Good evening and welcome to the third
in our series of book reviews.

That are sponsored by.

Our school of city and regional
planning chaired by Dr Bruce to fill.

I'm Harry West.

And tonight.

I have the honor of being your
moderator and and introducing.

Dr Katherine Ross.

Who is directly responsible for the book
that we're celebrating this evening.

And also to share with you.

Our distinguished.

Response panel.

Made up of Shirley Franklin Michael Meyer
and Tom want.

Just a few things before we get into
the discussion itself the format for

the evening.

Will be introduction of our speaker
followed by her presentation

introduction of the response panel and
after which each of them will

make about a five minute statement and
then we'll open it up

on the floor to have your questions and
your comments and move on wall.

After that.

Conclusion will.

We'll have some more refreshments outside.

You'll have an opportunity to purchase.

Not only but
other books that have been produced.

This fall by other part participants and
the faculty has the Helen down there.

I'm sure we've got her book.

And we'll.

Will be doing that.

A reminder to any of you who
are getting icy at the credits.

Please be sure to sign in and out so
that you will have those records for you.

Everybody wants Katherine Ross.

I want her to be on their
board on their committee.

To give them advice.

Free.

Yeah.

I could go on and on about that the pool's
people talking at her constantly but

I won't I will tell you that she burns
the candle not only at both ends.

But in the middle as well.

I sometimes am amazed that.

At her ability to go on and on with with
all the things that she has on her plate.

She while doing that manages
to publish regularly.

Teach a class each semester.

Representing our school our college and

the institute nationally and
internationally.

She's a fellow there been layin
Institute and the National Academy for

public administration and National
Science Foundation advanced professor and

recently was appointed
by President Obama to

be an advisor to the White House Office
on urban affairs.

She's been to Georgia Tech since one
thousand nine hundred seventy six.

Except for
a brief period when she was the executive

director of the Georgia Regional
Transportation Authority during the.

Roy Barnes administration.

He currently holds the titles
of hair West professor of.

And director of the Center for
growth and regional development

to Ross is the editor of mega regions
lending for global competitiveness

a book that continues to draw
already reviews and publications.

Both nationally and
internationally and just recently we

started seeing it being designated
as a classroom text for

courses on mega regions and
universities around the country.

Most recently in the College of
Architecture at the University

of Texas at Austin.

To put in my pocket.

Well thank you Harry.

What a great introduction and
I was reminded when I got my

microphone of my first such experience
when I got it and I got there early and

they gave it to me and it was on and then
I proceeded to go to the ladies' room.

And I didn't cut it off.

So I'm very careful about
that kind of thing.

Now but really I always do look and
make sure everything is as it should be.

Having said that let me just say what
a privilege and an honor it is to be able

to talk with you tonight about this work
and to have such a distinguished panel.

I'm I think all of you for being here.

And of course think they can
all of you in the audience.

I got started and interested in
this about four or five years ago.

Five years ago when working with
the University of Pennsylvania and

the Regional Plan Association in New York
I attended a conference and and they.

Started look at the spatial phenomenon
this population phenomena that we've now

all agreed after being called
a super citizen mogul a la polis is

the where you have sort of settled on mega
regions and so the research over the last

four to five years has really been
make a lot of fun of the University

of Pennsylvania they had this
wonderful map and then we sat down and

I started asking questions like What does
it represent and what's the basis for

it and what are the numbers look like
in a sim with a really pretty mat and

it was but we decided that we wanted to
have a bit more a bit more of a grittier

understanding about what that was and so
really began what has become a long trek

are looking at this whole spatial
phenomenon and as you will find now we're

appropriated because usually it has a long
history in Europe and in other places.

So a little bit about that and

then Bruce asked me not to talk about
the book because we've read it so

I'll give you a little bit early to
talk about so what a new directions and

I feel compelled to do that because
they always say to my students so what.

So what does it mean what that we
learn and how are we to proceed so

I'm holding myself to
that standard as well.

So let's talk about this phenomenon
that we call mega regions and

this this definition has changed.

I suspect and hope it will continue to
change in a way as we get smarter about

what the spatial phenomenon is
let us conceive of Currently as

as mega regions as networks
of metropolitan centers.

They have a core surrounding area.

They are connected by environmental
economic and infrastructure relationships

and of course our challenge is to figure
out what are those relationships.

And more importantly what do they mean
in the local context a regional context

a national context and something that's
happened very lately what do they mean in.

National context because of this
thing that we call a global economy.

You can't maybe you can see this.

This is our latest work and
what we've done is to really define and

put some numbers around these mega regions
and I just want to give you a little sense

of those in that we have done population
projections very recently the woods and

pull data twenty four to sort of tells
you what their numbers look like and

you can look at ours twenty fifty that
basically identifies ten mega regions

our definitions of mega regions are places
that have a typically a population

of around ten million right now.

Seven out of those ten haven't hit
that mark by twenty fifty they do

the three that have not yet
hit it are Arizona Central Plains and

Cascadia plains includes
Oklahoma City Kansas and

Tulsa Midwestern close Detroit
Chicago Minneapolis and Pittsburgh.

So by twenty fifty.

However all of them hit the definition
of around ten million or

talk about their other
characteristics momentarily.

The observation that the neighborhood
is a building block for

City cities are now building blocks or
mega regions and mega

regions are increasingly building blocks
for economic units that are recognised in

the global market the global economy will
begin to look at different mega regions in

China in Europe the European Union based
on the whole philosophy of mega region

is pretty easy to understand this idea of
a building buy and sell the economic core

of our mega regions are one hundred
metropolitan areas the largest ones

the really explain the vast preponderance
of economic activity in our country.

I think this building blocks.

I thought I'd do a quick run
through just to share with you.

The assertion I just made about how others
in the world are looking at this spatially

So let's just look to your top left.

Talk order which connects of
Beijing China Seoul Korea Tokyo Japan.

Here they are managing to try to talk
about cross border relationships across

different countries this car has about
one hundred million habitants one hundred

twelve cities populations of over
two hundred thousand in each and

about what nine hundred miles.

It's really interesting because
they give you some idea spatially

of what this looks like but
if you look at the next.

Image top right.

The infamous blue banana which actually
identifies the economic core of Europe.

If you will and it starts in England and

goes down to Milan in the south is
sorry into the economic four and

I think the E.U. and the blue but
not a reflects the philosophy that we in

our work have appropriated which
basically says you have an economic or

and a surrounding area and
what is their relationship and

as surrounding areas aren't nearly
as successful economically.

How do you get rich.

What's happening in there and
spread that across areas that are not

successfully that are not quite as
successful in regard to economics and

then the other two are just images but
the point that we're trying to make quite

honestly is there are different spatial
phenomena changing all the time that can

help us better understand our cities
our regions our local areas and

communities and so my actually my last
policy recommendations tonight are going

to be look at what does it really
mean if I'm a small city in

America region since I make the assertion
that they go from parks to ports.

If you will.

So this idea of a mega
region that as I suggested

we are appropriating I was kind of funny
and I have to get the story it out but

the idea of the blue banana
is a minister walking in and

he was unfamiliar looked at this thing
upon the map and sort of all what

is this thing is kind of boots like a
banana out of whatever reason that moment.

Has stuck but it really does
reflect the SO idea of economic or

an economic driver and they've
appropriate what I think is very good at

the responsibility of rust
successful sentence to spread

that economic vitality to places
that are not fairing quite as well.

So we're making the argument there that
mega bridges represent a new context for

American Planning and I will admit
to having quite a deal of exits.

As I watch the global activities which
I tracked pretty closely and fall.

We have new countries with that slowly

increasing wealth on the horizon
rethinking what it is

to be a world leader rethinking what it
is to be the generator of technology and

new ideas and I ask myself
what is it that we need to do.

How do we need to position
ourselves are the places we can

learn from in this global economy and

if nothing convinces us of our linkages
certainly this worldwide recession.

I think makes the connectivity
argument from the financial

market in ways that we could not have it
if it paid it just a short while ago.

So the idea that mega regions offer
us potentially a new context for

American planning and what I like
if we go back to the images that

I showed earlier we talk about
being able to capture both

the economic the network interactions
the spatial and the policy.

The whole notion of cohesion
that the European Union

has embraced gives us the full on of
a lot with with respect to our spatial

economic at the end linking
that to policy formulation.

So why mega regions and I thought
this is a very helpful comparison

to look between mega regions and
non mega regions and so I'll just call out

a few of these if we look at geographic
area regions of the you know occupy about.

Thirty percent non mega region seventy
population of reference seventy six and

twenty three employment about

eighty percent in our mega regions twenty
three percent and not mega regions.

Patents I think this is really
interesting ninety percent or so

our innovation our technology our
critical thinking that drives

as you know industrial industry and
a new development

locate their fortune five hundred
companies the revenues generated by

the ninety two percent these things
that we call mega region and it goes on.

You will also know unhappily their carbon
or emissions in the order of magnitude

about seventy percent also generated from
this deal graphic spatial phenomenon that

we're trying to mean mega regions all just
some quick idea for you and that regard.

We have been struggling with
a theoretical construct and

have actually run in
numerically this kind of

approach to basically begin to make some
sense are what are these phenomena and

what do they mean and how do we think
about them and so I've started down

the path of looking at what are the core
areas of mega regions how are they linked

to we delineate mega regions
quantitatively and solve these theoretical

ardor pinnings have a look at as something
that we call connected metro regions.

The core areas are composed of core areas
and areas of influence as I've suggested

in the southeast the peak mine Atlantic
mega region we make the argument

that Charlotte Birmingham a rally from
the economic core and in the six.

And six space area for for

our purposes of our discussion would be
our areas of influence and they will be

gets asked what are the functional
relationships the economic relationships.

What industry clusters do we have
with similarities are there so

we took a whole range of variables and
got them distilled down to about ten or

twelve really significant wants to define
the functional interactions between those.

The clusters of the holes and they had
to come out with what we define as our

mega regions reflecting local and
regional characteristics and

so our trek to develop it began
to explore the question of

of mega regions that interaction within
and between focused on looking at this

whole question of central A C. which gets
linked to the notion of politics or tree.

Poly centric that is the basis for
the European Union's approach.

Geographically and so
we think there's a lot to be learned by

the poly the number of the large
number of special phenomena and

centrally focused ones within mega regions
and also as they juxtapose each other.

So look at interactions
physical relationships and

the idea of sort of synch Chardy
is kind of where we are now

this is our final map and then I'm going
to talk about new directions I want to

just give you a quick overview of where
we've been and if I took you through and

I walked the earth a little steps of the
large amounts of data the numbers that we

crunched previously and
to find these these now have.

Relationships that we could talk about
among them in physical ways economical

way spatial ways infrastructure
ways a local characteristics.

This is the most current map.

It's also the map that the Federal
Highway Administration is using

as of I guess three weeks ago Michel we
were in Washington and we were happy I was

very happy to see that this is how they
are conceptualizing mega regions now and

I think that's because we've really
struggled to try to make some and

not only in some intuitive operational
economic sense of the spatial phenomena.

The idea that the twentieth century

twenty first century is really different
with regard to our spatial challenges.

So this idea of seamless connectivity
metropolitan centers linked by are.

Rolls high speed rail.

Well we have a lot of that don't weigh.

Commuter Rail actually in GA We don't have
that but in lots of other places they do.

Water Resources alternative technologies

economic regional economic initiatives
the whole idea of global gateways.

And the responsibility of the U.S.
Department of Transportation and

others to now make sure we
have access to global markets

we don't have a cohesive infrastructure
policy no national policy.

So we have clogged gateways
different Shanghai disadvantage but

you have a really hard time for Savannah
West the global economies that you

cannot bear some connection some gateways
that are too important to be stuck.

So I think think in that
context if you will.

And then saw me talk a little bit about
sort of what are the implications for

implications for future development and
facilitating urban redevelopment.

First that is the creation
of new institutions.

We don't have a voice a process
that if the structure

that speaks to the special
challenges that we have now.

And so one of the implications and
one of the things this obviously missing

is this idea of what is the two
shoes will serve us in this context.

No cities.

You have a new city just popping
up between mega regions.

What is that special phenomena how
are they to be characterized how do we

have there be very healthy places in many
instances healthier than the ones that we

occupy now that is an opportunity that
we have new planning processes and

I think the new focus on policy.

And so
I want to talk just a little bit and

I don't want to do this too much because
one of our panelists Mayor Franklin and

then Tom has been involved as well.

Can talk a little bit about one of the new
institutions that has emerged is that

people Alliance for quality growth really
grew out of the interest of mayors in.

The southeast the particularly those along
the I eighty five corridor say if we let

this place get congested.

What does that mean relative to the
quality of life less worry about it a bit

more before it gets downstream and so
they have decided that they are signing

just the mayor's a memorandum of
understanding they don't have strictly get

their limitations focus and
they are way water energy

in transportation and that's their
mandate and they are committed.

I think in this a very effective and I
would suggest it's the most innovative and

the only organization of its kind and

the response of the challenges that I've
talked about relative to the special

phenomenon of the we're there
we're terming mega regions.

So why my last little bit.

Why before we talk a little more
about the policy implications is just

the fact that about sixty three percent of
the proposals Mauer's for high speed rail

of the United States is this than
corridors that cross state lines and

there's no planning capacity very
limited playing capacity for

us to do that so that we talk about
hi fi we're off of Charlotte now and

I guess tomorrow the president's going to
announce Harry was informing me of new

money if in Tampa Florida and
I didn't realize they raised five

hundred thirty five million dollars
a match or whatever he gives them.

So I suspect it will be getting money and

we were not in Georgia or
Atlanta let me just say that.

So this idea of a capacity a trend since
the geographic area is again in Port OK.

New Directions.

The creation of freight corridors
I've suggested that networks that

link to international trade not
particularly it's linked to commuter

rail link the high speed rail link to
train and that a clear new direction.

Greater sustainability of
the fact that we don't have to

deal in water basins
then we protect agree.

The infrastructure opportunities
that we have with this wider

geographic footprint that allows us to
call on less with our neighbors in a way

to preserve natural resources.

If you will housing land use an energy
are all appropriate opportunities for

us under this this framework.

A quick look at the side deal with diamond
trade with sort of trade corridors

the idea that less generous and
some of this I was talking to a reporter

who lives in Fort Wayne Indiana yesterday
and he was complaining about Chicago.

Even though he didn't live there is
that what happens is all the traffic.

The freight all the negatives associated
with the fact that Chicago is afraid hub

they feel it all the way as far
east if you will as Indiana and

what can we do about that but it makes
this idea that there are certain songs if

we had a national infrastructure plan and
focus tied to

our global gateways would say less make
sure that this infrastructure works.

That is tied to economic growth
invest in those ways and

put those categories at farms that
are not tied to the highway trust fund or

even to transit funds but they stand
independently because they are as I am

suggesting too important to fail
to offer that up that observation.

Now of focus on sustainability and
I love the definition

sustainability securing people's quality
of life within the means of nature.

You know we've had the Browning Commission
and the the three legs of

sustainability but the implementation is a
bigger challenge as I'm sure we all know.

And so the side DHEA of looking at
nature and heaven help us to find

a sustainability goals and objectives
I think is a very intriguing one.

So climate change what might that mean.

Under our the mega region I would suggest
that climate change is maybe a very good

it an appropriate target for mega regional
planning the idea of larger footprints in

terms of capturing carbon carbon emissions
it woman Taishan of green infrastructure.

The idea of protecting water
bases in collaborating

as the pulse of what we find ourselves
now with water wars in the southeast.

So so so proximity eighty percent of the
emissions are produced in urbanized areas

are left capture that have our policies or
climate change focus again

at that level land use patterns that
contribute to higher density and

a coronation of gasoline and
transport prices also represent

a new opportunities
are adapting new infrastructure

is also an opportunity that
we have in that regard.

Hurry up quickly.

I won't take too much time on this to give
you some idea though I like this idea of

the sectoral planning and that's what the
president did when he talked about HOA's.

E.P.A. and deal to working together so
that now one can actually have

access to funds that looks
at housing in mobility and

environmental in and
Natural Resources Management.

I think that's a wonderful
opportunity that just gets bigger.

If we look at.

This question of.

Of of coronating our policies.

So the idea of new is to to shift
the focus on implementation and

I am intrigued with this cap and trade
where we end up with that it seems to me

that it's not only those who are the basic
producers of all of our emissions that

we've got to let communities and cities
and small towns in on it so that if in

Valdosta Georgia they say look we're going
to reduce our carbon emissions walk if

they did a cap and trade business use that
money to what fund infrastructure fund.

Development if you will.

So I am are now and you can see that right
now the only big players in the cap and

trade debate are in fact in
the polluting industries.

I think cities towns are have
an opportunity to generate resources

at the level that which we need because
what we're talking about now really is

is a very small amount of dollars for
very huge financial needs cap and

trade potentially might be a way
to move us towards sustainability

what a great outcome where all our cities
are working now they can make a little bit

of money from it and then goes back into
creating even a more sustainable and

higher quality of life for all of us.

So I suggested that to the secretary
of the White House or of the fair.

He had said anything back.

Yet I don't know how
it's going to play but

I thought that was
a wonderful opportunity.

For see.

One of the ideas I have
Tom you'll like this

was if we make them take their population
up from fifty thousand up to one million.

What might that mean.

So now M.P.O. is that isn't it
is planning a little three C.

process and it has a population
base of of one million people

a very interesting and
different direction.

We begin to think about our
institutions as they exist now and

have different sets of requirements
corresponding to the opportunities

the needs that we have with regard to
mega regions are a couple of other

experiences we had the Swiss a Swiss
delegation here on campus looking

at this whole issue of sustainability and
they have wonderful public transportation.

We moved three percent on
on public transportation.

They probably moved nine hundred twenty
percent of all of their vehicles mouse

travel and we had a number of our elected
officials in Georgia in the audience and

they talked about one project that
they have their tunneling through.

Amounted in a ten billion
dollar project just to one.

And there are a couple of observations
one of them she said was the most popular

application on the i Phone
is the railway schedule.

So all of Switzerland take out
your i Phone you hit a bud and

you know where every train is
running throughout the whole car and

then when you know where
the run you buy a ticket.

It means you get a c I like their tickets
and since the correlative be facetious.

But but my point was it has that
kind of accuracy your reliance

the alliance built into
our public transportation.

She made another observations our elected
officials start talking about the cost

of rail and
that it doesn't pay for itself.

Like any other mode of transportation
does and we didn't have that discussion.

The day but she made an excellent point.

She said we're invested in rail and

transit because we want to keep what
we have so if not what is the cost

is how do you maintain the quality of
life that we have in the global world

maintaining what we have means what
spending more new technologies in

different ways we have the scientists this
mistaken idea that if you do nothing.

Everything holds on if you do nothing
it deteriorates in so she said we're

spending money to keep what we have if it
doesn't generate a huge revenue stream.

Now I want to just shift very quickly.

So we get our panel at the time we can
have some discussion which is I think

I'm looking forward to talking
about what does it mean for

small areas and I think it means a lot.

So let me just share a couple
of thoughts in that way.

Why can't small cities counties and towns
have much more of a say when you think

about a state facility a highway system
that's within their incorporated era.

Why can't they have loaning rather than
the State Department Transportation.

Why don't they share
a little bit of that so

that those communities can
maximize their access.

That's how you drive economic development.

In these places in the if
you don't think so.

Go to South Georgia look
at any corridor traffic or

see who is always trying to locate
there and what it means for

those towns I'm arguing for a paradigm
that would make local communities more

a part of a stakeholder more of an entity
with rights relative to the use of those

facilities in using those that maximize
are to improve economic development.

One idea relative to is of
suggesting small cities and

small areas greater flexibility and
zoning around around these areas.

I want I think of
a development I can't help but

think about transportation in my
mind there are synonymous and so

when you talk about the investment in
facilities whether we're talking about

transit oriented development but
bestiary and straying airports.

You're talking about development and so we
need to wear both hats in terms of policy.

When we make investments
what we do not do so

we're going to put the interstate
here in well what happens around it

is something we don't really talk about
I think tremendous opportunities for

our communities to participate
in a fundamentally way

important way I make the same argument for
the development community.

I think they need to get into the into the
process of working with communities and

neighborhoods around zoning much earlier.

I don't think after Steyn ability
works if you don't do that you educate

the people who are helping us build
our communities and that does require

a process that starts much earlier than
I'm coming from my building permit.

I want to get things started now and all.

Well we're going to have a fire
was owning our son our market for

our fuller are also working relationship.

I don't think developers want to do
the bad thing all the time guys.

You just to sit down to figure out
how to make this more sustainable.

How do we have more of a partner in
our relationship some observations

are in that regard create infrastructure
districts there's lots of ways

to do power sharing and I measure
transportation because it's in the really

important in terms of sustainability
health and economic development.

I like the idea when I talk about working
with the development community of creating

what I I have framed
communities of opportunity.

Those are communities where
this power sharing would go.

This authority this joint
planning would move forward.

And you would create.

Financing opportunities tax incentives

good schools affordable housing mixed
use all the things that we think

we talk about healthy places could be
the end product of these communities.

Of opportunity.

I think with that off.

Top And thank you for your very kind
attention and we have a wonderful fed up.

Pamela thier who are now
going to make their comment.

Now

our response panel in alphabetical
order because I didn't

want to take the risk of trying
to prioritize them any other way.

Are fairly frankly they were young and

Camille Cosby a professor
at Spelman College and

as you all know former mayor
of the city of Atlanta.

Michael Meyer professor
of civil engineer and

director of the Georgia Transportation
Institute here on campus.

Tom why and

director of comprehensive planning at
the Atlanta Regional Commission my.

Surely call me Shirley.

Thank you very much.

Thank you Catherine.

And I'm pleased to make a few
comments I would like to

acknowledge the city commissioner of
planning James Shelby who is here.

And several of you might have some
real questions about what cities do

with respect to planning and
I'll refer them all to him.

But it was my pleasure to serve with you
in city government and I wish you well

I was this whole notion

that the city of Atlanta should be engaged
in a discussion about a mega region.

And what it means for

a city the size of Atlanta which is
five hundred thousand people or so.

Over the next thirty to forty
years was really instigated

in academia at Georgia Tech by Catherine.

Mary and then I see Barbara Fagan who's.

Was was party to getting my interest.

I have a few questions.

A few comments that I would raise and then
I'll speak a little bit to what Catherine

referenced with respect to our
efforts to connect with other cities.

And city leadership in
in this in this region.

The first is as wonderful as
some of the suggestions were

that Katherine has the bloodiest battles
in local government are over zoning and

this notion that because
you have buy in and

people sitting at the table that you can
have a reasonable outcome in a reasonable

period of time is tested many many
times over in every small and

large and big city in America.

It is not easy to do and

often issues around development
in access to roads and

access to water are ultimately
settled in court.

So in order to look beyond the political

jurisdiction let's say of the city of
Atlanta or any particular jurisdiction.

To think that you can overlay easily
this multi jurisdictional decision.

Making around planning
is to think really big.

It's very complex.

It's very emotional and

elected officials get elected and
thrown out of office on those issues

one point that I would add
is as important as this

mega regional planning is to
the future of America to our region and

some would say even urban
areas around the world.

Somehow or another.

The local issues have to be
elevated to a higher level.

I for one think they should
be at the national level.

And that there have to be some standards
set at the national level in order to

achieve some of the advantages that have
been described in that we can imagine.

So then I would leave that that there
needs to be a lot of work around

the culture and the politics of the places

as well as around the structures
would make decisions.

The other point that I would make is that.

As successful as we've been in this
region and having six seven eight mayors

from Charlotte from
Greenville South Carolina to to gas Tony.

To.

And Lana and and to Macon

two of the two mayors who started
this are no longer in office.

Which means to a certain extent
you don't start at point one but

you certainly don't start
at ten where you finished.

So that again would be an argument for
why there needs to be a national

context for this discussion and
frankly incentives for getting together.

And then I would only take
one difference of opinion.

I.
Happen to believe that as important as

transportation is that life is not
possible without clean water and

therefore water infrastructure
water sharing and all kinds

of scenarios need to be developed around
water as obviously as a way around energy.

So Catherine and Harry and
Barbara and others came to me and

talked to me about one of my colleagues
in North Carolina who is former mayor of

Charlotte Pat McCrory we invited him
down to a conference here he and

I then hosted a conference
in a small conference of

twenty people from three sectors
academia business sector and

the public sector to talk about this mega
region that we're in to learn about it.

We've now had three meetings and
we invited ourselves to Green will

South Carolina and the mayor there was
very much involved and at the last

meeting which was in Greenville we decided
that we would do yet another meeting.

And that there were two tracks

one track would be that we find
the model that we thought would work and

that we would institutionalize the other
track is more common among mayors I said

we would just agree to do things in sign
on the dotted line and say OK let's do it.

The mayor's one.

And indeed the proposal is that
a group of elected officials.

A group of business leaders and
a group of people from academia would

get together and say we are signing on the
dotted line to know more about this and

to develop the kinds of structures that
are necessary in the relationships that

are necessary that we might be
advantaged as a mega region

as opposed to just acted upon by
the economic forces of the time.

And we are expecting that session
in thirty days or so in Macon.

And we are excited because we have focused
on water energy and transportation

as a start and we'd like very much to
find those things that we could begin to

cooperate on today and I believe you
want one example there are certain.

Infrastructure projects in
the Carolinas that it manage Georgia.

If Carolina gets those.

Or vice versa.

So we are beginning to talk to each other

about what those infrastructure
investments might be and

trying to find ways to throw our weight
behind each other as we are bidding still

in silos at the federal government for
certain infrastructure.

And that's just one of the ways that
we are attempting to innovate and

not wait for the new policy to come out
and the new guidelines to come out and

a general acceptance that mega
Regional Planning is a better scenario.

In the silo or jurisdictional planning.

That's underway today.

So those would be some of
the comments that I am.

I'll introduce Mike and
I thank you professor.

Franklin.

About three months ago I was
at a meeting in Colorado where

a senior vice president of a major
railroad threw up a mega region figure and

said look this is the future of the nation
and look where our intermodal freight

distribution centers locate nicely
with where the mega regions are Monday

of this week I was in Florida
presenting to a committee that

is developing the twenty sixty
state wide transportation plan for

the state of Florida and up what was it
me up when a mega regions slide that said

look at there Florida's the only perhaps
the only thing I look at California.

The only mega region.

That is jurisdiction only within one state

are we advantage we need
to take advantage of that.

So my conclusion is that the senior
vice president of a major U.S.

railroad and the deputy secretary policy
for the Florida Department Transportation

both throw up the same map of mega
regions mega regions has made it.

And I think really believe that and

certainly working with Catherine in
the book as well as other research I think

that really is a very important new
context for planning in some ways.

If you look historically and

you look at the private sector
in the economic markets.

And I don't mean this in a pejorative way.

Planning is almost catching up with where
the market's in the private sector has

been with regard to
transportation provision.

And I would suggest to you as I will
emphasize in a minute the institutional

and financial elements haven't even
caught up to where the planning group is

with regard to looking at
the scale of analysis.

This really isn't my mum in my mind in my
opinion the introduction of what Katherine

called context.

I would certainly call it scale scale
of application scale of planning and

something that really begs all sorts
of questions with regard to the types

of research and
I'm going to focus on research.

I was asked to speak on research
I won't talk on politics.

I will talk on plan I'll talk on research
by I have to say one other thing before I

talk about research it does
seem to me looking nationally

in fact internationally if you will.

There are two major developments at least

in the transportation sector that
Katherine did mention in her presentation.

That I really think beg the question
of how are we going to analyze this

if we don't adopt mega
region scale analysis.

One is environmental in greenhouse gases.

Although we can certainly look at local
site metropolitan contributions the scale

of the issue is much much broader than
that of course we can talk nationally and

internationally and globally but it does
seem to me that you are a state starting

to make a difference when you go to a mega
regional level of analysis with regard to

greenhouse gas emissions and
I think that is going to push a lot of.

Cooperation or perhaps collaboration that
people from people who don't want to

collaborate be able to take
a look at that particular issue.

The other one being biased.

The mayor says made
Professor Franklin's Surely surely.

OK he said she's biased towards
water was clearly biased towards

transportation and
the development of high speed rail and

other major facilities and
services that provide interconnectivity.

In the nation which I think is
just a matter of time to happen.

Time depends on who is in charge and

where the money is coming from really also
begs the question of how do you look at

this from a regular megger
regional perspective.

These interstate types of facilities will
not work unless you adopt a multiple

state multiple jurisdiction perspective so
I think those two things in particular

really focus on the importance and the
need of what Catherine has developed in

her book as well as in her research
let me talk about research issues.

Very quickly and

I think there are so many here that
I don't have time to talk about them.

But there is a particularly
brilliant chapter in her book

on finance had something to do with it.

That was an inside job on
institutional issues and

finance we can talk about how we look
at this from a planning perspective

we can talk about tools we can talk about
data we can talk about other issues and

I will speak to those of the terms of
research but it does seem to me that in

fact the institutional issues as surely
talked about and the financial issues

of how you finance these mega region
level types of infrastructure conducive

to types of projects really is the
critical issue in a previous life I was

the director of planning and development
for a state D.O.T. Massachusetts.

And at that point I was six
states in New England and

all I wanted to do was to get the six
states to agree that we would use

a common approach for
monitoring the weight

of trucks going through those six states
which in fact were fairly small states.

It took me three years to get through that

militia of different governmental
perspectives and no we can't do this.

Yes we can do that just for

a weight permit talking about mega region
level investments and who's going to win.

Who is going to lose.

I think is going to prevent orders of
magnitude other issues with regard

to institutional challenges shall we say
so I really think there are a lot of

research opportunities in the area
of how do we make this happen.

One model of course is what's really
talked about the mayor's but also finance.

There is a role in my opinion for

the federal government in
what we're talking about.

I don't think the federal government yet
recognises it but

if the federal government does not play
a role at least in the financing side

I think it will be very difficult to
develop the approach that we need on

the financial side for dealing with these
types of projects transportation projects.

Other areas of research.

I think are ripe for
what Catherine has presented.

Certainly there is a need for
tools modeling tools that look

at the integration of different
transportation systems

that had different histories different
development paths among different states.

How do we provide a megger region
integrated type of transportation system

and access to the global port ways
that Catherine has mentioned before.

The freight person first is passenger
issue I think is quite interesting.

Honestly I think the real challenge
is on the passenger side.

The freight sector doesn't
recognize jurisdictional boundaries

except to the extent of saying
Why pay taxes here and pay taxes.

There they go across state boundaries
they develop their entire network and

the context of where they were the trade
comes in and where the customer is.

I think we can learn a lot from the
multi-modal intermodal integration aspects

of their networks that really go beyond
the scale of a metropolitan area or

a state or even multiple states but
entire regions of the country.

This is the need for
a systems perspective and

Catherine talked about the connectivity
the multi-sector are all connected and

whether it be water whether it be
natural resources or whether it be.

A development whether it be broader
environmental quality issues and

transportation.

When you go to the scale of a mega region
I think there are all sorts of issues and

challenges with regard to how do you
look at those from the perspective of

the system.

And System Performance if you will.

Very interesting questions and

then finally finally the second of
course is environmental modeling

which gets at the mega mega region level
especially we've got to greenhouse gases.

And then finally there are I think
some significant issues on equity.

Catherine talked about the mega
region versus non mega regions areas

we have discussed this at meetings before
where the question is a what about

the have nots.

What about those states that have
senators that have Congress men

that in fact want their share of
the pie and yet you're talking about

focusing investment in these other
wealthier areas of the country.

I do think there are some very significant
public policy questions with regard to

what do you do with the other parts of the
country that are perhaps not partake in or

benefiting from the large ass.

If you will of what's going to happen
especially if you're going to target and

focus investment in the mega regions
which by the way I think you should but

in this country with our political system
you have to deal with that element

of developing a national policy
before you can get anything done.

So bottom line I compliment Catherine on
the book I compliment her on the research

it really is I believe a seminal work
in terms of really defining a new

scale a context of Transportation Planning
planning not transportation.

Thank you Michael.

Maybe even water and
it raises all sorts of interesting

questions that from
an academic perspective and

from a university perspective
I think is quite exciting.

With regard to the types of research that
we can do to contribute to understanding

better what the real implications are.

Thank you.

Mike if the railroad executive in

the in the planner in Florida mean
that mega regions has a right.

We actually have our own
map that is the problem.

So because we've actually taken

to heart the idea that mega
regions does mean something.

I had the privilege of working with
Catherine and a group of students all or

five years ago I guess I'm not sure
where they were here in assured in

Madrid to look at the European
experience as well as as well

as what the implications that might
have for for our community and

we've taken it to heart through our
work that we call fifty forward

at the Atlanta Regional Commission we've
tried to get beyond some of the day to day

sorts of zoning issues or what's happening
in the legislature on transportation for

finance or what the most recent
federal judge has done to us

on water and and to try to think about
what those issues are that really

are going to drive us fifty years down the
road or maybe that we should be thinking

about that will be driving us
fifteen years down the road and

we've we've put mega regions on
the agenda for the for this region.

And we've really come to understand that
really means something that is a real

phenomenon it is not just a an
intellectual construct we did a projection

of how big the Atlanta
urbanized area would be.

When we grow to eight million people.

If we continue to grow
our current densities.

Well we're not talking just about
the Metropolitan Statistical Area but

the Atlanta urbanized
area would be in Alabama.

It would be in Chattanooga.

It would be in Athens and
it would be in Macon so

now clearly that's not a development
pattern we want to see.

But I think it is indicative
of the pressures we have and

it's helping us to understand
the interaction between us and some of our

neighbors as well as the implications of
our own growth patterns in that context.

Part of our mega regions Research Act
actually looked at such things as as as

the for example the costs of
transportation the cost of congestion and

if you look at at the cost of congestion
in just the four principal cities.

In the ham mega region.

In one thousand nine hundred eighty two.

We estimated that the annual cost of
congestion was about two hundred million

dollars sounds like a big number by
two thousand and five it had grown to

three point five billion dollars
in annual congestion costs and

time wasted by travelers just in the four
largest cities of the mega region.

Grew from about twenty one million
hours sitting in traffic annually

to over one hundred eighty four
million hours sitting in traffic.

That's pretty dramatic numbers.

In terms of what we are losing in time
what we're losing in our economy in those

four major cities and it suggests that
we do in fact have something in common.

Now whether we're what
lessons we're taking for

from that I'm not sure
some of you may have been

down in Centennial Park over the weekend
and had a tour of the light rail car.

Which was stopping here on
its way to Charlotte but

surely we hope will we get it when I.

They I talked to them about whether
that would be the car we would get and

then they'd be happy to redesign
the color scheme for us.

I'm sure.

But I'm not sure we're taking the lessons.

Yet at some levels I
have to say that I think

regional leaders in the Atlanta region
are really beginning to get it.

I really think they are beginning to
understand the need to look beyond

their own jurisdictions and
a good example of that

is the fact that there are regional
leaders haven't fact come to.

Gather to produce a long range transit
vision for the metropolitan area.

Very aggressive cost a lot of money.

We're still working on how we put
the institutions together to do that.

But but.

In that process and
especially in talking about funding.

We've actually gotten senior I mean
the most senior leaders of many of our

governments to say you
know we don't want to have

a a new funding source that goes
strictly to our jurisdiction.

The new funding source
needs to go to the region.

And I think that's a that's a sea
change that we would not have have

experienced just a few years ago.

Now the fact that we've gotten
battered in the state legislature for

two years that probably helps.

Help soften people's attitude up about
cooperating in a different way but

I think it's real.

I think the partnership that's been
formed by Shirley and Pat McCrory.

And I believe their successors will be
involved in this is a recognition that

at a different level that a different
kind of cooperation is needed.

I I And not only entry would delighted at

the notion that some
restructuring of the M.P.O.

the Metro on planning organization
process should be on the table.

We clearly have too many M.P.'s.

There way down fifty thousand people
is a ridiculous level for M.P.'s.

I think we need more
than just a restructuring

of this size however we need
I think at the federal level.

A conversion of some of the rhetoric and
I hope your advice to

the White House will be along these lines
the federal rhetorics pretty good right

now in terms of supporting regions
delivery is pretty abysmal right now.

An example.

Elana region submitted an application.

One of four applications.

Submitted by regional groups for

the Neighborhood Stabilization Program
to which was the grants for

which were just announced
a couple weeks ago.

There were four submitted nationally.

None of the regional applications
were awarded now maybe we did

a bad job but I had think that at least
one of those regional approaches.

Could have been could
have been accepted by.

By the powers that be and

converting some of the administration's
rhetoric to reality.

I think it's hurt the administration

because it's not only has it has not taken
an opportunity of supporting regions.

But it probably has left a bad taste in
the mouth of the local governments who

decided to try to do this.

Regionally.

They may not be so anxious next time.

So I think we've got to take these
concepts which I think are appropriate

are valuable are real and build

on some of the I think more sophisticated
understanding at the local level and

make some of that real at the national
level as well I think it's

a huge leap to make and I haven't even
mentioned the issue of state which

which is perhaps something we can get
into in our further discussion but

I think it's been a real
contribution to two certainly

the work on my greatness has been a real
contribution to us in the Atlanta region.

Thinking about our place in
the southeast and in the world economy.

And I congratulate you on
the the work with thank the.

Now is your job.

Rather question or comment.

Yes I mean up to it.

It's pretty nice to see.

Yes yes yes yes yes yes.

Right.

Well yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah well thank you for

the question I mean there
already been winners and losers.

And if we're not careful America loses.

I'd say that first and
America's cities lose and

where all of the economic activity
mean the economy any can't can it.

Lana in the region in the pan region
are not exceptions everyone is

is stretched when it
comes to infrastructure.

I would say that one of the ways it
mayors have done this through the U.S.

comments of Mayors is there are a variety
of different councils around if issues and

there's a railroad Council and

John Smith who was a mayor
Meridian Mississippi and all.

So a significant player in the development
of certain federal policy around

rail over the last fifteen
years has convened

groups of mayors from all over
the country large mega regions and

small communities except to see
if there is some common ground so

that people can be winners at
some level but on the other hand

if the goal is to have a viable economy
ten fifteen twenty years from now.

You've got to be really clear that
that's where you're going and that you.

You know it doesn't work if everybody
thinks that it's going to be equal.

That's my second point
my third point would be.

That there are winners in
the United States already when it comes to

infrastructure investment.

They just don't happen
to be in the Pam region.

I grew up in Philadelphia.

I grew up in the northeastern corridor.

I visited Boston recently.

With a multi-billion dollar investment.

They are winners when it
comes to federal investment.

So this notion that they're not
already winners and losers is flawed.

They're already winners and losers when
it comes to infrastructure investment in

the country whether it's
from the federal level or

whether it's multi jurisdictional I mean
there are states that have come together

to solve their water problems don't
happen to be Alabama Florida and Georgia.

But there are states that have done
that around certain issues around water.

So I would I would not even
start at that point I'd start at

what is it going to take
to sustain the economy.

What is it going to take
to grow the economy.

What is it going to take to raise
the level of the have nots.

Many of whom are in urban areas or
nearby and

then back into what else do we have to do.

In order to complete the formula.

I don't know if that makes sense I
guess my response to that is very

simple you give it you give them
something I don't think that

we can in any way credibly suggest that
high speed rail is going to be the answer

to transportation needs in any major
region in the country or anywhere else for

that matter and the analogy I
would have put on the table is

I've talked a lot of the legislators in
Georgia about the state transportation

situation in state funding and of course
many of them are from rural Georgia.

And all I hear about as unpaved roads and

my solution is very simple give
them money to pave the damn roads.

But given Lana you know what it needs
to deal with this particular problem.

I would suggest to you that a logical
approach would be in kind of conjunction

with investments in high speed high
capacity systems to make the mega regions

work is to provide some form of
a program that allows communities local

communities not in the mega regions or in
the fringes of the mega regions to develop

their transportation systems that better
connect them to the mega regions where

the economic activity is that could very
well be roads and probably will be roads.

I don't have any problem with that but

it does seem to me that you have to
look at this issue not just simply

as a megger region issue but as a national
issue as I think your comment or

question suggested you're not going to
get much through Congress must have

a little bit of something very bloody with
the haves hopefully still getting what is

necessary to put in place the capacity
the transportation capacity to

really support economic growth that which
I think is really where the future is.

Just a quick comment to reaffirm
some of that looking at.

I happen to have in my pocket to look at
a practical illustration when I directed

the Georgia Regional Transportation
Authority we had no Regional Express Both

course now we have operating expense and

Lincoln well throughout
the region a little the mayor.

But that means what event
in order to get that done.

And of course the issue you always
hear is operating cost and.

We are all the capital we can roll it
started to get been operating costs.

Well if you look at some of
the arterial roll structure in some of

our colleagues you find that they care.

The turning radius of Boston.

It's too big.

We're going to be accommodated.

So why don't we get it done for
them got about three hundred thirty three

hundred million dollars in
arterial road improvements and

they gave us money to operate the buses
because we didn't have operating funds so

there's always I think if you're
interested in a common we're in a win and

have a clearly stated goal
there's ways to a power as Marco.

And Mayor both suggested
a short way suggested.

There's a way so

they gave us operating money we gave them
arterial money to improve their arterials

which a lot of buses to operate in I think
now the express bus the system in growing.

I know the notion of money.

I mean we I mean we we

all live in different kind of political
environment around the country.

I mean we watch what is
going on in California.

I'm old enough to have believed when I was
a child that California wouldn't exist

by the time I was sixty four years old
as it was going to fall in the middle.

You know.

Now really I mean there's a lot of
discussion about that nine hundred fifty

S. And you know among lay people.

It turns out it's crashing on a number
of other issues it's not that right.

But but part of that goes back
to a public policy the public

policy decisions we did determine on
what we're willing to spend money for.

And whether we continue to elect people
who say I can do more with less or

I can do anything with less.

And we continue to have that dialogue
in politics as if it doesn't cost

money as this was said.

So we fool ourselves.

I mean I.

Advocate I mean I supported the president
in in his early months and running for

office but the notion that you can say
you can freeze domestic spending and

do what we are talking about
doing is a very strange proposal

for addressing the economic issues and

the transportation energy and
water issues that face the country.

Doesn't does make sense.

No I.

Ask.

Yeah that's good.

OK I haven't read it either.

And I think that thought they were wrong
but I put them in anyway I'm joking

and I understand your.

Yep.

You're.

Problem is that.

Well I guess a couple of comments.

One is I I would not link

a sprawling mega region I think before
we have a major region we had sprawl.

We had a for a long while and I suggest
it's not going to go in the morning so

I think that link is one
you can certainly make it.

I it does it's not particularly doesn't
strike me as a particularly where I would

start the discussion but it's there.

You know whether there's
a a big fight is a fire.

So I don't so much because I think we have
to work on the geography got to work on

the institutions.

What I'm intrigued with is
the opportunity to frame an investment

strategy a competitor strategy
a sustainability strategy a water

resources management strategy that
helps us economically and I think

mega regions which is why I started by
saying it's a new context for planning.

Is relevant at all levels at all places
absolutely much all the solutions

we think absolutely not.

But do we need a voice a national
infrastructure policy.

A strategy for managing water resources
that ignores geographic boundaries.

How we begin to tackle perhaps
the reduction in carbon emissions in

a way that might more meaningful with more
substantial good results for all of us.

So I admit the rest of it is sort of
come along but my intellectual interest

has really come out of justice of despair
as much as anything else that in fact

there were so many large problems and we
were using twenty two for something that

require a shotgun is a terrible analogy
but but but the scale that sort of.

The sort of.

So that's one that that's one observation
this issue of whether you buy it or not.

So the question is if you look at
what the global economy is doing and

what our competitors are doing.

You've got at least ask yourself
while we are on a train.

I don't have to be the high speed train.

But while we're looking for alternative
energies better ways to travel.

And so those kinds of issues are now
on are the ones that have driven.

I'm doing my own intellectual curiosity.

Yes.

Except the way that it happened is that
a lot of the states say I want one and

a lot are Tatar economic engine so
we are at the point I'm trying to make is

let's see where we have global gateways
that have to work for obvious reasons

to some extent the kind of brokered
way you want to put back together.

We're missing it not totally but
more than I think we should for

the money it's got a car.

Right.

Well I don't know the answer
to those two questions.

I do know though that when
we sit with Charlotte.

And we sit with a Greenville.

M We sit with gas.

Tony in the cities in the few cities we've

sat down with water comes to
the table as well as transportation.

That Charlotte has issues and
the Carolinas have issues around water.

And if you talk to industry
leaders in those settings.

There is a great deal of
concern about constraints on

water in a basin transfers all sorts of.

Not just the federal suits
we happen to be in so.

And so I would say to you that.

I think that there is an opportunity
out of the current suit which I'm not

particularly I'm an expert on to fashion
some water management water quality.

To do some planning and adopt some
policy that at least advances us.

To acknowledge that there are limitations
on water in this in this region certainly

in the state in of the city of Atlanta as
investment in water infrastructure far

exceeds our ability to pay for
billion dollars

fifteen years two billion dollars already
spent and that's just the ground floor.

We need to come right behind it and start
talking about storm water management.

After we do waste water and
drinking water.

So water infrastructure investment is
going to be on the table for a while and

it is you know there are a lot of opinions
or engineers who say we have enough water

which is used to write another engineer
said Well for just released it.

The bottom line is we're all
struggling in this region

over water resources some people
have more some people have less.

So it would seem to me that I know
the mayor of the former mayor of Charlotte

feels that war is a big issue for
them in their part of the region.

It is certainly for
this part of the region and it and

I will just admit that it was a fairly
significant struggle to get water

infrastructure discussions on an ongoing
basis at the Atlanta Regional Commission

not an easy thing to add because there
are no federal funds associated with it.

There are no mandates in federal
guidelines that say you have to do certain

kinds of studies and have input and
you know all of the things that go

into transportation so there is a lot less
discussion about an order infrastructure.

Then there is transportation
infrastructure in this region.

And I guess because we had so
much money invested that I was insistent.

That's not the case now
thanks to the staff.

We're not.

North Carolina.

Maryland.

What's what's going to happen.

Somewhere.

Some.

Yeah.

So.

Right.

OK that's a very good question and
I I don't think I have a great answer.

Atm but I don't think there is
something and the side of tailoring.

Institutions are structural So
the particularity of place.

Us all the.

One size doesn't fit all.

And one investment
strategy doesn't fit all.

And so I guess I have to hope that
those particular areas begin to give us

a direction relative to identity and
something that people can be

I can identify with and see themselves
within the context of that entity.

Now whether it's you know my memory to
be sure major reason I'm joking good but

in a way I think that's what we have
to figure out in how do you sell it.

This whole idea of you know.

I make the argument that trade
corridors are not the same because

they're not because of what they
do where they're connected but

when you make that argument in different
places to the point that was made it.

I feel disenfranchised.

How do you rally different
entities in different places and

different people around one idea and that
moves us in a very positive direction.

It's a challenge.

I'll tell you just opposed to
what we have now which is what me

my in my in it's all a one quarter acre.

That in the Pam region we have what seven
thousand different governmental entities

some of which can't operate wealth
in a way we have our challenges with

the sort of this aggregator approach to so
I guess I worry much more about that but

I think your point is well may and
I was aware of that and

I I think this American Newsom's in
the in the culture of the social

mores that as US begs a different
approach and I'm not sure what that is.

Could I just expand on
that a little bit and.

I've thought about that same idea and
I I don't know whether this is

an answer either but it's it's a parallel
that I that I've thought about.

I work for Regional Planning Commission
where we have the power of persuasion and

we can job and people and that's about it.

The few places where we have a little
bit more authority than that but

mostly that's it.

So you can't.

Make regional policy and and change
the region by making regional policy.

I mean you have to do that and you have
to have regional plans and all that.

But ten years ago I think we
began to understand that what you

really had to do is you had to facilitate

real things happening down on
the ground at a community level.

And we have.

And we have tried to do that
a lot over the last ten years in.

In everything from providing training to

newly elected officials to our livable
centers initiative program to to

a lot of stuff that happens at
the community level and somehow somehow

out of that we are beginning to
change what the region is now.

We're still going to make regional
policies and we're going to still a Dr

those things but but but somehow we've
had to translate what we're doing or

what we want the vision
of the region to be

into something that really has a meaning
down at the community level and and

whether that communities that
run a central business district.

Or it's a first tier suburb or

it's Woodstock in northern
Cherokee County I mean you

try to find a way to make these something
different happened in all those places and

I don't know whether there's some sort of
parallel with with how you begin to shape.

You know even national economic policy or

mega region policy by by taking action
that I mean your language Catherine

that you quoted here what had to do with
how you can see these building blocks and

I think there's something
useful about that idea.

But because to your point about Catalonia

seen itself as similar to
Marseilles a link to Paris.

Well.

You know by by helping in our context.

Communities think for themselves.

We actually have the city of
Stone Mountain understanding how it's like

Woodstock and
how it's like they at Ville and

they actually start to
behave differently that way.

And they actually I think
start to recognize that

that there are some things
that they can do to gather

that that that shapes some bigger
policy issues that help them.

I don't know whether that's
useful power or not but

it's a problem something to keep process
just keeps crossing my mind when I think

about what mega regions
means to our lives here on

one final you know

that you're in and you're

really you know you're

right there

are so social So you know.

I think that's the big the big one of the
bigger challenges now and we need to do

a lot more work and research around have
topic but what's been clear to me that

is that there are lessons in the private
sector as well as the public sector and

I appreciate your mission in that I
had not looked at those explicitly but

this idea of mega regions and
a funding strata stream revenues

that would be targeted for in-service or
certain areas whether it's water energy or

transportation on that basis I and
you make the case if you look at what's

happening in England now of course what
they have been sort of try out the three

people a new you put your project for
isn't as one of national significance and

if they like and say yes you get a whole
lot of money if they don't you don't.

Now we probably won't get there but
my point is and

I think it's what you're referencing
a strategy a structure with some

I hope rational cohesive
undergirding that would then get

tied to the allocation of resources and
would target opportunity and

meet some of our challenges I
think that's where we have to go.

We are certainly not there yet.

Thank you for that observation.

Thank you.

Let's go with thang.