Thank you for doing so we're safe and
yet he like your spirit.

Today we have the honor of having
younger and stronger learning sign.

Before we start my usual request or
would it

be very nice to introduce
the word be careful.

So I'm going to read their bio or
anything they say about Paul and

the vacuum years of science and
you Dr be fine.

There are so beautiful.

The sun from the inside.

I think you need to look up
the knowledge to be a model recently in

matters of fire can picture.

I think you're going to go from not
following several years of practice and

you found it brings the sign in
nineteen seventy eight nineteen

you want to call up what
he thinks of you in

a book published by a vision of
time was born in Seoul Korea.

He hosted back to work signing up for

the sign from Georgia Tech
my team he said then.

He also completed his Master of Science
at Georgia Tech one thousand nine hundred

ninety four for the Center for
rehabilitation in life and

he said that he and after she's worked
at the center he joined Loring design

in nine hundred eighty eight and
became a partner of Lauryn Hill in nine

hundred ninety five Britain.

If you like by allowing

them to practice nationally and
internationally with Mike Ross with us.

Micro environments where one day they
might be signing on the next day my

long term solution is comprised lined
up for the finest graphic design I.

So you are right

there are many Something telecom

other over to find

that they also obviously.

How much fine print runs of the time and
he

said that this will come from you.

Thanks.
One of

the things I want to talk about the topic
of the discussion is alternate careers and

design and my education industrial
design kind of happened.

Kind of happened by accident to some
degree I had an intent to go to

architecture school and I found this very
strange field called industrial design.

And looking at going to he was my
main goal looking for architecture.

I found the field of industrial
design to be very interesting more so

than architecture.

But when I first got into when
I first got into the program.

I found it to be very stimulating in terms
of the variety of things that you get

into and as a designer rather than a
building architect doing one given thing.

So going through the program going
into visual design as a secondary

on top of that allowed me
to look at two varieties.

The things from a micro
standpoint of industrial design

to the graphics that
might overlay on that.

And then starting the firm
in seventy eight through one

of my professors giving me my
first client was was a big step

one of the first things that
doing was looking at things that

were from a graphics standpoint became
manifestations in an environment and

that was Target stores looking at the
identity of target looking at the graphics

of target but that wasn't satisfying
enough one of the things I wanted to do

is to try to overlay architecture
on top of that in terms of

creating an environment that wasn't
just a graphic promotional environment.

So.

One of the things that we did at
the beginning was product design

with product graphics overlaying it.

Looking at product design with

the housing part of what we're
doing in the in the in the.

Products and how they manifest themselves
as brands but I want to talk about is

how the three disciplines of
industrial design being the micro.

The architecture being the macro and

then the graphic design kind of
intersperse and work together as.

Within the firm as we currently practice.

So one of the things that we did
in the beginning was primarily

graphics primarily product design but
then we merge those three and

I want to show you those
aspects of how we respond to

context in terms of responding to context
or historical standpoint respond in

the context of a cultural standpoint
of the clients and how we design

space is different than designing
industrial design which winds up being.

A product on a table top their front
then an architect would design a space

as a building we look at how those
the spaces within those buildings and

communicates a certain
narrative a certain story.

So how do you get that story across you
look at you look at environment you look

at how environments in Gauge you you look
at how colors can engage you just keep

your eyes open to context and
in areas that you experience

around in this case around the world how
colors can be influencing something.

In terms of context in
terms of brand story.

One of the things I wanted to showcase
as a brand launch that we did for

Sony Ericsson and this was
a merger between Japanese firm and

a a Swedish firm Ericsson
being a technology firm

Sony being a marketing firm.

When they merged together
in two thousand and

two one of the things we dealt with
was a Japanese minimalist culture and

a Swedish minimalist culture and an
American maximalist culture of marketing.

And those three coming together.

How do you manage that context.

How do you manage it through architectural
vision how do you manage it through

graphic vision and
how do you manage it through

industrial design by that I mean
the product that you're going to showcase.

So one of the things that we looked
at doing here was to talk about

the two these two giants coming together
so we designed an exhibit at the.

Trade show that had two large
letterforms the S. and P..

That was actually.

Seen from all sides.

So it turned into an asset in the on the
other side as well from an architectural

standpoint the training that that for
example that I had here at Georgia Tech.

Was to look at how people experience
the space how people experience

a visual conic space
how people experience.

Going through a space so we looked at not
only the standpoint of an exhibit being

a kid of parts is normally trade shows
exhibits are but creating a space that

you would have to make a conscious effort
to go up the stairs as opposed to just

just engaging a carpet and walking across
the carpet you'd walk up the stairs or

you'd walk up to the upper level so it
became a an iconic piece of architecture.

The lower level of the space was

an exhibit of cell phone
cell phone technology.

It had media rooms it
had conference rooms and

it had an up stairs area for
private meetings.

So what we do as a firm.

We're kind of a hybrid and
a ten person firm we operate

like an architect would operate from early
Schematic design to design evolution

design development design documents and
then overseeing the construction

of the of the installation
the way we operate differently

than an architect is generally we work
with people that are more artists and

like in terms of the people that
we work with to make these pieces.

Sometimes they're one off in this
case it was one off sometimes or

several that are produced sometimes
they're maybe hundreds produced but

we're not operating traditionally like
an industrial designer would where there's

millions of pieces produced so

generally we're looking at things
that are very limited in production.

In order that one of the things
that we had as a as a vision to

expand our boundaries was
to look at operating in

different in different parts of the world
and my partner Chong is from Korea.

He had some relationships in Korea that
we've developed over the years and

for the past ten years
we've we've evolved in.

Partnership in Korea
with a couple of firms.

One of the reasons we decided to
take a different tack instead of

expanding our own firm we partnered
with these firms that would bring us

opportunities we partnered with another
firm in Dubai for the same reason.

And we partnered with a third firm in
Philadelphia for the trade show market.

So we use this as a way to get into
other areas in other countries without

having to be physically there when
we when we operate in these areas

we look at what is the what is
the culture of this this place.

What is the what may be the.

Cultural heritage of this place and
how has that cultural heritage

manifested from the historical
to what it currently is which is

international modernism So we look
at you know what are they embracing

Are they embracing the historical
embracing primarily the modern and

the same goes for Dubai primarily
embracing Modernism as well.

So we look at what is
their cultural makeup so

we know how to respond to them in terms
of what our design approach is would be.

In in terms of our strategic alliances

with the graphic design firms their firms
that are primarily non-competing firms

that would bring a sin to
project opportunities.

So the difference is in the firm
in the training of these firms for

example my background is that I see and
it was very methodological So

it was very much a systematic approach
to design and the people that we wind up

working with tend to have that same kind
of make up where they may be more paper

intensive than we are maybe idea intensive
so as we as we operate with them.

We try to bring.

A little bit of lightness or
levity to what we do as as a firm.

So when we got together with this firm.

We got together actually in Las Vegas to
kind of consummate our marriage of sorts.

I jumped up on our partner and had this
picture taken just to catch him off guard

because they're generally so guarded
in terms of how they how they operate

in terms of how they operate for
example we did a project together with

they they operate like I'm used
to during my education and

I see very methodical in
terms of presenting logic for

what we're doing presenting
the process of what we're doing in

painful detail in some respects
compared to how we may present it

more more emotionally or
more simply as opposed to telling everyone

about about all the aspects of
what it takes to do this design.

So we're kind of learning from
each other from that respect.

So as we're doing work in Korea.

Getting back to

the kind of thing I'm talking about
in terms of looking at context.

All of the visits and

the variety of trips that we take in
the Korea to understand their vernacular

materials their vernacular of landscape
their vernacular of architecture

comes in very handy because we can then
understand how to respond to a project

that we're doing that tends to be fairly
modern project bought it brings in some of

the cultural heritage of Korea in this
case we're doing a stone wall that is very

reminiscent of a stone wall that
maybe a palace wall in Seoul Palace.

We're looking at modern elements that
come in here which is a sign element that

speaks to the modernism.

A couple of years ago we were
in a part of a competition

there were three designers show.

Listed for this competition.

Carrie Murshid was one of them and
a designer out of Milan G.R.

Joe who is a deal designer we were
selected to develop a an iconic hand for

Samsung to promote their
cell phone technology and

we won the competition and
our first installation was

was installed at the Frankfurt Airport
about two months ago.

And what this what we saw this is
a departure for was a different

kind of brand communication rather than
having a billboard out there with a with

someone holding a cellphone
this element rising out of

the ground holds a cell phone a model
of a cell phone that changes and

becomes a side sculpture of sorts.

So it becomes something a little
bit more ethical than than pure

commercialism and then we've got

there's the thing about this piece is
a three three sixty degree visibility.

The second installation is
happening now in Toronto.

This is a computer simulation
of that installation.

So this has given us an opportunity
to work on a on a brand level of a of

a larger scale with Samsung by Skag to get
back to scale and talking about you know

architecture on landscape scale we look
at how these pieces sit in the landscape.

What's the appropriate scale.

How do you make something like this.

Our collaboration in this case was with a.

Professor of industrial design who has
a fabrication shop that manufactures this

piece in his in his facility in Seoul and

then they ship it to
other various locations.

So the relationship with the artists and

is is always important in most
things that we get involved with.

In Dubai.

We.

We formed a partnership with an event
design firm called H.Q. creative.

If you don't know they probably
have heard about Dubai by now but

I few years ago I didn't really
understand what was going on in Dubai.

What's going on in Dubai is there's
a tremendous amount of building boom

going on in that in that city state.

And given those opportunities
we want over and

we met with some prospective clients we
looked at what is this place all about and

this place is a vast desert or

was a vast desert and one of the things
that I learned and one of the projects

out there was we were as we were working
with a fountain designer and now I get

back the context what is what is truly
context when you see this vast array of.

Desert out there.

One of the.

One of the lighting does one of
the fountain designers on the project

decided that he was going to look
at the context of the sand and

he took twenty samples of sand
around the Dubai area and

there was a variety from
blue to red red being in

sand that was primarily near Saudi Arabia
and then there was greenish there so there

was a variety of different sand colors and
they had some of these sand melted and

turned into glass for
this fountain element.

So the context can be
something that is near and

dear to you or a context can be
something as a historical context.

Or context can be something that is.

Transitional and temporary This is
a real town this is a town called

Nothing Arizona and it's kind of describes
some of the things that we do in terms of.

When we get into a sign program for
a place we want to talk about.

The name of the town or logo for

the town we want to talk about
the sponsorship in this case.

AAA.

So here's this this town
called Nothing Arizona.

They let you know where you
are because you pulled up there and

it says you're here.

And then they let you know.

Where you.

They let you know what
the model of the town is.

In terms of.

When it was founded and
what's it all about.

So you've got all these
contests all these pieces and

if you understand the pieces that those
are in some cases they're temporal contact

by that context by that I mean the context
is made up through marketing and

Dubai is pretty much made
up through marketing.

So you have to respond to that
marketing context at that point.

Dubai.

Can be the shakes.

Home Birth place which is
this kind of vernacular or

it's the vernacular on the right
which is the contemporary slick.

High finished building which is pretty
much what the rest of Dubai is all about

and we worked on a project for

Four Seasons resort called Dubai
festival city where we look that some

semblance of pieces from the stone
material that's in the area.

The rock that's from that area
trying to anchor this into a little

bit more of a permanent context.

And in Dubai Financial Center
what we did here was a.

Entry element with L.E.D. boards this
is the stock exchange for Dubai and

a visitor center subterranean visitor
center and currently we're working

on a project called America office States
and this again in this case this is where

the architectural education comes in handy
in terms of setting an architectural for

Nakheel learn tone for
the for the property for the.

Golf Resort for the buildings for
the housing and

then beginning to design the way
finding in the graphics.

And then.

Changing scales again we were
given the opportunity to design

a half mile stretch of the airport
highway at Birmingham airport and

what we did was we with the landscape
architects we moved the we

moved the rental car units about fifty
feet behind a curb set up a berm and

then did a very simple landscape
of shrubbery that is akin to.

Cloud formation for example and then
design a series of these Chevron forms.

That are in different stages of flight and

in this case one of the things that out
again that we wind up doing just as

architects wind up doing more than you
purely as an industrial designer may do

is we collaborate with a series of
other professionals we work with

lighting designers we work with in
this case a structural engineer design

a universal joint we work with
a landscape architect and we may work

with a civil engineer in the road and
berm berms that are designed in here.

So there's a variety of people that we
wind up managing during managing or

collaborating with during that process.

Another portion of the work that we wind
up doing that is really two parts of

the work that we do one one part is
exhibits in environments that we design

and the second part is signage and
way finding programs.

This is this gives you a chronology of
how a way finding program would work for

a North Carolina State University and
it allows you to see kind of

the level of sketching and studies that we
would wind up doing on a project like that

from the approaches to the directional
information that you would have at this

campus through one of the things
that we wind up doing is we try to

in any project that we wind up doing
we get as much information as we can.

So we can gel it down
to its basic essential.

In this.

When we had received this.

Project there were I believe
fifteen different districts in this

in this campus.

Some of them noncontiguous So one of the
things we did was we turned it into five

different districts rather than having so
many it's so difficult to remember and

any time we get into projects that
are very complex we try to jump on down to

basic information because it just gets
too hard to remember either the story

the navigation and
then these are early sketches of the.

Of the entry features some of
the historical gates that we design

the signage for and
then a system of signs that would be

directional signs identification
of signs using the campus collars.

All the way down to building
identification signs.

And then this is a set of documents we do.

We do a series of construction
drawings they're not.

With engineering but they're pretty
close to having a lot of detail.

Type Poddar fee collars.

In this case go back to
the education industrial design and

looking at how a kid of parts
might be used so they could have

in this case there are maybe hundreds of
these producers not millions of them but

you you want to look at a certain point
where they can utilize these pieces for

a variety of different sign types so we
develop this kit of parts for that reason.

These are some of the details.

And then this is the tail of a trade show
booth that we did earlier this year.

This is a visitor center for
our headquarters at Georgia Pacific and

Denver.

And one of the things that we
were asked to do here is to

showcase the five thousand products

that the distribution division which
deals with construction products.

What are their products this entire hall
is about one hundred thousand square feet.

So what we did was we did
an elevated stage in the middle of

the room that people in this
side of the room could look at

people on either side of the room could
look at the concept was that these

sales people that sell these products
would be immersed in those products in

the past the sales people were part
of a warehouse where they saw and

breathe and live these products so but
what we wanted to do is to animate.

The product construct as a.

As a series of stories and the stories
were a timeline of the evolution

of their various products we use the tape
measure to be an analogy for this.

Distribution where these
products are from and

how clients use these in this case
the entire exhibit was built of.

The Georgia Pacific products
we used all their products.

Except for possibly the steel
plates that hold these pieces.

This is a show room for Hayworth which is

second largest contract furniture
manufacture in this case.

I want to speak of a graphic design and
how graphic design could influence and

environment through color through
additive color aliments that could be

affected change in the space
in this case we used.

Three three basic colors that you wind
up seeing here we use carpeting is a way

to lock pieces and we used.

Color to describe the various
product categories.

And then this is the main
feature element in the end.

Trends that had interactive in it so

we want interactive being
a computer generated film.

We want we may wind up collaborating
with people in the exhibit

area that deal with that deal with.

Interactive Media deal with computer
that deal with offsite web that

might be used in further communication
of this narrative or this story.

This is a Visitor Center for

a missionary organization in Orlando and
this gives you a feeling of.

Space and how you walk through this space.

Lighting.

Sound sound attenuation sound quality
is important to what we do here.

In this case interactive media use is a
gaming element in the middle of the space.

One of the things that we look at and
in these spaces if they become

if they are more public spaces as opposed
to the corporate one that I showed earlier

we may wind up in gauging
an environment that has for

example in this case we had stations that
were for children that would be more

positive like we had stations for teens
that would be more gaming like we had.

Touchy feely boxes that might be for
very young kids and

we also had deeper content that
you could get to as an adult.

If you chose to go through
the interactive media.

And the last project I want to
show is our crown ology for

designing the heritage hall for
Mayo Clinic male clinic is

probably the most famous
medical clinic in America and

one of the things that they've done is
the valid a significant presence and

in their headquarters town of
Rochester Minnesota they also have.

Two satellite facilities one
in Scottsdale Arizona one in

Jacksonville that we we did
some exhibit work on as well.

When we get a project like this
it's kind of like writing a book

you write the book you write
the script you get the story line and

then you figure from an environment
standpoint how does that book or

how does that that a bridge story wind
up manifesting itself in a space and

one of the things that we've learned over
time is how you how you partition or

cubicle wise a space is is
based on how how much someone

can absorb from that space because if
you if you put horse blinders on people.

Is there walking through that
space they can focus more on

the content that's in front of them as
opposed to looking at the broad space

as a whole the other thing you can do
with how you partition that space is

that that space being let's say
it's five thousand square feet.

It may be perceived that it's ten thousand
square feet by the way that you walk

through that space as opposed to seeing
an entire vast space in front of you.

So as we look at that content
we look at how do you get those

story lines to connect with
this let's say balloon diagram.

How does that story line connect how does
that story line flow into the space we

look at where the entry points
the space that first we had to

entry points we we looked we talked
to the client in terms of how how we.

Back it off to one entry point so

we could control the flow of the story
better rather than have someone

come into the middle of a story and
then we look at how how that space.

What is the nature of that current space

the nature of that current space was
that there were two separate build.

It's coming together so
we had two different ceiling heights.

We had an exterior window that
led to a lead in a lot of light.

We had an interior curved window that
you see any of the side that has visual

clutter of people walking by it so looking
at how we deal with those various issues

we brought in a sound designer in terms of
how we quiet down the space because the.

The Architects want to use
all hard surfaces on the.

On the ground plane so
you had no absorption on the carpeting.

So what we did was we had we had
attenuating surfaces on the ceiling

that you'll see in a minute.

Back to how we manage a process
like this because because of

the story is multiplied chaptered
what we do is we we take that and

we zone the spaces within the area so

we can manage it from
the content flow standpoint and

our management on our computer servers
of the various parts of the story.

So it doesn't get jumbled up and we know
what the deadlines are for the various

pieces we can manage the the sound
the interactive media we can manage the.

Visuals.

These are some of the early sketches for
the space.

And then this is the ceiling plan.

This is a detail and how how we wind
up detailing some of these things

we may when it goes to
the fabricator we might wind

up sending some some hand sketches to
kind of complement some of those so

they understand how these details
are going to work from a interactive and

sound standpoint we've got a master
plan and and a closet would contain all

the equipment and then these
are the details of some of the casework.

This is the final space you can see all.

Surfaces are fairly hard including.

The auditorium.

Everything you see here we pretty
much design the ceilings the.

The stone cladding the custom
glass piece for the vase.

And then we try to add
a little a little bit of.

Of their past history we.

We found some stained
glass that they had from

the one nine hundred twelve building when
in one thousand twelve building came down

they had the cornerstone
they had the stained glass.

We brought some of those elements in here
to bring back some anchor anchor post of

history here and
in the ceiling plane we stretched

fabric with attenuating materials we
have speakers that are essentially.

Sound arrays that are three by three feet
so when you're you're standing where

you are to me you wouldn't hear
what I'm hearing underneath this.

Speaker which is behind the fabric.

We wind up.

We wind up collaborating with a number
of people we wind up collaborating with

our own staff so it's.

The process that we go through is
not is not an individual process by

someone just individually
doing this project.

It's a number of people and
in the case of Mayo Clinic.

We want up working with their architects
to implement the space to our design.

So everything has to be
something it's a give and take.

You may feel very strong about
a certain design direction.

We may we may hear some things that we
don't want to hear from the client.

They may be great things that
actually change it for the better.

So it's a collaborative process.

What is you know what we do is.

I go back to this idea context.

You want to you want to hear the story
which is either for the signage pro.

Graham is that we do you want to
know what the what the context is so

you make that you craft that design

to be based on the expression of
their their needs or their narrative.

But I've brought in here if you're after.

We're all done here.

If you're headed out of here.

I've got some process
books on Mayo Clinic.

And Sony and a couple copies of
the book that I've written which is.

I think in the library I don't know
if you place that in a library.

Beer but I think at this point I'd
like to just kind of open it up to

some questions or comments.

Now

it's a testament basically build a paper
model we build a paper model rather

I mean we want to do is to the whole idea
and what you saw with the kit of parts was

with a very simple fabrication
in this case rolling

the material we were able to get depth
because if the sign was just flat.

It would look like a piece of paper
between two columns the minute we pop

out just a little bit.

It creates a dimensional quality.

So basically we knowing what we
know about how things are made.

We put that together and then we put the
drawing together then we work with a we

work with a fabricator in Louisville.

That was awarded the prototype and they
put the prototype up and then we tweak

the prototype afterwards I don't know if
it was I don't know if he really that

was much tweaking I think they pretty much
stuck with right we installed out there.

So.

The thing that was.

You know there is a level of gratification
in these three disciplines that

I wind up talking about that.

We want to get involved in graphic
designers get immediate gratification.

They can print something that can be you
know sent to the laser printer be done in

five seconds sent to the printer
be done in three weeks

in North Carolina State University
was designed ten years ago and

it's finally implemented.

So there is some level of patience and

some things that we do generally our
projects are about two to three years

from beginning to end and we do have some
that are the most immediate gratification

projects are the trade shows
trade shows can be like Sony was.

Like a Bat Out Of Hell it
was it was ninety days

from the concept to the implementation and
it was installed

over a three day period taken down
over a three day period stood up for

a three day period so it was some
projects are are are quicker than others.

In terms of the projects that we do
that are let's say sign programs when

an architect gets involved in the project
it's probably a three year time span and

we have to communicate with the architect
for electrical loads of structural loads.

So there's a lot of I mean I know as
an industrial design you're going to have

a lot of communication with with
engineers etc But I think this

is fairly intensive not as intensive maybe
is as architecture as a responsibility but

there's a reason I showed you that
one diagram of the Mayo Clinic

with the with the areas there's just so
much information coming towards us and

our it's our responsibility to
manage all that information because.

Just a lot of things that
can fall through the cracks.

Just like they may in architecture.

I'm like I'll meet you.

First the first one is how many how do we
decimate a fee generally it's just from

experience.

We know of losing losing our
shirts on previous ones we wind up

getting smart enough to know what
we need to charge for it and

how many iterations we
may we may go through.

We generally show three
probably three alternatives.

And most of the time one of those three
alternates are chosen there's some

times when we have to go back
the drawing board and show an extra one.

The causes

delays on a project is one would be a and

unprepared client that doesn't have that
has a short time frame of response but

is still prepared to deliver
every project that we do.

It's not only us that has
something to deliver.

It's our client Our client
has to deliver criteria

our client has to deliver a story.

Our client has to approve
a design direction so

that that on both sides of the fence
there are responsibilities that each

player has and if we have which
we've had a couple occasions where

clients just weren't delivering
bake spec that us to deliver.

That's that's that's one
of the shortfalls or

how things can be delayed another
way things can be delayed is.

Choosing the wrong contractor and
the contractor has no idea the quality

levels that we have that we're demanding
and that's why it behooves us to short.

And choose the right kind
of people whenever we can.

There are times when we are stuck with
someone the general contractor winds up

choosing so they can back in
the lead in case of a trade show or

anything that has a fixed date that
it must be installed that's that's

a very you know that's that's
dangerous because if you have to be

March fifteenth you have to be
installed at let's say that convention.

It's there's no excuses for
it to be not installed.

So there's a lot of liability
in terms of who you choose

to be your partner on that I think.

Matt was a.

Well actually I had that same.

Critique by.

By a man named Charles Grom to me.

I don't know if you're familiar with me.

SIEGEL architects we worked with them on
an I.B.M. project in North Carolina about

ten years ago and I presented
a portfolio ten years older than this.

During a presentation he looked at he says
because his work is just there's a thread

like Richard Myers has a thread or even.

Rob Johnson has a thread or
Frog Design has

a thread you know what we will we
wind up doing as we wind up respond.

That's the last statement I was saying
we respond to the client's context and

what their story is and
if their story is is.

This something that's more vibrant then.

Then another one or
if their story is more subtle if for

example the difference between
Georgia Pacific bright and V.H.S.

attitude compared to the downplayed and

institutional attitude that we take
with male male is a certain kind of.

Buttoned up organization on the other
hand I think we pushed Georgia Pacific to

be that because why not make two by fours
fon I mean if you make two by fours just

like a two by four what we did was we turn
a two by four and made it come to life.

So sometimes you can take some liberties
with clients or where you want to push

clients with every job that you take but
mostly you need to respond to their story.

Otherwise you're doing it.

And you know just as to what
you have been hired for.

Yeah well I think it is there.

It put it in a box around the criteria
around what you're doing to respond to and

how you craft what you're doing.

That's what makes it fun.

I mean everything has
some criteria around it.

We bring we bring in professionals
that wind up doing that.

We in the case of Mayo.

There is a graphic design guideline for
colors for logos for type hogger fi.

So we respond to that in
case in most projects we

would pretty much respond to that
if we take a different tact.

Then we would make sure we get in the same
room with these interactive people

that like for example we did interactive
media at Georgia Pacific with the bright

colors that you saw there would
probably want to incorporate that

in there as opposed to having
everything be kind of gray and white.

It just wouldn't work.

You want to have the same
kind of attitude.

Yeah

we've had run fabricated it work for
twenty five years.

We've got a relationship in
a small fabricator we've got

a couple of them in New Jersey in
Canada that we've worked with for

a number of years that
are very tight corporate.

More corporate fabricators that are very
tight in terms of their detailing and

can handle bigger projects we look at

can they bring the resources to the table
to bring all that together because

one of the things we don't want
to do is we don't want to.

And we've done this before is the educate
and I'm qualified fabricator and

struggle through the whole process and
getting them to give us what is

their best but
it's just totally unacceptable to us and

then go through that whole process
because it's just it's painful.

So at the you know the client
gets a series a bid.

We have the qualified fabricator at
five hundred thousand dollars and

we have the young qualified fabricator
at two hundred fifty thousand dollars.

Basically it costs us probably
an extra hundred thousand

dollars to manage the guy
who's who submitted to fifty.

Because he doesn't know what he's doing.

So he people like that don't know how
to do a shop drawing they basically

take our design drawings paste them on
their format send it back to us and

say we're ready to build and
that's not acceptable.

You need to give us some details people
that know what they're doing and

I think I may have some shop drawings and
one of these packages here they submit

a series of details of how these things
come together just like when we visited.

With Josh that
the Solar Decathlon building

how he put those columns together in there
how those nuts are coming into that space.

You know we what we thrive on is
to have someone that knows more

than we do and doesn't tell us.

Let's do it this way it's cheaper for
us to make more money this way.

I don't care.

I mean what I really care
about is getting treated fair.

Early and having someone in lightened and
say this is how we could do it.

This is a better way to do it.

It's going to look better for
what you're doing and

that's really fantastic and the people
that we found over the US why we

go back to those people
because they're very bright.

They make suggestions that are going
to make what we do better and

it doesn't matter as a designer even you
know as a product designer any kind of

designers a graphic designer
doesn't matter how wonderful.

We've tailed all these things and
I just when I first started in my career.

It was just wonderful.

You get these drawings and they're
fantastic and you're so proud of it and

if somebody screws this thing up.

This is worthless because your product.

What your reputation lies on is how
this in the case of a prominent

museum where and
tear on it how it sits how how.

The quality of touch and feel in that
space is going to happen immediately.

But how that space is going to wear and
tear over a six month twelve month.

Eighteen month period.

You don't want this
thing to fall apart and

be a piece of crap after you've installed
it because that's again a reflection on

what you have contributed
to this environment so

that's why again that it that quality
that contractors really important.

I

don't know if it's a template
I mean again in my.

It's I'm talking a methodology in my
education and the education was extremely

methodological chuckle and
I don't know if you know Chuck and I but

Chuck just published the book and
methodology it's just coming out right.

Now for my I.T.
that kind when you when you set up.

Rigor of how you collect information for
example you saw on a diagram for

Mayo Clinic what we did was we turned
the plan into into a format that

we could accept the information for those
various pieces so we could manage that.

Various content and

we use that as a way to communicate
to the Coyote say Area One is

the introductory area let's get all that
information together let's get the in.

The interactive that's going to go there.

What kind of screen do you want
to use there what kind of sound.

We want there.

Yeah.

To

something.

Well I mean part of it.

Do we have what do we do for
that format I don't know

if we really necessarily do
a format we do we do some level of.

You know repeating back to the client
what what they're saying we add to that

it's a narrative it's a written narrative
so it's kind of a plan of sorts.

It's basically like chapter outlines.

I don't know if we do much more than that.

Really.

And it's not it's not all emotionally
based that is collecting all there.

Let's say all the product
lines that Georgia Pacific has

we want to know very
clearly what product lines

are in we found out that they had five
thousand different product lines.

Then that gay.

It's a beginning we found out how they
distribute their products differently than

they used to distribute their
products we found a management.

Corporate repositioning plan of how
they're going to change their business

model from what they used to have
a hundred distribution centers

to to and how that's going to change how
that's going to change their response time

how it's going to change the fact that
they used to have old Bob in the back

room that knew this stuff in an hour and
they got a friend who just came and

got an M.B.A. and
doesn't know crap about glam beam.

This is.

Yeah we have a synopsis it's kind
of a synopsis document of what we

were given from then respond back
to that and then we respond back

with we may respond on certain points if
we don't know we didn't get it from them.

This is what we need
responding back from you.

So it's kind of a kind of
a programming document of sorts to

get them to say yes this is
the way we're going to go and

then by the way we've got a certain
amount of questions what we do.

In Again this is in the later
phases we wind up doing.

A spread sheet that has all
those pieces in there and

then we have a comments column that says
we need this buy this and this date.

So there's some kind of tracking of all
these various pieces but that's after.

The

stuff is you know.

Is pretty much not very usable you know.

Just like anything else and
if this room gets changed.

I don't know if they still figured out
what to use what to do with all these

pieces in here we weren't
given that as a criteria.

Had we been given that as a criteria.

We may have responded to
you know they would create.

Other things out of it.

Table tops for schools or you know
something else but I mean here you've got

four trailer loads of stuff that
essentially goes into a dumpster.

So when you think about
today's green philosophy.

It's not very green do you create it with.

Plastic laminate or
did you create it with.

A paint that you could change
something else to if we create it with

plastic laminate it doesn't look
like a disaster waiting to happen.

But if we don't put
the plastic plan on there.

We could use that stuff for
something else but

I I don't know if we've really
taken you know I don't know.

Josh if you in the shop
that you work that whether

anybody ever thought about any that kind
of stuff I can't recall anything really.

That's just beginning to happen
right now because there's just

a tremendous amount of waste
in some of these projects.

Well I think they'd be open for

now because it just makes them
just a marketing marketing

points with their clientele that they've
taken that kind of green attitude and

make it you know it may give us as
a design firm points to do to take

something a little more
consciously like that.

Actually

what you've seen here is not
even the biggest There's.

There's a museum has about seventy
five thousand square feet.

The Children's Museum that we did
pretty much from soup to nuts.

Everything and

there's a five hundred thousand square
foot theme park that we did in Tokyo.

So the philosophy that I
have is take the scariest

next scariest project you could
possibly finagle yourself into.

And just sweat it out and
and deliver the goods.

You know don't do it.

I mean we've never taken.

I mean I'm saying as a ten person
firm to take a five hundred

thousand square foot park.

We don't know anything about dark
rides we don't know anything about all

the contraptions that take all that
stuff in there but we take it on and

we manage to survive on that
project that we take on

a children's museum everything that I've
ever done and designer this firm is doing.

We try to finagle with the client
to tell them in fact there's

been certain projects that we were thought
to be hired for something else and they

said by the way we've got this exhibit of
pursuing a signage program we've got this

Exhibit five thousand square foot exhibit
this was fifteen years ago and we've never

done one that big it was not that huge but
it was big at that time and I said well

yeah we let the submit that qualifications
and we did that we got that one.

We didn't get them and we were chasing so.

One of the reasons I went back
to architecture school is

because I was bored.

And in any time you get
into a situation that's

what I find exciting about the mergers
of the three disciplines or

even just industrial
design is that you can.

Chameleon yourself to doing so

many different things you can be
a package designer you can be.

Exhibit designer.

I mean just as an industrial designer you
can do all these various things that I

showed here without
going back to school for

architecture without going back to school
for graphic design finding the right

partners to work with you can do so
many different things and

you can reinvent yourself every step of
the way one one time we're doing a story

about a medical institution and next time
we're doing a story of two by fours.

I mean how different can that be.

You know you just you just find those
crazy opportunities lying out there and we

nuff people that we've developed over the
thirty years that we've been in business

you know how crazy we are to take these
opportunities so they bring these things

to us and they say how would you like to
handle this kind of thing I got a friend

a call from me said friend of mine he said
that we worked with him on a small project

he said I've got this five hundred
thousand square foot theme park in Tokyo.

It's in the basement of the Alps and
I thought this is weird.

They built the Alps on top and

we got the basement underneath
the Alps and and I said no.

We'll take that on.

So it's just I think that's what that's
what I think has made it exciting for

us the weirder the more challenging
the scarier the better.

Actually when things go so smooth and

we're doing things that we know
what we're doing every step of

the way that's that's the point I went
back to architecture school I was bored.

I knew exactly what the program was
we're going to do this this and that and

it was just wasn't exciting anymore so
I think that's that's the opportunity you

have as an industrial designer is you can
you can be doing so many different things.

Well

in that in that Mayo Clinic that I was
telling you that and the other one was.

Wycliffe the word spring
project when we looked that

at Mayo Clinic we had a much
better budget to work with so

we looked we brought in an acoustic
designer so that we were able to design

a very effective sealing plan but
also from the sound standpoint.

As I'm speaking right now or
someone is speaking.

Let's say I've got a media right here.

And it's speaking at the same intensity
level that I'm speaking right now

the sound element that we had was
essentially the size of that two by two

ceiling tile but
it had like a two degree draft of sound so

it comes in here I can hear
it at this level of decibels.

But you can't hear it.

It's just kind of it's kind of a bizarre
technology but we look at how we

can use some of that if it's affordable
in this case we could afford it.

So we use that and then how do you manage
sound absorption in a space when you've

got a lot of hard surfaces we need to
look at that and then how do you manage.

Writing.

How do you manage distraction of
lighting for example if there is a.

If if if I'm speaking right now in this
room and there's a window right there.

You're not going to be focused on this.

You may be focused on some
poppy out there on the lawn.

So you got to be careful on
how you handle that aspect to.