Thank you Scott I'm so
sorry rather Thanks.

For coming to Atlanta when I do.

Know Scott and Bruce and everybody here
at the School of Architecture and school

planning and within this part of Georgia
Tech I really appreciate this opportunity.

To speak with you one thing I want to
mention first is that I've just to make

this clear I'm only here because Mayor
can seem read asked me to come here.

Otherwise I wouldn't be here he's
he's has a great interest in.

The things I'm going to speak
with you about tonight and and

in cities in general and
it lay in his place among cities and

all the things that Atlanta has to do to
be a better and better place to live and

I'm talking now about when it comes
to this realm of things design and

planning and so.

Really excited about getting
this chance to work with him and

and everybody in the city.

I'm not very smart about presentations.

In the sense that I never want to say
the same thing twice which is stupid

because you know people that are really
good at it have something they say and

then they say it over and over again so
I'm always coming up with

something new to say time so
I don't know how this is going to go and

I and I'm told I'm going to kind
of fumble around a little bit but

I did decide to mainly talk tonight about.

What I've done before which I haven't done
since I've gotten to Atlanta I've tried

not to say Charleston or
anything else like that about and

partly because it's a relevant in
a way I mean who cares but but.

Also because I just I don't care as
much I mean it's like whatever I'm

more curious about it Lana and
what's happening today but.

Two things the bug has to do with two
things first two I figured there be a lot

of students here so there may be some
interest in you know what I've done before

and how I got here number one and
number two who I realized after

giving Scot the title to this
presentation I don't know.

I really don't know what kind of a city
Atlanta so I don't have a lot to say about

that yet so I thought I would introduce
some things about that tonight but

spend more time talking about.

Other things that the title comes
from the last chapter of this book

chapter twenty two is untitled
the kind of a problem a city is

most people never get to chapter twenty
two course I urge you to start there

actually it could have been
chapter one if you read it.

It's not yes she still angry
at Chapter twenty two and.

Decided least maybe she wrote
it first I don't know but.

It's a great but anyway the kind
of a problem a city is and so

the whole thing this is not my sketch but
but it is about which is very relevant

to me as it relates to Atlanta right now
which is the right way of thinking about

the problem you know that So
this whole last chapter is.

About the right way to think about
cities and to consider them as

projects you know so
it's really wonderful and.

You know her conclusion is that what kind
of a problem the city is is that the per

a problem of organized complexity and
so it goes through that and

then it's got these different
techniques for thinking about that

one of my favorite one that has a lot to
do with what I've been doing since I've

gotten to Atlanta was that you've got
to concentrate on the details first.

And then and then that and then
understand the whole you know inductive.

A way of thinking so
that's why I titled it.

But like I said I don't have a lot to say
about it I realized after giving it that

title so I'm going to concentrate on some
other things like what I've done not

starting with my first job here but
starting with the first relevant job I had

which was in Davidson North Carolina
a very small town.

Very especially small when I got there
I was its first planning director

in the mid one nine hundred ninety S.
It's built around or it's there because

Davidson College is there of course this
is the kind of town it is it participates

in International Walk to School Day OK
that's that's Davidson Right we.

Really cares about itself in a in
the extreme way so I got a wonderful.

You know jump into the pool of really
smart people that cared deeply about

the place that they lived in this case
it was a very small place that was for

the first time experiencing a lot of
growth because it's in Mecklenburg County

this is Mecklenburg County it's
the northernmost city town in Makumbe or

county Charlotte being the center of
the county this is the region this is

the Mecklenburg County transit plan
which we participated in at the time.

It called for
commuter rail to to Davidson and

the other towns in northern
Michael Byrd County.

The the thing about my responsibility
when I got there is as the town's

first planner that they ever had
was to do a plan for the town

they did not have one Throw
it was really built around.

Things that again this is the mid
one nine hundred ninety S.

So give me a break here but but.

You know I'm going to make sure I
don't forget some of these things.

So that So the.

To read a little bit as I go here is.

So this it was a little place.

That really has it has been a kind of a
leader in North Carolina among cities and

towns on a number of things but they
did ask me to to do this this plan for

the town and because people in Davidson
were so captivated by the place it was

incredibly under the microscope
microscope ultimately the plan proposed.

A plan for growth designed around infill
development within a fairly small

footprint of the town it's
about a five square mile town.

The Old Main Street that I showed you in
the areas west to I seventy seven and

then the conservation of farmland in
nature to the east there was active farms

east of Davidson still are we adopted
among the first form based codes in and.

Really that cities anywhere are towns
had ever adopted because at that time

you know the New Urbanist codes that
had been adopted were really done for

private development so
Davidson and was the first and

then others in Mecklenburg County did
these foreign based codes This is a C.V.S.

that was built based on that code and
on Main Street in Davidson requiring

them to go to two stories obviously
with office above the C.V.S. and they

had to connect and build the on street
parking and all those kinds of things.

So we built this we did this one
of the first form based codes and

you know I got news for

a form based codes are not the answer to
everything by the way just it's amazing

how often I hear in public meetings what
we just need a form based code you know

it's like well I think there's some
other things we need first but.

The.

But it was it's helpful for
some things and necessary for

some things.

And you now see elements of that
code I got a presentation of

the rally code recently in.

There were elements to still from the one
that we did in the one nine hundred ninety

S. in the new Rai code we adopted
inclusionary zoning for affordable housing

Davidson and Chapel Hill are the only two
places in North Carolina to have this

we created a nonprofit affordable housing
development company and designed and

built rental apartments in the old
town because the place didn't

have a nonprofit affordable
housing developer at all and

we created Adam adequate public
facilities ordinance generate funding for

Lang conservation in the rural area
which was one of the most controversial

aspects of this the whole you know you've
got farmers you know that you're talking

about trying to buy conservation easements
on property and in the whole process of

getting the town to dop an ordinance
that would generate money to then go by

conservation easements to keep the farming
to continue was quite a quite a process.

This this is a an article from the
Charlotte Observer at the time that it was

it was you know because Davidson was is
such a distinct place and that was so

much pressure on it and the and
frankly the Charlotte Observer was so

interested in these issues they paid
a lot of attention to what we were doing

at the time and
there was this big this is a cover for

while I was in Davidson from time there
was this whole idea at the time that OK

the small town is it everybody's going
to be moving to the small town in

that era of the early kind of
New Urbanism era that so so everybody was

interested in these small town projects
that were going on at the time.

So I moved to Charleston in one
nine hundred ninety nine and

I I did learn most of the important
things that I understand about

design from Joe Riley who's here with me.

Especially that people don't
care about theories and

cleverness you know good sidewalks and

urban of them come from following
some rules that respect pedestrians.

You know my my first job was
downtown Charleston and.

All that that means you know
the historic districts and

dealing with very
incremental growth here and.

The thing about about downtown Charleston
is that which makes it interesting and

I think this is kind of Gordon
call an era of my of my.

Of my professional life because

downtown Charleston the city that didn't
have a big plan so it was built and

designed building by building block
by block street by street you know

people thinking about the relationship
of buildings to the street and

things just at that very detailed level so

you've got lots of little
corking us throughout the grid

even though there's a grid but you go
down something like launch a two lane or

you know some of these really tight
old streets St Michael's alley or.

Beaton's alley or any of them and
really that those A What people

understand Charleston to be you know
that's like the D.N.A. of the city but

it's all this tiny little stuff if you
look at it on a plan view drawing you'd

never see it you know I mean you
never pick up on it it was all about.

You know lots of little
things you know and

the way buildings were arranged in the
materials and proportions of buildings and

the layering that goes on there so it was
a really great experience to spend so

much time in downtown Charleston and
really.

Concentrating on all those details.

And it's interesting to to bring that
you know go from that to Atlanta.

And I've described it before to groups and

some of the might have heard this is the
Charleston is like this little boutique

shop down an alley somewhere you
know that you find in an old city.

The beauty.

Shop that's down there and
you know there's beautiful lighting and

you get there and
the kids aren't allowed in and

then you know you can't
take a drink in there.

And they everything in there is hand
crafted and well preserved of you know

material local mint here that kind
of stuff and so to go from that to

you know the flagship department store
the south is quite a change and scale.

But I do find it interesting to try
to apply that stuff to Atlanta and

why it's been so.

Important I think for me to continue
to try to understand the city through

the people that are here and understand
better and by understanding the the place

it land as a place a few things though
that really are the main lessons

from Charleston as it
relates to any city I think.

One is of course that you just don't
tear things down you know and it's

amazing the buildings that we did not tear
down and Charles and people would go nuts

that would want to Washington Street which
is over by the Columbus port terminal so

these were buildings that were somewhat
isolated from the old grid in context

a couple blocks at least a couple
blocks east of East Bay Street.

But they represented you know it was
still a piece of a block over there

you know a block or
two from East Bay and we went through so

much to save those buildings and
this is another example of that this

is boosting this is earlier on upper
King Street that had a terrible fire but

that was you know another situation
where the building inspector whatever

of the chief building officer comes in and
says it has to be torn down and

can down and of course I said no that's
not happening will shore it up and

we'll save the building
because this is on a corner.

You know this is a very important
building obviously architecturally and

everything the history of the city but
it's also a corner lot and

we definitely don't want to leave
the building on the corner a lot so they.

Restored it and.

So the first one is preservation
The second one is design urban design and

in a real way that I'm going to show
you some slides of Charleston place

which many of you've probably seen and
you're used to hearing about it and

probably tired of it but
I want to mention this one thing

to you that this was done in
the mid one nine hundred eighty S..

I'm not a huge fan of the architecture of
this but if you go look at anything built

in any city in America in the mid one nine
hundred eighty S. I'd like you to compare

Charleston place to that not in
terms of the architectural style but

in terms of the the Urban is a mother
that I would I'll suggest to you

it's better than anything you'll
see go to New York City and

look at anything built
in the mid eighty's.

And it's amazing so this was the lot of
Charleston place in the on the north side

of Market Street between meeting and
and King.

In I guess the late
seventy's early eighty's.

And so the development of this
block was really the catalyst for

the revitalization of downtown
Charleston of course so

the mayor and really fought hard on
this fighting preservationists and

many others to build Charleston
place which is anchored by a large

hotel on think it's in the three hundred
seventy five or so room area and

a lot of retail on King Street but then
there's an there's an indoor aspect to it

there's an indoor walkway mall Khaitan
of thing that connects King to meeting.

And then and then retail fronting.

KING This is where they started
the process of having the height

within these projects
along King in meeting

be in the middle of the block this
is the first of many in Charleston.

We had the height it most of the downtown
area it's at fifty five feet and

then you have to step back and

go up from there to try to maintain I'm
talking about King and meeting now.

So all these techniques that were.

What in Charleston place were ones that
were replicated and many different times

and downtown Charleston but the attention
to detail here was impressive and

and you know the architecture is a little
dated but not much you know it's not

not not terrible and
then the urban aspect of it is

you know it's as good as
it could be I mean so.

This is along King Street here the shops
fronting King Street and there's lots of

this is right at little turn and
King Street is going south and so.

All the way they address that little
little kink in King Street and

everything and buried the parking
within the block and saved a group

of historic buildings on mink on
meeting street and they had to.

Compromise them a little bit but

there was that they were much deeper
buildings on Meeting Street that they had

to shave the backs of in order
to fit the parking garage in but

that those there were deep enough
that they could accommodate retail so

that's where if you know Heineman seafood
and all that that's one of those that's in

that section of meeting where it's you now
have the parking behind it anyway just all

the care that went into every bit
of how this block was designed

you know was was the color of the brick
the you know the all the materials

proportions even if you don't like
the architecture of the porch

anality everything about this so when
you're there again I encourage you to to

look at this closer and then do look
around at other cities look in Atlanta for

instance what was done in the mid
one nine hundred eighty S..

So so preserve what you can which is

most everything the second thing is
urban design and all those details and

how much they matter that the next one is
the public realm this is the front of.

This is the Cooper River waterfront
in Charleston and this is how it was.

When the city condemned
the property you know by eminent

domain there was a proposal to
put a hotel here in condos.

And the mayor.

Took the property through eminent
domain and built waterfront park there

this is part of the larger strategy
to create public waterfront of course

all along the peninsula you know which is
a very distinguishing characteristic of

downtown Charleston and
a great project of the mayors and

of the cities is not completely done but
if you go to where around

the South Carolina Aquarium is they
are now at Columbus terminal the north

then there's the Shire of Charlotte Street
Park which takes you down there's and

there's missing pieces that will get
filled in but the Waterfront Park was

the critical piece of that you know and
giving the waterfront to the public and

how important that was and you know every
city has something that should be public

some kind of distinguishing you know
physical quality to it that should be for

everyone this is an especially
dramatic one but but.

The concentration there and I'll show
you is something we're working on in

Charleston that's a public
realm related thing.

Trying to continue that tradition
of great public spaces and

Charleston but I wanted to mention that
most of you know downtown Charleston which

is about six where Miles the whole city
is one hundred ten square miles so

most of it is typical suburbia
when I got there again

my first responsibility was to
create a new plan for the city.

And it was OK You know but

there's a couple things about it that were
important one was the adoption of this

urban growth boundary for the first
time setting a limit to where you'd have

suburban development that idea had
not existed before and Charleston.

And so we were it was it was
really Charleston County that that

led that process in the city.

When I got there became a partner in that
process to create an urban growth boundary

it's it's a legislative in
the sense that it's adopted by.

The city council and the other municipal
jurisdictions within Charleston County and

then by the county council so
you know it's not like a state mandated.

Boundary that needs some kind of vote
in order to get moved you know like

you have in Portland but since it
was adopted in one in two thousand

it hasn't it's one hundred
percent it's been conform to so

I mean you know it's got quite a track
record now of people with hearing to it so

this is the extent of the city the red
line at the edges the urban growth

boundary with most most most effects
John's Island James Island West Ashley

suburban areas of Charleston I'll tell you
that downtown Charleston is population

had been shrinking This shows you the
historic population of downtown that six

square miles of the city that had peaked
at seventy one thousand people in one nine

hundred forty and it had shrunk in half.

You know so the plan our plan
was to try to have the peninsula

population get to sixty thousand
eventual that was the goal.

And if you looked at the regional growth
that was certainly achievable that's

a region that expects to get to

something like a million people in about
fifteen years that clearly downtown

Charleston as we looked at it
should be at least sixty thousand.

If you've been to downtown Charleston
you know it's very built up so

where do you put you know an additional.

Twenty five thousand people on the
peninsula of downtown Charleston believe

me people there wondered that as well
the answer is really the red areas on this

map and I'm not going to go through all of
these the yellow areas of the his store.

Neighborhoods.

The red in the middle is some of
the central business district but

we started and
this is this is really an example of for

me how planning department should work
in the sense of leading the community

when it comes to how it will physically
grow and develop over time such that that

growth is about the communities future
not an individual projects future and

so we were very aggressive and
really the city planning department for

the city of Atlanta was the one that had
the conversation with the citizens about

things you know whether we agreed or not
we were the ones having that conversation

not you know individual developers you
know just kind of following them around

as as and reacting to what was happening
this is an example Morse and drive this is

a part of the city that we really wanted
to grow a lot so we we did a plan for

what the what we call the Upper Peninsula
and the idea was that this

is an area where you'd have some taller
buildings a lot of density there should be

you know old industrial properties here
smoke commercial property underused.

So we went through this process.

Did the plan created designing ordinance
that essentially was a was an incentive

ordinance that said you can go taller
in this area if you do these things

if you use sustainable practices in your
construction if you build affordable

housing if you build public
spaces under those circumstances

adopted by city council last year in
Charleston under those circumstances you

can get taller buildings and so.

You know that was.

A big part of the strategy
downtown another

similar example this is along King and
meeting street and.

The circles around areas where I'll talk
about in a minute the king and meeting

have the best public transit and in the in
the Charlotte and the Charleston region.

And always will just they're the most
accessible the hope there is to

go to more Fix God way
transit at some point.

But in those areas the preservation plan
was recommending that these transitional

zones that called them in purple here
are opportunities for density and

downtown Charleston because the
preservation plan was saying preservation

of downtown Charleston requires that
this place grow that it's not static

how that happens is very important but
within these purple areas we acknowledge

you should have density mixed
use all those kinds of things.

And so

this is an area the city where we've
been seeing some development this is a.

New apartment building
on Meeting Street and

see how how narrow the sidewalk is here
and across the street from it you have

this which is a new apartment building
not about the architecture but but

imagine the kind of the pedestrian
orientation of this building

in terms of you know a traditional
street I mean this is a blank wall and

you know with blinds at
the when I mean it's just so

far away from where we wanted up or
meeting street to be it was alarming So

we had this kind of situation where we
wanted density in these areas we had bad

sidewalk conditions that were coming
about and we had some folks that

the Evening Post publishing company
which owns the Post and Courier and

other newspapers around the country in
other media they were investing in twelve

acres of land up here and there
aspiration was to do something great and

essentially leave a legacy to Charleson
it's Charleston not New York but

their idea was not far from Rockefeller
Center in terms of the scale of it or

the importance of it in terms of defining
downtown Charleston so we can so

we came up with a new zoning ordinance for

this area where we we
allowed some additional.

It was not as much as we
did on up on Morrison but

where we allowed some
additional height here and

density provided you did again certain
things you know you had to step your

buildings back essentially had to
give some land to the public around.

Because as I showed you that one
photograph we had these very tight

sidewalk conditions so in the under the
condition that you step the building back

further from the sidewalk you can get some
additional height and it was very specific

about that and then the other thing was
the ground floor use of course not a new

idea that Lana has parts of this but that
you had to have active use on the ground

floor just looking at what was happening
in other parts of meeting street.

In that same part of the city we realize
that with all this density that we're

proposing for that area it was going
to get suffocating you know we needed

another public space this is public spaces
in downtown Charleston in green here we're

proposing a new one and in the center
there that little yellow square.

Which is this site where all this
density we were proposing and

where density was happening.

A block south of those
buildings I just showed you

is this site which is currently.

Which is currently I'll show you some
pictures on the ground of them in a minute

but it's actually a U.-Haul So
you Hall still operating on the site and

so we realized that with the density
happening around here we were going to

have to acquire land for
a very significant public square and so

we looked at similar sized spaces around
the country that are just show we've

looked at many of them this is a couple
This is Jamison square think it is and

the Pearl district and.

In Portland which is a great space
it's got a wacky fountain but

you know that it's one of those
interactive fountains but

it's it's wacky there
it is it doesn't look.

It's wacky here as it does in person but

anyway this is great it's got
you know it's got along on but

it's got hard skate it's a really
well designed public space and.

Of course Union Square in San Francisco
as well which you know we were looking

at places that also could accommodate
events and things that's an issue in

Charleston we've got so many events want
that want to be there in a really puts

a strain on Merrion Square looking for
a place to kind of siphon some of that.

Stuff so we did the city the city
planning department did this plan for

the square so
we literally did the plan you know and

then you know we drew this.

So OK the.

To and

to get the property owners together on
this you haul was not thrilled about it.

But.

In the property owners together get
a bit organized which is like the sea

ids here so we could generate some
money to implement this thing and so

I got I think a couple Yes So
here it is now that's downtown sure

Huston King Street just near spring right
the middle of the historic district and

some renderings that we did These
are fantastic renderings OK but

they're OK.

Terms of the quality of them.

So you know you've got
to have some capacity to

to do things I think in
this in this business.

Another thing about downtown Charleston
and that that that space that

I was just showing you was at
the southern end of something called.

The Low Country low line it's.

You know about this.

This is a this is a small little
child to the beltline it's a mile and

a half of Norfolk Southern right of
way that goes from the upper part

of the peninsula down to.

That square that I was showing you to that
square would be the southern terminus of

this low line and.

So it's a very similar thing and to the.

You know bike pedestrian deal

consideration of transit in
this right of way as well.

Going to the suburbs I want to give you
a few examples there I'm giving these

these examples because I wanted you to
understand where I came from because right

now I'm confused so I had to go back and
say what was I doing before so

here's a couple other examples just
to remind myself of nothing else so

this is a this is the end
of the suburbs out here and

West Ashley west of Charleston and.

You've got these two big suburban roads
out here be Serry road and Glen McConnell

park where they come together right here
and in an area that everybody knew would

become a big commercial center
you know for Charleston for

the whole Charleston area and
when we went out there.

This is early two thousand the idea for
this intersection of Glen McConnell and

beast Ferry Road was that it would be
a typical cloverleaf intersection you

know I mean anywhere you'd see on
an interstate so we asked D.S.E. D.O.T.

and everybody to get together and say see
if we could come up with had water to last

if you know him on this on this charrette
with us who's the best traffic engineer

ever and so he started coming up
with these ideas for the thing and

he drew out this West actually circle
idea I can't believe we're building it

frankly because I didn't know that
it would work and it may not.

But we're building it anyway but
the idea was that with this thing

with a cloverleaf interchange of
course the problem is the traffic

problem is that everybody there's only one
way through it or there's only a couple

way through a couple ways through it so
you've got these four quadrants of.

Which is what the expectation was
you'd have these four quadrants of

Shopping Centers.

Everywhere I mean you
know it from every place.

The idea here was that the circle would
be a main street and then you'd have

a network within it so there be many
ways to get through this area so

there was an aspect of it this is why it's
getting built because the engineers can

understand this that was traffic
you know raw traffic stuff you know

let's disperse the traffic rather than
putting all the trips through at one or

just a few intersections so
this is really what got it built.

And this is kind of an image from that
you're at that was done at the time of how

it would build out over time so
another rendering of that same thing so

this section of it was built quickly there
was one quadrant of it was that was built

quickly then the city committed to
building the rest the other three

quadrants so the other three quadrants
have recently been finished.

So again this is an example of
the city going in doing a plan coming

up with an idea and then investing
in the public aspect of it and

then asking and
then we actually rezoned this

as well to a as owning district
that permitted a lot of density.

And that kind of stuff so that's a part of
the suburban world we were working in this

is a different kind of suburban project in
that same part of the city this is the old

mall in Charleston which
had been abandoned like so

many by newer models
it's called several mall.

And this is it so we have we have
got a lot of vacancy it's had some

significant vacancies you know
there's talk there's been talk of

anchors leaving it's got right now
believe it or not has see or still J.C.

Penney belts Dillard's
there's a target there.

So there was a sense that first of all
the interior part of the mall didn't

work at all because that's where there
was a tremendous amount of a can

see the tenants in there like
the typical ones had left long ago.

And now you had you know there was
a railroad museum in there that was so

like you know a lot a cosmetology
school you know when there was a.

You know big fitness center and
that kind of stuff so

its status as a mall was gone so
how do you how do you deal with this and

it was huge it was really the it's really
the Charleston place of the suburbs

there because it's the sense that this
place which is in the center of West

actually is really dragging down the rest
of the suburbs so how do we rebuild it so

we went through this red process and.

Came up with this point and I'll tell
you some of these anchors were very

helpful in this process Belk in particular
which was very interested in this so

the idea was to tear down part of the mall
not all of it not all the anchors bring

a street through the site and then in fill
with additional retail I think we had

coming back with three to four hundred
thousand square feet of retail.

Including structured parking.

Residential four hundred fifty to
five hundred units residential.

Some anchor office spaces.

Hotel and a public use and not a Tory
in that case really built around public

spaces this is the plan view of that and
then the.

Kind of public space diagram that came out
of that process because the public spaces

the main street that would go through
here with the residential above and so

forth and even though there's a couple of
more significant public spaces within it

were very important and so the city went
through a process we call them tiffs their

tax increment finance district not tab but
creating a tiff for

the mall district and actually some
larger area to provide some public money

to help implement this tremendous
amount of interest from.

From developers in that process so
that's where I came from and.

Now a little bit about where I am
some some observations about this.

In case you don't know it Lana's one
hundred thirty four square miles has

a population that's made a population of
Atlanta today is four hundred thirty one

thousand people which is even less than
I thought I mean some people might allow

recently but but the Atlanta region itself

is eight hundred eighty I'm sorry eighty
eight hundred square miles it's as big

as that at the end the conversation about
what is the region as a separate thing but

is it as big as Eighty eight hundred
square miles including as many

as twenty nine counties one hundred
forty seven municipalities with the with

a population total regional population of
as much as five point six million and.

The region is the country's
ninth largest an.

Atlanta as a city however is
smaller than Charlotte El Paso.

Louisville.

Fresno California Virginia Beach and
many other places that you'd probably be

surprised to find that were smaller than.

Atlanta's regional So the city of Atlanta
is actually the fortieth most populated

city in the country the ninth largest
region the fortieth most populated city.

In the city's population is is less
than ten percent of the of the region so

this is a chart showing and I've done
this when I was in Charleston but

of different cities in the country as
it relates to the share of the regional

population that's within the city and
I'll get to these numbers and

I'm giving you some numbers here but
I'll get to the numbers in a minute but

I just want to set this a little bit
because this is there's a sense you can't

look at this and say there's not some
significance here I don't I don't think.

To this but.

You can see New York City's population
of more than thirty five percent of

the region.

You know and and Atlanta really is on
the low end of this percentage and

and I'll make my statement come back to
the sense that nobody nobody I understand

that nobody that lives in a place
cares about numbers like these I mean

on some level I don't care about them but
I believe for Atlanta to be a better and

better place to live it needs to be
the fastest growing part of the region and

it can.

I guess.

It's not about the numbers for
number sake it's not about density for

density sake none of those kind of things
it's just that it Lana is a is a place

that has continued to grow out so
much that it's always grown further out.

It's so distinctive and that pattern that.

The you know the the direction right now
is in the other way you know it's back

into the city and the closer into areas in
the areas for lots of different reasons

that we need to organize ourselves
to take advantage of that mean and

and I mean that in a very
positive way in the sense that if

the city of Atlanta has
a population was twenty percent of

the region twenty percent not a huge I
mean you know twenty percent of the region

we have a city population of
one point one million people.

I don't know how many people ought
to live in Atlanta I don't know but

I think the more the better the more
people that are in the city and the more

jobs that are in the city the better
a city it will be it's almost like and

I don't mean this literally of course but
that you want to cram people in

I mean I don't say that in public meetings
by the way it really is putting out.

But I don't mean it like that you know I
mean I don't mean it that you just do it.

To get people but but there's something
that comes from that density that will be

very positive if it's properly
deployed Scott was talking about my

my points about the city design project.

You know figuring out where we can add
those people where you could add a million

people to the city that would make
it a better place to live there is

a city was such suburban neighborhoods
in some places that the contrast from so

suburban to very urban and
inland is so significant and

that's not to say that we won't always
have those that spectrum of places we

will and to do a plan that could protect
that that whole set of lifestyles

is important but
within the context of that.

Growing so densely in ways that are
productive for the city is is just very

important to me I and
I think it's I mean it's just

something that we have to really deal
with and figure out how to accomplish and

that's the way for Atlanta to be.

You know not competitive I want to say it
that way I mean I think that's true but

just in terms of really just a better
place to live in the future it's better

the more people we have living here and
working here.

You just make just look
at some notes here so.

Many people have made much
more skillful observations

about Atlanta than I have than I have or
will any time soon but

it's interesting to me the I'll get to
this last a lot about some some kind of

things to think about as we get
into our panel after I'm done but.

It's it's as someone
that's new here it it's.

It's a little overwhelming
how disconnected the city is

you know when you go back to Atlanta.

That was founded it was you
know it was it's here for

the railroad you know the Railroad not
here for us they built the railroad and

then they they kind of built a little city
around it they grew into a bigger city but

that's unusual right I mean usually the
transportation is there to serve a city

in this case it's not that it's
you build the city around.

These railroads and you can kind of see it
in this image from the late one thousand

nine hundred to your but but how
significantly these big industrial rights

of way affected the shape of the city and

then later the highways of course but
you know due to the scale of Atlanta

the relatively suburban scale
of the city overall and and

and of the small number
of citizens sit people

in the city relative to the region
I think the impact of these big.

Infrastructure projects and especially the
more recently the highways on the city is

more dramatic you know it's
a it's a bigger mountain

to climb in terms of
issues around place and

design and you know urban streets and
all those kinds of things.

The you know and I don't I don't
really mean to pick on Court One so

much but.

I mean if we want to outlaw took
a picture of a street that was

you know not a great place to walk we
could all we could find lots of pictures.

I mean.

This one just happens to be
fairly close to my office so I.

Try to avoid it but but the.

That's kind of a prelude to this set of
observations that gets to the kind of

the city Atlanta is and
then we can go into some questions and

all that with Scott and Mike but.

I guess impressions of mine you
know are that the scope of this is

is really kind of overwhelming you know
I mean I think it's you kind of have to

acknowledge that though because
it kind of the just the.

Not that I have no interest in Atlanta
ever being anything but Atlanta and

I don't want to import any ideas to
try to make this city Charleston or.

Any place else I'm only interested
in about figuring out Atlanta but

within the context of that.

In my dealing so
far people's thinking about streets and

the way they work and
public spaces is all is so

out of whack that it's kind of like
you need to shake everybody and

say wait wait a minute I mean are you they
dreaming or what I mean this is a really

big project we here to try to address
I'm just saying the scope of this is

really really big and
coupled with that is that it

seems like there's a new conceptual
framework that has to be that has

to come about you know I think at least in
my life and I know a lot of people that

are from the backgrounds that I have think
of cities in certain ways and there's a.

There's a conceptual framework
that usually guides thinking about

how you see how you make a good city and
how YOU BETTER a city you know and

I think in Atlanta this case because of
the scope of it and just the history kind

of the infrastructure history we need
a different conceptual frame I don't

mean this coat totally de-couple
de-coupled from the good D.N.A.

of what cities are but
just the conceptual aspect of it and

how you think about the city's growth and
we talk more about that.

And then more on in my realm
that that everything that

we're doing needs a lot of
attention you know I mean the.

Our capacity in terms of design.

In our capacity in terms
of of guiding growth and

you know doing some basic planning our
capacity in terms of zoning you know how

we deal with transportation issues and you
know there's many good things happening

here when it comes to transportation and
Margot's plans obviously the.

Other things you know I don't just mean
the train when it comes to morrow all of

Martha's plans the discussions about
street car there are many good things

around here but within the community
I think there's a tremendous

amount of work to do as a relates
to getting around Atlanta and

how with a million I mean even if it's
not a million and a half people whatever

the number is if we're going to continue
to grow as a city how do you get around in

that city how do you afford
a a a lifestyle that people will will

appreciate and and you know that's
better than it is today which means

getting around to I think our capacity
to do these things really well

you know is a very important
part of my work right now so.

Those are my observations and I think
the next thing to do will be a Scott and

Mike right are going to come up and
we're going to maybe take questions and

have a conversation about this or
anything else that you'd like.

The an

a.

Have you got likes.

OK.

I do OK.

OK he's got a question
well let me first so.

You know who Mike is on can you hear me
most of you know who my Dobbins is butt.

For those of you know my dogs is
a professor practice in the school of

City Regional Planning and
is a as a past commissioner so he has.

Tremendous insight into
the the delimiters probably that Tim is

is facing right now so I guess I'm Mike
was in my position you won't believe

the things he wrote on the bathroom wall
at city hall really I was embarrassed.

OK I'm kidding so
just to follow up on Scott.

And Thames comments.

People in the audience generally feel
that what you're hearing sounds good.

I'm OK and
I'm speaking as a veteran veteran.

So you need to let your city council
members know you need to go to the end to

you meetings and let them know you need to
get to the mayor and say hey this guy is

really a breath of fresh air for this
city planning sort of went into a decline

in the second term and surely Franklin's
tenure that's over ten years ago so

the kind of leadership I was talking to
Chuck Schultz surlier today who survived

the planning department for a while but
now he's at the county school board so

this thing is we have an opportunity
with him as a leadership and

his vision and his background experience
and his orientation to really

do something useful and I'm very pleased
that the mayor actually saw that I or

somebody it is stature so
that's my short introduction.

And you know I don't
write on bathroom wall.

But I did make a lot of sketches and
I bet you did.

So I guess I would.

You know I need to Atlanta to in a little
bit you know I grew up in rural Texas but

also Dallas so but then I've spent a lot
of time in New York you know in Atlanta

and so I'm I'm going to pick up
on the Korean people in common.

You know you don't see that in public
meetings but but you said it here.

Like that you should be able to say things
to you that you can't say in public

meetings because those are probably the
things that need to be acted on you know

that that you probably
feel passionate about so.

So how does it happen well you won't know
what are the mechanisms that the city

has to to set that in motion Well I
think the first thing that we have to do

see that the problem right now is that.

You know for me and you know is
that we're we're we're not really

we're just reacting to everything so
every conversation about density or

you know height or traffic or
anything we're kind of coming into and

then you know and
then everybody's decided you know and

that's just doesn't work at any level
you know we'll never get anywhere so

the first thing is to basically to

establish what this conversation should
be we have to do that you know so

that you're not always reacting so
every conversation we're saying now but

remember we keep saying that this
is where we're headed as a city and

try to explain to people why that's
in the city's best interest and

their best interest that's the only reason
to have a planning department is to is to

help people navigate these things
not take notes you know and and

that kind of thing I mean it's
really to say here is what and

this the cramming in thing is
interesting because there's I've had

a number of conversations about this since
I've gotten here and it's there's tricky

aspects of this but when you're
looking in neighborhoods and and

and people are arguing about whether
the building is going to be five or

six stories and this kind of thing and.

You know and that's where you feel like
people are losing sight of something

you know that it's like well what's the
difference you know I mean when you really

look at it will that because that's
where the argument has been drawn

there's over five or six stories
that's what we're able to argue about

you know what it's like well that's
not very relevant you know I mean to.

I mean what's the street going to be like
I mean what's what are we trying to do

here and the hardest part for people is.

As you know from most people their thought
about lifestyle has to do with how

long it takes them to drive places I mean
this is a big part of the equation for

people and and the reality is however
long it takes them today it will be

longer than that in the future I mean
that's just I mean I don't know unless.

You know something horrific happens is
the idea that you're going to go somewhere

that takes you fifteen minutes now in less
than that in ten years is just completely

not going to happen so if that's what is
really really important here lifestyle

then we can't help it you know the thing
about it is though that if you want to

drive less far or you would prefer to
walk or ride your bike to something

then we can do something we've got
something to work on and the funny

thing about that is that for people
that won't ever get out of their car.

Will drive one hundred percent of the time
they benefit from density they benefit

from other people not having to drive
as much because it's it's such a simple

equation the only way to deal with this is
to get people somebody out of their cars.

You know so I mean.

So the cram in thing what that's what I
mean by it is that there is a real real

value to properly you know
having density in and

the more people the better kind
of mentality about things.

And you know somebody needs to
counterpoint that in this crash that we

talk about one of the points to follow up
on that you mentioned in your talk about

something that I experience when I get
here which was just before the Olympics

that the history of this city is a one
off city it doesn't really focus.

On connectivity which you made
a point which I think is really vital

there was a period really from about one
nine hundred eighty nine when the Olympics

began to get planned and
about maybe two thousand and

four or five where connectivity
was sort of understood and

drove a lot of the kinds of decisions
that were made and another point that

you made I think that's really important
is that you've got to have some kind

of vision you've got to have some kind
of sense of where you're going and

then you've got to arrange your decisions
around does this help that vision or

not so I think the you know
the important thing is for

this issue of connectivity in reasserting
and in my day we were able to get for

example the head of Central Ana
progresses You mean connect the dots

that sounds like a good idea there
are a lot of dots downtown and

part of what the Olympics did was
actually build sidewalks between them and

wide sidewalks and you mention in
Charleston the narrow sidewalk and

there are a lot of devices that can
do that and it might be good for

everyone to hear about your
zoning initiatives and

I would say that in the context.

Two of the team although
actually sort of the team or

the city when I was in fact they worked
in my office in fact Aaron Fortner and

Caleb Rasik over graduates last year
sitting regional planning program and

break it and we had a design team and
I know you've talked about the importance

of figuring out a way to
reassemble the design team so

then that fits with the zoning.

The zoning here is like
many cities dates the sixty

seventy zero it's been added to many
many many times to the point where you

it's hard to know what you're supposed to
get from the ordinance you know I mean so

it's basically kind of a way to talk
about individual property rights and

think now there are exceptions to that
because there's been great things done in

the zoning ordinance More
recently I guess it's.

Are to with midtown when they did
their whole you know plan and

created zoning to that that
allowed it to happen and

things like that big that
came after him in midtown but

really the project that we're working on
is an overhaul of the whole ordinance so

to look at potentially
a completely new way of

regulating Landis' which really
needs to tie it self obviously to

where we want to go as a city
the big design project but

I'll tell you that there's a lot of things
that need to happen in Atlanta soon or

you know because a rewrite of his own
ordinance if you look at any cities of any

scale that have really totally rewritten
their ordinance you know it's taken four

to seven years you know I mean we
went through Philadelphia raly.

Denver and New Orleans one of the city
that had done it recently done a good

job it took them a long time and so there
are some things that we want to do soon or

you know within the next six months
that are in this big zoning project.

So.

One more question we will open but

I'm actually I'm just curious as I don't
really know in Atlanta about incentives

what the city can do to incentivize
Schiff's in development

and in the kind of you know bring in
private development as a way to start

to implement some of the gold
you have about density.

You know the public room yeah I don't know

exactly what incentive is the city
there is that there's a base

incentive that I don't think we have much
of which is density I mean in the sense of

you know where you've got people
that where you want more density and

they don't already have it I don't know
that we have a lot of those situations so

like the one I was shown in Charleston the
bases owning there was such that it was

an incentive to them you know
to do what we were asking and

I'm not sure the degree to
which we have that opportunity.

In Atlanta there might not if
there's got to be Song Yet

you want your team members was
instrumental in getting a very similar

thing but you know Ira to do this and
right yeah so

I bring this is what motivates a company
like N.C.R. to move to midtown.

Well I mean I think that mainly was

well there's two big aspects
of they wanted to be in a.

More urban location with better access to
transit and then the incentives in that

case are pure economic development
incentives through invested land so

there's not a planning in the sense
of what we're talking about incentive

there.

If.

We well we it wasn't quite like
the neighborhood planning unit system but

we had a neighborhood council system
is what it was called there when you

hear.

Yeah well good question the so

the my interest is in doing a big
city design project that basically

a stablish is where we want to go
you know and it gets pretty specific

I mean I think specificities important you
know plans that don't get specific and

put off hard decisions and conversations
for later tend to be very frustrating so

go ahead and in this design project really
have some difficult conversations about

transportation mobility density
where it will be how it would be and

so put together this design and

it has to the client is the citizen
are the citizens of Atlanta I mean that So

the the Met There has to be a mechanism
that such that they own this thing.

And it it should be the N.P.C.
system you know I mean it should be that

I'm not sure it's ready to be
that right now but but but

in this process it needs
to be rehabilitated

you know to the extent that it can be you
know that it that at the end of that N.P.

you system within the city which
is a great concept is capable of

you know managing this thing from
a from a citizen client perspective so

that you know that that
will be a challenge.

You

know.

Yeah I mean not really I mean the you
know we've got bigger problems in that

I think it would be the main answer.

You know the I would say that I mean
you know better than me I mean I

spend spend a fair amount of time around
Georgia Tech and around Georgia state and

they use center and things like that.

I don't sense any I mean.

People may laugh about this I don't sense
a whole lot of tension between the student

population and
the rest of the normal population is.

Well yeah ownership I mean I don't know
that that's an interesting I'll say with

this about that I mean one of the things
when you really need to explore is I think

building types and especially housing
types as and I started thinking about you

know it seems like there's there's
a relatively narrow kind of slice of types

right now being built in the city you
know you've got a you've got a concrete

you know twenty to thirty story apartment
building you've got a five six story wood

frame over podium type and then but
the city traditionally had so

many other types you know that really
aren't contemplated much in zoning and

you don't see a lot but in when you go
in the traditional neighborhoods of

Atlanta you see such a great variety
of types that allow for ownership or

rental you know in a much more kind
of neighborhood setting that seems to

me that should be baked into how we think
about the future of Atlanta too and

it's not just the very small number
of types that we're employing over.

Did I did I mention
the cramming in thing you know.

I mean.

I want to talk about
the street car generally.

That the thing that the one thing I'll say
about the street car is only this I think.

That.

We have some very hard decisions to
make about our street rights of way and

in the sense of.

You know part of the part of the deal
if you're living in Atlanta needs to

be more and
more that you can not drive and

you would happily choose to use to do
that you would happily choose to not

drive over drive like it's more
enjoy able it's more affordable

it's more fun it's
interesting whatever and

it and it and it makes sense from a time
perspective you know I mean that it's not

ridiculous you know the so.

The streetcar conversation at some
point I think then has to evolve to

how do you dedicate space to these
things whether it's a street car or

something else how do we create room for

beyond the belt line within
the city space for transit and

so you know that that's the only thing I
really have no that's the only thing I can

really critique about the three cars is
being in the traffic you know as a as a.

As part of a real lifestyle equation for

citizens you know it really needs to
be dedicated I mean we have to figure

out how did that space get allocated
the street cars and maybe a little bit

other things but I think that's the most
important That's the biggest challenge.

That will be the biggest part of the
conversation we have in the city design as

it relates to mobility is how to
actually dedicate space to public

transit more places and the land and
street car and other things.

Right.

You.

Well couplings I mentioned it relative to
Davidson We did have it in Charleston too

and in Charleston case it was tied to
density because the base densities

you know were not enough for people so
there was a built in incentive so

we could say if you build or if you rezone
to this is owning you have to build

low and moderate income housing is part of
it and people everybody want to do that so

you know because the base
density wasn't there for

them I don't think you have
that as much in Atlanta so

you don't have that trigger However
as it relates to inclusionary zoning.

That that the Atlanta community will
have a chance to vote on that and

I don't mean city council I mean you and
everybody else in the city

in a very specific way
soon because invested land

I have been working with us brought in
a consultant to really evaluate this and

has been doing focus group meetings with
developers and all different people to try

to figure out a policy and ordinance
that that they think could work for

Atlanta and so we have that and
that will come out in public.

And while I would big debate about it and

see what we want to do if you look around
at cities everywhere as it relates

to inclusionary zoning a big part of the
discussion is what how does the community

invest in it because there's an aspect of
looking at this which is well we'll just

get the developers to do it you know if
they've got the density that they need so

we don't have that incentive built and
OK well we'll just get them to do

you know just just make them do it they're
going to take on the burden of this and

that just doesn't it's not going to happen
you know I mean so then the discussion

becomes how does the community invest in
it and they'll be a proposal with this one

as to how we invest in that affordable
housing and community I think it's a smart

and very smart approach and
we'll see how it goes it will be.

I can't yet I mean it'll it'll be out

you know this this will be a public
discussion soon in the next few months

he did say something that everyone
needs to hear well it when this public

discussion happens if the people who care
about this issue are in the room it won't

happen.

Yeah OK And so.

The region the regional projections
are that the region will grow by

two to two and a half million people over
the next twenty years that's a projection

of the Atlanta Regional Commission which
has to do with lots of computers that

they use.

Where they're coming from I don't know.

But they're coming calling I think data.

Big Data thank you work that in.

The.

So how do you track them in
the city I mean obviously

it seems like the there's an aspect of.

Attraction that already exists right I
mean people want to be in the city now

more maybe the now before.

But.

Downtown OK yeah down because really
downtown has a very small population and

downtown Atlanta whatever
we we decided and

this is the thing we got
to bring that we've got to

I don't know if it's a million and a half
or one point one or what the number is but

the idea is to bring in some people that
really understand that as good as anybody

else around the country to help us
think through what's the right goal for

Atlanta in terms I'm going to
get to downtown the second but

what's the right goal for Atlanta in
terms of our population when you consider

the regional growth that two two and
a half million over twenty years when you

look at what's happening in the South when
you look at what's happening nationally

what's the right number for us I mean can
considering some you know some aspirations

that we have I mean there's a baseline
right there we're going to grow but

one of those things we have to do to get
to you know that we need to invest in

to get that number to accelerate
that number if we decide that's

the right thing to do and what is that
number so to bring somebody in to really

help us think through and get a solid
number that's really smart when it comes

to downtown I think it should take a huge
percentage of that growth whatever it is

you know that downtown Atlanta should I
don't know what the percentage is but

I'm talking twenty five thirty
forty percent a big percentage.

Because it's there's so much opportunity
there as you know under use property and

that's where the cramming in these to
start right so and really there's a lot

of there's a lot of assets there to build
upon is the most accessible location in

the region transit wise there's so
much infrastructure there.

And you know I guess the tradition
of Atlanta as has not been that but

but the direction within the market is
there and I think one of the things

we can start doing is make
making incremental investments.

In.
It's not a big project I don't think I

think it's a lot of small things and
and helping people to work

in South downtown and you know the central
line of progress and all the little you

know it's all the lifestyle stuff downtown
it's a lot of little things it seems to me

to build up and take advantage of the
momentum that exists and propel it even

further around the lifestyle related stuff
downtown that you feel safe you've got

services right nearby many services not
one grocery you know twelve initially but

I mean everything's within a short walk
of you all the kinds of services you want

in the good news is there are some big
players down there that want to invest

in downtown Atlanta and make it that
kind of place so the timing is good but

it's it to me it's all about lifestyle
related things downtown that it becomes

an urban lifestyle that you don't have to
leave your apartment and drive somewhere

to do anything you know that you're really
comfortable not just not just single

people but families everybody that it
attracts a whole variety of people because

the lifestyle is a very urban one
that's the best place to do that in

the city.

And.

The question was about the Buckhead or

the Peachtree road bike lane
conversation you know I think.

Again in the reactive mode there I
as it relates to that specifically

I think I came in at the end of that and
I'll say that.

And in the O.T. had a had to do
something there because they got to

reap stripe in everything
their safety issues on.

Peachtree Road that relate to car
crashes and pedestrians and cyclists and

everything so they they were
faced with a project to improve.

Safety and so their approach was say
OK we're going to improve safety so

let's really think about this
we want to bring bikes in and

everything which is what they should do.

And it's a great thing that they did that
but the community reacted so negatively

you know the thing about it is you don't
really have a constituency there for

this I guess the way I thought about
it is I would never you know you don't

want to go play the Super Bowl you know
in your first game would be good to

have a few exhibitions you know like

I mean what I mean though is like can
we work in an area where we've got some

constituency is there some hard work
to do on Memorial for instance.

But there's a really great constituency
a memorial that probably would really

like that you know so let's work on
Memorial let's work on Marietta and

how mill you know places that
basically we've got to catch up to

when it comes to urban isn't because
the developers are already building it or

there's lots of plans to do it so there's
a strategic aspect to this which is

important you know I you don't I mean
what happened on Peachtree happened and

shouldn't be shocking probably but we're
going to have to be smart about how we

work on these things you know let's
work strategically when it comes

to that kind of a project that we're.

Connecting to you know that
we're making a grid you know and

all those kinds of things but we're
working in areas where we have a built in

condition that is favorable to
success you know which we just did so

I just chalk that up to you know thank
you D.O.T. for trying that we just didn't

the circumstances from the community
standpoint just weren't there for

that to happen.

It shouldn't as.

Yet.

Yeah it's a good

point.

Well it's a city Yeah it's a very
difficult transitional period no doubt

going from you know such a car dependent
and all this car infrastructure

into you know that's of that is a it's
a sausage making process no doubt but

where we can help is through the zoning
work we're doing right now because we

do need to as a city and this is one of
the this is one of the areas to work on

immediately not wait you know to
the ultimate ordinance we should start

by having maximums of parking and
you know totally

reorient reorienting everybody's
expectations about parking

where there's transit you know by
those train stations by street car

all that kind of stuff I mean that is
the place to start no doubt about it and

it's a very big challenging
issue I mean I you know I mean.

We need and the other thing is we need
more things like Paan City market in

the sense of people really going in and
not just putting in the bike racks or

having the Zip Car location out there but
really thinking about how you live in this

place without a car and
the architectural aspect of this is

big because I know I see a lot of
stuff which still not all of it but

too much of it that looks like
suburban apartments being designed and

built in the city you know it's kind of
like well but that's not what people want

that's not you know that's this whole
thing of that's not what you're going to.

That's the high you know want to live you
know the most important things going to be

worth your bike you know I mean that it's
a comfortable way to live with a bike or

not driving all the time the.

Process of getting in and
out of your unit where you store things

how you how you take care of that
stuff I mean those are the things

that matter when it comes to actually
being an enjoyable place to live and

enjoyable way to live you know but
we can help

with the zoning work that we're doing and
and frankly even without the zoning work

that we need to change the zoning that we
need to change just by how we review and

approve projects you know I mean we
can only go so far to some degree but

there we have chances to effect
that even without zoning change

so.

We're going to speak you

know.

How do you want.

The thing is how you go to another get
the power full stakeholders developers and

community dressed in Atlanta to well a few
things let me start with the last thing

you know for me since I've gotten here the
response from the development community

has been very positive and
this way I think.

You know there definitely is a sense that
there's an opportunity here in Atlanta

to really grow as a city and that it's
going to be difficult to do that without

the city leading that process so
I mean I think there's.

A tremendous amount of support within
the private development community not

everybody but
I mean plenty of it that supports and

an active aggressive city when it comes
to leading on growth and development and

design issues because they recognize
that's going to be important to build

in Atlanta even though there's going to be
compromises and decisions they don't like

the status quo is not going to stand the
test of time and things like the M.P.U.

process and the zoning and other things so
I think there's a there's a built in

desire to help make this work on
the private development side of things.

As it relates to the schools
it's a huge issue and

they're going to be a partner
in our city design project.

Because you know obviously we don't
grow to a city of a million and

a half people you know without the schools
being a huge part of that and as you know

there are innovations happening in the
Atlanta Public School Me system there's

great examples of of that and and
there's opportunity to do more of that and

I think it starts on
the west side of Atlanta.

We've.
Got a choice neighborhood application that

HUD's given us for
they use Center area and

there's a tremendous amount of effort
that's kind of organizing in and

the west side to to make that
a better place to live and to protect

the people that live there now and allow
that area to grow in a dramatic way and

the schools are going to be fundamental
to that I mean I think that's the area of

the city to me where you really
concentrate your work on the schools.

So there's a lot of question.

What.

That.

Question was about the separation
of you know you said about me

I can't write can't repeat it.

Just how divided Atlanta is you
know demographically and and

how does that tie into the issues
around mobility and other things.

Well you know the city's
not going to grow you know

first of all I think that there's
there's amazing ideas around

there's a there's a basic threshold
issue here which is how do you deal with

the people that are there now you know
the people that live here now and

I think we haven't gotten to specific
things that address that concern and

we need to quickly and
there there will be.

A whole effort on that issue which is

start with that you know that that this
is not an issue of displacing people and

you can't just say that or say Wolf
we'll figure that out later or you know

that'll come in Phase five whatever that
has to be the first thing you do is say

how are we going to deal with people
that are here now and such that they're.

This place.

Then you know the it's already
happening in some areas but and

other areas where it's not looking at
once and that's dealt with how you then

those areas begin to really grow
grow I mean grow it all and

in a lot of cases areas where you've
got concentrations of lower income

people in Atlanta there is no growth
there hasn't been for a while and

there will not be without a really good
plan and strategy around that and so

once the displacement issue is addressed
head on how do you then begin to.

To.

You know do things that enable
growth in those those areas

I'm thinking west side I'm thinking
Pittsburgh you know areas like that and

and and
how do we invest in those areas and

some of those investments might not be big
dramatic things that might be relatively

small things obviously
having to do a safety and.

And blight related things but but beyond
that into again in those neighborhoods

what do they need you know what are the
first things that are needed to improve

their lifestyle and how do we get those
there what's the investment needed from

this team of public partners that are
working on this and then how do we how do

we create an environment where more people
want to build more housing there and

how do we bake in that that housing will
be of mixed income in the inclusionary how

to housing piece of it so
all that needs to be addressed and

you know the mobility part of it is
this it's you know in a way is the same

conversation we have a about
all of that land except for

the streets on the west side are not
congested for the most part.

You know there's not a street capacity
issue there which maybe lends itself to

some real you know
possibilities in the short run.

In figuring out how you know the I want to
come some ability the first answer I think

though to the question is that those
neighborhoods become more diverse and

more mixed use.

And therefore people don't have to leave
the neighborhood as much for jobs and

you know and and for services I mean
that's the big mobility wise and

very low income neighborhood right now
the biggest problem is to get a job

you've got to go somewhere else or to get
basic services like health care or or or

wash your clothes you have to go somewhere
else so I mean the from a mobility

standpoint the first thing is to not
that you don't have to do that anymore.

But where that is necessary and

obviously that communities are very
much a part of everything we do from

a from a mobility standpoint from the big
investments down to the bike share program

that gets that gets put out you know that
those neighborhoods are part of that.

Harmony last question answers.

Which you know to question
the middle Tim I do this quickly.

So you are a photograph of
you at the public meetings by

Turner Field dealing with the relocation
of people in the drainage issue and

all that and I know that was complicated
it was good to see the planning director

planning commissioner out in a meeting
it's kind of been an invisible thing for

a number of years now so
I want to compliment you.

For that.

Something you could bring to us here is
the advice but I mean the advice business

something you could bring that of that I
believe you exhibited in your photo from

Charleston to here you're a great
shot of a street before and

after it was pretty much a line
of beautiful utility poles

trust me i can we can go up to
Buckhead in front of her maze and

Warby Parker and and Max Scoggins and

Merrill in loans world class
library there transformers and

Korea's so poles and big bundles
of cable that are all over the.

Street I do not understand how
this our city can claim to

have world class architecture but we're
going to drape it with Georgia Power and

Bell South utility lines so if you
want to up an incremental but up but

up maybe not an easy thing
to do take that one on.

Here's yours and here's the question.

Zoning rewrite the zoning
ordinance is too complicated.

Kind of share your logic there in the
short run what are your what are a couple

of the priorities that you want to
tackle before you get into that rewrite

of the one zone you want well there's a
list of them there some things some of it

has to do with things that are really
overdue there's this is a really technical

fault but there's been a desire to have
a mixed use industrial zoning district and

the land for quite a while to help enable
some of these old industrial sites to get

redevelop and that's been on
the you know front burner for

I mean it may be a couple years and
hadn't gotten done.

There's an effort around micro housing and
Tiny Houses Roberts here from

southeast and they're going to be
leaving a lot of that there's there's.

The parking thing is a big deal
you know the parking brags.

The.

We've gotten some really good suggestions
from some different people including

Eric cron cron well who's an architect.

Kronberg He's an architect he
does great work in the city and

he's really analyze
the ordinance as it relates to.

Things that make it harder to do all
the things that we say we want with

the neighborhood a little bit some of the
really small scale things that architects

would know about but
it's a big laundry list of stuff so.

I've met with architects
who have been trying to.

They're really finding that the zoning
ordinance does not encourage.

Preservation and
additions to existing historic

homes in our neighborhoods you know it
basically because of the way it's written

it really more encourages tearing it down
and starting over those things can't wait

you know because there's so much of
that going on that's just a few of them.

And OK I think we have to wrap up.

Tim Just thanks for taking time I know
you have a very very busy schedule but

it was a great talk in
the great discussion and

just on behalf of the College of
Architecture and you know this but

we're we're partner in we look forward to
helping you and working with you because

in others there's capacity issues in your
office in terms of what you can do but

we want to do whatever we can to help you
kind of like you I do have one public

service announcement about it which is
that in thinking about all the capacity we

need to build within my department that
means probably that I'll need people that

are skilled and talented so if there's
anyone here that skilled talented and

in need of a job any time
soon you need to contact me.

To.

To.

To.

Thank you.