My name is Lacy Hodges I'm
the academic transition programs

manager here in Georgia Tech which means I
oversee our G.T. one thousand first year

seminar program as well as project one
our first year reading program and I'm so

glad you are here tonight to talk trash
with Edward Humes the Pulitzer Prize

winning author of our project
when reading the sheer biology or

getting love affair with trash so
I'm a biology it takes the complex and

often a shocking issue of America's
trash addiction one of the great things

about the book and one of the many reasons
we chose it as our project one reading

this year in addition to its connection to
our new server learn sustain initiative

here at Georgia Tech is that it confronts
an issue that a lot of us probably don't

think of very much about and probably
don't want to think very much about and

it turns it into something very compelling
and interesting and also a kind of

terrifying rate because Garbology is
scary and a lot of ways after reading

it I didn't want to use the plastic route
of all the plastic bag ever again but

in addition to all of that shocking facts
and figures it also provides us with a lot

of hope because it talks about how we have
the power to change what we've done and

what we're doing and
if we have control over our ways and

if we have the power to develop solutions
and to create some kind of change.

I'm incredibly grateful that as able to
come to tack today and talk to us about

our trash addiction and about our waste
because it's such an important issue for

our campus and
our community and our world so

before I welcome Ed up to for his talkers
want to talk you just fix very quickly so

once he's done with his talk we're going
to have been the floor to questions

we have a couple of wireless mikes so
if you have a question after the talk just

raise your hand and we'll bring a mike
to you but that will wait a little bit

first Ed is going to come talk
to us about Garbology and

the way back from a race and if there
is one so without further ado please.

Join me in welcoming to

Georgia Tech Edward Q.

All right.

I'm going to make it.

So I'm trying to picture this

shining moment a few months ago you
know when the freshman of Georgia Tech

have been admitted to this wonderful
school when you're about to embark on a.

New adventure and

stage in life and with comes in
the DIDN'T to be a common reading.

A book about trash.

I remember we were actually kind of this
is what I'm paying twenty five grand

a year for
I got to read a book about waste.

I will play with that I'm
seeing some dads out there.

Because I think I most.

Of this book about trash is really.

Bigger than just garbage it's.

Trashiness really and I don't mean that in
the quote actually in her teens you since

I'm you know we're all trashy
this is just a signpost for

a greater amount of waste that
some better lives and Iraq style.

You know it's a.

Person who was also trashed but.

It's a physical
manifestation of the spirit.

Respond this and I would add to
this really from this that we go

on a regular basis is at the root cause
of many of our big social environmental

economic problems a lot of a boil
down to or certainly exacerbated by

waste and you know we're grappling with
these big problems as a country and

as individuals you know
Brad our trash cans and

I don't know where it is embedded in
our transportation system center energy

systems I found this scary
Troy if I can make it come.

Because.
Nine percent about energy according to

Livermore National Laboratory is trash
it's waste and we're producing it but

we're not using it and you know some
roast is inevitable in any system.

That.
Runs a race this kind of kind of crazy.

It's just part of a lifestyle.

For production hasn't and
if you start looking for

it well is rampant.

And the problem is that it's a habit you
know we have this way for so long it's so

familiar.

It's become very hard for us to see and

certainly hard to see clearly
trash to the curb each week and

it seems to magically disappear but
it doesn't really disappear does it I

just learned today you know how much
this group used to have it's trash.

Thirty thousand dollars a month.

But that is not cheap but
is across the business.

When you have to examine
the story of trashiness.

It can be a vehicle for something
bigger and that's an opportunity.

That I roasted is the biggest
opportunity of our century when

to conserve both planet and profit you
know that conserve our self interest and

help us so bad there's you know we've
got this great new program here.

We have to get it right here.

To sustain yet it's got over that
can be found in the trash can so

I'm going to challenge you because there's
no better place than a university and

there are better people in costumes
this kind of course I'm going to.

Men and women of Georgia Tech to step
thinking about better ways to deal with

with just the generation sort of person.

It is about how we think about it that
change is you know I love this quote

you know the first day of grabs to
have a much tighter version of this.

Again this guy has said something that
applies perfectly to the west for

that we've created for ourselves if
you want to include it you have to

start thinking about it differently now.

For the better America is the world
in a lot of stuff unfortunately trash

production is one of them it's the biggest
thing we make it's a number one product.

And then go to expert in dollars and the
number one export in volumes you know in

this container ships loaded up in Western
East Coast ports to go back to Asia

the biggest thing on them
is our trash scrap paper.

You know it's kind of the line I used
in the book is that we've sort of cast

ourselves in the room with
China's trash contactor and

that's that's a good deal for
them but it hasn't been the.

Accent for us.

We make fifty percent more trash than
the average Danish person twice as much

as the average Japanese person these
are both intense consumer economies and

somehow they managed to make significant
progress worse than we do you know.

Georgia Tech is just the film is for
its engineering program and

for producing really brilliant engineers
so let me ask you what is excessive to

an engineer it's a failure of design and
my grandmother would say it was a failure

of character but an engineer would
say it's a failure of design and.

An efficiency.

I have to think about for habits this
way you're building a design and

engineering a colony on Mars let's say for
the moon with

equipped with.

Toxins into the air supply.

Power in such a way that they will percent
of the fuel that you have to source

from the other side of the planet
a great expense will demand for

perfectly good equipment and.

Materials.

First answer to resupplied on
a regular inquest of those of us

if you never was if you live the way
we live here on planet Earth

how does your columnist do with the Week.

And the interesting thing
about this is that.

We're going to.

Bring people in this.

Space can we call Planet Earth
right now and it's a big colony but

it's finite it has limits and we're going
to there's only going to be that weren't

you freshman in the right sort of.

That Mark and.

You know it things run out I mean in
California you follow red we have a type

of drought going on that drought is
a function as much of waste as it is of

climate and the lack of rainfall we were
packed up with no Use Of Will California

for this country than any other still in
the union so there's just a big story.

I so I would submit that it's the story of
our time so OK if you're reading a book

about a bad flash and we're having
conversations about rooms tonight.

I said it's about time you know we
need to have this conversation.

About this is just the kind of give
you guys are going to kick the can.

To get the conversation going so
I think of it as a detective story another

journalist I've been reporting since
I've been out of college and everything

really boils down to kind of a mystery
story and was questions to answer and

mystery you know the three questions that
I want to focus on how trashy are we.

Why should we care.

Who cares right a lot of
people do feel that way but

the question of time and to do about it.

The way that if you did nothing that said
let's talk I want you to take to heart and

that's the idea that.

We sense something.

A big problem that you can
do something about and

that there can be a real and tangible.

Payoff for doing that.

For those of you.

Read at least the beginning.

I started with a scene
involving some pillars and

I thought you might be interested
seeing with their house looks like.

This is the house of a very nice
retired couple the glassed and.

He was a chemist she was a teacher but

in the retirement became obsessed with
the bat never threw me anything away.

Cumulated so much material that
this is what they were there so

they seem to have a problem with cats but.

We just didn't throw anything away
until the gaps in the point were

buried alive beneath the trash and
they had to be

rescued on the verge of death by people
who finally had seen them in weeks and

it was a strange smell coming from
the house very powerful smell.

They were found.

And when they heard they were the least
here's the interesting thing because

you may see.

From such an kind of behavior you know
what does this have to do with us

who could possibly normally accumulate so
much waste and

that's the crazy thing the five to six
times that came of that left house

that were committed over two years is
exactly normal this is what we all like

that our trash a website is just that most
of us landfills not our living rooms but

this is completely normal so we.

Are going to some members.

The average American for
over seven pounds of trash.

A day and their computers through
the bully with some other nations

average American trash per year one
point three times that's proportion so

if you have if you just throw your
trash on the phone for you to say I was

going the route of complaints from your
neighbors you would have a small mountain

of trash with a one point three turns on
average and the rough time trash well.

One hundred two tons for
the average lifetime.

Clip a week three hundred eighty
nine million tons a year so

you get one group but
if you had to put your

trash in a cemetery you'd need
the equivalent eleven hundred graves so.

Think of the pit that's
a lot of cemeteries of trash

if that's how we stored it for all of
America I try to find ways that you can

imagine these big numbers it's
not easy but I like that one.

There's no one clip of you and
your trash quotient is more than or

the corners made by Detroit
since World War two.

So go for broke I spent time at landfills
you know I thought that was going to be

kind of gross and it was but it was also
fascinating in a horrifying sort of way so

I skip the numbers here we send
them to Memphis at this rate

ministers two sets of numbers here the.

Numbers the blue the wrong.

Bag more of the.

One hundred percent on the amount going
into landfills if you look at their actual

tonnage figures it's a fraud not we
don't have the money to fix it so.

Columbia University and
I join a club by a circle that

actually measures the way it's going into
our landfills It's pretty horrifying total

three hundred eighty nine million so
this is gravity.

And if you get the scale
this place is the largest

When I wrote the book
the largest active landfill.

In America this is a town so
you get the scale off the of the our

subdivision actually you get the scale
of how big that trash mountainous.

Structure in Los Angeles five
hundred feet or so used this.

Year said to me is suppressed if you're
standing on five hundred feet of

trash straight down it used to be a valley
now it's a mountain of trash I mean that's

I was impressed that he's right
I was terrified but impressed.

So.

You.
Podiatrists.

Parking on top of this
it's a big place but

if you had to America's Americans
claim to make enough trash

to make three of these mountains in one
year so question right things we're making

mountain ranges of trash in it or
the equivalent.

So what component of our
trash is kind of interesting.

Containers and packaging the disposable
stuff the coffee cups the soda cans and

bottles that's the number one category is
stuff that instant trash as soon as you

pay for it and bring it home that's what
it's trash and that's what's taking up so

much of a space so when it's
perceptible some of it's not even.

To the landfill then goes to
recycling in most states.

I should I should say that
there's eight states that

really recycle Well thank you yes what's
different about those eight states

the ones with the container deposit was.

There works its place is a dime somewhere
else it drives recycling like nobody's

business so
good it is not one of those states.

You know roast the other thing that is
really crazy is food scraps from waste

its food scraps it's all kinds
of food huge amounts of food

some estimates forty percent
of our food is where we stood

somewhere along the line
from farm to table.

And when I picked levels of waste.

It just to me if you could show.

Five percent off that raised you
could feed four million people

just five percent of our food with us.

So I think I've moved my clothes
that were trashing All right so

let's move on to the second question.

Why should we care if somebody actually.

Does this every.

Time I go somewhere because
there's a case to be made for.

A motion ship between trashiness and
wealth because when the economy is

good people are buying more stuff and
they're making more trash throwing

up more packaging there's more
shipping there's more waste so

why shouldn't that be a good
thing we should celebrate it and.

When there's you know there
is a relationship but

it's kind of a false equivalence because
the words doesn't make the worst is over

is it cos it's just that we can afford to
raise more when we're more prosperous and

so it's not a relationship
that we really want to.

Maintain if we can help it I think.

People have trouble with a lot
of environmental issues because

the environmental movement in
general has been a little.

Unable to explain I would be green as
a moral good right people should care and

not a reason gauging people's self
interest I think it's important that

whether you're appealing to the health
of somebody who's kids whether

appealing to their rabbits it's
important to sure that things like

sustainability like waste reduction
have an actual tangible reward besides

you know altruism is important but it's
not going to get the kind of engagement we

need as a country to solve
problems like waste.

So there are tangible things about when
if there is that we should care about and

that affects us directly.

Toxins underneath it were supplies we want
to live next to that you no matter what

it does to stay bad news when these kinds
of things begin to threaten the fabric and

the infrastructure of where we
live there's never a problem.

They spew epic quantities of methane.

Actually I produce this this landfill

in California garbage mountain where the
first people to figure out how to succeed.

Remove.

The methane that's emitted by rotting
garbage and then they put a power plant on

top fifty thousand people fifty
thousand homes can be power and

when the garbage has stopped going into
this mountain last year it will keep

methane to drive that power station for
twenty years from.

Now many many landfills at the methane
escape into the atmosphere

it's a very potent
greenhouse gas some of the.

Down for downside of landfills.

I never think about trash that people
are rightly concerned about is the trash

that gets away almost ocean plastic
pollution you guys are familiar

with some of the concerns that
would raise the gyres of plastic

that has have been detected
in the oceans and.

Americans plastic plastic was amazing
as a Hard to imagine My been right

before that when it was invented.

You know it was used for

durable objects first it was
sort of curing the reference for

ivory and then we started making amount
of plastic it's actually been around

before think the thing about plastic is
it doesn't break down you know there's

no biological process or natural process
that absorbs it back into the rabbit so

it becomes a problem when you make.

Disposable items out of plastic they
get loosed into the environment because

the planet systems planetary systems
can't cope with it you know look at that

plastic grocery bag it has a use for

life measured in minutes it has
a reduced life measured in centuries so

returning those loose on the environment
and a certain percentage of plastics

end up in the ocean right.

The equivalent of for audio craft carries
a plastic or lost at sea every year

you know if it was the Fatima course
it would probably be the entire U.S.

Navy and then sun because prestigious
away it's a right basically at.

A lot of plastic getting into the ocean
system now why should we care

about this because that trash.

Becomes this and
it becomes this particles of plastic

reduced to the size of plankton by
a by weathering by wave action.

Degradation to sunlight.

Causing the plastic to
become gruel brittle and

crack into small pieces smaller
fish eat the plastics but

with fish eat them and say one recently
did a survey with fish markets and

same in Cisco when I had a friend
had plastic in their guts.

A lot of it was synthetic fibers
from her clothing that showed

into washing machines and end up flushed
into the ocean eventually what the maker

of beads in those scrubs everybody likes
to use you know there's a mostly plastic.

There into the ocean and plastic is kind
of inert so it's not necessarily a problem

for fish to eat them the big
problem is that there are.

Toxins that are and chemicals that
are hazardous to any life form get

into the ocean and they're not rushed
I have also they're always looking for

something to cling to and these
plastic bits are those some things so

you're also getting toxins into our food
supply you know nobody knows exactly where

this is going what kind of we are the lab
animals in a great experiment to see what

happens if we keep throwing pollution and
toxins in the ocean and then eat it.

And there's been talk about this big
ravage patch and people picture big

floating pieces of debris in the ocean and
that were the only thing that was

making this problem because it would be
possible to clean some of that up but

the big problem is the small particles
this challenge of plastic that.

Mixes it up with plankton and the
creatures that eat it and that probably is

not possible with cleaner the only
solution is to stop making it worse.

When we talk about a history.

What I will restore and
this fellow I think is part of the story.

Is Back when plastic was just entering.

Trash cans and disposable economy.

This.

Is kind of one of
the Mad Men characters but

you know earlier he was
a branding genius he invented.

Corporate branding really and
this idea he came up with.

I mean Mr Pipe was something before
it was going to is a phenomena

in the other society in history
I mean think about that.

It runs contrary to one of the oldest
of humanity learned through it you know

basically the market
leaders of this year are.

The very big consumer economy as we
know it now and the real imagined how

we consume things to do
it instead of three.

And preserving possessions as ever
which is kind of the legacy of

the Great Depression.

We had this new prosperity after
World War two we had the G.I.

Bill transforming that and then creating
a you know the middle class by sending

people to college in record numbers and

around to become members in their own them
to be prosperous and buy more things.

And the secret to success according to
this guy was get them the food good stuff

away so they can buy more.

And part of the idea was that we had this
magical abundant economy that would never

run out of things you know the economy of
abundance he talked which of course is you

know magical thinking There's not
everything runs out sooner or later.

But his triumph was to persuade
us to think that disposable

stuff is great that it's a convenience
that it's a life style and Hansard with.

Sequences right who cares if we throw
about this stuff it means we're only going

to send more stuff.

And that is why the.

Home for question products whether
it's the plastic in our oceans or

the junk mail give a free ride a subsidy
if you will you guys never jump Milla

subsidized Natalie bad
an artificially low.

Rate and it's half of our mail more than
half but because they don't have to clean

up their mess right we have to clean up
the junk mail we have to dispose of and

pay for it's a really great business
model you can have this horribly wasteful

product that nobody wants and you get
a free ride for it worth the true cost of

where plastic or efficient cars that.

Are good and give people asthma and
and lung cancer if that true cost was

reflected in the cost to the makers of
these products instead externalize and

some other people paying the cost would be
no junk mail the business model would fail

there'd be no disposable
plastics that business model and

we'd have way better cars on.

The streets sort of secret
hidden subsidies traces.

In the waste.

And they're so ingrained into how.

We live and our culture here in America
they're trying to take these subsidies

are really decried as harmful taxation and
regulation you know

it's really time to turn
capitalism when it's head by.

That way for the damage and
flipping through your products is somehow.

Evil when in fact it's you know
kind of pure capitalism in a way.

That's my spin anyway on it and it's
daunting when you're up against the sort

of ingrained habits and
incentives that encourage race when this.

And really not.

I mean from from men like that
you know it's the problem.

Insoluble.

And that's why we should care because.

The.

Opportunity that we just have to be able
to think differently about enough to seize

and to experience.

So what is that opportunity what can you
what can I do what can you do about waste.

I mean talk about recycling first.

Look at this trip and

the percentage of recycling in other
countries and look where the U.S. is.

Now it was look at the region you
see the blue slices of the pie.

And I'm filling in the green
slices are recycling so

you know you can see the distribution
of the country isn't doing so

well but you can say thank God for
the Rocky Mountain states you know there.

When I when I conserve
used to say thank God for

Mississippi he thinks it's
kind of the same thing.

Recycling is the greatest solution it's
an important part of the past but it's

you know the better strategy is not to me
make wasteful products in the first place

recycling the way reclaims a part of the
value of the last when you have wished for

products but it's still hanging fruit.

It's hard to get data on treasure because
George isn't actually correct recycling

information anymore but
I did find some kind of members.

Nobody has better ones that are more
up to date these are about five or

six years or send them to me but
you can see.

That very good rate one is doing
better than the state in general but

five point seven percent you know.

You're down there with
Gary in Lithuania so

you know if you if you can country
in your ways policies then you know

you've got you've got to really
cut out for it there was a.

Little sad story.

Rest for.

The universe.

The man comes up to me.

He's really concerned but he says you
know this isn't California and you know

I think he's going to be surprised
by that and he surrendered to No and

this was exact words how can we get
a conversation going about recycling and

worse reduction without sounding like
a bunch of for conscientious hippies.

Because he was afraid he couldn't engage
the people in his community on these

topics and get a good positive response
and I tell you what I've suggested

to you that separate is just an amazing
opportunity when you have cities like

put out again and San Francisco and.

Struggling up there a second
rate from seventy five percent

up I mean we're doing.

Spreading bread just to get that extra two
or three percentage points on top of that

you're stating that five or twelve percent
in Georgia it's a cake he just stared at

the other communities are doing.

Consequential effort to get it up to
twenty percent or thirty percent or more.

Jobs and a new revenue stream in
the process I mean you are perfectly

positioned a university campus is
perfectly positioned to sort of lead

in that field you know you have have
the size and the clout to be a first for

driving through circling and
westward option for

because nobody paid people in the state
are doing it so it's just waiting for

your furry treasure that
could be recaptured.

And as far as.

I told him rep if you really want to.

Resolve that concern down and
talk to the hippies who run the red Mart.

Because there's a company
that does nothing.

That doesn't serve their bottom line and
they have become in waste reduction.

It is kind of a fascinating story where
you don't expect to find it they shrink

packaging they're cutting
their energy they repurpose

in their compost that they say they were.

Little used to have to pay
the way the plastic hangers into

the woods of dog beds you know
they repurpose that material.

It's a big it's a company
right initiative and

you know they don't do that you know
they can feel good about themselves

they do this because it makes them money
because when you make a smaller package

it cost us to ship you could put more on
the truck you can put more on the boat and

you can spend less fuel doing it you
know they didn't believe it at first

it was a river guide to tell me
how to do it this this natural

tree hugging kind of guy the last
person you'd expect remark to hire but.

He so let me do a test case for you and
he got them to shrink the package

on one toy a toy truck.

So them two million dollars in
profits they'd have to say it

was worth of that trip to make two
million dollars with their margins so

you know this this this green stuff this
is stuff this isn't too bad you know

what let's try some more and you know
we're not a sustainable company but

they are a company that is very serious
about waste reduction the landfill by

eighty percent their trash level eighty
percent in five years that's epic and

when a company that size
it's has impact and

if you know that they're there for
a funny company and

so is the reddest of red state companies
but you talk about waste reduction and

they talk about sustainability it
makes it so if an attractive for

a whole segment of the business community
and the population that would otherwise be

really turned off about things
that that sound environmental and.

It's from the business in the seventy's
when I was in business is we're doing

the enemies of the environment
they had to be regulated

that you know that was the equation and.

Now business is sort of leading on
sustainability and waste reduction and

that's a very positive development.

Yeah they cut their ways but
there may be a company running back to.

Does that square down how does
that benefit me directly you know

rejection help my family or my little
business and the answer I think is yes and

you know if the Johnson family.

You know if you for that month been
through too much time on it but this is so

bad Johnson the.

Really really serious about cutting
waste you know buy a disposable Pad apps

like rubber bars and plastic packaging
containers with a bit of a store by

staff because he Craigslist That's waste
like nobody's business stuff that used to

get thrown away is being repurposed and
reused and you know you have this great.

Class and here the kind of does the same
thing that we know about that I just

found it is so cool that you get your
you know your snazzy interview clothes

like a lending library and.

And so you're given multiple
uses to the same problems that

that is the solution to waste or one very
big one the whole sharing economy and

reuse economy is powerful.

For reduction so the upshot is.

Yeah I mean look at that Quest who
has a cupboard like that right.

There was termed as you know they had
this whole checklist of how to avoid

wasteful consumption.

The.

Compost can fit in a mason jar and here.

It's crazy but

because their household budget by forty
percent in the process mostly by not

buying stuff they decided they didn't
really need it after all you know.

The big downsized but
also by not buying packaged and

processed food you know and
what's the benefit of that the set is

having less packaging
you're eating healthy.

Because you're eating fresh stuff and
so the packet so that that.

Story is one of health as well as
environmental good possibly So

things.

That everybody can be
like the Johnsons and it.

That fanatical devotion that they display
but almost any family could do twenty or

thirty maybe more percent of what they do
and get their own share of of the benefits

of those kinds of choices and
I think you know be interested in what.

Has done that adapter go bounty last year

Marymount University to thousands to
liberal arts college in California

who took a very systematic
look at their campus with.

Pipettes materials.

Was.

Their method of trash bags and
students were throwing away six thousand

stairs from clam shelves because you know
college students like to take out food and

that's how they took it from the dining
com And so they decided to get rid of them

and I step off from parts of film isn't
recycled in any meaningful way you know

the end up in the ocean ends up in the
landfill it's just a printer for product.

Also cost money to dispose that number for
a small school they were spending you know

that was some forty thousand a month but
for them it was a big waste bill and

this was a big part of it so they had some
complaints about runs but they're so.

We want you to reusable clamshells for
your take out and

we'll give you the beginning with
a little card from the homes

and we want to for you dollar deposit and

then of course some grumbling but they did
it and most of the students adopt it and

basically take it you have you take it
back to the cafeteria you get a new one

and strange to get credit for
you get your meal rate.

Back if you turn it in so
you know that the Big Bang.

Deposit law for
the buck seems a little steep for

that but it's a definite
incentive to get it back so

no more styrofoam clamshells in
the trash and the banishment.

I love that little thing that
I really love is they had

they had a problem that's me
having the right program.

And then they had this class
where they did a trash audit and

the students had to figure out how race
for they were in their choices and

the way they did it is they had to carry
around a week's worth of trash and

week everywhere they went.

They strap it on their backs they slam
going to reply triple bad some of them and

at the end they had a really into
see who was the most wasteful and

who was the Reese wasteful and

not sure which one had the most bragging
rights you know that I cared too much or

did I was little but they had a blast
doing it and it really hit home

in a very visual and Woody way for
some of them just how trashy they were and

I think I think that I
don't rasping the impact.

And several mood for some.

Twitter feeds.

So.

I'm up a spare time on this talk
about these artist in residence

at the same Francisco dump and
I describe it but

if you read the book and
read the chapter you can see.

That's just shows some of these guys
compete to be honest at the dump in

San Francisco.

Fans stand and group they have to
find everything they're right and

immaterial these are standing firm
chips and group and was good.

My son being.

And.

It was a crap and

she did everything is truly but
she created the cast of the inferno and

did a live performance with these
trash marionettes it was pretty cool.

So.

She was great these are objects she
found and then she recruited them but

after selling with material
she found there and

when she got there at
the dump she was like really.

Concern like I can't use my SO

I CAN USE my scissors I don't have my
friends I don't have all my stuff and.

Said Don't worry this is America
if you need it it will come.

Everything.

Kind of seamstress class so
in case they had everything she needed and

more at the dump and then what
happened right somebody somebody that

grandma died or maybe the grandchildren
but he cared about their stuff and

as often happens just ended up throwing
away somebody's treasure it became trash

and that's where these areas do what they
do they show what the treasure is inside

what we're throwing away like that or
can't forget the junk mail tree.

That's.

So it's worth the junk
mail in the Bay Area.

So that's what they're cost us.

These kinds of things this way for
a sometimes it's.

A depressed working on this book I got
to tell you because sometimes it just so

insurmountable and then just before
I left there's big news in the paper.

That I mentioned and.

Decided that they're going
to take drastic steps.

And.

Flushing.

Into the ocean sewage water
can clean it you know and

of course cause a toilet to tap
just people really upset and

they did nobody like you
know at the tap that's.

The best solution.

To you you know so

we're going to create a system with fresh
billions of people drinking right or.

Just.

Doing it in the first place you know of
engineering challenge bands come up with

after the commercial success
of the desert fresh.

Fish and you're going to be
in Shark Tank in a minute.

There's got to be a better way than this
having their off at the pass that's but

it's the way we think about it
it's OK if we have a race for

it that's a terrible solution.

So we're close with the thing
that doesn't depress me

you know if we want to press you.

Let's enjoy.

A plastic grocery bags this is the bad
monster who helped with the campaign.

He's an inventor of a reusable bag so
they're working for the Chico bag.

But people are angry about this bag and.

Disposable bags in supermarkets
here in Atlanta what

kind of reaction would you
get people would be to.

Their plastic bags but
you get a paper bag if you pay a dime.

And I was I was a trader joe's the day
this kicked in and everybody of course

it forgotten about because it bit past
months before I didn't take effect and

you're out in the parking lot right and
these people are pretty good are so

angry in the Caribbean that
they drove up to kill.

Boxes a spot.

In the park and.

This is for everybody just bad and
this sucks.

What happened there I bet you it wasn't a.

Tax is.

Rising California where
it's not a tax on the bag

on the supermarkets in person
is to recover their costs for

the bags this dime for the paper bags and
they get to keep it pass muster

there was no new tax that had to
be approved by the legislature.

Twelve months to happen
it was not repealed and

the grocery stores report that
there was a seventy five.

Percent reduction in the just count me
in America Los Angeles County of the use

of disposable bags and

I think about that seventy five percent
reduction in a completely wasteful and

unfortunate product you know and
then a few minutes of useful right for

a plastic bag and centuries of waste life.

So I'm optimistic if one.

Can Change the proof of millions of
people you know anything is possible so.

I hope.

You guys need to find your dime or
your version of it and

make some things up and
that's what I tell you what

you.

Never have to take questions.

You have a question just raise your
hand and we'll come by and bring you a

mike.

How this might be a question you addressed
in the book I have to admit I didn't read

it I'm a grad student actually
came because I read Monkey Girl.

Usually when people talk about this issue
of environmental concerns they talk about

it in isolation and they talk about it
in terms of these long term negative

consequences but I feel like that takes it
away separates it from other reasons as to

why people are making this way so
they we have our family structures and

our work culture that's changing and
so making waste is a way of getting

things done faster and quicker and
providing convenience or our perception

of hygiene and running things
stero also disposable things

provide sort of a health benefit and
those benefits provide a moron.

And media it.

They're more immediate and therefore more
salient So how can we talk about these

environmental concerns in a way that
talks about these more concrete immediate

more salient benefits Well I think.

You know I refer back to sort of memoir
it's attitude I mean they get an instant

return on these kinds of alternatives
to ways you know whether it's

waste reduction or waste elimination or
repurposed it's a really bad.

Sort of piercing the marketing and
the happy this idea that disposable things

are more convenient
they're not really I mean.

What's more convenient
about a plastic fork.

Because you know at the washer I mean
that's is that with the fact that

your crew you're using a product
that whatever time and

quantity is actually adding
cost to the things that you buy

you know it's not this
disposable stuff isn't free.

I don't I don't buy the commute
is now the sanitation argument is

this interesting because that's how
Dixie cups were were invented as a half

measure and which is kind of interesting
because people used to have public

drinking fountains but with the couple and
that you know spread disease and

so in that sense a disposable
product was useful but.

You know we're using them in our homes and
in you know the Starbucks here.

You perfectly free to have your own cup.

And every usable one in those situations
is a really convenient to bring it with

you know it's just it is but
it becomes a habit like a.

Wasteful wasteful choice
is a really good bit will.

The bad thing is perfectly
example because these

people are so
opposed to that ban just you know it's.

So inconvenient and
committed to keep the bags in their car

sometimes they forget that they're in
their car and they have to go back out and

get them but mostly you have to do
something ten times it's a habit and

people don't think twice about if you go
to Europe you see people used to have been

using bags like that for
years it's just a.

Convenience argument only lasts as
long as it takes to form the habit and

then it's not in communion anymore.

And when us.

OK so this question sort of twofold but
how does like

socio economic level as you go make
status contribute to trash production and

I suppose it applies on the micro level
in terms of household trash production

as well as on a macro level of like
trash production of developing

countries versus a bad
developed countries.

Well that.

This comparison the waste profile of.

Developing countries is very different
than and you don't have the kind of

consumer packaging waste
quantities that we see here.

And the truth about how the food waste.

Works on that level I know from American
history that are wastefulness has.

Expanded rapidly since the one nine
hundred sixty S. about doubled and

if you look at the waste
profile of Americans in.

The early one nine hundred sixteen
system most entirely of coal ash and

everything the rest of it was
miniscule by comparison so.

We don't have really I haven't seen a lot
of good comparison data for that I could

use to explain the differences
between developing nations trash and

Iran's But
I would love to see it if I could find it.

Interesting aside from my
personal family history my

grandmother was a first generation.

American Her parents
immigrated from Ireland and.

They were pretty poor and

she was raising a child during my
father during the Depression and

they had to leave school and find ways
to make money some got jobs in this

I mean leave high school you know actually
what was junior high school and and

the and then this one's like my
father had to scrounge he called it

you know they would scavengers basically
and they would be going to junk yards and

finding finding stuff that might have
value and and you told me it was

really hard because nobody was throwing
anything away because they were you know

everybody was poor during the Depression
it was it was a very different.

Challenge to the country than the
recession we just went through and and.

I remember thinking about
him telling me that and

I was just I was a little when he told me
that story about going to junkyards and

this thing and seeing the things
that are being thrown out.

In the landfill Well I wrote about in
Karbala gee where people throw away

pianos and furniture and
truckloads of food and

Jacuzzis because he made
his last year's model.

I just as family would have
gone in there and said Jack.

We could take care of the family for
for a month and I got to think that

countries that are living
at that in those kinds of.

Economic experience difficult Pulte can't
possibly waste in the ways that we do but

maybe they aspire to because it's a sign
of you know making it you know we can be

you know be consumers to China
is going through a real.

Growth of of the consumer culture now
you know you don't don't want to just

make their smartphones they
want our smartphones and

they not have the money to do it so.

I think when we get to that
nine billion and we have

that point of our population that's and
the rise of consumer culture and

what are now developing countries we're
going to have a much different and

far more serious waste issue to deal with
and so now is a good time for the U.S.

to lead instead a trail and
finding solutions for.

The care.

I'm sure we have what.

We think about.

Ideas where.

People see people produce products
should take their products back

at the end of the producer responsibility
or stewardship some time and

yeah I well I think that's what
I'm kind of getting at with the.

Well.

Argument that manufacturers
should take responsibility for

their products throughout
their life cycle and you know.

Rather than have the rest of the.

You know take care of the wasteful aspects
of their their products they should take

them back or should take responsibility
unless the engineer them to be you know

not a waste issue which
is part of the argument

that if we had a producer
responsibility system.

Parts would become part of
responsible they would need to

be an added cost at the end of their
life you know then they're McDonagh

good guys her book on Cradle to
Cradle is sort of the idea of.

Developing products that never

have to have an end of life cycle
that they're either reusable or can

be repurposed you closing the loop is the
big you know sort of cliche now almost But

that exactly addresses the idea that
you're expressing and you know there are.

This is that are experimenting with
this their business is their experiments

the Patagonia company says when you're
done with their product send it back to us

and we'll do something else with it
not too many businesses are saying but

it's it's a very cool idea so.

Interface Well they make an amazing
product so that they can be repurposed and

not all carpeting can.

So my my question would be in all
your time spent researching and

talking about this topic is there
anyone I guess numbers statistics or

anything that you found has the most
impact on people when you say it and

then second kind of question would be
if there's one thing that you would

I guess impart on all of us
are employees to do once we view

tonight what would that
be when you're very.

I would say read my book.

First part number.

Different people have
different reactions I think.

I mean so it's a number but
the topic one issue in my book that seems

to resonate most with a lot of
people particularly people how much

is the ocean plastic pollution piece of
it that just scares people that we're.

Affecting so
alone I mainly that the ocean habitats and

the food sources that we depend on
as well as other species depend

on celebrities distracts people crazy but
the National Right to do about it so

you know what's the one thing that
an individual could do is really to stop

using their most wasteful
products which are you know well

I mean as you may know plastic read
about I mean if this is the stupidest

most wasteful product on the planet I
mean it's so much more expensive to do.

Water this way then getting it out of
the tap water tap you know you're paying

more for this bottom of the rudder
inside it than you do for gasoline.

Browne's It's not easy.

But it's a triumph of marketing and

we think it's more convenient to have this
but I've seen a lot of people here with

reusable bottles I with mine
on the plane by the way.

And I commend you for that.

So when can we meet for you to use that.

So.

You in the habit of using and then.

I would look for these kinds of things
in their house and say no to them.

And make them money you
better are extra traveling to

at first to develop the habit
of you doing the alternative but

then once you do that you're going
to start looking for the next thing.

Because you're going to have to look
through you know the wastelands.

And that's good that's what I would say So
start small and then keep going.

Run my question.

Thank you the stories are very
compelling when I wonder if you could

go into a bit more detail on how much of
the benefits that they've seen or from

just changing the internal process season
how they manage their own waste that

they're generating versus the possibility
of putting pressure on the vendors who

are supplying and packaging the products
they sell are they pushing those vendors

to make you know well a box that actually
fits the protein bar rather than have to

get as big as the protein bar that could
look bigger so they're doing that as well.

I don't know if you guys have noticed but
there's been an evolution

of laundry detergent bottles.

And tried to get the big one but to be
getting smaller and more concentrated

the big one psychologically looks
like hey I'm getting more and

more clean in that bottle and then even
the bad it is more plastic on the I.

Suydam are right on the inside they just
the same stuff and you don't get any extra

clean out of the bigger coin you have to
use more of it each time you wash and

years and years ago Procter and
Gamble tried to.

Go with smaller but this is back in
the ninety's smaller bottles and

nobody would buy them because they didn't
see the value they wanted the big one and

even though they couldn't get
any more russian out of it and.

The small ones have.

Beings on shipping and.

Millions and millions of dollars if you
could we could have the small bottles and

perhaps you know there's no it
won't sell and then I said we sat

right out of three bottles
of detergent in the country.

And so they put the bottoms on the most
prominent locations in their stores the.

Bottom shelf and so they are hard to pick
up I mean if the play dirty in the way

that they persuade people to
buy the smaller ones and.

That psychological advantage of the jumbo
size detergent is going did that for

a very peculiar reasons but
or so you know it has a.

It's a trip about a month less rather less
plastic less fuel less energy less shelf

space to get on the shelf it's a win win
win win it's a quadruple bottom line so.

You have one hundred thousand
suppliers they want to or

be on this waste reduction bandwagon.

And they've got other companies
competitors thinking the same way

because they sort of raise the trail
they're weird green driven trailblazer

the unexpected ways.

Well thank you.