Right there and over.

And we've had something of a miracle and
the intruder and

better than a play.

We're glad to hack Jennifer.

Here with us now and
I just want her to say a few words to

you for really move on to the next panel

systems from urban agriculture
to the roots of life for.

Fine

weather whether

they and their

research very

hard but what they say

is that me and.

And you.

So we're talking about two areas of
work that I'm currently engaged and.

They relate to food systems and
digital media more generally.

We talk about system happens and

hopefully we'll get to the drones for
foraging which are just as exciting.

A little bit of background.

I mean a professor in the school
of literature media and

communication the Digital Media program.

And I run a design research studio
called the public design workshop

where we work together with graduate
students and undergraduates from across

the Institute actually looking at
the ways that we design practice to

shape public discourse and a lot of our
work over the past several years has

been around local food systems so for
example right over here today from just

finishing a class in which we're looking
at contemporary mapping technologies and

the ways in which digital media can
represent local systems and what new kinds

of representational forms might give us
in terms of insights about those systems.

We're going to talk to you about today
is funded by the social which is that

you tell Science and
Technology Center for social computing.

So I thought this was worth mentioning.

Because it's interesting to think about
the ways in which we in my external

funding for this kind of work.

What's notable about the I have to see
social as a unit is it's the first

funded research center that
has no computer science or

engineering faculty involved in it.

It's all social science and
humanities faculty.

So it's sort of points to new directions
that are happening in industrial

farming as well.

So with regards to food order good

sport generally there's really two things
that motivate my research right now and

one is a question about how do people
take technologies that were designed.

For industrial systems and
appropriate for adapt them for

what we might call post
industrial systems.

So as we talk about farming and
agriculture is a great example of this

where we have a suite of technologies that
have been designed for large scale farming

and the question is how are those
technologies transfer or not transferred

into the practices of small and
then the second question is as designers

how do we engage with Issue oriented
publics and practices of collaborative.

So how do we gauge with communities for
whom the development of technology is

something that's hard to political
practices and to value statements.

How do we work together with them
to think about new technologies and

to make those new technologies
come into being and

what does that mean in terms of design
practice and practices and innovation.

So I can phone up first root systems.

I'm assuming that the systems are
something that we're fairly familiar with.

But let's not assume so
when I use the word food system.

Not one of the traffic.

System.
I'm using it to capture everything that

happens between the seed
to consumption to the to

what happens to the land so
this includes practices of Agriculture and

includes practices of logistics and
distribution and

includes processing operation
consumption and waste management.

What's interesting is that
this process this food.

Is constantly changing and as other people
talk about one of the ways in which it's

changing is that you have small scale
producers that are entering into systems

that were clearly occupied
by large scale producers and

one of the characteristics of large scale
systems is that they're often heavily

controlled through digital media's So

this poses a question how does
the small scale farmer before.

Sort of.

Smaller scale food producers enter
into the system with these tools.

And how do we go about
answering those questions.

Hackathon.

What have you.

So how many people are familiar
with this term back upon.

So our short twelve to
twenty four hour events

that bring people together to
collaboratively try to address an issue.

Through the development of software or
hardware.

We have them attack all the time they
occur out in the public where people come

together and say OK we're going to try
to solve a problem through technology.

One of the things that we've been studying
is we've been doing graphic studies issue

oriented happen particularly happy upon
to take place around good systems.

So.

The question that we're asking is
what occurs in these activities how

do we understand this activity is design
and engineering events and one of the ways

important to me that they intersect or
don't intersect with issues systems.

So yeah they have happened for
me over the past year.

There's been a series of hack
a thons called the half meet series.

There's been two so far the first one was
held in New York we participated in this

and you see a screenshot this is the sort
of typical sort of hackathon of people

come together they brainstorm ideas they
try to produce actual technologies and

me was a hacker that was sponsored
by the producers and the question.

They were looking at were how
can we bring information and

communication technologies
to try to prove.

You've got us for
the space of twenty four hours.

People came together and
they propose solutions so this.

The winning solution here slot for
its slot per slot which

is a slaughterhouse scheduling system
that's been designed for small producers.

So what's notable about this is
the ways in which these hack a thons.

Cultural phenomena are bringing people
together around issues of the system that

have them develop technologies
in the ad hoc way but

in a way that's actually supposed to
plug into larger scale systems and

they're producing software
that actually work.

So here.
Here's a screen shot.

This with some of
the test information but.

The idea is that I have a pretty.

Rise of let's say rates on the go
to my local hero which are.

Processor out the car.

Now in the morning and we might look at
this and say that's really all right.

Bunch of people getting together in
New York and they're thinking about

meeting the producing some software
is that really a real thing.

One of the interesting characteristics of
how real they become So the first happen

me took place on the shoestring budget in
the New York about a year and a half ago.

The second one was posted at the Stanford
arguably one of the center for

innovation and design States completely
sponsored by Silicon Valley funding.

In which over three hundred people came
together and spent forty eight hours

actually developing software and
hardware services for the small scale

food industries supply for meat production
which are now gone into the process.

So this is a curious way
to try to understand how

this technology is produced in new
ways in these kinds of environments.

So we've been doing
ethnographic studies as we've

also been going through the process
of hosting our own happen.

So we've got the ponds here and.

This is an image of one from last year
on which we brought together local.

Producers and technologists to
try to develop new technologies.

So what comes of this.

My wondering if

there's actually some
interesting outcome so.

One if that happens to become so popular.

They're now sponsored
at the national level.

So with me in the local hackathon
we got asked to participate

in the National Day of civic marking which
is sponsored by the White House which also

had a food agenda and
we work together with food and

farmers to help them develop a mapping
system which is now going on to

be developed as part of
their presence initiative.

So we see the sorts of direct material
outcomes that come from events.

We also see a lot of knowledge it's
getting produce from these events.

So one of the things that we're beginning
to say is what are these what are these

things good more than building codes
what we're realizing is that they're

really good for
building community they're really good for

building networks of people who might
be committed to an issue over time but

what's interesting about this is that this
is becoming a way of tech transfer and

this is just happened in the past
two weeks where our sponsor Intel is

now interested in setting up tech
transfer relationships with us.

But around the technology the knowledge

is that we've developed from analyzing
these events about how to organize it so

the tech transfer that Intel's
interested in is how does one.

People pick up on.

One point knowledge of people and

how people come together
around them through the.

Technology.

AUSTER innovation and those processes.

Processes in a company like.

So quickly dive into.

The one hand we've been doing this
epigraphic work looking at the at these

practices looking at
the ways in which certain.

Emerging Technologies don't practices
like we've been doing this is a research

design approach so we're actually working
with communities to design technology so

drones as many of you may know
are actually widely used in contemporary

agriculture but again primarily for large
scale happening with smaller scale farms

we became interested with about.

So this is the practice of gathering from

personalized cultural sites so
gathering apples from my heart.

What's interesting about forging
as a practice covers the rain

contemporary practices
like how to write they

let us know when a village farmers market
boards like this for seven dollars.

Or their supporters who do it for
food security for example concrete jungle.

They've been then they give
them shelter to supplement.

The food security systems that are so

high technology or complex products or

there's a huge building up around them and
there are charts social imagine.

We don't usually think of drones
as being something that we might

use to support Social Security
we usually think of have

them as having very different purposes so
it's a.

Interesting place to look at
why would they need to spot.

They need to find out where the fruit is
and they need to find out it's right or

the biggest problem is time management so
their idea was can we deploy drones to go

around the city of pirates or
this is just.

This is.

This is what looking for.

It's like so they're looking for pairs.

Yet every so

their idea is to begin
to off the shelf drones.

You can buy a drone actually or

it's a noble hundred ninety
nine dollars that it's one of.

And use it to help supplement
their activities of her daughter.

So we've been working with them to help.

The drone as well as looking at D.I.Y.
software tools.

That allow you to actually locate.

On trees.

I'm just happy.

And then also to process images.

This is the technology process and

educational it's using that as a basis for
a show on the houses of possible sites.

So what we found was that there's actually
a lot of opportunities around here there's

opportunities if you want to think about
technological innovation in terms of

saying how would you design an entry level
to a small scale agriculture community.

How would that be different.

And what we're interested in doing moving
forward is looking at just as services.

Exists to support drone activities for
large farms what with service models for

smaller scale.

It uses and continuing to develop
the stuff of the local authorities so

that's a summary of the things that
we're doing now and only person.

Things.

We.

So I have to write that the time.

Otherwise I feel like it's short and

I feel like I can think of a lot of
time until I get there a few slides.

First.

The things that speakers before me gave
thanks to Jennifer thanks to Dan and

Mary for all of their.

Organizing.

I'm from H.T.S..

History.

Things and.

As Barbara said.

My research up to this
point has focused primarily

on understanding agricultural policy and
the United States.

Understanding the politics behind
the changes during the twentieth century.

In the US.

The.

Contraction basically a new deal
agricultural policy over a long.

Long duration from one nine hundred
twenty until the early two thousand but

my current work which I'm
going to focus on today.

Kind of builds off of that and
focusing on.

Might say global food security but

the focus is really about
global food crises and so

important what I've begun to do is switch
from understanding the different forces

that are shape that are shaping or have
shaped the way that policies are created.

To understanding to some extent
the effects of those of those policies.

So part of the reason why I'm going
out of order her part of the reason.

Part of the answer to the question of
why I'm interested in this particular

particular research is this connection
that it has to my previous research.

But the second.

Reason that I'm interested in
this particular focus of global.

Security.

Is that it really brings together
the interests and understanding national

policies International Development
the world economy social movements and

inequalities just like small small things
that are easy to grasp and understand.

So I'm going to do what many other
speakers of done which is to basically

address some of the questions
that were posed to us and.

Coral upstaged me.

By having a fantastic graphic system.

So I'm going to talk about
three aspects this research.

That have to do with basically.

Three aspects I have to do
basically with access to food and

the first issue is a food systems.

So exactly as Karl said when we talk about
food systems or we're talking about is

everything from sea to plate and
even even after plate disposal.

But what I'm especially interested
in are two things put below.

National season international regimes and
I put it below and I had exactly sure

it was the right place to put it it
didn't show up on Coral Springs and

I'm not sure if other people put it on
their graphics in part because one I'm

interested in isn't exactly the food
system itself but the different factors

that shape the food system so
national policies in particular policies

agricultural policies for example in the
United States things like farm subsidies

right supports which are essentially
artificially high prices for farmers.

Production controls which I don't
exactly exist anymore but for

most of the twentieth century
regulated what farmers use.

So I'm interested in how national policies
shape systems and in particular shape.

Our food system and people's access to
food but also you know national regime

this I'm interested in a world economic
component that's not just about now.

National policies in the United States but
also interested.

I'm also interested in things.

Different rules and regulations that
help to govern the production and

trading consumption of
food throughout the world.

So things like international commodity.

In the middle of the twentieth century
there was an international agreement

that helped to coordinate production and
consumption and trade and

essentially established
global help to stablish or

stabilize global prices and
production levels for

different producers in particular
the United States and Australia.

So food systems is the first
problem in terms of

access the second term bring
up those food security and.

Like Carl one of my concerns in listening
to these three things you see that

are in just moment was that it was
too simple and so I took to heart.

A recommendation on the part of Janet and
Jennifer that we take out in.

Jargon disciplinary jargon and so

my slide show actually only has three
slide because once I took all the jargon.

LUKE No I'm kidding I'm kidding
of course because there's

no way that any academic of my generation
could have a slight so they'd only had

three slides even if they only had
three minutes to have a week's episode.

So I've got more but I did take a lot
out but nonetheless food security

to many of us may seem evident on face
under the face what it is go ahead and

give it anyway and
security is really about access to so

efficient safe and
nutritious food allows people

to households individuals
to meet the needs help.

Well what I'm really
interested in this food price.

There's all kinds.

Of ways in which there can be crises and

then when I say that I study food
crises some of my colleagues.

Sociology colleagues think that what
I'm studying is like you cooperate from

Jack in the box borders or
something like that.

I'm not really interested in what
I'm interested in terms of crises

are global crises that
are linked to sudden and

sharp spikes in prices
that make it difficult for

people people populations around
the world to have access to

adequate food in part because a large
portion of their household income

was devoted to food purchased before
the spike in been after the spike.

They simply.

So in terms of what's at stake in
understanding security and crises.

What I highlight in my research
are three different things.

Economic stability in the context
of a crisis of course there isn't

economic spill it's economic
instability and world hunger and

political So
in terms of economic stability.

My focus tends to be on prices and
so with this rapture.

You know there's always
this point to me whenever

I have something that looks really good
on my computer in terms of plants and

colors and then it doesn't quite.

But this graph shows prices for
for wheat in bloom prices for

Rice in black I believe it's two thousand
to two thousand to two thousand and

eleven and two thousand and eight which
is the most recent food crisis and

the crisis that I'm focusing on at
the moment and in my research and.

A good example of how economic
instability and world hunger and

political instability become evident or
emerged during crises.

So what happened in late two thousand and
seven.

Two thousand and eight was a sharp
sharp increase in the rise of right.

Right.
Prices.

So I think they increased between three
hundred three hundred fifty percent.

And as a result of that sharp increase.

There was a sharp increase in world
hunger and with this crap shows and

it's it's an OK graph is basically what I
would say is from the United Nations Food

and Agriculture Organization and it shows
the trends in world hunger undernourished

people from the late one nine hundred
sixty S. through two thousand and ten.

So after the crisis that occurred
two thousand and eight and

you can see that for a number of years up
until one thousand nine hundred ninety

five there was up until one thousand nine
hundred seven there was a decline in

the number of people who are have
a girl rising as undernourished as

Hungary at some point
during a sharp increase

that occurred in two thousand and
eight two thousand and

nine such said in two thousand and nine
that was the first time that estimate.

Suggested that over a billion
people in the world were

suffering from undernourishment.

By just revised their estimates and

put it just at under nine hundred million

but I use this graph because
they have a newer graph.

But a graph is in this matter because
this isn't a sharp increase and

the years like these years aren't group
very well anyway when I get a for

like annual And these these years
you might imagine that measuring

the world hunger is something
of a difficult task and

only half measure is even estimates or.

See this kind of society period.

But it's even worse in terms of
the new measures the new measures

the way that they're broken down in terms
of years especially around the most recent

crisis isn't very insightful yet
but they did.

Ask prices increase sharply and
world hunger increases as people

lose access to adequate food then
political stability is also threatened and

this is a graph that I still
from of economists and

what the graph with
the insert here shows this is

surely the crude price index.

That's created by the Food and
Agriculture Organization and

it basically is a composite index
that shows the increase in prices.

The average food.

The average increase in food prices
control important placement and those from

the late night and he or.

The line just we don't write

but all food prices tend to increase in
two thousand and seven two thousand and

eight and what the economists did was
the red lines showed the instances and

to some extent the intensity of
different protests not only around food.

But in many instances food riots and
protests but also protests in general

that occurred in a variety of countries
and there are more than thirty country

and protest and the picture that I had
of at the beginning was a picture from.

Haiti and the food rights were so
intense and Haiti that it resulted in

a change in government the president
was the president had to call for

a new parliament to be elected and
then prices fell.

This is just extra prices fell and
two thousand and nine but

then they rose again in late two
thousand and ten and they started

to help to contribute to the emergence
of the Arab Spring in two thousand and

eleven in part because those
protests started in Algeria and

with protests that had links
to food prices increasing

the way that I go about trying
to tackle this kind of subject.

If I would say it's in
the historical comparative tradition

within sociology and what that really
means is that I'm interested in history.

So I take the two thousand and
eight two crisis as a case study but

I'm not interested in
the immediate causes so

much as the longer term historical
context in which a pace happens to occur.

So I said that my previous research.

So Barbara mentioned my book
The Politics of food supply and

that looked at US agricultural policy
from the one nine hundred twenty

until the early two thousand and
the corner the cornerstone of that

of that book about analysis was actually
just trying to understand the one thousand

nine hundred six farmer but
I did so in an eighty year period.

So I primarily drug case studies and

other in other projects.

So here it was very excited about.

Q CA was the sex you see in particular and

other other research I've done I've used
to see as well and I will Doris her for.

But for this particular project the.

Data sources that I use are government
documents and their archival material but

especially statistics that come from
the Food and Agricultural Organization.

The World Bank and the U.S.D.A. so

most instances most explanations
of the two thousand a crisis.

Focus on really kind of factors.

Increased use of corn for
biofuels droughts that hit us

floods that hit the East Asia all
better prices things of that nature but

what I'm really interested in
are as I said the longer term.

And these are two graphs that show prices
for three different commodities corn and

corn and
wheat on the left hand side and coffee.

And robust on the right hand side.

And what I want to highlight in these
brands is just how stable prices off.

Prices are on the one hand for
corn and we are finding but

the year to year variation
is relatively small.

And part of my argument is that if you
want to understand the two thousand

a crisis you have to understand the longer
term historical context including

changes that occurred in national
policies and the United States but

also in terms of international
commodity agreements and others.

So I'm running short on time so

I mean to say it's stable from
one thousand nine hundred

seven until one nine hundred seventy two
and then becomes completely unstable.

So this is one of the instances.

If Barbara was to ask how
do I have the purse and

I was asked how do they have I have fun
by by creating binding lots of data and

then creating graphs and
see if it matches very.

And it's amazing to me even though I
have faith in the theories I have or

other people have put out
that I subscribe to it.

It always stuns me when
it actually works out.

So the prices

were incredibly stable in part because
there were national policies and

an international regime
that had policies and

regulations aimed at
stabilizing prices right.

But that regime so

price supports production controls that
were at the level of the world economy and

national was thirty seconds
really do it in thirty seconds.

But then it broke down and there was an
incredible amount of stability and frankly

just one example of that one extreme
example of that kind of instability.

Right.
So this is actually right.

So for me what I would say is to try and
understand things like food security

crises that understanding
the political economic context is key.

And that brings me to why policy shift and
these other things.

I won't go into because I
ran out of time tonight.

So anyway.

Thank you to him.

Her prize among our countries.

OK Final.

Thanks to the organizers who
are organizing this event and

really fantastic and for
inviting me to speak and

this is my topic that is licenses and
access to credit and the crops.

I'm not going to talk
about food systems but

I am going to talk
a little bit about food.

As both Bill and
Karl mentioned systems are.

Everything in the chain from all the way
to plate and then through even after that

I'm going to talk about what happens
before you get to a certain class and

how that affects people's ability to
access those I'm talking about a very

tiny place in here before I
taught start talking about.

Let me provide a little bit
of a political brain work for

what I'm doing I am in the plot for
a science and

a lot of my work is in this area of
social So what does this mean you think.

Parker's.

Talking.

What does this mean for
the Study of knowledge.

Science of Spencer the classic
core part for a long time.

Most philosophers of science.

However have thought about
scientific knowledge.

In terms of reasoning processes that go
on at the level of the individual and

they of course recognize acknowledge
that scientific knowledge is

not produced by individuals working in
isolation but rather is produced in.

Community by groups but
they either argue or

more typically just that we
can think we can understand.

Scientific knowledge at
the level of the community.

Soley in terms of some
kind of aggregation.

Individual individual and
I reject that last claim I think there's

something important and intrinsically
social about scientific knowledge and

social in the world of it so a lot of
my research examines the implications

of the social organization and what I
mean by social organization researching

the institutions in which research
takes place how research is funded what

the incentive structures are for producing
and disseminating scientific knowledge

there are certain ways of organizing
scientific research that are conducive

to the development and dissemination of
knowledge and there are certain ways that

are not a lot of my research is trying to
tell the difference between these two.

Why is this topic important.

Well my wrists kind of think
of my research as being

as occupying one part of the larger
debate over the commercialization

of science over the last thirty or
forty years or

so the organization of scientific
research has changed a lot.

And a lot of people have criticized
the exchanges arguing that there is

a much greater emphasis on commercializing
profiting from scientific research and

that this is just leading to bad science
bad science in one sense just in terms of.

For example being biased in favor
of those who are funding this.

Given this debate and
well given that the debate.

Is a lot of questions I think
take that significance.

OK big picture problem a second ago I was
talking about you to fix your problem.

You know just talking about your problem.

One of the ways in which
the organization of research has

changed over the past thirty or forty
years concerns the emphasis on patenting.

Patenting activity has skyrocketed in
many areas of scientific research.

Especially in the biomedical sciences and
biotechnology.

And the philosophical justification
that is oftentimes given for this is

consequential It's the nature of the
argument is that patents and thank you.

Fact of life research and development
that otherwise wouldn't get done or at

least not get done this quickly and that
this in turn leads to social benefits.

And this is the justification
that we find trying and

United States Constitution Article one.

Operator granted in order to promote
the progress of science and arts but

there are a lot of people
who argue that in fact.

Patching and
licensing activity is not incentivizing.

Research but rather is inhibiting it and
I'm probably the classic article

on this at least in the area
of biomedical science and

biotechnology is the tragedy of the
anti-crime paper by Rebecca EISENBERG And

Michael Heller where they argue that
a proliferation of patenting and

licensing and upstream research
over things like gene patents.

This is actually inhibiting
downstream research and

product development work
a little bit on that.

Why did sort of a qualified sense of it.

Like her project.

Is on whether current
happening in the life.

Current the current system of
patenting life thing allows for

sufficient access to transgenic crops.

And I'm using Access Well talking about
different kinds of access here and

first of all I'm talking
about socialism ology.

I'll talk about access for
the purposes of research.

I've written on this and
still working on it.

But in a paper that I've just submitted
for publication out of argue.

In agricultural biotechnology patents in
the US are in fact being used to prohibit.

Some kind of research on transgenic crops
so this is a stronger Heller Isenberg.

That patents are inhibiting downstream
research and development in this area

patents are being used to
prohibit some kind of research on

transgenic crops so as you know in order
to obtain access to transgenic crops.

You need to sign a license agreement and

one of the things that these
licensing license agreements

explicitly do is to prohibit you
from doing research on these things.

This is really problematic and this is not

just something that is included in
these life agreement but it is actually

affecting scientific practice there
are scientists who are trying to obtain.

For the purpose of research and
are not able to do so.

I mean maybe I should say given that
there is all this controversy around

transgenic crops I don't
think there's anything.

Intrinsically wrong with the technology.

I'm not opposed to the technology in
principle but I certainly think that

if we are to use the technology we
should subject to a lot of research

had licenses are being used in such a way
as to prohibit some of that research.

In the paper that I discussed
a number of ways this problem.

I look at voluntary agreement and

academic research that allow them to
research and I also the possibility of

research exemption currently in the United
States there is no general statutory.

Research that would allow people
to do research on the bench and.

Instituting something like
this would be one way to allow

greater access and I think that both
of these things are good ideas.

But I don't think they solve
the problems efficiently.

So really ensuring that that researchers
have access to the seeds is going to

involve I think really substantial changes
to the way in which research is organizing

things like how research is funded.

OK So this is stuff that
I'm currently working on.

But I'm in the process of expanding
the project to include access for

different purposes and next semester I
will be away from fellowship with the.

For Advanced Study in part
to work on this expansion.

So the question is does the current
practice think allow for

sufficient access to transgenic
crops access in this case for

the purposes of use particularly in
the context of climate adaptation.

There are a lot of people who have
argued and are arguing that we

should prioritize funding transgenic crops
in order to help developing countries.

Adapt to climate change so prioritise
funding of genetically modified crops that

for example can be engineered
to be resistant to drought or

crops that can and survive and thrive and

conditions of flooding and
things like that the Gates Foundation has.

One example of an agency that is
prioritizing funding for this purpose.

And one of the things I want to
ask in my upcoming research is

whether this is a wise strategy of
adapting to climate change first.

And secondly if the current system of
planning and licensing would allow us.

I don't know the answer to the first
question there are a lot of people who

argue that this is just a bad
strategy to begin with developing.

Transgenic crops is expensive and
it would be

wiser to encourage developing countries
to use more local organic methods

agriculture in order to do this and
I'm certainly open to that but

one thing I am committed to is that
if we are to pursue the strategy

of prioritizing transgenic crops to help
developing countries adapt to climate

change we need to figure out
some sort of mechanism so

that patents and
licenses don't inhibit accept this.

Possible applicable patents
to Golden Rice on the about

the rights rights and
genetically engineered to produce.

Vitamin E..

There are many population throughout the
world that suffer from vitamin deficiency

and many of these populations
have rights and so

that we can then if we engineer the right.

This would be a way out of the problem.

As you can see there are about seventy
five different possible applicable patents

rights held by thirty one different
institutions that are pretty.

Messy that vary and if one wants to
make sure that developing countries

can have access to props like this
with some kind of mechanisms.

Mechanisms to find our
way through these things.

Yes you are.

Again right.

Well.

This this issue of ensuring that again if
we pursue the strategy of funding G.M.

crops for the purposes of helping
developing countries about climate change.

The issue of finding a map
to have them license is

significant because this is a problem that
developing countries have to adapt to

as a result that right there are really
strong considerations of justice.

I think.

It would be well.

Significant insult to injury.

If we were to cause a problem that
developing countries had to adapt to and

then prioritize to this problem
that they could not afford to

have her and so there are if we go
the route I think they're really

significant considerations
of just play here.

Opportunities for
interdisciplinary there's a lot of them.

I haven't been working on these
issues having licensing for too long.

It's not a traditional area
that a lot of science and

that focused on in
the last couple of years.

I like any of the patent lawyer on
retainer to make my way through these

clearly when one asks these

questions about how can we structure for
research and

development that technologies that are
implementable in particular local context.

That's a very long train there

that requires a lot of
This American Life arrangement.

And I'll start thinking.

At

trying.

Probably.

This is rather the reverse of

one thing to say the formula
is the extent to which

this food system sets up these either
us or particular planes of existence.

So the United States state

whatever had hoped for

especially turns a corner and
makes you see them just like

there's only small cracks in the farm
bill that really really have space for

a sustainable small scale welcher
there are also talking about

technology and
hence the more they say that there.

There is lots of the hope
that you're still to link

to this around.

Fortunately most of the money if you like.

Yeah I don't want to speak to anybody

but accessing just talking about this
is a question about history as you

do I just think.

Just

say just the number

system and I think this is

right.

So there is a.

Resilience

and this is

this is

this is this is the this

is I mean

this.

I think this was a very good do

things like disease.

They are very

smart.

So

my theory is

this and that

trying to.

It's you know that's why I say
it's an uphill battle trying to

change the really trying to interests and.

Continental these are huge huge
companies that had some of

us have to go back you know
a couple of hundreds of years and

the control that they're going to

have and let these smaller reducers
I mean it's going to have easily.

That's not the way it's
going to happen but

I remember I think it was
an article by my president.

Somebody who is

who and this response is basically where
it's like assume if you show me the movie

The answer the other day and

you know we have to start moving over
the last twenty years or so begin.

Is there cracks in the U.S.D.A.
organic certification has has it's own.

But nonetheless there are some who

are different kinds of assistance and
subsidies

anywhere on the scale to corn and
soybean growers.

But there are there have
been some improvements made.

And so the question becomes what can
be more in terms of moving forward.

The ways that I think this
is how is conventional

coming to recognize more.

So

there is really.

What's the right

in that this case the city

was.

So the Democratic demographics of the

organization participants

gender and race in the student

so collaboration

together with a couple of other

shows.