Tristen received from.

The University of Black Swan and
spots the land she moved to some way

in one nine hundred eighty three
where she worked as a prosecutor.

Government practices of selective justice
led her to establish a private practice

specializing in human rights
law she gained recognition for

landmark cases challenging
sections of Zimbabwe's law and

the results of the country's
Parliament's reflexions in two thousand.

And ten twelve is particularly noted for
her business.

And for national among those for
whom she has one of these

board tape recorders from
London Sunday Telegraph and The New York.

Work has been recognized by various stages
legal and human rights organizations.

Around the world on Thursday Nov
thirteenth Georgia Tech

presenting this task while I
have you know your prize for

social class by ten to the states.

Thank you.

THANK YOU THANK YOU

I.

We are also privileged to have with
that this evening Laura Conaway who is

the filmmaker for the route of Law She
is an independent producer writer and

filmmaker through her company.

Boston fellow and video chat with
uneven fellow at Harvard University and

star of the human foundation advisory
board this Congress works and

supported by three grants from
the National Endowment for the Humanities.

And she has been recognized for
excellence by both Peabody.

Award Please join me in welcoming
to Atlanta filmmaker Lori Conway

thank you.

I think we are in good position now to
welcome also audiences wives television

cast OK City in Los Angeles Lake T.V.

and Amnesty International You may
submit questions for Beatrice and

more Lori via Twitter hash tag price.

That is again.

I thought we would start the question
a question to you Laurie

the film itself what would you
like to share with us about

making this important piece.

And for some thinking all or.

Might.

Do and you can come up with like.

It's always.

Involved in something like this and
to have apparently been.

Like.

What I was most struck with when.

Is that possible you know.

If you.

Think everything is work but yet
it is beautiful and that beautiful.

Lovely family.

Intentional anything can happen at any
time but there is this sense that.

People who are.

You have.

You know girlfriends Garand.

Gathers the.

Host dinner parties there there's
a sense of normalcy that is.

Transcended.

And it's this kind of
existence they are faced with.

And I was so impressed that

amidst the great big craziness
Nick hand there is this.

Very strong community of human rights
lawyers like the age group and

many of them look to be for leadership and

inspiration and she does that day to day.

And just last week we were talking it
in or that human rights lawyer was

the cowardly as he would write a protest
march and the journalist would be.

In both are in hospital now.

And so you know.

If you go through.

You know getting up going to work
knowing that at any given time.

The other she can drive in the way and
you have Beatrice saw your son and

amidst it all you know is a great
mom loves to cook loves to dance

shop and you know like I
said trying to maintain this

sense of normalcy and and
that's what I so enjoyed.

In my getting to know her and her family
that they have wonderful values and

they have such strong moral compass.

To do right by themselves right
in by their families and.

She just believe that some day change and
hope that change will come and

help or hurt you know be dismissed
because there will be in their heads.

And that they fight for and
you feel that every day with.

Cancer.
Reception been like for the film.

It's been shown in other places.

In Africa and.

Other places in Europe but
has that reception Well you know

Fox Africa acted after really quickly and
I haven't got much feedback but

the fact that they even picked
it up it was terrific and

it's just now starting to be shown after.

The director of the school in you.

Is inquiring from Beatrice about Maine the
school after her because they wanted to be

curriculum for girls based on
knowing their rights as citizens and

I think that would be incredibly
appropriate meaning the school based here

I could see a whole range of
Future Schools throughout Africa.

Inspired model behavior is
really symbolic of a of

a new Africa and new leadership that
believes in the rule of law believes in

a compass a moral compass that is ethical.

You know based and
with governance and democracy.

Equality and so the film really I think in

my own small way with
a very small budget me.

Has somehow been shown at Riccarton we
gave five thousand with the B.B.C. play.

To the schools and.

All.

I could get was fifty thousand and
it's not a film.

Machine it's really very behavior and

I think there is an especially
active she's a woman.

You know people really want to hear
her story and in the country and

outside the country so we you know
we were right it was sort of a.

The engine that you want
to get is now more and

more like I said I could get more D.V.D.'s
that way you know there were grants and

the interest is there and
that is strictly for one reason.

So just what do you think about
this having a screen name for

you being able to to
share your perspectives.

Work with others but your idea.

It took a long time for
Laurie and corporate

to convince me that in no one no
one wants this documentary and

I've been surprised and
going to want to watch it and

the name of the school.

Is testimony that maybe they saw something
that I didn't see and that maybe

the documentary does make
some small difference all.

Window where people can look at.

You know what we've been doing and
how you know a small contribution my.

Made with other people elsewhere and
might inspire young people in particular

to to look at that might
make a difference however

small it might say it's
probably not a bit.

From.

The work itself.

How would you describe the conditions.

Right now what is the context
in which you are working now.

It got slightly better when we.

Sort of unity government between
the two main parties that

ended last year and if so
would bet to my jury.

Zanu P.F. in Parliament so
naturally some of the gains

that they made during
the inclusive government as.

Being eroded and so
we getting more and more you know.

Abuses is a you had Laurie
say well maybe a brave new

constitution that sales
people are free to march and

protest the police are still
continuing with how they've always done

things they believe that you
need to to protest despite

the fact that the law very entitled to and
I mean this young lawyer and

young journalist who went to truth
true to the protest scene because

they had been told that the police were.

Bidding not the protesters themselves
beaten up and ended up in hospital so

you can see that you know
things haven't changed much and

that they still need to
really continue showing that

we need for the restoration of
the role of Florence the mother and

that when police hear
the way that they and doing.

A serious problem that the world
should definitely know about so

what keeps you can only person
I get such a resistant.

My view really is that this is my job and

I do not believe that.

Professionals should be heartless for

doing their jobs if you go to your
school and you are preparing for

a trust the fact that's you know going to
teach about a topic that someone might not

like shouldn't be cause for
you to be beaten up and I think the same.

Richly to try every other profession.

Should be allowed to do my job and
I approach my job from the perspective

that I'm not doing anything illegal and
if somebody thinks I should be doing it it

is more their problem that my problem
I'm just going to do what I believe I'm

entitled to do you know if a doctor
who treats a patient even a patient of

who's a victim of political violence
doesn't get beaten up why should a lawyer

who represents a politician enough for
the job.

What keeps me going is that this is
my job I took an oath to be a lawyer

and to abide by the laws of the country
and the love of the country say

lawyers should be able to do their
work and that's what I'm doing.

And one more question before I open it up.

You.

Are looking for section between.

The rule of law and human rights
can you talk a little bit more

what it is that you see that you're
calling the rule of law with passion

that you talk about I don't really
believe that one can talk or

need democratic dispensation
without dealing with

human rights in the rule of law I
don't think you can talk of true

Konami development if you do
not have the rule of law.

Is central to any development issues
which are afraid to look at them

I mean new investors should
be able to know that if.

Their investment is secure we'll
still have you know an impartial and

independent judicial.

To educate you on any issues that
my right and if things go wrong.

You know.

Your ordinary person in the street should
be able to cooperate their business

knowing that.

You know.

Before you do make sure that
rights are respected and.

Democracy should really
the comfort of knowing that there.

Will be the last line of defense
if things go wrong so I believe.

You know from the perspective of
a lawyer who thinks everything rewards

are on the law that.

Is central to virtually everything that
you do because without it the that you

require to live in all my life not.

One sucking up a lot of that
reminds you that question is

asked to the microphone
because we are recording but

do you wait to take the microphone
let me know if you have

a question.

That you just.

Mentioned saying this should
happen this should happen should.

You are confident that
within your night time.

Period from.

The question about what is the.

TIME What you're saying it's your job.

Search which makes it different from John.

Filmmaking isn't even in the streets.

If you keep it in my.

The women and
Tyrone women have a passion for a right.

As much as Robin Wright and
for a Jew Princess.

Those who love a person have the power

to reaffirm itself even in
the situation when you see that.

The situation is currently
getting worse and

in Zimbabwe what it is about the most
that makes it different from.

From activism from
journalism from filmmaking.

The keeps it keeps you going keeps
you certainly will it will turn

if nothing should turn around for
that it will try.

To resume can only happen because
you have the protections.

For you to practice as a journalist
if the whole if somebody is trying to

prevent you from practicing you generally
them should be able to step in and

say you do have that right it's
if you're a constitution that.

Freedom of expression and access to
information I believe that it is the war

that will then cut you journalists the
right to practice that journalism it is

hard I should cut you virtually
every aspect of every day life but

it's you know people should be able
to do what is allowed within the law.

Should be the last line of defense
to say you cannot STOP IT journalist

doing his work because
the Constitution has provisions that

you three Dome of the media freedom
of expression access to information.

Free and certainly free association then.

You should be clear but

because you it's a subtle thing it
writes that by the Constitution so I.

I believe that the OP connects to
virtually every aspect of every day

because if someone tries to
stop you enjoying those rights

then we should be able to step up and
say these are entitle Mintz that

cannot be stopped because somebody
heads a police tranche and

that they can use our new and
imagine day and

our way that law will function in
the way that you just described.

That perhaps not in the sense that it

functions beyond the normal you know.

Functions that happen everywhere
else I mean like everything else and

everywhere else there will be
limitations here and that but

I imagine that there will be a day when.

It's such in the first
generation rights that.

By the constitution will be enjoyed and
the courts will be there to ensure that

you know those rights I enjoy it
without the fear of being harassed and

I do believe that we will have I think
we've seen it historically that.

Good always prevails over evil.

Crime world and
when we least expect and we so.

The world in the communist world or
I mean if they're expected.

To.
Have been many many many historical.

Examples where they
least expect it happens.

You know.

People's rights are restored even if for
short moment.

There was another question.

Good evening thank you so
much for the film and for your.

Worked.

My question I'm just trying to
wrap my head around the first

problem and its solution.

And I'm wondering if this change is going
to start at the National Lampoon and

just kind of be inforced
you know trickle down or

if you're seeing this maybe at different.

Spots I guess in the country right now and

so some parts of the country
are more peaceful than others I

just wanted to know what
you thought about that.

I believe that change can
only come from the grassroots

it is read the people demand their rights
that you truly will see change if you have

anything to come from top down
once then it means you will.

Pressure and that we have seen because
if you think change is going to come up.

From and go downwards when they don't
want you to enjoy that change the same

process will be you so it has to come
from the people when people protest

be a basically saying we demand is
right see our rights and you can

see that it is the people are saying we
want this when journalists go out and

do stories that they know will get them
into trouble it is because they are saying

we are entitled to do this and I think.

If it wasn't for the fear factor more and
more people would be out there.

Protesting you know but the more people
are out and demand their rights the more.

People will come out and
also basically participate and

say here's our rights that way and
hurtle to and

in a country like them bible which
has leaders who went out to fight.

For these rights it is amazes me that

if these very same people
are now who are suppressed and

defeated rights they went out to fight for
in defense place so

I think it is because our leaders also
know that what they're doing is not

right that they been resorts to
True True True True feeds a cult violence

if you truly believed that you know if
you protest you are breaking the law or

they would take you to court and
take you through due process and

decide whether you have done anything but
when you take your own hands and

you mix up the punishment they without
any due process it is because you know

that if you followed you
process you wouldn't win.

So when the Arab Spring occurred
a number of years ago people.

Credited communications and

social media new ways of sharing.

I think is a constant nationality use and
I'm just wondering about how that

is impacting Zimbabwe's population
people on the streets and

I suppose to have you put that in a
context and so if you are I'm a female and

the women in Zimbabwe.

It turns appear as though it's a fairly
patriarchal society from what I saw

I don't remember I mean
could you expand on that and

people will say then another remedy for
many of the.

World's ills is to know educate women and

it seems that maybe
educating on everyone was.

Perhaps a bigger need in
symbolic way not just women but

certain to have mentioned such
connections to the instrument.

And also the ones of women in the context.

With social media you know with the.

Economy collapse on Zimbabwe
it makes it very difficult for

every one to have access to true
true true true true true you know

the kind of communication that you're used
to in the western world not everybody has

a smartphone and
not everybody can access the Internet and.

The penetration of the smartphones
it's very very very low so

it's a practical level it is not bad easy
for people to communicate with Big East

communicate with the West.

And.

The women.

African women.

Despite being downtrodden
usually rocks of their

families and be.

Released through all
these difficult times but

you know when you're
in a country that has.

Eighty percent unemployment and.

The worry is first and foremost about
just putting basics on the table

you know do you have food for children.

You know the last thing that we men
won't worry about is you know whether or

not they are able to politically
participate education in Zimbabwe is

regarded very very highly we have this
belief that if you're a Jew Creative's

your problems will simply disappear but
unfortunately it's

the literacy rate that
makes Zimbabweans also.

Look at everything they're going to do
in their lives first and foremost and

look at you know what are the problems

as if they didn't hear about
education they just got into this.

Do whatever needs to be done if necessary.

But.

Like most African societies you
find that when the chips are down

in the economy down you know
the boat child will get

preference over the girl child
versus the belief that they.

Will get married and go elsewhere and look
after the people who are it's a belief

that the sun will remain behind so
for us we need to ensure that more and

more women actually you know educated.

And understand that if their
kids want to go out and

do advocacy work that doing
it because it is necessary

that people really not look at the dangers
of doing that work if they were ahead of

the benefits that might
come with that and.

You know generally that saves
them badly is better and

a lot of African countries
when it comes to to education.

And particularly educated to child
it's certainly more could be done

particularly now when when
the economy has completely color.

Here.

I'm interested in knowing
your closest allies are in

Africa you mentioned South Africa and
the end of apartheid

there in the countries that
are lending support to your cause.

I found that in the region basically the.

Civil society groups are very very tight
we have a lot of elaborate erections

as well as we said Lawyers Association I
was very involved with it I was.

The president of this article.

Association until about two years ago it's
a grouping of lawyers in the region so.

We have this thing that an injury
to one is an injury to all and

we are very very supportive
of each other that.

In fact last Monday I had to go
to a size event because one of

the human rights lawyer in jail and
his case was in court so

we tried to work as close to me
of each other as possible and

there we we probably
the reason they get into

trouble the most is that if something
happens to me it's all over.

As quickly as possible and
that really irritates the government but

it's because of the synergies that we
have it means that we are very smart but

very very different civil society
group in which is better for

each other I mean we have you
know fast reaction you need

to hear someone has been arrested
we can immediately go and

see them and try and
sort of reduce the dangers

by ensuring that people don't go
out on their own at night etc So

we are saying this about reaching ritually

you know every country has
been extremely supportive.

And so on a personal.

Quest who might.

Protect America who protects the lawyers.

That.

You know we.

Work together with.

Obviously if a lawyer gets
arrested we also run around and.

Make sure that they are protected
I mean sometimes we had

a couple of years ago we had
an interesting case where two.

My colleagues were arrested and
both lawyers.

And when we went to see them in the police
the basement said all sorry they

don't need lawyers that's why but

a lot of defense used to
represent the second accused and

the second Ripper than the fifth so

you can't necessarily but we we.

We him and short doctors him.

Doctors for human rights.

For instance when we have
put coach of victims.

Just for human rights understand that
torture is completely different from

a normal assault and

they're prepared medical reports
that we show that this is torture.

We hear and you own that.

Psychological side of things where
you know we do the legal where.

Do the medical psychologists
that we have around it kind of

a holistic approach to the problem so
we try to look.

As much as possible and
to to ensure that every aspect of

the person who's Lapis been
violated is taken care of at

least professionally and that we have
the proper record of all of that.

That was like to defend yourself
when you were branded on charges.

At first of course everybody.

Was saying it was the most foolish
thing to do is the lawyers will know.

The saying is that.

Will represent himself or
herself as a fool for it's why it's so.

Good it was like not a good idea but
it wouldn't get any of the scenario.

For me and
the only people who were very keen to.

Present me with young lawyers who
are very very nervous about it so.

The first two days we're like
ten because everyone said OK

we'll allow you to do it maybe for
a day or two when we see.

It OK if your case then you
can go on it actually is not.

As.

It is made out to be because
it has lots of advantages.

For instance when you question their
witnesses and you know you made it and

you don't have to explain it should be
allowed in because of it's why is it

you know immediately so
nothing is lost in giving instructions and

to just you know immediately pounce
on the aspects which you know a force

in the able to demonstrate immediately
why you say that they're false so it.

Wasn't so bad but I had decided that I
was going to completely it was myself

I was not used back used separate from me

not my client I actually fled to be
accused when I spoke as a lawyer

I was not there it was just my chat and
it just happened that my caravan site

itself.

So.

Used to be a breadbasket of Africa and so

it's now it's dimensions of the movie and
that's and the shambles it's has huge

hyperinflation eighty percent
of people are unemployed.

And the fast track land
reform was run over.

I mean one of my two Asians for that.

To distribute land among people and
you're saying that that's not happening.

What do you see as.

What forces will help Zimbabwe to
bring a sort of economic might back.

So people can have jobs and
they can provide for their children.

Has to be political will is really
everybody's everything is tied

to political will because all
the instruments are taking us for that but

if the politicians are not
willing to do the right thing and

we were not going to be anywhere near
where we were supposed to be I mean we

have been land but it's in the wrong
hands I mean if you give me a country.

So how do you expect me to produce
food and then you take the lead and

you give it to people who have
put full time job that's OK And

farming is a four time occupation
you've got to be better.

To know what you're doing and.

Parceling out of the land
is not helping because.

Zimbabweans who would be able to do
a pretty good job with the farming but

they simply don't have access to the land
because they DON'T have been necessary

connections to that land and
I'm currently doing.

Well I'm just done with it was loyal woman
who was married to one of the powerful.

Political people in the country and
I know that being as they

were fighting the war was the fun and
we had a constitution that has

very very strong gender equity rights and

a judge who.

Was not a family court judge
who was just picked for

this particular case basically
if I am true the men.

But the man is a full time minister he
works for time the woman is always been on

the farm for the past ten years
he has better farming it's be.

Good instead but
I'm going to read it it's true.

Is the bitter fight.

Between them and she lost the farm.

Not because she showed him but
because her husband or

ex-husband is more powerful than me and so
we have this farm which could be put that

which is lying fallow because it's been
given to two to the wrong pets and so

if it was given to the right
people regardless of what color.

They necessarily need to be keys and
of course the capital to work on the land

we probably would still remain
the breadbasket of Africa but

it's being given to people who do not have
the capital in farming is very capital

intensive and of course if you don't have
pedal to the property nobody's going

to give you loans so even if them but
with the economy with functioning normally

nobody is going to give you a loan
without proper collateral and

so it's just a.

Problem is that just is making it
impossible for the agricultural sector

to recover.

The well being of.

The African countries I'd
sure like the same pounds I.

Found I pursued finding the right for
your work despite.

You know believing that you know even if.

Probably the same political or
the world was still like remained up.

For having.

Gretchen a lifetime to be OK I should have

you know something now then been
around for a psycho schoolteacher or

maybe like a business executive for
us something that's lucrative.

But the problem with Heavens and

earth is that virtually every
aspect of life is affected.

If school teacher is
affected by this because.

I'm able to teach children who
come to school ready to be

taught because they might be hungry
might be problems with school fees or

might not be able to get to school on time
because of transport problems of course.

For depleting the children might not.

And so whatever you do it is
affected by the current problem.

What is the point of being a business
executive in an economy that's not working

so I think everybody can see that
you know we are in a space where

we need to really work together because
if if if the politics is not right

the political will to do things
properly is not every aspect of life

will be affected it's just the professions
and what is in the forefront

is others but
the problems are right across the board.

Decided to be and I am nor something
else I probably still be affected

by what's going on which is why you
have people in their religious orders

being part of the human rights discourse
you you have some business executives

being part of that discourse and
basically.

The people right now if you have polluted
it's not human anybody in the ruling party

because it's not everybody in virulent
party who has access to resources is just.

Click So in.

Some of the people in the ruling party
I'm not benefiting because the case

is getting smaller and smaller and
once that happens it's like this get.

If you.

Like Sister those in slices.

Thank you again for

this amazing discussion I
wanted to ask a question about.

Kind of the role of the film and so if
in fact you could have the international

human rights community respond and
you know three major way

now how would you you know what impact
do you want the film to have and

and what were what are the three goals.

Maybe influencing the international
human rights community community to be

supportive of the work that you're doing
but I mean the major major reason that

the documentary was done was not to be.

But it was to use it as an advocacy to.

Actually.

Be a human rights
deficiencies you know if you.

Talked about the rule flow and you know.

What happens when the rule
of law is absent.

You know when I was in college I mean
we didn't have this if you're going to

Human Rights courses we did have
constitutional law courses but

it it's a completely different perspective
when you see it in practice and

there are days that if.

The students for
instance see the freedom and

they're understand what the breakdown of
the rule of law does you know it will help

them understand that this shouldn't
happen and when it happens you see it for

what it is because most of the time people
don't actually make even the connection.

But this is a breakdown
in the rule of law and

therefore corrective measures should
be taken so it is to make sure that

it's many people realize that there is
a problem is this possible in that way

possible that able to take
corrective measures by.

Taking whatever interventions say or

bring in whatever interventions they
think might help in the particular.

Situation now that maybe.

We're.

Using the rules.

So.

That if.

Any.

Other.

Countries.

You're seeing.

You know suddenly when you begin to
put pieces together you don't have.

Any chance of that.

You don't.

See you know you have to
have education when I have.

You know even the ability to feed
yourself because people with impunity

still aren't like me and the irony about
this divorce if this farm that she

wasn't given was probably
a stolen farm from someone else

you know so you know that shows you how.

Without the rule how complex and
how to write ins.

Very quickly so you know for

us making the film it was
important that we used a prism in.

Looking at this class and
country that could really illustrate.

What you trust in other human rights
workers we're dealing with and

that all of these factors
without will contribute to the.

And and makes her work all
the more challenging work.

And really to shine a light on a hundred
lights and probably three years for a.

Night in silence but
certainly there has not and you know

the Arab Spring response a lot of people
ask you why is an Arab Spring going on.

And I would ask Beatrice and
my friends in our own country and.

You know I I think.

It could happen at some point but because
the country is the jury so much now.

You know my name is I was driven to
Victoria Falls which is about a twelve

fourteen hour drive from robbery and
I said to my friend Robert who was driving

me what's all this beautiful Why is all
this land just overgrown and he said.

It was one hour after.

A look in the wind.

Farm land that was no longer being called.

And it was astonishing for
twelve hours looking out of window and.

Thousands of acres that are just over.

Rusty which farmers.

In a country that used
to be called the bread.

And he handed over a jar of
spaghetti sauce eight dollars.

Because everything is ready.

Now some of that has.

Years ago but again the farms are so
you know they're not.

In benefit.

Or certainly are not so
you know it was important for

us to really shine what's going.

On and to use your.

You know our country last.

Year.

I wonder if you could talk a little
bit more about himself and

how important he's been
creating this situation.

And then for instance with the emergence
of someone like Mandela did that have.

Any effect in any way.

But I've never met the man for
a start so I really didn't.

Know him but I know that.

Coming on for this enough money
didn't help very much because.

He took the shine out of him so it was
like there was a bit of competition.

Just comes out of.

All over him and
making everyone else look bad.

Unfortunately been leaders in
the region have not really been very

helpful in ensuring that.

Moved by some of the principles
they've set out for

themselves as a bloc in
the region I mean this side

has many guidelines on many many.

Principles and guidelines on.

Elections and
what ought to be basic and they.

Really do not enforce
those principles you know.

They have.

Joined the protocols in
all these protocols but.

Framed pieces of paper

that the Western world typically
paints for years and then they.

Prepare them and.

Foresman so.

The leaders in the region have literally
been what I call a trade union of

presidents looking after each
other's interests and not.

Basically saying you know we have to live
by these principles river agreed to and

when you do not that elections in
accordance with the principles.

Agreed to there will be a consequence and
some kind of censure just isn't there.

A question.

My question and I would like to
congratulate you on your on your award

thank you for the film but as you can
see maybe not you know from the T.V.

Our current President Obama
President Obama if you look

at his hair is very very gray from
just dealing with the ins and outs and

I look a year or two and you look awesome.

And from having to deal with
the political the law and

just dealing with you know the detriment
of you know other people there

when you go to the jails and you see.

Sometimes people that are you
know the under-representation

that people have when I look at you and
you know people say the.

Most black people from
America African-Americans I just happen to

be black but I'm an American I cannot
identify with Africans because I don't

even know anybody nobody in my family has
ever said that we were from Africa even

though I know that is the motherland but
I want to say to you what do you do and

how do you keep yourself looking so
awesome even though you're just I mean you

know I mean there's got to be something
how did you get how do you decompress.

Thank you for that compliment.

I said to people actually it's not.

A human right and no fun.

It was just.

A matter of just talking in a boat we were
in New Orleans a couple of years ago and.

It was just like a few days
before might be grand and

virtually everybody was open all night so.

From But so bad you know nobody but I mean
look I have lots of fun even just doing

their work because just trying
to see how you're going to beat.

The particular situation can be
lots of fun I mean you know.

I remember one time I would go
to the police station when a lot

of the political activists had been
locked up and it's not them and

they just been backed into the man police
station and when it gets to the gates

of the central police station which by
the way supposed to be open to everybody

twenty four seven there were eight course.

And they said to which group are you
we were told the group with some paper

shouldn't come in here and

look at them they were all new
recruits now know the new life and

I said Shame just some
terrorist group interest.

And.

You know.

You put in five minutes so
you it's not all or do you mean.

You know you have a bit of fun doing
it with Andrew Meldrum was imported and

we managed to convince a judge to give
us an order not to help him put two and

a plane into stop the captain
putting him in on his plane and

when we got to the airport.

It was.

Because.

Obviously because.

Every immigration officer.

Is a just.

And a bad investigations of course
nobody wanted to be given that order and

so if it was I mean when they sat down and
with it it was like

Wow that works for me because you know.

What I mean we couldn't get into the plane
because they'd already put him in.

Funny moments.

That sort of you know you do
a lot of writing in this job or

maybe that.

We have a search for.

Victories.

Of better things and that should be
very affirming to you that the fire is

for naught I have managed to do
some pretty important things

in this work there was another
question wow OK two last ones and

then we're going to have to modernize.

You're going to have.

Talking from the point of
the people who were traumatized.

What do you think would reduce
the film a factor like you're doing so

many things but
people have seen as well as journalists

being arrested and
subjected to violence as well so.

Did you start feeling
factors that education is a.

Human right parties what
do you think will help you.

Should think.

Would be a detour which was part
of the reason we did the first.

My view is that if the micro nature of
lawyers were prepared to do this that

they just can't do it sort of US So
if people really willing to follow up and

say this is not going to happen and
the more people do it.

You know it the better it would be for
everybody else and so

I do agree with you that
advocacy is really the main

point where people should understand that.

To be safety in numbers and
the people are out there saying as long

as we will not allow this to
happen not going to have.

Lawyers locked up in any given time so
right now we are targets because we

are few but if you do it first
probably because it is it is not.

And one last question OK go
ahead Hi I just I'm just curious

to know what prompted you to become a
human rights lawyer in the first place and

where you get the strength to keep
continuing this fight even though you

know you've been meeting with injustice
often justice but you've kept fighting and

with the belief that even one
person can make a difference.

I mean.

When I went to law school it wasn't
because I had any passion for

human rights but indeed we know what
human rights were I didn't even know what

I would do with the law I just knew
that I didn't want to be set and

things some of them I couldn't be
because I didn't qualify to be them so.

Picking out what to do with it
my thing that ended up with and

I went to law school and
it wasn't like I wanted to use the law for

something it just is something that there
are a lot is I understood below and

as I saw that you know all set and
violations are going on and

that maybe the law can be used as a tool
to stop some of the violations and

it probably was more a mistake that
I brought into it not deliberate

conscious decision but.

Also because the French born in a larger.

Family of God knows how many children and
their so.

It is a child I had a very very sort of.

And witnessed agree with
my father when I used to

really push him to do the right thing and
to make sure that we quote

What we are entitled to and
his choice of having many women and

many children shouldn't
impact on our lifestyles and

now our rights set and
basic standards of living and so

I think it would also help me
because I grew up having to.

Basically negotiate with with with or

three to from a very very early age and
they.

Didn't care very much about
the consequences the consequences or

even then but my teachers or
you can beat me up but

I mean I'm not going to stop
to demand that you pay for

my education it just kind of my
choice because I have that right and

it's so that probably influenced
my getting into human rights but

it wasn't like conscious.

Awareness and
we heard quite a conversation.

But what you're doing and
how you're doing it and

why you're doing it impact
if you're doing it.

Too I think that we are going to know and

we know we're obligated to do and
so advocacy doesn't

stop in the countries that
surround your country.

Cobbers as well so I hope that we are all

encouraged to be aware of what's going on.

Up in our own advocacy to
the extent that we care so

thank you very much for
coming and thank our good.

Yes for such a wonderful conversation and
filmmaker for

doing just an incredible job
in spending presenting to

an exemplar of a rare quality Thank you.