This is a living history interview with Howard Cutter, the class of 1955, conducted by Marilyn Summers on November the 3rd, the year 2004. We are at his studio workshop in Alpharetta, Georgia. The subject of the interview today is his life in general, his experiences at Georgia Tech, and also his memory of his grandfather, class of 1892, and his father, class of 1919. Mr. Cutter, it is a pleasure to be here today. You're such a historic personage. When we look at your lineage at Georgia Tech, it's just a delight that we could find you. Like you said, Carmel, we found you. It really is. The timing couldn't be better because I'm coming up on my 50th anniversary of the class of 55. And, of course, your grandfather recorded his 50th memories, which were so important to establish things. That's right. Right. In sort of the dark days of World War II, in 1942, he wrote a long, wonderful piece about the earliest days of tech because he was a member of the first graduating class. He was actually the member of the first four-year graduating class. The first full four-year graduating class. That's right. Yeah, which made him very unique. There were just a handful of them that made it through those first four years. The first graduating class was 1890, and I think there was one in 1891, but 92 was the big year. that's right he showed up there as a freshman and went and made it through in in four years and and as far as i know my my dad took time out to go and get military training for world war one in 1818 so it took him in 1918 and and it took him five years to get out but he had a good excuse and i got out i got out in four years so well we're going to start with hd cutter who was he didn't go by the first he would have been senior once his son was born but we're talking about the hd cutter interesting that they didn't use their names they only used initials in those days that's right all the early catalogs everything is everybody's initials and he was from macon georgia he was he was a he was born in macon as was his dad uh his his grandfather uh had come to savannah from new england in the early 1800s had opened up a trading business shipping stuff back and forth from... Now, this was your grandfather's grandfather. This is my grandfather's grandfather. So, we're talking about your great-great. Yes. So, this is early 1800s. The reason I say that is because he migrated down from Savannah to Darien and there was a navigable path up to Macon from there. So, he came to Macon when it was still an Indian trading post in the early 1800s and settled on the East Bank there and started operating barges. And that established the Cutter family in Macon as some of the early settlers. So your grandfather actually was born in Macon. Yes. How much do you remember about him? How does he stand out in your memory? He was a wonderfully kind and loving guy. I think he was a disciplinarian. He was very self-disciplined. I've got a picture of him when I was three and a half that I think was dated, let's see. this is this is my grandfather and me and and my grandmother and this is summer of 1936 he would have been 55 at the time and you were just and I was I was three and a half what was his career choice he majored in in mechanical engineering but he basically became a civil engineer and he ended up being the the county surveyor for Bibb County down in Macon so he came up to tech because the school had just opened and it was going to be the salvaging of the Georgia economy because the state was so destitute after the war and everything that's right he had he had started as a freshman at Emory at Oxford and had when Georgia Tech was established they recruited the head of that university to come and be the head at Georgia Tech, to be the president at Georgia Tech, and so it was natural that he would follow there, and he got a scholarship, too. So they were allowing, I think, two scholarships per county, initially, I mean, that was just the way, and it was interesting, your grandfather was a great writer, he wrote lots and lots of accounts of that time, and I remember reading where he wrote that you passed a test to get there, but they weren't satisfied with just that test, once you got there, you had to go in the chapel and do another test. He was really lucky he said that he managed to survive all the testing. So he was there in the original class in 1888 when the school opened. Yes. He came into some level of notoriety about 50 years later when he wrote to Tech on the occasion of the 50th anniversary of his class of 1892 about those early days, his memories of all the things that went on there and I've got a copy of the 75th anniversary alumni magazine and I just I want to read you a couple of things that he says he starts out the article called an early history of Georgia Tech one September more in 1888 found me knocking at the front door of Georgia for in minutes. I think that's great. He's quite a writer. Yes. He said his father was a building contractor, wanted me to have technical training, heard that civil engineers could make a lot of money, and that's what I decided. But we only had one degree, which was mechanical engineering. That's right. So he was adaptable. He decided to get that degree. He had to have lived on the campus then, because Macon was too far for a commute. That's right. Do you happen to have any recollection of where he would have lived? I don't, but I bet we've got city directories from back then at the Atlanta History Center, because I volunteered there at one time, and so I bet we could go back and look and see where he did live. I know where my dad lived in the 18, in 1918. Your grandfather could have lived on campus, because some of the kids did get together and build what they called the shacks they were the early dormitories but they didn't have heat they didn't have light i mean they were pretty primitive yeah north avenue was pretty far out of town at the time yeah hard enough to believe it was really the ******* yeah very much the ******* so he came to a different georgia tech than we know now quite a bit even known 50 years ago as as i did 50 years ago yeah it's a very different place but when we go back to that time there was just the two buildings the the tower building they're both tower building. One was the shop and one was the academic tower. And he talks eloquently about going into the chapel and taking the tests and being there. And he gave us our first clue to school colors because he's the one that recited that it was white and gold and blue. That's right. I didn't know that until I read his writings from 1942 when he said we picked the colors and they were white and gold and blue. And blue. Oh, you know, that's just been his, he's quoted off now and the struggle of white and gold, you know that, hey, blue's okay. That's right. And he actually said that pins were made. He remembered that a pin was made to demonstrate the three colors. Yes. Boy, we haven't got that pin, and wouldn't we give our souls to find one? So, but you have very few memorabilia, or no memorabilia left from him at all. I've got a few pieces of memorabilia from my dad from 1918, 19 timeframe, but nothing at all from him. Yeah. No one ever knew the value of it. Except good memories. Yeah, good memories. Well, there's something to be said for good memories. But no one, of course, would have even begun to guess what the value of all that would have been if only he had been saved. It sounds like he had a great tech experience, though. He did. He told a wonderful story in his writing, and these words really are etched in my recollection. He's talking about the origins of the Rambling Wreck fight song, and he says it came about from a fraternity brother of his who wrote the lyrics and it was first sung in a baseball trip to the University of Georgia. Auburn. It was the University of Auburn that they played, I think he said. What I read was Georgia, but you perhaps can correct me. But the point was that he said we had a wonderful time and we brought home the bacon. Yeah, I saw that line. And I think that's such a yeah that's such a wonderful it's a great out of out of vogue expression but it sort of conveys yeah it says so it made us I mean it made us understand that they were very pressured academically to produce they were also pressured to work in the shops half day would have been academics the other half day shops under the jurisdiction of the uncles which he also talks about some of the early uncles Uncle Billy and Uncle Si yes he never mentions Uncle Heine which is surprising because I know Uncle Heine was there when it began, and for some reason he didn't mention that, and Uncle Heine was in charge of the woodworking shop, which brings us home to you today, but in any event, it was interesting because he showed how everything was laid out. The boys were disciplined, they went to chapel, they dressed properly early in the day, and then they went and put work clothes on and checked in, according to the tradition of the time, the whistle would blow just like it would in a factory, and they'd put their time cards in and punch in and learn how to do things with their hands yes their mission from the very beginning and we have oral history from the first guy to graduate HL Smith was that they would get trades they would establish businesses and hire other Georgia Tech graduates so that they could build the state's economy it wasn't to be just Atlanta but the entire state of Georgia and certainly that's what they did that's right they bonded together and they did start companies. Now, what business did your grandfather go into? When he returned to Macon, he did a variety of things, but his main job that he settled into quickly was he became the Bibb County Surveyor. And it was a wonderful job because he was able to be out of doors all the time. So he was civil engineering then. That's right. He morphed from his mechanical engineering degree into a civil engineer, and he was the county surveyor. Did he hold that position for a long time? he did that was a lifetime career job and and it was wonderful because when he died and i went back and sorted through some of his belongings he had acquired little pieces of land here and there they weren't worth much at the time but they seemed to be taken in barter for having done surveying jobs and and the the property owner couldn't pay him but could give him a little parcel of lands so he of land here and there. His father settled on the east bank of the Oak Mulgee in the early 1800s, which is being in the barge business, taking cotton up and down the Oak Mulgee. Take it to market. Yep, to market. The barge builders were on the east bank of the Oak Mulgee, so that's where he settled and that's where the old family homestead was. But if you've been to Macon recently, you know all the prime property is up on the west side, up on the hills. He lived in Macon his whole life then? He did, and my dad was born there and lived there. And how many children did he have? He had two kids, my dad and a brother who was a younger brother who also lived in Macon all of his life. My dad, after Tech, moved to Atlanta and married my mom. Now, let's go back to your dad, your grandfather married right after he graduated from school, apparently, or not long after, because your dad was born, what, in 1896? 18, let's see, when was your dad born? I've got it right here. He was born in 1897. Yeah, I thought it was 1897. So, as a matter of fact, I do recall looking, there was approximately 10 months between my grandfather's marriage and my father's birth. So they were still sort of an engineer getting it right now. But he had only been out of tech five years or four years when he married and then he had. Now, do you suppose he raised your father for an affection and a bond towards Georgia Tech? You know, my dad died young, so I never had that conversation with him. But it was always an article of faith when I was growing up that we were all tech men and I would be a tech man. It was never any question. wasn't around, you still got the message that way then. So it was a natural thing for your father then to go to Georgia Tech. And quite a few boys in the outstate, away from Atlanta did come, because there really wasn't. If you were going to go into some sort of engineering, there really was nowhere else. That's right. It was the place to go. There were other good places to get an education in Georgia, but if you wanted a technical education, Tech was the place. And your dad came to Tech in 1914. Yes. So your grandfather had the privilege and the pride of seeing him come, and he actually lived a long time. He lived longer than your dad, didn't he? He lived until I believe he was 82, so he didn't live long enough to see me make the decision to go to Tech, but I knew he wanted that to be. Well, he wrote it somewhere. I read it where he said, I have a little grandson, 10 or 11 years old, or I think it referred to his 10-year-old, that we can only hope, you know, we'll go on to Georgia Tech, because he was priding himself, which is how I came to call you in the first place, because I read the article, I wonder if that grandson is still alive, and if he did go to Georgia Tech, and of course we discovered that you had indeed. Indeed he did. Your dad went back to, or went to Tech with the same degree, mechanical engineering. No, he actually got a civil engineering degree. Oh, he did get civil engineering? Yes. Yes. and we don't know too much about your dad other than that he did come in 1914 took a year off for war preparation and then the war ended thank goodness and he didn't have to go off to war so he came back and finished his degree that's right he he apparently did not return to macon for any long period of time settled in atlanta after coming back and graduating in 1919 went to He went to work for a local engineering company and worked there for a couple of years, and then the city of Atlanta established its first planning department and city planning, and they hired my dad, a 23, 4-year-old, to be the first director of city planning for the city of Atlanta. And when you go back and study some of that early work in the newspaper, in the archives, you can see the way that the city was shaped and how it was zoned and he was there and so he's credited with being the first director of planning for the city of Atlanta very very interesting he probably went to work for Chip Robert because Chip Robert had graduated just a couple of years before he matriculated he was very very influential in Atlanta and I think I read somewhere that your father had gone to work for Robert engineering architectural engineering it was both it was an architectural engineering firm but they were very influential in the city of Atlanta in the state of Georgia I also recall the name of someone named JB McCrary oh sure mr. McCrary was very early graduate yes and my dad worked with him as well as a matter of fact mr. McCrary was the initiator of the the Georgia School of Commerce the you know Georgia Tech started at that time they call it Georgia School of Technology School of Commerce, and McCrary is the one, along with a couple of other folks, that got it going. He thought there should be some more opportunities for people who already had degrees to learn more about the business of running a business. And McCrary hired all tech men. Yes. That's all he hired was tech men. Yes. So your dad was a part of that group that was really establishing the gung-ho attitude of the city of Atlanta. That's right. So he met your mother sometime. He met my mom. she had made her debut in Atlanta she was she was born in Griffin and her sister had moved to Atlanta and married and her sister was instrumental in getting mom's debut established at the Piedmont Drive oh and somewhere along the line my dad discovered my mom and and they got married and settled here and my dad left the city of Atlanta and went to work for southeastern underwriters Association and I remember asking my dad what does that mean and he He said, it's kind of like what a doctor is for life insurance. We are, as underwriters, we are that way to businesses and buildings. And where did he move away to then? Well, he stayed right here in Atlanta. Oh, I thought you said he moved away. No, he left the city of Atlanta job after a couple of years and moved into the private sector. But continued to maintain his residence in Atlanta. So you were born in the city of Atlanta. That's right. And how many children did your father have? He had two sons, my younger brother and me. Okay. And what's your younger brother's name? My younger brother's name, Douglas Boyd Cutter. Okay. He would have gone to Georgia Tech, I'm sure, had he not gotten an appointment to the Naval Academy. Ah, well, some things take priority. That's right, that's right. The price was right. Yeah, it definitely was. Yes, yeah. So, but you, the boys were raised here in Atlanta. Yes. So Atlanta is your home. That's right. We were raised in Ansley Park and then in 1939 moved out to Garden Hills and I went to Garden Hills Elementary School and to what was known as North Fulton High School. It's now the Atlanta International School. Let's back up to when you were a little boy. Now you were born in 1933. That's right. And your father had actually graduated from TAC in 1918 so he took a while before he established his family. Yes. As opposed to your granddaddy. that's right who got right at it so your dad was pretty well established as a business person before you came along that's right that's right and what part of the city did you live in did your dad settle in we we uh when i was born it was in ansley park right near the uh the uh piedmont not the piedmont ansley park right right across from the ansley park golf course And in 1939, we moved as far north as you could at that time, which was Garden Hills. And so we settled there. So he clearly was establishing himself in Midtown, in Atlanta, as part of Atlanta. Your father died at a very young age. He did. He had a heart attack. And as a matter of fact, he told my mom that he had chest pains that night and was going to go see his physician who gave him a complete checkup such as it is in 1945 and said, you're just fine, not a problem in the world. And he died just moments later. Isn't that something? And you were how old? I was seventh grade, would have been 11 years old. And your brother was even younger than that. Yeah, my brother was just two. So mother was left with two youngsters to raise on her own. That's right. That's right. Tough times. And it was a tough The war was just over. I remember gas rationing and sugar rationing and butter rationing and all those things. Even though you only were exposed to your father those few years, you still got the message that you probably would go to Georgia Tech? You know, I think the jury was still out in my dad's mind because I really had difficult times with math and analytical problem solving skills. I finally managed to master that when I went to tech and got what I think is a world-class education. And the thing that makes me know that is that in 1955 when I graduated, I got a job offer for every interview that I took. And times come and go, but 1955 was a high-demand time for people with technical training. And so you were in the right place at the right time. That's right. Before we go into your life, let's just go back and make sure we covered everything that you wanted to share about your grandfather and your father, because they're not here to tell their stories anymore. That's right, that's right. We do have a picture that I want you to show us of your grandfather and your father and your great-grandfather. This is a wonderful picture from, this is, I dated this 1898, because my dad was born in 1897. So it was right about that time. The man with the beard would have been your great-grandfather. The man with the beard was the great-grandfather. The barge wife. Yeah. Fought in the Civil War, went in with the Floyd rifles in April of 1861. I'm not sure you ever told us his name. His name is still very much in debate. We call him M.H. Cutter. It was fashionable to have lots of different names, but the M has had six or seven different meanings. You're kidding me, really. What's the family take on it? What do you think he is? It's something like Malathion, but we don't think that is a real name. But it appears with literally six or seven different spellings as you go through. And what was the H for? Was it Howard? It was Hayward. H-A-Y-W-A-R-D. It may have morphed into Howard. We don't know. Because there are a lot of misspellings that go on. This is a wonderful picture because it shows your grandfather just a few years after he graduated from Texas Tech. That's right. He was 26 or 27, I think, at that time. And that's the only photo we have of him. But maybe we'll take it back to the archives, because we do have some early photographs, but they're not identified. Yes. And maybe we can put that against them and identify them. Well, I have over there, if we can grab that and take a look at it, the book on the left. This is a book, sorry about that. Oh, Images and Memories. Yes, Images and Memories. This is him with his ATO brothers. With a huge mustache, which he dusted away. No, no, I'm sorry. That picture we probably have, we just didn't know who it was. It doesn't look like him, but the attribution is that that is him. Do you think that's right? He was a charter member of ATO. That's great. We'll follow up on that one too and see if we can find him. He certainly left an impression on Georgia Tech big time because he wrote. Yes. He left his memories. He left his recollections. So that makes him a very important part of our history. Well, it's interesting. I think there was a love of putting ideas to the test of the written word because his father, the Civil War veteran, about 20 or 30 years after the war ended, wrote a series of articles that appeared in the Macon Telegraph about the Floyd rifles and their trips all the way up the East Coast. They fought in Gettysburg. They fought in Deep Bottom. They fought in Malvern Hill. They fought for Civil War buffs. They were at all the hot places. And he was finally taken a prisoner right toward the end of the war. So the Cutter men had a penchant for telling their stories. Yes. They were a natural story. Passing on the tradition, passing on the history. That's right. And aren't we lucky? Because we wouldn't have known. There's so many things H.D. Cutter recorded that there's no other reference to, like the school color. Yes. His is one of many recollections about the Rambling Wreck. Once the band started in 1908, some of those folks had been around for a few years and they had recollections of it and the newspaper accounts of the time had recollections. But it's very important that we try to document those things and he was just a superlative benefit to us to have him. Now, did your father write? Was he prolific in any way? He was a good writer, but I don't know that he did anything for publication of the sort that my grandfather did I haven't come across no I haven't come I've seen his writing from a business standpoint he's writing to my mother his writing to me and when I was a collection here of letters that he wrote that's right this started school at Georgia Tech which is just amazing that he accounted for every penny to your mom your grandmother right This is the material that a nephew gave me that dates from 1914 to 15, and it has to do with him writing his mother to account for how he's spending his money. Just an amazing story. You know, it tells of a different time. Yes, yeah, yeah. He's writing and complaining about being nickel and dime for things that you had to buy when you were a freshman at Tech. He said, believe me, they try to get as much as they can out of you. Have had to buy your own bowl, your own pitcher, your own slop jar, your own electric light stand, globe, and your own mailbox if you wanted to get any mail. Isn't that amazing? I didn't know that. And that was in 1914. Yes, that's right. They were still not being provided with much. That's right. And it says that he was able to buy all of that used from a roommate for a dollar. That's right. He decided he was a really square fellow. Yes, he was a really square fellow. Where did your father live? Did he say he lived on campus? He lived on campus. I don't see an address here, but I think he lived in rental property off campus, not in a dormitory. I have a vague recollection of doing some looking up in the city directory of that time and seeing him. found him in what appeared to be an off-campus location because it's possible I mean we already did have a few dormitories by that time we had the Knowles dormitory and we had the Swan dormitory so it's possible that he could have been yeah especially if he's talking about having to buy things yes because why would anyone want you to buy if you lived off campus yeah it makes more sense that yes and of course that speaks to the fact there were very few facilities that they had to buy these kinds of things. That's right, that's right. You know, your water and pitcher and slop jar. Yes, yes. You would have thought, so heaven only knows. You can picture sitting on a pitcher on a sideboard with a marble top and shaving before class. Yeah, I can't. In fact, we recreated a dorm room in the dorm room exhibit at the Success Center 10 years ago, and we picked 1905 for the room, and that's exactly what it does. Yes. It wasn't a marble top it was just a plain old wooden one but it was very important that you have those kinds of things in there as part of the because they were still expected to dress up in the morning and go to chapel and go to school yes until the whistle blew for them to go to shop classes again because your father would have had all that shop training also yes as did i as a matter of fact i was talking with a friend the other day about wanting to find someone who who did welding, and I said, I was taught how to weld at Georgia Tech, you know, 55 years ago. You wouldn't think you'd ever do that. Isn't that funny? It was probably shortly after you left that those kinds of things went to other kinds of labs rather than shop, and they probably called it a lab when you were there. That's right. It was, I think, to give you empathy for people you were going to be managing and supervising. Yes. You had to learn everything hands-on. Well, it was a wonderful tradition that both your grandfather and your father were a part of because we know it gave them a well-rounded education and they were successful in doing that. So your father's career was very short-lived because of his early demise, which is very sad. But you got the message enough to get there yourself. Somehow I muddled through. I had a good, it turned out I had a very good high school education. Well, you're rushing ahead. We're going to go back to the beginning, so we're going to start over as to where you began. When we start your story, Mr. Cutter, we want to start right at the beginning. So tell me, what were your earliest recollections of Atlanta? At what age do you start remembering things? It's hard to know what I remember of my own accord or what I've seen from scrapbooks, so I'll blend them together. In 1933, you were born. I was in 1933, born, family living across from the Ansley Park golf course at Avery Drive in what now would be considered Midtown Atlanta. And there was a cherry tree across from the house, I recall, and I had a wonderful backyard. And my mother was a stay-at-home mom, as you might imagine, in 1933. And somewhere along the line, it was time for me to go to preschool, and there was a kindergarten at, I'm trying to think of the name of the school, and I'll string it up, it'll come to me, Spring Street Elementary School. It was called Spring Street Elementary School. It's where the Center for the Puppetry Arts is now. That's right, that's right. I went to kindergarten there. And then somehow, Mom and Dad decided it would be good to get out of the hustle and bustle of downtown Atlanta in 1930. Can you imagine? In 1939. What could it have been? So we moved six miles north to just before you got to Buckhead, an area known as Garden Hills. Do you remember what street you lived on? I lived on Rumson Road, which is the road that runs right into the Cathedral of St. Philip at Peachtree. Lived at 239 Rumson. And that's probably where your biggest bulk of your childhood memories started. That's right. That's where the childhood memories began. And the wonderful thing about where we lived is I was just sort of like a third of a mile away from the Garden Hills Elementary School. And I don't recall there being such a thing as a school bus. But I was able to cut through a yard across the street and go directly to Garden Hills. So it was an easy thing. And it was an easy thing to do. So I grew up there, and the family was very active at the Cathedral of St. Philip. I was an altar boy at an early age, sang in the choir, did all those things. You had an idyllic childhood? Yeah, it was just really great. When I was old enough, I could walk up to Peachtree Road and get on the number 23 trackless trolley and ride downtown to the movies by myself. And your parents would let you do that? Yeah, that's right. How old, do you think? I guess maybe 7th or 8th grade, somewhere along in there. So you were 13 or 14 years old, and they were letting you just go off and do your own thing, huh? Amazing. And I have a recollection that is sad, because it seemed wrong to me at the time. Segregation was still in four then, and you would get on the trolley to go downtown, and there was a yellow line on the floor of the trolley and the ****** had to sit behind that yellow line and the ****** sat in front. Well, at time for all the maids and servants to go back home living in Midtown in downtown, they would get on the bus and they would be packed like sardines in the back of the bus and the front would be empty and it seemed so unfair to me at the time and it's still as a child and I think it was because I grew up with a very not liberal but very tolerant and and progressive family environment so I was I was brought up well do you remember what it cost to ride a the trackless trolley I remember it I remember the movies cost a dime on Saturday at the Buckhead that's right yeah you know so your parents could give you a quarter and you could live high on the hog, right? That's right. And movies were a big part growing up. Saturday, double features at the Buckhead Theater were just great. And you not only got a double feature with Roy Rogers and people like that, but you had serials, which were serialized segments of mystery and drama shows that kept you coming back. The early soap opera kind of thing. It was sort of like a 10-minute segment of a one-hour story, and you would have to come back the next Saturday to get the next part of the story. How fun. I don't think anyone's ever told me that before about that. So go into movies, probably pick up baseball, neighborhood things. I started working early. I worked at the Garden Hills swimming pool, initially picking up broken Coke bottles based on however much I picked up, and then ultimately ended up working there in the concession stand and the locker room. So your parents raised you with a work ethic. Yeah. You weren't privileged. You were going to go earn some money. That's right. That's right. And it just came very naturally. And how did you do in school, at Garden Hill School? I was a very talented artist and creative person, and I was very mischievous. It was one of those things when I think in counseling sessions, they would tell my folks that he really has a very good mind when he applies himself. Easily distracted. That's right. And easily distracted. You had fun though. But I made lifelong friends that I still see there. Isn't that amazing? And after seventh grade, went on to North Fulton High School. Which is interesting because it was a combination junior high, high school then? Because seventh grade? No, what happened in my year, which was 19, let's see, 1950 was when I went to North Fulton. No, I'm sorry, 1946 was when I went to North Fulton. They had just changed high school from four years to five years. Prior to that, you could go to seven years of elementary school and four years of high school, and you'd be good to go. So it shifted from 11 years to 12 years, starting with the class of 1946, I believe, at North Fulton. So I went to five years at North Fulton High School, now the Atlanta International School. Was that a good school to go to? It was a wonderful school. It was the only high school south of Chattanooga, as far as I know. There may have been something in Rome, but I never would have known about that. But people from Sandy Springs and Alpharetta came to North Fulton, although Milton High School opened in Alpharetta. I've talked to people who went to that school before, and it seems as though they made such strong friendships. They're still all friends, too. Half a dozen of my best friends are people that I knew at Garden Hills and North Fulton, or that I met at North Fulton. And the magnet schools for North Fulton were R.L. Hope on Piedmont near Peachtree, and E. Rivers, which is still there at Peachtree Battle in Peachtree. A whole generation before you, I've interviewed people who went there, and that's where the story of the jellies and the pinks came from. That's right. Ann Riverson's book about the jellies and the pinks. Was that still going on when you were there? Were you part of that? It was at its absolute peak. Oh, it was at its peak. So you were part of the jellies and the pinks. I forget now which were the which. I imagine the pinks were the girls. The jellies were the guys. Okay, that's insensible. And I'll tell you what you did to be a gel. You wore penny loafers, white socks, real Levi's, the 501 Levi, a cashmere sweater from John Gerrell, and an Oxford cloth button-down shirt that would be a crew. So you were totally preppy looking back then. What did the name jelly mean? I don't know its real derivation, but it had to do with the fact that you were showing off. You were jelling and you were cool. Oh, jelling that way, okay. It may have predated that current meaning of jelling. But it has the same value. What a fun time for you to grow up. Oh, yeah. It was just great. What were your biggest interests besides drawing and art at that time of your life? I loved music. There was a record store in Garden Hills where you could go and listen to music. There still is a record store there. Yes, but it had little booths where you could go in and you could basically audition a record. You'd go to the proprietor, whose name was Jim Soleil, and you'd say, I'd like to get this Johnny Ray 45, or this Johnny Ray, but I want to hear it first. And so you could go with your date into the little audition room and listen to music and come back and say, thanks, I don't believe I want it. And they let you do that over and over and over again. You'd have a cheap date. Yeah. So I like music. I loved drawing. My mother was a very good artist, and I ended up channeling that into doing cartoons for the newspaper and for the yearbook. So you were part of the yearbook staff at North Fulton? An unofficial member of the yearbook staff. A contributor. That's right. but you must look back at those times you escaped the worry of World War II you were there at a wonderful time of life because your father didn't go on well no, your father was still alive that's right, he wanted to go to the Navy and he was not I'm not sure if it was his age or his vision but he was not able to enlist and he was married and had children he was an air raid warden I recall and he had a white air raid warden's hat and we put up blinds or I guess air raid curtains over the window they weren't blinds they were like putting black cloth over the windows so no light so no light because we were we were sure that that ******* were going to fly across the Atlantic or the Pacific and bomb Atlanta and you what you mentioned too you remember rationing and things of that sort so you do have some pretty it impacted you but yes not to the point where you had to suffer from I yeah I felt like all things considered we we we were we were very fortunate after my dad died and and the income dropped we were I remember we were we were struggling how did your mother support you and your brother did she get a job no and she yes she did have a job after a while but when when I was young and we were growing up she was a full-time mother we rented out a room during the war or during the period right after the war so she got some income from that and my dad had some pretty good insurance so yeah and she had she had Social Security benefits but he wasn't insurance would make one yes that he was you know yeah aware of that so but it still had to be awfully tough for her. Yeah, it was. I don't want to say that I went to Georgia Tech because it was cheap, but it didn't hurt. The tuition was about $210 a year for in-state students in my freshman year. And did your mom ever question that that was a good investment, or did she always encourage you? She said, I think we ought to get you a scholarship, And sure enough, I did. Oh, did you? On what grounds? Academics? No, need. Not academics. Not academics. Although I did manage to eke out an upper third in my graduating class. Well, that's cool. Which really looked good on my resume. Yeah, that's really cool. Was there ever a chance that you wouldn't have gone to Georgia Tech, or was that pretty much on your mind? I have to ask, because you were very art-inclined. Yeah, I had an aunt who was an industrial psychologist, and she had some tests done for me. She lived in Chicago and was a very avant-garde lady, and wanted to find out really where I would be best suited. And so she tested you? And so she tested me, and I'm not sure what she found, but I remember ending up at the Martha Berry School in North Georgia for an interview. And I said, I don't want to go here. I want to go to Georgia Tech. Talk about boondocks, that was really a fire piece, that was a fine school, but not what you had in mind. I imagine you had friends going to Georgia Tech. I did. Most all of my good friends either went to Tech, a couple went to Vanderbilt and one went to University of Georgia. But there's very few people at that time of life, 17, 18 years old, that don't want to be where their peers are if they wanted to you know the cool thing is to go where lots of people you know do you remember your first day at georgia tech um i remember my my earliest days largely from how i got to school how did you get to school a good friend of mine had a a 1940 ford and he would come by and pick me up because i didn't have a car and and as a matter of fact my family didn't have a car at the time. And he would pick me up and he picked up two other friends all from North Fulton and we would drive downtown. And I remember we would stop and get a dollar's worth of gas and we would all pitch in and help. So that's how you got yourself to school? That's how we got to school. And home too? Yes, and then back home. Why did you not go into the architectural program since you had all this art leaning? It was a time when the Korean War was still going on, and it was very important to be in the ROTC program. That would help ensure that you would be outside of the draft. And so I wanted to be in the Air Force ROTC, naturally. And I was accepted for that. But then at the end of the first two years, the Air Force said, we don't need people unless their flight qualified. And because of my vision, they said, Cutter, you're out. So I had to go back and redo for the Army ROTC program what I'd missed the first two years. Because you won the Air Force ROTC. So I went back and I redid Army ROTC and I ended up in the Chemical Corps. And so I did, you know, six years worth of ROTC in four years, basically. Wow. And that inclined you to stay with engineering and then to go that's right and and and so the Air Force ROTC would not take people who were going to be architects because it was a five-year program not a four-year program and they wanted you but you have to go the fifth year yes but you still get a degree of BS degree at the end of four years yes but that was an extra year you weren't really interested in investing right but I I still I still knew that I wanted to be an industrial designer or a creative person of some sort. Yes, because if one looks at your life, you know, you can see where, well, it came to a four anyways, but that would have been an inclination of you. So I attribute my love of woodworking today as being, getting out my frustration for designing and building things and creativity. Who knew it was going to end up being that way. Tell me what it was like to you. Remember the ride to Georgia Tech, but what was it like? Were you prepared academically for Georgia Tech? It was a cakewalk, literally, the first year. A lot of people who came from less good schools, South Georgia, really struggled. They had a remedial program there. I must say that there was no such thing as an SAT or PSAT to get into tech. If you were alive and well and graduated. They had their own system for taking care of people. And if you weren't up to the academics, they said, that's okay, we'll give you remedial training. We'll try to help you. We'll try to help you. So I didn't have to take... With the tech version of help. A lot of people said I wasn't that helpful, but... Yeah. So did you have to do any remedial at all? No, I went straight in. So North Fulton had prepared you fairly well. Yes. Because you had the advantage. It was surprisingly easy the first couple of years. It got a little more difficult than the junior and senior year, but I think that was more social than it was academic. It got into the swing of things, could that be? Yes, I think that was what you call it. So initially, when you came, you were a commuter student those first couple years. Yes, and coordinating schedules was difficult because we had typically took 20 credit hours, which meant that you had in engineering school you would have a course like physics for example that met for an hour a day five days a week plus had a three-hour lab. You would take courses like English you know why would anyone who was going to be an engineer need to take English and that would be Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday at 8 a.m. so you'd have to get up early and get down. It was a lot of work, wasn't it? Yeah, it was. And there were gaps. You came in 1951. Yeah. And that was a time when we had some interesting characters around the campus. That's right. There was this guy named Freddie Lanoux. Yes. And he had a class called? Drownproofing. Uh-huh. Did you take that class? I did, and I got my senior life-saving badge from Freddie Lanoux. So he didn't scare the be-devil out of you like he did some folk? No, no, it was fortunate because having worked at a swimming pool, I felt very at ease in the water. And I really loved his program. And I don't think I've ever been as unmercifully driven and scolded and chided because you had to do things like with your hands tied behind your back, go down to the bottom of the pool in 10 feet of water and pick up a ring with your teeth and bring it back up for. Or swim with hands and feet tied behind your back. He had high expectations of his people. But you didn't resent him, you enjoyed it. No, no, and loved doing it. I still love to tell the story about, he said, you can either swim a mile or an hour with your clothes on, you can have your choice, but you have to do one or the other, and that was one of the hurdles. Why did you choose? I think I did the hour before I completed the mile. It would have taken you a little longer. Isn't that interesting? With your clothes on. Yes, with just a long sleeve shirt and long pants. Because he was conditioning people in the room for the real world. His idea was back from the military program and trying to teach Navy pilots how to survive when they had broken arms and broken legs and were struggling to survive in water. And more than likely they'd have clothes on and lots of times they could be in cooler water. so he was a very practical man listening. What he was teaching was practical. Some people were scared to death of him. If you hadn't been around water, if you were from South Georgia, you'd never even seen water. If you had zero body fat and had never been around the water, and he'd throw you in the pool, you'd go straight to the bottom. Pretty terrifying, I guess. Still a beloved character. Another one would have been Dean Griffin. Yes. Dean Griffin was a wonderful friend. And I think the time that he caught one of my fraternity brothers and gave him a second chance was a wonderful, loving, caring Dean Griffin story. And I won't tell you who that fraternity brother was. No, but you can tell me what he caught him doing. Stealing a quiz. Oh, the word. Getting the word, that's right. And how did he handle that? He did not send him home. me, I don't think he told his parents, he scared the Dickens out of him and said, don't do it again. And it worked. And he's gone on to be a very successful person, character building experience. It's amazing there could be so many stories about the same man and he'll never be the same. I've not heard that story before. But I sure have heard a lot of Dean Griffin's stories. And he must have been partial to you because he would have known of your grandfather. I think he knew my dad. And he knew of your grandfather. Yeah, because your grandfather wrote letters to him. That was the source of those articles, was your granddaddy writing. And I think he was helpful in getting my financial need scholarship my last two years there. He would certainly know the cutter name and would see a value in you beyond anyone else, maybe. So he was looking out for you then. You felt comfortable with him? I did. I did. He was just wonderful. I ended up being on the student trial board when I was a senior, and I thought that was quite an honor because we got to be the arbiters of discipline problems of students. It was indeed an honor. And I don't know that we reported directly to Dean Griffin in our deliberations, but he was very much there because the people that needed to be brought before the student trial board would be people that Dean Griffin would be very familiar with. Yeah, they would have been on his radar screen for sure. Yeah, he was overseeing that whole operation. You were very active in school. Probably you started right away because the first two years you said were not that challenging academically, you were managing art. So you put your fingers in some other pies. Yeah, fraternity life was big for me. I joined Phi Delta Theta. Not the ATO like your dad. Not the ATO, that's right. And I didn't name any of my children Howard Davis Cutter either. So you're just a rebel, aren't you? So I just was a mold breaker. But fraternity life was great, and I ended up working for the fraternity. I was what was called the table manager, which meant that I was the person that hired and fired all the wait people and the cooks and bottle washers in the kitchen. Oh, literally, you were talking the kitchen table or the dining room table. Yes, that's right. So you learned how to manage. It was kind of a treasurer-like job, but for the food and beverage part of the operation. That was really a good experience for management. Yeah, yeah, it was, it was. The hiring and firing. And as I recall, it either got me free meals or free board, free room at the fraternity house, one or the other. Either way, it was a good deal. Yeah, it was a good deal. And you did live in the fraternity for the last two years, though. Last two years lived in the fraternity house. Which gave you more opportunity. 734 Fowler Street. It gave you more opportunity to be on the campus than involved. It was like two different colleges. A day student is not quite the same as living on the campus. And you've been able to have both experiences, which is really cool. Yes, yeah, yeah. One of the things we know is that you've got your Yellow Jacket magazines bound together there because you were a cartoonist. That's right. I was the circulation manager for the Yellow Jacket. This, 54, was the last year that the Yellow Jacket was published. At that time. At that time. Have they re- No, it reinstated itself a few years later and got killed, usually for some very, very serious infraction of the rule. It had some wonderful literary skills, but its editorial judgment was sometimes suspect. That's right. And usually it was Dean Griffin that banished it, too. What was the reason that 54 was the last year? You know, I went back through to try and find the offending article, and it seemed to me they were all equally offensive. So it could have been for any one of the issues, but they had the grace of publishing and embossing. Isn't that fine? And what did a circulation manager do? We charged for the Yellow Jacket, so you took subscriptions and you delivered them. You fulfilled the subscription. you got together and hung out in the office where and where was it at that time was it in the old Y building yes as a matter of fact it was I knew they had done it for a long time there but I wasn't sure for the time frame so it was so it would give you a real social set that's right it was a social set and it also gave me an inside track on getting some lucrative and illustration work. And by that you mean you were paid to do cartoons for the advertising department. Yes, and paid to do original artwork for advertising copy for local merchants. And there was a different man, a tech man responsible for getting the advertisements. Yes. That wasn't your job. There was a sales department that went out and sold ads, and then they would bring it in and say, here it is, I've caught it, you scan it. Isn't that great? So you got some income, and you did this for how many years? Probably a year and a half. I think it was the last two years, but I'm not sure it was the full two years, but the 54, 55 time frame. Now, with your grandfather mechanical and your father civil, you chose industrial engineering, which was a relatively new discipline. I mean, I think it started, what, in 49 that Gross Close put together this idea of major industrial engineering. and you came with 51 so it was a very very early stage of the program looking back on it did you feel it was a really smart the right thing for you to do a little bit of this a little bit of that I I think so I think so because it was a smattering of all the engineering disciplines but it was not it was not heavy lifting in engineering like like double E would have been my youngest son was it was a double E graduate from Lehigh and I was always blown away by that that what what little double E experience I had made me really appreciate but it was it was it was something that was that appealed to me because I said I wanted to be an architect I set that aside I'd like to have a good engineering training but I'm not sure what I want to do at the the end. So it was pretty broad. It was kind of like the industrial management program was at the time for people who did not want to be engineers or techies, but wanted sort of a general management kind of education. It proved to be, of course, a brilliant thing to come to Georgia Tech because we're now the top industrial engineering school in the country. Yes. There's no doubt about that. That's right. And you were prescient enough to associate yourself with what would grow into a very prestigious school. And I had the good fortune of exiting tech at a time when demand for engineers was at an all-time high in 1955. Before we go to that year, tell me about, did you ever get involved in school dances? What was going on in the campus in the 54 and 55? All the social life was centered around the fraternity. It was a big deal to be a great thing. Yes, either weekend Again, parties at the fraternity or hayrides or barbecues out at a farm on the outskirts of town. What about the athletics? Football was really pretty successful at that time. It was the glory years for Tech. For Bobby Dodd. That's right, for Bobby Dodd and for all the Tech people. Some of my friends were varsity players on that 51 to 55 team and they are such small people compared to today's athletes you know they were 180 pounds they were superb they were we beat Georgia six years in a row from 50 to 55 we went to four bowl games my my years we we had wonderful teams and and and and a great a great environment for going to football well I've been told that the school spirit was probably at its very peak at that time that everybody cared and everybody was involved. Of course nothing succeeds like success. That's right. That's right. It had to be a pretty heavy experience to be there at that time. Yes. You were very fortunate because you had the best of times growing up and then you had the best of times for your college experience. Even though you were in your hometown, you were still having a uniquely campus oriented college experience. That's right. That's right. And I and I loved every minute of it. I bet you did. It flew by too fast. The inter-fraternity council was having big dances even in the 50s then? Yes, yes, but it seems to me that the things that were put on for tech students and by the administration and by an organization outside of the fraternities didn't ever seem to quite have the attraction that the social life centered around the fraternity had. So I recall little or nothing about going to anything other than football games and basketball games and fraternity parties. And studying, yeah. Because the workload was good. Yeah, they were never cutting anybody any slack. And plus you had mandatory ROTC, which you just explained to us you were in the whole time. That's right. So your Your days were pretty full, and your nights were pretty full too, but it was the best of times, wasn't it? It was a difficult time in the Atlanta area because we were going through the Brown versus Board of Education, the integration of public accommodations, Lester Maddox had the pick rick with a barrel full of baseball bats there, and women were being admitted to tech at that era so it was a it was a period of a good bit of controversy yeah community conference yeah yeah still you you were somewhat insulated well Georgia Tech never really got into it still doesn't really get into social movements or it's because everybody has too much to do that's right for the most part we've finally determined they're serious you have to be a serious student or you're no longer there you know it's as simple as that so your participation in the Yellow jacket and and student government things and kept you really busy several several honor societies engineering honor societies and management on on one of those summer jobs were a big deal for me I had good summer jobs all four years at Tech so with it the jobs were at Tech or the job of the jobs and the jobs are in the community and I come back to Tech so it was just a very vanilla you know, start in September, end in June, take three months off of the summer, come back and start over again. In and out in four years. One thing that was hanging over your head was the draft, of course, and that was a lot of pressure to succeed, so that if you fell out, you would be drafted. Now, initially, the Korean War was underway, and there were people from Tech that were going. And it ended in the early years at Tech, but I still had an obligation to go in the Army. Everybody did. It was usually two years that you were going to go in. And it was a difficult time because if you ******* up and dropped out, you would be snapped up instantly. That was the fear. That was the fear. So when you finally did get around to graduation. I was commissioned as second lieutenant in the chemical corps and was hired by IBM right out of college, but had to go to fulfill my military obligation six months after I joined IBM. Now, the recruiters from these schools knew that. That's right. They were interested enough in me that they said, we'll take you for six months. You can go off to the army for two years. We would hope you'll come back and we hope we get our hooks in you. So that was, and we'll give you military leave benefits while you're gone. Wow, what a deal. And continuous service as though you were still with IBM in terms of pension and those sorts of things. I want you to hold up this resume that you have here that book, which was very typical of the time. This is what you got when you graduated. This is what you put together to go through the interview cycle. Right. When you were going to look at interview IBM or interview GE or interview General Motors. How many did you collect? How many did you go to? I went to as many as I could until I discovered that every one that I went to resulted in a job offer. So I said, I don't have to worry about getting a job offer, I have to be selective. And what I was doing largely was interviewing engineering firms. And then somewhere along the line, IBM said, Cutter, you might think about being a salesperson because you're good on your feet and so on and so forth. And by the way, you might be able to make as much as $10,000 a year if you're really good at this. You said, I'll do best your thoughts. I said, I can do that. But first you did go out to the military. For six months, where did you go for your basic training? Went to Fort McClellan, Alabama. Okay, not far. That's right. Killed sheep with nerve gas. So you were doing chemical stuff. We were doing chemical and biological and radiological stuff at the time. It was supposed to be secret, and it may still be, but I suppose I'm out of harm's way on that. So that was supposed to last for two years. Yes, and because of the cuts in the defense budget, after six months they said, you can stay in for the remaining two years if you'd like, but we'll give you an option so that if you agree to serve active reserve for eight years, we'll let you out now. And so you can go back home, go back to work, and stay in the active reserve for seven and a half years. Which is a pretty good deal. That was a pretty good deal. Now, active reserve meant you would be a weekend warrior once the month you would go off? The interesting part about this was when I returned to IBM, they sent me to Miami, which is where I ended up spending my early days. And I called the reserve and I said, here I am, do with me what you will. and they said don't call us we'll call you we've got your name we don't have any any openings now so every year I would report in and I'd say I'm still here got any openings they say no keep in touch so that's how you so seven and a half years later I was discharged and never had to serve as if you had as no as though yes I got the credit for amazing and got an honorable discharge And that was the beginning, so after six months, you could begin your career. Yes. Mr. Cutter, now we know the Army sprang you early, and you came back to IBM, and they sent you down to Miami. You started to Florida. Yes. Was it Miami? Yes, that's right. It was Miami. And what did they have in mind for you? How did you begin your IBM career? I started in the field sales organization, which at the time was called the Electric Accounting Machine Division. Really? Because they did have an electric accounting machine? That's right, there were no computers, but we had electromechanical machines to sort and tabulate and calculate all based on punch cards and all based on mechanical machines. We had just started making computers in the, this is now 57, we had some special military And shortly thereafter, we introduced a line of really big, heavy, expensive computers. The kind that filled up a whole room. The kind that filled up a whole room. And I remember our management saying, you're going to be expected to sell one of these a year. And we said, oh, you can't imagine that there's enough demand out there for one salesman to sell one computer a year. Did the sales involve traveling then? Traveling was to Homestead, to the Naval Weapons Center, it was traveling to Fort Myers to see the bank. So the military was your big target then? Well, no, it was primarily commercial, but the travel was day trips around South Florida. Oh, so not so bad. No, no. Traveling to go to school, traveling to go to conventions, but otherwise not a lot of traveling in terms of territory coverage. So IBM was training you by teaching you about the equipment that you were going to go sell. That's right. We got a lot of really good education. When you joined IBM initially, you'd go to sort of a basic machine school. You learn about punch cards and sorting and tabulating and how to wire control panels to make the machines do the work. So it was really a very practical thing that you were well prepared for with your tech background. Yes, it was like programming before there was such a thing as a stored program computer. The program would be a series of pre-wired steps in a control panel that told the machine what to do. Was it a good fit for you? It was. It was really good. And it was something that was a good fit, not just from the intellectual challenge and the comradeship, but it was a good fit in terms of raising your focus on excellence of implementation, excellence of service, on doing things with a positive mental attitude and having... So that was the mantra of the company. That was the mantra of the company. The old story about IBM was that you had to wear white shirts and... And sincere ties and highly polished black wingtip shoes and the like. And there was a lot of truth to that. But there was an esprit de corps that, although I wasn't a Marine, I have a feeling it was kind of like being a Marine. And it was a very paternalistic organization. We had family dinners. The chairman of the company would come every year to visit, and you would have a big sit-down dinner with husbands and wives and be thanked for what you were doing. and by this time had you married yes i married uh a couple years after i moved to miami uh so you met a i met a i met a gal who had graduated from northwestern and had decided she wanted to teach school but wanted to do it in a fun location so she picked picked miami and came down with a friend who ultimately ended up moving away but mary lou stayed on and and we met uh and and married when And we were living in Miami. So did you marry down in Miami? The marriage was in Indiana, but we went back to her home. And then went back and settled in Miami? Went back and settled in Miami, lived in Carl Gables for the first year and then built the home down halfway between Carl Gables and Homestead down in the southwest part of town. And how many years did you stay in Miami? We were there almost eight years. That's a really long time. Yeah, it really is. Yeah, because usually you get transferred around more than that without you. Yeah, yeah. Where did they send you? I had hoped and prayed that I might get back to Atlanta. And sure enough, they offered me a job, a nice promotion to a job in Atlanta. So you did come back to Atlanta? And I came back to Atlanta, and that was 1965. And now we've moved out of the electromechanical era and we're into stored program computers. things like the 1401 and and the 1410 and the 360 and that era of machine so I had I had to learn new tricks and it was it was a wonderful time for recruiting because now I was in a management position and I was hiring people from Georgia Tech eight years after fulfilling the mission that your My grandfather had found it. Yes, indeed. Because those early guys, really, many of them wrote things down about United We Stand was one of the speeches I remember reading. All tech men will hire other tech men. Yes. Not even thinking at that time it would be tech women. And I hired tech women as well. And the dirty little secret about techies is that the women, by and large, were always outperforming the men. They had to. on the intellectual side of the job. It's just part of the social more you just had to. That's all there was to it. You had to be twice as good or you didn't survive. But IBM had a great ethic of hiring women because during the war, when most of the IBMers were in the army and overseas, they had to hire women. So they hired women to do basically technical sales assistance kind of jobs. And it went on forever, and there are many very successful women executives that... How many years did you stay in Atlanta? I was in Atlanta for almost eight years before I ran out my string. It's a funny story about that. Atlanta had become a magnet for IBM manufacturing and development sites. The big complex that's on Northside out by the river had just opened up there, and it was a manufacturing and development division headquarters for small systems. And I did everything I could to try and get myself ingratiated with those people, and they would have nothing of it because they were suspicious about Atlanta people. They thought that you might be motivated not to come to work for them because of their needs, but of your desire to stay in Atlanta. So, I ultimately ended up taking a job in a large systems manufacturing and development job in the Westchester County area in New York. And that's how you got up to the East Coast. Yeah, and I got up to the East Coast. And six months after I'd taken that job, lo and behold, the General Systems Division in Atlanta discovered me and my many talents and wanted me to come back to work for them at headquarters, the job that I had worked very hard for and had been never given a chance. And I said, nope, I'm sorry. I just brought my three children here. I have a nice home. I have a nice job. I'm going to try these for a while. I'm going to stay here. So I stayed there for another 20 years. Did you? That was your longest tour of days. That's right. But the good thing about being in headquarters is you could move from job to job to job without having to move your home or your family. And that is, of course, a huge benefit when you're raising children. This would be a good time for you to tell me about those children. You had three. Yes. The first one? Yes. The first one was Douglas Kirkwood Cutter, we call him Kirk. He was born and raised in Florida, is now living in Connecticut. He is a very, very talented guy and has lots of interest, and he has my photographic talent as well. He's my inspiration for photography. Is that what he does for a living? No, he's got a limousine service business. Okay. That supports his hobbies. supports his hobbies. Second child is Catherine Ann Cutter, married, name is now Rudge, R-U-D-G-E, lives in Boulder. She is a very talented gal, got two kids. She went to Boston University, got an undergraduate degree in business. I tried to talk her into going to work for IBM, you know getting a Brooks Brothers three-piece suit and she wanted to be a hydrologist and I said well you got to be a civil engineer before you can be a hydrologist I can do that so she went to the University of Colorado in Boulder got all the undergraduate engineering credits and then went on and got a master's degree in hydrology well she was a woman who knew what she wanted to do and that's right that's right yes and the third one the third one is is Jeffrey Howard Cutter. Funny story about Jeff. Jeff is the one that went to Lehigh, not Georgia Tech. In 1988 or 87, I guess it was, he wanted to go to Lehigh in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, which has a very good engineering school, and it was closer to home. But he was not accepted initially, so we were looking for backup schools, and Tech was one of the backup schools. And he was very reluctant to come here. He wanted to, he said, I'll go look at Georgia Tech if we can also go to New Orleans and look at Tulane, which was the second backup school. And I struck that deal with him. And he was okay with Tulane, but when we came to Atlanta, it was a beautiful spring day. And he met another similarly situated young man from the East for whom Tech was a backup up school as well. And we went on the campus tour and there was a beautiful young lady, junior, who led the tour. And I just stood back and watched and she just melted these two boys. Southern chimes. That's right. And when we were flying back to New York that evening, he said, Dad, I hate to tell you, but I think I like Tech and I think that's where I'd like to go to school. But he didn't. We got home and there was an acceptance from Lehi and he was very tormented and then he had to decide and and I said you you do what you want to do I was biting my tongue because Lehi was about three times as expensive even for out-of-state oh so the streak was broken that's right that's right could have been fourth generation but my brothers two of my two of my brother's children went to check David Cutter and Darren Cutter so So we still had cutters. So we had a fourth generation, but it wasn't in an unbroken line of succession. From you. Yes, from me. Because your brother, what you had said, meant to the neighborhood. Well, at least, I mean, your grandfather probably enjoyed that his great-grandsons went to Georgia Tech. Yes. And did your son, Jeffrey, thrive at Lehigh Acres? I mean, Lehigh Acres, Lehigh, I'm thinking of the Florida place. Yes, yes. Did he thrive? He did. Oh, he made a great decision. He loved being there and got a very good job out of there. He's now working on Wall Street for what was Solomon Smith Barney, now Citigroup. But he got there through the computer technology route, which is where he started. Sure, so it's still a good thing that he did it. Now, you mentioned that Catherine had two children. Yes. Those are your only grandchildren? And Jeff has three. Okay, so you have five grandchildren. Yes, I have five grandchildren. Maybe some of them can be cultivated. That's right. We'd like to see another generation. We don't know. It's very historical to have generation after generation come. Okay, so now let's go back to the career. You mentioned eight years one place, eight years another, and then 20 years. So if I had that together, that's 36 years. And I know, really, you had 37 years all together at IBM. So I rounded. You rounded it up, right. I was using my slide rule. Which is fine. Yes. But the interesting thing was, is you really just left that career for another career. At the time, you didn't know that, though, right? That's right. I did, as a matter of fact, because I said that maybe 10 years before I decided to retire, I said, I really love what I'm doing, I love the collegiality of the work, I love the challenge of the work, but there will come a time when either I won't want to do this anymore or IBM won't want me to do it anymore. So if I could do anything I wanted to do, what would that be? And I said, the thing that I love to do and the thing that I spend my spare time on is woodworking. And you had started that? And so I had started that some years before. Where did you work? In your basement or your garage? I had a really awful basement with concrete floor and no windows and a seven-foot ceiling and really bad electricity, no ventilation. And that was my shop. So I think I overcompensated when I built this in 93. Well, it's just an amazing studio. But you made it, you knew you were going to develop that hobby into a career. And so this was a very, very good plan to put together. Because what I feared was that it would never do for me to move to the west coast of Florida in a golf and bridge and country club community and vegetate. That wasn't going to work. So you started planning the studio. Did you design the building too? Yes, designed and built it and have been very pleased. It's a thousand square feet with a 10-foot ceiling and 200-amp service and heating and air conditioning and a beautiful view out over my neighbor's pastures, which is just really something that's very special every day. And natural light is so wonderful. And I suppose, I'm just going to guess that everything known to man and the way of woodworking tools are right here behind me, correct? If I don't have it, they don't make it. That's just about what I think there. But you turned it into a career because you do sell the things that you make. Yes, I reached a point where I could make more stuff than my children and friends and family could absorb. So I said I've got to keep moving. Which is an amazing thing because if you make a product, you also have to market that product. And of course, I think I'm going to guess that the internet has made that a lot easier for you. It has. It has. It's really a treat when you get unsolicited because I don't sell explicitly off my website. It's more of an institutional advertising website and word of mouth. But I get commissions from people through friends and neighbors and church and other organizations. Do most of your jobs come by prearranged or do you make things and have them available to sell? I do both. Since I've started woodturning, I've started making an inventory of turned objects. You mentioned that you go sometimes to church sales and things of that sort. So you take the bowls and things that are portable and smaller, and then advertise that you do bigger things. And I do shows at Starbucks. Starbucks is a great patron of the arts. They'll let you bring your work in and put it on display. Ah, so somebody sees it and sees your card, and they can call and ask. besides turning bowls you make furniture furniture is where I started and that you don't cart around anywhere no that's right that's where the website comes in I started by making beds for all of my children and for Mary Lou and me and I wish we had a chance to tour the house I could show you some of my stuff and perhaps we'll have a chance to do that later tables I made a rocking chair that I entered in a show in 1998, first show I'd ever entered. And that was just a few years ago. That's right. It was the annual Atlanta woodworking show sponsored by the Woodworkers Guild of Georgia. And I took my rocker out, and I thought it was pretty good, and I hoped that I might win some recognition. And I came back to pick it up on Sunday, and I had won a blue ribbon and the best of show. The best of show, which is pretty impressive. And you told me you were honestly surprised. I really was. You didn't know how rude it was then, huh? And nobody had called me to tell me, so when I went back, I looked, you know, I was walking across the room to go pick up my chair, and I said, no, I see a ribbon there. Oh, there are two ribbons there. How about that? What a nice way to be surprised. That's right. Yeah. And since then, people saw that, do you mind making the same chair over again? I would, because it took me an awful long time to do it, and I've set a price on it that is designed to keep anyone from I don't want to do this one again, so it costs a million dollars or something like that. So as a woodworker, an artist, because this is really art that you're producing, you like variety, you don't want to do the same thing over and over again. It's deadly if you had to do the same thing. I have a very good friend who's a woodturner who turns wine stoppers. And he can turn a wine stopper in a minute. And he sent kids to college turning wine stoppers. Isn't that amazing? But he gets a little sorry. But he also loves to have some time off to exercise the creative juices. He does a wonderful job in teaching and the like. Do you suppose that you, now the hobby that you have of photography, did that become your hobby so that once woodworking became your career? I had a long relationship with photography. When I moved back here in 1965, I took a night school course at the High Museum of Art to learn to develop my own black-and-white film and to print my own black-and-white prints, and to do black-and-white artistry, you know, of the Ansel Adams sort. Yeah, that's amazing. I don't mean to convey that I was ever in that category, but that's the sort of art of nature that I admire. yeah and so i did that and i i ended up getting hooked and i built my own dark room in my basement in sandy springs and now we have a chance to see we have one here that's right this but this was a real dark room this was a wet sink you know seven foot long wet sink and and a wonderful uh enlarger and printer and the like and just at the time i was getting good at it i got the promotion to move to connecticut i packed all that equipment up took it and put in my basement and after a year I said this isn't going to work because I don't have any time there's no room and no time so I came back to it that's right now with now with digital SLR camera technology and and wonderful inkjet printers and and with things like Photoshop for manipulating you can really do wonderful things. Do you sell your photography? Yes. So it has become more than just a hobby and it's a career too. Yeah. Tell me your website if somebody wanted to. It's www.turnstoo.com. This is that I started as a furniture maker but then I migrated into woodturning so it's sort of like he turns too. It's a double entendre. Yeah, it's a very nice one, too. Now, one of the things that gave you a boost, your work a boost, was getting on national television. Tell me about that. How did that come about? Well, I had a producer from the House and Garden Television Network, the DIY Network, the Scripps Howard group that does all of the food and fine living and those kinds of programs. and i never asked him how he found out about me but he sent me an email and he said i'm looking for it for a nice workshop to use as a set for some productions i'm doing do you know of anyone who has a nice workshop going around the horn that's right i said as a matter of fact i do come and take a look at it and uh and he flew out here and he came and looked at it and we struck a deal and he came and produced two or three days' worth of material where they bring talent in to do the introduction and the closing scenes for shots that are taken elsewhere. So it makes the production look like it's a seamless thing with the same talent introducing and closing up each one of the individual artists who were shot primarily in their own setting. So they did that. So yours was the backdrop, the beginning and end. So that was a backdrop. And while he was here, he said, hey, your stuff is pretty good, too. I think we'll do something with you. So a year or so later, they came back and did one. And I was interviewed, not for my workshop, but for my work. Which is a whole different thing. Which is a whole different thing. So I got my two minutes of fame on the DIY network. And it's one of those networks that recycles those shows. So you could be on forever. about every three months it'll come back forever really isn't that interesting each time you get a whole new audience yes yes and the hits on the website go up exponentially when that show airs and that's the beauty of the internet is that you know that print advertising you know is printed in everyone sees it and then it's ****o goodbye it's gone whereas the internet keeps coming back around that site you have out there comes back around and around. So it makes it very interesting for you. You can actually run a business. And I have to give credit to my son, Jeff, who is now the investment banker, but was the techie who made my website for me. Oh, did he? Oh, good. Good. So it's a family up there, so to speak. So nobody lives here. Everybody lives somewhere else. No. Connecticut, New Jersey, and Colorado. Yeah. Pretty far flung. There was a time when my daughter in Colorado said, when I was thinking about retiring and moving somewhere. She said, why don't you come here? And I thought about it, but I decided differently. And no sooner had we moved to Alpharetta than she and her husband moved from Colorado to San Diego. Oh, well, that would have been great. I said, maybe chasing your children around the country is not a good idea. In your case, definitely not. Yeah, the weather is a lot punkier in Colorado than it is here as far as... But when I decided to to retire i knew i wanted to sell my home in connecticut to take some money out of it to build my workshop and i wasn't sure where i'd do that so we ended up looking up and down the east coast and this looks perfect well it is we've got eight acres and plenty of room and and at the time my mother was still alive and so and my brother and his family live here so they were and a lot of my lifelong friends from high school and college are still here even grade school yes you're not that far from Atlanta. That's right. I think, what is it, 37 miles, 40 miles, something like that. So not far. You can always be in touch with your roots, so to speak, and yet still have the joys of country living out here. Seems pretty idyllic to me. It's just another nice piece of that puzzle. It works for me. It works for me too. We hope you're going to show us, and we will put this on the end of the tape, some of the objects that you've made. You want to look at some of your objects and such. You've had a pretty charmed life. It's worked pretty well. I had a bout of prostate cancer diagnosed this time last year. So there's clouds occasionally. There are occasional clouds, but I had a good urologist and good radiation oncologist, and three months after I finished my treatment, my PSA was back down to 0.2, and all the men in the audience will know that it doesn't get much better than that. Well, even the women, because I know my daddy had that, so even I'm familiar with that. So it was just a cloud, really, on the horizon, but thank goodness you live in a place where you can quickly get the right attention for it and everything. Yes. Because it's just, this has got no end to it. This is just a fabulous space, and I'm in awe of all the machinery. And I'm also in awe of the fact it's so clean. How much do you have to affect cleaning this? Well, that's the sign of a bad mental attitude. If it's too clean, you know, you're not... It's just clean. I can see dust and I can see sawdust, but it's still pretty clean. For a workshop that's probably, if we weren't here taking up your time, something would be running and you'd be going to town here. Well I think part of the thing that helps is I've got a wonderful central dust collection system. And any woodworkers that are out there listening, a lot of wood that you work with is very toxic. It's best if you do something like that. So it's best if you have something to keep the atmosphere clean. So you put that on and it blocks everything? It takes the dust away from the machine, but depending on what sort of wood you're working with, it would also be good to wear a respirator so that you aren't breathing fine sodas. How many hours a day do you spend doing this, or is this strictly not fixed? It's not fixed. I have a daily routine of going and working out for a couple hours in the morning, getting a cup of coffee, reading the New York Times or the Washington Post or the Wall Street Journal, and then come and start working here at 10, 30, 11 o'clock in the morning and working through to dinner time. So that's sort of the schedule that I like to get. It's like having a job then. You do put a lot of hours in. The difference is you have flexibility of hours. You don't have to punch a clock at 8 o'clock or something. You can come here when you feel like it. According to what the pressure is on you to produce. If somebody commissions the work, do you give them like months out? Yes, yes. So it's not turning on a dime. No, no. Starting on what you're willing to put the effort up for. That's right. Sounds good to me, Howard Cutter. It sounds really good to me. You're your own boss. I appreciate you coming here. You're your own boss. That's right. This is really a great life. Well, we appreciate you letting us come here and delve into your history, your family history, your past, and your present. Equally interesting. For Georgia Tech, we're so delighted that we'll finally have pictures of Howard Cutter, HD. He never called himself Howard Cutter. That's right. HD Cutter. Because he preceded the blueprints, the actual written documentary for Georgia Tech, this is a huge thing to be able to have. Well, I love the mystery of all of this occurring with my 50th reunion coming up. I do too. It's kind of cool. And the 1942 documentary that my grandfather did when he wrote to the alumni magazine and put it together. 50 years has gone from the written word to video commentaries on 50 years and first-hand accounts of the experience of it. And interestingly enough, it doesn't matter how many people I interview from a class, everybody's going to talk about something different. I mean, everybody might mention George Griffin or Freddie Liu, but everyone's going to have a different story about them so that we can incorporate it and never really duplicate anything and still get the flavor of what it was like to be there at that time. It's all where you stand on the platform and how you see it, right? It's all where you stand. Well, thank you so much for sharing with us today your position on the platform. We've enjoyed looking back and looking forward with you. And now we want to see some of this work. I salute you for your good work. Thank you, sir. It's been a pleasure.