This is an oral history interview with Anne Coppage, Mrs. Julian Arr, of Atlanta, Georgia, conducted by Marilyn Summers on March the 11999 at Mrs. Carr's home. Subject of the interview is her life in general and her experiences with the Cherokee Garden Library. 

The interview is being conducted by the Georgia Tech Oral History Program in cooperation with the Atlanta History Center and the Cherokee Garden Library. Mrs. An, if I may, it's so nice of you to welcome us here to your home. And a beautiful, sunny morning in Atlanta. We're blessed with another nice day. And it's so wonderful to be here with you. We're looking forward to hearing your story. Thank you. Thank you. As I said, stories are better. 

If you start at the beginning, I'd like you to tell me a little bit about your parents maybe let's start there. Where were you born? 

A little bit about your parents. 

Well, my father, when he was about 20 years old, started a business down in South Georgia. He had 55.10 cent stores. He was remarkably energetic. 

So he was a retailer that he was a retailer. 

And so one of the towns where he had started one of his stores was Waycross, Georgia in South Georgia. And I was born there, and then mama there, he had met my mother in Barnesville, Georgia. My grandfather was a judge there, a lawyer, and a federal judge. And so they met there and married shortly after. 

And then when we was when he had opened a store in Waycross, Georgia, my mother and he were living there and I was born. 

But shortly thereafter we moved to Atlanta. And so I only think lived in Waycross maybe three months. Oh, not at all. 

So then you were you're a native, you were totally reared here in Atlanta, right? 

And what part of Atlanta? 

Where did you live as a child? 

Where did you go? 

We lived on Brookwood Drive, which is across it's where Peach Tree Street and 75 Cross. It was a street that called Brookwood Drive, and that's where we first lived. 

And you went to elementary school? 

Well across the street on Peach Tree, which is now where Equifax is housed, was Washington Seminary. Oh, yes, we all know about. Did you go to that schools? 

Kindergarten, uh huh. 

And then it was like a K through 12 program for young ladies, right? 

Yes, I was kindergarten, so did my brother. He was a boy, but let they let him in. 

And then I went to Spring Street School, which is now the puppetry artist, was a very well known school. 

So, I went there in the first grade and attended elementary school through there. That's right. 

And then, where did you go to high school then? 

When I at the first year, North Fulton High School opened, which is now the Southern International School. International School. Yeah. I think it's the International School now. 

The first year it was opened, we went there. My brother and I, and then my father, who was in the had opened a candy factory. And when he moved to Atlanta, he sold his five stores and open a candy factory down on Ivy Street. And he decided to make peanut brittle because peanuts were very a profitable industry. Very in very Georgia too. Yes. 

So tell me. It was the Sophie May. Yes. Oh, for heaven's sake that my mother, and he named my mother, was a very good sport. And he named the candy after your mother. What a wonderful drink that must be to be raised up in having a candy factory for a background. Did you eat candy all the time? 

Well, I suppose we did. We had she we had to shell. 

But anyway, so then when he, because of the unfair freight rates that were imposed on the South after the Civil War, he shipped a lot of his candies up east. And he had to pay more than someone who manufactured in the West or in the North or in New England. That was all part of that era. Uh huh. The unfair freight rates. 

My husband, who is a lawyer later became affiliated with Judge Edgar Watkins, who did the work on repealing and getting that off. Yes. 

But before that so my father opened a factory in New Jersey where he shipped, could ship things then without the unfair freight rate. 

Well, he was pretty smart. He found a way to go around that, Yes. 

And then, Judge, did the family have to move to New Jersey? 

So we moved to the Oranges in New Jersey and I went to school of Miss Baird School, EAR D, which is a private school for girls. And I went to high school there. 

And then And when did you get to come back to Atlanta then? 

So then I had grown up with friends here in Atlanta who were urged me to come back and make my debut with them. Oh, how wonderful. 

So, your roots were really here anyway? 

Yes. 

And I had just left, and so they all urged me to come here, and I live with my aunt who lived in Ansley Park, and for three months, then you made your debut for three months, and then it was over World Witness. 

But here, you know, it starts earlier and goes on longer, but any case. 

So, then they urged me to come back and I stayed with my aunt and my cousin Betty, she's now Mrs. Nunley. Betty Nunley and I met on a date. 

I met my husband, Julian Car, who of course was living here in Outlet when he was at Harvard Law School at the time. 

And he had just come back to Atlanta during Christmas vacation and we met and then six months later we married. Oh, you must have fallen in love immediately then, right? 

Right. Yes. That's and we did, and we married. 

I had gone back up to New Jersey at that point, going back to our home there, and we married in July, up in New Jersey, up in New Jersey, actually we married in New York City, in the little church around the corner, which is, which is so famous, it's a famous place to marry. 

So we married with our family there. That was, that was in 1938. You told me it was 61 years ago. Isn't that remarkable? 

Well, you were meant to live in Atlanta. There was no two ways about it. 

Would it would have been horrible if you hadn't come down for your debut, then you wouldn't have met him. That's right. You feel like it's been just terrible. Then he went back up to Boston and he went back to finish his load school. And we lived in Boston for a year, which was a wonderful experience. And then we came back to Atlanta and built a home on Rivers Road. 

First, while the house was being built, my good friend Louise Allen Richardson, she and Ivan had built a house on North Side Drive, just up the street here. And so they rented it to us, our house was being built on. That began a wonderful friendship with Louise. And then we moved into our house on Rivers Road and lived there for a number of years. 

And then my father passed away, and mother was living alone on Vernon Road, not far from where we lived on Rivers Road. And we wanted her to come live with us. 

Alan, my friend, we were playing golf and she says, well, you know, there's a house near me that I've always liked, its gardens. And the house, because it was designed by Philip Shut, who did a lot of classical homes. 

And even though this house is really a New England house with Regency tendencies, with the tres all, I came and we saw this house and moved here. 

You had room for your mother, the mother came, bedroom, downstairs, and living room, which was really like a separate apartment, a little site that worked out very well for you, and we've lived here over 30 years. Over 30 years. The house was designed by Philip. That's right. Just a little different than his other ones. It's a gorgeous house. 

Well, and the thing way Louise said, you must get that house because it has a wonderful garden. 

So, nice and close to her too. And then she and I've always shared, I love for gardening. 

Do you remember when you first began to love gardening? 

When did that occur to you? 

Well, I think when I was a little girl and mother wanted to keep me busy, and she said when I was about six or seven. 

Now you go out in the backyard and let me tell you how to start a garden. 

Oh, so she actually let you do it, and so she said you just take bricks from out and find them in the woods and line up a path and then you plant transplant violets from out in the woods. And foot violets, do it yourself. Garden there. 

So I started, that was the first one I remember. You can remember doing that. 

It gives you a sense of satisfaction to put something in and then see it grow, doesn't it? 

It's creative. And mother wanted to keep me busy. It worked. Worked for the rest of your life? 

It worked right. When you were living in Rivers Rivers Road, did you have a garden there? 

Yes. We had the house we built. We had an opportunity to have a wonderful garden. 

Edith Henderson, who later became a garden writer and a noted designer, came and designed a garden for us. Wonderful. It's there, It's now back. 

Lisa Towers and the magnolias that we planted to shield it in the back of the garden wall are still, isn't that great. It makes you feel really good. I've left something like that. I enjoyed gardening very much from early days. Gardening gives you a wonderful opportunity to express yourself in an artistic way. And just the love of the earth in the grounds. 

When you get involved in your garden planting, do you plan it for all seasons? 

So this is at all times of the year? 

Yeah. 

So that you can make it always be a changing for you. 

And my husband's mother had given us a lot on Rivers Road because her other daughter had a house on Peach Tree Road and she had bought the property. 

My husband's mother had bought the property all the way to Rivers Road where she lived was really where the flower towers I mean, Park place is not flower. Okay. 

So we were given that property and had wonderful trees and were a wooded area. Was Mrs. Carr interested in gardening too? 

Very much so. 

But by then, when my husband father they were from North Carolina originally. My husband's father died when he was about nine and Julian's mother's Julian's sister married Mr. Clark Howell Junior, and then his mother met Mr. Clark Howell Senior. Mother and daughter married father and son, and she moved here. 

So when she moved here, she was then Mrs. Clark Howell. How interesting. Oh my goodness. And everyone had gardens and it was a part of your life? 

Yes. And she had wonderful she had a house in Highlands, North Carolina. Mrs. 

Howell, then my mother in law, wonderful house, One of the first houses built around the Highlands Golf Course. And she built and designed like a Swiss chalet and she loved gardening. And I would go up and visit her and we'd get in her Jeep. I think she had the first Jeep in North Carolina and we'd drive all around with her. 

Tak do you remember at the time when you came here as a young wife and you started to create your own garden space, do you remember that Atlanta was lush with trees at that time? 

Yes, it was very much so in garden clubs. I joined a garden club shortly after I moved here. And which one was? 

It was a Cherokee garden club. 

So do you know how long that's been in existence? 

Since 1927, I think. Ah. And joined it. We joined it, I was a friend of mine, Laura Hill Bolen. 

The first two young members that joined, and we were like 21 years old. Oh boy, and full of ideas. 

And so we learned so much from the older members who had beautiful gardens and treasure that because it gave you contact with older women who loved gardens and enjoyed working in them. Which you might not have had. 

If you have an opportunity without the garden club, I might not have had that opportunity to work with women. Were they generous in sharing? 

Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Sharings. And plants. Plants, very much so. That was a wonderful way to get one interested. Wow, I bet it. I bet it was. 

Even though you were living on Rivers Road, not in this house at that time, you were still very much involved with garden and the garden club and flower shows in those days, which were smaller and really more personal. 

Now, I feel when you say flower show, you're talking like the Southeastern Flower Show? 

It was a Southeastern Flower Show. It was then held in the in the auditorium downtown near Georgia State. The old Civic Auditorium? 

Yes. Yes, the Civic Auditorium. And it was smaller because, of course, Atlanta was smaller. Sure. The idea was the same people Yes. Brought their best things together right. And learned from each other, and it wasn't commercial at all. We didn't have landscape people to design the gardens. It was really, really was your own efforts? 

Yes. Yeah. Thing changes though. It probably wasn't done for any commercial purpose but just for the joy for doing it. The plants. Yeah. And for doing it. 

You said you've been in this house about 30 some years now, right? 

So if this is 99, we're going back to the end of the '60s, then. That's right here. Mm hm. The end of the '60s when you first moved into this house. 

Now, had you started to have your children yet? 

Yes, I had three children, really, when we were on Rivers Road. Our oldest son, Julian Junior, was born in Boston because his father was still in law school. He was born in Boston. And then we came back Atlanta and our second son, James, the oldest son, is Julian Carl the fourth. 

Then our second son, James Cannon, Carl, who was named for Julian's grandfather in North Carolina, Mr. James Cannon. 

And then then Julian, World War Two started my husband, Julian, who had gone to the Virginia Military Academy Institute, Virginia Military Institute. And he had been discharged from service because of hay fever. And they asked him to come up to VMI and teach mathematics when he Tech Mathematics at VMI. He made 100% score on one of the tests. And they had long remembered that. 

So they asked him if he would come back to VMI and teach some of the students. Otc people were of course going off to a. 

So we went back to Boston. And then I became pregnant, pregnant with Beacham Coppage, our third son. Who was named after your father? 

Yeah. 

And then we came back to Atlanta for him to be born after we'd been there a year, Wanted to come back to Atlanta to have him born here. And we lived then after the war effort, you settled back in and car began to practice. He began to practice law here. He went with Judge Edgar Watkins, who was at a law firm. You were pretty busy. You had three little boys. Three little boys fairly close in age, but in those days you had wonderful help. And we had a woman who lived with us, lived in a room in one of a house that we had built. 

And she was marvelous and really looked after the children that we had a nurse, but she looked after the nurse, a man that did the garden. 

And so at that time, I was able to get involved with the community thing, and I joined the junior league and became president. Oh, how wonderful. And that would have been when? 

In the 1950s, yes. 

And then another very good friend of mine, Mary Elizabeth Barge Schroder, was president of the Junior league, and she asked me, this was before I was president, if I would help start a nearly new shop, a thrift shop, as one of the fund raisers for the junior league. At that time, they were doing the Metropolitan Opera. They did the ticket sales and a advertising. And she felt that the Metropolitan Opera might not come to Atlanta forever. 

She was right about that, wasn't she? 

She said, we must get another fund raiser, and she thought of having a thrift shop. We went all over to see other thrift shops in this part of the country and started one. 

So you were pired of getting that and it's still in existence today? 

Much so, yes. And we started down on Tenth Street in a little shoe shop in the back of a shoe shop. And it became so popular, we took over the post office next door. Wow. And it became wonderful. It was a really good idea, was well, it was needed. You know, I think, yeah, it really, you sit, find a need. 

Uh, and then felt that there was a need first to raise money, and then for people who wanted to give their clothes away in the junior league had a lot of women who were stylish and had beautiful clothes. 

And they were delighted to have, have a good source for it and know that it was going for a good cause. 

Yes, that was a wonderful civic experience for you and you were encouraged by doing that, Being well, I think the Junior League is wonderful in training young women how to start an organization or how to give to the community. 

And that helped me very much when I started the garden library, because you knew how to set up a staff or how to set up a committee that could carry it on. And I think I gained a great deal from being involved in Atlanta Junior. It was a good foundation for you then? 

Yes, it was. 

What other organizations before we get into the library besides Junior, what else would you became president of the Atlanta Opera Guild here? 

Oh, how wonderful. And that was interesting experience too, because it was at the time that Mr. Bing, who was director of the Metropolitan Opera, we're talking about Mr. Rudolph being Mr. Rudolph, you remember, and Mr. Francis Robinson, who was a wonderful personality. 

And they came to Atlanta every year and had the Piedmont Driving Club and the Capitol City Club had wonderful parties after the opera. It was the social event for Atlanta, it was in those days. 

Even though today it still is, it's becoming more and more so now, there was a period of a dry period there when it was when the mint stopped coming and we didn't have it. Right. And it was held at the Fox Theater, was just a wonderful event in Atlanta. It was only for about three days in the beginning, and I think they expanded it to a week. 

So that was another very good experience and Joe would know and Mr. Bing, who was quite a character. And did you get to meet some of the wonderful performers? 

Singers? 

We did. The singers, we'd all meet them in the parties afterwards. And every year, we had an opera gil luncheon, which used to be held at the Biltmore Hotel. The singers would sing. It was a wonderful event. Oh, I'm sure, I'm sure it was. There was something bigger than life about the opera in those days. It was it was using exciting. I think they're trying to to keep that going on the board. They sold an older member. 

Well, as a season ticket holder. I'm very happy that you were there to make it happen. Yes. You were still coming? 

Yes. I think it's a wonderful thing to happen. Atlanta. Mm. Yeah. I enjoy it very well. We also, the junior league sold the tickets in those days. Really? 

And that was before ticket master and all that other things. Yes. And we sold the ticket. 

We had a rooms up in the top of the Fox Theater behind the stage, and the Junior league sold all the tickets. 

And I was at one point, chairman, there's so many things, community service things that people are unaware of. They think that it just happens. 

And it doesn't just happen? 

No, it does happen in the junior league in the Metropolitan had had a Metropolitan facility here that was civic leaders in Atlanta, Mr. Alfred Kennedy and others. 

Now Mr. Edges went on to be head of that, but they needed volunteers. They could not Jiu Junior League provided the volunteers at that point for that. 

They were given the privilege of publishing the opera program, and that's where they made the money from the opera program. Sure, sure. Everybody taking care of everyone else to make the community function, which is a wonderful thing. 

You were very much involved in community, very much a volunteer, right? 

Giving your time for the I had very good help with my children. 

So you were able to do that? 

Yes. Yeah. 

How did you come about how did you get the idea of even beginning a library? 

Where did that come from? 

Well, when the Atlanta Historical Society wanted to expand its facilities, it had originally the offices, the staff at the Historical Society and the archives at Swan House. The archives were in the basement and they had made it so it was the humidity was all right. And upstairs was the Franklin Garrett was the director and they had offices upstairs. 

So is this before we were doing tours there or anything? 

Yes, it was. 

It was I had become very interested in the historical society and they wanted to build a new building to house the archives. And the staff of that didn't take them out of Swan House because they were expanding. They were going to build a modern building on the grounds of the Swan House. 

Louise Allen and Laura Darcy and myself thought we'd go up to Nashville because they had built a botanic hall on the grounds of Cheatwood, which is their big historic house, classical house. We were interested how a modern building would look on the grounds of a classical home. We went up in the first place, we went to was their botanic hall, and I saw a garden library. I'd never seen one before. I didn't imagine such a thing existed. 

And I said to Louise and Laura, you go on, I'm going to stay here And I was fascinated with what they had. They had a few early books and all the magazines, gardening magazines they subscribed to. 

So, it was the first time you had ever seen all this collected in one place? 

Yes. 

Is that where the idea said I want one of these for? 

Well, I just began thinking about it and came back to a Luda and went to the public libraries, and they had very few garden books. Was before the botanical garden had started. 

At the same time, our Garden Club was starting looking for a new project to do that might include preservation. 

I suggested the garden library to them, like the idea, it was a new one and would give us an opportunity for people who were moving from big houses to apartments had extra books, and they wanted to have a place to put them in. We thought, well, this would be a great opportunity. They Prove the idea. And it was also providential that the historical society new building was started. Dr. 

William Presley was the director, head of it, who was a man with great foresight because of course he started the Westminster Schools. I asked if maybe we might have one of their rooms to put a garden library in. There were 27 gardens clubs that maintained the grounds at that time. At the History Center. At the History Center, they felt that would be a good place to have a garden library. Mrs. Carr, tell me a little bit about the building then that they were going to build. 

Well, they wanted archives that would be humidified and be in proper conditions for the archives to house its books and its records and for the staff to be located there. 

And Walter Macklreath, back in the early days when the historical society was started, it was on first, I think, at the old Biltmore Hotel, and then moved on to a wonderful house, beautiful house on Peach Street Road. And Clwreath left his stock in his company, the Life of Georgia to the historical society. 

But then when you must get someone from the historical society to tell you more about it. 

But then they moved out to bought the property of Mrs. Edward. In which house? 

Swan House and 32 acres. 

They used a lot of the Clath funds to build the historical society, the archival building naming it that was a way of recognizing it. 

So they recognize it, called it Clwreath Hall, honoring Mr. Maclreath. That's wonderful. And they said, okay, you can have a little space of this. Yes. Dr. William Presley, who I was on the board at that point. 

And I went to him and asked him if we could house the garden library there because of all the garden clubs that maintain the property. When they bought the property, they had 28 garden clubs to keep up the grounds. 

So did everybody take a section? 

Everybody a section. Oh, how wonderful. And so these were garden clubs from all over the city at Yes. Mostly in the Northern community. Northwestern community. He agreed. We went to the garden club and presented it to them that they had agreed to do this. 

So now you had an idea and a space to put the idea in. Exactly. And they agreed they would fund in the beginning. Didn't realize that it would take much money because they have never charged us rent. We didn't have a librarian and it was all done by volunteers. Really didn't need much money and books were given to us. 

How did that start? 

I mean, did you advertise it just through members or how did people We just threw the members and then does anyone have any gardening materials they want to share? 

And then they did. 

Some of the members then would give us their books and we'd find out when someone was moving or had passed on and we'd get their books. We started, it was an informal arrangement. 

Inform everybody just bringing their things in and then how about indexing it or locking it that we came later. 

But in the beginning, we decided to have a board of directors that would help us. 

Our first thought was to not only have garden club members, Cherokee Garden Club members, but to have those in the community that were interested in preserving. 

So when you your bylaws. Yes. We wanted to have community members. 

For instance, we had Jane, who was on the board of the Garden Conservancy and was involved in saving Obo Island off the coast of Georgia. This was very wise. 

And then we had Florence Griffin, who was just a warehouse of knowledge and she was restoring the Tully Smith garden. At that point, the 1840s farmhouse is on the property of the Historical Society. Trying to think. We had many other Dr. Hubert Owens, who was head of the Land Department, Landscape Design Department at Georgia Tech. I mean at the University of Georgia. And then we had Helen Martini, who was a librarian at Georgia Tech, to come on board. Oh, so you really had wise choices there. We had people, wonderful people. 

And then we had Francis Hargret who knew a lot about old books or new books and was a wonderful gardener. 

And we had several marvelous community people that came on our board and helped us to focus on what we were going to do. 

Helen Martini, particularly as being the librarian at Georgia Tech, we sort didn't know what we had gotten into as you know. And you might have been more cautious, but Right. And Helen Martinez said, in order to collect books, you must focus on the South. Otherwise you'll get off into too many areas, you'll be overwhelmed. She gave us that direction from her experience at the Georgia Tech. That's wonderful. And then you had you started accumulating things. Were you surprised as the things were coming in? 

Yes, we were surprised and delighted. 

But our bookcases weren't filled and we'd turn the books around and open them up so that show you were literally trying to make it look really good. Took turns going over there and staffing it. Oh, yes, we all went and staffed right from the beginning. Right from the beginning, we staffed it. Okay. 

And you were open to the public, right? 

From the open to the public because the historical society, we would where their library and archives were and we had the same policy that they had of just a reading library and not a lending library. 

So people came in and looked at the materials and would do their studies there. And the staff at the Historical Society were wonderfully supports us, Judge. 

So it was a pretty good feeling, wasn't it? 

It was, And then after about a year, Francis Hart and Florence Griffin said, you know, there's a woman up in New Jersey, Elizabeth Woodburn, who has this terrific collection of American horticulture books, the first 11634, there are 200 books. And it would be a wonderful way to start, give a focus to the library of what to collect. And so we contacted Mrs. Woodburn and several of us went up to see the collection. And then we began raising the money. And she had the collection for sale. She had the collection for sale. It was $25,000 And for Garden Club, oh boy, we thought we can't do it. 

But then on our board member of the Garden Club was Mary Morrison. And she was married to Howard Morrison whose mother was Elaine. And there's Elaine Foundation. Mills Lane in Savanna has a foundation. 

She said, I think we can get the foundation to give us a start of $10,000 With that in mind, we wrote to all the garden clubs. They were around 100, and asked them for contributions. To start this collection, we wrote to foundations. 

Dan Black, whose wife, Jane Black, was in the Garden Club, put us in touch with foundations that he knew about through the trust company of Georgia. And I went to my son, Beecham, who was then had just saved the fox, with others of course. And I asked him how you write grants and he helped me write grants. Yes. 

So we were all amateurs. We raised $30,000 How wonderful the Smithsonian Institute wanted this collection. 

But Mrs. Woodburn said the south is where agriculture began. There were so many gardeners there. And it belongs in the lower south, not Washington, DC, even though that's the south. 

And they would put it in their basement and under lock and key, and we want Elizabeth Woodman said, I want it somewhere it'll be used high. Wonderful. She waited, and the man, she gave you time to raise the money, and we did. In six months, she was going to give us a year. When the collection came, she came to it loud, talked, she got to see where it was going to be. 

Then she became such an wonderful adviser to us because she suggested we join the American Botanical Garden Society Botanical Garden Organization. 

So we would go to the meetings, the Botanical Library Association and learn about how to run a library. 

And then we became Florence Griffin and I both were on the board of the Southern Garden History Society. 

So you were becoming experts. 

So we were learning through Elizabeth Wood Beans, advice and guidance. 

And she would, and I think not just to sell books, but she would say, you need a certain book in your collection to round it out. And she put us on to Southern Gardeners, and then she said, you must collect. Early seed catalogs because they are very important. We began doing that, right, was on the board there. 

And I went down to Hastings when they had sold their business to someone else, and we asked them if we could have all their old seed catalogs. 

Well, we went with our boxes. 

And the way when Hastings before it moved down on Marietta Street, where it was, we got every seed catalog from Hastings, which started in 18 93 in Florida before it moved to Atlanta, you had them from the beach. 

So we had that and then we began collecting other seed catalogs. 

That was the Augusta National Golf Course, was originally the grounds for Burman's Nursery, which was one of the first nurseries in the South. We then began to collect catalogs from the band. Really one of the first nurseries in this country. 

Isn't that remarkable? 

We found that researchers who are trying to restore old gardens, that's where they go first to see what was planted. To see what was there? 

Yeah. This began in 1973. 

Well, we began talking about it was approved in 73. Okay. When did it actually when were you And then we opened in 1975. And by the time you open, you had acquired enough to at least open to many. 

But some after we got the wooden collection and we really knew where to go, that put you on the map, saving not only the new books that came out, but searching for the early books that would be preserved. 

We look upon it not only as a library for those who do research, but as a preservation facility to preserve these books. 

And I was given awards from the Garden Club of America, which the Cherokee Garden Club is a member of for preservation, which was equally important, which is what they saw is what we were doing as preserving these old books, how much better it is that they're preserved and used than as you say, put into some basement archive where no one can ever get at it. Right. 

So anyone can come and look at these wonderful things. Besides the actual books and the logs, you also have botanical prints. 

We have some, but not too many because I know Elizabeth Woodburn felt very strongly that one of the reasons to preserve these books is that book dealers would go and buy old books. They would tell them up and sell the prints. Exactly. That's exactly what they do. 

It's a very lucrative market and they would sell it for much more than they paid for the books that has been. They've destroyed so many books doing that. That's exactly what they do. 

They buy them and separate them and frame them and sell them for astronomical amounts? 

Yes, we have had some of the books photographed and will sell sell copies of the photographs, but we haven't torn up any of the books. No, of course not. 

These old books, we might say the prints from them are very often hand colored, so they're very wonderful. Very often the authors themselves would color the books, so they are wonderful treasures. Wonderful. Mrs. Woodburn had spent a lifetime accumulating the books that she had. Yes, she had. It was not just the author of the book because there were a lot of books written. 

But it was the one that were important, the ones that were important. 

So she called them so that it was a wonderful step. 

And I know we felt like, well, maybe in the beginning her saying that the Smithsonian want, it might be something to urge us to buy them. 

But later the man who was head of the Smithsonian came to Atlanta and did research on these books. And he said, this is the collection I wanted. Oh, so you know for a fact that you went out over Hercules more or less? 

Yes. 

Well, it was really Miss Woodward's feeling about the South. Great. She ended up being very happy they were here. Oh, yes. See, she was, she was happy with those of that were running the library. She felt we were energetic women and devoted to what we were doing. 

For instance, and I don't want to say anything against the Botanical Hall at Nashville, but they found they had needed that room for something else. And the garden library is no more really, I was put in a small, sorry, not convenient anymore. 

So we feel that what we've done that can never happen with this library. 

We have a wonderful board of directors, and those in the library, in the garden club members have dedicated themselves to making it. Wonderful. 

And I feel that we've had that kind of support from the community, as well as from our Garden Club members. Mrs. 

Karr, where at what point in time did you feel like it was really successful? 

We're still doing that. We're ensuring its future. We're still by 1975 or so. When did you actually move into It was 75. 75 when you moved in there? 

Yes. Can you imagine how did you feel? 

Didn't feel wonderful. It was wonderful. 

But of course, anything you do, you're so busy, you don't you didn't stop and reflect, you don't think about it. It's always been a new challenge and Yes. And then, are you pleased with how it's growing? 

Oh, wonderfully. 

And those who have been head of the garden library, the garden club members that have been heads of it have been wonderful. 

As well as those who work there that have had various talents that have contributed to it, that have made it what it is. You have an acquisition committee. The acquisitions committee has been remarkable, and that was so important to have acquisitions. And we have now Mr. Jim Cochran, who is not only on the staff or one of the officers, Robert and Company. 

He teaches the history of landscape architecture at Georgia State Studies there at the library almost every Saturday. He has a great deal, he's in touch with people all over the state. 

Was responsible for our getting the Calloway Collection, which was another big **** me about the Callaway Collection. 

Well, Jim Cochran came to some of us and said, you know, I've been down there because he was, his firm was doing some work there. 

And I was in the board room and saw the wonderful early books they have, and they're just on a shelf in the bird board room. 

Louise Allen who went with us because she's friends of the family, Florence Griffin, who knows old books. Jim drove us down there and we met with Bo Calloway, who now is head of the Callaway Gardens. He heard that we would look after them and we would have a facility where they'd be better used. They agreed to let them on permanent loan with us. How wonderful you didn't even have to buy them. Then you have to permanent loan where he knows they'll be preserved and well used and well cared for. 

Yes, it is a wonderful, and of course, Callaway Gardens has become famous all over the world, so it's wonderful to have that as a resource here. 

Right? 

There's no such thing as too much in the library, is there? 

Well, now that we expanded, they gave us another room, and then they expanded that room. And now they've given us another room to put our collection in. Because we've gotten other marvelous collections. And I hope Mr. Carran, you will interview him and he'll tell you about them. 

Now they're going to build a new library and archives. 

The library actually will come up on the first floor of Macklwreath Hall and there will be their research library and the collections of Franklin Garrett and others, private collections. And the garden library has been given the largest space other than their own private collection. We're looking forward to that. 

That must give you a great deal of satisfaction to know that it's insured for years to come Exactly prominent and the historical society is very proud to have that there. 

Because of its historical value, we would just, oh, you had modern books, perhaps they wouldn't be so interested, but because we are collecting rare early books. 

Well, and people need to learn from those, right? 

To learn from them in anything. 

If you don't look back at the history exactly, you're missing a big part of what it is. 

So it's very important to go back and look. 

It's kind of neat to think that there's young women coming along who are interested in gardening, who are going to come there and enjoy the fruits of your labor, right? 

And then we have themselves, people with their own talents. 

For instance, Louise Gunn, who is in, at that garden club, is very good at organizing things and knowing how to have the library run in a proper way. 

She has been so helpful to us as has right, who's been acquisitions and everybody doing their piece to function. Some years ago you actually hired a librarian. We did then. 

After we realized we needed to catalog the books, at some point in time you had enough to do The Garden Club of Americas headquarters is in New York City, and they have a library. 

Went up to visit at one point and they had wonderful old books, but they were just in the cabinet, not cataloged all, t really. It made us realize that we needed to catalog these books. It's so important. 

We had several wonderful librarians who have come in to catalogue the books and keep track of it for you. And Landfall is our current librarian. 

An Salter who runs the major library and archives for the historical side, has been so helpful to us as her staff. Do you enjoy going there now today? 

Oh, go there. Still enjoy being there? 

Yes. 

Are you pleased with the space that's been created out of your idea? 

Well, I'm I'm pleased with those who are running the library. 

That's the point that I feel so grateful for those who now in charge of Pat Harret who is the head of it. 

And that was her mother Francis Hart, who knew about the woodwind collection and that marvelous, so it's coming down from another generation. Mother in law today, gardening is, it's not just a trend, it's very much a passion. 

It's very important here in Atlanta where we're losing so much of our vegetation, so many trees are going away all the time. And everyone says we need to do something about it. 

And yet it doesn't happen, does it? 

Certainly people who have been here for many years look back and remember that the canopy is just not there the way it was. And that gardening is so important to the community. We know this won't go away. It's not just a trend, it's an important thing. 

Do you support the botanical garden in any way? 

Is there any connection between that? 

Well, we do. 

Our Garden Club has, has started one of the garden funded one of the gardens over the botanical garden. 

When it was first conceived, they had committees that would, would do research to see where they were going to locate the garden, the botanical garden. And I remember I was on one of those committees at one point. 

And we thought about going out to Fern Bank and for one place, and felt that that was really under the Dekalb System, which it is, yeah. And so we then decided that Piedmont Park would be a very logical place to go to. 

But we have in the beginning, when we had duplicate books and they needed books shared, we gave them any of our duplicates. 

So you have a very good cooperative relationship with them then? 

We certainly do, and you've probably enjoyed their growth. Oh, and of course, they've been wonderful. 

And I know that, I guess over the last several years, the Southeastern Flower Show has really been a fundraiser for the botanical garden. That's right. The expansion and everything. 

And Cherokee Garden Club is one of the clubs that participate in that, coming together to raise money for it. 

So you take a lot of pride in each other. I'm sure the botanical garden people are thrilled to death that there is a Cherokee. They have a library. They started one too, and we have talked to their librarian. 

What's different is that we offer security for these early books when they have a wonderful collection of current books. 

But it's not a competition for sure. It's different, it's definitely a focus. Constantly, books are constantly being acquired. There's always new material. New old material, shall we say. Someone has to be alert. That's Florence Griffin and Jim Cothronfulos out there. 

Huh? 

Jim Cochran is just knows what's going on and he alerts us to it through Jim and Florence and other members of our board. We've gotten wonderful collections. Does Cherokee Garden Library constantly fund raise to Yes. 

An ongoing thing? 

We have to continue because we're expanding and we want to when the library expands, And we have had wonderful benefactors who each year give to us. 

And do you have some sort of event that raises money for it? 

We don't have a bench, but we do send out a letter every year. And we contact so you send out the foundation to let them know what we're doing. And you don't have to write grants anymore, do you? 

Mrs. Art? 

Somebody else to do that now? 

Well, no. We're all very much a part in doing that and going to those who might be interested. Tell me about your garden today. Your own garden. 

Well, has it benefited from the library, from you being involved at this level? 

Yes, it has. And there was a book recently published about gardens all over the country. A woman wrote a book about women. It's called Earth on Her Hands, and it's by Akana Cena. And she came to Atlanta about three years ago and photographed my garden. Let me hold this up. And also, can you focus on who's Earth on her hands? 

Very much a woman's thing. And then the cover is your garden? 

Yes. It's it had to be spring shot because we've got two. And then my next door neighbor, Louise Allen, her garden is in there. And you two were selected from the Atlanta area to be featured? 

Yes. Mm hm. And this is a very popular book. This is modern. And I think it is in its third printing now. Oh, how wonderful. And I hope there's a copy of it in the Cherokee Garden Library. Yes, there is a copy there. I hope you signed the copy That's there isn't. 

How much change is that made if people come to want to see your garden because of this exposure? 

Well, it's really my garden has been opened to raise money for the botanical garden. You've been on the tour and I've been on the tour and for other events. 

The Garden Club, when it raises money for its own events, sometimes we'll have a tour to come through here for the. 

But no, I haven't. 

How much time do you get to spend in your garden? 

Well, I spend I have a wonderful man who comes and helps me. He's been with me as long as we've been in the house. Really. You were so fortunate to be somebody is you is car. 

Do you enjoy your own garden? 

We were just talking about the fact that you have somebody you've had for years that comes back and helps you with it. 

Do you have opportunities to share that garden with your family, your children? 

Grandchildren? 

Yes. My grandchildren. They all enjoy the gardens and they bring their children over to play. 

That gives a feeling that we're doing something that matters when they come and they enjoy the gardens. And you're passing on this love that apple trees and fruit trees that they love to climb. I've had one person who's now ahead of Dumbarton Oaks Gardens that came. 

It was Barence Griffin's daughter in law, and she came and helped me so much with planting the garden. She did it would get in and plant herself. And she brought her three children with her and they would enjoy climbing the trees. And we have a tennis court. And our sons and my grandchildren have all come to play tennis. 

And they, even though I have one daughter, granddaughter who is a artist and she lived in our garage apartment for a number of years and her name is Carolyn Carr and she's done wonderful paintings and she always says that what inspired her was living here and painting in our garden. 

So she has painted your garden Well, she painted really not necessarily the garden, but in the garden, but in the garden. And made her feel creative. Yes. And then and no, and then you have eight grandchildren. Eight grandchildren and three great, great grandchildren. 

So you've watched these generations come in here and playing tennis or coming in in part of being part of what we have here. Wonderful thing, isn't it, to be able to share. They have one great grandson have an east egg hunt here on East. We've done that several times. That's fun too too. 

When you look back on this project that came from an idea that you had when you visited Cheekwoodmhmm. 

You mentioned to me that didn't happen by just you're having the idea that there were so many people that helped you. 

Did you want to talk about, let us know, some of those people that you're so indebted to, as you said, for helping you create your idea, make your idea come to life. It's a long list, but there were people you wanted to include. 

I think about in the early days when we really it was critical for the critical, and we didn't have money to do various things. And we had, for instance, we had someone, Mr. 

Duggan, Jane Duggan, and her husband was had a a firm that did that Would a firm that did the landscape work or No, he he he he he did the I'm looking to see but he did our Can we start over? 

Sure. Okay. 

All of a sudden Tell me about some of the other people or other needs that you had when the library was coming together. 

Well, we had so much of kind of the nitty gritty of what needed to be done. And we had Jane Duggan, whose husband had accountant firm, so every year he edited books. And then we had husbands who would do set up by laws for us. And that was extremely helpful. 

So all professional services came through the volunteers, either them or their husband. And then those who financially took interest in and supported support Mrs. more. 

When her husband sold her business, she came to us and said, I would like to make a sizable donation to you. 

You haven't come to me, but I know what you're doing and I want to make isn't that great? 

I unsolicited testimonials. It must have warmed your heart to know that there was that interest in it today. Back on it. You really appreciate all that? 

Yes, we have many. You really couldn't name them. 

All those that we've had who've been head of the library and who have come on to be head of the acquisitions, or to go down to the library and do the work itself to help our librarian, our new members go and help our librarian, They must do certain amount of work in the library. This is wonderful. 

You're propagating the things you learned in the early community Work about giving women an opportunity to give to the community because it gives back so much to them. 

All of these people, whether we name them or not, know what they did and know that they were an integral part of making a success out of the Cherokee Garden Library. A success that will be here for your great greats and your great, great greats. 

But we feel comfortable because it's not like, for instance, that cheek wood where they didn't have a committee or board members that really kept it going on. Our board members have changed and we've gotten landscape architects to come on it. And people who design gardens, all of these things, will ensure that it'll be there for the future. Yes. Thank you very much for this. That has to be the most important feeling for you knowing that you've ensured it for the future. Exactly, Mrs. Carr, we've certainly enjoyed coming to your beautiful home and your beautiful garden. Thank you today to record this for the Cherokee Garden Library. Thank you so much for sharing it. I said, I think you're an angel to their library, just as you have a little angel in your garden. We thank you for sharing it with us today. Thank you for coming. You've done us a great service. It's a pleasure.