I am Soskin Benjamin the executive director of our papers and I am so pleased to be here to introduce Marc to you this evening. I should thank a few sponsors and donors. We would like to think one Consulting Group. Jonathon short penthouse productions and the W. Atlanta downtown for being the official hotel sponsor for A.P. live when it comes to funding programs we always need to think our government funders so thanks to the National Endowment for the Arts Fulton County arts and culture and the city of Atlanta office of Cultural Affairs. I also want to let you know that the lecture tonight with Mark as a lead into the Decatur Book Festival happening this weekend in downtown Decatur this year the Decatur Book Festival has incorporated the arts in a major way. And please come out and visit us in booth three three three. We will be there making collages from our old magazines and there are a ton of other arts organizations that are represented at the festival. It's free and if you want more info it's to cater Book Festival dot com. Before I introduce Mark I want to remind you that many of you received a survey and I hope that you will take the time to fill that out. It helps us with future programming and it's also just really important to us in terms of Grant reporting. You also saw hopefully our latest issues of our papers magazine you are welcome to take one with you and if you are not a subscriber we urge you to become a subscriber of the magazine and finally that was a good segue. If you would take a moment and please put your cell phones on silent. That would be much appreciated. Now wrestling. I think that's all kind of the business stuff to take care of. So I'd now like to introduce Mark and Ellie. Fanfare like it. Marc grew up in St Clair Shores or class suburb of Detroit's east side between eight Mile and nine mile in his email to me. Mark offered this a side. Fun fact about St Clair Shores this is the real life location of the trailer park where M.M. grew up but I didn't know Eminem He did however work as a shorter cook at the bar a few blocks from where he grew up. So I think that gives you a little bit of a taste of Mark's writing. Mark as a first generation Italian American his father was a knife sharpener and a shop was in Detroit. So Mark spent a lot of time making deliveries for him throughout the city after college. He moved to Atlanta lived in Camden Park and to cater for seven years and freelance regularly for the A.J.C. covering music theater in the arts. MARTIN If so New York in two thousand to attend Columbia University where he got an M.F.A. in fiction writing and became a contributing editor at Rolling Stone where he's written cover stories on Paul McCartney Jay Z. Bruce Springsteen Sean Penn and Brad Pitt Mark has also written numerous feature stories with topics ranging from teenage pot smugglers and Idaho a murder case involving a violent hardcore punk gang right wing politics in Kansas. I like how this go together and the melting of Greenland in two thousand and six. Mark published a novel psycho and Vince that he must die with Docky archive press and in two thousand and nine he moved to Detroit to begin reporting Detroit City is the place to be published in November two thousand and twelve a metropolitan Henry Holt will use his book as a jumping off point for tonight's lecture talk for about forty five minutes to an hour will do questions afterwards and I would be remiss if I did not point out that the books is hosting a book signing with Mark in the lobby immediately following the talk and we hope you'll stay for that. And Mark will be. Well we'll sign books for you. So with that without further ado I turn it over to work. Thank you all for coming out and I want to start by thanking our papers and everyone in Georgia tak I'm really thrilled to be here and Saskia said I lived in Atlanta. For about seven years so it's it's really nice to be back and drive around and see al the new developments you got you guys seem to have the opposite problem that we have in Detroit too too much development here possibly. So I'm going to read something very very short just the first two pages of the book just to give you a little little bit of grounding into what I'm going to talk about it actually touches on. Detroit's sort of her trail in pop culture which you know can kind of lead into what we're talking about this image by the way is possibly my favorite piece of public art in Detroit. It's the Joe Louis. This is Joe Louis the boxer grew up in Detroit. He worked to afford plant for a while but he hated it was too hard. So he shifted over to boxing and and this is right on the Detroit River and it's this giant black forest facing directly pointed directly towards Canada. So I've always really enjoyed that. And this is my first time using the Power Point program so I think it'll work fine but we'll see. Back when I was a boy growing up just outside of Detroit my friends and I beheld any mention of the city in popular culture with a special thrill. We loved how Detroit was deemed terrifying enough to be chosen as the dystopian locale of Robocop the science fiction film set in a coil e undated near future when to try to become so. Dangerous that the outsourcing of law enforcement to an armored have heavily weaponized cyborg would seem a prudent and necessary move when the producers of Beverly Hills Cop decided to make the hometown of Eddie Murphy's fish out of water detective our own because after all what could be more antipodal to Rodeo Drive in Woodward Avenue. What more alien presents to the Beverly Palms hotel than a black dude from Detroit in Mumford High T. shirt. We delighted in that we certainly tested the speakers of our American made. Whenever Detroit song found itself played on one of the competing local rock stations who would be churlish enough to flag these songs as relics of an earlier era or point out how the lyrics pivoted off the city's reputation for chaos righteousness destruction to such a degree the very titles panic in Detroit Detroit breakdown Motor City may have house could be mistaken for headlines from July one thousand nine hundred sixty seven. And I'll just pause and said this Ted Nugent song provided the title of this book the lyrics the chorus goes Detroit City is a place to be so thank you. That. To this day when the plangent opening piano chords of Journey's Don't Stop Believin Blair from a dive bar jukebox. Who among us begrudge is even the most overplayed of power ballads a respectful split second cock of the head and perhaps a secret inner smile as well. All because the protagonist of the song was born and raised in south Detroit. No matter there wasn't really a neighborhood called south Detroit or that the person living there wanted so badly to get the hell out. He took a midnight train going anywhere. My parents subscribed to time and I can remember excitedly reading a story at the height of the tension between Ronald Reagan in the Soviet Union detailing the effects of a single nuclear bomb dropped on a major American city this. The others explained had been chosen entirely at random. But of course it was Detroit. A choice that by ninety two probably came across to most locals as an on gallant case of piling on. Still a twelve years old I devoured the shout out as if the city had won some national lottery. The article began say it was late April a cloudless Thursday evening in Detroit Assume further that there is no advance warning beginning at ground zero of the blast and expanding concentric lee of the story proceeded to describe in gruesome detail the fate of Detroit and its residents. If you happen to be watching a baseball game at the old Tiger Stadium for example you would immediately go blind. Then you would burst into flame. But the writer continued on. Hopefully the pain and quickly the explosions blast wave like a super hardened wall of air moving faster than sound crushes the stands and spectators into a heap of rubble skyscrapers topple commuters mountainside their cars even Canadians and neighboring Windsor act out this I found particularly satisfying would be fatally pelted with fragments of the Renaissance Center rolled across the river by one hundred sixty mile per hour winds. Following the geography of the article to my family's own suburb I learned that only a minute after the blast fires would already be raging in tens of thousands of people dying survivors crawling from wrecked homes to see an eight mile high mushroom cloud in the distance but survivors. See I pointed out to my little brother. Even at that early age displaying the hopeful spirit that all Detroit area natives learn by necessity to cultivate like a rare breed of flour. One of us might live. To try it. So the question I get Here's another cover from time from two thousand and nine and. It sort of speaks to a question I get asked a lot about this book which is why why write a book about Detroit. Being from there. Of course is one was one reason I always just found a trait really fascinating and knew I would write about it in some form but around two thousand and nine when the cover story was written in dozens and dozens of other stories very similar Detroit had this weird moment where it became the sort of poster City Opera prison metaphor for everything that was going wrong in the United States in the world really is the economy which is cratering in it and it is the economy in Michigan and Detroit in particular was really being hit hard by the auto industry is you know basic collapse and then that's the foreclosure crisis which hit Michigan very hard in very early and it Detroit extremely hard and really sort of undercut the tax base and and. And hurt the city basically sort of kick the city you know into the situation. It is now which is bankruptcy. So here's Detroit. I actually have a little laser pointer I'm told. OK So this big shape here is Detroit proper and these are all the suburbs surrounding Detroit. I grew up over here. St Clair Shores and this is the famous Eight Mile Road which is just like a straight line dividing the city from the suburbs. So as there I am as you know as Saskia said I I grew up in St Clair Shores. It's basically a very you know working class blue collar suburb the thing before. I'm a thing was best known for. Was is the home of the Reagan Democrats which was a pollster in the eighty's named stand. Greenberg. Realized that that these union workers who had been very. A loyal Democrats were shifting ever in voting for Ronald Reagan and the case study that where this was happening was McConnell County where Sinclair shores is my father was a knife sharpener that's not him but he he he and my parents are both Italian immigrants and this is this is a shot of a Ford plant. You know in the sort of golden age of Detroit and their story by parents story was it was a very common one. You know beginning in the teens and twenty's with Henry Ford sort of perfecting the assembly line. And then eventually starting when you start to pay people five dollars a day which was unheard of at the time. Later with the strength of the United Auto Workers. You know essentially building the American middle class in lots of ways workers from all over the country all over the world were swarming to Detroit and this was happening you know basically up through the Depression. There was alone during the depression then during World War two The factories were sort of retrofitted and Detroit became the arsenal of democracy they were building tanks and planes and well into the fifty's Detroit was really kind of booming and that's kind of a super bright photo but it's it's the skyline of Detroit and you know here's a shot from the riots. Here's another one people. People often mistakenly think of the Detroit riots in one hundred sixty seven is the moment when everything went wrong but in fact that golden age that I just talked about at the seeds of Detroit's current state were already being planted back then. There he quickly. You know of suburban sprawl Ironically the very sort of sprawl that the automakers were were fostering and promoting was starting back then and so. So now. Only white residents but businesses factories were moving out to the suburbs where where you know taxes were loud or nonexistent land was plentiful and cheap factories could easily expand. There was also you know just sort of group broader sort of macro economic forces at play that were leading to the industrialization and and then of course you know in Detroit specifically race was a huge factor in what was what was going wrong in the suburbs. The metropolitan area was extremely segregated this is a sign from a. From a housing project that was built in the city. It was that they were trying to integrate at the time so Detroit. You know all those all those things like I said were put into play in the fifty's by by two thousand and nine when I moved back to to write this book. This was sort of this was sort of a moment when Detroit everything that could have gone wrong had gone wrong and Detroit was really really become as I said the sort of the sort of all purpose metaphor for what was going wrong with with with the economy. This is where I ended up moving right up here. This was a street were actually used to make deliveries for my dad as a kid I would deliver restaurant equipment to a store right down there at the time with back this was sort of artist last and things like that so going to quickly read another short section just to sort of set the scene for when I live what it was like when I moved back and the particular interest that Detroit was getting from not only journalists like myself but from artists urban planners architects that sort of thing and this is just a. A short. Two page section in the waning months of the Bush administration a curious thing happened is Michigan experienced a small but significant uptick in one very specific sector of its tourism economy journalists started showing up. It turned out that explaining the origins of the financial crisis in any detail required elaborate definitions of complex and stupefyingly boring financial terms like credit default swap and collateralized debt obligation but with the potential bankruptcy of General Motors to get something tangible and wholly understandable to a lay person. We'd all at least ridden in an American cart some point just as we opposite opinions and various ways in which they sucked even better Detroit provided the sort of breathtaking visual backdrop that shots of anxious looking wall street floor traders or the exterior Bernie made abscond that simply could not compete with is the hurricane approaches land journalistic convention dictates a live report from the field where the correspondent must don a rain poncho and shout into a microphone while being buffeted by the elements palm trees flailing wildly on the deserted beach in the background a visit to the ruins of the old Packard Plant or a ghost street of abandoned houses became the financial collapse equivalent it taken the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression to do the unthinkable Detroit had suddenly become trendy and so we all came reporters from Fortune The Guardian C.N.N. and The Economist advice from Tokyo and Paris Sydney and Los Angeles. While attempting to get footage of the Packard Plant a Dutch film crew was carjacked which itself became a news event. Adding to the Detroit so crazy story line and a satisfying metanarrative kind of way at a public school rally in nearly bumped into Dan Rather was Dan Rather. Even on television anymore. And he just turned up on his own dime drawn by an old man's vampire vampirish six. Cents to the most swollen van in the circulatory system of the present news cycle. The new obsession with Detroit did not end with journalists at least not according to the journalists themselves who reported on how artists were also colonizing the city could this be a first wave of Bohemian gentrification was Detroit the next Williamsburg Brooklyn. One young couple Chicago had bought a home in Detroit for one hundred bucks Brooklyn artists came in for another house in a block of ice. Thanks to a nearly fifty percent tax incentive being offered by the state how they would film crews also arriving along with actors like George Clooney and Richard Gere a glossy French fashion magazine even produced a special Detroit issue featuring shots of models and ruined backdrops the magazine cost twenty dollars in the United States or in local terms one fifth of the price of a home in Detroit. Land speculators made the scene to the new mayor former Detroit Pistons basketball star Dave bang began to publicly acknowledge the need for the city to build shrink in radically reinvent itself a pledge that urban theorists who had long regarded Detroit as the unsolvable math problem of their field found tantalizing and so they came to align with the Scandinavian academics in the past or alien agriculturalists the deep pocketed philanthropic organizations in the free market ideologues in the fringe left utopian as they are they come to see the place as a blank slate so debased and forgotten it could be remade The irony was almost too perfect Detroit having done more than any other city to promote the sprawl and suburbanization that it's so despoiled the past century could now become a model green city for the new century with with bike paths and urban farms and grassroots sustainability nudging aside planned obsolescence. So I join the wagon train along. The hustlers and the do gooders the preachers and the criminals the big dreamers looking to make a name for themselves in the heavily armed as outlets awaiting the end of the world they we came like pilgrims. To witness to profit from to some time somehow influence the story of the century. It might very well turn out to be the story of the last century the death rattle of the twentieth century definition of the American dream but they're going also be another story emerging the story of the first great post industrial city of our new century. Who knows Crazier things have happened in Detroit. So yes so I moved back I mean I came back to to write a story for wrongs done specifically on the collapse of the auto industry. I saw these journalists other journalists there thought you know I'm a native I could hopefully bring more nuance. To the story bring up things like humor and and other aspects of the Detroit story that I felt like journalists just coming in for a couple of days were missing. This is a meme again. So one thing you know one interesting thing that happened that sort of touches on what I was just talking about was the way the sort of national discussion of Detroit changed while I was there when I first arrived Detroit was you know it seemed like the country really wanted it. Couldn't get enough grim stories coming out of Detroit. They wanted to hear about the ghost streets in the you know any sort of crazy terrible Detroit story seemed to sort of delight people and in a sort of unsavory way that I thought like perhaps reflected people's anxieties about their own situations and the economy the country as a whole was was in such a precarious place and I think it was comforting at that time so know that at least there was this place Detroit where you didn't live. That was much much worse than wherever you happen to live. At But I noticed while I was there and I was seeing it happening in real time as the recess. Just continued to drag and a new Detroit narrative started to emerge and this was about the comeback people suddenly really wanted to hear that Detroit was coming back part of it had to do with the auto industry and this is a little still from the the famous Chrysler ad that ran during the Super Bowl that people just loved in the following year they did another one with with Clint Eastwood and so so people really I think needed to believe that that if the worst of our cities could somehow come back and there was hope for all of us another part of that narrative I think was the sort of Arts the idea of the big arts renaissance in Detroit and this is the poster for the movie the documentary to do Tropi a great documentary and many of you have probably seen this couple on the cover there featured briefly in the movie and they were my neighbors on. Service street and they're there they're a couple an artist couple who moved to Detroit from Hawaii. I joke in the book that that's possibly the first time in human history that particular migration made but if we go back. So they lived in this building they had the whole for a whole floor of this building. It's an old like for on a chair where it was a furniture warehouse and they had an entire floor which had to be like two or three thousand square feet and they were paying two hundred fifty dollars a month so so that you know a big part of what was driving you know what was was attracting artists was the cheap rat I mentioned a hundred dollar house that story was everywhere and people. People like the idea of. You know I mean artists always look for places like that where they can they can live cheaply and make their art in Detroit also had the sort of the near of authenticity that that that. Williamsburg Brooklyn for example maybe lacked. So you started seeing all sorts of people this is the ice house that I also mentioned earlier these were a couple of artists from Brooklyn who came in from an abandoned house solid sort of I think represent the freezing of the housing market or something. It was slightly conceptually dubious I thought but. But they got so much attention and it became a sort of thing where you could come to Detroit and do an art project and kind of jump to the front of the line you get on C.N.N. doing like anything. It was really and I would see it happening I would I remember being added some sort of dinner party where these these people like local foodie types were were were sort of having a having a little a little dinner and this guy who just moved to Detroit and started making sausages like three months earlier was there being interviewed by The New York Times for a feature and it's like really. Wow that's what's happening very fast but so there at the same time there was you know it's a real the phenomenon is real and there are parts of Detroit that that have changed tremendously and a lot of it has to do as is often the case in cities with artists coming in first and sort of setting the tone and you know I wouldn't use the term gentrification in cities like Detroit because I don't think it's really there yet but but but you know moving in that direction and so if you look at this sort of downtown midtown core of Detroit which is a very small part of Detroit. That's kind of unrecognizable from what it was ten years ago and you actually. There's a housing shortage. You can't. It's very hard to find an apartment in those neighborhoods and this is in a city with something like seventy thousand vacant buildings so that's kind of insane. And to think about one pocket of it being so hotly to me having a lot of it has to do with artists. So a few of my for. Favorite artists. This is Steven Durata Koya the. Dress league and they do some really interesting stuff you can see this is an old former speakeasy I think. And they they do the street are kind of stunts where they play around with with imagery from advertising and and that sort of iconography and it's I think it's a very interesting thing to do particularly in a city like Detroit where if you if anyone has been there if you drive around it. You start to notice one of the weirder things about it is the lack of commercial spaces and instead in signs advertising things and people trying to get you to buy stuff and lots of the city it's there's just there's just nothing and so for them to come in do stuff like this and in put up graphics that say coming soon. Or you know traditional advertising sort of sort of slogans. It's kind of cool. This is Tyree guy who has been been working in Detroit for for decades. He he was living in a very rough neighborhood and basically started taking over the neighborhood with with this massive art installation called the Heidelberg Project named after the street. This is a house that's all covered with creepy stuffed animals. But he's he was really you know one of the first first big artists come out of Detroit starting back in the eighty's in the city actually. Was initially not supportive at all of his work they bulldoze some of the houses now they've come around and he gets visitors from all over the world. It's very. Makes me think of it like Howard Finster like that sort of folk art environment although he. I believe did go to art school so he's not untrained this is a photograph by a Dutch photographer who moved to Detroit named Curran Vermuelen I find her work very interesting because she actually unlike a lot of the photographers came to Detroit and just took pictures of the ruined buildings she focuses on people like almost all of her photographs have people and this is this is a photo taken very close to downtown Detroit and it's one of these neighborhoods that has kind of used to be a densely populated residential neighborhood and now it's you feel like you're out in the country somewhere and some some of the people who live that I used to live very close to where this kid lived and people started farming and they had goats and this is an artist who I love a guy named Scott Hawking who is also native Detroiter he grew up in a suburb. But he makes these really interesting installations using only material he finds in these sites so this is the inside of the the old Fisher Body plan which is a huge factory and you see you drive by when you're when you know and the major highway coming in from the airport you see it and it's this crazy eyesore. And it's been like that. I think my whole life. I don't remember it looked ever looking differently and so he built this pyramid using I don't know if you can guys can really tell. But the floors of these factories were beneath the concrete there were these wooden little wooden bricks. So he built this strange pyramid documented it by taking pictures and and then just leaves it there. You know and whatever happens happens. So yeah the those were those were some of my favorite artists This is of course the famous Diego Rivera mural. In the Detroit Institute of Arts which is was in the news recently in May. If you probably heard about as Detroit went to bankruptcy the emergency manager who's sort of running things in the city. Floated the idea of possibly sallying some of the artwork in the in the museum some of the they have you know they have a great collection because it was a collection that was put together when the auto industry was still booming. So they have you know mangoes overcast and red and and so there was this idea floated that I don't think I don't think anything's going to come of that but it freaked a lot of people out the idea of selling off these paintings to pay off banks This Diego Rivera mural was commissioned by Edsel for I'd came to Detroit first for several months spent a lot of time and forwards Rouge plant and it's really spectacular This is only one of the four walls and and it's pretty it's pretty amazing. And so that sort of takes this so the next section I was going to read which is to me sort of a pin in my eyes. Maybe the height of the absurdity of some of this some of the sort of art art scene hype. It was when Matthew Barney came to town. So I'm going to read again a very short short little scene about about this performance that Barney did and it starts at the trade astute of Arts where that mural was one October morning two hundred members of the art world elite gathered for a catered brunch buffet in the great hall of the Detroit Institute of Arts the Museum of those arts temple built in one thousand nine hundred seven when Detroit's out of barons had money to spare for such conspicuous cultural displays have been chosen as the starting point of an epic performance by the contemporary art superstar Matthew Barney. That's known for a series of visually ravishing and fanatically art directed cream master films and also for being the longtime companion of the Icelandic singer be York the event was invitation only of the guests most have flown in from New York and Los Angeles in the list included curators from the Museum of Modern Art and the Whitney auctioneer's from Sotheby's directors of the Warhol foundation. P.S. one and the DIA Foundation along with various other artists gallery owners wealthy and well connected patrons and be York herself. The Barney performance titled coup would be part of his first major effort since the cream master films in which the handsome extracted cast himself as a grotesque unrecognizably made up Saturn figure for. Or as the murderer Gary Gilmore crew master too often spending interminable chunks of screen time doing things like say squeezing through a narrow tunnel lubricated with what appeared to be Vaseline Barney's latest project was a planned seven chapter adaptation of the Norman Mailer novel Ancient Evenings which concerned classical Egyptian the oceans of the seven stages of death and rebirth. The Mailer's book had been a decidedly minor late period work. The choice at least topical has seemed fitting for Barney whose own films like allegorical paintings made animate arrived coated with enough multi-layered references and fraught symbolism as to conjure their own mythology. Unlike remaster this new piece consisted of a series of live site specific one time only performances all to be filmed for some edited future use. Part of the reason for the setting of crew had to do with the local connections of two of Barney's personal heroes who were referenced in the production the performance artist. James Lee Byers who was born in Detroit and died appropriately enough and Kyra. And Harry Houdini who died in Detroit and whom Barney clearly considered sort of proud of her for months artist. Barney had earlier spent time in the city filming a prologue to Ancient Evenings which culminated with a Pontiac Trans Am driving off the ballad bridge to a Houdini stunt performed in one thousand and six in which he leapt from the bridge while shackled with handcuffs the Trans-Am was supposed to be a reincarnation of the nine hundred sixty seven Chrysler crown Imperial used in the smash up derby in cream Astra three at the brunch I had some fresh fruit in a made to order omelet. While I was standing in line for the fruit to Detroit. Artist told me how well taking York on a tour of his neighborhood the day before he pointed out a foreclosed home he hoped to buy with plans of transforming the yard into skateboarders half björk misunderstanding had cried delighted you turning the houses into pipe organs. What a great idea. After brunch we filed on to the tour busses. That would shuttle us to the first act of the performance the buses embark upon a leisurely caravan through the city Poznan in front of the abandoned train station cruising past the more mundane ruins scarring every other block a chic British gallery in her sixties Stepaside me for the tour. She said she'd been one of the earliest champions of Barney's work when we passed the poor teen story Wurlitzer building her eyes lit up. She told me the Wurlitzer is World Family friends. Turning to one of her travelling companions a young long haired artist who looked like a guitar tech for heavy metal band. She exclaimed novel. We should buy one of these buildings for a dollar everyone around us laughed eventually our bus was parked on a residential street a mile or so west of downtown a couple of guys in hooded sweatshirts watched from the front lawn of their dilapidated apartment complex as we exited the tour busses and were directed into a moldering two story glue factory where folding chairs had been set up on the main floor. Along with standing room spots on a second level loft a group of us. Line workers toiled a long bench meticulously assembling about a dozen junkyard Viola's. The workers for the most part burly man with Walrus moustaches ponytails and U.A.W. Local six hundred T. shirts looked authentically working class in the set. Likewise felt real from the forboding hook dangling from the ceiling to the defunct heavy machinery crowding the perimeter. It was unclear which if any elements of the SAT had been found and which had been constructed by Barney who is known for his first studious attention to the tiniest sculptural details. I didn't find it impossible to imagine a team of Arden turns distrusting freshly painted walls with specially designed dust applicators in hand flickers Barney himself was nowhere to be seen. I was told he was directing the scene from an undisclosed location on the Somebody's line the workers were employing forest manufacturing techniques each applying himself to a single specific task from drying strings along the necks of the instruments to soldiering their bodies into place as each below was completed a musician appeared from the wings and began to play a tune with dirge the workers Meanwhile remained bent to their individual jobs proceeding at a punishingly unhurried pace. This continued to half hour giving us plenty of time to absorb every sarcophagus detail of the factory space. I wonder if the hideous screeching of the tune was distracting the instrument makers and how it must feel for an hourly worker in Detroit to play act his or her trade in a performance with a rep reputed the five million dollars for an audience of the cultural elite. I notice that the actor James Franco had fallen asleep in the front row. Maybe one day the only factory work left in Detroit would be stylized performance art art. Manufacturing is historical reenactment upon leaving the glue factory Marcion a gangplank single file onto a two hundred foot barge that took us on a journey down the Rouge River through the heart of Detroit's and. Just real history. Not only past the Rouge plant but under the Gothic drawbridge as in alongside factory smoke stacks spewing actual flame until it began to feel as if we were traveling back in time to some extinct era which of course we sort of were it was a cold and wet afternoon in the grey Midwestern sky looked especially vast and pretend to us aside from your Could being from Iceland and dressed appropriately for the weather. Many of us had shivered in the open air back occasionally taking seats on a tiered road damp girders lining the starboard of the barge like bleachers while helicopters buzzed overhead to film the forensic investigation of the drowned a Trans-Am. From the water with a massive crane and deposited on the deck. A smaller motorised boat circled in our wake a horn section on its own deck serenading us with blasts of free jazz later while a pair of male twins saying threatening operatic arias the remains of the Trans-Am were moved from a bar in melted in the furnace as of the gargantuan multi-story foundry which this doesn't really do justice as to how massive this thing was is several dozen other laborers swarmed like ants in the yawning quarry. The rain wind pounded out such a squalid by the end that most of us fled to the tour Busters missing the coda the release of a live vulture at the after party in line at the open bar ran into one of the curators and asked how Barney's location scouts had chosen the foundry She explained. Actually none of the founders they looked at were the right size he built that one. Where I discovered the blue collar workers toiling on the assembly line were not in fact blue collar workers but art world types who had helped with the news that have the effect of making me slightly more depressed. So this sort of leads us into what I think is you know. A slightly more complicated and somewhat troubling aspect of of the new attention being paid to Detroit and that is the the aesthetics of Detroit and specifically the ruins and that you know that can't be ignored is one of the sort of huge parts of the fascination with the city and that definitely came into play in that in that tour they took us down before the Barney. Before the Barney performance. This is a map of the city and you can see you know you can see you can see these areas that the that have that have to have the highest vacancy rates I mean Detroit is a city that at its peak had nearly two million residents at the last census it was down to about seven hundred thousand many of those residents of course went out to the suburbs that were in the map. I showed you earlier. But you've got the city with with a massive infrastructure and in just not not enough people and not enough of a tax base to support it and you've got all these spectacular ruins from the sort of golden age of the city. One of the most famous is Michigan Central Station. This is the the old train station that was built by the same architectural team that did Grant's Grand Central in New York. It's about twelve story is and you can probably tell and you can basically see through the building. It's chorus and it's been abandoned. Since the eighty's there was some talk of turning into police headquarters at one point which would have been sort of spectacular but but it's still sitting there it's owned by this local billionaire who's been kind of sitting on the land trying. To work this sort of complicated land deal. You know this is just this is this is an old robber baron your house is a whole neighborhood of houses like this. You really saw a spike in photographs like this one taken both by fine art photographers some of you might have seen a book by by photographer Andrew more to try to sample what it is these these beautiful photos of of abandoned homes and factories and spaces this is a science lab from a from a high school. This is the lobby of a probably a fourteen or a twenty story a beautiful art deco. What was once a sort of highrise kind of luxury apartment building this kind of photo became so prevalent. You know you had fine art photographers doing this you had you know news photographers and just amateurs I mean if you just search Detroit ruins you'll find any number of you know sort of flicker sites locals became or began referring to this is a ruin porn and understandably they're very sort of founded and and just tired of the same old portrayals of the city and this is a photo I took of a burned stolen and burned car that was left in the Packard Plant which is this huge factory goes on for miles and it's been closed since the one nine hundred fifty S.. This is a house that was taken over by a pack of wild dogs. This is another abandoned house a kind of love that graffiti. This is an old picture of an old Press Photo of the Supremes who grew up in this these housing projects which. Very close to where I live the Brewster projects and this is what they look like today they're all. I mean you can see they're absolutely bacon and so you know I'm of two minds about the stuff I mean there definitely is a very sort of creepy unsavory aspect to some of some of the way that people gawked at that stuff on the other hand as I say in the book you know for a journalist to come to a city like Detroit I mean if you see the scale of the stuff to ignore it would be like writing a travel story about Malibu and not mentioning the Pacific Ocean. I mean it's just the scale is unbelievable. And so it would be dishonest not to show some of the stuff and you know and then the aesthetics get kind of complicated because some of these rooms are sort of beautiful. These are the bad side of room which inspired Romantic poets like hits and Shelley and painters like me and pier in a sea. You know there's a whole tradition of of paintings of people contemplating ruins and so it's it gets sort of complicated. You know Detroiters it also breaks down somewhat along racial lines in in the sort of city suburb divide a long time. Detroit is often I would hear people say you know just tear it all down and I can really understand that attitude you're driving by some of these rooms every day and it makes sense on the flip side a lot of the people sneaking into these abandoned buildings taking the pictures putting it on the Internet are white kids from the suburbs and it's one African-American Detroit or told me you know. So if if they caught a black kid from Detroit in one of these buildings. He'd probably be arrested. You know and these white kids can do it and don't really have to worry about that. So it's all very kind of the artist whose work I showed you earlier Scott Hocking who builds the pyramids. He did another piece that I found really interesting and I this was in the Packard Plant. Which bill. You know the PAC It closed in the fifty's like I said it's just been sitting there. And it's just unbelievably massive. I went with him one day one winter to see this piece. These are some of the pictures and I'll just read this the short two page description of what I saw one afternoon I tagged along on a tour of the Packard Plant. With Scott hocking an artist who'd been exploring Detroit's ruins for years. It's got some of the new piece in the Packard It was December. So we our work puffy coats as we marched down the middle of the street our boots crunching the surface of a deeply impacted layer of snow and ice we eventually reached the train tracks that had once caught carried freight directly in and out of the sprawling complex the factory five story structure across two sides of a major road seemed to have no and Scott said you could get lost inside and that even he hadn't explored every corner huge chunks of wall had collapsed to reveal the great innards of the place in dangly stooped back the trees hugged the walls like Ivy for years after it ceased operation the Packard had been used as a storage facility. Scott's new installation made use of a bunch of antique television sets he discovered in one of the storage sheds and had involved his painstakingly. Hollowing the bulky frames to a partially collapsed section of the roof. Now he let us through an open bay door is if in preparation for a public burning someone who downloaded a dance that could have tree branches just inside the space. Otherwise cavernous and empty a section of brick had been removed from the base of a far wall forming a tiny scrap crawl space cartoonish illegible blue graffiti tag the circumference of the hall crouching so low he practically Now Scott led us through the passageway I wondered if the person who cut it had been thinking of Lewis Carroll on the other side of the hallway into the stairwell the stairs had no railing and each step had a course treacherous dusting of rubble. We climbed past broken windows overlooking a snowy graveyard eventually coming to the top floor where huge portion of the roof had collapsed flooding that end of the space with afternoon light the covered portion of the floor remained dim and shadowy The only enhance in the spotlight quality of Scott's installation in the place where the roof had caved he'd arranged as empty television boxes on top of a number of the exposed columns which looked like the remains of some Doric temple some of that I mean it's really pretty crazy. It was a spectacular vision. Some of the columns that toppled over others remained stoically upright surrounded by Boulder sized chunks of concrete and gnarled fingers of rebar we climbed up to the roof for a better look. Scott deriving a perverse pleasure from pointing out the places he suspected would soon collapse explaining how various support pillars are buckle and the angles at which they might come to ground. Kerryn target for who's with us set up a tripod and took our picture as we peered over the edge the roof was covered with snow and in the photo. It looks as if we're standing on a wintry plane at the edge of a cliff but in fact the building had been abandoned for so long. That scrub grass and little tree is to begin to grow on the roof and not poked up through the layer of whiteness the post-apocalyptic grandeur of the scene momentarily silenced us if we were in the presence of something demanding respectful meditation but what exactly. If you manage to slip inside certain Detroit ruins your sometimes struck by their sacred aura like they can feel beautiful and tragic at the same time monuments to flawed human aspiration that in an unintentional way begin to approach the holy It was freezing her fingers wet and I'm taking notes and pictures. Fina another person who is with us said if the place were turned into a museum you could fix up a little space on the corner and put in a cafe make that part warm. We could hear scrappers in another part of the plant the clattering of their built their equipment. Back inside. We came across another section of the building where an industrious type had dragged a couple of car seats to a scenic overlook we saw a very fresh footprints in the snow near a window on the wall someone had spray paint on one wall someone had spray painted a blue Krishna figure over which someone else had written. Fuck you. Buddha. As we were leaving a carload of teenage boys pulled up looking for a way and another afternoon at the Packard Plant I ran into a family from Paris. The daughter said she'd read about the building in a Lonely Planet. Her father had a camcorder hanging around his neck the previous stop had been Michigan Central the train station. Another time while conducting my own tour for an out of town guests a group of German college students drove up when queried as to the appeal of Detroit. One of them gleefully exclaimed. I came to see the end of the world. So that's some of the room too as in there. Scott the artists. Well. So you know and interesting Lee actually since I wrote that passage the wealthy guy from the Chicago area has been talking a buying the Packard Plant and possibly doing something with it which would be amazing and I feel like there's definitely plenty of blight in Detroit that needs to be removed. There are something like seventy thousand abandoned buildings but there are other other other places like like the Packard Plant that are there really do have historical value and are you know are sort of really interesting parts of our industrial history and it would be a shame to see them all go and turn into parking lots and you know the funny thing is I mean there was a photographer a Chilean photographer and they in the seventy's and eighty's who started photographing ruins throughout throughout the Rust Belt in cities like Gary Indiana and Buffalo. But he didn't spend a lot of time in Detroit. His name is Camilla Vergara and he wrote this essay for Metropolis magazine in the ninety's sort of calling on the leaders of Detroit to just section cordoned off a section of downtown and just leave leave these abandoned book buildings to sort of mold her and make it an American Acropolis basically that didn't go over well with the Chamber of Commerce surprisingly but but you know oddly I mean this he was and it was a very cheeky essay that he didn't really mean seriously but but he was sort of a prophet because that is happening now. Tourists. You see tourists at the Packard Plant at the train station every day. I mean you can drive by there at any time and you'll see people taking pictures. So it seems like there should be an interesting way to sort of use some of these ruins to you know to incorporate them into whatever Detroit become. Moving forward. Which brings us to the last part of the talk and that's you know what you know what Detroit might become this is these population figures are wrong. This is old but just to give you a sense of the size of Detroit. It can fit San Francisco Boston and Manhattan within within the city limits and so we're talking about a one hundred forty square miles. About forty square miles are it is vacant land. And here's an aerial shot of of a neighborhood. You know and again this you know this used to be a dense residential housing and now these are fields I mean you go to some of these neighborhoods in the summer and the grass is up to here and feel like you're in rural Alabama or something. And this is very close to downtown Detroit and so that's been one of the one of the big very interesting challenge challenges and potential assets for a city like Detroit. It does have the space and what do you deal with that here's another aerial shot this is this is actually the old ball park Tiger Stadium which was torn down when I first moved back to Detroit in two thousand and nine they tore in like half of it down and they ran out of money. So it literally looks like the coliseum in Rome and it was that way for like nine months and then they finally tore the whole thing down. And now people will occasionally play baseball sneak in there and play baseball in the old Diamond. That's a casino in the background some of the great new architecture coming out this is another former neighborhood that was totally cleared as part of this development plan they were supposed to build lots of factories and nothing really came of it and so it's this my friends called the zone. It's basically like blocks and blocks of this where you don't even see the sidewalks you feel like you're out in the country somewhere. So the question is sort of you know what to do with the space. One of the more interesting plans to sort of come out of all this new interest in Detroit. Was originally called Detroit works. They've since changed the name to Detroit Future City and the idea was you know it was put in place by the by the mayor there but also by you know it's basically funded by by private private foundations because the city have money to pay for this. They brought in. Tony Griffin and who's an urban planner from Harvard and lots of other people thinking about how to transform the city that you know I'd compare it more to a city like Los Angeles very spread out you know not much in the way of high rises or apartment buildings more like single family homes or Raja's driveways How do you make that city dense more urban and and then turn the turn the turn all this bacon land is something else. So you know they talk. This is one of the sort of things they came up with the idea of having these different zones of land use the carbon forests that the idea behind that is planning trees around industrial zones and along highways to sort of soak up the air pollution. Blue infrastructure would be you know actually sort of capturing rainwater and in you know almost creating wetlands and going all the way into. The idea of of actually making large scale farming in the city proper one of the one of the plants that has gotten a lot of attention was come up with a guy named John Hantz who is a hedge fund guy who grew up in rural Michigan and lives in the city now but wanted to do this large scale farming. He's been somewhat stymied but he has a sort of small test farm up and running and his idea was to do a sort of mixed use thing a lot of the soil obviously being Detroit is you know you know he couldn't grow vegetables and things like that. So for for those sorts of areas he suggested a Christmas tree farm things long things like that recreation facilities with horses he want to do it on a massive scale. This is another rendering. Detroit has already become sort of the urban farming capital of the US What I mean there are thousands of of the little gardens and farms throughout the city. This is one of the the Hance plan was greeted with some skepticism by the more grassroots people who've been doing this for a while they're nervous about a corporate takeover. Here's another little garden. The second thing that's part of the the Detroit's future city plan is light rail Detroit basically as the Motor City had had no public transportation to speak up. Other than the really kind of shoddy bus system a bus system that again is there's a Detroit only bus system there's a totally separate suburban line which is really surreal so. One summer when I was working when I was in college and living at home with my. Parents I'm working downtown I would get on the Suburban boss. It would pick people up through the suburbs hit eight Mile Road and immediately go express. Straight downtown so you have these suburban buses in Detroit buses kind of driving side by side and that's you know kind of the story of Detroit in a lot of ways the lack of cooperation between city and suburbs has been a huge part of the problem but they did get funding for this light rail a lot of it comes from private foundations. But they're built there. They're getting ready to start the first phase of that which is a huge deal for a city like Detroit. This is a rendering one of the big players is a guy named Dan Gilbert. Who the owner of Quicken Loans He also owns the Cleveland Cavaliers. And he he's really this is a rendering done by his people and he's he's really invested in downtown Detroit a lot of these buildings that were Garwood was talking about making into necropolis Gilbert has bought and he's moved a lot of his employees downtown convince lots of other people to move downtown. This is one of the one of the areas that I talked about at the beginning. That's really really is thriving it doesn't look quite like this but he's bought about forty buildings downtown and it's really it's it's it's pretty impressive. This is Lafayette Park which is a huge These are means bandura buildings and there's also a bunch of low rise buildings that he designed. And this is one of the reasons you know Detroiters are wary of top down urban renewal programs this happened in fifty's sixty's. And a huge There was a there was a storage lead black neighborhood in Detroit called black bottom that was kind of the thriving sort of Harlem. Detroit at that time was completely demolished in the name of urban renewal and they've built these high rises in a freeway basically so. So there's there's a lot of wariness about about what is what is going to happen with something like Detroit Future City especially when you talk about moving people from their homes and getting people to move to to these denser neighborhoods that will supposedly be better. You know on the one hand you look at you go to some of these neighborhoods and you see literally a single house left on a block. So you think well that's a good deal for this person to move on the other hand you know this is maybe an old lady has been there for forty years it's her home. She's held it down when everybody else laughed. You know it's it's a tough sell. And there's no eminent domain in in Michigan. So that that's something they're really working out and the other thing that I think is tricky about this plan is is as I said I mean Detroit. Detroit is in the middle of this bankruptcy the city itself has no money to pay for any of the steps of there's really a huge reliance on foundations and private individuals wealthy people like this guy Dan Gilbert wealthy people like Mike Ilitch who is the owner of Little Caesars pizza. He also owns the Detroit Tigers and the Detroit Red Wings hockey team he's about to build a big hockey arena in downtown and is getting. Taxpayer money for that even while they're talking about selling paintings from the museum and this is the interior of one of the Danielle brick buildings. So I think this points to another potential problem. You know when you talk about seating so much power to these unelected rich people they they might have questionable taste and so. So it's all very tricky. I do and the book in a note of cautious optimism that I think the bankruptcy the bankruptcy is really totally in flux right now we don't know how to turn out in a lot of it depends on the the it's in bankruptcy court at the moment so a lot of depends on what the judge decides to do but in theory it could wipe a lot of these debts clean in open the way to lots of new investment. The the sort of new the Nuestra businesses that are coming into the into downtown and some of these buildings that Gilbert is hideously renovating it's a really do much more interesting and diverse mix of new industries and in the past one of the problems with Detroit was that it was really such a one industry town and there was always an almost you know per turn alist idea of of the auto companies and that they would always be there to sort of watch over us and come back and take care of the city in those solutions have been sort of. Vanquished. And so there's really much more of a willingness to and a desire to diversify the economy and bring in tech companies and in all sorts of smaller entrepreneurs maybe won't have. G.M. opening up huge auto plant that employ five thousand people that you're having a lot of smaller shops with one hundred people and the third thing that makes me hopeful is that the demographics of the city and suburbs are are changing somewhat people. People talk about to Troy you know and they can either mean the city proper bordered by. Or the metropolitan region as a hall which if you include the suburbs. You know depending on where you draw the lines is anywhere between three and four million people. So that's you know that's still a still a serious number of people and you know some of the suburbs farther north are some of the wealthiest suburbs in the country. So if there were more regional cooperation there could be a lot more could be done and you've seen with the past censuses. You know middle class blacks whites from Detroit has made the suburbs much much more diverse than they ever were. You know historically the suburbs were very red lined so they were basically whites only. And now the suburbs are are are getting very diverse the city. Likewise saw its first uptick in in white residents in something like forty years in the last census so that seems like a positive movement and like it could lead possibly lead to to further their regional cooperation which I think would really be the key to fixing things in Detroit. I thought I would just and with one more of very short reading and this is just a little scene in one of the neighborhoods. I was describing former neighborhoods I guess where there are only a few houses left and I when I moved back to the city I live near one of these neighborhoods and I would ride my bike occasionally and and yeah I think that's all you need to know so people like to compare the amount of vacant land in Detroit to equivalent sized spaces of Paris could fit into Detroit's forty square miles of a. Nothing or two Manhattan's slightly shaved Boston such formulations though inevitably lead one to imagine a continuous contiguous land mass. Several as a rotten limb or possibly something to be cordoned off and beautified like a Central Park which of course is not the case they can parcels were spread throughout the city closer in spirit to tumors revealing a body. When enough of those parcels happen to cluster together you had urban prairie his entire neighborhoods nearly wiped from the map the inevitable result of a place built for two million servicing less than half that number an exemplary swath of Perry had crept within walking distance of service street. Some call the neighborhood I'm talking about South Pole town polish factory workers populated the area several decades ago but I started thinking of it is upper chain after Shane Street which runs straight up from Detroit River on the two mile stretch of Shane itself once a thriving commercial strip. You could count the viable operating businesses on two hands. Several of the now unrecognizable storefronts have been burned and partially collapsed years earlier looked like funeral pyres left untouched as a more monument to the dead. On the residential streets entire blocks had gone to fields the remaining houses arranged schizo frantically from obvious drug spots to beautifully kept up brick ranches from old wooden bungalows to foreclosed properties scrapped to the joists by copper thieves. Once I shocked my trepidation at venturing into such a lonely and forbidding territory. I began taking long bike rides around upper Shane and summer afternoons the insect noise could be deafening in though the people sitting out on their porches would stare and soon learned that country rules applied here too. If you smiled and gave a little wave or a head nod you generally get the same back say. Of course the dope boys whose hard gazed dedication to radiating inscrutability and menace convinced me to drop the smiling part. Mostly though the menace was due to the absence of people and thus far more rural than urban putting me in mind of seventy's exploitation movies like The Hills Have Eyes or Texas Chainsaw Massacre in which naive city folk venture down the wrong dirt road and find themselves on the business end of a meat hook. The scrappers were everywhere. One Sunday morning in broad daylight on a desolate stretch of grandee I rode past a guy pulling pipes twice the length of his body and loading them out of the basement of a foreclosed home into a white minivan a few blocks later a couple of entrepreneurs came driving in the opposite direction in a pickup truck. It's bad overflowing with twisted pieces of metal including what looked to be a number of shelving units. In another field a chain and Canfield Tyree Guyton the Heidelberg artist had arranged a bunch of discarded shoes in the shape of the river. Shortly after he'd laid out his installation. I had noticed some kids from the neighborhood waiting right through the middle of it like anglers when I asked was what was up. They said free shoes. The little girl warned me that was hard to find your size or even a matching pair a few blocks away just past the Church of the Living God Number thirty seven. A white pit bull began barking furiously at me from the yard of a home that I thought abandoned. When I got closer I noticed a young man in a crisp Tigers kept staring calmly at me from one of the broken windows a bicycle down a block of Dubois with just a single house left standing almost dead center of one side of the street the whole of the other side had turned Fiero forested by a tangle of on mowed grass and gnarled trees. Despite its isolation the two story wood frame house had been neatly maintained with a handsome grey paint job and a lush garden of rose bushes and fruit tree is surrounded by picket fence. Around faced man in a bright red T. shirt and Bermuda shorts sat on the top steps of the porch. I stopped and said hello. His name was Marty. When I got closer I noticed a cane next to him on the porch the writing on Marty's flip flops proclaimed him big slugger number one dad. Marty used to work in the auto industry and also a thorn in Apple Valley a sausage planet near Eastern Market that closed in one thousand nine hundred eighty eight. I had made frequent deliveries to for an Apple Valley as a teenager. My dad sold them sausage casings. Marty and I bonded over the side coincidence that we figured out. We probably never met back them. I did things with pigs live pigs he told me widening his eyes theatrically to signify you really don't want to know. He told me anyway while he bit never butchered he had the comically unpleasant job of hurting the soon to be slotted pegs into the Avatar using a weapon he got into the habit of naming his favorite pigs and keeping them in the back with him as long as possible so eventually they all had to go and ask Marty if you'd be willing to move if the neighborhood got right sized and that was the you can mystic term the. Detroit works project rightsizing the city. He shook his head. This is our house for generations we pay our taxes that's not happening. So when I open the gate at the side of the House who's back there. Marty asked you turn out to be as aunt who also lived in the family home she tended the flowers in the saffron is pulling a red wagon laden with gardening supplies. I do it as much as I can she said my piece of the house had been in his family for fifty years sixty four years. His aunt said my mother bought this house when I was three months old. You get to analyze this Marty said these are some rough times we're living in most of our jobs went overseas. I never seen an economy like this ever he lived on the block his entire. Life. Watching the neighborhood disappear around him. The barber shops bars ice cream parlors all gone. This neighborhood used to be straight. He said. He squinted at the thicket of trees across the street you get used to it. The one thing it's quiet here. Don't be all that crazy stuff around here. I like the serenity of my environment to me all this is a big plasma screen. You just have to be strong and keep God with you. What does the Bible say you're in this world but not. No wait I said I thought it was of this world but not in it and he nodded Right right. The later I realized I'd screwed up the quote of course we're all in it. Thanks thanks. For. I shan't. Know I Detroit City is a place to be but not when you're actually trying to write a book about it. I had to it was one of those places that as a writer. It was kind of an embarrassment of riches I would open the paper every day and some new crazy thing would be happening and I'd think like I've got to put this in the book and so eventually when it came time to write the book I moved I went back to New York I kept my apartment in New York. Ironically I'd had no trouble subletting my place in New York when I was living in Detroit want to sublet my Detroit place. One of my neighbors ratted me out to the landlord and I had to. The apartments. Sadly in the city of seventy thousand make it. Buildings I lost my my place. But I go back a lot. My family still lives there. Yes. I did. Very briefly Yeah he's you know I mean I was sort of I guess mocking the piece a little bit. But it was you know also really kind of amazing I mean one of the more amazing things I've ever seen. I mean just the amount of work that went into it and. I mean being on that barge the slides I showed of the industrial portion of the river don't quite do it justice. I mean it's this area of Detroit. You can't really can't really get there unless you're working at one of the plants and just slowly be going down this river kind of into the heart of darkness with you know like I said flames literally spewing from the tops of these factories and you know it was Barney's so. So you didn't really know you never really knew what was real and what he built and south this giant boat came by at one point like a giant and we were all wondering like did he time that like exit came out of this really perfect moment and it was like there's no way he could have time that but. Yes I met a very briefly and he was he seemed very nice but you know he's isn't like I didn't interview him he doesn't even really like to talk across much. Well General Motors moved their headquarters to the Renaissance Center so that they were there were some danger of them leaving the city at one point they did an older building called the Fisher building which is this gorgeous kind of art deco building. Now they're in the Renaissance Center. Beyond that I'm not sure you know I think that they they they take up a lot of it. People don't know the architect is an Atlanta architect right. Yeah. So it's this crazy you know I don't know. I find the inside. I think people hated it for a long time I find that it's dated in sort of a weird interesting way of I'm not. You know. An architect. But I think the Renaissance when I was a really cool building. Yeah so that's all I know about it. Well it wasn't it hasn't been totally vacant this whole time. Like I said it was used for storage for a while I think it was like a big paintball complex at one point. I've seen people. I mean now you see people there posing for wedding portraits. I mean it's really become this crazy. Iconic tourist stop. But yeah. Part of the problem was the city couldn't figure out who owned it. It had like passed through so many different hands this convicted ecstasy dealer at one point they thought he was maybe the owner but they couldn't prove it. So in the city didn't have the money to tear it down themselves because it's it's just so massive and it's just environmentally it's kind of a nightmare. The idea of tearing down some of these factories a camera that's an Albert con building or not but you know those buildings were like these concrete bunkers I mean they have these shows you saw those columns and so they're just it's a really expensive to take those down to the city even though it was this massive eyesore and a lot of people wanted to see it come down city couldn't really afford to do it and they couldn't I think it's been really difficult for them to figure out who they could force to do it. So yeah it would be interesting if the you know the talk of this guy buying it is very it's in the very early stages and part of me would be surprised if something actually came out of it but it would be kind of great if they could at least keep part of it. Yeah much. Yeah probably that that sort of interest. I think has increased over the last ten or twenty years I think I think even back going back to the the early days of Detroit techno music like in the late eighty's I think there have they were having raves in the Packer plan and now and that was when it was a bit more in taxes like now. Kind of dangerous like that shot of of us standing on the roof that whole section of the roof has completely collapsed since then. So they're always there often fires there another film part of one of the Transformers movies there. They've been filming a lot of kind of disaster movies they filmed the remake of Red Dawn in Detroit as well one of the filmmakers told me that they love shooting in Detroit because it's the only city where you could just do like a massive explosion in the middle of downtown and like nobody cares. Yes that was definitely the initial response I think I mean people like I said you know there's the trees have long memories there's this sort of history of urban renewal kind of gone wrong in Detroit and so they you know that those developments left a very bad taste in a lot of people's mouths. They were you know they were very they at least paid lots and lots of lip service to sort of community feedback. I mean the roll out for this thing basically lasted the entire time I lived lived in the trade writing a book I mean it went on for like two or three years it was sort of interminable and but they had all these town hall meetings and in sort of ways in which the traders could sort of make their voices heard. I think they basically had the plan. You know the plan that they came out with was the plan that they had you know kind of Invision from the very beginning but I think people are you know the they don't the farming thing is not incredibly popular in the city you hear a lot of people talking about the sort of plantation model. You know they just that people don't like the idea of. You know farms in a city like Detroit. I want to see across the board but I'm just saying you know that that's that's one thing you hear you know and it's tricky. The idea of you know getting people to move is also really tricky as you saw in that section I just read that you know a big problem in Detroit and again this is a historic thing as people see. All of the money and all the resources being poured into a very small section of the city. So you've got you know a lot of what's getting good value. Is that downtown midtown core of Midtown is sort of the the University Medical Center and that's where the light rail will go right through the middle of that. And then you know the neighborhoods they're first talking about fixing or kind of you know coming off of that but the vast vast majority of the city is just you know has been ignored for decades and decades and that's going all the way back to you know the seventy's in the eighty's with with mayors like call common young that was the rap on him to building things like the Renaissance Center and in ignoring the neighborhoods and and so I think there's there's quite a bit of cynicism about this kind of top down top down plan but there's also some you know justifiable cynicism about whether there will ever be money to really do it you know outside of what these private foundations and you know rich investors like Dan Gelber decide they want to fund All right great. Well thank you all for coming. Thank you.