OK ladies and gentlemen.

Welcome you.

To.

The wonderful occasion for all of us and
one of the great things you're told

Check this out that people get together.

For a.

Whole lot of stuff that
are all many of them and

this is one of those because this
event is actually sponsored by six

people with my class and so
we have conversations about all kinds of

things and they also make it
possible to cross the river or.

Do.

Their research on.

Their backgrounds they were doing
something as part of that series which

is also part of the conference and we kind
of weird the campus question which is

open access in general to maybe
you will is a medieval study.

And the only thing that I really want.

Is to say that twenty years ago.

If you open access to.

The field of many people.

With a band and.

Basket.

From the ones.

You know five zero zero zero.

Zero people studies.

Have.

Been accessed that way.

But you know that's just a preliminary
Mark I think everybody should introduce

themselves as they speak to a lot of time
I'm really grateful to progress from

the library and report work public policy
through this through the conference.

The rest of us and everybody else.

Kind of hearing that discussion boards.

Welcome everyone and

just real quick to introduce ourselves
as a set up program from a library and

scholarly communications librarian which
means that I help your skull work.

So it's.

Widely disseminated.

And I brought HOLBROOKE I'm from the
School of Public Policy here in order to

hack.

My facts around him off so
just since you know

you all your different group for
me just so you know my identity.

And so I actually in talking
to Fred about this we

wanted to be a conversation not Italy and
we don't have any plan presentations

going to be a conversation we send some
questions around to our panel members.

But we do want to encourage
audience participation so

if you've got a question please
put your hand up there and

we'll get you involved in the conversation
as as quickly as possible.

Also being a while first one of the first
things I want to do is talk about

the definition of open access and
and say that in fact I'm not sure

that we all agree what we're talking about
when we talk about open access I just got

an e-mail yesterday about some
European Commission reports that

I find at least eleven different
definitions of open access.

One with which we may all be familiar
which happened I think before the movement

of open access really got going is
something that they Robinhood open access

to and their definition of that is
people putting their stuff online and

making it freely available
despite copyright agreements

I tend to think of open access as
something that happens within.

All off but let's start the kind
of Robin Hood motive and for

meat in particular a scholar I like to
look at it as a way to try to exercise

my freedom to publish where I want when
I want and how my work openly available

to anyone who wants to read it with me
sounds like in general a good thing I can

raise all kinds of sticky issues that
hopefully won't get in future day so

I won't go through all of them definitions
of open access basically we're

dealing with something like different ways
of making your work itself for people and

making it easily except for
a really exciting.

My definitions of open access in
the library world we also have lots there

are people that argue about it whether
it's something it's available freely is

that open access or is it only open access
if you can take it if you can reuse it and

remits it somehow I know there's been some
such and this morning about really mixing

the evil is I'm all for an open access
there's definitely proponent where

they believe that open access is only
open access if you can remove this that

scholarly work to your
benefit to create more stuff.

So we don't have to the faith which open
access definition we want to talk about

but maybe we can talk about with
the panelists what their reception.

And please say who you are and

your affiliation with the people now.

Them.

OK I'm sorry I'm starting Right on.

All sort of life really Action Comics.

I don't much like going to
relationships I was on Facebook with.

The let's see I am working in both for

it's only a question of.

Also.

Managing editor for curator of the museum
Journal which is most decidedly not over

I'm afraid I'm going.

Sort of my spare time which is actually
possibly just some more relevant to

the publication is that I'm the developer
and head writer and editor for

public radio which is an online Web What
if you're a web magazine with a platform

for essentially articles that have to
do with public history medievalism

anything relating to the intersection of
the past and present of the medieval world

and we're always looking for
contribution by the way.

Public in the public
media with dot com on so

should i just some thoughts OK here I'm so

I have very different reactions
to the idea of open access

based upon those two paths one as
managing editor for curator and

one as doing this really
nerdy online city.

There is a lot of differences between
the two Some are very obvious and

some less obvious the biggest

distinction between the two is one
of them I get paid for the my job.

And I know that that's you
know the clip I mean funny but

it's important in this discussion
actually because one of the problems one

of the big problems with open access as
far as I can tell is about authority and

about credibility I'm to certain
degree your credibility comes with

to some degree realty comes with hiring
professionals who know what they're doing

in terms of actually creating managing
editing and producing content.

Because I think that content producers.

Such such as all of us myself while.

We have this lovely and wonderful idea
that so long as we produce the content but

everything else will fall in place.

And.

My work on the reader has led me to.

A couple could conclude that very
often the medium is the message and so

if we are going to be doing online
online open access competition or

to have the credibility that will
give it kind of respect here in

academia that is necessary for hiring for
ten years that I need to talk for

each other upset over well here's
just only publishing online open

access use not if you don't use he's
not a speculum but I kind of like.

This this idea that we're writing each
other both in terms of our literal career

progression and also in terms of hard
work for a professional like recording.

In order for open access to get anywhere
it's going to need to if nothing

else look at this and the difficulty
with looking at this is that doing so

without extensive experience the easier it
now because of a lot of online tools that

have lowered the bar it is still
there is still room for that.

Kind of professional.

Credentials credibility and skill.

So yeah sort of the kind of
difficult tension between the two I

love the idea of open access I love the
idea of being able to find anything I want

to be able to get it for free and and
that's wonderful but on the other hand.

If the way that academia is set up.

Doesn't really respond very well.

Other panelists have different roles
in publishing just to keep going down

Robin you are.

With the comics Hockley archive.

Is that look the business.

I'm Robin point.

Right.

Right.

Right.

And so I approach this as one.

Story.

Of our friends but it needs.

That I also look at us primarily as
a teacher and some of the works.

Projects here.

I'm really going to.

Bring.

In undergraduate.

And so.

One of the things that I like.

Is it brings together.

Inside.

And outside.

Share.

And communicate.

Using.

You know kind of.

These.

More broadly so there is this conversation
that's happening now to me about copyright

and and how that that's just.

Also.

I think that.

It brings this conversation so
I also like to think about it in terms of.

How we could make our work actually
more accessible not just that you get.

And it's something.

That you that you can actually
download that someone.

Down one of my articles and read it and

understand what I was talking about
right there that is a question.

And then I'll say that.

The property market that I work.

Is really sort of thinking about how we.

And you know academic production and
when you're an academic.

And.

Then you come up with
additional at the center.

To have access to that work that they put.

In and that's going down the right
because they don't necessarily receive.

From.

That something that we.

Are.

Members of the.

House.

So I think increasingly particularly.

Students in.

That we need to think more about
how to work with the public

because people aren't academics at.

Thirty.

And there were.

No.

I'm not covered already so
you personally were the chair for

sixteen years.

I wrote history.

I'm also the book.

Side and my publisher and
I'm a lawsuit against.

One where I closed campus paid for course.

My.

Students.

Use We did point.

To some greedy royalties or.

I think one of them just
be careful about the point.

Session this morning.

About the dangers of thinking outside
the Pentagon I think you have

to be careful about thinking.

That the dangers are thinking
outside anything that could be.

The catalyst for

as much as we like to think of it as
cutting is essentially conservative.

And so since I prefer not to do
with emotion and you're more so.

I have great problems convincing English
professors what it is poets do and

how publishing home might be as
significant as getting an article in.

Perspective and since I'm going to
discipline the fetish as well and

how do I explain to bunch
of this is just and

school business people if you do a book
you're not taken seriously that I have

a colleague with the word monograph or
an additional word so

I think open access while it
does to simulate information

whole bunch of ways that are incredibly
useful creates more problems

in an area that is
already probably written.

Cademy is essentially not
a very nice place sometimes and

when you're trying to make
decisions regarding personnel and

positions and how you value.

We often look to others to
do the hard work for us.

If you're up for promotion and.

You are called upon to find
people in other institutions

to evaluate your work often for no money.

Has been mom's Kushan up this only chairs.

In the industry.

And one guy wrote in and said Well you
know why can't we do our own part.

But that's the voice crying in
the wilderness so if we can agree that.

Bookham popular culture with.

The.

Motion.

Are we going to agree that.

Is worth what doesn't
need to be worthy of.

So as much as it opens doors.

To closed doors in terms of academic.

Evaluation form and.

You.

Are.

Right I am right to work with your.

Math.

In.

There.

And then from reading perspective like
I want to thank you and also right here

maybe.

For me speaking.

Like I'm your you're practicing for
I got some trouble.

But some trouble getting people to read
you some of them because they are not

the way you write and you want to
do good work but you're not like.

Them but you take a while so
even if you know the book you

read that book write something about
it and send it out I really can't just

write something that you mean
that I'm up for ten years.

So I do understand and
I know we're getting it you.

But I also I was just I'm
around people that are.

In the classroom in particular has.

Told wonderful.

Possibility the first time and
I did that passive.

As a model Yes actually.

I think.

It's got.

A life.

Model you work for that and allowing
them to go that way that people think.

About things that.

They're really really really.

Like where.

Are you.

So how do.

You know how to.

Get there.

That they're trying to track down.

Some place you know get it.

Into some real problems.

And how to.

Value that stuff.

And I guess say that not you
know I think a lot of time.

There it's.

About.

Time that I'm.

Everybody.

I think our problems
with the rhetoric that.

Are.

That the hard copy books
are still selling pretty well.

On the other hand I think that the only
reason the kind of online that you

yourself are available is because
the print material that established.

Reliable and durable the kitchen.

Series for.

So.

Many series actually story new series
of books that will be published online

without any rights
whatsoever again free but

I think that the issues assessment.

Kind of in trying to
work with someone having.

A really really good play here.

I think.

I'm going to get my
versions are sometimes.

Changed.

And it really just.

Marks were you know sent by people
who use the online typing so

it's part of the words to see
this as a kind of a laboratory.

Procedure and yet clearly the point here
again is that control of the top down

versus managed by Master was actually
not to allow people to revise

the timeline but
rather just kind of suggest changes.

And you see.

This model works which is both
of you know excessive We have.

The latest thing that's happened is
that actually meant serious crime or

a very frightening life forms
Twitter Twitter and Facebook so

I think they're trying to change the way
in which kind of comes to the series and

so on and effect what goes on.

Just in terms of some other
kinds of things some general.

Public cry.

The best.

Forgive the Iraqis I'm pretty coming.

I actually don't connect this to that of
the I think the plans to just survive that

are going to result.

So there's any chance of ever trying
to as I could have repressed.

Memories of presidents are going
to actually give up he is

the.

Left and Joe I'm going to stay.

With Evans is the director
who you just cited.

And that is a society that actually
signed you know that day with Jason.

Back to his foster and
he used a story as the kind of work for

which I'm now.

Twenty four hours I want
to be other trustees and

see what the status of
this is relation to.

You know open access especially with

standards I'm using like
complete silence is fine for

that you know I don't think anybody you
know really think you know into account or

as the president steps position on it or
talk about it.

Are you reflect kind of serious
knowledge of the state side of things so

my sense is you know that
we're really sort of just.

Terms of.

That series which is it looks
like it's next to me where.

I could just see saw I'm professor of
English at the University of Northern Iowa

and my research could measure
is concerned the history of.

That of course the great
evolution over you know.

People but then over time producing
things like copyright laws.

Constricted access created marketplaces
all of these sorts of things but

I'm and I'm on this panel
because of that the editor of

go open access journal University.

Trying to.

Promote the advantages of digital.

Publication digital
archiving digital thirteen

managing communication.

So the hired girl is always open
access and different components to it

have different degrees of traditional.

Market for it to review procedures and
the others are different one program

through a new environment
is really good so.

That's the sort of what are the things I
wear that I'm here every talk about but

then the other aspect of
green open access right so

that's trying to.

Deal with that publish my girl it is
OK to people you know can access.

Universal but green open access right is
when you publish anywhere before you allow

them to publish it they have to agree or
know that you are going to publish it on

your own site usually and with your life.

And so yes they have it sometimes
get them in a bar go of a month or

year or something like that but
usually no more than a year and

then you publish it yourself and of course
all the more highly prestigious places

are do we met already so it's a matter of.

Spreading that's Route whole I think he.

Could survive in America.

Anyway so those are some of
the issues that are thinking about

what that's all sort of top.

Yes.

That's.

Your.

List.

But that's just a variation on an older
system which said you know in order to get

a full professorship you need
eighteen articles and six well and

again it's just conservative chatter
where we are even if we are far from

the mathematics department now.

I can bring up an interim disciplinary
example from what we're talking

this side I think like you Robin you
mentioned the internal and external.

The tenure part of it that's the internal
part of the outside part and I was.

Preparing for this panel I wanted to look
up with people as it was I had this vague

notion sometime in the past maybe
involving knights you know.

But so I looked at some journals
that we had access to that and

I was reading one about the video games
something about video games and using.

Study people listened in video games and
in the works there was a side of

my skull or a little bit Emery and that's.

OK Too little.

Early.

But I noticed that it was cited in
a couple of different materials and

the actual one of went to look to Looks
like OK well that's maybe I can find out

what evil is means it
was behind the table so

we're here at Georgia Tech which is
science and technology and engineering and

we don't have a lot of the the human
manatees faculty here you know we don't

have a very nice collection online so
you didn't have access to that so

I haven't read your article
you know I'll send you a copy.

Let them go through but the point is
appear at Georgia Tech you know making

video games is a huge deal here in
georgia tech computer sciences.

And so they're looking to
different fields to form.

These be one of those fields
just treat people as it's so

that's that's just a personal thing so
but this gets back to the question

I think of evaluation and whether
we're looking in terms of internal or

external standards and also were to draw
the lines of internal and external So

you've got promotion and tenure
committees that are made up probably of

people from outside the discipline but
still within the academy but

then you've got also the sort of so
that's a semi extra right evaluation but

then you've got this question of whether
you want to influence things outside your

field or even outside of academia and
if you do then you might want to

measure yourself and that's an interesting
question can you measure solve or

using standards that are different
from the ones that are accepted within

the Academy according to different
standards right so you will scholar might

be related practice to sonny boy and
to other people all that might look all

in terms of being a way to to be about it
so I think this is the kind of question

that gets raised by open access also
the question disciplinary identity and

disciplinary standards and
we're going we've allowed those.

Anderson get them

to.

Use.

Yes A.

Logical.

Might actually.

Come by the one that's
published two weeks from.

Literary.

And.

So so is there.

Between our thinking about time and
the time it takes to

text publish it at it and and that.

I mean it's actually interesting I think
it's as lawyers and legal scholars It has.

The effect of copyright all right
things that are published and

you look at things that are out.

And in the public.

That are still a threat
you know that said and

basically the place
where there is justice.

The.

Historical record is things that are out
of print and still under copyright and

there is no incentive for
those to be published they're like and

it's like just the span of my life and
you know it was pretty

amazing to look at it like fifty or
seventy years of like just so

much of what was published that's out of
print that is just basically like not

really accessible and lets you have access
to that library or something like that so

even if I wanted to use one of those
books in my class like I would

have to reprint the whole you know but
it's under copyright that's illegal and

so it does create this situation
where I'm in something else there's

it's a lot of government pressure a lot of
public pressure and that's in other fields

where there's not we're using you
know historical record that is so or.

You know.

And their research you know we don't all
just studied stuff from the fourteenth

century we study stuff from fifty years
ago or ten years ago or whatever or.

You will be.

More focused on.

Where the most recent were.

You know yeah I mean you can get
that historical perspective.

Regulatory policy.

Over time or how even you know for
people like you Richard

had medicine right at the discipline you
know if you can't get access to that's

really what the method what
the methodology was there.

So it does really weird
incentives even within them or

it's not like this perfect market
that people kind of imagine and

sometimes they think they.

Are.

Going.

To get caught.

I think you're right right.

Mike.

I'm sorry.

Right right well yeah
that is a good point but.

They get stuck on the.

Language.

They get stuck and.

They're stuck that.

Very.

Much something has happened and.

I'm stuck.

Here.

And there's a price tag and it might.

Be.

Your sense right now if your knowledge.

And they think because there.

Are.

However I was you have to do all.

Day.

Copyrighted.

That's the sort of like one of
the things that I think this.

Particular point is for
them to understand that copyright is.

Different from.

Discipline to provide attribution and
citation and that sort of thing and

I think.

The downside of copyright.

Just takes over.

Discourse about citation attribution and

that's what this is I think.

Is that.

To talk about everything so
that plagiarism becomes.

You know where but and
I paid someone to write an essay for

me and they say yes you can turn
this essay in your classes and

I that that's not even a copyright
violation there's an argument there

that I have an implied license right or
that I'm like the publisher of the author

to tend to the copyright law and
so I mean it's a name that's

plagiarism that's not stealing it's not
a copyright violation but we can look back

to how intellectual work was regulated
in a creek operate situation right and

I tell my students it was published in
the nineteenth century it's not under

copyright anymore but
you still have to fight it.

So yeah I think.

You know brings up a really good point and
the play plagiarism I think is a point

where we might have and to break apart
some of the issues that are getting.

Covered.

I

would.

Probably go with.

The group so the concept.

I mean I'm sometimes I'm
saying you know sometimes we.

Might just go for copyright.

For the science.

For the.

Ways that are.

I think obviously since the century.

I think you know the situation
we have right now is not.

Also important I think that not
all countries deal with copyright.

Copyright.

There are countries that deal with it
in a much more reasonable manner don't.

Go out of copyright
the time their copyright.

Alan you know just to satisfy.

The pockets of the people.

So I think.

Truly words.

And you know that sort of.

Regulatory.

Like when we think copyright.

It's everybody explains the simple
it's a bundle of right.

And so there's the right to
reproduce there's the right

to reveal it works there's the right.

You know remediate something the right
to translation and stuff like that and

I think we need to start talking about
how to separate That's right and

also open access it's like
a private solution like common and

and and
really if I'm just going to go out and

make a Copyright Act I think.

That's the reality of the way
that people think about how.

Things.

Happen Here outside and so I think.

Great open access
conversation going into you.

The conversation that people
are having about legislation and.

Trying to work

every.

Day that there was

a.

Rock.

And

Roll.

Your.

Eyes.

You.

Know.

That everything is in the public
in the sense of copyright and

sort of.

Copyright is an incentive for
authors to create so that they're just.

To create this marketplace.

Type character and actually.

Write about this very well and.

The idea is always as formulated and.

It's very different richer.

Moral rights and property.

Identify that your person
is much more certain and

much more significant Lancelot then they
let Americans assume the whole point

is to have like ultimately that
stuff falls out of copyright and so

we have this fake public domain that
people can draw a line in and read and.

Like so
that innovation breeds innovation and

selling And so
what we now have is a system that really.

Wants it on its head so we have plots and
we have a public domain from you know

like one January first one thousand nine
hundred eighty that's like everything

before then it's definitely in
the public domain and then it's.

One What promise of open access to all of
those people of us participating there

pushing this to you know where the baby
of Robin Hood open access to ignore

the bureaucratic pressure of the law
OK I get back to just beat Deborah and

the laws actually came into existence
because people were there for

generations before under
the previous regulations which

points out that of the matters like
fell away one into existence so

lots of open access.

Pay attention to this you know it could
be used for something I practice for

gaming that's right for taxes at the great
place to be discussing this gave me

the great model for this and it uses.

A literary device often called.

So we can see the medievalism in a game or

I think there's no reference to where
there's no reference to the OP or this or

that but
only very big very people don't get.

It clearly stated without the statement
that the literary technical who's

right that's where you get it that's what
Open access is a bit of this code axis of.

It's a historically specific
anxiety over my ignorance when I'm

having to evaluate someone
else not just the use of your.

Supply my words open access a word
we're actually very smart we actually

know a lot of stuff and I get your
illusion it's not plagiarism it's a smart

reproduction of something for
which I think that's a good idea and

I like to hear of anybody in here
the gamer especially making the first day

how you do that now in an open access way

the problem with the present closed
access right by the games and

place of the freak apps that are that's
me that's true open access right you

seen.

It

and.

We're very.

Very.

Same.

The reasons we.

Discussed next really about something
it's about the fact that the public

versus respect question.

And my my my quick approach to this is.

Not all that different institutions.

Produce.

The State of the State University
as part of his research.

And then he made.

At that institution use that
text in his classes and

for him royalties based on that.

And of course the question
was then dropping him.

By the ministry said Well.

If that happened somewhere else outside
of our state that's one thing but

if you know the page you specifically and
you've got tenure and

promotion specifically to
produce this kind of work and

now you're charging our suits you
know paying for their education and

your salaries paid by them in part for
access to that work and so

I know specifically in some states in the
United States that the real question was

Well we have to do something about that
you know make it easier you know for

students to have access to the relevant
research not text books or

specific case I realize that you know
that was one of the reasons why so

many people so many politicians and
specific state governments were so

much in favor off so-called open
access now they imagine something I

get very specific and
very targeted against such sometimes

abusive.

No no no actually no need to do
ministry or place was actually quite.

Right and it was really about
the students that that.

Should not pay for
something that he had been asked why would

he.

Have got no that wasn't the case.

I'd like to come back to
something that you said

were open access is like community
records but was copyright laws.

It's pretty confusing and
pretty out of date so

open access is like something
that we do as an academic.

To react to that so I want to if I
can get some feedback from the panel

members that are doing things that
are open in some form or another What's

what's the motivation of the part of that.

Movie you know I don't think the question
is Is my face of the question interesting

first really interesting just seems to be
true I think they're just talking about

those winds that are never going
to which is far from the best.

Teams have generously supported by their.

Own time and so it really
actually delivers the scientific.

Research you know makes it easier to
distribute it was there's no need for

the use of Steve terms of the time.

But it's also interesting to me that
the city Chaucer's you with your story on

the plus side of history is really
what feature of the software.

And so I think he just cited with
early last year some really kind of

picture of what we do kind.

Of the sort of we're simply
when you know this is so far.

So I think you have several
different kinds of models for

the rest of your product remodel.

The funding my.

Society that's a.

Very new.

Membership sort of the you.

Have I want to add also another

perspective to this which is
the individual researcher perspective.

Because I think there are these
institutions out there that are thinking

this through and thinking it through
kind of a technical way but I think that

as an individual researcher I see
these institutions out there and

then there are legal things like copyright
and then you know policies perhaps

universities like your detector open
access and you know how how can

I operate as an individual scholar
within all of those institutions and

just give you one example of how I try to
do this I found online my dissertation.

That was being put out.

As a P.D.F. for sale in the China.

The royalties are good but
nobody asked me about it.

And so what I tried to do was so
I got my Ph D.

in two thousand and four and it's where
I got my E.G. And it was just after

that they started publishing open access
electronic Beason dissertations online so

I went to the library there and
I said Will you publish my online and

make it freely available in order
to undermine you people in China

who are profiting off of my work so I
mean I think they're just various ways of

you know maneuvering around these things
and I think that one of the things we

should do as individuals is think about
how each of us we want to do that but

also we should think about how
in terms of a discipline we want

to position ourselves relative to the
larger sort of infrastructure out there so

you think in terms of how to what we want
to do it as a journal how do we want to do

it as a discipline how do we want to do it
and it will mean that dissertation model

you suggest is interesting
I'm much older than you.

So that when I finished
my dissertation and so

for I had to assign the right skill first.

Michigan which then sold.

Out of vanity ones.

Twelve copies of it to various
universities were it not me and

I did six that are right.

But you know that was a sort of.

Complicating this even for
the middle of a huge battle University

lawyers about intellectual property.

And I'm not about to life hack me.

Or anything else like that as President
Bush but I do have probably here would you

agree there is others who may be so
fortunate and

the university wants based upon I'm the
funding agency for everyone's heart and I

suppose part of my response of any age is
funding teens since we left it up on the.

Site taxpayer government money should
go into funding people themselves talk.

It could go into this so I charge for

those I paid for right but
that's that's because I think he'd.

Let me get this thing becomes
sort of endorsed boxen to open

because there are a lot
of things in there.

That kind of bumping into each other the
right to know the right to disseminate.

The right tack.

I think is a fundamental difference
between the ways in which scholars and

humanities view their work and scholars
you know on humanity we tend to the guts

of those in our public figures there are
real people who worry that it is sort of.

Where as I think people stand.

More likely to be on the news and
sentence fragments of the latest.

Voter initiative or something like
that but you know anybody who

has any background in Texas disease
on the news every night about.

So.

We may have done the store
selves in the way.

The miners will.

Work.

On it or.

Matter.

Maybe.

I give myself.

Like you know I don't go crazy
when you find the article.

Yes I think I might sound like my private.

Say yes here's my body work I know
how to use you know I can share.

One other we have.

Actually.

Talked about in your situation

where.

You.

Don't have.

To do with others to look at any.

Other way.

Is the application.

Of.

Value.

And that's what they.

Were when you see their
review of the word game.

Again.

Or.

Carolyn.

Great important new amateur
me on the role of amateur.

Historically and I and
I just spent two years working as an.

Independent.

And become a.

Part because as you know.

The library and
they had something on their shelves.

But it's not available on the library
shelf usually not your church.

Where it's it's available but
it's got access there.

I mean I was pretty much I mean
able to do any work like you know

during the semester just wasn't
teaching anywhere and and so

it just gets excluded by you
know like it's not just guy.

That works only possibility that
we might have an interest I think

all of us whether we work in chemistry or
biology or lots of you know I'm sure

there's in every discipline the history
of amateur scholarship has something that

you're kind of part.

Of the most incredible.

Sort of the public.

Was I sort of had a sense that there was
a hunger within the wider public for

good for well articles about the search.

Because the first.

Like being alive I got a little
bit over ten thousand visitors so

part of it was stupid web crazy
social media marketing push but

also part of it is because people
were cheering really interested.

And so I think one part of the discussion
was really touched on it all

is well although we haven't actually
talked a little bit is whether or

not we should be and can be engaging
with wider public not necessarily for

our own immediate professional benefits
but just for our philanthropic or

sort of this idea that we're here not just
to increase the knowledge of the academy

but more generally and so even though that
and so when we would ask the question why

do you do it I mean even though I know I'm
getting no brownie points from anybody for

doing it and putting a lot of time
into it that's why I do it because

I'm passionate about genuine public and
that's

why.

That's.

Why.

There's.

A story.

And.

I think that's a good question I
think it's a good question for

you to be talking about here I'm
just proving us as a medieval As for

a medieval there's a scholarly.

Ninety percent of people who are only
hesitation was written tired.

But I mean I think.

That this is this kind of conversation is
precisely the kind of conversation you

will be happy as a discipline
as individuals as you know

members of the the structure of
higher education how we want to

package this to two to present
ourselves and to engage with

a larger audience do we want it just to
be a conversation among ourselves where

we can have very high standards of rigor
and where we know what counts as good and

what doesn't or do we want to make it
possible to engage a much larger audience

and then have perhaps different standards
to to judge that kind of work when there's

a movement in philosophy called public
possibly right now that that is you know

it's in the supply is the realm of
like you're the real philosophy or

not well of course it's not right well but
of course it will and so

we're having this conversation now
in philosophy in a way that I think

is super healthy and then tying it
to things like open access copyright

existing institutions superimportant.

Motion tenure but
let's not forget that I'm unsure.

About is actually that all of us sorry
that many of the works we still use

many of the issues of use were actually
produced by that or so called worse or

militants as they call themselves
very probably in the long hours.

Between fifty and then twenty's.

And and that we're actually going away
from such a public you know about.

My problem I am absolutely sure it isn't.

For no other reason than
history this year this area.

We publish has my full open access as.

I think that should be.

All.

You know if somebody doesn't read
the route you want medical history.

Then that's their problem right because
the quality of the earth was used

by us as editors as authors and

again we're not responsible and
simply say that.

Something that's all it must
be better than this and.

That system has never fully worked and
it will.

And I mean it.

And I'm going

to.

Write

it.

And listening to.

It.

I think I think where we've run up
again I want to time things and

I'm going with on the panel thank.