The fall of the end of the working
group on race and racism and

contemporary biomedicine which were kind
of shortening to race biomed dot org

to make it easier for
you guys to follow up and

find out what we're up to we are an
interdisciplinary group of scholars across

biomedical engineering biological sciences
the liberal arts social sciences and

trying to work together on
issues about how race and

racism impact our health impact
by medical research we received

our start up funding from the Georgia
Tech Provost a couple of years ago and

now we're fortunate to have ongoing
support from the College of Liberal Arts

here at Georgia Tech as well as the
college of Sciences coming together but

our group actually incorporates far beyond
that so we have a folks that were involved

from Emory from Spelman from
Agnes Scott and elsewhere and

so if these are issues that you would
like to continue to talk about in a more

research focused way please look at our
Web site raised by my dot org and get

in touch to find out how you can get more
involved so my name is AM public I don't

think I said I'm in literature media and
communication here at Georgia Tech but

now I will pass it on to my
capable kopi I am moderator.

All right thank you very much and thank
you all for coming out in the hope of

a great event I'm going to step out the
way quickly so the way this will happen is

that we have first our three invited
speakers for a brief period so

you can understand the perspective with
which they are approaching this issue and

then after that will come together and
have a moderated discussion with Q.

and A from the audience and
among the panelists All right so

our first speaker is Dr Evelyn Patterson
who comes to us from Vanderbilt University

we met about a year ago when we all
went to Vanderbilt for a wonderful.

Symposium on U.S. health in the south but
turned over to Evelyn.

Thank.

You.

Wireless Keyboard.

Still fancy.

I'm just kidding I'm not really here and
so

I represent the nerd of the group

I actually prepare some
powerpoint presentation and

hopefully you'll get
something out of that for

the most part my work is situated in
looking at correctional populations and

so by that I mean populations under
the supervision of the criminal

justice system so parole populations
populations on probation

people who are actually incarcerated
whether it be in jail or prison.

And also looking at the actual impact
of people who are being imprisoned or

whatever under that supervision and how
it cascades across those individuals and

families and communities and
so today I'm focusing on for

meal incarceration by familial
incarceration I mean that you have

an immediate family member
who is incarcerated or it so

move on and
tell you a little bit of background

about other studies that have looked at a
million course aeration for the most part

the bulk of the work has been done with
the status called the fragile families and

so by definition you have to have
a fragile family which is defined as

having a child basically
out of wedlock and

so fragile family there
we go that's nice for it.

But there are some limitations
with thinking about it that way or

at least studying only people who
constitute how you define a fragile family

first of all families
are different shapes and sizes so

we could be thinking about just the
nuclear family or your immediate family or

we could be thinking about extended
family but think about household.

Where maybe you have a grandparent that
lives in the household or an uncle or

not that is not considered
at all right but

going back to this in terms of so you sort
of look at the fragile families it means

that they're only looking at women who
have children who also are not married but

certainly there are other types of people
who experience from Moon Carse aeration

right I'm sure there are people who might
have siblings incarcerated or who might

have a father incarcerated and so that's
one of the big limitations of prior work.

The work that I'm doing right now uses
a data set called The national survey

of American life and
it is great because well for

one we are not just looking
at fragile families and

to well I'm using it and so
I just makes a great OK.

So one of the other things that I
sort of want to bring to the table

is that well for one when we think
about incarceration in general

images come to our mind right or
if we think about crime anything like that

certainly there are just images
that pop up right away so

if I say OK there's somebody who just
committed a crime what comes to mind.

As a shot some I'm really informal.

Robbery OK so somebody commit
a robbery what do they look like

they're male All right sounds
good to me or anything else

early twenty's that sounds good
to our right early twenty's male.

The else.

Who what army.

Aren't OK that makes us
we armed make sense or

you can have really like big arms.

Race ethnicity thing like that.

Dark MALE All right dark male art so
we're looking for

dark mellow mid twenty's who
has big arms and his arm.

Right.

So we have these sort of
stereotypes that have gone on for

many many many centuries in terms of the
kernel ization of certain groups of people

to the degree that we in some ways so

consciously and doesn't matter what color
you are or what gender you are you cetera

somehow connect race and crime or race and

criminalization or race and
hey you know what that dark man

who is twenty years old Yep definitely
going to commit a crime definitely And

unfortunately that is what we think
that is what is embedded in our society.

So.

That's just a little background stuff but
I want to sort of focus on

bringing to bear a different
group of people all right so

you guys at Melle I'm going
to say lists look at women

let's look at men OK Now there's
a typically male female man and woman but

it's really not that important here but
what my big point is

is that there are certain roles that
people get are come into over the course

of their lives such as being a parent or
being in some type of relationship or it.

And by relationship I'm talking about
a type of romantic relationship and

those roles actually
influence how one experiences

a family member being incarcerated
you know if you were to guess.

How would you feel if one of your
family members was incarcerated.

For your family member
say your best buddy.

Is incarcerated What's the first
emotion that comes to mind

your best friend scared.

All right why are you scared what's
going to happen right safety

OK So now imagine then but
have younger siblings.

OK Anybody have older siblings I do to.

All right.

So imagine one of your siblings one
closest to you in age being incarcerated

and you get a phone call from jail and
they say they've incarcerated and

without Bill how do you feel angry.

You know emotions embarrassed Yeah.

Frustrated shocked ashamed.

Guilty The ELSE I'M JUST name is on my
emotions too so I can be a participant.

Abuse All right.

So when for me incarceration happens
people experience a variety of emotions

and what we know is that we expect them
to actually be detrimental to the person

however there are some studies
that have actually found that for

me the incarceration isn't quite
as detrimental for some groups but

again most of this has been
done in relationship to

how does it affect someone's
child how does it affect.

The mother left behind and
we don't really get a nice intersection

of roles and status and so
in this particular study.

Thinking about this from a sort
of a historical point of view

of the black family OK.

If we think about black
families in America and

really what I mean are African-American
families what you have is a family

structure that still actually is a bit
on the more extended in versus your

sort of nuclear family structure but
what you also have is a history where

people have been removed consistently
from the household through informal and

formal social control methods or
it so what I mean by

formal informal social control formal
social control are things like the police.

Legislation there are formal ways in which
we actually control the movements of

people and then there are informal ways
to say like a neighborhood watch or.

Anger.

Really.

Just Getting Started All right so
we're going to move on you must give a few

things but you're just going to skip
some things That's what have you.

So academically talk a little bit
more a little too much art but

first I want to just talk about
this idea of social control and

how much it actually shows up in
the lives of African-Americans so

if you look at the furthest left
going down you'll see these

different Actually things are social
control so please contact prior to

adulthood All right can you imagine being
arrested at the age of eleven or five.

I can't but it happens reform school or
juvenile detention that's sort of

a nice way of saying that you're actually
imprisoned but we're going to call

a juvenile detention if you've ever been
arrested incarcerated jail or prison and

this is all among African-Americans of
some representative sample of the U.S.

population around
the year two thousand and

three familiar incarceration so
immediate family member and then

I look at any contact a form of social
control and number of events experience or

it so if we break this down by gender or
the whole population.

I want you to notice something just
look at the ever arrested column and

you'll see that among African-Americans.

Over half of all African-American
men have been arrested and

about over a fifth of
African-American women and

it looks like almost a quarter of
African-American men have been

incarcerated and a little less than
ten percent if we restrict it to just

people who have some experience a form of
social control you see something slightly

different the numbers go up because I'm
restricting the population Nevertheless

if it was only due to something by
proxy such as one might say familial

incarceration we would expect
the numbers not to be quite so

high with ever arrested but
people are experiencing

a multitude of events in terms
of interacting with formal so.

Control but
my point today is really more math skip

this you know those are cool pictures I
pick them out I did I write notes come in

Georgia Tech got to be technological
right savvy All right so

very told you sort about this dataset and
there are.

A few different ways in which social
scientists look at health sometimes well

there's more than a few but one is just
through social determinants of health and

that's when we think about things such as
age we know that people are older there's

a higher likelihood of death education
more educated you are typically the more.

Things you have in your tool
kit to help you navigate

actually getting good
health care except for

a plum It always helps get a job after
you graduate suffer port health and

then there's another model called the
stress process model which basically says.

To be really quick.

That these three things chronic stress
mastery which means do you feel that you

actually have power control over what
you're doing and an ability to affect.

I guess what happens to you and
familial emotional support so

hopefully your family is helpful but
if everything is going fine and

well and someone is incarcerated in your
family then with the stress process model

we would expect that there would be no
extra effect due to form of incarceration

right and so you're going to see
some models and very quickly but.

The stress process model which will
be the second one is the one where

we would expect for any sort of effect do
to famille incarceration to go away all

right so at the top we have women that's
noted by that square with the Warman

sort of kind of and then men you see it
doesn't matter if you're black or white.

OK although right now I'm talking
about African-Americans and so

here are these sort of intersections
of roll right so you have women and

there's a little word on her and
there was every word I wonder though if.

You read them first so for
people who are not well we're not hearing

what I read from more
people who were turned

into this like life stress right so
general psychological distress.

You know what they're like prices.

So.

For women who are here it doesn't
go that far Boy you're the one one.

Zero So let me just say that
person ration really really

stressed poor women who are single and
also parents which

is what basically has been shown by prior
literature what it has not shown though

is that men who are not here
have their hearts really.

Close yet they actually during this
whole question that you play but.

Yet men who are parents
there's only a margin of.

Why she was here is to get her so.

Right I said this goes one very.

Good Friend This would be for the women.

And for us.

What we're looking at here
are in all that we want.

To hear this army officer.

Well of course so why is this happening I
don't know still trying to figure it out.

And about how many minutes I got.

Now you try to tell me what started it
we can do the rest from the camera.

All right so.

The.

Last.

Thing.

I want to love people who are merely.

Yeah.

That.

Was that very actually.

The real reason being.

That.

There's free.

Will.

Like this.

Where we're.

Very.

Rough.

Rough rough and
then it goes down for a while.

Yet.

We are very.

Real Yes.

But they are definitely distressed.

So.

Basically the whole point of this project
was to sort of say you know what the story

of incarceration it doesn't end with
African-American men and you know what.

Varies across the social roles
that we typically take on.

Things such as who are.

You're a man all the romantic
relationship all this and more.

Well you see that side so.

Finally.

The biggest point is that the health.

If you're walking with roll back the.

Forces actually on the other side.

And possible first think about.

How awful things about
our region socialist.

Regime.

Right.

About.

This whole that.

Not just good Americans but
people who somehow cross the path

of formal social control and never get
back out because once you go in it's.

Sort of like the mafia except I don't

know anything about the mafia
I can tell you about the.

What is it the Godfather story so
we think about the Godfather.

Which isn't real naturally but
once you're in you can't you know.

Thank you and

I'm next because from Morehouse School
of Medicine Dr Starling Harrison blanks.

Right.

Yeah they let me put this down
here I do not have slides.

Primarily because I spend a great deal
of my time working with Forestier M.D.

students and what I found is that
it's important to know what you like.

OK And what I found is sometimes
when I show you many pictures

that Indian students tend to
get distracted very easily.

Or in a medical students bioengineering
OK Here my people public health people.

Guess what if you're in this room you're
a public health person because everything

you do touches.

But health is a wonderful Amberleigh So
as was said My name is Starling Harrison

blanks and I'm at Morehouse School
of Medicine where I get to spend

my days doing research on my primary
population our research is traditionally

focuses on help thinking behavior and
African-American boys and men of color and

what does that mean that means how do we
put places people systems and resources

in front of someone at the moment when
they realize that they need help and

in doing the work of boys and men of color
that means unfortunately has been a great

deal of my time doing research around
of course aeration mass incarceration

the Empacher the doctor just said before
me on families and structures and

communities because it's important to
understand that's not over incarcerations

of a population not only zaps
the resources of those individuals who

find themselves inside of a correctional
facility but also zaps the resources and

their ability to contribute to communities
as a whole so as you think of graduation

and what you're going to do next if you
want to be a person who is an employer

guess what incarceration directly
intersects with employment

if you want to be a person who's a health
care provider incarceration directly

them packed in by all of the social
determinants of health so we see these

threads throughout medicine throughout
public health throughout industry and

which incarceration negatively impacts
these outcomes so I'm going to talk about

money for a minute as I drove down here up
I twenty I was looking at all the potholes

in the roads and all of the different
things that had to navigate to get here at

least your campus has like parking
even it was very fancy coming from my

parking deck How does she think
we spend on transportation inside

the state of Georgia each
year though I don't number.

One hundred billion now that's
how much we need to spend.

We can guess.

Two hundred million actually
it's right around nine for

the whole state nine billion
dollars in the whole state

Guess how much we spend on incarceration
inside the state of Georgia

hundred billion that's probably
the next goal actually we spend one

point seven billion dollars within
the state of Georgia on incarceration and

I'm not even talking about juvenile
incarceration I'm also not talking about

your county your cities none of that
this is the state of Georgia so

every time I run over a pot hole I'm
thinking this pot hole could be field if

they just incarcerated less people so you
see how those things go when i guess which

state agency inside of Georgia has the
most Employees Health and Human Services.

It's the Department of Corrections and

guess what they have twice as many
employees as any other state agency Now

why is that that's because Georgia has the
fourth largest incarceration population

with in the United States of America
which is very important when you think of

the size of our state compared to the top
three which is California New York and

Texas Georgia is no where near them and
size but

we are here then when it comes into the
number of people that we incarcerate and

who are these people within our prison
walls they are to predominantly going to

be African-American they're going to
pajama be male and they're going to

predominantly have committed their first
offense around the age of gets what.

Fifteen.

Remember what you were
doing at fifteen probably

dreaming of being a not a Tory I'm
a Georgia Tech some day.

I know me I was really really and

to you know I'm not going to
tell you going to date me but

I was going to say that was flat bracelets
involved I would there were jelly shoes

there were all these things I was thinking
about it that made the separate lives of.

Some you know way too young for that well
let's just say there wasn't a Facebook

then but the thing is and since you didn't
think of the things you were dealing with

with your life think of all of how
much you've drawn between fifteen and

now and looking at your faces some
of you were really really young so

this wasn't too long ago Think of
how much you've grown now imagine

if the last seven to eight years of
your life you had spent incarcerated

inside of the state of Georgia what
different of a person would you be now.

And when you get out on your twenty first
twenty second or twenty fourth birthday

what would you do next you served
your time right you're done no.

Inside of the United States one of the few
countries when we mass incarcerate people

they serve their sentence and
when they leave they are punished again.

How are they punished
when you go apply for

a job what do they ask you Have
you ever committed a felony.

How are you punished when you're going
to get an apartment or your family.

Can Stay here are you a felon
you can't work here but

we still expect people who
are released from incarceration to be

able to pick themselves up by their
bootstraps find a job find a place to

live find a healthy nutritious foods
to eat exercise sixty minutes a day and

do everything like everyone else is doing
without the social system structures and

infrastructure in order to support them
as they begin making this transition.

That's something that we need to address
as professionals we need to address

to our systems our communities and
our neighborhoods and let's talk about

one of my pet peeves how many of you
heard about the prison the school.

Through the pipeline you've heard
that phrase I hate that phrase

because the pipeline is a pipe
there's no way out I don't know I'm

not a engineering major but I'm pretty
sure they're solid as separately and.

Which means you go in on one hand and
that's it you're done I like to think of

incarceration specifically when we think
in terms of juveniles as an expressway

because there are exits off the expressway
that you can get all club and let's think

about those exits for a moment the first
exit off the prison to school the school

to prison pipeline expressway if you want
to think about it that way it's criminal

justice reform this is something a lot of
states are starting to think of lately

because they've noticed that I'm spending
ninety eight thousand dollars a year on

average to incarcerate one juvenile
offender how much is to wish in here.

Well less ninety thousand.

It is cheaper to send you to
Georgia Tech than it is to

incarcerate you for one year.

What are our priorities so maybe a set of
incarcerating you because once what they

are incarcerated around the age of fifteen
we know we've set them on a trajectory

where there are three times more likely to
be incarcerated as an adult if they have

a parent that's also been incarcerated
they are five times more likely

to be incarcerated as an adult so when you
put all of those factors together those

social determinants together those
multiple structure stressors together and

you place them in one of those familial
support systems which he was just

what happens you have
an overrepresentation are brown and

black people inside of
the criminal justice system.

Criminal justice reform can absolutely
address that not only through equal and

fair sentencing but
also looking at diversionary program so

many of us have broken the law but never
ended up in jail for it every time you

have went down seventy five eighty five
and you've been doing eighty instead of

sixty guess what you have broken the law
and if you got pulled over and you showed

that student badge in the year now you did
that right well I did it in undergrad.

Had all kinds of things that way showed a
material showed my student badge and they

were like you're a young lady who's doing
good things we're going to let you go.

What would happen at the start
of the set up and Starla.

I was Stan.

What would happen if I was
a nineteen year old African-American

male going twenty miles over
the speed limit down seventy five.

On a Saturday night maybe I get a ticket.

Or maybe I get taken into
jail now gotta play bail but

I'm a pro college student I
have no money so guess what

now I have a weekend with in prison and
we can in jail with real criminal.

And then on this pathway one now Mon and

cars incarcerated I mean with the system
I'm on probation until I can pay my

fine back I'm now one of those people who
are under correctional supervision within

the state so when we think of equitable
treatment we have to think about

changes that can be made to the policy
lands the criminal justice reform and

I know I don't have time to go
through all the expressway exits but

I want to tell you about what I
think is very important employment.

If people are going to exist
they have to be able to.

That's the basic need and we have a saying
I've been working with some agencies here

doing research around returning citizens
and I call them returning citizens not X.

cons are Fallon's because guess
what three fourths who go in

are going to come back out so we think
about who is inside of prison systems

we need to start thinking about
the NOMIC later they're not.

They're not just convicted felons these
are returning citizens they are neighbors

they are fathers they are mothers they're
sisters or brothers they are people within

our neighborhoods fabric who are going
to be returning back to us so

when they come back to us and
I want to find employment that box on

the application is the number one thing we
could drop to help them get a fair chance

it doesn't mean employers cannot provide
a background check but it does mean that

they can look at them for who they are
their qualifications their expertise and

find out is this person going to
show up on time do the job I'm

asking them to do for a fair wage and go
home and in the day representing me well.

Does the fact that they
committed a felony and

nine hundred seventy eight mean that
they should not be able to work for you.

Especially if they said it's their star
their sentence they finish their time

unfortunately that's what we think
today and the third thing I want

to talk about is at the top of the prison
Expressway is absolutely education.

We see so
many linkages that we are working on right

now to increase literacy
in the fourth grade.

You don't mind working in fourth
grade as I was never meant to be

an elementary school person I thought but
I was speaking to a group of fathers in

Mississippi who had spent at least three
years within a correctional facility and

we were talking them about what do you
think you need when you get out and

they said well I wish someone would I came
in the prison when I was in there and

talk to me about how hard it was going to
be when I got out because they thought

they would get out and go knock on
every door and find a job or I said

I wish someone would talk to me about my
family and how my family has went on and

grown without me because I'd left
a very happy three year old and

I came back to a very angry eight or
nine year old.

I wish they could have talked to me about
that and one man stood up and he said I am

fifty eight years old you know what I wish
someone would do for me he said go back in

time and talk to me when I was seventeen
when I got arrested for the first time.

So we ended up going over and doing
a research project with juvenile offenders

who were at Carver High School who's
over in the west end of Atlanta area and

we were talking to them thinking we're
going to catch them they're seventeen

we're right at the age when we could time
to make sure they graduate on time half

of the boys referred to us by the guidance
counselor already had a probation officer

that were in high school what should
we do next so they said Well honestly.

You should have gotten me when
I was in middle school so

before you know a long story short we
ended up looking at literacy level and

fourth grade students here inside of
metropolitan Atlanta Atlanta public

schools because what we were
able to talk determine when

boys who are unable to read a grade
level and the fourth grade.

Fourth grade because how young you are
fourth grade when they're unable to read

at grade level that's when we start seeing
an increase and disciplinary infractions

they stop paying attention stop
coming to school on time and

then that translate into middle school
will then they have a new peer group

in which they must become the cool
kid with and learning and

being in class I'm sure most of us all get
called nerdy for want to pay attention in

class at some point but you're already
behind Let's be the class clown so

the next thing you know you're getting
into it you're getting an argument and

do you know what happens inside of Atlanta
public schools when you get in a fight on

school property who knows what happens.

Get suspended that would be wonderful
now they call the police on you because

they have police officers and
father the public school in Atlanta so

that's how you end up in
my research having more

black youth than I can even take into
my study who are fourteen years old

who has spent at least twenty days
incarcerated inside the state of Georgia.

So I ask you as you go forward to start
thinking about what you want to do next

and think about the intersections
of race and mass incarceration and

how it impacts what you do remember
that this is a very long Expressway but

there are exits off of it so think about
what access you can create in your daily

lives and your life as a student in your
life as a young professional in your life

as a researcher the can perhaps provide an
opportunity for some of our returning to.

Thank you thank you very much for the
mother perspective and then our closing or

our posing for the introductions you
actually have a social activist so

she there Vera from racial justice for

their close close Soma Hey
good afternoon everybody so

my name is actually sold for
Vera but that's OK and

I am with the Racial Justice Action Center
and I'm a community organizer and we have

to grassroots projects one is called the
solutions not punishment collaborative or

snap Co and
one is called Women on the rise and

I'm really glad to be here to talk about
this when I got invited I think part of my

job is to really present a different
perspective from Community Organizing from

grassroots groups who are on the ground
with folks who are being impacted by

mass incarceration really criminalization
and I'd love to just offer I think if we

if you only talk about mass incarceration
you're talking about one piece and

you're talking about the prison system but
a lot of what was just being discussed and

that's really important
of people's lives is.

This is criminalisation right it's
the whole the network from policing to

probation to the culture of
punishment to the in ground

racism to prisons to jails and
then all the private companies that

serve those institutions so really I
think it's important for us to look at

criminalization when we're talking about
its impact on health disparities and

on the disparate like basically just
racial justice in this country.

So just to give you a little bit the
Racial Justice Action Center an organizing

and training center we're building
leaders we're building power and

the goal is to make social economic and
political change in Atlanta and

in Georgia so
I hope no one saw me I was being rude and

texting a little bit while folks were
speaking and that is because our

organization has been championing I don't
know if anyone's heard of there's a push

in the city of Atlanta to decriminalize
marijuana to reclassify and you cannot be

arrested for possession of under an ounce
have folks heard about Excel and

yet so that's actually happening right
now and I left there to come here and

as usual the city council members
are engaged in many shenanigans so

you have to stay very close on them
to figure out what's going to happen.

So that's you know part of what we do
is we engage with the institutions

that affect our lives we push to
change policy and we're looking at

in particular criminalization we also
look at how to work across communities so

we're very interested in how Latinos and
black folks are working together how

immigrant communities and domestic border
communities are working together how

trans unclear and system works are working
together but because if we do not start to

build a unified front around many of the
issues that are impacting our communities

we are going to continue to be sliding
down the road that we've been on right now

where we see a decrease racial
justice increasing criminalization.

And all of the kind of health
disparities at that these two.

I wanted to just say

one piece that I think is important
going from I like this expressway.

Paradigm metaphor but
I think it's really important for

us to understand the history of the
criminal justice system because you can

get to this place where you're talking
about and policy right now where you're

looking at it like like it's a system
like your education system or

like our health care system and
it serves a function and

what's the sort of the function of
the criminal justice I'm supposed to being

safety right that's that is what is
articulated and that is what is used over

and over again to expand the reach of
the criminal justice system I think

it's really important say right now we
live in a moment and those numbers are so

important because we live in a moment
where the criminal justice in is actually

the largest domestic institution of our
nation right it is larger than public

health it is larger than our health
industry or education institutions and

in some ways I just want invite you
to think about what that means for

the culture of this country that we live
in right within when people start talking

about moving toward police state
right when people try to say well

it's no big deal when when
our entire rhetoric and

where the dollars go are to
lock people in cages and

to control people that has an impact
on all of us right that has an impact

on the culture of the world that we live
and that I think we should be really.

Vigilant about and then hopefully and

part of my job here is to say
engaged in trying to change.

The so the history have people
watch the movie thirteen or

read The New Jim Crow and.

OK we need to get the new Jim Crow.

But but the popularisation of some of
these movies and this book have been

really incredibly helpful for us to just
normalize the conversation that it's not

an extreme thing to say that our criminal
justice system literally literally is born

was born in the moment that slavery was
abolished by the thirteenth Amendment

abolishes slavery except for
in the cases where somebody has been and

has had due process and has tried right
this is the idea that excess slavery is

abolished except in the criminal justice
system in the very same breath right and

why was this why the idea of slavery

the institution of slavery the need
to control socially economically and

politically black bodies
that was what the states.

It's not going to let go of even after
a slavery was abolished and the criminal

justice system has been serving that
purpose ever since it started off with

convict leasing I don't know if people
heard of that where literally a private

company could you would be arrested
because you were standing on a corner and

then you would be brought brought into
jail in a private company could bid on you

to come work for them to do something
like you know build the railroads after

the Civil War in the South when they
needed infrastructure desperately right

there was convict leasing there were
road crews right all of these evolutions

that took place every fifty sixty years
into what we call mass incarceration right

now the mass incarceration we know right
now is not actually doesn't go back to

the beginning it's only that we've only
locked this many people up with this many

people in cages since the sixty's
seventy's right incredibly clear

backlash from actually the black freedom
movement the civil rights movement.

So when you understand from that's
very inception it was designed for

social control this myth of
whether it keeps us safe or

not has just been allowed to proliferate
but actually everybody says over and

over again there is nothing about it
that creates safety right there is.

There is a a woman who talks
about the factors of violence and

what contributes to it and
it's isolation shame the inability

to take care of your family or loved ones
financially and exposure of violence

the four absolutely critical cornerstones
of what happens to a person in prison

are isolation shame be in
a billion take care of yourself or

your loved ones financially and
exposure to violence so

we actually as a as a movement and
people who are interested in anti violence

as a health issue as a public
health issue must be interested in

in ending mass criminalization
incarceration we are actually purpose.

Weighting violence and harm through
a system that knows very little other

than punishment and shame and isolation
right for those of us who have lived

through harm for those of us who say well
then what would happen right what should

happen to people who commit who commit
acts against other whose create harm and

I think the question becomes when we've
only been given this paradigm you know

that thing is a if you're a hammer then
everything was like a nail right it's like

we have to actually be able to expand
our mind outside of the criminal justice

system to be able to envision a response
to harm that actually centered

the person who is harmed so how many times
now do you have when somebody is actually

harmed all of the focus is on who did it
and what punishment they are going to get

that person who is harmed is often
left alone unsupported right

it's not a system that's oriented
actually towards protection or

support of folks in our communities
who are surviving harm.

So I think that you know sort of blowing
open this myth is is really very important

and understanding the very
specific history and that is

because in all of our lives constantly
there are things there are new laws and

new policies that are going
to get proposed and

they're going to always ask for
your vote and they're going to be elected

officials who are campaigning on
those slogans on the tough on crime

I want to reduce violence we're going to
do zero tolerance to gun violence right

they all sound really good or nifty or
interesting at least right and

yet they all repeat the same thing
any time you see a policy or

person campaigning on harsher harsher
penalties longer sentences more money for

jails more money for police that's what
I want to urge that's what happens and

that's what we as individuals as a
grassroots oppose a community of students

as professors need to stop need to start
saying no we're not going to vote for that

we're not going to support that anymore
in fact we're going to we're going to.

We organize against it so in our
organizing right now we had about a room

full close to this number of
people in our city hall packed to

say to the Atlanta Police Department into
the city council who have been opposed to

this for a long time that we no longer
want to see people arrested for possession

of marijuana under in particular when we
know we live in a city that's fifty three

percent black and everyone knows that all
races use marijuana at the same rate and

so an equitable rate of a arrest would be
fifty three percent of the arrests for

marijuana would be of black
folks in the city of Atlanta

ninety three percent of the arrests for
the possession of marijuana are black

that's an extreme disparity for
which there is no explanation other than

racially biased policing in Atlanta right
where people want to at least look and

say where we have black elected officials
the mayor our police department right but

that's how entrenched and
I appreciated that discussion from earlier

that's how entrenched the biases that's
how entrenched the internalized and

externalized racism is right we have
created a culture where people and

in particular police officers whose
job is actually to keep us safe

are really out kind of looking for
who's the criminal.

So I think I'll end it there just because
I know we'll get to have lots more

discussion but I just want to say
I hope that there are questions or

curiosities it's my job any time I'm in
a room because we're a membership based

organizations that were always
asking people to join and

be a part of the movement to transform the
criminal justice system in the land and

mostly what we specifically say to divest
the resources out of our criminal justice

some sort of close our city jail to reduce
our police force right and to put that

money our jail costs thirty two million
dollars a year just to city jail so

all those billions of dollars were time
on the state level let's just go to

Atlanta Atlanta and thirty two million
dollars a year on a city jail that.

I don't know folks you know but we have
a county jail that holds misdemeanor and

felonies folks who are charged with
misdemeanors and felonies our city jail

holds people on traffic offenses and city
ordinance violations think spitting on

the sidewalk think jaywalking four hundred
people sit in there every day right and

thirty two million dollars a year goes to
locking those people up Imagine if we put

that thirty two million dollars towards
our education system towards housing for

people in this city right the things we
could do and I really believe even though

the big numbers are overwhelming to
me here in Atlanta we can do that

we can do that we can close our city jail
and grab that thirty two million and

have a different situation in many of
our communities so I just want to and

recruit and invite all of the folks
here to get involved on that level.

To do that work thank you.

Thank you OK So
think about questions while we reorganize

up here all right so OK so
a lot of just moderated discussion and

because of that I get to take moderator's
license with opening with a question for

Dr Patterson because she talked about
the new the new iteration of her work

on the familial role of incarceration but
she also again this is a group that

we talk about health that and a race as a
medicine but I was first really intrigued

with the word because she actually
has these She actually the details

quite quantitative which is a quantitative
sociologist that I discovered appreciate

but if you could really talk about some of
the things that you discussed really about

the effects of incarceration on
reducing life expectancy but

I think that was some of
the shocking work that I first.

Saw of yours that you can explain that to
the to the communities they were not aware

sure so

at some time ago I started
well actually so I dish

least started looking at incarceration
because I wanted to bring some context to

the idea of what it means to actually
be incarcerated part of that as the.

Lager from it looking at
Age Pacific death rates.

And so I looked at the ages of death rates
of people who are actually harsher it

specifically in state
correctional facilities and

I notice that it conform to the J.

shaped curve for
the gum parts curve that we're

used to seeing we look at
mortality in populations.

And so it's a close sort of crazy I don't
know about this and I took a step back.

But it was it was just it was
a very fascinating finding and

I moved on to want you to look at not
just the incarcerated population but

population to see how my
incarceration actually

influence life expectancy after
your release from prison.

And so I learned that for

every year one spends in prison they
lose two years of life expectancy.

Now this is alarming and
it was alarming to me alarming so

much that I sort of let that thing go for
a bit and

then I went back to and I said OK let me
take all the data and stuff whatever.

But it was right.

And I had the privilege of actually
looking at well you know what it is.

I was in a courtroom I wasn't on trial but
I was in the courtroom for it and

it turns out that in the state of Michigan
at least any juvenile who has been

sentenced to life without parole they
don't make it past forty years in prison

they die so that means that they are not
making it to the age of deathly not sixty.

Probably somewhere less than
sixty three they don't make it

because there's something very toxic about
being in they have to take their space but

not just being in that space but
even afterwards such that

the United States pellet court
decided that Senate saying somebody.

To life without parole is actually harsh
an unusual punishment specially for

juveniles and they ruled against it
in the set only in the recent cases

but just sticking in regular cases
when people have been sentenced

to such long terms actually my work has
been used to show that this is cruel and

unusual punishment because really
they're going to die when they get out.

OK so that's a sobering thought I look for

questions from the audience
she's going to one of the.

Stories.

You.

Might.

Have would like to tackle that
some of the research that rigidly

disagreed the question for a very good
question the centrally of around it and

the intersection between mental health in
a harsher ration and how that leads to

be fitted as a more additional arrests and
also the treatment of individuals and

mental health disparities mental health
issues while a lot of correction this is

one of the populations that we're really
focusing on now because we've seen this

correlation between the frequent flyers
at their level thirty Gelett of Forth in

county jail which are people who come in
and out of here who are a lot of times

there are individuals who have and I'm
good diagnose that's a health condition or

they have that's a health condition but
don't have stable access to medications so

we normally do see this trajectory where
fortunately someone on commits an offense

they go into that the county jail
facility they began being assessed and

they say OK this person in
the bottle learns gives a friend.

They're not on medication.

So they're put them on medication long
enough to get them through trial and

then they get released on bail and they
kids seven days of medication upon Really

and what do they do in that
seven days afterwards.

That you have to go stand in line for
them to now or

is it crazy to get a thirty day supply or

are they in the splitting pills life
until they become mentally deteriorated

state until they end up with that of being
so that's the first thing we look at is

that there is definitely a need to create
more diversionary program particularly for

those who commit offenses and who have
a diagnosed mental health condition and

there are some accountability
quote that are looking at that now

with in Georgia we actually have one in
Fulton County a behavior health court

where just deals where people who
committed a felony offense and

have a diagnosed mental health issue
that's one side of the core and

the other side of the coin is what
happens within the corrections

they have begin shutting down a lot of
the mental health hospitals this is one

of those big budget cuts that's where when
it was they when the elected officials

are talking about being tough on crime and
putting more dollars in five corrections

they meant within prison though to do
that one way to save a lot of dollars

where they stay shuttered the statements
of the prison it was rich with

the Jackson Georgia so

what that means is that individuals who
are through the early start time and

who have uncontrolled mental health issues
then we're not talking about people for

mental health concerns with medications
we're fine we're talking about actual

people with Luther's they're now going
to be housed alongside she had pot or

within a whole pot.

So what happens when you
are person who is going in for

your dialysis treatment by the way second
largest dialysis provider within the state

of Georgia the Georgia Department
of Corrections Yes they're bigger

than the you know what you see with any
of the veto Dallas's around the corner

is that she stayed in Georgia so
you're going there for

dialysis treatment you're in fact
to help on and you're locked in.

Now individuals who have psychosis.

That really does create an unsustainable
and terrible situation which we do believe

is cruel and unusual and unfortunately
when people are released the trauma that

they suffered a lot of times only it's
asked for a sense of race there's a health

condition and there's not enough community
providers to see the only other side so

if you want to make a really big
difference look into technology and

think about it from the outset back to
really be a community provider for these

heart to see her profile ation especially
those who have a sexual base the fifth

I can't find a place for them to go to
get treatment when they get out of state

correction of one of the things that said
Yeah I was trying to respond to the far.

Right like we know that

incarceration creates mental
illness like create that P.T.S.D.

that's being talked about that people
come out when the conditions being such

that that make it very hard to there's the
structural barriers when you get out and

then there's the barrier is ray of
your own mental health struggles and

trying to reacclimated and
overcome all of the structural pieces and

I just think it's really important for
that's for

me why I really believe in the organizing
of formerly incarcerated people and

I have seen some amazing powerful
organizing in the state of Louisiana

people who serve ten fifteen twenty
twenty seven years in Angola and

as a penitentiary coming together to work
at night with each other because they

understand that they've been there right
and actually the kind of low level of

feeling and love that comes to other
people just when you survive that Sony

has just like led a different kind of
organizing that a lot of what we see and

so I just want to offer a lot of media
that's one of the things to support

because even even that then when
you're coming out yes it's great

if you could have access to the services
really you also need a support system of

people who've been through
what you've been really.

You are going to have like all
kind of judgment and questions for

you as you can join with.

Just a one who is out of here you know and

you know the next time you
know usually there's a.

So just a sort of bounce
off of what you're saying.

So if you think about think about the.

V.A. OK you know over the past
decade couple decades

lots of different things have come out
about scandals about veterans not being

treated correctly respectfully and
not getting the proper treatment

we know that the V.A.
The should be better for it and

one of the things that we have learned
a lot from veterans is about P.T.S.D..

And so it was I was talking to somebody
I don't know which is that but

I don't know and and
we were having just special P.T.S.D. and

I was talking about formerly incarcerated
people he was talking about veterans and

he said you know is the stupidest
thing I don't know why people have

this expectation that when you are when
you get out of incarceration or

when you're release that you're going
to be OK We've known that that's not

the case for veterans for all this time so

why are we expecting this same thing
some some perfect person to come out.

And just be able to reintegrate into
a society that has already basically lost

all of their opportunities that's
a vision I mean it's a traumatic

experience it is a traumatic
experience and for the most part

it depends on I guess you your family and
your social support system etc But

people don't actually like to
talk about it all right so

what happens when you go home we were like
hey you good and like yes and that's it.

So.

So actually having that sort of space to
open up and talk about the experience I

mean I have friends I have family members
who've been incarcerated I have no idea

what went on but I know I'm not supposed
to ask the question I'm supposed to wait.

When we have a real question
of that first because.

Sure.

If you look if you have figured out a
trick I get there's a question that are in

the room.

So the question is as with minimums
first book first protocols about minimum

sentencing laws and what should be done
with those of how the length of time with

which someone remains incarcerated
affect their rehabilitation or

really interested when they get back out.

So.

I think it up I mean I
think the simple answer

on the mandatory minimums is
just we should get rid of them.

They are definitely a product I
feel like to have fun trying and

they need to you know just for
it than a thing and

so you know this sort of real simple thing
on our state level in our federal level is

just minatory not have that as a huge
failure and we should feel that

I think that I've not done the studies and
maybe folks who are more academically.

Parted like would you to say so if you
like if you spend a year what are your

outcomes two years when you're out and
seven years when you're out on my

instinct is probably what yours is which
is that if you're outcomes get worth.

And you know over your time maybe that
levels off in a certain amount at

a certain time but I think that you know I
think we should really think about looking

at anything was ever just opened
up to code your state code and

seen the extent of the criminal code and
in Georgia and in

many other places it's the largest section
of the code it's got tons and tons I think

that we should actually be thinking both
at the sentencing and also just taking

things off the books like like who like
this idea that there is a crime and so

we need to figure out a question for the
poor child who decided that was a crime

right there been crimes from the beginning
of time then a leg you know leg we would

have a question there are public health
issues that isn't a crime that is and

that is an issue of public health that the
public of the permit should be addressing

and their behaviors and people and that
bother other people so I think that that's

where we see the direction we should be
going into is really about actually how

we just stripped our criminal code
many of the things a lot of love.

I would have to that just by
saying that I'm strongly against

minimum sentencing I believe people
spend a lot of time going to school

to become lawyers even more time
the employers to become judges

let's let them show us their own judgment
of that the second thing I would state and

that we know is that it's in there she
said it is really about tough on crime and

human mind I believe we should be tough on
crime that is going to be tough on crime

but there's a difference between
being tough on crime and

being tough on criminals and both of them
are not those two things are the same and

I think they're talked about
interchangeably but you can be tough on

someone who let's say they
picked your pocket and

they went to Coles and Barber just offered
your credit card you're mad at them do you

think that person should spend three years
in jail and should be put in solitary

confinement for ninety days at a time
because guess what sanitary confinement

decided by the warden in the the jail
staff is not something mandated by.

Judges.

I've had that happen to juveniles that
I've worked with where they've literally

got their credit families some use that
one of the credit card went to Target and

then literally spent over half of their
nine months that they were inside

of a natural R Y D C about
a solitary confinement so

when you think about the health
outcomes of that if we could have heard

what you said we don't have to watch and
think about what happens later often and

fashion to if it's just later because
he couldn't deal with his life.

For the local here my See
over there will start

I have two thoughts that come up in this.

One of my just say yes or
no they're related to the relationship

so in your research or

are you making more having type of
distinction between violence and not.

And if so what are those.

And then my second question is
around Has anyone looked at.

Issues of relationship building when
someone reenters overturns it is.

Particularly now.

Males when they come out and
perhaps try to gain

jiggly when it comes to even
getting in relationships with them.

And you know looked at even then and
how that might.

Be development of family after.

You spoke of the familial books
would you like to tackle the first.

Or the violent versus not alone for
the family first which are.

So in one area of my research I would get.

I guess you know I'm going to
spin off with the sentencing so

I would agree with the middle men for
millions being.

So waste time and money and.

The thing that is always very striking
about our sentencing policies and

the changes that we see going on so

you know it's Bri if we're able
to actually make marijuana.

A ticket a fine versus something that goes
on your record as no need whatever because

what Atlanta and what George and general
which state correctional people have cited

is that you know what yes we need to
be better with nonviolent crimes but

will find crimes we're going to
the punitive less pay and so we still

want to be tough on crime but we want
to be reasonably tough on crime and so.

The outcome has been that lots of states
have taken steps to actually decriminalize

a lot of things but they've also
increased the link with us today for

violent offenses and with the hope that
that will actually lower the cost but

that doesn't lower the cost that
actually raises the cost and

we see like the short term minimum
decrease in the actual size cost of

doing all this incarcerating thing and
then it goes right back up.

One of the things that can happen with
the decriminalization though is that we

sort of take away the mark of a criminal
record and what that means because we

actually have legislation on the books
that says hey you know what you cannot

be a barber if you have a felony on
your record you cannot participate in

this tree if you have a failure record
whether that's an electrician a plumber so

all of these sorts of you know
skilled jobs that pay good money that

legally you cannot do with a felony point
your record that's in the criminal code.

Including a constant ologists
just another of how this

kind of college just because of
the licensing That's because the license.

So why is that in there.

Well.

No one reads it right doesn't
matter if you're not affected.

Going to the familial relationships and
what happens when people come out so

I think that people are very excited
about the idea of like going home

one of the things that inmates talk about.

Are least inmates that I've
talked to talk about a lot is

what they're going to do when they
get out great excitement and and

then they get out and
they feel very isolated and.

If they don't have people who are actually
like saying hey come on do this they

will it's it's just really hard they
don't have the actual family support and

the family doesn't have economic resources
to sort of a mill you read the actual

legal ways in which we block opportunities
of people with a record that is extremely

hard so getting a job that is so
important because in your

identity is not just in the fact that you
are this person who has been discarded and

call this convict or this villain or the
ever dirty word you want to use for that

day then all of a sudden you know what
you are you have a job you have something

else to talk about you have another
conversation to have versus a conversation

you're not having because of all the shame
and other things the other thing is

that if your family is actually depending
on any type of government resources

then in some states you actually
cannot live with your family

you're barred from their bar for
housing you so where exactly do you live

because when you are released
from restoration it's not like

they give you money they
drop you off you're there so

you're back in the world pay your
release but you have nothing so

that what I had to connect is that
one thing to that what did that.

Thank reason they do give you twenty five
dollars in the check in your name but

most of the time you don't have an ID so
you can't even catch the check so

this is actually you do leave
with nothing in all of them and

speak a little bit about made availability
which I go all in on that but

here's something that understands when
people come home they do they have been

planning for like four or
five not years when they get home

in the first they come home
everybody's like and J.J.

is back in a coma party and they take him
to the gold room and everything happened.

And then the next day grandma or
mom up job ever they're staying with

because they have their wife or girlfriend
and them better to stay healthy and

they can't stay there if they have a drug
related felony which I'm not I wanted him

to hear everyone's I said OK I'm so
glad you're home you're good and

then of course you have to say OK because
you can't really talk about your trauma

the very next day going to be
you got a job yet you got a job.

Because who's asking family or
the families asking friends or

asking in these this
is your supports that.

They're asking you for something
made when you are ready feel bad and

then they can go back to work Mom and
get to go back to work grandma get

to go back to do what she was doing before
you were there the kids are going back

to school think about the focus on elation
that you feel that that's one of them

out with circles are really important to
be able to reconnect and employment is so

important but when they look at trying to
really reconnect with their family they

don't know how and this is where made
availability come then when you're

inside of a correctional facility you only
get to make around thirty to thirty five

decisions a day when you come out you have
four hundred this think about it how many

of you today decided what shirt you're
going to wear you don't have that decision

what shoes you're going to wear and
you only have two pairs they're white or

gray that's it so to come out and
decide am I going to sit in this chair or

that chair am I going to be able to wear
the blue shirt the pink shirt or no.

Had those little minute decisions and
how that impacts your life so

when you think about reconnecting with
family and reconnecting and trying to

start relationships be interrupted too
that you have for nine years of not being

able to make decisions that really
does impact made availability here and

impacts relationships in a whole lot
of other help outcomes that we see

that negatively impacts people sometimes
they feel like if I don't feel connected

to socially isolated I don't have a job
it's easier for me to go back and

make that money has any say in the West
End The streets are always hiring.

And that's with a no I want a pretty big a
back up there we're going to go soon as I

can especially this coming out and
this made availability and relations for

establishing them with wives and
girlfriends that they love me with it so

well you know Georgia not have the right
to but they discussed this Georgia

of course of the study in the presence of
a J.P. transmission acquisition in prisons

that they did cut short when they
started to see the actual numbers and

I would I would love to hear if you
walk up actually offer your insider or

information for the audience about
eight of his resignation and

about ninety eight on the sunny weather
then reconnecting with partners and mates

because again I love your point about
seventy five percent are coming out and

people have to really come
to grips with that but

whatever thoughts you like to
add to that I'd love to hear.

As a black woman in Atlanta it started
out to that other bed I'm in now

thank goodness it was a little better
than that what if he can tip you don't

know this is really interesting a little
bit of policy changes that we need to get

your groove on they test you for a job
becoming and they do not test you coming.

By that would say something about
transmission while inside and

we know there's things that we're
going to tend to not happen inside but

we do see that and then they come out and
if your mate it's been away from

seventy years you can say I'm going
to meet you who's been in a single.

The market I'm going to
need you to take if T.

test before we recommit What are you what
are you saying about that and how are you

going to do that so this takes this is
beyond condom negotiation this goes to

a whole different level and unfortunately
there is a correlation it was the inside

of Fulton County with the transmission
rates among African-American women and

the zip codes in which we have the highest
number of authorities that the.

So that's one of those programs that
probably needed some of these are pretty

good the distributors Yes you can have
hundreds and hundreds and spend there and

then have condoms and present to
the to me to use as a weapon and or

me to transmit illegal items so and if I
can just build on that I love it because

I mean that's really am especially when we
talk about heterosexual couples and but

let's be real and terms of the
disproportionate impact of criminalization

and incarceration on queer and
transform as well and and

you know and already astronomical
grades of each I'd be in for

a transfer because a good black
transit trans people of color and

the lack of health care the lack of access
to health care because those are some

extreme disparities that exist and
then I just think there's something about

the treatment of folks inside as well so
you know or just how it impacts each other

the status we had a call a couple of
months ago and one of our members with HIV

positive she's a trans woman and we went
and bailed her out of the city jail and

she's been there for you know four days
right on some charge and they tell you

you need three hundred dollars you can do
fifteen days it's called Pay or stay so

you got the money to get out you get
out right you don't have the money that

they're so it's a guy's a few days to get
the money again and we get the money but

by then it's your nature and you meant I
don't know how many folks here know about

your paycheck Yes but you have to take
them every day what happens when you

stop taking them is you actually can
you build up a resistance to them and

you have to get on a whole
different regimen and you know and

that means right another one of your sixty
eight hour days at Grady waiting for

that so
I just want to highlight leg just to be.

No I think there's many.

There's many pieces and I think what's
hard in the each ID conversation that

the sex in prison conversation is
it can start to just be toward.

Demonizing or or
there can be homophobia and

transcribe it inside of a conversation and
I'll try to say is right

next it's normal it happens it happens
everywhere including in prison and

right at the idea you can have condoms and
side is because we're pretending that that

doesn't happen right and just like you
can be arrested for having a condom

if you're a person if they think of doing
sex work out on Peachtree Road because

you're condom can be used as evidence
that you're prostituting right select but

then the that that is sort of
opposite the reverse thought.

Around what would actually be there
people wanted to keep people safe keep

people healthy the different kind of
all of that would be just a second

take Kentucky as their only separate state
that does allow condoms inside of jail but

that's because of a research study
they did the University of Kentucky

a lot of the medical
practitioners where they are and

they begin to it's not Palestinian
realized they had a rocket raid but

they just have the transmission
was that it was a federal rule or

is it state by state by state and in
the federal prisons are they are like for

me or how does that I don't
think she'll be yeah no OK

you know the jurors have of know with the
disease and here centers of state civil.

Relationships in prison OK so what or or

jail in jail or prison so
if you're incarcerated then.

And you're there for uncertain number
of time which is think about this like

you did it from an emotional standpoint
right I keep Yes you love motions but

barely so first of all when
you're actually a cursor is

you go through this whole process in the
stripping this dehumanizing process and

then you're told where to be
were to go and you don't know.

When your ex your case is going to be
called if you do know when you have you

actually have some sentence or whatever
you know you're going to be there for

some time or jail that's one year or less.

Prison that's typically Bill Nighy and
more than one year and so

what do you do what do you feel
where you who are your friends OK so

maybe you're used to being able to hang
out with people maybe you're not maybe

you're used to at least seeing friends and
maybe you actually hug your friends maybe

you don't have your friends I don't really
know but what I do know is that for

people who are incarcerated there
is an extra layer of isolation and

an extra layer of just trying to survive
the at the not knowing what happens next.

And with that comes relationships.

And they're not all sexual but

maybe you have a relationship so
I'm going I'm using a story from.

A former inmate OK and there was this
there are there are these behaviors that

people who have night the sort of the sort
of just like a couple of things I don't

know if there was sexual intercourse going
on or not but this was one of the things

that they did so that they could feel
some connection to a human being.

And so right now we're having
a conversation we can connect with

one another this is interpersonal but
if you're in a space

where you know absolutely nobody and you
don't know when you're going to get out or

you know that you have to somehow
pass the time in some way but

you still you're in for
that thing that most people do yearn for

which is a touch feeling
some sort of connection.

It has from.

Their site.

So on we're.

Numbers zero one zero.

Zero three zero.

Zero we're going to work for you you'll
return how are you going to do on.

Some other job with no one to talk.

To you don't you know
that there are quite.

Capable folks read my very words on
you with overs to read something.

You don't really know you ever did you.

Were the.

Number we're somebody here.

OK so.

So what I'm hearing there or
whatever Middle East able to take away and

that's not you that's like the me
is said here curious about OK well

when people actually do start to
talk then what happens next or

what are some of the outcomes for
people who we do talk to or

set resolute hundred one
of them to go over there.

So in a different study they did that

look still specifically at that
of the African-American men.

One of the one of the strange findings for
us was that African-American men

who were formerly incarcerated and
were currently free when they had a family

member that was a curse or rated their
psychological distress actually went down.

And so typically we would expect

psychological stress that go up if you
have a family member who's incarcerated.

Particularly though you're formerly
incarcerated you know it goes on but

it went down and so one of the hypotheses
about why you doubt it is that.

Now there is somebody in your family
who you could talk to if you wanted to

there's somebody who could understand
you if that's what you want to do

typically we know that men don't visit
men in prison instead women are the ones

who are visiting men in prison and
they're typically taking a lot of for

bull abuse because people do
that to people who they know

will come back and the reason the women
continue to come back your mom keeps

coming back even though you don't talk why
aren't you talking because you don't want

to bring her any more pain and yet
both of you are hurting your stream but

going back to these two this whole
like strange finding about men.

And when they get out and there's another
family member that is incarcerated

Yes the actual told those down but for
women that doesn't have them it goes up.

And so why does it go up for
women why not for mere.

I would attribute it at least with
African-Americans to the matriarchal

structure of the population and
women always sort of not always but

seen as at least the caretaker
of the household how could I let

this happen on my watch will
maybe it was all about you but

certainly this is how you've been trained
to think about your role in the family and

so whenever something happens
sit in my brother's For

example they meet some nice young lady or
whatever.

My brother has is this really funny way
of saying it says you don't have to worry

about my mother you have to worry about my
sister you have to get through my sister

if you want to get actually
approved into the family.

And I take it very
seriously the messages are.

Not going to stick with
the mother load up with.

Serious to do with that for President
of the book cover of that OK good.

Luck trying to write things like.

That right it is looking at some of the
question yes I'm wondering if there is a.

Problem so anxiety is also actually
looked at on this particular skill.

In terms of trauma so.

In this particular study I am
not looking at past trauma in

other studies I am looking at problem and
specifically trauma that occurs.

So that it's quite
normal unfortunately for

young people to see young people who
are in marginalized communities to see

friends be killed or
to lose their parents early for

them to die or a premature will
what I'll call premature death.

For lots of trauma to occur but
it's also very much almost normalized

there's the expectation this this is
fatalistic view but it's not exactly feel

is that if you actually see it happening
both we would call it being fatalism and

so if your expectation is that you're
not going to live beyond the age of

sixteen How does that modify your behavior
what does that mean it probably means

that you know what if you're going to have
a kid you probably need to have kids soon.

So.

I mean it so yes.

In short yes my my son my other work
looks at actual past trauma and

that's the work that I deal with that
actually uses longitudinal data.

And also I think of trauma in terms of
OK will have you had some of those in

a different interactions with the parole
justice system those are traumatic events.

And yet they're now you know all
the events because I couldn't

I couldn't ask people OK So have you had
any sort of negative if you know action

with the police or have your friends have
you seen this happen Have you seen one of

your parents arrested and these
are things that become so normalised and

yet they take such a toll
on a person's body because

it means that they are constantly
in fight or flight response and

it is literally weathering as one
person with a drop of us whether in

a way the body to the degree
that most African-Americans

do not see any kind of social security
because they died before that past.

QUESTION Yes I'm just depressed now where
you got the Hankins we've got you've

got the trucks and police.

And loves that you think you have to do
there's there's some really wonderful

federal models like that to recognise
those parkas models they could be put into

correctional setting particularly
that intermediate to long term

we're talking County and I'm thirty
jell facilities and what it costs or

actually begin to chant Google sort
of works I'm sorry works P.R. and

see it's a really wonderful model where
looks at her benefits because what we find

is that sometimes when a person is in fact
correction particularly those who may have

a behavioral health concern or a diagnosis
is that they may have heard bit of this if

they qualify for and this is a wonderful
time to start registering them for

the benefit of us get them registered and
they have be a bit of

at the out there with get them registered
or at least do their application for

Medicaid system times what are you
going to correction their Medicaid up.

OK Should a Medicare application is
terminated let's get them connected if

they have died or disability Let's
go ahead and start doing those

benefits while they're in five so that the
day of hundred lease they either have if

they have their package their applications
completed or all they have to do is go one

place because it's very difficult to
tell a person who's been incarcerated

particularly those never behavioral health
concerns you have seven as a premeditation

I need you to go to the F The diving to go
to V.A. any to go to you know you made it

happen I did all these different things
like if we could get that done ahead of

time still upon release I don't really
have that that need the application but

they also have their applications for
benefits they have and I'm like a State ID

that don't work you can't even with
a decent hotel room without an I.D..

Having those benefits available and
also doing more inside out programming

where practitioners who do transitional
living and how they were able to meet

clients on the inside so
they can go ahead and make a plan for

their first thirty days from the outside
that first thirty days it's critical

whether it's from jail or county or
from President making a plan for

what you're going to do every day for
that first thirty day helps keep people

out of trouble because there are seven
days the dangers are because

everyone's like yeah it's great amount
of people legit hang around for a day or

two but come dates four five six and
seven you need a plan of where to go so

I think that would be really really really
critical is just making sure those current

benefits that medication assistance
is in place before they even walk out

of the door because keep in mind many
people they'll fight will back through and

they may not have had their meds if
they left prison or jail the last time.

Yes.

Why.

Why.

Like a very different place today.

So I let you all decide why drape a rope.

Read up on you very much it is
you want and I really got a.

Barrel inverses crack was never a while
now are drugs shipped in policy

express what how can you
what is your best advice for

how they can be proactive at this stage
they are to make a difference and

the third is if you started
to get away these days mommy.

Will you can do to replace it
that's my privilege because.

I will just say the first question I
think is really is you know around

the drug war and you know the war
on drugs and I think it's a perfect

example of whatever speaking of earlier
kind of like a rhetoric that's built

around how are going to you know
eliminate drug addiction or

whatever and what you've done the next day
you've increased and we've seen an uptick

in addiction and public safety was not
a proved but thousands upon thousands upon

thousands of black and brown people in
particular were looked into jails and

prisons and so that's now with
the War on Drugs is a valid.

And and yes you see that when it's opioids

in white communities the funding all of
a sudden Congress is like my god I'm going

to put money towards exploring addiction
and towards public health responses

you know and that disparity that is so
it's so stark it's just so bleak.

But you know what we can take from it or
vary from it at least is that the way it's

being talked about with that opioid crisis
it is and the bunch better friend for

all of us and for all our communities
in what we're fighting for

from like a public health perspective for
our medical care as I see it is

how do we treat addiction you know I mean
in some ways in this country we're like so

far behind on that very nice.

And I think many many of us struggle
with our own addictions are people that

we know and love who have addictions and
we've been like totally

flooded with this idea of like
abstinence only at twelve step and

you just have to have the willpower to say
here is really no understanding of it not

the brain science of addiction no
understanding of harm reduction and so.

So I feel like.

Yes So I just I moseyed like it's
really important to be kind of like

visually to be looking at some of
the things that are being put in the place

because a little bit of the fact that way.

But to you know to it's
like another just place of

really your hypocrisy around what
what we're actually trying to do and

to say the criminal justice
system is a completely.

Ineffective and and
you hear me response to it.

The second there or the very question.

Very question was how it really ways to
break the state many of you still get

a lot of I think that there is you know
I actually really dealt with this very

practically and
dealing with in the city of Atlanta and

all of our memories because.

There's all this cost easily
you say we're going to stop

on the state level they're looking at
three criminalizing traffic offenses so

George is one of the few states where you
you're driving without a tail light and

that will land you in jail most times.

Yann that is and so

that's who's in our city jail a lot
of people drive a good ten hours

actually like driving with your tires
out all the way inflated in the ratio.

So those kind of types of
the state wants to do that and

the biggest opposition comes from
the municipal and the county government

who are like well you want to zip zero
that's not buying training and so what

we've been trying to do is is really tough
couple things one is like you don't take

money from the poor to give to the rich
but that's not how we should run things

right and that's what happened to those
who get picked up for those violations or

whose car gets chosen to be pulled
over right and all of their race and

class disparity there mean that you're
always its most vulnerable folks it's

always folks who have the least money and
that's what you're milking your fines and

your feet are out of and then they can't
pay is going to get another fine right I

don't know if you all know the preparation
thirteen you go in there are you

tracking to get and they say we got three
hundred dollars today off the menu if but

if you don't agree and
I say we'll put you on program.

And you can pay up to three hundred
dollars over the twelve month period but

you also pay a forty dollars
a month probation and

then you get from a company in your
life I don't need a drug test you and

you're like I'm in here because
I had a tail light you know and

they're like We got a drug test use That's
another twenty dollars drug test and

you got to do what every month right so

you literally go racking up three thousand
dollars worth of fines and fees at the end

of your at the end of your year right
because you didn't have to be right so

that is taking from the poor to give to
the rich right and what that case for most

often is like the judges that the clerks
salary the infrastructure right like

you did it's that institution that has
less self interest right so you do come up

against a restrung opposition I think the
flip side of that in a public policy way

is to look if you have a massive amount
of dollars that go particularly into.

The bricks and mortar of this.

Because that money comes out of the
general book fun and just goes to that and

it's it's I think maybe an argument why
you can't just change the policies but

leave the prisons and jails you've got to
get rid of the prisons and jails because

you know they always anything if there
is a bad thing if they will build it.

And so you've got to close down that
is the jails we better refurbish them

going to turn them into other things so
that they are not there and

they're not something that's dollars and
I think that's where the coffee and

coffee in this is actually reduced
hurts region and closed down.

Then you know that along the expressway
which is a question of or

two I would say that structural
functional little is really critical and

not to be under sold but they have
made that change with the engine for

now corrections where they started moving
away from warehousing juvenile offenders

and put in the more into communities
that Inskeep in the reconnected

with families and they show that that
decreases their likelihood of going

to incarceration as an adult so that's one
of those mitigating factors but keep in

mind being right is not enough we a lot
of parents have to talk that dollars and

cents argument that for example the guy.

Near Georgia came out like three
years ago say I want to do heads to

criminal justice reform for
juveniles and all of the advocates I was

elected to the main thing and
then went to a meeting with him and

said we're paying ninety eight thousand
dollars a year that we cared about

saving was ninety eight thousand dollars
a year you know what I will take it and

I will talk about the ninety eight
thousand dollars a year you get a day and

stead of twelve thousand in community
corrections I think that's really

wonderful and it's current when you can
do I talked a little bit earlier and

I talk about the criminal justice
policy and the education and

employment there's three more Packers I
think of the never went that you can do

is they get it from a community and
family structure you have to be open and

willing to connect to people when they
return home from incarceration and

she said that family reconnection and
having that increase that might be

expected the we have to
be able to do that and

realize or people are coming
from the banking thing and

looking at media there are the cavalry's
iterations of old tropes and

stereotypes of who's committing crime
then who's the drug users then I think of

the heroin epidemic and so
amazing really quick story is they

Indiana there was no needle exchange
because needle exchange was for

and I'm quoting it there Fishel
they are dirty brown drug users.

All that said there was a Chevy epidemic
that broke out in a rural area of India

all the sudden the governor of Indiana the
time a guy named Mike Pence may have heard

of a good God Guess what little exchange
we need this is only going to be

in certain counties and only in rule areas
so you don't have needle exchange and

Gary where you have those dirty brown
drug users but you do have it with

the fine upstanding young people who live
in the rule areas who are just been hit by

the opioid epidemic or face of this is
really a policy issue but still the way

that we talk about Carol when addicted
mothers pregnant women but we talked.

About crack babies that's a media term So
think about pushing back on that make

sure you use the Right now the plagiarist
specially use your shelves of media and

networks think about the kind
of images you're retreating and

sharing in where they're coming from that
along with communities and family and

then of course helping housing housing
housing if you have a place if you air B.

and B.

if you are going into a place asked him
a question about it just ask the question

maybe we're not going to take
every family live but I really

that telling the real story guy but
the one leg who had committed a felony and

nine hundred seventy eight if he lost his
leg due to uncontrolled diabetes that

wouldn't go all the way up if we could
not find housing for him because

he was a convicted felon so we finally got
Richard transitional living facility but

he committed a felony and nine hundred
seventy eight most of the people this room

were not your parents may not even been
bought of the nine hundred seventy eight

so this is some of the something
last year we were dealing with so

just thinking about that when it comes to
housing policy absolutely out of date.

So I'll keep my response sort of short but

that's what I'm going to be sure so

respect to the first question thinking
about this sort of different responses to.

Heroin versus crack versus
whatever else you want to call it.

One of the things that
I asked my sister do

is to think about it
different more on drugs so.

I did know this when I actually started
working at a particular university

not necessarily want that right now but.

Apparently there are some majors where
the expectation is that you will abuse

eighty eight drugs now this is not to say
that P.T.S.D. drugs are not helpful for

people who are actually diagnosed with
it but it is a felony for somebody.

To actually give eighty or eighty H.T.
trucks to somebody or to take somebody

else's which is a prescription all
right and so I asked them to say OK so

you know what this is a very harmful thing
it can cause death among populations

particularly when we're looking at elite
college campuses with fraternities and

sororities So if we were going
to actually wage a war on drugs

where do we start who is starting college
campuses and we would actually look for

turn of people who are members of her
tourney's and members of swords so

who would be in this room still versus
who would not and what would our

complete college university layout
look out look at look like right now.

Just think about those things as
you consider the terms all those

criminals and those and
then in other ring of people

because really is somebody
a criminal if they don't get caught.

I don't know you have to tell me but
what about that person who didn't

commit a crime but was convicted of one or
had to plea guilty to one so they can

get to work the next day so they would be
fired so they could support their kid.

Are they a criminal so.

I'm just going to what you say and
watch what what a laugh if you say

these words are are very extremely
powerful and extremely hurtful and

painful and you never know the experience
of the person sitting next to you

the color of their skin is not going
to tell you what they look like other

words not going to tell you only they
can tell you with their experiences and

if you deserve to actually hear about or
not.

So let's because there was a question
over here that I was looking for but

I'm going to do you have been a committed.

Yes.

Chris I'm going to get the rights that
cannot be significant to get the letter I

honestly think it's like today because I
hope each one of you have an opportunity

to have heard at least one thing that
you had not thought of before or

maybe not in that way any Each one
tells one that really does help to

spread the word because I'm looking out at
a group of people who are probably going

to have the opportunity to be employers or
elected officials in the future and

I would hope that you take what you
heard and apply that to your life and

what you do on the day whether it is when
you're walking down the North Avenue see

that guy talking to thoughts I think
about hey wait a second they did close

fighting for the middle help but also now
he's been held in a jail to believe that

he doesn't have that that they care think
of it like that and what you can do

because that's really important and so we
start seeing that this impacts all of us

it's not just a black issue or
brown issue this is something that

really impacts all of us
it's our internal lives and

that and how we you know react and
go about and

think of when you're doing research a way
that you can engage and that's really.

The kudos from all over
the whole to the place the in

the in the conversation about
marijuana which I'm all for

I just want to know is either
you can speak to the context.

As you know metropolitan.

Would necessarily give them or I don't
know in the legislation and they are very.

That's a halt and if we're thinking
about your metaphor of expressway

you know one of those it's one of the
education particularly for our black and

brown you to know that there's a certain.

When you drive down Peachtree you end
up in Brooklyn that's not it when

you drive down south there where you're
a little bit of a cock carriage and

you drive down Decatur Street you
end up in Decatur oftentimes we get

that's not right and so those rules might
not apply when it comes to the was a ship

in that hit that it Alamance into
a whole host of other problems for

a young man or young woman of color
who now because I fear a city

where you they have weed on on in
they're not going to get arrested

it could just turn into a whole host of
other things maybe some resistance so

I just wonder particularly your
organization the level of education.

Is want to be in place for
those to understand

that if that legislation is passed that's
more I mean that's not ELEANOR HALL.

You know.

Well you know the short answer is just
that we've been doing it you know we've

been out on the streets
you start to hundreds and

hundreds and
hundreds of folks is directly in this and

there's been a lot of news that hopefully
tonight will be a lot more news coverage.

Of this situation and I think that.

You know that it's going to be really
hard to get the word out I think it's on

elected officials actually that housed
Telic hold a town hall forum or

a piece of you know do a town for
him to let folks know

when we talk to people at the get you know
the metro Atlanta that it's true that that

is true of many things in metro Atlanta
counties a very different place right and

usually just cross a line here and

there but I think people actually we do
kind of know you know when you're in for

you know when you're in a you know and
you know when you're when net and

it ending up with you know actually what
color you are your immigration status you

you relate differently law
enforcement in those places

Sadly that's like the reality of many of
our lives but so I think it's really.

They were in to do
the public education piece.

But I think it's also important to then
have the movement expand and go take it

all the other city you know you don't have
to get caught having to go city by city

and so I think that we need to use
each hadn't really as leverage for

more you know and as leverage to the state
level because they could just become life

on the state level and then we would
be you know in a much better position.

And there was a struggle or
so before this.

For.

All.

I know.

For all workers.

We.

Know this by.

Still.

I'll talk to you about that I've said
over it because there was really

not that a letter they get they
don't make sure the little bit so

I ran into a judge one day that this
is actually a real story it sounds like

a joke right I didn't get it today we're
actually on a plane and she was lecturing

me about how I need to take my research
from up here and bring it down there.

So I mean I thought OK OK I got to get
it like no you need to say it like this

OK but that was that's not the point
she's a she was a judge in Florida and

one of the things that she starts to
do was when people would come in and

they had their different plea bargain
things she'd lined them up according

to their actual crime that they
committed and then have them flip

over the actual pleas that they've
been given and people start.

Noticing that all this judge is
doing this and so the public that

the DA had to sort of the D.A.'s had to
change their behavior at least within this

courtroom because it was actually being
very transparent about the actual

plea bargains that people were actually
being offered and that they were taking.

So to me I mean I was amazed by her in
spite of fact that she was kicking my butt

on the run and you know everybody needs
to be pushed and certain directions and

so that's great too but transparency and

more transparency in each
stage of the process and

even thinking about the ability
to pill during the process

because there are certain things that
we know well one we know that every

stage we see any qualities by race so
shake not a set as gender.

Typical things and we just sort of accept
it but why should we accept it why can't

we actually a pill things before the
someone actually says I'm pleading guilty.

Or can we actually after somebody
please guilty because they've actually

been denied the right to self incriminate
themselves because you have to take a plea

before you can actually get.

An actual public defender to defend you so
young to the in

erthly has to be satisfying to
whatever person you're playing to and

typically this going to be guilty
then you get the public defender and

then they're like Why did plead
guilty if you didn't do it.

At that point so a very circular system
that actually does not do what we believe.

We are do in our rights.

And particularly I would
say just transparency and

that they think it's really
crucial is really crucial but also

when we look at doing away with minimum
that I think a lot of times people.

Later on with those lower sentences
specially for a minute color

what we see is that they're basing it on
their prior him so if your first aunt

was possession which has a mandatory
minimum that's already a record the judge

did not have the opportunity to send it
you to a diversionary program or a drug

treatment program if you're a user you are
ready treating as if you are friends as

over to to distribute mandatory minimum
because you and your friend were getting

high with day so now your second time
when the judge is more free they're like

you already have you know you're no
longer a first time offenders so

that's what I believe that needs to be
changed that's the transparency and so

when you look back to the literature look
at that what they are in the look at it

from the sentencing for second third for
the feds as versus first offense

because the mandatory minimum messes up so
many people and the first of it.

And I think I just want to add
something so I feel like it's a.

It's a cause which is so in the juvenile
justice world there was a long time where

people there was a debate whether
it was judge's discretion or

right where it is it better as a judge's
discretion whether you're going to

transfer someone from June as a result or
is it better this is a matter of law and

I think what you come up with is you get
your template racist outcomes either way

and you and I feel like for me that's one
thing that that drives me to feel like

it's very important to get into the weeds
of policy as we walk down a certain

road but I think it's really important
to be asking the question about whether

this system is redeemable
in this way at all because

if you look at it you know a lot of people
will say that's right it's not broken if

it's doing exactly what it was designed to
do and if we look at the history of it and

ask what it was designed to do
those disproportionate or disparate

outcomes are exactly what it was designed
to do so I just feel like there will be

a lid that's actually going to make good
examples of the limitations of tweaking

like will say with no morning measure even
to judge especially well just special and

there could be a few good judges for
sure and I could probably.

Even that way if I had to choose one but
we all know about current rights we all

know about what happened so I think it's
more of like making sure when the right

yes the editing gates and it's in the form
we're going to go big picture back and

actually just like what if we kept
sentences all sentences right but

if we actually looked at things that
were read that there was no credit for

increased you know second time third time
words and there's like different things

that would I think more
drastically change how we were

looking at what the impact is so
what we have our intent is to punish or

if our intent is to make our community
safer and maybe if we use that lens

it leads us down to a whole set of policy
things that have nothing to do with this

right with this and
now that there are at over here and

when it's over for the sake of time
we're going to have to wrap up but I do

want to say before you all these are final
status that I have learned at all and

I hope that the others I like the first
words they think Egypt are coming but

if you could I know you gave
us a lot of your insight but

what is the one last piece of the site
that you have been given this year that

you like the crowd to go away with and the
tell someone else I will start here and

go on that because the actual
in the presence of.

God But.

Pretty good the good of the so that we
haven't talked coverage of three and

so it will form and I guess he's hoping
I'm going to go with the message but

I'm going to I'm going to sort of
play off what we've sort of thing so.

You have a lot of power as citizens as
students and you should use that power for

good because the great power comes great
responsibility Spiderman right all right.

So in thinking about this OK it will what
could we do how could we change things.

Slow a famous famous writer I drew a lot.

Or.

You never can pronounce the last name but

she said you can't dismantle the master's
house with the master's tools.

So we can try tweaking the master's
house with the master's tools or

we could actually think of this in
a very completely different way and

try to imagine in vision
what does justice look like.

What is our reason for
fantasy and is it are we actually

playing the piano I don't know it sounds
like a piano is he back there sorry.

And I guess the last thing
I want to say is that.

So in the end in a criminal
investigation if it is found that.

A police officer somebody along the way
did something that was incorrect

that led to the you know the visibility
of other things that were criminal

them we call it through the poison streets
I'm sure if you've watched any kernel so

he will say for the poisonous tree for
the poisonous tree.

Well we know very well that well
OK most of us know at least by now

since you've been listening you know not
fall asleep or anything like that that.

Our whole punishment system is built
with the purpose of actually subjugate

some populations and
actually making successful economically.

Through many forms of different path
little other populations because when we

actually take a person down that means
that that person is out of the race and

that means that other
people get lifted up but

if we can acknowledge that this is
a system that has been going on for

such a long time then it is
a system that is a result and

it is fruit of the poisonous
tree it is just that and so

we have to actually we're actually
I think ethically we have to.

Stop and go back and say well.

What could things look like what should we
look like what are our ethics what do we

say we believe in versus what we have done
because our Constitution doesn't align

with what we've done nothing the lines
of what we do and so what kind of people

do we actually want to be versus what
are the actual effects of what we've done.

I would say.

There should be opportunities for
education in general and

you should be asking and in prison setting
why those opportunities are not there when

you go back and as soon although you're
not from here you go back to your stay

is this something is available in federal
system that's not available in all states

as all the way up to college
degrees as those used agrees or

high school diploma if allowing people to
get that while incarcerated would greatly

increase their chances on the outside I
would say that the second thing I would

say is that would leave you guys with this
this is an opportunity for leadership for

each and every one of you each and
every one of you can be a leader and

as my mentor Dr David Satcher former
president Morehouse School of

Medicine It always said we need leaders
who care enough who know enough but

who are willing to do it now so you're
here so you care you've heard something so

I hope each of you choose the opportunity
to know more now on sleds for

all of you guys to go and
do more you know be a little.

I think.

I really appreciate both things I think I
had to leave with something it might be

like slightly on a different note which
is just so they also yes go be leader and

get engaged and then also I'd like
a lot of conversations today.

And one of the questions around
sort of buildings sympathy or

something like that like I also don't want
to leave folks especially I'm sure there

are people here in this room who.

Have loved ones MacArthur given a job
themselves have been jailed it's like.

To do with now the idea that folks
are victims or to be wards of the leg but

just to really recognize that there's
a movement building power of forming press

right people and probably on the can like
this to be really great to have somebody

who's been locked up for it I think I
will speak directly from their period and

we have family members of that
here who've been talking so but

it's just to like also so it's like yes
take leadership in that way and also help

support the leadership of folks who've
been locked up in bed directly impacted by

this isn't support that we're in transpose
who are targeted constantly by the police.

Who are organizing what's
now the solutions I think

you know get behind the organizing that's
happening that's really been being led

by folks who are like they've been through
it they know what it really is and

what it really is and see and
are leading the charge.

Yes.

All right let's take our family.

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