eventually very quickly.

1442
02:10:36,470 --> 02:10:42,669
They move to paper right and that's not
just designers that's also engineers so

1443
02:10:42,669 --> 02:10:46,800
they can explain what they're doing and it
does a number of different things right so

1444
02:10:46,800 --> 02:10:53,330
if I am a textile designer and
I look at an electrical circuit

1445
02:10:53,330 --> 02:10:57,940
I may think I will that's simple it's
just like lines and triangles right but

1446
02:10:57,940 --> 02:11:02,669
if I watch an engineer think about
what I'm asking him to do or

1447
02:11:02,669 --> 02:11:09,170
her to do and see them draw slowly and
decide how many resistors.

1448
02:11:09,170 --> 02:11:11,329
Are different types of
resistors that might mean and

1449
02:11:11,329 --> 02:11:14,939
then go into like different
types of compasses and

1450
02:11:14,939 --> 02:11:19,700
if I see that happen then I know
that there's weight in thought

1451
02:11:19,700 --> 02:11:24,350
behind what's there right in the same way
as if I'm an engineer and I watch someone

1452
02:11:24,350 --> 02:11:29,410
try to decide like where does the scene go
and how does the silhouette happen that

1453
02:11:29,410 --> 02:11:33,650
that it's not just like like a dream like
you just say I'm going to make a dress and

1454
02:11:33,650 --> 02:11:39,410
there's a dress right so
watching that kind of collaboration and

1455
02:11:39,410 --> 02:11:43,190
that takes hand work right if
I popped into a computer and

1456
02:11:43,190 --> 02:11:46,379
I saw an engineer like type
a couple couple things and then and

1457
02:11:46,379 --> 02:11:51,830
then a circuit came out then that doesn't
explain the same thing in that group yeah.

1458
02:11:54,628 --> 02:11:58,308
I like the question because I think it's
too good to teach right so that was my

1459
02:11:58,308 --> 02:12:03,319
question to Lee I was for it like when
I teach a grad class it can happen that

1460
02:12:03,319 --> 02:12:08,099
it might be a grad class on it is usually
related to someone with craft and

1461
02:12:08,099 --> 02:12:11,849
something technical and digital but
no matter whether we do Clay or

1462
02:12:11,849 --> 02:12:15,039
not Clay I all direct them for
one day into the into the.

1463
02:12:16,069 --> 02:12:19,839
Paper and play center here GA taken
everybody has to get their hands dirty

1464
02:12:19,839 --> 02:12:24,809
just for the sake of getting their hands
dirty to see this is what Clay is even if

1465
02:12:24,809 --> 02:12:29,019
their project is not about Clay that's
how desperate I am to see where they can

1466
02:12:29,019 --> 02:12:32,798
get disconnected because like the little
kid thing you know it's three D.

1467
02:12:32,798 --> 02:12:37,548
printing with clay that is that is the
education going wrong when I was least for

1468
02:12:37,548 --> 02:12:40,868
me because first I would like
to understand that this material

1469
02:12:40,868 --> 02:12:44,249
comes out of the ground as ground
gets water a big stick get in and

1470
02:12:44,249 --> 02:12:48,239
that's how it feels when you make it
that's how it feels once it's fired so

1471
02:12:48,239 --> 02:12:53,029
get this first and then think about now
how do I put a circuit on that if I need

1472
02:12:53,029 --> 02:12:57,868
to if I don't have to leave it but
if I want to use whatever a cup for

1473
02:12:57,868 --> 02:13:01,349
something different how can
I take it from there and

1474
02:13:01,349 --> 02:13:05,078
other than the standard it's
made out of ceramics and

1475
02:13:06,618 --> 02:13:10,698
other pluck macho AIDS is then we have so

1476
02:13:10,698 --> 02:13:14,128
I'm exception here we have you
hopefully have a talk about bits and

1477
02:13:14,128 --> 02:13:19,757
pieces of that So yes I would love to have
an answer to the question from one from

1478
02:13:19,757 --> 02:13:24,248
the teacher's point of view to see how can
I make my class allow for that and one

1479
02:13:24,248 --> 02:13:27,098
of the things we've been talking about for
example is collaborate and I for example

1480
02:13:27,098 --> 02:13:31,638
Clint work with Catherine Helen Fisher
one of what this strange costume and

1481
02:13:31,638 --> 02:13:33,598
Michael my glasses work also with his.

1482
02:13:34,858 --> 02:13:39,587
Autists to get the input and
collaboration with them just to

1483
02:13:39,587 --> 02:13:44,197
get into the hat the different perception
and this is they look at the garment.

1484
02:13:45,227 --> 02:13:53,128
Parts completely differently and
how do I even get it has got lots.

1485
02:15:37,119 --> 02:15:40,608
I mean I was going to ask you
where you felt fine art felt

1486
02:15:40,608 --> 02:15:44,088
in that mix because you were
talking about the Crossman and

1487
02:15:44,088 --> 02:15:46,239
designers and
I was going to ask you what you thought.

1488
02:15:47,308 --> 02:15:50,839
But I feel like you might as
sort of position that already

1489
02:15:50,839 --> 02:15:55,209
Yeah like that that knowledge I think
is is something that comes from

1490
02:15:55,209 --> 02:15:59,519
working with my hands under standing
the work of the hands of others and

1491
02:15:59,519 --> 02:16:05,779
that sort of empathy that's built
in to that that I really enjoy but

1492
02:16:05,779 --> 02:16:10,799
to me To me that's where fine
art would shine is that type of.

1493
02:16:12,209 --> 02:16:12,768
Sort of.

1494
02:16:13,809 --> 02:16:17,219
Communication that's
different with separate.

1495
02:16:18,689 --> 02:16:21,998
Interests without necessarily
being tied to utility.

1496
02:16:23,129 --> 02:16:27,639
And tied to like having to think about
economics in the marketplace of these

1497
02:16:27,639 --> 02:16:32,658
things and you know how do I sell them and
where do they go in what test

1498
02:16:32,658 --> 02:16:37,439
is them as success you know
because I don't have an answer for

1499
02:16:37,439 --> 02:16:40,448
like what tests my work
is success rate like

1500
02:16:40,448 --> 02:16:45,379
I don't know that I'll ever communicate
to the makers of the quilts and that's.

1501
02:16:46,609 --> 02:16:52,289
This is of the work isn't
dependent on that taking place so

1502
02:16:52,289 --> 02:16:58,169
it's sort of like I'm OK with
that mystery you know how do you.

1503
02:16:59,589 --> 02:17:01,618
How do you think.

1504
02:17:04,109 --> 02:17:05,499
I don't know quite how to frame that but.

1505
02:17:07,059 --> 02:17:11,979
What if you were starting from
a mass produced objects like say

1506
02:17:11,979 --> 02:17:16,929
instead of finding quilts I mean in this
is a certain question like mediately But

1507
02:17:16,929 --> 02:17:22,249
what I'm trying to do a thought experiment
but so what is so kind of vocative and

1508
02:17:22,249 --> 02:17:26,169
powerful about the work as the fact that
there is this presence of the other person

1509
02:17:26,169 --> 02:17:31,099
as you say so I'm trying to imagine
like if you take that away is there

1510
02:17:31,099 --> 02:17:36,839
anything left like work with for you so
like a mass produced like Target.

1511
02:17:36,839 --> 02:17:41,298
Thing or like a piece of electronics
from like the sixty's or

1512
02:17:41,298 --> 02:17:47,428
something yeah not to me and
right yeah I mean I I just feel like

1513
02:17:47,428 --> 02:17:52,768
that's sort of the one sort of area that
fine art kind of has in this Congress.

1514
02:17:55,328 --> 02:17:59,929
You know but that seems like an
interesting question I mean because it's

1515
02:17:59,929 --> 02:18:02,818
you know thinking about those objects
because certainly people have

1516
02:18:03,818 --> 02:18:10,219
relationships to things in that way for
a particular period or or history that.

1517
02:18:11,299 --> 02:18:15,159
Well they have a history with that style
or that object or or something like that

1518
02:18:15,159 --> 02:18:19,518
and I think that that's that's a very
real sentiment whether it's a quilter not

1519
02:18:19,518 --> 02:18:24,139
just carry with inherently that
like high sentimentality level

1520
02:18:30,140 --> 02:18:32,340
last answer and the story have to get out.

1521
02:18:35,699 --> 02:18:36,199
Of

1522
02:19:10,810 --> 02:19:13,139
different skill levels
too which is interesting

1523
02:19:54,150 --> 02:19:57,659
just to talk a little bit about that
reflection which I think is so.

1524
02:19:58,839 --> 02:20:03,190
Important to keep in mind that like
my experience of going to China and

1525
02:20:03,190 --> 02:20:06,550
visiting factories where people
were making electronics.

1526
02:20:07,580 --> 02:20:12,020
Is so interesting and what it kind of
boils down to in many ways is like there.

1527
02:20:13,440 --> 02:20:18,239
There is this other distinction of
like when a human is cheated like

1528
02:20:18,239 --> 02:20:22,290
the factory worker is is
you know historically.

1529
02:20:23,540 --> 02:20:26,190
It's not a very differently
than the craftsperson and

1530
02:20:26,190 --> 02:20:30,629
there are accorded a lot less status
in society they certainly are not

1531
02:20:30,629 --> 02:20:35,370
paid nearly as highly not as respected
like there's that just the but

1532
02:20:35,370 --> 02:20:39,030
the role of IT is not as though
people are absent they are.

1533
02:20:41,080 --> 02:20:47,099
Devalued and yeah and for
God in trouble in ways so

1534
02:20:47,099 --> 02:20:51,099
yeah I think the politics of this is
something we could have a whole nother

1535
02:20:51,099 --> 02:20:55,419
like several after the fact of
the Laura said William Morris argument.

1536
02:20:57,389 --> 02:21:00,558
We want to be one so that even after
a couple of hours of discussion that you

1537
02:21:00,558 --> 02:21:04,679
know first of all let me thank
you very much to our panel just

1538
02:21:04,679 --> 02:21:07,868
Glenn thank you very much for coming and
thank you for this cause and thank you for

1539
02:21:07,868 --> 02:21:13,589
you know me please come again March
the eighth year again to have a visit and

1540
02:21:13,589 --> 02:21:16,699
you have another panel
on ceramic artists so

1541
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if I'm your friend I thank you very much
and I'll see you in a couple of weeks.