This is a Living History interview with Colonel Joseph Ambrose Thornton and Virginia Garrison Thornton. 

Colonel is from the class of 1934 at Georgia Tech, conducted by Marilyn Summers on August the 22nd of the year 2000. 

The subject of our interview is his life in general, his experience at Georgia Tech, and their life together. We are at their home in LaGrange, Georgia, and we are delighted to be here with you today. 

I'm going to call you Colonel and Virginia, as you've asked, and I'm looking forward to hearing the story. 

Now, Colonel's going to tell me first where he was born and when he was born, and wherever he needs help, Mrs. Thornton is right there to lend it, Virginia. 

Now tell me, sir, where were you born? 

In Elmett County, Georgia. And when? 24 December 1911. 

So you were a Christmas Eve baby. It was that, and it's awful at Christmas. Nobody recognizes it. Oh, were you neglected your whole life? 

Is that what you're going to tell me? 

Poor little boy. And Virginia is saying, ain't no way. Because you've made a point of that, haven't you? 

That is right. 

So you grew up in a small town in South Georgia? 

No, no, no. Where is Elbert County? 

I don't know where it is. Northeast Georgia, near Athens. Near Athens, okay. And what did your daddy do for a living? 

He was a salesman, an owner, store owner. He owned a department store. Yeah, a department store. Sometimes they had an individual store, just like people did back in those days. What was the name of the store? 

One of them was Willi Thornton. None of them was just Oscar Thornton when he was out on his own. He was a busy man, huh? 

Yeah, he had to make a living. It was hard back then. and you had how many brothers and sisters one brother and one sister were they older than you younger younger so you were the oldest one that's right and you had a lot of responsibilities helping with the well I don't you know how it is who we did all we could for each other and tell me a little bit about your mama well she was a woman that all she did was working the house and yard but she worked hard and she worked hard she loved anything that was always into doing things and watching out for her children and she made a promise to herself and to the public that she would go send her boys to college so you grew up knowing you were going to college so I picked Georgia Tech and my brother went to Georgia. Oh, it was a house divided, huh? 

Half and half. What made you pick Georgia Tech? 

They had just won the game. Oh, you had serious reasons for doing this. In California. Yeah, it was that Rose Bowl game. Yes. 

You heard that on the, did you listen to it on a crystal set or read about it in the paper? 

How did you know? 

It was a kind of crystal set. 

He built it? 

You built your own set? 

Yeah, he got a party in a part there and built it together so we could hang around and listen. 

So you got yourself all worked up because they were champions, huh? 

Yeah. You were going where the golden tornado came from. And that would have been in 1929? 

Yeah, 1929, right. It started school. The Rose Bowl game was one of course on New Year's Day of 1929. 

It was 28, wasn't it? 

Well, it was the 28 Rose Bowl, but I think it was actually on January the 1st, wasn't it? 

Oh, yes. Yeah, so we were already into 29. And you were going to high school in the Athens area then? 

No, no, in Elberton. Oh, you had moved, your family had moved to Elberton. I had a good school and good teachers. Were you a good student? 

Well, I went. 

But did you like it? 

I didn't object at all to going to school. 

In fact, I liked it, and after school, my mother let me go out in the woods and hunt birds or whatever it is that we could do. 

So would you say you had a pretty happy coming up time? 

I certainly did. You did. And then it became time to go to Georgia Tech. Yes. Yes. And you were going away from home. Yes. 

Do you remember how you got there? 

Uh, we had, my daddy had an old Chevrolet and he let me use it for a while and carry my little trunk. You had a little trunk you brought down? 

To school. Did you know what you were getting into? 

No, but I had seen pictures and heard people talk. 

So you were excited about going to school? 

Had you ever been to Atlanta before? 

Yes, but only on a business trip or a fun trip. And occasionally we'd go to some football game up there with the schools. 

But he'd been away from home quite a way. 

He was a loner, to tell you the truth, because he'd been to CMTC, the civilian military training camp in Charleston, South Carolina, and he had really, he enjoyed that very much. It's the way he got into the Signal Corps. I see. 

When he got into the CMTC, why, they put him in charge of communications, and so that's the way he wound up when he finally chose his career in the Signal Corps. All right. 

So when you came to Georgia Tech, you chose electrical engineering. Yes. That was tough. 

Well, I don't know whether it's tough or not. I did a lot of play things, you know. You did a lot of play things? 

I got in trouble every now and then with the women. Oh, well, this is going to be a good story. 

Now I've got to really settle down here. Let's talk about your freshman year at Georgia Tech. You moved into the Knowles dormitory. Regular school. Yeah. And right away you got a taste of what it was going to be like to go to school. And how did you do that first year? 

Okay? 

Well, yes. Very good. Yeah, good grades? 

Went into the co-op, especially for the money part. Yeah. Because that was going to pay you some money. You could earn some money while you were taking time off to go and then back and forth. And the first year I wasn't given a job by the co-op department. They suggested that I get out on my own, so I went to a taxi, black and white, I think it was. It was a yellow cab company with Bell Isle. No, I didn't wear yellow. Bell Isle. 

So I drove a cab. 

So right off the bat, after you had finished your first year, when it came to your first co -op quarter, you had to find your own job. 

Who was in charge of the co-op program then? 

Do you remember the name of who it was? 

I don't right off. I'm not too sure either. Was it Ajax? 

I'm not sure if Ajax was around yet, Dean Ajax. No. That name didn't mean it. No, no. 

But he was good. He just couldn't find yourself. And after that first year, he got it covered very nicely. Okay. 

So you went off to be a cab driver for your first semester. in Atlanta and I got to go see Al Capone. You did? 

Some guy jumped in my cab and wanted to go see him and I said I don't know what to do. He said well you go out to the Federal Pen. Federal Pen. 

So we went and we got to see him. You did? 

I didn't shake his hand. 

But you saw him, though, huh? 

Then everybody wanted to look up to famous people. Uh-huh. 

Did we have very many famous people in Atlanta? 

Did you have to learn your way around the city? 

Because you didn't know Atlanta very well. Yes, didn't have anybody to guide. 

But young people normally are very curious. Also, honey, Atlanta wasn't that big back then. we had a population of 250,000 people but still there were a lot of streets to learn no problem no problem you caught on quick huh and so you drove for that first quarter yeah and then you had to come back to school again yes now was that a problem for you going back and forth like that no it wasn't in fact it It seems to just fit my, I want to know what's that around the hill or what's doing somewhere else. 

So you like that just fine, having the variety. Didn't object at all. Did you join the ROTC the first time when you first came? 

Yes. And the ROTC would cooperate with the co -ops then, so it was okay for you to be on again on it. The Signal Corps would. That's the reason that they wound up in the Signal Corps. 

It was like taking studies at Georgia Tech, not just the saluting and the marching and things like that. And it went along with his electrical engineering courses at Georgia Tech. 

So that worked out real fine for you then. 

I don't recall the man's name, but he was a regular Army Signal Corps man, and that made it nice for us too. Do you remember any of your professors at all? 

Not all, probably not, and I haven't reviewed it. 

But you haven't, but you remember it as being not a difficult time and enjoying it. That is right. Did you have a social life? 

No, not then. 

The first year you didn't? 

We'd gang up and, you know, go out to accommodate, whoever had a car. And the varsity. Yeah. The varsity was just coming along then. 

Oh, it was, it wasn't called of our city, it was called Yellow Jacket? 

Yeah, we called it that, I think. What was the campus like? 

Oh, it was very nice as far as we were concerned. Right there on the hill. We lived in a private home while we were going to. You told me you were in a boarding house over on Williams Street. Yeah. Part of the time. I think it's 612 or some number like that. 646 Williams. Oh, there you go. Virginia remembers that, huh? 

Long gone now. See, we weren't allowed. The girls weren't allowed in the boarding houses. 

All right, let's take a minute now and hear about how Virginia came up, okay? 

So you tell me where you were born and when you were born, Virginia. I was born at 254 East Pine Street, Atlanta, Georgia, January the 24th, 1915. 

Okay, and where did you go to school? 

I went to school elementary Samuel Martin Inman. 

I went to junior high, Bass Junior High, and I graduated from Girls High School in Atlanta, Georgia with one of the best educations anybody ever had. You had a good time in high school. Yes. Yeah, you enjoyed that. I was a basketball player. You were? 

I was one of the meanest basketball players Girls High has ever seen. 

Now, should I believe her, Colonel? 

You can believe her, but a little bit, you know. 

Now, we played girls' rules, as you know. The guards stayed at a certain place. You didn't go all over the court. 

But I had a good one because I was a sinner. Oh, you were. And I could just hit anybody on either side. 

So you loved that, didn't you? 

I loved basketball. 

And after you graduated from high school, you chose to go to an interesting school for some further education. Yes. Tell me about the Atlanta Opportunity School. 

They had decided that a lot of us could not afford the professional schools for business people, and so they set up the Atlanta Opportunity School. and it was financed by Riches, Davison Paxson, J. P. Allen, Muses. The big companies in Atlanta helped finance the Atlanta Opportunity School. You paid $1 and if you made the honor roll, all A's, when you got out, you got your dollar back. I took typing, shorthand, bookkeeping, and business arithmetic. And how long did you go to the opportunity? 

We went one year plus three months. And did you get your dollar back? 

I got my dollar back. Good for you. And what was your social life like in Atlanta? 

I was a Georgia Tech girl from way back. Aha. Ah, so she was there before you were, maybe. Yeah, she was a buttermilk. She was a buttermilk. Tell me about that. We called the junior high and senior high girls and all buttermilks when we were coming up. And I have, I don't know, I've just got memories of beautiful young men who went to Georgia Tech. No one ever tried anything out of the ordinary with me. and my mother trusted every single one of them. 

So it was just a fun place to go? 

It was a real fun, and I'm talking about fun, place to be. Did you go to the football games and the dances? 

I sure did. 

Now, your dance, you're going to run up on the dining hall dances every Friday night. one Friday night I was dressed in a gorgeous dark red velvet ball gown and I turned around and someone had tapped me on the shoulder and said my name is Ambrose Thornton and I said my name is Virginia Garrison and we danced a while and he can tell you what he said. What did you say, darling? 

That's the girl I'm going to marry. Did you really say that? 

First time? 

To her, too. You told it right to her face? 

Mm-hmm. Oh, my goodness. It's either stay all together or split early. 

And my answer was, that is the most stuck-up, egotistical young man I have met since I was in Georgia Tech. Who is he telling you that? 

And you were at the Britain Dining Hall for this dance. That's right. We were at the dining hall. And you as much as knew, right by looking at her, you wanted to marry her? 

That's right. Love at first sight. Yes. She was gorgeous, huh? 

I didn't like him. You didn't like him to start with? 

But you were stuck up. You weren't stuck up. You were just quiet. That's the way to put it. You were just quiet, weren't you? 

And she was a real lively talkative. 

Well, we got along pretty well after that. 

Yeah? 

Didn't take you long to convince her? 

I had no automobile, so you had to find somebody that had an automobile. 

If you were going anywhere. 

And that was what was so nice because I just loved the fellow who drove the automobile and had the car, and so I dated him, Ambrose Thornton, so I could be in the car with the guy that was on the car. Virginia, you were awful. I know. What was his name? 

What was the other guy's name? 

Leslie West. Leslie West. Lived on 16th Street, 14th. And he was nice enough to let you double date with him, huh? 

No, he double dates. 

But it all changed. He kind of got... January the 1st, we were sitting in the Fox Theater. 

We had watched the New Year's Eve movie and then came on the New Year's decorations and all the balloons and everything. And he turned around to me and said, Will you wait for me? 

He has never asked me to marry him. He asked you to wait for him. 

Well, because he was still a senior at Georgia Tech. How many years did you date? 

How long did you court? 

A year and a half. 

So you didn't even meet him then until he was already in his junior year. That is correct. 

What was he doing prior to that? 

Did you do some investigating to find out who he was going around with? 

No. No, you never saw him until that time. I had a few phone calls from other girls that wanted to know how I got him. You did, huh? 

He was a catch. I had a phone call the night I was dressed as a bride on the way to the church. Somebody wanted to know how you got here. And somebody wanted to know, I don't understand why you are walking down the aisle. It should have been me. Oh, my goodness. My first name was Laura. 

So you would have met, started dating in 1932 maybe? 

Mm-hmm. 32 and you were still going to school and you were still co-oping so let's let's go back to his co-oping jobs tell me what some of the other co -oping jobs might have been where else did they send you to work what kind of experiences did you tell me about the pipeline amber staunton oh yes one of them was a construction job a pipeline from from Louisiana to Columbus, Georgia. And we, when we were working, we would go join it. And one time it was from Centerville and we worked together going to Georgia. 

And of course they carried us out on the truck and of course they had white and black on the truck workers. and it was my habit every now and then to pick up a snake and I'd get on the truck and when I felt the rise I'd just give it to somebody else. Oh my goodness. It caused a little bit of a flurry I bet. And once it didn't work so I quit that. You were a tease, huh? 

Yes. Oh boy, buddy went running. It is out of Fennerville, Alabama, by the way. 

So did you learn a lot about construction when you were on that pipeline? 

No, and yes, you're bound to learn a little on that. 

But I think the best thing was the experience where you could figure that when you were turned loose to get a job on your own, which avenue that you would like to pursue. 

Okay, so it did give you that exposure to trying some different careers. And that was the best thing you think out of it then, huh? 

To me, it was. Can you think of any other jobs you had? 

The Georgia Power Company. You must not forget the Georgia Power Company. Yes. Oh, they did have you come back again and again to that. Yes, yes. He counted streetcars. You counted them? 

Yes. The people on the streetcars. Oh, you counted them. And he learned to just look to see how many were not seated. In other words, the seats that were vacant. And he subtracted that from the number. And even if there were two and three passing at one time, he very seldom ever made a mistake. And he was down at Peachtree and Baker for a while. 

And he found out that I was riding the streetcar from my Trust Company of Georgia job down to 1088 Hudson Drive. 

And so he asked him, could he be transferred over to the corner there of Peachtree and Houston Street? 

And so he could count me on the streetcar and wave to me as I went by every afternoon. 

How about that? 

That was part of your courting ritual, huh? 

Well, she changed later because I was at Five Points. I had to ride the bus then. And she rode the bus, and I had the counter there. You had the counter there, huh? 

Well, that was a funny little courtship ritual you went through. That way you always knew where she was, too. 

You could keep track of her, huh? 

And, of course, when the Tech Wonder Football game, we had a Saturday night parade down Peachtree. 

Has anybody ever mentioned to you the Shirttail Parade? 

Yeah, I want you to tell me about it, though. What was your experience with the Shirttail Parade? 

Did you ever go? 

I don't remember how it is. Oh, yes, uh-huh. I wasn't, I don't remember that, but anyway. You don't remember the parades? 

Yes, I was there. You were in them, you remember them very well. 

Okay, so Tech won the game and then everybody would just spontaneously, just all pile up? 

Just get together and go down to Peachtree, down and go through town. Always in a big line together? 

And when we got to town, some of the gang went through this hotel. Can't think of a show place. But, you know, the hotels were so nice. They knew they were coming, the Henry Grady. It was a tradition, I think. And they would open up so that they would have a complete route through the hotels. It was really a lot of fun. It was a lot of fun. Noisy? 

Oh, yes, it was quite noisy. Oh, yes, it was really noisy. Everybody screaming and hollering. Did they used to sing, maybe sing Ramblin'' Rack? 

Oh, yeah, that popped in every now and then. It's the people that make the noises. Who would take the lead in something like that? 

No, if I don't record. I think it's just get together. Just to get together, real spontaneous. And suddenly when you get together, you have to track to others and put a good line after a while. After a while, it could be several hundred people even. Yeah, yeah. Just plowing down Peachtree Street. Especially if we won. Especially if you won, yeah. You remember those as good times? 

Oh, yes. Definitely. 

Now, when you two started dating, did you go to the football games? 

Oh, yes. Yes. He also, believe it or not, was on the football team. You were? 

Now, wait a minute. 

But the reason he was on it was they selected him. He was tall. He was as tall as he is now, and he was as big as he is now. And they used him. They didn't have those dummies that you run into. They had the boys stand up and you ran into them and they broke his leg very, very bad. Oh no! And he wound up. They used you for a training dummy, is that what you're saying? 

Yes, that's exactly what happened. Let's say the coach was Mac... Mac... Alexander? 

No. 

Well, he was overall, but our group was still there. his son, by golly his son lives here in the county. I can't remember. 

Well anyway. 

But you actually got your leg broken? 

He sure did. And they had to put it in a cast and everything? 

He stayed in that. He was in the Georgia Tech Infirmary. Oh. And that's when he decided he wasn't going to do that no more. No I think one, that sounds like one experience was more than enough. Yeah. 

So that was a short football career. And also I worked in a mine, where they mined granite, little small pieces. 

That was another one of your jobs? 

And I went into that with a lot of joy, but I quit that very quickly because of breathing and all. Oh, you could feel that it was damaging your lungs. See, you learn a lot on taking a job just for a little while. Yeah. Stay just long enough to get a taste of it and move on, huh? 

Which you don't want or do want. 

Well, by the time you met him, had he already had broken his leg and recovered by then? 

Oh, yes. Oh, okay. That was the early days. Yes, the early days. That was the early days. 

So in 1932 and 1933, when you were courting Virginia, it would be a routine thing for you to go to a football game. Oh, yes. 

And how about the big dances that they had? 

Did you take her to dances? 

Yes, we went to the dances. We sure did. 

His senior year, we led, with Tom Siegler, who was the other cadet colonel co-op, we and his wife, Mary, we led the whole thing through those cross sabers. Oh. I've never been as proud. That was pretty exciting. I think that not only it was military, but it was Georgia Tech. Do you remember what you were wearing? 

I sure do. I bet you do. 

It was a white, beautiful, white satin dress fitted very, very tight in the waist and had red velvet sleeves on it. And my mother, bless her heart, had put a beautiful red rose right up here on that white satin. 

And when he brought me the corsage to wear that night, I'm awfully sorry, but I couldn't take that rose off. You kept the red rose. 

So I was about the first one at Georgia Tech that went with a wristlet of flowers on. And everybody thought it was a beautiful idea. 

And the next thing you know, because their flowers were getting crushed with dances, they were taking them off and putting them on their wrist. 

Well, you started a good trend then. I sure did. 

Did they used to have dance cards in those days where you filled out the dance cards? 

Or could you go and just dance with Ambrose the whole night? 

Oh, we had just the cut-ins. We didn't have any of that. You were going to dance with the same people. Oh, so you got to dance with everything. And I was, believe it or not, I was popular. I'm going to believe that. I'm sure you were. She was talking all the time. 

Well, did you do cuttings? 

So you got to see some of the other women folk? 

Yes, it was a regular. It didn't. We didn't. Everybody had the same wine. It was a beautiful time of life. Everybody had fun. It was something that you wouldn't leave. Would you go out for dinner before or after? 

We didn't drink. I think we didn't, it wasn't any of that, it was just fun. Fun. 

And where did you go, like did you go out to eat afterwards or beforehand? 

What would be the tradition for social life? 

We wound up at the varsity. Oh, you'd end up at the varsity? 

Yeah. Because they were so nice. They'd have a special place for like the military and the graduating class to come up and eat. Did you ever meet Frank Gordy there? 

Did you ever see him around? 

Yes, goodness. Yes. Got to know him, did you? 

We sure did. 

So between the Varsity and the Fox Theater, you had a pretty nice social life then? 

Yes. 

Well, how did you make a decision to get married? 

Was it before you graduated or after? 

It was before we graduated. Oh, you got married before graduation? 

No, no, no. We married afterwards. 

One of his cousins was Senator Russell, and he told Amherst to go ahead and take his military commission, but he also had him a job with the Federal Power Commission. Okay. 

So he worked for the Federal Power Commission. 

So graduation was, did you get commissioned then as an officer? 

Uh-huh. 

Okay, you did. 

So you got commissioned and you graduated. Where did they have graduations in those days? 

Oh, you did go to the Fox. Boy, the Fox was the center of everything. 

Well, they were a little bit more open than they are now. And there was more room. There was plenty of room in there. And the orchestra would come up. Next thing you know, you're getting your first salute, huh? 

And he was making a fabulous salary. He was making $105 a month. That was pretty good. Not as good as it could have been. It was **** good then. You were getting by? 

For a boy like me. Yeah, you were real happy for that. 

So where was the first place that you lived after you got married? 

Washington, D. C. 

Okay, so right off the bat you had to move then, huh? 

Yes, Washington, D. C. Once you got married, did you get to have a honeymoon and everything? 

No, no. You just moved right to Washington? 

We didn't have the money. No money. We married at Druid Hills Methodist Church in Atlanta. Okay. Did you marry in your uniform? 

No. No. No, just a regular wedding then. November 23rd, 1935. You got married. We got married. 

So he was out of school for a whole year before you got married. He stayed at the Henry Grady that night. And then the next day, we went out to my mother's for breakfast. And then at 3 o'clock that afternoon, we were on a train going to Washington, D. C. 

So you didn't have a car with you then? 

You went by train? 

No, no, no. And you went to work for the Federal Power Commission. 

And what happened? 

How long did you stay with them? 

Until he went, they called him up because he was not, he was reserved, but he had signed up and all. 

So they called him up in 1940. The war was underway. It was before Pearl Harbor, and you knew you were going to have to go in. 

And where was your first assignment? who knows Tullahoma, Tennessee Camp Forest may I say something that I know that the others around our age and World War II are going to appreciate yes he was in the service he was at Camp Forest Tullahoma, Tennessee he was in uniform he was Signal Corps and on Sunday December the 7th, 1941, we had had our second child, and I had joined him, and we were sitting around the dinner table listening to Sammy K. And they said, we wish to interrupt this program. We are at war. Stop and think. You're with your family. Your husband is in uniform. and they tell you we are at war. It was a pretty scary time for you, I'm sure. It was a time that I will never forget, never. Pretty scary, I'm sure. 

But you had five years before you actually had to go active in the military. Very few people did. 

So you did have a good time to get to know each other really well. We had two children. And you found your first, your first child was born in 1940? 37. 37. Okay. And the second one in 39 or 40? 40. Yeah, okay. 

And what happened then, Virginia? 

Did you go back to, come back to Atlanta? 

I went back home to mother. To Atlanta. And he went to war. He was gone, 46 months. Wow. I did not lay eyes on him. Oh, really? 

The whole hour? 

Four years. Four years. No furloughs? know anything? 

No, he was in Northern Ireland. I lived it as well as he did. 

What I mean is every letter that came, I lived that letter. People learned to write letters, didn't they? 

Oh yes. You were in Northern Ireland? 

Yes, four years in Ulster. 

Well, for goodness sake. Right now, they are having differences of opinion and have had for many, many years. Hundreds of years. Protestants and the Catholics. 

What was your duty? 

What were you stationed in Ulster for? 

I was stationed there to control all of the... We had a huge antenna system there to send messages back to Atlanta. Atlanta, that was one of them. but all of the military in the States and vice versa. 

So it was a communication center then. Troops going overseas went into Northern Ireland first. See orientation and learn a little about what they should be doing later on that and so forth. 

You've got to remember now that Northern Ireland was part of britain of course where ireland was neutral right and as he flew over because he went to england quite a bit back and forth if anything had happened and the plane had come down in ireland he would have been held prisoner i mean you know very very risky but did you know he was in ireland you knew where he was located yes i also knew that he was not in plymouth i mean that he was in Plymouth, England when he was in Plymouth for the simple reason that I got the letter. 

We've never driven anything but Chevrolets, and I got a letter saying, and how is the Plymouth doing? 

I knew good enough where he was there. 

So you had good little codes that you can understand. And so you were back in Atlanta with your family, raising the two children. And working for the American Red Cross as a nurse's aide at Lawson General Hospital. 

Well, good for you. That was a volunteer effort? 

I have never taken a dime. 

I got my 25-year pen in 1962, I think it was, and I've never taken a dime for my service to my country. That's wonderful. 

So you were serving just as well as he was serving. I tried to join, and they wouldn't let me because I had two children. 

Well, of course. 

Now, and can I tell you one of my experiences? 

Please do. 

We were on the floor at Lawson General Hospital taking temper tours and winding up wounds and things like that. 

When the word came that they wanted 25 nurses to volunteer to fly to Jacksonville, Florida, one of our troop ships had been bombed off of the shore of Jacksonville and it was filled with oil and was on fire and that they knew so what they did they got bathtubs from the plumbing companies in Atlanta and brought them out to the C -130s and did them to the floor of the airplanes and filled them with tannic acid jelly and we flew one nurse to each bathtub and we flew from there to Jacksonville and landed as close to the beach as we possibly could in that great big airplane and they brought those boys ashore that had come up. I had one in the bathtub of mine that was black from his head to his feet. He had been burned so badly. Oh, my. 

And I want everybody to know that with that undertaking, we saved 90 % of those young men that we brought back. By putting them in that tub of jelly, it kept them from their pain as much. That's right. Isn't that it? 

I wonder whoever dreamed up that idea. That was interesting. We never did know. 

So, all I can tell you is, thank goodness for the plumbers, plumbing companies, who donated their bathtubs. Right. That was quite a big adventure for you. Did your mama watch the children while you went off to do that? 

Oh, yes. See, I worked mostly at night. Mother worked during the day. 

So you took turns with the children. 

However, now, stop and think, we've always had help. Yeah. 

Well, it was sharing. Everybody was working and sharing. 

So your mother worked in the day. You watched the kids. She watched them at night. And I had Louise, my help. Oh, God bless her. She's gone now. 

But I tell you, that was the sweetest, dearest colored person I've ever known in my life. She loved Joe Jr. better than anything that you've ever seen in your life. 

And she went to Fort Leavenworth with us I mean she just went all over everywhere with us and helped keep house with you and I loved her and so you were gone for four year almost four years yes ma'am and all you could do was send letters and send pictures of the kids yeah and finally the war was over and you had enough points so you could come home well you must have had a million points from being gone that long well Well, I'll tell you, Signal Corps didn't have a whole lot of officers. 

So he was very important. And that's communications and all. 

When did you become a colonel? 

At what point in the game? 

Combat Surveillance Agency in Washington, D. C. He had been a lieutenant colonel 14 years. 

But during the war he was... Let's don't go into the real sad part. he got torpedoed as you know that means that there's somebody above you that writes a lie on your record and when they did that then he just kept getting passed over. That happened a long time after the war though. Yes. We're still back at the Warriors. When did they start calling you Smokey Joe? 

On the Tech campus I think is the first one. First time you got called Smokey Joe was on the tech panel. He always had a pipe in his mind. Oh, is that how that came about? 

It wasn't necessarily lit, but you just had a pipe. 

Well, every now and then there was that one. One of the most distinguished-looking young men you've ever seen. 

But he was stuck up. No, he was quiet. That's it. That's it, exactly. The quiet man. Yeah, the quiet man. 

So they start calling you Smokey Joe because you had the pipe in your mouth all the time. Okay. 

But then that transferred over to the military too, or was it just at Tech? 

Just at Tech. 

Oh, by the time you got in the military, they were just calling you Joe? 

Yeah, everything had changed, background, everything else. 

So when you were in the military, you were just Joe? 

Mm-hmm. And see, he was a major for only eight months. He joined George Patton's bunch in Europe and France. 

Oh, so you didn't stay in Ireland the whole—you were in Ireland part of the time then? 

Well, most of the time. And then you went on with the Patton? 

No, I didn't go with him. Oh, you didn't? 

But he was attached. You were attached to that unit. Attached to them. And Patton says... 

Well, he and I ran around a little bit. There's no signal officer of mine. He wasn't fighting. He was there. Just going to be a major. 

So they made him a lieutenant colonel. Ah. Took us a year for the... You ran around with Patton? 

I mean, he's a pretty famous man you were running around with. You have to go down to the club or something, you know. 

So you got to rub elbows with him, huh? 

Guess who his roommate was most of the time. I can't even imagine. Tell me who you were. The chaplain. Oh, you've roomed with the chaplain? 

Oh, the chaplain was almost always in my room. I don't know why. 

Well, that was good. That's the reason I knew he was behaving. Yeah, he was on the straight and narrow. I should say. I can truthfully say that I had no problems. 

Well, that's wonderful. Do you remember how exciting it was to come back? 

Yes and no. You tell this story. 

I told her that I was coming in on a train, what time I was going to be in Atlanta, and get out of that train. Fort May 1st. And when I arrived and got there and got to the haunted place, she wasn't there. 

Well, where was she? 

And I, like a fool, stood there an hour waiting for her. Oh, my gosh. 

So by this time you were kind of wondering what was going on. The difference in times. The Army was on daylight saving. And nobody told you? 

And Atlanta was not. 

And you never even thought of it, huh? 

No, she didn't think, and I didn't, well, I didn't know any difference. 

So you wanted, you thought you'd been stood up, huh? 

I waited. I didn't even go through the motions of leaving and nothing else. You just waited. You had confidence sooner or later she'd show up. 

Well, I'm sure, with the two kids, I certainly got to wait for that. Did they even know who you were, your little kid? 

I don't think so. Joe didn't. Joe Jr. didn't. 

For the simple reason that after Ambrose had been at my mother's, we came to my mother's and we stayed until we could decide what we were going to do and all. And he had 60 days leave and all that kind of stuff. Okay. 

One night, the son, bless his little heart, woke up and said, D, that's what he called my mother, when is that man going home? 

And that man was you. And that man was his father. He had to get to know him. 

But nobody, honey, stop and remember. People that hear this are going to remember this. Fathers were not there. Grandfathers, yes. 

But the people next door to us, the children, their father was in the Navy. He was gone. The people on the right of us, their father was gone. home. And I tell you, they just didn't know. 

Well they had really grown up without you for that little bit of time. Oh yeah, oh yeah. Because they didn't know nothing. Joe Jr. was one year old. When his daddy left. When his father left. And he was in school when his father came home. Yeah, so his formative times there. 

And then when the war was over, So it was a trying time for the parents to get together again, and sometimes it resulted in divorces. To those who are going to hear this, I want to say that they'll understand. He and I had a very difficult time getting back together. I had had my life for four years. He had had a bachelor's life for four years. Hanging out with Patton, no less. Absolutely. And I had had the responsibility of my mother and my two children. Right. And I tell you, it was hard for me to realize that I now had another responsibility. 

Now, we're back in Atlanta. We've been through the war. We have two children. We're living at Daisy's house. And we have to make a decision. 

What is going to be your future? 

How did you make that decision, Colonel? 

Well, repeatedly walking and asking questions. It depends on whether you want to stay in the military or whether you want to get out. As we used to try to beat the other people in life. And we spent quite a bit of time. With my wife, she too joined in this discussion, and it just kept going. And finally we decided that we'd stay. 

So you took the end of your furlough time, you re-upped, making it, the intention of making military your career. Right. Where did they send you? 

Fort Leavenworth, Kansas. 

So you went back to the Midwest. To school. to go to school. Yeah, get me back in the harness in Fort Louis and West Canada. And did the family go with you? 

Yes. The two children went with us and the third child was born there. All right. And they sent me to the joint staff. They They just put the Department of Air Force in business, away from the regular Army. 

And when they were established, joint staff there, and I was a member of the first 100 that set up the Army, the Navy. That's okay, relax. To set up the Air Force and divide the means of other people taking it and so forth. Did you like the work you were doing? 

Yes, I liked it very much. 

So you knew you'd made the right decision. Yeah, well, no choice there, but you've got to go where they want you to go. Guess who his commander was? 

I can't imagine. Dwight D. Eisenhower. 

How about that? 

Well, if you're going to hang out with Patton, you might as well hang out with Eisenhower, too. Yeah. It was nice setting it up. That was a good experience. I was honored to be the one of the first 100. And I carry an insignia that no one else can except a member of the first 100. You're one of the charter founding members. And how long did you stay in Kansas? 

Now, he's in Washington with Joint Chiefs of State. You went right from your training school in Leavenworth right out to Washington, D. C. And again, the family had to move with you. Yeah, I had to carry them along. You had carried them along. We bought our first home. In Washington or Virginia? 

Dominion Hills. Dominion Hills. And I will have to say that that was the biggest piece of luck I ever had. 

Being out of the service, they would give you certain privileges and certain honors and certain rights and so forth. He got a GI loan, and he'd been out 30 years. Yeah, he got everything. And then we didn't live there but, what, three years? 

Uh-huh. And we doubled our money. That was a good investment. And that was a reason that we could live a little higher than we used to. You know, also, they recognized the military. We could get a car. 

We were one of the first ones that were able to go and buy an automobile because he had served during the war and was staying in the military so we bought our red Chevrolet. When was your first overseas opportunity? 

Right after that. And where did we go? 

Turkey? 

Oh, Turkey. They said, well, you got to go overseas and we're sending you to Sheffield, Slovakia. I believe it was. I said, well, can I carry my family? 

They He said, yes. I said, how long are we? 

They said, six months. I said, well, you got another one? 

And then they said turkey. Turkey and care of the family at the same time you go. I'll take it. That was what the time was. Of course, I discussed it with her. Of course. And all of you packed up, bag and baggage, and moved to Turkey. And it was a good experience. Very good experience. 

When anybody asks us our assignment that we had, See, we were diplomatic passport now in Turkey because that was the United Nations, see. 

So we say we're Turkey, and they look at us because of the condition Turkey's in now, they look at us like we've got about 14 holes in our head. 

But we were, the Marshall Plan was going into effect. Diplomatic passport, the American Army officer's uniform was respected. it. It was almost bow and scrape when they found out that you were with the U. S. Army. And I tell you it was, people were beautiful to us. We lived next door to the, what they called the Bougamaster, which is the mayor of Ankara. And he had two boys. One of them was the age of Joe and one of them was the age of Richard. And they wanted to learn English. Our boys wanted to learn Turkish. 

Now Margaret and I had to go to the University of Ankara to learn Turkish but they learned from the mayor's boys next door so that was conversational Turkish between them and when I wrote back to my mother that we lived on Ikenji Sokok she liked to have a fit, we told her it was 2nd Street, so not to worry about it, but may I count in Turkish for you please do beer icky ouch dirt ouch ouch ouch and on Isn't that such strange sounds to our ears, aren't they? 

Yeah, isn't it, though? 

So when Richard comes home he doesn't speak very good English but he spoke perfect Turkish. 

Did he really? 

And my mother would say him something, and if it wasn't that he could do it right then, he would say, Beardaka Ludwin, Grandmama. 

And my mother would say, Is he cursing me, or is he being nice? 

I said, Mother, you just don't know how nice he is being to you. 

And I would interpret for her, because it was one moment please grandmama and you don't say that in English when you're answering your grandmother yeah so it was fine it was a beautiful assignment and you were there for how long two years six months and then three months the president of the United States says we do not have enough money to bring our troops home. 

So they will stay overseas 90 days longer. It doesn't sound like that bothered you too much though. It didn't. We were a tick of a day. Did you get to do any touring while you were there? 

Tell me about the Holy Land. We went all through the Holy Land. We went places then that nobody else had taken. Because now you've got the Palestinians claiming part of Jerusalem and Jews on the other side. And there was no division. 

So you had an open reign, you could go anywhere you wanted at that time. And I want you to know, Margaret, our oldest daughter, was visiting with us, and we had the TV on. When Lebanon, we stayed in the most beautiful hotel in Lebanon with sunken baths and all. It got bombed, as you know, that particular hotel. And do you know our daughter cried? 

Because she remembered it. She remembered how beautiful it was. And it's the last city. She just couldn't believe it. There's no reason for them doing things like that. No, there's no reason, but it happens. there's hardly ever any reason for war. Yes and no. 

So after Turkey you came back home to the United States for a while? 

Mm-hmm. And back to Washington or where were you at? 

I'm forgotten where I went next. We went to Philadelphia. Oh, Philadelphia. of you. Stayed there for a while. Stayed there three years. And then where? 

I try to remember while I was at it. Still Washington, wasn't it? 

You went back to Washington? 

Yeah. And then eventually... I'll tell you how you can do this. In 37, guess where we were? 

Washington, D. C. In 47, guess where we were? 

Washington, D. C. In 57, guess where we were? 

Washington, D. C. They couldn't do us in 67 because he retired in 65. Okay. 

But in 57, we were in... Every 10th year, that's where you were. Yeah, we were in Washington. 

But you did get a chance to do some other international duty. Oh, yes. We went from Washington to Korea. And during that period, I was not in a regular army. They integrated me into the Reagan Army. I see. 

So I retired at the end of 30, as they call it. Yeah. Tell me about your time in Korea. How long were you there? 

We were there four times. 

Well, we were there two years. No, there's more. Wait a minute. Okay. And guess who the president was, and guess what he did. he gave you 90 more days overseas for the simple reason that they didn't have the money to send you we didn't again so we got it so and did you enjoy Korea very much some sightseeing again you got to see different things we went to Hong Kong Japan oh wonderful and the children were always with you when they weren't with you in Korea? 

Usually we're separate. They had a school and they had to stay in school. We only had two children with us in Korea. Joe Jr. was in North Georgia College. He had already grown up. 

But the army says, where is your home? 

And he said Korea. 

So every summer they flew Joe, the army did, from North Georgia College to Seoul, Korea to go home for the summer. Oh that was nice. 

The first time he came, he came by way of Hawaii and was tickled to death to see Hawaii. 

The next time he comes, he comes by way of Alaska and he's tickled to death to see Alaska. Worked out pretty good for him. 

So finally the decision came after, you had very good military assignments. You were very happy in the military. Oh yeah. I had a choice in a lot of, I'd rebel, you know. And you made the right choices, and you ended up... 

Now, where was your last assignment? 

Tennessee Tech. Yeah, Professor of Military Science at Tennessee Tech. 

Now, that sounds like it was really fun. It was kind of like coming back to your roots. It was delightful. We started in Tullahoma, Tennessee. Yeah. We ended in Cookville, Tennessee. Not that far away. And at Tennessee Tech... You see, the World War II busted when we went in Tullahoma. 

And some of the troops, the 33rd Division came down to Tallahassee, that's where we met the Morgans and all, and we decided we'd like to stay in Tallahassee. It was a good place to be, huh? 

Yeah. 

Now when you went to Georgia Tech, you had a professor of military science teaching you, and then here you were at Tennessee Tech teaching kids just like you had been military science it was a wonderful way to end up a military career wasn't it well later I did end it there it was a different place well what was so nice about it he was only going to serve they had told him he would only serve his 30 years as a regular army and the boys who were going to be seniors would not get for him to pin their leaves, I mean their insignia on and they got up a petition every boy in that military signed up, that ROTC signed up to please keep Colonel Thornton as professor of military science so he can commission us and it was granted by the U. S. Army. Oh, that was... Yeah, they were kind of little every now and then. That was very nice. You just have to ask them. You just have to ask. And so you got to stay until you commissioned your class. It was a little bit longer, but that was all right. 

And then when you left, after almost 31 years with the military, you decided to come back to Atlanta or not? 

I made a great big mistake. And it's, y'all are about the first ones I've ever admitted. 

Well, he looks pretty surprised. 

But I'll tell you, when we married, I said, I'll follow you anywhere. I'll make a home for you. I'll have your children, and I'll make a home for them if you promise. When our military career is over, you will bring me back home. You can't ever go back home. You can go home, but you can't ever go back home. When I left Atlanta, the population was 268,000. When I got back, 31 years later, it was 2 million and a half. Quite a bit different. It was not the same. No, it wasn't. 

One Friday, we were at Roswell Road and Windsor Parkway trying to get out of Windsor Parkway into Roswell Road. The light changed four times. We were still sitting at Windsor Parkway and Roswell Road. 

And he turned around, if you will pardon the French now, he turned around to me and said what the **** are we doing sitting here when we can live anywhere in the United States of America and I said I don't know well he said we're going to see about that we got home and called our daughter in Thomaston Georgia and said do you think that you could find a place for us to build a home. Yes, Mother, I have the exact spot. They've just put it on sale. It's perfectly beautiful. 

So we built a prefab. Don't knock the prefabs. I tell you, they are just about the best you can buy. They were Atlas homes. We put up a prefab home, and we moved in there. Four bedrooms, three baths, any kind of room that you wanted. Perfectly beautiful home. And we could get to town in five and one-half minutes. That was going home. 

Well, by the time you came back to Atlanta, your families had passed away, a good part of your family. Your mother was gone, so you were really ready to settle in. My aunt came to live with us. She did. She was the one that had looked after mother so I could follow him. They didn't have nursing homes like they do now. And so Mary had to quit work to stay at home to look after mother so that I could go with him. 

So we felt like, he did, especially, he said, Mary, you've always got a home. home. And so she moved to Cookville with us and then she moved from Atlanta to Cookville with us. I thought you said it was Thomaston that you moved to. Yeah Thomaston and she lived in Thomaston with us. She also lived in Cookville when we were in military science. 

But my brother died of a cerebral hemorrhage in 1967. 

And your mother you said had passed when 1962 yeah so you went to start your new life down in uh up in wherever thomaston is and uh just a few miles up there one thing you didn't tell us about though was the arrival of your last child we had the three we had margaret joe and richard well i'll tell you about mary inez so what happened this is going to be one of those stories that an awful lot of ladies in this world are going to understand perfectly they every time the doctor who delivered my children said every time that your husband hangs his pants up in the bedroom you get pregnant he said there's some ladies like that I happen to have been one of those so I went through the menopause twice The first time I went, I was perfectly delighted because 15 months later, I mean, you know, everything is fine. 

And I go out to Valley Forge Army Hospital and they tell me that I have a tumor and that they want Margaret to be sure and come home for Christmas and my mother and aunt to come up because they're to keep the children while I come in the hospital to have the tumor removed. okay so we write mother and them and everything is arranged the phone rings on his birthday Christmas Eve it's the doctor from Valley Forge Army Hospital says don't bother the day after Christmas to come to Valley Forge you are not going to be operated on my dear you are pregnant and you were so surprised what a Christmas present what a birthday present it was a lovely one it was a lovely present a lovely one poor little Joe Junior after I turn around with this long face on and tell Joe and Richard about it Richard just leaves the room Richard is one of those kind he's not going to tackle anything that's got any kind of an interruption to his life. I mean, he's gone. Joe comes up and he puts his arms around me and he says, Mother, don't worry. When Daddy comes home, I'll tell him. He's going to be awfully disappointed. And Daddy wasn't disappointed at all. No, it turned out to be a love. He would not let me go out of the house. He took good care of you. 

Because he was 43 years old until we went to a valentine party for the place he was working and they had a beautiful big arch with hearts all over it and they had a lovely band and we waited for intermission so that we could sneak in under that arch and just about the time we reached the arch the lights all turned on the band started playing and everybody in that room went no I'm too huh so on June 28th the baby was born and she has been a godsend and a blessing every day that she has been on this earth. Not a moment's regret, no. Her daddy retired, yes, but he had something else to do. He took her to the dances. He took her... She wouldn't go unless I did. She wouldn't go unless daddy went to. And it was a beautiful experience. 

So you had... I got up with the girls, you know. back where you started Joe back with the girls no but they changed the ways too this daughter that I'm talking about is one of the most talented she retired a lieutenant colonel in psychiatric occupational therapy she's regular army she took her commission from medical college of Georgia and she has just been a godsend she cannot have children and so she now has all her life now she's given to other people's children. 

When she was at Fort Benning she was not only with the alternative school children but she was with the mentally and physically handicapped children she taught them and then when she was in Hawaii it was the same deal and now that she is with the school system in Maine she is now the chief of the alternative school system there well how wonderful i know you're very very proud she loves it she lives in portland maine now you've told us and she's and that's marianna why don't you tell us what the other children are doing what is margaret doing now margaret is a advisor no and supervisor for the department of children and family services in trooper county in LaGrange. And Margaret is married and has how many children? 

Three. And they are? 

Elizabeth, Virginia, and Mary Junia. Okay. And now do any of those children have children? 

No, ma'am. Okay. 

Now let's move to the next. Joe, Jr., retired colonel, married to Pat. they have Joe the third married to Jennifer who has Joe the fourth and Jared all of them are J's Joe, Jennifer, Joe and Jared and next would be Richard Richard and Linda they have two boys Reed and Tate Reed has two children they are Holly Ann who is six and Brittany who is four no she's five then we have Mary Inez and Don so how many grandchildren all together nine counting the in-laws and how many great grandchildren four big family wonderful family When we had our reunion that we told you about, there were 23 of us. Lots of fun. 

Now, one of those was Mary Inez's college roommate when she went to Georgia Southern and Georgia College. And she was visiting. They were visiting. 

So there was 21 Thorntons. 

After you retired from the military and took on your role as father with Mary Annette, you also did a little of retirement work, post-retirement work. You told me about serving as a special appointment to the governor. Tell me about that, how that came about. Carl Sanders. 

How did that come about? 

Well, I was there talking to a friend one day, and she said that maybe it would be nice for you to come on. 

So she called Sanders and they agreed that I could come in as chief of the section. And that was the Office of Economic Opportunity. And in that role, would you... Established officers in each area in Georgia, minimum, to attack... Head Start is one of the programs. It was setting up programs for people to have more opportunities to get ahead of them. 

And the interesting part was you got to travel into every single county in the state of Georgia, right? 

Twice. Twice. You went around once and went around the second time. That's a lot of counties. And several of those that we had running them are still on the job. Really so. Did you enjoy that? 

In fact, Muskogee County, she's still on the job. Yeah, that's right. You enjoyed the work, though. Oh, yeah, it was nice, working with people and families and children. It was almost being like back in the military. In a way. Because he didn't mind the moving around, because he'd been doing that. He was a chief, which most of his army career he was. Yeah. And the fellow who served under him was one of the nicest people we've ever known. and he helped so just like when we go into a place his underdogs would realize what a person they had as a head of it and work like a dog and that's what happened and everything gets successful then well it sounds to me after visiting with you all this time and listening to your life story that you have had a pretty lucky life we have and a lucky girl you got yourself the right one to start with and it's been easy ever since that's a wonderful story to tell will you tell me truthfully we are being truthful when we say how lucky we are and that we do still love each other after all these years and we're not putting on a front just for you can you tell us I can tell that he told me when we were off by ourselves in the car Colonel told me that he instantly knew you were the right person and he never regretted the decision. And he didn't have to tell me that. And I knew he was because he was going to get me out of Atlanta. Chattanooga was as far as I'd been. And I thought, I'm going away. 

Well, you knew you had yourself something good going. 

Well, there's a lot of things you can do. 

We went, she and I crossed the country, when they had the trains in Canada going from east to west, the whole thing, they don't do that now. No. 

So you had some real good adventures together. Oh, yeah. And you started out, really, at Georgia Tech. You met at Georgia Tech? 

Yeah. I always say I went to Georgia Tech. Because you started out there. I just don't want anybody to believe other ones. The buttermilk deal is we lived in a dormitory there on a post. What was it? 

Noles. Noles. And we'd look out the windows, and these young girls would be going up and down the street. Parading up and down, huh? 

We called them buttermilks. Yes. And we'd throw things at them, and they threw words back at us. That was a way of making contact, huh? 

Yeah, yeah. And that's why the word buttermilk came by. Could I give the young people today a bit of advice? 

You surely can. We sit here and talk to you. We seem to be perfectly happy. We seem to have agreed on everything. It's not true. We have had our disagreements. 

But you worked them out. 

But I had my disagreements with my mother. I had very disagreements with my brother. 

But we got to the point where we ironed them out. now they don't want to sit down with an iron and iron them out they just say okay I'm through and walk out the door you can't do that it's hard work to make happen what you made happen good luck and hard work as I told somebody the other day our life one week has been 60 me and 40 him the next week it's 50 me and 50 him the next week it's 60 him and 40 me it is never the same i try to teach this well we try to teach it to our grandchildren now i will admit that our youngest daughter you tell me about marionez i can't without crying well don't tell us about it we'll just move on with the idea that you're very good, strong role models for telling, for having people see how to work things out. He was a homosexual. And he tried to be a man, and he tore it all up. 

Well, let's not dwell on the bad things because we have so many positive things. 

Well, look how she turned out. Yes, a joy to you, definitely a joy. I do have, and they are me. the rights with another 99 wearing one kind of insignia that we can wear. Nobody else can. He's so proud of that. And I think that's wonderful. That's when we set up the joint staff. That's great. That's great. You had that opportunity. We sure have enjoyed y'all. 

Well, it's been our pleasure and we can't thank you enough for giving us your day. Colonel, we've made you miss your nap. We've got you off your schedule. Oh, that's all right. I know, I know. 

But you'll promise me you'll catch up, right? 

Well, I'll catch up. 

But he won't miss his 3 o'clock medicine. he'll get that. Yeah, I'll be able to hit that. Yeah, I'll come back sometime. 

Well, thank you so much. When you don't have all this. And you're just as welcome. And bring your girlfriend. I got the joy to take. We'll sell her on the idea of getting married. Report. You've got a wonderful, wonderful life story that you've told us today. Excuse me. your foot's big. Before we turn the camera off and tell you how much we've appreciated your... 

Well, it's certainly our honor. Oh, it's been fun. Good. As you can see... Okay. 

Now wait, don't go away. I've got something I want to give you.