They would have said

this is the last one that I was

really on one more

crack that were very alive far

away and

research and
development that you know that

well thank you.

I just want to issue a warning first so
this is very much a work in progress

in very early stages this is the first
time I'm going public with it.

So if it seems a little
ragged around the edges.

Forgive me.

River Basin Earth most of you know
it's not a new idea in the global

south but with climate change and
growing economic complexity.

It's becoming more necessary.

And that the same time we're contentions.

Today I'm going to focus on proof
three Asunta which faces three

problems whose solutions are going
to require a coordinated planning

process that's both inclusive and
I think Democratic.

Two of these problems growing demand and
increasing pollution are media.

The third could strike with a vengeance.

Sometime during the next two decades and
that would be severe reduction in

the volume of the river as a result of
glacial retreat caused by global warming.

Now unless present levels of
pollution is substantially reduced.

As the rivers flow diminishes the quality
of its waters will deteriorate as well.

Hydrologist local officials environmental
N.G.O.s working in the river basin

are arguing for immediate coordinated
action on behalf of the river but they're

complaining that political fragmentation
competing sectoral interests and

a series of small conflicts on a number of
different axis is making this impossible.

Yet the concern is that
heightened competition for

water could exacerbate existing regional.

Inequalities and increase the potential
for conflict that could become violent.

I'm not coming to this
as a neutral observer.

I lived in the car when there was the
middle reaches of the river basin and have

had a longstanding relationship with some
of its municipalities and communities.

For the past year I've been working
with the Mountain Institute in Peru to

see if we can define a role for
Georgia Tech in this river basin effort.

And the Mountain Institute or T.M.I.

made explicit its own commitment to
seeking want a management solution.

That supports Highland communities and

the complex agro ecosystems
that they have nurtured.

Last summer on a muddy had way the.

International affairs
student worked with T.M..

I to assess a potential for coordination
this current this coming summer.

I hope that Nancy Gulu ski
a graduate student in policy and

planning will join us in Peru.

So well you know what the goal is

is to build a fairly long term
attack Mountain Institute

chord collaboration around this
theme of River Basin planning and

hopefully to find money to
support the collaboration.

So let me talk first a little bit
about river basins focal points for

collective action.

Across the global self a number
of river basins have become

targets of social mobilization and
environmental

social scientists can conquer finds
that mobilization around water has

typically occurred either where rivers
are threatened by big dam projects as

in the case of the Narmada Valley or
where water marketing market is ation

is taking place in the case
of Cochabamba in Bolivia.

But mobilization around the need for
comprehensive planning is very rare.

Rebecca avers.

Works works in Brazil and
she found that in most

cases the preconditions for
political mobilization don't exist.

That government agencies lack
the technical capacity and

experience to coordinate
the functions of different agencies.

Well governmental and

nongovernmental stakeholders
view regulation with skepticism.

But she filmed in Brazil
where appropriate legal Meg.

Anisim was for organization have been put
in place small scale collaborative efforts

have led to the production of collective
identities around River Basin planning.

And this is proof.

Whiskey is really primitive the kind
of mobilization that is not yet

taking place in the sun.

So let me turn now just to tell you

you know a little bit about
Cruise water problem.

And as you can see from the.

Crew is divided into three we each and
every school kid knows us.

You have the coast which is light
brown this year which is brown and

the one tying in-cell which are green.

Water is abundant on those
eastern green looks but

population is concentrated
in the Pacific watershed.

Let's see what happened here.

OK.

This shows you the concentration.

That eighty percent of
Peru's water is used for

irrigation and the other eighteen percent
because for domestic use in industry.

Two percent is used by
the mining sector but

the mining sector renders a lot
of water or unfit for other uses.

So in fact this contribution
is much larger.

In two thousand and

four seventy seven percent here a gated
lion was located on the arid coast.

Eighteen percent in the Sierra where most

of the nation's present
agriculture occurs.

And the North Coast irrigation
systems are growing very very fast.

Particularly those that draw
water off of the Santa Fe

water huge came plantations and
agribusiness enterprises that produces

Speratus an artichoke how many of you
have ever eaten asparagus out of season.

And if you.

OK comes from Peru.

You just look at the labels at home food.

OK so that's a general.

But the other thing is that the mining
sector has grown vastly since

about nine hundred ninety two with
the neo liberal turn in Peru's

government and economy with
pacification in the countryside and

with I.M.F. structural adjustment
programs that conditionalities

really emphasize export
oriented production.

Some seventy three percent of the mines.

Are in the Sierra.

So seventy three percent the water
used by these mines is in

the upper reaches of the rivers
that flow west to the Pacific.

Real Santa is proof the largest westward
flowing river and it provides water for

hydro power peasant agriculture
agribusiness small island settlements

big coastal cities and it's
contaminated by large mines and small.

But untreated urban sewage
by agricultural runoff and

waste from the fishmeal factories near
the coast much of the rivers volume

comes from snow melt and glacial
melt because of its glacial Arjun's

it's one of the few westward
flowing rivers to float year round.

Many of the rivers are just into me.

So here you can see that the river
is the white snowy mountain and

you can see the river flows along
the western flank of those mountains and

then turns west and almost Southwest

to form the border between the regions
among caution of the bear.

So after river basin.

Conquest.

Consists of well it still consists of
the high alpine meadows and the Puna

and the forestry use for grazing and
for crops like potatoes in Kenya

a fear of peons who introduced
cattle barley see indices.

Since one thousand nine
hundred ninety two.

We've seen the rapid growth of mining
although some mining existed before and

let me just show you here is the lake on
a coach of the head waters of the sun.

Which right about forty forty five
hundred metres above sea level.

It's good like for fishing.

There's another glacial like.

Here you see up on the pool.

What's got on national park which is
a significant amount of the quarter.

Yet a Blunkers side of the watershed.

There's one of our collaborators and
here we're going.

But we're still in the high
reaches cattle predominate

note now does the cows I mean these are
not your normal black angus or Brown Swiss

a lot of create your you know varieties
and the variation in cattle have you.

To restudy.

Cat grazing is beginning to compete
with agriculture with global warming.

Here's a potato harvest up on the Huna.

Here are some of the crops that
are harvested from the hives.

And you.

And again potatoes.

Mining.

Is an open pit mine.

Up in the quarter yet and mega which
has no snow but we're still here

at about thirteen fourteen
thousand feet above sea level.

It shows the UN to mean I'm one
of the mines in the kind of home

in one nine hundred ninety six and

you know you can see the way it's affected
the landscape by the year two thousand.

Some of the mines are old and

abandoned as in the city of the city
the old mining town of teacup Pompa.

But the tailings are still with us.

The tailings are not managed
in any way shape or form and

they're leeching toxic chemicals
into the river every day.

Small minds are proliferating you here's
a picture I took of a a little coal mine.

It's really basically
three guys in a truck.

Totally regulated.

Although there is a push a move
afoot to formalize a sector and

to impose regulations for it.

It's not really going anywhere.

Here you see some of the agricultural
landscape as we're moving down

from the high prune a down
toward the valleys the mid

Basin are the kind when they watch
us because a heart has a number

of fairly small urban settlements that
are concentrated along the river.

And what's.

And happening in recent years as
the population has been moving out of

the very high and isolated sounds down
into communities closer to the river and

its tributaries first of all
because it well it would in some

of them a working outside of agriculture
second so their kids can go to school.

And third to the thinking that
a clinic can buy stuff and

you know it's a reasonable move but

you're getting urban densification but
no service provision to speak of.

Irrigated agriculture is becoming
increasingly important here but

we still have dryland farming small and
medium scale mining.

Particularly long time and
call the coal is used in furnace for

firing Adobe's and bricks and
tiles and I don't know.

I thought I was used for
a number of small industries and

at the bottom of the bell
like a hydroelectric plant.

I took this in one of the old schools
in the valley the site of the old

Cornell proof project.

This is the idealized and it was.

And here is the city of water ice.

The Partido upper east up here

one is the party of
the present president and

it influences some of his decision making.

Here you can see the urban
fabric small town.

Yeah I still have with us in these towns.

Here is Rico switches become much
more urban in the past decade.

Here you see.

The pace of her of an association
this guy's making in the old

lease downstream we get cut.

I swear you get more export oriented and

national market oriented cut flour and
orange production and.

The Valley basically ends with
the hydroelectric dam at Wyong.

Then the river flows through
the kind young the pot.

There used to be a railroad that
went through this girl her age.

You can see it's hard to spot it but
you can see one of the old tunnels.

I think class for rap and.

The.

Railroad was destroyed by
an earthquake in and one

thousand nine hundred seventy that altered
the complection of the whole valley.

Then we get down to the coast where
we have X. we're oriented agriculture

to large irrigation schemes
charge remote cheek on the lever.

Does And she make us on the side.

Of big fish meal industry and

she bought the large chaotically
growing urban settlements.

She invoked a man who he.

And on the coast a fishing industry.

So here you see the valley.

This is the general plan for

the chubby much ecosystem which
would draw water off the sun.

And bring it across into a number
of different river valleys and

provide water for irrigation.

It's going to irrigate some
sixty sixty thousand new

hectares of previously irrigated
Desert One supply water

to the city of Trujillo it's
supposed to provide hydro power for

the agro enterprises and for

the city of true regularize
the water supply.

You see these green the ring.

The green areas here.

These are fed by rivers which
can be intermittent and

during dry years they have
may have no water at all.

So the idea is to take from the sun to
which is a regularly forwarding river.

And regularize the water supply for
these other valleys.

Needless to say because she
knows are not happy about this

irrigators in chief make us.

The older gauge and system are not getting
the water that they have been promised and

they have called the diversion dam for
a Chevy more cheek wall.

Here you see a view of.

Chimbo.

The town that was built up
fishmeal industry was made

possible by the construction of
that hydro dam and why Anka.

NET mending in the city.

It gives you again some sense of the urban
fabric of these north coast towns.

They're really good and

the fishing fleet support of Santa and

the mouth of the river and
here you see the town

the small town of Santa during
a storm surge last summer.

So that gives you a bit of an idea
of what the river looks like.

In some of them.

I just wanted to say that demand for
the sun to this water is growing.

As a result of urbanization
both in the kind.

On and on the coast.

As a result of the growth of export
agriculture on the coast and

at the same time pollution is
being aggravated by the growth in

the mining sector and chemical runoff
industrial waste and untreated sewage.

What's called natural pollution
in quotes is also a problem

in the kind hone natural
pollution is when the arsenic and

heavy metals set occur naturally
in the soils are released and

what releases them is
basically construction and

the removal of the topsoil
Captain top rock out for mining.

Yeah.

Well this is what we don't have yet
you know there is this is

a proof it's a fairly data poor
environment and that you know.

People are making different projections
and the project the general consensus

is that once the Chivery muchy project
is completed it is not yet completed.

The demand will then exceed
supply at that point.

You know probably.

Well yeah yeah well there
are a series of projections

about that the general consensus
is that within two decades.

We will have.

The last glacial cover and
the river will be entirely

dependent upon rainfall and that

before that period where
you have serious droughts.

This summer and
him is likely to exceed supply.

So part of climate change
of course is is warming and

glacial melt that gradual
loss of snow melt but

part of it is also increasing
climatic very Realty in the Andes.

Have always had this
variability in the form and

so our solutions will mean you know.

Vince.

You know since I've been coming to
the Andes which goes back to the sixty's

ocurred like once every four years now.

The only new events seem to
be getting more pronounced.

So this

is I think the time to hand this.

Since So

since nineteen eighty quarter you had
a blank of the main glaciated range

that feeds the river as well
as some fifteen percent of

its glacial cover encompass
chinos really no I think.

This is one of the glacis
gracious plus truly.

It's no longer a glacier.

It's now a snow field.

And it is the most visited glacier and all
fruit because people can go up by road and

just walk in a kilometer or
so in touch it.

So prostituting it is
a national symbol or.

Which there has been some concern
here you see a glacier in v cosen and

the Pico seen us used to get ice from
the glacier you can see the scar

where it used to be fairly.

OK there.

Then it all grandmothers and everybody
will tell you about glacial retreat.

Because they see it.

It used to go to this rock.

Now it doesn't go to this rock ten
years ago it was at that rock it

doesn't go to that rock anymore.

So there's a very palpable
awareness of what's going

on the immediate crisis however
is a little bit different.

Is.

The good a shield Lakes.

Up in the Andes or growing now and

filling in the lake sit
behind rain well ma'am.

When there is a lot of concern
about these merino dams giving way.

Now.

One can shave uter the moraine
on Tam's giving way

is when you have huge chunks
of glacier falling off.

You know at one time.

Now.

The mining exploration that is going
on in certain valleys way way up high.

It is argued is just.

Shaking.

The earth and shaking the glaciers and

making far more alike leave
the calving off of large chunks

into the marina legs in a way
that's going to film rain on them.

And one of the gifts of
neoliberalism in Peru was that fair.

Used to be really good
water measurement stations.

Along these glacial way.

And a lot of very good weather data being
collected an early warning system if you

will that with budget cuts that early
morning system has deteriorated.

Now I think that there's going to be
an effort to build it back up again but

it is not what it was in even and
I nine hundred seventy S..

So this is the context.

I gave you shows you what some of

the likely impacts are going to be
I don't want to go into them here.

But what I do want to do is
think about the competition.

That's likely to take place because
if you don't have a good idea of what

the competition is.

You can't figure out how you get
beyond it in order to build.

Planning effort.

So first of.

It in the first instance
our competition is sectoral

different kinds of uses of water and
the second.

Upstream downstream.

And the Cerne regional between these
neighboring regions on cash and be very.

And if you look at the sectoral uses.

First and

I'll just run through this quickly
the first is equal article services.

These are important because of the stream
and the what's going on national park and

downstream in the fishing areas
tourist development in the area is

certainly related to the health of both
coastal and high altitude ecosystems.

So it can is urban consumption.

And here again we have the smaller cities
that are growing up in the kind of home

and a war.

Coastal cities.

Every new this is.

You know we have to think
of the demand for water.

Not just for drinking but
also for things like it.

They'll be making for small industries for
washing Well you know that there are all

kinds of uses of water but
also water pollution.

And here solid waste management and sewer
system so conspicuous by their absence.

Mining.

A recent analysis of
conflicts between morning

enterprises in communities in northern
Peru has showed that sixty percent of

these conflicts focus on water
of these sixty four percent were

concerned with contamination in
the mining sector recession tried to

indicate earlier is comprised of
this large international ground.

That's controlled by transnational
consortia the middle

scale mines that are run
by a national companies and

these little operations her flip
raining all over the valley.

Now it's a little operations that saw
hundred seventy five percent growth in

the years since two thousand and
one and two thousand and four.

She was.

Certain extent conflict with the big
mining Enterprises has been muted

by the fact that a significant
fraction of revenues

from the mine are returned
to the mining communities

on the other some to the region
some to the districts and

some you know right down to the community
level as a result some of these little

mining towns are getting rich but
neighboring communities that may be

affected by pollution are impacted and
impoverished.

If we look at culture.

I think the recent the two thousand and
eight World Bank.

Well Development Report says you know it
calls upon the international community and

I'm quoting here to climate proof farming
systems of the poor in the Andes.

It says very little about how
we should go about doing this

just appears in a sentence talks
a lot about out migration.

But agriculture and livestock.

You know I think are important not
just the local economies but to us.

Because this is the gene bank for potatoes
cane or another or crocs because you know.

This is the source of agro biodiversity.

It was a valid law center.

There were Coltrane on the coast

already about a conflict between
Did she make a century more cheap.

In May of this year
Prue's Association of bag-O.

exporters demanded that approving
government take contingency

measures to counteract the impacts
of climate change on their industry.

Well there's a demand going to be what
you know what are they asking for

didn't say in the newspaper article.

It's clear they're asking for water.

OK who's the water going to come from.

What's going to be more
important in the long year

ensuring that we get our Baracus.

Or.

Protecting the thing that we get a system

because in producing is going
to this is the kind of question.

That's already emerging.

So and hydropower of course.

How to power depends upon
a steady flow of water.

If all the water ends up being
consumed upstream of the plant and why

younker you're not going to have reliable
power power for the coastal cities.

So we can anticipate the subsector
role and sectoral competition for

water welling creasing like pit.

Coal and regional uses.

Against those uses which are deemed
to be of national importance.

And at the end of the day I think these
may end up translating into two upstream

or downstream conflict when
between the mining areas and

the agriculture and the kind on
the other between good culture and

the kind of home and the X.
for agriculture on cars.

How are we doing on time.

Ten minutes.

OK it's going to take
exceptional governance.

To.

Lead to coordinate and when it says plate.

But.

To date.

Governance in Peru is not exceptional.

It's not terrible.

You know it's sort of normal for
normal not only for

the global south was probably
better than the Chattahoochee.

But Dublin principles are to

curated Anthon one nine hundred ninety
one international water and environment.

State that water management should
be integrated participatory and

it should occur at the lowest appropriate
level and there is a principle

here of subsidiarity that given
the diversity of sectoral afters.

And the very different.

Law into a power that these actors

have I am wondering if
subsidiarity is the right way

to go to be effective
the management of the sun is

going to require integration
across sectors in integration.

At different levels of government.

But right now.

Response ability for
water management and environmental

supervision ration are dispersed among
at least eight different ministries.

And a second problem

is that there's been what I She is
partial and at the same time over

decent was ation partial in the sense
that some water related decisions.

Continue to be made at the national
level particularly those that relate to

the construction of new irrigation
works and concessions for being mining.

Responsibility for

addressing the environmental
implications of this decision.

Rice was very very weak district level.

This is you know community level think.

Well I don't have a good
Georgia equivalent but

you get towns of five ten thousand that

are supposed to be managing
responsibility for

environmental oversight and care and for
oversight of water use decision making.

Well panhandler is changing a little bit.

To two thousand and six World Bank
strategy document called for

institutional reform toward multi sectoral
management of water resources but

still the World Bank mantra is
decentralization decent was Asian.

And the worse the recent trade
agreement that was negotiated

with the US required the Pru establish
a new ministry of the environment.

So what we have now are two very new

agencies one is the Ministry
of the environment.

Which is supposed to coordinate
sectoral environmental.

Decision making but it remains to
see how much power it will have

it was apparently designed and
created within three weeks.

OK so we don't know how much
thought well into this second

institution that is in the national

not in management agency is house
within the Ministry of Agriculture.

But has moved the sector
over responsibility.

Again it's brand new.

We also have an autonomous authority.

Created by national field.

Governance of the real center basin.

It is supposed to be the lead
agency in making decisions in

matters concerning use and conservation
of water and soil in the basin.

It is conspicuous also by its absence.

It's just not there yet.

And so you get.

Authority for water capture and
management being centralized.

And good day to day work and management is
being done by people with little power.

And this really has created
a void a governance void and

it's this void that the institutions of
civil society are attempting to fill.

So let me conclude by saying
where do we go from here.

And what Rebecca enablers concluded on the
basis of her River Basin studies in Brazil

where collective and I'm quoting her here
a collective identities are necessary.

If people are to believe
they can collaborate.

These identities can develop when leaders
and initial collaborative practices

help frame ideas and
new ways cause networks to expand

build confidence among participants
about their ability to work together and

we need others to recognize
a given set of actors as a group.

M. Briquet says she's studying.

She found that non-governmental
organisations we came involved in

fairly narrowly defined efforts.

But these efforts involved
a reframing in a lot of problem.

And.
Ways that allowed people to see the river

basin as a real territorial entity
of which there were a part and

named both cases the organizations
that were doing this.

Gradually expanded the their
efforts creating networks.

With other organizations
good taste started small and

they started with concrete problems
it built up the confidence

among members that collaboration
would indeed be possible.

You know one case was tree planting in
another case it was small health care

programs and
I think we're already seeing some signs of

movement in this direction in
the Santa Basin the mountain and

city to our you see and the University
of what us a sharing information.

There's a group of rural mayors called
room would pray that this is beginning

to interact.

But the interaction is
continually frustrated

by the fragmentation of interest.

And most frustrating to the end she
says the total lack of interest on

the part of eggs for
agriculture and the mining sector.

So the question is whether we can
identify axes complementarity.

That can cross cut the existing
sectoral crave it has.

And I think one of the things that I would
like to do this summer is learn more

about how residents use
water at least in one or

two of this a basins of the river and
what they see is constituting socially

spiritually economically responsible use
and fair allocation of the water resource.

And I'm hoping that by moving.

From the need to use to
the need to protect and provide

it may be a little bit easier to think
about building process for alliances.

The second thing that I think
we can do is publicly recognize

the importance of the river in shaping
a regional culture and identity.

And I think we can do
that with communities so

that when the river in the valley
is already a slow food receive you.

There is a growing pride
in Andean agriculture.

There is a sense of place that
can be drawn on way back.

You know going way back to thirty
years ago there were songs

typical Andean country western music
that talks about the river and

record he had a blank and that you
know there is definitely a feeling for

a place that I think can be built upon.

Assert approach noted by ABERS A Cx
accused of little projects.

Well in the long governmental entities
that can help build the organizational

framework that can support
River Basin wind collaboration.

And here I'm hoping that we can get
involved with Engineers Without Borders

and see if we can get Engineers Without
Borders a tech to come down and

to identify and
maybe carry out some of these projects.

But here in the past two coordination as
you know long it's going to take time.

And the pressure to act
immediately is enormous.

For obvious reasons.

We can just hope that by killing two
Cruise insensibility is a bit it could.

I miss once ability recognition
of the rivers importance

in creating place they developing
organizational capacity.

We may get there in the end and
hopefully sooner rather than and later.

Thank you.

Peter.

It's always having to go off a cliff.

OK.

The mountains are too.

It has done is it has.

Chosen to become a convener.

Of a coalition.

On behalf of the Rio something.

It's because it had a long
presence who want us.

But in the upper reaches.

Now as convener of the coalition.

It's.

Its ethical obligation to the communities
and to the coast systems.

However it has reached out to.

It's even gotten support for some of its
activities from the big mining companies.

It's reached out to the press's.

Agro enterprises and.

Now.

You know it's an NGO.

So then the question is.

What can tech bring to that
collaboration and I think

there are three things you know what
one of the things that we can bring is.

The hydrology is being done.

I'm not I'm not worried about that
that's happening because according yet

a blanket is definitely geological
in chronological interest.

But what we don't know we don't we don't
we're not really mere suring pollution

adequately we don't have a very good sense

of what the contribution of different
mining enterprises is we don't have

technologies that would allow small scale
minds to better manage their wastes.

We don't you know we could use vice about

things you know things
like condominiums systems.

How small communities that cannot
afford a sewage treatment plants

can deal with sewage treatment and have
it can feel with solid waste management.

You know all this is where
I think Tech could fly.

A role.

It's not necessarily a role
that is going to attract fancy.

You know big science.

It's a role where I think as I
said Engineers Without Borders

can play a role and
I think a social scientists again.

Are you.
C.N.N.

is putting in a project when I you see and
puts in a project every day.

Because I you see and
this is the internationally and for

the Conservation of Nature.

They are very good at talking the talk.

Doc traditionally they have not
been very good at figuring out

where people are actually you
know where people's heads are at.

So I think one of the things we
have the leisure to do in tech

is to do research to do this kind of
investigation where we figure out where

people are at and and
personally I would like to do it.

You know the more I think about it.

It depends upon what T.M.I. once.

In a listening a sense of fairness and
responsibility.

You know what.

How did people see equity
in water allocation and

distribution kind of a sea fairness.

What you know what's fair.

What's unfair.

Yeah.

You know.

I can't

you know because we probably
don't have good reliable data.

But I do know that over
the past thirty years.

You know people used to go up to
the glacier all the time to just get ice.

If you needed ice in the community because
he walk up to the bush and walk back.

That is no longer a practical walk.

So in thirty years.

It's retreated kilometers.

I also don't know.

Again we don't hear I don't
have a hydrological date on and

I hope to get a better feel for
the project go.

Not.

But just talking to people
driving around the countryside

that used to be a snow
feel looking at bare rock

the retreat has been notable and

again the figure was I think
twenty percent since one

thousand growth.

Yeah

yeah yeah yeah

yeah yeah

yeah

yeah OK I

think publicity born for
saying it's going to.

OK and community level.

You have this marvelous
mechanisms of reciprocity.

And Exchange where they were exchange and
seed potato exchanges so

you know mechanisms of reciprocity many of
which go on on beyond the community level.

Have been there.

Traditionally the ability
to come together for

collective action and crew is just always.

He has odd me.

Really these communal kitchen
them on the coast earn example.

Now the problem comes
when you're beginning to

have to include the large economic powers.

In the country.

That in fact are important and

a national level because they
generate foreign exchange.

And I think what you have to do with
this is in the thinking strategically.

Yes you can build a collective identity
around the river because I think you know

it's already incipient you just
have to make it more expressive.

I think that your opportunity
cross-cutting kinds of

programs and
projects it will build relations of trust.

Then one.

You know I don't know for a work but I
would be really eager to see collaboration

between the fishing communities in
the mine affected communities way up high.

Because they're both
affected by contamination.

They need that with him has
an axe to grind against the other

day they don't know one another
they don't know what they do but

then you're getting the river
from the headwaters to the mouth.

I don't think it would take
a whole lot and we already.

We had this T.M.I.

You have this little conference
last summer and I'm a D.M.

and I participated in the there
it was called Come you know.

And they invited.

There were N.G.O.s from the Kohan.

And environmental management
committee from way up on the Poona

you know mining community.

On an NGO from down on the coast.

They are not ready to to you know.

Create a joint ten today but it was clear
listening to people from the coast and

listening to people from the high altitude
that it was there were places for

convergence.

So the question is how
do you make that happen.

Thank you very much.

I she didn't she didn't here
Nancy is we're going to try and

get Nancy down the summer.