[THEME MUSIC] MITSUKO ITO: Emotional control and press release tapping is indeed useful, and is a good way to make you feel safe and calm inside. I felt it was really interesting that they say that they felt safe. And it wasn't until much later, past COVID, that I really understood the importance of feeling safe internally. [COUNTRY ROCK MUSIC] CHARLIE BENNETT: You are listening to WREK, Atlanta. And this is Lost in the Stacks, the research library rock and roll radio show. I'm Charlie Bennett in the virtual studio with the whole gang-- Marlee Givens, Fred Rascoe, and Wendy Hagenmaier. Each week on Lost in the Stacks, we pick a theme, and then use it to create a mix of music and library talk. Whichever you are here for, we hope you dig it. MARLEE GIVENS: Our show today is called "A Material Method for Mental Health." We're going to learn about tapping, a physical method for reducing stress and creating mental calm. CHARLIE BENNETT: Now, when I first heard someone declared that tapping was something you could add to your well-being routines, I had to ask twice what they were saying, so we'll say it again. FRED RASCOE: It's tapping, like tapping, tapping the keys on your laptop or like what Eddie Van Halen does during his solos. WENDY HAGENMAIER: And now, you might ask, why are we talking about tapping on our research library rock and roll radio show? Well, let's connect the dots. Dot one, we talk about the material oomph on the show, especially when we consider analog tools or physical information containers. CHARLIE BENNETT: Dot two, our research library is the Georgia Tech Library. MARLEE GIVENS: And dot three, our guest today is a Georgia Tech professional who has used to tapping in her personal life, and is teaching the Georgia Tech community about the technique, as part of the many ways that tech is doing its best to support the well-being of its students and staff. WENDY HAGENMAIER: Connect the dots, and of course we're going to talk about of Georgia Tech-supported well-being initiative that has material oomph. FRED RASCOE: And our songs today are about mental health, healing, and being cool with yourself and with your mind. We sometimes think of the mind as almost ephemeral, but our brains are just as material as the paper and artifacts that we sometimes refer on the show as the material oomph, as Wendy said. So let's start with a song about the life of the mind, and how to bring what's mental into the realm of the physical. This is "My Mind" by The Arcs, right here on Lost in the Stacks. [MUSIC - THE ARCS, "MY MIND"] (SINGING) [INAUDIBLE] 1, 2, 3. [CHILDREN SHOUTING] That was "My Mind" by The Arcs, and this is Lost in the Stacks. And our guest is a practitioner and teacher of the mental health technique called tapping. Mitsuko Ito is an administrative professional in the School of Electrical and Computer Engineering, or ECE, here at Georgia Tech. CHARLIE BENNETT: If someone has never heard of tapping at all, except for the actual action of tapping and they say, what's this? How do you explain it to them? MITSUKO ITO: One way to explain it is, it's a newer psycho-sensory modality of self-care. What we can be doing is physically tapping on our bodies, some particular points. And in doing so, we're generating a little bit of vibration, but we're also connecting to some of the nerve endpoints. And so, there is an effect that's really interesting that's not as well known in the Western society, but this is a practice that has been performed in the East for many, many decades, many centuries, thousands of years. And so, there's good, established, anecdotal evidence that this is a very valuable self-care modality. CHARLIE BENNETT: And when you were describing it to me, you were-- you tapped your forehead and your jaw. What are these distinct points, and why those points for tapping? MITSUKO ITO: Yes, great question. The origins of tapping, part of it is in the Eastern medicine, traditional Chinese medicine. So just like acupuncturists would insert needles into some of the points of the bodies-- they can call it acupressure points, acu-points, acupuncture points-- those are basically along the meridians if you believe, if you're open to the concept of the meridian system. So for my own personal understanding, there's a little bit of electrical component to it. I have this really neat little tool called an energy stick, a little plastic tube that has diodes inside with aluminum wrapped on both ends. And as I hold both sides, it's going to make a sound and make some light flash. [HIGH-PITCHED SOUND] CHARLIE BENNETT: Whoa, OK. MITSUKO ITO: Well, this shows that there's a little bit of electricity running in our body, static. When you touch on the car in the heat of the summer, sometimes we get shocked. There is a reason why we don't stay in the pool when it's thundering out there. So we're utilizing that nature, electrical nature, is my own understanding, and having an influence on the nervous system. What these points are-- yes, so the meridian points, but you can call it reflex points, or electrical stimulation points, or I think there are different ways to describe it. How it came to just be some of these points, the main, evidence-based clinical EFT tapping points, Gary Craig, who was a Stanford engineer, he was trained by someone else called Roger Callahan, who have incorporated a lot of different tapping points. But I think him being an engineer and just wanting to slim things down, coming up with a simple protocol, trying to get the basic foundational, most simplified version of it, he just picked the 12 that seem to be really having a potent effect. And if we are to say a little more about that, they are often on the endpoints or at the beginning points of each of the meridians-- stomach meridian, bladder meridian, gallbladder, central vessel. There are different types of major meridians, but we're mostly covering those 12 major meridians. CHARLIE BENNETT: And you said earlier, if you believe. So is the word meridian, is that what you're saying? MITSUKO ITO: Meridian, M-E-R-I-D-I-A-N-S. CHARLIE BENNETT: And what aspect of it is belief? You know, like obviously, we have nerves. We are in bodies. But you said, if you believe. So what's the quality that maybe one takes on faith? MITSUKO ITO: Sure. I think that it's really good to know about the meridian system, but we're so far away from China where it has originated. If you're in California and in Seattle on the West Coast then, I think the understanding of the awareness and acceptance of the traditional Chinese medicine is so much more. Here, being on this end of the continent, I just find that not a lot of people, not as many people, have had the experience of acupuncture, may not have had the benefit of the traditional Chinese medicine. So there's a little bit of a barrier there. And that's why I use that word belief. I personally, strongly believe that it's just a part of our human anatomy. But I also don't want that to put anyone off by using a word that's going to be uncomfortable for them, that's too foreign that they're not going to entertain it as something that's valid. So if that's the case, then I'd like to use the words such as brain, the nerves. I think nervous system has a wider acceptance. And we are, I do think that we're impacting the nerves, so that would be the word that I would use more. CHARLIE BENNETT: Gotcha. So you know a lot about this, and you feel very comfortable talking about it in sort of a historical sense. Is tapping new to you? Or have you been doing this for a long time? When did it come into your life? MITSUKO ITO: Yes, great question. To think back on it, here's another tool that I also like to share. What this is, it's basically a bamboo stick with something like a ball on the end. This one is squishy. It looks like a golf ball, but it's not as hard as a golf ball. CHARLIE BENNETT: OK. MITSUKO ITO: And on this end, it's a little back scratcher. So this is something that if you lived with old generation Japanese people, they would have it in their house. What this does is yes, they call it grandchild's hands-- this side where there's a little back scratcher-- because it allows any old people who have limited mobility issues with their neck and shoulder to still be able to scratch their back. So it's a brilliant self-care tool. And on this end, it also has this back bonger, shoulder bonger, so you can be tapping on your body. So I grew up seeing this, knowing that this exist. And then, my grandfather was really wonderful with his hands, too. And I grew up with chronic shoulder tension headache, that kind of things where I, later in my life, I learned that it was basically me holding on to stress. So how I manifested stress in my body is that my shoulder, neck, head, all that area is just so tensed up. And I needed relief. If I was down with a headache, then my grandfather would give me rubs. And he would place his hands on these specific points and rub into them. And it hurts, but it hurts good. So I did grow up with that awareness that there are ways to care for a body using the hands and pressure. So I think this is just one additional way that we can apply that pressure, through bonging and scratching and tapping. CHARLIE BENNETT: We'll be back with more from Mitsuko Ito of ECE here at Georgia Tech after a music set. FRED RASCOE: File this set under RC435.A54. [MUSIC - CAPTAIN BEEFHEART AND HIS MAGIC BAND, "ELECTRICITY"] [MUSIC - "TAP TAP TAP"] (SINGING) Sad, hurry, hurry, tap. MARLEE GIVENS: That was "Tap Tap Tap" by Patatrax. And before that, "Electricity" by Captain Beefheart and His Magic Band, songs about ways to reach your nerves. [THEME MUSIC] This is Lost in the Stacks, and our interview today is with Mitsuko Ito, an administrative professional in the ECE Department here at Georgia Tech. MITSUKO ITO: Later, in 2006 I think, I was with my third child or third pregnancy. And I was already suffering with postpartum depression. And it was only getting worse with each pregnancy. The ironic thing is that I also had lots of joy and shift of hormones with my pregnancy, too. So during pregnancy, things are great. I have such an optimistic view of life. After the pregnancy, postpartum depression was so real. And this was number three. And I was having all these conflicts, like what do I do? I love being pregnant, but I don't want to have to go through that postpartum depression again. So I was really eager to look for anything that was going to help me. And tapping, that's when tapping came into my life for the first time. It might have been through a counselor back in Colorado, Fort Collins. She introduced this to me. And I might have tried it. It might have left an imprint on me, but I didn't have all the resources and energy to pursue it at that time. Now, fast forward to after I moved to Atlanta. And now this time, again, with another pregnancy, another postpartum depression, another panic attack to the point where we seriously considered me being admitted to a hospital even. CHARLIE BENNETT: Oh. MITSUKO ITO: Yeah, I even thought about possibly adopting her out, because I was seriously doubting myself as a capable mother to care for my children. And far removed from my family members, relatives, we grew up in Japan. I grew up in a three generation household. I knew the benefits of an intergenerational support. I didn't have any of that here. I'm shaky with my mental health, overwhelmed with stress, affecting my physical health, affecting my functioning. I just needed some way out. And tapping is, again, one of those things that I came back to. One of the tapping sessions that I had that was huge to me, she had given me a lot of warning and she had given me instructions. We had done tapping, perhaps, one sessions already. And so, she had given me enough warning. She said, OK, we're going to go through the tapping again. You seem to respond really well to it. And here's where the psycho-sensory part comes in, the psychological part also comes in. She said, I'm going to put out a word for you. And it might be triggering for you, but we're going to tap through it. OK? That's what she said. And I was ready to do anything to start feeling better. I was at one of the rock bottoms. There have been several other rock bottoms, but one of them. So I said, yes. I'm open to trying. And she said, OK, then we're going to start tapping. Repeat after me. Even though I'm a bad mom, I accept myself. And with that, just like the dam had broke. I'm still getting emotional right now. And that brought up a lot of stuff that, you know, I was dealing with internally. So I'm going to start tapping on myself right now, because this is how I really calm myself down in times of stress. [SIGHS] And you can see how already, I'm shifting out of it. Yeah, this is just such a powerful emotional management tool, a stress management tool for me. And this is how I have been able to live through times of stress, how I've been able to help myself get out of depression, manage my emotions, and how I've been able to get myself to a stable place, really enough to where I'm able to function as a staff at Georgia Tech. I think a lot of us who go into tapping, it's because we are hitting such major wall. It's because we know that we have had such trauma that's affecting our energy and emotions, to where we often choose to pursue that as our life purpose, life goals. I think for me, one aspect of it was I wanted to create a safer environment for my kids. As a mother of severely food allergic child, asthma, allergies, immune issues, myself autoimmune issues, so just in pursuit of trying to create a better environment, I've always been an advocate. And I wanted to bring this into the schools where my kids were. At some point, they banned me from their campus. They thought that your mom coming in and tapping, sharing tapping with her classmates, his peers, seemed a little threatening to them, so I needed to give them a little space. But Georgia Tech was willing to hire me, and they seem to be accepting of this desire for me to share stress management. They see the value in it, especially post-COVID. That's when I got approached saying, do you want to share some of this mindfulness techniques that you have been practicing. And through staff counsel, through GTHR, it's really been wonderful. And the feedback has been great, too. CHARLIE BENNETT: So from your story, the tapping, it's not simply a physical action. It's also related to something you're thinking at the time. And is there an easy way to describe that relationship between what you imagine while you're tapping, or is it more complex than a single explanation? MITSUKO ITO: There are different ways to approach this. I think for me, personally, being a massage therapist and knowing where-- knowing that me, personally, hold tension a lot in my body, what I would encourage anyone to do, you mentioned visualization or imagination. I invite people to know where they're noticing the stress in their body, in, on or around their body. Oftentimes, stress is not just a mental activity, but it's very physical. Oftentimes, fear shows up. Like, if someone's having a panic attack, I love working with those that have phobias. It's very visceral. Your hands might get sweaty. You might have your heart pumping so much faster. You might not be able to take a deep breath. You might have a gut-wrenching sensation. Stress can be very visceral. And I think that's part of the message that I want to share, the awareness that if you're able to connect with the stress in your body and do this physical application of tapping, noticing that's just a stress manifestation, you're able to create shifts. I'm not sure if I answered your question. CHARLIE BENNETT: No, you did. So what's been your experience telling students about this, getting them, I guess, interested and skillful at tapping? MITSUKO ITO: Yeah, I think there are several different camps. Some people might think that, well, thank goodness I'm not stressed enough to the level where I need to start doing these weird things. CHARLIE BENNETT: [LAUGHS] MITSUKO ITO: And then, there are some that are totally open. They say, yeah, especially those that have grown up in China, India, other culture where they-- I think they have some more familiarity with non-traditional, non-mainstream Western modalities, I guess, who come from different backgrounds. The ECE PhD students even, they would say, yeah, of course, because we have static electricity running in our body. Or they might say, yeah, this is really good. It releases the emotional pressure and makes you feel safe. Those are the words from the students that gives me perspectives and words to know, OK, this is how they're feeling that it's helpful. MARLEE GIVENS: You are listening to Lost in the Stacks. And we'll be back with more from Mitsuko Ito about tapping on the left side of the hour. [ROCK MUSIC] LILA JANE: Hi, this is Lila Jane. You are listening to Lost in the Stacks, the Research Library Rock and Roll Radio Show on WREK. CHARLIE BENNETT: Atlanta. LILA JANE: Atlanta CHARLIE BENNETT: Do you like Lost in the Stacks? LILA JANE: Yes, I do. CHARLIE BENNETT: Today's show is called A Material Method for Mental Health. And if you visit the website, tapping.ece.gatech.edu and find the about page, you'll read this. This site was generated in response to the COVID-19 crisis that has hit GT campus hard, as it did everywhere else in March, 2020. Within one week, Georgia Tech went from having regular classes and operations March 12, to exploring having instructions move online, to letting students know they are not to come back, to the whole campus research ramp down March 19. And many other themes, events, tragedies, too many to list in the subsequent months to follow, no doubt 2020 and the aftermath has brought a great deal of confusion, overwhelm, many emotions and distress. Although we at Georgia Tech had been blessed with protective leadership, a strong community along with other favorable factors allowing us to withstand the crisis as a whole, how individuals have been impacted varies greatly, and the need to be collectively resilient has never been greater. File this set under PN56.P914. [MUSIC - P-MODEL, "HEALTH ANGEL"] FRED RASCOE: You just heard "Health Angel" by P-Model. And before that, "Can't Find My Mind" by The Cramps, songs about mental health trauma and healing from it. CHARLIE BENNETT: With The Cramps? [THEME MUSIC] MARLEE GIVENS: Welcome back to Lost in the Stacks. Our guest today is Mitsuko Ito, an administrative professional in the ECE Department here at Georgia Tech. CHARLIE BENNETT: And you have a page on the ECE site that is tapping.ece.gatech.edu? MITSUKO ITO: Yes, that's correct. CHARLIE BENNETT: Do you maintain that? Is that yours? MITSUKO ITO: Yes, me and several other staff members, we owe a great deal to the communications team. ECE is really, really blessed to have-- it's a wonderful school. Our new school Chair too, he wants to encourage everyone to balance work and life with balance, with care and compassion, while nurturing our community and growing professionally. And I think that it deeply resonates, that the idea of tapping deeply resonates with what the Chair has in mind, what the previous Dean has had in mind-- who is now the Provost-- and even the current Dean, everyone. I don't think that it's an out of alignment. It's just totally in alignment. We want to be centered and grounded. We want to perform well. We want to function well. We want to be a good contribution to the community as we care for ourselves, nurture ourselves. So we're really blessed that ECE has wonderful resources to have this kind of stuff up and running. We have videos out there and website, and even tapping circles that we can offer. CHARLIE BENNETT: What is a tapping circle? MITSUKO ITO: A tapping circle, that is in collaboration with external tapping practitioners who are certified often. They are there to co-host with us. So I put the tapping circles on the website, and whoever wants to sign up can sign up. And this gets shared with whatever opportunity that GT has. Right now, it's also on the Be Well or the Well-Being Initiative through the Georgia Tech human resources website, as well. And it's absolutely open to other USG community members and beyond. If you want to bring your friends and families, they're all welcome too. But basically, the tapping circle, we host just 30 minute short tapping experience. So if anyone is new and wanted to give it a try, because it's so much easier to have an experience and know the value of it than just reading about it, so we offer this space as a platform where you get to experience a little bit of tapping. And you can ask questions, if you want to. If it doesn't work for you, there are many other stress management techniques. But I so strongly believe that this is a valuable tapping technique. And I guess we've gotten enough support, enough validation from the community members too, where they're willing and eager to share and support this initiative. CHARLIE BENNETT: Some people might push away tapping because they feel that it's not true, or it hasn't been scientifically validated, or that it is, in some way, culturally inappropriate. Have you had any of that experience? You've said that everyone's been sort of very welcoming and validating. Has there been any dissent? MITSUKO ITO: I have not, personally, had a straight, in my face backlash type of thing. It could too be that because I already have been sensitive in how I present it-- like, I don't go around saying tap on your meridian points without having a sense of them being open to the concept of meridians, for example. So for me, that hasn't been. But also, I only started tapping seriously in the 2000s, which is much more recent. This technique has been around, at least the tapping that Gary Craig had introduced to the world-- shared with the world-- has been around since the 90s, and if we backtrack it then, in the 70s with Dr. Callahan. So back then, I'm sure that they had to defend themselves. In Dr. Callahan's book, he openly claims that I don't exactly know why this works, some of the meridians seem to be doing it. But he himself wasn't so sure what the meridian was, so I think they were just all experimenting, basically. So what I do know is that a lot of acupuncturists-- I love acupuncture. I love acupuncturists. I love how they try to explain things. But honestly, it doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Like, there's so much dampness in your something, something meridian. I can't quite wrap my mind around it, honestly. So I could totally see how, if we're not careful explaining tapping in a way that's relatable for them, it could create a backlash too. Or it just can create so much discomfort, to where they're not going to be able to accept it and it could lead to a resistance. CHARLIE BENNETT: Yeah. MITSUKO ITO: I have observed, over the years, that if you look at Wikipedia and look up tapping, which I haven't recently done, I do think that it was, at one time, labeled-- what's it called-- like pseudoscience. I don't even know what exactly the word means, but the impression that I get is not trustworthy, perhaps. CHARLIE BENNETT: Untested, I think, is the way, or unvalidated. MITSUKO ITO: Unvalidated, OK. CHARLIE BENNETT: I remember, I guess, gosh, in my youth, acupuncturists and chiropractors were sort lumped into the same sort of not exactly pseudoscience, but untested, uncertain, perhaps not as good as medicine, you know. And I think there's still quite an intense but subtle argument going on in the culture, about whether something needs to be scientifically validated. If something can be done, even if it doesn't have a "truth" to it-- big quote marks around "truth"-- but if it makes you feel better, you should do it, you know, that sort of thing. Although, I haven't heard anybody disparage a chiropractor in a long time. I think everything gets more and more accepted as we move forward in the culture. MITSUKO ITO: That's really interesting. That's such a great point. I am a practitioner and not a scientist, not a clinician, clinical data collector. So I tend to incorporate things that work. And tapping has produced massive improvements right in front of my eyes, and for myself too. So I strongly believe in it, but I also want to respect those that don't share that same experience. And I don't mean to push it on them, or enforce them, or try to override their beliefs. If they can't accept it, then that's OK. It's probably something that they don't need. I probably needed it and I used it and benefited from it, so that's good for me. And it's good for those students that can benefit from it. That's all cool. But I don't feel like I need to prove that this works either. Although, there are enough-- I would think that there is-- I consider it to be enough scientific and clinical data validation now. And I think one of the struggle might have been, how do we get that voice to be accepted? So I think for those that like data and scientific evidence, I would say that there is more coming. I think there's more validation of theories through the practice. And it's just a matter of fact of how we can collect data, which costs time and money and energy and commitment. CHARLIE BENNETT: Yeah. MITSUKO ITO: So I think that's probably one of the biggest sticky point. And for me, before COVID, I was happy to just let the world evolve as the way it was. But because there have been requests, because there have openness, and because I saw the opportunity to really get this as I do the outreach to benefit people, I know this can help. I wanted to share. I couldn't just hold back when I knew that something could help them. And there was a synergy at Georgia Tech. WENDY HAGENMAIER: Today's show is called A Material Method for Mental Health. And our guest, Mitsuko Ito, is a practitioner and teacher of that material method, tapping. She is an administrative professional in the School of Electrical and Computer Engineering, ECE, here at Georgia Tech. FRED RASCOE: File this set under RC74.N6. [MUSIC - THE SELECTOR, "TOO MUCH PRESSURE"] [MUSIC - THE CLARE SISTERS, "COOL COOL COOL"] (SINGING) Let's make love for two. MARLEE GIVENS: That was "Cool Cool Cool" by The Clare Sisters. And before that, "Too Much Pressure" by The Selector, songs about meeting mental health challenges and being cool with yourself. [THEME MUSIC] CHARLIE BENNETT: Today on the show, we talked about tapping, A Material Method for Mental Health. So I'd like to ask the show crew, do you have a physical calming routine you use when you're stressed? What are your material methods? Mine's pretty simple. Sometimes, I just need to get out of my office and clear my head, so I do a very particular walking path in the library that I've established over the past year. I know I'm particularly stressed out if the students look at me strangely as I walk by, because that means I've done the walk too often and passed the same set of studying students multiple times before the class change can clear them out. MARLEE GIVENS: A few times during the pandemic, one thing I tried is just, I guess it's called shaking and dancing. It's just like, you just wiggle. CHARLIE BENNETT: [LAUGHS] MARLEE GIVENS: And it feels absurd, but it just like really expresses a lot of energy through the-- or anxiety or whatever you're feeling through the body like really fast. And then, you also just laugh because it's hilarious. So I recommend the shaking and dancing method. CHARLIE BENNETT: And you've got a lot of songs to help you do that. MARLEE GIVENS: Totally. FRED RASCOE: I don't know if I have a deliberate method, but I have kind of an inadvertent tic. When I am really stressed or nervous or anxious about something, I tend to scratch my head with both hands. I don't know that it helps, but it's just something that is just like a nervous reaction to negative stimulus. My son's inherited that as well, I've noticed. CHARLIE BENNETT: It seems very primal. MARLEE GIVENS: It does. WENDY HAGENMAIER: Yeah, it has to be two hands and on the head. I once learned a technique for that sort of the calming of the brain that I need before I go to sleep, or at other times of stress I suppose, but paying very close attention to your actual present physical environment, and taking stock of the things that you can hear and the things that you can see and the things that you can experience with your senses. And I've forgotten the actual method that involved actually counting specific things, but just being in the present is helpful. CHARLIE BENNETT: I like all those methods. I think the one that we're going to honor with the credits is the shaking and dancing one. Roll the credits. [END CREDITS MUSIC] FRED RASCOE: Lost in the Stacks is a collaboration between WREK Atlanta and the Georgia Tech Library, written and produced by Charlie Bennett, Fred Rascoe Marlee Givens, and Wendy Hagenmaier. WENDY HAGENMAIER: Today's show was edited and assembled by Charlie, with the occasional break to try out this whole tapping thing. MARLEE GIVENS: Legal counsel and a full-sized map of tapping points on the human body were provided by the Burrus Intellectual Property Law Group in Atlanta, Georgia. WENDY HAGENMAIER: Special thanks to Mitsuko for being on the show, to the ECE Department for its support of her work on campus, and thanks, as always, to each and every one of you for listening. FRED RASCOE: Find us online at lostinthestacks.org. And you can subscribe to our podcast pretty much anywhere you get your audio fix. CHARLIE BENNETT: Next week's show features a new member of the Georgia Tech Library team, the Electronic Resource Librarian. What is her job? And why is it mostly invisible? FRED RASCOE: It's time for our last song today, and we close with a song about helping ourselves and others with what's happening with respect to our mental health. This is "I'd Like to Walk Around in Your Mind" by Vashti Bunyan, right here on Lost in the Stacks. Have a great weekend, everybody. [MUSIC - VASHTI BUNYAN, "I'D LIKE TO WALK AROUND IN YOUR MIND"] (SINGING) I'd like to walk around in your mind someday. I'd like to walk around.