Her research for
the good side of this here is that.

And the focus on this was just to.

Get out of balance of course that time for
you to sit this $100.00

hours to talk about a particular
subject or just from their perspective.

Just bring a larger audience together much

want to have made
comments raise questions.

But it's way too good.

To disappear most of this.

Discussion within our college or
college course.

That robbery suspect design has

the architecture school the planning
the building construct.

And it is.

So cool I always liked music blasting.

Everything that's the.

Forums on the back of.

The sun is the notion of
nothing which we are forced.

To do 1st we love to do these.

Urban Meyer Yeah well this is.

Good but.

But but there is so
much going on in this city to

argue with a lot of us are telling us
there's a great deal of work going

on just how that relates to that
you know we're not over we're not

good scientists as are good clones or
it isn't there so we.

Respect the college and and
we have for the 1st time.

To get.

Outside the college.

And it actually costs are in college.

But he also says director for
the Center for

Ethics in technology clean tech so
something that you wear this I just.

It's really.

Neat.

That we meet someone who really
knows something about values just.

To be part of this is so good to

talk 1st focus and
also talk about these latest hot.

After that.

I think I've I've done
that like I said I have

I think I've had that I think
the last that she said I was.

Sure I have said.

You know who is the director.

Was was formally.

Married centers How city are serious for
a city like this that they should.

Have.

Said that.

Well thank you for the invitation Can you
all hear me or right back OK thank you for

the invitation again thank you for the
introduction My name is Jason Borenstein I

do work for the office office where
I do studies along with the school

public policy and a lot of what I do
here at Georgia Tech is ethics related

ethics of technology one of my main
research areas is related to robotics.

Within that area I work a fair amount
on solving cars Autonomy's vehicles but

beyond that I work on issues related to
health care robots the ethics of health

care robots including robotic
exoskeletons some of what I look at is

trust issues well and people might
under or over trust robots and

what kinds of arms may emerge as a result
of that now of course today because

the focus is urban automation I will
primarily discuss Thomas vehicles that

will be the primary thing that I
mentioned and one of my main goals for

my short introduction to this area is to
talk about some of the ethical issues at

different levels or different levels of
cranial layer the are different levels of

scale largely talk about
ethical issues of 3 main realms

1st as related to an individual vehicle so
there's of course a lot of effort.

Relating to an individual self guarding
car urban automation means lots of things

but what all largely focus on for
today's is a vehicle and

more specifically that is a vehicle
used by passengers more or

less not in other words I'm not larger
than a talk about commercial vehicles like

trucks a large we talk about what we
might all use down the road so to speak

an individual passenger Autonomy's
vehicle so in terms of the individual

vehicle the literature discussed
a fair amount the trolley problem

which is suspect if you've talked about
autonomy vehicles you probably run across

that to some degree I'm probably not going
to focus too much on that particular issue

although of course I'm happy to
discuss it later if you'd like but

among the ethical issues emerging is of
course the trolley problem or so-called

no win situation where someone is going
to be a harm to true ethical dilemma so

that some of what's discussed relating
to an individual vehicle also of course

there's issues related to privacy so
we're already aware that our data is being

shared with lots of different kinds of
companies and entities Well this will

likely continue with this off vehicle
because there there may be a lot of

different entities interested in the data
relating to that where that car goes and

of course could reveal
our travel patterns etc

There's also issues related to how these
vehicles are going to interact with.

So for instance when we're going through
a cross walk sometimes we informally or

subtly communicate with drivers
of cars we may give them a nod or

nonverbal communication to go ahead
we may waive them on so to speak so

we may actually have the right away but
we want to be able to go 1st because we

want to take our time for example and
whether those kinds of communication and

those kinds of communications can be built
into a car remains largely remains to be

seen so that's one level brainy Larry or
one level scale we could talk about

the 2nd level is when these technologies
you can interact with one another.

So 1st I was talking about
an individual car interacting let's say

with pedestrians for
example but the 2nd level is.

Different types of self driving vehicles
on the same roads how they can interact

with one another so in the in
the literature in discussions about Thomas

vehicles we often refer to levels of
driving automation level 0 to 5 and

for those who are not terribly familiar
with these levels 0 it sensually means

there's no driving automation in the car a
traditional kind of car that we would have

had on the road in prior decades level
5 essentially means that the car can do

essentially anything a human being could
do in a car that it more or less mimics or

can emulate anything a human driver can do
would be Level 5 well for the forseeable

future in the coming years and decades
we'll probably have cars with different

levels of driving automation on the same
roads and this adds complexity to trying

to predict how these cars are going to
interact so for example around level 2 or

Level 3 driving automation the car can
take over some tasks for instance control.

You can modify cruise control for
instance or may be able to parallel park

it may be able to drive on highways
as long as there is some level of

superhuman supervision but Level 2 or
Level 3 of driving automation does require

a human to supervise it doesn't require
a human being to intervene especially

especially in states the safety critical
situations level for level 5 more or

less is not expecting a human being to
intervene but if you have these different

levels of automation on the same roads
it adds layers of complexity in terms of

predicting how these cars might
interact with one another so

one car might not expect a human being
to intervene and it's driving tasks but

the other might and the ones that require
a human being to intervene we know that

human beings sometimes are distracted
they sometimes are impaired

you know drinking or doing other kinds of
activities that can impair their reaction.

Times so this can of course add
complexities to predicting how they may

interact on the roads so that's another
layer layer of ethical issues to

tend to look at is the safety risks and
other related problems a can occur and

then lastly talk about ethical issues
at the broader system kind of level so

among these kinds of issues that
I'm getting at here at level

at this 3rd tier of ethical issues is
how are cities might change due to

the introductions of these technologies so
for example how's going to change or

interceptions going to change where
pedestrians can cross for example

are we going to add lights or remove them
from intersections so there are already

predictions that we may have centrally
managed intersections without the need for

lights if most of the intersections are
going to be used by Thomas vehicles for

efficiency A and speed maybe you don't
need traffic lights if the flow of

traffic essentially manage so you might
ask the ethical issues of merging there

the issues could be pertaining to social
justice so for example if you prioritize

traffic for the Thomas vehicles and
say that's the 1st priority

then what happens to bicyclists and
pedestrians so in centrally managed

intersections if they're more or
less built around a design for

the technology what does it do to other
modes of transportation for example and

there are other kinds of issues
relating to infrastructure and

design of cities that may be built around
these these technologies again largely

I'm talking about autonomy as vehicles
What does it do to parking spaces there's

lots of different predictions about
whether we'll need more fewer as a result

of the creation of these technologies
I would say at least in the literature

I'm reading is not a straight forward to
say parking spaces are going to go away

it really depends in part on
the type of ownership that may occur

with these vehicles meaning roughly are we
individually going to own the vehicle or

are we going to rent them what's going
to be the model of ownership vehicles so

again that's just a broad introduction to
different types of ethical issues emerging

related to the technology and

hopefully will discuss these during
the discussion period later on.

Thank you.

OK All right.

So we're going to shift gears.

And full disclosure in no way
am I an expert on ethics and

values on urban nation but
I'm doing a lot of research and

have been for some time the diffusion
of robotics and automation

the implications for
local labor forces local economies and

the implications for the cities and
how our cities develop So

let me just share with you some of the
things i a key findings from a key article

I've read that tells me a lot about what I
think we should be thinking about many of

the unresolved issues and then I'll switch
to talking about some of my own research.

But but through this I want to
the 1st part of really thinks more

about sort of public sector perspectives
within the urban context and

what what these public sectors
perspectives could be or should be

according to in particular kitchen who
published a really interesting article in.

The fullest philosophical trance.

The Philosophical Transactions
Royal Society journal

on the ethics of smart
cities in urban science and

then move to talk a little about
perspectives from the private sector.

So in the public sector Roland
urban animation in Smart Cities

kitchen defines data driven urban
ism as a computational understanding

of city systems that reduces urban life
to logic and calculative rules and

procedures and because of that
there are serious implications for

privacy data cation data valence and
Geo surveillance and data uses for

social sorting in anticipated Tory
governance and there are a range of.

Entities from which which are collecting
this data this is urban data including

our utility companies our transport
providers our mobile phone operators

travel and accommodation
websites social media sites and.

Crowdsourcing and

citizen science as well as government
values in public administration so

a range of those who are just after you
are not really public entities however.

They rely on public rights of way and
are often regulated by the public

sector a few others I should have
mentioned are financial institutions and

retail chains are all collecting
data private surveillance and

security firms emergency services
which is back to public sector and

then even increasingly our home
appliance in entertainment systems.

So they because they are in many ways
governed by the public sector and

report rely a public sector right away.

I believe the public sector has a key
role to play in determining how we define

intreat ethics and
values in urban automation.

So the promise of urban big data and
what's very exciting about

the research in the work that goes on it
is that it can produce a highly granular

longitudinal whole system understanding
of a city system enabling them to

be managed in real time that's the promise
that's what people are trying to achieve.

The original realist the piston driving
the production of urban data was

one that held that such data can
be problematic Lee abstracted

from the world in neutral value
free in objective ways and

this was subsequently criticized
by social scientists for

collapsing diverse individuals and complex
multidimensional social structures and

relationships to abstract data points and
universal formulae and

loss therefore ignoring the role of
politics ideology social structures

capital and culture in shaping urban
relations governance and development.

So kitchen identifies really 2 ethical

issues key major issues in
what is called data driven

urban ism and they fall into
the categories 1st of data for

cation in privacy and
data use sharing and repurpose and.

So because of free time
I'll just focus for

example on the privacy issues
there are multiple ways

urban data collection can breach
privacy it can be our bodily privacy.

That.

When which we have the expectation to
protect the integrity of the physical

person territorial privacy your
personal space objects and

property location and movement privacy
privacy which I think fairly self evident

Communications Privacy and then
transactions privacy to protect against

the monitoring of queries searches
purchases and other exchanges.

The key point here is that all of that

can be breached by the urban
data collection and.

And in doing so the urban data science
itself is not providing an objective

neutral and all encompassing view of
the city which initially was sort of

one of the lot of promises of it so and

indeed it provides a particular view
of the city through a specific lens and

this is something that is needs to be
thoroughly mapped out and addressed and

one of the issues again because of
the complex of the of the subject but.

There is some argue that.

The ethical frameworks some of
these issues that about privacy for

example can be.

Interpreted is that individuals
are gifting or sharing their data on

a voluntary basis or for
that they're what they're getting for

their data are beyond been
the tangible returns so

that it is not there is not a ethical
dilemma in the collection of that data but

the reality is that many of you may have
had your own experience with this you know

you click on downloading an app or
some some purchase potations participating

in some form of what will ultimately
be urban data collection and

in order to have access to that app or
that service

you have to agree there privacy rules it's
compulsory you don't have any choice so

if you're going to participate in many
aspects of the urban economy in every

society at this point it is compulsory
sorry that you accept these terms which.

Breach your privacy so.

The benefit that sharing data
the status called sharing data.

Are in.

The way which is collected are stacked
in favor of those capturing the data

which can subsequently be monetized and

shared with 3rd parties in used
against individual interest.

So ethical practice would be to
require those give to the data to have

full details of what the data are being
generated what additional data are being

inferred from them and to have shared
control and benefit and how data relating

to them are subsequently use this
requires full noticing consent and

the key value of transparency with respect
to the actions of data controllers and

processors so that's sort of an overview
of some of the dilemmas with and

with me not providing any
solutions particularly except for

saying this should be the way
in which it's approached.

So shifting more to address
concerns over private sector or

an animation I'm going to
just briefly finish up with.

Him with something that illustrates my
own particular view through a specific

limbs the lens of economic
development planning and

briefly talk about how e-commerce driven
which is very much an urban data.

Phenomenon.

Is is changing urban
supply chain logistics.

So this the disclosure on my
own particular view is that.

I make a distinction between what we call
traditional economic development which is

focused on the creation of wealth and jobs
and sustainable economic development which

my values in ethics say needs to
be more than economic growth and

job and wealth creation because it doesn't
take into account the distribution of that

job and wealth creation and who has
access to higher quality of life and

standards of living except in as
probably many of you know one of

the biggest societal issues that we have
in our own country and around the world is

growing inequality so traditional
economic development really does focus on

inequality that focuses on growth so
my own definition and

those that work more from a sustainability
perspective say that economic development

is achieved when a community standard
of living can be preserved and

increased through a process of human and
physical development that is based on

principles of equity and sustainability it
establishes a minimum standard of living

of all that rises over time as our
economies in pants it reduces inequality

between demographic groups that based
on age gender race ethnicity and

other criteria and spatially
defined groups such as indigenous

populations versus newcomers
central cities versus suburbs and

it promotes and encourages sustainable
resource use in production.

So looking at through
that lens at e-commerce.

It's it's a very interesting set of
issues that are arising e-commerce for

those of you that don't know is actually
the the buying of goods the the Internet.

It's one of the biggest forces driving
the restructuring of our retail chains

in wholesale chain outlets as
well as how goods are transported

so so there and it's very much

it's having a strong footprint on our
metropolitan areas what we're seeing is

that there are enormous warehouses some of
them as biggest $22.00 football fields or

more occurring on the Metropolitan
fringes impacting smaller communities and

then there is the issue of what
we call the last mile delivery

into urban centers because one of
the key elements of e-commerce these

days is the expectation that you are going
to receive whatever you have ordered.

Potentially in as little as an hour but
certainly within the span of a day or

2 and that really drives having
really many trips going into

urban centers so it also has creating
a lot of competitive pressures on.

The supply chain in the warehouse
is because they have to have so

much more activity which is in
the competing with others the Amazons

in the Wal-Mart everyone's competing with
Amazon right so you have Amazon then you

have the rest of the supply chain and
they're trying to move faster and to do so

less expensively so that the packaging
can be cheaper to deliver exam so.

The issue there is that.

I was there a lot of land use implications
I'm going to focus on the job

implications.

The issue is that automation is being used
heavily to try and make the e-commerce or

supply chain competitive our metro
area with other major areas and

that in turn is introducing more robotics
and automation into warehouses and

that in turn there's a whole aspect of
this is their warehouse workers and

then their truck drivers who are the other
big group I'm going to stay away from

truck drivers chase and are even talking
a little bit about the Thomas vehicles and

there are Thomas trucks in in development.

But the issue is what's happening to these
workers because the workers themselves and

let me back up just for
a 2nd so here is a.

Ethic or a value that it's put forward by
the United Nations Universal Declaration

of Human Rights which says that
everybody has the right to work

to free choice of employment to just
in favorable conditions of work and

to have protections against
unemployment that's a that's part of

the universal Dellec Declaration
of Human Rights which

is not something that we see referred to
very much as we're going through major

restructuring such as what's
happening in the comers but but

if we want to employ that lens
then we look at the work and

see how that does or
does not meet that that human right.

Basically the work in warehouses
is what we call precarious work

it's low wages unstable work arrangements
temporary employment that for

the reduces wages there's under
employment economic insecurity

no employer provided benefits and
a real lack of legal and

regulatory protections so that's the work
in the sector that is growing so

much and for which there's a shortage of
supply of workers at the same time that.

There is other nation and
robotics being introduced into it.

Companies employ this model because
they work in a market based economy and

there are very strong competitive
pressures which I was alluding to them

the global come competition needs to.

Need to out source a lot of their
activities to 3rd parties in order to

maintain their their competitiveness and
also in many ways to shield themselves

from some of the implications of
the labor force that issues that they're.

In they're having to
deal with are having to

offer conditions that
are less than desirable.

So the jobs themselves have
a deteriorating job quality

a lot of the jobs are now
temporary workers

particularly in the Amazon warehouses that
are going up all over the country and

there are several in this metro area and
more in process.

There temporary work they they have
to ramp up during high seasons for

commerce which of course is the holiday
period and then there's a core of

permanent workers in the temporary workers
are always hoping they're going to make it

into the core jobs but the only
way they do that is by showing and

they're being monitored continually
with sensors in other forms of mation.

That the that they are the most
productive workers and

these workers work 12 hours
a day on their feet running and

collecting packages and
getting into other places the robots being

introduced are mobile robots we we
don't have the problem of picking

robot going in be able to pick a package
off the shelf result at this point so

but the Mobile Robots are moving the goods
closer to the workers that they can pick

them up and in some ways that's
an improvement but there is a lot of.

Prog potential for automation to go
into the warehouses that May the jobs or

it may change the jobs and
that's where the question comes back

to the human rights and the quality of
jobs that are there Kim as we adapt

the out of the warehouses explicitly
be thinking about this and looking for

ways in which to adjust this work that
will improve their conditions and

the pyramids of their work and make and
share with them some of the increased

productivity and the revenue that comes
from that with the workers so that's part

of the perspective that I would suggest
this is relevant to be thinking about.

Urban automation for

a work it also applies very much to
manufacturing which is the other sector

I'm looking at and I will stop there
because I think it takes too much time.

OK.

But.

I think it'll merge I don't know about
this that much about the subject but

I do think it's important to care.

So I'm going to Sheldon most of
you know I run a program around

building information modeling simulation.

That whole side of.

Building representation which
is now becoming key to.

So the interaction between information and
the built environment so again where

I came from was using 3 D. models and data
for design engineering construction and

the inevitable consequence of that is now
that we have these digital assets when

they come out into the when the buildings
done we have what's called a digital twin

which is essentially digital asset
that is a mirror both spatially and

in terms of information for for
what's happening in the built environment.

And by connecting the digital
to the physical through sensors.

And actuators.

The.
Is this increasing convergence between

digital and physical aspects of the built
environment so that's where I've been

coming from historically this
stuff has been fairly done but

it's been ubiquitous so there are many
sensors in this room they are here for

one purpose which is to.

Turn things on and
off in optimize usage of resources but

in fact the capabilities can be used for
many other things and

I've been pretty clear for and I'm I have
to say I'm excited about this possibility

of the impact the potential impact
of digital understanding and

its increasing convergence with
physical experience and operation in

the built environment so this is very much
a piece of where things are going for me.

I sometimes get a little bit polemic or
overly excited and

talk about the the built environment as a
as the next generation complaint form for

computing and
I don't think that's necessarily.

Just a metaphorical So
the notion is yeah I mean

you know again this is a great prop
right and now I have one of the and

pretty soon you know it will
be on my fingernail but

more importantly it's going to be in
the world right we're not going to need

devices for interaction with information
it's just going to be around us right so.

So you know some of the applications
that I'm getting excited about are again

historically has been build building usage
and performance how do we save energy how

to make sure the lights aren't turning you
know how that aren't sitting being turned

on when we're not using them increasingly
in things like workplace there is a notion

that you know basically most office
buildings you know have lots of names.

On spaces but

they're empty almost all the time I
think there's sort of like 25 percent or

30 percent utilization so there's
new ways of thinking about work and

the relationship to personal space in the
in the commercial or business environment.

And lots of stuff about sort of tracking
and monitoring the usage of space to make

that more optimal again in terms
of consumption of space but

there is something more profound going
on where there's a potential interaction

between the ways that we use
space as workers potentially and

productivity and that's something that
you can monitor very effectively and

start making hypotheses about that there's
a lot of interest as Nancy said in retail.

And how we can better understand
people's perceptions and

experience of Commerce and
consumer you know consumer

interactions there's something called
now there's a term called impressions

which is you know if you go into a store
you may not actually buy something but

people based on your behavior in that
store can figure out how interested you

are in something you know people
are coming up now with dynamic pricing and

advertising and things like that.

So you don't get very far before
the questions of kind of ethics around

information usage and you know who owns it
where is it generated What are my rights

around that all of the things that are
happening online start becoming part of

the spatial experience but of course you
know and you know of course there's Alexa

and things like that but the difference
is people are remarking as you know a web

page you can close your browser but
you can't close space I mean it's so

there's a possible sort of
in escape ability of that.

And I have for a long time at least
mentally I don't think of our public say

publicly said this Well I'm not
an ethicist but I don't think you.

I don't think that's an excuse anymore so
I think even though it's not

my area I think it's something
I have to be interested in so.

So I would also say that you
know I'm I'm working with

one of the things that I'm
fascinated by also is.

You know the kind of the history and
narrative around

modern Sometimes it's called
cyberpunk architecture but

there's kind of an interesting heritage in
science fiction about these kind of things

lots of really interesting imagery in
movies and possible speculation about

a future type of experience of space that
is this kind of hybrid of physical and

digital augmented reality all that kind
of stuff so really the next generation of

architecture has to assume that it's
a hybrid digital physical experience right

and I think that's really that's probably
a fun although often dystopic thing to

think about so as I was realizing
that I had nothing to say about this

last couple days at 3 AM last
night not like last night but

the night before this thing
showed up which is a new book by.

Zubov OK some of this will be apparently
the Thomas Piketty equivalent but

it's called the age of surveillance
capitalism and this will be if it's not

already the New York Times bestseller It
seems like it will because it's striking

a nerve and I'm going to read
a specific passage from the.

Mature have the right one OK So
surveillance capital surveillance

capitalism unilaterally claims human
experience as free raw material for

translation into behavioral data although
some of these data are applied to service

improvement so you get a better experience
the rest in this is really fast and

the rest are declared as
proprietary behavioral surplus.

So there's the stuff that you're aware
of that you're exchanging within

the environment and then there's
a stuff that can be inferred and

current legal and
political boundaries have no.

Even no recognition that that exists but
there's all we all think we all know this

is sort of ancillary hypotheses that
are being made about your behavior that

you don't even know about and the only
people that know about are the people that

are collecting inferring from that data so
this behavior 1st surplus

fed into advanced manufacturing processes
known as machine intelligence and

fabricated into prediction products that
anticipate what you will do now soon and

later finally these prediction
products are traded in a new kind of

marketplace called behavioral
futures markets so

this is is intended to make
predictions individually and

collectively about what we will do
not just what we're doing already and

and hypothesis this book is that this is a
new model of capitalism and I think again

you can't get very far in the stuff and
to get to the politics and the economics

of these things so really quickly to
wrap up I think we're all running long.

I haven't read the 600 page book
because it just came out but

there's a great synopsis of it in
the Guardian and I think there

are the guardian kind of straddles there
are you know they're very liberal but

they're also techies so I think they
have a they see I think they see.

A set of possibilities around this so
the conclusion I don't think this

is just on is conclusion but
it may be the availability and

control of personal information
isn't a technological inevitability.

Privacy can be introduced but
it takes it actually you know

it's going to take democracy and
you know and and the will of

the people to take a position on this
because right now it's not even so.

Part of it we don't even see it I
think there's aspects we don't see.

I would point to some positive
technologies that that deal with this one

is encryption is a great I don't know
how many of you I mean everybody uses

encryption that is a public
you know a public open source

technology that is ubiquitous about
protecting people's information it's very

simple to do it's almost
impossible to crack which is why

you know governments are trying to put
back doors into these things because it

actually is fairly bulletproof at
least today there are cameras.

That do onboard processing
of information so

they may infer behaviors about crowds but

not actually be able to do
anything with the video of that.

My wife as I was talking to her this
morning about this mention Tim Cook has

certainly the big one is the European
general data protection regulation G D P R

which is you know a a set of democracies
that are staking a legal claim

a legal position about this there's a lot
of pushback in many parts of the world

Tim Cook from Apple has suggested
that G.D.P. are become the law

of the land in the U.S. and it's above and
beyond sort of the you know the to

do goodness of that there's an interesting
hypothesis because Apple at least

6 times that they don't make money there's
a reason why you pay a 1000 dollars for

their phone and 60 dollars for somebody
for Google's because Apple makes money on

the phone they don't make money brokering
your data so I just leave it that that but

this is you know these are important
topics they're not unsolvable topics but

they are important for us to all
be thinking about and and acting.

I think you find can.

C OK Yes OK great I'm going
to build upon Nancy and

Jason and Dennis have said and those
are great points that you're making so

I'm going to dive a little little bit
into that the space that I'm going to be

looking specifically at is how
do we consider all of this.

Accessibility and inclusion and ethics and

this is one of those conversations
that we've been having for years yet

we're still standing at that
crossroads of where disability and

ethics and technology really intersect and
still trying to navigate and

figure out where what are the next
steps it goes beyond beneficence and

justice right Tanami it really does
get into the specifics of what

ya'll have been discussing as to you know
who really does drive the driverless car

who's in charge of that who's
information is being collected and

how is it being used and what does the
work force look like is there a place for

people with disabilities and
true inclusion in the workplace as we

move forward so
thinking all of those things through.

Back in 2003 I did a workshop and
it's been repeated a few times so

that this has been one of those issues
that we've been wrestling with for for

a long time when it looks at
ethics disability technology and

actually referred to this it was the click
to continue piece was the name of the talk

and the point was what information are we
giving away what information what's

the exchange when it comes to if you have
a disability and you actually need that or

that piece of software in order to live
more independently or to do your job or

to navigate your community what
information are you giving also

a lot of those and we've talked with folks
about that the language that's used in

those terms of service it's exclusionary
language it is not written at

a 3rd grade level or 2nd grade level it's
often written at a much higher level and

late legally and so people don't
actually know what they're giving away.

When it comes to information so that's
one of the things that we've been kind of

struggling with are thinking about in
the space that we're in we're also finding

some big gaps when it comes to policy to
practice whether it's looking at Autonomy

vehicles or Autonomy technology and
seeing you know here's

what 5 o 8 says which is the law the
Rehab Act even though done specifically

mentioned some of the technologies when
we're looking at urban technologies

it actually does cover that it's important
to make sure that their excessive will and

that everybody is able to access
that wicked 2.0 and 2 point one.

There are web accessibility guidelines
that actually take that conversation even

further and I would say ethically and
this is me and we're going to push I feel

like we have to continue to push the
conversation is that we should be writing

to those and we should be thinking about
inclusive design every time we design

whether it's Fema sitting at the table
looking at their policies and struggling

with the ethics of as we redesign and
rebuild Puerto Rico how excessive well

does it need to be made I would argue that
it needs to be completely accessible and

we have to incorporate universal design
principles in that and so thinking about

all of that this week on Monday I was
actually doing a keynote at a conference

and there was a representative there from
the President's Council on intellectual

development on disability and it's a
person with intellectual disabilities and

we were talking I was talking about some
of this and I was talking about the ethics

and he said I'm afraid you know those
are actually the terms he was using

because we have a history of being
excluded and so how do we make sure that

we are included and if we don't help right
the policies are help right and design

in the story is bad for us and so thinking
about how does that how does that.

Layer on to some of what you're saying
Nancy about the way data is being used and

how do we collect it when it goes dentist
to what you're saying about what data is

actually being even collected with
the lights on the sensors around us and

if we're not part of that conversation
what does that look like there's also

a history of layering on not having
the design process from the very beginning

including folks with disabilities or you
know different abilities what have you so

there are easy solutions that you
know could be easily overcome

we're still seeing buildings I was
doing some work up in Canada and

there's this beautiful building yet
the excess of the entrance and

it's a building that's only 2 years old
the accessible entrance was still through

the back door and ethically I have
a truck I have trouble with that

we shouldn't have anybody going
through the back door and so

there are even simple things when it
comes to design yes it can be beautiful

on multiple levels and so ethically
should we be designing for exclusion or

should we design for
inclusion elevators we know a lot

about how we could make elevators more
accessible using our voice using sensors

and the number of things some of what
you're talking about Dennis when it comes

to intuitive shopping or what have you I
bet if I'm stand in front of an elevator

you could probably intuit that I want to
that to go somewhere on that elevator and

then figuring out maybe perhaps
where we want to go and

thinking about other things when it
comes to just in general rebuilding.

The World Health Organization
has jumped in on this and

they've actually in the midst actually
were there's an article that's going to be

coming out soon specifically about ethics
and widespread global exclusion when it

comes to technology and it's frustrating
to see that still happening but

I do believe that we here at Georgia Tech
and a lot of our colleagues that are in

the industry are dancing in that
space where we can actually

make a big difference Tim Cook I was
glad to hear you bring him up and.

When he was speaking at Auburn University
in 2013 he actually said people with

disabilities have been left in the shadows
of mainstream technology development he

saw it as an ethical dilemma and he said
we're going to design for inclusion and

one of the great things is whenever you
buy your cell phone and I buy my cell

phone I can use it the same day you use
it even though I use a screen reader and

in the past I would have had to download
something or upload something or

any number of things or sign my rights
away which is which is good to know so

the main idea there and
we're seeing that inclusive design

has served Apple Well Google nothing

a big fan of Google but you still have to
download and know how to navigate that and

we find that it's not intuitive How do
you download the successful features and

so there should be something to
consider there when it comes to ethics

John Sanford and I at the very
beginning of the new year had the.

Great opportunity to meet with some of our
colleagues at Microsoft and Amazon and

we got to meet Microsoft's one of
their very 1st employees that they've

hired that specifically is focused
on disability technology and

ethics that's that's her space
that's what she's saying in and

of the questions that she is bringing
up is we have to question everything

things as simple as you
know now with word you can.

You can change you can scale
the understanding of the speech or you

can say you can actually create a range
of readability So the same text could be

written at a college level but I could
also scale it down to a 2nd grade level.

Problem is they're collecting a lot
of data on that they know who's doing

that what level they're doing that at and
that's a problem and so

she said at the table saying does
an employer need to know does you

know a teacher would might need to know
what level the student's reading at but

maybe the employer does not need to know
that you know so thinking ethically about

if you have a print related disability
what does that really look like they're

doing the same thing with Powerpoint
is it ethical that we still allow

the development of non excessive will
power points when we could actually design

every powerpoint to be accessible for
everybody what about video is should it

be somewhat accurate if you're going to do
the caption on You Tube which is not what

the law says it doesn't say you know 32
percent accurate or should it be required

to be 100 percent accurate as Dr Ballenger
insists upon which I agree with also

thinking about gaming and other areas and
how do we make sure that we're

thinking inclusion from the care
the console all the way to the avatars and

thinking what would it look like for my
avatar in my game for tonight which I've

been playing with my son to actually
use a wheelchair is that OK it should

be OK right so I think inclusion and
this all does tie right back to ethics and

what are ethics and just like you were
saying Mansi what are our values so

thinking about all of that with Amazon
one of the things that we've been we

were talking about and considering as
maybe it's about gradation privacy

when you actually say yes you
click to continue Yes How

long are you going to keep the data what
are you going to do with the data where

does that data live in and how is it going
to be utilized You know in the long run

and making sure that we have a solution
there when it comes to that so there's

also very specific issues when it comes to
safety and some of the folks that John.

With there actively in dialog
about should Alexa be able

to unlock your door now here's the deal
in Georgia right now there are a bunch of

folks who cannot unlock their door to
their home yet they live in a home but

the reason why is because they can't
physically lock it Alexa could

actually help you lock the door you can
use your voice to lock the door but

you can't use your voice to
unlock the door and some cases so

wrestling with that and thinking about
safety even in a very tangible way so

making sure that we're thinking about all
of those things so as I'm concluding.

Courage to think about are you
employing an ethical framework

throughout your design process what does
that really look like have you really

wrestled with some of these things if
you want to have that dialogue I'm

happy to hang in that space and
I'm sure John would be too.

Is it ethical to design knowing
you're going to exclude that's one of

the questions that I think we've got
to keep thinking about as we rebuild in

areas that have been completely
devastated should we be building with

government dollars if we're going to
exclude as we have factories that we've

created what would it look like to build
in the fact of a person with a disability

could also work alongside automation and
how do we scale that and

we can do that you know so thinking
about all of that are using you X.

accessibility testing procedures
are you employ in the news in folks

with disabilities to help from ideation to
deployment and thinking about all of those

things and how are you staying up to date
on what the cutting edge is when it comes

to ethics and also to technology and
how those intersect we created a massive

open online course we have 10831
folks that participated from

176 countries one of
the biggest areas that people

took and really focused on and
commented on had to do with ethics and.

Do with universal design and these are
issues that are not just being discussed

in this room and within our college but

what does it look like across the world so
I believe we're collectively brilliant I

really do believe that's not fake you
know kind of nice thing to say and

I do believe that we can create
truly inclusive environments for

everybody whether it's in the home so
people can live in communities of their

choice whether it's in the workplace and
there are a lot of folks that are you know

I think continuing to push that
conversation forward as we move everybody

out of the shadows as Tim Cook would have
said and definitely into the light so.

Thank you for inviting me.

So.

I'm not feeling welcomed them.

Here's.

My thing and you can.

Be.

Justified.

For.

More.

Weird words for your writing here are.

So weird.

And.

You're in this class and it's so
and I actually think it's

a good story I must dance
who is with the parents.

Today.

And that's the time but the rest of.

It's not there hopefully right.

Here Yes I mean it's true it's
actually what I said yes you're right

absolutely and a lot of times the values
of our society and the ethics they

absolutely have had to be prescribed and
described in detail within the law and

sometimes it still misses John and I have
talked quite a bit about John Sanford and

I've talked quite a bit
about how the A.B.A.

is not when people tell me their idiot
complaining like you know that's not even

almost where we need to be we have
got to be far beyond that and

so Jason that you want to have anything
Gary Fink has is being alluded to that's

a long conversation but I was I would
least say the law helps to set.

Of least in some context a minimum
we should not go below in

terms of design for these technologies but
I think what we need to be doing in ethics

is in part in reviewing the law and see
where it needs to be revised and where.

Failing because a certainly and you it's
much easier of course to see historically

but you can certainly see where the law
fails to pick up in terms of protecting

different groups or
individuals rights making sure that for

instance as Nancy was alluding to
whether we have meaningful employment

the law as you know give us a certain
kinds of structure in society but

we need ethics to continue to revise and
review those laws over time and as you're

alluding to it is not as simple process it
is messy in part because we do carry with

us different ethical frameworks different
values that in part is what requires us to

have a need for conversation in review
over time to see what our principles

are a given time what our values are to
given time and whether they're accurately

and faithfully being reflected in
our laws let me let me add to that.

This is why I think I can get away with
saying I'm not an ethicist because

I'd like to think I'm
an ethical person but

parsing all this I mean that those are
deep philosophical humanistic topics right

I think the relationship between ethics
and law is at least tractable but

you know at some point you come down
to the question of right and wrong

right which is a much harder question
although it seems more obvious right.

When I was thinking about being
provocative I was thinking about you know

and I was talking to another fact a person
last night about this this book and

this question and I think in this
terms of this question about.

Privacy for
here is all of those kind of things

it's it would be risky and
inappropriate for

people of our generation to have
assumptions about what future generations

are going to think about this and I did
none of undergrads in the room to ask for

a survey but
I'm actually wondering I mean well OK yeah

I mean how much do you
worry about data privacy.

See I mean because you know people that
you know younger people are sharing this

stuff all the time right on you know and
I think you assume there's boundaries

about what you'll share and what you
want but there's clearly that boundary

I mean I don't put anything on
social media about myself and many

people you know let it all hang out there
and that's just part of how they achieve.

Well you know value and popularity so
what do you what do you can we ask the.

Please.

Do you do you have this
background sense that you're

being observed all the time and are you
open and if you do you are you OK with.

I think.

So again I'm just I'm so I'm going along
but I raise that because I don't think we

can apply early 20th century values and
principles to 22nd century

on circumstances it will be a whole new
ballgame and I'm not sure how to go.

There are things one.

Cat would you know when you're 15
years old what the implications maybe

of something that you're sharing and
how that could come back to haunt you

when you're 40 years old or
whatever age you know so so there's this.

There's this I think societal obligation
to try and understand the risk involved

and to be able to to train in teach young
people and everyone about those risks so

that's one part of it the other thing
we can't we can't really last there but

Laos actually cannot anticipate in
keep up with how fast the information

surveillance possibilities have have been
how fast that they have occurred and

been developed that they the law
moves in a very slow process for

good reason because when it's finally
gets into place it is the law but

we can't we can't really rely
on the law in in many ways to

resolve some of these issues without going
back to really what you're saying is you

say I I think of myself as an ethical
person in that there are rights and

wrongs in our There are universal rights
and wrongs That's why I sort of resorted

to thinking about the United Nations
universal human rights

of humans because can we have something
fundamental that begins to guide this and

then use that as the limits to try and
about what's going forward so.

But do you have a yeah.

Right.

Problem.

Yeah that's an interesting observation
one of things I didn't talk about and

I'm sure Shoshana does in her
book as well is the fact that

data became Sri package with other
parts of partially its own data and

it creates a much fuller picture of who
you are than you would have ever predicted

from agreeing to have this data
collected on you by this one chuck so

that there really larger issues associated
with that as well that aren't in no way

being resolved at the moment so so
that's the some other part well yeah but

I was just going to I was just to say I'm
Dennis I think that's a very interesting

concept and I'm going to think more about
it about whether or not we should be.

You know defining what it is in the future
I would agree on some level but

I really do believe that we keep
repeating the past errors and

huge ways of mistakes specifically
with marginalized communities and

I think until we have
truly equal rights and

true leadership that we've got to keep
pushing and hoping to find shape so

that people understand what the stakes
are of the past and all of that.

The exam law and all.

The other comments questions from.

The audience.

Well hopefully we've given people
something to think about it's like

as we're also I think Carol in support of
the song in Jason in terms of thinking

about this but did a sigh and great
that we should be thinking about this.

And and hopefully it's a beginning
dialogue for the college and

for our colleagues in other parts
of the Institute too to be pursuing

these key questions as we
advance in our nation and

other forms of technology thank
you very much for coming.