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>> This is a living history interview with Erling Grove and Jane junior class of 1944 and faculty at Georgia Tech from 1948 to 98 conducted by Marilyn summers and for the 14th the year 2006 we're at his home in Atlanta Georgia and the subject of the interview today is life in general his experiences at Georgia Tech Dr Grove and see how nice to see you again and to be here with us today thanks for giving me some of your time good to have you here now I'd like to know where your story began when I was born I was born in Miami Florida I think my father once took his bride I have to get away for grad follow it all for a good offer the lot next to his house he didn't want to live there tell me tell me what your you were born in November 12th not 224 Ok so your daddy in Ted just moved down there with your mama no he had been working all day when I'm writing my mother and then but when it was time for him but when he got married he went to Florida what was he doing down in Miami relatives he was and brother but that was the time of the Florida boom and bust Wow he had the right occupation for the right but also went through the bust He did yeah and that came before the Great Depression Yes.

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Well you the 1st born know how an older system the younger sister you were the only boy was only bought right and your dad was making a living as a realtor and then you need your momma hold a job or did you mean my mother had been a schoolteacher in Albany which my mouth off for she women gave up work when they got married I was your subject after the course right now was your father born in Albany so you know it was he was born in f. and him County whereas the county right above Chatham County is Savannah so it's Nassau the Serb rep of Savannah that county you know realities her well his job and him candy was a very agricultural cattle His father was a farmer but had been had worked for the railroad before he retired from that job.

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And your dad was in the right arm or well no he didn't want to be but it was his hobby so yes feel for the dirt but or or I do not feel like I live in fear so you know when he was pretty ambitious for the time he went with the job he knew he Mom and in history and so she gave up her family to go down to right was really considered a pretty radical place you know there's a very small town at that time and he was really way way way for very much.

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Anything right but of course Miami is really not that hot it's a plus to the sea coast get ocean breeze it's not like a land-O. that suffocating the humidity how long did you live there well I think they moved that when I was about 3 and a half years so do you have any memory of it is not not very dead depair a vague memory so I think I made my rotten problem where they moved but they moved to my father got in the farm and vowed it didn't take both a log with exposed to Brill as that was not satisfactory so they moved to Albany Back question Ok Back home I would trade if you persevere he worked for Swift and Company for labs a couple near regular therapy and right arm just right in private so when you were ready to start school you were living you know right you have all been in high school you were at least a half sure that he where did you go to elementary school in Albany Georgia and you remember the school that well you had Munroe Street School the 1st 3 years and Mackintosh to the next 4 years than Albany High School.

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Education was an album a lot where you could do well out of the student on the High Scope But let me tell you that I think the reason I'm off. Your mother was training your home. I think some people are going to say what did you always know you're going to go to college but you always knew you.

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Your mother made sure of that properly. As a college woman herself you value what right you did your she same way about your sisters going to college they yeah right my oldest sister was not a good student so she went to Jesse w. but she didn't really like it so she would be kind of trying or she wouldn't a nursing school while I was at Georgia Tech but my youngest sister graduate from I discuss with your mother insist that they get it right she is a wise woman so here you are down in agony going to go to school or enjoying it or think you are in room never know of any Instead Yes I studied piano.

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Music right I watched the piano hit educate my brain really sure to concentrate better in part so you took privately yes like no but she probably wanted to she said All right you said well my father said he thought it would be a farm if I moved out into the suburbs from Albany to the country where he had a very small backyard Fabia and who Yeah but it separated me from my place nice not we lived at grandmother's house after we moved from bad to Albany Chad bakehouse and me and which I enjoyed to live in the whole lot of my friends that we moved into the country that were no children to play with on assistance.

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I know right there and start practicing Pierre with that but it makes me have wondered why credit had to do it had to do something. Like play with bus systems but that's a little to that there is a limit. So you have here yes he was very fortunate and you probably made a pretty good living there rotten and when the contra mob mother drove us to school it would not surprise us really really right well there's so much segregation this is segregation from the cotton mill they will Blue Ginger You know they're yellow.

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The priorities are all right you and I why you went up you were good her own class you can hear those people speaking. She wanted to make sure you had a right right from a very proud family she good mom I want one if only definitely She colored a life to us she really grilling me and the soccer mom of her day does everything right right and you know what got no typically us so I don't know by now but even allow this other school not have real strong high school program Ok but I was fostered I have some very good teachers and up in high school you define what a good Latin teacher she is what my favorite teacher studied Latin for you.

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But the school usually ended at 11 I know and I had trouble taking I discovered that when I was a senior in the middle class and you know that to get into Georgia Tech night physics. You didn't have that 4th year to be you and a 50 it would have taken so but the physics teacher a very nice Miss Callahan trick she let me start typing physics and let's go here is that she it's nice you remember her name your credit bureau.

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Bless her heart for times of the time Europe. Teacher And I think that was very nice for me to learn to study a subject on my own it was good preparation for college you just over she thought so too but as it were for me in class and your mother probably supported that too well I have no knowledge in pertain but I don't know about Faith.

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But she made sure that you began your garage Absolutely Where did you start figuring out what college you were going to go to sleep well talking my friends in a haunted house go to a statistic in particular and he eventually went to type but didn't do very well but for 10 was it was a common thing for people to come home I saw really convince me to go Georgia Tech you heard good things about how would you choose and chemistry why this is Ok I mainly because I had an uncle who my father's mother was so fond of he went to Georgia to Stafford Grove and sting.

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He studied games John thank you did quite graduate had to get a job and which was. Absolutely. Yes So but he went you know like 3 and a half 4 years I think you thought it was a co-op student I'm not sure it was a formal arrangement. So at the time wanting to go to Georgia Tech in those days if you were living in itself would you write a letter Well we had to leave Yeah you had to get letters recommendation from Moscow but I was sent for yog right so that's no problem with that and had you ever been No I'd only been to Atlanta on the Red Road Rodan through to visit my aunt in Dolphin George you know you don't never even visited this we thought of Atlanta's than off and then all right I'll go off the top of.

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Her Wow So here that's going to be a pretty big adventure for a hobbit I should tell you my family had been from Georgia both sides of the family been Joe descent 08 at least since 1000 $900.00 so they were well if they were right and. We have books of family history you know genealogy books are you writing I was asked while both sides of the fire was a proud family and you know they're growing stings will help spur.

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Now how would you get to school in a time like that did you go on a train. Or bus to the bus the Trailways bus but most of the way I did route the train no that wasn't as convenient as a bus and those I went back to the very 1st time you came here which would have been 194041 I must have gotten a taxi cab from the bus station since I had no idea he received came back time by myself a little but your bag we had shipped this suitcase by rebel express I think it was already at the room I'm to remember it had a grimace I didn't send you a letter of acceptance Yes rotten and then.

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I think I already had a room assignment I don't curse on so the taxi cab carried me to the door of the doctor and there you are and I have often to have. One and so there you are going to start a new adventure and you chose chemistry because you were home but I didn't know the different chemistry and chemical engineering I think clinical staff it was Georgia Tech that was there was all in one department and there's no distinction I'm ready to hear you know quite a lot of people and that's not a no distinction I think what I'm talking I think the separation was in the night 130 years of the public right around the late.

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In Europe wide in Germany that they didn't have chemical engineers I don't think they still do that had chemists and they had mechanical electorate engineers who did only on that right there was a combination that did chemical engineer. Work. 41 was. Yes right here in the fall he goes on to Rumi Rod Aha had a very very nice room I Geraldine lovely Jewish boy from New York City and I mean really we've got money so we kind of but he didn't really lived in a big right he had been to 12 great you know so he was a much better educated than I was and he has cousin who apparently didn't know it's going to take but when Jerry went to fight the cause and I had Greenberg to go Ok a lot of that would been room I think with a serious well Jerry was fought Nance he got.

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You know tech at that time had noncredit courses Well I was done well to put in the regular courses but a lot of tech boys had noncredit in Greece and on credit math just because the ball next domo sort of his mother's a friend my hand involved and had went into tech in the summer school because daughter could and so me so you didn't have a little bit of a very good good I think you had to just write and then you had to study and it probably was an advantage that you had somebody where.

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It's based at least yes my room I did and his cousin helped me the most difficult course I had as a freshman was engineering Droit kid to believe yeah I can believe that I would be if the people loved it or the right well it was all a matter of technique and they had no experience of all and I had thought about being a doctor but the thought of family to trim of the hand I never did for my mother and I knew that I couldn't you know you can see in the writing that the hankering was I could never be a doctor so it's very hard to do engineering drawings.

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Were so strict very strict. So faddish about it that's why my friend ice the test didn't graduate because he had I had a slight tremor he had terrible trim of his hands and I was an impossible filmmaker Michael Lecter the courage during drawing Yes I think because every freshman had to type Yeah yeah I was like Ok.

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And my draw on teach you spoke English with an accent I could really not understand half what's it's from Russia think really a my heart writes Was this a freshman everybody had take it so nobody in this in his department wanted it so they gave freshman to the people to just the right.

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Low totem pole and I couldn't understand him but I got from my room and his cousin. The facts about it you get exactly what the dotted Labadee Well I could understand it. But I could understand what does that really was like you are right I could understand that you could not have or you were half the words to describe it and you know some attainable course it does absolutely to be a good song rush guys were onto it they could transfer right where every pay was right what they had had that they didn't have to take it heads and high school so they knew right so they had explained to me what was going on that's a very I have.

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Learned How about a mentor that was a very nice doctor I think techs newest ometer. Room $101.00 right down right at the end of the hall. Have anybody living in the right definitely we had dominant or in fact. Well I don't remember the 1st one I had although he was very nice but he inspected this is our call it 8 o'clock and 11 o'clock at night sure when the room we we could not even go out on Saturday night with permission from Professor folk yes you had to get permission to.

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Yes they looked at that looked after they went post about pirates in loco parentis So they took it very seriously so I had a inspection there and the room didn't make sure you were clean or no no just to make sure it was that was what we didn't have to clean rooms we had many triggers I guess not I started this year yes they had made so or so these blacks were happy to get a nice job at Georgia Tech during the Depression.

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I mean they were the blacks the very prop or so they were hired to commute and they claimed the room made up the beds going to room so we didn't have to make you know no Ok so let me put on the in the top. Yeah I'm fine with that in my face and I do not bring Did you bring your own money is not no don't touch and I'm clean and did you have a communal shower that had a big you know bathroom into the hall from before the hall about on the 1st floor not their big Dom about the 1st floor.

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Yes yes yes you have to remember exactly how very nice you take to I mean I'm a lark to you like I let out a lot you had to get used to a room and I had a room at home and I wanted home because that's a big adjustment you know I mean you're hanging on by my windows days I can go to sleep and you turn out a lot to get much all right so it turns out after a few months well and you've got your handler translation problems you know.

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When doing that you couldn't do music you know couldn't really miss It'll be right but we are so busy we have a great. Georgia Tech professors gave assignments and that took up the homework now we've thought maybe they didn't grade them but we didn't know because of political change at the top of the page and made of the check in the notebook I'm sure that did that with a really serious and inspect not I don't know if the idea was that it got your d.n.a. But even when I was it in.

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Taking my knitting chemical engineering took this thing as you know it operations did you know that they took up the homework I have to know but can you really can you blame it right absolutely it was a requirement and family Georgia Tech one thing that's so interesting to me is that you were just 16 years old right.

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I mean in fact when you started you said you turned 60 no I was 16 was thought turned so. Empting After got there you did you know grammar exactly what you were 16 years ago. Yeah many of them were especially my room I was certain it will you something over right right right very much more sophisticated so well it's just it emotionally.

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1617 year old I mean well I had a cousin well a Phillips who was going to Georgia Tech. Here and he helped me a little bit I had to go and I had a cousin Duncan as it was a co-op and he explained to me you had to work real hard drug did you have to work right I got the word.

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With some of the organizations. Well you're pledged in the for turn to well Phillips paternity Yes you went to the rushes Yes I did that and that that hipped a whole lot to me you know I don't even remember I didn't join it because of the war started everything changed everything changed tell me where you were everything I was in that was Sunday I went to church with my fraternity brothers and we heard a little bit about it but when I got to make up last Sunday after Georgia Tech you know that may give me a different yes.

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I mean it was the tech professors were by when they were yes yes yes we had a backup last well they had a flop half of the freshman student but I think there were quite right. So we're behind of course so you go to the lab and we heard there right on the radio right so they pray for you right that they had it ready and we heard about it was discussed right the Sunday afternoon where everybody knew damn right that life would be different right here and 1st didn't make a big change for the 1st but then some but then after the 1st some semester then yes semester I bust on dropping it just slowly so that maybe there was a god that very slowly rightly some of my oldest some I'm already 18 what is very worrying about you know it was.

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Actually Exactly and they didn't let go to take the charge dog detect threatened I very existence Well you know as a professor I had students cry. We were so hard on. Her Like giving away what football players I don't want to be put up to cry now for some reason talk about.

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Yes that would have to wear red Yes Yes So you've got a doctor here all these rules right I knew better not to buck the system well I said dad had to cut pretty cut look horrible so you really did get the wording right I was not right I absolutely would not buck the system but you did not join the security that was because the war came along and my father was the new My sister and he's in college and my younger sister is going to go on to college and I thought that why haven't I had spent I'm not actually.

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I thought it would be I'm not actually sure it would been but I don't know what it would work or probably probably and I thought so right so that it was a decision you made exactly did you go home for the 1st course I went home Thanksgiving and Christmas right when and again sometimes the bus sometimes the train Yes but most of the bus on one time I took to trying to find that it was not it bad for you know it.

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Doesn't but it must've taken among the trains. Not any faster than the bus really I don't think it was met with rotten messages so there was never a question for you about dropping out. And it went. Right after I slowed it down and after the holiday when you came back after December 7th holidays and everything then gradually you start to see things change right now were you when the r.t.c. program yes I took coastal Arctic coastal Taylor It was called so that would be one day a week that you.

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Thanks I had classes at least 2 days that week and then we had drill on Monday or Wednesday which is where you know I'm not sure fact I bet the Classico 3 days a week I can't believe we were not the elder classes for 3 days. Yeah me and plus plus grill I'll let you were drill you had to wear uniform Yes but did you gradually see other people being in uniforms all the time.

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It really didn't things went on I went through the sama I spent the summer in tech what Dhamma direct talk about that that was a big significant thing in that school became year round because of the war right we went to school with school in the summer option or was it just expected you well well we thought they wanted way to you know just keep on going to school with so that your parents didn't want you coming home to work right right.

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Right and so when you so lost my friend stayed on the screw it was he had gone to Notre So that 1st summer in Texas would dominate her turbot place of on the top small concrete roof the hottest I have ever been measurable but it was one of the newer plays no no but yeah it wasn't by LHO but it was not designed for some I live and the other dogs I just lead a group with the think you know what they have done it can imagine I think it stayed hot day and night.

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But you by this time you know young people the temperature down Yeah well you do a lot of complaining about writing Joe I complain about me but nobody was listening to you take to the Piper honey. But nobody listened to you play it well if I have to look they're interested let's look at now we're in review let's just look at your 1st year there you know what professors do you remember well Munroe spices he body chemistry professor math like up semester he's very very good he later became Department jamma with his excellent professor the right back to rise way he cried Ok And when I graduate from freshman year in that some a.

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Mr Daniel was the chairman of the department used to spice. Follow the law really really right and Mr Daniel insisted that I take analytical chemistry before qualitative analysis and on the other way around the reason was his claim that was not enough room in the laboratory or a laboratory to work for you I didn't like it because I got out of sync with all my friends you know.

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And it was more difficult and Mr Daniels method of teaching was completely different from the freshman teaches back is completely different from any other teaches I had at Georgia Tech he graduated back by grief in the universe Virginia and he thought that we would study on our own he did not give us I had homework it physics and math we're still trying to get the homework missed and I knew I had no homework Assad's you don't add to be the problem look all I could to you know were it felt like it fresh but chemistry they want that different because I have so many mo all of them and he gave pop quizzes he didn't give us I never had a sign was this was apparently to make sure you studied but we did know what to study.

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Since he didn't give deaf the stops in physics and math that would just preciseness I worked as I'd probably. Make sure he did live in his class that no such thing so he was taken away on Dr Raj. Didn't know how to react to it so I did not do very well I managed to make up be but I thought what if I can hear how but I feel I don't know but that would be a terrible failing back in their shock.

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Just imagine it to a kid today would be thrilled. If it was part of the growing up experience for you. Right. Here on the campus in 94142 that period of time we had a real characters around there yes he was one although he was one. And I found out later that you know they call him post.

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The students did discuss the smile the wrinkles in his face looked like wickets like it was kept in check your chest when he grabbed me actually a very very nice man but we had no idea. He did it very well he very sweet How about for the love you run into him well he had the swimming classes but we didn't have to I mean I swam the swimming pool that's just would see him but not only for what I don't want to spoil no if you took r t c You did not really write are you suggesting because the drop in was designed for those that were going to go into the military you know that was that the Twitter program that he was.

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Writing that you're for the Navy if you say you were there at the early time of Iraq your research is Spearman station with you you've got guinea pig I mean I mean you were not one I was not one of them so you didn't get to know him very well no he certainly became a legend in the right I'm sure he frightened a lot of good to speak well I thought they had compulsory swim and I just got to my sister and I was a clash and if I.

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Did not get their diploma because they couldn't. Well I frankly think I could totally. Or just just you know I would I had to I was on your i knew how to swim it's the sort of thing a lot of people to do I mean to go through 4 or 5 years it's good not to get your degree over swimming on the water is frightening to some people really but I always love swimming so that was no Shorty We're told it's your own this is yes he was and he taught me in physics he's a very pleasant personality I heard the new classes were going to challenge.

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Well that's the one that he raised and wrote at the same time. Different Well thank students seem to think that physics was hard I didn't think was very hard and it was very it was very structured and I mean exactly I do exactly what the quiz questions were going but you know it was a.

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Hot and I found I'll tell I'm using Did you I mean there was it I know people right now today I don't know if they say that because they went you know they did to this year and what about some of the other professors that were there at that time did you have a handle on everybody that it was pretty comfortable for you.

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Had missed the folk were freshman English I think a little hard to actually enter should know I find it harder than math you know to write well they're right you're right to write well it's not easy did you ever come across Brown Raney Yes I had him off well you're very nice to him was an in your honor and.

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I liked it very much I like Mr Polk too I wrote a term paper all socialist on. With your folks yes we had to write a term paper in this he said well he criticized it I had to rewrite it I was too taken in by what you knew peals of socialist know it sounds like Applied Christian and he.

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Said wake up with him. Or read a book in the tech lab or by George Bernard Shaw on a woman's introduction to socialism this what I got and he wrote her convention in place socialism and then he objected to winning with socialistic to complain to the lefties a tax collector for the queen you'd.

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Careful what you write. About Mrs Conklin because yes. We are not like you going to write well now she was one that spoke to freshman and she explained to the freshmen that we should pronounce in law for a very not a lot Barry. Is not a whore she does not like to have time to correct like in all the nay we have been taught that Albany not all in the top 5 in public school which she was somebody who would take it right what she freshman orientation she spoke and she spline time use the library and when she explained how to print outs.

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Every numbers. Right was quite strong she was right she was very strong and of her time when good is rather tractor I thought I heard my marriage was always very well yes and I heard the stories for you from different people. And there was no doubt she was a strong willed upright so I had a very pleasant relationship in your student time did you ever encounter.

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No no no no I did not personally but not dom turns back to my 2nd semester for a few years Kirk Nesbit he I think had been. Student somehow I'm not sure what he's president. And he's a nice change to use a Presbyterian my mother's name was Nesbit's on naturally got to know him rather well.

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Perhaps a very very distant relative but spell the name with one t. rather than 2 days is. The Ghost in s. but used to tease. His fun it was a pleasant time for you even though the war had been declared Well it got less pleasant cos you're friends with us and I'll drop in Abscam actually and pretty soon I was just very few civilians most of them.

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Sent by the army so I got sick at my fall quarter of my sophomore year. I fainted on the steps of the physics building very dramatic right but that's right next door to the infirmary and my classmates I don't know who they were helping to the fabric. Right next door you know we were your Wasn't God it was only about 10 feet away from the steps or HIV virus pneumonia I had to drop outs go the tech knocked that they had nothing to treat a virus you know they were very friendly they wouldn't let me get out of bed for a week to do this and yeah venture the actress and I think that is take hospital about 2 weeks maybe 3 yes that's no treatment just big wrist that would not the nurses would not let me get out of bed.

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And when I got out and a collapsed so weak you know they don't believe in things like that anymore they think that they want even if you have every day exactly before but operations I guess they had that. Right and so I got asked think with me and my classmates and and.

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Right and at that time they all made a s.t.p. program came and my roommates had signed up in that they were promised that they graduate from Georgia Tech and they were mysterious. I was going to say the same I thought it was almost certain that you're right he didn't do it right I'm sure he was misinformed to where he thought that was the case and all those students about my room Bill Bonde.

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Away when I got back he was no longer viable so I add in a big hurry and you didn't even get a chance a lot of gas has just slammed up for that ride I didn't see him till after the World walked in. I didn't disappoint forget it was a football player everybody talked about it that's when Cochran Castleberry he was there when you were there.

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He was shot then I think when I asked a freshman he was a freshman right. Yeah. I guess we took that Landis' because I remember seeing newspaper that had that in it he was a school think I don't think so I think he must've just graduated a year or 2 before now not even 2 graduated all he had was one of the ones who read left and when you can't imagine you're Ok immediately right so very early late school principal When you're probably.

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The one of of quality to hear shot then perhaps all the spring which yeah we started to talk about the teams football games did you go to this about yes right I was a part of the team 1st yes that was just standard to go well it was a nice relaxation others say we're almost required to study you see the class on Saturday yes I had the morning Sunday to write we didn't have classes exactly and we were I mean Cup tender 6 classes were absolutely compulsory the professors took the role pretty absences that one excuse you got enough offense and 3 offenses you would spell from Screw that was very serious or you had a lot of pressure on you so we they really looked after us you see they left nothing to chance and I should tell you that went in to take that Dean feel to explain to the freshman that you look around.

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One in front of one sign only one of the 4 of you are going to graduate this is right yes yes that's right and just to death so he was that he was is a Dean going to freshman year then to freshman I think he was yes God This credited with having the 1st framing Rakim example for.

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Audience Smith. And Dr Perry who I think she had an apartment road inside the ancient cartoon you know yes Mrs another legendary absolutely new or have you I mean yes I did I had him for differential equations mussing India and did you find him you know. He was very amusing and his class was not too hard for me but he was a friend to football players and they were terrible pluck at so he probably made it easier than he should.

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I thought it was an extraordinary teacher for those who didn't get it yes it right could simplify and make people understand me I hope so classes were you know I was told you know designed to help people understand well he was sort of amusing I thought he had been in show business I believe so I'll take a blind eye to it find the students would complain that he didn't give partial credit you know if you said $2000.03 he'd got a 0 on that question so he explained well this is a 10 foot question I 30 give partial credit he covered up the one.

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Did I was right that he had a bunny rabbit club even for these yes thing yes I think this class had a bunny rabbit club that mean that if you drew a bunny rabbit out of your pipe that you were failing. Nobody. Was hurt and it was my goodness you must have been funding their office and I think there for a very long right you were asked 1st couple of years there is a part of this job meant that you and I did not type shot but if you are how did you know well that wasn't required we had like chemistry lab instead see that was called mechanical and electrical engineers and does it all took that shot so you didn't have to take it you didn't need it.

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Or no I cannae cause I write so I'm use but you're looking at a long beard and so are you did or were you couldn't help but see I'm right camp is one that being just to the hilt more or less the Hillary Clinton have any class not of one right person he was a very strict prime woodworker.

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I did have Dr Perry who's the head of the English department you ever heard of him yes yes he he had the class room on top of Dean's Giles' office is a very big classroom the biggest in that building up thanks he arranged all the chance in a circle.

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Well we could talk to one another and write a different kind of absolutely but that was a class I got sick and so I you know after about 3 or 4 we tried to not write ups are about that you're right but you were so for you the whole experience was because there was an hour right people coming and going you know I have to know more disjointed.

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By you told me when I talked earlier that you didn't qualify for them that's correct and it's because of your illness Yeah not not that one but knocked an obvious thought I had a stomach do Deano else because she's right I don't know but they just wouldn't let me not accept me they're not right and you were not under threat of having to ship out.

[00:39:21]
People that knew you could finish what you were doing well I didn't know that until I went to Fort McPherson and those doctors rejected me so you never knew who you actually did yet wrote right right. Did you in live you know I got a graph notice when I turned 18 Robert Right right and when I went to Fort my personal favorite body else I think I'd go to Albany and drop back on a bus to put my person so we had to leave from Albany and then they just right when they examine my read about correcting person.

[00:39:57]
May disappoint in ways yes and ways no you know double you could see what you wanted right right. And you were going through very wrong and that may have contributed asked a lot of a lot of false attentions you know I'm right but the bill to go to the Bill Terry and take with the rigors you had to study I mean we it was a full time job in student.

[00:40:22]
Council all the Assad said we had full time. That was great. Was the mentality that was right we think people in line right let's not have friends like you have to worry but you'd be into reality if you had so much to do where you're on absolutely perfect the pressure because you couldn't look out you let your moment down I was exactly right let my parents Dad who was at the front focus and just kids just go they would make the roof fall the focus follow my learned later on you know making sacrifices all right.

[00:40:55]
You know yeah I mean that would have been a more defined think absolutely right and the current economy. Yes So you were under lots of pressure from Georgia Tech and you felt it from home about really and you know I just never stated. Just did your parents expect.

[00:41:15]
They let me focus on my studies which is wonderful Well when I was sick. And finally recovered and went home and stopped being scouted and think I should stay in school I did work in j.c. Penney's for the Christmas holidays the only other job ever had and I found out how difficult of a clerk is you know staying on your feet all day Monday dealing with the general public well that was a nice experience but just then there was this so it was well wrought on well actually this is a different we're different people with this story a lot of blacks blacks were so we were nice you know the nice that cost a lot more trouble so.

[00:41:56]
That brought it all but at the Blacks are very very applied sentiments and job experience really and I think helpful to know what the people who do make a living. I want to talk to you about somebody I know you know very well which is George Griffin and I I know you know him all of your other life at Tech and I was about your when you were students Did you ever come to his attention are no no the military he was not he was the I had Georgia Tech Lab would see him I don't know what he was doing during or what do was he in the motor Yes he eventually put on a naval uniform I recall the one that negotiated the Naval or o.t.c. under the quail program and then he went in softly and well most of my friends were in the v 12 program you know they stayed take until they graduated and that was a sad part of the c.p.b. that I did not what I thought they were right but I thought that important Ajak been roasted in forever you know about having done that when you know the poor man would never have done this remember I'm sure it was very pro-choice I think he was running the color department at that time with the.

[00:43:04]
I think. The one yes he but he was I think so in charge and I think that's something Grif Chris and we're going to start that with another graph in the yeah that was the George Griffin started was we thought Griffin was another Griffin I think that my thanks room I blamed.

[00:43:24]
And I don't I don't hear that and I know George Worthless confusion to me that I may even have the wrong graph in since I would do what I do you know there were 2 but I do know George Griffin he's on one the study they found the Career Services Program back in the twenty's late twenty's I said where you want to help kids find placement and you know I'm saying that Ajax took over with career placement Yes and it was all kind of.

[00:43:50]
On the whole Ajax was well liked by people like cooperation and. I heard good things about him as a faculty member and so forth so I think later yes there are certain things he remembered association with each of them mentioned the humor and I've got over famous for turning your hearing you know if you no longer wish to go you know he started teaching me calculus and so must I got sick and he was rather amusing I did these all professors like that soft treated us like children he explained that in integral calculus it was a little bit like getting on a street call where you had to talk and.

[00:44:32]
You had to make sure the function of the exact differential for your. Richard is hearing you know you. He was reputed to do that he was stories of people but he was very nice to my mother May when I got something very very present now his secretary was the one I think that's due to a friend she's also had a cataract operation and she looked like a 100 years ago and they think Coca-Cola glasses and I forget her name but she was the one the students contacted nice got these guys in the back office if you dig around directly right this big room psyched I ran.

[00:45:13]
And there weren't that many women and friend the Professor that you see. That he he was a senior Yeah this thing you want for that's us we have fled the UK to Britain to sell them on campus not so easy even at that time right at that time the president's house was across the street when yes I'll wooden house I have a I do 2 in my office so I.

[00:45:37]
Know we got torn down for the Virgin party but I was a big sort of rambling Victorian looking have to let my grandmother's house and Albany. You know I'm sure it was falling down been there for a long time you think about you know what that would have looked like just a rambling house you know and he still lived there even though he never came across as much as he got older Well we were talking earlier when Jamie Anthony was the president's keeper by ensuring he was right so did you get to know Jimmy when you were stood No no it's a much lighter ride and so you are forcing your fortune you wish I had even though you were out for a time you still were going to graduate you know around here and help to you if you were 19 Thank you yes I was not paying when I graduated and when you graduated What was your on your mind when talking about graduate school yes I talked to the professors in chemistry and Dr Ross recommended to me and for you that was just well applied to Harvard also holiday and I'm up to I think I was on to screw promises they have to time you will be doing a Ph d. Well mit offered me a graduate of fellowship hall but didn't have anything that's true of I went to mit and well that was exactly shit you know like right the wrong with going there right but that's farther away from yeah right or so that just mean you didn't have to pay they were going to let you go Well it paid the 2 issue buffer.

[00:47:13]
The pay the Dhamma tours. With a quote about you. Assume So they support it. And it is your you know I figured I had to do something you didn't know enough in chemistry as an undergraduate to really do much and cares what you think you know teaching yourself that you're like I thought I would be an industrial chemist the think that's right minded in chemical engineering at mit I would have preferred to have mounted in physical chemistry but they had a rule you couldn't take your mind with in the same department so I had to choose another department or isn't that interesting how they have their trips where they've changed in them but that was through when i tell me you left in 1 December.

[00:48:00]
I know when I graduate from Georgia Tech in the summer for full I stayed at Georgia Tech for. I was not well aware of what I was going to do so I applied late to graduate school so I didn't start until 49 the. Second semester artiste. No no politics Bob what is that they once Master said you stay at tax and since.

[00:48:30]
I was the salt of the teaching assistant I think they were called it I was charging it at run the laboratory for things like that clean things up. So that gave you a little break what one if one was to college right. Rather than with you my parents by then had moved to live in that interesting so I got to stay home one more semester.

[00:48:57]
And then you were in my heart and you're going off to Massachusetts right on the train so that I read never been before why no man having the experience of a new car and that was a well established school even if that's. Right you're intimidated by the. Look won't do it I thought I hope you're right that leaving so far was a little frightening I remember that when I got to New York City you had to change trains into the Grand Central Station.

[00:49:31]
But that was a nice old people who explained to me how do you know that and I don't try to me to take me to that place now but I was. It was a. This was the winter and spring of 45 we already had the easy part of the war has been resolved.

[00:49:54]
Right. After that came that thing that came in the fall not this bring up that idea we already said so things were looking better. Or worse almost another year before. And there was a difficult time and did you find that there were a lot of military in their minds yes the military was still there had the Chinese soldiers were undergoing some field training and they were right amusing the obvious like emphasize that all exactly the same height and not not really very tall you know like it's 5 feet 6 you know but the exact same height if you notice the 1st friend I made in my thirty's and on the tour where we would stay in that time in undergrad diameter since the Navy occupied the graduate house.

[00:50:47]
And this Chinese officer nice he's. Right and he's the son of a Chinese smiled work for a Chinese embassy in Washington you know. Yes that was hard to tell but also they look so you don't. Look good at the school as a platoon I guess it was. Exactly the same height so that look they did so they could have the people I chatted to do that.

[00:51:17]
I wonder how. Great he talked about criteria I met a journalist much on Jack's wife's nephew at mit he lives in chemical engineering. And the richest people of ever known what the Chinese who go into Harvard my Chinese friend knew all these people so I'm going to Harvard the richest people I've ever known were graduate students at Harvard University You Got Me Yeah yeah yeah with your fuckin You haven't.

[00:51:52]
Done that with I don't think about enough of it ever thought they were competitive and I didn't know different actresses right these girls were actually going to let's us girls go across the street. Radcliffe it's part of Harvard but the school girls say that was the girls go they could take this see how it was still segregated psych so they could take courses sort of like I just got an Emory if they couldn't get it go with Radcliffe go up to Hama just like Ebola So you got your life in any normal everything was.

[00:52:28]
You know this that in academic day I did not find it difficult and I was surprised how similar the courses had been. To target and yes all right. So George exact really was given your good yes I would say that the my main problem is that the fresh funded mit started in calculus and physics and that meant that when they graduated they were year ahead of me at Georgia Tech rod and at Georgia Tech when we started studying physics we had not had calculus and so in a sense that could teach physics the way it really should have been taught well while it in mighty The student studied physics 2 years and stuck Cacace 1st year so they could study physics of calculus.

[00:53:25]
Rot. It's interesting that you say it wasn't that challenging for you because when you talk to other people really cry about Georgia Tech and mit So you were. Very well well we were yeah but we were under pressure to you know you didn't know where they might be for us like chemical engineering the grading system a spirit difficult I found the fact that chemical engineer and chemistry wasn't that way but.

[00:53:54]
We had quizzes they give us exams and I would make 50 percent on it you thought you plainly with the problem but. You need to know when you last or did you graduate work or. You didn't and I got the 5 Kappa fact trophy for a scholarship if you mean well prepared a way George could make I think so and it was just a different way of grading the kind of writer you got right mit did not give a b. C's and had 84 on the line another great thing I think I could cover A's and B.'s and then there was.

[00:54:33]
That they did then they're right sort of so they had 2 passing grades h. was a high grade it only took you 3 years to get your Ph right and which is pretty exceptional I mean you wrote your dissertation even though I have to ask you Do you remember what you just.

[00:54:53]
I was on a fellowship from the office a rubber reserve we worked on synthetic rubber the country was still worried about being cut off from the natural rubber so the u.s. government had a big project on synthetic rubber and that was one of the successes like the Manhattan Project quiet that we do not really suffer although the tires were shot it's not sharp for the military since the synthetic rubber was manufactured had never been made in the us until after the war was really scary for the government.

[00:55:24]
The Germans had made robot even during robot one is very interesting we were behind right in the Japanese It captured the robot plantation so we got it was very frightened about it and so that was with the. Research I was in the research project was on where you were to find the ways to make them believe and were already being made over the Germans you had makes the u.s. government have to get out and make it like subsidize the factors to Baghdad so the end of the war there Mike and Cynthia were up and that's what we mostly used.

[00:55:59]
When the g.r.s. rebel government something reserved robust happen and. When you think back to that time at mit we're just at mit Now those 3 years what was the most what's the best memory or him what was going on in your life you mentioned you met wealthy people did you have a little bit more social life there well not not a whole lot more but of course I did start dating then the you know I was a bit right I was a little different and how would you meet anyone well how girls are them I tell you so the older were yes and mit had art become integrated out of Harvard that had not.

[00:56:46]
Had. A classmate Yes right in graduate grad students and they had in our laboratory they had girls technicians one. Typical day and well my 1st date was with one of the graduate students in chemistry who I class with and with her movies and places like I think I think we went to a movie right right and so you were living a typical of the time we were talking.

[00:57:17]
I have to the wall as you say has come to and we got back into the graduate half that was a great improvement but 1st went to the thing you have to integrate you have and that was it a lot better quality like I'll write. You did you go year round there graduate houses all hotel and post and write right cross streets and the t.v. had a dining hall in it and they're very pleasant rooms and I think it's backed up a lot of very large room now did you go here yes of course right here you know come.

[00:57:51]
I came home just the holidays maybe once a year very expensive and do the walk there hard to get when you get up of course trying to make it home and so you really have to focus on what you are doing the idea with the Web It's much knowledge is.

[00:58:06]
What is your happy memory of. Well Happy members. Professor actually Dan who was the master of the grand Hassett was it came so I got to know him very well and he said I mean it came is 2 studs in Switzerland and. Then in fact I would to faculties they had the OFAC when I entered and then they got a new department head professor keys and retired from the Cope is a young much younger chemist and you had young faculties so I really got to tend to the old go and the new school audit classes of the new professors so that would mean they're very fortunate that I could get the most not any exams project yes it did they have to really see a completely different viewpoint something you agree.

[00:58:58]
Here that appeals what you were right exactly it so that was very important good experience because you were only when you were in Georgia Tech it was. Yes they were all right. In there which is wonderful because of the with right. Bret you have the right I thought so.

[00:59:18]
Were you by the time you were up into your part of graduate school pretty sure you wouldn't. By my last year I was pretty sure of that although I did interview some companies in the south I'm thankful I didn't work for them the South didn't have their name chemical companies that I would want to work for and if you took you when I did I thought that would be an educational experience you're probably one of the only told you that's not right my lab partner Greg we had a lab together worked for Dupont sent resources here for a spot I think that would been a good investor job but these and if you put South would not have been very good in the scope of what you were definitely going I wanted to go back to you if they can't go home again you can try.

[01:00:03]
But you. Cold I mean you're not used to that well Mit is built lovely for that had one big room all all my classes were in one building and the. The 1st dom terrace estate image on about tunnel to the graduate to the dining room. And just had a very short the just a short distance to walk to mit across the.

[01:00:30]
Masters Avenue to the great student park so really very little exposure. Still no but walking across the hall bridge I think it was Col which is a master 70 was very cold it's a must bridge must be a half mile long and very flat in the water you get swept by the winds that was there coal have a good old coat and hat and scarf and so it was with your heart your.

[01:01:00]
Heart and because you feel a little like a foreigner that is I felt a little like these Chinese and Indian student that's something that culture to culture shock. Right Aha And we really want to go home again. But. What was your 1st well I was interviewing these can't miss I got a call from Georgia Tech and unsolicited but you didn't touch.

[01:01:32]
Well Professor spy cell had tried to see me what's the news that a c.s.v. to get in Boston makes New York City but he could vine is all we can. Say only touched on when I came we come back my parents I told you we live in Atlanta so when I came back to Atlanta I would go by Georgia Tech sometimes that's when I really got to know Mr Dein of here will find out what a very nice man he really was your lecture a Christian gentleman.

[01:01:59]
With the Africa of he was not a long time from Paul Callaway was the new chancellor. And how would you heard about well I had him in organic a difficult lab it was a senior lab and came straight to you know you guys Ok you came back to Atlanta without the job or the old with all that off it was that in my case I really like the summer after I graduate from mit that spring I stayed on the mit and worked for my professor.

[01:02:29]
I think it was my summer job Ok so I did have a summer job and I got the offer I had the offer in the spring but it's taken start to June so you know so you look back and baggage you were back I did indeed and they that Christmas they moved to Baltimore Maryland How about that father working for a big company you know they will be able to ride that was funny wasn't it yeah it is funny really it was just like that I put you out on your own I had what did you think of that you were going to be one of the young lions Yeah well it was a little disturbing because the students some of them was young as I was you know.

[01:03:11]
About not graduate students about my age so you had you were right right on the ability and it was in Challenger right going on in this riot and I imagine it was hard to get in the respect when you're the same age as them are well you know George Tech has always been rather formal is not a fact and the students treat professors in those days are very nice and I.

[01:03:37]
Mean the students are tested so we're not naive they've always been selective and say you know we're not going to take you to figure out maybe this is a good thing well you just saw to go into it. You just sort of grew in and so this is of the I must say when and aggression was facing us if.

[01:04:00]
That we had decided to integrate I was going to solve. For you when we're talking about integration of women blacks and blacks and that time that could've been a revolutionary time 948 yeah that was a very uncertain time and I was not going to do that and so 948 you come to school and some of the old faces were still there but there were some new faces Ok I'm back to really or was definitely I would definitely write meaning and George Griffin came back around and around that time our rotten What are the dramatic things that we look and we look at the picture books and your books and things of that a lot of the across the g.i. bill had been put through a lot of people coming back were older right they work as you know as you noted that they made you only got the tail end of that and for 40 or so identifies the big group you didn't I did not write just the tail and say they would have graduated most of these had been to school a year or 2 and they're held up another 2 years so you know but I'm interviewing people into the early fifty's even you know in fraternities that there were still some veterans that were in their late twenty's that decided them to come back in get there last year and never last 2 years in because it was free they could do it how do you know so you tell me where you moved to in the Atlanta what kind of city we really did you get an apartment Well I ventured I got an apartment and I lived in the y.m.c.a. 1st and downtown Atlanta or did you know my lucky yes and yes it's no longer diag Asiri comfortable for you to get to work right that so I did not have a car you know obviously a call so in fact hard to get still and I didn't want it but I didn't have the money to buy a car of course.

[01:05:49]
So you had to take the streetcar I forget what I did that I was a nice nice walk I think I won't go I'm not sure I'm not certain be a bad cousin waiting on the street cos for the blog it all could it's just a different concept I'm not going to get my cue St Now you know it's a big old aquarium there and everything else going on in.

[01:06:09]
Coca-Cola everything is hard to remember what it was almost a small town feel that Lucky Street when you look at the boat. I mentioned I moved to a part of on the chemistry of their successes that you know I shared an apartment near near Little 5 Points did your social life pick up yeah he and I discussed it and he went to his churches Church of Christ so I went to do it His Church of Christ and half my closer to where we live with Drusus pressing charges Presbyterian so with by we did that purposefully looking for a girl closer right now good girl Right right exactly and so you started.

[01:06:51]
Right we knew the local restaurants in movies of course right and back well I should tell you that in Boston I went to the Atlanta Symphony did you hear what the hot air are well well it was you could walk off the street caught that Masters Avenue it was only about a mile and a half from the greater capacity like the edge of the bath and have a little more cultural liked me so I'm sure I'm John but the Boston Symphony right about you and Koussevitzky was in charge and so bad Leonard Bernstein sometimes correct correct didn't notice it right and when you came back to it rather though you got back in the social life that was the Southern Ocean right anything what go into the movie yeah which function going to concerts and things like that do we have a lot of that I know the opera came to it right there yes they operate in that right that's why I used to always go to the opera but we also had the last and we had the Atlanta path as well as the Atlantic so I don't think in those years they had the pop they sniff nay was the informant you stink go to hear that.

[01:08:00]
But but now we're going to stop getting most of what was going on with the music at Georgia to. Poke out a glee club I think that probably had one then I'm not sure. Any new would of it later had a very very prominent club when it came back because they were traveling with us so water Herbert was there and I did and he had worked up with the year he had been the band director Herbert had and what he did with the he had a very strong grade class so he volunteered to travel with the u.s.o. during They did it that were into World War 2 in the beginning of Korea coming later in the system I thought of him always as a Georgia Tech band director and he was a group of men I didn't even know that you had to climb the track and and they went everywhere they went all the all the bases station because we were a newspaper article you know all the time traveling in 484849 now when you were there but when you came back to mean what they were doing they were on television they made.

[01:09:05]
Yes I live in show in 93 you know in memory. Very prominent You see every department of Georgia Tech is an empire to. As it was it in my day that's when I was at mit I would like to have studied quantum mechanics but quantum mechanics was taught in physics you were allowed and that and the trouble about that if it's been taught in chemistry I could've taken it but taught in physics that use a different language from chemists and I did not think I had the mathematical office expect Graham thought if I had been an mit undergraduate I would come in from Georgia Tech out and he did another year of physics and another year of mathematics I had been taught in chemistry they could've taught it where I could understood it it doesn't really require all that but you know we've been taught by physics to mit had broken up the Empire physics they had had John Slate It was very famous in quantum mechanics He's a physicist so what happened when you get to George I had to learn.

[01:10:09]
Well I had to learn quantum mechanics from one of my teams to comic Bill Eberhard So you would I want to go well attended class. So you know that was a disadvantage but how was it him. At mit of a job that your back is well Paul Callaway was Cham and they were hiring lots of new factory if you can imagine the OFAC they were retiring you know pretty much of a hurry right and so they got in a new credibility Hart was still came to Georgia Tech a year before I did he graduate from Cal Tech and there Linus Pauling was jamming with canes Department and he and he saw to develop chemical quantum mechanics.

[01:10:57]
But. It was still the province of the physicist been developed in physics in Germany so that was why. I'm attempting to release and the start the graduate program p.s.t. program chemistry the year I joined the faculty so you got it right and so right so they had it right I had graduate students my 1st year the 1st year graduates 1st yes yes I think a mystery these these were the students I take the older than I was they were veterans and I think.

[01:11:32]
It was a huge leap for Iraq interesting sort of like learning under the guise. Of the same thing but when I was at mit I was what's called a teaching assistant for the right that was in the analytical chemistry labs but I had these wonderful in the undergraduate how many classes really make teach for.

[01:11:57]
You know that's a good question I think I think we had maybe 2 labs that week to do. That right right and how did you find the typical of the mit students some of these will bring you a Georgia Tech well off graded Georgia Tech my 1st 10 to 15 years the way I've been graded at Georgia Tech and you might see not that I could see no difference and I found out from my cousin who taught high school in Miami that I was considered a very difficult Professor grade you know like yes a little surprised I thought all of the that purpose.

[01:12:35]
So they had they had graded hard when I was an undergraduate what I always so I tried to teach the student as the way I'd been taught where they could into grad school and mit a Harvard. You want to hear right did you find you have a good calibers here well some more and some are not as you know but the sufferings of some that are gone well around them long yes chemistry had the bad reputation of flunking many of the students that they would either make a change right now well chemistry was a requirement for that I think architecture is excessive from that all of the every engineer ever been essentially about had to take it so it was used at Georgia Tech to learn that students who couldn't learn exactly right and so right from them write them a.s.l. with a strong right heart because I heard it a lot in the you know that they would use it and physics and math all the other things that we had them out for those that were not civil engineer but not by half of the junior and senior years here sometimes we need through the 1st year that by physics and math and then they transfer to industrial management right right they are right it was by the time you came back in 48 they had started group started the industrial right engineering me that a lot of them went to that yeah I had a brother in law who graduates.

[01:14:01]
In Christmas with the most prestigious grant you can guess. Which I see in that interesting well because it's got such wide application and because we're the number one school in the country. It's interesting and it is based primarily on logistics but I was going to say that I am graduates are the ones that made the most money or the always did.

[01:14:25]
More money being the c.e.o. of a company than you do being a chemical professor I remember reading a book by Henry Adams he had thought that the engineers one of the future. In that book he thought that would be it but they had never. You know it's an investor mansions that run all the industries the bikers the engineers always thought by no but important and essential but 2nd rights isn't what it's for and David Gergen also that we're talking about yeah that god you're talking about money that's exactly what I'm talking about economically Yeah there but it doesn't make sense you know it does and it's hurting the u.s. right now if you're one of whether or not many people my age in engineering or science or small calmly graduate 70000 a year as opposed to China or.

[01:15:10]
Something like exactly because the kids go to the money exactly what they want to know where am I going to be so that's terrible for a town right now where we're going to fix that the you know I don't say this book written because of the grandson of the Adams president so that's what the 100 your hanner Adams Well he taught at home so maybe in 192900 you know I write all right when you think but he couldn't understand he really thought engineers would be the future of the country.

[01:15:45]
Just turn out that life ours is as if you can only say are new the ones that build or build the roads and design the cities and one that means that they do but there are less and less youngsters going into the right that doesn't doesn't play well that is the problem and I also thought it would be a society in anything that we could dream up or solution to that right except that.

[01:16:11]
The rude awakening you know we're not just or we're not of the I think we're going to have a rude awakening but 10 years I think this company terrible to. When this financial system crashes is something we can and even those of us like myself who are not that astute look of as they were ever since I was young I remember hearing about the horizon with the red menace on the horizon let me tell you about chemistry they have as you heard of the radio I refinery in United States and 30 years is pretty scary Ok You know that's many Georgia Tech.

[01:16:47]
Quite Asterix good job yeah if there's no refineries for the price of that used to be we saw this in the textile industry is going to happen with the automotive industry because pretty soon China will be producing cars and there won't be absolutely no automotive engineering that's going to be a lot of things that we're going to be so something's going for them yeah it's kind of scary I think so too yeah and I said you know we use talk about the Red Menace and then it was the sleeping giant in China is starting to stand up is that we didn't know much anymore and there's In India too has a wonderful engineering school they're producing I want nobody I hate to talk to Indian So the telephone about my Dell Computer.

[01:17:29]
I think although I know I know insulin is because I had a lot of Indians graduate students are very very intelligent people and that but they don't speak English the way Americans do this is absolute no question talking to an end to their learning these problems the British and not very well with all the call centers are there only by very well educated and into did not speak things that most sadness can understand I can understand better than most people think you know and if you look at Georgia Tech today the graduate programs are more and more foreign students in America going to graduate school but we're getting ahead of ourselves let's go back to the early days of Dr Grove and Dean being from both yes he said By the end of 10 or 15 years you were considered a tough grader I knew I was going to write that's when you learned the hard rod right now somewhere along in that time you met your wife in right well I should tell you that I'm Liane is my 2nd wife my 1st wife Catherine I met from a friend I had the y.m.c.a. introduce me to her she was a file a Presbyterian and so you have a German name so I'm trying to die younger.

[01:18:41]
Really German right and you married her when you were teaching them yes on that or. 1st trial and what Catherine died when the child that for you so much of your writing and your 1st child was John. And so you had in that with the you're right my parents stayed here in this house to look after their parents harbor for their.

[01:19:08]
One thing and how long did you struggle as a single parent about a year I don't usually And I mean from going through the 1st year in church agreed to marry me it sounds. Like you don't know a lot I. Know you really you know read church long before you marry or I'll know much article and so she stepped into Mother germs are you.

[01:19:33]
Wonder Well I when I was a drew his 1st in church where you know we had to bury myself classically they had one girl but she seemed too possessive so I thought that they did well girls sometimes because you know you're going from your feeling tangle. Would be completely independently you had some drastic changes to make in your life absolutely right and right.

[01:19:56]
After later in your career to really enjoy and join faculty why you always there were people on the campus right she did I mean I didn't I mean chemistry is all demanding profession we seldom knew anybody but you are right I did eating the dining hall and that's about the only way I could meet the faculty we did in the early years of 10 faculty meetings and I get to least have the new ones introduced but my last 1015 years you didn't attend faculty meetings and long so there's no way to meet the new faculty for his I know they would have a faculty actually they would have a faculty representative.

[01:20:35]
It's just that would go for Paul the rest of the faculty Yeah that's what I think they still do that when you talk about an empire or and I say they're separate imposture Yeah exactly so all departments attack a separate and boss and here you work where you are in the what we call the chemistry building now yes yes we were in last 1st in than your laboratory as it's called It was called the chemical annex 1st to Mr Daniel died the name for him do you know where that is that's right next to the athletic association office.

[01:21:09]
The butterfly looking concrete thing on the street you know that's now I think about it yeah I think has it up a certain way and I do the 3rd floor on that while I was in that building. So another significant thing that happened just after you started working and you're going through all these personal crises is that Georgia Tech finally got the stick in interviews women yes that was our family was determined that we were absolutely and a very good idea and function fine when was easily the same out he had already done it I think that was it you know I think about the u.s. involvement it was rather dramatic it was years before I had a female students really don't take my i'll not my they couldn't take them I don't think there's any reason why there was restricted from taking a chemistry if they could take it in any other school I didn't know that hires the one I want to thank to be so very late to do that I didn't jump in you could take in other schools other public institutions forgotten that I must have heard it was one of those rules that in the end electrical engineering you couldn't take anywhere else isn't the only one the most electable engineer how about that because that was the way they could get their foot the door what was interesting that the word women came there was a lot of resistance on the part of Jews because they didn't want so-called dumbed down well is that you know the root cause I don't think I ever had it all changes over time and I'm not sure it made a difference cos I don't think I ever had an undergrad or female.

[01:22:36]
In my class undergraduate students it was in the seventy's is because. You know the rules changed by the time and I've interviewed some of but not many now myself to major in chemistry you see and then the light said this so timely the jobs begin to drop in chemical engineering then.

[01:22:53]
Isn't there well that's in the e.p.a.. Was the main reason for that that's cheaper to build a chemical plant in a foreign country than to buy the ph through it so they have a chemical plants in United States in 30 or 40 years so it's hard chemical engineer and chemistry I interviewed him a woman in chemistry.

[01:23:16]
She had to petition and petitions as addition again I got the permission to get into chemistry 100 name awesome I can't remember right now but it's interesting to me and they had to fight their way through the 1st essay for most of the reason that they were able to muddle through with math nicely and that happened.

[01:23:36]
Maybe 160 the 1st woman to graduate from there but everything every step of the way it was before I'm Landis knew we didn't have and so you know thank me and all but thankfully the 1st women were graduate students so you just would see him around the right just to get right on hard and you know after they actually came in 52 for all the fussing they made before they came there with you know this pretty much ignored I guess I remember the black women.

[01:24:04]
That reminded much much later I know I remember those I had back when do you remember the integration itself in 61 no reparation for that no I did not did not affect what it was I mean Dr Harrison has family or had left by men after here and came in and he just thought it was ridiculous I had not been done it right was it to be done peacefully right it was a well engineer probably was thinking part of the preparation and then you were everybody you know he met with everybody on the command but not you know since we were not good women never affected me and nor did the integration of blacks and the early some of the early blacks did take chemistry right on started to see undergraduates and members never a problem for you in any.

[01:24:51]
During that some black graduate students are Remember the Eventually when. This fifties rule I mean the 50s would buy with women with no implant that impact on you right and sixties little impact on my seventies you were so well established and when did you know chemistry still is a little kingdom This always gets to the pharmacy tech alone in your thoughts day I think so they have attempted to break that up at the graduate level.

[01:25:19]
And that's because into disarray research is always fashionable right and so that's some bright time but I think that certainly has been since the violence in the area has come in and exactly around exactly it actually came in the early seventy's with Dr Walter bloom that was when it came to me trying to create something like that but it never took off a lot of it did with the partnership with them really in the last right in your writing so I'd already back pack my then.

[01:25:50]
But you served under a lot of presidents you were writing you were well experienced Dr Britton served under them are your Harrison and then here and Dr Pettit Well in between here and or we had recently Yeah you had a couple of acting in there too right but they were mostly Joe Tex crackly like but we're always up to the stability part of the presidency we see of him Harrison and then I answer with their so briefly then onto Had it been in passing the stress yes he did I think he has changes I think were not liked by the factor but I think he did great thanks for the school was no faculty never like to know what you are talking about and it didn't really affect us and came straight we had no objection at all he'd never spoken direct effects of Engineers had it he insisted that they big do graduate work and have grad school in he focused on research write a cycle here I had to be developed we went to Paul still since me and of course he's his right hand man and really the core product they were in complete agreement on everything as far as I could I would yeah I think pretty much right and it really changed the direction of the university yes he did time you know research I think that was all for the good so.

[01:27:05]
Far right on the right. You re still there when he passed away yes and that was a very sad thing for the institution you're talking about like Ben we're talking about Paris but he was I had retired I hadn't you know. You know I thought I had written he died Well he you know the capital Cain campaign kicked off Ok and then he was trying to you know the centennial interview and in 95 and they had hoped that he would you know be able to see it through and then when he when he passed away was it really 37 I'm not saying I'm retired and yet you wrote We already had a new president then that decreasing because yes he did he did but ask ask the new stuff so you had no experience with him on he was at my retirement he set the table with us but you know his wife was I don't know she was on the ground right and so she was that he offered no explanation for why he was embarrassed so really didn't talk to thank you was embarrassed when he was a big change maker at Georgia Tech and with the faculty sure screamed about that he really did a good thing in the long run I just don't know enough about it coming up here so you know like we said already like the crystal.

[01:28:18]
Is very very good for the future few years it was there was such abrupt person I don't know if the p.r. skills you might appear. Think you're right I mean the sales job you know the talk in the faculty of anything is no difficulty writing care and you believe well I think it was spread like with so in you know that kind of being the only time judges that are prepared in camp where the people thought either but he was is only had a very strong mind and he's not always right it worked out all right or so if you're It's Ok it's Ok if you're I mean right but he was also approachable I are your people I've talked to people who knew him personally you know that he in Florence were very hospitable last was very nice and I was so he was difficult to approach.

[01:29:07]
Yes Yes So here in our crossing North Avenue to get to go to what used to be the tech y.m.c.a. fabric and I comment to him it's too bad we don't have a red light yet across. And he said well I don't think so I had told that it landed to remove it you know right really.

[01:29:29]
And you know a year later they built the bridge across but was never used when I was there and you know what wasn't used it it would been convenient exit to go into the y.m.c.a. the 2nd floor. And they did because the secretaries were afraid to leave that open.

[01:29:48]
Because at that time Tech good project was there and they had a lot of crime and drugs that a psych business afraid to leave and you thought was never you got one of my men all very close sectors were packed and Rob Sometimes I would that night when they would get in the car can really.

[01:30:04]
Never open and say that's no the history this is true out it was now here it was there in the reviews you can see that right now but I think sample Pettitte has close my post about his decisions was always right and he would not tell anybody else's opinion on now but fortunately he was nearly always right that's right that's right we do know certainly the people in these departments who run them who disagree with you not like it was not likely that it was so he had been up against all that do you remember running into summer during that period of time 40 years of being on faculty you're making it clear to me that chemistry was over his own thing but surely you got to meet some of the other of course we knew chemical engineers we knew best I had no clue this in particular but you know Paul weapon was really chemist he was trying to gas ph d. in chemistry not can engineer and so I knew him very well you know yeah impressive yes he was also he was always nice to chemistry so we very well.

[01:31:08]
He understood the chemical problems I don't remember well if you understand so he would understand one stance and so I guess I didn't realize it was so delineated. So separate what about George George to encounter him in the year well when I was chairman of the fact we are committed to select the dean interviewed here.

[01:31:32]
Just to see what was and was easy or pleasant as you can imagine also interviewed Bob and Don He was also very very nice and very low. Both I'm a very easy to talk to very unassuming. That was not very humble. Very nice just to talk to journalists everything I ever years Lena's uncle used to play tennis.

[01:31:56]
So now you're right right right so I got to make it right for athlete every right he was and was just a very very nice man as was just Griffin just nice people you know right good somebody you would want to be right right and he could socialize Right right absolutely So the next very nice but everyone I ever going to of you knew George Griffin had a George Norry and the story about the dogs son was very very very nice individually and tell me a great George Griffin story.

[01:32:25]
Before we were talking and that's what I'm going to remember is that the one I'm looking for is why Yes Ok that was that's a bright spot right that's a good story and George was a bit scatterbrained the forgot things that he had well he's not old by then so he had retired when he was very young and he still had to say you know that right you know for forgive people he could remember everybody's name but he could forget where it was I didn't know him that well but he didn't say that way to me Tell me did you ever encounter George people when you were never well I should tell you that childbirth builds a chemistry classmate of mine and his mother had no trouble and wrote and at Georgia Tech didn't want to thank you I did not believe his mother had collab explained the bird I was left by midnight on his that really happened it really happened and his friend of mine is dead man and the instant I am in you him they went to during his press tour in church you know we've known all about that so you knew about the word you had been doing all right so you weren't a bad cold no not at all but it did happen from time to time right Professor They would write so most of the professors.

[01:33:37]
Had Been die. A few of their young students see just tried to take advantage of those I had one in math and the student stuff paper in the keyhole way couldn't. I did luck with. The professor Yeah just struck up a contract but they did take advantage of the yeah they would if they could if they knew less than you know you can understand you know just as I write you.

[01:34:03]
One of the students little bonfire does classical slow My Yeah but as it did that it does try to build good burnouts like that. That was very funny do you. Want to do it just said it. And it's really I can't even believe some of. The property most professors knew how to handle students and their own safety is a very sad I have never had any trouble with.

[01:34:30]
You know the ones that are pursuing anything with you were. Smarter than the average I was told that broke in about office didn't same one time that we had to change the system really think that actually happened I'm afraid it probably did after that we did store exams in the office and.

[01:34:49]
But you know there's students that could climb up and steal the t.l.c. the tech power could easily get in the 2nd store store office no problem you know. From that just a minor challenge right right. But you just that's just. All right and so much to find the honor system worked very well this was the professors have their on it and the students had the system and so it really cause it works the way of.

[01:35:22]
The professor said to have the system to get get this right yes I think that was probably the best way to handle it heard the Stormers know that the military. You know it involves students as you could read on and by see you had to read on your friends so it was very hard at West Point and places nonresponsive in universe to be ginger that had a system he thought was terrible Yes I better.

[01:35:50]
Well. With professor can discipline them so you really had as it were police in the classrooms and these big classes I had I didn't like them but when you had a 100 students you could know them and so when we gave final exams we would have the graduate students who were in the labs who knew the least half of.

[01:36:16]
Desist in product Proctor crockery science and so forth well I'll hold it worked out I think pretty well you think. We were right I had one student that cheated in the lab this report and they bowed the. Grade or desist. And had to give her an f. she's from Iran of all places pretty girl pretty beautiful blue pretty girl but she did not dumb thing I mean if you dumb if she had used someone's.

[01:36:52]
Spectra taken the previous Yeah the paper changes for what you. Said she was caught red had it so there was no way to get back I'm. Surprised the labs were places where it was easy to cheat perhaps inside certain apartments perhaps. It is interesting because that is not the kind of school we.

[01:37:16]
Know it was not I don't think so a big problem dropped I. Wish I had a little problem when I was a. Grad student in my t. the students complained to the professor that as students with cheating that they were doing it they're so smart and mighty so smart I didn't know a thing about it we had to change the method of it was over given they say I think what a grabby but there were you know swapping slide rules and things but that I had answers on the ground.

[01:37:42]
Could you not let a bar slab are these days it's even worse the telephone and you can get the whole exam on top of all. The yeah right because I don't know what to do they don't have that problem but I don't have that what I would write about that weighs enough I would not permit telephones in the home what is your warmest memory from that from your career for years and when you think back of it what are you which is a good memory for a lot of good memories you know remember this from students in particular that impressed your like when I'm with you sanity really really do you do they gave me in those wow he's a grad and graduate student that was somebody had seen him in 4 years and you know what Yeah he worked where he can cook up and came back.

[01:38:33]
And he had a good career I think so. Either any of you personally were. Mentoring graduates because your career. Well we had a whole lot of students that did rather well the ones that would be spectacular would be the undergrad groups that went to grad school at Harvard on Cal Tech and had a right and even become anything.

[01:39:01]
Yes some and then believe the middle of the University California those are b.b. 9 meaning Right right right so you can remember the relationships we have right and. The thrill of helping them be better right and some of the students I had at the mit did very well too as you can imagine.

[01:39:23]
When you think back of your 4 years it was a pretty big right and so I enjoyed doing research and you saw the students you're not upset that you didn't go to the after no not not all over you don't think I think so what was your research Ok I did research on August Acholi metal compounds I got into that at the mit we did Plimer zation before going to class metal compounds so I studied that rearrangements of again a metallic again potassium cesium sodium compound so that's what you were writing about and that's one of the things that I did also did Chemical kinetics and how much pressure was there on your job to produce write.

[01:40:10]
Well print publisher publish or perish I watched Unfortunately I say that still existence has not been well and will always will always be it was a very great when I started Georgia Tech but I knew that I had to do things because drug tech we're trying to turn over a new leaf in chemistry came straight off the dock the screen before most engineers and thought was did we want to 1st offer the thinking please universe a person in chemistry I think was a 2nd so we knew we had to do research so that was fun.

[01:40:44]
There was not that much. To pressure the pressure to publish the pressure came probably went well yeah very much so but before that the pressure came to get money and really were paid it was it was to get money that was it and before that the school subsidized research Well I would say yes but when he came if you didn't get on great rants what you could do research you could not change the way you had been taught.

[01:41:11]
People that you would have pressure well right it changed the attitude of the faculty and which I think is specified undergrad it's rather unfortunate that is if you know advancement depends on your getting a government grant and doing research where your product is Your says Right right so I didn't have a feeling of that pressure but I think about starting over again I would and I would that would not recommend to young fellows to go into it teaching and university is just bad that's really bad because you know but there's a lot of economic pressure from the state of Georgia.

[01:41:52]
For more graduate. Work more graduates but if they can but if they can't get good jobs you see there's no reason to happen so the chemical industry decline and you know I States like we have Toyota has and it's going to be bad for all the color so something bad is they can have them you know it's like.

[01:42:14]
Going to change in 1015 years I think. Right I thought of a depression we would go in like I grew up in shortage of money to me. Ok Well I've done a little bit on genealogy you have you know I'm guessing wrong and member of the job your Sulzberger society grow instance itself Burke and a lot of families tighten Amy.

[01:42:42]
And later when by good old overthought 2nd set of jolt you. And you've been in and you're writing on the amount. Well actually one reason I'm going to Cannes to always like Color Of course group and flower gardens in Albany my grandmother had a pretty Florida insularity and canister when I was a student again identification was all about color of color persistence is beautiful crystal I still think gristle beautiful.

[01:43:17]
Facade a perfect state of matter. And it's a little bit of your your dad your grandmother right in the dirt kind of rip right and no I had a can't get good chemistry set enough growing up lather things straight but chemical you who compost for find Cobol compounds you can call it things right right so and chemistry you identify things by that color these days Robyn visual color they look at the tracings you know they get the spectra in the visible spectrum the lines on the chart not quite so excited you are right right I know you specialize they really know what is what is the proper name for him or callous what I like about Daley's are that you who cause of course I could show you a picture books of colors of my seasons I think people think of the relief but.

[01:44:11]
I'm not going to. Write most colors and in you actually if you bring me earlier create hybrid by writing to me write by thing reading by classical genetics I have stock in Monsanto I was one the company's I'm vested and close maybe went bankrupt because they split off the medical to the issue they had and that went to eventually what's called the small must see and then the Pfizer that was good that's like that so it must.

[01:44:47]
In that for the for the chemical division solution went bankrupt this is chemistry just great chemistry classical chemistry. And what were main was the plant to be easy and that they make and do genetic engineering and see. The putting genes to produce new seeds wonderful we will use of Applied Chemistry and Biology to do molecular changes in the plants you know well a fox issue if you if in your in your well yeah but you are No but we could talk for hours on that of course you're very When I grew up in chemistry we were not afraid of chemicals although I knew from my father who was in the fertilizer business things like So if you're a very dangerous moment of course right across I know but of my life but some people didn't know it and it was not known that organic chemicals could be dangerous I've been seen at Georgia Tech that in have decent hoods in the labs and even the new glass right no decent hoods and they have anything of a person that I had heard her talk but nobody knew it was boxing and did I've been so fired and like a life that was known that was toxic they opened the windows that was so that the events of that put in these and when people complain put in these big propellers exchange they blow at you Bunsen burner but they had the building.

[01:46:18]
That was but we didn't know saccharin had been offered for people to take 4 Center years never been tested on people that test can go home and then it didn't kill you that's about all that it. Takes a long time and I know a lot very hard the trauma that markets have another Vioxx now that spit hundreds of millions of dollars test in biology know hundreds of millions of dollars and so most of the money goes in testing.

[01:46:46]
Not long and not sure about anything that. Will work right it's very hard to know all the details you played with your David Lee and I do not I do not use I do not use chemicals on except to coaches seemed to change the doubled the number of genes can go.

[01:47:08]
And from this you can read your. Write reviews classical genetics degree. And when named after you I'll get to name them but I'm name for myself names or family members did you name or family know that the reason is that you know that it is a like women splash and they come in and as they talk about that all day lately.

[01:47:34]
Well I got out. Some of the other side. But when they have a good thing I'm really just a man of true blue but getting close and I have to say for the record that was one of your. You're right and most are in the backyard you have things I.

[01:47:58]
Think you're truly you have some great well we have several 1000 different daily and some pretty. Records We do indeed have swine IP right we do classical bookkeeping which I'm glad you know that people can do it on the computer Well I did some things on the computer but in the computer got old I 1st had i.b.m. computer and you know that the disk was used then won't fit into the new computer anything I had on it I could name in the libraries and the cab kana not one pattern where the information lost I believe in hard copies.

[01:48:37]
Well most archivists are right there with. Special code that can show you a pleasure so far. Nothing fits it's hard to current the program won't work I'll play the desk at the disk but that the machine is the p.c. that some technology changes by the week or mine by the by the working so I believe in hard copy is now but computers are going well as I believe having computers as wonderful and marvelous than most and all this invention of the last century.

[01:49:12]
And as for research for research to me. But for library work you know a lot of chemical abstracts just after the last books of really heavy lifting the about that thing can haul pick one up and you have to go through a whole every year they have but many have to go through the same to 5 years of those things just the lifting.

[01:49:35]
Do you think computer then that I've strikes is Ok to have. No choice of going back and reading the chemical periodicals for yourself in the original languages so that's we had chemistry majors had to take to foreign languages French and German I started. Passing language exams and out there to get my doctor's degree both of those not right do you.

[01:50:05]
Really only scientific have a different kind of a leg I can yeah I could not clean up and could only read Gerdy or something like that type of be like Shakespeare in German it's hard enough in ancient Egypt but you can go back to the time Yes right Ok Rob about.

[01:50:22]
German beer article the last 20 years has been published in English isn't that interesting the way around it right I still read majority but post in English yourself. You speak yes way Ok I sang in my church choir for 35 years and were too old to sing but I mostly just enjoy listening to my play the piano only slightly you get out of that you know that's very difficult very difficult at a price right and it's too much work so I work in the garden you enjoy it and I write to people who can prove really know how to play I think you're a great appreciate your good music class classical music right there when you're.

[01:51:06]
Probably a pretty big reader to love love love to read write so daily lives is a hobby but it gets me out in the yard Lileks I don't play golf I love to look at golf course people look at think this game is silly but just to be a good look at the golf it's a lot of it very much in favor of God So you'll let me tell you about.

[01:51:27]
Athletics the Georgia Tech and universe John I'm not in favor of them as a student I enjoyed going to tech with a wonderful break wonderful in a time for students but I really think it's a mistake the overemphasis Hathaway and university system I do agree that football is a good advertisement for Georgia Tech and might make an impact get some good students that way but in the long run I think it's money thrown away.

[01:51:57]
That it's not it's done to I greatly would favor intramural intramural sports at m.i.t. the faculty voted to abolish all these right and Georgia Tech lived ometer of play football yes one on the basketball would have be very nice but the pick should have this all the facilities they have for student athletics you know to put this myth that you're seeing the conference level where is is a real mistake and one of the last times I was in great feel they had the football players from 10 years before return they were the worst looking group of people physically I've ever seen most I'm a vastly overweight you know they practiced so hard then they suddenly get out and they make enough money they can eat all they want to quit the exercise so that's called hard work and fast but me I'm a lame injured playing football on crutches it is very Now my grandson Jack loves to play football I'm cursed in play football but he's the father and I don't want to play him in college I don't want to play God he most life and University of Georgia Tell me about your.

[01:53:05]
Well John as you know words Georgia Tech has 2 lovely sons. Yes he has. 25 years plays in Brighton. To say John and John Nesbit grow and stay in that Johnson one for my mother's family and Evan Ray growing to name one for the system of race and.

[01:53:33]
Well. Jack is applied to take into universe to Georgia and his father insisted to be a plot. School military will be just a mass system went by but Georgia State College I think it's go. To college and university. Yes I'm drawing right so this is a cap on how to John thanks it would be a good project that's my that's why he wants to go there and that helps I have small classes now Jack has to taught academics He loves to practice football and the camaraderie of his grades being good fine but his idea is that he can make a minuses at his high school without studying so he never studies so I don't know how to study not sure he would feel like at Georgia Tech even the University of Georgia right you might want to go to one of those schools for a year but if you're on a student role why study you know so that they learned very quickly.

[01:54:38]
But it's a shock to the pair as a terrible shock and you almost wish they would take to your right so I think John may be right I sent John Timmer at Oxford the reason is a small school he want to go to University of Georgia cause France will go on but you know I'm done I'm glad you wanted.

[01:55:00]
To go so he so he loved the image I actually loved loved a mirage with him or did particularly like it there again the professor the cat of moments didn't graduate work and so forth while in redox of their own just in the students and you my name and he and I And yes he did to business school he thought I want to be a lawyer he was admitted last Tuesday that year and decided that he won't do what lawyers did.

[01:55:24]
And. That's. Ok Alfred told you that he graduate from Berkeley and biology he worked with the high school and afterwards well then Marion. He probably would like to been event but he wasn't that good a student hard again that's good American hot and then medical school yes is harder than medical school you're absolutely right and so.

[01:55:51]
He. He didn't get any of them worked with and worked with Ed Then he loved animals all they have off and on for with them into the final jam was your yeah Fred lives on the next street and you have your children your brand Right right so Fred is that you work we send us computer school way to learn typing make a living that since biology is b.s. level this almost on non-living.

[01:56:16]
Computers should be very. Important so. It's interesting you're early life your your very early life was almost idyllic your parents and certainly provided well for you and saw that you got the best of everything and then you're young you're young adult life you know tragedy and some heart and all that turned around and I think I've been very very lucky in life to think I was a dog attack at a wonderful time.

[01:56:46]
I'm not sure it would be a factor than the other pressures I put young back when I get tenure not probably not a day and didn't get that grand ice term except as terror and that causes a bad attitude among faculty to. And it's so sad that it is very compressed so it's mean mean.

[01:57:04]
So you were there just at the right time cruising out of there before I got to be an art rock in my marriages and all that you know and lucky with your children your happy to pursue your having the right 3 right and you very well stay very busy so that's you think the that's very nice and you're one of those unique individuals as a rambling wreck from geologists you know from student days right ations days and now a supporter I know right around Sloan which is right you're going to go and give or you give back to George a little bit I can't give much away.

[01:57:36]
You have to say it steadily right steadily given the variable length of. Time my friend so much better give us a line like I'm sure large give us that he went through but if you talk about how much though it might be consistency of it tell me why why does well I hope it'll do some good I mean I enjoy going to tax I hope it will help students.

[01:57:57]
So I don't give that Lexus to Africa really so I think that athletics is a misgiving So I really think that should change but your your reason for giving Now if you want to bring another student along to help them I think that the money will help a little extra things that I don't know what to spend the money on but there are so many things to spend it on right so like just for the little little good right providing for the tackle on association I think it's helped Georgia Tech Yes and we're appreciative right there they are very appreciative of your support it's been a good story last better story than the last time we get it right well then we want sure she would live my worse or she's back enough now that are your record raisers thank you so much for sharing with us it's been a great I kept you from your lunch I feel like it was time well spent for a lot of talk as you can tell.

[01:58:54]
But I detect Professor resists all right if you don't like to talk you're in trouble here in Iraq so that's what they just do the talk talk to students and faculty members Well it's been a pleasure sir and I thank you very much for your time today I learn probably as much from the faculty members at Georgia Tech as I did in graduate school this is they should know that right and they provided a built in one.

[01:59:17]
To further educate me which is a very massive Thanks change so rapidly chemistry if you're not continually being educated when I was an undergrad the instruments that came speed use with the mountain as a main instrument and I'll grant came to the moment we had a refractometer. Liquids and get Been to light rays and polar rim to which was really run go on the more they asked instrument that rotate to being harassed like would you want to about that and when I was in graduate school at mit they found I had a Beckman do you for Tom to this would measure the ultraviolet dips option.

[01:59:58]
I can't see very helpful and they fall I got a professor in who would run an infrared Machine Games knew what to do with and although them are marvelous things to come since. I write anymore spectroscopy It's just marvelous that actually spectroscopy MAAVA things that were used to do against cancer are very classical step but step system you had wealth and they had to make the campaign to believe the structure and they do it by its right fraction and they've been ever do these very complicated molecules like traits right and if we met was one who did the 1st yes isn't that the best.

[02:00:42]
Thank you thank you again for your kind. Of Fun Dr thank you for. Your look at a good brain looking Dylan smile. They have early close the eyes.