That was a massive.

Thanks.

Yes Thanks for having me here.

I'm really excited to talk about
this project that we have going

on at Georgia State.

So we just pull up the power point here.

Yeah so I'm going to talk about
this Georgia State Digital Library

project that we have going on right
now it's called planning Atlanta.

I don't know if anyone anyone
has visited the site or

played around with it not
seeing any heads nodding.

So then this will be a treat.

I think for people especially
because you guys are you know

studying city planning this
is what this is all about.

So this is something I hope you guys will
find useful but so I think my talk today

will probably be a little bit different
than most of the talk so you guys have in

the seminar because I'm not really going
to talk about my research while this

is I do consider this a research project
I'm not really going to talk about.

My research aspects aspects of it but

I'm more going to talk about how you can
use the planning Allana collection for

example in your research and
how it can be used to better understand.

Elana social and built environment so.

So what is the planning
Atlanta collection.

It's a lot of things but
I like to describe it as a dynamic

digital collection that encourages
new perspectives on Atlanta.

And about a year ago we received
funding from the National damage for

the humanities which we
are incredibly grateful for

because this really helped us
expand the scope of the project and

it started off as just a map project and
then we wrote this big proposal.

And it got funded so
now we have all this other material

that's going into the collection so we're
in the first year of a two year grant.

So if you guys you know go to
the planning Atlanta site right now and

just remember that it's in
development right now it is not

not all the content is available and there
are some so known issues with the site but

we have you know a four
year to to work those out.

So that's a little bit about what
the collection is like conceptually but

obviously it's a it's a it's
a digital library collection so

it's made up of content right and
it has a lot of content in it and

all this content is related to city
planning in Atlanta metropolitan Atlanta.

So if you just look at some of
the items that are in the collection or

that will be in the collection.

There's going to be over three hundred or
I'm sorry three thousand Geo reference

maps and those you use G.I.S. you know
to Geo reference map is basically we're

putting geospatial properties into the map
and the digital geospatial properties so

you can use this in our G.I.'s
you'll be able to use these in

you know the maps and
Google Earth and Google Maps.

So it's really really making these maps
useful for research and for teaching

something that I'm really excited about
is this demographic data set which is

something that very few people know about
unless you've been around for a long time.

Chances are you never
heard of this data set.

Unless you work at a land
riddled commission.

So I'll talk about that
a little bit later.

It is something that I really want to
see people use this is really good

potential with the we're going to
have like over three hundred planning

publications that we're digitizing
all from the city of Atlanta and

a Regional Commission and
some other entities in and around Atlanta.

You know just specifically does or
planning proposals documents about

planning to really get information and
another thing we have in the collection

are all these photographs Georgia state
we have the Atlanta Journal Constitution

photograph collection which is
I don't remember the number.

I want to say like over five million
photographs is probably even larger than

that is just unbelievably large So what
we're doing is we're going through and

were not going through
everything that's impossible but

we're going through the ones
that are somewhat organized and

pulling out the ones that depict
a lot of the planning activities that

are portrayed on the maps and
in the planning publications.

So you know when you have an urban renewal
map from the one nine hundred sixty S.

We have photographs for
example barbell bottoms that.

So you'll be able to see you know
the map of but still be some documents

that talk about what are most bottoms and
then we have photographs

that show you what part of looked like
you know before the neighborhood.

Was you know torn down
through a renewal and

what it will take during that process and
potentially afterwards and

then another really exciting
component of that photographs.

You know project these are all kind of
projects within this large collection.

So for the photographs.

We gots N.E.H.
funding where it goes is great and

we have graduate students
researching the photographs and

what they're doing is they're going at the
photograph has a date on the back of it.

They're going into
the microfilm collection and

looking up that photograph to
get more information about it.

So they can describe what's actually
being depicted in that photograph.

So we reached out to the Atlanta
Journal Constitution and we said.

Hey you know we have
digital microform scanners.

When we get a photograph and we find
that article that's associated with that

photograph and we scanned the article and

included in this collection and
through our absolute of a minute.

They said yes so this is really
going to give you some excellent

contextual information about
the photographs and just in general.

While planning activities in Atlanta and
then we're going to collect some oral

histories from some different
neighborhoods and we have this

really exciting nine hundred forty nine
aerial Mosaic Project that we're updating

you're referencing all of those stitching
together as one unified overlay.

So you can view it as it existed from

aerial photography in
nine hundred forty nine.

It's going to be very exciting.

It's going to come online
I think within a month.

So it's going to be good and
then the news the dish into this project.

This is going to continue to grow
even after the grant period is this.

We've got about seven hundred
sheet maps of that tax district

maps of Atlanta from the one
nine hundred thirty S.

is a Works Progress Administration
project we actually partner with

the city of Atlanta watershed Department
they have a lot of maps there.

And so we have scanned all these
We're going to put them out make them

available and what's so great about
this is that it lists the address of

every single house in Atlanta in
the one nine hundred thirty S.

every single building which
is pretty hard to come by.

So it's it's it's pretty nice.

All right.

So that's that's all about the material.

So I really think that this collection is
more than just a collection of content.

It is something I think
that the planning project

is really something that is an example of
what's called generative scholarship and

anyone heard of this right.

No And not too many people as.

This is a brand new concept.

You know what's behind the concept
has been around for a while and we're

the heirs if anyone knows of him he is
kind of the pioneer in digital humanities.

He is currently the president of
the University of Richmond and

he did some really early digital
Manny's projects and he gives talks all

the time about digital humanities and has
a lot of really interesting projects and.

So two years ago at the edge of
a conference he gave a talk and

he really came up with this idea of
generative scholarship and that talkie.

It was basically a call to have more
projects that are generative scholarship

and in his call.

He basically he kind of defined
what generative scholarship is and

I was going to read the first part of this
quote because I think this is the most

important part.

So what areas that is we need digital
spaces built around significant questions

important for knowledge creation an
excellent for teaching in many contexts.

And this next part I
think is very important.

They can sustain of original discovery by
thousands of students each of whom will

see a unique pattern in complex evidence.

So this planning Allana collection
I really do think that it is a form

of generative scholarship because
this is this can sustain so

much research students.

Researchers can go to this collection and
because there's so

much content that's all related they
can look at different aspects of

planning in Atlanta and
come to their own conclusions.

And then and
I think that you know this collection.

It really is built around a significant
question and that question is.

Basically how was it led to shaped and
reshaped during the twentieth century and

for those of you really
familiar with with Atlanta.

It was significantly reshaped.

In the post World War two period and
even today.

I mean all.

Organ of violence are but
a ladder for shore.

Was radically transforms so.

There's enough about kind of
the theoretical background of the project.

So this guy actually get in and
look at the collection and and

see some of the material that's
available for everyone to look at so.

So he went to the Georgia state library
and you clicked on digital collections

you would have a lot of different options
the virtual digital collections but

if you selected the planning Atlanta
collection you would get to this

what we call a landing page and
you could search up there in

the search box you could search all
the content that's available right now or

you could go to these
individual sub collections.

So say you're only
interested in playing maps

you would click on the plane
a map to take you right to it and

one of those images will take you
to these different collections.

So just as an example let's start with.

Let's go into one of these and let's say
you looked at city planning maps because

this is really where
this whole thing started.

We discovered we had all these city
planning maps that were on catalogs in

the library and in the second I saw them
I knew we had to do something with it and

then I discovered we had all this
other content in the library that was

just amazing.

So anyway so if you so
you clicked on the city planning maps.

And then you look through
some of the different maps

that say you came across
this map right here.

You thought it was interesting.

Which is a one nine hundred fifty
two land use map of Atlanta this is

a map that I talk about a lot for
many different reasons.

It's appealing to a lot of people
because first of all it's very colorful

it's very pretty.

You know it is for our cartographic
you know design is pretty nice.

It's actually a hand colored map but

that's not I could care less about how
the map looks and how beautiful it is.

Really what I care about is the
information that's displayed on the map.

And so this map right here
from one thousand fifty two.

This is inefficient for many different
reasons but it seemed that one hundred

fifty two was the year that it let a large
portion of the surrounding area and

there are a couple smaller and
I say after nine hundred fifty two.

But that's basically what the city
looks like today is a little bit more

property down or
area down on the bottom side there but.

So what you can see in this map.

You know this area around there is
really where it land was built up and

then all those other areas where
you see basically nothing.

It was a lot of what was annexed so
right into really talking more about

the map and
this tell you about the collection.

So we wanted to make all this material
in the collection as accessible and

as useful as possible so obviously that
it meant we were going to reference

the maps to make them useful so you could
display their geospatial properties.

So we wanted to give people maximum
access to all of the material so.

You could download his download if you
clicked on that you can download a full

resolution J peg of the map and if you
click on where it says geo to if you

download that show to if as he just bring
that into our G.I.'s or Q Yeah whatever.

You're using and do sophisticated
analysis using the map extracts and

layers if you wanted to you can
open this map in Google Earth.

Just click on that button and then let's
say you're teaching you want to show this

map and a class and
you know you're in your classroom.

You have no control over your computer
unless you brought your own be

willing to bet that computer does not have
Google Earth on it probably doesn't have.

R J S on it so
it was very important that we had these

maps be able to open in a web
browser in Google Maps.

So that anyone you had.

Ask you know your I.T. staff to
install a program on your computer.

So you can just click on Google Maps and

that will open up and
I was am very thankful for

our web programmer to add Nelson to
who figured out how to do that so.

It's a large team and we're all.

Well learned a lot of stuff together.

So OK So let's say you click on that
map you viewed it in Google Earth

that's I have screen shots of Google or
so that's what I did so.

So this is the map one hundred fifty two
land use Map opened in Google Earth.

Zoomed into the area
just south of downtown

which we all know is where
the Turner Field area is Summerhill and

Mechanicsville on the other side there and
I cropped the legend.

I just superimposed a legend over
there just for this demonstration.

So you can see what
the different land use is there.

So I brought of this map just to give
an example of how how this material.

Why it's if you can how it can be used for
research for

teaching to make pretty important points.

So if you look at the Legend you'll
see that green represents single

into Family Residential you know
basically homes orange represents

apartments and red represents
businesses and so if you look at kind

of the center of this map here just south
of downtown where it says capital homes.

You see that that is
pretty mixed used area.

If you have a definite mix of apartments
single family homes and business.

All right next to each other.

And that's something that you know

obviously everyone in this room would know
much more about than myself but you know

I think that's something that people tend
to view as desirable and when you live in

cities you want to live close to something
where you can maybe shop go to the market

when have different housing options and
that definitely in one hundred fifty two.

That was from just looking at.

Map that was that area and I talked
with people who lived in that area.

You know before the stadium came in and
they talk they have fond memories of being

able to walk to the market and
things like that and.

So what you could do with these maps
you can because they're in to Earth

you can change the transparency so you can
see how things have changed over time.

So I was going to change the transparency
if you kind of focus on that center area.

You'll see that.

Basically one more time.

With that large concentration of
the mix used was that that entire area

was eliminated with Fulton County Stadium
which is now Turner Field and

then the highway interchange
there which is simply enormous.

So all that area was was

torn down through I would element and
urban renewal and later the Olympics.

So if you.

You know you may want
to ask more questions.

Well how did that come.

How did that happen.

You can get some more detailed
maps from the collection.

So this is the area just
to the west of the stadium

which where the stadium currently is now
this is the neighborhood Mechanicsville So

these are some maps from
the one nine hundred sixty S.

very early one nine hundred sixty S.
I think is the urban renewal maps.

So you're looking at land use
maps in this map right here.

And you can't read the legend but
this is showing it's depicting

the structural conditions of buildings and
if you see a solid circle that means

that the city planning department and
all their wisdom deemed these

buildings as structurally unsound to
the degree that they should be torn down.

Yes.

Yes that is so that is not available
right now but we have a team of graduate

students Geo referencing these and they're
pulling as part of a meditative field.

They're taking those coordinates and
then eventually what we want to have

is a spatial search component
to this collection.

So right now you can just do
like a keyword search and

you can type in like Mechanicsville or
urban renewal and

those maps will come up but
because we have the metadata.

Once we we already have a couple platforms
that we know of that you know we can just

put these maps in there put those better
data fields in there with the coordinates

and you have like a bounding box and

then you zoom in the closer you get
to the area you want on the side.

It will bring up all the maps
that fit that parameter so but

that's not available yet
that is a feature that.

I want to see at some point it will come
with that to get more funding for that.

So.

Anyone has a lot of money.

You know we can talk afterwards so and

then here are some more maps you know at
the neighborhood level same Mechanicsville

pretty interesting where
the one over here.

The areas that are out there are these
are areas that are going to be cleared or

that the city planning department said
that they should be cleared they totally

bulldozed and then here is
a redevelopment proposal which you know

you have to go in the collection and look
at it more closely but what I find really

interesting about this is that there is
virtually no well there's almost no and

no commercial of the development there
there's just basically residential and

a lot of public housing which I
find really interesting right here.

It's all public housing and if you look
at this map today in the collection and

you change the transparency
you'll see that

it's definitely not with
what went in there.

So there's a lot of different.

It's really neat there's a lot
of it's hard to see in this

the way this is projecting.

But there are a lot of little
parks right there with

baseball fields as in one thousand
sixty baseball was very popular.

I think more popular than it is now but

you know you can see what City players
were thinking at the time right.

Even though these plans
never came into being.

It got to give the city plenty
thought process of the time.

Maybe maybe more than the dominant
one because maybe the people with

radical ideas.

Not really get to work in the city
play Department I don't know but.

But this is a record of.

City Planning I said cities and
thought process.

So you may be asking you know
well why do they want to get

rid of this mixed use area there
are many different reasons but

if you explore
the collection even further.

And you look in the publications.

Somebody in this room are familiar
with now for tomorrow which was.

I guess the second master plan and
regional plan for Atlanta.

The one that was more widely accepted and
in the beginning of the book there

was a quote about Makes use and it says
in fact there are many instances where.

Land has been used for
mixing conflicting purposes making unhappy

neighbors of land users which is based
which are basically incompatible.

And I think I don't want to take this
out of context it was more talking

about industry being right
next to residential areas but

I think you can think more broadly about.

Really you know the goal is to kind
of to compartmentalize land use and

so this other publication in which
is one of my favorite publications

in the collection which is.

I could talk about this forever.

This one publication and
I mean just the title alone.

Shall we rebuild again you know really
speaks to the ideas of the day.

But so here's a quote from their land
use such as mixing uses which are not.

May promote blighted conditions.

This publication and

I'm actually working on a paper right
now about the cons of the blight

during the fifty's and sixty's and
this is what they think leaves the blight.

In this publication is just
absolutely fascinating.

And of course makes one one
thing that will lead to blight.

According to this publication.

So.

So I don't talk about this one concept for
a while but I find it so fascinating.

So this is just another example of some
different content in the collection we

saw this one hundred fifty
two land use map and

sticking with the theme of mixed
use basically land use and

you can look at the one hundred fifty
two example and use in the area and

then this is the same area in one
thousand nine hundred eighty eight and

this is a city planning map depicting
land use and you can see that the land

use imposed by the city is completely
different very compartmentalize.

Almost normalized if you can say that but
yeah so.

So this is one way that a student or
a researcher can go and

use this collection this is one of many
many hundreds or thousands of ways that

people can get insights into how
the city has changed over time.

And so we're going to move on now and just
give a couple more examples of the maps

and how the other material is related talk
a little bit about some photographs and

then I'll end with talking
about the data sets and

I'm not paying attention to time at
all because there's no clock in here.

So.

This next image is

a map from one hundred fifty eight and
you have to forgive me as I said

my area of interest is one hundred fifty
S. and sixty's and early seventy's.

So that's what I'm using a lot
of the examples of today.

So this is a map.

Of Atlanta one hundred fifty eight.

And I assume really really close here in
this is pretty close to the same area

just south of south of downtown and
you can see the highway is these

dash lines here and you can see that they
are the highways going to come through.

Capitol homes which is public housing and
you would

assume right that it's going to go through
those buildings that they're just going

to demolish those buildings which would
be you know that's a logical conclusion.

So if you started looking through
the photographs you would find

that we have this photograph in
the collection that shows Capitol homes.

It shows one of those buildings and
from this photograph.

I've already know what's going on but
it is a clear what's going on.

Does anyone want to make a guess.

I guess I was not clear.

So you might look at a photograph
a couple homes but what are they doing.

But because right I said that
we are we can locate the article

that was associated with
the photograph we include that and

you can't always locate the article that
someone wrote the wrong date down or

you know you just can't find it but
this one we did find.

And here's the caption underneath
the photograph and if you.

I'm not going to read it but

basically they are moving those
public housing buildings in one

piece to a different location of the city
which is I think pretty interesting.

I don't know how useful that is for
research for

there's just an interesting
little tidbit I guess.

And then moving on to another photograph
which is a group of people right.

We don't know much about it.

I do know a little bit about it but
just looking at this.

You wouldn't know that much about it
right but you can see some people.

I'm very short so
I can't reach up there very high but

like this lady doesn't look happy but if
you look at all the other people they look

happy right especially this person right
there and there's a lady right up there.

If you can see she looks
incredibly happy her right.

So it's a happy group of people.

And so you want to know what
they're happy about right.

Pleasing them.

So we look at the article.

This group of white people
from this is from one thousand

nine hundred six this group of white
people is pleased to learn that they.

So they protested this
is the caption here.

The road residents protest
Negro subdivision application.

So basically that person who owned
the land who wanted to subdivide

his property just said I'm not going to do
this anymore we have four hundred people.

You know crowding the cab county
city planning commission office and

so this person saying
I'm not going to do it.

So that's why you have a group of
what appear to be friendly people.

But probably they're happy for.

Not the best reasons.

So this really gives you insights
into the planning in Atlanta.

You know in the one nine hundred fifty S.

and through the sixty's
just a fascinating look.

It's a different thing.

So and then this last image that
I have here of the photographs.

I had to get one color that was more more
modern more recent So this is a photograph

from one thousand nine hundred and
you're looking at his residence.

Clearly they're looking at
a proposal right this lady may be

pointing toward her her property.

I'm not I'm not sure.

But if you look at the publication or
the article here so

that is a those residents are looking
at a proposal of what was called

the outer perimeter
anyone ever hear of that.

So if you look at this image right here.

It's hard to see I know but
you can see the circle right there.

So that's the you know that's
the two eighty five perimeter.

And then this is the proposal for the
outer perimeter which is if you look at

that makes the two hundred five look and.

Credibly tiny So
this is just fascinating to think

about that proposal and yeah I mean
it was you know still the ninety's

there of you know anymore highways I guess
I don't know maybe we still are in there.

I don't know.

And OK so that was just me
examples of the photographs and

the maps and publications OK great.

So I could go on and on about other
other things in the collection and

I'm not going to I'm going
to I'm going to go on and

on about one more one more element
of the collection and this is the.

The data collection that
we have the data sets so.

This is that data set that I assume that
most people never heard of in this is

a Regional Commission data set and

it is this is in the photo I think
I have most of the publications.

So I'll give you a little background
about about this dataset and

why I find it so interesting.

So when I was I found it discovered these
maps in the library you know I started

researching it actually have a background
in urban history so I did it with the maps

when I saw them but I started researching
more of the specific activities

the maps and you know just going
through the the general collection and

and I was looking at some publications and
I saw this this row on

the shelf in the you know Population and
Housing looked like you know because I

work with census data all the time and
and I looked at I was like

why why is the Atlanta Regional
Commission Republic Xing census data

every single year was just a waste of
paper basically because if you're familiar

with the way the census collect this
data as a prior to two thousand and

the two thousand census was just
every ten years there was a.

American Community Survey.

So I looked it was like
this really weird and

i almost as they walked
away was like OK whatever.

But you know because of curious.

I pulled one of these some of
these publications out and

started flipping through them and
I realized that

when original Commission knew I was new to
the land at this point so I realized that.

The air or sea was actually

producing their own estimates of
population housing for Atlanta.

You know from nine hundred fifty
five to two thousand and three.

Even still tilts to this day and so

these in these publications
are yearly population

estimates down to the census track
level for all of metropolitan Atlanta.

Which is just absolutely fascinating
how they have variables such

as population by race.

Housing vacancies.

It's not as extensive as you know the long
form and or the American Community Survey.

But still this is a very
unique dataset and it.

It only exists existed in print from one
thousand nine hundred eighty five to two

thousand and three.

There's no.

You know digital copy I think they are see
they scanned some for internal use but

they were just P.D.F. so when we
decided to do what I saw this is a big

fan of census data information and
so I we got it.

We got to do something with this.

And I knew we had to extract the data.

So what we did was we.

We we contracted We partnered with this
company called geographic research

that produces a database called simply
map because they have access to it here.

I'm not sure.

And they actually extracted the data for
us.

So basically this is what it looks like.

This is a copy from one
thousand nine hundred two.

Again with my theme from
one nine hundred sixty S..

But this is an example of some of
the different data tables in there and

as it said you know the one
that I'm most interested in is.

It's table ten.

I believe population by
race by census track.

And so I'll show you this this is
what it would look like you know

just this is an image of
the publication all this great data but

when it's like this you can't
you can't do anything with it.

You can if you have.

You know a team of graduate students and
like yours.

Working on this so.

But now that we contracted or
partnered with geographic research.

We have it available now for
download in Excel and C.S.V.

so you can manipulate the data.

It's not an actual database so
I want to take on a project that would

be outstanding but still now is useful
right usable data is tabular data.

It's not in a piece of paper or
in a P.D.F.

You can start manipulating this data and
now because it's tabular right.

We can bring it into our G.I.'s
we can visualize this data.

So what I have here is
a very rudimentary map.

Right.
This is not this is not my best work by

any means but.

This is what I did was I took one variable
for one decade from this dataset and

this is nonwhite population which
basically means the black population

for the city and for
all of metropolitan Atlanta at that time.

And so this is by population
in one thousand sixty.

So before this data set was digitized
right you would only have had access

to the official census data.

So you could only look at change
over time ten year intervals right.

So would look like this one nine hundred
sixty and then one nine hundred seventy

really huge expansion in where the black
population lives in metropolitan Atlanta.

So again one nine hundred
sixty one hundred seventy

in those of you who have read
Kevin Cruz's white flight.

You'll you'll be you are.

From there with this
concept of racial changed

during the one nine hundred sixty S.
So what now with this data set.

We can get like a more granular look
at change over time in Atlanta and

we can see we have to
isolate the years that

this significant racial
change happened yes yes.

Sorry about that.

So right here this track
I believe is downtown.

So the base of the center of
the map is downtown Atlanta and

this is a Grant Park here.

Yeah right here right in
the park right there right there.

OK so I was going to go through this.

I have I have maps for the ten year
period so here is one hundred sixty

nine hundred sixty one
sixty two sixty three.

Then you'll see one hundred sixty four
sixty five that change right there

in one thousand nine hundred sixty four
sixty five sixty six and sixty seven.

So really it was like a three year period
we had this incredible racial change in

Atlanta in the residential areas and you
can see that sixty eight sixty nine while

there was you know some change it wasn't
as abrupt as those three year period and

tempers writes about this and we also have
other maps in the question that to pick

this similar concept and
then you get to one hundred seventy.

So I I'm really excited to see
people use this I mean just think

about the different things you can do you
can look at you know housing elements for

a long period of time in Atlanta.

But it is important that this
is not official census data.

This is collected by the Atlanta
Regional Commission and the sample data.

Yeah I think so.

Each one of these publications has
like a methodology that they tell you

how they get they got that.

They're doing they're using building
permit data and going to sites and

things like that where they did every ten
years they would use the census data as

the base.

But in between those years.

I mean how could you compare because
there's no there's no compare there's

nothing to compare it to.

OK so that's something I'm excited
about and if you know this is all

open data right so you can go to the site
go to click on population housing and

then you can download to here to
tell you you know anymore I guess.

And so I just think closing I want to

give credit to everyone who
is working on this project.

It's a big project and
there are a lot of people working on it.

In fact the funding that we got went
almost entirely toward staff for

this project.

There's a lot of people people power
behind this you have a lot of graduate

students and other people in
the library working on this and

we have excellent people
working on this project.

So I had to say that this project
could never be as great as it

is without all these people working on it
so I always want to give credit to people.

So yeah that was basically all I want
to go over with this collection and

I'll be happy to take any questions.

So you talk about the maps the so
can you rephrase your question what I

mean by right

no there.

Yeah.

So it's actually there are geo
referenced maps that means they

just have a special property
is associated with not

it's not necessarily geocoding
you know some people you.

Those two words interchangeably.

But there's not point data.

It's just it's just a raster map that
can be viewed in its true location and

a computer application to make
sounds OK sorry disappointing.

Yes.

Yeah right.

So these are going to do oral histories we
partner one of the guys on this is history

professor and she has a team of graduate
students going out in some neighborhoods.

You know making relationships with
people in the neighborhoods and

we're going to collect world history so
because a lot of this content

deals with a lot of the maps that
we have deal with urban renewal and

that's kind of an area that's not
very well researched in Atlanta and

you know the people because it took place
in the sixty's and fifty's and sixty's.

I guess I'll have to really
just primarily sixty's.

Those people are going to getting
older and I think I just thought

that it would be a good project to look at
a couple neighborhoods that experienced

urban renewal and you know then if I
some residents that can talk about their

experience in those neighborhoods
during the urban renewal period.

So the neighborhoods that we're going to
collect oral histories from are which

obviously doesn't exist anymore but

they still people residents still meet
every year from buttermilk bottoms and

talk about you know how it was
like living there another one

city that was a neighborhood that didn't
really under didn't undergo urban renewal

but there were pleads from great you know
mind city residents during the sixty's.

So you get an urban
renewal project there and

there are maps that were made that
showed earlier and all but nothing.

The best my knowledge is
really ever executed.

And then there's another neighborhood
Thomasville which is not really well

known but that was.

Of the most successful or
renewal progress projects in the country

actually and in fact we believe that it or

I believe it was the first
residential urban renewal project in

that it was all it was not commercial
development that went in there with

a roof on it was all single family homes
in that neighborhood still exist today.

So we felt that was
an important one to look at and

then we're also going to reach out to
some people and some are Summerhill.

Because that is you know such
a interesting topic right now.

So you

know I'm not I know that Seattle.

I think there are city planning
department has some things they digitize

although I find it hard.

I mean it's not they're not a library.

So they digitize one stuff and put it up.

I never know how to get to it though so
I mean I'm not aware of that many

other cities doing this I would love for
other cities to do this but you know

you'd have to have a lot of times this
material is not necessarily in a library.

A lot of these maps.

I'm not sure how we acquire these
maps actually a Georgia state.

But you know I think these maps
may be you know sitting in

you know some city basement.

No one knows about them anymore
if they even still exists.

So no I don't know of any
other large scale project.

I will say this though that
the stay on that topic.

So we have a lot of publications that are
a renewal or city planning publications

from other cities in our library and
you guys do as well as Georgia Tech.

I would love this require more funding but
to digitize those as well.

So you get so

you could start comparing you know
the city planning documents across the.

It states and in fact we have
city planning publications in

Georgia state from from
Lake England some from Africa.

I don't know and it's fascinating
that we wired his material so

that's a long term project
that I would love to work on.

Yeah yeah yeah.

So we'll work for creating all
the metadata for this all these materials

by having students describe you know
what's going on in the in the maps

but what was the other party or
question is there are there gaps Yeah.

Yes of course there are gaps so

as I said before a lot of this material
is like there are no period in

the fifty's sixty's a very early seventy's
and there's so much content because

as part of the urban renewal program
cities if they want a federal funding

had to produce all of this material
right they had to go all the studies.

So that's there's a lot of information
there in the one nine hundred forty.

We have some stuff not so much though even
going back to the thirty's there are some

before then there's just not a good record
Emory has digitized this excellent map.

You know one hundred twenty
eight outlets of Atlanta.

But before.

Prior to that you know there's all these
gaps I know that maps exist they're just

hard to find.

And then when you get into the late
seventy's and early eighty's.

There's not as much material and
then when you get into the ninety's.

There's not much we have
a comprehensive city planning.

You know reports.

But other than that.

You know.
So here's the problem too that everyone.

Well that people are becoming aware of.

Now that in the ninety's when people were
producing these these maps him moved to

you know systems or digital systems there
wasn't as much of a print record and

so those things were saved on a computer.

They were up.

Did you need to say there is no file there
or just modified so that record is gone

you know they're on a computer that
maybe you know didn't work anymore.

The city playing apartment.

You know the more concerned with things
that are going on right now didn't

necessarily maybe didn't see
the need to to archive the data or

you know libraries in the in
the in the mid ninety's were

not necessarily actively going out and
collecting material like that.

So there's a gap because it will
information that just disappears.

So that there is definitely.

I predict that there will be a major gap

in knowing what the build
environment was like from

the ninety's probably until late today
till people start collecting the data.

Yes yes I think so

yeah yeah because I don't know of any
library is actively collecting this

material they from the city
planning department or

from air sea does a good job of keeping
stuff but I still think that they might

you know update files without
saving the original but

I would love I mean there's only so
much that you can do so.

Yes

yes

yes yes.

Here's

the

as I guess they Yeah yeah I mean
that's that's largely for yes yes.

Yeah there's

no right for

you know your library right.

So you think about I can answer that.

So we could collect what produces
without having to do an exchange.

We just have to set that up and that's
something I'm interested in doing it just

costs us money right because we would then
be committing to preserving that data and

preserving digital data is far
more costly than preserving print

information as far as
the you know exchange.

You know we get something they
get something we as librarians

know we're tied to you may have
heard of this publishers and

and what they you know and
the digital subscription model.

It is I would just say

pretty much unfair and
they have you know they have most of

the publishers have most of the power and
so they would almost certainly

not not be interested in that they don't
care what we get as a library in exchange.

So that would be like you
know we would be offering

something that a publisher
produces to give the air or

sea which the publisher wouldn't wouldn't
wouldn't benefit from in any way.

Yeah I

mean really.

So I'm not aware of that so

what

we can talk about is afterwards that I'd
be interested in seeing how they do that.

Yeah you know California has yes.

Yeah.

So I will say you know California.

You know their university system
is is organized in that regard.

Right.
They can get together and

they can challenge.

It's such a heavyweight university
system they can get together and

they can challenge publishers and get
better deals I turn Mike off I don't know.

Then we can hear it but

I'd like to explore that we can
we can talk about it afterwards.

Yes so

demeaning example of what you
would consider environmental

data and

we might guess this is just a complete
guess is that you know that was

probably not until the seventy's when when
people who are largely this is a guess.

Ram put myself out there just
guessing that that's when that data

was you know really beginning to
people were collecting the data

is that a fair assumption with
Air Quality Act and things like that.

So yeah.

So there are what we do

have some maps that show like flood
area and rivers and things like that but

nothing that's that document's I
haven't seen anything that documents.

You know the quality of water or

anything that today we would consider
environmental which is unfortunate but

I mean you know that was not a major
concern of most people at the time.

Yes you

know

basically what.

Ever.
You know we had the city of Atlanta and

already the Regional Commission produced

the maps are not in this
collection you know.

University of Georgia library has
digitized all the ones that they own

which is available freely now come
to nine hundred twenty two and

then again we're getting in.

You know copyright and publishers that
is Sanborn is still a company right and

anything in the United States that was
published after nine hundred twenty two.

You can't put on line without
permission from the copyright owner and

Sanborn owns all those
copyrights those maps so

while we do have maps from said Sam or
maps post one thousand nine hundred two.

We are legally not allowed
to do anything with them.

So this doesn't Fortunately that's

OK

so I get that question all the time.

Because it's words that you know we have
the heritage preservation program which is

basically historic preservation and
that's something that the students do all

the time and they always come
to me like I want to map of

this area this block every ten year
eight hundred eighty to now and

I well you know just doesn't exist.

Maybe it exists but I don't know
where they are so you just you're.

There was no like magic.

You know it wasn't like this entity
in Atlanta said OK we're ten years.

We're going to do a survey
of the built environment so

you're basically left with what was ever
produced at any given point in time so

we don't have

all the know I mean you know I don't
often the city updated the zoning maps.

And we definitely do not have all those
I mean we don't have a complete complex

collection of everything that the city
of Atlanta produced I was there.

Sure there's a lot more material at
the Atlanta History Center since they were

they collected a lot of that
city planning material but

I don't really know
exactly what's there and

I don't I really don't think that they
did this every ten years and if they did.

I'm really surprised that the information
was preserved which is unfortunate but

you know that's you know any
kind of digital humanities

historical project you're kind
of left with what makes history.

You know more of an art than a science.

You've had to piece it together and

do the best you can which is what you
have here so that answer a question.

Yes

So

you mean like internal records again
we know we don't have that and

my guess is that the land History Center
may have that the I'm not sure they do

have the official records of the city
planning department and then you know.

The later Regional Commission.

It was very good about keeping
all their material which is

also a house of the land History Center.

And they actually offered that we.

They said you can digitize
the whole collection.

Yeah I have a great.

It's an enormous collection.

So this will be yours.

You can take that on if you like.

So

I put out this paper in a Library Journal.

I mean it was just basically an overview
of the collection and you know how we.

Yeah.
So actually I'm working on actually

working on a book right now based
off a lot of this material for

the Georgia state were critical for
tire of the book.

We're looking at maps that shaped Atlanta
taken from a current Well cartography

perspective and you know we're
going to publish you know articles

as we write this book you know in
the Journal of urban history and

you know Journal urban
geography things like that so.

But there is an appetite for
this because the there's been

a really positive reception to this.

I guess people specifically in Atlanta
are very interested in this and

you know I've gone all around
the country and even in Germany and

presented on this and you know people
seem to be very very interested in

this interested in the built
environment and you know.

So of course I'm going to converse
as that's what people do so.

Yeah yeah.

Yeah so

it's kind of hit or miss again some of
the city planning maps they definitely

depicts some of the building footprints.

Some do not so it's just hit or miss.

So one thing is really interesting is that

the maps while they don't
show the building footprints.

I should just brought a scan of one
one of them to show you guys but

they show households and land lots and so

you can see where a building was you could
take the Emery's one hundred twenty eight

out you know it was twenty eight and.

From the mid thirties
middle eight thirties and

there wasn't that much activity going
on as it was the Depression right there

was so was some development but
not really that much.

So you could look at the building
footprints on those maps and

you can look at the addresses from
this W.P.A. map so you can see like

I think if you look at I looked at the Fox
Theater because still exists today but

you can see in the W.P.A. map that
building had like I don't know if you

remember the number but like six or seven
addresses right there in that building.

So you can kind of get
a sense of the density.

So you can see a building and

then how many individual addresses that
had I don't that's what you're asking but

OK you

know we're like

Yes definitely.

This is not going to and with with
the ending of the grant you know and

here and a half.

I would like to see this go on and
partner with other other libraries.

Yeah and it definitely or attack because
I know you guys have material here.

I know I know you guys you guys are great.

You guys think.
And like librarians here yeah.

So yeah I definitely want to collect
that material from the beltline and

we have a contact there.

It's just.

This is like taking up a significant
portion of my life and

then we have another project
going on at Georgia State.

We're building this new visual data
visualization center that I'm involved

with so there's only so much that people
can do but I would like to set up systems.

We're collecting the city of Atlanta
data and we're collecting about.

Data even even if it's just a P.D.F. map
that was a proposal I definitely want to

collect and I know that there are people
working on the beltline Who are you

know saving that information and we just
need to reach out to them and and and

get it and commit to preserving it right.

Yeah yeah yeah.

So that's scary in that that's
going to fill up really quickly.

You know even though the data
storage just cheaper and cheaper.

There's a maintenance cost for
the so if we implemented some and

I think that you know there
are a lot of you know

unknown elements to that word
you know who knows you know if

you have the ability just to take a photo
of something that you think is important.

And then we goes in our system.

You know maybe just think whatever
those someone dropped a quarter

on the beltline and someone thought it
was interesting and then we have it and

it's a digital object
that we have to preserve.

So there would have to be some betting so
that the crowdsource concept is very good.

I think he put it through
there were definitely some

vetting of the information.

I'm not definitely not that
I hope I didn't get that.

OK.

Yes.

Yes that.

And there is there
are differences I think.

And this is something that libraries
are really really trying to

come to grips come to terms with you know
if you libraries have always been about.

Information and
just give you a little spiel.

You know it's not about the format right.

Everyone thinks of a library as books.

It is the books for most you know for
many many hundreds.

You know for many centuries have been the
way that we've collected information but

now it's all digital right.

And so things the digital transformation
happened so quickly that libraries

are trying to come to terms with how to
collect in preserve that information.

So we like someone is producing
information and it's a map and

you know there are tons of shape
files right it's more difficult to

preserve if you guys are talking about
years of files in our G.I.'s it's more

difficult to preserve a shape file
because that's not just one file right.

It has all these files with it right.

So it's more difficult to preserve that
for long term than it is something more

stable like out like a final a finished
map right that you produce in map and

you save it as a tiff image which
is an on compressed file format so

it is it's more stable
in that sense right.

But we know that we have to
preserve the same files so

I don't have an answer your question
other than to say that it is we

people are working on solutions to
the challenges that you know things.

Someone will come up with a solution and

then there are new file formats right so
how do you preserve that.

Exactly.

It's not.
Yeah so

librarians are well aware of that issue.

I mean if we're talking about it you know.

I just we need to reform library school
lake we need to you know people need to

be learning how to do this instead of
learning how to point someone toward

you know a reference book that's you know
where we don't need to do that anymore.

We need to focus on preserving and
working with digital information.

So that's just my soapbox Yeah
lots of people geospatial

community there are just
visually variants and geospatial.

Preservation is looking at things
like that but there's just a whole

bunch of different library groups
looking at digital preservation and

whether that's the challenge.

So there are people focusing
on different formats right.

Of course library Congress is
very interested in this but

you know I'm not a digital
preservationist right so

I reading up on it you know I'm
working on a digital project so

I need to be aware of this but
that that's not that's not my area.

You know I don't I don't have
a background in digital preservation but

there are people who do so.

There are in cities out there that
exist just off the top of my head I

can't tell you right now.

Tentatively it

we just started this project and
this is going to VS every year

thing It's tentatively titled
maps that shaped Atlanta.

Although I'm sure that's going to change
with it's not that interesting right.

So we're actually going to talk about what
that no no I mean we just the three of

us got together and just came up with this
idea actually November and if you guys

know the Atlanta study symposium if you
heard that it's going on in Georgia State.

We're going to give a talk on this
I'm going to talk about blight and

maps of blight and
what that meant and you know.

The unbiased nature of producing a map.

So if you're interested and
it is April I should note.

It's like the beginning of April.

I don't know.

We'll have to look it up.

Just Google as studies impose his will.

It will come up.

Yeah yeah yeah.

And by the way.
Man I'm I'm just drawn blanks right now.

Clarence stone is going to
be the keynote there and

Lance is also going to be giving a talk
there but you guys know Larry court.

Clarence no excuse me at the end of that.

You did several books and you know
a very important one regime change and

I'm getting the title wrong
I guess is getting late but.

Exactly.

Thank you.
Yeah he's going to be there.

You know it's twenty fifth
anniversary of that book.

So it's worth it just to come
to listen to it with talk.

So it's going to be exciting.

Yeah

thanks know it with a prat.