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>> But then they saw a government of national unity then also the council of state all of these almost all of these government governmental administrations were responsible to seek resolution. Of the peace process and then long term solution and that is. Where the UN the United States would do if you and all of these people were involved so it was not just the responsibility alone of the government which I was in that I was an advisor but it was an international issue.

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But we were. Committed. To seeing that peace is brought to light people are realizing that it would not be proper for us to substitute Liberian. Just like you to petition with that of foreigners so we were present and we want to capitals all over. My last question. So it can it cannot be said that we failed to.

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Provide the necessary advice that would bring peace to Liberia simply because. One of the critical issues in the Liberian war was ethnicity and try. OK My last question is a witness the one thousand it is five. Elections were widely believed to have been wheat by the end of Dilip president some here do can you give us your can take the view on this what do you really think do you think the N.D.P. I told you one that you election.

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Mr Whitney's Yeah that's right and I know that you know people here and I have I can see I can. I think I can speak louder. So if I can speak louder which is what. He can hear you too OK I was shouting I didn't want to appear rude OK I miss eyewitness.

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Mr Witness Yes I was asking you to ninety eight in five elections. It was the president's son you do a clean victory but it was widely believed that the elections were read by the N.D.P. L Can you give me a chemical about this do you think the N.D.P. and Mr DELGADO we had a one hundred ninety eight a five elections.

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I can tell you this I have no evidence actually being raped. I do not have as a matter of fact what I can say is that the Constitution and the political process introduced by the military by the military government brought to light the record. There the issue of peaceful pollute peaceful political process that brought into Liberia.

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Ten your president your more two party system on and have on the African continent that was notorious for lifetime presidencies and one party state. So I did not see the evidence if I have seen the evidence of I have the evidence that it was Rick or Yes Woodrow would but I did not see the evidence it was set.

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And for a time Magna Timex in New York Newsweek came out with which came out with a report that said that. It is it is remarkable. That the Liberian government could have this result in the light of the tremendous odds. Tickers that the people face. Thank you. Thank you very much it's about John.

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How would you characterize the regime of some ill dog despotic through Nicol the novelist which won the regime of Samuel Doe How would you characterize it one hundred cite. Above military and civilian. I would you characterize a despotic tyrannical novel and progressive I gave you I gave you the.

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Analysis my experience to. A nightmare be an exciting. Laboratory of. Student of political science. That tells you that I did not I do not believe that it was risk it was receptive to date issues of liberal democracy. And were given given the fact that you served in this government to legitimize Yes you have I said in the capacity of a political and economic advisor So again that.

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You and I know that in here applies if I see relationship. The. Performance is characterized by division of labor all I do right I say if you want if you want to go to gata. You want to drive you want to walk want to fly he said of consequences.

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That you actually teach or you have to secure make the pick pick pick pick which one you want. There's nothing I can do about it. So I give the backdrop. We do share blame for the. Failures do what would you share blame for its failures do I personally yeah would you accept I like to share blame for him you say so because you see most boys being at prices with implementers death for it is said you are to blame of course there is nothing I can do about it I'm not running away from offering advice for example the issue of the observer.

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Takeover closely observed. And I wrote a scathing memorandum. That their press report what he sees at press is necessary in a functioning democracy because it is the eyes and ears of the government closing it is inappropriate I would suspect that. The disk decided problems you have you have to face the realities you have to be you have to be willing to accept.

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The consequences of what you do and that's what I did. You would call that the league Minister of State John Ransom at one point in time Ruth a letter which was leaked to the press at turn of the Be very very controversial and wising the president steps to take in order to consolidate power on reflection and one site what can you say that such advice coming from.

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The minister of state that time was a contributing factor the crisis that we had no. As a matter of fact Mr Ranson and I didn't get on because he comes from in my view you know it comes from now the background that does not make rational analysis to me into any issue.

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For example it was around his recommendation that produced. A back issue. And we wrote. We wrote. Very strongly on Ramsey because transit was and I was conservative did not. Give any inch of idea me to another to do and of course I. Did you do not realize that opposition is indispensable.

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At the time you apply and openly weight openly that the crime people were endangered species. I said that do you still hold that I used to like that on my way in fact I had to take it remember that I said that. And I said promise at that time you know when the war started many of the crime people and my dingo people were running ran ran away from Monrovia flat money back into Sierra Leone.

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And. I had a guy I was ready to go so somebody said you were gonna say yeah probably what I am and I'm minding the pre-buy endangered species because the end yet so directed its activities against just to try. Now but I believe this is why I'm I strongly believe that the issue of ethnicity the issue of tripe should not be an argument and I'll put it in a political dispensation.

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Trust Taylor who worked along with him in the union of Liberia Association in America as a matter of fact you. Were on a delegation that went to Liberia and. Just a little more yes and as you said the M.P.'s directed their. Antipathy towards the cross and. People. Taylor was elected president.

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You accepted in the point meant to serve with him. I suppose on the basis of your longstanding friendship. But after the. After the murder of. His family you don't raise a red flag. And tell us what was coming and but you continue to serve Can you provide some reasons why.

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You would serve the leader of a government that considered a brutal and oppressive. Up to the point were you part of company only when you were charged with treason. Well you know Charlie and I. Were friends. We started here in the United States. When I was president of the Union Chows was.

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Both Chairman. We marched the streets of the major cities in this cut in this country in protest to. Our political leaders at home. At the time telling a worse one of the most loyal member of the of the Union. So I was really shocked when I heard that he said he was leading.

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It could it tough and. Insurgency. So when he sent to me in Monrovia to go to Bangor I sent back to him is he telling you joking. You know to issue now is that prompt even in my day people are targeted I can't come up with that. He won already or to say well.

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You know you think I would kill him he's laid down so I said well this is why i never going to come over there but you see. Like you finally became became president. I was then serving an advisor to be my choice so when he became he became president.

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I mean that all of us had to give up oppositions So I went home. A week later he sent one else. To learn dominoes and began here in the this same time with those into the house you want to see that. I went to the mansion. In which Dan and this is from which then to minister minister of state to Presidency when you don't do it to join the staff so I said No I don't think so.

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As it is right now and tell has more than just him and he doesn't have the money to pay him. And also. Tell us the problem is to look at the economy he does not have to have me in there so I went home he sent back again.

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It's a you know I can't be president and you said now all I want you to do is to accompany me to talk when I get down let's go into it at the last meeting in Togo. And come to be going to see what international advice is therefore I want you to go along with me so I said fine we went to talk with them for three days and we came back they tell you so OK I want to you I want to give you before you all of the international advice.

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I felt there. I felt all of the time it's better to bring about change from within than with out. But I was wrong. When and nine months later I did know that. I was on the list to be eliminated. Under a team of September. Hell broke out on Camp Johnson Rule and I was supposed to be the ringleader.

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That's how I when I was arrested. With twelve others. Tried convicted and sent to jail. If it were not for the international community including the United States and the U.N. I probably would have died in jail. So this is how to live and I got together. We were friends here in the United States he was one of the most loyal members but you will remember that it was chaps Taylor.

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Who went and arrested most of the people that were tried and executed. That was ousted. After they could have to act alone and put a military uniform took some soldiers and arrest him most of the people that were that were killed on the beach just ousted. I was here in the United States know what I saw that was in the office of Representative Conyers John Conyers from Michigan he had Time magazine with color photographs of the execution on the beach he said is that what you're talking about.

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So this is how it is. Now while you were detained in during a tailor. Some detainees were taken out of what jail and executed. I suppose some of your colleagues like the late Thomas do in others. Are you aware of those who carried out those execution which were who you meet but it's time your to execution know while you were detained.

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During the Governor Charles Taylor. There were some colleagues of yours who were also charged like Arthur was doing the colonel Colonel Tom was doing. And there were reports well did disappear from the cells. Or do you have any idea as to who were responsible for the execution you know it is said that it is set up person no you know experience it is sad that.

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I. Need No need to what is new in. General need to. Natan you get a guy who was. Bad make you tell. The guy I was a supervisor JUST TELL US S S S gave the instructions for the S S station and one guy to arrest bookie and.

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I don't mean Ducie just dismissed some You're ducking I'm not referring to Dukie I'm referring to. COLONEL TOM of the others who were accused along with you and charged for treason and some of them were taken out of the seven executed Are you aware of those who were responsible for those executions.

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I have I do not have security responsibilities I do not I know is into it going to policy not you were also at the T.V. at a time. When all the time Tom was doing what. Those doors were were taking out it is said. On the night he said to my team under night a team incident.

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Some people with Johnson with. This about Johnson. And. It is said that Thomas do it and others were supporters of Samuel Doe So. Elements of the telecom to look up when to do push stock it and talk of how much do it and someone does people and took them to two.

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Shuffling and shot them on the beach not this is what I've been told not with my eyes. And what were those responsible for doing that as you were told. Tom. As to where he was kind of car you know I'm forces. Who told who was responsible for taking them and that and then I know I do not know the names of the individuals.

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And fact that that issue was tried when we were in jail it is said that there were sent people to take us out of it and killed us. But we were able to to at that because we we we wrote and smuggled out of the jail and it appear in the press.

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That they didn't do that. Now my last question if you were at the P.T.C. I mean it would have happened. I'm a last hour question to you when you were sentenced by the court and appealed the awe appeal the court's decision the lower courts the decision the Supreme Court.

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The Supreme Court added an additional twenty years and it's not ten years. Do you have any bit of do you hold any bitterness as a result of that decision or do you see the courts as a facilitator. And not just. Sentence. Well you see this is why I could be that the commission would be renewed.

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And our approach to a political organization be a court must be separate from the political decision makers the courts in those areas where Charles Taylor extension of Charleston those I hand. You know most of which were then Chief Justice. The law court brought a decision of guilt guilt to against us and gave us ten years.

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We took appealed to the Supreme Court just a prime court. Now when it. Affirmed below a court decision but added ten years. Added ten years to the decision of course who I bet. There I was very bitter because it was illegal and you know it all or you could not do it at all unless you can say that the decision to quote.

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Did it's not it's not consistent with a given law that he did not he did not say in fact I I've written on that decision it's going to be published very soon. And that this current bench was in any hope for you. That this does the current composition of the court was in any hope for the current position of the court now yeah I know nothing about the court be the Lewis court I know that I know our consulate was for a while but I don't know why and what I did doing I'm not I'm not a lawyer.

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So I don't know what it would be doing right now but I believe I believe that the courts should be independent. Of politics thank you that that that that. An individual who is charged must be tried on the basis of the body of laws and we have you know country that are applicable to the charges against individuals in Liberia and that is not the case.

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And this is where some of our you know the just or did did not did not follow president talking. You know predator might have done something wrong but he did everything with class. That's what this is a white paper that said. To consciously and publicly influencing politically would be something that is illegal.

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And I think I think I think that the commission has a responsibility to address package. Thank you very much thank you. Thank you Rice. As to who is nice but picking a time up that is to give to test him one into the Commission to hear what you can hear I can hear thank you very much as OK for coming to share your experience with laws.

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I have one question. And my question nice as a politician and a political and economic adviser to former president though. I wanted to please because it's Jerez it besides investigate the morality shall we suppose to look at the institutions to make recommendations for reforms in Thames self governance I wanted to compare the administration of tall What.

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With do in terms of corruption inequality and nepotism. Well I think. One can say that there is a new bottle which. These young people. Imitate it. Did things that were done in the past as a matter of fact some of them would say to me you know. Richard Henry did this person did that why can't we do it and I said Well where is he now did you take it down a division killer.

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Pen told me one day now you're scheduled to be killed I say no I'm not going to be killed. Because you see the things I do these people did you said you were wrong that's why you executed them def or you cannot do. So to me it's like.

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I mean you know bothering people you knew in nobody These guys were doing the. Is that they didn't know how to do all they were doing imitating. The Bush people who came before them. There are. Differences differences related to the individuals. These individuals who are soldiers trained in military science not in political science.

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Like I said earlier they were trained to obey obey and obey no idea of democracy. So that's this is how I look at it to. Do it now from from eight hundred forty seven or to it changing government. They had to find why do you talk about the government but do States continue corruption continue abuse human rights continue even though to introduce a new constitution that departed from the past yet they did things that were not that were not consistent.

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If you look at the new constitution that we have no adequate twenty seven B. I think you see what what what I wrote in there I did put twenty seven B. that did nice citizenship to none Negroes it's a violation.