[00:00:05]
>> I agree but I think Welcome to our 2nd Ira seminar master we know a lot of your ph d. students are probably wrapping up and got a half not to exceed a lot of the student debt all of the spring and looking for jobs are too needy and therefore we get this semester towards discussions on careers and so this seminar today that is.

[00:00:26]
Why certain members of our Georgia Tech community and outside a community chosen the careers they did it's going to be a little bit are the aphrodisiac heavy but for reasons we're going to have fall off on our adversary what Gary Murray pleading for our industry and with all of us to go from Amazon Don't worry we'll also get industry focused but even if that are today we created the experience because we had all that together.

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And it's often added over to have for the rest of it but I also want to I think the interesting part of the discussion for all of the students here and we encourage you to be very active participating in this is the questions that we're looking for to have a free flowing.

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You know where you. Start with a foot fly set the stage and then I'm going to pack it to our panelists to give a little background and then we'll act over to today so you have questions as we as we talk you can put them. Either in the q. and a or the jagoff I am and I have played.

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A few unable to but the minute you say. They don't even know them and then after that gushes across the panel I'll. Let me just set the stage a little bit and try to discuss what we're going to talk about today so we had a panel last semester a number of you might have been on that call where we talked about finding faculty position to provide the next panel discussion we focused on and in fact positions in each of the above or one research universities across the u.s. and that's going to be sort of our main focus today as we compare the traffic academia with industry and I think it's important to put them.

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In particular we're not going to talk about undergraduate only institutions if you just focus in decision that is that this is a great. Little bit different I think than what what are you know how about. We also talk about other academic careers aside and in fact issues like in your practitioner but there's other considerations that you come into play if you're trying to buy.

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Their choice and by and large I think what we're going to talk about today for universities is going to apply only to us universities and we will have much to think I know you know sit outside. On the industry side based on what I think what I representation is on a panel.

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We're going to be focusing on careers that require each piece in industry I'm just some examples of these and they do something different categories some examples of these categories are things like labs and institutions that are associated with universities for example the project Research Institute Of course. Federal labs and Asians e such as the chip or Chanel force and other other examples.

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And I have already started and then there's larger companies like Facebook maybe each of these categories has their own basis and disadvantages and I think will help them a little bit. So so that's where we want to lay the groundwork for this so I want to stop sharing out and give us an opportunity to introduce our panel.

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So. I'm mostly to moderate today but I'll briefly describe sort of my experience in academia and industry so I but it's a professor here I have a joint employment electrical engineering and Civil Environmental Engineering I've been a faculty member at Georgia 2nd team and before coming to Georgia Tech I was.

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U.c.l.a. my industry experience is a bit limited as would be the case for a couple other numbers here but but I did I have I have had a little bit of experience so in my undergraduate days when I was undergraduate at the tech I spent a number of measures stopping at their eye but I could see some of that.

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Fire but I also spent a summer as a grad student at the Jet Propulsion Lab. And. Then about 6 months. Working at a start a company as a spinoff of some research work at Berkeley that was focused on making that just attractive work but a little bit it's been a little bit limited but I think some of these different environments.

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A little bit about what I'd like to do now that like just to go around for analysts to have each of our panelists talk a little bit about their background as well. So if we can start with for a slice to show a little bit on they're. All right to.

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Put myself in the corner here. So I can show the slides. Or detect things to tell one. And I'm still a very tech so I but I took a break and so I'll talk about my grades but at Georgia Tech University work with Factor graphs and I'm an evangelist meaning.

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Factories are awesome for status relations land and even motion planning and control and it's it's actually you 2 factor Ras and their application to all these different problems that I got the opportunity to work in industry so I took a break from Georgia Tech. In 2015. And so I've been to start a company called Sky Deo and this is a shot of the 1st product of sky idea which is a drone that follows you it's a cool videos of you as you do cool stuff and its affiliates under his drone and so it was I joined as really.

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One of the 1st people in sky to go after the founders and so it was really fun and exciting to build this product from the ground up there multi camera one of the most advanced sort of the systems. On the planet so I do think and it's I wasn't going Valley and once you get to 2nd valley and that's something that I'll discuss again once you get into Silicon Valley there's lots of opportunities and people find you and it's easy to switch And so if I get headhunted by.

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A strong social media company called Facebook. And there I did must be secret stuff as a. In sort of this concrete slab called Building 8 which was started by Regina do ago let DARPA for about. If you visit a Google and then start this kind of. Ace book.

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One of the things that I did there was create a scene I'm standing in the only challenge where you take 360 imagery from a 336 camera and it creates an object representation of a room so that's the type of things that it works inside but I can tell you everything and I since 2018 I've been back at Georgia Tech because I love academia I love Georgia Tech and I love Lance.

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And I loved the housing prices in Atlanta which are a 10th of what they are in Silicon Valley. And that's what I did miss industry and so from 2020 I. Don't play the part time role at Google and Google in the a.t.l.. And in fact we are looking for new collaborators that want to live and work in Atlanta if you go to the link here researched at Google occasions like Lance are you know you'll see a lot of information about what we do and what type of roles I write for.

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And in general there is there is a lot of different openings in enough lots out for Google's Atlanta is really up and coming. In in the world so. All right that's that's nice light so a lot a lot of yield the floor thanks for a day and I invite you to get on your stereo and Facebook I didn't even know you were.

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Nice don't even go to. Next day I don't. Ok Hi I'm Tom Collins of the I'm in the school that was left to engineering now and my the introduction the bio that was included there mention that I started with the i.b.m. 7565 robot and said I'll mention that since no one had any idea what that is direction was one of those over the in they are see I don't know it might still be there but it's so heavy they've made that little moving it that's a hydraulic robot and the thing about that that's relevant is that really ever since then I've always enjoyed building robots so my career the one thing of kind of common is that I've been happiest let them build a whole complete robot system from from that up to what was the 1st unmanned aerial vehicle that we had a Georgia Tech with with the school a year and a detour all involved in that d.c. back in the late ninety's into the ditch the During the DARPA Urban Challenge the ickle that we worked on and to the present work so now we're courseware we're doing drones like everybody else's and I've actually had to some of the work that's related to the the initial i spend robots went out that's getting a lot of publicity and also that's me and I shall I have been teaching in Georgia Tech for a while actually.

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Some of that work Merel iest work that I mentioned there was done over 20 years before guy named Sam Coogan was in my undergraduate class so it gives you some perspective that's all right yeah that is true. That. Very nice I mean if you please tell her that I myself.

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Every one of the prick right now I'm currently at Sandia National Labs I started there. And then transition to staff working in the robotics encounter robotics department and then also demographical I had I was working in this institute as a collaboration between the University of Florida and the Clean Air Force base in the panhandle of Florida.

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And so I've been at c.b.s. for about 4 years a little over 4 years now so I get a little bit of perspective was like to work in a national lab. I'm Aaron young so I'm the assistant professor in the camp on hearing here's where you track I mostly represent sort of the straight to our mind.

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I think you by the things I do have a little bit more of a unique background. Prior to coming here or just. All of my early research was done that re not as serious or Pago So I I kind of dropped more than the Marmet that was heavily clinical.

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And it kind of represents an off. That is in between industry and academia or that there's some people who have questions and there's a lot of research scientists and engineers who get hired into more clinical positions or clinical trials or motion analysis or other things. Like did you get hired for that I think people are more in the medical side of providing.

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Might be interested and in the 2nd option at the lab that I did my Ph d. and really were more of a small. Company in that it was producing products you're right that really were resigned amid the golf implementation and even some of the work that we do is now available for a start up this and then on top.

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Of that well. For the financial population. I do think that while my personal focus was was to get into. The position as you know sort of this quickly as possible. I can definitely come in quite a bit on the clinical side of things where where there's a lot of opportunities.

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If it. Thanks very high if you want to say a few words about your background. There so I'm one of them. A professor in the camp and this is impressive McCaslin a hero currently equipment and Aerospace Engineering my background actually overlaps a lot with ado I also worked at that did.

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Work together I did I thought that at that the after graduating from grad school for about 4 years and at that point out really trying to decide whether I wanted to do a lifetime of government type or more of an academic that ng and so I approached my the ship and the from that perspective trying to look at what the you need teacher is doing are into you know more of a government lab Saturday and then now here at Georgia Tech to get more research setting up the collaborate a lot so I think a lot of news and I think both answer our questions about working in sort of an epic Are these the environment I think one different that provided sort of the perspective of both and I use it sort of out to people and job this week for example here Georgia Tech we bring in people from NASA labs even at senior level so you know if I'm back to the middle there or vice versa professors will believe that go back into government service and enterprise weights and did all the form of government service obviously but it is one that is very exciting for engineers in particular and.

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So that's sort of my perspective but we have a lot of people over here so I'm not going to speak too much specially. From the. So at this point we're going to transition to questions and answers I don't see any questions in the today yet so angry if you all to think of them and then to the.

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Lawyer while you're pondering so questions that answer the q. and a I'll go and start us off with some of the questions I have some trying to decide which one to start with so maybe this one is a little bit in the weeds a little bit but maybe that's the place to start to get us talking and that's.

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So I want to talk a little bit about the difference between soft money and hard money in that industry I think so for example the faculty member. In the us the way our salaries typically structured is we are 9 months salary contracts which means they get paid 9 months out of the year guaranteed by the Ga but then the actual 3 months or so of all summer months if you really get charged to grants if you have research grants and charge an extra 3 months the salary of just grants and a host you have some folks and so our salary I think they call it 9 months of our money in the 3 months.

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And then in industries they have a different balance of what kind of money you're being taken from them and. I think that the media over the floor and maybe folks that for example tries n.d.s. top of it about kind of the hard money soft money slow thing. That's.

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Going to go in. A little bit of government to be able to you know we don't really have that sort of. Differentiation we have a regular salary there are. Some opportunities for getting. Only says rather kind of like being in special programs where they can give you some additional incentives.

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But for the most part it's a regular salary and I would say because we're at a 30 c. So we're not a regular government pay scale or we're managed by like a. A nonprofit organization essentially And so we have typically better salaries than. What you might get on a regular government kind of a skill.

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But yeah it's pretty much a regular salary we don't. Miss aren't responsible depending on your job yeah I think for the most part most jobs are responsible directly for bringing a portion of your salary. Off I'll start off a start by going into the the abstract person goes specific in the abstract that is one of the main differences between these types of jobs is flexibility in general I when you get up in the morning how much flexibility you have in what you work on that and you know and at one extreme an industry and a product development team you know you're told by somebody to do something and that's what you do in an academic at the other extreme you go and you can actually you literally can go out and make any proposal you want to.

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Bring them money and so and there's all whole spectrum in between so that's that's kind of the general thing and in a more specific a vein I have some experience in the different fields but like you work in a lab like guitar or I it's pretty similar to what a nuke describe although you do have a lot you have you have maybe more flexibility in the types of things you propose to which you still wind up with a salary and you get 100 percent paid on that salary I've had most of the last 3 years I've actually been split between guitar I and little engine earrings and then after I have the hybrid thing where it's sort of like the hard money thought money thing except my 9 month just just throughout the year of my 3 months is there out the year and so I sort of have to go out and get these contracts this summer salary equivalent kind of stuff year round and the rest my money is covered on teaching so and those those sort of opportunities are available to every you know you can you can do that not only did you try to protect but there's other places where you can stamp are the time teaching or and part of the time going doing.

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Research. So I guess that's sort of what I would have said but I feel like I think I'm going to sort of repairing a little bit of common sense. Since we're not you talking to Ph D.'s that are listening in there ph d. candidate several a graduate of p.c. many in the industry positions you're not told what's.

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Your industry your work on problems that benefits company it depends on what the vision you're at another p.c. level many positions come by it's Ok are you going to do something in this case and you have to create your own project and sell it it's your management and their most most of the time I made money is not the the object the objection that headscarves If so head count is something hard to come by.

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In industry because it's it's planned on a longer time scales and money's typically fairly readily available you know so it has got a special part of money but then again I just want to say if you're graduating with a ph d. and you're going to Facebook or Google or are superstar scared you know.

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When you're hired at that level. It's to have some fun and some freedom was about. You not stepping into the new Evil Knievel knew what used to be the Bell Labs or I do you speak up and fight Bell Labs and your Packard and other places that did and i.b.m. it did that kind of work and still to some extent but nowadays yet you know I think it's myth and those are the companies we have the kind of freedom that you almost have a knack.

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Yeah I do like how to operate it because I think it is this or it had been all that the the edit feel it right you can get sort of a couple of months out or you could do something but you may be sort of more maybe more likely to buy it maybe still classical but it may have some very clear definitions and deliverable but in academia and in the government as well they'll give you more opportunities to apply for extra grants things like that that will mean that you're sort of in charge if you do your stuff now you know you can bring in money from wherever you want.

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But you have to do it right so you get the excitement that begin with your own ideas that's true and I can do that that's really but the challenge of course is now you have to deliver on that promise because you need to support yourself and so it goes both ways and I think and I think there's always good and healthy I'm going to call question were gay because I think I really like how.

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The 1st one was from Peru and he said in terms of job search and hiring what are university looking for beyond a large list of publication how do we maximize our high potential of giving you an experience a teaching leadership that I think is the furthest add an area and of course practice experience to maybe that Eric to talk to it yet so I don't write songs to myself we did talk about this last masterbate when we were talking about faculty hiring.

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So I mean. A well run t.v. is an important part of looking for a factory system. Yeah I don't know how much I'm one of the team that already a quick glance like that there are a lot of people to look at to get a quick answer for what it's all the most important thing for after the fact if you've got a book Know What That is.

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Yes that's all right and maybe it will be problematic. So these lines papers I think we all know papers is a great goal but I think that. Ok I mean so who are going to be critical and it's not just a number paper it's we're publishing so in the robot it's the great I'm assuming that most of us are we kind of know what her journals are and you you know I got to comment briefly do you have all already letters right click click They're great papers out and it's good to have you know them are a lot or I think I'll do a lot of them but I'd like to just use the teeth if you could.

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And make sure you have some transactions you want to do with your applying that you've got you know either back to Tronics or robotics for Earth you know something along those lines depending on where you're out of something in more of the transaction area. Is important in that people are less the other but the other thing research papers I think is critical is how you're going to sell yourself as being unique in that you know and this is especially difficult for the series and some bigger mediately out and being on the academic job search I think the way that many of us have done it and especially in the revived field which I think is very competitive whenever there is an out there and a very good sense at all whether that leads to distinguish yourself is how do you oppose doc and make sure that the Bills and the expertise that you learned are not post-doc positions yourself uniquely from distribution so it's clear that you're somehow differentiated from your earlier ph d. advisor I think increasingly it's more important post-op and you're the doctors and the post office where you can show that you've got skills the aunt.

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Just younger your kids you are. Yeah. Well you know if you and I say I'm used to doing it that I use a moderate. Ok The next we're going to persist question and then test question both of which I like a lot of getting some. Cases asking about switching from academia to industry or vice versa and his specific question is it's easier to go one direction than the other and other and the trade offs are switching.

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Efraim so. Yes I'll give you my personal perspective and. I can't. The number of people that I know that this successful transition from industry to work at the area. It's it's. I think it might be changing because the indeed fair and Google research and Microsoft Research are to a certain extent almost even better than that academia in terms of academic freedom and publishing and collaboration's with other people and so straying from there might be actually if they mean might be easier.

[00:26:03]
But that's really once you leave it to me out your revert structure changes and that makes it to me difficult to to to successfully apply to. 2 academic positions you know so if you're a Ph D.'s in your in this publishing world then you are maybe a person and you're in this publishing round of your you know people and you have your network and that makes it easier to to to get a fact to position once you leave that world.

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And this might be by choice you exit that word structure and I've seen people come back after many many years like the rape was some of the industry positions Bill Freeman who just got the next to the national engineering. Rights but you know he was in history admiral for a long time.

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Charles Isabel who was our Dean was in history for a long time you know so there are exceptions but I consider them exceptions that's my $0.02 Ok so we can continue talking about that but I want to bring incest but it's kind of related other significant differences in how you're evaluated with 3 with respect to promotion salary and industry versus active he so you were kind of touching on that point right I guess but that it or is your message that sort of publications becomes a difference awaiting structure in an industry or 2nd.

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Absolutely absolutely so companies do have a bottom line and a mission. And the big issues are nice especially if you're a research heavy branch of the organization play it Larry it's part of your metrics but if you're you know say in a v.a.r. or Gov Facebook like Oculus rights that you know in August research has amazing people Ok they could publish what they're doing.

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And you know everybody away and some do Ok so. That's obvious Pittsburgh. But others are like you know I don't care about publications that this is going to make their products great for make it make or break a product so yeah absolutely publications are lesser. You know metric.

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Understates maybe you can talk a little about. Categories that we did have or oceans and things like that and. What I said. So publicly it's a few times to be a national not just general I think kind of in the middle between the academic. And as well as.

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Runoff especially Sandia because how large it is here is span boobies. You know there are some research heavy. Branches within Sandia that do get paper accountants and those who look at the metrics rather are more committed and focused that look at what way you can contribute to the team if you're leading components of systems or things like that.

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Part of our group is a little bit well back it has a mix that part of our metrics is also how if you're bringing in funding exactly from external customers how you're collaborating with with others both within the organization as well as academics or otherwise. As well as if you have any kind of leadership.

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Opportunities. Both within a team in. Leading a project or leaving you know some parts of a project or community outreach or things like that you know if you're on some kind of panel or. You know. Or technical or professional realization those are also kind of about you but yeah in general it's you can you have a lot of opportunity to shape what you do within within a national lab so if you could take a very sort of academic paper out raise your publishing and bring in money or if you take much more of a relative I'm just what they'll be staying said that brick success 2 particular project and those I think both end up in Frank touched on this back in a 1000 up and when when you're in industry I think of the project and project team and having people in them to be very important and one of the Up until a few options and good Iwate on how many people you're supervising and how effective you are and supervising them that becomes a big thing in an industry is not so much and I continue.

[00:31:00]
Yeah that's pretty well Ok so so so. Yeah so so there tend to be sort of 2 tracks in industry as well the clean in the research as well as I see individual contributor and then the other is sort of more of a manager. And people can get its you know Facebook Google out or large companies were good levels and you can you can level up as an i.c. and that can be a career paths and you can also choose to go into the knowledge and it is very much appreciated as well.

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And so when people look to hire I think they look for either you're good at leadership you've sas as it gives you students you can you can organize workshops you can you can. You going to lead undergrads you can lead master students you can you can sort of show that you have leadership and show that I see track people might be looking at you know well can you sort of the self just you know self-sustaining in the sense that you're not afraid to do some coding get some data out do experiments and publish that are sort of 2 possible routes even in your industry.

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And the last thing I'll say is I think in a convenient you are especially as faculty also very much evaluated on how your leadership skills because you're leading a lab you're leading if you'd Institute to a good outcome you're working with undergrads and that's where students leadership is important in academia as well.

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Yeah lots of their. Other other comments I mean it's kind of don't question you know going back and forth between industry and academia and or at least metrics and it's yours. Well I think that that I think the clear message from this is to make it clear the idea that if you do want to come back that could be the most important thing you can do if you're in the government period.

[00:33:10]
And I think that if you can keep doing that I think you can keep your doors open. That's up to you because policy by that 5 to publishing really bad it is an important exception to that that I think what's exciting is now to see if that more paper that.

[00:33:26]
They mention that that d.s.d. some really something out of the research groups there and so I think it's not the courage that people are in a lot of it off but it does take a little extra motivation from. The part of your additional promotion that's excited about it I think alliances we have a couple more questions coming in so so there's a question out there we maximize our hiring potential for companies as a p.c. and what kinds of experiences are companies looking for from each graduate who are the jewels today if they look at it there's just very.

[00:34:12]
You know I just want to repeat what I've been a fan of. Getting things done will be something that people economy you know especially if you're coming in as a you know at an entry level or as. This goes you know looking at this question. If you're a master soon you're probably coming out at the bottom or entry level if you're a peachy you're going to be either a slightly higher level but.

[00:34:40]
Unless you're specifically hired for leadership skills it's probably not going to be that your immediate hired in a in a management position for the team you'll grow into that there are exceptions to that. But. Getting things done and then and then also showing potential for leadership if you're interested in this is management track.

[00:35:03]
It's repeating what I said then I want to add. But confronts right I mean it has a lot to do with experience in doing things companies are going to want want to say want to see the students are capable of actually doing things the men are not and those are not waiting to be told what to do next they're also starters they've got real hands on experience with things hands on include programming and thing are you know to actually think I'm constructing things because there's there is a fear of an industry that you're going to be somebody who's going to need a lot of hand-holding and that's that's that project experience is really really useful I think I try to really as I put my gratitude and autograph in my class.

[00:35:47]
But you know if I we can easily make videos or at least adaptations of what we do make a portfolio of the product. And because I think that really highlight what new capabilities are right it's very easy to point to a paper say I had this proof or something like that but you know if you can show that you can get things done in a tangible way and in a relatable way right the one thing that I think that one skill that I think people overlook is the ability to produce that and describe you right so to be able to show something very tangible it will help a story that's going to be a very valuable skill and whatever crew you do whether you're trying to get grants or you try to sell your property or sell a product and so I think one thing that I try to.

[00:36:33]
Document your work really well and take the time to make it look good. Make it look pretty. Well I. Think that it because there's a question from the average about the differences in opportunities in industry between a Ph d. and that serious you know Carol that aspect but Dollars are a little bit of a piece for example of what I did at this.

[00:37:10]
If you saw scariest talk last Friday there was a type you know look at Karlie at mit but a couple of other general efforts organizing his robotics seminar she's on like me she's really great and has a bunch of good speakers and speakers last week where I don't agree and I cracked hear us from.

[00:37:31]
Brusque audio and Heidi because somebody be hired straight from Stanford with a mechanical engineering degree. And he was just amazing and he now leads the entire autonomy team you know which is I think I don't know how many people are right now but. He was technically very good see results are great at communication.

[00:37:55]
And he he leads a team and he gave the talk last Friday. But I believe there's a lot of question about you know as for nourishing versus straight going straight. To a larger company I always tell people and this goes doubly for Master students go do a startup thing 1st either do it yourself or join a startup.

[00:38:21]
Startups are by by the Phoenician things that sort of try to grow exponentially so even when you come in if you come in early you know you have this opportunity to grow very very quickly and it's almost like getting a Ph d. if you're coming as a message and you'll get a Ph d. just by virtue of being at the start of her 4 years.

[00:38:41]
And that is very much appreciated by the large companies which there is something like an IP hire right which makes a start up and just buys to start up order talents not for the product that they're making which That's But for the talent that's inside. I would say that almost you know a lot of the jobs love really interesting jobs in industry you almost need a master's to start with I mean you get so much crammed into 4 years of undergraduate that you really kind of need those extra skills in order to be a designer or that offer and it's but then the p.c. is that next round if those thing those jobs that Google ranks talking about well you know have a lot of flexibility what to do.

[00:39:24]
That's more the ph d. level jobs than the words the investor obs is you must gives you a lot of opportunities a lot of. Opportunities a great deal in industry in terms of what you work on but the ph d. gives you the flexibility and the almost I think I mean I think lifestyle in some companies so maybe kind of connected to that question one of the questions on my list was it out it's all taking the opportunity if you start ups in academia so I think one thing that you're so tightly focused why they're less interested in industries because there's a lot of opportunity to go build the products try to launch something but I think something that's underappreciated is how easy it is in academia if you take some time off and do a start up or stand what they're weak hoping which is actually I'd challenge you to think of another field where you can if your employer tells you you're free to spend one day a week or convert to pursue a lawyer so I'm serious both septuplets and may Frank you know why did you take such a long week of absence instead of the other side of the pros and cons what your experience with.

[00:40:35]
You on something like that but I think it's far better but it's here as if there's a downside of academia. That I experience. Which is funding Ok so you have to continuously look for farming and unless you're very lucky and you get you've got a large kind of money from somebody.

[00:40:59]
Some of his funding doesn't sort of take you on rates for a project and then and then you're you're puzzling you start puzzling Ok if I have this law grants and this medium grants and I can and so you're constantly trying to feed this. It's a bit like a rat race and it can be exhausting after all and this is partly why I took a large leave of absence because.

[00:41:25]
It was very taxing to continuously have to. Chase after that dragon. So. About your earlier question which is consulting that is that is that is really an amazing opportunity as at through it it's actually can consult one day a week and that's actually how like my my group of affiliation works.

[00:41:50]
And. And so then you can have your cake and eat it too you can be consulting for a company build a product set up because now the downside of industry and I experience is that when I was on Facebook I was so focused on getting the job done and leading a team that when I read a paper I felt guilty and in academia it's part of my job and so I don't feel guilty at all I repay present I love reading papers I missed after immensely and that's one of the reasons I came back do everything they did yet are.

[00:42:28]
Present comes every. Now I don't want a Masters. Race where you are and you know I know this and this is a degree restriction it's getting. Yeah I think it used to be you got to have at least a masters and I think that still the case to be staff and I'm usually even if you have a Masters I think they often want to see a future for years of experience.

[00:43:05]
And typically a Ph d. kind of meets that requirement. And I could see also your starting point is over a bit higher the chain. In terms of you know what interesting we've kind of using the consulting question is that you know because Citi is like fairly large and you have a very large mix of like more research lower tier Elkanah work as well as much more applied you know we're actually making a thing to do it I think.

[00:43:37]
You can work on a variety of different projects and we're very y.b. across the different position. So you can scratch kind of both of those issues if you want to do research and spend some of your time. In something real you can do both within one place and it's fairly what I really think this kind of nice about sanity is people are fairly.

[00:44:01]
There's a lot of opportunity for collaboration. Across across different works so it's nice and abstract. Yeah the other thing that I think is nice from getting at them and that something is that have in common it is not that they're consulting for money but consulting on important problems so when the government has it in or challenges that have to deal with frequently different governments that the I think that the opportunity to be part of a pretty high profile review for investigations of things and that's going to active duty as well so when you sort of have that level of expertise and you sort of view that unbiased you get that interview to for profit or a portent.

[00:44:47]
Accident or that sort of very significant I guess the academics and people from Nashville up involved in that and the radio a lot of very proficient at all but there is that satisfaction and sort of you know you're doing something for the greater think it's important to get.

[00:45:08]
Back to Frank's comment about about the feeding the you know getting getting that next project you know it's it's probably true and then in most of the government laboratories that you tend to have the longer term cons of efforts and things where you don't have to worry about that as much people and just drop my research and just I would say university affiliated Research Institute in general it tends to be somewhere in between you'd often have you often have researchers who have put together teams that over a long period of time continue to go back and get funding from the same d.o.d. conferences so you have a lot you have sort of this middle ground of stability in your job you're still going to get new contracts but they're often with the same people and it's not you're not quite so much else in the.

[00:45:59]
Trying to trying to trying to do cold calls as you might be in not them in. Other other comments or some type. I think we've hit all the q. and a that's currently the out so I'll be one of my own people maybe think about the last part of the question so they sort of touched on this a little bit but I want to circle back little bit since we have a lot of p.c. students on all if you had to give advice on I know you should heal your p.c. studies based on whether you want to join industry or academia whether it's something companies that you would recommend So for example I tell my students if they're even considering academia it's critical that they get that sort of a publication record that looks you know Sterling with these transactions and it's like this eternal papers right now whereas if I had students and their love them on the inside I heard them more strongly too but we still couple internships during that site it's an experience of it understand what kind of opinions are out there some very smart people have thoughts on this.

[00:47:12]
Bill Freeman just gave a talk that c.v.r. been Freeman is the game plan from our. Men to mit it is now and it is in fact that Google is wrong. And he said there is a he hasn't he had a beautiful graph which which. Was the quality of the paper and the impact on your career why it's it was in particular that success was quality.

[00:47:43]
And so if the paper is very bad quality it might have a very small you know negative impact if the quality is so-so you know the paper will probably have like little to no impact on your career but if it's a high quality paper with relatively large impact on your career and so his advisors very strongly go for several high impact high quality paper they'll publish something that is sort of half bit and rushed for something good that you because people will remember it's not about bulk it's about quality.

[00:48:22]
But that's you know that's what Bill I are going to give you get advice from the for yet another echo that. It's from us from our side there were better 1st evaluating candidates for the 1st inkling to the recipe is their papers and what's nice about that is we can actually go look at the papers we the paper see with already is and coming from the Tommy side where you're working with algorithms and software the 10 percent robotics you can actually make something real that actually does something and so yeah we look at the quality of the papers quality of the technical work the fun is a really important factor and then once you come in we can do an interview then you can actually get more in-depth like what you're presenting of what you've done to be able to question this but having high quality technical work it's very important I think most of the attendees are probably robotics the students really more than more often than not and robotics the program is really well positioned for giving people the kind of experience and training and of things on their resume they do look I mean you know you do get Project experience you not only.

[00:49:39]
Really take advantage of that given the opportunity you have to work with different different faculty and to do different projects and that is exactly the sort of thing that. Are. Yeah actually I think that's a great. You know academia so when you're in school you can do a lot of cool stuff and sometimes you're going to get still typecast favorite there if you can get paid to make this or that really take it bad to be able to learn from smart people are asked to take a class for fun even if it doesn't live up with your research so kind I'll let you know your friends research project embrace at their end of the class in undergrad like mc aren't That's a lot but I work at underwater robots my wife taking and I think it's cool and that although a lot of my research is I play a cat a cook and so I look back and I thought Top I mean though it was like one of the giants in planning a big like that and that wanted to take a class change the trajectory of my career and well and that's a plus ability of the Grad to.

[00:50:47]
Go go to schools that are take advantage of all the information that you sort of being there or that thing thrown at you I think that will benefit you a lot and if you don't just focus on the one that will probably kind of fall under another 2 you can do to become visible in.

[00:51:07]
It and so another large audience I'll just say I decided to sever my to them Spezza face because every source of media and Twitter can be concerned considered social media. As if you're a researcher you can use Twitter to your advantage in 2 ways one is. To see if you subscribe to the right people Twitter can be very hyper CMOs remember you get the latest papers the latest ideas that etc So you find some people that you really like about their reprocessing and the papers they write and it's exciting when you're on Twitter you can also publish.

[00:51:49]
You think that interesting classified mechanics imagine you do it it's cool project. You can write about it and said It's another thing you learn to write is a process and you can learn to write and writing a blog post and then advertising it on Twitter and getting some traction there that can actually boost your profile books like a Democrat and an industry so I think Twitter can be your friend if you if you let it be.

[00:52:23]
Other thoughts. So I don't see any new 20 maybe one many one last question then we get like touched on this is there any comments about work life balance on a different taste issues we're talking about so for example I know that I start to get a bad rap for people's lives whether they're have curious.

[00:52:49]
What's what but thoughts are that's what it's like else's and. I don't want to be. This way to they try to emphasize work life balance but I think you know it is probably true of most places I mean you're working in research and you are more self directed.

[00:53:14]
That's what directional Ciro. Is on your own I guess work life balance you can decide. How you want to balance and I mean that can be good or bad you know what it should. Do you consider. I was going to say that that's not the things that. I think when you're young.

[00:53:37]
No matter what you do I talk to a lot of my friends and a lot of different. This is when you're making your career and you really push I think when you're young is your chance to really make it and then the easier to learn stuff you have opportunities to do a lot of things travel.

[00:53:53]
Go to conferences think that may become harder if you get older and settle down and so I think when you when you're there early in your career you really should be trying to I think go have work life out there think it's very important I think it's go to the gym you have hobbies but I also think that when you're young This is a chance for you to really create your own reputation and your own guilt and I think the focus on trying to grow those as much as possible and to get away anything that I don't know out of people and a lot of different worlds to sort of feel the same way that there is working a lot.

[00:54:29]
And I think that's part of you know the young and getting your foot in the door at the request whether you have to be in the air that the air startups I think people when they're fresh out of school and they're going to be working pretty hard. I don't I don't think that I've actually ever to see what a life coach or a therapist would tell somebody is a good work life balance I think I've always worked too much right.

[00:54:57]
And you know some people feel bad about that but I think you sort of have to you sort of have to look at the end of the day why do I work so much and it's like well if you like doing it right if you got up in the morning have something that was so on you want to spend extra time on it then maybe that's really not so bad you know yes you do have to manage your health you have to consider exercise you know definitely there are all those things but it's not just hours in the day it's more than that it's it's it's what makes you happy and sometimes work does make you happy.

[00:55:39]
One more question came in and so all is the last question so I'll read the question a question that seems at least like Google Facebook at freedom like academia but also are less concerned about funding however these places are extremely competitive to get into it so the question is are places like Google the only option to be in the sorts of atheist.

[00:56:00]
Is it so there are some underlying assumptions to that question one is for example that academia is not maybe nice and I think academia has a lot of competitiveness as well and so I guess the general question I guess is the pros and cons are we're talking about are they reserved for sort of the upper crust of these categories or the general program Adolphe the free question.

[00:56:23]
You know thinking. I do think it's true or you know Velasquez come up right so whatever the last over. Is because they have a monopoly. For stuff lots of money as a result as they can afford. And research far that is not focused on the bottom line that can do some of the research.

[00:56:47]
And in a way that's visionary because some of the fundamental research that's 8 out of you know very handsomely for that island been a crunch hit you know one of the reasons Charles is or was it's with us and Young record is backing academia. Is because the lab stuff they couldn't afford it anymore and you know you have to have a certain amount of like remotely that comes in to afford the luxury of it then if you like and at the moment indeed those are these big companies and.

[00:57:23]
The more you go to companies that have to work harder for their money because it's sort of crazy like going to visit the money just rolls in run from advertising and that's are going to last right they're going to go through their Bell Labs. The more you have to sort of work for your money the less you can afford an academic freedom type law and you'll see them close down and then you've got to be more focused and maybe more grounded in reality is about as likely you know we need to get this forklift other minutes because it's going to help us you know the bottom line we're going to have to do warehouse management and as well as a 100000 robots or more.

[00:58:07]
It's amazing. You know they don't care too much about economic freedom they want. To get stuff done. Yeah that's what I say about that and you know that's honest Ok I think that's that's taking us up to the hour so I don't actually really thank all of our panelists I really appreciate the insight you had after I think it was a very nice cross-section of a mix and.

[00:58:42]
I think for for organizing all of the seminar series inviting you to moderate this one. So I had that. Wrapped Up Thanks again our. Thanks I think that's. One.