PARRY: Boy, that sounds real exciting. LYDIA: It's not-- it's not exciting at all. PARRY: Why not? That's, I mean, your calculations determine whether a book is published or not. It-- maybe it's a book that changes the way people think or act. LYDIA: Yeah, but what we publish is mostly trashy romance novels. PARRY: Don't say that. There's nothing trashy about romance. [GUITAR MUSIC] CHARLIE BENNETT: You are listening to WREK Atlanta and this is Lost in the Stacks, the research library rock and roll radio show. I'm Charlie Bennett, in the studio with Fred Rascoe, Marlee Givens, and the end of a not quite jazz jazz shift. FRED RASCOE: Congratulations, Tobias. That's right. Each week on Lost in the Stacks, we pick a theme and then use it to create a mix of music and library talk. Whichever you are here for, we hope you dig it. MARLEE GIVENS: Our show today is called "This is a Fine Romance" novel. CHARLIE BENNETT: We've had a few shows over the years in which we've talked to authors about their writing process FRED RASCOE: But I think this is the first time that the topic of that writing process will be the romance genre. Do either of much about romance novels? MARLEE GIVENS: No. CHARLIE BENNETT: I'm sure everything I know about romance novels is wrong. FRED RASCOE: Yeah. So I don't know anything, either. Which is why we brought in a person who has written one. CHARLIE BENNETT: Nice. MARLEE GIVENS: Yeah. And we're going to be picking the brain of Tatianna Richardson, someone that we at the Georgia Tech Library have worked closely with for years before we even knew, or ever knew, about her writing talents. FRED RASCOE: And our songs today are all about what else? Love and romance. And while we may not have known that she was an author until very recently, I did happen to know that Tatianna is very much into classic Brazilian samba and bossa nova. And there's lots of good love songs in that category, right? So let's start with one of the ultimate classics. This is called "Corcovado" by João Gilberto. Right here, on Lost in the Stacks. [MUSIC PLAYING, "Corcovado", JOAO GILBERTO] FRED RASCOE: That was Corcovado by João Gilberto. And this is Lost in the Stacks, and today's show is called "This is a Fine Romance". And our guest today is Tatianna Richardson. She is not only our colleague from the Georgia Tech Office of Graduate Education, she is also an author of the brand new romance novel, The Build Up, published by Carina Press. Tatianna, welcome to the show. TATIANNA RICHARDSON: Thank you for having me. FRED RASCOE: And I should acknowledge that there may be some rock music that we hear in the background every so often during our interview. It sounds like there's a-- in our studio here at the Student Center, there's a rock band practicing next door. It doesn't sound very romantic. TATIANNA RICHARDSON: No, no. Not really. FRED RASCOE: Yeah. TATIANNA RICHARDSON: But it depends on who you're asking, though. FRED RASCOE: It'll give us some ambiance. TATIANNA RICHARDSON: Yes. FRED RASCOE: Right? OK. So Tatianna, welcome again. And I have been working with you here at Georgia Tech for a while. TATIANNA RICHARDSON: Like 10 years. FRED RASCOE: Something like that. And we work together getting the Georgia Tech students' theses out-- theses and dissertations out and accessible to the public. And it was a while into knowing you before I realized that were a literary scholar. TATIANNA RICHARDSON: Yes. FRED RASCOE: And I, like, I've known you as a science fiction scholar. TATIANNA RICHARDSON: Yes. Yes. FRED RASCOE: And then I find out very recently, oh. I've got a romance novel coming out. And what? So if someone had told me Tatianna is coming out with a novel, I would have said, oh, probably sci-fi. TATIANNA RICHARDSON: Right. FRED RASCOE:: But it was a romance novel. TATIANNA RICHARDSON: Right. FRED RASCOE: So tell me about-- tell me about that. How did you decide to write a romance novel? TATIANNA RICHARDSON: It's funny you talk about scholarship and being a scholar. When I was going through the PhD process and working on my dissertation, like, a lot of personal things were happening with me. My mom passed away, I had a preemie. I was going through, like, all this depression. And I tried to work on my, like, dissertation, which was nothing but heavy science fiction stuff, right? And so trying to read that was like giving me, like, even more of the blues. And so the only thing that would make me happy, would come out of a funk was to actually go and read things that were happy, and spirited, and always had a happy ending, which were romance novels. So I went back to my old stack of romance novels that I had. And I started picking up some of the classic ones that I had, the Beverly Jenkins, the Brenda Jacksons, and some newer authors that I had discovered. And-- this was right before the pandemic, I think. And I was like, oh, maybe I should try and write one. And so I wrote an early draft of a novel and it was not very good. It was not very good. By all means, it was not very good. Mostly because, like you said, I am a scholar. And to be a romance author, people don't realize romance has conventions. Romance has tropes, and conventions, and mechanics, and things that you need to do in order to make a romance successful, and meaty, and engaging. And so that early draft didn't have those things. And so when I kind of decided, OK, I'm going to be serious about writing a romance, then I started to study, and join groups, and things like that to get serious about writing a romance. And so I kind of put the science fiction stuff to the side. I'm not saying I might not come back to it. But I put it to the side for now. I told my husband, I said, look, I'm going to step away from-- personally my PhD for now. Is that OK? And he said, yeah. Whatever's going to make you happy. And so I said, OK, I'm going to try and write this romance, and get very serious about writing romance, and get contracted with a traditional publishing house to write romance. And so that's what I did. I kind of spent those 2 and 1/2, three years crafting a romance that I could really be proud of and really want out there in the world. And that's what we have now with my debut novel. FRED RASCOE: So we're going to talk more about getting into your writing process. TATIANNA RICHARDSON: Sure. FRED RASCOE: But first I also want to acknowledge something else that I recently learned about you, having not known you-- know this about you after knowing you for 10 years. You are a podcast host. TATIANNA RICHARDSON: Yes. Yes. FRED RASCOE: The Romance in Color podcast, which you co-host with Yakini Etheridge. TATIANNA RICHARDSON: Yes. Yes. FRED RASCOE: And you have never mentioned that in all the years, but-- so you're definitely comfortable on a microphone. TATIANNA RICHARDSON: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. FRED RASCOE: I did notice that in your episodes in this podcast, when I checked them out, you always ask the question to your interviewees, when you're interviewing romance authors, how did you fall in love with romance? TATIANNA RICHARDSON: Yes. FRED RASCOE: So why don't we put that question to you? TATIANNA RICHARDSON: Oh boy. Tables are turning here. When did I fall in love with romance? I think when I was a kid. And my mom was-- I was always a voracious reader, so there was no book that was really off limits in my house. And so my mom had everything from Baldwin and Terry McMillan to, like, the pop culture stuff, like the Judith Krantz and the Danielle Steeles, and B.C. Andrews, and stuff like that. And so I would kind of sneak in her, like, her little reading area, because we didn't really have a office. It was a small house. It really didn't have an office, so she had like a bookshelf with all the books and stuff on it. So I pulled, like, you know, Judith Krantz. I don't know if you remember Scruples by Judith Krantz. It's a classic novel. I read that. I might have been, like, 10 or 11 or something, reading that. I had no business reading this stuff. As with most-- if you listen to most romance authors, they'll tell you we started very early reading romance novels. We were in our tweens and stuff. And so I started reading them, the Danielle Steeles, and even some of the quote, literary fiction, had romantic elements. You know, Jamie Millen, and Gloria Naylor, and some people like that have romantic elements in their stories. So I was always reading something that involved romance. But when I was about 13, 14, I remember going to the library, and I was just looking around. And that's when I discovered Beverly Jenkins, who is a classic historical fiction-- Black historical fiction romance author. And so I picked up her book, I think it was Night-- it was either Night Hawk or Night Song. I think it's Night Song. And that was like the first book, like, pure romance book that I read. I read some others, but I was like, hmm, they're OK. But this is the one that I clearly remember, like, connecting with because it was so well researched. And she's a history buff. And so it was so well researched about the West, and, like, this migration of former slaves, and people moving to the West. And there's a romantic element and all that stuff and. I just ate it up. And I couldn't get enough of it. I just started reading more and more. So yeah, that's when I really, really started falling in love with romance. MARLEE GIVENS: Yeah. I had a question about just going into the library. What was it that attracted you to the Beverly Jenkins book? TATIANNA RICHARDSON: The cover. I mean, I remember the cover because back then, there were very, very few romances with African-American people on the cover back then. And I remember that cover, because it was a guy-- guy, like, with a woman, like, in very sensual embrace. And then they had a step back. And they don't do step backs much anymore. They're trying to bring them back, but. FRED RASCOE: What is a step back? TATIANNA RICHARDSON: So a step back is when you open the-- open the book, and there's like a continuation of a cover. Like a very ornate picture. Like the cover doesn't-- FRED RASCOE:: Oh, I know exactly what you're talking about. I never knew what that was called. TATIANNA RICHARDSON: It's called a step back. So like, it's like a very little-- in the front cover is like the part that gets you there. And then when you open the step back, it's like the full scene of the cover. Like the setting and everything in the cover. So I was like, wow, this is like the first, like, romance that I've seen with, like, a Black person and a really ornate step back in it. Yeah. MARLEE GIVENS: Well, we are going to step back for a quick music break. And then we'll be back with more from Tatianna Richardson. CHARLIE BENNETT: You can file this set under-- you can probably guess where this goes in the library PN3377.5.L68M53. [GUITAR MUSIC PLAYING] MARLEE GIVENS: I want to let her finish. CHARLIE BENNETT: Whoa, whoa, whoa. MARLEE GIVENS: You just heard, "He's Sure the Boy I Love," by Darlene Love. And before, that "Solace of You," by Living Color. Songs about being the love-- oh, being with the love of your life. How romantic. FRED RASCOE: That is romantic. [MUSIC PLAYING] FRED RASCOE: This is Lost in the Stacks and today's show is called "This is a Fine Romance" Novel. Our guest is Tatianna Richardson, co-host of the Romance in Color podcast and author of The Build Up, her debut romance novel. So this is your debut novel. Romance, sci-fi, or otherwise, it's the first thing that you've written to publish. TATIANNA RICHARDSON: Yes. FRED RASCOE: But what was the first fiction you ever wrote? Is this your first foray into fiction? TATIANNA RICHARDSON: No. I mean, I've had some things published as a graduate student. I've had-- I've had some poetry, I've had some sci-fi shorts that I've had published as an undergrad-- well, I was a grad student, really. But this is, like, my first, like, major publication of fiction. Because before, I had things done with my collegiate literary magazine and stuff like that. But this is my first foray into, like, major literary folks. [LAUGHTER] We're going to see it on a shelf. [LAUGHTER] MARLEE GIVENS: Well, I know that Fred is going to ask you about your process. But I actually want to kick it off by asking about that first draft. TATIANNA RICHARDSON: Oh my gosh, yeah. MARLEE GIVENS: And how much of that did you retain, do you remember? Like, was it-- did you keep the same sort of basic plot, the basic characters? Or did you just? TATIANNA RICHARDSON: Oh, yeah. Some of the basic-- most of the basic plot is there. But I will say we go through about three or four rounds of edits. There's developmental edits, there are copy edits, there's proofreading. All those things help to craft the final version of the romance novel. And so when I got those developmental edits back, which are the notes from the editor that tell you all the things that would make the plot more cohesive-- where there's plot holes, where there's time jumps, all these things to make things better. That's when you're like, OK there might be some things I need to cut out. My initial draft of the novel was so long, I joke now that I was like, yeah, I was trying to I was trying to write Tolkien-level, like, romance. It was like so long. It was like-- it was like 112k. And that is ridiculous for a romance novel. Romance novel is not supposed to be that long. It's supposed to be between maybe 50 to maybe, pushing it, 90k. But I was at like 112. And they're like, we really need to cut that down. And I got it all the way down to like maybe 91k. So that's a lot of things cut out. So a couple of crucial, you know, chapters and things were cut out, or reworked to make it a tighter plot line. But overall characters are pretty much the same. Some characters had different motivations, but overall, the plot itself is the same. Two architects who fall in love, who meet by happenstance, fall in love at work. And are trying not to fall in love and focus on their jobs. FRED RASCOE: You mentioned this early on in the interview, that when you were talking about that first draft, it wasn't just plot holes and things like that. But you missed some, like, tropes and established things TATIANNA RICHARDSON: Yes. FRED RASCOE: In romance novels. And that's something that I was thinking about in planning this-- in this interview. So, like, we started communicating about setting up this interview probably a couple of months ago. TATIANNA RICHARDSON: Right. FRED RASCOE: At that exact-- about that time, a colleague of ours in the library podcasting world-- the world is lousy with library podcasts, by the way. But Steve Thomas, who does the great Circulating Ideas podcast, he interviewed an author named Fallon Ballard. And one of the questions that he asked-- I listened to his podcast, I thought, that's what I'm going to ask Tatianna. And it was about the tropes. TATIANNA RICHARDSON: Yes. FRED RASCOE: Like, when you're writing, do you want to make sure you hit those tropes, or do you want to-- do you want to, like, maybe, I don't know if subvert is the right word, or get around them. Or do you feel like, no, I've got to have people meet, they've got to have a conflict. There's got to be some sex scenes, they've got to get together in the end. TATIANNA RICHARDSON: Yes. FRED RASCOE: That kind of thing. TATIANNA RICHARDSON: Yes. Because romance does seem formulaic, but you have to hit the tropes in order for that to be a successful romance. So if I say, this is a forced proximity friends to lovers romance, which it is, I have to have them in forced proximity. I have to have them be friends and turn into lovers. So it's important for the tropes to be, you know, hit every time you write a romance. And you have to think, even before you write a romance, or put anything down on paper, what tropes am I going to highlight in this particular work? So I may have characters together, I may have kind of a sketchy plot, but there has to-- at the heart of it, there has to be a trope. And for it to be a romance, it has to have a happily ever after, or what they call a happy for now. So you-- really it's kind of open ended, you know. But in the end it's something that's happy. FRED RASCOE: So I'm betraying my ignorance of genre fiction here, but-- TATIANNA RICHARDSON: I'm here to help. FRED RASCOE: Thank you. Because the idea that a trope has a name. TATIANNA RICHARDSON: Yes. FRED RASCOE: Forced proximity, friends to the lovers, I think you said. TATIANNA RICHARDSON: Yes. FRED RASCOE: Like that. TATIANNA RICHARDSON: Yes. FRED RASCOE: That's an established, like, any romance aficionado-- TATIANNA RICHARDSON: They would know that. Absolutely. FRED RASCOE: What are some of the other ones? TATIANNA RICHARDSON: Gosh. Enemies to lovers. Marriage of convenience, which happens often in, like, regency romances and historical romances. A lot of marriage of convenience, like, I have to marry this person in order to get this wealth, or I have to marry this person in order to not be disowned from my family, or something like that. There are second chance romances, where you meet somebody previously and then you all get back together later on. And there was a conflict why you broke up in the past, but now you're back to-- trying to get back together. There's accidental pregnancies and what people-- oops! There's a baby here. So what are we going to do? That doesn't happen so far, given the circumstances of our-- [INAUDIBLE] of our country. A lot of that-- a lot of people have kind of shied away from that. Like, look, we have preventative measures for that now. So let's not really try to do that. And so there are hundreds of tropes. Those are just a-- that's a drop in the whale of the number of tropes that we have in romance. MARLEE GIVENS: So how do you choose? TATIANNA RICHARDSON: Oh, gosh. I guess it's what do you want to say with the story is how you choose the trope. What is-- in the end, what do you want the story to evoke? What are the feelings you want to evoke? What do you want the message to be? Do you want love conquers all? Do you want that-- you should-- love is better the second time around? What overall is the theme that you want to portray? And that's how you kind of pick a trope. FRED RASCOE: Did your-- did your choice of trope come from-- you know how you mentioned before, about how you started this writing process because of some things going on in your life and your response to that. TATIANNA RICHARDSON: Right. FRED RASCOE: Is your choice of this kind of trope a response to that? Like, do you think if you had been in a different situation, you would have picked, like, a different kind of plot? Or is this just a plot that spoke to you naturally? TATIANNA RICHARDSON: I think it's just a plot that spoke to me naturally. I don't think it came out of any type of circumstances, or the trauma that I was feeling at the time. But I think it just lent well to the story that I wanted to tell, which was 40-something professional folks, in a workplace setting, who happen to meet at work. So when you're at work, it is forced proximity anyway. You're going to-- you have to go to work. You're going to see this person every day. So it's something that you can't avoid. And so it just kind of lent itself to the trope itself, but it was really the story overall that I wanted to tell, that I wanted to focus on. And the trope kind of came out of it. MARLEE GIVENS: You are listening to Lost in the Stacks, and we'll have more romance in the air on the left side of the hour. [MUSIC PLAYING] AZIZA: Hello. I am Aziza Chouni, a Moroccan Architect Associate Professor at the John H. Daniel School of Architecture, Landscape, and Urban Design at the University of Toronto. And an architect activist, active mainly in my home country of Morocco. You are listening to Lost in the Stacks on WREK Atlanta. [MUSIC PLAYING] CHARLIE BENNETT: Today's show is called, "This is a Fine Romance" Novel. As in all areas of the publishing industry, the romance genre could stand to be a little more diverse. So to set the stage for the next interview segment, let's read a little bit from an article by Madison Nankervis in Publishing Research Quarterly from last year. The article is titled, "Diversity in Romance Novels: Race, Sexuality, Neurodivergence, Disability, and Fat Representation." Nankervis writes, "Everyone has a different story, a different lived experience. We cannot just publish a handful of these stories and pat ourselves on the back for checking the boxes. The real world is full of diverse humans and our romance novels should reflect that. It is our job as readers and publishers to promote these voices and stories, to give them a platform to stand on. It rests in the hands of the publishing houses to take on these novels and put in the effort to market them. Everyone deserves to see themselves written in the pages of the book. They deserve to see that they get a happy ending, that they get love. Increasing diversity in romance novels is a necessity, not an option." All right, file this set under RG121.K3. [MUSIC PLAYING] That is, "You Need Love", by Muddy Waters and before that, "New Health Rock" by TV on the Radio. Those were songs about getting straight to the down and dirty side of love and romance. [MUSIC PLAYING] MARLEE GIVENS: This is Lost in the Stacks and our guest today is Tatianna Richardson, an academic program manager at the Graduate Office here at Georgia Tech, who has also just published her debut novel The Build Up on Karina press and hosts the romance literature podcast called Romance in Color. FRED RASCOE: So I want to move the discussion a little bit to kind of acknowledge your role as a host of the podcast Romance in Color. TATIANNA RICHARDSON: Yes. FRED RASCOE: And it's aptly named, because it focuses on authors of color in the romance genre. TATIANNA RICHARDSON: Mm-hmm. FRED RASCOE: And so you've spoken to several dozen romance authors in that podcast. It's been going for a while. I think it's in its fourth season? TATIANNA RICHARDSON: Yes, fourth season now. FRED RASCOE: Right. Is there a common thread that you're picking up from the romance authors from the BIPOC community? Like, are you hearing sort of similar stories in their experiences? TATIANNA RICHARDSON: I think the main thing that authors of color want to do with romance is one, show quote unquote mainstream society that people of color do love and, in fact, fall in love. And we love just as hard, just as passionately as any other community. But at the same time, we do have cultural nuances that are important to us, that we want to highlight in those love stories. For example, I interviewed an author-- I think Anna P. And she is Indian, but she's also queer. And she wanted to highlight stories that feature both Indian people and who happen to also be queer, which is something that's very, very niche, and very nuanced. And maybe a lot of people don't talk about it, or people in that community don't feel like they can be open and talk about it. But she wanted to create romances that highlight that. And there's a bevy of other people that I can name. My friend Georgina, who is disabled, and queer, and plus size wanted to feature women who are all those things as well. So she has sapphic romances that feature queer and neurodivergent people. So everybody wants to just have their own voice and their own experiences highlighted in the romances they create. FRED RASCOE: And that was kind of what attracted you as, I think you said a 13, 14-year-old-- just seeing that cover. TATIANNA RICHARDSON: Yeah. FRED RASCOE: With someone that looked like you. TATIANNA RICHARDSON: Yes, absolutely. Seeing Beverly Jenkins in there and like, wow. There's people writing romance, and particularly for Beverly, historical romance. So yeah. MARLEE GIVENS: Yeah. I hadn't even really thought about the impact that the cover, especially, has on choosing to read a romance novel. Especially if you're just-- if you're browsing in a library or a bookstore. TATIANNA RICHARDSON: Yes. MARLEE GIVENS: Because the story is just right there on the cover. Or the hook, I would say, is right there on the cover. TATIANNA RICHARDSON: Yes, yes. FRED RASCOE: Did hearing directly from authors in the process of your podcast influence your writing? I guess I should ask if the podcast came first and then you started to write? Because I'm not sure of the timeline of when you started. TATIANNA RICHARDSON: It's all around the same time, really. FRED RASCOE: OK. TATIANNA RICHARDSON: So it was right before the pandemic. My girlfriend, like, Yakini and I have been friends for 20 years. And we were like, we should do something. We're turning 40. We should do-- we should do something. That's really what it came out of. And she's like, yeah. I said, let's start a podcast. She's like, yeah, that sounds fun. So we started it. First it kind of was about us talking about Hallmark movies and things that we liked. And then it kind of evolved from there when I started, when I was telling her that I was going to get into writing and stuff. I said, let's add some authors in here and talk more about books, too. So we kind of mashed it all up. But yeah, it kind of started all around the same time, which I'm super grateful for. Because I've been able to highlight a lot of authors that otherwise may not have been heard of, or may not have been given a shot on maybe the other kind of mainstream romance podcasts. Because there are some out there, but they don't always highlight a lot of BIPOC authors. CFRED RASCOE: Also, that's a great strategy if you want to start writing in a particular genre. TATIANNA RICHARDSON: Yes. FRED RASCOE: Get people to come and tell you about writing in that genre. Just take notes the whole time. TATIANNA RICHARDSON: Absolutely. I definitely was a student, like, listening to people, and them telling me about their process and how they write. And I was just, like, absorbing it all in. And I had the luxury of having the former Romance Writers of America President on my podcast, who's become a good friend, LaQuette. And she told me all about her process and stuff. And people I've admired as romance authors over the years have come on. And I'm like, oh, this is super cool. I get to talk to this person whose book I've read, and it's just awesome. FRED RASCOE: As a consumer of the romance genre, what's your experience with finding representation now? I mean, you talked about going into the library as a 14-year-old, seeing covers. But now you're in it. You're an author, you're participating in it. What is your experience with representation now-- your evaluation of it? TATIANNA RICHARDSON: It's gotten better, but it can be better, if that makes sense. There's a lot more, and there are a lot more authors and divergent-- and diverse people making romance. But then you have kind of two strains. So you have one lane, which is traditionally published authors, who are, like, out of the big five publishing houses. The Simon and Schuster's, and Penguin Random House, and so on and so forth. I'm under Harper Collins. And so all of these-- that percentage of authors is very, very small. But on the other side, you have independent authors. Indie authors who are making, like, headway in representation. So I have to give it up for them, and standing on their shoulders for what they've done, as far as representation is concerned and them putting out their work. Because there are a lot of successful, really successful indie authors, who have no desire to be traditionally published. But they're doing the work of the representation that traditionally published houses are not doing. And so it's-- again, it's gotten better on the traditionally published side with the big five, but it's still a small percentage. I think The Bodice, which is a romance bookstore-- exclusively romance bookstore, does like a report on publishing and how diversity is. And when they put out their numbers, they were abysmal. Like, it's like 5% to 7% of all the romance produced in the mainstream was by people of color, or something like that. It was just really, really small. And then it gets even smaller when you talk about LGBT representation, diversity representation, and stuff like that. It just gets smaller and smaller and smaller. And so, you know, they're working on it. MARLEE GIVENS: So your book just came out. TATIANNA RICHARDSON: Mm-hmm. MARLEE GIVENS: Which means that you were finished with it a while ago. TATIANNA RICHARDSON: Oh yeah. MARLEE GIVENS: At what point did you think about your next book? TATIANNA RICHARDSON: Immediately after I finished this book. So, like, you have to keep writing. Like, you have to try to figure out what the next book is going to be. I will say this-- when I thought about the next book-- and it's going to hopefully be a follow up to this one, I had two different characters in mind that I mentioned from this book. But as soon as I got what they call ARC, or advance reader copies, out to a lot of readers who were like book bloggers, and influencers, and other authors, they kept asking about another character. Like what about him? What about him? Is he going to get a book? Oh my God, we love him. I'm like, he wasn't in the book but like two chapters. Like, why do you-- why do you want a book about him? But then I thought about it. I was like, oh, you know what? There's a lot I can do with that particular character. So I kind of shifted focus. And it was always going to be about him, but then I kind of shifted focus on who his love interest was going to be. And it's going to really be from his perspective. So yeah. FRED RASCOE: So you'll have to come back and talk to us when that one comes out. TATIANNA RICHARDSON: Yes, I will. I promise I will. FRED RASCOE: We're writing it-- we're writing it down on the calendar now, so. TATIANNA RICHARDSON: OK. FRED RASCOE: Get cracking. TATIANNA RICHARDSON: [LAUGHTER] I can't promise-- I can't tell you a date when it's going to be out. But hopefully soon. MARLEE GIVENS: Our guest today was Tatianna Richardson. She's the author of the new romance novel The Build Up, out now from Karina Press. She is also the co-host of Romance in Color, a podcast about romance literature. And if that were not enough, she is also an academic program manager in the graduate office here at Georgia Tech. Thank you so much for joining us. TATIANNA RICHARDSON: Thank you for having me. This was so awesome. I'm glad people get to learn another side of me besides being a thesis and dissertation coordinator. [LAUGHTER] FRED RASCOE: Yeah. Maybe if you'd tell us, we would know. TATIANNA RICHARDSON: I know. I'm so shy about it, but yeah, yeah. I will. I promise, I'll talk about it more. [MUSIC PLAYING] MARLEE GIVENS: File this set under NC1429.G18A4. [MUSIC PLAYING] FRED RASCOE: A fine romance, by Joe Williams singing with the Count Basie Orchestra. CHARLIE BENNETT: Now I understand the title of the show, Fred. You didn't tell me. FRED RASCOE: This is "A Fine Romance" Novel. CHARLIE BENNETT: I didn't say it right before. Can we go back and redo the show? FRED RASCOE: Before that was, "So I Can See You," by Coby Sey and Tone, and "I Hate Being in Love" by Amy and the Angels. Songs about things that make a romance go wrong and the longing to make it right. [MUSIC PLAYING] Today's show was called, "This is a Fine Romance" Novel. Do you want to try it that time, Charlie? CHARLIE BENNETT: No. FRED RASCOE: OK. And I think we established that everything we learned about romance novels was pretty new to us, right? Fair to say, right? I think. MARLEE GIVENS: Yeah. CHARLIE BENNETT: Yeah, Fred. FRED RASCOE: So right now, though, I want to explore our favorite genres, maybe, that we do know something about. Marlee, is there a particular book genre that you enjoy specifically? MARLEE GIVENS: No, no. I just go back to authors that I like. I like their prose, you know. But I do-- I think I have, in the past, gone back to a lot of humorous memoirs. I really enjoy that. And travel writing. CHARLIE BENNETT: You can't pull a genre out of the cluster of authors you really like? There's not, like, a vein of your favorites? MARLEE GIVENS: I don't think so. Maybe they're all English speaking? [LAUGHTER] FRED RASCOE: That's a category. MARLEE GIVENS: Fiction. I mean, it's fiction, non-fiction. It's all kinds of stuff. But enough about me. How about you, Fred? FRED RASCOE: Not fiction, as I've said on the show before. At least not in recent years. But I like music biographies a lot. Songs about artists, songs about bands, songs about-- CHARLIE BENNETT: You're saying songs, but you mean books, don't you? FRED RASCOE: Yeah, books. Books about artists, books. CHARLIE BENNETT: It's funny, that slippage, right? Like, this is how we think about the music we like, too. FRED RASCOE: Right, yeah. Even-- and scenes. Cultural movements around music. Anything about music I would like to read. I don't exclusively read stuff about music, but I won't turn anything down. CHARLIE BENNETT: It's an easy way to distract you is to throw a music biography at you. FRED RASCOE: Yeah, I'll read it. CHARLIE BENNETT: Here's acid for the children, man. FRED RASCOE: Like it, don't like it, you know, I'll read it anyway. How about you, Charlie? CHARLIE BENNETT: My favorite genre of book is Dance at the Slaughterhouse by Lawrence Block. FRED RASCOE: So your genre is a particular book. CHARLIE BENNETT: There was-- so this happened. I was a young man and I read A Dance at the Slaughterhouse by Lawrence Block, which is a New York private eye novel. But it's not so much a private eye, how does he find out who killed the person and gets hit on the head and then wakes up tied up somewhere. You know, like, that procedural style. It's a portrait of the city. And it's a deep dive into this kind of criminal mindset that is almost Neitzsche-ian and perverse. And any-- I've been chasing that high-- books like that. So a lot of Scandinavian noir. You know, all the other books in Lawrence Block's Matthew Scudder series. I love a detective who is deeply in love with wherever they live and hates themselves. FRED RASCOE: I wish you good luck in the chase for that dragon's tail. CHARLIE BENNETT: Every once in a while, you find something that does it for you. Let's just roll the credits, man. [MUSIC PLAYING] FRED RASCOE: Lost in the Stacks is a collaboration between WREK Atlanta and the Georgia Tech Library, written and produced by Charlie Bennett, Fred Rascoe and Marlee Givens. MARLEE GIVENS: Legal counsel and a 45 of Jackson Browns lawyers and love were provided by Burrus Intellectual Property Law Group in Atlanta, Georgia. CHARLIE BENNETT: That's a good one. Special thanks to Tatianna for being on the show, to romance writers making sure that there are stories for everyone. And thanks, as always, to each and every one of you for listening. MARLEE GIVENS: You can find us online at lostinthestacks.org. And you can find our podcast out there in the podcast world. CHARLIE BENNETT: Next week-- and this is going to be a bit of an abrupt mood shift, we're going to talk about confronting white nationalism in libraries. FRED RASCOE: Yeah, that'll be a heavy one for sure. But for now, it's time for our last song today. And we're going to try to send you away into the weekend in the mood for love. CHARLIE BENNETT: Aw, Fred. FRED RASCOE: Now there are some great singers known for creating a, shall we say, a seductive ambience with their songs. CHARLIE BENNETT: You mean like Etta James? FRED RASCOE: Yeah. MARLEE GIVENS: Barry White, Luther Vandross. FRED RASCOE: Yeah. Those are all at the top of the list. But for me, it's got to be Al Green. CHARLIE BENNETT: Oh my. FRED RASCOE: So let's ease on into the weekend on the velvet voice of Al Green singing, "I'm Glad You're Mine", right here on Lost in the Stacks. Have a great weekend everyone. [MUSIC PLAYING]