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>> This is a living history interview with Dan's which class of 1953 conducted by Marilyn summers on July the 30th the year 2003 we are at his home in Athens Georgia and the subject of our interview today his life in general his experiences at Georgia Tech Mr Bush if I may call you De Angelis you when I friends from a while back and I am just so pleased to be here in Aspen with delight and your lovely lovely home to talk to you today about your story so as I said we're going to begin at the beginning so tell me where were your floor speech were Ga Ga love alone my team 32 July 32 was.

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In history that the Dow Jones Industrial Average hit its all time low. And I was born on that month. But those were tough times back in 1980 and I remember my father who worked extremely hard and I remember the difficulty you know and and he worked all the time trying to you that's right trying to keep and that's right what was your father doing well because that's his occupation he had a real passion for electronics he loved radio and ham radio and he built the 1st crystal in both Kenny where they heard for the very 1st time Boyce through the air and it was a weather report out of Baltimore Maryland one of his friends still me about being with am about 2 or 3 o'clock in the morning when they came when they 1st came through on that and he went on to study it several screws but he was at Washington Lee and I remember they gave him a limited amount of dollars to build the 1st radio station that Washington and Lee University but that was his passion and so any of those where you know now we've all town was he born to stay far away or was he from the right he was born in.

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Statesboro. Of the family had been there for some time the family originated and my great grandfather was in a little community called blitzed in Georgia which is between Statesboro and Savannah Ok so the area that same is right same area and then 2 of his son one being my grandfather moved to statesboro they were in the mark and Dale been use in farming and they can a finance the farmers all the way from you know all the way through all of their needs whether it was groceries a caskets clothing or whatever and then they would take in the cotton as payment for the Bills it'd you know being built in the year now what farming What was your momma doing in Statesboro Well my mother was teaching and she grew up in Athens right here and during Cannie went to Georgia normal schedule here in a sense and then went to the states border to teach and that was the really the the circumstances it brought many marriages together is when young women went into communities to teach and then they made the local men.

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Married there and that was the way our family you know more than any minute now did you have brothers and sister I have an older sister 30 years older that lives in Orlando Florida. And so you were the baby but I was kind of the baby boy I even got some of the hand me downs oldest sister the lawyer.

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What I didn't like you know a tough tough task but after. Just 5 minutes right wow when you were ready to start school and you went you went to elementary school were you still living in faith for Georgia so you went to elementary school there and when Sam was little than a good student well I tried to be I think I was a good student I had a lot of sickness in my early years in fact one hour was Felicity about 12 years so I went to had a kid and it made Oakland.

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Yeah for the 5th grade in half or the 7th grade out of school to but I still managed to come back and go through those classes and graduate on time in fact when we graduated we only had 11 years of **** through high school yeah that was the typical So I really graduated age 16 I had an aco who had gone to the Annapolis and I always kind of looked up to him he wanted me to go to Annapolis but but the kidney kept me out of military service and yes well yeah but any member going to what let me ask you did your parents raise you to believe you would be going to college.

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Yes but that was a time just saying that was a conscious thing Ok you were thinking Annapolis and tell you realize that you were going to be prohibited from that that's right what made you start thinking about Georgia Tech Walt Aldridge was outstanding in our camp today who lived in Statesboro and was kind of a role model for me I thought a lot of Walter and he had gone to Georgia Tech so I was thinking of Georgia Tech Net regard and then later decided I wanted to to you know follow that profession and when I went to today I started out in the architectural firm and then latest switched industrial engineering Well let me ask you this had you ever been to task at the time you met him I knew you were going to come Bebe Brown who was is one of my very closest friends one we when I was a boy Dick's a camp for boys and that was about 1945 I believe a 44 and b.b. was there as a council and he was from Savannah Yes just a couple years older than you and we became.

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They asked friends and he invited me which I thought was most unusual for saying it in Georgia to invite some kid from a small town to come up spend the weekend and he invited me in on 2 occasions to come to Georgia Tech you must have been so excited I was so excited what travel by train then or by car how did you get what we could catch the train the Nancy Hanks and over George's that ran between Savannah in Atlanta and you could catch a train and come up our course sometimes you get to ride what was your 1st impression you must have been dazzled like well I was asked God allied you know and I remember we went to see the.

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Couple of games it's football weekend that was tremendous you know to be there with the a.t.o. fraternity and I feel worse with with and then I knew Bobby Joe Anderson from Statesboro bill well as you were traveling a good company while I was in I felt like Alice Yes You know King of the hill so there was no I guess they got to lie down and spend time with these you know paternity guys that I can idolized they were very generous and they were very generous and so there was no question that's where you want to go to school well that's that's right and the daddy a perv.

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They approve my father had an illness during the war he was a volunteer and went into the Navy so he was not at home at the time but any hand all of my family had young of the University of Georgia I kind of wonder why they were all Sigma guys and I wound up being an a.t.o. and been a you know a Georgia Tech student I was kind of a black sheep in the same kind of way to be an outlaw then that outlaw and of course in the time that $49.00 in the fall of $49.47 was it I think a consecutive years we won the Ga Ga Tech football game was this really good so it was a great time from a football standpoint Georgia Tech Yeah I think that's where you are holding your head high pay can play any Iraqi at for that's right that's right and I'm a member going to one of those football games dinky Bowen from Greenville maybe it was the I believe the running back on that one of those earlier teams are now where they are already and I met his wife cash is North Carolina just take him out a couple years ago it was and we had our 9 years you're right about dinky Boeing Yeah it was a great player and Georgia today.

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When you came out you started in architecture and you were me but the 1st year is just core classes any that's right so you were taken all the stuff everybody would tell you how did you do when you can let me tell you what I was sweating blood.

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I gotta let me here's what I think quite satisfied as a 1st year I thought every day that I was going to you know flock out I mean that was my thought I was very frugal and struggle and struggle and struggle and. And I did you know succeed m.m.r. in English we had an English class on the 3rd floor of the ministration building a little had that course with me and he had told me the professor Cullison anymore but I do remember this but midway through that English doors I stood out in the hall with him and I said you know Professor I know I'm **** And I said I'd be willing to do anything.

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Extra work because you know I want to do everything I can depend Yes And he said and I said I grew up in Statesboro Georgia and had a terrible English teacher. And I said I really didn't learn in English in high school and therefore I'm really not prepared for this level English teacher and he said well what was a night when your teacher and I said Ms Lee Lee do you and I said I loved my father but she was an institution there and he said what Miss Lily deals do you know she's inspiration for maybe in English States you know well I feel like you know I was just said you're thinking this is not.

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He said that his mother was a dietician in Georgia teaches college in Statesboro when he was growing up and then he went to statesboro high school and Headingley and the Mrs Beale I can't imagine now look Yeah well I think I did pass the Kodak said lightly you're right I said like there but I was like Ok I'm out there put foot in that's right.

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That's any thank God Now he was nice he did past it was one of my listening to him again you know but those were tough times for what you were prepared Plus you probably didn't have really good studies hard at that for most kids didn't know how to study well way to learn how to study fast and you know one of the things that I remember the.

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The kids who came out of the technical high schools and no one came in their 1st year much of that curriculum was almost revealed at once and when they finally got into those sophomore courses like calculus and so forth they get in there they learn to plug and they go out all that was found was because they were kind of ready and where the rest of us were struggling and stood in like the devil you know and so when we went into this stuff more year we learned how to study and a lot of the media had played in this and they were the ones in many cases.

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Now when you live there you had to move from Facebook where did you live that 1st year where you had done Tory from where I lived in Harrison Dom to play you had a roommate from right where they met my and boss from states from Alaska to Georgia and I learned I never thought That's right I have the money yourself and it's a kind of support each other about we did and we had other friends you know there and develop friends and we can a support supported each other member one of the funny stories and I think it's true it sounds like it's it's not but one of the boys on our whole came into Union Station in Atlanta with his suitcase and whatnot asked for a taxi to carry him to Harrison Dhamma dory and he said you know I want to go to Paris never been to go to Harrison down the door in the taxi cab driver said if you are you a student this person he said yes I'm a freshman and he said Well Georgia Tech is a great school you said I guess graduated in June.

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And but those were hard and I think that is a true story I can't remember exactly he told last story but I think that is a true story they were tough times to get jobs in 1949 and 53 they were a lot lot better now you came to a campus that was full of the returning to yeah that's right you were one of the real kids just a kid really literally in every way just a comment against not only veterans some of whom were no more than 120 themselves but they had been around the world and you have been around the world and it was a great mix really and I were you intimidated by that or encouraged by that well to some degree I was starting as a sophomore for at Ajax Dean a.j. gave me a job and I had camera I was looking for work any any way that I could find work it's going to but one of the jobs I had from Dana Ajax was to indoctrinate to have the veterans fill out their all their papers for the **** you know the what do you gotta live for that yeah yeah the g.i. Bill and I remember feeling so intimidated as a 17 year old kid with all of these as you say veterans and telling them what to do how to fill out their papers you know and I'm sure they felt the same way who is this little sport you know telling us what to do but I do remember that and then I told him he said forget it it was quite a guy doing a Jackson Great Dane we had a lot of interesting faculty and stated we did have some of the most interest in faculty and I remember.

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I think mechanical drone was one of the most difficult. Flash's everybody else a lot of people I heard it mechanical drawing possibly flunked out more students today than any of the subjects I have heard and my. Mechanical drawing professor was Dr rattling and I can remember he would not let a smudge you could nail want everything and he had a red pencil that he would put new saying in instead of holding it the way you normally hold a pencil in correct play Pearl draw on the scent he grabbed it in his thing and you know like that in the speech and he'd go down on him do this only and it made everybody so made and one of my classmates memory him telling me and I don't know whether he passed out on merit but he said he'd worked on this role and you know night and he had a guest absolutely perfect in rhetoric in a low and picked up that red pencil itself and said he picked it up.

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Don't touch it. Not the testee And the funny thing when I transferred my rotary membership from one to Georgia over the Athens is customary when you introduce to have other members of the club come up welcome you into the club and I look down the line and there was Dr rhetoric No he had transferred from Georgia ticked to the University of Georgia to teach.

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Engineering Department and he came up to me and he said Mr Bliss Do you remember me and I looked at him and I said I'll never forget. Did I do it well now that's right but there are a lot of stores we had some great professes to really.

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After you got yourself established with you that 1st year the 2nd year you had to move off the campus right but is because there was enough housing with that the entrance the design on a most optimal ascent to get an apartment and Frank Foss and I who ran together freshman year that 1st quarter of campus.

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We rented an apartment that we lived in so that made it a little tougher for human essentially more burden so was it well you didn't know it was tough I mean you know I went through Georgia Tech for complete years and I came up with all expenses pretty much in a cost roughly $4000.00 to go to **** it was when I made that include That's new everything yeah that's right $4000.00 but when you think of how money was hard to come by in those days that's something to be passed 6 years later I went to Harvard Business School that kills $4000.00 a year yeah and just just incentive for all of it that's right just part of that's right yeah that's right yeah it's an amazing thing what a good bargain you were getting but it probably didn't feel like a bargain as well you know everything's relative you know Cokes were a nickel and yeah things like that in most how often did you get to go home that 1st year at all well I think yes 2 or 3 times holidays a memory that's right in Joe Anderson Bobby-Jo Anderson had graduated the year before when I got to Tech and he had a new car we were so proud of of Joe's new car and when he would go to states for I would ride with so that was so I got a ride with him you know maybe shared a little on the gas and there were a lot of stories and we laugh about stories today you know what you do We had some great times now that 1st year did you have any social life at all or was a strictly the boys in the door but no you know that I was in a to you know our you left this right away you and I was a very naive young man to say the least I had not been exposed to a lot of paternity things I didn't drink or drink beer and I think people think I'm telling the story when I say but it's true you know I can remember it's a ploy it's been a fraternity that 1st year and baby Brown was my big brother.

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And after had been initiated into the fraternity we had I'm a member for turn it immediately and it was to vote on the Big Bear party that was going to pay off and so they had a vote everybody wants to do this you know regime and those opposed I raised my hand I looked around I even though I was only one vote they can't smear party and everybody said be Brian who the hell is this guy you brought in the paternity you know Course I learned within the law what you maybe get me straight now pretty fast did you have Did you have to do one of those interesting challenges that some of the other fraternity guys are told me about when they came in all churches a different route but did they feel ask you like to do I challenge to be initiated did you have to you know you better in the hazing Well you know that's not the actual.

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Hitting 0 but they usually have some kind of a tricky thing that head of well I don't remember that homey because I think any egg hands are told everything like that and then when you handle I remember we had a lot of you know still there was a lot of teasing that went on with that was a freshman if you have your red hat on you could get that well that was the that was the **** in the ram and right club that they had that that really was in charge of that but they take you out of the country and leave you there to get your way back home they did they do so matter of fact that those who went on to be a professor of chemistry and.

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The University of Tennessee. The 2 of us they took us out way beyond the Naval Air Station it night and put us left us out I had a red red and yellow warmup so you don't you know and they dressed up like we were just you know kooks and put us out on a on a dirt road.

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In the middle of the night about 2 o'clock in the morning and left us and my son we were both taken Yeah I never did have to serve in the service but I started out with the Air Force are o.t.c. it but anyhow we've been taking a course you know where you study the stars and everything so Don and I figured out which way to go from that coerce Wow he walked in and I remember about 5 o'clock in the morning out it over for university there was a stop out there where they'd truck came through delivering the Atlanta Journal Constitution and we talked him into letting us jump in the back of the truck they drove the sacking and that was a country most used to drive back into Lana so we did a really well within an hour so we could chart the stars estimate well when we had just had that coalition I think done was a lot smarter than I was but he we figured it out which way to get we didn't know what to like I mean do you go down this road to the left are you going further away from Atlanta or are you going back in the Nothing's a question couldn't see the lights of the city you were not far out that was my they gave you know played us a lot of different things to do like they'd give you the name of a tombstone in the cemetery and say Now we want you to come back and tell us the names of only each side of this tombstone that was one thing that went on so you had to walk in the cemeteries and look for these a lot we didn't have to make it sound that way took us in the country other places were doing things like that but you know they've cut out most of them and really why it's important to know it now and saw it happen now it's too dangerous and it that's right and it's also would be right for them.

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But that that's exactly how it's a bloody day for there are not 5 that's right it's See that's the last time and that's why again I think you have to yield opportunity was a 1st initiate still weak. For pledges where you go out and do good things in the community as opposed to all of this refreshing stuff that was going on you know I'm one of the funny things that happen is it yes one of our 2 played used to go and bring you know bulls to you and they want to stockyards and actually with.

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No you didn't pull the Bulls tail through the thing could it also brought any well I thought well. You know they were going to go into the slaughter house and have a still that was terrible you know things like Yes terrible but those were the days when you know the veterans and all I mean it was you know it was kind of scary some of those I think dangerous and he had his hands full being the man at that time didn't know.

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Griffin you've heard this over and over and over he was just such an incredible individual did you ever have a personal encounter with the many times dangerous and I will develop a great friendship both take and have to get out of today and one of the funny things I can remember about that happened I had a 0 plate about $100.00 to bind $39.00 Chevrolet with a stick shift.

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And it had a cardboard member. In it was part of the body was it was terrible for I mean I don't know it cost more to try to keep it running and I didn't have much money you know but I had found I drove out of drive a car to take drove with it and I was a prop in Smith during my junior year and that was my junior year and I had parked that car for I don't know a minute in that parking lot right next door and I was so busy that I didn't even try to current get anything and finally the air went out of the tar.

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And one day acting in that car which you know so I started checking own found Bill engine ground had big did it and it moved it over to a parking lot where they put all of the ram in right Ok so I'm at a foot Turnitin meeting in our treasure gets.

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Insists that they so Rayman re the $50.00 apiece and we got $50.00 for in right well I just. Ran out and went up to that parking lot to see if my car was there and it was gone so I was in doing Griffin's office and makes a point 8 o'clock and I totally I think they so my car with all of the Ram unranked and egg America he said blitz the hell you say I said Yeah so you can all Jamie Anthony who is the.

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Vice President of Finance and he says Jamie blitz is sitting here in front telling me that you so lose the car for Rahm in rec. You say well might and we sold them all so well who bottle and set a junkyard down in grip in Georgia so dangerous and right there you give me the telephone number getting the telephone number he called a junk yard Downing earth in Georgia and said and understand you bought all around and Rex from here and said I've got a young man says he had a car up there that won a ram in wreck and said we want to know if you have you know what happened to him and they said well we had both torches and these things out to transport him and we came to this car and we could this well do so we decided it was worth preserving so we picked it up and brought it down here said we put tires only so we got it running and said it's everything Griffin said well you got to bring a car up and give it back to this young man and so they did so I got my car back hit Tara So it was running fine and dangerous and I used to laugh about it isn't that it right in that regard you know how far back that you know I don't know whether it's whether he is a guest made him bring it back isn't that amazing that good nap a good day either they would tell him No John and Dean was you know we talked about all the financial aid Dean Griffin was the financially today when Alice assignee and I had borrowed about as much as I could plus making everything I could from the bank and I went to Denny's and I told him I said you know I'm going to really hit rock bottom and he says it is anyway I can borrow some money from the school anything if any.

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And 1st thing I know he come he said let me see what I mean Dave and he called me back about 2 weeks and he said I got you a 500 dollars scholarship American she. And I did seriously consider going to work for them when I got out of school you.

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Know so he did that all it was just to to call in every come a day like he was just he was just icon without a doubt and I'm told that when you pay that money back instead of giving it back to America breakthrough he found 2 other guys.

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After all right they never got their money back it was valued valving slush fund it was right there was always what an amazing and I think about all of the financial aid in everything we have today but it was what you then I know you find it was such a much simpler point some of the other characters around that campus that you wouldn't want to miss saying something about well you know one of the funny things I remember I got involved with young Republicans and in the 1952 on the campus and was going to head of a kind of an informal group we had there and.

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As president of the student council in the student body at that time I got to sit over in the way of spans and in a box and sometimes in the present and I got to know the kernel of a family or well he was a you know pretty a speech man and no nonsense kind of a guy but he was had a big heart and one of the things I said is that one of my fellow students and we had a big long banner that said I like I that's when Eisenhower was around and fall and I want to put it on the side a blight on Dominic Toretto club and on the side of the we got 2 windows up there and strong that I like Ike So the whole way a stands could see it and that was before they had raised East Indians so you could see it so you could see the whole sun out of those nomic doors Well I was so proud of that I like Ike over there all the way through this football game you know and.

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And Imam or Colonel bandolier headed for turning machine see me at 8 o'clock Monday morning. And I was in his. Office at 8 o'clock he said then I'll go to. School said you realize that I had Herman tile me to the job of the state of Georgia here all the way through that football game and all I could see was like I Are you aware that you can't put political of member stuff own state property and he said I'm sitting here and with the with the governor of the state said I have every reason in the world to kick you out of school and we went through this back before I said I didn't know you know I and and Here.

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Because I said something before the you know as soon as he sat down to been a little bit tired of that Chris talking about him brings up one of the issues that was going on at that time which was whether or not to let women in Iraq now you were on the student council we had there at the time that the absolute raw vote so that's right we took a straw vote in m.m. was a very close straw vote on the student council I voted in favor I'm glad to hear broadminded from well after that I thought probably And yet it was a lot of tradition here you know me and but it was the right thing to do in.

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And not to manlier he was in favor of it there was a lot of debate going on there were certainly a lot of people that were opposed to the women coming with my being pushed time didn't think they'd be the right kind of women are that kind is that right now but after the fact it turned out to be almost a non-issue did it when I would say did get there and you don't recall any faster feathers I mean I don't my man a problem I think the 1st thing that surely me with less.

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It was I asked her why she was not the 1st General Musharraf it was I am Michelle and Elizabeth on the right where there and I think they came in if our member in 54 yes it did to September of 52 they did and they came in in September of 50 to try because I'm a number of voting on the student.

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And we had quite a debate about whether the poll in the technique had voted out no girl if they didn't why not run but the council was wise enough to see well I suspect that you realise that family or witness favor of it and it would well we weren't necessarily just.

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You know trying to do it because Van later but certainly we listen to the administration I mean those were the days when you looked up to the administration on it you still say they don't but I'm sure not Cluff as great of my fantasy is and I thank so much I mean that students students look up to and but but you know a lot of school to say they don't know but.

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If what it was a big issue on the campuses and yet not an issue at all once it happened right and it was a shame to think the girls who wanted to be engineers really had to go out of the state to get their education I'm told by so many of your classmates that they never even really saw any women thinking they were just born around they never saw as ever so few Well a little a lot of the Tech students a lot of my friends you know we went over the Agnes cast itself but you know when they don't that's where you serve that's where you know dated a lot of and I did that they did a lot of the school year olds and all of that and it would you say that once you got that one on like to say right from the beginning was it a good experience for you glad you came to Texas There's no question about it it didn't read a lot of Georgia Tech and I love it it's good to and I wouldn't take anything for the education and it's you know to me it's meant everything through the years there were no regrets no regrets or not you were a Georgia family even though I was a Georgia family but I've always been the extremely proud of my degree I tried to get each of my children that you know but the 2 oldest children Jim and Elise they went to dig University in then burry my youngest he came to he came that day and how so proud of there are we're going to talk about that little bit and I don't I don't want to leave Tech yet at the time of your graduation.

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We were back to the facts of. And having to decode the pipe fitter for your graduates right that was the only one graduation a year yeah that is so you know but we never talked about what made you give up architecture was that mechanical Triton No no it was not enjoyed architecture and but I asked myself working and I would you know they call it don't charade but if you have a project imam or stay in a night and day it seems to me 2 or 3 days trying to get a project done and I noticed some of my classmates that I fell head and I was in the design option and they could design and do beautiful things and just almost whip it out in a day and I sit wait a minute I start thinking about this and say wait a minute what I'm alone because I'm a wind up being addressed months for some of these great design guys in this class because I don't have that flair for design so you recognised your limited and I was working the night and day to make the grades that I wanted to make and so finally I said you know this is a course on the to consider **** and out of this and how did you 2 Why what made you choose that you know I can't remember for sure I think I went and talked to Frank talk to gross close who was head of the department and and it seemed to me that industrial engineering gave you a pretty good overview.

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There were a lot of options you could go in the sale if you could go into plant management you could go into a lot of different options if you could go into graduate and out of industrial engineer that it was a fairly new program not that clearly it's fairly new but it was you know how do you stay on top of the top enrollment I think departments only came out interestingly enough by changing majors you didn't really at any time turn your school well I had to go I want I had to go one extra quarter that's not bad I couldn't transfer everything but I took a lot of extra courses you know in that time we would take 181920 I remember after 21 credit hours want to talk to Mark and of course one of the men scheduled Usually it's about 1516 you know if I go in the well even toilet but we took him to loads and then we had those alliance to you know when you get one hour credit for each 30 hours later was it so the transition went well for you it went well and you were delighted to have made them having lunch I didn't feel sad looking man what was the school like at that time I was the environment I was I'm thinking probably very very festive because the team was winning.

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Great football so within reason I had a great coach and coach Don I always believed in hand and he's as I still do having the athletes get it out in the Dhamma towards So they get to know the student body and became a part of student activities as opposed to having them isolated in a you know an athletic dome and so there was a great feeling from the whole student body about support Affleck's And then there was a feeling that we were here to get an education too they knows what tough times and you realise if you want to get the best job you could get for turnout is had a.

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Big part in activities at the **** that time and we had 130 men in our fraternity at that time and today it's 30 and 40 in most of those paternity but paternity to life was a big part of the campus certainly a maybe you might say a more conservative you know time in history of the **** and that we didn't have a whole lot of penny rates going on or have all that sort of value knowing but but the veteran Still they had a bigger You do a lot of dirty heavy heavy workloads That's right really wrong I've told so many times by people that was the most important thing the learned at tackling how to work that's right getting a work ethic that's right I think you could do it tell it like down the.

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So what were you looking at is your project graduation where you where the interviewing on campus for jobs are Did your daddy want you to come home or work or what we going do what Georgia has always had a tremendous placement department and Dr Ajax Fred Ajax headed then and we had great interviews from the outstanding you know corporations in America that game the Georgia Tech to recruit still do and at that time did you get some of those and had all the interviews I wanted my McCammon out with 4 or 5 job offers at the time the going into the consulting business right out of Georgia Tech m m with Attorney brother came down and said Have you seen that.

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Job description for Curt Salomon the socialists and that said Nobody said you ought to look at that so I want to spur stime carrots Elman had interviewed today and. I went up and looked at it interested in drop my resume and you know the packet and and later got a call and I was interviewed by a lady a big gene quick who was head of personnel for Kurt's small consulting firm of that time they had about 30 people in it and then Kurt selling himself came to Atlanta and interviewed me at the Biltmore Hotel about 2 or 3 I was really only there was a cart solve and there was a carer a great man great man and one of the smartest man I've ever known but he enter viewed me in and one of the things he did which we used later I used to come to Tech for Kurt's out money in the end I mean the company in the interview it didn't matter 10 years Hello 23 years later I started coming once a year and I would interview I'm a one time walking with the person it was been interviewing for General Electric at the break we would just walk in to get lunch and he said and I said how many graduates are you looking for want to hire out of Georgia Tech this year and he said 50 he said how many are you looking for when I said when.

[00:42:13]
You have any here you are really thinking I heard a lot of an interview with me in a room at the Biltmore Hotel and one of the things that he used to use and we used in carrots and I learned to use it was a diagnostic interview which is carefully selected sequence of questions that you ask and just don't mention is to be one of the questions it is a ask if you think you have an analytical ability Well anybody this an engineer would be stupid if you're just trying to get a job to say no I don't have any any you know analytical ability so you say yes I have I think I've got a handle of a question you should give me an example I'm going to where you lose you use your analytical ability in the last year.

[00:43:02]
Well the classic response to this was given by a man called Carl struggle who just died in. The town a beach when he was laid to Preston. We caught Kurt's associates. And in answer the curch question on that he said well he was an all-American Ian Carney today before the war Carney get used to have a big football program and he said I call defensive signals but Carnegie today in answer to this analytical question and we beat new Rodney and Notre Dame 14 to 7 is it not a very good actually great as I was always there it's like I can't remember for sure I think it was due to the fact that I had to really put myself the majority of my cost of going to Georgia today made by running on him burger and hotdog stand at the tobacco market in Statesboro Georgia every summer and I had to put that little thing together and we kept it open 24 hours a day wow and we didn't tell me about that and we did snowballs and hamburgers and all those ways well I did my mother will help be a great deal you would claim up with the idea if it was a need for that in the market maybe also already that I talked about earlier owned the property that fronted on the back of market and he let me then use a corner of that property to put in a little you know it was maybe 20 feet square 15 feet square so with a descent down or a walk up in No you had to walk up to the tenor and he would you know wasn't to call it call it when peace purred away opinions are going well well and we had great hamburgers and we had snowball and and you came up with the whole concept that moment and ran it on that Summers on I would make in about 8 to 10 weeks I would make enough almost enough money to put yourself in the order of.

[00:45:15]
Did you want to go out and buy your you. Everything you needed to produce obvious so I knew all of the chain of it all the binding already in the heart and I had a cook there and you know and we would sell more cocoa was in a week than anybody else in Bullock Kenny and Imam of the cocoa a man telling me the entire story some of the fine young men in Statesboro today they used to work phone and they'd take I'd have these little trees where you could take at 10 snowballs you know what a snowball ground no ice Yeah and I put my scholar up on the top and he'd take those into the hot warehouse you know where they were auction in the back and how to run from and yeah I guess you know yes like not Ok So that was a good business in you know we so cigarettes and cigars and all whatever you code.

[00:46:08]
And hamburgers and I will defend I'll do it all sent Well it I did that started it in Haski really when Alice about a junior in high school you and then I had a cousin of mine and I went to Europe and the strange program between the and it was some of before my senior year between the Atlanta.

[00:46:32]
Rotary Club and the. Paris Rotary Club they had it Exchange Program 2 students would go each way and candle was a guy who was a. With a t. and t. and on is the father of the Georgia rotary student funded a which each year brings over about 50 students from all over the world to study in Georgia **** but any a candle is get interviewed me in his office now and now well and giving me.

[00:47:12]
The money to go. And I went over and on the student and spent time with the Paris Rotary Club then with a bicycle and another friend and we would cycle in contact Rotary clubs in France and wanted to in Germany and whatnot and had a great summer but that's mom I had my cousin who wanted to run the embargo so he took it over and ran it that someone did you like get a kickback at all so you think yeah I thought I was yeah I'm sure do a little Red Sea go without any all equipment everything you want to have this is there right from the get go I've tried to be you know if I'd stayed in the Hamburg a business man young the Georgia Tech I might have been.

[00:47:57]
When I was never did know him he knows how did you do with Curt comment Ok I say Did you enjoy your work there I enjoyed my work there it was consulting work is very very challenging in that kind of consulting work and in that if you rise in the ranks it's a lot of trouble after x. came out I took a sabbatical leave of absence from Kurtz I'm an Associates and went to Harvard and then came back to Southwest office in Dallas Texas.

[00:48:33]
And that he and I married him between the 2 years at Harvard Business School but in Him we came back moved from Boston to Dallas and I was on a plane just constantly I mean I would travel 4 and 5 days a week to rise and supervise in jobs and and and then.

[00:48:56]
You know sell the new installations and I found I just get really tired of the travel and so it is Lisa my standpoint that from a long range standpoint if we were going to have a family you know I want to settle down to be one for them so I bought a naturist and a firm that I had done some consulting work for one they were exposed to and what was that firm that firm was barren manufacturing can mean one job and what were they manufacturing they were manufacturing men slacks in boys jeans in July and we took that business and built a day in about 4 or 5 plants labor intensive business which you know most of that today is going to show or you know not that was your 1st contact with the apparel business well identity consulting you know apparel all you had to text on camera and this one article happened when you didn't have a background in fact that well this industrial engineer was just you know in the panic and I heard someone had a very intense training program is one of the few I don't know you know when you think about a consultant you think about somebody with a grey hair that's got 40 years of experience and that's true in a lot of consulting business but he could he could take young people and intensively train them and bring a man as you know trainee engineers and associate engineers and then you know I was in my day off and sitting engine ears and put him under a senior engineer in an installation and Essel way he operated his biz.

[00:50:33]
So it was able to there is an excessively very successful perch I am on today has made it to 300 people around the world I did the 1st job they'd ever done in Europe in London and that was back in 1959 and this plant I remember was right near Runnymede you know where they send the Magna Carta was a Tory place and there you are telling them what's right is right so you had when you decided to buy into Barrow it was because you wanted to settle down that's right and so by buying into that you took over some management roles there that is all that did into our thriving business well we had a date with for a lot of time that's right that's right I stayed there for a long time I had a number of opportunities to do other things but really in no I had always wanted from the time I was a kid to be an entrepreneur I mean I had that inclination no want to have a business of my own as opposed to be.

[00:51:34]
To be employed by a big corporation and really one of the drive in forces that sent me to Harvard was to to learn something about finance in particular and about marketing and in those you know areas which I didn't get it Georgia Tech which did get when you went which I did get at Harvard the opportunity to go to Harvard that was the your own idea Arctic did k.s.h. And you know it was it was really my primary my idea and I remember when I was in London and I came back to go to Harvard after that one of the experience mists and I'm I don't know how much telephone calls the telephone call cost him but we talk about 2 hours when he had a job lined up in Johannesburg South Africa the wanted me to do any said you can come back in and you can set a period quarters in Europe and develop our practice in Europe and you can either stay in London or you can go dessert there you can go to Rome you take any 3 of those locations Well I didn't speak any other language so I said you know if I'm on do then I'll spend money but a good friend of mine Freddy would later came into London and he was with me and he did develop that practice in Europe and you came back to Boston and I came back to Boston probably when I was like to go to Harvard how many years 2 years.

[00:53:07]
And interesting program was the tremendous German wouldn't take anything experience not you know how to study and he had a state you were well how did you decide that you needed to build a lasting cared for that's right so you're going to talk work at that came into play what that's right they really stuck it to you at Harvard I mean you really had had to study in the course I'm not the brightest again or Also I was I was always saying I was playing catch if you know but I would I would really study hard to tell stories to there but you know.

[00:53:43]
It was in one of the Harvard classes that was at the bottom of the class and he was just struggling all the time you know you're just doing any and **** this kind of like a story I could tell you about d.m. Smith it was my Calculus professor tech you know and I was a legend and I'm sure you've heard stories wonderful wonderful stories about me and I've got a great one about 3 story about that in him.

[00:54:10]
This kid at Harvard Business Q He just was making it so they had the teen year reunion everybody's you know slapping everybody on the back eating orders and drinks and he look at and hears a big long limousine pulls up chauffeur gets comes around to what was the war puts on a coat with the fur around the coat and here's this young man who was at the very bottom of the class Kemeny and what everybody is just you know go what what if you've been doing it you know and so he says well you remember I just I didn't do very well I had such a struggle to get to **** all of you guys we get all these big job offers and board and General Motors and going and said I didn't know what to do said my wife said well why don't we just make some things in the kitchen and sell them and we started making things in the kitchen cookies and everything and said.

[00:55:06]
Said we would pay a dollar for the ingredients and sell it for $3.00 and said you know it's amazing how that 3 percent markup and. It's just but it's all right that's. What it says about a year ago this was circulated through to. So you said you married dying away did you meet that he died he was going to Rand her father was Mount doctor in Statesboro and a man and I just loved.

[00:55:42]
And I had seen he is a challenge. Because when I graduated from high school she was in the 3rd grade and like to remind us that everything doesn't get me very much but but any. I was doing some work in Philadelphia and some in Atlanta for Kurtz and I would spend a week in Philadelphia a week in Atlanta and when I was in Atlanta I would spend the night sometimes with a name and id was it random Mike and she was in Atlanta going home for spring break if I remember something and so my aunt and my aunt said Well Dan is in town and he's driving down the Statesboro and you won't if you want to ride with him I bet he'd be glad to hear you won't after I've been in it's in and get in at 11 pm at night so not a civil fun so.

[00:56:42]
We. Enhance the road with me and really ahead on and we started of course I had no romantic thoughts at all I mean you know here she was you know my dear Jim and but anyhow we hand we we. Enjoyed the conversation there and I and I was at the time studying to take the.

[00:57:09]
I forget what the calendar the time the exam that you had before you know that the graduated you saying I'm and I said it here now yeah that's right I took that in Philadelphia when I was there at the. Philadelphia College and he was one of the screws in Philadelphia where they gave the same thing on and.

[00:57:32]
Ask got a bad kid ever later still have a bad one and that is civil I've got a degree for a kid or left to bark and said I'm not sure where it is but just pick it up next week so I came back and she invited me in for.

[00:57:47]
A good talk about and then you know then we started our special lady said well we want to encourage my English in general that it led to but you started to write letters probably or you know that's right and I was in Petersburg Virginia Denson consulting work and.

[00:58:07]
Then I had a weekend free and I called up and Letchworth and drove down the latch birds again you know and that was really the 1st I guess we'll idea that's why and then she went after we got married she went. Less 2 years to her and Mike and and then she went to Boston College my 2nd year at Harvard and then we moved to Dallas she graduated from the same you how wonderful I'm a she followed her as rubbish and all that that that's a great part of the story for we go any farther tell me the d.m. Smith story because I do want to hear.

[00:58:45]
Doc Smith in you you know he was just he was just incredible one thing a d.m. Salinas and you file but he did not give part pretty. It would dollar not take I mean he says there is one only one answer to either get it right or wrong just because you follow what you supposed to do and you come out with the wrong answer it's 100 percent wrong and you know if you think Bad Yes Well you're right it's not like reading s. ideas and getting fat not either get the right answer or the romance and Alice struggling in the last in the.

[00:59:26]
Final but once they're out tell you 2 quick stories one he you know he was Bobby diodes. Academic advisor I mean for the football midnight to be tutored the team player now on a tell you story about Bobby done in a minute relates to that but he called these football players a lot on who were not the brightest in the world we call them swapping tools have you ever heard that Al and that's what he called and he told us stories at one time I was up at the border right now on the board with the child everything on an exam and I turned around and said this was an angel swamp an Angel List man in the in the looking on another boy's Piper and I said to Mr So and so do you realize what you did said you are certain yourself to be expelled from school he said what in the world are you standing up there with me yes in my back he said why are you standing up looking at this paper he said Professor acting at sea Hanna Worley got to own the 2nd frog.

[01:00:32]
But here the Emslie at the finally Usually I'm in a characterless class in hours just bored in between if I remember the c. in and the n.e.a. for problem the 1st 3 candid 20 in the 4th one can in 40 k.. I got the 1st 3 correct the 4th one did everything right until my memory is the very last step you took in his problem he had inverted to do something and I failed to do that and it cost me 40 points therefore I made 60 instead of 100 and I want to hammer and yes I said I know you don't give credit but but ideas complain I said you know I struggle I said Here I am coming I've done and you know you me 60 instead of a 100 he said the family name he said I don't do this often but said I tell you what glitch you tell me when you've got a spare period and I want you to come by my office and imo give you an example of them and if you score 100 on it imo give you the c. And if you don't you get it.

[01:01:52]
Right before we set up a time to come and I don't know that after a list or many but it's absolutely true he gave me 5 problems in ash. I used to make silly dumb mistakes and made it I'm all sit here and I'm only everything I can not unlike most I work through the 1st one work through the 2nd one just about the time the whistle blew I finished the film and I took it into and he looked at it he checked that one off check that were no.

[01:02:30]
I'm holding my breath checks a 3rd one 4th one. He said you did it so I'm giving you the scene I don't know why I did it right all but out of the goodness of his heart he at least said I made 100 on landings and he you know I don't think he gave me any make up exam staining mind he was quite a humanitarian he cared about that he cared about people you cared about I one of the stories great stories I wanted it for the good it is one I heard Bobby done till the story 23 and he said he had a kid that came into play for moments and guessed outstanding you know in in football but not very smart and he said that d.m. Smith and I mean Clay Yes And Eco said by this but what no no Mike said you know you need to get him off of your team in court you know Bobby Dunn was a stickler if you gave a scholarship that you wanted you to graduate didn't care was it 4 years 5 years 6 years and Bobby said No I said I'm sticking with this boy well the 1st year the boys separated a shoulder 2nd year he broke his leg or something and he he just had a lot of problems in football but he stuck it out you know and finally he and Bob would tell a story he said this kid was a great kid but he just won all its mark and said he got hurt in asked a way and said he finally got him through **** any graduated in d.m. in spite of everything at the gym Smith told me about it I stuck with him and said he graduated said you know where that Boeing is now you could hear a pin drop when Coach done would delish to I heard 23 times he's my son in law.

[01:04:25]
That was about the day through the story of the letter that you read lend me divert lend us 1st does not want it is not how Larry and I had it and he did you know where that boy is today and then you know then why don't you use my son are you finding it hard now that those guys were legendary The legendary today and for good reason as they were exceptional human beings was not done with tremendous getting member going even as a student but you know math let the board in yet know him so I meant talking with him about student activities there are things and I remember one little thing I've told this story my children but he had he had the most you know muses outfitted him with his cloak of savory for everyone and yeah and he'd get Sheridan playing the town mine and muses so cordovan shoes Keith's house and I remember the name and goats died I see it is all I go and see him in his office like it and he'd have the sheet and it was the prettiest most you know acid if I ever get out of this q. I would buy me up.

[01:05:42]
In a court of munchies and when I went with carrots one of the 1st things I did I went down amuses him a lot and I told Coach dot I said I'm buying a pair the shoes he was faced with the value of never typing but it was worth his money whatever it was last 8 so many.

[01:06:00]
A court of and she's an abbot there many people identity I know because he was quite a damper man he was always well maybe Brown had a pair and I met him so any to me yes and so the pint of blood for $25.00 last week is true story he said I want them both the shoes.

[01:06:19]
And that's why I say truth is their God forever and they were such code they were going for a days but we now let's go back to. Bare Ok you you said where did you always settle down with your family then wonder why I don't care about you and why your children Ok so you say you bought a house and and your daddy said about raising a family then about raising a family on the try let's talk smart by the crib now come back to telling me about family so at the same shortly after you bought barrow you started already how much and yet you want him in it and you were working away at that but then another opportunity came up for you to found another company well what I didn't say in the 2 was I had a friend that.

[01:07:05]
Not is close is 4 am. In Statesboro that she grew up with her husband was gonna intercity in the retailing and he kept calling me about what do you think about the us you know and Stalin everything is so fine i can i had a hankering after that to one and she let me be the silent partner and I put in some money you put in some money and we'll start what changed and so we did we started in 19 c. in the 2 in states for.

[01:07:42]
And we still got that business going when Sporting Goods in Lady sports wear and we've got kind of an hybrid store now and then in Tallahassee Florida but when you talk you have a chain Well the athletic Eddie is a name of the sporting good stores and yell a canary in the ladies' sportswear and the pram test operation down in Tallahassee is Plato's Closet but that's all in the south Georgia apparel and Fred does most of the day to day stuff but I'm kind of always been overlooked looked at the leases and the financial side of the panel and the stuff that's still.

[01:08:28]
Now when I sold out the business in one day. I had a young man down in Thompson It was a friend of mine and he'd always wanted to kind of a decent moment assume so I gave him an interest in the business and we started a lady's sportswear business in Thompson Georgia we made goods for Brooks Brothers and or this in Talbot's was a primary customer was the upper end of the apparel price wise because the labor content is much less you know half price.

[01:09:03]
Apparelled entity isn't a low price so we were able to compete fairly successfully that menace is still going well and I did let the bank the leverage buyout of my interest in 1998 inlet. Charles Johnson take that over then you tell yourself semi-retired semi retired because you still got your fingers in a lot of pot Well I'm still trying to do this to the Athens area we moved to Athens and I see about 91 so while you were still riding on the bird Our youngest son was in Athens academy here and then I was driving to Thompson is where the Statesboro that's where retail think orders are and and so it yes made it all a lot closer for us and we wanted Byrd to with his friends in Athens to have a home in Athens so that he didn't travel back and forth with them on the school bus but 21 and in let's talk about the children start with the over someone you can say now you're the 3rd of the.

[01:10:09]
4 forwards and he's got the feel. Good if we let you go I don't care what it was generated by. The vamp because by Jim each of you have a different and then his son he's got on the m j d o u j guys name you always you can be creative so it's a little like anything they want to 18 months so what did Jim do with the g m.

[01:10:35]
Jim went to we sent him up to Macaulay in Chattanooga where boarding house Q I love that he loved that and it was just grateful I mean he stayed there for years and then when he came out of McCullough He went to Duke University and he graduated in history and Latin Justin It is interesting I went to a good thing going Well that's right and he found that out I kept trying to tell him you know to go to Georgia Tech where you make a living but any chance so he wanted to teach and that's a passion in a lot of young people coming out of school.

[01:11:12]
So he accepted a job we should use an academy in Pittsburgh which is the **** that was founded by the Mellon family Mullaney interest in Pittsburgh and he taught Latin in u.s. history. And then he started looking around just like he said and he said Now wait a minute the him out apartment What is he making and you know private school is Natori is really do pay so many advantages but same time it's our level in most private school is even lower than the public to be very on materialistic on materialistic and he'd love teaching Emini just one naturally teaching in the students he just they love me but he said you know daddy said and if I look on them a lot on how am I going to raise a family on this hour even if owl I said well he may someday be a headmaster of something you don't know but then he went to Uva and got a master's in Southern history trying to decide whether to go the academic group or he was interested in the law so he decided to go into law and he came back to the University of Georgia and here.

[01:12:26]
And God is a lot bigger and I was and then he's practice and in corporate law in fact part of that is we've lost academe has lost a wonderful teacher that's exactly why I can't make a living at it but I am curious in the study and teaching with Gussie he loved it and he was such and that's why you know after you make his mark you may turn around we know that he may at some point and he has got 2 children you know Ok we've got very little yeah you got number 5 so we're college 800 jadi and was the other child and Jim's Jim's wife is Amy in London and and she went to do 2 and is an attorney she was an attorney with drought and Samus when they married and so on and they have 2 little children girl and bits and a little boy j d Ok so we have Betsy and now Elise is 2 years younger and she went to Salem Academy in.

[01:13:26]
Winston Salem for 3 years boarding school for girls and then when she got out she went to Dave and married Carl Drake who is local home a city and he was in graduate school and they have 2 little girls Katherine the and Emily in they live in Atlanta and Carl is an investment banker in Atlanta with with Robinson how for Sun Trust Wonder Woman and then that brings us to part in Burt.

[01:13:57]
In the quest bird of the Jackal don't attack bird came to take in bird he he worked hard and was active in his activities in all my work yes yes and a lot of nobody loves your he loves a guess like at doing and maybe even more what your take back graduate.

[01:14:17]
Man you test and it was before the Olympics. For 95 when he was still he was a student it been a lengthy expose I was so was so close I mean. He gave some of the medals out in fact he made that plan which he said was not a great honor to him but he did meet him and when he came to Georgia Tech you know it in the Olympics and.

[01:14:45]
But in him I would say let's see when one of the lympics said 960 he graduated in the end of the month of I think he was a senior I think and you know graduated in 96 I think I was just doing birdie is doing fine he went when he 1st got out of taking he went with.

[01:15:05]
G.t.e. and was doing great with the and then he came to want to get to land and he came with Cable and Wireless and then he decided he wanted to start his own bids in telecommunications So he has a firm that broad source and some really outstanding men that if if he helped him and supported him and invested in the firm and what they've developed is software that can control all of the telecommunication activities of a major corporation you know what a Cell phones a telephone a d.s.l. our broadband all of those things so that they can.

[01:15:52]
Check all of the invoices it came in from the telephone companies you know and and find errors when they be in over charged or whatever and that's is business and he's beginning to make some real progress and they've taken some pages out of his dad and well I don't I don't have a credit for that burden as I'm also a patient.

[01:16:16]
I'm I'm kind of you know kind of own age about things and but Bert is economies cutely school ective Gavin Ellison you know you don't get rattled much but he's a hard worker. And he's got my confidence which I'm most thankful for lot of quite a few some on tech people that if they have supported him and invested in this business and he's just been accepted to move his business into that a d.t.c. which each thrilled over all this it's because they can that's invents.

[01:16:53]
Technology Development Center a t d c And you know and I just so couple of weeks ago his new quarters are you know on the need to logic is talking lovely language tremendous and asco means so much to me that's one of the advantages of I'm going to Georgia Tech is that fraternity not the great fraternity perfect certainty of friendship you get exactly the point and the help that Georget you know that's just a minute just break your much money can buy it's on the way beyond hoarding money back and so he's going to get a lot of help with expanding these businesses now one final area we haven't touched on and that's about your community are lies.

[01:17:40]
Did your daddy bring you up to be involved in the community did you get that from a home value or was that your own idea to just join everything well I am trying to join the everything but I have been interested I feel strongly about I have always felt strongly about it giving back to.

[01:17:58]
To the community where you when you read tech to everything you were part of everything going on there's so many things after your name in the yearbook when you think. That that's what your life is like now well when I was I was very around 14 and had a lot of support from friendship that I didn't I didn't deserve but I did get it and it meant the world to me baby Brown kind of started me off on the Yes he encouraged me it's a freshman to run to the camps Well you know and you're so I get a baby a lot of credit you know of I really do right now today you're embalmed your calls with all kinds of things well Dot in our in we feel and you know it's it's like I think so many of the people that you know we've been blessed in so many ways family was and so many ways that we can't do enough to try to help the community you know after all it's our community I'm interested in the help of the community through the hospital here I'm interested in the church and we've always been.

[01:19:16]
She was a strong Methodist and I was a strong badness going up So I felt like she was a lot stronger Methodist and I was bad but I decided to join her charity and she joined my political party so we kind of had a trade off but I didn't want us going to 2 separate charities so I have a good marriage good so I'm So I mean man I Methodist charities we join in Dallas Texas Alan Parker Methodist church there and I've been in the Methodist Church here all those years and I feel strongly about that if you know about that institute it would be a far better world than such as everybody had that philosophy but they don't well not everybody but I think.

[01:19:58]
I think most people believe when you see the people that are participating in all of the different kinds of activity as well as the Tanach of gardens or the symphony of the hospital or whatever it is **** and all that. We we need to do it I mean if I want to far far more interesting we have the freedom to do it and I think initially don't Lemon Iraqis are buying oil a day or every morning so we've we've just been blessed beyond words and you know well you certainly have had a successful life and ain't over till it's all over still by no means yes all over.

[01:20:38]
Hope hope hope will stay busy enjoying your new grandbabies all for that we do we have a place if it catches North Carolina and. I wanted a place years ago that we could just get away from get away from the telephone you know and in so this 2 bedroom condominium we had we gave it to the children a few years ago and then we bought the one right next to it so in the some ways great they can come and go they have their privacy and we haven't had a good run to those yet but it's wonderful to see those going and are you going to grow them so that we have another generation at Georgia Tech to do you've got glad you've got to bring you know girls and yeah I'll definitely don't have to guess how I know it's it's yes right now what I Janeiro what you get it help us do get burnt marry that what we've learned to work out so hard Yes And I just you know hopefully get a few you know it will come in due time and I want to fine young man I won't I mean I'm going to get married and you enjoy the same life in due time yeah we can't thank you enough for sharing with us and your busy life I know you're busy I know you've got another me to go to but just so please that you would take time now you know so much to come out and then do this I really wish Di you were.

[01:21:58]
Nash we can show you one last thing I think hopefully she'll be when she sees the stars. Hopefully she will be real look forward to that area with her thank you so much thank you but is it good Ok now just forward a little bit so you know where out the you can pull this piece one day and tell me what your stuff back 295253 other successes that you were having a Georgia Tech School was still challenging but you had your hands on it what was the school spirit if you would stop and look around put yourself back 50 years what was it like to be attacking them well it was it was very exciting it was football and in in all of the activities it was going on to a man that we we didn't go to take for football but it was important and we love Bobby done and we love the students that were involved in the football we love the ramblin right parade I have to be president of the Rahm and Ray club when I was a senior I believe maybe as a junior and I remember I had gotten another firm and big still writing and I invited Firman become my be the judge for the ram and write parade which he did well all of those things generated tremendous crew spirit and it was a feeling of a cohesive group of people you were proud to be a Georgia Tech student you're proud of your **** you were proud of its reputation proud of the activities it was going on in the school and it was a really close knit group of people I think we had maybe 700 graduates in our class and what are they do today I don't know which 1500 probably doubled at least but the spirit was tremendous in those years and just a lot of fun everybody loved having their dates and going to football games and basketball and whatever you know so it was of past.