[MUSIC PLAYING] (SINGING) Lighten up, lighten up, lighten up, lighten up, lighten up, lighten up, lighten up-- CHARLIE BENNETT: He was the most deadpan, morose, happy person talking about the job. No vocational awe whatsoever. Delight in the actual work and silliness of the job. WENDY HAGENMAIER: Oh, man. I'm excited for this. [MUSIC - TELEVISION, "FRICTION"] CHARLIE BENNETT: You are listening to WREK Atlanta, and this is Lost in the Stacks, the research-library rock 'n' roll radio show. I'm Charlie Bennett-- with half a voice-- in the virtual studio with Wendy Hagenmaier and Fred Rascoe. Each week on Lost in the Stacks, we pick a theme and then use it to create a mix of music and library talk. Whichever you are here for, we hope you dig it. WENDY HAGENMAIER: That's right, Charlie. Today's show is called-- wait, what's the title again? CHARLIE BENNETT: It should be right there, I think. FRED RASCOE: You did open the script file for the show, right? WENDY HAGENMAIER: Look, Charlie, Fred, I'm really sorry. I just-- I got to confess-- FRED RASCOE: Uh-oh. CHARLIE BENNETT: What's going on? FRED RASCOE: You OK? WENDY HAGENMAIER: It's just-- after the past year and however long of global pandemic and systemic inequity and climate catastrophe, I just can't seem to feel it anymore. FRED RASCOE: Feel what, exactly? WENDY HAGENMAIER: I don't know. The magic, I guess. That special Lost in the Stacks feeling you get at the start of every show. FRED RASCOE: Sounds like you just need a little motivation. Something to get fired up about. Some inspiration. Charlie, help me out here. You got any ideas? CHARLIE BENNETT: Well, I mean, I can definitely relate to the not being in the studio and not getting that charge when we start, but-- OK, I got it. Everybody, buckle up. We are going to take a voyage to-- [CHIMES TINKLING] ALL: The library. WENDY HAGENMAIER: Uh, Charlie, I don't know if this is such a good idea. FRED RASCOE: Yeah, where are you taking us, exactly? CHARLIE BENNETT: OK, listen. Just bear with me. Be with me now. Libraryland is not a place-- it's a state of mind. It's that mental zone where we can actually marvel at all of the awesome, good, trouble-making [BLEEP] that library folk are up to. FRED RASCOE: Oh, Charlie said [BLEEP]. WENDY HAGENMAIER: I'm sold. Let's go. FRED RASCOE: Our songs today are about inspiration coming from many places, the possibilities that reveal themselves when inspiration hits, and magical wonder. Because, after all, this is a magical episode. So let's start with "Magic" by The Cars, right here on Lost in the Stacks. [MUSIC - THE CARS, "MAGIC"] This is Lost in the Stacks, and today's show is called "Libraryland Inspiration." We're talking about projects or people in Libraryland that are keeping us inspired right now. Charlie, we're going to start with you. Tell us about what's inspiring you in the library world. CHARLIE BENNETT: So I had reason to check out Colorado College. They are hiring a university librarian for the first time, like a running-the-whole-show kind of thing-- an admin job, a very much strategic job. And it just sort of caught my eye when it came by, and I went digging into it because Amit went off and got that new job, and it feels like there's a lot of folks who are being put in these positions of imagineering, right? A lot more, like, wither libraries. And I always liked that. I also like to make fun of those positions because sometimes, it's, the head librarian will guide the library through the wilds and save us all, you know? Like, yeah, good luck on that. But then I found something at Colorado College, which was super cool, library-particular, and had nothing to do with that job. The Tutt Library at Colorado College, which is a small liberal arts college in Colorado Springs-- they have a press. And I don't mean an academic press. They have a letterpress print shop that's part of the library organization. "The press--" I'm reading their mission. "The press at Colorado College is a letterpress and book arts studio dedicated to education through the arts and histories of the book. It's interdisciplinary, imaginative, and creative. They make books, prints, they teach people how to make books and prints, and then do other educational stuff to broaden and contextualize those activities. I mean, I assume they go into classes, right? Like we've seen our colleague Alison Volk do here, bringing in printmakers or bookmakers to kind of enter into the material space of these classes. And then the press has two big research questions. What is the role of a letterpress studio at a small liberal arts college in the Rocky Mountains-- which is exactly what they are? How can their work utilize the strengths of immersive teaching on the block plan? What's the block plan, you might ask? Which is what I asked myself. Well, this college also does this thing where you only take one class at a time. They do two- or three-week periods where teachers teach one class and students take one class in a big block all at once. So first off, you've got this small part of the library organization, which is kind of its own thing-- its own little pirate ship doing its stuff that's about material pedagogy-- about a sort of messy, physical part of education that then makes its way into classrooms. And then the classes themselves are these sort of intense retreats-- intellectual retreats-- as opposed to, well, I got math at 9:00, and then I got to get to my English 1101. And I was just sort of delighted by the vibe of everything there. FRED RASCOE: So it's like the anticipation of something new. And the anticipation of something new led you to it. You were looking around, you were thinking about other people that are moving on, doing different things in their careers, and you, exploring different libraries kind of in that mindset. CHARLIE BENNETT: Yeah. FRED RASCOE: And you found something. CHARLIE BENNETT: There's been this flood of jobs. The library landscape is being transformed by all of these new jobs popping up that are being reinvented. FRED RASCOE: Do you want to create a letterpress experience? CHARLIE BENNETT: Oh my God, every moment. At all times. I want one right here, right behind me in my office. Yeah, man. No, I'm totally into that. I don't know if we could justify it. You know, Georgia Tech has quite a lot of, like, ROI questions. But yeah, ever since Fireproof Press was doing record jackets, there was a letterpress that did, like, all of the June of '44 and Rachel's record jackets. I've just been fascinated ever since. OK, so that's one big thing. And Wendy, you wanted two. WENDY HAGENMAIER: That's right. CHARLIE BENNETT: So here's my other one-- and this one's a little more on-brand, I think. I've noticed that there's been a lot more sort of acceptance of the inability for us to do things the way we used to do them. The library world is in an extraordinary crisis. And it's not existential. It's not philosophical. It's literally jobs and unions and pay and taxes and our ability to continue. And I think, over the past few years, it's become very clear to a lot of people that things cannot stay the way they used to be. And I think that, in that moment, there's actually a lot of magic that can happen. Because when you're trying to get things back to regular, when you're trying to keep things on track, it can keep you from doing innovative or simply wonderful things. But I don't think people imagine that we're going to get back to normal anymore, and despite the sadness of that, it's a remarkable freedom. It's not exactly "nothing left to lose," but it's sort of "the only way out is through." And so that sadness has given me a lot of joy-- maybe paradoxical joy? FRED RASCOE: That ended with a question mark. CHARLIE BENNETT: It did. I kind of don't-- I feel like, oh, maybe I've taken away a little bit from the idea of the show, but I've also taken away all of the time in this segment, so-- WENDY HAGENMAIER: Can I ask one question, Charlie? CHARLIE BENNETT: Go for it. WENDY HAGENMAIER: Do you feel like part of moving through and doing things a different way is doing them via letterpress? Is there a connection between your second inspiration and your first? CHARLIE BENNETT: You know, the only connection is that they are at odds with each other. Letterpress is an old form. I mean, printing has been around forever. That's not a new way of doing things. But it is sort of new to now to use that material practice-- letterpress to interrogate the world as it is now. So I could go either way on it, Wendy. It really just depends on what we're arguing. This is Lost in the Stacks. We'll be back with more library talk after a music set. WENDY HAGENMAIER: File this set under PQ2338.L63. [MUSIC - TOADIES, "RATTLER'S REVIVAL"] CHARLIE BENNETT: You just heard "It's Impossible" by Jennifer Lara, and before that, "Rattlers Revival" by Toadies-- songs about envisioning what great things might be possible. [MUSIC PLAYING] WENDY HAGENMAIER: This is Lost in the Stacks, and today's show is called "Libraryland Inspiration." In the last segment, we heard what's inspiring Charlie. Fred, your turn. What is going on in your corner of the library universe? FRED RASCOE: I have to admit that I agonized about this question when we were preparing the show. And I had a few things that I wanted to talk about, but I've got to pivot because, this morning, I got some news from a former co-worker at my previous job in Tennessee at the Arnold Engineering Development Center. And a previous patron that I often work closely with-- one of the engineers there-- passed away, and I literally just learned this about 30 minutes before coming to the show. He was a brilliant engineer. Whenever I had to work with him, answer a reference question for him, do some work to help him out, I really enjoyed coming to work. I knew that he would ask interesting questions, ask me to dig into-- we have a big, technical report archives. He would ask me to dig into that and find some interesting things. I would digitize things for him. And those things that I'd found that were like 50 years old ended up going into DTIC, which is the Defense Technical Information Center, which is where a lot of Department of Defense reports go. And they hadn't been digitized until I, in helping him digitize them and then passed them on to DTIC so that other people could access them-- he was always so appreciative of the help and wanted to share with me the engineering knowledge that he had. He was very interested in-- he did a lot of work in hypersonics and how air works at really high elevations. One of the things that I really remember about him-- when I told him I was taking the job at Georgia Tech, he said, oh, academics-- get ready to deal with a lot of egos. [LAUGHTER] And he wanted to take me to lunch as kind of a going-away celebration, I guess. And I said, OK, so, do we meet at the restaurant or something? He said, no, no, I'll come and pick you up. He was paraplegic. He was confined to a wheelchair. And so when he called and said, yeah, let's go to lunch, and I said, hey, let's go. Are we meeting there? Are you taking a shuttle, or-- He was like, no, I'll pick you up. And I thought, OK, well, he's taking the shuttle, and we're going to ride in the shuttle with him. And he said, no, I'll be in the brown Oldsmobile out front. [LAUGHTER] And so I go downstairs, and there he is behind the wheel of this brown Oldsmobile. It had been modified. He can push a gas pedal with his thumb and the brake with his other thumb. I didn't even know that such things existed. [LAUGHS] WENDY HAGENMAIER: Engineers. FRED RASCOE: Yeah, engineers do things like that. One of the things that he said to me at some point in my time there-- he said engineers aren't boring. They're great. They love to burn stuff and break things. Don't ever say that engineers are boring. I thought about all these things this morning when I learned that he had passed away at age 72. And I regret not keeping in touch with him after I left and letting him know that working with him and answering-- doing library stuff for him was a really great joy in my life. It was fun to come to work on those days. So I really wanted to talk about that. CHARLIE BENNETT: Can you bring any of that to your job now, or is that going to have to be just a memory of good stuff? FRED RASCOE: I guess I think about it because now the things that I look forward to-- not to be pandering, but I think I've mentioned on the show many times that this is like one of the best things about working at the Georgia Tech Library-- working on this show. People that-- CHARLIE BENNETT: It's true. FRED RASCOE: Yeah. [LAUGHS] Interviewing people every week, bringing a new topic to the scholarly discourse every week is really fun. And so it's nice that there are these little things that, despite the drag that the job can be at sometimes, and the perhaps guilt that I feel that I consider it a job and not a calling or something that's essential to my identity, but there's still some things that can make me just hop out of bed. It's like, all right, I get to do this today-- hooray. [CHUCKLES] The thing that I was going to mention before I learned about my former colleague's passing-- I was going to talk about folks in Libraryland, like Kaetrena Davis Kendrick and Fobazi Ettarh, who are-- I guess it kind of ties into what I was saying. They're doing work that recognizes, you know, this isn't a calling. This is not a church that we're going to. We're doing a job. And at Georgia Tech, a previous dean said during a faculty meeting, like, if this is just a job to you, then you're in the wrong place-- said that to the assembled faculty. I felt kind of bad because, you know, I don't dislike my job, but it's a job. I could happily do one of a hundred other things in this library because it's full of great people doing interesting things, and there's lots of interesting things to do. But it is a job to me, and I felt bad about that. So I appreciate the work that people like Kaetrena and Fobazi are doing that highlights the fact that it's OK-- it's a job, and it doesn't have to be something that goes deeper than that. CHARLIE BENNETT: Fred, this is a real can of worms, but does it make the work itself easier or more pleasant to know that it's just a job-- to take away the romance? FRED RASCOE: Absolutely. It does. There might be some things that I could do that would be romantically and spiritually fulfilling. Romance-- not in the personal relationship sense. You know what I mean. Being a guitar player in a band that goes out and play shows and records albums-- that would be fun. But then again, maybe only for a little while, because then the new wears off, and the routine sets in. [CHIMES TINKLING] MARLEE GIVENS: Hi, Wendy, and Charlie and Fred. Even though I'm not feeling terribly inspired today after being out of the office for a week on jury duty, I thought I would try to share my thoughts on something that is inspiring my work these days. So I was thinking about people in the library world who are trying to rethink information literacy. For a long time, I think people were using this information literacy tool called the CRAAP test-- C-R-A-A-P, which stands for currency, relevance, authority, accuracy, and purpose. And it is kind of a rubric for evaluating sources that you might find on the web. I've used it before. It ends up getting pretty involved, and I think it ends up not being terribly helpful for students because there's just so many things to check. And there's a person that I follow on Twitter. His name is Mike Caulfield. He is based in Washington State. He created a methodology for fact-checking called SIFT-- S-I-F-T. So it's a similar kind of acronym, but SIFT stands for stop, investigate the source, find better coverage, and trace claims, quotes, and media to the original context. And it's just a different way of doing this kind of evaluation. And it's also referred to as lateral reading, and that is something that we started teaching here at Georgia Tech. The principle is that rather than looking at a web resource that you've come across and trying to go through the five steps of the CRAAP test-- so is it current? Is it relevant? Is it accurate? Is it authoritative? And so on-- people who put stuff on the web have just gotten so much better at making things look authoritative and accurate and relevant that it's hard to walk through those steps and really feel like you're doing what you need to do. And it's very time-consuming. So lateral reading is more like what a fact-checker would do. It involves looking strictly at the source, finding out who put this information out there, and seeing, basically, who they are. Do they have a hidden agenda or a not-so-hidden agenda? And so really, just opening up side-by-side tabs on your web browser to look up the people who put the information out there. And then, if you can't investigate the source, see if anyone else has been talking about it. Has it come up in other news outlets? And then see if you can trace any claims in the source back to the original context. So all of this comes from this person, Mike Caulfield, who is actually not a librarian, but he is very closely associated with the library school at University of Washington. It makes me feel excited to be doing something that seems more useful for students who are trying to figure out the internet. They all want to use the internet as they are doing their research, and I think we have a better tool that we can show them for that. And so that's really why it inspires me and how it informs my work. So when I teach information literacy, I try to take this approach more than trying to walk through the CRAAP test. It's a better way to go. So I hope this works for the episode. Thanks very much. CHARLIE BENNETT: You are listening to Lost in the Stacks. And we'll talk more about inspiration and no vocational awe on the left side of the hour. [MUSIC - APOLLO SUNSHINE, "BROTHERHOOD OF DEATH"] AMANDA SHEPPS: Hi, this is Mandi Shepps, the loud-mouthed librarian, and you're listening to Lost in the Stacks on WREK Atlanta. [MUSIC - APOLLO SUNSHINE, "BROTHERHOOD OF DEATH"] CHARLIE BENNETT: Today's show is called "Libraryland Inspiration." [CHIMES TINKLING] [OOHS] We're talking about the sources of inspiration we're finding in libraries and library people who are expanding what's possible. We offer a quote from Adrienne Maree Brown's Emergent Strategy-- Shaping Change, Changing Worlds. "Then, there is what I think of as anti-nurturing-- the ways we, in a Western-US context, are socialized to work against respecting the emergent processes of the world and each other. We learn to disrespect indigenous and direct ties to land. We learn to be quiet, polite, indirect, and submissive, not to disturb the status quo. We learn facts out of context of application in school. How will this history, science, math show up in our lives in the work of growing community and home? We learn that tests and deadlines are the reasons to take action. This puts those with good short-term memories and a positive response to pressure in leadership positions, leading to urgency-based thinking regardless of the circumstance. We learn to compete with each other in a scarcity-based economy that denies and destroys the abundant world we actually live in. We learn to deny our longings and our skills and to do work that occupies our hours without inspiring our greatness. Perhaps the most egregious thing we are taught is that we should just be really good at what's already possible-- to leave the impossible alone." Well, we're going to chew on that, and you can file this set under HM.831.B76. [MUSIC - KONK, "YOUR LIFE"] FRED RASCOE: You just heard "Your Life" by Konk. Great band name. And before that, "Inspiration In My Head" by 6 Feet Under. Those are songs about inspiration coming from unexpected places and doing what you want with it. [MUSIC - TELEVISION, "FRICTION"] CHARLIE BENNETT: This is Lost in the Stacks, and today's show is called "Libraryland Inspiration." And we're using this sound effect-- [CHIMES TINKLING] In the last segment, we were talking to Fred about his inspirations. And Wendy, since this is your baby, we can't let you off the hook. What's been inspiring you right now in Libraryland? Or, I'm sorry-- in Trouble-Making Archivesland? WENDY HAGENMAIER: Thanks for that correction, Charlie. One thing that has come up lately that was really inspiring to me is a group of alums from the University of Texas at Austin School of Information, where I got my master's degree to be an archivist, have set up specific scholarship fund for Black, Indigenous, people of color students in response to some demands that were released by the student body over the past year to do better in the school and by bringing more people into the school to do better in the profession. And yeah, so there's a whole group of folks, a couple of whom I was in school with-- Allison Clements and Michelle Keba-- who have sort of kick-started this, and Elliot Williams, as well-- fundraising to set up this endowed scholarship. I just think it's awesome to see people seeing these demands and just jumping in and taking action where they can, and staying connected to the communities that we came from and making them better even after we've left them. When I read about this, I also felt inspired to take action where I can, even if it's here in the library at Georgia Tech or if it's giving a donation to the fund, which I did. But it's that ripple effect of seeing people just say, hey, I can do something about this with the power that I have or with the spot that I'm in, and I'm going to do it. That's super inspiring to me. CHARLIE BENNETT: Do you have something in your sights at the Georgia Tech Library, Wendy? WENDY HAGENMAIER: Nothing specific. I mean, I'm excited about the work that the Library Diversity Council is doing, particularly around looking at onboarding and recruiting and hiring people, and making that a better experience for people who traditionally haven't been recruited or traditionally haven't been supported when they get to a job in a library. I think that's really important work that that group has started. And so I'm looking forward to contributing to that however I can and just sort of listening and learning about where to plug into that. But yeah, I think it can feel sort of like, where do I start? Or where do I belong in this conversation? And just the idea of just starting, which is what this group did just setting this up, and it's really inspiring to me. I think especially, also, in a time where we were joking, and we were acting in the intro, but I'm pretty much feeling like that right now-- the burnout and the sort of wondering where to put the effort. And so it just feels really good to see people moving forward and creating something that isn't the way it used to be. FRED RASCOE: Once again, it's that thrill of anticipation. WENDY HAGENMAIER: Yeah. CHARLIE BENNETT: That's one, Wendy. Do you have a second? WENDY HAGENMAIER: Yeah. So a second is sort of a shout-out. So I participated on a program committee for a virtual conference-- the BitCurator Users Forum that was a couple weeks ago. And then I'm attending a virtual conference, the Digital Library Federation Forum, next week, so sort of in between these two virtual conferences. And it's just a marvel how much work it takes-- like, human infrastructure-- to put on these virtual conferences. And so yeah, big shout-out to everybody from Educopia, and Elvia Arroyo-Ramirez, Lourdes Johnson, Brian Dietz, and Shira Peltzman, who led the program committee for the BitCurator Users Forum. It just was fascinating to see behind the scenes how much coordination is required, and the logistics, and all of those sort of practical things. But then, layered on top of that, it's, like, really making people feel connected-- creating that sense of legitimate community. Not just, here's the Zoom link. And I had these moments of, while helping support the conference but also attending it, where I felt really connected to all these people out there in cyberspace-- all over the world, really. There are international people, and that takes so much work to create that kind of culture in a Zoom chat. So yeah, I'm really in awe of that kind of work that's had to be sustained over this time where we've all been remote. And I hope that some of that kind of distributed virtual community can continue to be so rich even when we go back to in-person conferences. Yeah, so I'm just really in awe of the coordinators of all this infrastructure that's keeping people connected. And I bet that they're tired, too, because it's been a long time of this. So yeah, just, like, encouragement to everyone-- gratitude for keeping going. Yeah. CHARLIE BENNETT: I like hearing that all of us are taking inspiration from what other people are doing-- you know, looking outward and seeing what other people are changing or what their practices are. But I also noticed that one of the things that's really important, inspirationally, is this kind of critique or interrogation of the profession. I actually don't know if that's sort of ongoing in all codified professions. You know, everything that has an actual professional identity-- are they always working on what it means and what everybody else does? Having never been an engineer or a lawyer, or a doctor, I don't have the inside scoop. FRED RASCOE: I've wondered that, too. Like, do insurance salesmen get together and what, like-- or salespeople-- do they say, like, what does it mean to be an insurance salesperson these days? Maybe they do. I don't know. But it seems like libraries have that unique, you know-- what are we about? WENDY HAGENMAIER: It certainly seems like academics are-- Fred, to speak to your former library patron about academics-- they're going through a lot of questioning right now in terms of tenure. Or I guess some of the structural issues that have bubbled up this year have sort of forced a lot of questions about identity or what it means. But yeah, I think part of choosing the word "Libraryland" for the title-- which sounds super cheeseball, right? It's also a bit satirical, maybe, too. Or it seems like pushing outside of Libraryland is important to all of us-- not buying into the whole vocational awe thing is the theme. CHARLIE BENNETT: Yeah, and to escape from the idea that this is some rarefied, special place where magical people work, who have dedicated themselves to this wonderful thing-- libraries-- where you can go and then leave instead of thinking about the fact that, well, since we're awash in information and history and the reworking of history to create the future, libraries and archives are a part of our daily practices-- all of us, as citizens. And so Libraryland-- yeah, it's a wink to the slowly crumbling edifice of the magical librarian. And I'm looking at you, Neil Gaiman. FRED RASCOE: We can still use the magic wand sound effects in the show, though, right? CHARLIE BENNETT: Oh, hell yeah. FRED RASCOE: Great. All right. This is Lost in the Stacks, and we reported on location from Libraryland. WENDY HAGENMAIER: File this set under Z716.4.L53. [MUSIC - BOB LIND, "ELUSIVE BUTTERFLY"] [MUSIC - PAUL MCCARTNEY, "MAYBE I'M AMAZED"] You just heard "Maybe I'm Amazed" by Paul McCartney, and before that was "Elusive Butterfly" by Bob Lind-- songs about that electric feeling when inspiration hits. [MUSIC - TELEVISION, "FRICTION"] CHARLIE BENNETT: Today's show was called-- almost against our will-- "Libraryland Inspiration." WENDY HAGENMAIER: Thanks for dealing with the cheesy title, y'all. I really needed it. FRED RASCOE: Are you feeling it now? The Lost in the Stacks magic? WENDY HAGENMAIER: Yep. It's back. FRED RASCOE: Nice. CHARLIE BENNETT: I think we should still take advantage of the moment to have some more wand effects. [CHIMES TINKLING] All right. Roll those credits. [MUSIC PLAYING] FRED RASCOE: Lost in the Stacks is a collaboration between WREK Atlanta and the Georgia Tech Library, written and produced by Charlie Bennett, Fred Rascoe, Marlee Givens, and Wendy Hagenmaier. WENDY HAGENMAIER: Today's show was edited and assembled by Charlie, resident of Libraryland-- sometimes. CHARLIE BENNETT: Legal counsel and that magic wand that made all that noise were provided by the Burrus Intellectual Property Law Group in Atlanta, Georgia. WENDY HAGENMAIER: Special thanks to my show mates for embodying what's amazing about libraries. And thanks, as always, to each and every one of you for listening. FRED RASCOE: Find us online at lostinthestacks.org, and you can subscribe to our podcast pretty much anywhere you get your audio fix. CHARLIE BENNETT: Next week on Lost in the Stacks, it looks like pirates. Arg! Yarrr! Gosh, that hurt. FRED RASCOE: It's time for our last song today. The great things that other people do can inspire us to do great things ourselves. So let's close with "Inspire You" by The Expression, right here on Lost in the Stacks. Have a great weekend, everyone. [MUSIC - THE EXPRESSION, "INSPIRE YOU"]