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>> This is the final three. Hour letters for this fall semester for. Everybody. And still full clearly a long. Time to come more or to their participation but look I say the foundation look the other. Information the truth that in a. Free life they are very afraid that something.

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Might get through my street wonderful screenings loved it but for me in. Response to this and then the call to think very well in New York authors of the plan that were close enough looks like they're thinking you're a pretty good thing for office Good luck that day for you want to or you know you see the track record.

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For dangerously close to the day of the technology the local dishes architect pulling the foot up to. See how it's a project at night. In Tampa the first day to. Go traffic old is good enough to learn quickly you can Google it is a reasonable man title bringing dark night in the final shuttle or that they couldn't walk that way simple he needs a good.

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Connection to get them behind the section he didn't speak that six meters in the car the police did a good thing for the life and. Now little do nothing with it. In fact last night he agreed I sat in on a plan to climb the hatches I now want a presentation featuring the grid home business computer your partner little.

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Laptop computer and sat there was a very very good. Know it all graduate student you know you needed the adjective easy grant to fill those are the words one here is from myself I listed and the murder registered was sure I knew that. They're going to sit there and be free and I watched the presentation.

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To you it was the. First laugh but it wouldn't be that good thing did the first time laugh it off again like that. But yeah the ending and I glad to say I hear it was a bit tempered to realize I was kind of looking after the president for it would our speaker you know model Good luck with his gun and I think even still are all.

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Designer clothes and one element is introducing a new poll through all that is unfamiliar with the idea wrong cultures will send you for all very very good. Now later some time later because when that I think you. Know I think there's nothing we're doing good or warm and hero the world.

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Would be worse all I can do weird is online did you bring people room or run down the gym. For him Bryant is on the phone truth or. Yes. If. You. Think we can get them right straight up so. Well thank you very much great to be here how must admit coming in from New York and finding all this rain so it's a little bit Reich going back to London.

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It's great to be here so I'm hoping to talk to a little bit about how things are so complicated and design. As Kevin said. A bit about my book and a bit about the. Next year which I post cards and you'll find a website address so I'm not so you can check it out you can register if you wish but I'll show you a little bit more about that later.

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I think probably not so OK Anybody know how the lights work we were able. To go wrong in that we're. Not. In the stage. Thank God it's. Yes. And now it's so dark you want something on. Them something on for the audience. Well I waiting for some sound.

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We didn't see all the way around I'll take some questions in advance rather than at the end about that he's got some questions. It's getting so complicated it already is come together. It's got something they like me to talk about. Well but I will reveal. It is I think it's getting more complicated all the time.

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Well I've always been a project freak I think most designers are a bit interested in doing stuff so maybe that's it just you know there's always the interesting challenge of the very thing that hasn't been done before which I think is probably the prime motivator I could hear me at the back that.

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OK. So. We went home for a while. Now we're working on this book My idea was to try and so to have something about designing interactions which would be interesting for other people to discover them so I've interviewed forty people in the fields who are either famous innovators in interaction design or just had interesting ideas and I'm interested in the crossover between media so I did everything on video in terms of the interview.

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So I could make D.V.D. to put in the back of the book and then I could publish the book with a version of the stuff on the printed page with color illustrations but I also have a D.V.D. which has in it little clips from the interviews illustrated by the interactive things that people are talking about and put up a website as well so you can see those same clips on the Web site and you can download them for free on a weekly basis.

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You know the chapter of the week includes a P.D.F. of the chapter plus the videos that go along with it so if you don't want to pay for it you can download it for free. But MIT Press has done amazing job I mean they it's full price is forty dollars on Amazon it's twenty seven.

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Eight hundred page full color book including a D.V.D. D.V.D. I think that's amazing that here I mean isn't it great for its them for sticking with it because what happened to initially was that I said this was Ross to send in the first script the first relative the text for review which is typical of the book you know they send it out for review as a movie was made a lot of really interesting and useful comments which resulted in my going out and interviewing another fifteen people so the book got twice as big as I was originally contracted for and instead of saying throw away half of it they just went ahead and published it at the same price as they'd originally engaged with and I was very delighted about that.

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So you know if you were to look a straight answers the question to keep you busy it was four thousand three hundred hours and counting because I can't being here is part of the Honest. How are we doing for Son do you think it's close. Maybe I could tell you a little bit in advance about the connecting zero seven as well and I'm so excited is the international design body which the equivalent of I.D.'s A here in the United States but it's like a collection of really international equivalents around the world and they have a Congress every two years in a different country and the last time they had one here in the United States was nine hundred eighty five in Washington D.C. and then it's been moving around from country to country sense.

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In two thousand I was asked to be the chair of this thing because I wanted to put in San Francisco and I'm kind of one of the local guys and so the reason it was so far ahead we had to do a bit in two thousand and one because at that time we had the dot com boom and all the places in Sam Cisco were getting booked out so they thought they ought to put the bid in six years ahead instead of four years which is typical when you do a brochure and you know pitch and it's a little bit like trying to get the Olympics to come to your town on a very minute scale so I did that in Seoul in two thousand and one and then after that we got a really lovely place for it which is the Masonic center on top of not hill in San Francisco Masonic center is a beautiful twenty's building with earth and I heard it through them with comfortable seats for three thousand people which is great and I'm hoping that between two and three thousand and it's also very elegant building with sort of model columns forty seven feet high rectangular So it's a nice place to hang out.

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No pills a nice place to be as was the center of San Francisco and I chose not to October the seventeenth through the twentieth because that's the best weather in the year for San Francisco because you can't guarantee that but statistically it's more likely to be sunny and warm than either in the cinema or later in the winter I'm sort of doing it in October and the main thing is to try and get lots of people who don't usually.

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Notoriety I say conferences or exceed conferences to come because you know this is sort of typical audience of five to seven hundred Friday as a Nationals and this typical Rodion So five hundred for the exit for the international community put that together it's twelve so what we need to do is attract a lot of design folks from the road you're not member of anything but they just think it would be great to come to a very cool event so I'm trying to make it cool enough that you really want to come.

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It's my main idea so. I think we're getting close. So I. Just. Used to test it OK. OK it's running. It's probably blast out. So this is actually a fly's are a few of our office in San Francisco. You see we have this problem but. We have a office on the pier next door to us they have a place where the fishing boats come in and clean the fish.

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And it's pretty good in a week days because they have the time but over the weekend it tends to get a little high. And so we have this fly problem which I think was my first level of complexity every day life is complicated enough particularly if you have a fly problem and we have to make up with fruit with a little music.

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Which you might be able to hear one day. That's ahead of green design. OK we've done that test. Remove it. Things are looking up. It's not a good level back that. Right OK I go on. So I used to be so simple. You know when I graduated from college studying industrial design in London the idea was that really all you needed to know was about the sizes of people and the matter tricks and what's more you could look those up thanks to the wonderful Dreyfus organization and the measure of man were him in scale so it wasn't a big deal to find out how big we are in fact if you're designing a pair of glasses you know you have to know how bright you are for it is and where the nose is and where the ears are relative to the nose but that's about all that's a simple problem so it gets a little more complicated perhaps if you say well how do our bodies work so when it comes to designing a chad like this one for Steelcase.

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You have to think about the comfort I repaired of time this one has a really wonderful sliding mechanism with the space around the middle of the hips so that people can actually sit comfortably and slide back and forward intervening position in a way that suits fits the way the body moves the way the body works however now the road.

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Ships everywhere and so that's the first big change in the level of complexity where you can't really expect to be able to do that yourself even if you work with a traditional human factors person like a physiologist or an anthro metric person you can't expect to understand that so that's really why I wrote the book which is quote as I said the interviews I'm going to slide through this quickly because I said a lot of it already produced the D.V.D. in the back.

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And then we have the Web site which is just designing interactions in one dot com. And you can browse that and as I said there's the home page of the website and you can see their child through the week chapter three from the dust to the prom you can download that and then if you want to pick up the next week next next chapter next week when weeks when you've got the whole thing however if you think you want to print it out you find that the amount of money you spent on ink and paper was without merit twenty six bucks from Amazon.

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So in the chapter section you can browse each of the chapters and get a little explanation and then in the interview section you can go direct to any one of those interviews when you click on one of the so little version of the video that plays just postage stamp size which you can download that whole thing good high quality quick times at the end of the right week.

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So I'd like to flick into a chapter here this is chapter two my P.C. about the development of the P.C. and introduce you to prove a plank I do have a plank was working at Xerox when they were doing quite a lot of the early work on the P.C. and he joined me in San Francisco to help me put together what we thought interaction might be interaction design might be and he has a lovely way of drawing so I'll just let him explain the version of interaction design as he sees it with his drawings.

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Baby. To have. The courage to. Put. This in prison. The world. The world the designer has reported. Her wrong approach. To. The great question is how do you do. For the world. We're going to do with the world what a great rebel the world manipulated programable work product.

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Was good this new world the world. It's a questions feel is. There only coolness distinction between. Cool. Or strange. Cool. Really that's cool it's just. There any. Curse. In you will not let you change it only here. Will. I need a big questions. And. As you design your actions with computers and.

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It's very. User of those products you know that. This is the same. Or. You know. So. He or. She. And the first thing we thought we could it was soft face for software interface and a friend of mine told me you know that about time the Cabbage Patch dolls were very popular and he said Well that sounds a bit like a cabbage patch job you can sort of screws it streaks so we decided on Interaction Design instead and interaction designs sort of took off rather than being a relatively narrow discipline within.

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The graphic design or interaction design that seems to been recognized as the name for everything that includes designing everything technological everything digital so all the scientists and H.C.I. folks good more people more of Georgia techie type of people being clearing them so in that same. I think we have a lot to learn from play you know if you look at the business of play and you have to design a game so that people enjoy it right at the beginning immediately there's no learning difficult stuff so.

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It was interesting to talk to will write about how play works he's the inventor of all the Sims series of games. Actually has a new one was just come out but he's very articulate about how play is designed so here is cutting about half. Their. Eyes or three or four hundred balls.

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It's going to burgle he's going to really be going to do is like all these are so good in this office are that. This is really all there is you know a lot. Of it was the. Start it was also a ball off the ball in his arms.

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Or all. Of us are saying that they are there. Just as usual and that is one of them as well as being in a lot of that he. Really. Gave his office. Here in the Oval Office really while. Actually this is probably was the worst accident was. Easy or.

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At least in the way you know business is a state like you know. When I first played a game very first with eyes that. You. Know. It. Was. Nice if every piece of software was designed so you started enjoying it after only five seconds of introduction. So my next level of this complexity is the internet so everything gets connected together when the Internet became public I'm a very liberal thing this across a large group design so we can have a project now where doing some design work here and some mail is being done in Taiwan and some more in China and maybe the software is being written along with folks in India very much different rate sometimes a rock the cost to reach our is for those people so you have to figure out well how does my design fit in with this global contribution when you're working with other people but even more Also what would happen if you had open source design I mean then it's completely free isn't it so what part of your project could be open source where you just control the question and you get help from people all over the world completely free to get the.

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Interesting question. And I think Google is a spectacular story the fact that they have managed to keep the website so simple and remember that they did put this together during the dot com boom period where only other websites seem to have flashing banner ads and be for business and advertising and which got in the way of ones interaction and they just went straight for the results of the search and displayed them in a very simple drive approx So I actually interviewed Larry and Sergey in two thousand and two when they were two years into google way before they were talking of going public in fact they were not making money at that stage and it was funny because they were only a couple of years out of Stanford and they came to the interview with a video interview I had in the office in Palo Alto and LARRY TURNER.

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Up on time rang for the moment it's but surrogate turned up about twenty minutes later in a crumpled T. shirt on Israeli plates I'm sorry they did seem more like students than professionals about time but here they are talking about their approach to starting the company. Those schools from.

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The halls of smiles you know this room or a space or still you start to work especially his or her in his air and you just follow the links or search what you years of age if you are you know or you really are everything and. And you do it at a rate much worse I'll just say something sinister case study area is which is good enough or read.

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Your own novel or three and it was just the last three over all three years creased starts after that. Are smart people lots of years schools when you look at our usage mom and I censor the day just as just in US me to over a million so it's about and it's not news and you know I wasn't you know I'm off I don't suppose certain saloons are on load on those that actually got in the company.

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And the school quite small. And you realize how about those that actually Mount Everest when you when you the only actual search engine you know on some off and on since it's. People on there. Right. And I asked. If it's off so. It's. No. Use. What. Stretch. It's short.

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It's. Just giving a paper up they rob and then the other thing is this amazing ability to rise to an incredible challenge I mean so they said well we just don't know did the whole Internet that's not an easy thing to do but they did it so mazing.

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Having our music on the Internet is the sort of next level up as an approaching media that care we can use distributed on the Internet and this is a little project for a disc jockey was done with H.P. because H.P. I think wants to be seen more as a consumer company as well as a computer and a high tech company and so the idea here which we built as a rocking model I was to have a controller for mixing music but they distract you could actually run on the stage just by manipulating that and so they can do so as well as play the music and then here's another one which is something.

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Destructive billing brings back case of i Pod music with them. So the i Pod development. Story is another interesting one so here was the guy who did the chipset for the ipod but the point he makes I'll let him make it was summat came first in fact. Became refer all the internet before anybody sort of I ports.

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To look at the culture now. And it had its own building post office and you know in the last few years you're a student visual hop that can really irritate me in ways. I'm afraid it's going to not do it that culture and. Only that Apple makes it.

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Unique in this industry you know and to answer the question why I was so very very efficient and they started very slowly building up all the years they start by current technology goes down there and realize. This was back you know. It wasn't and it needed and they tried that in the which is French horn for.

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You believe it generally you say look I'm sure there are you know you're going to give them. To me and I'm going to yours you know why should first of all X. synchronize you know until it's cheaper to grid after I keep my first one. Of these devices is first what does this very resolution.

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Really doesn't mean much to the. Music and simplification of the design and it was early on through. And killed it. So. What. It was i Tunes software to help people manipulate digital music then it was the Internet connecting people together given the opportunity to purchase music online and then only as a result to the product emerge so it's an example of the complexity of a system rather than just an individual product.

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So phone service is you know they used to be simple and in the days when you use this kind of phone you just sort of run behind and start the thing to your ear when you talk to an operator human operator so the service design for the phone service was more a question of training the operators than a rose designing anything.

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And it was pretty easy to have that human to human relationship compared to the phones that we typically have now and you find that you've got this immense menu structure to navigate through and you've got to be able to enter text with this horrible keyboard but means you have to come for a times for an ass and.

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Even things on the Internet make it even more confusing in terms of complexity one of the most successful Internet based phone service in the world so far as the i Mode service from. America and Japan that started then ninety nine I think and in the first three years they got thirty three million subscribers in a population of one hundred sixty million which is amazing penetration so I thought I ought to go to Tokyo this issue and find.

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Who is the entrepreneur who started that service and developed it to find out what to secrets and terms of designing such a successful service. And there I was all over them they were in the jungle or the hottest thing on who. Was on in them and really this is really is.

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Unsaid can you present you look just don't know you know we need leading or with them. And you also it's all down in should be this really want to get on thier own sometimes very important because like. Own people using this we have all we work with the bombers and said this is.

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Because to look on its own. Circle here here. You all get over this. Because this is all it is an idiot finally. There's a you know it's all should be easy enough or. We need it all and so there are those who I think one of them want to move over this and also all of organisation.

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Is anything interrupt all in the eye each I can still move on this is you know are not all there is. Some good. News. On. The table in the blogs just. This is in pieces and on in the nation you start. All over. All. These aren't based on all things.

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People in Europe can call It's an instance of all in all. You know all I know you. This is really an example if. She was actually very clever in terms of attracting rights websites that would be attractive for the user it was so fun to do things like timetables for trains which are very important to.

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He did things like online banking and to tame and wrote some of the movies tonight but I think he makes some extra claims which were not so successful I just can't believe the car okee story and there was another one that he mentioned was the idea of going soft drink like a Coke in fact I see that on your building for using your cell phone and it just happened that the people in our Tokyo office a few months before I went to do this interview had done a little observation of what it was like to buy a Coke using the i Mode service here's what happened.

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Yes. So it was a cold November morning to poor come out of Ohio tomorrow I think it illustrates my point about this complexity thing because if you think about it as a design problem designing a telephone is a quite complicated problem just as a physical object you have to put it up against your face very intimate this is intimate as a wine glass but then you've got this user interface as well the screen on the controls the buttons on the object but the time scale for designing those phones is maybe a year and a half on top of that is the service provider who's designing a service that then they have to buy these phones that have taken longer to develop and without control over the way that the interface is operated how the interaction design happens when they have to design a service but if they then connect to the Internet was a whole lair of stuff where they've got to try and find the right Web sites and.

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At the people who run those websites to design a version that scalable in that it can fit onto that small screen with. Direct manipulation cursor device so very complicated set of problems not surprising they sometimes go wrong. Going on at the hierarchy though I think we have to remember the rest of the world the other for a billion.

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What to do about designing for that there's different cultures. There's an example here of an approach which is taking a local approach and scrolled deep well pump this is something to irrigate vegetable so you can grow them in East Africa by a company called Pro TAC and very successful in that market it's human powered it's designed and built by the locals say that it's appropriate technology for them and the price is right as well and the only thing they needed a little help from in terms of high tech stuff from the rest was something about the fowls to make sure that it would prove water out from below the water table and plot periods so that's that's one approach to the other for a billion another one of course is to give the other for a billion the tools that we have and there are several attempts including one hundred dollars laptop and this project inkwell trying to get computers for kids around the world to the very can actually make them very robust and easy to carry and give them access to the Internet in the same way that we have and this is actually a project in.

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A consortium of fifty companies including a lot of the bigger ones for software education and so on so I think it may stand a better chance of being systemic some of the other attempts. And then we have to say well at the top level what about the plan itself that we going to do to look after.

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Profits and avoid global warming and think about sustainability and design. The thing that we found most useful or I found most useful in the small amount of growth that we've been able to do over the years is to ask the question where does it come from and right is it go to.

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Do that every design project we have a little hand up that we use ourselves here for or trying to be aware of the life cycle and the tools that we need but the catch twenty two is that as design as we really only operate in a very small part of the total cycle the material is made and goes through several iterations before we have to get to choose it and after something is designed and manufactured and put out there we can't really control what people do with it in terms of recycling.

[00:46:43]
Toss the question where does it come from and right is it go is a very useful question I think we found that if we all start with every briefing meeting with every project sometimes it will engender an interest in the project team to choose materials that are carefully considered for sustainability and try and design for recycling in a way that they wouldn't otherwise have done.

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There's a little concept project looking at. Shopping bags and this is using a compostable plastic so you can just throw your plastic shopping bag onto the compost heap and it dissolves. One other approach is to use something the opposite something that will last a long time but is extremely light right some strong so you can fold it down put it on something that small enough to fit in your key ring and after you can carry it with you and reuse it many times.

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I mean other idea was to use the recycled rubber from car tires particularly nice when you have room for a wine bottle in the center. And advertising of course is. Out of the project it told a story. So. I've had some fun advising Tesla which is a new start motor car company in place in California doing the first electric sports car this is the slow roadster and it's actually using lithium batteries the ones that you're using your cell phone but thousands of them and it has a range of three hundred miles which is pretty good for an electric.

[00:48:23]
Performances wonderful zero to sixty in less than four seconds so that it's faster than any portion not quite up to the Ferrari but a lot less expensive than that and here you see the plate a full sized play that was built by the design team at Lotus engineering in England based on a lotus chassis but the unique design for Tesla nice to see a full sized model that looks as realistic is that they used the sort of super coaching that goes on top of the Christ so it has a really reflective quality is.

[00:48:56]
OK So what's next for design. I don't think about the future but about strange things like bio and not our. I have a chapter towards the end of the book called futures and the eternity of now is which tries to pose and answer some of those questions there are a couple of people teaching interaction design in London Tony down in Fiona Raby who have some somewhat kind of weird ideas which are quite interesting that.

[00:49:37]
It's such a. Internet pain is very unsure. Which. Ones. Own Words. On her change. Her young seniors. Example the years. Old the rooms. I almost lost it was slurred shoes foods such as which loses old news it's losing just falls over the last few. Months To her it's a very.

[00:50:41]
Good. Looking man and a love child and she found nothing in the mean in any news. Just coming in she is home. Tonight and. It's it's his. Readers who the. Strength. Of the students were. Or will. Be. So that if you learn. Cherish good sense the worst was going.

[00:51:38]
On around us before our words. Hurt you the look. On. So what I've said about complexity is summarized here starting at the bottom the circuit of a hierarchy perhaps So beginning we think of designers worrying about what size we are and tricks we move our pro to the next level and we worry about how our bodies work physiology.

[00:52:35]
Put these chips in everything and we have to worry about cognitive psychology how our minds work for a man machine systems then we connect everything together with the Internet and we have to worry more about how we relate to each other social and read about the other four billion robots more anthropology and of course of the top sustainability.

[00:52:59]
So I have found that throughout the kind of research and understanding and listening to all these people preparing my book materials there seems to be a recurring theme and that is the idea of people on prototypes so I made the final chapter in the book not only more interviews but just a kind of description of a process which we had idea used but was reinforced by running from the other people and finding that success stories seem to nearly always involve both understanding people and building prototypes particularly rapid ones so thinking of the people side you know I think designers in general whether they're from any design discipline are often guilty to driving for themselves and sometimes that's appropriate but not always we can forget that we might be older than you or you.

[00:53:51]
Ungar than ourselves or perhaps rebellious teenagers or from some different background some different job and that idea we've evolved fifty run methods which we've published as Adak which are laws people to do the kind of use based research people based research which helps in the business of trying to understand the late needs of people and I think you know that's significantly different from market research if you look at the left hand half of this diagram that's the traditional market research techniques for small quantities which are really necessary to build a business case to find out how much people would pay for something or how many of them will want it but it's the right hand half about plate needs.

[00:54:41]
The sort that you're going to need when you're trying to create something innovative to do a design which hasn't been done before that's a completely different sat and that's what these fifty methods are about. And on the prototyping side and I think if we think of traditional interaction design and most people think of it as screen graphics so things like macro mind direct or flash are typical prototyping tool of course that's different from the physical design where we would think of having a shop for prototype so hard why we think of having a lab but nowadays if I thinking about the full experience of interactions I'm in the levels of complexity that I've described maybe we need different prototyping techniques making videos tell stories during a not minutes and using computer aided design for visualization but particularly important I think is to remember the really kind of cheap quick and dirty things the things that allow you to do an iteration on a prototype very quickly try something out and then test it with people and then go back and try the next prototype so.

[00:55:51]
Doing a menu structure with just some stickies rather than having a lot of software to do it throwing a photograph of the beach and doing a scenario telling a story about using a camera on the beach those are the sorts of techniques that can be very quick and effective to go through ideas quite quickly and that's evolved crossed into a kind of process which is basically iterative in the sense that you tend to go in a circular motion starting with constraints and going through sensors framing ideation etc but in real life I think you don't need to follow that in any way in a rigid manner and I put that green line in the center just to record it to a particular project and see where we went in that particular project and found we bounced around from point to point on the circular iterative process in a way that wasn't really structured it just seemed to be the best thing to do next and I certainly think one should have a license to do that.

[00:56:50]
OK I really introduced this idea as a thing a little bit before we got our sound and so I rushed through this sort of a bit but this is happening seventeenth the twenty eighth of October and the cards that I handed out have the website on it so you can literally information you might want to.

[00:57:10]
Read hoping that will be really special design a fount or reduce ration is open at this website and this is another name for the website but one of the card works as well. Right having themes of connecting people in places virtual investor or beauty and bounty and I mentioned the strike Masonic center there it is and we also have rooms booked in the hotels the families hotel and the Stanford Court Hotel new top of my peril right next to the masonic center.

[00:57:42]
And we're having our final do with a the closing party for Mason pier that's the middle of the piers in the third. From far away. Now so little invitation or video that I hope will tempt you to come. To. Terms. With. The. Components of the cuts. Not yet.

[00:59:05]
Only Rock the surface I'm like you must go for a moment Look I'm cold it's. All focused on that it's. Going to. Join a long time ago. We wanted to the international community to come we have quite a lot of sponsors already and the main thing about that is to keep the price down so.

[00:59:51]
By keeping the prize the same as a normal national I.D.'s a conference by having all these folks pay for part of it. Thank you. It's quarter past seven already I mean you have a chance to go drinking so I don't know where that Kevin is going to allow me any question time or not.

[01:00:19]
There is a question that the case but let's have some rights if we can. In the Congress. Do you prefer being to design conference is this sort of Contents going to be like that it's for design isn't about design. The basic idea is that we have breakfast in the masonic we have a plenary session with very high reverence speakers in the mornings then we have a break for lunch where people go to the other location where there's a big exhibit and the afternoon this breakout sort of power at all but the same speakers from the morning come back with another group so they can kind of have a more interactive session with a somewhat smaller group of people and then in the evening we have tools of San Francisco open design offices receptions at museums and stuff and then we have a project last night so my idea is that you have enough content that really makes your head hurt in terms of inspiration and new ideas but you also have plenty of time for social interaction and a great time.

[01:01:29]
Yeah. But I think the lesson that. Right brings to the picture is that if you think it is a loop in terms of the learning you avoid the barrier of rejection because you know if you take these games through the sims you can actually get into a thing where you have a project that's weeks long but you only do that when you've gone through this process of learning and I think there's a lot of software where we just get impatient about it I mean ordinary people just get furious pushed off because the first experience they have is too long maybe five seconds you know they might manage for a minute but it's going to be quick so you've got to feel some confidence in your enjoyment and ability to move through it before you're willing to take the next step and there's plenty of examples in interactive lives where that's not the case when games however close those products die I mean in video and computer games because they don't have a tradition of chess.

[01:02:47]
About them and so people you know just reject them they don't get sold so I think the game industry has really learned how to do that loop of learning which in fact is rather similar to the difference between a rock design consumer product for a computer and one that's much of the business oriented.

[01:03:05]
And we can see that kind of happening elsewhere a case as well so I think we shouldn't underwrite people's impatience. But I think absolutely no designer can do that I mean that's that's really why we have interdisciplinary teams so if you know if you take a traditional thing like a grass or a chair or lights then certainly a single head can deal with that and that sort of design is.

[01:03:51]
Certainly if still available but if you take them in a challenging problems like so often for example there's no way that an individual could so that kind of problem so what we're doing is looking for ways approaching people to gather so that the shared mind becomes much stronger than individual now and and so we have a team which has got interaction designers industrial designers graphic designers engineering designers electronic manufacturing mechanical.

[01:04:20]
Business factors human factors. And brand factors and those people assembled in a team that's right for the project and then that kind of work together and we have a saying check your disciplines at the door I mean we want people to be very expert but when it comes to collaborate saying we don't really care who comes up with the idea they just go in and collaborate and come up brainstorm come up with something and then going to do something that's greater than.

[01:04:49]
Any of them could do as individuals and that's why we call it to shape people because if you think of somebody who's a really in-depth expert that kind of I shaped and you want people with that strength and a discipline or perhaps even more than one discipline but if they're not interested in collaboration they become a like an artist or an inventor perhaps so they work successfully in a team like that you need to really be interested in collaboration across the two spends as well so it's very low protein shake people.

[01:05:17]
Yeah. Well. You know I think it's a very difficult question. I don't think I know the answer it's probably going to be experimented with for a long time and to me a balance between that protector approach which is trying to do everything as locally as possible and infirmed version of Let's hope people may be used to secret.

[01:06:08]
It seems to me that you need to start with the educational needs for a start and. The thing I don't like about one hundred dollars up top is that it seems like it's so computer designed by quite a computer guys then that then hoping the rest of the world would adopt those I feel that the approach which says more let's go in and try and understand what the education needs for all the populations that designing for all and then try and provide a solution for that is more likely perhaps to succeed but I don't think anybody is really very close to making it happen it's going to be great if you could dedicate your life to it really.

[01:06:47]
It was interesting it was very. Hard to find on. Earth actually I'm so tired. I actually don't live on. A lot of time. Very well what. Are you are like yeah I do very little I. Did all of you being here. A whole lot more usable. Really we get you much.

[01:07:31]
Not. Guilty and we were. Wondering. That it will be and where it was. Very you know that it was not only. It is very wonderful committed John. In fact I was incredibly thrilled with the endorsement that he gave me for the book which we'll see when the Web site and on the back of the book he was very enthusiastic about this as he was one of the people lost interest I had fear of the kind that you describe but my panic completely was very nice about it but I do think that he does like a contrarian opinion so I think this is sort of an exercise about saying the over popular thing the super success let's just criticize that a bit and maybe you can call that conundrum necessarily sort of interesting opinion but if you come to the kind of generic thing about that.

[01:08:33]
I kind of use an analogy of friendship and expertise and I think she's actually the kind of site that I'd like to have as a friend because it's early stuff and you got to browse around a little bit models but you can have fun with it whereas if I'm doing a job I want to go to Google because that's so much intently getting the one thing I actually want to that moment in time so that's like a simple work to work companion as opposed to a friend but I think there's room for both of them.

[01:09:08]
One more. So. I. Really. Where. I really. Hear that the back. OK. So maybe I could do the second one first you know the to do. Schooled Stanford is something that I'm peripherally invalided David Kelly has been setting it up that a founder of idea that the founders of idea and the idea that these crews to have any academic advisor meant something where people are collaborating across disciplines so every project has for people in each team one of them is a technology person taking on a master student Sadly neither one will be a master student in design either one in business under threat and human sciences and these guys are collaborating together and when they set up a structure one of the things that I was asked to do in my role in the product program at Stanford was research the rest of the world to see if somebody had done so not this before and if they were learning so about for instance things like who is the best facilitator who's the best leader and it turned out that in Helsinki they've been running a program like that for about ten years and I asked them those questions now does it turn out that the design is the best as soon as eight years in the business guys the best leaders and they said no it actually doesn't seem to have any statistical connections about discipline and it turns out that it's the people who just have the facilitation of qualities or the leadership coaches in each team who take those roles and if you have more than one leader in the team it's very healthy there's a little competition but somebody emerges.

[01:11:16]
Similar with a certain age or well as if the only time it really goes wrong is when nobody takes a facilitation Well nobody takes a leadership role so it kind of shakes it so far out as long as there's some mouth kind of credit you have those resources in the people and I mean if you're a first question.

[01:11:34]
Right I mean I think the difference between design disciplines is really the shop you know if you look at the difference in a graphic designer an architect industrial design and interaction design a it's not the creative process I think we share that I think it's the nature of that you have to learn to do it so the craft.

[01:11:51]
And I was to write about type and the page on what happens when print. Resigned I have to write about how to make three dimensional objects small things that I was a lot about space and building structures and the interactions I have to write about the stuff that we do with technology screens and uses conceptual matter as a metaphor as and how software works and how hardware and put devices so I think it's just another set of things to run so anybody can move in my view from being any of those disciplines to the other one but if they give themselves time to go on a bit.

[01:12:29]
I think I said thank you. Paula.