It's not pleasant Jim Korman
from the New York Times.

Received especially.

In English Literature from France
in the lead in seventy one

since then he's written for

a number of magazines including The New
Yorker the Atlantic New York magazine

New York Times magazine he's been editor
of The New York Times says he's known for

his sense of humor and he's honestly
the most chill famous guy I've ever met.

So it's my pleasure to just come
let's have a round of applause.

Thank you I think I'm
probably the least famous.

But.

I was actually editor of
The Whole New York Times.

By that I was he said
I was head of science.

Which is part it's the most important
part of any kind you know but.

So sacrifies tape
explaining finds you know.

Basically have to do is
tell you about myself and

what you know reporters life is like
explaining science and then I talk about.

How things have changed for
kind of written.

A little bit about the series I do rich
Georgia Tech often provides material.

And how those things are put together and
some of the things that.

Some of the tools and
explain things so basically.

I'm going to use this.

Technology section so it's really pathetic
that I'm so technologically it but

just to show you how to become
a science writer my first job was.

I work.

In this paper called The things
I'm telling times and I do.

I don't recall writing anything
about science through them but

there were a lot of room stare
was it was very far away so

perhaps that's where my
interest in animals came from

I later moved to this is my brain by
the way I think there was that went to.

The card from the Scientist magazine and
I started writing about science because

I like you and I do like certain
the kind that are back and

forth I don't know if you've noticed but
covering and sort of a normal.

Kind of journalism there's often
a real adversarial relationship

between the parents and the people they
write about I mean that not always but

it happens and I think that kind of
combative interaction last in my case that

I like interviewing scientists about their
ideas and what they were trying to do and

figure out they were showing
interest in talking to me and

I like talking to them sort of that was
much better at the New York Times I've

done a lot of different things I won't
go through the whole list of them but

one thing I was covering science as
one of the exciting things I got to

spend about four or
five hours doing various To send an M.R.I.

machine they didn't come
up with a name for it but

they said to me this beautiful
picture that I get to show.

I was so
covered experimentation I know the most.

I cover a lot of like change and
what's been happening with chimpanzees

they've essentially been face that
required medical research I get to try

were a bit too exciting so I have gotten
spots like this this is a time where

near Churchill Manitoba are often
a lot of poor bears and so

I got to spend quite a few days up there
somebody has to be really to carry a gun

if there are if you're in polar bear
territory and you walk around through

the road Bush is saying things
like hey hey hey bear because.

Presumably if the bear is here.

That requires a certain act of faith
to prove that but I have a bit.

It was kind of I've never had so
much difficulty so are through and

I get that I know who it is to play ups.

OK I guess place I never walk
let's put it that way and

here's an example of why this whole

thing extremely good photographer and
videographer who is with us.

Is nothing to do with explaining time for

the public just the fun
you get that he is trying.

To get out of the box carrying
a very expensive camera Iraq

as well as he doesn't get out so

that's really all you need to
know to show you some of it all.

Some of the exciting things you get to
do as a science writer this is say in

Wyoming where I was writing about
migrations of the earth and they had.

Helicopters and

they go out there with something
called Net bending which was invented.

And somebody shoots a net at.

Who's running somebody jumps out of
the helicopter it's like a little Rubio

saying they kind of I'm tired with
a laptop and burlap and then fly and

a helicopter and these guys proved how
to psych they were writing dirt bikes or

something like that I didn't get to
go up in a helicopter but the same.

Photographer did however when one of the
people almost fell out of that helicopter

and he kept filming they got mad at him
and they wouldn't let him back in or.

This was actually a great trip I got to
go to Alaska that's a Brooks Range with.

Biologists who are looking for

Arctic bumblebees they want to sort of get
a baseline of climate change goes on for

what could have been steady
there very much a little bit but

there are there is a number
there are a few others and

I think with some very serious
scientists and things is when you go.

So this is the leader of
the trip Dr Howard Woodard.

When you get to go I'm going
to get to know scientists and

in an informal way I actually have
permission from Hollis to say this but

it was in the New York Times anyway we
drove the length that they had never seen

the show Ice Road Truckers anyone OK So
that way we drove that way in the summer

with sort of a dust road truckers that
was our car at the at the end of it and

I get to rule important you know ground
breaking earth shaking stories like

about world peace and I managed to when
I found that I had the chance to go and

spend time watching people.

Socialize with Poppy's I managed
to find a scientific reason

that this would be a good story.

Which is the difference between.

They're trying to figure out
the difference between wolves and

dogs one of the same
puppies about a week later.

And so they were taking
their side are looking for

genetic differences or the genes
being turned down enough so that.

I don't always get to travel sometimes
I have to sit in my office and you know

write stories like this one I'm
a phone and as you can see up and

tend to run into some humor and
into it which I don't think Latham's

portions of the science in fact I think it
gets right to search the squid are pretty.

Pretty amazing because they read so and

they see other squid and
they're species so

intrigued currently that they don't bother
to check whether the squid are male or

female or even if they are the same
species necessarily they just fire out.

Fire darts out of sperm and

they stick in the skin and I repeat
if they're lucky if they have them.

And then things take their
course from there so

that's not an important story a dead now.

Presentation satisfies I'm good.

It is.

Partly to do with the fact that you know.

With fly work with some
of the Flies later and

in terms of popularising science you
look for exciting stories sexy stories

often sex people have been
absolutely remarkable appetite for

hearing about how animals from
spider to baboons have sex so.

What they do about it and this story never
said it was Think for a couple reasons it.

Was a story about.

What but also sort of social structure and
about truth and

who gets many opportunities and
I wrote this story

it was about a researcher at Princeton and
teaching a journalism course there and

I bought the researcher so that the two
of us could top two students and

I could explain sort of what my
agenda was has it turned west and

she could talk about what her
agenda was as a scientist and

how to nurse because despite me
saying that you know I wanted

to get into the friendly
world of science journalism

where I would be you know finding out what
scientists are doing and talking about it.

And the two things don't always
converge we're always looking for

a good story something and we're always
looking to have a little fun with it and

at the same time we have to make sure that
we get it right the scientists are always

looking for attention for their stories
because they want the public to know what

they're doing scientific information is
valuable it's also just as helpful for

a journalist to write good stories helpful
for scientists to have them covered so.

I thought that everything I found that
that there was one area which this story.

This is That was the research
paper this is the story that

I found there was one area where I

turned out I didn't get it right I
checked everything with her I was very.

Careful and afterwards you know she was
and I talk about it because we want to

have a little fun at the top and then we
get to the serious stuff check on my joke.

Things I was going to throw around and
it turned out there was one area that

didn't quite work out the basic idea
here was that for me it was almost

all remaining opportunities for most
of them and they may i was get so many.

Better mascots and

they had much lower stress because
the alpha males had to keep.

Trying to thread prevent other people from
having mating opportunities and I had to

sort of fend off Subarus and challengers
they had a lot to worry about with time.

Whereas the beta males they were.

There for men was distracted or too busy
then they might have mating opportunities

so I started thinking why am I
going to tell racin make this.

And at the time people were
talking about beta males as a kind

of alternative in human society
this is not scientific thought but

you got the alpha males right and
my day will shine Connery but I have to

do this for the younger generations
this guy's probably already too old.

For you guys but you can tally
is an alpha male because now.

There's a beta male who
are a kind of nice guy.

They are there isn't material you know
they are familiar with this is maybe

a bad way and then the beta male if
they take out the garbage bags are very

responsible they pay the mortgages
they write everything just right so

I have a major way describe
it with this to say that

if you think of beta males getting
more mating opportunities than.

When the alpha males are distracted
it's like the Alpha Male

gets in a fight in the bar and.

The beta male.

Alpha males.

And.

From there it was there proving he's an
alpha male Well it turns out that that was

OK but.

Now we were correct in that
beta males are not nice or

in any way then how females are just
number two in line that's hot.

Spot on the stereotypes I
was talking about you know

the beta males a nicer guy nothing.

Bad I just number two in
the hierarchy that's all they share

the same personality they.

Use when it comes to mating so
it was from Iraq that.

Touched me was that I could probably.

You know my start of a fire this
with scientists before I do it but.

I think it really makes kind of
a little bit of a disconnect

you know the scientist wants
as much detail as possible

that turn on a star response
as good a story it's possible.

That was then.

When people ask some questions and write
down what they say that will be it and

call people up like David who and
ask questions and

pass crew videotape and
maybe send a videographer and

we try to put together something like
this series that I do now I'm the sort

of August narrator writer of something
called science taken these are two minute

video features that were true to try to.

Capture this sort of
science in process and

use the video format to explain
science to people and also to attract

people who might not otherwise read about
it at first but this was going to be

just dumbing down everything because two
minute video how much can you explain but

in this case we were able to use the video
and make who can share a little bit of it.

And if.

You can ask questions during the ad and
I can tell you where to book the trip

that the it is for
on there with the recent survey.

So there was a good things that the New
York Times is interested in is making

money of course to keep going and
unfortunately instead of when you read

the paper the ads are there with videos
there's an ad in front of everyone but

this is the play a little bit of this.

This is.

All.

These Rubio was much more aggressive in.

These battles sneakers you're out what
males me what their running mates were.

In.

Her.

You know.

Once.

Its neighbors were.

On.

You.

That was.

So any rate case with.

Some pretty interesting video I mean they
go with something that you haven't seen

before so
I mean fries tough one like that either

it's immediately attractive it's fun it's
kind it's about facts these are fighting

you know over mating opportunities and
so it was it was people then but

at the same time we were able to talk
about without getting into the details

of explaining it which is one of the ways
that you try and present to the public.

To talk about an incredibly complicated
process of research where they identified

not only big but the sections in
the brain and specific neurons and

one of them to be has surprised me
as I've been doing this is that.

Except the scientists have generally been

impressed then sort of happy with what
I was worried was very dumbed down and

then glad because they're reaching
a bigger audience I think I.

May have.

I actually flipped things
here what I was going to say

was that the rule was that you
know I sort of tried to follow and

were trained by here who is a scientist or
contemplating being a scientist and

you're thinking about
communicating with the power but.

Really pretty simple Rebecca
is in the execution.

But thing is you think of your
audience who is your audience and

you have to speak to them in
the language that they understand so

you're cutting out technical jargon.

Second is simplicity make it is
straightforward is possible.

When there's something really
complicated like I could do and

that makes were involved and all sorts of
other tools that they thought we could

say and it was an incredibly complicated
process in order to get to this research

metaphor it was you compare for
instance the.

From A to Daniel Craig beta
male to Peter Parker and

sometimes that works and
sometimes it doesn't and

finally as I was saying before
you know you look for fun and go.

Into science take I don't
know how I got that.

I got that fly in there on the fly baby
that was supposed to come afterwards but

anyway so what we've been and
we're reading

writing a story where are we about the
simplicity of writing using metaphors and

some shameless hamming it up I've been
doing this now for almost five years and

I think that the only reason I have the
job of being the person who appears for

a couple of seconds the in the video is
that is that I'm willing to try anything

so when they ask me to talk to me or lower
voice or be a little more animated or

less animated or
do something different and so stand to.

Stand on him or them or
their hands too much looks.

They took the camera and the emanated and.

That was hard for me to write because
I walk around and wave my hands and so

on but this this one I actually
enjoyed I kind of like snakes and

it wasn't for natural science fake it
was for a promo where we went down and

I want to say you know science they can
see the science they could find if you

like science not too squeamish you know
rocket science take afterwards I thought

so that's a cat by the way
right there the cat and

the snake looking at each
other that was some fun.

But I wonder if it's a good role model for
the New York Times reporter.

Trying to get like a high school
middle school right to be shown

the constrictor great around his neck so.

Don't do it it's probably not that
find it was a very nice night.

In terms of attracting
interest with science take.

Ten to use animals because people like
them and there's often more video of them.

Were very fond of spiders.

For one thing.

And.

Creepy creepy works just as well as
cute again they have a very strange

sexual practices which people love to read
about you know sometimes the male star and

so on and so forth.

We were spiders and
snakes and rats this is

this is an example worth
getting a video that.

Show you something that you haven't seen
before and this you have seen before.

And after the way through
this particular hotel but.

Snakes this is this is really bad.

The rats you.

Know.

My mood actually.

There.

With.

The.

Writer of rock.

What.

Are.

The.

Things that are.

Wrong with.

That.

That.

Was.

There.

That are good to have and to.

Anyway that's one of my favorites because
what's really exciting about the video

sometimes to get really beautiful
video of the twenty fourth watch but

to me what's really exciting about
that to be a similar to the five video

is that it's something you've never
seen before so it's really and

it's actually something that was part
of the process of the research so

I felt like there were kind of you
know in ten enticing the viewer with

with kind of you know intellectual
can you know watch a school video and

get something pretty were also offering
them a glimpse of what scientists like and

process so the people who watch that
see what the researchers who are seeing

if you read a print story editor just
see a picture you'll hear about it but

you want to actually
see you know the snake

striking in the rat defending itself or
showing off so

I mean that I think is one of the ways
that science take is pretty good now

to show you what goes into sort
of that one of the things that

strikes me that most people don't know
about sort of science information

science communication is what a stream of
information is I mean how where is it come

from how does it start how is it finally
put together roost so that's something

that I'm going to talk about with the
hummingbird video which we did recently.

With.

These things have gotten
all shifted around

see I was going to mention
before the Georgia Tech.

But which we did with
Richard babies group so

in any case I'll just go
straight to the I'm going bird.

When the hummingbird I'll show you
a little bit hummingbird video so

you get a taste of it.

Just click on it.

So this is that this is a.

New movie about a year back to see if.

There's a better sort of energy
budgets of hummingbirds and

they run on a very tight budget they do so
much energy that they're

often right right like a night's
through Peron night's sleep take.

The high.

One.

Well.

These are.

All.

We.

Know it's an old school or.

So.

I say the rest of the city and but
I think one talk about is how this.

How this came about.

It really did we get the information so

the first step in this is that there
was a scientific publication but

the scientific publication was promoted
on a site called the RICO alert

which is where university and
public information people.

Put I want to get to that.

I can.

So in any case I saw a release on your
record I work with a producer I sent for

release to the producer and
said What do you think of this video so

he said OK The video looks great
is the story good enough and

in this case it was fascinating and
afterward another story was kind of.

The actual finding it in the end or

a small we decided that it was worth it so
the actual discovery here was not and

this is sometimes worries me about
what we do with the picture.

And I'll tell you why I have
come to terms with it but

the Yanks were finding was that.

That I mean birds are more fish and.

Yet energy use than
smaller hummingbirds So

that's not such a huge thing that's not.

That's not surprising or not surprising
to me I didn't have a thought one way or

the other probably wouldn't
have covered that.

If through just thinking is this
new rooms I mean if you print days

room said OK we're going to write a whole
story and put a fair amount of effort into

this you know a couple of days
work to do that said no but

since we have video and the video is
terrific we do and we I think you meant

in my mind was justified this myself
this is this is the salary I guess.

It's real.

But there is that it's a you know how do
you think of their own information so

they carry a lot of information and
again what I said before I think about

the process of science and
you'll see things that you really imagine

that researchers were able to do in
this video in the in terms of the race.

They test hummingbirds and then it's
half seems to me to be worth it I mean

the fact that we're providing a lot of
these things are sort of interaction I

want to take exciting you know this side
of it entertainment you know sort of.

Carbon cut bait but they're there

they're fun they're things that
are that are interesting to look at so.

I don't know if the slides
are going to work for this but.

OK You know I have several
that I want to go to.

First now the first one I want
to show is sort of after we got

the video after I interviewed scientists
and I got a transcript of it but

before Stang was that I think
this may be no that's not it.

Never restore them.

In the folder.

When I'm trying to find.

It sort of a suggestion of
how we're going to do that

where the producer tells me
what he wants me to say and

which I was irritated me but
that's just my good rate here.

The discipline.

That one writes here yeah.

Listen this is the structure of how we.

Are here and there is

a structure of how we put together
a script and we go through several.

And get that.

Wrong and right.

Now that's that's sort of
the final interview so

if you could look at that
one just one of these

the press want to I mean good structure
guy that's the one that I'm looking for.

When.

Here we go then this is

the producers who snuck through
the paper into me and who facing.

These are the things we want to know about
and this is how we could describe it and

if we can go up a little.

Doctoring me how I should write it
what pictures we might be able to show

what the images are.

And so on and then he thought for
a family of these wonderful little

patients which are just placeholders for
my.

Reaction to that was to
produce my own version which.

Rewrites.

And has other suggestions on and
then I will write it again.

No you go through about three or
four drafts and then YES to put together

Lydia So what goes into this and I also
include a scientist and end up doing.

And article in a Q.

Rene on that so.

I didn't kind of organised organized.

As well as the show.

Is that there's a rather more
kind of lot of back and forth and

ends up coming out somewhat different
than you expected in the end so

I'll show you the rest of the good video
now you can see yeah how it turned.

The story is no one was on the earth and
well for.

The point of it we have.

To hear where it.

Was.

Under the most the most
of this will be sure the.

Same thing you know now that is.

All who does not know.

What you mean who the.

Problems.

Are has promised to was.

Good who's human.

Hunger and spends money on duty and
there are a lot of the birds are their.

Own as.

Well.

Room.

With a lot of this new human.

Life.

Is.

Cheap Wilson is the Holocaust we.

Live here.

On the earth.

And the little birds how.

Well are.

We.

And.

With no means we are here to live.

Through the.

So the final conclusion there
we have a conclusion that was.

Originally written by the producer and
at the last and I was not comfortable read

it in the last minute I was talking to the
scientists we decided we could lose it at.

The conclusion that.

This is the limit on their science this
is how small they can get if they got any

smaller they wouldn't be able to shoot
themselves they you know they die but

that's not actually necessarily
true there are many reasons for

their size I mean there are dynamic
reasons there are lots of other things so

we went back and forth about it and

at the last minute we just said OK well
let's just say going birds are great.

Because you know I've got
the science wrong so that.

Is what I want to tell you about
the kind of work I do and how.

To try and explain science to the public
which are basically you know.

The most like videotape
thank you very much.

For any questions about the times or.

Well the story I asked the scientists
if she thought the story needed to be

corrected and
she said no she thought it was you know

it was it was in the like imagine
you know going into a bar

that it wasn't it wasn't completely
wrong so I talked it over with her and

she said she thought it was OK the way
was so we decided not to run a correction

the correction correction
usually have to be some things.

So there's three and three.

What is your opinion on late night cable
news programs that will take a story off

like a medical report and
then maybe oversell the intent.

To.

Scare like get better ratings.

I mean I think any time.

I don't know specific spend any time
you're exaggerating sort of the worst case

that's a big problem I think in
general medical reporting little

incremental often with very small
studies this kind of a problem for.

I don't think it serves
the public to report I mean.

If you're conveying
information that's good but

to report every week sort of change and
how we view the consumption of caffeine or

something like that I don't I think
that often the studies are too small for

the effects or too small I think there's
a difference actually between reporting.

My cricket sex.

And I think there's actually
a difference in terms if

a small story that finds a new
behavior in cricket you know

point out this is a small study so might
not be right but this is kind of cool

I don't think that does harm I think it
shows what scientists do and people are a.

Take it maybe it's true maybe it's not but
it's kind of interesting I think assume if

you talk about people then you're dealing
with something completely different

because if you say you know maybe
this will tell you maybe it won't but

you know twelve people
who you know drank water.

Turned out to be healthier
three days later.

Hey so I know you said that you
use metaphors to explain science

do you find there to be too many football
metaphors in popular journalism.

Thank.

You Yes I think the soccer
metaphor is my stuff.

On.

Football metaphors.

Sure yes.

Well.

You know good musing services.

You in particular in
York Times of our general.

You don't actually.

You misrepresent science in the sense
that there's a process to start.

And you're just showing stuff or
stuff it's you know it's like point one

percent of what science really is now you
know it's an impossible thing to do but.

You know that's what the Tories mean the
kids who wants to starve the thing it's

you're making things you're making
devices and science is not all about.

That and that's certainly a concern and
we try to.

Report that process when we can i mean.

Run on the things we do about science and
they are.

Sort of in depth they are the most
fun I mean we also do you

know long stories on climate science and
the process that goes into studying it.

Done stories for instance I did
a story by looking this is not

a an earth shaking topic with looking
at the evolution of dogs describing

you know the amount of D.N.A. research how
you have to you know drill something from

the particular bone in the skull
the disagreements over whether

bones found in a certain situation
in the SO sitting with either

in association with human artifacts
necessarily mean anything with so

I think that in some of the longer stories
we do our best to do that I think they

were right that in the end
we kind of can represent and

through it is or we could do better but
I think when I left.

Problems is that to that we were I was
just talking about this with some people

with lunch if you deliver
science in all its detail and

complexity to the average person
that information reaches them so

they are not informed at all because
they didn't hear anything he said.

Deliver a little tiny bit

you have inform them a little
bit the hope is maybe a poem and

more if you go into the middle as many of
our longer stories do and we have I mean.

You know ten thousand words stories on
the search for the Higgs Procyon and

how that was done in the process
that went into it so.

Bad but I think that any time you create
a story a narrative you've already

any story you pick is not the full It
doesn't do it because stories look for

characters they look for
heroes they look for

who is the main person I cannot
figure out how to write.

An interesting story that people
would read about you know twenty

thirty people in there do work in the lab
coming up to a final conclusion so.

Maybe I'm sure maybe it can be done but so

that's I take your point is
very very valid you know.

Thank you for so much for talking.

I had a couple of questions first what
do you think your biggest challenges or

the biggest challenge in science
communication is in general and

do you have any advice for
students who may be interested in.

Trying to become science communicators
Well I do because Helen seems to have been

doing this for more than forty years and
I think the level of science rigorously in

the country is is worse than probably and
I can't say I think that's my fault.

But actually I wonder you know it seems to
me that scientists are working harder and

harder to if you look at
the university websites and

foundations to put out the material you
know in an understandable way journal

there are fewer science journalists but
there are more scientists who are writing

their own putting forth their own material
and universities are doing more and yet.

The scientific illiteracy is
ruin is really bad and so

that seems to me to be
the biggest challenge and.

How we can solve that the challenge
in the end and in a smaller way.

Is really how to write the more
serious stories I mean I dead.

I mean the Times is very rocky so
we have about twenty reporters and

we have many friends who say and I'm kind
of the class clown so you can't take

what I do as completely representative but
everybody else I mean I do some.

Serious writing also and have done I spent
a couple years reporting on their science

but I said I spent two years covering
neuroscience and reporting everything and

great detail and talking about
the process and the difficulty of time.

To get a mechanistic
understanding of the brain and

the various techniques of people
both in terms of the technology and

trying to get a little bit of the math and
those stories got very little

attention compared to when you run
a story you know that that's fun and

visual and then said That's which is to
put which is what you were saying and

that is a challenge that I
don't know the answer to

I mean I would say read if you
are interested in science communication.

And there are fewer like salary paying
full salary jobs than there used to

be because many organizations got them but
there are more opportunities than there

ever were because it's easier to do things
on the web I would look for you know.

Basically write as much as
you can much as you can and

I don't think the answer will come
from people my generation because.

Like a lot of the people I work with
they're much more involved in innovative

kind of graphics and
those a race to tell stories and

it's possible that they're going to figure
out how to both get the attention and

convey a lot of information
at the same time.

So I mean I would try to
do as much as you can for

whoever you can I would
definitely not a newer.

And I will have a kid here
was a former reporter for

The New York Times is one
of the pioneers of the.

Thing was one of the first people to.

Put up a story and I would say
we're still lag behind in terms of

things that he's done but
I like a document and allow

scientists from different perspectives
to comment on the document and

I think those are the kind of said in
the end are going to attract two point.

Young people and people like Andy.

Figuring that out more and more.

Yeah I'm sorry.

OK So you were talking about
this last bit that you did that

there wasn't much comports behind it and
I mean I was that it was like.

You said it wasn't like a spider was I
thought that he was found to originally

said like you like that and it's like
a shoot minute and forty second video so

I said it was like this all the time on
You Tube I did National Geographic and

I do something that's a media that we
should be looking for like videos like

this like show that the importance in
like that but they're covering well.

I would say because sources are I mean
at the end of all our videos the.

Journal articles.

Are mentioned named and so on so.

That I would look for

I mean where did this come from where
did this information come from.

That.

Well.

Somebody has to him and.

I don't think that necessarily I mean I
think you have to separate out two things

this is the style in which
the story is told and

then there's the information that's
conveyed so I think that all you can do

is pay attention to the information
that's conveyed you know accurately and

what the source of that
information is the respect I mean

mostly I think enjoy I mean if you're
looking for something that thier something

is going to thank or something like that
I mean that that's a big problem but

in terms of I think with just the thing
where you would read a story here

if you read something you'd think well
OK we're bad information come from

there is that do I think that's a credible
source how much of it did they give me.

I've been really impressed by
some efforts pressed my side of.

The Atlantic who's been very purposeful
and diversifying their sources so

you might think about the people
that you feature as well as the for

example quoting opportunities
is there a policy in place or

aspirational model formally in place at
the New York Times within your division to

increase interest representation
of the people you feature and.

This is not a formal policy but.

General business that
the editors of expressed some

of the reporters all
know about not just find

white men old white men you know
to find women and people of color.

No formal policy but.

You know I don't know if.

Then.

I take a slightly different tactic so I.

Look at all the amazing things
that nature does but I.

Then show a design that was
inspired by the example of

Kingfisher when it die into
the water it makes no real.

Shape kingfish it was taken and
nose cone of the concert

high speed train so that when it goes
tunneling comes out of the tunnel that

bang no longer occurs so I think

you can show all the beautiful things that
you see in nature but if you give it.

A design human uses you
might pull some other.

Interests OK.

Good idea and we will.

Talk about that.

Unfortunately.

Over animal locomotion there
again I'm going to sign

the end result is this might help people
this time there were about you know so.

But yes we'll look for more calls right OK

yeah I presume you have data that
shows that many of your readers

and your articles years test
is it possible to have some

longer term narratives follow certain
areas such as search for exoplanets.

Like crisper and you can just take
a little pieces are one of them.

If you open the story in America.

So you're suggesting that we create.

A different kind of format or
no I'm presuming that you have articles.

I mean.

Rather having long.

Ten page articles you just have.

An articles over two or three year
period focus on the development and

the advances in particular areas.

That's good I mean.

This paper has gone back and
forth between.

Reporting the.

Incremental but our men say we're
going to do the big stories and

then we've done both it's not
because they were you know set up in

a specific structure like you're
suggesting I think but it's a good idea.

Well.

How much labor.

In total maybe.

Twenty.

Right so the question is what you know how
much effort goes into the two minute video

it's basically I'm from my part of
it it's kind of a half time job.

I spend half of my time working on this so
it's like.

It's two to three days I would say and
then for the producer

it's two to three days so it's rough
it's tough we really could work.

I mean there are other people who
are supervising who look over things

that people here and there really
are sensually to people to put together.

And do their work I'd say
introduce takes about a week

is there anything scientists can do right
in the original research article or

maybe Journal student selves to help
facilitate communication the public or

facilitate what you do to
communicate findings to the public

Well I don't know about the constraints
of a scientific article.

Are Different really so different
from what the nonscientific person

would read I don't know what you
can do in there and from what I've

heard talking to scientists I mean
they're already constrained too often to

construct the story in the way they're
presenting depending on the journal.

The journals often.

Essays about their articles which is I
think helpful to the general public it

seems to me that anybody and
technical who's doing original work and

you know scientific and technical
should find their own way to reach out

to the public and
you don't need to depend on journalists.

You know you have the Web Yeah.

And I mean I interviewed a.

Microbiologist Bonnie Bassler has.

Attacked her quite a bit at
Princeton University and she.

Takes every opportunity possible to go I
mean she's the chairman of the department

there she's And he's very very a federal
you know boards that she takes to go and

talk at the local talk a.

Little.

Head edition to talking a national
conference basically that's everything she

possibly can to present you know
sort of the Ted always things

and then I mean it's there's no
reason why scientists shouldn't take.

Control of putting information out
there themselves I mean admittedly

we have things like The New York Times
which reach a wider audience but

then you see scientists who.

Write books that are just you know.

Receive great attention so

I guess that what I mean I have been
talking with David and there's a.

Program.

Run I think it's called the Alan Alda
center at Stony Brook University

where they're pushing and I think this
is a great idea think that like every

student who takes advanced work and
finance or technical fields

of some kind of course about communicating
their ideas to non-scientists and

it's not just it's not just to the public
it's not just for news coverage but

you know you have to talk to the people
who are getting your grain and

see you need to talk to whatever other
agencies you might be involved with I mean

just in general be able to switch your
brain to talk to a different audience and

that's the main thing is what how
can I frame it for this audience so

that they will understand it and I can get
my point across I mean that I that's all

through the guy but I think a course like
that and not just writing because writing

is now only one part of it would
be really you know really good.

That you mentioned literacy rates
scientific literacy rates have

been going down so I was just curious
how you can tell that they're going to

I don't I actually don't have data for

that it's just surveys that I've
seen where people talk about.

You know in other news
articles talk about.

The number of people who believe.

In evolution or disproving evolution and

they're either so it was status scientific
theories and I can't cite you chapter and

verse but my impression is that
it's decreased so I could be wrong.

On that thank you thank you.