Now join me in giving a big Georgia Tech.

Welcome to MIT.

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU.

It's great to be back for
those of you that.

Have never seen this format
before I don't know if any of

you ever watch any of you ever
watch Inside the Actors Studio.

On Bravo.

Well this format is very much like that.

I like to say it's a cross
between this is your life.

I'm dating myself here and Inside
the Actors Studio face thirteen years I've

been doing live events live interviews in
front of an audience of entrepreneurs and

leaders from around the world that
it's a blessing to be back and

I thank you for having me.

It's one of the things that I always
find fascinating in the journey and

it was kind of mentioned in its own
way something that I coined years

ago called Opie other people's experiences
and they're absolutely priceless.

And during the journey and I think one of
the great gifts of being an entrepreneur

is the people that you meet along the way
and this to see some of the things that

they do and some of them have such large
ideas and such large dreams and then.

Very few of them execute.

But not in this case and I am really
really thankful and honored to have two

friends of mine who are also the creators
of the National Civil Rights.

Excuse me the national the civil and
human rights center and next to me.

First off is A.J.
Robinson and also it's the C.E.O.

and the executive director of the National
Center for Civil and Human Rights.

Doug Shipman So I want to give
them a big welcome for coming out.

Thank you so you might start off and

sit there and say you know what
is this place and many times.

I've asked people and not a lot of
people have known about it and.

Guess what this place is
going to be built and

more importantly right here in Atlanta.

And I want to still learn from their
journey today so I thought I mean A.J.

we would start off with you and I'd
like for them to get a sense for you and

your journey and how you met Doug and

then we're going to get into
the meat of today's interview and

around five fifteen five twenty Alan I
promise you we will leave room for

our questions A Last year
we did one that was so

well that that would have a lot
of time for questions A.J..

Well thanks very much and
good afternoon to all of you.

I run an organization called central land
of progress which is a downtown Atlanta.

Organization that concerns
itself with the health and

vitality of the community
on many different levels.

The reform real estate
developer having worked for

the Portman organization who's
a fine Georgia kick graduate.

John Foreman for I was there for
twenty three years and

spent a lot of time working on big complex
projects part of the work we do it.

C A P is to think about the community.

Not in today's terms but what is what
is really going to be relevant to us.

In the future and what is really going to
be relevant to those of you who are going

to be part of the Atlanta community in
part of other communities down the road.

The game kind of changed for
us as a community many times but

the last big game changer was
the creation of the Georgia Aquarium

when Bernie Marcus who probably
ought to be part of your show.

One day.

Hall of Fame or all of that.

This added to give the community.

What is now a four hundred
million dollar aquarium.

Those of us in the business community
thought well that you know out

of this that's that's an incredible
gift from one end of it.

But the real the real
challenge the community.

How do we capture that.

How do we leverage that gift.

How do we take advantage of
one man's real charity and

make it a gift that keeps on giving.

So there are a number of plans that when
a place our organization kind of led

the charge and we started thinking
in respect of what is it that

we have if you know you you live your now
and you probably visited the aquarium in.

The New World of Coca-Cola in the sea and
into and all these things that are.

Are tractions and.

But there's nothing that really stands
out in our mind is the heart and

soul of Atlanta and
that really if you look at our history

that really begin years ago become
unaided in the civil rights movement.

So there was always this feeling since
the fifty's and sixty's that the community

ought to do something more than what
we've done which is would be done a lot

in terms of Martin Luther King and over in
Auburn Avenue we have the King Center and

so forth but we really haven't
celebrated Atlanta's history in a way.

So long story short this ad Did been
around a long time that we should do

something but no one could quite grasp
what we did what we what we should do.

And I made the one.

I've only really made one big
contribution is project I found and

will tell his story but I was working as
a consultant in Boston Consulting Group.

We asked in the do some pro bono work for

us to try to figure out what's
the landscape out there.

What does the rest of the world look like.

And that's how we got started.

So Doug I'll let you join in
kind of take it from there and

we always go back and
give some color to it.

Sure.
Well I came to the land of the first time

to go to a small school across
the city called Emory and.

I majored in economics and
political science and

got very interested in issues of race and
ethnicity and gender and sexuality and

all of those identity issues and studied
them from a historical point of view and

one interesting class I took was
Robert Franklin who's now the president

Morehouse he was at that
time divinity professor.

And he was teaching a class he just wrote
a book about Martin Luther King Jr Malcolm

access theologians not
just a social leaders and

how their religious perspectives had
been a part of their social shrugs

I got very interested in that connection
religion and social movements.

Then I ended up going into banking for a
few years and being an analyst and so when

I when I decide to go back to grad school
I decided to do public policy in theology

and specifically theology around social
movements in various contexts Gandhi and

the other Indian leaders and their
religions American civil rights movement

in Buddhism in Southeast Asia and the way
it's interacting with environmentalism and

other sorts of issues like that and
then one thing led to another and

I ended up going to B.C.G.

for six years and doing absolutely nothing
that was pro bono or not for profit.

So I worked in all for profit industries
in Atlanta in New York in Mumbai India.

And basically A.J. And Mayor Shirley
Franklin had percolated this idea and

they called the firm and they said we need
somebody to provide some pro bono services

that knows something about museums or
civil rights history.

And the partner at the firm who got the
call said we know nothing about museums

and we have this one weird doc who know
something about civil rights history and

his name is Doug.

But he's white.

And you may know our Shirley Franklin
is yes the mayor Shirley Franklin is

African-American and she said I
don't care if you know something.

And he's free send him over and
so that's how it all started for

me in try and like any good consultant
trying to figure out what and

how to do this minute benchmarking So
the first thing we did is we went out and

looked at thirty five other
museums across the country.

Everything from the U.S.
Holocaust Museum in D.C. to.

The Lincoln Presidential Museum
in Springfield Illinois

to the Tenement Museum in New York in
the Harvard Ali Center in Louisville and

all these other facilities
that were either already up or

going to be built to figure out how
do you build one of these things and

what I meant initially learned and
immediately turned it A.J.

and he agreed with was that
the museum business is an oxymoron.

There is no such thing.

There are museums and there are businesses
and rarely do they ever meet in the middle

because most people who build a museum
have no idea about a business model and

most people who can build a business
model would never build a museum

because it's a loser.

And so
from the very beginning of this project.

We have been basically doing
two things one trying to create

an institution that will speak to
the legacy of civil rights in Atlanta and

in the country in a way that is relevant
for people who did not live through it.

So in essence people who were born
after the movement took place and

trying to do it in a way that is
sustainable from an economic perspective

which is incredibly difficult to do
not only in this environment but

in any environment when you're talking
about one of these institutions and so

that's really how we got started.

So it's two thousand and five.

Right right.
Just the brown then you know you start to

really this starts to percolate as you
mentioned the mayor was really behind this

you raise some initial seed capital
you start to put boards together.

You know you look at the you know this
thing my question hundred twenty five

million dollars to build and
what I thought would be invaluable for

both of you and maybe we can also show
some of this is to take people through

really the things that that that you
really needed to create in order for

this center to be a reality and
if what you don't know is there only about

a five million dollars away there they
raise about eighty million dollars and

then only about five million away
from there are groundbreaking So

I'm hoping before the end of the year.

That's going to happen and
I can tell you as a lifetime entrepreneur

these two leaders and entrepreneurs
are doing something that very.

If you can pull off.

There's a lot of people who come into town
with a lot of great ideas and eventually.

They don't make it but this one is going
to happen if you want to start with

I've got a picture actually you'll
recognize this of our esteemed blue ribbon

commission that we started with you
may want to strike with it my way

we'll start with this group and to get
to Mitch as QUESTION So Doug can but

came back from this
incredible benchmarking.

And said you know I got this
really bad news museums don't work

that you can't build a museum.

So that that kind of shook
everybody up for them.

What the heck we do now.

And we began this journey and
there were a group of us kind of community

leaders that we recruited and dug kind
of staffed and we were in around and

look at museums in particularly
Birmingham Cincinnati things that were

close to civil rights and
we did recognize that.

Yes these things exist and they're very
nice but they're kind of a one off thing.

And if we just built a museum
to part of Atlanta's history

fifty five to sixty five.

We were really good where you'd go
one time and you wouldn't go again.

So what we began was this.

What is the product.

What what can we do in Atlanta
that celebrated our past but

also talked about the future and
engage people about the future and

from our context having been here
most of my life is this to me is

really the opportunity for Atlanta and
this project is that we are bold enough to

be trying to do something that no one else
has done it's kind of like in the wake of

the Olympics no one ever thought we would
get the Olympics and no one ever thought

we'd get the biggest airport in
the world the most busiest airport.

No one thought that Coca-Cola
probably would be the most

worldwide recognized brand.

So we're kind of in this this kind of
game I mean this is a game changer for

the community and

what we're trying to do is we're trying
to celebrate the past but also may.

Make this about the present and
about the future for you for

your children your children's children
a place where people will come to Atlanta.

And talk about the issues that confront
the country in the world in a way

that they don't anymore we're right in the
shadows of C.N.N. We've got all the media

neck near nearby that we need
we have the biggest airport.

We have all the hospitality assets Atlanta
is a big convention town people come here

to talk about chickens and

about our you know about Dragon Con and
all these other things.

Why not come and really talk about
heavy subjects like human rights and

about civil rights and
that's that's what we're trying to do.

We're trying to launch something from
the Atlantis pass into the future and

that was the kind of what came out
of this group as we went around

a lot with Doug's urging of that that
we had to do something different now.

Mitch is Ari can graduate is
that we're already there.

What we have is a new idea.

We're not quite there yet.

This is something that we haven't
you know you built yet but

it resonates with people because it's
different it resonates that we're not

just building another museum because I
think we would fail to raise the money and

I think we would fail to capture
the imagination of people

that it was just another thing we really
are trying to do something that is

going to live all a long time so I'll turn
it back to you you know from a tactical

point of view if you think about this
is basically social entrepreneurship.

There are a few interesting things one
phrase if you ever get into something that

is about social entrepreneurship that
I would encourage you remember is

nobody loves your project
more than you do.

You will love your project the most
which means you'll also be

blinded by all of the good things and

ignore all of the bad things the most
which is the way it should be.

You're the one who has to sell it.

But you also have to temper
it the first thing we did.

After the benchmark is we built a.

Form a business model and

we basically challenge ourselves
with the following equation.

Most attract most of historical
institutions museums art museums

anything in that space.

Only produces forty percent of its
own operating revenue every year.

It has to raise sixty percent of
its operating revenue every year so

that means it's actually a fund
raising organization with a big asset

on its back that it's
trying to keep afloat.

Well none of us like that especially
the two of us who have come

out of the business world.

So we said can we actually
make the equation flipped.

Can we actually have seventy or

seventy five percent as a minimum of
our own revenues being produced for

operations and only raise twenty
five percent or less every year so

we built that pro-forma and every
decision that's followed from designed to

operations to staffing to everything
has to basically meet that equation.

And so it's led to some very
practical things about the design and

about the approach.

So it was a first thing we did
was build a business model.

The second thing we did
is we worked inside out.

So we actually worked on the story and
we worked on the product and

we worked on the content and

we worked on the elements of the facility
before we let an architect in Europe.

Typically in these situations
you get an architect.

You draw a picture you start raising
money and then you figure out

how it's going to work and
what ends up happening is it works badly.

It doesn't work very well for
what you actually want it but

you're stuck because everybody's given
you money for that specific design and

so we actually said what's the content.

We spent two years on that.

And then we actually had
the design competition and

we gave each of the architects of folder
about this large about two hundred pages

operating specifics content specific
physical attributes and along the way.

Coca-Cola had donated a piece of
land to us and that piece of land.

Happened to be right next to the aquarium
and the world of Coke and so

the aquarium is on the left on this slide
in the world of Coke is bottom right this

is called Pemberton place
dried in downtown Atlanta and

they have donated two and a half acres for
us to build and so we actually knew this.

We were going to build which also is
great because there are about four

million people that move through this
area every years we had a lot of people

outside the front door.

The other thing that happened is that
Shirley Franklin had led the purchase of

the Martin Luther King Jr Papers
collection which was a collection of fifty

thousand items related to Dr King's life
everything from the I Have A Dream speech

draft to his report card where he got a C.
plus in public speaking.

True story in graduate
school in public speaking.

Dr King got a C.

plus the really fun part of this story is
the other part of the there's another part

of the collection that is his note
card file from his entire life.

Dr King actually wrote one
thought down per note card and

would make his speech outlines by
organizing the note cards into

an outline writing the outline in
the making the speech he wasn't just

a blessed speaker he actually
worked extremely hard at it and

obviously he wasn't good at it when he was
young he had to work at it even harder.

So we gave all of this stuff to
the architects said you have to

build a building that will will basically
fulfill this practical vision and

this aspirational vision and about
half of the world class architects and

if I name some of them you'd
know them said no thank you.

I'm an artist.

I can't be bothered with all
this practical stuff and

they walked away which was exactly what
we wanted because we wanted a design that

actually was going to work for what was
going to be a sustainable institution.

And this indeed up being
that award winning design.

And it's basically two
buildings that overlap at

the end with a green roof
one wing exhibitions one

wing around a vent spaces in order to
allow it to be more than a museum.

And this was to the right
again in the World Cup's

the left this was what
won the competition but

then as we worked the business model
we figured out that this was too big.

It was too large and the operations
were going to cost too much long term.

How big was this that this was ninety The
little over ninety thousand square feet.

And would cost one hundred million
dollars to build this building.

So a big building.

And as we worked the math and
the board which serves on and

we had the discussion we said you know
what we can't make that equation of at

least seventy to seventy five percent of
our own revenues from operations work.

So we ended up going through
a redesign process and

evolution that actually
shrunk the building.

It may be the only time in history that a
museum project of any kind in any way has

ever shrunk itself.

Typically they get they go the other
direction because you love

your project more than anybody else does.

So you think it needs to be
bigger than it needs to be.

And so we ended up with this design which
is the design that will build which is

seventy thousand square feet little over
seventy thousand square feet similar kind

of a static similar kind of look but
much more efficient because the buildings

are now pushed together so you have
less wall space it's easier to heat and

cool it's easier to operate takes less
staff all the practical things but

it has the same spaces that we
had before save one which was

an auditorium space that we just didn't
think was going to make enough money and

so we basically scaled it back and
so I tell that evolution and

there are lots of stories like that
in this project that it's both

an aspirational emotional thing and
it's a very practical hard nose

making tradeoffs because you're building
a business asset kind of thing.

And so we've been going back and
forth the whole time between those two.

Well I take it.

Brings up a natural question and
you kind of have led into it in.

As I mentioned briefly they
started in two thousand and five.

So here we are in two thousand and
eleven six years later and

they're getting real close.

Maybe you could share some of
the really big obstacles that you have

had to overcome other than that because
one things about a thing about being

an entrepreneur is it's full of challenges
and the more you are in on this journey.

The more you realize sometimes
that it happens for the better and

that these things that seem like major
problems can actually be gifts but

when you're in the middle of it.

They might not.

The gifts so I love for
them to be able to hear and

learn some of these key things
aging let me just add a couple and

then Doug's got a lot of war
stories that you can relate but.

In a project like this is you can see
it's in the shadows of the aquarium so

what makes that seventy
percent work is that.

That aquarium has at that.

Even now two to two and
a half million visitors a year.

So if we're able to just get some
of those folks to walk next door

that seventy percent becomes real
this project probably is not possible

that model is not possible without
something like the aquarium and

that's why we never were able to
build it in the last forty years but

now we have this big engine so I just
want to point that out to people but

in you need to think of this project of
what's in Atlanta in some of the things

we've overcome is that a lot of people
have a hard time understanding it.

And so the way you tell it is this.

This.

This is about again the heart and soul the
line of It's a hospitality product it's

a product that you want people to come and
visit you.

You travel around the US
there's to you but

to all of these cities one is Los Vegas
which is famous for gambling obviously as

it's a lot of people come in for
that one thing in the other is Orlando.

Both cities have over one hundred thousand
hotel rooms both cities have this huge

engine Mickey Mouse all the entertainment
Orlando gamely then you have the iconic

cities of North America old cities that
people like to visit Chicago San Francisco

natural beauty New York of course
Boston history beautiful old buildings.

And then you've got everybody else.

So what we have here in Atlanta.

Not a whole lot we don't have a river.

That goes through the middle
of a city we having

credible meeting space we
get incredible airport.

So what we are quickly becoming known for
and

one of the things that helped
sell this project is we have some

of the newest attractions the aquarium
the New World of Coca-Cola.

The scene into or believe it or
not we have a new children's museum.

So we're beginning we have this
kind of eclectic mix of ask.

So one of the first challenges we had was

how are you going to put it over here
in the middle of a fish in sugar water.

I mean this is this is a really important
subject heavy subject civil and

human rights how does that work and you
know we kind of shrug our shoulders and

say well it works because
it's a different experience.

It's like having you
all are all too young.

We're used to A B. C. D. ticket and the D.
take was always the good.

You know you always saved up
your the tickets or whatever.

What I mean this is this is a different
experience is maybe in a ticket but

we think that families particularly we
think of people who are coming here for

reunions a lot of reunion business
in Atlanta family experience

that this is a little different.

So maybe one day you
go to the aquarium and

the next day you have a more
interesting year but so

one of the first challenges is you guys
got to be crazy put in over there.

Well that's exactly why we want to put
it over there is is it is this a second

challenge is this is this
gap between what is it if

it's not a museum then what a lot of
people is Doug said you know the museum

model gets copied time after time
after time and it doesn't work and

it struggles and people struggle in there
always lead their hand out for money.

We're trying not to be that we're trying
to look at this thing as a real business

model for so but
people don't understand it.

So when you go to talk to
funders they want to know.

Well which you know you tell me something
that it's going to be like so that I

understand well you know I mean the point
to so getting people over this idea and

then you have people because of the museum
business who have funded museums

over time and lost money you have
to explain why it's not amused.

You know lost money in this sort of if is
it like a museum of disillusionment money

again you're never going to make it and
a great example here from years before.

You all are on the scene the firm by
Museum have maybe been burned by go over

there and in over off of Ponce
over there from bank opened.

It's a wonderful museum beautiful facility
opened in the late eighty's early ninety's

and was a lot of money was borrowed
heavily in debt from day one

in it up banks taking a big bath on it and
a lot of people got burned in Atlanta.

Well that experience has haunted us in the
community trying to build any asset for

many years.

So why are you not going to be like firm.

I mean all these all this track
record of failed experience so

these are the common
issues of any entrepreneur

convincing someone that their product and
their passion is worth it.

I think in the end it's a you
know it's a long journey.

You have to convince people that you.

You know what you're doing you have to
make the business case that this is

important asset to add into the collection
of what Atlanta has to offer.

It's not it's not sugar water and
it's not fish.

It's something that really represents the
heart and soul of people what the history

of Atlanta is and what it can be in
the future and again trying to play

into people's imagination that these
it's taking advantage of all the other

assets that we have here whether that be
in the hospitality community airport.

So what other war stories.

Elected.

Well there are a couple of them.

I think that one thing that Shirley
Franklin said to be very early on and

she said this is just like
a political campaign in that you're

going to have to tell the same story
with enthusiasm about ten million times.

And literally the same story she
told a story she was on a community

project east of the east like Project
which you may know little about they

redid the east like golf course
transform the old neighborhood.

She told the story that she had
one laminated cardboard sign

that explained the project and
she would take that sign around to.

Community meetings for two years and
she wouldn't replace the sign

it became tattered and torn and
I said why didn't you replace it.

She said.
So everyone would know that I

wasn't changing my story.

Because they saw that I
had used the same sign for

two years you get when you're selling
something like this it doesn't exist.

You have to have the enthusiasm and

the energy to know that
every person you talk to.

It's their first time though
it's year two thousand and

that takes a lot of work and it takes
practice actually to be able to do

that with the same sort of integrity and
enthusiasm each time.

Second thing is this is sort
of like evolving a brand

that everybody thinks they know and
they really don't.

So it's sort of like if if you took
some old brand like Hezzy you know

the Pez dispensers you know
that can be in the head on top.

It's like if you took something like that
everybody thinks that they know what it is

and then you want to evolve into
something else if I say civil rights.

You're probably going to say Dr King
African-American freedom maybe going to

say Selma maybe going to say
say the I Have A Dream speech.

And that's a small part of what we're
doing but no hardly anybody in this room

actually lived through the time
period looking around.

How many of you were born after one nine
hundred seventy just raise your hand and

almost every room means none of you know
this history from a personal perspective.

So we've got to take something that people
think they know a little bit about and

evolve it into something that's
relevant and different and

that's a challenge the third is in you
know we have to touch on the economy

because if I don't somebody will
talk about it in this environment.

People want to be the last
money into a project and

I think that's true in a business
perspective or in a not for profit

perspective they want to be in because
they think their safety in numbers.

Well if A.J. gave to it.

He knows more than I do.

He's a smart guy.

It must be viable.

If he gave to it and

the other is they're trying to to
mitigate risk of a of a market downturn.

Because so many people who
are philanthropic or so many foundations

are basing it off of equities that
they hold in the assets they hold.

So instead of saying I'll give
it to you over two years.

They want to give it to you
over four years over five years

a very practical standpoint you've
got to manage the cash flow.

Because once we start the building it
will only take two years to build it and

the number one thing that kills any
cultural institution is long term debt.

You'll never get out of the debt that
you have on the project at first.

So you've got to manage the cash flow
without creating a long term debt

situation and that's that's a challenge
that you just have to figure out.

No shortage of challenges and
one of the things.

Hopefully you can sense and you can feel
and that is a both of their passion for

this and you know we talk a lot
about that that we're But

you know you hear it over and
over and over again.

You know you heard it in that this
very famous Stanford speech by

the late Steve Jobs.

You know it is about passion and
passion first and

never never giving up because
you're going to have no shortage of

the tractors telling you why
you can't do anything and

it was not by luck that I came up with the
title turning your dreams into reality.

And in this case a really large one that.

You know to some extent blows my
mind only from the vantage point of

knowing what it takes to do this and
you are at the homestretch so

but I think one of the things to
talk about economic development and

a lot of what goes on in the classroom is
about leadership and entrepreneurship.

So A.J. Maybe I'll start with you maybe
could talk a little bit from your vantage

point what do you think makes a really
you know a really good leader.

Forget about a great leader.

Well I think.

Passion obviously is a is a great word.

I'm learning more and
more about leadership and

in a community setting as
oppose a business setting.

That courage is really
important I think we live

in an era that there's not a whole
lot of political courage courage.

There's a lot of courage elsewhere but.

It may.

Standing up for something.

And in leading in away and trying to
move people from here to there or

from a point in a business
to me here is not easy.

And there's financial risk personal risk.

The fear of failure is you know and

is always on everybody's mind
that you've got to be willing to.

To fail a few times and
be criticized a few times.

If you really believe
in what you're doing.

You're going to somebody is
going to be upset and sure you.

But that shouldn't that's kind of
a you have to expect that and I think.

In leadership today particularly in
the world we're in where things don't

seem seem right that we've just seen that
nothing seems to be going right on the on

any level particularly in the economic
world and courage is a big is a big thing

obviously leading by
example being enthusiastic.

You know there's that famous showing
most of life is just showing up for

whatever it is that I think that we're
getting word that Woody Allen quote Yeah I

hate to tell you but just working hard
is as a sign of leadership today and

will in the role of your sleaze and
and and and

just you know spend the time and effort
in not expecting something coming to you.

I can assure you it in coming to
you if you're going to be a leader.

You've got to go out there and

capture whatever you want to whatever you
want to do a leader is going to think.

Not for today but down the road looking
where it where we're going to want to

go where I want to take people what I want
to do with my life you need to kind of set

those goals way out there and and stick
to him because there is no short term

people that tell you they can do something
or should you know Steve Jobs didn't

accomplish some overnight or in no one
does even though that the media tends to

think people do most people who
who are successful in any endeavor

spend a lot of time working at a couple.

That I think are important one is
the ability to tell a good story.

And to tell it what maybe Monday things
through examples or analogies or

stories one because they're often more
memorable people will be able to say

I remember that guy he told that great
story about as opposed to here were his

facts and figures the other is story
is inherently emotional it has

an arc it taps into certain
things a personal things and

so being able to tell a story is often
a much better way of communicating than

trying to lead and then just
laying out the facts and figures.

The second is I have a phrase that
all fund raising a psychology.

And what I mean by that is getting
somebody to give you their

financial support means that they're
actually meeting one of their needs

through the thing that
they're giving to you.

It may be the need to be known.

It may be the need to support
something for their kids.

It may be the need to to build on the
legacy that they feel from their parents.

It may be because they
need a tax deduction and

they want to give you a check and

that's fine too but it's something
that's not just about the merits.

In business is often about selling
the merits I've got certain capital I've

got to deploy it what's
the return what's the risk.

I can make that an equation.

I can assure you that in
the social entrepreneur space.

It's that plus an emotional piece.

And you have to understand what's the
emotional piece that that person has what

is it that really gets them charge and
how do you tap into it and

I think real leadership has to
hit somebody both head and heart.

It has to do both for
them to actually commit to mitigating risk

to ignoring it to having courage all
of those things are emotions though or

they have an emotional base for someone
not just the the person who's leaving but

also for the person who's in
essence buying into it and

the third thing I would say is is remember
that people people really want leadership

but they have different things in
their lives that they want to.

Or ship around and they want different
kinds of people to fulfill them.

If you're if you're religious Your whoever
you are you get religious counsel from is

probably a very different kind of person
than who you get your medical care from

probably a very different person than
who you want your business advice

from is probably a very different person
than you want to take care of your kids.

Those are different kinds of leadership
and so part of being a leader.

Is understanding who you
are comfortable in your own skin and

then matching your style with
what it is that you're asking.

Right.
So if I came up here and

only did facts and
figures I gave me a lot of facts and

figures but if I only gave you facts and
figures without some sort of passion.

You probably would say well that guy's
probably mismatched to do this project he

should be over doing the accounting for

some you know real estate
development no if and.

And so I think leadership you
have to be self-aware enough to

know what it how are people going
to see me I'll give you one story.

When I first got on this project
as you might realize like

I said before I'm white.

I'm also young.

Relatively speaking.

So as I got to know the civil
rights icons and the young

John Lewis Evelyn Lowery with me to
Abernathy the king kids all of the folks

who I had studied almost all of them would
give me some sort of test in that they

would ask me trivia about the movement and
specifically about their life.

Well where did it when did I get to Selma.

What was my role in Birmingham are these
kinds of questions because they wanted

to see who exactly why I was there and
did I really know what I was doing and so

I passed the test because I actually
know a lot of us who writes history and

then they started asking me things they
had forgotten because they actually

wanted to remember some other things and
they're like well I forgot what I went and

I do this and could you.

Doesn't want is that day and
blah blah blah.

And so it was quite funny that in part
my credibility was built on some sort of

knowledge base but then once it was built
the relationship was completely different.

And that's just one example of me not
being offended by the question right.

If I.
When I said I can't believe A.J.

can you believe they're asking me this
question and they don't think I can

do it and they think I'm too young and
I'm not going to stand this anymore.

I would have actually built personal
relationships with these with all of these

folks who are wonderful
supporters of the project.

So again it's being comfortable
in your own skin and

being honest about what is it that
you're going to be asked to do and

how are people going
to perceive you would.

And this being a leader.

And also which I think came through
loud and clear from last week

is moral courage and the ability to really
stand up for something you believe in and

not being afraid of sharing add and
maybe not being loved.

But you know in your heart of
hearts that you're right and

I think that holds very true here.

I think also one of the things that
I find fascinating with big ideas and

this is a really big idea is you
don't build anything great alone and

I know one of the things you
talk about is collaboration and

I thought this we start to wrap up and
then we're going to go to questions here

is maybe talk a little bit about
partnerships and collaboration and

you know how you found partners and
so on and so forth.

So Doug will start with you.

I'll take the structural and then you can
take the some of the more insider I mean.

Structurally we said OK how does
this function in collaboration

with other institutions that
care about similar human rights.

So one is around whether or
not we collect stuff.

So we're going to collect stuff in on it
or we're going to partner with people who

have stuff we decided the latter
actually is more cost effective and

it doesn't create competition with
other universities and museums and

institutions that have archives.

So we said you know what we're
going to be an exhibition facility

somebody else is going to own the stuff.

The King papers are owned by
Morehouse College we display them for

the public that kind of partnership
model lots of those exist.

Second is we decided that we wouldn't
be for specialists we would be for

the public and we would bring specialists
to the public that we in essence we would

collaborate with people
on the front lines.

Who wouldn't try to do.

What Amnesty International or Human Rights
First or any of those organizations

do what we would highlight what they
do for people who really don't know.

And so we disaggregate it and so even
tonight we have a partnership with C.N.N.

and we do what's called C.N.N. dialogues
and we bring national speakers on topics

to Atlanta and then broadcast
it nationally internationally.

So we partnered in that way.

So we would be a platform for them and

then find we finally we basically said
you know if you really think about it.

We're not competing against
other cultural institutions or

other entities that talk about civil and
human rights.

We're really competing
against playing we hang

out on Facebook going to
Six Flags going to a movie.

We actually want more brain time
around these issues and so we should

be collaborating with all of the folks
who people think are our competitors.

So we've done a lot of joint programs
with places in Birmingham and

Memphis with the Auburn Avenue research
library with the King Center with

the Carter Library all of these
institutions that you might think on its

face were actually splitting the small
pod but in fact we actually are so

little thought of relatively speaking
that we all work best in collaboration.

And in your right you can't do anything
good that you know Hillary Clinton

said takes a village right I mean you have
to you have to collaborate particularly at

its core a project like this is a real
estate project and real estate projects

involve all types of collaboration
between creative people hard

nosed guys who build things people who
operate things vendors who provide things.

So it's one big massive collaboration or
project management model that you have.

And in that it is at its
core though in terms of how

you do this you have to do one thing
you control as an entrepreneur is your

is your reputation and that's what.

It's going to get people don't.

And Doug may differ with me on this
people don't give the causes that much

they really give to people and they give
Pete to people who they think are going to

be good stewards of a particular cause and
or of or a business.

They have confidence that Mitchell
go make a whole lot of money.

It's not to say that he did
understand the idea but

they know his reputation they
know that he's credible.

So what we've tried to do is surround
ourselves in this project with credible

people in different areas we've tried to
populate our board of directors with Nash

some national folks who are very familiar
with the human rights side of things

we tried to get folks who are historians
involved we've had folks who

are off of big business boards you know
people and who have money and means so

you're always in a collaboration
looking for associations in a project

like this that really get down the
reputation they can help help your cause.

And again they have to
care about your cause.

Obviously but you want to collaborate
with folks who you think will add to

the to the mixing bowl that will end up
in your project and make it better so

and that doesn't.

And that applies to any project or
any business that you want to you you

want to enhance your your product with as
much credibility around it as you as you

can you know just to put a fine point on
that you'd rather have an eighty minute B.

idea than a B. team and a idea.

Every single time.

And that's what we've tried to do what
we've tried at a team and a idea but

certainly a TEAM IS WHAT YOU DON'T WANT A
N C No player anybody's OK That's right.

Well many times you hear management
management management and

you know you could imagine
them in front of investors and

the people that they're with and
as I said a little bit earlier

eighty million dollars there so
far and I don't believe in.

So that was hasn't been luck.

It's been doing a lot of the things
that you learned today we're going to

get ready to take some questions but I
have just one more quickly thirty seconds.

Doug will go to you and
then A.J. what's next.

Now what's going on now.

What's next is basically two
things is fairly simple one is

continuing to to raise the money and put
the financial picture in place of that you

can in essence cash flow the construction
and the opening of the center and

the other is to move through
the real estate side of it.

A.J. point you move through the design
stages then you move through

the construction stages in a way
that actually open up the facility

that you envisioned the third piece that
we're doing our programs already that

are mission oriented that highlight what
it is that will do in spades once we

actually open the facility and
so basically we'll break ground

it'll take twenty four months to build
will ramp up the organization over those

twenty four months and build the physical
center and then when it opens already have

the programs in the collaboration is
in place to launch very very quickly so

that we're not only getting
the visitors in the door but

we're also having the collaboration's to
the programs in the event of the broadcast

and everything else that we
need to do to be successful.

And I'm doing whatever Doug tells how
this is what you SHOULD I will tell

you that we've all you know I don't
want to say that this is a done deal but

we've already been thinking OK what
what what are we going to be doing next.

I mean because if you think of our cycle
here we're in our sixth year we haven't

even broken ground where you actually
start to think about what what.

How do we leverage this
once we get it open.

So we're starting to think about.

OK let's think about six years from

now what are what are we going to be
ready to do at that particular point.

Now but we do need one thing about it.

We do need to finish this project
in a couple of others first.

But you do think about the assets
they were building and

what what's next for us and

we because you do need to think it takes a
long time and you've got to stick with it.

Well hopefully you have enjoyed just self
as much as I have my own ways of learning.

From that their journeys obviously
two very bright experienced

individuals both also were graduates
of Harvard and you can see that.

As I mentioned I don't believe
it's luck they've gotten this far.

So we really want to thank you for
coming today and sharing this and

as I mentioned turning
dreams into reality and

very few people are able to pull it
off and we're fortunate that you came.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Write and let's go let's go with
the questions before they want

to leave these are the ones I fear
the most the really smart questions.

They'll be shy.

Can you hear me.

Yes.
My name's Kristen thank you for

being here today and

I was just going to ask a question
more about the content of the center.

I'm specifically the human rights side and
I was wondering if that basic

human right to life will have a platform
in your center as you may know

Dr I'll be taking me said Dr King is
very outspoken pro-life activists.

So I was just wondering if that's
going to have a place in your center.

So that in essence that the exhibition and
the program Matic side of the center

basically has a civil rights American
civil rights component which is historical

and a contemporary human rights
component which is based on

the Universal Declaration of Human Rights
Universal Declaration of Human Rights

was written in the wake of World War two
a lawyer Roosevelt led the effort to

in essence write a declaration of
rights for everybody in the world.

And life is one of the others.

So.

It was so right.

It will be our very own right.

Might be the battery next question.

Let me ask quick with what
we're moving next to the.

If you're going to be in a collaboration
or connection with or with a quarter or so

her seem to me like it's a very natural
law for today for that because he's

really focused like a train

so necessary to think about
somebody coming to this is

my comfort to do you think about
us being an entry point for

a lot of people in this topic then if they
want to become more active or they want

to go deeper on King as a person they
would go to the King Center Carter Center

from the Carter biography perspective
same issue if you want to understand

Jimmy Carter the Carter Center tries to
make societal change democracy disease

eradication those types of issues and so
we will basically collaborate with them

in bringing the people who they
work with to the public and so

there are a lot of programs that we can
do and collaboration with both of those

institutions and I would just say most
great cities that are cultural have

multiple institutions around their topic
Philadelphia has about six things around

the Constitution Boston has about twenty
two things around the Revolutionary War.

You know how many jazz clubs
are there in New Orleans doesn't.

So it is not that you only need one.

We need multiple institutions that
talk about these issues from multiple

perspectives to make Atlanta
that one place to go and not.

I might just add in part
a collaboration but part of

what we're doing from a public sector
standpoint is we're building a street car.

That links the King Center to
Centennial Olympic Park and ultimately to

the Center for Civil and Human Rights
we're trying to take all the energy that.

And all the folks that come to
the Centennial Olympic Park and

move them in a minute and
much more efficient way than we have

over the King Center and
to the Auburn Avenue historic or.

One hopefully will again leverage
revitalization of that area.

So there is a grandiose
plan that is will also

take place over these next couple years in
terms of transportation infrastructure.

You know what I thought
it might be interesting.

Just real quickly is maybe even talk about
in turn ships and things where you know

you're looking to collaborate with with
colleges in Georgia Tech and so on and so

forth because I'd love to open that
opportunity to the students here when

there are lots of different aspects in
which we we've already had internships and

we will continue.

One is around a little a lot of technology
infrastructure there a lot of interactive

a lot of technology pieces
virtual realities that will have

in the exhibitions.

There's a lot of archiving and
historical work and

research that obviously can be
done there are folks who we've had

in terms who are just interested
in the business side of this.

So how do you think about fundraising How
do you think about a savage a not for

profit How do you think about
running it and then And

then finally there are internships that we
have around the communication side because

in some ways we are a communications
portal around these issues we have very

private website we have several blogs
we do a lot of social media and

we've had in turns around that as well.

So there are several different ways and
those will scale up even further.

We typically have one to two to any one
time those of scale up to be in the in

the half dozen to a dozen it in the one
time when the center opens next question.

So I really like the concept of a museum

that it's simple to depend
in on just donations.

But what kind of revenue streams you
going to get that's different than

a regular museum.

So the typical ones are you have
your you have your tickets.

You have people who buy tickets to
come in museum you have a retail arm.

You can leverage up your event and
programming revenue.

So either rentals or programs that

you do the aquarium is the probably
the best model of this in Atlanta.

They make an enormous amount of
revenue from their event spaces and

their rentals they really transform
that from a business perspective.

Then there is something we've
discovered there are court.

Not for profits they don't just want to
rent the facility they actually want you

to almost be there outsource
training arm around these issues.

And so there's an untracked revenue
stream because of our topic for

corporations especially that want
to talk about supplier issues labor

issues environmental issues
diversity issues a chart issues but

they don't want to do it in a hotel and
they don't want to do it in

their own corporate office they want to do
it someplace special and meaningful and so

that's actually going to be a revenue
stream we discovered along the way

that that I think is actually going to be
probably our second highest revenue stream

behind the tickets and
then finally we have a broadcast facility.

So we will have a live two shot
broadcast studio that will allow

us to do broadcast but also rent that for
various kinds of things.

There's a place called the Newseum in D.C.
museum of news they have two broadcast

studios and they make a very healthy
revenue off of that off of that endeavor.

Tape brings up also a really
interesting point and

that is many times entrepreneurs see
a need in the market and they go and

fill it or they believe so and then the
market tells them what they really want.

And many times when the market
tells you what it wants.

It's very different than your original
idea now in this case obviously

the majority of the things that they've
been vision I believe will become reality.

But there's a great example
of that that you know

with all the planning and all right.

The Harvard the greens and
all the people around us.

It falls on a box called
Who would have thunk it.

And that who would have
thunk it many times and.

Really be in the grand slam
a few more questions and

then want to wrap it up with
love to take your questions.

And I can relate touch upon your ship and
other things as well.

My name is Jerry a fourth year
chemical engineering major here when

all my question was Mayor Franklin
as you mentioned earlier is that you

know getting a project like this is
almost like running a campaign and

you know maintaining that passing over
a six year period can be kind of difficult

to do especially as students we may not.

Have the foresight to say for
the next six years we're going to be

working on this one project to
try to bring It's information.

So how did you stay motivated.

How did you keep your enthusiasm
over the six year period.

First of all Shirley Franklin
said Just give me a year.

That's how it started.

OK So the first thing she lies.

OK that's that's the first way that.

And I'd be interested in your point and
point of view.

A.J. because you work on things
that also long term for me.

One it's about taking some.

Taking some energy from the small wins.

So you basically have to put some
interim milestones in place and

you have to celebrate those and not just
think about the huge thing that you're

trying to pull off and so I think that's
one of the other is work hard rest hard.

I mean I don't miss vacations.

I work at a lot of hours.

But if it's a vacation week it's vacation
week and there are some days that if

it's a Thursday afternoon and
I really need a beer and it's been tough.

I go have a beer because I personally
think that I would rather be

working at one hundred percent for

fifty hours a week than at sixty or
seventy percent for eighty.

I used to tell my B.C.G. teams.

Anybody can solve
a problem on eighty hours.

I want you to try to solve it on fifty
because you have a more elegant solution.

And I so I think that there's something
about maintaining your passion is also

about knowing when you need to pull it
back or when you need to change topics or

when you need to change the way
you're approaching a little bit.

And I would agree I think in any
everybody's different everybody's

made up different.

I think you'll find it is that any
entrepreneur has this kind of.

Stick with it.

Attitude.

You know I work on a project and.

In Shanghai before China
was cool from the one

nine hundred eighty to two thousand and
three.

It took us ten years to put it together
because three years in the middle are kind

of in square issues and where I'm not.

We're not even halfway here with
this little project that was.

And now it's operating but
you know you have to really look.

Something captures your imagination for
me this is not a you know

this is in most entrepreneurs the business
is different you know you look at it you

may be wanting to make money somewhere
there's a lot of psychic reward here.

I mean I for us for me is a community
leader getting this done is a passion and

this stick with it is that says
I We also have another couple other

set of things we're trying to work
on like you know world peace and.

World hunger and things like that
that are easy but now I mean we do.

Everybody.

He's on this you know hundred percent.

I'm not one hundred percent anymore so

I've got other issues that are occupying
my day but I've got a special.

Special job to do to make sure this
thing sticks or any Mainly it's about

the psychic reward that the community is
going to be better off for us doing this.

I also think based on experience of
entrepreneurs that I've known and

worked with over the decades.

You know.

Now when they like to leave a legacy.

They like to leave something
knowing that you've come to this.

You've left this place better
than when you came into it and

I think Doug said something well and

metaphorically I the journey of
an entrepreneur is not a marathon.

It's a triathlon.

And it's probably more
like the Iron Man and

I share that only because the reality
is that you need to patient self.

Don't get too high when
the highs are high.

You don't get to lows when the lows a low
and maybe more importantly is to be around

the people that are cheering you on and
many times those of the people at home to.

Hi my name.

Sarah Collins I'm a fourth year
Business Administration student and

I know you mentioned a potential
partnership between George

attacking the center with
relation to internships.

I was wondering if you were planning or
honey plans for a partnership such as

the one that would detect has with your
part center and with you claim every year

to open the doors to college
students by eliminating barriers is.

It would take it costs so that we can read
about the educational benefits excuse me

benefits without having the I guess
college student problem with thanks and

take it you know I see they
don't have any money yet.

Yeah that's right.

I know I got a raise.

I see a lot of beer and stuff.

Well there's a bigger question here and

there which is how do you think
about center for civil and

human rights and access given the reality
that we are a ticket model right.

It's not for every day.

So what we've done is in the business
model initially again we built in one free

day a month or it could be split into
two hath three days a month and we

said look we have to to keep that and we
don't know how we'll deploy it sometimes.

Or maybe college students sometimes it may
be kids sometimes it may be Fulton County

residents I mean there's lots
of ways you can do that but

we basically built in a free component so
that we could do and

reach out to folks who couldn't
afford the ticket price.

The other is foundations actually
usually don't give operating.

Support to these kinds of
institutions except for tickets for

certain populations.

So certain institutions have been quite
successful in getting foundations to give

a certain number of tickets funded every
year and then it's up to the institution

in essence to distribute those so
those are the ways that will address that.

Let's look down three four
years here open a year or two.

How do you measure success.

What are the net metrics of social and
economic return on investment.

Well you know we have this interesting and

since we're that I don't know if you've
been following these last couple weeks

that all these awarding of the Nobel
Prizes but I get I had this dream early

on that we will know success that
if they view the prizes given.

And then the next day we
have the Nobel winners on.

On some subject.

Maybe Peace Prize stead of economics or
it could be and

they are making a speech kind of the in
our facility and C.N.N. is covering it.

So that's going to be a success if we

if we are able to accomplish
that it would have hit

all the things I've been talking about of
making the land irrelevant in the future.

I think again part of what

there's different ways to judge this
project in terms of success part of it is

just getting the story told about
the history of this era in Atlanta.

It's history for me this is really of
we will be judged by whether or not.

We're able to can provide a place
that convenes of people around

the future conversation and that we're
able to get people to think I got to

go to Atlanta because I know that I can
talk to people there about a particular

thing that's going on in the world and
if we begin to get that kind of buzz

about this place then I think we would
have accomplished something that

we really want to do we never
thought we really could do it.

Just think of how the world changed in the
last six eight months of all the issues in

the in the Middle East if
we had been open today and

had a microphone in a media center and
all those people commenting people

coming on a daily basis to dinner
with students in Cairo or wherever.

And we would be tracking the progress
of what's going on in the human rights

things around the world on
a big board in our project.

I mean that's a place that
we would say would be sex so

it's hard to kind of put a metric
on a financial success yet.

Doug will tell you that as long as we
don't have our any money going forward or

something like that but to me it's much
more about the feeling of this place that

we created something that made it
land a special place to visit and

this project being representative
of what Atlanta has to.

Offer to the world.

And that's I'm not quite sure how
we're going to judge that yet but

for me personally.

That's how we would.

From a couple from I agree with
those from my perspective.

If we have hit the seventy five percent or
greater operate the revenue from

road operations that will be a huge
success and that means that it will be

taught as a business school case because
it will be such an anomaly in the field.

If it has the multiplier effect of
bringing conferences that would not have

otherwise come to Atlanta because it
exists if it has the multiplier effect

of people wanting to hold meetings
here because it exists and

they wouldn't have otherwise
then I think it's a success.

And I think the other is an Alevi
with this very interesting thing

that we discovered long way the Holocaust
Museum in D.C. How many of you have been

there just regime in the Holocaust Museum
in D.C. sixty seventy percent.

When it was first built the the folks
who built it figured that there would

be a majority of their visitors
would be jewish early on but

they did the math and they figured that
they couldn't sustain the numbers they

would want to over time because either
every Jew in the U.S. would have to come.

Basically two or three times a year
because there aren't that many Jewish

folks or
they would have to change the proportion.

So as they designed the entire
storytelling they made ways in which non

jewish folks non folks who went through or
were to non Europeans could make the story

relevant to them and now they when they
opened up there there are those are ship

was over eighty percent Jewish and now
it's less than fifteen percent Jewish and

there are very few people now who
are alive who even remember the period.

We have to do the same thing.

This will be oversubscribed
by folks who are older and

folks who are African-American.

And if we can over time see our per
our population be incredibly diverse

then we will be successful because we
will be having the conversations as A.J.

is talking about and we will have made
this relevant to people who really.

I don't have any personal affiliation
with it in the traditional sense.

It's great.

Yeah I.

It's more than a great story.

I think.

This idea creation is going
to make a huge difference for

society and for Atlanta and.

I'm trying not to embarrass them
because I really do not there yet but.

I can tell you if you take a look.

Some of the handouts you'll see is over
ten years ago I came up with the idea for

the first ever entrepreneurs Hall of Fame.

And I started online always with a vision
of building a physical facility.

But I was running a business and
it's hard to run a business and

do something this big.

I'm not a big proponent of dabbling.

And I've been given the gift of
being able to focus on this and

probably the greatest
gift is that both A.J.

and Doug have been kind enough to
not only join our advisory board.

But their experiences are invaluable
I'm listening to them.

I'm learning from them
even to the vantage point.

I still remember the first day.

A.J. didn't know it.

We don't know each other at all and
he said Mitch can I really talk openly and

I said hey I I I love good open candor and
he made a very strong case for the facts.

Why he thought Hall of Fame
was not right anymore and

the name the name all the name
that not what it was going to do.

And literally you know you're really
hearing in the last month we've come up

with a new name for the epicenter.

E standing for entrepreneurship
piece standing for philanthropy and

I standing for innovation and having
it be the home of the entrepreneur or

hall of fame so I share this with
you is I am where they were five or

six years ago and I have them in my goal
is to bring this to Atlanta as well and

to be another one of these facilities and
hopefully you'll come along for

the ride help me as well
thank you everyone.

Thank you thank you.