[00:00:36]
>> OK. There are there is the laser show portion. OK that's another thought I got to start a little bit different with the way your typical engineering science lecture works right because they want to talk about is one of the major shortcomings of engineers and scientists that is our ability to engage while we refute the thing but to engage people or get them excited about science and engineering and I'm just going to leave it as getting people excited as that sounds better because what you realize a lot of this is about marketing and that's something we don't really do.

[00:03:05]
So no one actually doing the planet which is great. You know what I love doing it. I love doing that song. We're going to see that later that you know if you think about it. How do people sell things right. You look at the Super Bowl ads two things humor and sex sex and humor.

[00:03:19]
That's all they do right and people don't think of us engineers and sexy. I disagree with that even if you are shocked and appalled at the dance I did when I came in here. I think we are very sexy you know they say once you had an engineer.

[00:03:32]
You never go back to someone who doesn't wear safety glasses in the bedroom. Again. So with then I will move on to what we're going to talk about today namely why even bother getting people excited about science and engineering right we should first examine whether or not that's a useful thing to do next.

[00:03:49]
I'll cover some of the biggest obstacles. One is the fact that my laser pointer is dying to getting people excited about science engineering and then. I'm going to give you some examples of how to people how to get people excited about science and engineering and they always tell you when you give a talk tell him what you're going to tell him then tell me then telling with telling what you just told him how to get people excited about science.

[00:04:09]
In engineering. I don't think anybody really knows right in education we call this action research right that's another name for we try some stuff see if it works and then try some new stuff right. It's very hard to do fundamental research on education or presentation stuff but I'm going to give you my thoughts.

[00:04:25]
Having spent the last two and a half years making a complete ass out of myself on Comedy Club stages around the southeast and. Co-hosting with Bill Hunt from E.C. e a radio show on Saturday mornings called Inside the black box from one to ten on radio Sandy Springs we'll talk a little bit more about that later.

[00:04:41]
So I'm just going to give you my anecdotal. Results from that. And then after we talk about how I think you ought to get people excited about that will summarize and acknowledge some of the people who are saying it in soon enough to actually contribute to this endeavor.

[00:04:55]
Why bother. The main reason is to empower people to make informed decisions about science and technology right. These are word for word what came out of a proposal to Radio Free GA We actually originally sent the proposal to them they're interested in it from the socio political standpoint.

[00:05:12]
So from the standpoint of government and politics it's very very important from society is very very important also very very important in business as well because the business people and I'm going to ask is a business major here because you can hate me later. They've hijacked science and technology right.

[00:05:29]
Nowadays. Nobody listens to the scientists because they don't trust us we were at an all time low in terms of what people think about science scientists and engineers they tend to trust anyone who will step up to the plate. And that's what I want to talk about a little bit today.

[00:05:43]
So. And that's that's what I just briefly mentioned that if scientists and engineers don't empower people someone else is going to fill the gap and I want to make a recommendation for something. Despite the fact it's a very partisan book The Republican War on Science by Chris Mooney and it's a shame that it's a partisan book because it's not a partisan issue.

[00:06:03]
Democrats liberals libertarians communists socialists they do the same thing. Think everybody does this it just happens to be that currently we're in an upswing where conservatives are in charge and they're the ones that are really distorted science liberals do the same exact thing in fact the Christmas credit the first thing he opens with in the preface is pointing out that liberals in the past have done this for example Greenpeace PETA these sort of folks they claim for many many years that we should all Limon eight animal testing which is probably a good thing I'm kind of for eliminating animal testing but they claim we should do it because we have all these computer models and how to predict immunological reactions on the skin.

[00:06:44]
And the answer is not so much so in fact I took the liberty of actually writing a computer model on predicting contact dermatitis this is something that's relevant to what i do we work with a company called up Romero's who work with a monomer small organic chemicals seemingly innocuous that they make an Apollo and we test them and see whether or not they work well in microelectronics devices.

[00:07:05]
Somebody's got a case contact dermatitis there they shut the whole facility down for six months we have no idea why. So nobody's going to think this funny is funny. Some of the C.S. people in the room and if you look at the function Basically it uses a random number and one tenth of one percent.

[00:07:20]
It says OK you're going to get them otitis this is accurate is anything we have and I do simulations for a living so that was a distortion of science on the liberal side but like I said it occurs on both sides so. Let me talk to you about what they're doing and by them.

[00:07:38]
I don't necessarily mean Republicans I mean anyone that is distorting science for their own gain. They harp on the uncertainty of science and here's where it's kind of unfair. This is the one thing that the average person needs to understand about science and engineering. There's always uncertainty right.

[00:07:55]
You're never one hundred percent sure about anything. And in fact in twenty plus years of going to scientific and technical meetings I have never once heard the phrase scientifically proven. We just don't use it. Where do you hear it. Infomercials. That's where you hear you hear where someone's got an agenda.

[00:08:13]
They'll tell you it's scientifically proven because we never prove anything one hundred percent right. We like to put little ninety ninety five and ninety nine percent confidence intervals on things and this is some data taken by one of my students you John. Cam. Looking at how much stuff goes through the skin.

[00:08:28]
So this is transdermal drug delivery and we're using chemicals to enhance that this is relevant to say you know the the nicotine patch on your arm of the skull polymath patch you put behind your neck. If you get seasick. And what you see these are the ninety percent confidence intervals here in my pointer's that's I'm just going to go right up there and point to it and you see basically at one tenth of a million dollar concentration of this particular peptide we're using a one third or one.

[00:08:51]
It's all the same. Some people will live by ignoring uncertainty and they'll say well look as we increase it. It goes up. But then you do the final experiment you realize a two million dollar it goes down right so there's an interesting phenomenon that we just don't understand what a lot of people are doing now is when we say OK there are problems with the environment.

[00:09:11]
There is global warming. We can never say one hundred percent sure we can never do that we can say we're ninety ninety five maybe even ninety nine percent sure. And they say look they're not one hundred percent sure. So maybe it's not right and what they do is they're essentially looking at these error bars and saying look you can never conclude anything right.

[00:09:28]
And we can't conclude anything from this until we actually look at what the relevant trend is and the trend is that this particular thing in the M.G. happens to be a different POV type. This is the control these black points here. P.B.S. simply stands for phosphate Barber solution.

[00:09:46]
Right. This is water with a balance PH That's all it is that's the control and if you put in M.L.S.. And Laurel's or coating it's just soap. Soap by the way is a very good transdermal drug delivery mechanism. Right. So actually works well. So if you use lotions They've got limited type scopes in here and that's what helps gets things into your skin.

[00:10:06]
I'm not a big fan of moisturizer so none of us guys. Why they taste horrible remember that ladies that's the biggest drawback they taste horrible. My suggestion is somebody invent a hot sauce flavored moisturizer right. Well that's what you were and you want to be romantic and move into that nibble on the neighbor the next move.

[00:10:26]
When we do what we get horrible. So that aside live the social commentary aside you see that you really don't at moderate ph is get much in effect by ending this peptide. But suddenly when you get to eight nine ten. It's the trend that's important. So increasing the PH tells us that we can make this path I do great things in terms of transdermal drug delivery with the results be different for different experiment you betcha.

[00:10:52]
But it's the trend that it's and that's that's really important and that's what people need to understand there's always uncertainty but it's the trend. The reason this will change is because this is not an transdermal task and could Danvers scan. I work with Professor Mark Rosen it's on this and I always tell him Look I tell this and you keep that in Mark's lab keep it in his refrigerator I don't have anything to do with this sort of stuff but everybody skin is different.

[00:11:18]
Right. So even though this is an average over about ten different samples it's only on a few different samples of cadaver skin and that's always an issue. So with regard to medical and environmental stuff there's always huge fluctuations. OK now if people don't know about uncertainty and we allow other people to say look it certainly is bad.

[00:11:39]
You can ever conclude anything you better listen to us because they're uncertain. Then you get crazy stuff like this and we see if I get this started and it doesn't matter whether you're you believe in global warming or not there is a horrible in so. OK. You never got the little picture they had lots of parts of the little girl out here.

[00:12:53]
I apologize for the fact that the sound quality was not great but that was a commercial that was aired on television nationally about the Competitive Enterprise Institute and again if you don't believe in global warming or if you do believe in global warming. It's a relevant this is an insult to everyone's intelligence to go back to third grade biology explain it.

[00:13:12]
Plants and humans respond. We all produce carbon dioxide and there's a basic balance. And this was the Competitive Enterprise Institute is funded almost solely by petrochemical companies their biggest contributor is Exxon Mobil So the point is they were trying to say look you understand nothing about the environment you understand nothing about carbon dioxide human kind of human in fourth grade the carbon dioxide was good.

[00:13:39]
We all respond. It is good. What's happening is not something you should worry your pretty little head about and that's how stupid they're assuming we actually are and that's what happens. I think when scientists don't get involved. We are probably behind the curve right in England there was a study commissioned by the Royal Academy and in fact they now have a new program where they have scientists from Imperial College Cambridge in Oxford going out talking on a regular basis with politicians business leaders community leaders students.

[00:14:09]
To talk about all these relevant scientific issues right here not so much so that certainly an illustration of one of the things that can happen. So we talk a little bit about the obstacles to science and sharing and even though this is sort of a side note I couldn't talk about this without bringing up math.

[00:14:26]
Everybody hates math right. Studies have not quantified this very well actually because it's hard to to gauge man in adults because we don't have regular testing for these folks actually look for some studies but I think everybody has an anecdotal piece of evidence and I'm going to share one of my favorite ones with you as well.

[00:14:44]
Another problem is in this was the conclusion of the study at the Royal Society in England that scientists seem unapproachable and one of the consequences at least alluded to is that if we're an approachable nobody wants to listen to us and they don't listen to us now. Someone else is going to step up to the microphone and take charge one of the other problems I want to dress this specifically is that modern science is inaccessible.

[00:15:09]
In the old days you could take something apart. Whether it was a car or a radio right. I mean I actually worked on radios when I was younger I certainly worked on cars right. How many people fix their own car heads. You can't I mean when I was sixteen years old.

[00:15:26]
If you had a timing light a grease gun a can of gum out carburetor cleaner you could actually tune up your car. Now I don't even own the range that's got three swivels in it that allows me to pull the spark plugs used to just be a socket wrench can happen.

[00:15:39]
The other big problem is it's all Microelectronics they're all integrated circuits so everything that happens is inside a chip you can't see it. So one of the lessons we're going to learn is make science accessible in your examples robotics is a good example of that and I'll show you some examples of what's happening right here in Georgia Tech along those lines and then finally I want to talk about one other challenge that sort of peripheral to this.

[00:16:01]
So let's at least that look in more depth at some of these challenges and I'm going to pick my example of people hating man. It happened several years ago when I was diving in Pompano Beach Florida us on been a scuba diver for twenty four years and I was down there a number of years ago getting my rich air nitrox certification.

[00:16:23]
This is where you die with a scuba tank not filled with air but with air mixed with oxygen right so you're less likely to get decompression sickness in the bends the problem is that at two atmospheres of pressure oxygen is lethal to humans. Fortunately Navy divers learn this by diving with pure oxygen about thirty five feet it's not a pretty picture but some math is required to calculate that limit.

[00:16:46]
Right. It's a very important one but on the dive boat it's hard to see but the dive boats actually parked in that corner of the sands Harbor Marina in Pompano Beach Florida. We were coming back in they were playing some tunes right so you're going back in and they were playing Rolling Stones and some pop tunes and somebody put on the two thousand and five issue in fact this must be a remake because I know this was before two those and five of the mathlete It's called I hate math and it's a really snappy tune by the way but the irony struck me that we're coming back in and having done these calculations to make sure we didn't die of oxygen poisoning and people are claiming i hate math and they're jumping around to everybody.

[00:17:23]
Love this tune right. And I think we're going to see this in an article published on childhood education in just a second that you need to make it relevant. I'll tell you right now that's going to be one of my conclusions that if you make it a relevant example people will actually understand math and science that's at least what we try to do so for me it was relevant.

[00:17:42]
There is the pickle label of a nitrox and rich air nitrogen dive tank that happened to be a picture of a sting ray I took when I was on that particular trip. And they give me this formula in the back of the book when you get certified in this that the maximum depth you can go to is forty six point two divided by the fraction of oxygen in the tank minus thirty three and never explain it.

[00:18:06]
They have a formula for other safety limits they have the equal. One of this formula in meters never explained it once. Whereas every single person in that class had been diving for quite some time. And they understood that every thirty three feet is one atmosphere of pressure that much in no you're down to thirty three feet.

[00:18:23]
You know there's two atmospheres of pressure on you because there's one atmosphere up on the top another atmosphere for every thirty three feet that's something everybody is committed to memory and in the metric system it's ten meters easy to remember forty six point two I could never remember that.

[00:18:38]
And all you need to remember is that the limit is one point four atmospheres of oxygen or there's an extra safety limit of contingency limit of one point two six and if they just went in and explained that that's the total pressure or actually that's the partial pressure of oxygen.

[00:18:54]
So if the pressure times the fraction of oxygen the pressure is that simple formula one atmosphere plus the depth divided by thirty three you plug it in and you go ahead and get that forty six point two. It's ten. Instead of thirty three in the metric system so it's actually fourteen nice and easy is it relevant.

[00:19:13]
You bet. It's relevant because if you plug in the numbers we were diving with thirty two percent oxygen. That gives you a limit of one hundred and eleven. Point four feet and what was the depth. I took that sting ray picture at one hundred eight. In fact inside the rock where we were to actually get down there hundred ten.

[00:19:30]
So I was watching my death gauge very very carefully but no one tries to put it in terms of this believe it or not. My students in chemical engineering hit me because I always use gas expansion things from scuba diving to me that's relevant. Maybe in need of even more relevant examples but at least if you start with something relevant to you.

[00:19:46]
That's always an improvement. These are some tips I took out of Charles Cornell's paper I hit man I couldn't learn it and I can't teach it from childhood education in one thousand and nine and you'll see he sort of agrees point number one include real world applications so relevance I think is very important.

[00:20:02]
This is an interesting one. I just think it's funny. No personal ridicule. I mean who would do that. Then I remember we're at Georgia Tech. So maybe that no no. Ridiculing last we can prove that. OK that's good. Project should provide purpose to math as you an example of one that's going on the math department here at Georgia Tech in just a minute.

[00:20:24]
It should be fun but I find scuba diving fun so to me that's relevant rote memorization should be avoided but when they teach you. Scuba diving you memorize a lot of stuff stuff out of table stuff at a formula that nobody explains where they come from. And another important thing is that you ought to be able to look at an error or a shortcoming and figure out why it happened and fix it.

[00:20:46]
That Margo's dials over and college of computing and I were sitting on a panel trying to figure out what the best way to teach freshman design was and we concluded that get them to make the most number of mistakes in the shortest amount of time possible and then learn from them.

[00:21:00]
So this remediation is extremely important. So let's look at an example of that. And I'm actually going to take this example out of a paper I wrote with Mathew Ralph Marcus now and Tom Morley that we presented at a engineering Foundation conference in Davos Switzerland. And it dealt with the fact that engineers don't like to collaborate and that was kind of obvious in hindsight we had these collaborative websites you might know them is weak or sweet peas the weak E.P.D. is one of these things we called it a collaborative website a coal web because we can sweep the sounded to goofy to apply to the National Science Foundation for but what it showed us is that engineers don't like to collaborate because they see something as having one answer and in the real world.

[00:21:44]
There isn't one answer. So one of the other things I'm going to show you is open ended projects make the real world experience more real as well but to refer to the suppression of the paper that deals with what Tom Morley in math did so he never had time Morley for calculus.

[00:21:58]
It's kind of a wacky guy when we wrote this paper he was having a body building. So he did a linear regression analysis in his calculus class right where you fit something to some sort of lie. In multi dimensions and you optimize that fit and learn something from it so he decided to FIT test scores which he used anonymously with whatever he did gender he did age he did amount of time spent studying calculus and he depended on the honor system but that he did amount of time spent in a gym as he was all excited about going to this is back in his pumping iron phase and about six or seven other variables and what he learned from that is based on previous projects he's done with the student students like the real data that applies to them it's relevant.

[00:22:42]
One thing they learned is that these were much better predictors for women than men. We still don't know why but there were a lot of comments on his feedback that said the women were very intrigued that these were very very good predictors there's an interesting thing that you can teach in a linear regression and that is something called principled component analysis and it's horrible.

[00:23:01]
You do this eigenvalue solution and you end up with these are thought going to vectors and then one of them ends up being worthless because the data doesn't very much. Right. And I could sit here for three hours and explain it to you and no one is going to find that interesting.

[00:23:13]
But when the variable that pops out is not having great variance happens to be one that's relevant to you then everybody understands that variable was age because everyone is Calculus one class ninety nine percent of them are eighteen or nineteen eighteen or nineteen eighteen or nineteen it was a worthless variable was essentially constant and when you have a relevant variable like that then they understand all this goofy mathematics that precedes it hopefully.

[00:23:37]
And before we don't market Well that's kind of. And specifically. Probably the best marketing that this us geeks and nerds are getting right now is the Geek Squad from Best Buy you seen these guys. I love them. I think it's great. But we have to be careful when we do this marketing that way and I'm taking the comments from Fred Donovan who is a member of the Board of Trustees of the alumni association who I chatted with at their dinner but a month ago and I always ask industrial people what's the single most important skill that our students need to have.

[00:24:09]
Five years ago they said statistics now it's basically what Fred says communication and the ability to work in teams and he gave me specific examples of nerdy engineers who can't get out there and talk to a normal human being. Right. This is normal human being be somebody that doesn't think in forty transforms like engineers do so you have to be careful about it but the Geek Squad marketing genius.

[00:24:31]
Right because this is how we're viewed we're viewed as sort of distance. Right but it's marketing genius because normal people like their geeks to look like us until they're walking up the front step to the front door and you think for a minute. Is that the Geek Squad I called a few minutes ago or a Mormon missionary.

[00:24:50]
Those are actually Mormon missionaries and hand they they look a lot alike. So when you're freaking out. You're jamming the hard drive through the mail struts like they get Look fix the hard drive eternal salvation I got that covered. All right so let's move on here. So why not do some different marketing.

[00:25:09]
Right. This is how we market geeks we market geeks by making fun of ourselves and maybe emotionally that's recently helped healthy because it. You know. Keeps us from believing all the crap that people say about us. Right because we take it all in tongue in cheek but this is a cartoon I use all the time because I do numerical simulation and I open a lot of my slides with it and but why can't we step out of this right.

[00:25:32]
Why can't we do what the movie trailers do you know. Like for is young like that damn movie right. Maybe have him push the science right could you imagine that movie trailer. In a world war one man endeavors to use molecular dynamics simulation to elucidate structure property relationships of poly Norburn in polymers in microelectronics peat lot of this is the simulator hurt.

[00:25:57]
I'm hoping that'll work I don't know. So as I said before one of the problems is if we don't get out there and educate people about science and engineering and it's not even this is this was. Issue it's the general issue. You need to know that there is uncertainty in science so that will prevent people from using that uncertainty that isn't known in science against you in saying well you can't conclude anything right.

[00:26:20]
But concluding something the ninety ninety five ninety percent confidence is actually better than most people do and there's an interesting Fallon fallacy that it's explained in a very good book called critical thinking by our. In one thousand nine hundred nine. I have this book I actually recommend that it actually goes into the heavy math of the logic of critical thinking it's a fallacy called the fallacy of false appeal to authority.

[00:26:46]
And we see this all the time right. So the Competitive Enterprise Institute. And I don't know if it's true now. But two months ago when we did a show on it on the radio not a single scientist or engineer on their staff not a single one a condiments where the closest you got the rest of them had political science degrees things like that in fact it was political scientists and economists who were writing the environmental stuff.

[00:27:07]
So that's something that to think about. Unfortunately this shows you how misinterpreted science is because dollar himself picked a bad example. Right. So he points out the Nobel Prize winning chemist Linus Pauling a while ago he had some goofy theories about the immune system and he points to the fact that he agreed with an Australian doctor believe it or not that the immune system could do things like cure the common cold right.

[00:27:33]
And a lot of people still believe it can cure the common cold but really what was more controversial is he believed that stimulating the immune system with something as simple as vitamin C. could actually cure cancer. Now the Australian doctor who first suggested it. They thought he was nuts.

[00:27:49]
Linus Pauling I thought he was nuts of course he won the Nobel Prize twice once in peace and once in chemistry. So people tended to listen to him and we tend to think of him as a crackpot. But as scientists and this is another and thing about certainty theories come and go.

[00:28:04]
They get proven they get disproven. The reason I don't get so upset I so upset. About the evolution stickers on the books in my kids' school in Cobb County is you know evolution we change it all the time I just don't worry about it so much. Whereas my friend Jeff Selman who was a plaintiff in that suit to get rid of those stickers gets death threats.

[00:28:25]
So it doesn't matter what you believe you just need to lighten up just a little bit and that's because we listen to a lot of people that are experts. This is not a good illustration of the fallacy because palling is a biochemist right he invented he basically discovered the structure of the alpha helical protein.

[00:28:41]
That's how he got the Nobel Prize this guy knows more probably about microbiology an immune system than any physician on the planet. So in fact this is incorrect. He actually should be taken at his word and it turns out he was right. Will vitamin C. cure cancer probably not but by stimulating immune system you can two good examples we have now two decades later one the human papillomavirus vaccine right.

[00:29:07]
So that's a big thing the other one is people don't realize that there are general vaccines for cancer we inject them right into the skin. And they stimulate a. Immaturity lymphocyte these T. cells you hear about with regard to AIDS research called the laying her hand cell and there are New York hospitals that have great results of stimulating these things to stimulate the immune system and actually cure certain types of cancer.

[00:29:30]
So it's still foggy we may not know for twenty or thirty years of this is really going to work but now the evidence suggests that he wasn't so full of it as as dour suggested so I'm trying to illustrate by that is it is confusing and this is where I live.

[00:29:45]
I live in Cobb County. And to be honest there isn't a single untrue statement in that warning sticker This is the warning sticker that used to be on the list that used to be on the textbooks up in Cobb County until they were removed by court order. Nothing they say appears is untrue.

[00:30:00]
The Competitive Enterprise Institute that commercial they said about global warming. Nothing they said was untrue there it's absolutely true. In fact as a scientist I have no. Objection whatsoever to the sticker all scientific theories should be considered with an open mind and critically consider we should do one of these on there for gravity and statistical mechanics and quantum mechanics and things like that.

[00:30:20]
I think Jeff Selman who is a plaintive was worried about the slippery slope and again we tend to assign too much emotion to science even religious ambiguity the sorts of things that the reason scientists don't get uptight about it is because it's just science it's not carved in stone.

[00:30:36]
It might change twenty years from now we're pretty sure about evolution but there may be aspects of it. That may in fact change. For example. So I have gastro Sabathia reflux disease used to be called chronic heartburn. Right. But now we call gastroesophageal reflux disease because it impresses people more right.

[00:30:54]
Really they can charge more for the purple pill and drugs like that. What we don't realise is that came about through another crazy Australian doctor who suggested that all service peptic ulcers were not caused by Strasser acid or what most people thought they were caused by your in-laws.

[00:31:11]
They were that cause I think mine are caused by that they were in fact caused by Helio back or pylori it's a bacteria that can actually live in your stomach. And he'll learn from other people that you actually have bacteria that could live in your stomach he had this crazy idea.

[00:31:24]
Nobody believes in the ultimate proof came when he infected him self with it cured it with simple antibiotics. And actually showed that what we thought for decades and decades was all wrong and we just changed it so that's another message I want to leave you with tangentially like no it's just science right now course when you go in and they think you have symptoms of an ulcer they give you an H. pylori test.

[00:31:48]
So it doesn't actually change. And here's another thing I learned I learned this on the comedy club stage. That nobody wants to listen to the we are not trusted and in fact I was down in St Augustine Florida and I started going in on my nerve and I said you know what I'm not making fun of you people I'm an engineer guy in the front row almost it up and said.

[00:32:09]
Well I drive a truck for a living la di da and that's the whole will make me make me laugh. Mr smarty pants kind of thing and it's really annoying but I find that scientists engine years we can't get away with talking about these things and this is illustrated of a lack of trust and we actually did a taped interview with this guy here Blake Clark.

[00:32:27]
I don't remember why Clark it maybe. Kind of hard to see him but he's a good ole boy from Macon Georgia is a stand up comedian he's been in more Adam Sandler movies than Adam Sandler he played. What is it. He was in Little Nicky fifty First Dates.

[00:32:41]
He's the guy that played the character he was an assistant coach in the water boy the one that talked like that. Late night Waffle House chef. You know kind of like well you know go down. It was never a guy. OK so even like Clark in the tapes not very good.

[00:32:55]
So I'm actually going to reenact it for you. We actually played it on the air we were talking about evolution with Todd stream in from the biology department here in Georgia Tech and he has his own theory on evolution he kind of talks like this. Well I was reading in the Los Angeles Times that here in Georgia.

[00:33:13]
They were thinking a remove and the word evolution from high school textbooks. And I'm here to tell you that from Georgia and they went on to say that the reason they're doing this is because there are parts of Georgia where evolution hasn't man excepted yet and I'm from Georgia so I'm here to tell you that there are parts of Georgia where evolution hasn't happened yet.

[00:33:36]
That's the part I'm for. Where L. Golf Tobacco and Firearms isn't a branch of the federal government. It's a shopping list for the weekend. And I really enjoyed his set I actually warmed up for him at the funny farm that weekend and he went on to do fairly progressive intellectual humor he insulted the rural audience from Macon Georgia numerous times but it was OK because it came from him.

[00:34:04]
So that's something we need to keep in mind that right now we are not at the pinnacle of trust. In terms of scientists and engineers. Maybe we need to soften it delivered a little bit better and I will tell you we mentioned this on our last week so radio show An Inconvenient Truth by Al Gore.

[00:34:21]
I really enjoyed it. I thought it was fabulous. I've seen that data for years but he presented it so that the average person can understand that it was really good. Here's the problem though nobody is going to watch it. Why he's worse than a scientist. He's a politician.

[00:34:37]
And he did it from the viewpoint of the average person but the problem is they're going to see him as a politician. So if you've got I think if you've got John McCain up there to present it because he's a politician. They're not necessarily going to believe it.

[00:34:48]
So that's something to keep in mind and I'm not really sure how to overcome that. So let me mention one other thing before we get into some examples of how to fix this fix this and that's what the business community has done to hijack science and technology right.

[00:35:02]
No longer do companies put forward this face of this is the science and technology we do they put forward the face of this is the business interpretation of what it is and nowhere is it more distorted then in these business officials in models. So if you work in the real world some more along the line.

[00:35:20]
Someone came in and said look I got this great editions of my let's go for it. Fifteen years ago it was something called Total Quality Management and it had some good ideas as do the current models but they tend to oversell it it's a bit of an over marketing thing.

[00:35:33]
The current one is called Six Sigma as I want her of Six Sigma and if you haven't heard of Six Sigma Have you heard of sort of there are there are there are second cousins. Or lean manufacturing. Right. These are no other versions of them and they're great ideas.

[00:35:48]
Will lean manufacturing borrows things from some segment guys and Chis in is a Japanese word it's actually Japanese efficiency management principles great ideas Six Sigma same thing. Problem is everyone treats it like a religion. So all six sigma is is taking those confidence intervals that I showed you before on the transdermal drug delivery data and saying.

[00:36:09]
Look if we could keep it such that plus or minus six sigma about the average characteristic and a product was acceptable right that this was within the tolerance of what was a good product and wouldn't fail and have to be returned then man that would mean ninety nine point nine nine nine nine seven percent of these products would be good.

[00:36:29]
And that's a really really good figure to shoot for a problem is there are a lot of companies that make little plastic widgets that are like we should shoot for this because the big companies say so this was originally used in companies like Motorola for Michael or trying X. where you had thirty steps in a process.

[00:36:45]
If you don't have ninety nine point nine nine nine nine seven percent good product coming out of it you take that to the thirty of power. You're in big trouble. These guys are lucky to get ninety eighty five percent. They're actually happy with that. So first of all people are misinterpreting him and the problem is that a lot of folks in business believe that if you apply the statistics here and something called the demand process where you define measure and analyze what the error is that's making your sanity ation be too wide your John.

[00:37:14]
It's all done. They forget about the last two parts improve. Once you figure out that on some assembly line some belt that this right here where you're stamping something out is where you get all the variation right. That's what the statistical techniques help you do it once you figure that out.

[00:37:31]
You actually have to fix it. That's where you get you know you know the operator the engineers and scientists any technical part you know the computer program of the programs the control system because once you fix it. You then have to control it. You actually have to do some work and the problem is that in the name of science and technology this thing's been hijacked and it's kind of ran down the throat of a lot of engineers go talk to an engineer on the real world and ask them if they do Six Sigma and if there's managers around the gaff good stuff.

[00:37:59]
The manager is not around. You may not get the same thing back to the point is it's so distasteful to a lot of folks in business that they have to give it a cool martial arts and see. So you get something called a black belt certification in Six Sigma which a lot of people think is really cool.

[00:38:16]
I think you have to watch out for that sort of thing. Any time you give someone a cool martial arts name it goes to their head. And I know because I got a four year old who's a yellow belt in karate. And every morning. Now I come down.

[00:38:27]
He's there waiting for me in the Queen position looking to go yet another test of manhood that inevitably involves me being kicked in the shins repeatedly. And sounds really bad. I'm just grateful he can't reach me growing yet so so that should be good but it's got a bad for us.

[00:38:42]
Academics we didn't understand this was just a title. Right. So my good friend Martha galah van. Who's in the chemical and biological engineering department. I was actually talking about this. We were at an American Institute of chemical intercession two thousand and four that she cheered on applications of statistical process control total quality control and six sigma she didn't know it was just a title so this is how she showed up.

[00:39:05]
With the actual black belt on. And I don't feel after a first thought well she's wearing this black veil does this any good but it turned out to be very very good because what she did was made sure after the first speaker that tried to go past a lot of time with the iron fist technique of the black all the pros that that was going to happen.

[00:39:25]
I actually suggested to her afterwards that the whole idea could be used to spice up some of the web pages here is your tag. We simply have six sigma black belts going wild and there you go hasn't made it there yet though. So that's just our way of sort of making fun of that another marketing hijack nanotechnology right.

[00:39:48]
So many people have heard of nanotechnology. How could she not right. If you haven't you've been living in a cave is nanotechnology the latest greatest newest form of science and engineering. No it's a marketing buzz word. I want to repeat that again marketing buzz word for one hundred years we've been doing chemistry physics immaterial science.

[00:40:09]
To manipulate matter at smaller and smaller and smaller scales is purely an artificial boundary that lately we've crossed well below the micro meter millionth of a metre to the billionth of a meter right. The nanometer And of course the one and it will never get out of the enemy to the nanometers the size of a small molecule we already do that nanotechnology the air out here individual molecules we've been doing that for centuries.

[00:40:35]
But when you can actually take a bit of things that are actually several atoms or molecules all glued together. And the magic number is one hundred nanometers right because if it's a thousand animators Well it's a micron and that's a micro mated with a micro techno. Micro technology for a long long time.

[00:40:51]
Once you get to one hundred it's easier say one hundred nanometers than a tenth of a micro metre or Micron so suddenly nanotechnology was born and we are seeing neat things that matter behaves differently at the nanometer scale but it's nothing new and it's nothing different. And if you look at all the conferences that are being organized on this.

[00:41:10]
There's one out at Mandalay Bay in Vegas. I believe just next month. It's marketing and business people write the science people realise this is just a cool marketing term just like Six Sigma black belt was as well that we do so much new technology. I actually went to the now technology website figure I look at some of these guys and then I found myself there as well so it was it was kind of crazy.

[00:41:32]
And it's just really just sort of a sexy title. And I've got a lot of dirty jokes about nanotechnology but I believe him. So I don't get Charlie in trouble here but. It's all over the place so many See that's not a particularly good picture the evil one car policy of using that commercial where he's driving a car wash and there's all these cheerleaders in skimpy outfits and he's about to turn in there and then suddenly shows up with the eagle one Polish is like I'm going there.

[00:41:56]
The woman holding it happen to be obviously from the Catholic school it was a nun. That's where they have this thing here. So they've already got you know sheep religious jokes in their marketing to push this thing. Then there was a big. How about in Germany because company that makes this product which is a cleaner and magic Nano which is another cleaner gotten trouble right now because most people see.

[00:42:21]
Nanotechnology is the new thing they're all worried maybe nanotechnology will lead to the demise of the human race. People have written things about something called the grey goo. What if you have heard of the grey goo. Right right. Which we're not even close to yet right. They are in the Spider-Man movie.

[00:42:41]
My kids love that. But the grey goo is what people associate with regular nanotechnology right. Huge difference between what's here and there and now the people that wrote the original Gregg who kind of rescinded that view. They've actually written in various articles that maybe we're not going to get to that point here though all they're saying and I didn't bring the description of how this thing works is just cleaners with little brace of particles and you have that everywhere you have it in your toothpaste right that are smaller and smaller and smaller and if one of the Polish like magic Nano it leaves these little particles that will make a smoother surface that is true but then ninety seven people got sick and the less you think it is the Buddhists Institute of out the room in Germany.

[00:43:25]
I guess that's the Federal Institute for risk assessment got all upset they were going to call the product this sort of thing because they thought well maybe these small particles you inhale them they cause respiratory problems that's what happened. They got respiratory problems. Lo and behold they tested it and they were many many microns in diameter.

[00:43:42]
So they weren't even nanotechnology was micro-manage micro technology was no different than probably the abrasive used in any cleaner that you're going to use in your house and the truth is spray the cleaner around and breathe it in you're going to get respiratory problems in fact when you get down to the very very small nano scale it's actually better because macro fascism various white blood cells can actually grab them.

[00:44:03]
So it can actually be not as bad if you that sort of thing so nanotechnology. This is another example of that. And I'm going to I'm going to skip ahead. This I love doing this for the electrical engineers right that week maybe we should do some these marketing take the Spinal Tap autograph.

[00:44:21]
Multi-meter or so. Isko And of course you call this final have version because the game doesn't go to ten it goes to eleven OK C. then I figured I would appreciate that one. OK So let's talk about the challenges and I know Charlie said it's a clean audience.

[00:44:36]
So you get avoidable Gary but I got to use the F. word here. This is your last obstacle and of course I'm talking about funding. Funding is a big problem and it's going to impact how we teach things because I'm going to be unpopular for saying this but I'm already in popular saying some of the stuff I've said already.

[00:44:53]
The main job of your typical professor here at Georgia Tech is not to teach it is to write grants and bring in overhead. So think of it this way next time you get a professor that puts in an effort to really teach you something interesting in a novel way they're doing it just because they think it's important.

[00:45:12]
Don't get a lot of feedback this is who keep up the good teaching sort of stuff because that's our job our job is to get funding and first of all Mark is now tells me that the division of undergraduate education in N.S.F. which funds this educational stuff is broke.

[00:45:27]
He just got two new grants and a totally different division. So that's being impacted in funding is not too good right now the other problem is because it's so bad. We are working that much harder to get funding and spending that much less time on trying to engage people in science and technology and to illustrate this we actually got a copy of a bootleg film a new N.S.F. training film and hopefully this will turn out OK from the National Science Foundation on the funding of their grants.

[00:45:52]
Is there anything I can say here computers that would be our. No no no hassle with the house or there's no one but no one to your well anyone has ever written. N.S.F. grant five years. OK I don't want to do. OK so how to address this thing I've already alluded to it before based on the paper and math relevant examples students actually find it resentful according to Tom MORLEY When you give them these contrived data the other way to do it and I'm going to claim this is important because this is how the advertisers do it on Madison Avenue humor.

[00:46:51]
What else do the advertisers on Madison Avenue do. We haven't figured out a way to get that one of the class from here. So we're going to skip that one but let me at least run through some examples. I'll skip a few of the size because I got a little bit more than I had bargained for.

[00:47:06]
Relevance in terms of textbooks and believe it or not the textbook used at least it was a few years ago when I reviewed it for differential equations a Georgia Tech used all sorts of examples real examples of putting together differential models and doing that. I'm going to show you an example of how you can take that I guess to a bit of an extreme chemistry nobody likes chemistry chemists OK chemical engineers we can live with it.

[00:47:29]
Nobody else likes chemistry but the American Chemical Society put together something called chemistry in the community that when they talk about organic chemistry and harder carbons they take a barrel of oil and they break it apart and show you where it goes to plastics things like that is really really relevant in a good example of that.

[00:47:44]
If I can i skip this but one of the things I like to do is look at ingredient list and I would tell me what this is the ingredient list for. You probably have more starchy stuff ice cream is close close. Try get something that you would never picture whole milk and.

[00:48:07]
This isn't. Donald's milkshake. And there are people that believe twenty years ago there was polystyrene in a McDonald's milkshake. That was never true and I do a lot of these examples but I like to show this one because in fact people give the McDonald's folks Obama. I mean everything in here even the guar gum that's a plan to extract a diagnosis these are all derived from natural sources so McDonald's not as bad as you thought.

[00:48:31]
And at least that's relevant to a lot of us. So one of the things that does go on here is done by Professor Jonathan Coulton in mechanical engineering this M.E. twenty one ten this open ended robotic design competition last year it was the fear factor theme and they had to what they had to move rats capture bugs and capture flags.

[00:48:51]
Now granted the rats were bowling pins but they did have a lot of plastic bugs. This is the coolest thing ever. You should look up M E twenty one ten on the web here at Georgia Tech. It's going to happen in October. Again and the new theme is Sponge Bob Square Pants.

[00:49:04]
So here's an illustration of getting people really really engaged and he does go to the extremes right. He actually has it sponsored they give out awards. People are right down there judging these sorts of things but the need is part about it is he actually engages people via outreach and everyone has a theme in a costume and they actually do a webcast of the event as it's going.

[00:49:27]
So these guys were some to root and they were groupie to. And the neat thing about it is the outreach takes the form of the themes in the customs just not only by the faculty but by the the kids that show up there. So this is Jonathan Coulton over here pointing out what the rules are and my six year old and my eleven year old actually have forms and we're judging these sorts of things by my daughter Miranda said that she like the two brood one that was really really good except the guys boxer shorts were shown through the two of us and it freaked around so so they get a good score another interesting form of outreach comes from presser Jeff Davis in the eat apartment here who runs the Georgia Lego robot.

[00:50:09]
Attics design competition for grade school and if you go to Lego dot com and download this really cool robot thing they actually use it in junior high. So here's another example of how to actually engage people. I like to engage people in my class by looking at differential equations and everybody hates differential equations you look at these nasty differential equation models and they see where this come from.

[00:50:31]
Let me show you where it comes from we make it up and then we realize it doesn't work and we refine it but that's how we do it. We make it out so I decided to look at the population of people at a party rather than the momentum in a flowing fluids same principle you talk about the rate of change of people with time right that derivatives of the rate of change of people and you have a term that's a constant times the amount of people that's the popularity factor right as a lot of people they want to know one of the party and then you have one that's the crowding factor K one and basically the difference between some critical amount that seems crowded and that is removing people that age is a heavy side function all it is a step function that says look when it gets crowded it turns on that's it.

[00:51:14]
Same thing here. This one is the time function pass some time T. to people get tired go to bed. Right. So when the call that the old person function I didn't appreciate that. But then we actually put in another term. And that's the beverage they wanted to call it something else that started with the BE but I want to make sure we're talking beverage here that for example here is the consumption of beverage that's at K three factor.

[00:51:39]
This is the B.Y.O.B. factor. So it's proportional to the rate. Right. If a lot of people are coming in they're bringing it in that's the B.O.O.B. factor and then you have to put. The let's see this sort of the beer this is the beer popularity term beverage beverage popularity term and the and the beverage consumption term and just in case I slip.

[00:52:00]
I always have a big disclaimer here beverage not beer Let's get that straight. And here is the data that we gave them and what it illustrated is. Very important about science when you fit these big non-linear differential equation models you get more than one answer and that's really really important or since.

[00:52:17]
Another when they optimize it. They might get a different answer than someone else and I took two that were very very close but see here's the here's the people fit and the dash line in the solid line are two different bits from two different actual groups in the class that did this for a chemical engineering class and they fit the parameters.

[00:52:35]
And they found that you know the blue group. Fit one well they had a high study factor they like the study these are the people that were leaving that was that time factor running in a beer as I should say beverage. I'm already violating my own disclaimer the B.Y.O.B. was very very similar.

[00:52:51]
This is the crowding factors of the blue people were more likely to leave and more likely to go home and study but they were more impressed by popular people being there. So our conclusion was and it was the same data the blue of that one where the engineers in the red were the normal people.

[00:53:08]
Right. So this is something the students could actually relate to as they go through this or stop. And let me skip to get to one more example an intellectual defender later who points out that humor is extremely important physiological. In terms of physiological effects it's very very important makes you feel better or makes you more alert it's a really really good thing he couldn't actually point to why it's important in the classroom.

[00:53:32]
So I'm going to simply assume it's the obvious one that it prevents you from dying of boredom and he gives you systematic ways to put humor in the classroom. I disagree with that. What I found in talking with you know everyone from Blake Clark to the guy I'm going up with build wire he may have seen him in in last things I'm opening for him in the funny farm this weekend.

[00:53:55]
You have to find your own voice. So don't look at Ron Burke's method for putting humor in that you take your own jokes your own humorous perspective use that but let me just do one more humorous example before we make some changes and on this. The only. And I have this in here this is the work of my colleague Victor.

[00:54:13]
He takes attendance. There's some funny things you can get out of the personal responses them. He takes attendance and often he gets people saying yes I am here but with confidence and I'm guessing that's an eight o'clock class. And believe it or not if you are a new frankly person here.

[00:54:31]
SIEGEL sponsors a series of lectures I get a lot of lectures on a gauging soon as my colleague press or Peter has got a mechanical engineering actually gives a talk on engaging students with humor in the classroom and I got to play this. If you're a nerd you're going to love this one.

[00:54:47]
This is one of the examples he uses and I love it so much. I don't believe it's designed to be humorous but it illustrates one of the problems we have all the time. Because it knows where it is. From where it is or where it is from where it is whichever is greater for us or to generate corrective commands to drive them in a position where it is and arriving at a position where it was a position that it wasn't the position that it was considered to be.

[00:55:54]
It however the missile must also know what it was the missile guidance computers and. Modified. OK there's only so much of. It could take as far as we know that's a serious. Diatribe from the folks at United States Air Force. Let me conclude with one more example to point out that you can find these anywhere.

[00:56:20]
This illustrates both relevance. If you like Oreo cookies and it's kind of funny and this was my daughter's fourth grade fourth grade science project and we've done it on the radio and I've actually had students fit this in class. So i have i Pod This is about Oreo cookies and it's from spending many many late nights in the lab going to that vending machine for the quick fix later night.

[00:56:41]
You get the aerial cookies out of the vending pack and get the URI cookies out of the store. They're better in the store. How many people have ever had in front of an impact. Are they dry the vending pack their horribly dry. So i Pod This is was they were dry because they have less cream filling and we decided to investigate this.

[00:56:55]
My daughter Moran and I and this is my daughter Miranda a couple years ago and there she is in front of a Mettler balance that we did borrow from one of the labs in Georgia Tech that goes to one ten thousandth of a gram. So she took about two dozen Oreo cookies and here you see them stacked up one of these stacks of the vending pack one of these taxes the regular one which took a lot of these photographs.

[00:57:17]
They all seemed about the same it didn't look as though the cream filling was compressed and what she did. Is she weighed the cookie and then she scraped the filling up. And then weighed the remaining cookies to figure out how much feeling was in there. Needless to say I took care of the cookies and filling and you see an idea of what the uncertainty is so we've got a fraction of one percent and certainly in how much feeling you're removing from there and that's important in terms of scientific disclosure try to impress that upon her.

[00:57:42]
So what we did and my students at the same data and came to the same conclusion is put some of those confidence intervals that we showed you initially on. The mass of the cookies total. We took the higher weight wafer the lower weight way for the way for average in the filling.

[00:57:59]
And it disprove my hypothesis. These are the ninety percent actually these are the ninety five percent confidence intervals right here you see the filling. Spot on. So the filling for both the vending in the store packs are are are right there. We can even the ninety nine percent confidence interval they are essentially the same.

[00:58:19]
What was different was the way for whether you take the bigger one. The smaller one or the average in that contributes a difference in the cookbook it was significant. They are more the ninety nine percent. Statistically different. So it was the way for we wrote to the Nabisco Corp I said we've seen this and I'm very impressed at your ability to put the filling in there exactly the same way.

[00:58:40]
Why is the way for us different are you doing this on purpose because we thought well you know may be quicker. I don't know make their money better reason. And maybe they don't want to mimic as they basically called me a kook and I said never write again but.

[00:58:54]
We don't want to start a scandal or anything so I actually have my students analyze why this happens and I think they're more experienced we can do but it's very relevant because. If you go back and look at the store pack and the laminate package it's only because I do simulations of diffusion through thin films that I know that this is made out of cellophane.

[00:59:13]
Cellophane is a plastic polymer film derived from cellulose like most of the good polymers are so women understand this. Men don't re on is a synthetic fiber. But if you get a dress or garment Iran it's good it's really good and it's derived from cellulose basically ripped off from Mother Nature and of course that's the difference between a scientist and engineer scientists endeavors to understand Mother Nature and engineer and Evers to rip her off basically So this goes.

[00:59:40]
Ray on is a good example of that but cellophane is much better than polypropylene polyethylene all these films you see and it's used for food because it is very low diffusely of water and oxygen through it. This is a metal plastic lamp and it's even better. So Llewyn to foil believe it or not is much better when you wrap food in it.

[01:00:00]
The only problem is you can't seal the loom for oil. It's much better than plastic. But if you put the aluminum on plastic and then seal the laminate it is very. Very good. So in fact would happen and if you notice before these had cookie years that were heavier.

[01:00:15]
So now our new conclusion is that water in the human south here in Atlanta goes through the store bought cookies and actually pops up the wafer so it's not as though you've got less cream filling you just have a more Easter cookie and the best way to do this is repeat this experiment in Tempe Arizona as he would you get so so that that's amazing.

[01:00:36]
At this. That was our conclusion. And there's an example of something that's both relevant and and humorous least least my Since I'm going to get through this one. Because we're basically at a time when sitting at the garage. And hopefully I've convinced you at least with anecdotal evidence that scientists and engineers need to engage society or else nine scientists will jump right in.

[01:00:58]
And all the partisan political issues aside as matter what you believe about those issues someone else is jumping in there and they're non-scientists because we're not getting off the couch and doing our job but certainly something we need to do. And the consequence is a very bad event in society government and business who are making bad decisions about government policy social issues and in business.

[01:01:20]
Everyone's being subjected to these crazy managers with Six Sigma and guys in and lean manufacturing lovely manufacturing they publish a lexicon of all the jargon in lean manufacturing claiming it's very lean it's one hundred pages long and the new one hundred twenty is just some of the end for that one.

[01:01:37]
So it's certainly not good for our fish and sea and finally. The way to do this is with two examples that I think are important one relevance realism in the examples and humor and again we haven't figured out a way to put sex in there but certainly relevance to the examples and humor will help you in gauging society.

[01:01:57]
I'm going to put in a cheap plug for Saturday mornings from nine to ten that Bill Hunt for me. C.E. and I we will be. Let me tell you my robotics actually so we'll be plugging that whole thing that Jonathan Coulton. And Professor Davis will be talking to you about where you can get that on the website all about this like a stuff it will have a special guest a special guest is the guy that I'm seeing for the funny farm this weekend.

[01:02:21]
Build wire. I mentioned him before he was in last comic standing but a lot of people don't know about him is he spent about six seven T.V. shows one of them was Battle Bots. So we'll go I was going to be talking about the humor the humorous and human side of nerds and their robots on from one to ten in the morning on radio Sandy Springs.

[01:02:42]
Let me know if you people. First of all my students at Georgia Tech I show you some data from you. Cheng Kim and the one example I didn't go over was actually put together a lot of the figures that Michael modeling was put together by them. My colleagues I mentioned Peter has before.

[01:02:54]
Mark guys now Matthew Ralph Tom Morley and a number of my Kemi colleagues who shared with me some of their crazy ideas about engaging students and as I mentioned before students actually were first my undergraduate students my research group at Georgia Tech you can find me at Dr ludicrous dot com and that's all I had to say but I'd be happy to answer any questions you might have.

[01:03:14]
Thanks. Not the kind of reasons that lends itself to question you know. No questions at all. Nobody wants to know what George Carlin's like I never met him but I met Alonzo Boden who did meet him. He said Pete Carlin says he likes to take you over the edge and make you glad you came along for the ride.

[01:03:47]
I can respect that. We do have a question I think science fairs are fabulous or you know. Cookie thing was the one that I did with my daughter. Here's the problem. I don't think there's enough diversity and imagination in science fairs have you ever been to a science fair recently to judge when and where they are on crystals ninety percent of crystals right.

[01:04:25]
And immediately I think at the elementary school age you have to be involved in it but there is being involved in guiding. And the point is I didn't even suggest that hypothesis to my daughter I had complained about that for years she said Well I'd like to test your hypothesis like I'm sure that's what you want to do so I got her balance and some cookies and we let her at it and she did all that.

[01:04:44]
Now admittedly I'll do with some of the statistics but the bar graph she made in Excel and things like that and we were not received very well because apparently if you don't do crystals. Nobody cares about what you're doing so I still think that's a really really good thing.

[01:04:58]
These robotic design competitions are great and if you go. What's it called it's got a funny name but this is the only drawback to these Lego robots is the kit is two hundred fifty bucks. So I was not happy about that but we bought it and the point is if you've worked with Simulink or Matlab.

[01:05:15]
It's this full graphics interface and I have difficulty connecting the sorts of things you have to have help with that. And I know that for a fact as I have a six year old who just joined Cub Scouts in the pinewood derby is just coming up and I know full well I'm not letting a six year old near the belt sander some like that.

[01:05:31]
So yeah even appearance do get overly involved. I still think it's important to good thing. I'll pass it on.