So you know welcome
everybody to day's lecture.

We're very lucky to have Steve McDowell
with us here today Steve

is a principal and
design director at B. in a my

be in I Am i knew i was going to do that
wrong this acronyms are always tricky.

But Steve more importantly and more
immediate too to you guys Steve his firm

is working on the redesign and they're
really the completely conceptualization

of the library here on campus so
it's really fantastic to have him here

today to talk about that project and about
some of the other work of their office

their office I love the way they phrase
the their offices on their web page they

say they have four offices one main
office and three incubator offices and

you guys know that I love the word
incubate or so it's an interesting way to

kind of describe your offices be curious
to know more about what that means but.

I won't say a lot but just learning about.

The work of Steve's office has
been really interesting and

what you realize is that they have been
at the forefront of a lot of discussions

that are kind of very urgent and pressing
right now around sustainability and

environmental issues they've been doing
this stuff for a very long time and

in fact they probably were part of
developing kind of protocols around things

like lead in living building back
in the mid to early ninety's

before you know the general industry
was even talking about these things so

it's really great in that regard to
have Steve here because again they were

they were kind of at the forefront
of a lot of this discussion and

as many of you know and some of your
probably were in the Portman studio you

know Georgia Tech is in the process right
now of doing a Living Building Challenge

building on campus and
again Steve's office was very much

instrumental in even kind of initiating
that into the into the United States.

Actually completed at least one if not
more of those buildings in the States.

So I'll leave it at that but
I just really want to welcome Steve

you to the school in very glad you're
here to talk about your work OK Steve

McDowell.

Can you hear me.

But it was a nice introduction and.

I think that it could be better
office idea as it is actually.

A good word for us because I think we
even think of the cancer the office is

an incubator office but
it really comes from the idea that we

never set out to have any any
office out of the Kansas City but.

We have people that work in our office and
decide they have to live other places.

Or they go work for somebody else and
then decide they want to come back.

Or I guess really and
those those are the two examples and so

we have offices now in San Diego Los
Angeles in the morning in Washington D.C.

Kansas City and in all cases
the people that are leading those

other offices are people they had
a prior relationship with the firm and

that it you know in some respects we we
morph our firm to match where our people

need to be rather than
the other way around.

Well you know it's been going on for
about ten ten years another ten

years well you know if it works or
not but so far it works pretty good and

it actually creates a really interesting
dialogue between the offices and

there's a lot of exchange
of people work and

ideas and constantly we're working
from office to office and it's.

It's a very probably unique
in some respects strategy but

it's one it's so
far proven to be very positive for

us as we you know we we work in twelve
different countries besides us and

it's we get about a third of those
climate zones are in the U.S.

So we get to experiment with
with a lot of climate zones and

we get to experiment with a lot of
different cultures you know Los Angeles

has you know half
the world's worlds cultural.

Groups that me.

Maybe it's something they can move on but
at any rate we'll move on but

that it it's a bit about our culture and
I should also say that we're architecture

landscape architecture Internet
zine planning graphic design and

a bunch of really smart people
that help run the business and

so it's you know we're we're
very multi-disciplinary and

while you're not seen our landscape
team on this project we're working with

skipper who's a great landscape architect
and one whose work with my are a lot but

often and often we work with our own
often we work with others and so

I'll go ahead and get started and so
the title is idea of lifting spirits.

And really working
recognizing that we work for

people we're really trying to make
people's lives better through the things

that we do as designers it's
fabricators as makers as planners and

that this whole focus on people and it
some respects the big this which came for

me when I realized that it wasn't
just about making buildings or

making landscapes that it was
really working for people was.

Twenty three years ago when we
adopted our first daughter and

our first child and
I have one daughter but.

In the jury the process is you have to get
people write letters to support to say

you're a nice person and
you'd be a good pair.

And one of our close friends in
Montana wrote a letter and and

connected that architects our primary
purpose is to serve people and

quite honestly I had never thought of
before until Terri wrote that letter and

that in it it's just you know we thought
we were at that point time we were very

much focused on saving the environment and
doing all the right things for cities but

but we didn't necessarily think about
people of part of the environment and

we didn't think about people as being
cities you know it's really what cities

are or questions of people and so
that you know that was twenty three

years ago it was about the same
time as we began working.

Nationally on the same abilities
strategies and things like that but

it had a lot to do with really
forming the the the firm and so

over time when we won the twenty
eleven AI national firm award

we created this core purpose we thought
we thought it was time to step back and

really think about what it what it means
to to to be what we are as designers

we're transformation we're Transformers
we're helping organizations we're helping

a library become something much different
than it's been in the past serve students

and faculty much different than hasn't
passed really helping transform things and

and I'm going to share three more
projects besides the library and

in each case we were we were a challenge
to help create an environment

that was transformative that
would allow the learning or

the corporate world or whichever to

progress in the way that they saw fit
were very close company were about

one hundred thirty there's only about
one hundred ten in the photograph but

as I mentioned earlier we're
we're we're very cross discipline

we are live by these values that
we have developed over the years.

I've always seeking a better way of
thinking about the triple bottom line

what's good for people with good for
the ecology and nature is also good for

the pocket book thinking about
our work being generous and

to us that means that it gives back
more than it uses it gives back more

experience more value than it used
resources to build in the first place that

operated over time we think about
really being innovative but

also being replicators in understanding
the place we're building in and

how best to solve the the unique
problems of a climate

than the unique problems of culture the
unique problems of the organization and

do that in a way sometimes it's good to
replicate other times it's it requires or

cause for innovation we're always
trying to make ourselves better and

seeking excellence and whether it's and in
how a space feels when you walk into it or

the technology it takes to the way
that we work with client teams

like Gary Petherick and and
Howard in providing excellent services

to the university and
we we seek out into a city both and

how we represent our company
in our organization and

our selves but then also in
the work that we do and that it has

it recognizes where it is recognized
as the culture in that we work for

the State Department and they they hired
is under a program called the go to

promise which is really making campuses or
making embassies and.

Other.

State Department facilities overseas
making them of the place using

sustainability using cultural
sensitivity using the Tiriel and

building technologies that are are known
and represent what's of a.

But using those things
to to create authentic.

Environments that are better stewards and

better citizens of the countries
that they're located in.

We like think all of like every student
that's in here we we all want to

make a big impact we want to make
a positive impact on people's lives

on organizations in the cities we
live in and the places we work and

then lastly this understanding that
there's a lot of different people

there's a lot of different organizations
we live in this diverse world and and

it's our job to navigate that world
in a way that we we are giving back.

Through our work and honoring and

respecting every person that we come
in contact with and the another

phrase that we use to describe this is
no one knows as much as everyone and

that we really create a collaborative
environment inside the office inside

the the bigger team of
collaborators that work with.

As well as in a sense with.

The builders to craft people and all you
know really listening to people really

understand how we can use that all
the knowledge that's in the room to make

projects better and our work better and
then also thinking about making

making sure that what we do is beautiful
connected to the community gives more to

the community this is actually
a proposal for our own headquarters.

Which is a renovation of a little
building that's not very pretty but

at any rate is the idea that we're going
to give back more to the community is this

this work place laboratory park.

And more and then also this we
work with the Salk Institute

came about as in a conference we met
some of the researchers there and

realized that what we were
trying to do with daylight and

using day life and
to lift people's spirits to create better.

Garments is something that
they were measuring and

they were had developed tools and so we've
been there done to this partnership that's

moved around through different projects
and I know that some of the researchers

have been at Georgia Tech in the last
year talking to some of your faculty and

maybe some of the students as well but

really understanding how we can use
science to shape inform our design and

produce better results the.

Through through our work we've
realized that really to lift

people's spirits you have to you have to
give them we all need different kinds of

places we need places to focus we need
places to socialize to collaborate and

they can be you know they
can be within different.

Type always of spaces you can have
those same requirements and so

how do we create flexible environments
that allow people to to have

the kind of space that they need to have
at any point today and point their lives.

In a way left the sin we want to wards and
skip over that more wars but.

At any rate so this is the first of
four projects this is a project that we

that the mission statement that we
developed at the beginning is it's an open

it was it was it's one hundred year or so
old in one hundred one years old right now

one hundred years old and
twenty fifteen was a steam power plant.

Then it generated steam some of the steam
was used to directly heat the buildings

around primarily the Union Station
station in Kansas City and it also used

some of that steam to make electricity and
that electricity was used also for

those same buildings and so
that kind of the metaphor we came to that

in its own life you know the raw
material that came in was coal and

from that coal the refined energy was
the same electricity and so when we begin.

And transforming it into a place for
dance and for

creativity you can probably think
of the metaphor yourself but

people come in bodies and minds and
out goes art and out goes learning and

that goes really shaping most of
the dancers that come here for

as young children and continue
through high school they don't pick

their career path is not dance their
career path of science or architecture or

something else but they leave with this
incredible sense of discipline incredible

sense of confidence of knowledge of
themselves that really prepares them for

a life into the future and so

you can start to see the the landscape
of Kansas City the old Union say

the old Union Station the OPOWER house
the post office which is now the I.R.S.

center but it was really
an important part of the city.

And then today it's been transformed
you see downtown in the background.

For the powerhouse in the foreground.

Moshe's softies Performing Arts Center
up in the middle and the timeline for

the building again it was.

Designed the building.

Jarvis should have said he also was
the architect for Union Station and

at any rate the building had a successful
life up until one thousand nine hundred

seventy five when it was closed then and
there were serious many many we first

study that turned it
into the local brewery.

But that didn't work and so it was it
opened in two thousand and eleven as

the Center for dance and early on we saw
this kind of dichotomy between this heavy

dirty building that full of light and
the light was there on

purpose because the people that work there
needed great light needed ventilation and

this idea of creating a place
of lifting of about Lay

and began looking through
layers of design layers of.

Understanding how we could
take this whole building and

turn it into a useful tool for
meeting the needs and lifting the spirits

of the people that were going to be in the
building early programatic diagrams and

just kind of metrics on what it took to
transform the building we worked on it for

five years studying it and
trying feasibility studies before we

actually started construction and during
that time there was a ton of deterioration

had almost killed the project
as we move forward but.

It is.

In the kind of a more scientific
approach to the dance studios or

on the north side which was
the clean side where the electric

generation took place the public
areas on the south side and

kind of interstitial space in between and
circulation to support and so

on another drawing of how we exploded
it put it back together again.

The plans which I won't go through and
mid-levels But

one thing that's important in order
to do this we took a floor out and

added a new Florida support the studios
that are over on the top level

on level two so
we floated that floor in and

the reason we did that is because
you see that wall has no glass and

by loading them in we can get access
to these windows along the north

side which look out over the rail yards
and we're able to give that answer so

all the dam studios have light
all have access to the city so

this important you know kind of
connection that ballet school the ballet

the home of the company is very much
a part of the city part of the community.

And the section beautiful
section to the building so

wonderful golden start to see
some of the design ideas.

And then what it looked like when we got
there what it looks like today pretty

transformative to again so
a lot of the steel had rusted.

Due to flooding during that five year
period so the today you'll see it

there's a lot of welded plates and
things like that to keep it together that

piece of the big orange hoppers at
the top but where the coal came from the.

Coal was lifted up using a conveyor belt
up on top came down to these hoppers

each copper had a tube connected
to it to a boiler and the boiler.

Were located you can start to see
the glass block spaces in the floor

they were three story three levels high.

Providing all of that energy
what it looked like before and

in afterwards and in system diagrams
on the spaces that the dark areas or

the dance studios that they stack up
through the buildings we use the hoppers

for changing rooms for the children
stressing rooms up on the very top level.

Outside the theatre and
looking into the theater.

Was opening weekend.

This hoppers.

And then we added these stairs and really
use that interstitial space which is quite

it's all South lit quite beautiful
space that is where parents wait for

their kids or the dancers raster to
take breaks between classes and so on.

Looks at night and so

that takes this the next project like
that week a few minutes about is that.

It's a building that was made for design
lead thinking it's a business school.

Henry block is the benefactor and
Henry founded H.

and R Block tax services if you're all
familiar that he's a he's been very very

generous to Kansas City he he founded
the museum edition of Stephen Hall

designed to know if an Atkins which I know
many of you are probably familiar with

the beautiful building I was just sent
yesterday with some other architects that

were in Kansas City given to her but
it's Mr BLALOCK.

He started twenty one companies
before he was successful.

It was just about ready to quit when
because you have the money you didn't have

family money he was kind of starving and
when he finally hit it big with H. and

R Block in fact it was almost a mistake
that he conceived the company completely

differently than it turned out and so
this idea of learning from your mistakes

kind of like design right kind of like
design studio but he kept trying and and

this whole idea that I think he
realized that in some respects he was

he was the designer but he didn't know it
he was using design thinking to create

these different companies and finally.

Black was successful only because ad
salesman at the Kansas City Star We

told him how to sell it to write an ad
that would give people to come in and

buy a services they did that and
they became instantly successful and so

he he wants to treat to teach
that kind of learning from.

Experimentation and

encourage young people in business that
are that want to be in business school or

want to be in public public administration
school but that at any rate he wants young

people to learn like that and so he he saw
the Dean who passed away last year but

Tan who was the head of the school
in the building was built and

a huge collaborator Tim Key had
taught design thinking in China and

at the University of Washington and so the
idea of making a building that was really

using design thinking to get to
encourage business school students to

think differently and to learn differently
was was what the project became And

so it if I can sort of sell that on
this page but there is really creating

the building to help shape to be
designed for that new pet ecology.

And it's.

A big part of it is Mr Block has
always been a huge leader and

contributor to Kansas City and
so the building it was in it was

imperative from the very beginning that
the building be a community building to

reach out to the city that it be that it
opened up to the campus that it could be

sent be a building that would it would
draw in the community and draw in

other schools from across the campus and
as soon as a building open there would say

you know rich Missouri Kansas City has
a six year medical school program and

the first two years the medical
students are on the main campus for

the last four years they're on
that on the Hospital Hill and so

that is within two weeks a group
of second year medical students

had kind of taken over one of
the one of the classrooms at night

you know once that when everybody else
left they go in and were using it and

they were they were learning differently
and it really became kind of a model for

how some of the teaching that
the medical school affected because they

were they were creating collaborative
learning environments they were

it was peer to peer learning all
the things that the school was about but

it was happening organically which was
quite beautiful from us the during

the design process to one day made this
statement and it was that the path

of innovation is never a straight line and
what he meant by that is what he said but

also that you know innovate innovation
much like Mr Blackwell is always about

learning from your mistakes
trying things experimenting and

moving forward and so
this this pathway is actually a.

Dedication to different entrepreneurs
in Kansas City that are from

Kansas City Walt Disney Donald Hall Henry
block into each one of these

light fixtures is dedicated to a different
entrepreneur and it's a path that goes

through a garden that's the name for
Mrs Block and raise one.

And so this idea that the path of
innovation goes through the garden and

through the building
really informs the space.

There's.

Just didn't areas some of the early
sketches about how we were

conceiving the building is in a way
we were spiraling around that

this central idea of a central space.

To in order to help open the building up
to the community open it up to the campus

so there were there were it had
a North-South axis an east west axis on

the middle floors it really changes that
move through to really support the central

auditorium space it's just there's two
auditoriums in the building the sample

theater and enclosed Auditorium as well
but it's and then at the top are these

three Oculus each one facing a little bit
different direction you start to see this.

North Light cooler.

You know South life here and each
which we wish we could take credit for

that but it's one of those things that
just happens when you see those three

different colors of light
when you're in a space.

And from old buildings in new
we terra cotta panels there are.

Panels that are embedded into a precast
concrete insulated precast concrete

panels which gives us a very heavy thermal
mass at the inside layer of the concrete

if it's insulated when there's a foam
insulation another layer that holds

the precast or holds the terra cotta and
we couldn't afford to use a range green

system which is where we initially
started the process and we realized that

if we did the precast system we got this
really heavy insulated thermal mass which

is less important in Atlanta then it
isn't a climate zone like Kansas City but

it really gives the building that's
very inexpensive to operate.

Keep cool because it's a concrete frame
that kind that exposed concrete on

the inside and it really creates a very
high performing building on below and

a high performing building a mechanical
system a comfort system and so

that we like that the terra cotta
that the buildings that surround are.

Ancient in this in one thousand nine
hundred eighty five dition to an old

one nine hundred twenty five building
that were the old block school but

then there are some nine hundred fifty S.
and ninth at two thousand two yellow

blonde brick buildings that are surround
that we would paint in this fabric.

Of terra cotta to tell
the story of the place

I think its success is something
I'm not quite sure about.

But it's you start to see it this is
the West elevation on your right.

Hoops story.

And in just a set of the plans and

again just seeing how we resolved the
spaces all around this kind of very open

generous area that's kind of the heart
of the camp the heart of the school and

in some respects has been
become part of west campus.

And a view up looking at the Oculus.

Just here that goes from two to three.

And then all of that kind of intentional
collaborative design lead thinking spaces

that that range from the the out of Tory
him that the primary auditorium is and.

Lectures are classrooms to that to
the finance lab and some other spaces.

Just a few more views about

fields.

You have to do this.

For those roof terrorists and then.

Well there was no and
then one last view of the outside.

So the next project is there is a project
and Engineering Center it is for

it's a research and office facility for
twelve hundred engineers it's in

San Diego California it's a series.

I think I said it's twelve or twelve
inabilities two hundred engineers in one

building and there's a smaller building
that provides amenities services.

Health services and training and it's that

I'd have more photo project just finished
and it's not well photographed but it's so

this is there's a long bar that's.

Four hundred feet long is
the main office wing faces south.

It's uses a shading system similar
to what we're proposing for

the library project on the upper floors
it's open to the garden on the lower floor

it's focused on really trying to help.

This company and I put say their name.

Up and say it there that really helped
them position themselves to compete with

companies like Apple and
Google and some of the it's the.

The more progressive companies and
in the in the California area and

so we it was a design competition.

Which we started the process
with a lot of sketches and

things like you see but what really
helped us win is we recognized that we

kind of caught on to the fact
that even though it was.

That the buildings were kind of in this
seize a parking lot just one office

campus next to another office campus and
it really kind of destroyed nature.

These are in the in the hills of San Diego
about a mile in from the ocean quite big.

Area in its natural setting but
most of that had gone away and

yet we had a canyon and
media just actually about three hundred

yards from the center of our of our
property that no one really knew about or

no one really took advantage of and so
we really founded our common our idea on

bringing taking our campus to the canyon
bringing the canyon to the campus and

create in the landscape.

Solution that really embodied
the the plant material for

an attitude towards water and really
thinking more like the natural place and

less like the surroundings and so we had.

These five existing buildings that
are not very nice buildings four

buildings one parking structure they'd
already planted another parking structure

that's now in that in that big green
area and we had these two sites and so

that the site that we chose for the office
building is the site over in the south

southeast and
up on the north east is the location for

the amenities building plus a soccer field
that's on the north side of it we were in

it's not really fair in San Diego
the weather so easy but

we still would begin with that idea
which we pretty quickly figured out that

we could do natural ventilation and make
it work even in office environments and

we finished a project we designed the
contractors offices about a half a mile

about a mile from here which operates
without air condition without cooling and

so we were pretty confident that we could
make it work but the labs made a lot more

complicated than their energy loads are so
high is ya know in in lab buildings but so

we began with that really began with
a side of a beauty nature people really

creating a place that was going to attract
and I forgot to say this earlier they.

Company there kind of ability to
attract the best graduates was

they could they could get to the top
ten percent in their old ways in our

campus and we were part of a strategy to
move it up the top one to two percent and

so that it was they had a real
reason a mission from for

making this which I probably should have
photographs that are old there are old

campus offices but again we.

Had this image up and actually this image
came out of the work on this project

really understanding these different
spaces and then understanding how to

position the spectrum of spaces
throughout the buildings to create

an environment that really encourage
collaboration encourage people to

insurers to come out of the show
from the to really get to.

Create more good ideas attract more and

better people we have a lot of different
ideas these are the models that

we printed this is the scheme that more or
less the scheme that we selected So

it's a research bar with some office
knuckle that has communal spaces and

so long office wing on the south side but
which is probably more important as we

are creating these really positive outdoor
spaces spaces to really take advantage of.

That incredible climate which is
fairly and is more or less not done in

a mile in from the coast and that part
in office environments in San Diego and

then we conceptualize all the different
spaces that was going to take to create

those kinds of environments
both inside and outside and

in there's an example of
one of the break room and

then here's one of the labs without
equipment before it's loaded

we looked at different ways of making
people happy in their workplace.

And studied how we get natural ventilation
to work and shade the glass and

then a little more developed views this
these are this was November the building

was moved into a year ago and
things landscapes grow a lot faster in

San Diego than they do in Kansas City
maybe they grow faster I'm sure they grow

faster here but any rate they've grown
in quite nicely so there's lots of these

little moments of these outdoor spaces
that they didn't have before more so

the ones on the inside
the courtyard marked communal and

public these on the south side
are more private more focused so

and in just a couple more views
of how the building feels so

this is a view into that main and.

Courtyard up to the entrance primary
entrance of the buildings there we use our

berserk open outdoor circulation
which again that was.

Actually real estate is really
really expensive here and

the cost of land is crazy because
the buildings are not as crazy but

the value the land is
is just ridiculous and

by putting the circulation on
the outside of the building.

It didn't count against the zoning.

And so we were able to build about seven
or eight percent more building useful

building which helped their
real faith forma pro-forma.

I mean they consider that a significant
increase and I don't have photographs of

the trainee there isn't training center up
on the top of the of the South bar and.

That in that case we did all of
the ambulatory spaces the lobby and

all that of all outdoor spaces so the only
thing that are in close are the trainer

and self so.

They grow their own food they work with
the urban farmer that is so the whole

campus is populated it's not enough
food for the whole campus but they grow.

It's a fair amount and then they cook
it in the building on the right and

they serve it and then I think I can
make this run there's a nice little

Jenny Holzer piece.

You can see in there.

I see.

So anyway that's a stop
on that project of that.

So now that leads us to.

The main event so.

Now we started working on this
a little over two years ago.

Gary Patrick called one day and
told me we were shortlisted and

got excited and and then.

I guess a couple of weeks later months
later Howard called us into the room and

said.

We were going to get called back in for

whatever that's called
the second interview.

And Stuart and David and Brian and the
rest of us all walked out really happy and

excited and it's been a great
project to be associated with and

it's a says up there it's you know it's
L P three A and B. and I am in and

also in a group and I'm going to mention
image because it's really important for

one day in a group some mechanical
engineering firm has offices all over

the US They're based in Oakland but
the office we began working

with was based in Richmond and
Virginia and D.C. area.

They now have an office in Atlanta and
have had for about a year but

Tom Simpson was the primary person with
that firm that has worked with us and

helped really as well as
working with Newcombe and

Boyd and others in the Atlanta area but
it really helped us and

I think create a solution and I just
want to say that because it's a it's

this idea of no one knows as much
as everyone really working in.

In a GREAT of way in a collaborative way
with with all the people that it takes to

design to build and
I probably should also mention that.

While there are going to be
slides of their work that

there was a company called bright
spot it was part of it that.

I meet in the library brought in.

Early on to help form to really understand
what that twenty first century research

library was going to be to because it
hasn't really been done before and so

really the process has been I would
imagine has been somewhat unusual for

the campus has been unusual for us in many
respects but it's really this idea of

going into uncharted water and.

Doing something that has to last for
a long time into the future because it's

the State campus in it and
in a state building in a state program but

also has to be adaptable and
we'll talk about that and the limbo for

the changes in learning and
change and research to come along.

So.

So that you know we early
on we recognize that that

price building price go up or building
this beautiful building will have fun and

did it great it means a lot and
it's probably emotionally

even more beautiful for people that
have gone to school here in the past and

have memories of it but so we were when we
knew we were working with something that

we had to be very responsible
to very sensitive to.

We probably didn't feel the same way
about across the entire So we saw that as

an opportunity who saw the cross on terror
as an opportunity to really give it life

in a different way and I guess I didn't
say this but the impetus much of

the impetus for this was in terms of the
Cheney changing pedagogically that was.

Decided for the for
the library was also that it was

made possible by the decision to move the
books to move the books that were ninety

percent of the books away so that was
a given when we arrived and so you know we

were we were really somewhere in some ways
that some of the hard work that already

been done we we were given all the fun
work I think in some respects and so you

know beginning with this incredible asset
and you know how do we give both it and

its neighbor a new life you know
we take the books space and and.

Present towers which is really
designed for storing books I mean it's

very efficient the floor to
floor heights are very low.

It's was really and
it lines up with present our

price Gilbert where the floor for
height something or side a very well but

here it was really designed to do that so
how do we turn book space into people

space how do we you know again understand
that it's already had a long life but

how do we position it to had to be
a loose fit to be able to adjust and

change with the changing needs of
students and faculty how do we take

a building that's very much an introverted
building and make it extroverted and

have it reach out and connect to
the campus and the community how do we you

know turn what we used the word congestion
in terms of how the two buildings were

connected in that kind of awkward
underground passage how do we transform

that into one of a beautiful connection
not just between the buildings but

connecting the buildings to Cherry Street
and letting Cherry Street have life and

come back through again and check and
connect to the campus in a more

positive way connecting that caught up and
how do we you know recognise the past but

yet also recognise the future and

especially the idea that
Georgia Tech is a place of of we're

digital technology should be even
more present possibly than the.

The school with a different name and
we you know thinking about

from the earliest days of library to
the in one nine hundred fifty three nine

hundred sixty eight to that building
a few years ago to where we are today and

how we really position ourselves both and

with the understanding of history and
legacy but

also thinking about
the future we we found the.

Campus had done a really nice job
of developing a strategic plan and

from that picture to the plan we found

these kind of sets of ideas
of what a traditional campus.

Is versus what a knowledge base
community is so really this idea of

a extrovert not just a building
very extroverted in the campus and

connecting Georgia Tech to to Atlanta and
to the greater community and

to and really trying to
get the different silos of

the university to work better as
teachers to work better students and so

the notion that this in some respects that
the buildings themselves become neutral as

libraries are already are but
even stronger neutral ground so

that it brings a place
that architecture and

engineering and
other schools can come together naturally.

And that the community comes in in much
like we mentioned the block project and

in Kansas City.

And so we and we kind of develop and
we've said this word more than once but

this phrase long life was fair.

An idea of a scholarly community were
scholarship is is even more important

than it is today in terms of people coming
together and being active scholars in

the two buildings and lastly that that
the space is be inspiring that they

lift up the spirits of the the users
of the teachers of the students and

so we looked at many precedents for
how we would do that.

And I should say both indoors and
outdoors the high life you know how

we live folks up and bring them together
in positive ways we also looked at

lots of detail all kinds of interesting
diagrams about what all that means and

how we have all the supporting
technologies and daylight and

all those elements that we
could possibly imagine.

Like the diagram I'm not sure if I
really ever quite understood it but.

We looked at discovered that we
were you know really transforming

the space dramatically when we take all
those books away so the stacks were

forty six percent before eight percent so
the spaces for

people the spaces for collaborative
learning really you know filled

up the building differently than
it had been in the past and

so the numbers are pretty interesting
there were twelve hundred fifty places for

people to sit in the buildings before.

In new building or be twenty three almost
double twenty three hundred sixty five

The other thing that this
diagram talks about is.

Tom Simpson who I mentioned earlier
helped this really reduce the energy in

the building dramatically and I come to
that later but since it's on this side

I mention it and so we were going
from one hundred twenty one kill a B.

to use per square foot
a year to forty seven.

So it's a dramatic change in how much
energy the building is going to use

these are some very early sketches
that had and I found in my X.

that my comply should I'll tell you my
presentation crashed early early this

morning I had to rebuild it completely
on the plane right down here today and

then it's to reach office and so I found
these drawings by accident forgotten

all about him and certain Brian I really
can't my gosh But anyway so these

are the early sketches of what we were
trying to accomplish of how these things.

So how we take these low low
ceiling areas of cross and tower or

similar spaces and and price go
over it and how we open them up and

we create these more generous spaces
more inspirational spaces for

connecting people together for
connecting people of knowledge you know

different you know different ways of doing
that maybe we create an amphitheater

in the base of cross into our own Bob.

We'll come back to that later how we you
know really create stronger connections

from cross into our out to
South Platte the plaza Plaza.

You know how we the idea that maybe we
occupy the room of crowds on Tower or

some wonderful spaces.

Or how we connect to nature and
really let the buildings verst out and

have stronger connections the growth and
the surroundings and

this isn't that was this is the cross
on this isn't price Gilbert same idea

food's not here anymore but
still and in how we really honor and

respect the wonderful glorious
spaces of the reading rooms and

in price KRUGER And we also found
the landscape master plan that

Nelson vaults that this really beautiful
drawing this really beautiful idea that

that campus is made up of humans
made up of nature but it and

it's also made up of the man made of and
the man that the design

the landscape and
the fabricated landscape and buildings.

He.

With we actually brought this to
the interview and this importance of

connecting people to nature
from elevating learning and

how we do that through
the design of the building to.

It's.

I go outside every single day first
thing in the morning and it's and

if I don't if if I'm including when
I have early flights if I don't do.

That I know my performance
is going to be down and

so that with those ideas we
started thinking about what we're

what are the opportunities you
know how do we you know we can.

Sort of at these drawings kind of wild but
so here is pricey over process but

you know we can actually
grow connect to Plaza.

Occupy the rooftops much like has
already happened the club and so

you know we started exploring
those ideas and this one suggests.

Occupying price but we didn't end up doing
that but we explored all those ideas and

some of this was also driven
by stewards studio students

thirty two studios that
did a intercession.

Class I guess right for selected and they
shared some of their ideas about nature

and about connecting to the outdoors and
so one of the drawings that I think really

drove the design or one of the ideas
is we realized that you know the.

Cliff is active at the lower floors.

If we started to carry that activity
in that noise and that vibrancy

all the way across over to
Bobby Darby alley and so on that

you cited Bobby Dodd there was just send
then let the building become quiet or

is it goes that it just it
really opened up the door for

what became this this
passage that is almost like

I think Steve's want called it the highway
that ran across the grove level

went straight into Cluff and
really connected all these spaces and

that that became kind of the in a way
the heart of the building and and

then thinking about how we continue
that connectivity of opening up.

Cherry Street and and really

leveraging Bobby Dodd and the thinking
about the population flowing through.

And letting Cherry Street
really open up and connect and

become a connective tissue and strength
in what used to be but also really

created a new vision of of connecting
the North Campus which today is.

A much more significant part of campus
than it was when these buildings were

Heffernan sited is built first
building in the fifty's and so

that this diagram is just kind
of carrying on that notion.

With.

Hoops.

So when we started looking carefully.

At.
The.

Present hour that the show probably recall
that you know there just these little

moments of glass up through
that kind of where the made

the masses return which don't do
a good job of creating spaces for

people so we really started
looking at different strategies

of the North only a rig lazing in
North Wrigley's even north and

the south doing all glass building.

We.

We came back to something like this not
exactly that but something more like that.

And it's and but we knew there
was a kind of a constant study on

terms of how we were trying to
figure out the best strategy for

changing a building we
looked at a number of.

Different ideas the glass building
a nighttime view of that Stewart's gets.

Different ways of opening up the south.

And then which led us to the design
that I'd like to now walk us through so.

So this in north you walking up Cherry
Street walking up the hill you see if

a new bridge that connects.

Two buildings that
the original profile and

clarity of the glass of price
Gilbert has been restored that

the window wall was replaced twenty
five or thirty years ago with a.

Less elegant less didn't really match
that the original profiles are a million

spacing and things like that and
nor the glass that the.

Performative qualities of the glass and so
we've come back with a very clear glass

high performance I can't remember the name
of it but at any rate it is it's close as

we can get to what was
originally their single voice.

But yet it's very very well performing
it has this low iron glass that doesn't

change the color the light you go you get
a natural light that comes through it and

we've kind of carried
that same strategy over.

A light quality into a new good new
eaglets north wall of a present hour and

a new bridge that will come back to later
that's indoor space on levels four and

three and
in an open air bridge on level two.

A little closer you start to see
that transparency there's a.

Vertical Morgan's on the.

North side to catch the late afternoon
early morning sun to knock that down so

that will reduce a really great
environment this is a glare

free as possible so that people can be
up close to the glass and I should also

say that the glass we're using which
is we paid a lot of attention to it so

that it's has an insulating quality and

radiant quality that allows people to
be up close to it and even I know that.

Wintertime coolness is not as
much of an issue here is that in

some parts of the world but we really
paid a lot of attention to that to make

the spaces useful income for
comfortable it could be and if you come.

From Bobby Dodd like from the freshman
student housing you're walking up and

a new entrance and that becomes kind of
the that grove level highway entrance

that goes through the building and
passes all the way back to class.

And the view of it.

I think it's actually the final design.

I probably should mention it so

there's a reason a cement board declared
all of the concrete frames and so on and

then the brick stays more or
less as it is we're not insulating it we

studied it it just didn't make sense
economically but initiating system and

glass and now and you see that out of
twenty that amphitheater looks and

there's So I five and
then archives beyond on that level one

beyond.

And then a view from the west
again looking up the hill getting

closer you start to see at the top Well
first of all you see the entryway.

Right off of plaza in the Level one and
then at the top you'll see a porch

there's a pair of those one on the north
and one of them both on the south side.

On each side of a central bank and
then on the north side you can see there's

a structure up there that houses the new
reading room or multipurpose room and

then that bridge that kind
of K'NEX through and.

With the idea that it will embody and
will be an armature for for

digital media that will try to come
back to that in just a second but.

Hoops and

then on is we we pushed out a little
bit of the building on the grove level.

Which allowed us to have this nice little
terrace right on the north side of.

President our Which of course looks back
the architecture buildings and also can't.

In a sketch that really has a beautiful
view back towards the grove.

And then we're going to go inside now for
second and so

there the process of working with bright
spot work in the Bligh Barrie really

started to define all of these different
activities and types of spaces and

quality of space that were desirable for

creating this you know library of the
twenty first research library the twenty

first century you know this inspirational
that is to bring scholars together

that has long life loose fit and so
will kind of walk out so every every floor

has been come quickly transformed in and
the buildings have been reconfigured

in a great way from the mechanical
down to the lowest level to that.

To how we you know start
the years that the growth level.

And.

It's this thing is going too fast.

So.

So the grove level.

And then moving up through
the building to level one so this is

this is our cars are here in this society
by this is the big you know we use the big

reading room the scholars event network
over in the upper right hand corner.

Moving up to Level two.

And then they're going
to do everything but.

The visit lab and
multimedia zone are across from the tower.

And then we're back with the space
we've introduced a three story

volume of really emulate the two stories
volumes that are in price Gilbert to give

relief and generosity to cross on Tower.

And the more academic or fact.

The space.

Graduate space and then the reading
room pies the seventh floor and

multipurpose face that Will is less less
formal going to traditional media room but

probably using the wrong term I guess we
are still calling for a new and then solar

panels that cover the top and so the again
I kind of jumped ahead on that but

this idea of really borrowing the two
story volume Price Grabber and looking for

opportunities and so
we found a few of those in doing that for.

Him to cross one tower so
it's a nice sections start to show so

here we are at price Gilbert and then.

There are so there's over in Bobby Dodd
the three storey space I just mention in

the Reading Room two story reading room
at the ground at the Grove level of.

Present tower and in this space up stairs.

And in this is looking north through
the building so the scholars event network

interest space from from level one down
to Grove in price GRUBERT which is a new

opening in the floor and I'm sure that in
a second and then this reading room and

in the three story space and
then the reading room so.

Series of use of walking in.

One of the ideas that working
with on projected media.

Looking back towards.

Into price Gilbert into the exhibit space.

The kind of renovated reading room.

We have for building code reasons
we have to add a little glass

use guardrails the scholar's event network

two story space over by the old
entry way the original entryway

I guess I didn't say at the Rotunda
is gone the light fixture is gone.

And then coming in and
north entrance from.

A lot of credit because they've
been marking things up and

testing things all through
the zine process and

working very closely with perfectly
Stuart and Brian on all this and

then the use of that.

The amphitheatre the site.

Now the view the site if I.

Use.

And then some workspace upstairs
that three story volume.

That we have a funny name for
it and I can't remember any of it.

And then all the way up on the seventh
floor views of the deck looking out.

Another view and then quickly I just
want to share a little bit the so

we've really I think in some respects
the material approach is really trying to

honor the original materials the plaster
the colors that were in the building and

in one hundred fifty in price Gilbert
when it was built the cork flooring but

a new strategy that and
in the same way isn't present present has

the the the marble unfilled marble
walls around the elevator core which we

will have a little idea about how to
how it were approaching that but.

So we've got to just two floors here but
this is this is this is the first floor

for the really reading room at the top and
we're really you know we're just letting

cork kind of flow everywhere somewhat
very similar to what used to be and then.

Use.

And then up stairs we've switched the
carpet for reasons for cost reasons for

a lot of reasons but it's still this
you know very simple Powlett much like

this here in the first place is very
much intended to be a background for

the activity of.

Life of vitality that's going
on inside the buildings and

these There's a series of so we started
looking at the core of present our work.

Where the marbles located.

And where other things are located and
we're moving the elevator doors and

there's a lot of things that are moving
elevators and things like that and so we

realized that we could either try to patch
it or we could try to just remove it and

salvage it but
instead we took an approach of.

Studying each of the four facades and
so we're really looking to

seeing what's available what's what's
there today and what's not there today and

in different strategies of how we
could reuse in some cases and and

move marble move the stone from the
travertine from one place to another there

was no stone above the ceiling lines who
were going in so the idea is that we're.

Honoring what was there
in the first place but

we're coming back in and adjusting it and
shifting it trying to use

minimal minimal approaches possible
to both recall the past but

also kind of inside inserting
a new vision for the future.

And there's our final solution and so.

That is just about it and so there's
we're back to these kind of this idea

of layers of all the different strategies
that we incorporated which led us to

working with the climate and then this
diagram came from one of the environmental

surats of the sustainability shreds
of the beginning of the project and

where we we kind of had this aha moment
we discovered that when the highest we

started tracking when the library
was used which is you know

primarily running up to finals and then
followed up and running up the final and

we started looking at what the blue
line really represents the summertime.

Cooling load and we found out that you
know if we had just used traditional

design techniques we would have
probably would design the building for

the wrong demand and so and our goal.

General went through and really
mapped the the uses because the live.

He has incredible information on get count
on daily activity of how many people come

and go and all that so we really
refined the mechanical acquirements for

the building.

So it wouldn't be here
we also looked at how

the difference in the systems approach so

while the engineers were were studying the
systems and demand an architecture looking

at how we can you know modify the knowing
that we were going to lead the east and

west walls and insulated but really
creating high performance solutions for

all the different aspects of the building
and shading the glass in some cases

where it says what it is that they're
away and not shading in other places but

using a fret and part of the reason for
that was to kind of create these peak of

mom it's on the post poke out so
that you can look down Bobbie die or

whatever but have these kind of
you know nice capture views and

how we've really put the building
back together again and so

we're really you know it's not a great on
blip today but we're really turning in and

to a great high performance on
the low which working in concert with

the mechanical engineers and electrical
engineers is allowing this to created

a lot of solution that's really
effective that really works very

predictable we know where we need
you know how to control where how to

really create environments that
are going to be comfortable to be in and

if you know in a pretty tough footprint.

And not going to try to be the engineer
but it's really used as a number

of different systems from a traditional
wonderful orde to chill beams to the A V.

and in all cases we're using outside an
independent outside dedicated air system.

Recovery system so that we're we're
minimizing how much cooling and

heating we're doing by running the system
as well as dehumidification that.

In that way and so you start to
see Tom's diagrams in terms of how

we're pushing energy use down through the
building and how he sounded building and

using those different systems
throughout the two buildings to create

the most comfortable and
efficient system possible.

And at the end of the day we
see well we've also helped.

Can help convince the university
to upgrade the central plant and

so there's a about a forty percent
increase in efficiency through that and

then at the end of the day
we end up pushing our.

Total use down to forty seven point five
killer B.T.U.'s per square foot a year

which is a very it's a great performance
for a building where we kept fifty percent

well more than fifty percent of
the envoy as it is and we're and

we're doubling the population of
the building through that process.

And again his story on when
that energy is being use and

how it's going down and and so the.

If this wealthy can read this but so
what this is saying is that if we if we

as we've made the building more efficient
we've it at twelve hundred people or

thirteen or
people there's ninety six point eight.

Killer B.T.U.'s per person at at the end
when we double the population and

increase the efficiency by almost fifty
percent we're down to nineteen point three

So it's a I think a pretty
remarkable pretty telling story for

how integrated design and
collaboration can work and

we're then of that energy work work we're
catching about twenty percent twenty two

percent of it on the rough part
of it through the P.V. system and

about nine percent on on crossing.

I think.

So the water stories pretty nice to so
there's already you know that the camp.

Has already had a great
water history in terms of

use creating the campus the tech green and
so

we're sending our waste water there of
our great water to and storm water to

tech rain and we're able to in doing that
we're cutting the water use in half but

more importantly we're cutting them out
of water that waste water that goes

to the to the combined storm and
sanitary system of Atlanta of the city

system we're cutting that by ninety
percent which is pretty pretty remarkable

given kind of the things we didn't do.

And so I have one more thing
about the media arts and

I'm going to if you will bear with
me I'm going to try to run a little

video.

From.

So there it is.

And

this is hot off the press so.

It's outside the scope
of the main project but

it's something that the campus of been
very interested in developing and

we've been working on for
quite a while and I've actually.

Been at the same time by the viewing this
process we realized how important was to

really make that curtain wall
is transparent and elegant and

beautiful as possible to create
a neutral background and

so we the the this process is

really an beneficial to doing it so
thank you.

To a.

Yeah whatever.

So are there any

questions.

There are questions about
that the ability and so

the term we use often is long life
was fit to describe that in but

it's it comes in the part you know.

Making decisions about the design
of the building that are easier to.

Print some mechanical system is easier to
change in the future a floor system if we

use under floor displacement air which
Are you familiar with that it's a way of

putting the cable in and the air and
that cooling air and the key near and

all of that below a floor system
that can be lifted away and

have very easy access to it and.

If that's that's like a if we do
that if the buildings automatically

easier to adapt in the future if we use
movable wall systems and movable doors and

things like that for partitions on the
inside it's easier to do that if we use

lighting systems it's easier to apply
again and rather than having to bring

an electrician in the same for the same
for every waitress and the same amount of

the fancy that there are a number of
ways to do that but we also get it but

there's also the kind of fundamental
planning decisions that we try to keep

things off the glass we try to because
it's harder it takes more energy and more.

More investment in the mechanical systems
in to to keep people comfortable close

to the glass unless you're in a super run
on climate that even in San Diego would so

practice that because there are times when
the glass overheat and so it's making

wind when you do so when you don't
invest in on the edges of the buildings

to do that when you create a more uniform
system on the inside of the building for

the main body of the building it actually
allows the building to be adjusted and

shifted more easily we also.

We try to make build everything
do at least two things so

we make spaces more flexible
more adaptable and not.

Customize to the extent that
maybe we have in the past

there's sometimes that just doesn't
work if you have to meet it but

it's just it's a way of thinking
a way of planning for a change in the

future.

You mentioned delighting
in circadian rhythms and

the effects of day lighting
on DAY TO DAY human life.

I'm wondering what other sort of.

Research Base are evidence
based moves were done for

the library like the placement of.

Study areas relationship pathways and
hallways and visual exposure versus

like visual X. and Boyer is and how those
things where optimally placed are more

successfully placed together you
know it's a great question and

I mean I think it was I'm not sure
it was actively but that I mean

I'm not sure that we had the conversation
in the same way that you described it but

I think that was very much
a part of everything that.

The design process for
instance the the store

there was a there's a lot of concern
about how one interest to store and

how to prevent distractions and the fact
that it was not located next to cloth and

next to the what you considered a very
loud and probably interrupted space

there was a fair amount of concern and
so we actually closed that area off more

probably at the end of the day along
that edge for that reason to to and

we inverted their turn to rooms
to try to reduce that chance for

informal interruption I
think that the placement of.

The.
Graduate student study area really making

that given them a place that was far away
and I didn't probably didn't point that

out from from the rest of the bill
the rest of the population.

But I can't and I think it was more
informal than formal in the way that.

You described it for.

Ya.

You know.

It's it's probably more the marketplace of
knowledge it's more of a it's a place for

peer to peer learning is a place for
collaborative crowd collaborative learning

is a place for
serendipity if you still go there for

formal exposure formal interaction
with knowledge but it's but

it's also a place that
where we're again bringing

students together from either from their
school or from from other schools and

creating opportunities for
learning from from others.

It's a different series it's more
collaborative learning experiences and

maybe then the library
certainly had in the past and

then probably more collaborative than
hopefully more well I think the goal is

more collaborative than you're currently
seen in other parts of the campus so

that it it sets the stage for
that I think.

Hopefully the design the design
thinking has a role that it's

about problem solving and understanding
how to use apply that knowledge in a way

to dress the the contemporary needs
of society and and learning so

it started with the ideas of makers you
know kind of hard core makers spaces and

things like that in those kind of
pulled away for variety of reasons but.

I think it's it is just really
trying to meet people where they

are in terms of learning experiences and

needs that you know using digital
media in much more aggressive ways.

Using.

Technology and much more aggressive

ways.

So much following up on.

Kristen's question.

It's you know I think it is really
great to see the library becoming so

much more collaborative and
clearly a lot of focus on that but so

many of those interactions are captured
there they're very ephemeral.

And I'm wondering if there are any
other ways in which I mean I think

in many ways the most the most exciting
sort of celebration of geek culture

is the under the ceiling with
the digital projections are there

do you think there are opportunities
to further kind of enhancements and

celebrate geek culture
in the the next library.

I think that.

Has was never part of our
conversation I don't think maybe you

could address that but.

I think yes I think so I mean I think and

I think one of the things that is the time
frame for this project is it doesn't open.

Until.

Yuri I can't remember.

Quite awhile and so
that part of our hesitancy in fact is

is how do we really incorporate
the right how do what's the balance

do we create this neutral canvas if
you will environment black it's almost

like a black box theater but
do we create that.

And let the technology
come in as it will or

do we try to insert it
into the building and

knowing that is whatever we do today is
going to be wrong in the future and so

I think it's I mean I think
it's again the Apple Store and

Microsoft store and things like that
have been years of reference of museums

are the music director of our Museum
in Kansas City the art museum

who in their good to go show he
really wants to see this because he.

He thinks this project is about what his
museum is about and he thinks every future

of this project is about the future of the
museum and so I think it's and it's not so

much it's not just being in there
it's also how does that technology or

how did they get caught if you will
how does that go how does it is

that a library a launching pad for going
to places all across the go and I think

that's very much part of the idea and
I probably should've said earlier earlier.

And I appreciate actually your
comment your quit their quest both

questions because I realize they
didn't really say what the lie.

Of the future is meant to
be on it apologize for that

that.

Kind of zooming out a little bit I mean
the library the improvements are going to

be amazing so it's very exciting I think
everybody to see that but I'm curious in

all your work about the dialogue between
I mean clearly integrate systems.

You know performance based drivers into
your work in a kind of seamless way and

curious about the dialogue that goes
on in during the dunk design process

between you know concerns you
have about scale use materials

all those things in the kind
of performance based.

Drivers like what that dialogue is and

what kind of process you have in
play where you kind of negotiate and

because ultimately it has to be some kind
of game a trade offs it's some point.

Yeah and I mean it's tradeoffs in a lot of
ways it's tradeoffs in this building and

these buildings there were
there were just severe spatial

limitations to what we were doing and
they were in some respects and

every many limitations like all
projects and and so there's a constant.

The money one is the one is maybe
you're kind of addressing more but

we kind of have this opinion
that there's never more money so

you oyster there's always a trade
there's always a dance going on there's

always tradeoffs but
you know working with Tom Simpson and

he's not the only great engineer that
we work with in that in that regard but

it is it's it's like you know
Tom came to the interview and

they in fact the P.T.C. they were confused
they didn't know if he was an architect or

an engineer because our dialogue you
know we started that dialogue before

we even really were awarded the project of
thinking about different ways of solving

the problem of understanding that you
know to create to get the best glass

that we could get we had to
prove to the campus that it had

value and that you know to get that clear
glass there you know to get the glass that

was going to give back the spirit of the
building on the especially in north side

that we had to we had to prove that
value both in energy and comfort and so

it it is a constant dialogue I
mean it's I don't know I can't

remember not ever be in that way I mean
ever having that kind of constant working

with people like that and so it's hard
to answer your question some respects.

But in a way you you work
together to prove for

instance when we
the central planning issue.

I think the campus was
thinking about it but

when we started showing them
the impact that it could have.

It and that you know they just came about
because of this everybody was working

together we were working with
the engineers here the campus engineers.

I can't say anything mean I don't
know some ways that I should

question.

What is the reason for

getting rid of the rotund I mean I
think there are a lot of reasons why.

And is it architecture I think
we were we just felt it was

it was the wrong thing for the building
it gotten away in a lot of different ways

it immediate it got the way of
the Plaza the open space and

now we clearly had a strong.

Feeling and commitment to making strong
connections between the buildings and

outdoors and that the rotunda just
did not help that its architecture

was inconsistent with
the other two buildings and

we were you know we knew were going to we
were trying to honor price Gober in this.

Respectful and energetic way we could
you know it's not the world's greatest

building I think is what Howard told me
one time since he's not here but it's

a really beautiful building as it has a
huge history and so we are trying to give

it back as much life as we could you know
we didn't go into it but we looked the we

didn't immediately choose to put the entry
where we put it we looked at other injury

proposals that also I think all of
them always required getting rid of.

Came back to getting rid
of removing the rotunda

because it you know it just it wasn't
if you look at Spencer you go back and

look at have friends he is planning
studies for why he chose that site and

you know he was the president allowed
him to choose a side in one nine

hundred fifty one I think it was when he
started forty nine It can't remember but

you know the reason he chose it and what
he was trying to accomplish were actually

trying to put books up on the Pluto
up on the edge of the hillside there

in a way that and before you know he
imagined that there would never be

a president hour but but it would be the
books would be you know would be you know

almost like an Acropolis something we're
going to really be held up for the library

is going to be held up in this way he had
many other designs this was only one and

it was the one that was affordable
The others were more grand but

but still I think the rotunda
just got in the way I mean it.

It took away from that and especially
when you look at it you know Clapham kind

of crowded a little bit and
crowds on the ground and it and so

I think we felt that if we were going
to really connect to the campus and

you know this whole idea of letting
the knowledge out of the library and

letting the campus into the library with
was I probably didn't say that very well

earlier but but that was you know what.

What we were striving to do so.

It was Steve thank you thank you.